July 31, 2025 • 57 mins
📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube
"Our microhabitat is completely different from the microhabitat that we had 150, even 200 years ago," says Lilliana Lettieri, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to reveal how our modern light environment is fundamentally altering our biology. Together with Peter Veto, Lettieri is pioneering a revolutionary technology that could transform our relationship with screens: monitors that emit actual sunlight. This groundbreaking innovation channels daylight through fiber optic cables, potentially eliminating the need for blue light filters and other mitigation strategies.
In this illuminating discussion, Lettieri and Veto explain how our current digital displays bombard our cells with unnatural light cues, contributing to a host of health issues from eye strain to metabolic disruptions. They share their personal health journeys that led them to this work, and how their diverse backgrounds in biology, psychophysics, and consumer electronics converged to create this sunlight-powered screen technology.
Tune in to today's episode to learn why your office lighting might be secretly sabotaging your health, how fiber optics could bring healing sunlight into windowless spaces, and why the future of screens might be brighter—literally—than we ever imagined.
5 Key Takeaways
1. Sign up for Pixun's newsletter and follow them on social media to support the development of sunlight-powered monitors. This helps demonstrate interest to potential investors.
2. Consider how sunlight-powered screens could benefit environments like elder care facilities, hospitals, and schools without adequate natural light exposure.
3. While waiting for sunlight screens to become available, continue mitigating the effects of current screens by using blue light filters and taking regular breaks.
4. Recognize that digital eye strain can come from multiple factors beyond just blue light, including flicker and narrow light spectrums. A holistic approach to eye health is important.
5. Stay informed about emerging technologies like Pixun that aim to make our digital interactions healthier. Being an early adopter and advocate can help shape a better future.
Memorable Quotes
"Our microhabitat is completely different from what we had 150 or 200 years ago. Within that, we're bombarding our eyes with a very specific cue that our cells and bodies are feeling, even if we don't consciously see it." - Lilliana Lettieri
"We have so many products to mitigate the effects of screens, which shows there's a problem. None of them truly work, because we keep having to use them. Digital eye strain can come from many causal pathways - spectrum issues, flicker issues - and it's hard to figure out which one affects you." - Peter Veto
"Screens are the only lighting application where the intended use is to look directly into the light source for several hours every day. It's a concentrated and impactful application, which is why we shouldn't focus solely on energy efficiency." - Peter Veto
Connect with Peter & Lilliana
Website: https://www.pixun.co/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pixun.technologies/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Pixun-Technologies
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pixun-technologies/
Liliana...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lilliana Lettieri (00:00):
Our microhabitat is completely different from the
microhabitat that we had 150, even 200 years ago.
It's completely different. And within that
microhabitat that has a very different light
structure, let's say, you know, if you're to see
what's around there, the wavelengths and the
(00:21):
intensity of the light and all of that, it's
completely different. And then within that, we're
also additionally bombarding our eyes with a
very, very specific cue that even though we don't
see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily
in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling
(00:41):
it, our bodies are feeling it.
Meredith Oke (00:43):
Welcome to the QVC podcast, where we explore new
paradigms in health and science that have a
meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm
your host, Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.
I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue
and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.
(01:03):
I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away
in an ivory tower. And that wisdom can be found
in many places and understood by all of us. To
keep in touch with this podcast, the QVC free
community, our episode guide, and all the show
notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's
(01:26):
get together to create the future we all want to
live in. Okay, you guys, the guests on my show
today are making something that is so super cool.
I don't, I don't even know what to say. It's like
the craziest thing. And I have to say, Peter Vito
(01:47):
and Liliana Lettiari, who are my guests today,
have been working on this for a couple of years.
They've been on my radar and, and you know, they,
we even did a deep dive with them in QVC Pro in
deep into their science. And I'm kind of
embarrassed to say. I was sort of paid attention
(02:10):
to what they were talking about, but not really
until I decided to have them on my podcast and I
started really looking at what they were making.
I was like, oh, okay, yeah, it's a, it's a new
kind of screen. All right, that sounds good.
Like, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then I
started to research what exactly these guys are
(02:30):
doing, and it's crazy.
Lilliana Lettieri (02:34):
I'm like, what?
Meredith Oke (02:35):
How are we not all so super excited about this?
Okay, so when I explain it to you, you're going
to get really excited. It's not available yet.
They're still, you know, building out the
prototype and working on getting their company
going, but what they've done is they've created a
monitor. So a screen that can be used for,
(02:57):
attached to any computer. You could use it as a
television. You know, it's a monitor that is lit.
The light coming out of it is sunlight. Yes,
Correct. The monitor emits sunlight. The sunlight
is collected outside, travels through a fiber
(03:21):
optic cable and, and comes out of the screen.
Like, what? So now it's not. We're not trying to
mitigate. We don't have to do all these hacks to
mitigate the toxic light coming out of the
screen. The light coming out of the screen could
actually just be sunlight. Yes, yes, yes. We
(03:44):
still want to go outside and do all of those
things, but what if the time that we did have to
spend on a screen was good for us? Like, it's
crazy and this thing actually works. It's real.
So I, I'm going to let them get into it and
explain the story of how this all happened.
(04:04):
Liliana and Peter both have PhDs. Peter has a PhD
in psychophysics. And Liana, Liliana is more
cross disciplinary. She studied a lot of
different kinds of sciences. So this is one of
those situations where it's like, as with
anything that is working in the world today, it's
(04:26):
interdisciplinary, it's abolishing silos. It's
people with different backgrounds coming together
and going, what if we did this? What if we tried
this? Peter's really focused on the science and
Liliana is building out the business and I
couldn't be more excited to support them in that
endeavor. So enjoy this conversation. In the
(04:47):
meantime, since a sunlit screen is currently not
in any of our living rooms or on our desks or on
our tables or on our screened in porches where I
currently am, we still should be mindful of how
we use them and, you know, download all the
(05:07):
filters for during the day. That's what I do. If
people are like, why are you wearing blue clips?
You don't wear blue blockers during the day. I
use, I use the iris filter and I during the day
and then in the evening if I need to be on a
screen or I'd like to watch a movie or a TV show
with my family, I put on the blue blockers, which
I get from boncharge.com our partner on this
(05:29):
podcast. So if you are using a screen and you
don't have blue blockers, you should really go
get some. The code is QBC at checkout for a
discount. And now back to the future of screens
with Liliana and Peter. Peter Vito. Liliana
Latieri. Welcome to the QVC podcast. I'm really
(05:50):
excited to have you both here. For people who
don't know, I mean, I just will have said it in
the intro, but you're working on some really
exciting technology that literally brings
sunlight into our computer monitors. So we're
going to get into it. But I first want to ask how
you both arrived at this project. It's in some
(06:14):
ways seems so intuitively correct and in other
ways is just completely cutting edge and mind
blowing that you're doing this. Love to hear how
you ended up making a sunlight fueled screen.
Lilliana Lettieri (06:29):
Yeah. So I'll give you a little bit of my
background because I think in context, maybe it
makes a little bit more sense about how I met up
with Peter and why it all made sense to me
immediately. So I was trained in biology. I
worked looking at organisms and how they signal
(06:55):
and use color and light to interact and, and to
survive in their specific environments. So what I
learned was all about vision and how colors and
wavelengths move through the environment in very
specific ways and in specific channels. And you
(07:17):
know, what we tend to think of as color is based
on our categorical way of using light to
interpret our environment with our specific
cones. Right. But bees or mantis shrimp or birds,
they all have very different ways of interpreting
their environment. So that's sort of always been
(07:37):
an understanding. And then I eventually moved
into the business world, into signaling in a very
different way in home electronics, consumer
electronics, and learned about Bluetooth and WI
(07:57):
fi and how data is brought in to your home and
signaled throughout the environment. And so
that's sort of where I came to this understanding
when I reached sort of my, my health awakening,
if you will. That, that then brought me to, to
(08:17):
meet Peter.
Meredith Oke (08:20):
That is so fascinating. And of course, what
strikes me first is, and I find this with
everybody who has deep insights in this field is
that there's almost always overlapping fields
that aren't necessarily ever supposed to, under
normal circumstances, talk to each other. So in
(08:41):
your case, you were looking at biology and
specifically how insects see. And then you moved
into a job that required you to understand how we
receive technology into our lives in our homes.
Lilliana Lettieri (08:55):
Right. So it was actually fishes, believe it or
not. So I was actually setting up things to
measure light and communication with color
underwater in big contrast and building rigs, you
know, that would hold a camera and taking
(09:16):
measurements with little underwater contraptions
and trying to figure out how organisms
communicate to each other in the ocean. So then
moving into technology, you know, it's a whole
new world. But to me, it all Interconnects very
much. I mean, I was trained as an
(09:37):
interdisciplinary scientist. I took classes with
chemists and engineers, and, you know, the whole
idea was to sort of like, bring these fields
together, learn how to talk to one another in a
way that's not so, you know, filled with jargon,
that you're like, I don't know what you're
talking about. You know, that I can see that
you're very smart, but I don't understand what
(09:58):
you're, what you're speaking about. So we learned
to talk to one another, you know, in a common
language. And I think that that has served me,
you know, down the road to be able to talk to
people from different fields and understand that
we're, We're. We're. We're tackling the same
problem, but from very different, you know,
(10:20):
expertise. So.
Meredith Oke (10:23):
Oh, I love that. And, you know, I really think
that, yeah, this siloing of science and research
and even industries, you know, you have like, the
FTC regulating ems, and they don't, like, what
did the FTC know about biology? Like, they went
to decide, make business decisions. Right. Like,
(10:43):
so this, this siloing has been hugely
detrimental, I think, to civilization. So I love
that you're weaving things together and doing it
in a way where you can talk about it publicly.
My, My soapbox right now is that science needs
storytellers. I, you know, everyone I talk to,
it's like, I know we're just at the beginning of.
The beginning of understanding things, but
(11:04):
there's so much science there. Like, there's so
much. And I think a lot of people, myself
included, have kind of labored under the belief
that once there's enough science to prove
something, we'll just all magically know, right?
Lilliana Lettieri (11:18):
We'll just all get it, shift to the new right
thing.
Meredith Oke (11:21):
And I'm like, oh, no, that's not how it works.
Okay, so, Peter, tell us your way into this world.
Peter Veto (11:33):
Yeah, to connect to all of this, beyond the
interdisciplinary background, of course, to
pixel, and also to what we do, which is similar
in that sense to that of Liliana's. The other
common thread, I believe, is the personal
involvement or having had the experience of
health issues which relate to light and how
(11:56):
increasing exposure to daylight can help with
that and otherwise. I was also a researcher
first, so before 2020, I was a researcher in
psychophysics, studying human vision and
perception, starting with electrophyll.
Meredith Oke (12:10):
Okay, sorry, hang on. What is psychophysics? Tell
us more about that. That sounds cool.
Peter Veto (12:16):
Psychophysics is basically measuring something in
physical reality and using that as a stimulus and
then measuring on the other end of the
interaction something in the psychological realms
to how animals or humans in my case react to
that. Basically my main topics were around
vision, so how we see things. And firstly
(12:38):
starting with electrophysiology, so EEG and tms,
which is measuring electric waves from outside of
the skull, so electric activity of the brain. And
then TMS is using electromagnetic policies to
induce some activity in the brain. But then I
moved on to psychophysics, which is kind of
(12:59):
leaving this middle ground of the messy
neuroscience part out and measures on what is
more tangible. And so that came in my career, I
think more just accidentally. But looking back,
I'm very, very grateful for that because it
brought me much closer to whatever is pragmatic.
(13:22):
So measuring really reality and not just trying
to figure out through some modeling what's going
on inside. The biggest issue there being with all
the neuroscience stuff, is that no one really
understands what the brain does. So that's how I
got to vision and action as well. So I was using
their eye tracking, pupilometry, motion capture,
(13:43):
stuff like that.
Meredith Oke (13:45):
Okay, so I heard some interesting things in your
answer as well, which is that a lot of brain
science is done based on modeling and you prefer
to work on actual observations, which I think is
also really in the wheelhouse that we're all
operating in, which is how does this science help
(14:05):
people right now? What choices can I make in my
life, in my day to day life that's going to help
me right now versus just funneling it into
research and research and research that never
quite bridges into real life. And it's
interesting, I was YouTube served me up a video
just yesterday of some neuroscience guy who was
(14:28):
like, well, psychology and philosophy are fine,
but it's really neuroscience because now we know
that this part of the brain does this, and this
part of the brain, I'm like, you don't know
anything. Shut up. You and your 28 million, 28
million views on YouTube. But I just, it, it's
interesting to me the certainty with which people
(14:49):
can convey things that they've studied that
aren't, you know, really necessarily the whole
story at all.
Peter Veto (14:57):
Absolutely. And the other thing that connects to
here with what you said, is that we know plenty
enough to do better in lighting in this place. So
looking for impact, I was thinking I could do
some more research and write papers which will be
read by a few more academics and that's it. But
actually we know plenty enough to know how it can
(15:18):
be done better. And of course, daylight being the
optimal Light source, it just really seemed
trivial, but also, again, from personal
experience and other backgrounds to how Pixar
came to be. But this is one of it that it's
always cool to know more and to dig into
mechanisms, but if we can see which light source
(15:41):
works better for people, that's a very simple
thing. I think we know plenty enough about that
to know how we could do better.
Meredith Oke (15:48):
Yeah, exactly. It's like, okay, oh, this is
clear. Like, let's take some. Make some practical
changes to the world. So tell me, tell me about
your personal health story that led you to this
and your epiphany about daylight.
Peter Veto (16:02):
In my case, this started really in 2018. I was a
postdoc at Cambridge and working mainly in a dark
length. So for these vision experiments and
humans, we of course need a controlled light
environment. So it's all dark with electric
lighting and mainly display. So that's where I
spent most of my day. And when I was not there,
my office setup was really not very ergonomic. So
(16:25):
the only chance I had to play somewhere desktop
monitor was right in a west facing window. So it
was always sunny when I got to that point in my
day to use it. And I had to block the window and
block the sun completely. And so that's when I
was starting to think that I could just get rid
of the backside of the monitor and use the
sunlight for that. And meanwhile, because of more
(16:47):
work and other issues, I also had increasing
symptoms of light sensitivity. And I was looking
for answers for that, which my professional
really couldn't give. Again, it's not
interdisciplinary enough so that lighting
research would be connected enough to basic
vision science, which, the latter, of course, was
my field at that, at that time, let alone to
(17:10):
anything. And that has to do with light
physiology. And so that's when I started to learn
more about this and realize that this is about so
much more than.
Meredith Oke (17:21):
So the requirements of your job where you were in
darkness a lot during the day. Is that right? And
then in front of your computer in the. So you had
like dark mornings, computer lit afternoons. Is
that sort of. That was the setup of your life and
then started to take a toll?
Peter Veto (17:40):
Yes, definitely. Yes. And when I could have had a
sun office space, I had to block the sun to even
be able to see the monitor.
Meredith Oke (17:48):
Okay.
Peter Veto (17:48):
So I was thinking if I could channel the sun into
the display, that would help with both. Both
problems.
Meredith Oke (17:58):
Wow, I love how your brain works. So what were
some of the symptoms that you noticed when you
were living a life where it was you had Darkness
for the first half of the day and then computer
monitor light in the second half of the day. How
were you feeling physically, mentally, like what
was going on?
Peter Veto (18:16):
I think I have always had some sensitivities and
especially for light, light sources which are
weird. And that really started with car
headlights a little earlier when LED headlights
started to become more popular and I realized
that I no longer enjoy driving at night and it
took some while to even figure out why. And
(18:36):
obviously that means that my symptoms were not so
severe. But then this got much worse when I spend
more time indoors, more time in front of computer
screens and that then connects to headaches, all
sorts of other issues and just eye strain in
general with various symptoms. Part of that can
also be temporary myopia which I experienced
(18:59):
periodically, which is interesting because in my
adolescent years I was myopic and then I kind of
successfully trained myself out of it because I
was lucky enough to be sent to a more forward
thinking ophthalmologist who didn't just
prescribe sunglasses, but also gave exercises and
good advice, which in my case were wow. But I
(19:22):
guess I'm still myopic in the sense that the
symptoms can come back. And so this place can
induce temporary myopia in many people. And it's
still a somewhat open question how much that
translates to longer term myopia. It seems to do
translate to some degree and in my case that that
is also part of the symptoms that I can
(19:43):
experience. So I guess there are these flashbacks
of blurry vision even though normally I don't
have it and I don't need glasses any longer even
for driving.
Meredith Oke (19:54):
Wow. So you were having headaches and eye strain
and your. My myopia was getting worse.
Peter Veto (20:02):
Yes, that's right. And I, I never have had that.
Meredith Oke (20:04):
And then when you changed and had a. Yeah, when
you changed your lighting environment to get more
daylight during the day, what happened?
Peter Veto (20:11):
Yeah, so this got pretty much fixed through just
more, more awareness of how to organize my day
and how to be exposed to daylight increasingly
starting from the morning because I'm. I was
especially then more sunsens as well. So it
really needs to start gently and with daylight.
And that just helps and reduces all the
(20:32):
sensitivity symptoms also to bright sources
including headlights. And it doesn't go away. And
who knows why that is the case really. I don't
think we understand why some people are sensitive
to LEDs and others not. There are many aspects to
this, but at least you can reduce the symptoms by
just being more aligned to nature.
Meredith Oke (20:55):
Yes, and that's true A lot of the time when I
talk to people about this, they're like, oh, I
can't go outside. Like, it's too bright. My eyes
are, you know, and that's actually a symptom of
not being outside enough. So what you're saying
is you went out, you started early in the morning
before it's like super, super bright and, and
gradually adjusted. Seems like a good way to do
it.
Peter Veto (21:14):
Exactly. This is huge. And so many people say
that, oh, the sun is stronger now than it used to
be. And as children they were, whatever, playing
outdoor all day long and it didn't burn them. And
it doesn't even occur to them that it's not so
much probably the sun that changed, but they
have, right?
Meredith Oke (21:33):
Yeah. Their environment, their indoor environment
has changed, which has made us more sensitive to
our outdoor environment. Liliana, what's your
story of coming to understand how important light
is and natural light is in terms of overall
health?
Lilliana Lettieri (21:49):
Yeah, so I would say after about a decade in
academic research, which was many times in labs
and, you know, very controlled lighting
environments and indoors largely, and then
transitioning into the business world where I was
often on calls with international teams before
(22:12):
sunrise and then after sunset and just, you know,
a lot of screen time, a lot of indoor office
spaces and a lot of exposure to different
communication varieties, I started to experience
sort of weird metabolic related symptoms, you
(22:34):
know, and, and I sort of first attributed it to,
oh, it seems like it's maybe early menopause,
early perimenopause and you know, hot flashes,
night sweats, headaches, insomnia, dopamine
dysregulation, just all kinds of weird things
that, you know, if, if I talk to people, they're
(22:55):
like, oh, you're just getting older, that's
normal. And, and I, and I, you know, I, I sort of
took that as the acceptance storyline at the
time. And then it started to really feel like
this isn't quite, I don't really feel like this
is the root, this isn't really what's happening.
So I started to really do some more research and
(23:19):
when I started to learn more about this, you
know, the circadian science and really started
to, you know, recognize and make the connection
between like, oh, my natural environment is very
unnatural and so maybe I need to really realign.
And so when I started to do that, these symptoms
started to go away on their own. And, and you
(23:42):
know, and then I was, then I, it was like the
light bulb really went off and I was like, okay,
I really need to learn a lot more about this and,
and I really started to piece together that,
well, two things that one of the things that I
had been attributing to just general, you know,
(24:03):
getting, getting older and perimenopause was
really mitochondrial energy loss. That, that was
really what was at the root of my symptoms. And
the more that I did things to give my cells what
they needed to be able to recharge and repair
those symptoms just went away. And the other
(24:24):
thing that I really learned was that there was a
lot of screen time in my life and that it was, it
was a huge part of the stressor that would
trigger when I would, when I would struggle with
the symptoms. So. Yeah. Wow.
Meredith Oke (24:41):
And did, did it, did you connect back to when
you'd done your work with animals and how
everything about them was based on their
environment?
Lilliana Lettieri (24:49):
Totally.
Meredith Oke (24:50):
It's like for us, whatever, yeah, we're. I'll
just be on zoom nine hours a day. It's fine.
Lilliana Lettieri (24:55):
Yeah, exactly. It was like it all just came right
back and I was like, oh, our microhabitat is
completely different from the microhabitat that
we had 150, even 200 years ago. You know, it's
completely different. And within that
microhabitat that has a very different light
(25:17):
structure. Let's say, you know, if you're to see
what's around there, the wavelengths and the
intensity of the light and all of that, it's
completely different. And then within that, we're
also additionally bombarding our eyes with a
very, very specific cue that even though we don't
(25:39):
see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily
in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling
it, our bodies are feeling it, they are getting
that signal through our eyes. You know,
subconsciously, invisibly, secretly, whatever you
want to call it, the body is aware of it. Even
(25:59):
though we as, you know, organisms with a fancy
eyeball that has some very fancy cones and rods
that can help us attune to our environment. I
think what we often forget is that there's so
much information flying around on so many
channels. And in order to survive, we as
(26:20):
organisms, every organism, we actually have to
filter out a lot of information. And that
information is filtered out to help us survive.
Right. There's only so much information we can
process. But when that happens, I think we as
humans with our big fancy brains, we start to
(26:41):
think, well, this is just all I need to pay
attention to is what I can see and what I can
perceive and everything else doesn't matter or,
or everything else that I don't need to pay
attention to becomes inconsequential when the
reality is our bodies are very attuned to
everything going on around us.
Meredith Oke (27:02):
Yes, yes. And when you. When you start to look at
it from the subatomic level, which we can't see
at all, but we know exists, it's like those
frequencies are like tractors driving through the
living room to ourselves.
Lilliana Lettieri (27:22):
Right, right, Absolutely.
Meredith Oke (27:25):
Okay, so how did you connect with Peter and
decide to, like, fully shift into. Into this as
your. As your main thing?
Lilliana Lettieri (27:38):
Yeah, so Peter and I met when I was starting to
look for just other people in the community who
were doing something that I felt like I could. I
could believe in. You know, like, I felt like I
had been in this consumer electronics world for
so, you know, almost a decade. I had really, you
(28:01):
know, shifted my awareness to be like, this stuff
is killing us. We need to do this tech better.
You know, and it. I mean, you know, literally, co
workers who had, you know, been very healthy,
gone to the gym, they did all the things, you
know, started to drop off because they had cancer
and they had to, you know, just leave. So, you
(28:25):
know, it. It was time for me to really look for
something that. That made more sense to me
professionally. And so I. When I met Peter, you
know, he had already developed this amazing
technology, and I immediately was like, I know
how to build these things because this is what I
do for my job. You know, I was project managing,
(28:49):
building electronics that go in people's homes,
working with the factories, working with the
engineering teams, you know, making sure it's got
all the features and all the parts that we need
to get it out there. And, you know, I. When I.
When we had our first conversation, I was like, I
think we can. I think we can do this. Like, I
think I can help. I can. I can bring something to
(29:11):
the table here. So. So, yeah, I was excited.
Meredith Oke (29:14):
Oh, that's so cool.
Lilliana Lettieri (29:16):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (29:16):
Oh, I love this. Okay. So you brought all of that
valuable experience and knowledge and
understanding of supply chain things and all
that, that stuff.
Lilliana Lettieri (29:29):
All that fun stuff, all that stuff that makes me.
Meredith Oke (29:34):
Good night. But yes, it's very important if you
want to make things. I totally, I value that. So
you brought that to the table and then Peter
brought the technology, which so. And I love this
story. So, Peter, it's like one of those aha
moments. You're sitting in your office, you've
started to understand how important natural light
(29:55):
is. You realize that you're blocking out the
sunlight coming through your western facing
window in order to see Your monitor. And you're
like, wait a minute, what if the sun was the
light source for the monitor? Like, so. Good.
Peter Veto (30:09):
Thank you. Good summary.
Meredith Oke (30:10):
What happened?
Peter Veto (30:12):
Much better than that.
Meredith Oke (30:15):
So you had this epiphany and then what'd you do?
Peter Veto (30:18):
Yeah, and then I. Well, I built it. I started to
experiment, and I started with how many others
have to remove the backside of an LCD to somehow
gather daylight directly and channel it into the
display? And first I wanted to use louvers. And
that was an idea with which I experimented with
(30:39):
and realized that in some cases it might work,
but it will never work for any broader use case.
And even in a single use case, it so much depends
on the angle of the sun, which keeps changing
throughout the day. And later, Ezai, a small
startup, did a product which did something
extremely similar, but instead of louvers, they
(31:00):
just had the backside of the display to open. And
then you can change that angle to hopefully
channel more light from whatever direction, maybe
from a window into the display. And it kind of
works, but not really. So they also for their
next round of products, immediately they moved on
to rscd, which is then what Hisense and Sun
(31:22):
Vision Display and Daylight Computer and all the
others are doing. But nobody has really managed
to get this daylight collection to work properly.
And then as a next stage, I thought, okay, we
have to concentrate sunlight. So I started with
larger Fresnel lenses to collect light from a
larger surface in the window and channel into the
(31:44):
display. And maybe to try to direct them to with
lens arrays, which can change the direction of
daylight. But of course, again, daylight is very
diffuse and it keeps changing its angle with the
sun. So then sooner I realized that this is the
same situation, just a little better. It might
work, but definitely not in all the cases where I
(32:06):
want it to work. And even then, you need to be in
the window or very close for this to work. And
then meanwhile, I moved back to Germany. I was
doing another postdoc at Ulm, and I got some help
from an optics professor at. And then it slowly
became clear that really the way to do this
(32:27):
properly is to collect daylight outside and use a
fiber optic cable to channel it indoors. And then
you can use it anywhere, and then you can use it
in the basement, in a windowless office,
anywhere. And it's going to be an intense light
source, because the issue with all the displays
is that you need much more light than what you
(32:48):
have just from a reflective surface of the same
size of your display, because it needs to pass
through so many layers to give you the colored
image. And because of that, any reflective
display, any other daylight technology, will
always look much dimmer than if you just place a
white piece of paper next to it. So generally
they are too dim. And that's also why the image
(33:10):
quality has to be low for it to work. But if you
can concentrate daylight, then you can achieve
all the visual qualities of regular desktop
monitors while using daylight, so. While also
offering all the health benefits and comfort
benefits of anything that is daylight. And so
that's when it really started. 2019, I guess, the
(33:35):
first prototyping. Of course, many iterations
came, but that's when the concept started to
solidify.
Meredith Oke (33:44):
Okay, so I heard you describing this on another
call and you were like, oh, yes, all this
technology, we just do this. And I'm thinking,
I'm like, wait a minute, did Peter just say that
he's got a cable channeling sunlight into my,
into the monitor? And so the light coming out of
(34:06):
the monitor is full spectrum sunlight. I know you
mentioned you blocked uv, but other than that,
like, is that what's happening?
Peter Veto (34:15):
Yes, it is. And of course it's not my invention.
So these tools have existed.
Meredith Oke (34:18):
This seems like amazing.
Peter Veto (34:20):
No, no, no.
Meredith Oke (34:21):
Sorry, you're okay. Yeah.
Peter Veto (34:22):
These tools have existed for 60 years or more.
The thing is that they have a very niche market
because they compete with Windows. So they are
adding a space. It is much cheaper and simpler if
you just use Windows or even light tunnels. But
for display, they cannot work, and that's why
they are very useful. So I guess I just connect
(34:42):
it to Fields and then what needed to be
engineered by us, and the proprietary part is the
backlighting architecture of Pixan. So how do you
deal with a very intense and small light source
and spread that light evenly on the back surface
of the lcd, while of course also having an
electric light source. You need that whenever
sunlight is not available. And to have a
(35:04):
standalone, fully usable display also for the
nighttime.
Meredith Oke (35:08):
Okay, this is just really crazy to me. So,
Liliana, how would you explain what's happening
here? And how did you first wrap your head around
it? Because I hear Peter saying, oh, there's been
versions of this technology where you put
sunlight through a cable. Really? There has been.
And like, could we people use that to light their
(35:29):
basements? But I'll hold that question. Just,
let's just stay focused on this on the other
monitor for now.
Lilliana Lettieri (35:35):
Yes. So when Peter first explained it, I also
kind of had to ask a few follow up questions. I
was like, wait a minute, so you're, you're
powering the monitor. And he's like, no, no, not
with solar panels, solar collectors. So it's, you
know, these lenses that are collecting and then
(35:55):
concentrating light and then using fiber optics,
which is, you know, in the communications world,
that's what we use to bring in data instead of
photons necessarily. But the, the fiber optics
are the same, right? I mean, you know, my mind
immediately went to, oh, yeah, you know, people
(36:16):
used to put satellite dishes on their homes, you
know, to collect information. And then, you know,
we use fiber optics to bring data into our homes
and then we connect it to our little. So it was
like all the pieces made, sentiment, made sense
to me. But when he said it, I was like, oh, yeah,
that's what we should be doing. We should be
(36:39):
using the sunlight to backlight the monitor,
because the monitor has these very, very narrow
wavelengths that are only indivisible. We're
missing all of that, you know, beautiful,
restorative, regenerative part of the spectrum.
The part that you go out, you know, early in the
(36:59):
morning to collect, to get everything going and
healing. And, you know, people are now using
photobiomodulation because we know that we're
infrared deprived and all. You know, we know how
to use fiber optics. We do it all the time. We
call the cable guy to come. You know, like, yeah,
(37:19):
it's not, you.
Meredith Oke (37:20):
Know, it was just like, my brain is exploding
here. Okay, so we're just, instead of the
information that's bringing in our HBO or
whatever, we're switching to photons, which is in
which our information. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So if I
(37:43):
put one of these monitors in my house, how does
it work? Do I put something outside that connects
to it?
Lilliana Lettieri (37:49):
Yeah. So there'll be a solar collector that would
have to be placed somewhere, obviously, where it
can collect sunlight and have access to sun at
different parts of the day. And then a fiber
optic cable would run similar to how you would
conduit to run fiber optics when you have the guy
(38:09):
come out and fix up your, you know, your home.
Home network and. And then wherever you want your
monitor to be, that fiber optic will then connect
to this monitor through, you know, a regular
looking cable. You plug it in just like any other
monitor. And then throughout the daytime, you're
just using sunlight. And then as the sun sets
(38:32):
and, you know, if you, if you need and want to,
as many people do need to use their monitor
during the nighttime, we're still using LEDs, but
just filling in that spectrum so it's more of a
sunlight, you know, broader spectrum of light. So
that you're still getting some of those healing
wavelengths, but, you know, during the day,
you're saving energy, you're getting all the
(38:54):
healing stuff. You know, the win, win.
Meredith Oke (38:57):
And then the. The lighting that you've put in
there at night, you've got actually taken into
account the biological impact of it.
Lilliana Lettieri (39:04):
Right, right.
Meredith Oke (39:07):
Okay. That's really crazy. So what if you wanted
to have, like, a lot of monitors, would you. Do
you just set up like a cable?
Lilliana Lettieri (39:15):
Yeah, so. So there are many sizes of solar
collectors that can, you know, concentrate enough
light to run to, you know, you could go from one
fiber optic cable up to probably 20. So depending
on. If you're an enterprise that wants to just
have one massive solar collector and hook it up
(39:38):
to a bunch of monitors and maybe some light
sources too, that can be task lights. That's
possible, too. You can use it for task lighting,
you can use it for ambient lighting. I mean,
you've talked to some pretty amazing lighting
designers now who they all are aware of this need
for different types of lighting. And our monitor
(40:00):
is arguably another type that we just. We use to
work. We need to work with. And it's not. It's
not a light bulb, but it's a light source going
into our eyes and helping us work and helping us
do our lives. So.
Meredith Oke (40:16):
Yeah, and right now, I mean, we, very few of us
have a life where we don't need to be on the
computer sometimes, or want to be. I mean, I love
doing this. Here we are. But everything involved
with the computer, I'm continuously mitigating
its effects on my biology. So, like, right now, I
don't have blue blockers on, but I have the iris
(40:38):
filtering, you know, on one of the settings
that's filtering out some of the harsher blue
light. So, Peter, what you've created is a
monitor that's. We don't need to hack it because
it's actually. The light coming out is actually
good for that.
Peter Veto (40:52):
Exactly. The mitigation is the right word.
Meredith Oke (40:54):
It's the we don't. The blue blockers and the
filters and all that.
Peter Veto (40:58):
Yeah, we have so many products to mitigate. And
that just shows that there is a problem. Right.
That none of them truly work, because that's why
we have to keep using them. And still, it only
solves the problem to some people, partially
because digital eye strain itself can come from
so many causal pathways. So some people have
(41:22):
issues with the spectrum, some people have issues
with the flicker, and it's very hard to figure
out which one hurts you. And then there are all
the invisible physiological aspects there. And
then there are many visual aspects as well which
go beyond just mere color vision. And so all of
these together, you cannot mitigate for
everything. That's great because now we have a
(41:46):
huge choice of various surrogate products which
we try to mitigate and people try to choose
whichever suits them. But nobody can really
tackle the root cause because that's not fixed
until you actually change the light source. So if
you filter out blue light from anyway very choppy
(42:06):
and limited LED spectrum, then all that you have
left is an even narrower part of even just the
visible spectrum. Right. And that's why all the
colors turn orange, which is just a color issue.
With a better, broader spectrum light source,
even without any blue light, you could have much
better colors, which we do as well. For the night
(42:27):
mode, happy to go more into details, but just to
finish the previous thought, that cannot add back
to the spectrum which what is missing. And then
to add to the spectrum, let's say some infrared
light, many people use extra desktop lamps next
to the monitor. But again, that doesn't really
(42:49):
account for what the issues with the monitor,
with the slicker, with the other spectral
problems. And it doesn't even necessarily reach
those parts of the retina where it need to reach
because you are still looking at the monitor. So
the full VR is always doused in the light that
comes from the display and not from anywhere
else. And this is by the way, also an issue when,
(43:10):
when you have a properly ambient daylit room, the
vast majority of the receptor cells in the retina
will be still doused in the light from the
display and not from the room. Because the
display is designed in such a way that it doesn't
reflect ambient light. That's why you don't have
glare and reflection. So that's important for the
(43:33):
display. But since you are looking at around the
center of the display and it's kind of large, the
vast majority of the retina receives that light
and not the daylight which might be in your room
if you are lucky otherwise.
Meredith Oke (43:49):
Right. So even if you have the window open or you
have a light box nearby supplementing the
spectrum, if your eyes are focused on the screen,
you're still mostly ingesting that.
Peter Veto (44:04):
Yes.
Meredith Oke (44:05):
And so it's also interesting what you were
saying. There's multiple factors like flicker,
which are, you know, these filters aren't
accounting for. And I think that's interesting
because I have personally noticed we get these
headaches on and off. And I do all the things
right, like I do all the things And I'm like,
where. What are these headaches? So I went to see
(44:28):
my chiropractor and I told her, like, I showed
her where. Where it was like on each side at the
base of my skull. And she's like, those are the
muscles connected to eye stream. And are you
spending a lot of time on your computer? And I'm
like, yes, well, some days, yes, some days, no.
But I do all the things. But what I'm hearing you
(44:49):
say is that there are so many layers to it. Like
there could. It could be the flicker. It could be
that maybe I need to wear my reading glasses and
I'm not.
Peter Veto (44:59):
Yes.
Meredith Oke (44:59):
What are your thoughts as an eye strain expert?
Peter Veto (45:01):
Well, certainly not an eye strain expert. Thank
you.
Meredith Oke (45:04):
Yeah.
Peter Veto (45:05):
And of course, I didn't want to say that it's not
better if you can have the window open or can
have some near infrared source nearby. And very
interesting tie to Scott Zimmerman's work, which
you have certainly presented here many times.
That also this Clara collects and channels near
infrared to the back of the eye. So obviously
(45:27):
some near inference will reach also the fovea.
But it's still different than if that is the
light source that you are looking at. Right.
Because. And especially the larger the monitor,
the more it will block out basically the rest of
your visual field in this spectral sense. Now,
near infrared is also not focused so precisely on
(45:50):
the retina, so there is definitely some scatter
and some mixing there. But again, this is
mitigation. Instead of having the right light in
the most impactful lighting application that we
have, because this plays out the only lighting
application where the intended use is to look
directly into the light source. And we do that
for several hours every day. So it is really a
(46:12):
concentrated and impactful application. And
that's why I don't think we should look so much
at even energy efficiency. Though obviously using
daylight also saves energy, but that should be
secondary because it's a little amount of light
but going to the most impactful places.
Meredith Oke (46:30):
Right. So, yes, for sure it's better to have the
window open in the supplemental, but when you
know. And that's a really good point. It's like
screens were designed for us to stare directly
into them, unlike light bulbs. And yet they were.
They did not take the physiological effects of
that into account at all. Like, not at all.
Peter Veto (46:53):
Not even as much as regular light bulbs. So even
regarding color rendering displays would never be
acceptable as a light source for general
lighting, because they have this narrow RGB
spectrum optimized for the color spaces that we
use in the online world, which is great. And the
eyes are very easy to fool in that regard. So we
(47:14):
can create a huge number of colors that way. And
perceptual, it works very well. And actually,
based on all the metrics that lighting uses this
way, a modern display with high resolution should
not be any different from reading a book. But
then why do we have all the digital eye strain?
Right. So that's the real issue that in the
lighting world, nobody really wants to look at
(47:36):
probably nowadays a little bit more. The trend is
definitely changing, but traditionally the
assumption was that all of this doesn't matter.
But then it, it, you know, it flies in the face
of the fact that so many people are struggling
with this place and not with reading the book.
The only difference is the light.
Lilliana Lettieri (47:57):
Right.
Meredith Oke (48:00):
Liliana, what thoughts?
Lilliana Lettieri (48:02):
No, I don't think I have anything to add. I mean,
I, I'm. I think Peter said it beautifully.
Meredith Oke (48:08):
Okay, so is there a version of this where we
could get it, where we could have this work on a
television?
Peter Veto (48:16):
Absolutely. It's the same technology. Yes. TVs,
digital whiteboards, even VR headsets could work
the same way.
Meredith Oke (48:23):
I mean, this is really crazy because I think a
foundational premise that people who listen to
this podcast anyway have is that our screens are
just. They're just bad for us. And all we can do
is minimize our use and mitigate. And mitigate
what's coming out of them and do our best to work
around it. This is like a bit of a shift into the
(48:46):
idea that there's a way to do it. I'm not like,
advocating we should have more screen time in our
lives, but we all are going to have some at this
point. So this is really a shift to think about.
Oh, it could actually be not bad for us.
Lilliana Lettieri (49:04):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (49:05):
Is that where you got to, Liliana?
Lilliana Lettieri (49:06):
Absolutely. And even now, you know, just thinking
of so many, you know, elder care facilities,
medical facilities, you know, children in schools
that don't have windows. I mean, there's so many
ways that, you know, people that don't have
access to. To sunlight to the extent that they
(49:29):
need it, and they either need to be in front of a
screen for whatever amount of time, or the screen
could just, you know, be a tool to bring them the
sunlight that they need to a place that, you
know, that that's removed from the natural
environment. I mean, there are, you know, you can
go, you know, bunkers, you could go, you know,
(49:51):
but, like, it doesn't need to be that extreme. It
could just be an office space. Space Or a medical
facility where somebody, you know, they're.
They're not mobile enough to go outside and get
the morning sun, but they can sit up in their
hospital bed and, you know, watch TV or whatever
and get that beautiful sunlight into their, into
their, into their eyes, their brains, their
(50:11):
skins, their cells.
Meredith Oke (50:14):
This is amazing. Okay, so, so where are things
at? You know, like, can, can we order these right
now? Can I go back? Like, can we go byline?
Lilliana Lettieri (50:25):
Not yet, but we're working really hard to get
there. So we have some really amazing prototypes
and we are currently talking to some promising
manufacturing partners and currently fundraising,
you know, to get that pilot build. I think we're
(50:46):
gonna, we're gonna, you know, need a minimum
order of at least a few hundred, if not a
thousand. That's our goal in 2026, is to be able
to build at least a few hundred and get them out
to people. You know, hopefully with any luck,
we'll be able to do pre sales to let people know,
(51:06):
look, this is when they're going to be available.
You know, you can get yours now and we'll deliver
it in six months or whatever that turns out to
be. So. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:16):
Okay, so amazing. So how can we help? Can people
get on your wait list?
Lilliana Lettieri (51:21):
Absolutely, yeah. The, the most impactful way
that any listener can help is honestly just to
sign up for our newsletter. Follow us on social
media, on Instagram, on YouTube, LinkedIn, if
that's your, if that's your social media of
choice and it's really spreading the word and
(51:42):
getting people excited and talking about it is
the biggest help. You know, like I said, we're
talking to investors and, you know, raising
money, raising capital right now to be able to do
that initial production run. But the best way for
us to show investors that there's excitement and
there's traction and that people want this is to
(52:04):
have engagement and followership and, you know,
people signing up and visiting the page and
watching the demo video and.
Meredith Oke (52:13):
Okay, well, we are all in. Okay, we have a
mission. We have a mission, friends.
Lilliana Lettieri (52:18):
Let's get.
Meredith Oke (52:19):
We would, we would all really love to have these,
to have this become an option in the world, if
not at some point the default option. So where.
What is the website to sign up? Is it pixen?
Lilliana Lettieri (52:34):
Yeah. Www.pixun.com co.
Meredith Oke (52:40):
Okay, so that's pixen P I X U N co and we'll put
links in the show notes and we'll do shout outs
and I mean, obviously people in this community
are going to be really excited about this. For
those of you who are members of QBC Pro, Peter
and Liliana did a very deep dive into the
science. I know some of you really, really like
(53:02):
that. Keep it a little more high level on the
podcast so we don't scare away the new people. We
like you new people. Welcome. Come on in the
water's farm in the circadian world. But yes, I
want to make sure, because I know Peter, you
have, like, have some very, a lot of deep science
behind this. So if that is of interest to you,
make sure you're in the, in the QVC Pro
(53:23):
membership. That video is in there. Okay. Well,
I, like, I'm so grateful that you two are doing
this. Thank you, like, truly. You know, I've just
been noticing lately, like, there, there, we all
play a different role. Some of us are
communicators, some of us are scientists. And I
think the entrepreneurs and the people who start
(53:45):
companies are a huge, huge piece of it because to
be a successful company, you have to be. You have
to share the message and communicate it out why
you're doing what you're doing. So you're
spreading the, spreading the knowledge. So thank
you both. Any, any last thoughts you'd like to
leave us with? Like, I just want to say. So I did
(54:08):
really, I, I didn't really wrap my head around
what you guys were doing until I went to the, to
your website and you have a picture of the
monitor and a picture of the, of the cable and an
arrow that says sunlight in here to the cable.
That is very clear. And that's when the penny
(54:28):
dropped for me. I'm like, how? What?
Lilliana Lettieri (54:31):
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm glad. We had some
amazing interns who really helped us up our game
on the website and started us going on social
media. Like, that's, you know, that's not my
forte, but we're trying hard. So, yeah, I mean,
the education piece is huge. Our mission, you
(54:54):
know, alongside and in parallel to building a
product that we believe in, that we, you know,
that we have a mission and a passion behind is
really education. I mean, we really have to be
the storytellers and, you know, be the educators
to raise awareness about the impact that these
(55:16):
devices that we all have to interact with are
having on us. So, yeah, I mean, if for no other
reason than to just learn a little something here
and there. Join us on the ride. We'll try to keep
putting blogs out and educational content. I
(55:39):
mean, that's part of it too. We just want to give
people tools to help them heal and help them be
able to survive in the digital world more in a.
In a healthier way.
Meredith Oke (55:51):
Yes. And everybody, like, this is. This is it.
Everyone's like, oh, what's going to happen in
the future? And we have a tech dystopia, or we
have a chronic illness epidemic, or this or that.
It's like, these are the moments. Like right now,
going to sign up for your newsletter to support a
company that could potentially, like, transform
(56:12):
the paradigm of screens in our lives. Like, we
all have agency here. We can all participate.
This is so fun and cool.
Peter Veto (56:21):
Yes. And thank you so, so much, Meredith, for all
your support. And you speak about these issues so
eloquently, which we are just trying to learn to
do, getting out of the academic silos. And so
it's a very different convolocation style. And
also here in this little conversation, you
summarized what we were saying, especially what I
(56:41):
was saying, so much better than we do. So there's
a lot to learn for us. But till then, thank you
so much for what the great work.
Lilliana Lettieri (56:51):
Oh, thanks, Peter.
Meredith Oke (56:52):
Thank you both. Thank you both for being here.
And truly, yes, let's stay in touch. And anything
we can do to support the evolution of this
company, we're here. We're here for it.
Lilliana Lettieri (57:06):
Thank you so much, Meredith. I'm really glad
we'll have you back soon. All right, sounds great.
Peter Veto (57:11):
Thank you.
Lilliana Lettieri (57:12):
Take care.
Meredith Oke (57:14):
This has been the Quantum Biology Collective
podcast. To find a practitioner who practices
from this point of view, visit our
directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are
a practitioner, definitely take a look at the
Applied Quantum Biology certification, a six week
(57:34):
study of the science of the new human health
professional paradigm and its practical
application with your patients and clients. We
also love to feature graduates of the program on
this very podcast. Until next time, the QVC.
Our microhabitat is completely different from the
microhabitat that we had 150, even 200 years ago.
It's completely different. And within that
microhabitat that has a very different light
structure, let's say, you know, if you're to see
what's around there, the wavelengths and the
(00:21):
intensity of the light and all of that, it's
completely different. And then within that, we're
also additionally bombarding our eyes with a
very, very specific cue that even though we don't
see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily
in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling
(00:41):
it, our bodies are feeling it.
Meredith Oke (00:43):
Welcome to the QVC podcast, where we explore new
paradigms in health and science that have a
meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm
your host, Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.
I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue
and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.
(01:03):
I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away
in an ivory tower. And that wisdom can be found
in many places and understood by all of us. To
keep in touch with this podcast, the QVC free
community, our episode guide, and all the show
notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's
(01:26):
get together to create the future we all want to
live in. Okay, you guys, the guests on my show
today are making something that is so super cool.
I don't, I don't even know what to say. It's like
the craziest thing. And I have to say, Peter Vito
(01:47):
and Liliana Lettiari, who are my guests today,
have been working on this for a couple of years.
They've been on my radar and, and you know, they,
we even did a deep dive with them in QVC Pro in
deep into their science. And I'm kind of
embarrassed to say. I was sort of paid attention
(02:10):
to what they were talking about, but not really
until I decided to have them on my podcast and I
started really looking at what they were making.
I was like, oh, okay, yeah, it's a, it's a new
kind of screen. All right, that sounds good.
Like, yeah, for sure, for sure. And then I
started to research what exactly these guys are
(02:30):
doing, and it's crazy.
Lilliana Lettieri (02:34):
I'm like, what?
Meredith Oke (02:35):
How are we not all so super excited about this?
Okay, so when I explain it to you, you're going
to get really excited. It's not available yet.
They're still, you know, building out the
prototype and working on getting their company
going, but what they've done is they've created a
monitor. So a screen that can be used for,
(02:57):
attached to any computer. You could use it as a
television. You know, it's a monitor that is lit.
The light coming out of it is sunlight. Yes,
Correct. The monitor emits sunlight. The sunlight
is collected outside, travels through a fiber
(03:21):
optic cable and, and comes out of the screen.
Like, what? So now it's not. We're not trying to
mitigate. We don't have to do all these hacks to
mitigate the toxic light coming out of the
screen. The light coming out of the screen could
actually just be sunlight. Yes, yes, yes. We
(03:44):
still want to go outside and do all of those
things, but what if the time that we did have to
spend on a screen was good for us? Like, it's
crazy and this thing actually works. It's real.
So I, I'm going to let them get into it and
explain the story of how this all happened.
(04:04):
Liliana and Peter both have PhDs. Peter has a PhD
in psychophysics. And Liana, Liliana is more
cross disciplinary. She studied a lot of
different kinds of sciences. So this is one of
those situations where it's like, as with
anything that is working in the world today, it's
(04:26):
interdisciplinary, it's abolishing silos. It's
people with different backgrounds coming together
and going, what if we did this? What if we tried
this? Peter's really focused on the science and
Liliana is building out the business and I
couldn't be more excited to support them in that
endeavor. So enjoy this conversation. In the
(04:47):
meantime, since a sunlit screen is currently not
in any of our living rooms or on our desks or on
our tables or on our screened in porches where I
currently am, we still should be mindful of how
we use them and, you know, download all the
(05:07):
filters for during the day. That's what I do. If
people are like, why are you wearing blue clips?
You don't wear blue blockers during the day. I
use, I use the iris filter and I during the day
and then in the evening if I need to be on a
screen or I'd like to watch a movie or a TV show
with my family, I put on the blue blockers, which
I get from boncharge.com our partner on this
(05:29):
podcast. So if you are using a screen and you
don't have blue blockers, you should really go
get some. The code is QBC at checkout for a
discount. And now back to the future of screens
with Liliana and Peter. Peter Vito. Liliana
Latieri. Welcome to the QVC podcast. I'm really
(05:50):
excited to have you both here. For people who
don't know, I mean, I just will have said it in
the intro, but you're working on some really
exciting technology that literally brings
sunlight into our computer monitors. So we're
going to get into it. But I first want to ask how
you both arrived at this project. It's in some
(06:14):
ways seems so intuitively correct and in other
ways is just completely cutting edge and mind
blowing that you're doing this. Love to hear how
you ended up making a sunlight fueled screen.
Lilliana Lettieri (06:29):
Yeah. So I'll give you a little bit of my
background because I think in context, maybe it
makes a little bit more sense about how I met up
with Peter and why it all made sense to me
immediately. So I was trained in biology. I
worked looking at organisms and how they signal
(06:55):
and use color and light to interact and, and to
survive in their specific environments. So what I
learned was all about vision and how colors and
wavelengths move through the environment in very
specific ways and in specific channels. And you
(07:17):
know, what we tend to think of as color is based
on our categorical way of using light to
interpret our environment with our specific
cones. Right. But bees or mantis shrimp or birds,
they all have very different ways of interpreting
their environment. So that's sort of always been
(07:37):
an understanding. And then I eventually moved
into the business world, into signaling in a very
different way in home electronics, consumer
electronics, and learned about Bluetooth and WI
(07:57):
fi and how data is brought in to your home and
signaled throughout the environment. And so
that's sort of where I came to this understanding
when I reached sort of my, my health awakening,
if you will. That, that then brought me to, to
(08:17):
meet Peter.
Meredith Oke (08:20):
That is so fascinating. And of course, what
strikes me first is, and I find this with
everybody who has deep insights in this field is
that there's almost always overlapping fields
that aren't necessarily ever supposed to, under
normal circumstances, talk to each other. So in
(08:41):
your case, you were looking at biology and
specifically how insects see. And then you moved
into a job that required you to understand how we
receive technology into our lives in our homes.
Lilliana Lettieri (08:55):
Right. So it was actually fishes, believe it or
not. So I was actually setting up things to
measure light and communication with color
underwater in big contrast and building rigs, you
know, that would hold a camera and taking
(09:16):
measurements with little underwater contraptions
and trying to figure out how organisms
communicate to each other in the ocean. So then
moving into technology, you know, it's a whole
new world. But to me, it all Interconnects very
much. I mean, I was trained as an
(09:37):
interdisciplinary scientist. I took classes with
chemists and engineers, and, you know, the whole
idea was to sort of like, bring these fields
together, learn how to talk to one another in a
way that's not so, you know, filled with jargon,
that you're like, I don't know what you're
talking about. You know, that I can see that
you're very smart, but I don't understand what
(09:58):
you're, what you're speaking about. So we learned
to talk to one another, you know, in a common
language. And I think that that has served me,
you know, down the road to be able to talk to
people from different fields and understand that
we're, We're. We're. We're tackling the same
problem, but from very different, you know,
(10:20):
expertise. So.
Meredith Oke (10:23):
Oh, I love that. And, you know, I really think
that, yeah, this siloing of science and research
and even industries, you know, you have like, the
FTC regulating ems, and they don't, like, what
did the FTC know about biology? Like, they went
to decide, make business decisions. Right. Like,
(10:43):
so this, this siloing has been hugely
detrimental, I think, to civilization. So I love
that you're weaving things together and doing it
in a way where you can talk about it publicly.
My, My soapbox right now is that science needs
storytellers. I, you know, everyone I talk to,
it's like, I know we're just at the beginning of.
The beginning of understanding things, but
(11:04):
there's so much science there. Like, there's so
much. And I think a lot of people, myself
included, have kind of labored under the belief
that once there's enough science to prove
something, we'll just all magically know, right?
Lilliana Lettieri (11:18):
We'll just all get it, shift to the new right
thing.
Meredith Oke (11:21):
And I'm like, oh, no, that's not how it works.
Okay, so, Peter, tell us your way into this world.
Peter Veto (11:33):
Yeah, to connect to all of this, beyond the
interdisciplinary background, of course, to
pixel, and also to what we do, which is similar
in that sense to that of Liliana's. The other
common thread, I believe, is the personal
involvement or having had the experience of
health issues which relate to light and how
(11:56):
increasing exposure to daylight can help with
that and otherwise. I was also a researcher
first, so before 2020, I was a researcher in
psychophysics, studying human vision and
perception, starting with electrophyll.
Meredith Oke (12:10):
Okay, sorry, hang on. What is psychophysics? Tell
us more about that. That sounds cool.
Peter Veto (12:16):
Psychophysics is basically measuring something in
physical reality and using that as a stimulus and
then measuring on the other end of the
interaction something in the psychological realms
to how animals or humans in my case react to
that. Basically my main topics were around
vision, so how we see things. And firstly
(12:38):
starting with electrophysiology, so EEG and tms,
which is measuring electric waves from outside of
the skull, so electric activity of the brain. And
then TMS is using electromagnetic policies to
induce some activity in the brain. But then I
moved on to psychophysics, which is kind of
(12:59):
leaving this middle ground of the messy
neuroscience part out and measures on what is
more tangible. And so that came in my career, I
think more just accidentally. But looking back,
I'm very, very grateful for that because it
brought me much closer to whatever is pragmatic.
(13:22):
So measuring really reality and not just trying
to figure out through some modeling what's going
on inside. The biggest issue there being with all
the neuroscience stuff, is that no one really
understands what the brain does. So that's how I
got to vision and action as well. So I was using
their eye tracking, pupilometry, motion capture,
(13:43):
stuff like that.
Meredith Oke (13:45):
Okay, so I heard some interesting things in your
answer as well, which is that a lot of brain
science is done based on modeling and you prefer
to work on actual observations, which I think is
also really in the wheelhouse that we're all
operating in, which is how does this science help
(14:05):
people right now? What choices can I make in my
life, in my day to day life that's going to help
me right now versus just funneling it into
research and research and research that never
quite bridges into real life. And it's
interesting, I was YouTube served me up a video
just yesterday of some neuroscience guy who was
(14:28):
like, well, psychology and philosophy are fine,
but it's really neuroscience because now we know
that this part of the brain does this, and this
part of the brain, I'm like, you don't know
anything. Shut up. You and your 28 million, 28
million views on YouTube. But I just, it, it's
interesting to me the certainty with which people
(14:49):
can convey things that they've studied that
aren't, you know, really necessarily the whole
story at all.
Peter Veto (14:57):
Absolutely. And the other thing that connects to
here with what you said, is that we know plenty
enough to do better in lighting in this place. So
looking for impact, I was thinking I could do
some more research and write papers which will be
read by a few more academics and that's it. But
actually we know plenty enough to know how it can
(15:18):
be done better. And of course, daylight being the
optimal Light source, it just really seemed
trivial, but also, again, from personal
experience and other backgrounds to how Pixar
came to be. But this is one of it that it's
always cool to know more and to dig into
mechanisms, but if we can see which light source
(15:41):
works better for people, that's a very simple
thing. I think we know plenty enough about that
to know how we could do better.
Meredith Oke (15:48):
Yeah, exactly. It's like, okay, oh, this is
clear. Like, let's take some. Make some practical
changes to the world. So tell me, tell me about
your personal health story that led you to this
and your epiphany about daylight.
Peter Veto (16:02):
In my case, this started really in 2018. I was a
postdoc at Cambridge and working mainly in a dark
length. So for these vision experiments and
humans, we of course need a controlled light
environment. So it's all dark with electric
lighting and mainly display. So that's where I
spent most of my day. And when I was not there,
my office setup was really not very ergonomic. So
(16:25):
the only chance I had to play somewhere desktop
monitor was right in a west facing window. So it
was always sunny when I got to that point in my
day to use it. And I had to block the window and
block the sun completely. And so that's when I
was starting to think that I could just get rid
of the backside of the monitor and use the
sunlight for that. And meanwhile, because of more
(16:47):
work and other issues, I also had increasing
symptoms of light sensitivity. And I was looking
for answers for that, which my professional
really couldn't give. Again, it's not
interdisciplinary enough so that lighting
research would be connected enough to basic
vision science, which, the latter, of course, was
my field at that, at that time, let alone to
(17:10):
anything. And that has to do with light
physiology. And so that's when I started to learn
more about this and realize that this is about so
much more than.
Meredith Oke (17:21):
So the requirements of your job where you were in
darkness a lot during the day. Is that right? And
then in front of your computer in the. So you had
like dark mornings, computer lit afternoons. Is
that sort of. That was the setup of your life and
then started to take a toll?
Peter Veto (17:40):
Yes, definitely. Yes. And when I could have had a
sun office space, I had to block the sun to even
be able to see the monitor.
Meredith Oke (17:48):
Okay.
Peter Veto (17:48):
So I was thinking if I could channel the sun into
the display, that would help with both. Both
problems.
Meredith Oke (17:58):
Wow, I love how your brain works. So what were
some of the symptoms that you noticed when you
were living a life where it was you had Darkness
for the first half of the day and then computer
monitor light in the second half of the day. How
were you feeling physically, mentally, like what
was going on?
Peter Veto (18:16):
I think I have always had some sensitivities and
especially for light, light sources which are
weird. And that really started with car
headlights a little earlier when LED headlights
started to become more popular and I realized
that I no longer enjoy driving at night and it
took some while to even figure out why. And
(18:36):
obviously that means that my symptoms were not so
severe. But then this got much worse when I spend
more time indoors, more time in front of computer
screens and that then connects to headaches, all
sorts of other issues and just eye strain in
general with various symptoms. Part of that can
also be temporary myopia which I experienced
(18:59):
periodically, which is interesting because in my
adolescent years I was myopic and then I kind of
successfully trained myself out of it because I
was lucky enough to be sent to a more forward
thinking ophthalmologist who didn't just
prescribe sunglasses, but also gave exercises and
good advice, which in my case were wow. But I
(19:22):
guess I'm still myopic in the sense that the
symptoms can come back. And so this place can
induce temporary myopia in many people. And it's
still a somewhat open question how much that
translates to longer term myopia. It seems to do
translate to some degree and in my case that that
is also part of the symptoms that I can
(19:43):
experience. So I guess there are these flashbacks
of blurry vision even though normally I don't
have it and I don't need glasses any longer even
for driving.
Meredith Oke (19:54):
Wow. So you were having headaches and eye strain
and your. My myopia was getting worse.
Peter Veto (20:02):
Yes, that's right. And I, I never have had that.
Meredith Oke (20:04):
And then when you changed and had a. Yeah, when
you changed your lighting environment to get more
daylight during the day, what happened?
Peter Veto (20:11):
Yeah, so this got pretty much fixed through just
more, more awareness of how to organize my day
and how to be exposed to daylight increasingly
starting from the morning because I'm. I was
especially then more sunsens as well. So it
really needs to start gently and with daylight.
And that just helps and reduces all the
(20:32):
sensitivity symptoms also to bright sources
including headlights. And it doesn't go away. And
who knows why that is the case really. I don't
think we understand why some people are sensitive
to LEDs and others not. There are many aspects to
this, but at least you can reduce the symptoms by
just being more aligned to nature.
Meredith Oke (20:55):
Yes, and that's true A lot of the time when I
talk to people about this, they're like, oh, I
can't go outside. Like, it's too bright. My eyes
are, you know, and that's actually a symptom of
not being outside enough. So what you're saying
is you went out, you started early in the morning
before it's like super, super bright and, and
gradually adjusted. Seems like a good way to do
it.
Peter Veto (21:14):
Exactly. This is huge. And so many people say
that, oh, the sun is stronger now than it used to
be. And as children they were, whatever, playing
outdoor all day long and it didn't burn them. And
it doesn't even occur to them that it's not so
much probably the sun that changed, but they
have, right?
Meredith Oke (21:33):
Yeah. Their environment, their indoor environment
has changed, which has made us more sensitive to
our outdoor environment. Liliana, what's your
story of coming to understand how important light
is and natural light is in terms of overall
health?
Lilliana Lettieri (21:49):
Yeah, so I would say after about a decade in
academic research, which was many times in labs
and, you know, very controlled lighting
environments and indoors largely, and then
transitioning into the business world where I was
often on calls with international teams before
(22:12):
sunrise and then after sunset and just, you know,
a lot of screen time, a lot of indoor office
spaces and a lot of exposure to different
communication varieties, I started to experience
sort of weird metabolic related symptoms, you
(22:34):
know, and, and I sort of first attributed it to,
oh, it seems like it's maybe early menopause,
early perimenopause and you know, hot flashes,
night sweats, headaches, insomnia, dopamine
dysregulation, just all kinds of weird things
that, you know, if, if I talk to people, they're
(22:55):
like, oh, you're just getting older, that's
normal. And, and I, and I, you know, I, I sort of
took that as the acceptance storyline at the
time. And then it started to really feel like
this isn't quite, I don't really feel like this
is the root, this isn't really what's happening.
So I started to really do some more research and
(23:19):
when I started to learn more about this, you
know, the circadian science and really started
to, you know, recognize and make the connection
between like, oh, my natural environment is very
unnatural and so maybe I need to really realign.
And so when I started to do that, these symptoms
started to go away on their own. And, and you
(23:42):
know, and then I was, then I, it was like the
light bulb really went off and I was like, okay,
I really need to learn a lot more about this and,
and I really started to piece together that,
well, two things that one of the things that I
had been attributing to just general, you know,
(24:03):
getting, getting older and perimenopause was
really mitochondrial energy loss. That, that was
really what was at the root of my symptoms. And
the more that I did things to give my cells what
they needed to be able to recharge and repair
those symptoms just went away. And the other
(24:24):
thing that I really learned was that there was a
lot of screen time in my life and that it was, it
was a huge part of the stressor that would
trigger when I would, when I would struggle with
the symptoms. So. Yeah. Wow.
Meredith Oke (24:41):
And did, did it, did you connect back to when
you'd done your work with animals and how
everything about them was based on their
environment?
Lilliana Lettieri (24:49):
Totally.
Meredith Oke (24:50):
It's like for us, whatever, yeah, we're. I'll
just be on zoom nine hours a day. It's fine.
Lilliana Lettieri (24:55):
Yeah, exactly. It was like it all just came right
back and I was like, oh, our microhabitat is
completely different from the microhabitat that
we had 150, even 200 years ago. You know, it's
completely different. And within that
microhabitat that has a very different light
(25:17):
structure. Let's say, you know, if you're to see
what's around there, the wavelengths and the
intensity of the light and all of that, it's
completely different. And then within that, we're
also additionally bombarding our eyes with a
very, very specific cue that even though we don't
(25:39):
see it in our eyes because it's not necessarily
in the visible wavelength, our cells are feeling
it, our bodies are feeling it, they are getting
that signal through our eyes. You know,
subconsciously, invisibly, secretly, whatever you
want to call it, the body is aware of it. Even
(25:59):
though we as, you know, organisms with a fancy
eyeball that has some very fancy cones and rods
that can help us attune to our environment. I
think what we often forget is that there's so
much information flying around on so many
channels. And in order to survive, we as
(26:20):
organisms, every organism, we actually have to
filter out a lot of information. And that
information is filtered out to help us survive.
Right. There's only so much information we can
process. But when that happens, I think we as
humans with our big fancy brains, we start to
(26:41):
think, well, this is just all I need to pay
attention to is what I can see and what I can
perceive and everything else doesn't matter or,
or everything else that I don't need to pay
attention to becomes inconsequential when the
reality is our bodies are very attuned to
everything going on around us.
Meredith Oke (27:02):
Yes, yes. And when you. When you start to look at
it from the subatomic level, which we can't see
at all, but we know exists, it's like those
frequencies are like tractors driving through the
living room to ourselves.
Lilliana Lettieri (27:22):
Right, right, Absolutely.
Meredith Oke (27:25):
Okay, so how did you connect with Peter and
decide to, like, fully shift into. Into this as
your. As your main thing?
Lilliana Lettieri (27:38):
Yeah, so Peter and I met when I was starting to
look for just other people in the community who
were doing something that I felt like I could. I
could believe in. You know, like, I felt like I
had been in this consumer electronics world for
so, you know, almost a decade. I had really, you
(28:01):
know, shifted my awareness to be like, this stuff
is killing us. We need to do this tech better.
You know, and it. I mean, you know, literally, co
workers who had, you know, been very healthy,
gone to the gym, they did all the things, you
know, started to drop off because they had cancer
and they had to, you know, just leave. So, you
(28:25):
know, it. It was time for me to really look for
something that. That made more sense to me
professionally. And so I. When I met Peter, you
know, he had already developed this amazing
technology, and I immediately was like, I know
how to build these things because this is what I
do for my job. You know, I was project managing,
(28:49):
building electronics that go in people's homes,
working with the factories, working with the
engineering teams, you know, making sure it's got
all the features and all the parts that we need
to get it out there. And, you know, I. When I.
When we had our first conversation, I was like, I
think we can. I think we can do this. Like, I
think I can help. I can. I can bring something to
(29:11):
the table here. So. So, yeah, I was excited.
Meredith Oke (29:14):
Oh, that's so cool.
Lilliana Lettieri (29:16):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (29:16):
Oh, I love this. Okay. So you brought all of that
valuable experience and knowledge and
understanding of supply chain things and all
that, that stuff.
Lilliana Lettieri (29:29):
All that fun stuff, all that stuff that makes me.
Meredith Oke (29:34):
Good night. But yes, it's very important if you
want to make things. I totally, I value that. So
you brought that to the table and then Peter
brought the technology, which so. And I love this
story. So, Peter, it's like one of those aha
moments. You're sitting in your office, you've
started to understand how important natural light
(29:55):
is. You realize that you're blocking out the
sunlight coming through your western facing
window in order to see Your monitor. And you're
like, wait a minute, what if the sun was the
light source for the monitor? Like, so. Good.
Peter Veto (30:09):
Thank you. Good summary.
Meredith Oke (30:10):
What happened?
Peter Veto (30:12):
Much better than that.
Meredith Oke (30:15):
So you had this epiphany and then what'd you do?
Peter Veto (30:18):
Yeah, and then I. Well, I built it. I started to
experiment, and I started with how many others
have to remove the backside of an LCD to somehow
gather daylight directly and channel it into the
display? And first I wanted to use louvers. And
that was an idea with which I experimented with
(30:39):
and realized that in some cases it might work,
but it will never work for any broader use case.
And even in a single use case, it so much depends
on the angle of the sun, which keeps changing
throughout the day. And later, Ezai, a small
startup, did a product which did something
extremely similar, but instead of louvers, they
(31:00):
just had the backside of the display to open. And
then you can change that angle to hopefully
channel more light from whatever direction, maybe
from a window into the display. And it kind of
works, but not really. So they also for their
next round of products, immediately they moved on
to rscd, which is then what Hisense and Sun
(31:22):
Vision Display and Daylight Computer and all the
others are doing. But nobody has really managed
to get this daylight collection to work properly.
And then as a next stage, I thought, okay, we
have to concentrate sunlight. So I started with
larger Fresnel lenses to collect light from a
larger surface in the window and channel into the
(31:44):
display. And maybe to try to direct them to with
lens arrays, which can change the direction of
daylight. But of course, again, daylight is very
diffuse and it keeps changing its angle with the
sun. So then sooner I realized that this is the
same situation, just a little better. It might
work, but definitely not in all the cases where I
(32:06):
want it to work. And even then, you need to be in
the window or very close for this to work. And
then meanwhile, I moved back to Germany. I was
doing another postdoc at Ulm, and I got some help
from an optics professor at. And then it slowly
became clear that really the way to do this
(32:27):
properly is to collect daylight outside and use a
fiber optic cable to channel it indoors. And then
you can use it anywhere, and then you can use it
in the basement, in a windowless office,
anywhere. And it's going to be an intense light
source, because the issue with all the displays
is that you need much more light than what you
(32:48):
have just from a reflective surface of the same
size of your display, because it needs to pass
through so many layers to give you the colored
image. And because of that, any reflective
display, any other daylight technology, will
always look much dimmer than if you just place a
white piece of paper next to it. So generally
they are too dim. And that's also why the image
(33:10):
quality has to be low for it to work. But if you
can concentrate daylight, then you can achieve
all the visual qualities of regular desktop
monitors while using daylight, so. While also
offering all the health benefits and comfort
benefits of anything that is daylight. And so
that's when it really started. 2019, I guess, the
(33:35):
first prototyping. Of course, many iterations
came, but that's when the concept started to
solidify.
Meredith Oke (33:44):
Okay, so I heard you describing this on another
call and you were like, oh, yes, all this
technology, we just do this. And I'm thinking,
I'm like, wait a minute, did Peter just say that
he's got a cable channeling sunlight into my,
into the monitor? And so the light coming out of
(34:06):
the monitor is full spectrum sunlight. I know you
mentioned you blocked uv, but other than that,
like, is that what's happening?
Peter Veto (34:15):
Yes, it is. And of course it's not my invention.
So these tools have existed.
Meredith Oke (34:18):
This seems like amazing.
Peter Veto (34:20):
No, no, no.
Meredith Oke (34:21):
Sorry, you're okay. Yeah.
Peter Veto (34:22):
These tools have existed for 60 years or more.
The thing is that they have a very niche market
because they compete with Windows. So they are
adding a space. It is much cheaper and simpler if
you just use Windows or even light tunnels. But
for display, they cannot work, and that's why
they are very useful. So I guess I just connect
(34:42):
it to Fields and then what needed to be
engineered by us, and the proprietary part is the
backlighting architecture of Pixan. So how do you
deal with a very intense and small light source
and spread that light evenly on the back surface
of the lcd, while of course also having an
electric light source. You need that whenever
sunlight is not available. And to have a
(35:04):
standalone, fully usable display also for the
nighttime.
Meredith Oke (35:08):
Okay, this is just really crazy to me. So,
Liliana, how would you explain what's happening
here? And how did you first wrap your head around
it? Because I hear Peter saying, oh, there's been
versions of this technology where you put
sunlight through a cable. Really? There has been.
And like, could we people use that to light their
(35:29):
basements? But I'll hold that question. Just,
let's just stay focused on this on the other
monitor for now.
Lilliana Lettieri (35:35):
Yes. So when Peter first explained it, I also
kind of had to ask a few follow up questions. I
was like, wait a minute, so you're, you're
powering the monitor. And he's like, no, no, not
with solar panels, solar collectors. So it's, you
know, these lenses that are collecting and then
(35:55):
concentrating light and then using fiber optics,
which is, you know, in the communications world,
that's what we use to bring in data instead of
photons necessarily. But the, the fiber optics
are the same, right? I mean, you know, my mind
immediately went to, oh, yeah, you know, people
(36:16):
used to put satellite dishes on their homes, you
know, to collect information. And then, you know,
we use fiber optics to bring data into our homes
and then we connect it to our little. So it was
like all the pieces made, sentiment, made sense
to me. But when he said it, I was like, oh, yeah,
that's what we should be doing. We should be
(36:39):
using the sunlight to backlight the monitor,
because the monitor has these very, very narrow
wavelengths that are only indivisible. We're
missing all of that, you know, beautiful,
restorative, regenerative part of the spectrum.
The part that you go out, you know, early in the
(36:59):
morning to collect, to get everything going and
healing. And, you know, people are now using
photobiomodulation because we know that we're
infrared deprived and all. You know, we know how
to use fiber optics. We do it all the time. We
call the cable guy to come. You know, like, yeah,
(37:19):
it's not, you.
Meredith Oke (37:20):
Know, it was just like, my brain is exploding
here. Okay, so we're just, instead of the
information that's bringing in our HBO or
whatever, we're switching to photons, which is in
which our information. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So if I
(37:43):
put one of these monitors in my house, how does
it work? Do I put something outside that connects
to it?
Lilliana Lettieri (37:49):
Yeah. So there'll be a solar collector that would
have to be placed somewhere, obviously, where it
can collect sunlight and have access to sun at
different parts of the day. And then a fiber
optic cable would run similar to how you would
conduit to run fiber optics when you have the guy
(38:09):
come out and fix up your, you know, your home.
Home network and. And then wherever you want your
monitor to be, that fiber optic will then connect
to this monitor through, you know, a regular
looking cable. You plug it in just like any other
monitor. And then throughout the daytime, you're
just using sunlight. And then as the sun sets
(38:32):
and, you know, if you, if you need and want to,
as many people do need to use their monitor
during the nighttime, we're still using LEDs, but
just filling in that spectrum so it's more of a
sunlight, you know, broader spectrum of light. So
that you're still getting some of those healing
wavelengths, but, you know, during the day,
you're saving energy, you're getting all the
(38:54):
healing stuff. You know, the win, win.
Meredith Oke (38:57):
And then the. The lighting that you've put in
there at night, you've got actually taken into
account the biological impact of it.
Lilliana Lettieri (39:04):
Right, right.
Meredith Oke (39:07):
Okay. That's really crazy. So what if you wanted
to have, like, a lot of monitors, would you. Do
you just set up like a cable?
Lilliana Lettieri (39:15):
Yeah, so. So there are many sizes of solar
collectors that can, you know, concentrate enough
light to run to, you know, you could go from one
fiber optic cable up to probably 20. So depending
on. If you're an enterprise that wants to just
have one massive solar collector and hook it up
(39:38):
to a bunch of monitors and maybe some light
sources too, that can be task lights. That's
possible, too. You can use it for task lighting,
you can use it for ambient lighting. I mean,
you've talked to some pretty amazing lighting
designers now who they all are aware of this need
for different types of lighting. And our monitor
(40:00):
is arguably another type that we just. We use to
work. We need to work with. And it's not. It's
not a light bulb, but it's a light source going
into our eyes and helping us work and helping us
do our lives. So.
Meredith Oke (40:16):
Yeah, and right now, I mean, we, very few of us
have a life where we don't need to be on the
computer sometimes, or want to be. I mean, I love
doing this. Here we are. But everything involved
with the computer, I'm continuously mitigating
its effects on my biology. So, like, right now, I
don't have blue blockers on, but I have the iris
(40:38):
filtering, you know, on one of the settings
that's filtering out some of the harsher blue
light. So, Peter, what you've created is a
monitor that's. We don't need to hack it because
it's actually. The light coming out is actually
good for that.
Peter Veto (40:52):
Exactly. The mitigation is the right word.
Meredith Oke (40:54):
It's the we don't. The blue blockers and the
filters and all that.
Peter Veto (40:58):
Yeah, we have so many products to mitigate. And
that just shows that there is a problem. Right.
That none of them truly work, because that's why
we have to keep using them. And still, it only
solves the problem to some people, partially
because digital eye strain itself can come from
so many causal pathways. So some people have
(41:22):
issues with the spectrum, some people have issues
with the flicker, and it's very hard to figure
out which one hurts you. And then there are all
the invisible physiological aspects there. And
then there are many visual aspects as well which
go beyond just mere color vision. And so all of
these together, you cannot mitigate for
everything. That's great because now we have a
(41:46):
huge choice of various surrogate products which
we try to mitigate and people try to choose
whichever suits them. But nobody can really
tackle the root cause because that's not fixed
until you actually change the light source. So if
you filter out blue light from anyway very choppy
(42:06):
and limited LED spectrum, then all that you have
left is an even narrower part of even just the
visible spectrum. Right. And that's why all the
colors turn orange, which is just a color issue.
With a better, broader spectrum light source,
even without any blue light, you could have much
better colors, which we do as well. For the night
(42:27):
mode, happy to go more into details, but just to
finish the previous thought, that cannot add back
to the spectrum which what is missing. And then
to add to the spectrum, let's say some infrared
light, many people use extra desktop lamps next
to the monitor. But again, that doesn't really
(42:49):
account for what the issues with the monitor,
with the slicker, with the other spectral
problems. And it doesn't even necessarily reach
those parts of the retina where it need to reach
because you are still looking at the monitor. So
the full VR is always doused in the light that
comes from the display and not from anywhere
else. And this is by the way, also an issue when,
(43:10):
when you have a properly ambient daylit room, the
vast majority of the receptor cells in the retina
will be still doused in the light from the
display and not from the room. Because the
display is designed in such a way that it doesn't
reflect ambient light. That's why you don't have
glare and reflection. So that's important for the
(43:33):
display. But since you are looking at around the
center of the display and it's kind of large, the
vast majority of the retina receives that light
and not the daylight which might be in your room
if you are lucky otherwise.
Meredith Oke (43:49):
Right. So even if you have the window open or you
have a light box nearby supplementing the
spectrum, if your eyes are focused on the screen,
you're still mostly ingesting that.
Peter Veto (44:04):
Yes.
Meredith Oke (44:05):
And so it's also interesting what you were
saying. There's multiple factors like flicker,
which are, you know, these filters aren't
accounting for. And I think that's interesting
because I have personally noticed we get these
headaches on and off. And I do all the things
right, like I do all the things And I'm like,
where. What are these headaches? So I went to see
(44:28):
my chiropractor and I told her, like, I showed
her where. Where it was like on each side at the
base of my skull. And she's like, those are the
muscles connected to eye stream. And are you
spending a lot of time on your computer? And I'm
like, yes, well, some days, yes, some days, no.
But I do all the things. But what I'm hearing you
(44:49):
say is that there are so many layers to it. Like
there could. It could be the flicker. It could be
that maybe I need to wear my reading glasses and
I'm not.
Peter Veto (44:59):
Yes.
Meredith Oke (44:59):
What are your thoughts as an eye strain expert?
Peter Veto (45:01):
Well, certainly not an eye strain expert. Thank
you.
Meredith Oke (45:04):
Yeah.
Peter Veto (45:05):
And of course, I didn't want to say that it's not
better if you can have the window open or can
have some near infrared source nearby. And very
interesting tie to Scott Zimmerman's work, which
you have certainly presented here many times.
That also this Clara collects and channels near
infrared to the back of the eye. So obviously
(45:27):
some near inference will reach also the fovea.
But it's still different than if that is the
light source that you are looking at. Right.
Because. And especially the larger the monitor,
the more it will block out basically the rest of
your visual field in this spectral sense. Now,
near infrared is also not focused so precisely on
(45:50):
the retina, so there is definitely some scatter
and some mixing there. But again, this is
mitigation. Instead of having the right light in
the most impactful lighting application that we
have, because this plays out the only lighting
application where the intended use is to look
directly into the light source. And we do that
for several hours every day. So it is really a
(46:12):
concentrated and impactful application. And
that's why I don't think we should look so much
at even energy efficiency. Though obviously using
daylight also saves energy, but that should be
secondary because it's a little amount of light
but going to the most impactful places.
Meredith Oke (46:30):
Right. So, yes, for sure it's better to have the
window open in the supplemental, but when you
know. And that's a really good point. It's like
screens were designed for us to stare directly
into them, unlike light bulbs. And yet they were.
They did not take the physiological effects of
that into account at all. Like, not at all.
Peter Veto (46:53):
Not even as much as regular light bulbs. So even
regarding color rendering displays would never be
acceptable as a light source for general
lighting, because they have this narrow RGB
spectrum optimized for the color spaces that we
use in the online world, which is great. And the
eyes are very easy to fool in that regard. So we
(47:14):
can create a huge number of colors that way. And
perceptual, it works very well. And actually,
based on all the metrics that lighting uses this
way, a modern display with high resolution should
not be any different from reading a book. But
then why do we have all the digital eye strain?
Right. So that's the real issue that in the
lighting world, nobody really wants to look at
(47:36):
probably nowadays a little bit more. The trend is
definitely changing, but traditionally the
assumption was that all of this doesn't matter.
But then it, it, you know, it flies in the face
of the fact that so many people are struggling
with this place and not with reading the book.
The only difference is the light.
Lilliana Lettieri (47:57):
Right.
Meredith Oke (48:00):
Liliana, what thoughts?
Lilliana Lettieri (48:02):
No, I don't think I have anything to add. I mean,
I, I'm. I think Peter said it beautifully.
Meredith Oke (48:08):
Okay, so is there a version of this where we
could get it, where we could have this work on a
television?
Peter Veto (48:16):
Absolutely. It's the same technology. Yes. TVs,
digital whiteboards, even VR headsets could work
the same way.
Meredith Oke (48:23):
I mean, this is really crazy because I think a
foundational premise that people who listen to
this podcast anyway have is that our screens are
just. They're just bad for us. And all we can do
is minimize our use and mitigate. And mitigate
what's coming out of them and do our best to work
around it. This is like a bit of a shift into the
(48:46):
idea that there's a way to do it. I'm not like,
advocating we should have more screen time in our
lives, but we all are going to have some at this
point. So this is really a shift to think about.
Oh, it could actually be not bad for us.
Lilliana Lettieri (49:04):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (49:05):
Is that where you got to, Liliana?
Lilliana Lettieri (49:06):
Absolutely. And even now, you know, just thinking
of so many, you know, elder care facilities,
medical facilities, you know, children in schools
that don't have windows. I mean, there's so many
ways that, you know, people that don't have
access to. To sunlight to the extent that they
(49:29):
need it, and they either need to be in front of a
screen for whatever amount of time, or the screen
could just, you know, be a tool to bring them the
sunlight that they need to a place that, you
know, that that's removed from the natural
environment. I mean, there are, you know, you can
go, you know, bunkers, you could go, you know,
(49:51):
but, like, it doesn't need to be that extreme. It
could just be an office space. Space Or a medical
facility where somebody, you know, they're.
They're not mobile enough to go outside and get
the morning sun, but they can sit up in their
hospital bed and, you know, watch TV or whatever
and get that beautiful sunlight into their, into
their, into their eyes, their brains, their
(50:11):
skins, their cells.
Meredith Oke (50:14):
This is amazing. Okay, so, so where are things
at? You know, like, can, can we order these right
now? Can I go back? Like, can we go byline?
Lilliana Lettieri (50:25):
Not yet, but we're working really hard to get
there. So we have some really amazing prototypes
and we are currently talking to some promising
manufacturing partners and currently fundraising,
you know, to get that pilot build. I think we're
(50:46):
gonna, we're gonna, you know, need a minimum
order of at least a few hundred, if not a
thousand. That's our goal in 2026, is to be able
to build at least a few hundred and get them out
to people. You know, hopefully with any luck,
we'll be able to do pre sales to let people know,
(51:06):
look, this is when they're going to be available.
You know, you can get yours now and we'll deliver
it in six months or whatever that turns out to
be. So. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:16):
Okay, so amazing. So how can we help? Can people
get on your wait list?
Lilliana Lettieri (51:21):
Absolutely, yeah. The, the most impactful way
that any listener can help is honestly just to
sign up for our newsletter. Follow us on social
media, on Instagram, on YouTube, LinkedIn, if
that's your, if that's your social media of
choice and it's really spreading the word and
(51:42):
getting people excited and talking about it is
the biggest help. You know, like I said, we're
talking to investors and, you know, raising
money, raising capital right now to be able to do
that initial production run. But the best way for
us to show investors that there's excitement and
there's traction and that people want this is to
(52:04):
have engagement and followership and, you know,
people signing up and visiting the page and
watching the demo video and.
Meredith Oke (52:13):
Okay, well, we are all in. Okay, we have a
mission. We have a mission, friends.
Lilliana Lettieri (52:18):
Let's get.
Meredith Oke (52:19):
We would, we would all really love to have these,
to have this become an option in the world, if
not at some point the default option. So where.
What is the website to sign up? Is it pixen?
Lilliana Lettieri (52:34):
Yeah. Www.pixun.com co.
Meredith Oke (52:40):
Okay, so that's pixen P I X U N co and we'll put
links in the show notes and we'll do shout outs
and I mean, obviously people in this community
are going to be really excited about this. For
those of you who are members of QBC Pro, Peter
and Liliana did a very deep dive into the
science. I know some of you really, really like
(53:02):
that. Keep it a little more high level on the
podcast so we don't scare away the new people. We
like you new people. Welcome. Come on in the
water's farm in the circadian world. But yes, I
want to make sure, because I know Peter, you
have, like, have some very, a lot of deep science
behind this. So if that is of interest to you,
make sure you're in the, in the QVC Pro
(53:23):
membership. That video is in there. Okay. Well,
I, like, I'm so grateful that you two are doing
this. Thank you, like, truly. You know, I've just
been noticing lately, like, there, there, we all
play a different role. Some of us are
communicators, some of us are scientists. And I
think the entrepreneurs and the people who start
(53:45):
companies are a huge, huge piece of it because to
be a successful company, you have to be. You have
to share the message and communicate it out why
you're doing what you're doing. So you're
spreading the, spreading the knowledge. So thank
you both. Any, any last thoughts you'd like to
leave us with? Like, I just want to say. So I did
(54:08):
really, I, I didn't really wrap my head around
what you guys were doing until I went to the, to
your website and you have a picture of the
monitor and a picture of the, of the cable and an
arrow that says sunlight in here to the cable.
That is very clear. And that's when the penny
(54:28):
dropped for me. I'm like, how? What?
Lilliana Lettieri (54:31):
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm glad. We had some
amazing interns who really helped us up our game
on the website and started us going on social
media. Like, that's, you know, that's not my
forte, but we're trying hard. So, yeah, I mean,
the education piece is huge. Our mission, you
(54:54):
know, alongside and in parallel to building a
product that we believe in, that we, you know,
that we have a mission and a passion behind is
really education. I mean, we really have to be
the storytellers and, you know, be the educators
to raise awareness about the impact that these
(55:16):
devices that we all have to interact with are
having on us. So, yeah, I mean, if for no other
reason than to just learn a little something here
and there. Join us on the ride. We'll try to keep
putting blogs out and educational content. I
(55:39):
mean, that's part of it too. We just want to give
people tools to help them heal and help them be
able to survive in the digital world more in a.
In a healthier way.
Meredith Oke (55:51):
Yes. And everybody, like, this is. This is it.
Everyone's like, oh, what's going to happen in
the future? And we have a tech dystopia, or we
have a chronic illness epidemic, or this or that.
It's like, these are the moments. Like right now,
going to sign up for your newsletter to support a
company that could potentially, like, transform
(56:12):
the paradigm of screens in our lives. Like, we
all have agency here. We can all participate.
This is so fun and cool.
Peter Veto (56:21):
Yes. And thank you so, so much, Meredith, for all
your support. And you speak about these issues so
eloquently, which we are just trying to learn to
do, getting out of the academic silos. And so
it's a very different convolocation style. And
also here in this little conversation, you
summarized what we were saying, especially what I
(56:41):
was saying, so much better than we do. So there's
a lot to learn for us. But till then, thank you
so much for what the great work.
Lilliana Lettieri (56:51):
Oh, thanks, Peter.
Meredith Oke (56:52):
Thank you both. Thank you both for being here.
And truly, yes, let's stay in touch. And anything
we can do to support the evolution of this
company, we're here. We're here for it.
Lilliana Lettieri (57:06):
Thank you so much, Meredith. I'm really glad
we'll have you back soon. All right, sounds great.
Peter Veto (57:11):
Thank you.
Lilliana Lettieri (57:12):
Take care.
Meredith Oke (57:14):
This has been the Quantum Biology Collective
podcast. To find a practitioner who practices
from this point of view, visit our
directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are
a practitioner, definitely take a look at the
Applied Quantum Biology certification, a six week
(57:34):
study of the science of the new human health
professional paradigm and its practical
application with your patients and clients. We
also love to feature graduates of the program on
this very podcast. Until next time, the QVC.
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