July 15, 2024 • 33 mins
Improv isn't just for comedians; it's a dynamic tool that can foster creativity, adaptability, and collaboration in the workplace. Join us as we chat with improv genius Gary Ware who reveals how improv principles can enhance training programs, boost employee engagement, and cultivate a culture of innovation. Whether you're an L&D professional, a manager, or simply curious about new learning methodologies, this episode promises to spark fresh ideas and inspire you to think outside the box.
Special GuestGary Ware, Breakthrough Play
Gary Ware is a dynamic facilitator, magic enthusiast, and the visionary founder of Breakthrough Play.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Laughter, fun, and general hilaritymight not be the first things that
pop to mind when you think about workor training, but this episode could
be the whoopee cushion that takesyour learning strategy in surprising,
playful, and bold new directions.
Hi Lab Mates!
Welcome to the Social Learning Lab.
A podclass about social learning at work.
In this episode, we chat with anexpert in fun and facilitation
(00:22):
to learn about how play can takelearning design to the next level.
Let's go.
Hi, labmates.
I'm Katie and I'm here withNicole and Rocio from the Your ID
team; and today we're thrilled towelcome Gary Ware to the podclass.
Gary is a dynamic facilitator, magicenthusiast, and the visionary founder
(00:44):
of Breakthrough Play, whose missionis to help busy professionals win the
game of life through transformativeplay and enhance team creativity,
confidence, and collaboration.
So, thank you so much for joining us.
We're just so excitedto chat with you today.
Happy to be here.
This is going to be a lot of fun.
Awesome.
So, my first question is what drew youto your mission of prioritizing play and
(01:06):
inspiring others to infuse work with play?
It was because I, for the longesttime in my professional career, I had
this belief that play is somethingthat should be separate from work.
It's something that you do afteryou're done with your day's work.
And, don't get me wrong, like I'mall about hard work, but then I took
an improv class, and that just, justblew everything open, and it got
(01:30):
me just sort of rethinking, how Iapproach work and productivity and
collaboration and stuff like that.
And, that was, oh my gosh, it's beenover 15 years since I took a first
improv class, so it's evolved since then.
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
I'm a fan of improv as well.
And, I know you presented atATD this year on how improv
(01:51):
can make training more dynamic.
So, how did you originally, like,make the connection between, so
you took this improv, you haveall this experience, and then the
field of learning and development?
It's interesting, my sort ofpath to improv, it was not
like, most people's path.
I, I think it's becoming morecommon now, but back then, I,
again, had no, ambition on, on beingan actor or anything like that.
(02:16):
I wanted to be better at publicspeaking and I wanted to be able to
be more dynamic and think on my feet.
And, I took Toastmasters,which is pretty common with
public speaking and I hated it.
It caused a lot of anxiety and stress,don't get me wrong, provides a lot of
great structure and, and helps, especiallyif you're new to public speaking.
But after doing it for about like a fewmonths, I just, it just wasn't my jam.
(02:41):
And so, I was in search of somethingelse, because I knew that this is
something that I wanted to improve on.
And, I knew that if I can improvemy ability to communicate, I can
help, you know, so many people.
And at the time, my professionwas marketing and communication.
So, that was my, my journey.
And then, a mentor said, "Hey, whydon't you take an improv class?"
and I was like, what, what does improvhave to do with public speaking?
(03:03):
Boy, was I wrong?
I, and again, and most peoplehave the same perception.
That's why I love that I've gonethrough this journey, because it
helped me have empathy for others.
I again thought like, oh,you take an improv class.
It's like a standup comedy class wherethey're like, all right, be funny.
And, everyone's like sort oflooking at you and stuff like
that, but it's nothing like that.
It's all about how canyou think on your feet?
We do these silly games that helps youlearn in a more dynamic way; and, as soon
(03:28):
as, I took that class, one, I was like,I left that first class so happy, like
I, like essentially we just played gamesfor two hours, but we also learned stuff.
And then, I immediately startedseeing the connections between what
I was doing in this improv classand my day to day and how I can
be, you know, just a better human.
And then, so then I started bringingthese activities to friends and
(03:52):
colleagues and I became the improv guy.
And then, fast forward to what Ido now in learning and development.
I, you know, when I went on thispath of becoming a facilitator and a
trainer, I had a number of folks comeup to me that were in that field and
say, "man, I get so nervous doing this.
Do you have any, any tips?
Like, you know, Murphy's lawand all the other stuff".
(04:14):
And I said, I got you.
This is no different than what Ido when I perform improv on stage.
I still get nervous, but we have ritualsthat we do to help us get our sort
of everything in check, so that wecan be the best version of ourselves.
And, in an improv scene, because it'sall made up, things go off course all
the time, just like when, you know,we're in a, in a training session and
(04:36):
it's all about having the right mindsetand being able to, sort of, pivot,
and, and keep your composure, thatis, is the difference, because again,
you think people haven't figured out,it's like what Iron Mike Tyson says,
"Everyone thinks they have a planuntil they're punched in the face".
And, I know being in these trainingsessions, thinking that I have a plan;
(04:57):
and then all of a sudden, you know, boom,internet goes out; or oh, we thought we
had everything for slides and, oh, sorry,we don't have the right dongle; or, you
know, now, you know, you realize that theknowledge of the team that you're teaching
is not what was in the original brief.
So now, you have toadjust all these things.
(05:18):
I've learned from 15 years ofmaking things up as an improviser.
That's amazing.
And, I love that youhave rituals in advance.
Like, do you, have you found any waythat like, that, that translates,
into, you know, the facilitation that'shappening in L and D that you'd recommend?
Yeah.
Like the rituals you said you,you did, your improv team does.
(05:39):
Yeah.
The main thing is just getting grounded,because a lot of times we come into
this, you know, lot of anxiety and,and just naturally we want to do our
best; and just like with, with improv,I still get nervous to this day.
I, I've been performingfor as long as I have.
I still get butterflies in my stomach.
And, what we do, we have a processof first getting grounded, you
know, some, some group breathing;and then, we get energized.
(06:01):
We have a few activitieswith getting energized.
And then, it's just all aboutconnecting with each other.
That is the difference between, in myopinion, a really good improv show and
a show that it's like, eh, not so, like,technically, like we did all the right
things, but it just didn't gel right.
And, I feel like it's very similar whenyou're working with groups, you know,
we want everyone to have high levels of,high levels of psychological safety, and
(06:23):
you do that by, in my opinion, I havethis belief connection over content.
So, if you can do a few activitiesthat are going to get people, sort
of, feeling more like they belong,realizing like, Oh, guess what, this is
a safe spot, or I like to say a braveplace, you know, where I can stretch
myself and get outside my comfort zone.
Then, they're going to be morelikely, when we're asking them to
step up to actually take the leap.
(06:46):
That's awesome.
That's so great.
And, have you found like there'smisconceptions about improv or
about play more generally thatyou've noticed people have?
Well, the first thing with improv, mostfolks, again, because their perception
of improv is what they see on the stage.
They've either seen a stage performanceof improv, or they may be seeing a TV
show, like whose line is it anyway.
And then, they see these witty, creativepeople on a stage doing things that like,
(07:10):
you're like, I couldn't ever do this.
So, that's the first perceptionand misconception of, of improv
is that you have to be funny.
And, if you take a class, since youthink your belief is you have to be
funny, you think that the class isgoing to be all about being funny.
And, that's the first thingcouldn't further be for the truth.
It's all about, in improv, we, we havethis belief that we is greater than me.
It's all about an ensemble.
(07:31):
And, in order for us to actually co-createon a stage without a script, we first have
to trust each other, like each other, feelcomfortable being around each other, so
that we can be silly, you know, again,so that is what the activities are all
about is just getting us feeling morecomfortable, you know, being seen and
seeing each other and listening all thesethings that are, in my opinion, life
(07:54):
skills that could translate to everything.
So, that's that with improv.
And, as it pertains to play, a lotof folks see play through a very
narrow lens, through child's play orgoofing off, which is a form of play.
But, play is a huge spectrum.
And, when I, you know, start doing,especially work, you know, working with
(08:15):
teams, helping them to collaborate,helping them to, you know, create
cultures where people can thrive.
They quickly realize the differencebetween, you know, that sort of like,
Oh, yeah, you know, know, the playthat kids do and what I call purposeful
play, you know, play that actually havea deeper meaning that you can use as
a way to get very specific outcomes.
(08:37):
Awesome.
And, we define like sociallearning as learning by observing,
knowledge sharing, or otherwisecollaborating with other people.
So, I'm already hearing a lot of phrasesin there, like we, the priority of the
we, and the people before the content.
So I'm just curious, like howplaying improv games, how you've
seen it encourage social learning?
For the first thing, I like totell folks that you could not
(08:59):
look cool doing these activities.
You do not...
they are very silly.
They're very wacky.
And, because of that, itneutralizes the playing field.
Status is not a thing.
The person that is a VP of a department,it looks exactly the same as the person
that's an individual contributor.
So, that's one thing of creatingthis environment where people can
(09:20):
thrive and, and, you know, speaktheir mind and stuff like that.
That's the first thing.
But then, the cool thing is Ilike to say these activities are
like, when I was younger, I reallydidn't like to eat vegetables.
Again, what kid does?
I have two and they, for some reason,they think they're allergic to vegetables.
And so, my mom, she wouldhide the vegetables in like
(09:42):
casseroles or mac and cheese.
And, and, and nowadays, I'm like, ohman, mom, like smoothies is the thing.
That's what I feel like these activitiesdo is that, normally, like if you
go and like, "hey, we're going toaddress micromanagement or something
like, you know, all these thingsthat we want to shift behavior for".
A lot of times we can get defensive.
(10:02):
We can like, what are you talking about?
I, I, my management style is,is perfectly fine, you know, why
do I need to take this class?
But the cool thing about theseactivities, the lessons are
wrapped up in these wacky games.
So, you're playing these games, andI have this belief that how you play
anything is how you do everything.
So, you're going to just play the game.
(10:23):
You're going to act howyou would normally act.
And, the game is set up to set up certainemotions or certain ways of thinking.
And then, afterwards, we talk aboutwhat was challenging about the
activity, like, what did you learn?
And, the cool thing is the thingsthat you need to be successful at the
activity are things that you probablyneed to be successful in real life.
So then, we run the game back again.
(10:44):
I'm like, all right, cool.
So, I'll give you anexample of an activity.
I this one of the biggest things that,when I get brought into work with a
team, a lot of times they say, "yeah, theteam, they're trying to do everything".
And, I was like, I hear you, right.
And so, we have this what I like tosay, an activity that is designed to
show you that you can not multitask.
(11:04):
And I asked, I asked people, how manypeople feel like you multitask a lot?
And so many things, how many peoplefeel like you're good at multitasking?
All right, cool.
Remember that it's going to come back.
And so, we do the activity in the way thatthe activity is designed is that you're
in a group of five and the person in themiddle is the focus and their job, they
have a single job, they have one mainjob, which is to listen to the person in
front of them, tell them a true story.
(11:26):
They're going to need to be ableto tell it, repeat as much details
they heard after 45 seconds.
That's already challenging enough.
However, they have some sub tasksthat they have to do simultaneously.
And, they have the people to the, tothe left, to the right and behind them,
simultaneously asking them differenttypes of questions, like simple
(11:48):
addition questions, simple spellingquestions, fill in the blank questions,
all having, all this is having, orcoming together all at the same time.
And then, after 45seconds, I ding the bell.
I ask the person who was the focus torepeat as much detail as they heard; and
then, the person who told the story haveto give them a thumbs up or thumbs down.
You can only get a thumbs up if youget all the detail correct, 100%, 99.
(12:09):
999%.
If you miss anything, it's a thumbs down.
And, most of the time,no one gets it right.
No one gets it right.
But they, they try.
They try so hard.
And, the cool thing, so a number ofthings happen during this activity.
One, you see people under stress.
This activity is designed tocreate stress in the body.
And, you see peopledeer in the headlights.
(12:30):
Like, you, and then, and you ask thesepeople, alright, cool, what'd you hear?
And they're like, I don't know.
I heard nothing.
I don't even know.
I was there, but I don'tknow what you said.
And then, you ask, hey,how'd you do on the subject?
I failed everything.
And then, you get some people who arelike, I got everything else right.
And you're like, what about the story?
Uh, not so much.
So, anyways, you get allthese sort of things.
(12:51):
And then, we can have adiscussion about stress.
And, when you're under stress, yourbody produces cortisol and adrenaline
that gives you short term memory loss;that makes you make rash decisions.
It's not conducive to creative thinking.
Yada, yada, yada.
And then, we asked, you know, Iasked like, all right, how was this?
Anyone's, you know, see anyrelations to this in your day to day?
(13:14):
And, I, I kid you not, I'vehad executives, VP, you know,
high ranking officials ofcompanies break down in tears.
Oh my gosh.
I, this is my day to day.
I, how, how do we get out of it?
Yes.
This is, this is what I'm feeling on aday to day and I don't know what to do.
(13:34):
And so, we talk about, all right,if you were to do it again,
what would you do differently?
And, and then, this is where we, we havean open discussion about boundaries.
We have an open discussionabout prioritization.
So, and like, it's so interesting.
So, one person cheated and, but theway that they cheated is the perfect
way that we should approach everything.
So, I barely had, like, usually ifsomeone gets like a hundred percent, I
(13:57):
ask them other questions and it turns outthey're not playing the game correctly.
But this person played the game correctlyand got a hundred percent, and I, and I, I
had to know, like, what was your strategy?
So, what happened was, as soonas the game started, you got the,
like, barrage of questions and theperson started telling the story.
Very politely, he said, canyou hold on for a second?
He paused the person telling the story, hesaid, I will get you in a second, I'll get
(14:18):
you in a second, I'll get you in a second.
Alright, go on.
Boom.
Story continued, and then boop, blew thewhistle, and what he did, he answered them
five, you know, C A T, dog goes ruff ruff,and then, he, then he got back to the
other person, answered them with clarity,with detail, and it was just, Chef's Kiss.
Amazing.
And so, and that is justhow we should approach life.
(14:40):
So, the whole thing, I'm getting to mypoint is that this activity, the single
activity, allows us to explore so manydifferent topics and it neutralizes
everything as far as our sort of massand, and status that we can have an
open conversation about how we're doing.
Because I asked the question, "Hey, howdoes this relate to your day to day?"
That is fantastic.
(15:01):
Yeah, as we're just, yeah,
I was saying you didn't have togive a 15 minute e-learning module
on what does micro management mean.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I was like, I wouldreally struggle with that.
And then, but they're havinga real lived experience of it.
And, and I love the solution ofthe person who figured that out,
right, like, so we can't multitask.
That's awesome.
Do you have any other favoriteimprov or other games that
(15:23):
also encourage social learning?
There's, there's one that if you'veheard of improv games, you've probably
done this, but I, It's so foundation toeverything that I have to put it out.
Improv, the foundation of improv, isbuilt on this concept called "Yes, and".
Yes and means that we acceptthe reality that is presented in
front of us or on stage is calledan offer, and we build on it.
(15:45):
And so, on stage, it may look like, "Hey,you know, us two, we're in a cave and I'm
like, Oh my gosh, it's so dark in here.
And, the other person says,"yeah, oh my gosh, it is.
I'm glad I got the headlamps", youknow, so now we're acknowledging that
this is what the first person said.
So, we're listening, we're payingattention, and then we're building.
And so, this activity builds up to that.
So, the first time you go through theactivity, you, you say, all right,
(16:07):
we're going to plan a vacation.
You know, unlimited budget, you know,get all those constraints out of the way.
First person the goal is to get to anagreement as many agreements as possible.
So, your job is to pitch ideas,as many as ideas as you can.
Other person, your job is tojust say no to everything.
Let's just see how that works out.
And then, they go through.
It obviously doesn't work.
(16:28):
And then, we find out that theperson checks out and, and they,
after a while, they, you know,they, they're phoning it in.
All right, cool.
Pretty typical.
And then, we say, all right, let'stry yes, but, and then, we flip the
roles and have the other person go.
Then, the person who's listening hasto say yes to everything; and then say,
but, and say, why it's not going towork; and then, see how that works out.
It turns out it doesn't work any better.
(16:49):
And then, we go to the yesand approach where one person
gives us current of an idea.
The next person says, yes, they sayand they add on and go back and forth.
And then, we talk about the differencebetween the three different styles;
and, you know, how in the first timeit was pretty much just shutting
things down, ideas are going nowhere.
The next one is that they thoughtthey were being helpful by saying
yes, but we learned that anytimeyou say, but everything before
(17:11):
that is considered negated.
And then the other one, like wetalk about like, all right, cool.
You know, there's a lot ofenergy, everyone is contributing.
And then, I start to say, I get it.
Not all of these are feasible ideas.
That's not the pointwith a, Yes and mindset.
You're creating a space where everyonecan contribute, and then we can change
(17:31):
gears; and then, maybe then we getinto the more scrutinizing things, but
when we want everyone to contribute,we have to have a yes and mindset.
And so, through that activity, peoplestart to realize in real time, they're
experiencing, because again, even thoughthey know we're playing the game, they
still have those feelings when that personis saying no to everything that's right.
Like.
You're having that visceral response.
(17:51):
You're going to respond exactlyhow you would if we were at work.
And, every time you think you have a goodidea and your boss shuts it down, like..
And then, again, in the debrief,we, we discussed that like,
where do we see this show up?
And, you know, how is it not supportive?
And so, that's, that's atypical idea, typical activity.
And, one that doesn't get talked to,talked about a lot is an activity I
love to play with people in L and D.
(18:13):
It's a game called Monkey Wrench.
And, with that, you're tellinga true story, and you have a
partner, and the partner's job isto throw monkey wrenches at you.
So, verbal monkey wrenches,not real monkey wrenches.
So, as you're telling that story,they're gonna start to say random
objects, you know, stuff like that,and you have to incorporate that into
your, into your story as if it happened.
And then, keep the story going.
(18:34):
And so, what that's teaching you, not tobe a liar, what it's teaching you is how
to handle stress, because you had a plan.
And then, all of a sudden somethingout of the blue happens and you have to
process that, incorporate it, and move on.
And so, it's a great way of justdealing with the uncertainty, uh,
uncertainty of things that happen andkeeping your composure and moving on.
(18:58):
That's amazing.
I really, I want to, I alreadyjotted down like we should all as
a team do an in the lab episode,where we practice and try that.
yeah.
I'm laughing because I feellike I do that to you weekly.
I'm just like, Oh yeah.
And the client said
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it happens.
It's life.
But the cool thing is we played a game.
And, we're laughing through it.
And, and then I, sometimes Ieven asked, I said, This is no
(19:21):
different than what happens on yourday to day, except your mindset.
In this, you're coming from a playfulmindset, where you're seeing these as
opportunities for growth, and you're justtaking them, you're like, all right, cool.
And, you're dealing withthem in a positive way.
And then, you're moving on.
Same thing happens in a meeting, you know.
We don't have time to go into likesort of biases and stuff like that.
(19:42):
But a lot of times we have, FAB,which is, fundamental attribution
bias, uh, where we think that, sowhat's something that someone does
is a knock on their character.
When, if we were to do it, it'sa knock on the circumstance.
Like, for example, cutting someone off.
When someone cuts us off, we likethat jerk and blah, blah, blah.
When in reality, we haveno idea what was going on?
(20:03):
They may be a jerk.
There are jerks out there.
They also may be lost orthis, that, and the other.
But when we do it, we again look at thesituation and we don't judge ourselves.
So, why not again take the learningsfrom this activity and apply it to
real world when these things happen,because they're going to happen.
Take a breath.
(20:24):
Okay.
I hear you.
I see you.
And let's move on.
Yeah, I'm curious.
In addition to yes, and are thereother principles of improv that you see
translating really well into L and D?
There's a lot.
Yeah.
But, I'll give you a few.
The, one of the main things in the worldof improv and this is a mindset thing.
(20:44):
We, when we're doingimprov, we don't have props.
We don't have costumes.
We were just making things up.
And, one of the things that wastaught to me early on is that you
have everything you need right there.
And so, when I'm like in, you know,when I'm in a scene and I am like
(21:04):
collaborating with my scene partner,a lot of times I get my head like,
oh my God, what do I need to say?
But I have to remind myself,I have everything I need.
I have my scene partner.
We, anything we need, again, it's,it's make believe so we can make up
stuff, but it's, it's more of likea overarching thinking of like,
Hey, you have everything you need.
And so again, going back tolearning and development, I know
I've worked with people earlier intheir career and people further on.
(21:26):
And, a lot of times,you know, we have that.
comparison, right, comparisonis the thief of joy.
And, we think, oh, if I only had this,if I only had this; and it's true,
you know, if we had other things,maybe we could make things different.
But, if we just realize you haveeverything you need, you're good to go.
It really just helps us just take a step.
That's such a great reminder.
Yeah.
And, I want to touch on something youkind of brought up before, because in
(21:49):
season one of our podclass, like, weexplored the importance of psychological
safety for social learning and beyond.
So, I'm just curious, like howyou've seen improv and games
like you mentioned earlier, itkind of levels the playing field.
Are there other ways that it helpscreate psychological safety for teams?
So, there's this, and most activities dothis, but one that seems like a throwaway.
(22:10):
And I had been doing this activity fora good six years before I learned that
there was a deeper meaning behind it.
And, it's this activity, and it'sas an instructor, it's a great way
for us to learn our participantsnames and, and everyone is, you
know, new, so it's a great way foreveryone to learn everyone's names.
And so, what you invite peopleto do is do a movement and do
(22:32):
an alliteration with their name.
So, that again, you know, all thosethings put together, it makes it just
easier for people to memorize things.
So like, I might say "I amgoofy Gary"; and then everyone
acknowledges it and copies it,goofy Gary; and then we go around.
And so, again, repetition andhaving different sort of modalities,
it's easier to remember names.
But I, I talked to someone thatspecializes in improv for psychologists.
(22:55):
They said that is, is deeperthan just remembering names.
It's all about having someoneput part of themselves out there.
So again, being very vulnerable andwe're accepting that, not only are we
accepting it, but we're, we're seeing themand we're doing it right back to them.
And so, that creates quick belonging,because, again, you're being forced
(23:17):
to be vulnerable by like doing a weirdmovement; say, you know, some sort of
alliteration; and then to have, youknow, no, one's making fun of you,
not only is no one making fun of you,they're accepting it like, all right,
that's who you are; and then they'redoing it right back to you like boom.
Immediately, people just feellike they belong, they feel seen.
And, it is so interesting, becausegoing back to my teaching improv.
(23:41):
So, I got really into it performance wise.
I like, I naturally hadto go into teaching it.
So I, I teach at my local theater,and we do this level one, you
know, we do, we do the name game.
And, it becomes like, people callhim like, "Hey, look, it's early
Eric", this, that, and the other.
And, it just becomes this thing,how we introduce each other.
And, I didn't realize like,again, now it's just more of
(24:03):
creating this sense of belonging.
And so, that's, that is just one easything that again, that we do in improv
stuff, but think about in your trainings,how can you, that's why I believe in
connection over content, how can youdo something that one might force
folks to, you know, disclose something.
I love doing a game like True For Me,where you make some statements like,
(24:24):
eh, how many people morning people.
And, if it happened to be true for you,raise your hand and stuff like that.
It again, seems like a throwaway,but having people disclose personal
things about themselves createspsychological safety very quickly.
That is so fun and awesome.
And, I love how, yeah, there'sthat deeper level to it.
And, it's something easy.
Like you said, yeah, thatcan have this huge impact.
If people are listening and they'relike intrigued, but maybe nervous,
(24:46):
they might not have ever taken animprov class or, you know, they are
maybe hesitant to recommend playfulapproaches to training, even though
they see the value, like what adviceor words of encouragement do you have?
First thing is I hear you.
I see you.
It's not commonplace.
So, don't feel bad if you're just like,"eh, I don't know about this thing".
(25:06):
You're completely normal,completely natural.
And then, I invite peoplejust to see on a deeper level.
Realize that we're all playful beings.
And so, you might be looking at, as Imentioned, through a very narrow lens.
And, I like to say, you know, thinkabout a time when, so play is essentially
doing something for the sake of doingit without any sort of reward or
(25:28):
anything like that, that is enjoyable,and, especially when it involves other
people, like we get a chance to connect.
When was a time that you were aroundcolleagues, and you enjoyed being
there, and you were doing something.
And, and something other thanhappier and stuff like that.
I'm pretty sure there are, aretimes like, you know, oh yeah,
we had this walking meeting.
(25:49):
Um, or this one time, you know,it was after, you know, it was
after a long weekend, and then wetook a few moments for everyone to
check in and share what they did.
That's being playful, youknow, that is, again, doing
something for us to all connect.
So, it is possible to dothat on a smaller scale.
And so, that's the main thing.
I invite people to do things on asmaller scale and then slowly branch out.
As it pertains to improv, improvessentially is just connecting
(26:14):
with others, responding inthe moment in a positive way.
Take what you've seen, like onWhose Line Is It Anyway, and
just sort of set that aside.
That is a form of improv, but that'snot necessarily what we're doing here.
The fact that you're invitingpeople to respond on a prompt
and they don't have a scriptedanswer, that's, we're improvising.
And, if we can do that again on asmall scale, I'm pretty sure you've
(26:35):
done things that are consideredimprov, you just didn't realize that.
Yeah, it was just whatpopped into our head.
Our team is fully remoteand Nicole sent us.
What, they were like Mr.
Potato Head, but it was from May the 4th.
So, it was like Star Wars andwe all like built it together.
It was just a really silly,but meaningful interaction.
Yeah.
So it, yeah, it didn't take too longeither, but now I have that memory.
(26:57):
I did not expect thatto have any relevancy.
It's interesting, because I was thinkingof that too when Gary was talking.
I didn't expect it to have any relevancy.
I was just like, it's baby Yoda day.
Whatever.
We're going to have some fun.
But, actually, I was the last one to beable to put the potato head together.
It was a Mandalorian, Yamdalorian.
And, you know, Rocio was firstproject manager over here, figured
out how all the pieces fit andthey taught me how to do it.
(27:19):
And, I was like, Oh, this is such aninteresting commentary on our team.
Everybody kind of helped the next person.
It definitely highlighted our rolesin the team that we play every day.
100%.
Yeah, and I'm curious, are there anymemorable stories that you have, Gary,
for like an improv game that stoodout that you either participated in
or led in a professional development?
So, the one that I toldyou about the name game.
(27:40):
What, what I learned that I was justblown away and it just like, it was
one of those things, the moment Isaw it, like I connected the dots,
I was like, "Oh, it's so true".
And, I thought about all the times thatI've done it and how I was apprehensive
at first; and then I did it; and thenthe feeling that I got what people just,
sort of, like mirrored it back to me.
That was awesome.
Then, there was another time I was workingwith a large, sort of, insurance company.
(28:01):
And, I was working with thepeople that are in like PR and
it was their yearly retreat.
And so, they're normally at differentlocations all over, and this is their
one time a year to come together.
And, I was doing this activity called theAmazing Machine, and how it works is one
at a time, people get in and make a sillysound and movement, something that you
can repeat over and over again, and they,sort of, everyone's like, movements and
(28:25):
sounds, sort of, connect to each other.
And then, the, you have like 40 peopleall moving and doing this sound.
And then, the last person hasto look at the machine and name,
whatever this fictitious machineis that we all co-created.
It's like, Oh my gosh, it'sthe burrito folding machine.
And again, there's no wrong answers.
It's whatever they think it is.
It is.
And then, we celebrate andwe go over and over again.
So, that's the, that's the game.
It's very silly.
(28:46):
It's all about showing howwe can connect to each other.
How we, again, can think on ourfeet and, and things like that.
And, all about collaborationand co-creating.
And so, then in the debrief, youknow, just taking like, all right,
you know, what, you know, whatdo you think about that activity?
How does it connect to your day to day?
And this one gal, she raised herhand and she was very emotional and
she said, you know, it's challengingdoing the work that we do separate.
(29:11):
And, this is pre-pandemic, y'all.
This is like pre-pandemic.
They were just naturally dispersedteams just because they each were
at their each individual locations.
So, they have to do a lotof work by themselves.
And, that person said, "but doing thisactivity, it reminded me why I'm here.
I have to do my movement, so that, the,I can give the ability for the, the
(29:35):
doctors and the physicians to do theirs;so that the nurses can do theirs; so
that we all can come together and we canmake a difference in our patients lives".
I was like yeah, that is amazing.
And again, this is something thatthat person came up themselves.
And, it's even more meaningful, becausethey came up with it to themselves,
then if I were to said, all right,you know, what you should probably
(29:58):
get from this is this, this, and this.
You know, and as a facilitator, especiallyone that comes from an improv background,
we're always, our main thing is alwaysall about, we is greater than me.
So I, I, this belief thatthe knowledge is in the room.
So, I will reserve giving whatthey typically should see out of
it until after I heard from them,because you, I'm surprised so many
(30:21):
times of the responses that I get.
And then, a lot of times I'm like,I've never heard that before.
And, I totally see it.
And, I'm going to steal that,and I'm going to write that down.
And so, yeah, that, thoseare two that comes to mind.
That's awesome.
And I love that, you know, in thedebrief, like that becomes just
as important of a portion of thetraining as the actual activity.
Is there anything I didn't askthat you think is important for
(30:42):
people to know about this topic?
Man, very thorough.
You asked like, yeah, no kidding.
Like you asked everything.
And, the only thing I can say is, there,there, like, we talked about people being
hesitant, but it's all about the action.
That's where, that's where it comes from.
So, it's not a question.
It's just more of an invite to, youknow, whoever may be receiving this,
(31:05):
however you're receiving this, is mychallenge to you is, what is one thing
that you could do that you can explore?
And, I will bring in another improvmindset is embracing mistakes.
And, in the world of improvisation,we make mistakes all the time,
but we have this belief thatthere's no such things as mistakes.
Mistakes are gifts.
So, if you happen to make a mistake,how can you celebrate yourself?
(31:28):
And, I like to say, we havea thing called a failure bow.
So, if you make a mistake, we go ta-daas a way to just reinforce that, "hey, I
am just learning and I'm getting better".
So, that is my invite is what can you do?
What is something that you can dojust to put this out into the world?
I love that so much.
And, I need to hear that every day.
And, I love the idea of a failure bow.
Well, if people would like to learn moreabout your work, where can they find you?
(31:51):
You can go to my website,BreakthroughPlay.com, where you can,
you know, get resources, you know, checkout all the stuff that I've been up to.
And, I'm on LinkedIn.
You can just look me up, Gary Ware.
I love chatting about this stuff, so feelfree to, to reach out, send a message.
I welcome the conversation.
Well, thank you so much on behalf of thewhole Your Instructional Designer team.
Thank you for being partof our podcast today.
(32:12):
Yay!
Thank
you for having me.
Such a delight.
A big Yes, and to everything Gary shared,these are the nuggets of wisdom we're
taking away from this conversation.
Separating work and playis a missed opportunity.
You can wrap lessons in wackygames the same way veggies
get hidden in tasty meals.
Play can help build trust,create psychological safety, and
(32:33):
encourage people to take risks andgo outside their comfort zones.
Everyone looks uncool doingimprov activities in games,
which levels the playing field.
An insight from the world of improvthat carries over to work and
training is, "We is greater than me".
Another insight from improv, youalready have everything you need.
Play is a spectrum that includespurposeful play, which can
(32:55):
support specific outcomes.
Debrief after playing games so peoplecan reflect on valuable takeaways.
Ask, how does this connectto your day to day?
We hope you're thinkingwhat we're thinking.
Let the games begin.
In fact, now it's your turn.
For your experiment, you'll answerGary's challenge to explore one
element from this episode andcelebrate mistakes along the way.
(33:17):
You can find the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the Social
Learning Lab community on LinkedIn.
In the community, you can also shareyour stories, get feedback and insights
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
Also, this week we're hosting a freelive masterclass called Three Ways to
Level Up from ID to L& D Strategist.
Check out the link in the shownotes to find a day and time
(33:39):
that works with your schedule.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleaselike, subscribe, or share so we can
continue to build a supportive groupof social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
Laughter, fun, and general hilaritymight not be the first things that
pop to mind when you think about workor training, but this episode could
be the whoopee cushion that takesyour learning strategy in surprising,
playful, and bold new directions.
Hi Lab Mates!
Welcome to the Social Learning Lab.
A podclass about social learning at work.
In this episode, we chat with anexpert in fun and facilitation
(00:22):
to learn about how play can takelearning design to the next level.
Let's go.
Hi, labmates.
I'm Katie and I'm here withNicole and Rocio from the Your ID
team; and today we're thrilled towelcome Gary Ware to the podclass.
Gary is a dynamic facilitator, magicenthusiast, and the visionary founder
(00:44):
of Breakthrough Play, whose missionis to help busy professionals win the
game of life through transformativeplay and enhance team creativity,
confidence, and collaboration.
So, thank you so much for joining us.
We're just so excitedto chat with you today.
Happy to be here.
This is going to be a lot of fun.
Awesome.
So, my first question is what drew youto your mission of prioritizing play and
(01:06):
inspiring others to infuse work with play?
It was because I, for the longesttime in my professional career, I had
this belief that play is somethingthat should be separate from work.
It's something that you do afteryou're done with your day's work.
And, don't get me wrong, like I'mall about hard work, but then I took
an improv class, and that just, justblew everything open, and it got
(01:30):
me just sort of rethinking, how Iapproach work and productivity and
collaboration and stuff like that.
And, that was, oh my gosh, it's beenover 15 years since I took a first
improv class, so it's evolved since then.
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
I'm a fan of improv as well.
And, I know you presented atATD this year on how improv
(01:51):
can make training more dynamic.
So, how did you originally, like,make the connection between, so
you took this improv, you haveall this experience, and then the
field of learning and development?
It's interesting, my sort ofpath to improv, it was not
like, most people's path.
I, I think it's becoming morecommon now, but back then, I,
again, had no, ambition on, on beingan actor or anything like that.
(02:16):
I wanted to be better at publicspeaking and I wanted to be able to
be more dynamic and think on my feet.
And, I took Toastmasters,which is pretty common with
public speaking and I hated it.
It caused a lot of anxiety and stress,don't get me wrong, provides a lot of
great structure and, and helps, especiallyif you're new to public speaking.
But after doing it for about like a fewmonths, I just, it just wasn't my jam.
(02:41):
And so, I was in search of somethingelse, because I knew that this is
something that I wanted to improve on.
And, I knew that if I can improvemy ability to communicate, I can
help, you know, so many people.
And at the time, my professionwas marketing and communication.
So, that was my, my journey.
And then, a mentor said, "Hey, whydon't you take an improv class?"
and I was like, what, what does improvhave to do with public speaking?
(03:03):
Boy, was I wrong?
I, and again, and most peoplehave the same perception.
That's why I love that I've gonethrough this journey, because it
helped me have empathy for others.
I again thought like, oh,you take an improv class.
It's like a standup comedy class wherethey're like, all right, be funny.
And, everyone's like sort oflooking at you and stuff like
that, but it's nothing like that.
It's all about how canyou think on your feet?
We do these silly games that helps youlearn in a more dynamic way; and, as soon
(03:28):
as, I took that class, one, I was like,I left that first class so happy, like
I, like essentially we just played gamesfor two hours, but we also learned stuff.
And then, I immediately startedseeing the connections between what
I was doing in this improv classand my day to day and how I can
be, you know, just a better human.
And then, so then I started bringingthese activities to friends and
(03:52):
colleagues and I became the improv guy.
And then, fast forward to what Ido now in learning and development.
I, you know, when I went on thispath of becoming a facilitator and a
trainer, I had a number of folks comeup to me that were in that field and
say, "man, I get so nervous doing this.
Do you have any, any tips?
Like, you know, Murphy's lawand all the other stuff".
(04:14):
And I said, I got you.
This is no different than what Ido when I perform improv on stage.
I still get nervous, but we have ritualsthat we do to help us get our sort
of everything in check, so that wecan be the best version of ourselves.
And, in an improv scene, because it'sall made up, things go off course all
the time, just like when, you know,we're in a, in a training session and
(04:36):
it's all about having the right mindsetand being able to, sort of, pivot,
and, and keep your composure, thatis, is the difference, because again,
you think people haven't figured out,it's like what Iron Mike Tyson says,
"Everyone thinks they have a planuntil they're punched in the face".
And, I know being in these trainingsessions, thinking that I have a plan;
(04:57):
and then all of a sudden, you know, boom,internet goes out; or oh, we thought we
had everything for slides and, oh, sorry,we don't have the right dongle; or, you
know, now, you know, you realize that theknowledge of the team that you're teaching
is not what was in the original brief.
So now, you have toadjust all these things.
(05:18):
I've learned from 15 years ofmaking things up as an improviser.
That's amazing.
And, I love that youhave rituals in advance.
Like, do you, have you found any waythat like, that, that translates,
into, you know, the facilitation that'shappening in L and D that you'd recommend?
Yeah.
Like the rituals you said you,you did, your improv team does.
(05:39):
Yeah.
The main thing is just getting grounded,because a lot of times we come into
this, you know, lot of anxiety and,and just naturally we want to do our
best; and just like with, with improv,I still get nervous to this day.
I, I've been performingfor as long as I have.
I still get butterflies in my stomach.
And, what we do, we have a processof first getting grounded, you
know, some, some group breathing;and then, we get energized.
(06:01):
We have a few activitieswith getting energized.
And then, it's just all aboutconnecting with each other.
That is the difference between, in myopinion, a really good improv show and
a show that it's like, eh, not so, like,technically, like we did all the right
things, but it just didn't gel right.
And, I feel like it's very similar whenyou're working with groups, you know,
we want everyone to have high levels of,high levels of psychological safety, and
(06:23):
you do that by, in my opinion, I havethis belief connection over content.
So, if you can do a few activitiesthat are going to get people, sort
of, feeling more like they belong,realizing like, Oh, guess what, this is
a safe spot, or I like to say a braveplace, you know, where I can stretch
myself and get outside my comfort zone.
Then, they're going to be morelikely, when we're asking them to
step up to actually take the leap.
(06:46):
That's awesome.
That's so great.
And, have you found like there'smisconceptions about improv or
about play more generally thatyou've noticed people have?
Well, the first thing with improv, mostfolks, again, because their perception
of improv is what they see on the stage.
They've either seen a stage performanceof improv, or they may be seeing a TV
show, like whose line is it anyway.
And then, they see these witty, creativepeople on a stage doing things that like,
(07:10):
you're like, I couldn't ever do this.
So, that's the first perceptionand misconception of, of improv
is that you have to be funny.
And, if you take a class, since youthink your belief is you have to be
funny, you think that the class isgoing to be all about being funny.
And, that's the first thingcouldn't further be for the truth.
It's all about, in improv, we, we havethis belief that we is greater than me.
It's all about an ensemble.
(07:31):
And, in order for us to actually co-createon a stage without a script, we first have
to trust each other, like each other, feelcomfortable being around each other, so
that we can be silly, you know, again,so that is what the activities are all
about is just getting us feeling morecomfortable, you know, being seen and
seeing each other and listening all thesethings that are, in my opinion, life
(07:54):
skills that could translate to everything.
So, that's that with improv.
And, as it pertains to play, a lotof folks see play through a very
narrow lens, through child's play orgoofing off, which is a form of play.
But, play is a huge spectrum.
And, when I, you know, start doing,especially work, you know, working with
(08:15):
teams, helping them to collaborate,helping them to, you know, create
cultures where people can thrive.
They quickly realize the differencebetween, you know, that sort of like,
Oh, yeah, you know, know, the playthat kids do and what I call purposeful
play, you know, play that actually havea deeper meaning that you can use as
a way to get very specific outcomes.
(08:37):
Awesome.
And, we define like sociallearning as learning by observing,
knowledge sharing, or otherwisecollaborating with other people.
So, I'm already hearing a lot of phrasesin there, like we, the priority of the
we, and the people before the content.
So I'm just curious, like howplaying improv games, how you've
seen it encourage social learning?
For the first thing, I like totell folks that you could not
(08:59):
look cool doing these activities.
You do not...
they are very silly.
They're very wacky.
And, because of that, itneutralizes the playing field.
Status is not a thing.
The person that is a VP of a department,it looks exactly the same as the person
that's an individual contributor.
So, that's one thing of creatingthis environment where people can
(09:20):
thrive and, and, you know, speaktheir mind and stuff like that.
That's the first thing.
But then, the cool thing is Ilike to say these activities are
like, when I was younger, I reallydidn't like to eat vegetables.
Again, what kid does?
I have two and they, for some reason,they think they're allergic to vegetables.
And so, my mom, she wouldhide the vegetables in like
(09:42):
casseroles or mac and cheese.
And, and, and nowadays, I'm like, ohman, mom, like smoothies is the thing.
That's what I feel like these activitiesdo is that, normally, like if you
go and like, "hey, we're going toaddress micromanagement or something
like, you know, all these thingsthat we want to shift behavior for".
A lot of times we can get defensive.
(10:02):
We can like, what are you talking about?
I, I, my management style is,is perfectly fine, you know, why
do I need to take this class?
But the cool thing about theseactivities, the lessons are
wrapped up in these wacky games.
So, you're playing these games, andI have this belief that how you play
anything is how you do everything.
So, you're going to just play the game.
(10:23):
You're going to act howyou would normally act.
And, the game is set up to set up certainemotions or certain ways of thinking.
And then, afterwards, we talk aboutwhat was challenging about the
activity, like, what did you learn?
And, the cool thing is the thingsthat you need to be successful at the
activity are things that you probablyneed to be successful in real life.
So then, we run the game back again.
(10:44):
I'm like, all right, cool.
So, I'll give you anexample of an activity.
I this one of the biggest things that,when I get brought into work with a
team, a lot of times they say, "yeah, theteam, they're trying to do everything".
And, I was like, I hear you, right.
And so, we have this what I like tosay, an activity that is designed to
show you that you can not multitask.
(11:04):
And I asked, I asked people, how manypeople feel like you multitask a lot?
And so many things, how many peoplefeel like you're good at multitasking?
All right, cool.
Remember that it's going to come back.
And so, we do the activity in the way thatthe activity is designed is that you're
in a group of five and the person in themiddle is the focus and their job, they
have a single job, they have one mainjob, which is to listen to the person in
front of them, tell them a true story.
(11:26):
They're going to need to be ableto tell it, repeat as much details
they heard after 45 seconds.
That's already challenging enough.
However, they have some sub tasksthat they have to do simultaneously.
And, they have the people to the, tothe left, to the right and behind them,
simultaneously asking them differenttypes of questions, like simple
(11:48):
addition questions, simple spellingquestions, fill in the blank questions,
all having, all this is having, orcoming together all at the same time.
And then, after 45seconds, I ding the bell.
I ask the person who was the focus torepeat as much detail as they heard; and
then, the person who told the story haveto give them a thumbs up or thumbs down.
You can only get a thumbs up if youget all the detail correct, 100%, 99.
(12:09):
999%.
If you miss anything, it's a thumbs down.
And, most of the time,no one gets it right.
No one gets it right.
But they, they try.
They try so hard.
And, the cool thing, so a number ofthings happen during this activity.
One, you see people under stress.
This activity is designed tocreate stress in the body.
And, you see peopledeer in the headlights.
(12:30):
Like, you, and then, and you ask thesepeople, alright, cool, what'd you hear?
And they're like, I don't know.
I heard nothing.
I don't even know.
I was there, but I don'tknow what you said.
And then, you ask, hey,how'd you do on the subject?
I failed everything.
And then, you get some people who arelike, I got everything else right.
And you're like, what about the story?
Uh, not so much.
So, anyways, you get allthese sort of things.
(12:51):
And then, we can have adiscussion about stress.
And, when you're under stress, yourbody produces cortisol and adrenaline
that gives you short term memory loss;that makes you make rash decisions.
It's not conducive to creative thinking.
Yada, yada, yada.
And then, we asked, you know, Iasked like, all right, how was this?
Anyone's, you know, see anyrelations to this in your day to day?
(13:14):
And, I, I kid you not, I'vehad executives, VP, you know,
high ranking officials ofcompanies break down in tears.
Oh my gosh.
I, this is my day to day.
I, how, how do we get out of it?
Yes.
This is, this is what I'm feeling on aday to day and I don't know what to do.
(13:34):
And so, we talk about, all right,if you were to do it again,
what would you do differently?
And, and then, this is where we, we havean open discussion about boundaries.
We have an open discussionabout prioritization.
So, and like, it's so interesting.
So, one person cheated and, but theway that they cheated is the perfect
way that we should approach everything.
So, I barely had, like, usually ifsomeone gets like a hundred percent, I
(13:57):
ask them other questions and it turns outthey're not playing the game correctly.
But this person played the game correctlyand got a hundred percent, and I, and I, I
had to know, like, what was your strategy?
So, what happened was, as soonas the game started, you got the,
like, barrage of questions and theperson started telling the story.
Very politely, he said, canyou hold on for a second?
He paused the person telling the story, hesaid, I will get you in a second, I'll get
(14:18):
you in a second, I'll get you in a second.
Alright, go on.
Boom.
Story continued, and then boop, blew thewhistle, and what he did, he answered them
five, you know, C A T, dog goes ruff ruff,and then, he, then he got back to the
other person, answered them with clarity,with detail, and it was just, Chef's Kiss.
Amazing.
And so, and that is justhow we should approach life.
(14:40):
So, the whole thing, I'm getting to mypoint is that this activity, the single
activity, allows us to explore so manydifferent topics and it neutralizes
everything as far as our sort of massand, and status that we can have an
open conversation about how we're doing.
Because I asked the question, "Hey, howdoes this relate to your day to day?"
That is fantastic.
(15:01):
Yeah, as we're just, yeah,
I was saying you didn't have togive a 15 minute e-learning module
on what does micro management mean.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I was like, I wouldreally struggle with that.
And then, but they're havinga real lived experience of it.
And, and I love the solution ofthe person who figured that out,
right, like, so we can't multitask.
That's awesome.
Do you have any other favoriteimprov or other games that
(15:23):
also encourage social learning?
There's, there's one that if you'veheard of improv games, you've probably
done this, but I, It's so foundation toeverything that I have to put it out.
Improv, the foundation of improv, isbuilt on this concept called "Yes, and".
Yes and means that we acceptthe reality that is presented in
front of us or on stage is calledan offer, and we build on it.
(15:45):
And so, on stage, it may look like, "Hey,you know, us two, we're in a cave and I'm
like, Oh my gosh, it's so dark in here.
And, the other person says,"yeah, oh my gosh, it is.
I'm glad I got the headlamps", youknow, so now we're acknowledging that
this is what the first person said.
So, we're listening, we're payingattention, and then we're building.
And so, this activity builds up to that.
So, the first time you go through theactivity, you, you say, all right,
(16:07):
we're going to plan a vacation.
You know, unlimited budget, you know,get all those constraints out of the way.
First person the goal is to get to anagreement as many agreements as possible.
So, your job is to pitch ideas,as many as ideas as you can.
Other person, your job is tojust say no to everything.
Let's just see how that works out.
And then, they go through.
It obviously doesn't work.
(16:28):
And then, we find out that theperson checks out and, and they,
after a while, they, you know,they, they're phoning it in.
All right, cool.
Pretty typical.
And then, we say, all right, let'stry yes, but, and then, we flip the
roles and have the other person go.
Then, the person who's listening hasto say yes to everything; and then say,
but, and say, why it's not going towork; and then, see how that works out.
It turns out it doesn't work any better.
(16:49):
And then, we go to the yesand approach where one person
gives us current of an idea.
The next person says, yes, they sayand they add on and go back and forth.
And then, we talk about the differencebetween the three different styles;
and, you know, how in the first timeit was pretty much just shutting
things down, ideas are going nowhere.
The next one is that they thoughtthey were being helpful by saying
yes, but we learned that anytimeyou say, but everything before
(17:11):
that is considered negated.
And then the other one, like wetalk about like, all right, cool.
You know, there's a lot ofenergy, everyone is contributing.
And then, I start to say, I get it.
Not all of these are feasible ideas.
That's not the pointwith a, Yes and mindset.
You're creating a space where everyonecan contribute, and then we can change
(17:31):
gears; and then, maybe then we getinto the more scrutinizing things, but
when we want everyone to contribute,we have to have a yes and mindset.
And so, through that activity, peoplestart to realize in real time, they're
experiencing, because again, even thoughthey know we're playing the game, they
still have those feelings when that personis saying no to everything that's right.
Like.
You're having that visceral response.
(17:51):
You're going to respond exactlyhow you would if we were at work.
And, every time you think you have a goodidea and your boss shuts it down, like..
And then, again, in the debrief,we, we discussed that like,
where do we see this show up?
And, you know, how is it not supportive?
And so, that's, that's atypical idea, typical activity.
And, one that doesn't get talked to,talked about a lot is an activity I
love to play with people in L and D.
(18:13):
It's a game called Monkey Wrench.
And, with that, you're tellinga true story, and you have a
partner, and the partner's job isto throw monkey wrenches at you.
So, verbal monkey wrenches,not real monkey wrenches.
So, as you're telling that story,they're gonna start to say random
objects, you know, stuff like that,and you have to incorporate that into
your, into your story as if it happened.
And then, keep the story going.
(18:34):
And so, what that's teaching you, not tobe a liar, what it's teaching you is how
to handle stress, because you had a plan.
And then, all of a sudden somethingout of the blue happens and you have to
process that, incorporate it, and move on.
And so, it's a great way of justdealing with the uncertainty, uh,
uncertainty of things that happen andkeeping your composure and moving on.
(18:58):
That's amazing.
I really, I want to, I alreadyjotted down like we should all as
a team do an in the lab episode,where we practice and try that.
yeah.
I'm laughing because I feellike I do that to you weekly.
I'm just like, Oh yeah.
And the client said
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it happens.
It's life.
But the cool thing is we played a game.
And, we're laughing through it.
And, and then I, sometimes Ieven asked, I said, This is no
(19:21):
different than what happens on yourday to day, except your mindset.
In this, you're coming from a playfulmindset, where you're seeing these as
opportunities for growth, and you're justtaking them, you're like, all right, cool.
And, you're dealing withthem in a positive way.
And then, you're moving on.
Same thing happens in a meeting, you know.
We don't have time to go into likesort of biases and stuff like that.
(19:42):
But a lot of times we have, FAB,which is, fundamental attribution
bias, uh, where we think that, sowhat's something that someone does
is a knock on their character.
When, if we were to do it, it'sa knock on the circumstance.
Like, for example, cutting someone off.
When someone cuts us off, we likethat jerk and blah, blah, blah.
When in reality, we haveno idea what was going on?
(20:03):
They may be a jerk.
There are jerks out there.
They also may be lost orthis, that, and the other.
But when we do it, we again look at thesituation and we don't judge ourselves.
So, why not again take the learningsfrom this activity and apply it to
real world when these things happen,because they're going to happen.
Take a breath.
(20:24):
Okay.
I hear you.
I see you.
And let's move on.
Yeah, I'm curious.
In addition to yes, and are thereother principles of improv that you see
translating really well into L and D?
There's a lot.
Yeah.
But, I'll give you a few.
The, one of the main things in the worldof improv and this is a mindset thing.
(20:44):
We, when we're doingimprov, we don't have props.
We don't have costumes.
We were just making things up.
And, one of the things that wastaught to me early on is that you
have everything you need right there.
And so, when I'm like in, you know,when I'm in a scene and I am like
(21:04):
collaborating with my scene partner,a lot of times I get my head like,
oh my God, what do I need to say?
But I have to remind myself,I have everything I need.
I have my scene partner.
We, anything we need, again, it's,it's make believe so we can make up
stuff, but it's, it's more of likea overarching thinking of like,
Hey, you have everything you need.
And so again, going back tolearning and development, I know
I've worked with people earlier intheir career and people further on.
(21:26):
And, a lot of times,you know, we have that.
comparison, right, comparisonis the thief of joy.
And, we think, oh, if I only had this,if I only had this; and it's true,
you know, if we had other things,maybe we could make things different.
But, if we just realize you haveeverything you need, you're good to go.
It really just helps us just take a step.
That's such a great reminder.
Yeah.
And, I want to touch on something youkind of brought up before, because in
(21:49):
season one of our podclass, like, weexplored the importance of psychological
safety for social learning and beyond.
So, I'm just curious, like howyou've seen improv and games
like you mentioned earlier, itkind of levels the playing field.
Are there other ways that it helpscreate psychological safety for teams?
So, there's this, and most activities dothis, but one that seems like a throwaway.
(22:10):
And I had been doing this activity fora good six years before I learned that
there was a deeper meaning behind it.
And, it's this activity, and it'sas an instructor, it's a great way
for us to learn our participantsnames and, and everyone is, you
know, new, so it's a great way foreveryone to learn everyone's names.
And so, what you invite peopleto do is do a movement and do
(22:32):
an alliteration with their name.
So, that again, you know, all thosethings put together, it makes it just
easier for people to memorize things.
So like, I might say "I amgoofy Gary"; and then everyone
acknowledges it and copies it,goofy Gary; and then we go around.
And so, again, repetition andhaving different sort of modalities,
it's easier to remember names.
But I, I talked to someone thatspecializes in improv for psychologists.
(22:55):
They said that is, is deeperthan just remembering names.
It's all about having someoneput part of themselves out there.
So again, being very vulnerable andwe're accepting that, not only are we
accepting it, but we're, we're seeing themand we're doing it right back to them.
And so, that creates quick belonging,because, again, you're being forced
(23:17):
to be vulnerable by like doing a weirdmovement; say, you know, some sort of
alliteration; and then to have, youknow, no, one's making fun of you,
not only is no one making fun of you,they're accepting it like, all right,
that's who you are; and then they'redoing it right back to you like boom.
Immediately, people just feellike they belong, they feel seen.
And, it is so interesting, becausegoing back to my teaching improv.
(23:41):
So, I got really into it performance wise.
I like, I naturally hadto go into teaching it.
So I, I teach at my local theater,and we do this level one, you
know, we do, we do the name game.
And, it becomes like, people callhim like, "Hey, look, it's early
Eric", this, that, and the other.
And, it just becomes this thing,how we introduce each other.
And, I didn't realize like,again, now it's just more of
(24:03):
creating this sense of belonging.
And so, that's, that is just one easything that again, that we do in improv
stuff, but think about in your trainings,how can you, that's why I believe in
connection over content, how can youdo something that one might force
folks to, you know, disclose something.
I love doing a game like True For Me,where you make some statements like,
(24:24):
eh, how many people morning people.
And, if it happened to be true for you,raise your hand and stuff like that.
It again, seems like a throwaway,but having people disclose personal
things about themselves createspsychological safety very quickly.
That is so fun and awesome.
And, I love how, yeah, there'sthat deeper level to it.
And, it's something easy.
Like you said, yeah, thatcan have this huge impact.
If people are listening and they'relike intrigued, but maybe nervous,
(24:46):
they might not have ever taken animprov class or, you know, they are
maybe hesitant to recommend playfulapproaches to training, even though
they see the value, like what adviceor words of encouragement do you have?
First thing is I hear you.
I see you.
It's not commonplace.
So, don't feel bad if you're just like,"eh, I don't know about this thing".
(25:06):
You're completely normal,completely natural.
And then, I invite peoplejust to see on a deeper level.
Realize that we're all playful beings.
And so, you might be looking at, as Imentioned, through a very narrow lens.
And, I like to say, you know, thinkabout a time when, so play is essentially
doing something for the sake of doingit without any sort of reward or
(25:28):
anything like that, that is enjoyable,and, especially when it involves other
people, like we get a chance to connect.
When was a time that you were aroundcolleagues, and you enjoyed being
there, and you were doing something.
And, and something other thanhappier and stuff like that.
I'm pretty sure there are, aretimes like, you know, oh yeah,
we had this walking meeting.
(25:49):
Um, or this one time, you know,it was after, you know, it was
after a long weekend, and then wetook a few moments for everyone to
check in and share what they did.
That's being playful, youknow, that is, again, doing
something for us to all connect.
So, it is possible to dothat on a smaller scale.
And so, that's the main thing.
I invite people to do things on asmaller scale and then slowly branch out.
As it pertains to improv, improvessentially is just connecting
(26:14):
with others, responding inthe moment in a positive way.
Take what you've seen, like onWhose Line Is It Anyway, and
just sort of set that aside.
That is a form of improv, but that'snot necessarily what we're doing here.
The fact that you're invitingpeople to respond on a prompt
and they don't have a scriptedanswer, that's, we're improvising.
And, if we can do that again on asmall scale, I'm pretty sure you've
(26:35):
done things that are consideredimprov, you just didn't realize that.
Yeah, it was just whatpopped into our head.
Our team is fully remoteand Nicole sent us.
What, they were like Mr.
Potato Head, but it was from May the 4th.
So, it was like Star Wars andwe all like built it together.
It was just a really silly,but meaningful interaction.
Yeah.
So it, yeah, it didn't take too longeither, but now I have that memory.
(26:57):
I did not expect thatto have any relevancy.
It's interesting, because I was thinkingof that too when Gary was talking.
I didn't expect it to have any relevancy.
I was just like, it's baby Yoda day.
Whatever.
We're going to have some fun.
But, actually, I was the last one to beable to put the potato head together.
It was a Mandalorian, Yamdalorian.
And, you know, Rocio was firstproject manager over here, figured
out how all the pieces fit andthey taught me how to do it.
(27:19):
And, I was like, Oh, this is such aninteresting commentary on our team.
Everybody kind of helped the next person.
It definitely highlighted our rolesin the team that we play every day.
100%.
Yeah, and I'm curious, are there anymemorable stories that you have, Gary,
for like an improv game that stoodout that you either participated in
or led in a professional development?
So, the one that I toldyou about the name game.
(27:40):
What, what I learned that I was justblown away and it just like, it was
one of those things, the moment Isaw it, like I connected the dots,
I was like, "Oh, it's so true".
And, I thought about all the times thatI've done it and how I was apprehensive
at first; and then I did it; and thenthe feeling that I got what people just,
sort of, like mirrored it back to me.
That was awesome.
Then, there was another time I was workingwith a large, sort of, insurance company.
(28:01):
And, I was working with thepeople that are in like PR and
it was their yearly retreat.
And so, they're normally at differentlocations all over, and this is their
one time a year to come together.
And, I was doing this activity called theAmazing Machine, and how it works is one
at a time, people get in and make a sillysound and movement, something that you
can repeat over and over again, and they,sort of, everyone's like, movements and
(28:25):
sounds, sort of, connect to each other.
And then, the, you have like 40 peopleall moving and doing this sound.
And then, the last person hasto look at the machine and name,
whatever this fictitious machineis that we all co-created.
It's like, Oh my gosh, it'sthe burrito folding machine.
And again, there's no wrong answers.
It's whatever they think it is.
It is.
And then, we celebrate andwe go over and over again.
So, that's the, that's the game.
It's very silly.
(28:46):
It's all about showing howwe can connect to each other.
How we, again, can think on ourfeet and, and things like that.
And, all about collaborationand co-creating.
And so, then in the debrief, youknow, just taking like, all right,
you know, what, you know, whatdo you think about that activity?
How does it connect to your day to day?
And this one gal, she raised herhand and she was very emotional and
she said, you know, it's challengingdoing the work that we do separate.
(29:11):
And, this is pre-pandemic, y'all.
This is like pre-pandemic.
They were just naturally dispersedteams just because they each were
at their each individual locations.
So, they have to do a lotof work by themselves.
And, that person said, "but doing thisactivity, it reminded me why I'm here.
I have to do my movement, so that, the,I can give the ability for the, the
(29:35):
doctors and the physicians to do theirs;so that the nurses can do theirs; so
that we all can come together and we canmake a difference in our patients lives".
I was like yeah, that is amazing.
And again, this is something thatthat person came up themselves.
And, it's even more meaningful, becausethey came up with it to themselves,
then if I were to said, all right,you know, what you should probably
(29:58):
get from this is this, this, and this.
You know, and as a facilitator, especiallyone that comes from an improv background,
we're always, our main thing is alwaysall about, we is greater than me.
So I, I, this belief thatthe knowledge is in the room.
So, I will reserve giving whatthey typically should see out of
it until after I heard from them,because you, I'm surprised so many
(30:21):
times of the responses that I get.
And then, a lot of times I'm like,I've never heard that before.
And, I totally see it.
And, I'm going to steal that,and I'm going to write that down.
And so, yeah, that, thoseare two that comes to mind.
That's awesome.
And I love that, you know, in thedebrief, like that becomes just
as important of a portion of thetraining as the actual activity.
Is there anything I didn't askthat you think is important for
(30:42):
people to know about this topic?
Man, very thorough.
You asked like, yeah, no kidding.
Like you asked everything.
And, the only thing I can say is, there,there, like, we talked about people being
hesitant, but it's all about the action.
That's where, that's where it comes from.
So, it's not a question.
It's just more of an invite to, youknow, whoever may be receiving this,
(31:05):
however you're receiving this, is mychallenge to you is, what is one thing
that you could do that you can explore?
And, I will bring in another improvmindset is embracing mistakes.
And, in the world of improvisation,we make mistakes all the time,
but we have this belief thatthere's no such things as mistakes.
Mistakes are gifts.
So, if you happen to make a mistake,how can you celebrate yourself?
(31:28):
And, I like to say, we havea thing called a failure bow.
So, if you make a mistake, we go ta-daas a way to just reinforce that, "hey, I
am just learning and I'm getting better".
So, that is my invite is what can you do?
What is something that you can dojust to put this out into the world?
I love that so much.
And, I need to hear that every day.
And, I love the idea of a failure bow.
Well, if people would like to learn moreabout your work, where can they find you?
(31:51):
You can go to my website,BreakthroughPlay.com, where you can,
you know, get resources, you know, checkout all the stuff that I've been up to.
And, I'm on LinkedIn.
You can just look me up, Gary Ware.
I love chatting about this stuff, so feelfree to, to reach out, send a message.
I welcome the conversation.
Well, thank you so much on behalf of thewhole Your Instructional Designer team.
Thank you for being partof our podcast today.
(32:12):
Yay!
Thank
you for having me.
Such a delight.
A big Yes, and to everything Gary shared,these are the nuggets of wisdom we're
taking away from this conversation.
Separating work and playis a missed opportunity.
You can wrap lessons in wackygames the same way veggies
get hidden in tasty meals.
Play can help build trust,create psychological safety, and
(32:33):
encourage people to take risks andgo outside their comfort zones.
Everyone looks uncool doingimprov activities in games,
which levels the playing field.
An insight from the world of improvthat carries over to work and
training is, "We is greater than me".
Another insight from improv, youalready have everything you need.
Play is a spectrum that includespurposeful play, which can
(32:55):
support specific outcomes.
Debrief after playing games so peoplecan reflect on valuable takeaways.
Ask, how does this connectto your day to day?
We hope you're thinkingwhat we're thinking.
Let the games begin.
In fact, now it's your turn.
For your experiment, you'll answerGary's challenge to explore one
element from this episode andcelebrate mistakes along the way.
(33:17):
You can find the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the Social
Learning Lab community on LinkedIn.
In the community, you can also shareyour stories, get feedback and insights
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
Also, this week we're hosting a freelive masterclass called Three Ways to
Level Up from ID to L& D Strategist.
Check out the link in the shownotes to find a day and time
(33:39):
that works with your schedule.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleaselike, subscribe, or share so we can
continue to build a supportive groupof social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
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