July 17, 2025 • 63 mins
📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube
"Blue light after dark can really impact your body's natural ability to produce melatonin," says Katie Mant, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective Podcast with her husband Andy to discuss their journey founding Bon Charge, a company dedicated to optimizing sleep and health through light management. The couple shares how they went from experimenting with "safety goggles" in their bedroom to developing stylish blue light blocking glasses that effectively filter specific wavelengths of light. They explain why managing our exposure to artificial light is crucial in today's world, where our ancient circadian rhythms are constantly disrupted by modern technology.
Andy and Katie delve into the science behind light's impact on our biology, discussing how different frequencies of light affect our hormones, sleep quality, and overall well-being. They also explore the benefits of red light therapy for anti-aging and muscle recovery. This episode offers practical insights on how to incorporate light management into daily life without completely disconnecting from the modern world. Tune in to learn how small changes in your light environment can lead to significant improvements in your health and appearance.
5 Key Takeaways
1. Wear blue light blocking glasses 2-3 hours before bed to improve sleep quality by allowing your body to produce melatonin naturally.
2. Get outside for morning sunlight and evening sunset to support your circadian rhythm and overall wellbeing.
3. Try red light therapy for anti-aging benefits and muscle recovery after workouts. The near-infrared light penetrates deep to relax muscles and smooth skin.
4. Make small, sustainable changes rather than overhauling your entire lifestyle. Simple tweaks like changing a lightbulb or wearing blue blockers can have a big impact.
5. Balance modern technology use with ancestral practices. You don't have to give up devices completely, but be intentional about when you use them and protect yourself with blue blocking glasses.
Memorable Quotes
1. "We want to be able to reach people before they get sick. It's great to help people recover, but how do we reach those who are healthy already or starting to go down the slippery slope?" - Andy Mant
2. "There's nothing wrong with the modern world. We're blessed to be in a time of rapid technological advancement. It's just not letting it overrun us, remembering where we've come from, and making sure we blend both." - Katie Mant
3. "When we apply heat after we work out, it enables the muscles to start relaxing, more energy to be produced in the muscular system. As a result, we start to recover faster." - Andy Mant
Connect with Katie & Andy Mant
Website - boncharge.com
Instagram / Andy - https://www.instagram.com/iamandymant
Instagram / Katie - https://www.instagram.com/katiemant_
Resources Mentioned
Bon Charge: https://boncharge.com/
Whoop (fitness tracker): https://www.whoop.com/
Oura Ring (sleep and activity tracker): https://ouraring.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meredith Oke (06:01):
Andy and Katie Mandt, welcome to the QVC podcast.
Katie Mant (06:06):
Hey, how are you doing?
Andy Mant (06:08):
Hey, Meredith, thanks for having us.
Meredith Oke (06:11):
My pleasure, Andy. We had a great chat last time
and I'm super excited to do it again with Katie
in the house.
Katie Mant (06:18):
Yay.
Meredith Oke (06:18):
As the two of you founded this company together.
And Katie, I was actually just listening to you
on a podcast talking about how you both, the two
of you started this sort of like out of your
bedroom while you were both working other jobs
and you ordered these glasses and you were like,
oh my gosh, this is so important. People really
(06:40):
need these. And it just kind of took off.
Katie Mant (06:44):
That is so true.
Meredith Oke (06:45):
Tell me a bit about, like, that's such a fun
journey.
Katie Mant (06:48):
Yeah. Do you know what? It's actually quite funny
as well. It was leading up to our wedding, which
is going on about eight years ago now. Like any
bride and groom, you're trying to get into the
best physique for those photos. So we were like
exercising more, dieting just to sort of get the
best physiques. And it was Andy that decided to
look into sleep and how that impacts what you eat
(07:09):
and your energy levels and how well that you work
out at the gym. And he went down this rabbit
warren reading all the different scientific
studies out there to understand how do you
improve sleep. And then through that, learned
that artificial blue light after dark can really
impact your body's natural ability to produce
melatonin. So Andy started off by ordering a pair
(07:31):
of blue light blocking glasses off a well known
platform. They arrived and oh my gosh, I wish we
took photos that I could share it with the
community. Now they were full on safety goggles
and he'd wear them in the evening watching
Cavity. I thought he was mad. Honestly, I was
like, I have a pair like that.
Meredith Oke (07:49):
They're like the big square plastic orange.
Katie Mant (07:52):
Yeah, it's like orange. Like literally something
out of laboratory. So he started wearing these
off work and I was like, you are a freak. What
are you doing? But his sleep did start to improve
a little bit. So I was like, okay, there is
something here. But the, the signs know that Andy
has kept delving deeper and deeper to understand,
well, why are they working and why are they not
(08:13):
profoundly impacting his sleep? They're only
having a slight impact on it. Learned that
there's very specific wavelengths that need to be
blocked. Not just generic blue light, a very
specific wavelength of blue and some green light,
and then struggles to find any glasses that
actually did block that. So long story short, we
were like, there's an opportunity here. To design
(08:34):
something that's actually stylish that people
would want to wear because there's no way I'd go
out to a restaurant wearing the glasses that he
was wearing, that correct lens that block the
right round frequencies to optimize sleep. And so
the journey sort of evolved from there quite
quickly, to be honest with you. Once we found out
how to develop the, the lens and what needed to
(08:54):
be done, the rest was quite smooth sailing,
wasn't it really? Reaching out to influencers and
people that we were networked with to begin with
to give them a pair to see if they could have,
have a go and report back. And they all reported
back how great they were and how much better than
the original pair that they had. And so we just
launched the brand and, and ran with it. A little
bit blind I guess in the beginning. Just thought,
(09:16):
let's just do it and see. We still had jobs at
the time, so it was a side hustle. So there was
no sort of commitment or impact on us. It was
just a side like passion project that quickly
grew that allowed us to then leave our day jobs
and run it full time and over the years now have
grown it. We've got a team of about 35 staff now.
(09:37):
So it's been an evil.
Meredith Oke (09:39):
That's crazy. Yeah, I think too, I think it's
good. I always say if I knew now what I knew at
the beginning of any given project, I'm like, I
would never have done it. We have to be a little,
a little blind to what we're getting ourselves
into.
Katie Mant (09:55):
Just go with it, go with your gut.
Meredith Oke (09:57):
You just gotta go for it.
Katie Mant (09:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Meredith Oke (10:02):
So Andy, if you could just, you know, I know, I
know everyone listening, I know, you know, but I
don't think we can, I really don't think that we
can hear it too many times, please. And you're so
good at explaining it, Andy. So please tell us
why. Why do we need to block blue light at night?
Andy Mant (10:23):
I know, yeah, it's, it's that double edged sword,
blue light. It's such a fantastic thing when used
correctly and such a bad thing when used
incorrectly. So I always like to go back to how
we were ancestrally. Okay, so hundreds of
thousands of years ago we evolved as you know,
through our life cycle to human beings that we
are now. But one thing that evolved all those
(10:45):
hundreds of thousands of years ago was something
called a body clock, a circadian rhythm. And it's
a little tiny clock system that's in the middle
of our brain. And what it does Is it uses light
to tell your body, your internal mechanisms, what
time of the day it is. And why that's so
important is it allows for certain hormones,
hormones and neurotransmitters to either be
(11:06):
released or suppressed. So as we lived
ancestrally, we live mainly outside, right? So we
would get up in the morning hundreds of thousands
of years ago with the rising sun. And what that
would do is that would tell our body clock, our
circadian rhythm, that it was daytime. And it
knew this because the blue light would stimulate
(11:27):
dopamine, serotonin and cortisol, which are all
really important for us to be active during the
day. We needed to be active during the day
because we needed to go out to hunt, to gather,
and to do what, what we used to do back in those
days. Now, as we were outside all day, the
sunlight actually changes in its spectrum gently
throughout the day and into the, into the
evening. And all those little subtle changes in
(11:50):
light was telling our circadian rhythm what time
of day it was. And to dial things down, dial
hormones up, and just keep us really in hormonal
bliss. And then as the sun set in the evenings,
that would then signal to our clock system that,
okay, blue lights going now, so the evening must
be coming. We need to lower cortisol and we need
(12:12):
to increase the hormone melatonin, which is our
sleep hormone. And then we put the campfire on.
You know, we'd probably sit around there talking
or eating those types of things. And that would
be in the presence of orange and red light, which
has been shown in studies to help increase
melatonin production, which is great. Then we
(12:32):
would go to sleep and we wake up the next morning
and that cycle would continue until we died of
old age or eaten by a saber toothed tiger,
whatever it might have been. But what we've done
now is as we've evolved light, like, you know,
when you go into like say the 1700s and the
1800s, we still would have had that kind of
rhythm and that kind of natural light cues. We
(12:54):
didn't really have artificial light in those
eras. We would have had, you know, moved around
the house with a lantern that was like a candle.
We'd have had candlelight, firelight, things like
that still exist. But it wasn't until recently
that the, the governments and the companies,
they, they invented something called LED lights.
And what they did with these lights is they
(13:15):
stripped out all the red light, most of the
orange light, and they left in the blue light and
some of the green light. And these were put into
our house lights at the time. And what this did
was every, every time the sun would set and we'd
go in and we'd watch telly, which is where LEDs
are, or we turn on our house lights or, or in the
(13:36):
last 20 years, scroll for our smartphone that
still sends light signals to our ancient
circadian rhythm, our ancient body clock. So this
body clock can't distinguish between artificial
and natural light. So what it's doing is these
little artificial suns that are all scattered
around our house or our workplace after sunset is
(13:56):
still telling our body clock that it's evening
time, that it's sorry, that it's daytime, and to
keep cortisol level high and to not have high
levels of melatonin, the sleep hormone. So our
bodies are now believing that we're in perpetual
daylight, there is no darkness anymore because
the light signals aren't stopping after sunset,
which they used to do. So we have to think
(14:19):
ancestrally and go back to how our ancestors used
to live to be able to mimic what they saw, which
is darkness after sunset. So we do that by
wearing the glasses you're wearing now, by
changing some of the lighting in our house, by
powering down electronic devices one to two hours
before bed so our circadian rhythms can actually
(14:40):
understand what time of day it is and to produce
the correct hormones to allow us to sleep better.
Meredith Oke (14:47):
Right. It makes so much sense when you say it and
yet we don't think about it. I mean, the three of
us do and people listening do, but up and you
know, up until we stumbled on this information,
it just doesn't see, it just doesn't occur to
(15:08):
people. And when, you know, I think anyone who's
interested in their health, they understand,
like, okay, if I eat like ultra processed high
sugar foods, that's going to be really difficult
for my body because that's not food found in
nature. I should eat real food. Everyone's like,
oh yeah, totally, that makes sense. But we don't
take that next step and then apply it to all of
(15:29):
the other things that our body is communicating
with.
Andy Mant (15:33):
Yeah, it's so true. It's that whole thing of what
you don't know, you don't know. And there's
probably tons of other things that as humans we
don't know are impacting us from a, you know, a
really negative standpoint. I mean, it's only
until recently that we weren't even thinking
about EMF radiation, you know, like 5G Wi Fi, 4G
(15:55):
cellular towers. And it's, that's really allowing
people to start wake up. Waking up now to, well,
blue light is actually on the EMF spectrum, EMF
radiation, like what I've just discussed there is
on that spectrum. And it's all impacting and
interacting with our cells in a way that the
human body has never had before. Like, we've
(16:16):
evolved for millions of years and the systems
that have evolved within us biologically have
been around for that length of time as well. They
haven't just suddenly evolved in the last 30
years, they've been around for millions of years
in us. And now we're almost creating an
environment where they've evolved that isn't
(16:37):
conducive to how they would function optimally.
You know, it's like, you know, it's like building
a car to ride on tarmac roads and then taking it
down a mountain. It's just not going to work. The
environment is very different. But what we're
doing in this day and age is we're bringing out
these technologies on this electromagnetic
(16:58):
spectrum that human bodies just aren't used to
receiving. And we're almost like this experiment
now of like, well, let's see what happens in the
next 30 years like we did with smoking. Let's see
what happens in the next 30 years like we did
with refined seed oils and low fat diets. And
it's only because, like LED artificial lighting
and the advent of smartphones and backlit LED
(17:21):
devices in the last 20 years that right now we're
starting to see the detrimental effects not just
on us as adults, but on our children as well.
Meredith Oke (17:33):
Yes. And they're getting their screens younger
and younger and they're holding them closer and
closer to their faces. I mean, I remember as a
child, it's like you were like, you got to be six
feet away from the tv. We're all like, why? No
one had an answer. They're like, that's just the
rule.
Katie Mant (17:51):
Yeah, I remember that.
Meredith Oke (17:52):
Yeah.
Andy Mant (17:53):
Or you go blind, I think it was. Or get square
eyes.
Meredith Oke (17:58):
Square eyes. Maybe that's. That was an Australian
thing. That's great. That's funny because. Yeah,
now they, you know, like the. Yeah, they're so,
Their little faces are so close up to them.
Something that I love that you guys did is that
you built, you know, and this was also out of
necessity, I guess, but you really built the
(18:20):
company on top of education and on top of
teaching people about this. So I think it's
really interesting because you've had such
amazing growth. You know, even just to stay
focused on the blue blocking glasses which I'm
wearing, you know, and it's like people were
(18:43):
ready for it, but at the same time, like I'm
still outside of this circle. The only person I
know who wears these, like when I go out in my
normal life like and have meetings with, you
know, I was on a committee at my children's
school and we did zoom meetings at night through
the winter and I rock up in these or go to. And
they were like, what is that? What do you. Why?
(19:07):
So I'm just curious like how you see that
education trajectory playing out in the, in the
public sphere as it's coming out of like the
little biohacking corner that it's been in. It's
growing, but there's still so much more room to
go.
Katie Mant (19:24):
Yeah, there is absolutely. There's not enough
people talking about artificial blue light and
its impact on sleep. And I think there's a long
way still to go on that. You're right. It's how
we started the company. Because when we did come
out with the blue light blocking glasses that we
designed and launched, we, we had a massive
education piece to let people know that first of
all, blue light blocking glasses exist. They're a
(19:46):
thing. We had to let them know that artificial
blue light is bad after dark and it is impacting
your sleep. And then thirdly, had to educate them
on the actual wavelengths that they needed to
block. So it wasn't just a case of they could buy
any blue light blocking glasses. They needed
specific tints, specific lenses that would block
it. So that was kind of how our journey began.
(20:06):
Anyway, it was always education first because it
was such a young industry. And I even think it is
now, years on, more people are understanding how
it impacts sleep. But there is also that
reluctance for people to let go of technology. So
they don't want to sometimes believe that it's
impacting them. I do find that a little bit
because it's how we connect with everybody now,
(20:28):
right? The world is so digitalized, they don't
want to give up their smartphones, their laptops,
their tv. And there is still an element of
ignorance to the fact that it is impacting their
well being and their sleep. Then you have the
others that are ready to listen and ready to
understand and adopt principles like circadian
friendly lighting and artificial or blue light
(20:49):
blocking glasses to block artificial light after
dark. And then the others I think is going to
need more education and more and more touch
points. It's the classic principle, isn't it,
with marketing that they say you need at least 12
different touch points before someone can
understand something and absorb it. So there is
still the journey to be had. And also we're
(21:09):
battling against big tech brands. They don't want
people to sleep. You know, there's that famous
quote that supposedly, I don't know if it's true
or not, that came out from Netflix, where their
mission was to stop people going to sleep. And
that's why it's got that binge culture where they
want you to stay up and keep, basically keep
absorbing. Because the longer you're awake and
the more that you're on technology, the more
(21:29):
you're able to be marketed to and absorbed enough
for you to absorb more information from whatever
message is being pushed on whatever platform. So
there is a bigger piece at play here, really?
From, from my standpoint.
Andy Mant (21:42):
Yeah, I think, I think on top of that as well, it
was Netflix that said that sleep's their biggest
competitor.
Meredith Oke (21:49):
Oh, my God, Netflix.
Andy Mant (21:52):
I know. So that's not great from that standpoint.
But, you know, the thing is, to be able to reach
people, there's got to be a level of them wanting
to help themselves. Right. It's like fitness.
It's like healthy diets. These people aren't
going to be told by you, me, Katie and anyone
else that they need to wear blue light blocking
(22:13):
glasses after sunset or they're going to have,
you know, metabolic issues when they're older.
Because one, they look at it and go, well, I feel
like I'm sleeping. Okay. Two, you know, why would
I want to wear those silly glasses and not watch
all the colors on my favorite TV shows? And
they'd look at it and go, well, this is just
(22:33):
nonsense. The mainstream aren't talking about it,
so it's woo. But those are the things that sort
of come up with the masses. And you've got to,
you've got to want to change. And we've learned
over the years that, you know, we can educate and
we can put information out there that explains
the science, the evidence behind how these
devices will help you from a longevity and
wellbeing standpoint. But if you're not ready to
(22:55):
listen to that, then, you know, you're really
knocking your head against the brick wall, as
they, as they would say. I think one of the
pivotal moments of education moving forward is
probably aligning the brand with trustworthy
sources that are, I guess, in the mainstream
(23:18):
culture at the moment. So, like celebrities, for
instance, trying to get them on board and talking
about these issues because a lot of people that
perhaps aren't ready to be helped will look up to
what these idols are saying and be able to at
least start the conversation. Like the big one
is. There's a big guy in the uk, Simon Cowell.
(23:39):
People in the US know him, but he does all the,
like, oh yeah.
Meredith Oke (23:43):
He, he judges all the talent shows.
Andy Mant (23:45):
Yeah, the talent show, like American Idol, that
type of thing. But in the uk and he's now started
to wear red lens, blue light blocking glasses on
the shows because the lights are giving him
migraine headaches and disrupting his sleep. But
when he wore them, there was no publicity. He
came out to do that because he had any kind of
involvement in the company, but because he was
(24:05):
wearing them, the press, the media started
picking up articles on it. Well, why is he
wearing these glasses? And it starts the
conversation. And I think those are important
moments moving forward. If we want to allow
everyone to understand what the, I guess,
biological impact is on artificial light, on our
health and well being, these people at the top
(24:26):
need to start the conversations and then have
brands around them and educational hubs around
them that then continue that conversation, allow
it to make sense to people.
Meredith Oke (24:37):
Yeah, that really makes sense. And I think that's
true. I've been thinking a lot about how to what
are the ingredients that we need to shift a
paradigm? Because I think right now people are
like, oh, all right, maybe I'll blue light,
whatever. And they see it as a health tip, cold
(25:00):
plunging or something. And it's, it's really to
me much so much more fundamental than that. It's
like if you get into why light matters so much
and what, how our bodies really work it, it's a
completely different way of looking at human
health. And then once you look at human health
differently, you look at the whole universe
(25:21):
differently. So my like, big passion project is
like, okay, so what are the elements required to
make it a paradigm shift and not just a tactic?
And I think the science obviously is an important
piece. Like you need the scientific research,
(25:43):
even though this is ancient, as you were saying,
just how our bodies have worked since the dawn of
time. But what I think is missing is the
storytelling. I was listening to that podcast,
the Telepathy Tapes. I don't know if that got
popular in Australia, but it was. It's about how
(26:04):
the many non verbal autistic children communicate
with each other telepathically. And where am I
going with this? Where I'm going with this is
that there was a scientist who'd been studying
that for years and years and nobody would really
pay much attention to her. And this podcast, this
documentary producer came along and Turned her,
(26:25):
turned her work into a podcast and turned it into
a story. And it one week on the podcast charts at
Beat Joe Rogan, like it was downloaded like a
bajillion times. And I was like, oh, we need the
science needs storytellers. And I think like Andy
and Katie, I think that's what you are. And then
(26:47):
as you were saying, like the more, the more and
the more famous ones we can get, great. But it's
that it's telling the story in a way because then
people can absorb it into their lives. Whereas
just throwing studies at them doesn't land the
same way.
Andy Mant (27:05):
Yeah, 100% right. You got to be able to talk
about, you need to be able to, you know, from our
point of view, understand the studies, read them
and then translate them into actionable sort of
items that people can then incorporate into their
day to day life. Rather than sort of saying, you
(27:27):
know, this study showed that, you know, the
statistical significance in this, that and the
other was whatever, like no one cares. Like,
let's be honest, it's, it's more, it's more like
saying, you know, there's a specific banding of
light, it's found in your laptops and your house
phones. It's going to disrupt your sleep. You've
got two options. Go and live in the middle of the
field and throw away your devices or wear red
lens blue light blocking glasses two to three
(27:48):
hours before bed before you start using them. And
I think it's sort of, when you were talking
there, another thing that sort of came to mind is
a lot of the audience that are into this type of
thing, whether it be blue light blocking glasses,
whether it be red light therapy, whether it be
cold plungers, whatever the holistic protocol may
be is they're already sick, right? They've been
(28:11):
sick, they've had health issues themselves and
they know what it feels like to number one, be
failed by the institution, big pharma, whatever
it may be. But they also understand what it
feels, feels like to not be healthy. And they,
they use those two things in combination, those
two failures to then look at alternatives within,
(28:35):
you know, holistic medicine, well being, maybe
ancestral practices to really, really get their
health back on track as almost a last resort.
Sometimes they've tried everything else,
everything else has failed. And then when they
start doing these basic easy to incorporate
holistic measures like grounding outside,
(28:55):
barefoot, watching the sun rise, wearing blue
light blockers before bed, maybe having a cold
plunge if they've got arthritis, things like
that, maybe they're doing red light Therapy,
really easy protocols. They soon realize that
being healthy isn't very complicated at all. And
it's actually quite easy to do if you're prepared
(29:18):
to change your life very dramatically from what
you've been told and how to be told to live your
life. And living your life closer to as close as
you can to nature and as close as you can to how
we lived ancestrally has profound effects on
one's well being and getting healthy and, or, you
know, even maintaining health. But the big thing
(29:38):
for, for us is we want to be able to reach people
before they get sick. You know, it's great to
help people recover and great to help people
live, you know, a more fulfilling, healthy life
by these, you know, ancient protocols. But how do
we reach the people that are healthy already or
(29:59):
the ones that are starting to go down the
slippery slope of you're not going to be well in
10 to 20 years time because you're eating refined
seed oils, you're not exercising, you're not
lifting weights, you're eating a very refined
processed diet, you're not blocking blue light
after dark, you're not outside enough. How do you
then tell those people that, well, in 20 you
(30:22):
might feel great now, but in 10 to 15, 20 years
you're going to feel like the other people that
are with us now that are healing from, you know,
lifelong issues caused by, you know, eating badly
or not managing that blue light. I guess what I'm
saying is here that the people that are well now,
it's like eating a, eating McDonald's every day
(30:45):
when you're 16 until you're 20, you're not going
to notice really much difference at all. You'll
be all right. You'll probably be a bit
overweight, but maybe you exercise a bit as well.
But if you continue to eat like that for 20
years, you're going to have major metabolic
syndrome and major metabolic issues. And the same
is true with light. You know, people go, well,
I'm falling asleep. Fine. Okay, great. Well,
(31:06):
how's the quality of this sleep? Are you tracking
it on a whoop or an aura or another tracking
device? No. How do you know if your REM and deep
sleep are good? Because it doesn't matter if
you're sleeping well, falling asleep fast, if
you're not getting the restorative deep and REM
sleep that your body needs to recover and clear
out the dead and dying damaged cells over time,
that's going to have a compounding impact on your
(31:28):
health and well being.
Meredith Oke (31:32):
Yeah, it's so true. And and it's like I. So often
I hear people and they're like, oh, okay, all
right, I'm gonna get healthy. And they're like,
I'll just. And they're like, and they're. I. And
what they think that means, it never includes
light and it often includes taking supplements
and eating vegan.
Katie Mant (31:52):
Okay, we see that too much. I know, I think
that's, that's the default setting for getting
healthy, isn't it? Or they go the other route and
they take on too much. They try to take on all
these different practices, do an ice bath every
morning, go for, you know, 20 kilometer runs. And
they take on so much that they actually can't do
it day to day. It becomes, it becomes too much,
(32:14):
it's not sustainable. And then they give up and
they go, nah, being well, it's too hard or
looking after my well being, it takes too much
out of my time. I'm not feeling that I am unwell
right now, so I'll just carry on as I am. And
that's the message that we're trying to put out
there as well. It's not complicated. It's just a
few, few simple tweaks, A lot of them free as
well. You don't have to invest in these big
(32:36):
expensive products. Some of them are just getting
out into the sun in the morning or changing a
bulb, switching one bulb out and putting it
circadian friendly bulb in the lamp that you're
sitting in the evening. They're simple things,
but they really do change their well being.
Meredith Oke (32:51):
Yes. And I love, I try to hammer that message all
the time. Like it doesn't have to be complicated.
And small little things, especially when it comes
to light, make a huge difference. Like just
throwing on those glasses, going outside in the
morning. Like, yeah, it doesn't need to be a
major life overhaul. It makes such a difference.
(33:12):
And I have, you know, over the, over the years,
like I have yet to meet anybody who, who started
wearing blue blockers and didn't notice a
difference. Like I have friends who are like,
who, you know, they're like, they're like, oh
right, I guess, like should, I really should get
them. I'm like, yeah, you really should. And then
(33:35):
they like the next day they're like, oh my God, I
slept so much better like that night.
Andy Mant (33:43):
That's the thing. It's crazy. And it's like, it's
like this, like this whole biohacking, this whole
sort of quantum science when people want to try
and holistically get healthy. Right. It's Very
much a spectrum. You could be at the beginning of
it, you could be at the end of it and be the
ultra biohacker like Brian Johnson, Dave Asprey,
people like that. But it's fine for an individual
(34:05):
to be anywhere along there on their journey. And
the big thing is where I would start off is I
would look at it from a point of view of what
would I like to improve in my life? And that's
what we did. That's how we founded the company.
We looked at our sleep and said, how do we
improve this? And what can I do that isn't
conventional to improve my sleep? Okay, so maybe
(34:29):
someone says, my sleep's not great. Okay, well,
wear blue light blocking glasses two to three
hours before bed and watch the sun rise and your
sleep will improve. Someone could say, I've had
arthritis for years. What could I do that isn't
conventional? To help? Maybe I'm going to have an
ice bath once a day. I'm going to get in there
and have an ice bath and feel amazing. Maybe I'm
(34:51):
going to try red light therapy to help with, with
it. Maybe someone suffers from migraine
headaches, so they change the flickering LED
light bulbs in some of their house lights and
wear light sensitivity glasses when they're
working on a computer. You know, it's kind of
looking at your, looking at your current life and
(35:11):
going, am I optimal? And the answer is always
going to be no. Right? No one's going to get to
that 100%. It's just impossible in the world we
live in. But where would you put yourself out of
10? You know, how do you feel in the mornings?
How do you feel during the day? Are, are you
crashing at 3:00pm? You know, are you struggling
to get to sleep? Little things like that. Pick
one that's a nuance in your life and go, how can
(35:33):
I holistically do something to make myself feel
better? And just try it, because you're not going
to lose either way. It's not as though you're
taking a medication, a pill that may have some
profound and unwanted side effects. You're only
going to try these things and go, oh, you know
what, that worked for me. Or you know what? Cold
(35:54):
plungers aren't for me. I, I literally, my body
cannot get into an ice bath or something like
that. So maybe I'll look at red light therapy
instead for my joints. So it's kind of looking at
it like that. And I think a lot of people like
what Katie was alluding to in alternative health
Biohacking well, being quantum science, I think
they bite off more than they can chew too
quickly. They go full. I don't do anything to
(36:15):
full Dave Asprey in like a day. And it's just
because you've got to have 150 supplements and
you know, 400 hours of red light therapy a day,
which just isn't practical. But there's so many
cool things people can do just to like make those
little incremental 1% improvements and it will
compound over time. It's like investing money.
Right. If you do 1% more every week, you know,
(36:39):
in, in two years you're going to be up at the
Dave Aspirate sort of level. Or you may go in two
years. You know what? I'm fine at 20% because I
feel great. And that's all the time in my life
that allows for it. Because, you know, rather
than biohacking 24 hours a day and sleeping, I
wouldn't mind playing with the kids or the
grandkids or you know, going out for a dinner
with friends and stuff like that, which is all
(37:01):
fine to do. Have that odd glass of wine if that's
what some something you want to do. Life is still
there to be lived and biohacking just needs to be
incorporated into it to just optimize that time
you've got on this planet. So we're aging well.
We're not, you know, adding 10 years of, you
know, I'm going to be sat in a nursing home for
an extra 10 years. Brilliant. That was kind of
(37:21):
not worth the extra 10 years I did biohacking.
You're not, you're going to be living the way
we're living now, into old age and living well
and being mobile. And that's what biohacking does
for you.
Meredith Oke (37:33):
Yes. And it's, it's, yeah, it's, I think that
term reverse aging has come up right where it's
like the, the chronology rolls on. You know,
we're not going to not get older. But yeah, our
bodies don't have to decay in the, in the way
that we thought they did and we don't have to be
(37:55):
these crazy biohackers in order to support the
process. There's so many things to do and it's,
I've been seeing lately, you know, I think, I
mean, I think everyone should do whatever they
want. I don't care. But, but these gurus who do
all the things right, they, people get turned off
and they're like, I'm not doing that, like all
(38:15):
this health stuff is nuts. And I saw, I saw a
post recently from a young woman, I think she
works like in Silicon Valley or something. And
she was like, all right, listen, I talked to one
of those health people and I guess they're not
all crazy because I've been like turning off my
TV and going for more walks. And I don't know,
(38:36):
she had a few things that she did which are all
really good. Basically she's like, and you know
what? I actually feel a lot better. She was sort
of like begrudgingly acknowledging that the
health freaks maybe have a point on something.
But that's what I loved is that you don't, you
know, you don't have to be crazy. My friend Kelly
(38:58):
Ritter did a post recently. She called it like
barefoot and bougie. And she was like, you don't
have to be like an outdoorsman or like an
outdoorsy person, like living off the land to
benefit from, from this. Like, just take your
shoes off sometimes and still like have whatever
kind of life you want.
Andy Mant (39:18):
Yeah, that's super important, you know, and
that's, that makes it relatable, makes it easier
for people to comprehend that, you know, you
don't have to be a mad scientist and you know,
obsessive to be able to get healthy. And you
know, that's, that's super important. And you
know, I think another topic that's, that's well
worth sort of covering as well is a little bit
(39:38):
about red light therapy as well. We're starting
to see, you know, light can be used for so many
different things. Like, like blue lights, great
to keep you alert. Blocking it helps you sleep.
Green light shown in studies to help with
migraines and the symptoms of migraines it seems,
which is, which is fascinating. But red light has
been been shown and the most studied frequency of
(40:00):
light to have a profound effect on all sorts of
different situations like you know, from skin
appearance to joint and muscle pain to weight
loss to sort of skin conditions like eczema,
psoriasis, sleep. You know, it's, it's, it's
absolutely fascinating. And one of our top
(40:23):
selling products in, in red light therapy and our
most top selling product is our red light face
mask. So interesting, like it's utilizing visible
red light at 630 nanometers, the most studied for
reducing the signs of aging and near infrared
light as well. And that's been incredible for
(40:44):
tens of thousands of people in terms of how they
look physically. Yes, that might not be a health
benefit, but it's a mental health benefit on
aging. You Know, the face sure is. You know what
I mean?
Meredith Oke (40:58):
Yeah.
Andy Mant (40:59):
Katie's a great. She uses the red light face mask
like three to four times a week. So maybe you
could talk to the effects that you've seen.
Meredith Oke (41:07):
Yeah, and I wanted to bring that up because we
actually haven't really covered. I'm always
wanting people to sleep better and feel better.
And I was like, you know, we actually haven't
talked about how all this makes you look better.
And I'm not gonna pretend that doesn't matter to
all of us. So. Yeah, Katie, tell us, you know,
tell us how like, like red light can make my.
(41:31):
Make me look younger.
Katie Mant (41:32):
Yeah. Really, there's no shame in saying how we
look matters to us. It does. Like Andy said, it's
your mental well being. You know, when you wake
up in the morning and you look in the mirror, do
you see the person that you feel? And if you
don't, there's a disconnect. And that does play a
role on a lot of people's well being. And it's
(41:54):
been something I've had to challenge as I left
late 30s and moved into 40 the other month. It's
a big transition and you feel a lot younger
inside than how you look. But equally don't want
to go down the route of doing other procedures
that maybe aren't very holistic or, you know, I
want to sort of stay with within modalities that
(42:15):
are going to be okay for my well being long term
as well. And red light therapy has been fantastic
for that because like Andy said, there's two
frequencies, the near infrared and the red. The
red light, that's the color that you see, that
has all of your surface level concerns. So any
fine lines, wrinkles, sort of any imperfections,
any discoloration, your skin tone and texture,
(42:39):
it's great for that overall surface level
appearance. But what near infrared does, and this
is the big one, that really helps with the anti
aging properties. Near infrared goes right
through to your muscles and through down to your
joints. And it is so, so good at relaxing the
muscles. So if you think about relax a muscle,
(42:59):
what that does to the skin, it then relaxes the
skin, which then smooths it out, which is then
reducing the appearance of fine lines and
wrinkles further. So just by relaxing the muscle
itself, it can have an effect visually on the
surface level appearance of your skin. Because
there's other procedures out there that are all
tailored around relaxing muscles. We know what
(43:21):
those are, those injectables. It's the principle
of just stopping the muscle getting so tight.
Because when it gets tight it's pulling on the
skin and creating those creases. But you can do
that holistically with red light therapy, just
relaxing it and doing things like gua sha, you
know, just to sort of keep that muscle relaxed
and then your skin will follow suit, it won't be
so crinkled up which will then reduce the
(43:43):
appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. Again,
it's a very simple principle, but I think a lot
of people don't realize that near infrared does
that and then have to in their eyes resort to
some maybe injectables and things that possibly
aren't suitable long term for the, for their well
being. So Nia and Fred is a great alternative for
that.
Meredith Oke (44:04):
Yes. And it's really like what we were saying
earlier. I've been thinking about this lately,
like the difference between reverse aging and
anti aging. Right. And where you do when you do
chemicals or you inject things or you do
surgeries and it's like you're fighting your body
and it's going to wear off and it's really
(44:25):
expensive and then you got to go into it again
and whereas when we utilize light therapy,
phototherapy, when we harmonize our body and like
everything you just said, relaxing the muscles
naturally were the benefits are compounding over
time. Like our bodies are getting healthier and
(44:48):
better and we look better but underneath like
we're not, we're not adding chemicals and trying
to change ourselves.
Katie Mant (45:00):
Exactly that. And it's exactly that not changing
yourself. You're not wanting to look like a
different person. If you go and have certain
procedures done, you might look like a different
person. It doesn't even look like you when you
were younger. It is a completely different
whereas. What?
Meredith Oke (45:15):
It's weird.
Katie Mant (45:16):
Yeah, right, it is. And a lot of us just want to
look fresh and like we've slept and you know that
the effects of time haven't taken its toll on our
appearance and we just want to look in the mirror
and see reflected back at us who we feel inside.
So. And it's actually quite confronting. I've
heard some, you know, quite sort of challenging
stories from, from people that have gone under
(45:36):
procedures and then it's actually had a worse
effect on their well being because yes, they
might look younger but they no longer identify
with a person that's looking back because it's
completely changed the structure and it doesn't
look like them anymore. So yes, they might have
reduced fine lines and wrinkles and you know,
might look a bit younger. It's not how they
looked when they were younger. And therefore it's
(45:57):
still that disconnect. And it's always that
disconnect. It doesn't feel authentic. And then
when you don't feel authentic, you don't feel
true to yourself. And that just impacts so many
different areas of your life. And there is so
much you can do holistically now for not just
your well being but, but beauty as well. You
know, just, just skincare products themselves,
just checking the ingredients in them. You know,
some of those aren't great for, for the body, you
(46:19):
know, toxins that are in them and the overload
that's going on on the skin. But you know, I
question sometimes whether some products actually
contribute to aging.
Meredith Oke (46:29):
I don't know.
Katie Mant (46:30):
That's not something I've had proven. But it's
things that play in the back of your mind. You
know, it's a bit like the medical industry. You
know, they, they want you to keep taking
medication. You know, it'll have a little bit of
an impact to make you feel better, but you need
to keep taking it in order for it to, to have
long term effects.
Meredith Oke (46:47):
And yeah, they want us medicated in front of
Netflix.
Katie Mant (46:51):
Yeah. Lathering on skincare products that we
think are making us look younger, but actually
it's aging us.
Meredith Oke (46:58):
Yeah. And then going to get Botox because we're
all, we look wrecked.
Katie Mant (47:03):
Yeah, absolutely. There is a better way. Yeah,
there is, there is. And there's freeways just,
you know, getting out into the morning sun,
morning sunrise and sunset. That's the best time
to be out. You know, even if you're not going to
go and do red light therapy with the panels, at
least get the beneficial frequencies in the sun
(47:23):
naturally outside of the peak UV periods for your
skin. That's great as well. The morning morning
sun and evening sun.
Meredith Oke (47:35):
Yeah. There's so much we can do. And I liked what
you said too, you know, about the authenticity
piece. Because what I have found is, you know,
taking this route that we're talking about where
we learn to understand how our bodies really work
and to support that. It makes you feel happier,
it makes you feel more powerful. It makes you
(47:57):
feel like, oh, you know what, I belong on this
planet. I'm not just like spinning out through
some weird like pre, pre made synthetic reality
that I'm just gonna hobble through until I get
sick and die. Like it, I think it, you know, I,
(48:18):
there's a spiritual element to stepping outside,
you know, and as you were saying, like wanting to
understand sunlight and darkness cycles and
Support our lives, lives that way and wean off
technology, especially at night. It's like there
are not a lot of forces that are supportive of
that. They're working against us. And so but when
(48:41):
we connect with it, it's like, oh, this is what
it's supposed to feel like to be alive.
Katie Mant (48:49):
It's very true. It's very true. And there's
nothing wrong with the modern world. There isn't,
you know, blessed to be in a time where, you
know, technology and advancements in anything in
the world are happening at such a rapid rate and
we're to see that, you know, that's great. We
shouldn't take away from that. It's just not
letting it overrun us. Remembering where we have
come from and the short time that we have been as
(49:10):
humans on the planet and making sure we blend the
both and use the little hacks that are available
to us to live in the modern world while still
kind of remembering where we've come from and who
we are at the core. And I think there's, there's
the opportunity to have both. There really is,
you know, otherwise we'd be advocating not having
smartphones, not having TVs, not having laptops
(49:31):
and disconnecting from everything. We don't
advocate that. They're fantastic. We're able to
have this conversation now for the very reason
this technology here. We're just advocates for
the glasses that you're wearing to protect you
whilst you're on the call to us. So there isn't,
it doesn't need to be a fee mongering thing where
it's like forget everything in the modern world.
It's just using it with intent, not being
(49:53):
consumed by it. You know, picking the moments in
your day where you are on social media and maybe
disconnecting the rest of the time and then just
making sure you're looking after your well being
whilst you're in the modern, the modern world.
And it really is as simple as that from my, from
my standpoint anyway.
Meredith Oke (50:10):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I like the modern
world. Yeah, I like living on the grid. I have no
plans to leave. Okay. So I mentioned earlier at
my, at my family dinner tonight, I told my
children, I'm like, oh, I'm interviewing the
founders of Boncharge tonight. So they all, we
(50:32):
have lots of on charge stuff in our house. So
they were all, they all knew what that, knew what
that was. So I made them all come up with a
question for you. So while we're on the red
light, I'll start with My older daughter, who she
just finished her first year at university and at
Christmas I let her bring the Bon Charge sauna
(50:53):
blanket back to school with her. And her friends
were like, what is that? It's weird. And then
they all wanted to borrow it. But she said she,
she started going to the gym a lot more than she
used to and she would come back all shaky and she
would, especially on, on leg days. This is, yeah,
this is what she was saying at dinner. But then
she would put the sauna blanket around and she
(51:15):
said it, she would feel so much better. Better.
So she wanted to know why.
Andy Mant (51:19):
Yeah, absolutely. No, it's a great question. And
it comes all comes down to recovery and how light
can be used to penetrate deep within to the
muscles. So when she's been in the gym, you know,
she's a female, she's going to be working her
lower body constantly. Like that's just how
females do it. Like guys work up the work on the
chest, the girls work on the legs and the glutes.
(51:39):
So she's had a hard day in the gym and she's had
a good session. She's going to have all that
energy sapped out of the muscle. You know,
they're going to be. She would have pushed them
to the point of, you know, failure so she can
grow those muscles which leaves them feeling
wobbly and jelly like after, after an intense
session. So the way infrared sauna works is
(52:03):
different from red light therapy. So it's not
near infrared and it's not red light, it's far
infrared light. So it's used for heating
purposes. Now when you go into a normal sauna,
like a cold sauna, it heats the air around you,
so it just sort of heats the outer part of the
body. Whereas what the far infrared light does,
it penetrates deep into the muscles and starts to
(52:23):
heat within the muscles. It starts to raise the
temperature internally. And what studies have
shown is that when we apply heat, not cold, after
we work out, that enables the muscles to start
relaxing, more energy to be produced in the
muscular system. And when there's more energy
produced in that system, we start to recover
(52:43):
faster. And as a result, those shakes will stop a
lot quicker because we're warming those muscles,
providing more energy for them to heal quickly.
And she'll come out of that sauna blanket and
just, yeah, feel like she can walk again
normally, which is something that wouldn't have
happened that quickly without utilizing far
infrared light for that sort of internal heating
(53:06):
process of the muscle.
Meredith Oke (53:09):
Cool. Thank you. Okay. There's that's the clip
for Millie. All right. So then my younger, my
youngest, her question was, how do you get the
orange glasses? Orange?
Katie Mant (53:25):
Oh, it's quite a process, actually. Actually
takes about a few hours per lens. It's basically
just keep it brief. It's a constant dying. So it
goes in and out of a. Of a bath, I guess you
could call it, of dye, and it sits within there
for, say, 30 minutes. You pull it out, rinse it,
(53:45):
and it just keeps getting repeated until it gets
to the potency that that's needed. But
ultimately, it is a sort of a dye that takes
place in a little bath. It's quite a cute process.
Andy Mant (53:55):
But you don't just have one bath for one pair.
Our lab has, like, multiple baths with multiple
glass lenses in there.
Meredith Oke (54:03):
So the lenses go in the back bath?
Andy Mant (54:05):
Yes. Yeah, they go in the tint bath and then
they. They cook in there for probably about two
to three hours. Then they come out and then they
go into a spectrometer. So the spectrometer tests
the frequencies of light that pass through the
lenses and the ones that don't. So if we pull it
out and we aim for 100% light blocking from 400
(54:28):
to 550 nanometers, which is the. The melatonin
disruption zone, according to the science. And if
it's at 98% or 99%, goes back in the bath for a
few extra minutes to cook a bit more, then it
goes back and it's tested. But 99% of the time,
we know the exact time that each lens needs to be
within the tint bath to achieve the 100% blocking
(54:48):
between those frequencies. So, yeah, they have a
lovely warm bath in a lovely solution, and then
they come out looking like yours.
Meredith Oke (54:57):
That's so funny. That's a good question, Twyla. I
didn't actually know that. So it's like the clear
glass absorbs the color and then depending on how
long you leave it in, all the way up to 100%.
Andy Mant (55:13):
Yes. And if you leave it in for like an hour, it
would look like paler orange all the way up. If
you left it in for, like 10 hours, it would be
bright red and you wouldn't see anything red. But
you have to time it just right. It takes a lot of
experimentation, but we managed to have the
recipe. Now that works really well. And the tin
is developed in partnership with our lab partner
(55:35):
as well. So it's proprietary to our glasses,
which is really good.
Meredith Oke (55:41):
That is so cool. Okay, that was a good one. I
didn't know That I love thinking of all the
little lenses in there.
Katie Mant (55:53):
I like it.
Meredith Oke (55:54):
Yeah. Well, you know, I should get a little bit.
Get the 11 year old to do the podcast questions
going forward. So my son, he succeed. He, he
didn't have a question, but he wanted to say
thank you for using. I don't even know what,
remember what they're called. But the thing that
plugs in, he's like, that's the. He liked it was
(56:16):
the kind that you can use and that it plugs into
anything. You know what I'm talking about? Like
where you go to charge it. What's the little
piece that sticks in called?
Katie Mant (56:27):
Oh, for. On the phones, like the. Is that what
you. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (56:30):
Or on the, on the night lights. We have all the
little clip on night lights.
Katie Mant (56:34):
Oh, yes. Yes.
Meredith Oke (56:36):
That you would plug in to charge them. Yes, that
you can see how technical I am. Right? The thing
that plugs in to charge it.
Katie Mant (56:47):
Okay.
Meredith Oke (56:48):
He was happy because he could use any plug and it
charges.
Andy Mant (56:52):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (56:53):
That was his feedback. That's all I got.
Katie Mant (56:55):
Nice. I'm glad. Yeah. Again, look at him spotting
all these little things.
Meredith Oke (57:00):
I said, are you sure you don't want me to double
check that I'm not overreacting, making you wear
orange glasses and make your turn your screen red
all the time? He's like, no, I believe you. I
actually noticed a difference, Mom. Like, okay.
And then Twyla also wanted to know where you got
the name Bon Charge.
Katie Mant (57:21):
Oh, do you know what? That took what, a year to
18 months? That was a mission. That was an
absolute mission. Because we wanted a name that
reflected the products that we currently had, but
also the vision of where we're going as well. So
it all comes down basically. Bon Charge means
good energy. So we're principled around the fact
that we harness the good energies of nature and
(57:43):
then try and block the bad energies of the modern
day world. So it was all about good energy. But
it was just a lot of brainstorming, a lot of
troubleshooting to find a name that, that worked.
So. Yeah, nothing glamorous really. It was just
me and Andy bouncing names around until we found
one that worked. So I wish there was a more
polished story.
Meredith Oke (58:02):
No, that's a great, I mean, good energy. That's,
that's a good. And it is, it's a cute little
like, it's a good name. It's a good.
Katie Mant (58:10):
I'm glad you like it.
Meredith Oke (58:11):
You did a good job. Yeah, it lands. And it's
funny because whenever I work with, you know,
people who, you know, like my podcast producer or
technical people who don't really know anything
about the content of what I do. They're just
there to help me. A few. A few months in of
listening to all of my. The interviews that I do
and pros, you know, editing all my stuff, they're
(58:33):
like, okay, send me a link for the blue for those
glasses. So I remember I said, my podcast
producer, she. She wrote me back. She's like,
they're not cute. And I was like, okay, try. Try
this one. And I sent her Bon Charge. She was the
(58:57):
ones she was finding. She's like, I understand
why to wear them, but they're not. They don't
have.
Katie Mant (59:01):
They're not cute.
Meredith Oke (59:02):
And I'm like, oh, Bon Charges are cute. So I
don't know if that was you, Katie, or what, but
this woman had like a trend level that she was
not willing to go below even to save herself from
the blue light.
Katie Mant (59:18):
I'm here for that as well.
Meredith Oke (59:20):
So that was. She was happy.
Andy Mant (59:23):
If it was up to me, they'd all be looking like
lab safety goggles. Thanks for them looking cute.
Meredith Oke (59:30):
Yeah, I thought maybe I was like, oh, Andy's.
Yeah, Andy did this with his wife. Maybe that's
why his are so cute. So, yeah, I just wanted to
wrap up. So I alluded to this earlier, but I
really do think that entrepreneurs play such an
important role in the progress of society because
(59:56):
what you identified in order to start this
company was a problem, and now you built a
product to help to solve that problem. In order
to sell the product, you need to educate the
public on that problem. And so we all work
together. And I just want to say that because I
coach a lot of people who. In the health and
(01:00:17):
wellness space, and they just want to help people
and they don't want to charge any money and they
don't want to start. They're like, oh, the
business stuff, oh, I don't know. But I think it
really matters. And I think it's a really
important, crucial piece of creating a healthy
culture to have companies that are rooted in good
stuff. And so I just wanted to say that because I
(01:00:40):
know it's hard.
Katie Mant (01:00:44):
You believe in and you're passionate about it,
and for those people that.
Meredith Oke (01:03:03):
Oh, thanks, Andy. Well, I. I really do love
partnering with you guys. And you run a really
tight ship. You know, your company is really well
run, your marketing is good, all your stuff is
good, and I think that matters. And you're
modeling how to do that in a way that has
integrity and that is overall, you know,
(01:03:25):
contributing to our culture and to our society.
And so good job. Yeah. It was a pleasure to have
you both back on and, you know, to everyone
listening, if you want to dig in more. Andy. I
(01:03:45):
made Andy go really deep on his how to build a
successful business in our first interview. So
circle back and listen to that one. But thank you
both, such a pleasure.
Andy and Katie Mandt, welcome to the QVC podcast.
Katie Mant (06:06):
Hey, how are you doing?
Andy Mant (06:08):
Hey, Meredith, thanks for having us.
Meredith Oke (06:11):
My pleasure, Andy. We had a great chat last time
and I'm super excited to do it again with Katie
in the house.
Katie Mant (06:18):
Yay.
Meredith Oke (06:18):
As the two of you founded this company together.
And Katie, I was actually just listening to you
on a podcast talking about how you both, the two
of you started this sort of like out of your
bedroom while you were both working other jobs
and you ordered these glasses and you were like,
oh my gosh, this is so important. People really
(06:40):
need these. And it just kind of took off.
Katie Mant (06:44):
That is so true.
Meredith Oke (06:45):
Tell me a bit about, like, that's such a fun
journey.
Katie Mant (06:48):
Yeah. Do you know what? It's actually quite funny
as well. It was leading up to our wedding, which
is going on about eight years ago now. Like any
bride and groom, you're trying to get into the
best physique for those photos. So we were like
exercising more, dieting just to sort of get the
best physiques. And it was Andy that decided to
look into sleep and how that impacts what you eat
(07:09):
and your energy levels and how well that you work
out at the gym. And he went down this rabbit
warren reading all the different scientific
studies out there to understand how do you
improve sleep. And then through that, learned
that artificial blue light after dark can really
impact your body's natural ability to produce
melatonin. So Andy started off by ordering a pair
(07:31):
of blue light blocking glasses off a well known
platform. They arrived and oh my gosh, I wish we
took photos that I could share it with the
community. Now they were full on safety goggles
and he'd wear them in the evening watching
Cavity. I thought he was mad. Honestly, I was
like, I have a pair like that.
Meredith Oke (07:49):
They're like the big square plastic orange.
Katie Mant (07:52):
Yeah, it's like orange. Like literally something
out of laboratory. So he started wearing these
off work and I was like, you are a freak. What
are you doing? But his sleep did start to improve
a little bit. So I was like, okay, there is
something here. But the, the signs know that Andy
has kept delving deeper and deeper to understand,
well, why are they working and why are they not
(08:13):
profoundly impacting his sleep? They're only
having a slight impact on it. Learned that
there's very specific wavelengths that need to be
blocked. Not just generic blue light, a very
specific wavelength of blue and some green light,
and then struggles to find any glasses that
actually did block that. So long story short, we
were like, there's an opportunity here. To design
(08:34):
something that's actually stylish that people
would want to wear because there's no way I'd go
out to a restaurant wearing the glasses that he
was wearing, that correct lens that block the
right round frequencies to optimize sleep. And so
the journey sort of evolved from there quite
quickly, to be honest with you. Once we found out
how to develop the, the lens and what needed to
(08:54):
be done, the rest was quite smooth sailing,
wasn't it really? Reaching out to influencers and
people that we were networked with to begin with
to give them a pair to see if they could have,
have a go and report back. And they all reported
back how great they were and how much better than
the original pair that they had. And so we just
launched the brand and, and ran with it. A little
bit blind I guess in the beginning. Just thought,
(09:16):
let's just do it and see. We still had jobs at
the time, so it was a side hustle. So there was
no sort of commitment or impact on us. It was
just a side like passion project that quickly
grew that allowed us to then leave our day jobs
and run it full time and over the years now have
grown it. We've got a team of about 35 staff now.
(09:37):
So it's been an evil.
Meredith Oke (09:39):
That's crazy. Yeah, I think too, I think it's
good. I always say if I knew now what I knew at
the beginning of any given project, I'm like, I
would never have done it. We have to be a little,
a little blind to what we're getting ourselves
into.
Katie Mant (09:55):
Just go with it, go with your gut.
Meredith Oke (09:57):
You just gotta go for it.
Katie Mant (09:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Meredith Oke (10:02):
So Andy, if you could just, you know, I know, I
know everyone listening, I know, you know, but I
don't think we can, I really don't think that we
can hear it too many times, please. And you're so
good at explaining it, Andy. So please tell us
why. Why do we need to block blue light at night?
Andy Mant (10:23):
I know, yeah, it's, it's that double edged sword,
blue light. It's such a fantastic thing when used
correctly and such a bad thing when used
incorrectly. So I always like to go back to how
we were ancestrally. Okay, so hundreds of
thousands of years ago we evolved as you know,
through our life cycle to human beings that we
are now. But one thing that evolved all those
(10:45):
hundreds of thousands of years ago was something
called a body clock, a circadian rhythm. And it's
a little tiny clock system that's in the middle
of our brain. And what it does Is it uses light
to tell your body, your internal mechanisms, what
time of the day it is. And why that's so
important is it allows for certain hormones,
hormones and neurotransmitters to either be
(11:06):
released or suppressed. So as we lived
ancestrally, we live mainly outside, right? So we
would get up in the morning hundreds of thousands
of years ago with the rising sun. And what that
would do is that would tell our body clock, our
circadian rhythm, that it was daytime. And it
knew this because the blue light would stimulate
(11:27):
dopamine, serotonin and cortisol, which are all
really important for us to be active during the
day. We needed to be active during the day
because we needed to go out to hunt, to gather,
and to do what, what we used to do back in those
days. Now, as we were outside all day, the
sunlight actually changes in its spectrum gently
throughout the day and into the, into the
evening. And all those little subtle changes in
(11:50):
light was telling our circadian rhythm what time
of day it was. And to dial things down, dial
hormones up, and just keep us really in hormonal
bliss. And then as the sun set in the evenings,
that would then signal to our clock system that,
okay, blue lights going now, so the evening must
be coming. We need to lower cortisol and we need
(12:12):
to increase the hormone melatonin, which is our
sleep hormone. And then we put the campfire on.
You know, we'd probably sit around there talking
or eating those types of things. And that would
be in the presence of orange and red light, which
has been shown in studies to help increase
melatonin production, which is great. Then we
(12:32):
would go to sleep and we wake up the next morning
and that cycle would continue until we died of
old age or eaten by a saber toothed tiger,
whatever it might have been. But what we've done
now is as we've evolved light, like, you know,
when you go into like say the 1700s and the
1800s, we still would have had that kind of
rhythm and that kind of natural light cues. We
(12:54):
didn't really have artificial light in those
eras. We would have had, you know, moved around
the house with a lantern that was like a candle.
We'd have had candlelight, firelight, things like
that still exist. But it wasn't until recently
that the, the governments and the companies,
they, they invented something called LED lights.
And what they did with these lights is they
(13:15):
stripped out all the red light, most of the
orange light, and they left in the blue light and
some of the green light. And these were put into
our house lights at the time. And what this did
was every, every time the sun would set and we'd
go in and we'd watch telly, which is where LEDs
are, or we turn on our house lights or, or in the
(13:36):
last 20 years, scroll for our smartphone that
still sends light signals to our ancient
circadian rhythm, our ancient body clock. So this
body clock can't distinguish between artificial
and natural light. So what it's doing is these
little artificial suns that are all scattered
around our house or our workplace after sunset is
(13:56):
still telling our body clock that it's evening
time, that it's sorry, that it's daytime, and to
keep cortisol level high and to not have high
levels of melatonin, the sleep hormone. So our
bodies are now believing that we're in perpetual
daylight, there is no darkness anymore because
the light signals aren't stopping after sunset,
which they used to do. So we have to think
(14:19):
ancestrally and go back to how our ancestors used
to live to be able to mimic what they saw, which
is darkness after sunset. So we do that by
wearing the glasses you're wearing now, by
changing some of the lighting in our house, by
powering down electronic devices one to two hours
before bed so our circadian rhythms can actually
(14:40):
understand what time of day it is and to produce
the correct hormones to allow us to sleep better.
Meredith Oke (14:47):
Right. It makes so much sense when you say it and
yet we don't think about it. I mean, the three of
us do and people listening do, but up and you
know, up until we stumbled on this information,
it just doesn't see, it just doesn't occur to
(15:08):
people. And when, you know, I think anyone who's
interested in their health, they understand,
like, okay, if I eat like ultra processed high
sugar foods, that's going to be really difficult
for my body because that's not food found in
nature. I should eat real food. Everyone's like,
oh yeah, totally, that makes sense. But we don't
take that next step and then apply it to all of
(15:29):
the other things that our body is communicating
with.
Andy Mant (15:33):
Yeah, it's so true. It's that whole thing of what
you don't know, you don't know. And there's
probably tons of other things that as humans we
don't know are impacting us from a, you know, a
really negative standpoint. I mean, it's only
until recently that we weren't even thinking
about EMF radiation, you know, like 5G Wi Fi, 4G
(15:55):
cellular towers. And it's, that's really allowing
people to start wake up. Waking up now to, well,
blue light is actually on the EMF spectrum, EMF
radiation, like what I've just discussed there is
on that spectrum. And it's all impacting and
interacting with our cells in a way that the
human body has never had before. Like, we've
(16:16):
evolved for millions of years and the systems
that have evolved within us biologically have
been around for that length of time as well. They
haven't just suddenly evolved in the last 30
years, they've been around for millions of years
in us. And now we're almost creating an
environment where they've evolved that isn't
(16:37):
conducive to how they would function optimally.
You know, it's like, you know, it's like building
a car to ride on tarmac roads and then taking it
down a mountain. It's just not going to work. The
environment is very different. But what we're
doing in this day and age is we're bringing out
these technologies on this electromagnetic
(16:58):
spectrum that human bodies just aren't used to
receiving. And we're almost like this experiment
now of like, well, let's see what happens in the
next 30 years like we did with smoking. Let's see
what happens in the next 30 years like we did
with refined seed oils and low fat diets. And
it's only because, like LED artificial lighting
and the advent of smartphones and backlit LED
(17:21):
devices in the last 20 years that right now we're
starting to see the detrimental effects not just
on us as adults, but on our children as well.
Meredith Oke (17:33):
Yes. And they're getting their screens younger
and younger and they're holding them closer and
closer to their faces. I mean, I remember as a
child, it's like you were like, you got to be six
feet away from the tv. We're all like, why? No
one had an answer. They're like, that's just the
rule.
Katie Mant (17:51):
Yeah, I remember that.
Meredith Oke (17:52):
Yeah.
Andy Mant (17:53):
Or you go blind, I think it was. Or get square
eyes.
Meredith Oke (17:58):
Square eyes. Maybe that's. That was an Australian
thing. That's great. That's funny because. Yeah,
now they, you know, like the. Yeah, they're so,
Their little faces are so close up to them.
Something that I love that you guys did is that
you built, you know, and this was also out of
necessity, I guess, but you really built the
(18:20):
company on top of education and on top of
teaching people about this. So I think it's
really interesting because you've had such
amazing growth. You know, even just to stay
focused on the blue blocking glasses which I'm
wearing, you know, and it's like people were
(18:43):
ready for it, but at the same time, like I'm
still outside of this circle. The only person I
know who wears these, like when I go out in my
normal life like and have meetings with, you
know, I was on a committee at my children's
school and we did zoom meetings at night through
the winter and I rock up in these or go to. And
they were like, what is that? What do you. Why?
(19:07):
So I'm just curious like how you see that
education trajectory playing out in the, in the
public sphere as it's coming out of like the
little biohacking corner that it's been in. It's
growing, but there's still so much more room to
go.
Katie Mant (19:24):
Yeah, there is absolutely. There's not enough
people talking about artificial blue light and
its impact on sleep. And I think there's a long
way still to go on that. You're right. It's how
we started the company. Because when we did come
out with the blue light blocking glasses that we
designed and launched, we, we had a massive
education piece to let people know that first of
all, blue light blocking glasses exist. They're a
(19:46):
thing. We had to let them know that artificial
blue light is bad after dark and it is impacting
your sleep. And then thirdly, had to educate them
on the actual wavelengths that they needed to
block. So it wasn't just a case of they could buy
any blue light blocking glasses. They needed
specific tints, specific lenses that would block
it. So that was kind of how our journey began.
(20:06):
Anyway, it was always education first because it
was such a young industry. And I even think it is
now, years on, more people are understanding how
it impacts sleep. But there is also that
reluctance for people to let go of technology. So
they don't want to sometimes believe that it's
impacting them. I do find that a little bit
because it's how we connect with everybody now,
(20:28):
right? The world is so digitalized, they don't
want to give up their smartphones, their laptops,
their tv. And there is still an element of
ignorance to the fact that it is impacting their
well being and their sleep. Then you have the
others that are ready to listen and ready to
understand and adopt principles like circadian
friendly lighting and artificial or blue light
(20:49):
blocking glasses to block artificial light after
dark. And then the others I think is going to
need more education and more and more touch
points. It's the classic principle, isn't it,
with marketing that they say you need at least 12
different touch points before someone can
understand something and absorb it. So there is
still the journey to be had. And also we're
(21:09):
battling against big tech brands. They don't want
people to sleep. You know, there's that famous
quote that supposedly, I don't know if it's true
or not, that came out from Netflix, where their
mission was to stop people going to sleep. And
that's why it's got that binge culture where they
want you to stay up and keep, basically keep
absorbing. Because the longer you're awake and
the more that you're on technology, the more
(21:29):
you're able to be marketed to and absorbed enough
for you to absorb more information from whatever
message is being pushed on whatever platform. So
there is a bigger piece at play here, really?
From, from my standpoint.
Andy Mant (21:42):
Yeah, I think, I think on top of that as well, it
was Netflix that said that sleep's their biggest
competitor.
Meredith Oke (21:49):
Oh, my God, Netflix.
Andy Mant (21:52):
I know. So that's not great from that standpoint.
But, you know, the thing is, to be able to reach
people, there's got to be a level of them wanting
to help themselves. Right. It's like fitness.
It's like healthy diets. These people aren't
going to be told by you, me, Katie and anyone
else that they need to wear blue light blocking
(22:13):
glasses after sunset or they're going to have,
you know, metabolic issues when they're older.
Because one, they look at it and go, well, I feel
like I'm sleeping. Okay. Two, you know, why would
I want to wear those silly glasses and not watch
all the colors on my favorite TV shows? And
they'd look at it and go, well, this is just
(22:33):
nonsense. The mainstream aren't talking about it,
so it's woo. But those are the things that sort
of come up with the masses. And you've got to,
you've got to want to change. And we've learned
over the years that, you know, we can educate and
we can put information out there that explains
the science, the evidence behind how these
devices will help you from a longevity and
wellbeing standpoint. But if you're not ready to
(22:55):
listen to that, then, you know, you're really
knocking your head against the brick wall, as
they, as they would say. I think one of the
pivotal moments of education moving forward is
probably aligning the brand with trustworthy
sources that are, I guess, in the mainstream
(23:18):
culture at the moment. So, like celebrities, for
instance, trying to get them on board and talking
about these issues because a lot of people that
perhaps aren't ready to be helped will look up to
what these idols are saying and be able to at
least start the conversation. Like the big one
is. There's a big guy in the uk, Simon Cowell.
(23:39):
People in the US know him, but he does all the,
like, oh yeah.
Meredith Oke (23:43):
He, he judges all the talent shows.
Andy Mant (23:45):
Yeah, the talent show, like American Idol, that
type of thing. But in the uk and he's now started
to wear red lens, blue light blocking glasses on
the shows because the lights are giving him
migraine headaches and disrupting his sleep. But
when he wore them, there was no publicity. He
came out to do that because he had any kind of
involvement in the company, but because he was
(24:05):
wearing them, the press, the media started
picking up articles on it. Well, why is he
wearing these glasses? And it starts the
conversation. And I think those are important
moments moving forward. If we want to allow
everyone to understand what the, I guess,
biological impact is on artificial light, on our
health and well being, these people at the top
(24:26):
need to start the conversations and then have
brands around them and educational hubs around
them that then continue that conversation, allow
it to make sense to people.
Meredith Oke (24:37):
Yeah, that really makes sense. And I think that's
true. I've been thinking a lot about how to what
are the ingredients that we need to shift a
paradigm? Because I think right now people are
like, oh, all right, maybe I'll blue light,
whatever. And they see it as a health tip, cold
(25:00):
plunging or something. And it's, it's really to
me much so much more fundamental than that. It's
like if you get into why light matters so much
and what, how our bodies really work it, it's a
completely different way of looking at human
health. And then once you look at human health
differently, you look at the whole universe
(25:21):
differently. So my like, big passion project is
like, okay, so what are the elements required to
make it a paradigm shift and not just a tactic?
And I think the science obviously is an important
piece. Like you need the scientific research,
(25:43):
even though this is ancient, as you were saying,
just how our bodies have worked since the dawn of
time. But what I think is missing is the
storytelling. I was listening to that podcast,
the Telepathy Tapes. I don't know if that got
popular in Australia, but it was. It's about how
(26:04):
the many non verbal autistic children communicate
with each other telepathically. And where am I
going with this? Where I'm going with this is
that there was a scientist who'd been studying
that for years and years and nobody would really
pay much attention to her. And this podcast, this
documentary producer came along and Turned her,
(26:25):
turned her work into a podcast and turned it into
a story. And it one week on the podcast charts at
Beat Joe Rogan, like it was downloaded like a
bajillion times. And I was like, oh, we need the
science needs storytellers. And I think like Andy
and Katie, I think that's what you are. And then
(26:47):
as you were saying, like the more, the more and
the more famous ones we can get, great. But it's
that it's telling the story in a way because then
people can absorb it into their lives. Whereas
just throwing studies at them doesn't land the
same way.
Andy Mant (27:05):
Yeah, 100% right. You got to be able to talk
about, you need to be able to, you know, from our
point of view, understand the studies, read them
and then translate them into actionable sort of
items that people can then incorporate into their
day to day life. Rather than sort of saying, you
(27:27):
know, this study showed that, you know, the
statistical significance in this, that and the
other was whatever, like no one cares. Like,
let's be honest, it's, it's more, it's more like
saying, you know, there's a specific banding of
light, it's found in your laptops and your house
phones. It's going to disrupt your sleep. You've
got two options. Go and live in the middle of the
field and throw away your devices or wear red
lens blue light blocking glasses two to three
(27:48):
hours before bed before you start using them. And
I think it's sort of, when you were talking
there, another thing that sort of came to mind is
a lot of the audience that are into this type of
thing, whether it be blue light blocking glasses,
whether it be red light therapy, whether it be
cold plungers, whatever the holistic protocol may
be is they're already sick, right? They've been
(28:11):
sick, they've had health issues themselves and
they know what it feels like to number one, be
failed by the institution, big pharma, whatever
it may be. But they also understand what it
feels, feels like to not be healthy. And they,
they use those two things in combination, those
two failures to then look at alternatives within,
(28:35):
you know, holistic medicine, well being, maybe
ancestral practices to really, really get their
health back on track as almost a last resort.
Sometimes they've tried everything else,
everything else has failed. And then when they
start doing these basic easy to incorporate
holistic measures like grounding outside,
(28:55):
barefoot, watching the sun rise, wearing blue
light blockers before bed, maybe having a cold
plunge if they've got arthritis, things like
that, maybe they're doing red light Therapy,
really easy protocols. They soon realize that
being healthy isn't very complicated at all. And
it's actually quite easy to do if you're prepared
(29:18):
to change your life very dramatically from what
you've been told and how to be told to live your
life. And living your life closer to as close as
you can to nature and as close as you can to how
we lived ancestrally has profound effects on
one's well being and getting healthy and, or, you
know, even maintaining health. But the big thing
(29:38):
for, for us is we want to be able to reach people
before they get sick. You know, it's great to
help people recover and great to help people
live, you know, a more fulfilling, healthy life
by these, you know, ancient protocols. But how do
we reach the people that are healthy already or
(29:59):
the ones that are starting to go down the
slippery slope of you're not going to be well in
10 to 20 years time because you're eating refined
seed oils, you're not exercising, you're not
lifting weights, you're eating a very refined
processed diet, you're not blocking blue light
after dark, you're not outside enough. How do you
then tell those people that, well, in 20 you
(30:22):
might feel great now, but in 10 to 15, 20 years
you're going to feel like the other people that
are with us now that are healing from, you know,
lifelong issues caused by, you know, eating badly
or not managing that blue light. I guess what I'm
saying is here that the people that are well now,
it's like eating a, eating McDonald's every day
(30:45):
when you're 16 until you're 20, you're not going
to notice really much difference at all. You'll
be all right. You'll probably be a bit
overweight, but maybe you exercise a bit as well.
But if you continue to eat like that for 20
years, you're going to have major metabolic
syndrome and major metabolic issues. And the same
is true with light. You know, people go, well,
I'm falling asleep. Fine. Okay, great. Well,
(31:06):
how's the quality of this sleep? Are you tracking
it on a whoop or an aura or another tracking
device? No. How do you know if your REM and deep
sleep are good? Because it doesn't matter if
you're sleeping well, falling asleep fast, if
you're not getting the restorative deep and REM
sleep that your body needs to recover and clear
out the dead and dying damaged cells over time,
that's going to have a compounding impact on your
(31:28):
health and well being.
Meredith Oke (31:32):
Yeah, it's so true. And and it's like I. So often
I hear people and they're like, oh, okay, all
right, I'm gonna get healthy. And they're like,
I'll just. And they're like, and they're. I. And
what they think that means, it never includes
light and it often includes taking supplements
and eating vegan.
Katie Mant (31:52):
Okay, we see that too much. I know, I think
that's, that's the default setting for getting
healthy, isn't it? Or they go the other route and
they take on too much. They try to take on all
these different practices, do an ice bath every
morning, go for, you know, 20 kilometer runs. And
they take on so much that they actually can't do
it day to day. It becomes, it becomes too much,
(32:14):
it's not sustainable. And then they give up and
they go, nah, being well, it's too hard or
looking after my well being, it takes too much
out of my time. I'm not feeling that I am unwell
right now, so I'll just carry on as I am. And
that's the message that we're trying to put out
there as well. It's not complicated. It's just a
few, few simple tweaks, A lot of them free as
well. You don't have to invest in these big
(32:36):
expensive products. Some of them are just getting
out into the sun in the morning or changing a
bulb, switching one bulb out and putting it
circadian friendly bulb in the lamp that you're
sitting in the evening. They're simple things,
but they really do change their well being.
Meredith Oke (32:51):
Yes. And I love, I try to hammer that message all
the time. Like it doesn't have to be complicated.
And small little things, especially when it comes
to light, make a huge difference. Like just
throwing on those glasses, going outside in the
morning. Like, yeah, it doesn't need to be a
major life overhaul. It makes such a difference.
(33:12):
And I have, you know, over the, over the years,
like I have yet to meet anybody who, who started
wearing blue blockers and didn't notice a
difference. Like I have friends who are like,
who, you know, they're like, they're like, oh
right, I guess, like should, I really should get
them. I'm like, yeah, you really should. And then
(33:35):
they like the next day they're like, oh my God, I
slept so much better like that night.
Andy Mant (33:43):
That's the thing. It's crazy. And it's like, it's
like this, like this whole biohacking, this whole
sort of quantum science when people want to try
and holistically get healthy. Right. It's Very
much a spectrum. You could be at the beginning of
it, you could be at the end of it and be the
ultra biohacker like Brian Johnson, Dave Asprey,
people like that. But it's fine for an individual
(34:05):
to be anywhere along there on their journey. And
the big thing is where I would start off is I
would look at it from a point of view of what
would I like to improve in my life? And that's
what we did. That's how we founded the company.
We looked at our sleep and said, how do we
improve this? And what can I do that isn't
conventional to improve my sleep? Okay, so maybe
(34:29):
someone says, my sleep's not great. Okay, well,
wear blue light blocking glasses two to three
hours before bed and watch the sun rise and your
sleep will improve. Someone could say, I've had
arthritis for years. What could I do that isn't
conventional? To help? Maybe I'm going to have an
ice bath once a day. I'm going to get in there
and have an ice bath and feel amazing. Maybe I'm
(34:51):
going to try red light therapy to help with, with
it. Maybe someone suffers from migraine
headaches, so they change the flickering LED
light bulbs in some of their house lights and
wear light sensitivity glasses when they're
working on a computer. You know, it's kind of
looking at your, looking at your current life and
(35:11):
going, am I optimal? And the answer is always
going to be no. Right? No one's going to get to
that 100%. It's just impossible in the world we
live in. But where would you put yourself out of
10? You know, how do you feel in the mornings?
How do you feel during the day? Are, are you
crashing at 3:00pm? You know, are you struggling
to get to sleep? Little things like that. Pick
one that's a nuance in your life and go, how can
(35:33):
I holistically do something to make myself feel
better? And just try it, because you're not going
to lose either way. It's not as though you're
taking a medication, a pill that may have some
profound and unwanted side effects. You're only
going to try these things and go, oh, you know
what, that worked for me. Or you know what? Cold
(35:54):
plungers aren't for me. I, I literally, my body
cannot get into an ice bath or something like
that. So maybe I'll look at red light therapy
instead for my joints. So it's kind of looking at
it like that. And I think a lot of people like
what Katie was alluding to in alternative health
Biohacking well, being quantum science, I think
they bite off more than they can chew too
quickly. They go full. I don't do anything to
(36:15):
full Dave Asprey in like a day. And it's just
because you've got to have 150 supplements and
you know, 400 hours of red light therapy a day,
which just isn't practical. But there's so many
cool things people can do just to like make those
little incremental 1% improvements and it will
compound over time. It's like investing money.
Right. If you do 1% more every week, you know,
(36:39):
in, in two years you're going to be up at the
Dave Aspirate sort of level. Or you may go in two
years. You know what? I'm fine at 20% because I
feel great. And that's all the time in my life
that allows for it. Because, you know, rather
than biohacking 24 hours a day and sleeping, I
wouldn't mind playing with the kids or the
grandkids or you know, going out for a dinner
with friends and stuff like that, which is all
(37:01):
fine to do. Have that odd glass of wine if that's
what some something you want to do. Life is still
there to be lived and biohacking just needs to be
incorporated into it to just optimize that time
you've got on this planet. So we're aging well.
We're not, you know, adding 10 years of, you
know, I'm going to be sat in a nursing home for
an extra 10 years. Brilliant. That was kind of
(37:21):
not worth the extra 10 years I did biohacking.
You're not, you're going to be living the way
we're living now, into old age and living well
and being mobile. And that's what biohacking does
for you.
Meredith Oke (37:33):
Yes. And it's, it's, yeah, it's, I think that
term reverse aging has come up right where it's
like the, the chronology rolls on. You know,
we're not going to not get older. But yeah, our
bodies don't have to decay in the, in the way
that we thought they did and we don't have to be
(37:55):
these crazy biohackers in order to support the
process. There's so many things to do and it's,
I've been seeing lately, you know, I think, I
mean, I think everyone should do whatever they
want. I don't care. But, but these gurus who do
all the things right, they, people get turned off
and they're like, I'm not doing that, like all
(38:15):
this health stuff is nuts. And I saw, I saw a
post recently from a young woman, I think she
works like in Silicon Valley or something. And
she was like, all right, listen, I talked to one
of those health people and I guess they're not
all crazy because I've been like turning off my
TV and going for more walks. And I don't know,
(38:36):
she had a few things that she did which are all
really good. Basically she's like, and you know
what? I actually feel a lot better. She was sort
of like begrudgingly acknowledging that the
health freaks maybe have a point on something.
But that's what I loved is that you don't, you
know, you don't have to be crazy. My friend Kelly
(38:58):
Ritter did a post recently. She called it like
barefoot and bougie. And she was like, you don't
have to be like an outdoorsman or like an
outdoorsy person, like living off the land to
benefit from, from this. Like, just take your
shoes off sometimes and still like have whatever
kind of life you want.
Andy Mant (39:18):
Yeah, that's super important, you know, and
that's, that makes it relatable, makes it easier
for people to comprehend that, you know, you
don't have to be a mad scientist and you know,
obsessive to be able to get healthy. And you
know, that's, that's super important. And you
know, I think another topic that's, that's well
worth sort of covering as well is a little bit
(39:38):
about red light therapy as well. We're starting
to see, you know, light can be used for so many
different things. Like, like blue lights, great
to keep you alert. Blocking it helps you sleep.
Green light shown in studies to help with
migraines and the symptoms of migraines it seems,
which is, which is fascinating. But red light has
been been shown and the most studied frequency of
(40:00):
light to have a profound effect on all sorts of
different situations like you know, from skin
appearance to joint and muscle pain to weight
loss to sort of skin conditions like eczema,
psoriasis, sleep. You know, it's, it's, it's
absolutely fascinating. And one of our top
(40:23):
selling products in, in red light therapy and our
most top selling product is our red light face
mask. So interesting, like it's utilizing visible
red light at 630 nanometers, the most studied for
reducing the signs of aging and near infrared
light as well. And that's been incredible for
(40:44):
tens of thousands of people in terms of how they
look physically. Yes, that might not be a health
benefit, but it's a mental health benefit on
aging. You Know, the face sure is. You know what
I mean?
Meredith Oke (40:58):
Yeah.
Andy Mant (40:59):
Katie's a great. She uses the red light face mask
like three to four times a week. So maybe you
could talk to the effects that you've seen.
Meredith Oke (41:07):
Yeah, and I wanted to bring that up because we
actually haven't really covered. I'm always
wanting people to sleep better and feel better.
And I was like, you know, we actually haven't
talked about how all this makes you look better.
And I'm not gonna pretend that doesn't matter to
all of us. So. Yeah, Katie, tell us, you know,
tell us how like, like red light can make my.
(41:31):
Make me look younger.
Katie Mant (41:32):
Yeah. Really, there's no shame in saying how we
look matters to us. It does. Like Andy said, it's
your mental well being. You know, when you wake
up in the morning and you look in the mirror, do
you see the person that you feel? And if you
don't, there's a disconnect. And that does play a
role on a lot of people's well being. And it's
(41:54):
been something I've had to challenge as I left
late 30s and moved into 40 the other month. It's
a big transition and you feel a lot younger
inside than how you look. But equally don't want
to go down the route of doing other procedures
that maybe aren't very holistic or, you know, I
want to sort of stay with within modalities that
(42:15):
are going to be okay for my well being long term
as well. And red light therapy has been fantastic
for that because like Andy said, there's two
frequencies, the near infrared and the red. The
red light, that's the color that you see, that
has all of your surface level concerns. So any
fine lines, wrinkles, sort of any imperfections,
any discoloration, your skin tone and texture,
(42:39):
it's great for that overall surface level
appearance. But what near infrared does, and this
is the big one, that really helps with the anti
aging properties. Near infrared goes right
through to your muscles and through down to your
joints. And it is so, so good at relaxing the
muscles. So if you think about relax a muscle,
(42:59):
what that does to the skin, it then relaxes the
skin, which then smooths it out, which is then
reducing the appearance of fine lines and
wrinkles further. So just by relaxing the muscle
itself, it can have an effect visually on the
surface level appearance of your skin. Because
there's other procedures out there that are all
tailored around relaxing muscles. We know what
(43:21):
those are, those injectables. It's the principle
of just stopping the muscle getting so tight.
Because when it gets tight it's pulling on the
skin and creating those creases. But you can do
that holistically with red light therapy, just
relaxing it and doing things like gua sha, you
know, just to sort of keep that muscle relaxed
and then your skin will follow suit, it won't be
so crinkled up which will then reduce the
(43:43):
appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. Again,
it's a very simple principle, but I think a lot
of people don't realize that near infrared does
that and then have to in their eyes resort to
some maybe injectables and things that possibly
aren't suitable long term for the, for their well
being. So Nia and Fred is a great alternative for
that.
Meredith Oke (44:04):
Yes. And it's really like what we were saying
earlier. I've been thinking about this lately,
like the difference between reverse aging and
anti aging. Right. And where you do when you do
chemicals or you inject things or you do
surgeries and it's like you're fighting your body
and it's going to wear off and it's really
(44:25):
expensive and then you got to go into it again
and whereas when we utilize light therapy,
phototherapy, when we harmonize our body and like
everything you just said, relaxing the muscles
naturally were the benefits are compounding over
time. Like our bodies are getting healthier and
(44:48):
better and we look better but underneath like
we're not, we're not adding chemicals and trying
to change ourselves.
Katie Mant (45:00):
Exactly that. And it's exactly that not changing
yourself. You're not wanting to look like a
different person. If you go and have certain
procedures done, you might look like a different
person. It doesn't even look like you when you
were younger. It is a completely different
whereas. What?
Meredith Oke (45:15):
It's weird.
Katie Mant (45:16):
Yeah, right, it is. And a lot of us just want to
look fresh and like we've slept and you know that
the effects of time haven't taken its toll on our
appearance and we just want to look in the mirror
and see reflected back at us who we feel inside.
So. And it's actually quite confronting. I've
heard some, you know, quite sort of challenging
stories from, from people that have gone under
(45:36):
procedures and then it's actually had a worse
effect on their well being because yes, they
might look younger but they no longer identify
with a person that's looking back because it's
completely changed the structure and it doesn't
look like them anymore. So yes, they might have
reduced fine lines and wrinkles and you know,
might look a bit younger. It's not how they
looked when they were younger. And therefore it's
(45:57):
still that disconnect. And it's always that
disconnect. It doesn't feel authentic. And then
when you don't feel authentic, you don't feel
true to yourself. And that just impacts so many
different areas of your life. And there is so
much you can do holistically now for not just
your well being but, but beauty as well. You
know, just, just skincare products themselves,
just checking the ingredients in them. You know,
some of those aren't great for, for the body, you
(46:19):
know, toxins that are in them and the overload
that's going on on the skin. But you know, I
question sometimes whether some products actually
contribute to aging.
Meredith Oke (46:29):
I don't know.
Katie Mant (46:30):
That's not something I've had proven. But it's
things that play in the back of your mind. You
know, it's a bit like the medical industry. You
know, they, they want you to keep taking
medication. You know, it'll have a little bit of
an impact to make you feel better, but you need
to keep taking it in order for it to, to have
long term effects.
Meredith Oke (46:47):
And yeah, they want us medicated in front of
Netflix.
Katie Mant (46:51):
Yeah. Lathering on skincare products that we
think are making us look younger, but actually
it's aging us.
Meredith Oke (46:58):
Yeah. And then going to get Botox because we're
all, we look wrecked.
Katie Mant (47:03):
Yeah, absolutely. There is a better way. Yeah,
there is, there is. And there's freeways just,
you know, getting out into the morning sun,
morning sunrise and sunset. That's the best time
to be out. You know, even if you're not going to
go and do red light therapy with the panels, at
least get the beneficial frequencies in the sun
(47:23):
naturally outside of the peak UV periods for your
skin. That's great as well. The morning morning
sun and evening sun.
Meredith Oke (47:35):
Yeah. There's so much we can do. And I liked what
you said too, you know, about the authenticity
piece. Because what I have found is, you know,
taking this route that we're talking about where
we learn to understand how our bodies really work
and to support that. It makes you feel happier,
it makes you feel more powerful. It makes you
(47:57):
feel like, oh, you know what, I belong on this
planet. I'm not just like spinning out through
some weird like pre, pre made synthetic reality
that I'm just gonna hobble through until I get
sick and die. Like it, I think it, you know, I,
(48:18):
there's a spiritual element to stepping outside,
you know, and as you were saying, like wanting to
understand sunlight and darkness cycles and
Support our lives, lives that way and wean off
technology, especially at night. It's like there
are not a lot of forces that are supportive of
that. They're working against us. And so but when
(48:41):
we connect with it, it's like, oh, this is what
it's supposed to feel like to be alive.
Katie Mant (48:49):
It's very true. It's very true. And there's
nothing wrong with the modern world. There isn't,
you know, blessed to be in a time where, you
know, technology and advancements in anything in
the world are happening at such a rapid rate and
we're to see that, you know, that's great. We
shouldn't take away from that. It's just not
letting it overrun us. Remembering where we have
come from and the short time that we have been as
(49:10):
humans on the planet and making sure we blend the
both and use the little hacks that are available
to us to live in the modern world while still
kind of remembering where we've come from and who
we are at the core. And I think there's, there's
the opportunity to have both. There really is,
you know, otherwise we'd be advocating not having
smartphones, not having TVs, not having laptops
(49:31):
and disconnecting from everything. We don't
advocate that. They're fantastic. We're able to
have this conversation now for the very reason
this technology here. We're just advocates for
the glasses that you're wearing to protect you
whilst you're on the call to us. So there isn't,
it doesn't need to be a fee mongering thing where
it's like forget everything in the modern world.
It's just using it with intent, not being
(49:53):
consumed by it. You know, picking the moments in
your day where you are on social media and maybe
disconnecting the rest of the time and then just
making sure you're looking after your well being
whilst you're in the modern, the modern world.
And it really is as simple as that from my, from
my standpoint anyway.
Meredith Oke (50:10):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I like the modern
world. Yeah, I like living on the grid. I have no
plans to leave. Okay. So I mentioned earlier at
my, at my family dinner tonight, I told my
children, I'm like, oh, I'm interviewing the
founders of Boncharge tonight. So they all, we
(50:32):
have lots of on charge stuff in our house. So
they were all, they all knew what that, knew what
that was. So I made them all come up with a
question for you. So while we're on the red
light, I'll start with My older daughter, who she
just finished her first year at university and at
Christmas I let her bring the Bon Charge sauna
(50:53):
blanket back to school with her. And her friends
were like, what is that? It's weird. And then
they all wanted to borrow it. But she said she,
she started going to the gym a lot more than she
used to and she would come back all shaky and she
would, especially on, on leg days. This is, yeah,
this is what she was saying at dinner. But then
she would put the sauna blanket around and she
(51:15):
said it, she would feel so much better. Better.
So she wanted to know why.
Andy Mant (51:19):
Yeah, absolutely. No, it's a great question. And
it comes all comes down to recovery and how light
can be used to penetrate deep within to the
muscles. So when she's been in the gym, you know,
she's a female, she's going to be working her
lower body constantly. Like that's just how
females do it. Like guys work up the work on the
chest, the girls work on the legs and the glutes.
(51:39):
So she's had a hard day in the gym and she's had
a good session. She's going to have all that
energy sapped out of the muscle. You know,
they're going to be. She would have pushed them
to the point of, you know, failure so she can
grow those muscles which leaves them feeling
wobbly and jelly like after, after an intense
session. So the way infrared sauna works is
(52:03):
different from red light therapy. So it's not
near infrared and it's not red light, it's far
infrared light. So it's used for heating
purposes. Now when you go into a normal sauna,
like a cold sauna, it heats the air around you,
so it just sort of heats the outer part of the
body. Whereas what the far infrared light does,
it penetrates deep into the muscles and starts to
(52:23):
heat within the muscles. It starts to raise the
temperature internally. And what studies have
shown is that when we apply heat, not cold, after
we work out, that enables the muscles to start
relaxing, more energy to be produced in the
muscular system. And when there's more energy
produced in that system, we start to recover
(52:43):
faster. And as a result, those shakes will stop a
lot quicker because we're warming those muscles,
providing more energy for them to heal quickly.
And she'll come out of that sauna blanket and
just, yeah, feel like she can walk again
normally, which is something that wouldn't have
happened that quickly without utilizing far
infrared light for that sort of internal heating
(53:06):
process of the muscle.
Meredith Oke (53:09):
Cool. Thank you. Okay. There's that's the clip
for Millie. All right. So then my younger, my
youngest, her question was, how do you get the
orange glasses? Orange?
Katie Mant (53:25):
Oh, it's quite a process, actually. Actually
takes about a few hours per lens. It's basically
just keep it brief. It's a constant dying. So it
goes in and out of a. Of a bath, I guess you
could call it, of dye, and it sits within there
for, say, 30 minutes. You pull it out, rinse it,
(53:45):
and it just keeps getting repeated until it gets
to the potency that that's needed. But
ultimately, it is a sort of a dye that takes
place in a little bath. It's quite a cute process.
Andy Mant (53:55):
But you don't just have one bath for one pair.
Our lab has, like, multiple baths with multiple
glass lenses in there.
Meredith Oke (54:03):
So the lenses go in the back bath?
Andy Mant (54:05):
Yes. Yeah, they go in the tint bath and then
they. They cook in there for probably about two
to three hours. Then they come out and then they
go into a spectrometer. So the spectrometer tests
the frequencies of light that pass through the
lenses and the ones that don't. So if we pull it
out and we aim for 100% light blocking from 400
(54:28):
to 550 nanometers, which is the. The melatonin
disruption zone, according to the science. And if
it's at 98% or 99%, goes back in the bath for a
few extra minutes to cook a bit more, then it
goes back and it's tested. But 99% of the time,
we know the exact time that each lens needs to be
within the tint bath to achieve the 100% blocking
(54:48):
between those frequencies. So, yeah, they have a
lovely warm bath in a lovely solution, and then
they come out looking like yours.
Meredith Oke (54:57):
That's so funny. That's a good question, Twyla. I
didn't actually know that. So it's like the clear
glass absorbs the color and then depending on how
long you leave it in, all the way up to 100%.
Andy Mant (55:13):
Yes. And if you leave it in for like an hour, it
would look like paler orange all the way up. If
you left it in for, like 10 hours, it would be
bright red and you wouldn't see anything red. But
you have to time it just right. It takes a lot of
experimentation, but we managed to have the
recipe. Now that works really well. And the tin
is developed in partnership with our lab partner
(55:35):
as well. So it's proprietary to our glasses,
which is really good.
Meredith Oke (55:41):
That is so cool. Okay, that was a good one. I
didn't know That I love thinking of all the
little lenses in there.
Katie Mant (55:53):
I like it.
Meredith Oke (55:54):
Yeah. Well, you know, I should get a little bit.
Get the 11 year old to do the podcast questions
going forward. So my son, he succeed. He, he
didn't have a question, but he wanted to say
thank you for using. I don't even know what,
remember what they're called. But the thing that
plugs in, he's like, that's the. He liked it was
(56:16):
the kind that you can use and that it plugs into
anything. You know what I'm talking about? Like
where you go to charge it. What's the little
piece that sticks in called?
Katie Mant (56:27):
Oh, for. On the phones, like the. Is that what
you. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (56:30):
Or on the, on the night lights. We have all the
little clip on night lights.
Katie Mant (56:34):
Oh, yes. Yes.
Meredith Oke (56:36):
That you would plug in to charge them. Yes, that
you can see how technical I am. Right? The thing
that plugs in to charge it.
Katie Mant (56:47):
Okay.
Meredith Oke (56:48):
He was happy because he could use any plug and it
charges.
Andy Mant (56:52):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (56:53):
That was his feedback. That's all I got.
Katie Mant (56:55):
Nice. I'm glad. Yeah. Again, look at him spotting
all these little things.
Meredith Oke (57:00):
I said, are you sure you don't want me to double
check that I'm not overreacting, making you wear
orange glasses and make your turn your screen red
all the time? He's like, no, I believe you. I
actually noticed a difference, Mom. Like, okay.
And then Twyla also wanted to know where you got
the name Bon Charge.
Katie Mant (57:21):
Oh, do you know what? That took what, a year to
18 months? That was a mission. That was an
absolute mission. Because we wanted a name that
reflected the products that we currently had, but
also the vision of where we're going as well. So
it all comes down basically. Bon Charge means
good energy. So we're principled around the fact
that we harness the good energies of nature and
(57:43):
then try and block the bad energies of the modern
day world. So it was all about good energy. But
it was just a lot of brainstorming, a lot of
troubleshooting to find a name that, that worked.
So. Yeah, nothing glamorous really. It was just
me and Andy bouncing names around until we found
one that worked. So I wish there was a more
polished story.
Meredith Oke (58:02):
No, that's a great, I mean, good energy. That's,
that's a good. And it is, it's a cute little
like, it's a good name. It's a good.
Katie Mant (58:10):
I'm glad you like it.
Meredith Oke (58:11):
You did a good job. Yeah, it lands. And it's
funny because whenever I work with, you know,
people who, you know, like my podcast producer or
technical people who don't really know anything
about the content of what I do. They're just
there to help me. A few. A few months in of
listening to all of my. The interviews that I do
and pros, you know, editing all my stuff, they're
(58:33):
like, okay, send me a link for the blue for those
glasses. So I remember I said, my podcast
producer, she. She wrote me back. She's like,
they're not cute. And I was like, okay, try. Try
this one. And I sent her Bon Charge. She was the
(58:57):
ones she was finding. She's like, I understand
why to wear them, but they're not. They don't
have.
Katie Mant (59:01):
They're not cute.
Meredith Oke (59:02):
And I'm like, oh, Bon Charges are cute. So I
don't know if that was you, Katie, or what, but
this woman had like a trend level that she was
not willing to go below even to save herself from
the blue light.
Katie Mant (59:18):
I'm here for that as well.
Meredith Oke (59:20):
So that was. She was happy.
Andy Mant (59:23):
If it was up to me, they'd all be looking like
lab safety goggles. Thanks for them looking cute.
Meredith Oke (59:30):
Yeah, I thought maybe I was like, oh, Andy's.
Yeah, Andy did this with his wife. Maybe that's
why his are so cute. So, yeah, I just wanted to
wrap up. So I alluded to this earlier, but I
really do think that entrepreneurs play such an
important role in the progress of society because
(59:56):
what you identified in order to start this
company was a problem, and now you built a
product to help to solve that problem. In order
to sell the product, you need to educate the
public on that problem. And so we all work
together. And I just want to say that because I
coach a lot of people who. In the health and
(01:00:17):
wellness space, and they just want to help people
and they don't want to charge any money and they
don't want to start. They're like, oh, the
business stuff, oh, I don't know. But I think it
really matters. And I think it's a really
important, crucial piece of creating a healthy
culture to have companies that are rooted in good
stuff. And so I just wanted to say that because I
(01:00:40):
know it's hard.
Katie Mant (01:00:44):
You believe in and you're passionate about it,
and for those people that.
Meredith Oke (01:03:03):
Oh, thanks, Andy. Well, I. I really do love
partnering with you guys. And you run a really
tight ship. You know, your company is really well
run, your marketing is good, all your stuff is
good, and I think that matters. And you're
modeling how to do that in a way that has
integrity and that is overall, you know,
(01:03:25):
contributing to our culture and to our society.
And so good job. Yeah. It was a pleasure to have
you both back on and, you know, to everyone
listening, if you want to dig in more. Andy. I
(01:03:45):
made Andy go really deep on his how to build a
successful business in our first interview. So
circle back and listen to that one. But thank you
both, such a pleasure.
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