July 24, 2025 • 49 mins
📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube
"We are the technology," says Dr. Katelyn Lehman, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to explore the fascinating world of quantum coherence and scalar waves. As a clinical psychologist with a deep understanding of mind-body science, Dr. Lehman explains how our awareness and intention can catalyze physiological coherence, leading to profound healing and personal transformation.
Dr. Lehman delves into the emerging paradigm that bridges ancient wisdom with cutting-edge science, challenging the traditional Cartesian split between mind and body. She discusses how heart-brain coherence, supported by practices like meditation and the cultivation of positive emotions, can lead to thousands of beneficial neurochemical and neurobiological changes in the body.
Tune in to today's episode to learn about the potential of scalar wave technology, the importance of integrating psychological sciences in quantum healing, and why embracing the multiplicity of human experience is crucial for our collective evolution. Dr. Lehman also offers a powerful perspective on the intersection of quantum biology and gender dynamics in scientific discourse, reminding us of the importance of empathy and ethical behavior in this emerging field.
5 Key Takeaways
1. Practice heart-brain coherence through meditation, focusing on cultivating positive emotions like joy, love, and gratitude. This can lead to numerous neurochemical and biological benefits.
2. Explore sound healing techniques, such as solfeggio tones or binaural beats, to promote relaxation and support autonomic nervous system regulation.
3. Set clear intentions for your healing journey, whether using scalar wave devices or other modalities, to enhance the effectiveness of the experience.
4. Develop your interoception skills - the awareness of your internal bodily states - to create greater coherence in your life from the inside out.
5. Approach new paradigms and healing modalities with an open mind, while maintaining a grounded perspective. Balance flexibility with healthy boundaries as you explore expanded awareness.
Memorable Quotes
"Coherence can be defined as a degree of correlation in the electromagnetic field. Every cell in our body and every thought creates a pattern of information flowing throughout our physical body."
"We are the technology. We need a completely new scientific paradigm, a new ontological foundation upon which our science can reimagine itself."
"Scalar waves don't behave like traditional waves. When they come up against physical matter, they're perceived to pass through it. They're omnipresent - it's almost like you need a new framework to understand this complexity."
Connect with Katelyn
Website - https://www.quantumclinic.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelynlehman
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drkatelynlehman
Resources Mentioned
Quantum Clinic - www.quantumclinic.com
The Telepathy Tapes podcast - https://thetelepathytapes.com/
QBC Resources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meredith Oke (05:57):
You. Hi, Caitlin. Welcome to the QVC podcast.
It's so great to meet you.
Katelyn Lehman (06:05):
It's so nice to meet you too, Meredith. Thanks
for having me.
Meredith Oke (06:09):
My pleasure. So I heard about you because you
have a clinic in Los Angeles called the Quantum
Clinic. I was like, ooh, what's that? So I
noticed that you're, you know, you've really,
your approach is, comes from a place of quantum
(06:31):
coherence. Like when I, when I read your work or
go to your website, that's a starting place for
you. Could you just share sort of what that means
to you and how you explain it to people, the
concept of quantum coherence?
Katelyn Lehman (06:43):
Sure, absolutely. So I think before I dive right
into that, it's helpful to have a little bit of a
frame of reference for how I approach this
emergent paradigm of understanding. And anytime
we talk about quantum systems, obviously people
have these, you know, typically one of two
(07:04):
reactions. They either think we're talking about
quantum mechanics, you know, and observer, you
know, wave particle duality, you know, they get
really granular with it. And there is a lot of
science coming out that sort of is in that realm,
but there's also this other realm which is a
little bit more kind of based in an understanding
(07:29):
of mind body science. So understanding that that
awareness or that field, that observer actually
is operating inside of us. So for me, with my
background being in clinical psychology, I have a
doctorate in clinical psychology and was
practicing here in Los Angeles county for about
15 years before starting Quantum Clinic. I wanted
(07:52):
to really, you know, empower people with the
skills and space to be able to begin to develop
what's called interoception or that awareness of
their internal states so that they can create
greater coherence in their own lives from the
(08:13):
inside out. Right, right. Because coherence
though it is, you know, it, it can be defined as
simply a, it's a degree of correlation in the
electromagnetic field. Resonances, right.
Electromagnetism, the spectrum of light beyond
just visible light. All things emit a, a small
(08:35):
but measurable electromagnetic field, including
every cell in our body and every thought. Right.
Creates a pattern of this information flowing
throughout our physical body. And so we really
work at that intersection there of where
intention and the active cultivation of these
(08:58):
positive or life affirming emotional states,
which really then catalyzes or creates the
conditions for, for physiological coherence. And
so primarily at Quantum Clinic, we're working
with heart brain coherence. That's something that
a lot of people these days are familiar with or
(09:19):
have heard about. But you Know, they're wanting
to like, have an experience of it. And so that's.
Hopefully that answered your question.
Meredith Oke (09:29):
Yes, I love. No, that was beautifully expressed.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Lehman. I. And
brought up something that I've been kind of
grappling with lately. So, you know, I have my
background, I was an English major and worked as
a executive coach. So I'm like, by no means a
(09:50):
scientist. And I was very much in, in the world
of energy medicine and, and healing for personal
reasons. And I started to understand some of the
basics of quantum physics and quantum biology.
And for some of us, like, for you and for me,
it's like, oh, there's science that's explaining,
(10:15):
you know, distance healing, energy healing, all
of the things. But what I've noticed is that the
scientists are still managing. And you alluded to
this in your answer, right. Like, they're still
managing to somehow acknowledge that it exists,
but just pull out some practical scientific
applications and not shift the paradigm at all.
Katelyn Lehman (10:39):
Right.
Meredith Oke (10:39):
And I think I, I think I thought like, oh, now
that quantum biology is real, everyone's going to
understand that we're energetic beings alight.
And it's not happening. I know I was, I was naive.
Katelyn Lehman (10:53):
It is happening. And that's important to honor
and acknowledge. It's just that our institutions
and general medical practice. Right. Is very much
rooted in Cartesian, you know, Western
understanding of the split between mind and body.
(11:15):
Right. We are our entire. You know, the
development of Western medicine was rooted in the
belief that the body could be viewed as, you
know, sort of this hermetically sealed object,
right, that could be tinkered with like a machine
(11:38):
and, and that, you know, sort of we just left the
soul or the spirit or the, the, the life force
with, through which this whole symphony of a body
being is, is, is activated through. We leave that
over there to the philosophers and the religious
scientists and we, we focus exclusively on, on,
(12:00):
on this kind of narrow view of human experience.
And that led to a lot of incredible developments
in Western medicine. And, and certainly it's not,
you know, let's throw the baby out with the
bathwater. I think right now we're in a place
where, and psychology has a big part to play in
this. Where how can we communicate about the
(12:21):
emergent paradigm in a way that intuitively makes
sense to those who have a little bit more of a
traditional approach to health and human
functioning.
Meredith Oke (12:35):
Yes, yeah, no, definitely. And I think what I've
been following the field of quantum biology and
there's the academic part of it is Growing. And
there are more and more people who are, you know,
(12:55):
it's not like a, a weird thing anymore. No, but
when I read their work, it's like entirely
focused on creating medical devices or
pharmaceuticals or technology.
Katelyn Lehman (13:08):
Technology as, as something as it.
Meredith Oke (13:11):
External. And any other repercussions of this,
you know, of what this science is really telling
us is, is just being completely ignored. And I
was like, how can you. And then I was like, oh
wait, but that's what we did 100 years ago with
quantum physics. We made computers and bombs and
didn't shift our materials materialist paradigm
(13:33):
one inch.
Katelyn Lehman (13:34):
Yes. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (13:36):
At least in, in the mainstream scientific
community. And I just see it happening again.
Katelyn Lehman (13:39):
So Meredith, we, the. We, the wicked witches of
the west, must unite. Refuse to allow that to
happen.
Meredith Oke (13:49):
That's what we're doing here. That's the goal.
Right. Because the other thing I noticed about
the scientists is that they have absolutely like,
no, like it's completely out of their wheelhouse
to communicate their findings to the general
(14:09):
public. Right. Like, you know, well, that's not.
Sunlight is so important and blue light is so
bad. And they're like, oh yeah, no, we know it's
terrible. They tell us. But there's no. So that,
that storytelling bridge is what you're saying?
Katelyn Lehman (14:23):
Yeah, yeah, that there's a storytelling bridge
and a communication component to, to
translational science. Right. Taking the
traditional academic research and the journal
articles and then kind of conveying that to a
public audience or a general audience is a skill
in and of itself and one that, you know, there
(14:45):
are more and more thought leaders out there doing
just that. And I think this conversation is a
part of that. Right. We all are in a position
where many of us, especially those who are drawn
to kind of like the intuitive energy oriented
modalities or paths to living a more vibrant,
(15:08):
sustainable, joyous and healthy life. We, we have
all of this intuitive understanding and because
we live in a culture that really only validates
strict empiricism. Right. To, to, to. As the, as
the metric for determining truth. Right. Or you
(15:33):
know, suggesting that something could be, quote,
real. Right. We all feel like we're a bunch of
quacks when in reality, you know, the emergent
paradigm is fundamentally different in that it
allows for the multiplicity of experience to be
equally valid even when those two experiences
(15:56):
fundamentally contradict one another. Right.
That, that, that, that is a part of this journey.
And as humanity continues to evolve, it's my
belief that we will ultimately arrive at a place
where we can, can embrace that diversity of
Experience and the multiplicity of lived
(16:18):
realities as, as a strength and not a threat to
the hegemony of, you know, the way in which our
culture sort of like perpetuates a particular
view as, as the gold standard for truth.
Meredith Oke (16:41):
Yes, and it's interesting to hear you say that
because that was kind of where I was landing
yesterday. I was having a meditative moment and
it's like, you know, but yeah, it'll be what
it'll be and we, but the beauty of it is that we
get to do whatever we want.
Katelyn Lehman (17:02):
Here we are.
Meredith Oke (17:03):
Here we are. Yeah, we have this technology and we
can.
Katelyn Lehman (17:08):
Well, we are the technology and that's the, you
know, I think that's to, to your point earlier,
there's, there's all of this awakening in, you
know, and I'm someone who art advocates for. We,
we need a completely new scientific paradigm, a
set of, you know, we need a new ontological
(17:31):
foundation upon which our science can, can
reimagine itself. Right. This, this strictly
reductionist way of understanding the world
simply hasn't worked out. And so I'm really
fascinated by kind of complexity science and
ecological systems theory in addition to quantum
(17:55):
mechanics and quantum physics. I think there's a
really interesting conversation right now that
ultimately brings us back to some of the very
ancient conversations that philosophers have been
having for, for millennia, right? Which is that
it appears that there's this divine intelligence
embedded in the fabric of the universe, right? At
(18:16):
all, across all scales, right? From, from the
Planck scale, you know, which is the smallest
scale below which the laws of physics, you know,
fall apart, right? The Planck scale, bits of
information to atoms, to, you know, molecules, to
cells, to organs and bones and bodies. And you
(18:38):
know, then you keep zooming out and so, so it's
really about, it really comes back to, I think,
embracing the reality that there are questions in
this universe for which there will never be
finite answers, right? To, to we will there. And
(18:58):
that's the nature of, that's the nature of
reality. So how do we, how do we even work with
that? And what do we, what is it within our power
to choose to create a world that supports more
people having access to, you know, these, these
(19:18):
methods, these techniques that support their well
being and their health and human functioning,
right? So when, when we talk about heart, brain
coherence at Quantum Clinic, really truly it's,
it's a meditative practice. It's the synchronized
entrainment of three variables. Respiration,
heart rate variability and blood pressure. And
(19:39):
that can be done by connecting, you know, your
Intention with your breath and your body. But
really what sets it off, what really elevates
those coherence scores is, is the cultivation of
joy or love or gratitude or deep appreciation.
Right. These, these felt experiences of awe and
(20:01):
wonder and authenticity. Right. That, that is
what sets your coherence score apart from just an
ordinary meditation. And you can really begin to
practice that. And you know, so people would say,
well, why would I? Well, because it feels good to
be in those states certainly. Right. And
(20:23):
ultimately, you know, it's associated with
approximately 5,000 different neurochemical and
neurobiological changes in the body. Right away
from stress, it's sort of. And into these life
affirming states which supports a deeper
integration of trauma, of interpersonal stress,
(20:47):
of emotional dysregulation, et cetera, et cetera.
And those are the things that like cause people
to have premature health, you know, issues like
to get sick. Right. Is, is, is truly a relational
dynamic. You know, germ theory has its place,
don't get me wrong. Like yes, germs are real. I
(21:09):
have a kid, I have a six year old. So like I know
germs are real, but it's also germs at school
with his friends, right? Like, you know, like, so
it's, there's, there's, you know, so again it's
not, we don't have to throw out the old paradigm
in order to create space for the new. And that's
(21:31):
really, I think an important part of the larger
conversation here is like how, how do we, how do
we like come together and move through this with
joy and love and respect for one another?
Meredith Oke (21:45):
Yes. Yeah, I love that. And, and you know, I see
this science because sometimes I have people,
they're like, you know, they're like, what do you
mean? What do you mean that there's finally
evidence for quantum effects than human systems.
Like of course, of course, we are quantum beings.
What do we need that science for? But I see it as
(22:07):
a bridge, as you're saying, as we're all in a
slightly different place, let's say ontologically
and each step forward it builds a bridge that it
could be, we could use in our own unique way to
get to our next place.
Katelyn Lehman (22:25):
100%.
Meredith Oke (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would be wonderful to
have a medical device that treats cancer with
light instead of chemotherapy. Like that would be
great. I'm not well.
Katelyn Lehman (22:37):
The FDA just approved a sound based device.
Meredith Oke (22:42):
Oh, wonderful.
Katelyn Lehman (22:43):
That ablates cancer tumors using sound waves for
surgery.
Meredith Oke (22:48):
Yeah, that's wonderful to hear because I've had
several People on the podcast, brilliant people
who are like, oh, I did experiments since as an
undergrad and I was killing cancer cells with
sound or light or whatever. I'm like, what
happened? Like, I don't know. No one was
interested. I moved on.
Katelyn Lehman (23:03):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (23:04):
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
Katelyn Lehman (23:06):
Yeah. I mean we at Quantum Clinic, you know,
sound ultras think of ultrasound, right, to, to
create a visual image. It's sound waves being
passed through the body that then processes produ
are able to produce an image of structures inside
of the body. That's how we look at babies in
utero, right, Is through the application of non
audible sound wave frequencies. But, but the, the
(23:31):
whole realm of audible sound actually is, is an,
a very interesting area of study and, and one
that we're involved in at Quantum Clinic. I'm
sorry, my cat is very excited about being here
right now. She's rubbing her face up on the
computer. Come here, sweetie.
Meredith Oke (23:52):
Oh, we love a good cat visit.
Katelyn Lehman (23:54):
Hey, so, so audible frequencies, right? Sounds
that support autonomic nervous system regulation
integration. Think of solfeggiotones or binaural
beats, right? These are, these are compositions
(24:15):
of frequencies that support, you know, again,
sort of an ordering effect within the body,
right? Because when you apply sound to let's say
water, right. Of which most of the body is
comprised of water molecules, so you apply sound
(24:36):
to water, it has an ordering effect, a
structuring effect. It creates resonant patterns
or geometric shapes in the water itself. And as
that is is passing through the body and beyond
being a relaxing experience which many people
associate like a sound bath or a sound healing
(24:59):
session with a state of relaxation, you know,
what, what, what we're seeing is that it promotes
again this quantum coherence. It has a, it has a,
an organizing effect on our physiology and our
psychology in such a way that it allows for the,
(25:21):
the flow of energy and information in the body in
a way that's more fluid, that's less stagnant. It
can help move energetic blocks. It can help open
up parts of our experience that we hadn't
previously felt or had access to. And again, this
is why in my opinion, it's so important that we
(25:45):
involve the psychological sciences in this, you
know, communication about this paradigm. Because
you know, if you think of, of, of the, the
totality of the quantum system that, that we are
perceiving and experiencing through, you know,
our lives. Right, well, well how is that then
(26:06):
communicated to us? Right? Well, it's through
sensation, image, feeling and thought. Those are
innately psychological factors. There's no
there's no feeling state in the, the brain
doesn't feel, the brain doesn't see. It's
interpreting all of this information at the speed
of light. And we are subjectively experiencing
(26:29):
that through our field of awareness. Right. So
awareness then becomes the, the healing mechanism
as our awareness expands or contracts because it
will do both over the lifespan. Right. As it, as
it continues to evolve and, and develop as we, as
(26:53):
we go through life. Well then you, you, you
become more capable of seeing the world
differently or perhaps others seeing the world
more rigidly, you know, and, and so then it's,
it, it's about this dynamic interplay between
rigidity and flexib and flexibility and obviously
(27:14):
flexibility and rigidity, both, neither are
perfect balance. You have to have boundaries on
one hand and openness on the other. But you know,
how we navigate that then becomes the dance of
life. And what a beautiful dance it is.
Meredith Oke (27:32):
Yes. So talk to me about the concept of scalar
waves and how they play into this because you
have a device and this has come up a lot and I
haven't talked about it on here, so I'd love for
you to explain.
Katelyn Lehman (27:50):
Yeah, so scalar waves are what's called non
Hertzian waves. And there's a significant debate
in the scientific community. Community as to what
exactly is a scalar wave. I actually wrote about
this in a book that I wrote that's still
unpublished, but maybe one day it will, it will
come out. And, and, and so it's, you know, people
(28:16):
have different definitions for what is it. But
the properties of a scalar wave that make it
unique is that, it's my understanding. And again,
I'm not a physicist. I'm, my background is in
clinical psychology. So I, I will do, I will have
this conversation to the best of my ability.
Meredith Oke (28:34):
We are having, we are telling the story of the
science.
Katelyn Lehman (28:37):
Yes, yes, exactly. We're not giving it, I'm not,
I'm not saying I have all.
Meredith Oke (28:41):
Okay, people.
Katelyn Lehman (28:44):
But, but these waves don't behave like
traditional waves in, in so much as they, when
they, when they're moving through space and they,
and they come up against physical matter, so say
a human body or a wall or whatever, they're
(29:04):
perceived to pass through it. So they're
omnipresent. Right. They're, they're, it's, it's
everywhere. It's almost like. Okay, you know,
and, and our kind of Newtonian physics,
understanding classical, you know, classical laws
of physics don't, doesn't really hold the
(29:26):
complexity of that. Like what, what do you mean?
Where, well, where does it. So it's almost like
you have to have a new, new framework in order
to, to understand this, which is why I really am
resonate with the, the concept or the idea that's
been posited of, you know, the holographic
(29:50):
principle that, you know, each atom contains
everything, all of the information from the
universe itself, right? Like that, every, the
smallest bit contains all, right? And so if you
think of the world in that way, well then maybe
these scalar waves are merely just the
(30:14):
communication between and among all of those
points. People may be familiar with the type of
art called pointillism, right, where each, you
stand far away from the painting and it looks
like a beautiful landscape, right? There's that
(30:36):
famous one of the guy holding the umbrella, the
couple walking through the park or something. I
forget who did it anyway, and then you come up to
the painting and you see it's actually just a
bunch of little dots, right? So if you think of
scalar energy as being this pluripotentiality,
(30:56):
right, perhaps like the Vedic traditions or the
Eastern philosophical traditions have talked
about, you know, the universe is, is the yin and
yang, the potential, right. I, I like to think of
scalar energy as, as the activation or the
awareness of that pure potentiality that exists
(31:16):
in every point in the field. Right. And that,
that then would make sense why these waves don't
stop at matter because matter is also just
another point on, in the larger tapestry of
existence. Right? So when, when we talk about,
(31:38):
you know, what it, okay, what is. So that's,
that's more of an abstract philosophical
conversation of what is scalar energy? The
ultimate, you know, response is well, we don't
really know. It sort of doesn't quite fit our
traditional models of understanding. But the best
way that I know how to describe it is that it,
that it's the activation of a, of some sort of
(31:59):
latent potentiality that exists. Right? Okay. And
then there, there are technologies, emergent
technologies coming on the market, and we have
one of those, there are many which, which uses
coils, hand wound copper coils that are
(32:22):
configured in a particular geometric patterning.
There are three coils and inert noble gases in
plasma tubes. So that then when the device is
turned on, purports to, again as I mentioned
earlier, sort of have a structuring effect. It
(32:44):
activates the potentiality within the field
generated in and around the technology itself
and, and audible frequencies are passed through
that, administered through headphones and a
vibrating waterbed. And the feedback that we get
(33:05):
from clients is that it's very supportive of any
kind of autonomic dysregulation. So any anxiety,
stress, emotional overwhelm. We get a lot of
people who deal with chronic inflammatory
diseases like fibromyalgia or there are lots of
(33:25):
them these days, people dealing with
comorbidities around pain, pain in the body, and
just kind of fog, Right. Mental fog, and that
they have this experience which lasts for about
45 minutes. They're exposed to these sound
frequencies in the body and through the ears, and
(33:48):
they're in this field, this structured field, and
it, and it brings the potentiality, the electric,
the electromagnetic current in the body up to its
fullest potential. Right. So it's like it wakes
things up, so to speak. And again, kind of tying
it into the realm of like, what is this quantum
(34:11):
world we're talking about? Well, it's the realm
of sensation, image, feeling or thought. And so
as people are having this experience of laying on
the bed and being. Being supported by a clinician
who, who orients them to the space and encourages
them to set an intention for their healing. You
know, we, we are very. At quantum clinic, we're
attuned to the relational and human qualities of
(34:35):
healing. Very much so. So that's an important
part of this. Right. And, and that often then
that process of connecting to one's intention or
whatever will evoke a particular type of journey.
Right. While you're receiving these frequencies,
some people go to the distant past, rate of their
(34:57):
souls, previous incarnations. Some people stay
very much in the body. Some people drift into a
state of sort of kind of sleep. Right. It really
depends on, you know, what's coming up for the
person or the individual. But what we've noticed
is that people then, when they exit that service
(35:20):
tend to feel much more embodied, present,
connected, grounded, less pain, less
inflammation. And. Yeah, that. I think, we think
that's a net positive for humanity right now.
Meredith Oke (35:34):
Yes, definitely. And I, yeah, I love these, these
technologies that are acknowledging this other
layer to existence that our traditional
understanding doesn't fully teach us, is there?
Yeah, because we're so, we're opening to the
(35:56):
healing, but we're also opening to seeing the
world this way, which will remain as part of your
life experience even after you've left the
session, I would imagine.
Katelyn Lehman (36:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Meredith Oke (36:13):
I was talking to someone, they. And they told me
a story about one of these like, scalar devices.
And the person was having like an energy reading
done of their home by an intuitive. And so the,
the intuitive was like reading the energy of the
house to see I, whatever, we, whatever you would
(36:36):
do that for. And yeah, she was like, oh, there's,
there's something, there's the frequency is much
higher like in this area, like in this closet or
there's something that's very much higher. And
they were like, oh, that's where we have our
scalar machine. That's where we have our scalar
device turned on because they had it like next to
(36:58):
their WI fi router or something. They put the
scalar there to balance it out. And that was the,
I heard that story. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm
curious about this now.
Katelyn Lehman (37:09):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (37:10):
How I mean it's just like a whole universe
happening that like right next to us and it's
just crazy to think about.
Katelyn Lehman (37:22):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, when we're, when
we're talking about, you know, intuitive energy
reading, you know, not non local awareness, all
of these things, you know, the quantum realm
really does, at least in part, it's my belief
(37:47):
provider, the basis for those experiences. Right.
Like I, I, I, you know, it's funny, I hesitate to
talk too much about it because again, like we
live in a, in a very complex time in human
history and I think that, that women in
particular, but also men who have practiced
(38:12):
indigenous ways of knowing and, and this kind of
deeper unified field which we are all a part of,
right. We're a node in the larger infinite field
of energy and information. And, and if we accept
(38:32):
that consciousness is the floor or the, the
ground of existence, if you will, which expresses
itself through biological adaptations and
geological processes and all of these things,
well then at least hypothetically it is possible
(38:53):
to know things in ways that are not limited by
our present time space continuum. Right. That
there is a way in which we can access that deeper
(39:13):
intelligence, that deeper knowing. And that
example you shared of your friend or whomever,
you know, having an intuitive do an energy
reading and whoa, lo and behold, like they
actually said there is a closet over there that
like is pinging my sensors, right. That, that,
that it's becoming, it's becoming more and more
(39:35):
difficult to dismiss those because of the
preponderance of evidence that those things are.
Well, yeah, there's like this thing here that
I'm, that I'm running right now. Like yeah, of
course there would, you would notice that. Like
so, and, and you know, remote healings, distance
healings, telepathic communication between hearts
(39:59):
and souls. These, these are all things that, that
would get you burned at the stake for heresy at
many times throughout human history. And so I
think, you know, Rightfully so many women,
especially those of us, you know, out here doing
the good work. Right. Like, are hesitant to. To
(40:23):
speak about in greater depth or. Or outside of
circles that feel really, really safe to do so.
Right. Because it does at times border on the
miraculous, but it's also becoming more. More
cultural, culturally accepted. Right. Like the
Autism Files or the. Did you hear. Did you watch
that podcast or.
Meredith Oke (40:44):
Oh, the Telepathy tapes.
Katelyn Lehman (40:46):
Thank you. Yes, the Telepathy tapes. You know,
they're primarily interviewing people on the, on
the spectrum. And, and so, you know, that's like,
again, as we're, as we're moving forward as a
collective, as a species, I do think this moment
(41:06):
in time calls for, you know, sort of an
acknowledgement and a recognition of ancient
truths to be re remembered by those of us who are
here now, and that we should be courageous in
communicating about those experiences. Within
(41:27):
reason.
Meredith Oke (41:28):
Yes. Because I'm glad you brought the Telepathy
tapes up because, I mean, it was a profoundly
beautiful piece of art that she made with that
podcast. But what really landed for me was how
popular it was. I think for a couple of weeks it
(41:51):
was the number one podcast in the United States,
if not more places, which is like tens of
millions of downloads.
Katelyn Lehman (42:01):
Well, so.
Meredith Oke (42:02):
And I. What you're saying is like, we're. Yeah,
it be. It was above Joe Rogan for a while there.
So it's like we're so timid to.
Katelyn Lehman (42:12):
Say it, but everybody wants to hear it. Yeah,
yeah, but. Because even Joe Rogan, like, I mean,
you know, who's. He's the number one. Right.
Like, he talks about that stuff.
Meredith Oke (42:24):
Yeah. And then he had her on his podcast, the.
The producer, which I thought was lovely.
Katelyn Lehman (42:30):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (42:32):
Yes. And those are the moments because, yeah, I
do. I do think there is that current of fear. I
do, you know, and I see it. You know, I had a
lovely scientist on here who. He's like an
astrophysicist who got really involved in his
retirement, looking at infrared light and how it
(42:54):
impacts.
Katelyn Lehman (42:57):
Our bodies.
Meredith Oke (42:57):
And how it goes through our bodies. And it's like
such cool. He's doing such cool research, like,
just at home because he's retired. And at the
end, I was like, just very gently, like, oh, has
this research sort of changed your view of the
world or the universe? And he was like, oh, I
don't know what you're talking about. Of course
(43:20):
not. This is science. I was like, okay, okay,
okay. So, yeah, so it's sort of like, I do think
for men, especially in a certain field, there
they are also very protective of their
reputations and don't want to be associated with
the woo woo stuff.
Katelyn Lehman (43:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Meredith Oke (43:40):
But then, yeah, I've been finding more and more
it's like when you, you, you put it out there and
it lands like with people where I never would
have expected it to land.
Katelyn Lehman (43:49):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to say one more thing
about, about this paradigm because, and, and
specifically as, as it interacts with gendered
norms, personality types and psychopathology,
(44:13):
right? Because, just because we now have the
language to back up intuitive understanding,
alternate modes of knowing with science, right?
As science is described in a very narrow frame of
understanding, again. Right. That doesn't mean
(44:38):
that those things were not true or throughout
human history. It just means that we now have the
language to validate it. Right. But men, I'm
gonna say it, men have been systematically
invalidating these experiences which are
(45:00):
traditionally conceived of and, and known more by
women, right. That, that they have systematically
undercut and invalidated, invalidated those modes
of knowing. And that still happens today. Right.
(45:20):
Just because someone is a notable figure in a
particular scientific discipline does not mean
that they're also not enacting profoundly
narcissistic, ego driven, selfish, you know, self
protective defense mechanisms, right. As a way
(45:43):
to, to, to, you know, compensate for adversity
they perhaps experienced in childhood. And that
those, those patterns of harm that exist in the
interpersonal worlds, right? The relationships
that, that evolve between peoples, right. Like
(46:05):
none of this quantum biology stuff changes that.
Right. The harm that's perpetuated the, the
pathology that's enacted right over millennia is
still operating in the present. Just because
(46:26):
somebody studies this area doesn't make them
capable of, of empathy. And that's a harsh
reality that we have to face, you know,
especially as women in our world.
Meredith Oke (46:47):
Yes. And I, I appreciate you articulating that
because that is, does happen and is happening.
And it's really disconcerting for those of us who
see it from the perspective that we're talking
(47:07):
about because you have people using the same
language and it's like, you know, I was talking
to someone and she's like, how can so and so and
so and so be talking about the quantum field, be
talking about biophysics and quantum, quantum
biology and not understand that they're part of
their behavior is affecting their words, the way
(47:31):
they treat people.
Katelyn Lehman (47:33):
Yep.
Meredith Oke (47:33):
And it doesn't, it's like exactly what you just
described is happening.
Katelyn Lehman (47:40):
Right. And that's been happening for millennia.
Right. People usurping spiritual language and now
they're usurping the, the, the language du jour,
right, which is this unified field and, and love
and light and all of that stuff there. It's a,
it's a form of, you know, misappropriation of
(48:01):
spiritual teachings for, for their own self
interest and to assert dominance and power and
control in interpersonal relationships. Right. So
that, that is, is still, I would argue, like a
(48:21):
much more critical imperative for us to address
collectively. And again, it's all, it's all
happening simultaneously. But you know, people,
people are people and we all have these
incredibly self destructive and malicious and,
(48:41):
and base kind of instincts within us. And
ultimately where, where, where it lands for me is
falling back on kind of traditional Buddhist
principles of, of, you know, not doing harm.
Right? How, how do I take these teachings and
(49:02):
apply them in my own life and in such a way that
I am not contributing to greater harm? And when I
am confronted by adversity or, you know, whatever
the case may be, okay, am I a courageous and
competent adult who is capable of showing up in
(49:30):
ways that is respectful, that is reciprocal, and
that is grounded in the creation of a shared
understanding of reality? Because as we move away
from having a rigid, you know, finite, concrete
understanding of reality towards a more
(49:52):
pluralistic or, you know, multiple realities can
coexist, then it becomes about our ability to
navigate that, to negotiate that, to have the
dialogue, that. That creates a foundation for a
shared consensus. Right. That's, you know,
(50:16):
that's, I think, why we're in such a mess
geopolitically and culturally right now. Why so
strong men are taking power across the globe?
Because people are like, what is this? They don't
know what to do with all of this. The polarity,
the splitting, the perceptual fragments that are
(50:39):
manifesting on the larger scale. So I'm not sure
that I did justice to that talking point, but I
think it's an important one to continue to
explore as we, as we grow together, you know?
Meredith Oke (50:55):
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you brought it
up. And you know, for me it's like remembering it
starts with it within me. 100 and I can talk
about quantum entanglement. It's like, what am I
contributing to that field? And if we all, you
know, we all started there. Yeah. Caitlin, this
(51:16):
has been so delightful. Please let us know where
people can find you.
Katelyn Lehman (51:20):
Sure, yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:21):
Continue there.
Katelyn Lehman (51:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:23):
Their journey.
Katelyn Lehman (51:24):
Check it out. So you can find me on Instagram
@Doctor Caitlin Layman or Facebook or, you know,
anywhere, anywhere you find your people. And you
can check out quantumclinic.com and I'll send you
a link to my online course that maybe you can
(51:44):
include in the show notes.
Meredith Oke (51:46):
Sure, I would love to. So, yeah, that's Dr.
Caitlin and it's Caitlin. K A T E L Y N Lehman L
E H M A N this was delightful. And we will have
to do it again sometime.
Katelyn Lehman (51:59):
Wonderful. Thanks so much, Meredith.
You. Hi, Caitlin. Welcome to the QVC podcast.
It's so great to meet you.
Katelyn Lehman (06:05):
It's so nice to meet you too, Meredith. Thanks
for having me.
Meredith Oke (06:09):
My pleasure. So I heard about you because you
have a clinic in Los Angeles called the Quantum
Clinic. I was like, ooh, what's that? So I
noticed that you're, you know, you've really,
your approach is, comes from a place of quantum
(06:31):
coherence. Like when I, when I read your work or
go to your website, that's a starting place for
you. Could you just share sort of what that means
to you and how you explain it to people, the
concept of quantum coherence?
Katelyn Lehman (06:43):
Sure, absolutely. So I think before I dive right
into that, it's helpful to have a little bit of a
frame of reference for how I approach this
emergent paradigm of understanding. And anytime
we talk about quantum systems, obviously people
have these, you know, typically one of two
(07:04):
reactions. They either think we're talking about
quantum mechanics, you know, and observer, you
know, wave particle duality, you know, they get
really granular with it. And there is a lot of
science coming out that sort of is in that realm,
but there's also this other realm which is a
little bit more kind of based in an understanding
(07:29):
of mind body science. So understanding that that
awareness or that field, that observer actually
is operating inside of us. So for me, with my
background being in clinical psychology, I have a
doctorate in clinical psychology and was
practicing here in Los Angeles county for about
15 years before starting Quantum Clinic. I wanted
(07:52):
to really, you know, empower people with the
skills and space to be able to begin to develop
what's called interoception or that awareness of
their internal states so that they can create
greater coherence in their own lives from the
(08:13):
inside out. Right, right. Because coherence
though it is, you know, it, it can be defined as
simply a, it's a degree of correlation in the
electromagnetic field. Resonances, right.
Electromagnetism, the spectrum of light beyond
just visible light. All things emit a, a small
(08:35):
but measurable electromagnetic field, including
every cell in our body and every thought. Right.
Creates a pattern of this information flowing
throughout our physical body. And so we really
work at that intersection there of where
intention and the active cultivation of these
(08:58):
positive or life affirming emotional states,
which really then catalyzes or creates the
conditions for, for physiological coherence. And
so primarily at Quantum Clinic, we're working
with heart brain coherence. That's something that
a lot of people these days are familiar with or
(09:19):
have heard about. But you Know, they're wanting
to like, have an experience of it. And so that's.
Hopefully that answered your question.
Meredith Oke (09:29):
Yes, I love. No, that was beautifully expressed.
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Lehman. I. And
brought up something that I've been kind of
grappling with lately. So, you know, I have my
background, I was an English major and worked as
a executive coach. So I'm like, by no means a
(09:50):
scientist. And I was very much in, in the world
of energy medicine and, and healing for personal
reasons. And I started to understand some of the
basics of quantum physics and quantum biology.
And for some of us, like, for you and for me,
it's like, oh, there's science that's explaining,
(10:15):
you know, distance healing, energy healing, all
of the things. But what I've noticed is that the
scientists are still managing. And you alluded to
this in your answer, right. Like, they're still
managing to somehow acknowledge that it exists,
but just pull out some practical scientific
applications and not shift the paradigm at all.
Katelyn Lehman (10:39):
Right.
Meredith Oke (10:39):
And I think I, I think I thought like, oh, now
that quantum biology is real, everyone's going to
understand that we're energetic beings alight.
And it's not happening. I know I was, I was naive.
Katelyn Lehman (10:53):
It is happening. And that's important to honor
and acknowledge. It's just that our institutions
and general medical practice. Right. Is very much
rooted in Cartesian, you know, Western
understanding of the split between mind and body.
(11:15):
Right. We are our entire. You know, the
development of Western medicine was rooted in the
belief that the body could be viewed as, you
know, sort of this hermetically sealed object,
right, that could be tinkered with like a machine
(11:38):
and, and that, you know, sort of we just left the
soul or the spirit or the, the, the life force
with, through which this whole symphony of a body
being is, is, is activated through. We leave that
over there to the philosophers and the religious
scientists and we, we focus exclusively on, on,
(12:00):
on this kind of narrow view of human experience.
And that led to a lot of incredible developments
in Western medicine. And, and certainly it's not,
you know, let's throw the baby out with the
bathwater. I think right now we're in a place
where, and psychology has a big part to play in
this. Where how can we communicate about the
(12:21):
emergent paradigm in a way that intuitively makes
sense to those who have a little bit more of a
traditional approach to health and human
functioning.
Meredith Oke (12:35):
Yes, yeah, no, definitely. And I think what I've
been following the field of quantum biology and
there's the academic part of it is Growing. And
there are more and more people who are, you know,
(12:55):
it's not like a, a weird thing anymore. No, but
when I read their work, it's like entirely
focused on creating medical devices or
pharmaceuticals or technology.
Katelyn Lehman (13:08):
Technology as, as something as it.
Meredith Oke (13:11):
External. And any other repercussions of this,
you know, of what this science is really telling
us is, is just being completely ignored. And I
was like, how can you. And then I was like, oh
wait, but that's what we did 100 years ago with
quantum physics. We made computers and bombs and
didn't shift our materials materialist paradigm
(13:33):
one inch.
Katelyn Lehman (13:34):
Yes. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (13:36):
At least in, in the mainstream scientific
community. And I just see it happening again.
Katelyn Lehman (13:39):
So Meredith, we, the. We, the wicked witches of
the west, must unite. Refuse to allow that to
happen.
Meredith Oke (13:49):
That's what we're doing here. That's the goal.
Right. Because the other thing I noticed about
the scientists is that they have absolutely like,
no, like it's completely out of their wheelhouse
to communicate their findings to the general
(14:09):
public. Right. Like, you know, well, that's not.
Sunlight is so important and blue light is so
bad. And they're like, oh yeah, no, we know it's
terrible. They tell us. But there's no. So that,
that storytelling bridge is what you're saying?
Katelyn Lehman (14:23):
Yeah, yeah, that there's a storytelling bridge
and a communication component to, to
translational science. Right. Taking the
traditional academic research and the journal
articles and then kind of conveying that to a
public audience or a general audience is a skill
in and of itself and one that, you know, there
(14:45):
are more and more thought leaders out there doing
just that. And I think this conversation is a
part of that. Right. We all are in a position
where many of us, especially those who are drawn
to kind of like the intuitive energy oriented
modalities or paths to living a more vibrant,
(15:08):
sustainable, joyous and healthy life. We, we have
all of this intuitive understanding and because
we live in a culture that really only validates
strict empiricism. Right. To, to, to. As the, as
the metric for determining truth. Right. Or you
(15:33):
know, suggesting that something could be, quote,
real. Right. We all feel like we're a bunch of
quacks when in reality, you know, the emergent
paradigm is fundamentally different in that it
allows for the multiplicity of experience to be
equally valid even when those two experiences
(15:56):
fundamentally contradict one another. Right.
That, that, that, that is a part of this journey.
And as humanity continues to evolve, it's my
belief that we will ultimately arrive at a place
where we can, can embrace that diversity of
Experience and the multiplicity of lived
(16:18):
realities as, as a strength and not a threat to
the hegemony of, you know, the way in which our
culture sort of like perpetuates a particular
view as, as the gold standard for truth.
Meredith Oke (16:41):
Yes, and it's interesting to hear you say that
because that was kind of where I was landing
yesterday. I was having a meditative moment and
it's like, you know, but yeah, it'll be what
it'll be and we, but the beauty of it is that we
get to do whatever we want.
Katelyn Lehman (17:02):
Here we are.
Meredith Oke (17:03):
Here we are. Yeah, we have this technology and we
can.
Katelyn Lehman (17:08):
Well, we are the technology and that's the, you
know, I think that's to, to your point earlier,
there's, there's all of this awakening in, you
know, and I'm someone who art advocates for. We,
we need a completely new scientific paradigm, a
set of, you know, we need a new ontological
(17:31):
foundation upon which our science can, can
reimagine itself. Right. This, this strictly
reductionist way of understanding the world
simply hasn't worked out. And so I'm really
fascinated by kind of complexity science and
ecological systems theory in addition to quantum
(17:55):
mechanics and quantum physics. I think there's a
really interesting conversation right now that
ultimately brings us back to some of the very
ancient conversations that philosophers have been
having for, for millennia, right? Which is that
it appears that there's this divine intelligence
embedded in the fabric of the universe, right? At
(18:16):
all, across all scales, right? From, from the
Planck scale, you know, which is the smallest
scale below which the laws of physics, you know,
fall apart, right? The Planck scale, bits of
information to atoms, to, you know, molecules, to
cells, to organs and bones and bodies. And you
(18:38):
know, then you keep zooming out and so, so it's
really about, it really comes back to, I think,
embracing the reality that there are questions in
this universe for which there will never be
finite answers, right? To, to we will there. And
(18:58):
that's the nature of, that's the nature of
reality. So how do we, how do we even work with
that? And what do we, what is it within our power
to choose to create a world that supports more
people having access to, you know, these, these
(19:18):
methods, these techniques that support their well
being and their health and human functioning,
right? So when, when we talk about heart, brain
coherence at Quantum Clinic, really truly it's,
it's a meditative practice. It's the synchronized
entrainment of three variables. Respiration,
heart rate variability and blood pressure. And
(19:39):
that can be done by connecting, you know, your
Intention with your breath and your body. But
really what sets it off, what really elevates
those coherence scores is, is the cultivation of
joy or love or gratitude or deep appreciation.
Right. These, these felt experiences of awe and
(20:01):
wonder and authenticity. Right. That, that is
what sets your coherence score apart from just an
ordinary meditation. And you can really begin to
practice that. And you know, so people would say,
well, why would I? Well, because it feels good to
be in those states certainly. Right. And
(20:23):
ultimately, you know, it's associated with
approximately 5,000 different neurochemical and
neurobiological changes in the body. Right away
from stress, it's sort of. And into these life
affirming states which supports a deeper
integration of trauma, of interpersonal stress,
(20:47):
of emotional dysregulation, et cetera, et cetera.
And those are the things that like cause people
to have premature health, you know, issues like
to get sick. Right. Is, is, is truly a relational
dynamic. You know, germ theory has its place,
don't get me wrong. Like yes, germs are real. I
(21:09):
have a kid, I have a six year old. So like I know
germs are real, but it's also germs at school
with his friends, right? Like, you know, like, so
it's, there's, there's, you know, so again it's
not, we don't have to throw out the old paradigm
in order to create space for the new. And that's
(21:31):
really, I think an important part of the larger
conversation here is like how, how do we, how do
we like come together and move through this with
joy and love and respect for one another?
Meredith Oke (21:45):
Yes. Yeah, I love that. And, and you know, I see
this science because sometimes I have people,
they're like, you know, they're like, what do you
mean? What do you mean that there's finally
evidence for quantum effects than human systems.
Like of course, of course, we are quantum beings.
What do we need that science for? But I see it as
(22:07):
a bridge, as you're saying, as we're all in a
slightly different place, let's say ontologically
and each step forward it builds a bridge that it
could be, we could use in our own unique way to
get to our next place.
Katelyn Lehman (22:25):
100%.
Meredith Oke (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would be wonderful to
have a medical device that treats cancer with
light instead of chemotherapy. Like that would be
great. I'm not well.
Katelyn Lehman (22:37):
The FDA just approved a sound based device.
Meredith Oke (22:42):
Oh, wonderful.
Katelyn Lehman (22:43):
That ablates cancer tumors using sound waves for
surgery.
Meredith Oke (22:48):
Yeah, that's wonderful to hear because I've had
several People on the podcast, brilliant people
who are like, oh, I did experiments since as an
undergrad and I was killing cancer cells with
sound or light or whatever. I'm like, what
happened? Like, I don't know. No one was
interested. I moved on.
Katelyn Lehman (23:03):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (23:04):
Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.
Katelyn Lehman (23:06):
Yeah. I mean we at Quantum Clinic, you know,
sound ultras think of ultrasound, right, to, to
create a visual image. It's sound waves being
passed through the body that then processes produ
are able to produce an image of structures inside
of the body. That's how we look at babies in
utero, right, Is through the application of non
audible sound wave frequencies. But, but the, the
(23:31):
whole realm of audible sound actually is, is an,
a very interesting area of study and, and one
that we're involved in at Quantum Clinic. I'm
sorry, my cat is very excited about being here
right now. She's rubbing her face up on the
computer. Come here, sweetie.
Meredith Oke (23:52):
Oh, we love a good cat visit.
Katelyn Lehman (23:54):
Hey, so, so audible frequencies, right? Sounds
that support autonomic nervous system regulation
integration. Think of solfeggiotones or binaural
beats, right? These are, these are compositions
(24:15):
of frequencies that support, you know, again,
sort of an ordering effect within the body,
right? Because when you apply sound to let's say
water, right. Of which most of the body is
comprised of water molecules, so you apply sound
(24:36):
to water, it has an ordering effect, a
structuring effect. It creates resonant patterns
or geometric shapes in the water itself. And as
that is is passing through the body and beyond
being a relaxing experience which many people
associate like a sound bath or a sound healing
(24:59):
session with a state of relaxation, you know,
what, what, what we're seeing is that it promotes
again this quantum coherence. It has a, it has a,
an organizing effect on our physiology and our
psychology in such a way that it allows for the,
(25:21):
the flow of energy and information in the body in
a way that's more fluid, that's less stagnant. It
can help move energetic blocks. It can help open
up parts of our experience that we hadn't
previously felt or had access to. And again, this
is why in my opinion, it's so important that we
(25:45):
involve the psychological sciences in this, you
know, communication about this paradigm. Because
you know, if you think of, of, of the, the
totality of the quantum system that, that we are
perceiving and experiencing through, you know,
our lives. Right, well, well how is that then
(26:06):
communicated to us? Right? Well, it's through
sensation, image, feeling and thought. Those are
innately psychological factors. There's no
there's no feeling state in the, the brain
doesn't feel, the brain doesn't see. It's
interpreting all of this information at the speed
of light. And we are subjectively experiencing
(26:29):
that through our field of awareness. Right. So
awareness then becomes the, the healing mechanism
as our awareness expands or contracts because it
will do both over the lifespan. Right. As it, as
it continues to evolve and, and develop as we, as
(26:53):
we go through life. Well then you, you, you
become more capable of seeing the world
differently or perhaps others seeing the world
more rigidly, you know, and, and so then it's,
it, it's about this dynamic interplay between
rigidity and flexib and flexibility and obviously
(27:14):
flexibility and rigidity, both, neither are
perfect balance. You have to have boundaries on
one hand and openness on the other. But you know,
how we navigate that then becomes the dance of
life. And what a beautiful dance it is.
Meredith Oke (27:32):
Yes. So talk to me about the concept of scalar
waves and how they play into this because you
have a device and this has come up a lot and I
haven't talked about it on here, so I'd love for
you to explain.
Katelyn Lehman (27:50):
Yeah, so scalar waves are what's called non
Hertzian waves. And there's a significant debate
in the scientific community. Community as to what
exactly is a scalar wave. I actually wrote about
this in a book that I wrote that's still
unpublished, but maybe one day it will, it will
come out. And, and, and so it's, you know, people
(28:16):
have different definitions for what is it. But
the properties of a scalar wave that make it
unique is that, it's my understanding. And again,
I'm not a physicist. I'm, my background is in
clinical psychology. So I, I will do, I will have
this conversation to the best of my ability.
Meredith Oke (28:34):
We are having, we are telling the story of the
science.
Katelyn Lehman (28:37):
Yes, yes, exactly. We're not giving it, I'm not,
I'm not saying I have all.
Meredith Oke (28:41):
Okay, people.
Katelyn Lehman (28:44):
But, but these waves don't behave like
traditional waves in, in so much as they, when
they, when they're moving through space and they,
and they come up against physical matter, so say
a human body or a wall or whatever, they're
(29:04):
perceived to pass through it. So they're
omnipresent. Right. They're, they're, it's, it's
everywhere. It's almost like. Okay, you know,
and, and our kind of Newtonian physics,
understanding classical, you know, classical laws
of physics don't, doesn't really hold the
(29:26):
complexity of that. Like what, what do you mean?
Where, well, where does it. So it's almost like
you have to have a new, new framework in order
to, to understand this, which is why I really am
resonate with the, the concept or the idea that's
been posited of, you know, the holographic
(29:50):
principle that, you know, each atom contains
everything, all of the information from the
universe itself, right? Like that, every, the
smallest bit contains all, right? And so if you
think of the world in that way, well then maybe
these scalar waves are merely just the
(30:14):
communication between and among all of those
points. People may be familiar with the type of
art called pointillism, right, where each, you
stand far away from the painting and it looks
like a beautiful landscape, right? There's that
(30:36):
famous one of the guy holding the umbrella, the
couple walking through the park or something. I
forget who did it anyway, and then you come up to
the painting and you see it's actually just a
bunch of little dots, right? So if you think of
scalar energy as being this pluripotentiality,
(30:56):
right, perhaps like the Vedic traditions or the
Eastern philosophical traditions have talked
about, you know, the universe is, is the yin and
yang, the potential, right. I, I like to think of
scalar energy as, as the activation or the
awareness of that pure potentiality that exists
(31:16):
in every point in the field. Right. And that,
that then would make sense why these waves don't
stop at matter because matter is also just
another point on, in the larger tapestry of
existence. Right? So when, when we talk about,
(31:38):
you know, what it, okay, what is. So that's,
that's more of an abstract philosophical
conversation of what is scalar energy? The
ultimate, you know, response is well, we don't
really know. It sort of doesn't quite fit our
traditional models of understanding. But the best
way that I know how to describe it is that it,
that it's the activation of a, of some sort of
(31:59):
latent potentiality that exists. Right? Okay. And
then there, there are technologies, emergent
technologies coming on the market, and we have
one of those, there are many which, which uses
coils, hand wound copper coils that are
(32:22):
configured in a particular geometric patterning.
There are three coils and inert noble gases in
plasma tubes. So that then when the device is
turned on, purports to, again as I mentioned
earlier, sort of have a structuring effect. It
(32:44):
activates the potentiality within the field
generated in and around the technology itself
and, and audible frequencies are passed through
that, administered through headphones and a
vibrating waterbed. And the feedback that we get
(33:05):
from clients is that it's very supportive of any
kind of autonomic dysregulation. So any anxiety,
stress, emotional overwhelm. We get a lot of
people who deal with chronic inflammatory
diseases like fibromyalgia or there are lots of
(33:25):
them these days, people dealing with
comorbidities around pain, pain in the body, and
just kind of fog, Right. Mental fog, and that
they have this experience which lasts for about
45 minutes. They're exposed to these sound
frequencies in the body and through the ears, and
(33:48):
they're in this field, this structured field, and
it, and it brings the potentiality, the electric,
the electromagnetic current in the body up to its
fullest potential. Right. So it's like it wakes
things up, so to speak. And again, kind of tying
it into the realm of like, what is this quantum
(34:11):
world we're talking about? Well, it's the realm
of sensation, image, feeling or thought. And so
as people are having this experience of laying on
the bed and being. Being supported by a clinician
who, who orients them to the space and encourages
them to set an intention for their healing. You
know, we, we are very. At quantum clinic, we're
attuned to the relational and human qualities of
(34:35):
healing. Very much so. So that's an important
part of this. Right. And, and that often then
that process of connecting to one's intention or
whatever will evoke a particular type of journey.
Right. While you're receiving these frequencies,
some people go to the distant past, rate of their
(34:57):
souls, previous incarnations. Some people stay
very much in the body. Some people drift into a
state of sort of kind of sleep. Right. It really
depends on, you know, what's coming up for the
person or the individual. But what we've noticed
is that people then, when they exit that service
(35:20):
tend to feel much more embodied, present,
connected, grounded, less pain, less
inflammation. And. Yeah, that. I think, we think
that's a net positive for humanity right now.
Meredith Oke (35:34):
Yes, definitely. And I, yeah, I love these, these
technologies that are acknowledging this other
layer to existence that our traditional
understanding doesn't fully teach us, is there?
Yeah, because we're so, we're opening to the
(35:56):
healing, but we're also opening to seeing the
world this way, which will remain as part of your
life experience even after you've left the
session, I would imagine.
Katelyn Lehman (36:07):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Meredith Oke (36:13):
I was talking to someone, they. And they told me
a story about one of these like, scalar devices.
And the person was having like an energy reading
done of their home by an intuitive. And so the,
the intuitive was like reading the energy of the
house to see I, whatever, we, whatever you would
(36:36):
do that for. And yeah, she was like, oh, there's,
there's something, there's the frequency is much
higher like in this area, like in this closet or
there's something that's very much higher. And
they were like, oh, that's where we have our
scalar machine. That's where we have our scalar
device turned on because they had it like next to
(36:58):
their WI fi router or something. They put the
scalar there to balance it out. And that was the,
I heard that story. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm
curious about this now.
Katelyn Lehman (37:09):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (37:10):
How I mean it's just like a whole universe
happening that like right next to us and it's
just crazy to think about.
Katelyn Lehman (37:22):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, when we're, when
we're talking about, you know, intuitive energy
reading, you know, not non local awareness, all
of these things, you know, the quantum realm
really does, at least in part, it's my belief
(37:47):
provider, the basis for those experiences. Right.
Like I, I, I, you know, it's funny, I hesitate to
talk too much about it because again, like we
live in a, in a very complex time in human
history and I think that, that women in
particular, but also men who have practiced
(38:12):
indigenous ways of knowing and, and this kind of
deeper unified field which we are all a part of,
right. We're a node in the larger infinite field
of energy and information. And, and if we accept
(38:32):
that consciousness is the floor or the, the
ground of existence, if you will, which expresses
itself through biological adaptations and
geological processes and all of these things,
well then at least hypothetically it is possible
(38:53):
to know things in ways that are not limited by
our present time space continuum. Right. That
there is a way in which we can access that deeper
(39:13):
intelligence, that deeper knowing. And that
example you shared of your friend or whomever,
you know, having an intuitive do an energy
reading and whoa, lo and behold, like they
actually said there is a closet over there that
like is pinging my sensors, right. That, that,
that it's becoming, it's becoming more and more
(39:35):
difficult to dismiss those because of the
preponderance of evidence that those things are.
Well, yeah, there's like this thing here that
I'm, that I'm running right now. Like yeah, of
course there would, you would notice that. Like
so, and, and you know, remote healings, distance
healings, telepathic communication between hearts
(39:59):
and souls. These, these are all things that, that
would get you burned at the stake for heresy at
many times throughout human history. And so I
think, you know, Rightfully so many women,
especially those of us, you know, out here doing
the good work. Right. Like, are hesitant to. To
(40:23):
speak about in greater depth or. Or outside of
circles that feel really, really safe to do so.
Right. Because it does at times border on the
miraculous, but it's also becoming more. More
cultural, culturally accepted. Right. Like the
Autism Files or the. Did you hear. Did you watch
that podcast or.
Meredith Oke (40:44):
Oh, the Telepathy tapes.
Katelyn Lehman (40:46):
Thank you. Yes, the Telepathy tapes. You know,
they're primarily interviewing people on the, on
the spectrum. And, and so, you know, that's like,
again, as we're, as we're moving forward as a
collective, as a species, I do think this moment
(41:06):
in time calls for, you know, sort of an
acknowledgement and a recognition of ancient
truths to be re remembered by those of us who are
here now, and that we should be courageous in
communicating about those experiences. Within
(41:27):
reason.
Meredith Oke (41:28):
Yes. Because I'm glad you brought the Telepathy
tapes up because, I mean, it was a profoundly
beautiful piece of art that she made with that
podcast. But what really landed for me was how
popular it was. I think for a couple of weeks it
(41:51):
was the number one podcast in the United States,
if not more places, which is like tens of
millions of downloads.
Katelyn Lehman (42:01):
Well, so.
Meredith Oke (42:02):
And I. What you're saying is like, we're. Yeah,
it be. It was above Joe Rogan for a while there.
So it's like we're so timid to.
Katelyn Lehman (42:12):
Say it, but everybody wants to hear it. Yeah,
yeah, but. Because even Joe Rogan, like, I mean,
you know, who's. He's the number one. Right.
Like, he talks about that stuff.
Meredith Oke (42:24):
Yeah. And then he had her on his podcast, the.
The producer, which I thought was lovely.
Katelyn Lehman (42:30):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (42:32):
Yes. And those are the moments because, yeah, I
do. I do think there is that current of fear. I
do, you know, and I see it. You know, I had a
lovely scientist on here who. He's like an
astrophysicist who got really involved in his
retirement, looking at infrared light and how it
(42:54):
impacts.
Katelyn Lehman (42:57):
Our bodies.
Meredith Oke (42:57):
And how it goes through our bodies. And it's like
such cool. He's doing such cool research, like,
just at home because he's retired. And at the
end, I was like, just very gently, like, oh, has
this research sort of changed your view of the
world or the universe? And he was like, oh, I
don't know what you're talking about. Of course
(43:20):
not. This is science. I was like, okay, okay,
okay. So, yeah, so it's sort of like, I do think
for men, especially in a certain field, there
they are also very protective of their
reputations and don't want to be associated with
the woo woo stuff.
Katelyn Lehman (43:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Meredith Oke (43:40):
But then, yeah, I've been finding more and more
it's like when you, you, you put it out there and
it lands like with people where I never would
have expected it to land.
Katelyn Lehman (43:49):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to say one more thing
about, about this paradigm because, and, and
specifically as, as it interacts with gendered
norms, personality types and psychopathology,
(44:13):
right? Because, just because we now have the
language to back up intuitive understanding,
alternate modes of knowing with science, right?
As science is described in a very narrow frame of
understanding, again. Right. That doesn't mean
(44:38):
that those things were not true or throughout
human history. It just means that we now have the
language to validate it. Right. But men, I'm
gonna say it, men have been systematically
invalidating these experiences which are
(45:00):
traditionally conceived of and, and known more by
women, right. That, that they have systematically
undercut and invalidated, invalidated those modes
of knowing. And that still happens today. Right.
(45:20):
Just because someone is a notable figure in a
particular scientific discipline does not mean
that they're also not enacting profoundly
narcissistic, ego driven, selfish, you know, self
protective defense mechanisms, right. As a way
(45:43):
to, to, to, you know, compensate for adversity
they perhaps experienced in childhood. And that
those, those patterns of harm that exist in the
interpersonal worlds, right? The relationships
that, that evolve between peoples, right. Like
(46:05):
none of this quantum biology stuff changes that.
Right. The harm that's perpetuated the, the
pathology that's enacted right over millennia is
still operating in the present. Just because
(46:26):
somebody studies this area doesn't make them
capable of, of empathy. And that's a harsh
reality that we have to face, you know,
especially as women in our world.
Meredith Oke (46:47):
Yes. And I, I appreciate you articulating that
because that is, does happen and is happening.
And it's really disconcerting for those of us who
see it from the perspective that we're talking
(47:07):
about because you have people using the same
language and it's like, you know, I was talking
to someone and she's like, how can so and so and
so and so be talking about the quantum field, be
talking about biophysics and quantum, quantum
biology and not understand that they're part of
their behavior is affecting their words, the way
(47:31):
they treat people.
Katelyn Lehman (47:33):
Yep.
Meredith Oke (47:33):
And it doesn't, it's like exactly what you just
described is happening.
Katelyn Lehman (47:40):
Right. And that's been happening for millennia.
Right. People usurping spiritual language and now
they're usurping the, the, the language du jour,
right, which is this unified field and, and love
and light and all of that stuff there. It's a,
it's a form of, you know, misappropriation of
(48:01):
spiritual teachings for, for their own self
interest and to assert dominance and power and
control in interpersonal relationships. Right. So
that, that is, is still, I would argue, like a
(48:21):
much more critical imperative for us to address
collectively. And again, it's all, it's all
happening simultaneously. But you know, people,
people are people and we all have these
incredibly self destructive and malicious and,
(48:41):
and base kind of instincts within us. And
ultimately where, where, where it lands for me is
falling back on kind of traditional Buddhist
principles of, of, you know, not doing harm.
Right? How, how do I take these teachings and
(49:02):
apply them in my own life and in such a way that
I am not contributing to greater harm? And when I
am confronted by adversity or, you know, whatever
the case may be, okay, am I a courageous and
competent adult who is capable of showing up in
(49:30):
ways that is respectful, that is reciprocal, and
that is grounded in the creation of a shared
understanding of reality? Because as we move away
from having a rigid, you know, finite, concrete
understanding of reality towards a more
(49:52):
pluralistic or, you know, multiple realities can
coexist, then it becomes about our ability to
navigate that, to negotiate that, to have the
dialogue, that. That creates a foundation for a
shared consensus. Right. That's, you know,
(50:16):
that's, I think, why we're in such a mess
geopolitically and culturally right now. Why so
strong men are taking power across the globe?
Because people are like, what is this? They don't
know what to do with all of this. The polarity,
the splitting, the perceptual fragments that are
(50:39):
manifesting on the larger scale. So I'm not sure
that I did justice to that talking point, but I
think it's an important one to continue to
explore as we, as we grow together, you know?
Meredith Oke (50:55):
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you brought it
up. And you know, for me it's like remembering it
starts with it within me. 100 and I can talk
about quantum entanglement. It's like, what am I
contributing to that field? And if we all, you
know, we all started there. Yeah. Caitlin, this
(51:16):
has been so delightful. Please let us know where
people can find you.
Katelyn Lehman (51:20):
Sure, yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:21):
Continue there.
Katelyn Lehman (51:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:23):
Their journey.
Katelyn Lehman (51:24):
Check it out. So you can find me on Instagram
@Doctor Caitlin Layman or Facebook or, you know,
anywhere, anywhere you find your people. And you
can check out quantumclinic.com and I'll send you
a link to my online course that maybe you can
(51:44):
include in the show notes.
Meredith Oke (51:46):
Sure, I would love to. So, yeah, that's Dr.
Caitlin and it's Caitlin. K A T E L Y N Lehman L
E H M A N this was delightful. And we will have
to do it again sometime.
Katelyn Lehman (51:59):
Wonderful. Thanks so much, Meredith.
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