June 26, 2025 • 51 mins
📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube
Discover the transformative power of sunlight on your health with Sarah Kleiner, a leading expert in circadian rhythms and quantum biology. In this eye-opening episode, Sarah reveals how proper light exposure can boost metabolism, regulate hormones, and enhance overall well-being. Learn why indoor living may be sabotaging your health goals and how to harness the sun's energy for optimal vitality. From debunking common sun myths to exploring the science behind UV light benefits, this conversation offers practical tips for integrating sunlight into your daily routine. Whether you're battling weight issues, struggling with energy levels, or simply seeking natural ways to improve your health, Sarah's insights will revolutionize your approach to wellness. Don't miss this illuminating discussion on the often-overlooked connection between light and health!
5 Key Takeaways
1. Get morning sunlight exposure consistently, ideally within an hour of waking. This helps regulate your circadian rhythm and metabolism.
2. Aim for 20 minutes of outdoor light during the UVA window after sunrise to support appetite regulation and fat burning.
3. Use a wide-brimmed hat and protective eyewear when exposed to intense glare from water, snow, or sand to prevent retinal damage.
4. Download the My Circadian app to track optimal sun exposure times and measure light levels throughout the day.
5. Dim lights and use blue-blocking glasses 3 hours before bed, aiming for under 10 lux in your evening environment to support melatonin production.
Memorable Quotes
"Light really gives the body instructions to do everything we need it to do. We want the right type of light at the right times, and then enough darkness at the right times."
"If your days are too dim and your nights are too bright, that alone slows down the metabolism. You can go on a very restrictive diet, eat clean, try to do all the things, yet live the way that everyone lives, and still struggle."
"I'm not interested in having conversations where I tell people exactly what to do. I want to have thoughtful dialogue and connect with people. The worst teachers think the healing was all because of them. The best teachers remind you that the healing was yours all along."
Connect with Sarah
Website - https://www.sarahkleinerwellness.com
Courses - https://www.sarahkleinerwellness.com/courses (code PODCAST for 10% off any course!)
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sarahkleinerwellness
Podcast - https://www.sarahkleinerwellness.com/podcast
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd1xxofTziySu0F9oG7G67g
Free ebooks: https://www.sarahkleinerwellness.com/all-free-resources
Resources Mentioned
My Circadian App - https://mycircadianapp.com/
Ra Optics Blue Sync (sunglasses) - https://raoptics.com/pages/bluesync
QBC Resources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meredith Oke (05:01):
Sarah Kleiner, welcome back. Good to see you.
Sarah Kleiner (05:05):
Good to see you. As always. Thank you for having
me.
Meredith Oke (05:09):
I love having you. And I'm excited because today
we're going to talk about sunlight and all the
ways that it's amazing for us. But first I wanted
to start. So I did an interview earlier this week
with the founders husband and wife who founded
Boncharge. And because they're in Australia, the
(05:32):
interview is at like 8pm so when I was having
dinner with the family, I made all my children
come up with questions for the Bontarsh people.
And my daughter Twyla, who's 11, she was like,
ask, ask him how the orange glasses get orange.
So I did, and it was like a really fun answer
(05:52):
that I'm like, I didn't actually know that. So I
said, twyla, that was a really good question.
Thanks. She's like, no problem. When's your next
podcast? I'm like, it's with my friend Sarah
Kleiner. And she's like, oh, does she do. I said,
she's a health coach. She's like, okay, you
should ask her why she became a health coach. And
I was like, oh, gosh, okay. And then she pauses
(06:15):
and she goes, does she have any siblings? I said,
yeah, she has a sister. She said, two. Two
sisters. Okay. She goes, you should ask her what
they think of all this quantum biology stuff. I
love that.
Sarah Kleiner (06:35):
I should have her over to help me questions for
my guests.
Meredith Oke (06:40):
She's available.
Sarah Kleiner (06:43):
Amazing summer internship.
Meredith Oke (06:48):
So anyway, I feel like that's actually fun. Like,
what, what do your sisters think of all this?
Because I know it's, it's, you know. Yeah, it's
like everyone has people in their family who are
like, what are you talking about?
Sarah Kleiner (07:02):
Yeah, I'm the black sheep of the family.
Absolutely. Yeah. We just say that we are very. I
mean, I love my sisters very, very dearly. And
we're close. We talk almost every day, really,
but we don't talk about health because we have a
lot of disagreements on that topic. And yeah,
(07:27):
it's, it can be a little bit touchy that we
definitely choose to raise our children
differently than one another and we choose to
live our lives differently. And yeah, and it's,
it's a touchy situation. There's definitely
differences in our health. I will say that
(07:48):
without kind of. I don't know, I love them so
much, you know, so I never want to talk badly
about my own family, but I. It's hard to watch my
sisters who are younger than me. I'm the oldest
it's hard to watch them begin to really struggle
with their health. We're in our 40s. I just
turned 46 yesterday.
Meredith Oke (08:07):
And happy birthday.
Sarah Kleiner (08:09):
Thank you. They're younger than me, and so I. I
have a hard time, like, biting my tongue and not
saying stuff because. Because I'm like, that is.
That problem you're dealing with is completely
preventable through sunlight exposure, diet,
lifestyle changes. But they kind of. I think
they've seen me go through so many different ways
(08:33):
of looking at health and trying on so many
different hats over the years. And it's been.
Since we were, like, children, you know, I was
always the one getting them to dance to Richard
Simmons sweating to the oldies, you know, like.
Meredith Oke (08:50):
They would.
Sarah Kleiner (08:51):
Come along on my wild ideas. They're like, okay.
And then after a while, they're like, she's
insane. We're not doing this anymore. So I get
it. I understand why they don't want to, like,
listen. But. Yeah, that's kind of that story.
Meredith Oke (09:08):
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah. And my. My.
I have a brother. He's like, 100 uninterested in
any of this. He's like, but, yeah, you can. We
can still have a relationship and do all the
things and. And it's fun. You know, it's
interesting. The eye of the beholder, right?
Because when it. When it's your sister and you're
(09:28):
like, oh, God, what is she into now? But, you
know, as. As a friend, as a colleague, I see it
as, you know, the evolution of your education,
trying all of these different things, and your
spiritual development and your, you know, growth
as a practitioner is through the experiential
(09:50):
learning that you had by trying things out since
you were a child.
Sarah Kleiner (09:54):
You learn a lot about what doesn't work. You
know, you really do. And that's a lot of. On
social media right now. I just did a post about
nutrition. Half truths. Because it seems as
though if you really talk an authoritative tone
and you talk down to people, even if what you're
saying is not true or there's maybe a bit of
(10:16):
truth to it, that people really love that and
they really will. You'll grow fast. You'll go
viral. You'll get all the clicks and the likes,
and I can't operate that way, number one. But
number two, it's really become the. The lay of
the land, unfortunately. And it's hurting people.
It is really hurting, hurting people. I sit
(10:37):
across from people on zoom on a very regular
basis that they have bought in, like, really 100,
bought into some of these really polarizing
people online. And I did the same thing. Like I
said, I've learned a lot about what doesn't work,
and it's. It's not good what happens to people on
the other end. You know, I wish that people that
(11:00):
have made these online Personas could see the
things that I see. Maybe they do. Maybe they do.
I don't know. Maybe they get the emails and the.
The messages from people, or maybe they've chosen
to. To look a blind eye, you know, draw a blind
eye towards it. I don't know. But it's wild out
there.
Meredith Oke (11:20):
Yeah, it is. And you're right. I mean, there's
something about someone just speaking
authoritatively and like, maybe. Maybe making you
feel, like, a little bit stupid. And you're just
like, what? Tell me more. And having it be on a
screen. There's like, something about your
professional views, like an authoritative
(11:43):
presence, camera work and good editing and.
Sarah Kleiner (11:48):
Yeah, that's how it works, you guys. It's called
the mainstream media that you've rejected.
Meredith Oke (11:54):
Yes, but that's the thing. We were trained on it.
So we're like, I'm gonna reject those people on
cnn, but like, this guy on Instagram can feed me
any nonsense. It's fine.
Sarah Kleiner (12:08):
I'm just not interested in having con. I want to
have thoughtful dialogue with people. I want to
connect with people and have a meaningful
conversation. I really do. I don't want to tell
people exactly what to do because I don't know
exactly what someone should do. I know some great
foundations that I think everyone should have in
(12:29):
place, but there's so much nuance to. In. To the
individual person, and it does a big disservice
when we make people think that they can't survive
without us. You know, I think a post I did
recently that said something like, the. The worst
(12:49):
teachers are the ones that think that the healing
was all because of them, you know, that you
couldn't do it without them. And the best
teachers are the ones who remind you that the
healing was yours all along, you know? Yeah.
Meredith Oke (13:05):
Yes. And to empower ourselves to. To remember
that. And while we have help along the way and
support along the way and learn from mentors and
practitioners, it's inner work. And so you
mentioned foundational pieces that are to have in
(13:25):
place. And then beyond that, there's lots of
nuance. So one of those foundational pieces is
for sure, the sun and sunlight. And I just want
to do a deep dive into that. We have a lot of new
listeners and even people who've been around for
a while. It's like, I think it's really worth
just going through some of the key ways that we
(13:50):
benefit from not cutting ourselves off from what
is essentially the source of light, of life. And,
you know, we talk about obviously safe and
sensible ways to do that. But let's just start
with why we need the sun.
Sarah Kleiner (14:09):
Well, light really gives the body instructions to
do everything we need it to do. That's a basic.
We want the right type of light at the right
times, and then the right, you know, enough
darkness and darkness period at the right times.
This clock in our brain called the
superchiasmatic nucleus, it really is giving
(14:30):
instructions to everything in your body. And so
were meant to run on what's called a circadian
rhythm. Now, this is being studied in big pharma.
You know, it has been for a long time. I know
you've had Dr. See, hold on here. And he and I
talked about the same thing of this whole thing
of medicine studying the circadian timing of
(14:54):
medication, how certain times of day it's going
to work better. Certain times of day, there's a
chance for more toxicity. Our body is the same
thing. Our gut runs on this rhythm. You know,
certain times of the day we have more digestive
function, more stomach acid, more enzymatic
function. Certain times of the day, hormones are
meant to start going in a. In a symphony run on a
(15:19):
circadian rhythm. Again, this should be signaled
by light and darkness. And so if we're missing
these crucial elements, and as a fa, it's a
foundation, our metabolism's not going to work
properly, our gut's not going to work properly,
our brain's not going to work properly. The, the
information on circadian health and mental health
(15:41):
is extensive. You know, all the dysfunction, all
the things that everyone talks about, gut health,
mental health and hormone health, those are the
big hot topics in the holistic wellness and
alternative wellness space. That's a foundation,
you know, for any of these things to work. And I
think that people are so quick to look at what
(16:05):
supplement can I take and what diet can I do? And
not that those things don't have a time and a
place, but if the foundation is weak, as in your
circadian rhythms aren't dialed in, good luck,
you know, good luck with those things working as
effectively as they could or should.
Meredith Oke (16:24):
Right? And I think that's the piece that so many
people are still missing. It's like, oh, yeah, I
guess I feel better when I go outside. But it's
like, you wouldn't go a day without Drinking
water. Right. Like, you wouldn't go an extended
period of time without eating real food. And yet
we still sort of. I don't think it's truly
(16:48):
landed. I know for a lot of people listening to
this podcast, it has. But for all your friends
and neighbors and family. Right. Like, it hasn't
truly landed. Like, we are an extension of this
light source and without it, we can't. Like,
(17:09):
everything else is a band aid.
Sarah Kleiner (17:11):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We can keep trying to push
things together and make things work, but if you
don't have the foundation, like I said, good
luck. It's going to be that much more difficult
cold. So metabolism is a big one. You know, I
always. I always say I kind of trick people to
come into my deeper work through talking about
(17:34):
weight loss, because, yeah, you can use this to
improve your metabolism. I have, you know, I've
struggled with my weight my entire life. Has lost
£100, three times. Just really a lot of struggles
with my metabolic health. Even on a really quote
unquote clean diet. My fasting blood sugar was
(17:57):
still high. It was still 90s low 100s, a lot of
days. And until I added these elements of light.
And it's very simple. People think it has to be
the way that we're taught a specific protocol and
getting X amount of minutes. And it doesn't have
(18:17):
to be perfect, but you do have to provide the
brain with the right signals for the metabolism
to function optimally. And what the research
clearly shows us is that if your days, your
mornings are too dim and your nights are too
bright, then that alone slows down the
metabolism. So you can again go on a very
(18:40):
restrictive diet. Eat clean, try to do all the
things, yet live the way that everyone lives,
which is waking up in the morning, looking at the
phone, turning on lights indoors and indoors.
Your lux, which is a measure of brightness, is
going to max out typically around 500, and that's
very, very bright. I would say the lux in my
(19:02):
house when I've measured it, is like 30, because
we don't do a bunch of overhead lights. When you
go outdoors, even on a cloudy, overcast day, the
lux can get up to like 10,000. And the brain
needs a minimum of about a thousand. When you
look at all the data and the research together,
it needs about a minimum of a thousand. You know,
(19:23):
up to 10,000 in that morning window. As well as
the signals from sunlight, we get the red, the
infrared, that's important for mitochondria, we
get UV light, that's important for metabolism,
for fat burning. We get all of that from simply
stepping outside during those, those windows of
(19:43):
time. It's such a, it's such a huge boost for the
metabolism and the mitochondria, which is
essentially the body's energy management system.
If those don't work, then again, good luck. But
our indoor living, our modern life prevents us
from getting those signals. There's no red and
infrared indoors. There's no UV light indoors
(20:05):
because we have energy efficient homes and we've
been taught that UV light is harmful. So we block
it all out so that alone can slow down your
metabolism. And that has been studied over and
over again. So you can fact check.
Meredith Oke (20:21):
This is crazy. I mean, this is crazy. Like, if I,
you know, I was talking to my college roommate a
few months ago and she's like, oh, I put on
weight, you know, I didn't change anything. It
was, you know, it's hormonal. And so she, you
know, we just like revert back to what we learned
when we were paying attention, even if it was 10
years ago, 20 years ago, whatever. So she's like,
(20:42):
I got, I gotta get a peloton and like start, you
know, skipping lunch or something. And the idea
that, that her, you know, her hormones and her
metabolism is all, you know, all is connected
are, could be affected by the light that she's
getting. Like she was, you know, like, it just
(21:04):
seemed insane. So tell us like a little more
about, about how light controls our metabolism.
Right. Like this is for, I know this is like,
this is for my college roommate Julie. That's who
this question is for.
Sarah Kleiner (21:23):
Well, there's a lot of elements to light that
signal the metabolism. I kind of just jumbled
them all in there. But to break it down, simply
sunrise is when we get that first little hit of
blue that tells the brain let's, you know, turn
off melatonin, start gradually making cortisol.
And if you, if you go online, there's this whole
(21:47):
cortisol face. Cortisol this, cortisol that.
Cortisol is the root of all evil for weight gain.
And the reason you're gaining weight is your
cortisol. And it's like, again, like, it's a
partial truth. We are meant to have cortisol rise
in the morning and that's with that timing of the
blue light that's from outdoors. So at sunrise we
get this beautiful red and infrared that speaks
(22:11):
directly to mitochondria, that allows us to make
this metabolic water, that allows us to expand
the cellular water in the body, which is like a
battery of Energy. So you think about, we're
supporting mitochondria, which, as I mentioned,
is the body's energy management system. By
getting out there at sunrise, getting that hit of
blue light. It's a very little bit of blue light
(22:32):
that comes on the horizon at sunrise. And it's
gradual to make cortisol in this natural, gradual
way. Now, I mentioned Lux. There's a difference
between Lux and Kelvin. I know this can confuse
people. There's a lux meter in my app, my
circadian app, that we'll talk about later on in
the episode, I'm sure. But indoors, the lux is
(22:53):
way too low, as I mentioned, maybe 500 maximum.
Most places it's going to be much dimmer than
that. So you've got the element of Lux being too
dim, but then you have the Kelvin being way too
high. So Kelvin is a, is another measurement of
light. And Kelvin in our indoor modern lighting
bulbs are like 5700, 6000. Your, your iPhone
(23:16):
screen or your phone screen is usually 5700 or
6000. So that is enough blue light, enough
brightness, again, not brightness, but enough
blue light really. And intensity. Kelvin is like
intensity of that light. Intensity also signals
the brain and says, hey, it's the middle of the
day. It's June. It's in the middle of the day.
Even though it might be December at like 7am It's
(23:41):
a signal to that clock in the brain that is
activated by blue light. Says, you got to hurry
up and make more cortisol because we've, we've
slept in and now you've got to hurry up and make
more. So we get a natural rise of cortisol, we
get metabolic support, mitochondrial support from
sunrise, we get a metabolic confusion, or as
(24:03):
ChatGPT would call it, metabolic chaos. Everyone
sees in Chat GPT these days, everyone's got
metabolic chaos. I know you use chat GPT for your
post. Hormone chaos. Anywho, your phone is giving
(24:24):
you metabolic chaos. Hormone chaos. Sunlight is
this beautiful symphony of light that, that gives
your body the right signals. And so that's the,
that's the first window of light that you really
want to get out there for. Then we have UV light,
which, as I mentioned, has really been demonized.
But UV light, especially in the eyes and then on
(24:46):
the skin, there's some benefits as well. But it's
eye and skin. I've got the papers on that in my
leptin master plan course. It tells the brain to
make something called Alpha msh, which is kind of
like fat burning, right? So it's it boosts your
metabolism in, in a very non scientific
explanation. Explanation. It's boosting your
(25:07):
metabolism, boosting fat burning and it regulates
your appetite. So I have a lot of people that
come to me that they have no appetite in the
morning. They're just like, oh guess what? That's
probably too much cortisol from what did I just
mention before? The phone screen and the lights
part of it, stress, the coffee, just getting this
(25:28):
huge spike and of course you're not hungry. And
so the way I have people to start regulating
their appetite is sunrise light because that's
going to start those metabolic clocks spinning
appropriately. But then you've got UV light where
you get production of serotonin, dopamine, alpha
msh and that can help to regulate the appetite.
(25:50):
So if you're someone who's never been hungry in
the morning, I'm like, don't force feed yourself.
Maybe have like a little something, little
protein, get it started. But don't make yourself
sick. But go outside during that UVA window when
UVA first begins to come online. That's right
after sunrise, depending on where you are. That's
why I put that in my app, my circadian app, so
(26:11):
you can understand, oh, it's 45 minutes after
sunrise. It's in the app. It'll tell you try to
get out there at the beginning of that and if you
can spend 20 minutes out there, that can do
wonders for your appetite and your metabolism.
Plus you get the lux, you get that appropriate
amount of lux and brightness. So for metabolic
(26:31):
benefits that's really, and I'm, there's more
elements to it. Right? We could probably have a
six hour long podcast about all of this, but this
is a dumbed down yes, we.
Meredith Oke (26:43):
Just, we want the, we just want the essentials.
Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I like to give
enough information for people to, to be able to
decide to take action. Right. And then if you, if
it's important to you to understand every little
minutia of the science there, by all means go
(27:04):
study it. But I think for most people it's like
especially it's like I need to know enough to,
for this to make sense cognitively. Like my, my
intellect needs enough information to be able to
say, okay, that is a logical good choice. And
we're also, when it comes to the sun, we also are
(27:25):
having to counterbalance like 20 years worth of
propaganda saying that the sun is going to kill
us and we should never go, we should be covered
up everywhere every time we go outside. So.
Sarah Kleiner (27:41):
We also get Nitric oxide, which is, you know,
I've been talking a lot about perimenopause
because I'm in the thick of it myself. You know,
I'm at that age. But I feel like this stuff helps
so, so much. And one thing that can happen to a
woman as she goes towards menopause is nitric
oxide levels go way down. Now this is also true
(28:01):
in people with cardiovascular issues. And one of
the things that UV light does, and if you can get
that morning uva, like get that process started
in the morning, is increase your, your body's
nitric oxide production. So that's going to
improve certain circulation again, another
metabolic boost, beta endorphin. So a lot of
people start to do this stuff and they're like, I
(28:23):
crave it, I need it. That's how I, that's how I
am now. But your body makes beta endorphins in
the morning and it's such a great. And dopamine,
it's so many wonderful things. Such a great way
to start your day rather than scrolling. And
coffee.
Meredith Oke (28:43):
Yeah. And just on the coffee, would your guidance
be to push it later for those of us who still
like to have our coffee?
Sarah Kleiner (28:54):
I do. I, I like people to push it a bit later.
You know, I'll do good structured mineral water,
some hydrogen water. When I first wake up, walk
around the backyard grounding with my dog. She
always, she's like the reason, okay, I gotta go
outside and walk around because my dog just has
(29:15):
to go out. So grounding water. Then I go inside
and eat something, then I'll have some coffee. I
went a couple of years without coffee and yeah,
it improved my hrv, it improved my sleep,
probably was supportive to thyroid and adrenals,
(29:35):
help me probably get pregnant, stay pregnant and,
you know. But then my son was born, life got
crazy and I just missed my coffee. So I have
coffee, but I always have sunlight, some
grounding, some hydration, some breakfast, then
I'll have some coffee. And then I cut myself off
by 9 o' clock. I just don't do it after 9am
(29:59):
because it can be a circadian disruptor for sure.
Right.
Meredith Oke (30:05):
Because it's giving that cortisol spike when
you're perhaps not meant to be having it. Yeah,
got it. Okay, then let's talk about sunrise for a
little bit. So I know, I know for me there are
certain times of years, certain times of the year
where I am up at sunrise, but there are also
(30:26):
certain times of the year where sunrise is so
early that I am fast asleep at Sunrise. So I
would say it's probably like an hour later that I
wake up and go outside. Am I still getting
benefits? And for, for people who, you know, for
whatever scheduling reasons are not up at
sunrise, is it just like go outside and get the
morning light? Whatever time it is, is that still
(30:48):
helping?
Sarah Kleiner (30:49):
I've learned about just coaching and teaching and
understanding this whole thing is it doesn't have
to to be perfect, it just has to be consistent.
You know, just start to develop some consistency.
And yeah, it's in the summer and I have people
that live way up in Canada and Sweden and places
where the sun doesn't even set in the summer,
(31:10):
which can be a whole other conversation. I feel
like I need to do a video for my YouTube channel
because I keep getting so many people with these
questions and I have a whole module about it in
my sunwise course and in my leptin. Like I have
modules behind my, in my courses that go into
this and give you tons of strategies and
protocols. But what I've kind of come to the
(31:32):
conclusion of after working with so many people
and so many people in my community is that number
one, it's consistency over perfection. I think in
the summertime it's really just more important to
have a consistent wake time and a consistent
sleep time. And we typically, unless someone's
dealing with a chronic illness, they're really
(31:52):
trying to heal from something, we can get away
with a little bit less sleep in the summer. Then
we need more in the winter. Like summer is
vitamin D season. We're supposed to be soaking it
up. We're supposed to have longer days, make a
little bit more cortisol. Winter, we're supposed
to be sleeping more, really pumping out that
melatonin, pumping in repair, autophagy, all that
(32:14):
really supposed to be in repair mode in the
winter. That's a whole other conversation because
most people live like it's summer year round. But
I think that in the summertime, wake times, if
you can get a little bit of sunrise in there, I
mean just before UV light hits, it's going to be
a little bit of a different signal than the uv.
(32:36):
So yeah, it's just really going to depend on
where you live. I live in Georgia, so the latest
our sunrise really comes up. I think it's like
6:30. That's doable. Yeah, but if it was 5:30,
girl, I'd be sleeping.
Meredith Oke (32:52):
Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. It's 5:30
and I'm like, I'm not.
Sarah Kleiner (32:56):
Gonna have a five.
Meredith Oke (32:57):
Yeah. 6:15 is my, is my earliest. And I've tried,
I've tried forcing myself to get up because I'm
like, I have to see the sunrise. That's the
thing. And I'm really tired all day, even with
the sunrise because I just wasn't ready to get
up. So yeah, I'm like, okay, so in this, in
those. When the sun rises at 5:15.
Sarah Kleiner (33:19):
I know Dr. Sarah, she's flying in here tomorrow.
She's gonna be staying with me for like a month
tomorrow. She, she doesn't have children. She
does live in the uk and I know she gets up for
the sunrise there, which is like four in the
morning in the summer. But I can't do that.
(33:41):
Wouldn't do that probably. Even if I lived in the
UK, I probably would still be like 6:30 gal.
Meredith Oke (33:48):
Yeah, no, that's okay. Good. I'm glad we had this
chat and I wanted to have it because I, I know
that when you're first learning something,
everyone wants to like do it perfectly perfect
and perfect. You know, we develop all these
purity tests and everything. And it's like, you
(34:09):
know, close enough is good enough. And
consistency, consistency is the key. Absolutely.
Sarah Kleiner (34:16):
My, my group members are so good now. They, they
repeat it to me. They're like consistency over
perfection. And I think I say that in a lot of my
courses. At the end of each lesson, I really want
to drill that into people because we can't be
perfect. We just literally cannot be perfect. We
can be consistent though, to the best of our
(34:36):
ability. And when our head hits the pillow at
night, we know we did our best. We can do that.
But life's gonna happen sometimes. It really is.
And so you just. Consistency is gonna go a long
way. And remember that for most of your life you
didn't have access to this information. You
(34:56):
weren't implementing it. And now here we are. So
let's just do our best.
Meredith Oke (35:03):
Yep. And we will. So, yeah, it's consistent sun,
not perfect sun. So what do you hear from people?
Like, what are some of the biggest sun myths that
you'd like to, that you'd like to burst? And then
I have some other stuff I want to ask you.
Sarah Kleiner (35:18):
More is better. Avoiding seed oils will give you
the superpower ability to lay out in the sun for
six hours straight in a year UV of 11. No. Yeah,
don't do that.
Meredith Oke (35:34):
No.
Sarah Kleiner (35:37):
There. And I think a lot of people, myself
included, came into this information and, and
what I was following people who said that. And I
did photo age my skin. I did get some Wrinkles
from overdoing it. And now you can find me in a
(35:57):
wide brimmed hat, a visor. I still don't wear
sunscreen because I'm never in a situation where
I can't control the amount of sun that I'm
getting. I can always go to the shade or put on
some clothing like cover up. But I think that
there's so many researchers out there and there
(36:18):
are people that want the clicks and the views and
the likes and so they put out this information
that's very dogmatic and again talks down to
people and is just rude. Like I read some of
these posts and I'm like, rude?
Meredith Oke (36:33):
Yeah.
Sarah Kleiner (36:35):
How does this have 3,000 likes? It's rude. I
don't like it. I don't like to see people being
talked to that way. And then they're like, but I
can never. But I don't. And I'm like, it just
doesn't work that way, guys. There can be a case
(36:55):
where someone may need to wear a non nano zinc
oxide sunscreen. There may be a case, and this is
blasphemy, where someone may need to wear a pair
of sunglasses that are something like Raw Optics,
Blue Sync or I know Bon Charge has some that are.
That they won't shut down your circadian rhythm.
(37:16):
But our eyes are not meant to get glare off of
sidewalks, off of water, off of really white sand
like you see on the Gulf. I mean like that hurts.
It damages the retina. It puts your body and your
nervous system into a state of fight flight. It's
an unnatural reflection of the sun and it can
(37:38):
hurt your eyes. So there. That's one of the
biggest pet peeves of mine lately is that people.
If you live in Canada and you've decided to go to
Florida and it's March, you need to be really
careful. Like you don't. You can really burn
(38:00):
yourself if you think that you're not avoiding,
you're avoiding seed oils and you're going out in
the morning for sunrise and for uva and you can
spend all day on the beach. Like you know, you
may not want to do that. Not to say that those
things don't help. They absolutely do help there.
(38:20):
I just put out an article in my newsletter
recently about skin protective foods. You've got
astaxanthin. There are phytochemicals and
compounds in things like lycopene that do protect
the skin from strong UV and that they actually
have some like built in sunscreen effects. There
(38:41):
is a lot of scientific data that shows things
like seed oils can actually mutate and cause skin
cancers. And I put those papers in that article
as well. But it doesn't make us immune. Like
there's a certain point that everyone's body will
come to depending on your Fitzpatrick skin type,
depending on if you've built up resilience and
(39:02):
solar tolerance and callous. So yeah, that's my
long winded answer.
Meredith Oke (39:09):
Yes. Yes. And it's. It goes back to like that
perfectionism thing and the ability to have like
a balanced mind and a mature cognitive capacity
where it's like, oh, the sun is really good for
me, but that doesn't mean eight hours outside in
a UV 11 when I'm fair skinned and I'm not used to
(39:31):
it is good for me. Like it's not all one thing.
There, there is balance. Like fat is good for me,
but that doesn't mean I'm going to eat an all fat
diet or I'm going to. Right. Like we.
Sarah Kleiner (39:45):
Or nothing but sugar. That's the new thing. Yeah,
the sugar diet. That's got everyone.
Meredith Oke (39:51):
What?
Sarah Kleiner (39:52):
Why are you guys so mad about this right now?
People are so mad about the sugar diet.
Meredith Oke (39:57):
What's the sugar diet? I only follow like you and
my quantum people. So when weird things happen,
I'm like, what? What's happening? What's this
craze?
Sarah Kleiner (40:08):
It's a thing. It's a thing people are doing. Mark
Bell is doing it and just talking about how
shredded he's getting from it. It's so dumb.
Meredith Oke (40:17):
I swear to God. You put a picture of yourself
looking fit on the, on the Internet and then say
I got looking like this by doing this and it's
like somehow proof that that's the best thing to
do for everybody. What sugar diet? So like, like,
like fruit or like.
Sarah Kleiner (40:37):
Like sugar, like fruit and candy is what people
are. Maple syrup, honey.
Meredith Oke (40:45):
Sorry. What's the like rationale for like what
are they?
Sarah Kleiner (40:51):
It's hitting the other side of the Randall cycle
and there is a hormone, I think it's called FG1.
I don't know. I talked with Dr. Sarah about this
whole thing on my YouTube channel and all the
carnivores came out of the woodwork and were like
pissed off. Which we weren't even like saying
people should do it. We were just discussing it
and like what it was and how it worked. Everyone
(41:13):
got so mad.
Meredith Oke (41:15):
You can't talk about sugar. Yeah, we get a little
attached to these concepts, don't we? And then
they become like our, our safety, our safety
blanket our personality. And so Whenever any
information, and especially if it comes through
(41:37):
someone who we think is on our side and it's like
interfering with what we believe, it's the way
it's supposed to be, we get really triggered.
Sarah Kleiner (41:49):
Yeah, I just don't, I'm not on anyone's like,
quote unquote side. I think I piss people off
because even the sun stuff, I'm like, yeah,
sometimes you might need to protect your eyes on
the water or on snow sometimes.
Meredith Oke (42:06):
Which is, which is a true and reasonable thing to
say. And it's only because we can't. A lot of us
came to this information through such a, you
know, one sided, dogmatic, puritanical, stupid
really approach that. Like, of course you need to
(42:26):
wear goggles when you're skiing. Of course you
need to protect your eyes if you're out on a boat
or anywhere with a glare. And our family learned
that, like, we were like, oh, this, we want to
get as much sun as possible. And we went on a ski
trip and we had gone on like a beach trip and
we'd been, you know, we didn't use sunscreen. We
did all the other things instead and went in the
(42:47):
shade when we got pink and all this stuff and it
was great. So then we went on a ski trip and
we're like, ah, all the sun all the time and we
didn't put on sunblock. And one day we were, we
were in the like the Alps, which is really high
altitude. It was, it was stupid. It was stupid.
And after one day we were like, we're idiots. We
(43:08):
bought some zinc. But, you know, this is how we
learn.
Sarah Kleiner (43:16):
I mean, I did, I had to learn for myself.
Thankfully, there's no irreparable damage that's
been done. I don't, I don't know, I feel like
it's hard to do irreparable, irreparable damage.
I don't know why I can't talk today. Because
people freak out about this stuff and think that
they have with their health. And I, I always say,
(43:37):
you're only broken if you say you are you.
There's no point of return if you say there's no
point of return. So yeah, we screw up, we make
mistakes, but we have highly adaptable bodies if
we can course correct. So, you know, sunburn.
Okay.
Meredith Oke (43:54):
Oops.
Sarah Kleiner (43:56):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (43:58):
Yeah. And as you said, you know, the, the UV
light will cause photo damage. And so I've become
as well, a hat wearer. So people who've met me in
the last five years are like, oh, you're really
love wearing hats. Like, oh, I do now. This is
just about. Yeah. Developing a way of living
(44:20):
that's not insane, that doesn't feel super hard.
Like, maybe changing habits in the beginning does
require a lot of support. Support. That's why I
think it's good that you have communities, that
there are health coaches. Right. Like, we do need
that support to change things, to do new things,
Things that maybe the people in our normal lives
are like, why would you do that? But once it
(44:42):
becomes a habit, you don't have to think about it
anymore, Right?
Sarah Kleiner (44:44):
Correct.
Meredith Oke (44:45):
And you don't have to hold yourself to some kind
of false standard that you've concocted from
various Instagram posts of people telling you
there's only one way to do things.
Sarah Kleiner (45:03):
Exactly.
Meredith Oke (45:07):
So before we wrap up, I want to talk about the
app, because for anyone listening who does want
to embrace the sun, I just. I want to say Sarah
and I have both embraced this way of life. And I
don't know, I think we look really good. I don't
feel wrinkled. You look way younger than you just
(45:29):
said you were. So it's fun. I have more energy. I
feel so much better. I no longer suffer from
chronic fatigue. And it's not like everything's
perfect all of the time, but it's like, if you've
ever changed your eating habits and you're like,
oh, wow, how did I ever eat that way before? I
feel so much better. It's. It's like that with.
But with a son.
Sarah Kleiner (45:51):
Exactly.
Meredith Oke (45:52):
And a very helpful way to, like, get inside of
this and do it sensibly and effectively is to use
the Circadian app that Sarah had made. She hired
a designer and, like, she's like, here's all the
things that are important to track, like, make an
app. Tell us. Tell us about it, because I think
it's really good.
Sarah Kleiner (46:12):
Yeah. It's called my Circadian app. It's all one
word. And I had a lot of clients and people with
brain fog, and they just. I was giving them
several different apps to help them to figure out
these different things. And so the app will
essentially let you know what time, Daybreak,
sunrise, uva, which we talked about those earlier
(46:36):
in the episode, why they're important. Uvb.
That's when we actually make vitamin D, because
people, most people have no idea that you only
can synthesize D at certain parts of the day in
certain parts of the year. So the app is going to
let you know when that happens for you. And it
has a timer in there, so you can Put in your skin
type and how much clothing you're wearing, and
(46:57):
the app will say you need to, you know, it'll
kind of gauge the time based on UV index, skin
type, clothing, how safe it is for you to be out
there. Now, obviously, you never want to override
your own tuition because an app says you have,
like, two more minutes. If you feel, like, really
warm and you're getting that erythema dose in the
skin, you're feeling kind of warm, then go, you
(47:19):
know, get out of it. But I find it to be pretty
spot on for people that are just building a
relationship with the sun. So that timer, the D
timer, will help you to figure out how long is
appropriate for you to be out in that stronger
light. Also lets you know when sunset happens,
when nightfall happens. I use that as my reminder
(47:39):
to get the blue blockers out, start mitigating
the artificial light at night, because we didn't
really talk about that, but that's another huge
metabolic destroyer, really. And there's tons of
literature on that. I know Meredith has tons of
episodes on that, but the app will let you know
when that's happening. And then with the full
version, you can forecast up to five days in
advance. So you can know what time sunrise is
(48:01):
tomorrow, the next day, the next day, uva. Right.
Because these times change, as we mentioned, with
the early sunrises in the summer, it's not like
that in the winter, It's a bit later in the
winter. So these times just change a little bit
every single day depending on where you live. The
further north you live, the more extreme the
change is from day to day. Like me, it's a little
(48:22):
more moderate, but it really gives you all in one
what you need to know. It's got a lux meter, so
you can understand. Am I getting enough Lux in
the morning, even if it's cloudy and rainy? Oh,
I'm going to measure my Lux, and that's going to
give me that little extra motivation to get out
there and get that light. Even though it's not
very pretty, it's not very fun. And then you can
(48:45):
measure Lux in your bedroom at night, too,
because there's also studies. And the app has
tons of studies in there, so it backs up all this
information that you want to have Your lux below
10 the three hours leading up to bed, along with
the blue blockers. And so you can measure from
where you're sitting. Like, is it dim enough
(49:07):
here? Because I've seen people sit in front of
these really bright red light therapy panels that
can trigger the cortisol response, if that goes
in. So it's just got all that. It's got a moon
tracker to tell you phases of the moon. It's got
a compass to tell you north, south, east, and
west. So lots of cool stuff in there. And we even
(49:27):
just got a red screen mode, so you can. Oh, cool.
Yeah, you can go in Settings and it'll adapt the
app for red screen mode so that you can see, you
know, because red screen will wipe out certain
apps. You're like, what's happening? So it has a
red screen mode now, which is pretty cool.
Meredith Oke (49:47):
Oh, that's so good.
Sarah Kleiner (49:48):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (49:49):
Yeah. So I definitely recommend downloading this
app, my Circadian app, because it's like one of
those things, you're like, okay, like, I'll do
the sunlight thing. And then as you start doing
it, you're like, oh, wait, what about this? Oh,
wait, what about that? And so this app just
answers all the questions and you know that, you
know, you're keeping yourself safe and not
staying out too long. And then, as you said,
(50:10):
Sarah, eventually you'll know intuitively. But
it's a really great way to get started and stay
on track. I use it all the time. I didn't know
about the bed, like, using it in my bedroom to
make sure it's dark enough. That's a good pro tip.
Sarah Kleiner (50:23):
Your sleeping environment, love it less and a
one. But that evening environment, 10 and below,
three hours getting up to bed. So, yeah, Sarah
and I, when we watch tv, I'll put a pair of blue
blockers over the lens and, like, measure, like.
Okay, we're good. Cover up the skin, watch a
little tv.
Meredith Oke (50:45):
Okay, good. I was gonna ask of, like, what if
you're wearing blue blockers but watching Netflix.
Sarah Kleiner (50:52):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (50:53):
So we're still okay?
Sarah Kleiner (50:55):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (50:55):
And good. All right, well, thanks for jumping on
and sharing all of this. It's going to be so
helpful. And this is such a good episode to share
with your friends who are like, what are you
doing? Why are you wearing those glasses? What's.
What's going on? Where's your SPF 50? You can
(51:16):
just send them this episode. That's what this is
for. And you can follow Sarah, Sarah Kleiner
Wellness on Instagram. She provides tons of super
great information on there. You have a newsletter
and of course, the Circadian app.
Sarah Kleiner (51:33):
Amazing. Thank you for having me. Okay. Yeah,
thank you.
Meredith Oke (51:38):
We'll see you soon.
Sarah Kleiner (51:40):
Alrighty.
Sarah Kleiner, welcome back. Good to see you.
Sarah Kleiner (05:05):
Good to see you. As always. Thank you for having
me.
Meredith Oke (05:09):
I love having you. And I'm excited because today
we're going to talk about sunlight and all the
ways that it's amazing for us. But first I wanted
to start. So I did an interview earlier this week
with the founders husband and wife who founded
Boncharge. And because they're in Australia, the
(05:32):
interview is at like 8pm so when I was having
dinner with the family, I made all my children
come up with questions for the Bontarsh people.
And my daughter Twyla, who's 11, she was like,
ask, ask him how the orange glasses get orange.
So I did, and it was like a really fun answer
(05:52):
that I'm like, I didn't actually know that. So I
said, twyla, that was a really good question.
Thanks. She's like, no problem. When's your next
podcast? I'm like, it's with my friend Sarah
Kleiner. And she's like, oh, does she do. I said,
she's a health coach. She's like, okay, you
should ask her why she became a health coach. And
I was like, oh, gosh, okay. And then she pauses
(06:15):
and she goes, does she have any siblings? I said,
yeah, she has a sister. She said, two. Two
sisters. Okay. She goes, you should ask her what
they think of all this quantum biology stuff. I
love that.
Sarah Kleiner (06:35):
I should have her over to help me questions for
my guests.
Meredith Oke (06:40):
She's available.
Sarah Kleiner (06:43):
Amazing summer internship.
Meredith Oke (06:48):
So anyway, I feel like that's actually fun. Like,
what, what do your sisters think of all this?
Because I know it's, it's, you know. Yeah, it's
like everyone has people in their family who are
like, what are you talking about?
Sarah Kleiner (07:02):
Yeah, I'm the black sheep of the family.
Absolutely. Yeah. We just say that we are very. I
mean, I love my sisters very, very dearly. And
we're close. We talk almost every day, really,
but we don't talk about health because we have a
lot of disagreements on that topic. And yeah,
(07:27):
it's, it can be a little bit touchy that we
definitely choose to raise our children
differently than one another and we choose to
live our lives differently. And yeah, and it's,
it's a touchy situation. There's definitely
differences in our health. I will say that
(07:48):
without kind of. I don't know, I love them so
much, you know, so I never want to talk badly
about my own family, but I. It's hard to watch my
sisters who are younger than me. I'm the oldest
it's hard to watch them begin to really struggle
with their health. We're in our 40s. I just
turned 46 yesterday.
Meredith Oke (08:07):
And happy birthday.
Sarah Kleiner (08:09):
Thank you. They're younger than me, and so I. I
have a hard time, like, biting my tongue and not
saying stuff because. Because I'm like, that is.
That problem you're dealing with is completely
preventable through sunlight exposure, diet,
lifestyle changes. But they kind of. I think
they've seen me go through so many different ways
(08:33):
of looking at health and trying on so many
different hats over the years. And it's been.
Since we were, like, children, you know, I was
always the one getting them to dance to Richard
Simmons sweating to the oldies, you know, like.
Meredith Oke (08:50):
They would.
Sarah Kleiner (08:51):
Come along on my wild ideas. They're like, okay.
And then after a while, they're like, she's
insane. We're not doing this anymore. So I get
it. I understand why they don't want to, like,
listen. But. Yeah, that's kind of that story.
Meredith Oke (09:08):
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah. And my. My.
I have a brother. He's like, 100 uninterested in
any of this. He's like, but, yeah, you can. We
can still have a relationship and do all the
things and. And it's fun. You know, it's
interesting. The eye of the beholder, right?
Because when it. When it's your sister and you're
(09:28):
like, oh, God, what is she into now? But, you
know, as. As a friend, as a colleague, I see it
as, you know, the evolution of your education,
trying all of these different things, and your
spiritual development and your, you know, growth
as a practitioner is through the experiential
(09:50):
learning that you had by trying things out since
you were a child.
Sarah Kleiner (09:54):
You learn a lot about what doesn't work. You
know, you really do. And that's a lot of. On
social media right now. I just did a post about
nutrition. Half truths. Because it seems as
though if you really talk an authoritative tone
and you talk down to people, even if what you're
saying is not true or there's maybe a bit of
(10:16):
truth to it, that people really love that and
they really will. You'll grow fast. You'll go
viral. You'll get all the clicks and the likes,
and I can't operate that way, number one. But
number two, it's really become the. The lay of
the land, unfortunately. And it's hurting people.
It is really hurting, hurting people. I sit
(10:37):
across from people on zoom on a very regular
basis that they have bought in, like, really 100,
bought into some of these really polarizing
people online. And I did the same thing. Like I
said, I've learned a lot about what doesn't work,
and it's. It's not good what happens to people on
the other end. You know, I wish that people that
(11:00):
have made these online Personas could see the
things that I see. Maybe they do. Maybe they do.
I don't know. Maybe they get the emails and the.
The messages from people, or maybe they've chosen
to. To look a blind eye, you know, draw a blind
eye towards it. I don't know. But it's wild out
there.
Meredith Oke (11:20):
Yeah, it is. And you're right. I mean, there's
something about someone just speaking
authoritatively and like, maybe. Maybe making you
feel, like, a little bit stupid. And you're just
like, what? Tell me more. And having it be on a
screen. There's like, something about your
professional views, like an authoritative
(11:43):
presence, camera work and good editing and.
Sarah Kleiner (11:48):
Yeah, that's how it works, you guys. It's called
the mainstream media that you've rejected.
Meredith Oke (11:54):
Yes, but that's the thing. We were trained on it.
So we're like, I'm gonna reject those people on
cnn, but like, this guy on Instagram can feed me
any nonsense. It's fine.
Sarah Kleiner (12:08):
I'm just not interested in having con. I want to
have thoughtful dialogue with people. I want to
connect with people and have a meaningful
conversation. I really do. I don't want to tell
people exactly what to do because I don't know
exactly what someone should do. I know some great
foundations that I think everyone should have in
(12:29):
place, but there's so much nuance to. In. To the
individual person, and it does a big disservice
when we make people think that they can't survive
without us. You know, I think a post I did
recently that said something like, the. The worst
(12:49):
teachers are the ones that think that the healing
was all because of them, you know, that you
couldn't do it without them. And the best
teachers are the ones who remind you that the
healing was yours all along, you know? Yeah.
Meredith Oke (13:05):
Yes. And to empower ourselves to. To remember
that. And while we have help along the way and
support along the way and learn from mentors and
practitioners, it's inner work. And so you
mentioned foundational pieces that are to have in
(13:25):
place. And then beyond that, there's lots of
nuance. So one of those foundational pieces is
for sure, the sun and sunlight. And I just want
to do a deep dive into that. We have a lot of new
listeners and even people who've been around for
a while. It's like, I think it's really worth
just going through some of the key ways that we
(13:50):
benefit from not cutting ourselves off from what
is essentially the source of light, of life. And,
you know, we talk about obviously safe and
sensible ways to do that. But let's just start
with why we need the sun.
Sarah Kleiner (14:09):
Well, light really gives the body instructions to
do everything we need it to do. That's a basic.
We want the right type of light at the right
times, and then the right, you know, enough
darkness and darkness period at the right times.
This clock in our brain called the
superchiasmatic nucleus, it really is giving
(14:30):
instructions to everything in your body. And so
were meant to run on what's called a circadian
rhythm. Now, this is being studied in big pharma.
You know, it has been for a long time. I know
you've had Dr. See, hold on here. And he and I
talked about the same thing of this whole thing
of medicine studying the circadian timing of
(14:54):
medication, how certain times of day it's going
to work better. Certain times of day, there's a
chance for more toxicity. Our body is the same
thing. Our gut runs on this rhythm. You know,
certain times of the day we have more digestive
function, more stomach acid, more enzymatic
function. Certain times of the day, hormones are
meant to start going in a. In a symphony run on a
(15:19):
circadian rhythm. Again, this should be signaled
by light and darkness. And so if we're missing
these crucial elements, and as a fa, it's a
foundation, our metabolism's not going to work
properly, our gut's not going to work properly,
our brain's not going to work properly. The, the
information on circadian health and mental health
(15:41):
is extensive. You know, all the dysfunction, all
the things that everyone talks about, gut health,
mental health and hormone health, those are the
big hot topics in the holistic wellness and
alternative wellness space. That's a foundation,
you know, for any of these things to work. And I
think that people are so quick to look at what
(16:05):
supplement can I take and what diet can I do? And
not that those things don't have a time and a
place, but if the foundation is weak, as in your
circadian rhythms aren't dialed in, good luck,
you know, good luck with those things working as
effectively as they could or should.
Meredith Oke (16:24):
Right? And I think that's the piece that so many
people are still missing. It's like, oh, yeah, I
guess I feel better when I go outside. But it's
like, you wouldn't go a day without Drinking
water. Right. Like, you wouldn't go an extended
period of time without eating real food. And yet
we still sort of. I don't think it's truly
(16:48):
landed. I know for a lot of people listening to
this podcast, it has. But for all your friends
and neighbors and family. Right. Like, it hasn't
truly landed. Like, we are an extension of this
light source and without it, we can't. Like,
(17:09):
everything else is a band aid.
Sarah Kleiner (17:11):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We can keep trying to push
things together and make things work, but if you
don't have the foundation, like I said, good
luck. It's going to be that much more difficult
cold. So metabolism is a big one. You know, I
always. I always say I kind of trick people to
come into my deeper work through talking about
(17:34):
weight loss, because, yeah, you can use this to
improve your metabolism. I have, you know, I've
struggled with my weight my entire life. Has lost
£100, three times. Just really a lot of struggles
with my metabolic health. Even on a really quote
unquote clean diet. My fasting blood sugar was
(17:57):
still high. It was still 90s low 100s, a lot of
days. And until I added these elements of light.
And it's very simple. People think it has to be
the way that we're taught a specific protocol and
getting X amount of minutes. And it doesn't have
(18:17):
to be perfect, but you do have to provide the
brain with the right signals for the metabolism
to function optimally. And what the research
clearly shows us is that if your days, your
mornings are too dim and your nights are too
bright, then that alone slows down the
metabolism. So you can again go on a very
(18:40):
restrictive diet. Eat clean, try to do all the
things, yet live the way that everyone lives,
which is waking up in the morning, looking at the
phone, turning on lights indoors and indoors.
Your lux, which is a measure of brightness, is
going to max out typically around 500, and that's
very, very bright. I would say the lux in my
(19:02):
house when I've measured it, is like 30, because
we don't do a bunch of overhead lights. When you
go outdoors, even on a cloudy, overcast day, the
lux can get up to like 10,000. And the brain
needs a minimum of about a thousand. When you
look at all the data and the research together,
it needs about a minimum of a thousand. You know,
(19:23):
up to 10,000 in that morning window. As well as
the signals from sunlight, we get the red, the
infrared, that's important for mitochondria, we
get UV light, that's important for metabolism,
for fat burning. We get all of that from simply
stepping outside during those, those windows of
(19:43):
time. It's such a, it's such a huge boost for the
metabolism and the mitochondria, which is
essentially the body's energy management system.
If those don't work, then again, good luck. But
our indoor living, our modern life prevents us
from getting those signals. There's no red and
infrared indoors. There's no UV light indoors
(20:05):
because we have energy efficient homes and we've
been taught that UV light is harmful. So we block
it all out so that alone can slow down your
metabolism. And that has been studied over and
over again. So you can fact check.
Meredith Oke (20:21):
This is crazy. I mean, this is crazy. Like, if I,
you know, I was talking to my college roommate a
few months ago and she's like, oh, I put on
weight, you know, I didn't change anything. It
was, you know, it's hormonal. And so she, you
know, we just like revert back to what we learned
when we were paying attention, even if it was 10
years ago, 20 years ago, whatever. So she's like,
(20:42):
I got, I gotta get a peloton and like start, you
know, skipping lunch or something. And the idea
that, that her, you know, her hormones and her
metabolism is all, you know, all is connected
are, could be affected by the light that she's
getting. Like she was, you know, like, it just
(21:04):
seemed insane. So tell us like a little more
about, about how light controls our metabolism.
Right. Like this is for, I know this is like,
this is for my college roommate Julie. That's who
this question is for.
Sarah Kleiner (21:23):
Well, there's a lot of elements to light that
signal the metabolism. I kind of just jumbled
them all in there. But to break it down, simply
sunrise is when we get that first little hit of
blue that tells the brain let's, you know, turn
off melatonin, start gradually making cortisol.
And if you, if you go online, there's this whole
(21:47):
cortisol face. Cortisol this, cortisol that.
Cortisol is the root of all evil for weight gain.
And the reason you're gaining weight is your
cortisol. And it's like, again, like, it's a
partial truth. We are meant to have cortisol rise
in the morning and that's with that timing of the
blue light that's from outdoors. So at sunrise we
get this beautiful red and infrared that speaks
(22:11):
directly to mitochondria, that allows us to make
this metabolic water, that allows us to expand
the cellular water in the body, which is like a
battery of Energy. So you think about, we're
supporting mitochondria, which, as I mentioned,
is the body's energy management system. By
getting out there at sunrise, getting that hit of
blue light. It's a very little bit of blue light
(22:32):
that comes on the horizon at sunrise. And it's
gradual to make cortisol in this natural, gradual
way. Now, I mentioned Lux. There's a difference
between Lux and Kelvin. I know this can confuse
people. There's a lux meter in my app, my
circadian app, that we'll talk about later on in
the episode, I'm sure. But indoors, the lux is
(22:53):
way too low, as I mentioned, maybe 500 maximum.
Most places it's going to be much dimmer than
that. So you've got the element of Lux being too
dim, but then you have the Kelvin being way too
high. So Kelvin is a, is another measurement of
light. And Kelvin in our indoor modern lighting
bulbs are like 5700, 6000. Your, your iPhone
(23:16):
screen or your phone screen is usually 5700 or
6000. So that is enough blue light, enough
brightness, again, not brightness, but enough
blue light really. And intensity. Kelvin is like
intensity of that light. Intensity also signals
the brain and says, hey, it's the middle of the
day. It's June. It's in the middle of the day.
Even though it might be December at like 7am It's
(23:41):
a signal to that clock in the brain that is
activated by blue light. Says, you got to hurry
up and make more cortisol because we've, we've
slept in and now you've got to hurry up and make
more. So we get a natural rise of cortisol, we
get metabolic support, mitochondrial support from
sunrise, we get a metabolic confusion, or as
(24:03):
ChatGPT would call it, metabolic chaos. Everyone
sees in Chat GPT these days, everyone's got
metabolic chaos. I know you use chat GPT for your
post. Hormone chaos. Anywho, your phone is giving
(24:24):
you metabolic chaos. Hormone chaos. Sunlight is
this beautiful symphony of light that, that gives
your body the right signals. And so that's the,
that's the first window of light that you really
want to get out there for. Then we have UV light,
which, as I mentioned, has really been demonized.
But UV light, especially in the eyes and then on
(24:46):
the skin, there's some benefits as well. But it's
eye and skin. I've got the papers on that in my
leptin master plan course. It tells the brain to
make something called Alpha msh, which is kind of
like fat burning, right? So it's it boosts your
metabolism in, in a very non scientific
explanation. Explanation. It's boosting your
(25:07):
metabolism, boosting fat burning and it regulates
your appetite. So I have a lot of people that
come to me that they have no appetite in the
morning. They're just like, oh guess what? That's
probably too much cortisol from what did I just
mention before? The phone screen and the lights
part of it, stress, the coffee, just getting this
(25:28):
huge spike and of course you're not hungry. And
so the way I have people to start regulating
their appetite is sunrise light because that's
going to start those metabolic clocks spinning
appropriately. But then you've got UV light where
you get production of serotonin, dopamine, alpha
msh and that can help to regulate the appetite.
(25:50):
So if you're someone who's never been hungry in
the morning, I'm like, don't force feed yourself.
Maybe have like a little something, little
protein, get it started. But don't make yourself
sick. But go outside during that UVA window when
UVA first begins to come online. That's right
after sunrise, depending on where you are. That's
why I put that in my app, my circadian app, so
(26:11):
you can understand, oh, it's 45 minutes after
sunrise. It's in the app. It'll tell you try to
get out there at the beginning of that and if you
can spend 20 minutes out there, that can do
wonders for your appetite and your metabolism.
Plus you get the lux, you get that appropriate
amount of lux and brightness. So for metabolic
(26:31):
benefits that's really, and I'm, there's more
elements to it. Right? We could probably have a
six hour long podcast about all of this, but this
is a dumbed down yes, we.
Meredith Oke (26:43):
Just, we want the, we just want the essentials.
Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I like to give
enough information for people to, to be able to
decide to take action. Right. And then if you, if
it's important to you to understand every little
minutia of the science there, by all means go
(27:04):
study it. But I think for most people it's like
especially it's like I need to know enough to,
for this to make sense cognitively. Like my, my
intellect needs enough information to be able to
say, okay, that is a logical good choice. And
we're also, when it comes to the sun, we also are
(27:25):
having to counterbalance like 20 years worth of
propaganda saying that the sun is going to kill
us and we should never go, we should be covered
up everywhere every time we go outside. So.
Sarah Kleiner (27:41):
We also get Nitric oxide, which is, you know,
I've been talking a lot about perimenopause
because I'm in the thick of it myself. You know,
I'm at that age. But I feel like this stuff helps
so, so much. And one thing that can happen to a
woman as she goes towards menopause is nitric
oxide levels go way down. Now this is also true
(28:01):
in people with cardiovascular issues. And one of
the things that UV light does, and if you can get
that morning uva, like get that process started
in the morning, is increase your, your body's
nitric oxide production. So that's going to
improve certain circulation again, another
metabolic boost, beta endorphin. So a lot of
people start to do this stuff and they're like, I
(28:23):
crave it, I need it. That's how I, that's how I
am now. But your body makes beta endorphins in
the morning and it's such a great. And dopamine,
it's so many wonderful things. Such a great way
to start your day rather than scrolling. And
coffee.
Meredith Oke (28:43):
Yeah. And just on the coffee, would your guidance
be to push it later for those of us who still
like to have our coffee?
Sarah Kleiner (28:54):
I do. I, I like people to push it a bit later.
You know, I'll do good structured mineral water,
some hydrogen water. When I first wake up, walk
around the backyard grounding with my dog. She
always, she's like the reason, okay, I gotta go
outside and walk around because my dog just has
(29:15):
to go out. So grounding water. Then I go inside
and eat something, then I'll have some coffee. I
went a couple of years without coffee and yeah,
it improved my hrv, it improved my sleep,
probably was supportive to thyroid and adrenals,
(29:35):
help me probably get pregnant, stay pregnant and,
you know. But then my son was born, life got
crazy and I just missed my coffee. So I have
coffee, but I always have sunlight, some
grounding, some hydration, some breakfast, then
I'll have some coffee. And then I cut myself off
by 9 o' clock. I just don't do it after 9am
(29:59):
because it can be a circadian disruptor for sure.
Right.
Meredith Oke (30:05):
Because it's giving that cortisol spike when
you're perhaps not meant to be having it. Yeah,
got it. Okay, then let's talk about sunrise for a
little bit. So I know, I know for me there are
certain times of years, certain times of the year
where I am up at sunrise, but there are also
(30:26):
certain times of the year where sunrise is so
early that I am fast asleep at Sunrise. So I
would say it's probably like an hour later that I
wake up and go outside. Am I still getting
benefits? And for, for people who, you know, for
whatever scheduling reasons are not up at
sunrise, is it just like go outside and get the
morning light? Whatever time it is, is that still
(30:48):
helping?
Sarah Kleiner (30:49):
I've learned about just coaching and teaching and
understanding this whole thing is it doesn't have
to to be perfect, it just has to be consistent.
You know, just start to develop some consistency.
And yeah, it's in the summer and I have people
that live way up in Canada and Sweden and places
where the sun doesn't even set in the summer,
(31:10):
which can be a whole other conversation. I feel
like I need to do a video for my YouTube channel
because I keep getting so many people with these
questions and I have a whole module about it in
my sunwise course and in my leptin. Like I have
modules behind my, in my courses that go into
this and give you tons of strategies and
protocols. But what I've kind of come to the
(31:32):
conclusion of after working with so many people
and so many people in my community is that number
one, it's consistency over perfection. I think in
the summertime it's really just more important to
have a consistent wake time and a consistent
sleep time. And we typically, unless someone's
dealing with a chronic illness, they're really
(31:52):
trying to heal from something, we can get away
with a little bit less sleep in the summer. Then
we need more in the winter. Like summer is
vitamin D season. We're supposed to be soaking it
up. We're supposed to have longer days, make a
little bit more cortisol. Winter, we're supposed
to be sleeping more, really pumping out that
melatonin, pumping in repair, autophagy, all that
(32:14):
really supposed to be in repair mode in the
winter. That's a whole other conversation because
most people live like it's summer year round. But
I think that in the summertime, wake times, if
you can get a little bit of sunrise in there, I
mean just before UV light hits, it's going to be
a little bit of a different signal than the uv.
(32:36):
So yeah, it's just really going to depend on
where you live. I live in Georgia, so the latest
our sunrise really comes up. I think it's like
6:30. That's doable. Yeah, but if it was 5:30,
girl, I'd be sleeping.
Meredith Oke (32:52):
Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. It's 5:30
and I'm like, I'm not.
Sarah Kleiner (32:56):
Gonna have a five.
Meredith Oke (32:57):
Yeah. 6:15 is my, is my earliest. And I've tried,
I've tried forcing myself to get up because I'm
like, I have to see the sunrise. That's the
thing. And I'm really tired all day, even with
the sunrise because I just wasn't ready to get
up. So yeah, I'm like, okay, so in this, in
those. When the sun rises at 5:15.
Sarah Kleiner (33:19):
I know Dr. Sarah, she's flying in here tomorrow.
She's gonna be staying with me for like a month
tomorrow. She, she doesn't have children. She
does live in the uk and I know she gets up for
the sunrise there, which is like four in the
morning in the summer. But I can't do that.
(33:41):
Wouldn't do that probably. Even if I lived in the
UK, I probably would still be like 6:30 gal.
Meredith Oke (33:48):
Yeah, no, that's okay. Good. I'm glad we had this
chat and I wanted to have it because I, I know
that when you're first learning something,
everyone wants to like do it perfectly perfect
and perfect. You know, we develop all these
purity tests and everything. And it's like, you
(34:09):
know, close enough is good enough. And
consistency, consistency is the key. Absolutely.
Sarah Kleiner (34:16):
My, my group members are so good now. They, they
repeat it to me. They're like consistency over
perfection. And I think I say that in a lot of my
courses. At the end of each lesson, I really want
to drill that into people because we can't be
perfect. We just literally cannot be perfect. We
can be consistent though, to the best of our
(34:36):
ability. And when our head hits the pillow at
night, we know we did our best. We can do that.
But life's gonna happen sometimes. It really is.
And so you just. Consistency is gonna go a long
way. And remember that for most of your life you
didn't have access to this information. You
(34:56):
weren't implementing it. And now here we are. So
let's just do our best.
Meredith Oke (35:03):
Yep. And we will. So, yeah, it's consistent sun,
not perfect sun. So what do you hear from people?
Like, what are some of the biggest sun myths that
you'd like to, that you'd like to burst? And then
I have some other stuff I want to ask you.
Sarah Kleiner (35:18):
More is better. Avoiding seed oils will give you
the superpower ability to lay out in the sun for
six hours straight in a year UV of 11. No. Yeah,
don't do that.
Meredith Oke (35:34):
No.
Sarah Kleiner (35:37):
There. And I think a lot of people, myself
included, came into this information and, and
what I was following people who said that. And I
did photo age my skin. I did get some Wrinkles
from overdoing it. And now you can find me in a
(35:57):
wide brimmed hat, a visor. I still don't wear
sunscreen because I'm never in a situation where
I can't control the amount of sun that I'm
getting. I can always go to the shade or put on
some clothing like cover up. But I think that
there's so many researchers out there and there
(36:18):
are people that want the clicks and the views and
the likes and so they put out this information
that's very dogmatic and again talks down to
people and is just rude. Like I read some of
these posts and I'm like, rude?
Meredith Oke (36:33):
Yeah.
Sarah Kleiner (36:35):
How does this have 3,000 likes? It's rude. I
don't like it. I don't like to see people being
talked to that way. And then they're like, but I
can never. But I don't. And I'm like, it just
doesn't work that way, guys. There can be a case
(36:55):
where someone may need to wear a non nano zinc
oxide sunscreen. There may be a case, and this is
blasphemy, where someone may need to wear a pair
of sunglasses that are something like Raw Optics,
Blue Sync or I know Bon Charge has some that are.
That they won't shut down your circadian rhythm.
(37:16):
But our eyes are not meant to get glare off of
sidewalks, off of water, off of really white sand
like you see on the Gulf. I mean like that hurts.
It damages the retina. It puts your body and your
nervous system into a state of fight flight. It's
an unnatural reflection of the sun and it can
(37:38):
hurt your eyes. So there. That's one of the
biggest pet peeves of mine lately is that people.
If you live in Canada and you've decided to go to
Florida and it's March, you need to be really
careful. Like you don't. You can really burn
(38:00):
yourself if you think that you're not avoiding,
you're avoiding seed oils and you're going out in
the morning for sunrise and for uva and you can
spend all day on the beach. Like you know, you
may not want to do that. Not to say that those
things don't help. They absolutely do help there.
(38:20):
I just put out an article in my newsletter
recently about skin protective foods. You've got
astaxanthin. There are phytochemicals and
compounds in things like lycopene that do protect
the skin from strong UV and that they actually
have some like built in sunscreen effects. There
(38:41):
is a lot of scientific data that shows things
like seed oils can actually mutate and cause skin
cancers. And I put those papers in that article
as well. But it doesn't make us immune. Like
there's a certain point that everyone's body will
come to depending on your Fitzpatrick skin type,
depending on if you've built up resilience and
(39:02):
solar tolerance and callous. So yeah, that's my
long winded answer.
Meredith Oke (39:09):
Yes. Yes. And it's. It goes back to like that
perfectionism thing and the ability to have like
a balanced mind and a mature cognitive capacity
where it's like, oh, the sun is really good for
me, but that doesn't mean eight hours outside in
a UV 11 when I'm fair skinned and I'm not used to
(39:31):
it is good for me. Like it's not all one thing.
There, there is balance. Like fat is good for me,
but that doesn't mean I'm going to eat an all fat
diet or I'm going to. Right. Like we.
Sarah Kleiner (39:45):
Or nothing but sugar. That's the new thing. Yeah,
the sugar diet. That's got everyone.
Meredith Oke (39:51):
What?
Sarah Kleiner (39:52):
Why are you guys so mad about this right now?
People are so mad about the sugar diet.
Meredith Oke (39:57):
What's the sugar diet? I only follow like you and
my quantum people. So when weird things happen,
I'm like, what? What's happening? What's this
craze?
Sarah Kleiner (40:08):
It's a thing. It's a thing people are doing. Mark
Bell is doing it and just talking about how
shredded he's getting from it. It's so dumb.
Meredith Oke (40:17):
I swear to God. You put a picture of yourself
looking fit on the, on the Internet and then say
I got looking like this by doing this and it's
like somehow proof that that's the best thing to
do for everybody. What sugar diet? So like, like,
like fruit or like.
Sarah Kleiner (40:37):
Like sugar, like fruit and candy is what people
are. Maple syrup, honey.
Meredith Oke (40:45):
Sorry. What's the like rationale for like what
are they?
Sarah Kleiner (40:51):
It's hitting the other side of the Randall cycle
and there is a hormone, I think it's called FG1.
I don't know. I talked with Dr. Sarah about this
whole thing on my YouTube channel and all the
carnivores came out of the woodwork and were like
pissed off. Which we weren't even like saying
people should do it. We were just discussing it
and like what it was and how it worked. Everyone
(41:13):
got so mad.
Meredith Oke (41:15):
You can't talk about sugar. Yeah, we get a little
attached to these concepts, don't we? And then
they become like our, our safety, our safety
blanket our personality. And so Whenever any
information, and especially if it comes through
(41:37):
someone who we think is on our side and it's like
interfering with what we believe, it's the way
it's supposed to be, we get really triggered.
Sarah Kleiner (41:49):
Yeah, I just don't, I'm not on anyone's like,
quote unquote side. I think I piss people off
because even the sun stuff, I'm like, yeah,
sometimes you might need to protect your eyes on
the water or on snow sometimes.
Meredith Oke (42:06):
Which is, which is a true and reasonable thing to
say. And it's only because we can't. A lot of us
came to this information through such a, you
know, one sided, dogmatic, puritanical, stupid
really approach that. Like, of course you need to
(42:26):
wear goggles when you're skiing. Of course you
need to protect your eyes if you're out on a boat
or anywhere with a glare. And our family learned
that, like, we were like, oh, this, we want to
get as much sun as possible. And we went on a ski
trip and we had gone on like a beach trip and
we'd been, you know, we didn't use sunscreen. We
did all the other things instead and went in the
(42:47):
shade when we got pink and all this stuff and it
was great. So then we went on a ski trip and
we're like, ah, all the sun all the time and we
didn't put on sunblock. And one day we were, we
were in the like the Alps, which is really high
altitude. It was, it was stupid. It was stupid.
And after one day we were like, we're idiots. We
(43:08):
bought some zinc. But, you know, this is how we
learn.
Sarah Kleiner (43:16):
I mean, I did, I had to learn for myself.
Thankfully, there's no irreparable damage that's
been done. I don't, I don't know, I feel like
it's hard to do irreparable, irreparable damage.
I don't know why I can't talk today. Because
people freak out about this stuff and think that
they have with their health. And I, I always say,
(43:37):
you're only broken if you say you are you.
There's no point of return if you say there's no
point of return. So yeah, we screw up, we make
mistakes, but we have highly adaptable bodies if
we can course correct. So, you know, sunburn.
Okay.
Meredith Oke (43:54):
Oops.
Sarah Kleiner (43:56):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (43:58):
Yeah. And as you said, you know, the, the UV
light will cause photo damage. And so I've become
as well, a hat wearer. So people who've met me in
the last five years are like, oh, you're really
love wearing hats. Like, oh, I do now. This is
just about. Yeah. Developing a way of living
(44:20):
that's not insane, that doesn't feel super hard.
Like, maybe changing habits in the beginning does
require a lot of support. Support. That's why I
think it's good that you have communities, that
there are health coaches. Right. Like, we do need
that support to change things, to do new things,
Things that maybe the people in our normal lives
are like, why would you do that? But once it
(44:42):
becomes a habit, you don't have to think about it
anymore, Right?
Sarah Kleiner (44:44):
Correct.
Meredith Oke (44:45):
And you don't have to hold yourself to some kind
of false standard that you've concocted from
various Instagram posts of people telling you
there's only one way to do things.
Sarah Kleiner (45:03):
Exactly.
Meredith Oke (45:07):
So before we wrap up, I want to talk about the
app, because for anyone listening who does want
to embrace the sun, I just. I want to say Sarah
and I have both embraced this way of life. And I
don't know, I think we look really good. I don't
feel wrinkled. You look way younger than you just
(45:29):
said you were. So it's fun. I have more energy. I
feel so much better. I no longer suffer from
chronic fatigue. And it's not like everything's
perfect all of the time, but it's like, if you've
ever changed your eating habits and you're like,
oh, wow, how did I ever eat that way before? I
feel so much better. It's. It's like that with.
But with a son.
Sarah Kleiner (45:51):
Exactly.
Meredith Oke (45:52):
And a very helpful way to, like, get inside of
this and do it sensibly and effectively is to use
the Circadian app that Sarah had made. She hired
a designer and, like, she's like, here's all the
things that are important to track, like, make an
app. Tell us. Tell us about it, because I think
it's really good.
Sarah Kleiner (46:12):
Yeah. It's called my Circadian app. It's all one
word. And I had a lot of clients and people with
brain fog, and they just. I was giving them
several different apps to help them to figure out
these different things. And so the app will
essentially let you know what time, Daybreak,
sunrise, uva, which we talked about those earlier
(46:36):
in the episode, why they're important. Uvb.
That's when we actually make vitamin D, because
people, most people have no idea that you only
can synthesize D at certain parts of the day in
certain parts of the year. So the app is going to
let you know when that happens for you. And it
has a timer in there, so you can Put in your skin
type and how much clothing you're wearing, and
(46:57):
the app will say you need to, you know, it'll
kind of gauge the time based on UV index, skin
type, clothing, how safe it is for you to be out
there. Now, obviously, you never want to override
your own tuition because an app says you have,
like, two more minutes. If you feel, like, really
warm and you're getting that erythema dose in the
skin, you're feeling kind of warm, then go, you
(47:19):
know, get out of it. But I find it to be pretty
spot on for people that are just building a
relationship with the sun. So that timer, the D
timer, will help you to figure out how long is
appropriate for you to be out in that stronger
light. Also lets you know when sunset happens,
when nightfall happens. I use that as my reminder
(47:39):
to get the blue blockers out, start mitigating
the artificial light at night, because we didn't
really talk about that, but that's another huge
metabolic destroyer, really. And there's tons of
literature on that. I know Meredith has tons of
episodes on that, but the app will let you know
when that's happening. And then with the full
version, you can forecast up to five days in
advance. So you can know what time sunrise is
(48:01):
tomorrow, the next day, the next day, uva. Right.
Because these times change, as we mentioned, with
the early sunrises in the summer, it's not like
that in the winter, It's a bit later in the
winter. So these times just change a little bit
every single day depending on where you live. The
further north you live, the more extreme the
change is from day to day. Like me, it's a little
(48:22):
more moderate, but it really gives you all in one
what you need to know. It's got a lux meter, so
you can understand. Am I getting enough Lux in
the morning, even if it's cloudy and rainy? Oh,
I'm going to measure my Lux, and that's going to
give me that little extra motivation to get out
there and get that light. Even though it's not
very pretty, it's not very fun. And then you can
(48:45):
measure Lux in your bedroom at night, too,
because there's also studies. And the app has
tons of studies in there, so it backs up all this
information that you want to have Your lux below
10 the three hours leading up to bed, along with
the blue blockers. And so you can measure from
where you're sitting. Like, is it dim enough
(49:07):
here? Because I've seen people sit in front of
these really bright red light therapy panels that
can trigger the cortisol response, if that goes
in. So it's just got all that. It's got a moon
tracker to tell you phases of the moon. It's got
a compass to tell you north, south, east, and
west. So lots of cool stuff in there. And we even
(49:27):
just got a red screen mode, so you can. Oh, cool.
Yeah, you can go in Settings and it'll adapt the
app for red screen mode so that you can see, you
know, because red screen will wipe out certain
apps. You're like, what's happening? So it has a
red screen mode now, which is pretty cool.
Meredith Oke (49:47):
Oh, that's so good.
Sarah Kleiner (49:48):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (49:49):
Yeah. So I definitely recommend downloading this
app, my Circadian app, because it's like one of
those things, you're like, okay, like, I'll do
the sunlight thing. And then as you start doing
it, you're like, oh, wait, what about this? Oh,
wait, what about that? And so this app just
answers all the questions and you know that, you
know, you're keeping yourself safe and not
staying out too long. And then, as you said,
(50:10):
Sarah, eventually you'll know intuitively. But
it's a really great way to get started and stay
on track. I use it all the time. I didn't know
about the bed, like, using it in my bedroom to
make sure it's dark enough. That's a good pro tip.
Sarah Kleiner (50:23):
Your sleeping environment, love it less and a
one. But that evening environment, 10 and below,
three hours getting up to bed. So, yeah, Sarah
and I, when we watch tv, I'll put a pair of blue
blockers over the lens and, like, measure, like.
Okay, we're good. Cover up the skin, watch a
little tv.
Meredith Oke (50:45):
Okay, good. I was gonna ask of, like, what if
you're wearing blue blockers but watching Netflix.
Sarah Kleiner (50:52):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (50:53):
So we're still okay?
Sarah Kleiner (50:55):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (50:55):
And good. All right, well, thanks for jumping on
and sharing all of this. It's going to be so
helpful. And this is such a good episode to share
with your friends who are like, what are you
doing? Why are you wearing those glasses? What's.
What's going on? Where's your SPF 50? You can
(51:16):
just send them this episode. That's what this is
for. And you can follow Sarah, Sarah Kleiner
Wellness on Instagram. She provides tons of super
great information on there. You have a newsletter
and of course, the Circadian app.
Sarah Kleiner (51:33):
Amazing. Thank you for having me. Okay. Yeah,
thank you.
Meredith Oke (51:38):
We'll see you soon.
Sarah Kleiner (51:40):
Alrighty.
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