July 1, 2024 • 42 mins
There's a leadership skills gap that is plaguing organizations right now, but you, labmate, can close the gap. Discover how social learning fosters collaboration, peer mentoring, and real-world problem-solving, all crucial for effective leadership. We'll explore what makes a great leader and how leveraging social learning techniques can enhance these qualities. Hear practical examples and strategies for implementing social learning in your organization, ensuring your leaders are equipped with the skills needed for success. Join us and unlock the potential of social learning to cultivate exceptional leadership.
- Introduction - 00:00
- What Makes a Great Leader? - 02:15
- The Role of Social Learning in Leadership - 10:30
- Practical Examples and Case Studies - 18:45
- Implementing Social Learning in Organizations - 25:00
- Q&A Session - 35:10
- Conclusion and Takeaways - 45:00
Resources
Share your experiences and connect with peers in🧪The Social Learning Lab LinkedIn community.
Practice your new knowledge with an experiment. Download the Experiment Brief here.
Work with us to implement effective, scalable social learning in your organization. Schedule a Discovery Session here.
Mentioned In This Episode
Deloitte Study:
HBR Frontline Workers Survey:
Your Hosts
Rocio Granela, Jr. Project Manager | LinkedIn
Katie Hynes, Instructional Designer | LinkedIn
Nicole Papaioannou Lugara, Founder & Learning Strategist | LinkedIn
Diego Diaz, Jr. Digital Designer | LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
According to a comprehensive studyby Deloitte, 86 percent of business
leaders believe that developing newleaders is an urgent or important
need, and yet only 13 percent ofcompanies rate themselves as excellent
at developing leaders at all levels.
Similarly, a study by DDI, the conferenceboard, and EY, involving 25,812 leaders
(00:25):
found that only 14 percent of CEOsand HR executives believe they have
a strong leadership bench;, while64 percent of leaders say they feel
unprepared for their leadership roles.
So, friends, are you ready?
What are we doing when it comesto leadership skill development?
That is what today's episode is all about.
(00:45):
Studies show as we can see thatleadership skills are a massive gap
for many organizations, especiallyas boomers leave the workforce.
So, in this episode, we're going toreveal where leaders triumph, where they
fail, and how to close the leadershipskills gap with social learning, because
leadership is a social skill after all.
(01:06):
So, lab mates, join us for this episodeof the Social Learning Lab, a pod class
about social learning at work, andlet's lead our organizations forward.
Okay, labmates, we are going to diveright into the topic of cultivating
leadership with social learning, becausethe ripple down effect of leadership
is really important to an organization.
(01:29):
Not to say that, you know, theorganization has to beat up town.
Not to say that people from other areasof the business are not critical also
to building culture and skills andall the wonderful things companies do.
But, you know, it is reallyhard for a company to succeed
if leadership is not effective.
So, I wanted to ask the three of you.
So I, Rocio, Diego, Katie,you're all with me today.
(01:52):
Let's start with the good stuff,like, what leader in your life
or maybe not in your immediatecircle do you really admire most?
And, what's one skill that theyhave that you would love to emulate?
I can go first.
Okay.
Yeah, go for it.
I'm not really out there in the world.
So, I'm going to pick two people in mylife that I think are great leaders.
(02:12):
The first one is my dad.
He's, aside from being a leader and otherstuff, he owns a company and I really
admire the way that he runs people and theway that he treats people in the company.
But most of all, I admire froma very young age that my father
is not afraid of failure.
So, it's very much just going for itand trying it out; and the, he always
(02:35):
says like, the worst thing that couldhappen is it doesn't work; and then,
you know, you move on to something else.
So, that's the first one.
I think that when you're a leader,you can't, you shouldn't at least
be afraid of things failing ortrying things out, because you
think that they're going to fail.
And then, my secondone, it's, Nicole, which
Stop that.
(02:55):
She's right here with us.
But, you know, I think that's somethingthat always sticks with me is that,
I am a very pessimistic person,I would say; and my cup is always
half empty for most of the times.
And, sometimes, you know, we get likelast minute things that happens in every
project and it always happens last minuteon like the last review cycle; and my
(03:16):
mind is like, no, I planned everything.
Everything was going so perfect, butshe is always able to talk me down and
be like, "okay, one step at a time.
Let's work with what we can work withand what we have control of right now".
And for me, that's something that I lackthat I admire in Nicole to be able to
(03:37):
view things like that, in the face of notdisaster, but in the face of when things
don't go our way to be able to step backand say, "hey like, let's just work on
what we have control or we can work onand everything else will fall into place".
So
That's very kind of you.
(04:00):
I think you all do that for me too though.
Like it's a, you know, it's very hardto see when you are personally panicked.
And so, you know, when yousay I do that for you, but you
both, you all do it for me too.
On that note, anyone else want to go?
Cause I'm just goingto sit here and blush.
Yeah, I think just adding to that.
I wrote down leaders who aren'tafraid to like, not know the answer.
(04:24):
So, I've worked with a lot of peoplelike this that I really admire,
including people on this team.
So yeah, I'm just adding on that.
But, you know, I think it shows likeintellectual humility and openness and
curiosity and flexibility and all of thosethings like, and so that's been like,
starting back when I first was teaching,I think a really hard and scary thing
(04:46):
for me was to learn to say, I don't know,like when you're in the front of the room.
And I, I really admired that andother teachers who like showed
me how to be a good teacher.
And so, yeah, just kind of extrapolatingfrom there with leadership.
I really think the people thatI see shining are those who have
the confidence, and the abilityto kind of say, I don't know.
And, it's not always somebody in, youknow, on the hierarchy, like, you know,
(05:08):
up, up there the chart, like, it'slike people all over the company who
have a responsibility, I think, too.
And so, a lot of, a lot of cool leadershipgoing on all over the place in that way.
So, yeah.
I guess it's my turn.
I'd say that for me, I reallyadmire my mom as a leader.
Being a school teacher and everything,I've kind of gotten to see how
(05:31):
she runs her teams and everything.
Her being in the team leader roles andher moving around, being able to adjust.
I think that's something that I admiremost, but I think what really stands
out is that it takes a good leaderwho has compassion for the ones that
they work for and is willing to putthemselves in their shoes and take a
step back and examine things from theground up and work with those people to
(05:53):
help them in areas that they struggle.
I think a lot of leaders attimes see themselves at power
and put themselves on a pedestal.
And, I think the great leaders areones that are able to bring everyone
to the pedestal with them and puteverybody on the same playing field.
And, it's very inspirational tosee somebody who is able to, you
know, work with kids, helpingthem achieve greater success.
(06:15):
I think that's something that I admiremost from a leader is somebody who's
willing to help outside people in theirexpertise and help others achieve where
they are wanting to go with their goals.
Nobody was like, I really admireleaders who just make tons of money.
I really admire leaders who will cuteveryone down just to get what they want.
And, yeah, like it's funny, not, you know,I'm, overemphasizing some things here,
(06:37):
but if you went into a different space,I mean, leaders like Elon Musk come up
a lot, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, you know,kind of a certain space, especially when
you get into like the startup world.
And so, it's really interesting tohear that none of that came up for us.
It doesn't say anything good or bad.
It's just an interesting thingthat like, I guess it fits with
(06:57):
what we've built here, right?
Like, we clearly are looking forexperimentation, willingness to
put yourself out there, a bit ofvulnerability, a bit of connection
making, right, relationship building.
So, that's what I'm hearing youall say; and it's definitely a very
different type of leader than maybe theones we find most often in the news.
(07:17):
Yeah, I think that being known doesn'tnecessarily make you a good leader.
And, we know that, I mean, thesepeople are leaders in their field
and they make a lot of money, butare they the best people and the
best employers and the best leaders?
And, you know, are theydoing for the people in their
company, looking out for them?
(07:39):
They're not.
We know that, and, you know, wealready named some names that we
can name again that, not the bestleaders when it comes to dealing
with their people and the people intheir companies, so, in my opinion.
So, you know, I think that leadershiptakes different roles, you know, dictators
are considered leaders in their nations.
Are they the best leaders?
Uh, not necessarily.
(07:59):
So, I think that how you get to thatposition of leadership is important,
and the things you did along theway to gain that is important.
This is why we're mentioning thingsthat, you know, are positives in a
journey to leadership, I would say.
And, I also think that leadershiptakes many different forms I know
when I was a Freshman my coach mademe read The Captain's Class and
(08:22):
it talked about like leadership insports and every leader is different.
I think, you know, certain leaders havecertain qualities that are fitting for
what role they're in and I think youhave to look at what industry you're in
and what kind of leadership you need foryour either your enterprise your agency
your company, because some companies mayrequire somebody who's very assertive
very on point very dictatorship whereothers are going to be more somebody who's
(08:44):
willing to be listening and vulnerable;and I think that's kind of dependent
on the type of industry you're in.
But I also feel that leaders also haveto have a point of being able to have
reason behind why they act a certain way.
And, I think that sometimes gets lostin translation with being in that power.
So, I could see where Rocio is sayingthat, you know, we have leaders
(09:06):
that are very much dictatorship,but they have to have an ability to
show that this is why I'm doing it.
It has to have ajustifiable reason in that.
That's a great point.
It's and you said sports and soI'm like, well, there's like the
Bill Belichick of the world, likepeople love him, even though they
hate him at the same time, right?
And so, it's a great pointthat leadership is contextual.
(09:27):
Maybe that brings me to my nextpoint, which is just in your own
experience, before we get into somemore like the tactical stuff about
what you can do to make sure youdon't fall into the traps, what are
some of the traps or some of the waysyou've seen leaders fail in your life?
I think for me, there's a lotof leaders who, they use their
voice when it's not necessary.
(09:48):
And, I say this because I've had someexperiences where I've run into a lot
of leaders, where they say a lot offluff and when they actually get to
the point that they need to get across,it doesn't come out the correct way.
And so, I think it's being a leader whoknows when to speak at the right time.
And, I think that's something thatis, kind of, you have to learn
through experience, because I'velearned from being on teams and stuff.
(10:09):
You can say a lot of stuff.
You can be this team captain andtalk a lot, but if you're not really
getting to the point of what youneed your team to do, you're not
going to be an effective leader.
And, I think that's something thata lot of leaders fail is that they
want to be talking all the time.
And, I think that talking andbeing assertive is the best way to
go about it, but I think honestlyknowing when to speak at the right
time is what makes a good leader.
(10:30):
It reminds me of something Dan Pinksaid at the ATD conference, which was
essentially like, if you are talkingover your people, that's a problem
because what you really want to do is letthem say it and then be like, exactly,
like you don't need to own the idea.
And I'll, it is a hard thing to do asa leader and just as a human, right?
Not to take ownershipfor those good ideas.
(10:52):
So, exactly, Diego.
I, I hear that one.
Yeah, for sure.
What about Rocio, Katie, got anything?
Just going to bring it back.
I think Diego mentioned it whenhe was talking about his mom
and we mentioned a little bit.
Just clinging to formal authority whereyou're just in a position of authority and
everybody has to say what you say, like,what you do, what you say, and that's it.
(11:16):
And, they have to do it becauseyou're the boss; and, if you don't do
it, then you're gone, which we haveseen happen a lot with the work from
home and going back into the office.
And like, if we're not coming backinto the office and you know, there's
the door and you can go, and, youknow, I just, I don't think asserting
authority in that way works and I thinkit usually, it's just, I don't know,
(11:38):
it gives up to a environment wherepeople don't want to be around you.
People don't want to,you know, what is it you?
I don't even know how to explain it.
I don't even know what I'm trying to say.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that,you know, authority isn't always like that
authoritarian, you know, way of leading isnot conducive of an environment that, you
(12:00):
know, people feel welcomed or they wantto be there and they want to listen to you
and they want to do what you tell them.
And then, another one is resistanceto change, right, like we've been
doing this like this for forever.
So, we're going to keep doing itlike this because it works; and then,
you know, the world keeps movingand then it's too hard to catch up.
So, I would say thatthat's one of them too.
(12:24):
Yeah, and I'll just add thequality I admire, one of the
qualities I admire most that I hadsaid was, intellectual humility.
So, sort of, the flip side of that orthe trap would be, you know, kind of
doubling down and like really not beingopen to hearing other perspectives
or ideas that could probably happenfor so many different reasons that
I want to feel compassionate about.
I don't know.
I don't know.
This is a hypothetical, but, youknow, it's like, just trying to
(12:47):
be like hearing everybody andlike kind of like Rocio said, like
being flexible and open to change.
Yeah.
I think those are allreally interesting ones.
Uh huh, Rocio?
Sorry, Nicole.
I was just going to saylike, authority is not bad.
If you're a leader, you haveauthority over your department or
the people that you're overseeing.
And, at the end of the day, if youneed to make a decision, you need
(13:08):
to make a decision, but the decisionis not made because I told you so,
or because I say so, or becausethat's the way I want it to get done.
Like, there has to be, likeDiego said, there has to be
reasoning behind that decision.
That's not just whatever it is, becauseyou want to do it that way and that's it.
You know, like, I don'tthink authority is bad.
Leaders have authority, but it's justhow you use it and how you implement
that authority over the people thatyou're overseeing, I would say.
(13:32):
I think it's being able to be human iswhat I think a lot of leadership needs.
I think that most times when you putyourself above, it's hard to bring
yourself down to that human level andbe like these are human experiences
and I think you know a good leader issomeone who's able to be vulnerable
with their employees; and I thinkit ties into everything is like you
have to show that you're still human.
(13:53):
You're going to make mistakes.
You're gonna, but how as a leader, areyou going to overcome those mistakes?
How are you going to show yourteam that you're willing to push
through those struggles, persevere?
And, I think that's really what itcomes down to is showing that you're
still human, but able to stillcontinue and achieve success is what's
going to make you stand out fromthe rest of the leaders out there.
(14:14):
We like the term, generous authority.
I feel like we just go back to PriyaParker's work all the time, but
that's kind of what it reminded mewhen you're all talking about it.
So I tried to pull from the articlewe did with the nine leaders and then
some of our own work with clients.
Just, you know, what are thechallenges we've been hearing?
And, if you hear one that I'm notlistening here, please chime in.
(14:36):
But leadership is, when you talk aboutin a formalized role, it is a tough role.
I mean, we're seeing CEOs burnout quicker than ever before.
And, I know a lot of us are like, youknow, tiny violin, we don't feel so bad
for the guy earning a billion bucks,but you know, CEO is not always that
person; and anyway, that's a very longwinded way of saying, so the challenges,
we talked about the failures, butwe are seeing the challenges, right.
There's there's a lot of foresightand strategic visioning that
(14:59):
needs to happen as a leader.
You have to be able to predict,you know, what's coming next and
plan for it before it gets there.
Agility is a really tough one, right,how do you lead your team and being
agile and adaptable; and then, balancingthat with like not losing the stability.
So, continuous improvement, butalso like you need something
to hold on to, so people feellike they're part of something.
(15:21):
You've got to serve multiple key players,right, your stakeholders in the formal
sense of the term; you might be talkingabout your employees; you might be talking
about other executive leadership; clients.
There's so many people that youtalk to and serve potentially
as a leader, depending on whereyou're playing in an organization.
And then, talent.
When we're talking about, you know,enterprise and things like that,
(15:42):
talent's a really big challenge.
Right now, everyone's like, Oh, you'vegot to attract the right people.
We've got to keep the right people.
And then, skills; and that's obviouslylike our bread and butter over here.
But like, does everyone have the rightskills while everything is changing and we
have to serve all these different needs?
We've got the AI panicthat's happening right now.
Do we, are we going to need these people?
Do I need to fix my skills?
(16:03):
Do I understand enough to makedecisions about AI for my team?
Does anything else ring a bell?
Because I mean, I feel like thatwas a really hefty list already.
Well, I'm gonna work with that then.
I feel like that was areally big list already.
And so, between just trying to be humanor maybe you don't care about being human
That's not your leadership way of doingthings like your you think your job is
(16:25):
just to make decisions, but either waythere there are some clear skills, right.
So, we just talked about some of them.
There are some clear skills that youneed if you want to be a really strong
leader, whether that is formallyas, you know, executive leadership
management that sort of thing orjust someone who is able to rally and
influence people to get something done.
And so, why we thinksocial learning, right?
(16:48):
This is kind of the heart of this episode.
It took us a while to get to but likewhy we think social learning is a
great tool for closing that leadershipskills gap is because leadership
is inherently a social activity.
And, to be a good leader, you needto be able to predict how people are
going to react; and then to be able torespond appropriately to those reactions
(17:10):
and to communicate your vision; thenstrategize and motivate people to get the
things done you need them to get done.
So, whether you, you know, want tosoften the blow or whether you are
going to be that dictator, like eitherway, you need to be able to predict
what people are going to do and howthey're going to respond and then make
sure you're responding appropriately.
So, that's very social, right.
Learning to just sense how peoplewill be is, is pretty social.
(17:32):
Then, there's the wholelearning to build relationships.
We talked about that already.
You need to learn andgive and receive feedback.
I mean, that's a huge job as a leaderof hearing what you're not doing
well, hearing what you are doing well,knowing what to take, what to leave.
And then, we've been talking about socialinfluence so much on these episodes that
that, that has become another piece.
So, I think recognizing as a leaderwhen social influence is impacting you.
(17:57):
Like, you know, maybe everyone on theteam wants X; and then, sometimes that
is okay and you can follow the socialinfluence, right, and, and kind of commit
to the trend; and sometimes you have toknow whether you should go against the,
the social influence, the, the trendor whatever it is, the social pressure.
And so, all of those thingsare very social skills.
(18:18):
There are things that in my verystrong opinion, and I see you nodding,
so I'm thinking you're agreeing.
They can't just be learned from like ane-learning or even just someone giving
you like the tips, you know, if, if, the,the succession planning is just the leader
before you telling you a bunch of like,okay, this is what happens when you do X.
It just doesn't work.
You, you really do need to exercise thatsocial interaction to be able to get it.
(18:44):
Actually, in one of the HBR GlobalLeadership Development Reports from 2023,
they said that "71 percent of employeeswould agree that to learn something new
or change their thinking, they actuallyneed to discuss it with someone first".
And, I was just thinking, well,leadership's a pretty big one in there.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Is there anything that made youthink about or anything you feel
(19:07):
like within leadership that issocial that I did not mention yet?
Well, I read an article from HBR too andit's called What Makes a Great Leader.
And, I found it interesting, becausea lot of the things that they talk
about, about what makes a great leaderdeals with it being social, like
(19:28):
inherently social, like there's no wayof getting out of that social aspect
that comes with being in leadership.
And, it mentions that leadersshould excel in three roles, right?
One of them is the architect, whichis the people that the leaders that
create culture and capabilitiesthat empower everyone to innovate.
(19:50):
So, it deals with creating thatspace for people to innovate.
And then, they should be a bridger,right, meaning that they need to
be able to access talent and toolsbeyond their immediate organization,
so they should always be out there,like bridging those gaps in order
to keep that innovation going.
(20:11):
And then, the third one is,they should be catalysts.
So, these leaders should, you know,encourage and accelerate cross functional
collaborations, between ecosystems,you know, so they call it the ABCs.
So, Architect, the Bridger and theCatalyst; and I thought that was
pretty interesting because in everyrole, there is a social aspect to it.
(20:35):
It's just, they're saying that this arethe three things that leaders should be if
they want to, you know, good leadership.
Interesting.
And, that we should move away fromthat formal authority of like,
I'm the boss and this is why we'redoing things, because I said so.
So, you know.
That's my first time hearingof those three roles.
(20:56):
And I'm going to goread that whole article.
It sounds super interesting.
Yeah, like, I mean, the end goal is tofoster collaboration, experimentation,
learning, personal transformation of youremployees, like all of that, you know,
so I thought that was really interesting.
Soo many people don't get supportas they transition into formalized
(21:18):
leadership positions to do any of that.
I don't know.
Here's what I did and it'sbeen working this whole time.
So, you do it the same way.
And, I think that once again, and I alwayssay this, like we live in this, like such
individualistic society that everybody'sjust like, I'm going to be here.
(21:39):
I'm going to be here forthis amount of years.
I'm going to try to do as much as I can,so people know me, people know my name,
I'm building my resume; and then, fiveyears down the road, two years down the
road, you're out; and then, the nextone comes in and it's the same thing.
And, when that happens, nothingreally, you know, it's all about
what you can accomplish so thatpeople see you in that role.
(22:00):
Well, and I think going on to that too.
It's reflective of what your workenvironment's going to look like.
If you have a leader that is likethat, that's how your employees are
going to react and how they're goingto be trained to act in the workplace.
Like they see their leaderthat way you set the standard.
Social learning.
So, if you want, exactly, so if youwant them to meet the standard that
you want to be at, then they'regoing to meet that based on how
(22:23):
you, you know, give yourself off.
So, if you want them to be helpful, youmight as well be helpful in that aspect.
So, I think kind of going back to lastseason, when we talked to Tonya, she said
that a lot of the training programs thatare being built are failing, because it
comes down to the leadership, is thatthe leaders have said it in the beginning
that, oh, this isn't going to work.
(22:44):
When you go and tell your employees thatit's just filler it's just that, they're
gonna react the same way you tell them.
So, I think as a leadership youalso have to think about how you're
being, how you're conveying yourmessages to everybody and like you
want to again set that standard forhow you want your employees to work.
If you want to be that want themto be there long term, you have
(23:04):
to be setting goals to show thatyou're gonna be there long term.
If they see that you're gonna be out thedoor in five years, they're not going
to stay very long, because they're like,well, there's no reason to if I'm going
to have a new leader in the next fiveyears, in the next two, three years.
So, I think that's also important.
Yeah, and it just it fits into everything.
You know, I, last semester, I took aclass on business process management.
(23:27):
I'm graduating at the beginning of August.
So, yay.
And, you know, I found it interesting andit touches on this point of like, people
are just there to move on, where theprofessor was like, you know, business
process management process mapping.
That's all great, but most of the timeit doesn't work, because these leaders
coming in, they put a process in placeto be looked at by the authorities
(23:52):
above and to be like, Oh, wow.
And then, they build this thing; andthen, they leave and no one, there's no
follow up, there is no, like the processof like, you know, process management
requires you to like, put somethingout there, review it, see if it works.
If it doesn't work, changing the partsthat don't work, all of that, that
doesn't happen, because now this personthat initiated this process is out the
(24:14):
door and now it's just another processthat people have to follow and they
don't know what they have to follow it.
And, it stays in the company.
No one goes back.
No one's reviews it.
No one's in charge.
There's nothing there.
And, you have all these companies, youhave all these big name companies with
all these processes; and so much redtape to get something done because of
that constant leadership change, youknow, so I was, I was just like, yeah,
(24:38):
this class, I learned a lot, but he waslike, yeah, most of the time it doesn't
like this process management stuff.
It's just theoretically it should work,
We have never changed a process, Rocio.
Ours are so perfectly mapped.
Yeah, for sure.
At least our podcast processgoes pretty smoothly.
You
know, that
(24:59):
There is, so I, I'm gonna bring itall together just by saying, there is
social need in every single facet ofleadership like that's what I'm hearing,
even in these new examples, which is,you know, you if you have a process
you have to communicate it; you haveto share it; but, at the end of the
day, it needs to be about more thanwell how can I make a name for myself.
(25:21):
And, that's maybe the gap that wehaven't closed aside from a whole
bunch of other skills like strategicleadership consulting all that stuff,
but like that's a gap we have to closeas we think about how we bring in new
leaders or people who are developed.
Everyone's a developing leader, right?
Nobody is ever just like donebest leader in the world,
even if they're a top leader.
And so like, what doesthat look like in practice?
(25:43):
And, if you've been listening thisfar, like here's, here's what I
would recommend and team, pleasefeel free to add to this list.
But these are some things we'veseen work really well by and large
expectation setting, and thatcan be derived from feedback.
So, if you're going out to your teamand saying, what kind of leadership,
what kind of support do I need?
What have I seen workwell for this company?
What do I hope willhappen for this company?
(26:04):
And, you can use that in additionto regular succession planning, you
know, what what does, the what dothe people currently in the role or
the people above that think a leaderin this position needs to succeed?
When you combine those, you can get areally good plan for expectations but
so often like expectations are reallyjust set up as like business metrics,
you know, like your team has to make 500million in sales this year or whatever.
(26:30):
That's not really tellingthem how to be a leader.
So, I think really settingup those conversations about
well, what does it mean to leadsuccessfully in our organization?
Is a really important onethat often gets overlooked.
The other ones I would saymentoring programs is a big one.
So, whether that's one on one or smallgroups, knowing you have someone you can
go to; because when you're a leader is avery, it can be very lonely; especially
(26:53):
if you're like a new manager promotedfrom being an individual contributor, it's
really difficult to now be in charge ofthe people who are still your equals as
humans, but maybe on the org chart or not.
And so, I, like, I know even personallywhen I first got promoted and I was
overseeing my department, I was like,well, I don't, I don't know how I
can really have authority over thesepeople who I just was working alongside
(27:16):
and doing that exact same job as.
And, it was a, a really strange thing.
And, I was almost afraid to like, goout to lunch with them and stuff at a
certain point, cause I was like, well,what if I have to give them bad feedback
or what if I have to let someone go?
And, proof that didn't work.
Anyway, that's very off, off chartway, but you want to be able to
talk to someone about those things.
And so, mentorships are really important.
And, of course, preparing those mentorsto be good mentors is part of that.
(27:37):
Then, executive coachingand leadership hotlines.
Again, that's like thephone a friend, right?
Who's going to be your leader to go to,even if it's not an internal mentor.
Is there a coach or someone whoreally knows leadership that you
can set this person up to talk with?
And, executive coaching is great.
We have a bunch of people we know.
I'll give a shout out to Lisa Spinelli.
She's really great at theexecutive coaching stuff.
(27:59):
As you move people into thesehigher leadership positions-
Director, VP- preparing themperhaps to take on the C suite jobs.
Executive coaching is incrediblyvaluable, because people can set their
targets and their goals, and theyhave someone to bounce their very
specific ideas off, give feedback,and then plan for the next stage.
Shadowing and reflection.
I mean, you were talking about it, Diego.
(28:21):
You know, what you see your leadersdo is what will get emulated.
And so, are people in yourorganization having an
opportunity to shadow leadership?
To maybe walk through their, I liketo call it like the director's cut?
So, them talking over why they'redoing the things they're doing and
how they're making the decisions theyare; and then, taking time to reflect
themselves and integrate what they'vejust seen with their own behaviors
(28:43):
and what they want to keep and change.
We've seen cohorts be incrediblyeffective for leadership.
So, taking groups of leaders, whetherthey're all in the same organization or
different organizations, and putting themthrough several weeks or even several
months together; and either you can dothis formally, right, break, breaking them
out, maybe to do, to create a project,or maybe they're working, let's say, the
(29:08):
first few weeks on their philosophy ofleadership, and then the next few weeks
is like, they're personal leadershipguide; and then, they work after that
to do like their communication, right.
Every week can be something differentor every month can be a different theme.
That really gives people an opportunityto integrate what they are learning
as leaders and seeing their realuse cases and then bringing it
(29:29):
back to a trusted group of peers.
I cannot under sell how or Icannot over sell, I should say, how
important cohorts are to leaders.
And if you have the ability to havea number of leaders within your
organization in a cohort at the sametime, you will see massive results.
Not everybody has a big enough team todo that, but if you can highly recommend.
And then, the kind of in thesame vein is like masterminds.
(29:51):
And so, it's the big thing withintrapreneurs, but it works really
great with leaders too, at all levels.
And again, leader doesn'thave to mean C suite.
It can mean like, your new individualcontributor, your new intern who
just wants to be someone influential.
So, you can put people in mastermindsand either give them a topic to discuss
every week or just kind of keep that forumopen, so that they can come together and
(30:12):
work through challenges and strugglesand talk about their wins as peers.
That was a really big list.
So, just i'm gonna like check them offreally quick, but it was expectation
setting; mentoring; executive coachingand leadership hotlines; shadowing;
reflecting; cohorts; and then masterminds.
Did I miss anything onthat extensive list?
Cause now I already have like three inmind that I'm already like, yes, I did.
(30:35):
But I mean, those are just a few sociallearning ones that I came up with to help
leaderships close the leadership gap.
Well, anything that I missed team?
I mean, I think, I think those are great.
I just, I say just more of it, right?
Like more of it, cause I think insome places you get it, but like,
So many, you don't.
(30:55):
The lack of leadership and managementtraining that like people just like
you said, like what happened to youthat go into like this roles and
they don't know what they're doing.
They don't know who to go to.
They don't have someoneto walk them through it.
The processes are not there,because someone looked at the
processes like 10 years ago andthen it hasn't changed anything.
So like, technology inthe process is outdated.
Like all this stuff is not there anymore.
(31:16):
Now, we have all this new stuff.
Who do I go to if I need, you know,something like who's going to help
me if, if I don't know what to do?
Like, even just like setting goals.
Like, if you're moving from a place whereyou weren't setting those type of goals
and now you're in this leadership positionand you have to set cross functional goals
and like all this other type of goals,like, how do you even do that, right?
Like, that's not somethingyou go to school for.
(31:37):
That's not a certificate.
That's not formal education.
So like, what kind of trainings areyou putting in place to make sure
that your leaders are successful?
Just like you do for your, you know, therest of your employees; especially like,
especially leaders that deal with people,like first-line managers, you know, like,
because you go from being like an employeeto like being that first line manager.
(32:00):
And now, you have to deal with people.
Now, you have to manage people, which isnot the same as being, you know, a sisu,
you know, leader, like, that's completelydifferent aspects of leadership.
So, something to think about.
So, we want to see more of it or all ofit, like you could do all of those things.
I think that would bea magic place to work.
(32:20):
too, like
So the three of you, whether you wouldlike to say you are not, but I think you
would agree, you're also all leaders.
And, I just curious, like for yourselves,what would you wish would be your next
step in your own leadership development?
I didn't send you thatquestion in advance.
So, I'm just throwing you a, acurve ball there, but I would
(32:42):
love to leave off on that.
Like, I can think of if I can lead it off,if it makes it easier, but I would love
to know, you know, what would you love tocontinue developing yourselves as leaders?
I can say for me it's probably somewherebetween presence or like; I already have
a business coach that's probably not that,but I feel like the thing I love about the
leaders I really admire is their presence.
(33:03):
Like not that they take themselvesseriously, but they have some
gravitas to them, even whenthey're really nice people.
And, I am a little, youknow, wishy-washy, friendly.
So, that would be like an area for me thatthat's something I would love to do next;
and maybe that might be a formal courseor that might be coaching of some kind.
Rocio's like, I've just been inleadership boot camp forever.
(33:25):
So, I asked her this.
No, but really, what would you love next?
Are you asking me directly?
Yeah, I'm putting you on thespot because I know I can.
It's usually most willing.
Yeah.
I would say and I go back to this.
I think that for me, you know, I,I've been in a lot of my jobs have
been some kind of leadership position.
(33:47):
I would say, like, as a teacher,obviously, like, let's say, you
know, pretty big leadership position.
Just being a teacher.
You don't have to be the schoolprincipal or anything like that.
Like you, you are whatthe students look up to.
And then, I, you know,I was an office manager.
And then, now, I'm a project manager.
I would love to learn more the peopleaspect, like I was saying, the people
(34:07):
aspect of leadership and that fine lineand that great line that you were talking
about, Nicole, from that role that youwent from being the employee to being the
leader on how you handle those things.
It happened in the school too, right,like you're a teacher and then you
move on to like another role that'slike you're overseeing teachers
and that was a little awkward.
(34:28):
It does have some awkwardness.
Yeah, for sure.
Like, what is that fine line of being?
Because I don't think there's a separate,there shouldn't be a separation, right?
Like I'm your leader and you'remy employee and like, this is
the line that we can't, likehow to set boundaries, right.
Setting boundaries is a good one.
Yeah.
know, I would say.
So, would you in your magical worldwhere you get whatever you want?
(34:49):
Are you going toconferences to learn that?
Are you doing coaching?
Are you getting mentored?
Are you sitting through acohort with other leaders?
What would you love?
I think coaching probably.
I would say an observation and I don'tthink it's something, I mean, you
could probably sit there and someone,that's what I did in my program, right?
Like, my master's is in management.
It's not, it's like, you know, businessmanagement, not business administration.
(35:12):
So, it's like the peopleaspect of business.
And, everything is theory, but the actualpractice of it, like, how do you, you
know, it's like when I was in teachertraining, right, and they tell you, you
know, how to deal with students, but like,if the student is not listening to me
and they're like throwing chairs around,like, what am I supposed to do, right?
Like what, you know what I mean?
(35:34):
Like in theory, it's all great.
Like talk to them, calm them down.
You're nice, blah, blah, blah.
But then, what if none ofthose things work, right?
Like, so I think that observation,coaching, you know, probably some kind of
like back and forth scenario type stuff.
I think that that's important whenyou're trying to learn, because
(35:54):
it deals with people's behavior.
That's hard to, do.
Yes.
Just a period.
Diego, Katie, do eitherof you want to share?
I, I only put Rocio on the spot,because I know I could and I knew she
would have opinions because you've
Yeah,
Rocio's training
I
class.
I always have opinions.
We've talked about it amongst ourselves,but imposter syndrome, for lack of
(36:15):
a better word, we'll call it that.
But that feeling of, "oh, like I'mnot ready or I don't like", and
it's really selling yourself short.
So, I'm constantly working on that.
And, I think you mentioned likemasterminds, I think that would
be a really cool approach.
You know, I love book clubs, so
Book clubs.
Yeah.
Always reaching for the, the self helpliterature and I want to talk about it.
(36:36):
So yeah, I think, I think, that,and then not, you know, and then
putting it into action, you know, and,and having time for reflection and
feedback and then further discussion.
That whole stream is, I think,really relevant to a lot of people.
Regardless of what rung, whether you'rekind of an organic leader, right?
Just someone who reallycompels charisma or you are an
(36:57):
organizational leader formally.
I'll just give Betty a shout out.
Betty Danois.
I don't know if you know who thatis, Katie, but she has a great
podcast series that is specificallydealing with imposter syndrome.
And she does this amazing conferencesession with imposter monsters.
And so, giving a Bettya shout out right now.
Awesome.
These are really helpfulthings to keep in mind.
(37:19):
Yeah, Imposter Syndromeis a big one for leaders.
It's a good call out.
Diego, last but not least.
I think I'm kind of likethe same bit as Katie.
But honestly, for me, I think I'mstill very new to my leadership skills.
I think being still in collegeand everything, I'm still learning
what kind of leader I want to be.
And so, I think for me, mostly thoselike mentorship programs and like cohorts
(37:40):
of like getting to like listen to otherleaders has been really important for
me, because I'm getting to see like howleaders interact with their colleagues;
and, kind of, just getting to learntheir stories; and how they got to
where they are; and how they take thoseexperiences and put them into how they
treat their employees and stuff like that.
So, that's kind of where I am is likefinding like leaders that inspire
me to be a better leader and takingtheir tactics and their skill sets
(38:05):
and putting them into my tool belt tobe the best leader that I can be for
my teams when I go into the realm ofworking a professional career eventually.
Well, I think you're doing a great joband we know that you did just go to a
leadership conference too, didn't you?
Yeah, so you're working on thoseskills all the time, Diego.
Definitely.
Well, I'm going to wrap this up,because this has been a longer episode
(38:29):
than I think we expected it to be.
But basically, what I would say is thebig takeaway I'm hearing here is really
like understanding your context, realizingleadership is a very human skill, whether
you are like a tough love kind of leaderor you know, you're, you're more of an
empathetic person or somewhere in between.
You still are dealing with humans.
And so, social learning is needed.
(38:50):
Everybody here said, like, I wantto understand how people respond.
I need to understand, kindof, how I respond to people.
I would love formalized coaching.
I would love formalized training.
I don't want to just be thrown outthere to make these really high impact
decisions that affect people's lives.
And so, if, if you want to keepimproving your leadership skills
training, what I would say is...
(39:10):
First, I would definitely recommendthat article we published.
I think it was two weeks ago, by thetime you listen to this episode, it
may be older than that; but it waswith nine leaders from organizations
who are thriving through changeand growth, which, you know, if
you're growing, you are changing.
And, there were some reallyinteresting insights there about how
they think about strategy; about howthey think about talent; about how
(39:33):
they think about even AI, which isa big theme for us all right now.
So, I would definitelyrecommend checking that out.
It's on the Your InstructionalDesigner blog, definitely
in the show notes as always.
And then, the other piece is if you'restruggling with that learning and
development plan, so many organizationstell us they just don't have time to
build it or it's like a little convoluted.
There's too many things.
They don't know how to put into practice.
(39:54):
They have something, butlike nobody likes it.
Any of those things, you know, youcan always call us the four of us.
We'd be thrilled to help you.
And so, what I always say is likethe lightning rounds are a great
low stakes way if you just want tolike pick our brains or if you are
just looking for someone to validateyour own thinking or perhaps help
you understand the theory behind thethings you want to put into practice.
(40:15):
Those are really low stakes waysto make a really big impact on your
leadership development training.
And so, you can book those atyourinstructionaldesigner.com/lightninground.
And of course, we're alwayshappy to do something bigger.
We would love to create you anentire leadership development cohort.
They can be super effective whenyou really blend that community with
that smart curation strategy andthat really great curriculum plan.
(40:36):
So, if you want the big picture,we're happy to help you do that.
But I always say start lightning round,because you know, you can always take
that small, tiny, you know, small fee andapply it to the bigger project anyway.
That'll really help uswork through things.
So again, whether you want to checkout that article, whether you want to
go and check out the lightning rounds,or if you're interested in some of the
HBR articles we talked about today,definitely check out the show notes.
(41:00):
And then, I want to say thank you tothe three of you for being here and
letting me kind of pick your brains aboutleadership and being open and honest about
your thoughts about leadership becauseI know, you know, there are always power
dynamics at play when you're talkingabout leadership with people who are
putting you on their payroll kind of deal.
So, thank you to you three.
Thanks for listening labmates.
See you next time.
The big takeaway fromthis episode is this..
(41:23):
Leadership skills are social, and youcan't wait until people are thrust into
leadership roles to prepare them to lead.
Everyone should have access toleadership skills training and
development opportunities, even ifthey're not going to be promoted
to a formal people leadership role.
And, to train people, you need to createopportunities for them to speak with one
(41:44):
another, for them to grapple with complexideas, and to give and receive feedback
in a safe environment, so they knowhow to do these things when it matters.
We want to give you theopportunity to do the same with
this week's experiment brief.
You're going to explore whichleadership skills your people still
need to improve, and then have theopportunity to start matching your needs
(42:06):
with the appropriate social learningexperience to help close the gap.
You can find the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the social
learning lab community on LinkedIn.
In the community, you can also shareyour stories, get feedback and insights
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleaselike, subscribe, or share so we can
continue to build a supportive groupof social learning enthusiasts.
(42:29):
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
According to a comprehensive studyby Deloitte, 86 percent of business
leaders believe that developing newleaders is an urgent or important
need, and yet only 13 percent ofcompanies rate themselves as excellent
at developing leaders at all levels.
Similarly, a study by DDI, the conferenceboard, and EY, involving 25,812 leaders
(00:25):
found that only 14 percent of CEOsand HR executives believe they have
a strong leadership bench;, while64 percent of leaders say they feel
unprepared for their leadership roles.
So, friends, are you ready?
What are we doing when it comesto leadership skill development?
That is what today's episode is all about.
(00:45):
Studies show as we can see thatleadership skills are a massive gap
for many organizations, especiallyas boomers leave the workforce.
So, in this episode, we're going toreveal where leaders triumph, where they
fail, and how to close the leadershipskills gap with social learning, because
leadership is a social skill after all.
(01:06):
So, lab mates, join us for this episodeof the Social Learning Lab, a pod class
about social learning at work, andlet's lead our organizations forward.
Okay, labmates, we are going to diveright into the topic of cultivating
leadership with social learning, becausethe ripple down effect of leadership
is really important to an organization.
(01:29):
Not to say that, you know, theorganization has to beat up town.
Not to say that people from other areasof the business are not critical also
to building culture and skills andall the wonderful things companies do.
But, you know, it is reallyhard for a company to succeed
if leadership is not effective.
So, I wanted to ask the three of you.
So I, Rocio, Diego, Katie,you're all with me today.
(01:52):
Let's start with the good stuff,like, what leader in your life
or maybe not in your immediatecircle do you really admire most?
And, what's one skill that theyhave that you would love to emulate?
I can go first.
Okay.
Yeah, go for it.
I'm not really out there in the world.
So, I'm going to pick two people in mylife that I think are great leaders.
(02:12):
The first one is my dad.
He's, aside from being a leader and otherstuff, he owns a company and I really
admire the way that he runs people and theway that he treats people in the company.
But most of all, I admire froma very young age that my father
is not afraid of failure.
So, it's very much just going for itand trying it out; and the, he always
(02:35):
says like, the worst thing that couldhappen is it doesn't work; and then,
you know, you move on to something else.
So, that's the first one.
I think that when you're a leader,you can't, you shouldn't at least
be afraid of things failing ortrying things out, because you
think that they're going to fail.
And then, my secondone, it's, Nicole, which
Stop that.
(02:55):
She's right here with us.
But, you know, I think that's somethingthat always sticks with me is that,
I am a very pessimistic person,I would say; and my cup is always
half empty for most of the times.
And, sometimes, you know, we get likelast minute things that happens in every
project and it always happens last minuteon like the last review cycle; and my
(03:16):
mind is like, no, I planned everything.
Everything was going so perfect, butshe is always able to talk me down and
be like, "okay, one step at a time.
Let's work with what we can work withand what we have control of right now".
And for me, that's something that I lackthat I admire in Nicole to be able to
(03:37):
view things like that, in the face of notdisaster, but in the face of when things
don't go our way to be able to step backand say, "hey like, let's just work on
what we have control or we can work onand everything else will fall into place".
So
That's very kind of you.
(04:00):
I think you all do that for me too though.
Like it's a, you know, it's very hardto see when you are personally panicked.
And so, you know, when yousay I do that for you, but you
both, you all do it for me too.
On that note, anyone else want to go?
Cause I'm just goingto sit here and blush.
Yeah, I think just adding to that.
I wrote down leaders who aren'tafraid to like, not know the answer.
(04:24):
So, I've worked with a lot of peoplelike this that I really admire,
including people on this team.
So yeah, I'm just adding on that.
But, you know, I think it shows likeintellectual humility and openness and
curiosity and flexibility and all of thosethings like, and so that's been like,
starting back when I first was teaching,I think a really hard and scary thing
(04:46):
for me was to learn to say, I don't know,like when you're in the front of the room.
And I, I really admired that andother teachers who like showed
me how to be a good teacher.
And so, yeah, just kind of extrapolatingfrom there with leadership.
I really think the people thatI see shining are those who have
the confidence, and the abilityto kind of say, I don't know.
And, it's not always somebody in, youknow, on the hierarchy, like, you know,
(05:08):
up, up there the chart, like, it'slike people all over the company who
have a responsibility, I think, too.
And so, a lot of, a lot of cool leadershipgoing on all over the place in that way.
So, yeah.
I guess it's my turn.
I'd say that for me, I reallyadmire my mom as a leader.
Being a school teacher and everything,I've kind of gotten to see how
(05:31):
she runs her teams and everything.
Her being in the team leader roles andher moving around, being able to adjust.
I think that's something that I admiremost, but I think what really stands
out is that it takes a good leaderwho has compassion for the ones that
they work for and is willing to putthemselves in their shoes and take a
step back and examine things from theground up and work with those people to
(05:53):
help them in areas that they struggle.
I think a lot of leaders attimes see themselves at power
and put themselves on a pedestal.
And, I think the great leaders areones that are able to bring everyone
to the pedestal with them and puteverybody on the same playing field.
And, it's very inspirational tosee somebody who is able to, you
know, work with kids, helpingthem achieve greater success.
(06:15):
I think that's something that I admiremost from a leader is somebody who's
willing to help outside people in theirexpertise and help others achieve where
they are wanting to go with their goals.
Nobody was like, I really admireleaders who just make tons of money.
I really admire leaders who will cuteveryone down just to get what they want.
And, yeah, like it's funny, not, you know,I'm, overemphasizing some things here,
(06:37):
but if you went into a different space,I mean, leaders like Elon Musk come up
a lot, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, you know,kind of a certain space, especially when
you get into like the startup world.
And so, it's really interesting tohear that none of that came up for us.
It doesn't say anything good or bad.
It's just an interesting thingthat like, I guess it fits with
(06:57):
what we've built here, right?
Like, we clearly are looking forexperimentation, willingness to
put yourself out there, a bit ofvulnerability, a bit of connection
making, right, relationship building.
So, that's what I'm hearing youall say; and it's definitely a very
different type of leader than maybe theones we find most often in the news.
(07:17):
Yeah, I think that being known doesn'tnecessarily make you a good leader.
And, we know that, I mean, thesepeople are leaders in their field
and they make a lot of money, butare they the best people and the
best employers and the best leaders?
And, you know, are theydoing for the people in their
company, looking out for them?
(07:39):
They're not.
We know that, and, you know, wealready named some names that we
can name again that, not the bestleaders when it comes to dealing
with their people and the people intheir companies, so, in my opinion.
So, you know, I think that leadershiptakes different roles, you know, dictators
are considered leaders in their nations.
Are they the best leaders?
Uh, not necessarily.
(07:59):
So, I think that how you get to thatposition of leadership is important,
and the things you did along theway to gain that is important.
This is why we're mentioning thingsthat, you know, are positives in a
journey to leadership, I would say.
And, I also think that leadershiptakes many different forms I know
when I was a Freshman my coach mademe read The Captain's Class and
(08:22):
it talked about like leadership insports and every leader is different.
I think, you know, certain leaders havecertain qualities that are fitting for
what role they're in and I think youhave to look at what industry you're in
and what kind of leadership you need foryour either your enterprise your agency
your company, because some companies mayrequire somebody who's very assertive
very on point very dictatorship whereothers are going to be more somebody who's
(08:44):
willing to be listening and vulnerable;and I think that's kind of dependent
on the type of industry you're in.
But I also feel that leaders also haveto have a point of being able to have
reason behind why they act a certain way.
And, I think that sometimes gets lostin translation with being in that power.
So, I could see where Rocio is sayingthat, you know, we have leaders
(09:06):
that are very much dictatorship,but they have to have an ability to
show that this is why I'm doing it.
It has to have ajustifiable reason in that.
That's a great point.
It's and you said sports and soI'm like, well, there's like the
Bill Belichick of the world, likepeople love him, even though they
hate him at the same time, right?
And so, it's a great pointthat leadership is contextual.
(09:27):
Maybe that brings me to my nextpoint, which is just in your own
experience, before we get into somemore like the tactical stuff about
what you can do to make sure youdon't fall into the traps, what are
some of the traps or some of the waysyou've seen leaders fail in your life?
I think for me, there's a lotof leaders who, they use their
voice when it's not necessary.
(09:48):
And, I say this because I've had someexperiences where I've run into a lot
of leaders, where they say a lot offluff and when they actually get to
the point that they need to get across,it doesn't come out the correct way.
And so, I think it's being a leader whoknows when to speak at the right time.
And, I think that's something thatis, kind of, you have to learn
through experience, because I'velearned from being on teams and stuff.
(10:09):
You can say a lot of stuff.
You can be this team captain andtalk a lot, but if you're not really
getting to the point of what youneed your team to do, you're not
going to be an effective leader.
And, I think that's something thata lot of leaders fail is that they
want to be talking all the time.
And, I think that talking andbeing assertive is the best way to
go about it, but I think honestlyknowing when to speak at the right
time is what makes a good leader.
(10:30):
It reminds me of something Dan Pinksaid at the ATD conference, which was
essentially like, if you are talkingover your people, that's a problem
because what you really want to do is letthem say it and then be like, exactly,
like you don't need to own the idea.
And I'll, it is a hard thing to do asa leader and just as a human, right?
Not to take ownershipfor those good ideas.
(10:52):
So, exactly, Diego.
I, I hear that one.
Yeah, for sure.
What about Rocio, Katie, got anything?
Just going to bring it back.
I think Diego mentioned it whenhe was talking about his mom
and we mentioned a little bit.
Just clinging to formal authority whereyou're just in a position of authority and
everybody has to say what you say, like,what you do, what you say, and that's it.
(11:16):
And, they have to do it becauseyou're the boss; and, if you don't do
it, then you're gone, which we haveseen happen a lot with the work from
home and going back into the office.
And like, if we're not coming backinto the office and you know, there's
the door and you can go, and, youknow, I just, I don't think asserting
authority in that way works and I thinkit usually, it's just, I don't know,
(11:38):
it gives up to a environment wherepeople don't want to be around you.
People don't want to,you know, what is it you?
I don't even know how to explain it.
I don't even know what I'm trying to say.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that,you know, authority isn't always like that
authoritarian, you know, way of leading isnot conducive of an environment that, you
(12:00):
know, people feel welcomed or they wantto be there and they want to listen to you
and they want to do what you tell them.
And then, another one is resistanceto change, right, like we've been
doing this like this for forever.
So, we're going to keep doing itlike this because it works; and then,
you know, the world keeps movingand then it's too hard to catch up.
So, I would say thatthat's one of them too.
(12:24):
Yeah, and I'll just add thequality I admire, one of the
qualities I admire most that I hadsaid was, intellectual humility.
So, sort of, the flip side of that orthe trap would be, you know, kind of
doubling down and like really not beingopen to hearing other perspectives
or ideas that could probably happenfor so many different reasons that
I want to feel compassionate about.
I don't know.
I don't know.
This is a hypothetical, but, youknow, it's like, just trying to
(12:47):
be like hearing everybody andlike kind of like Rocio said, like
being flexible and open to change.
Yeah.
I think those are allreally interesting ones.
Uh huh, Rocio?
Sorry, Nicole.
I was just going to saylike, authority is not bad.
If you're a leader, you haveauthority over your department or
the people that you're overseeing.
And, at the end of the day, if youneed to make a decision, you need
(13:08):
to make a decision, but the decisionis not made because I told you so,
or because I say so, or becausethat's the way I want it to get done.
Like, there has to be, likeDiego said, there has to be
reasoning behind that decision.
That's not just whatever it is, becauseyou want to do it that way and that's it.
You know, like, I don'tthink authority is bad.
Leaders have authority, but it's justhow you use it and how you implement
that authority over the people thatyou're overseeing, I would say.
(13:32):
I think it's being able to be human iswhat I think a lot of leadership needs.
I think that most times when you putyourself above, it's hard to bring
yourself down to that human level andbe like these are human experiences
and I think you know a good leader issomeone who's able to be vulnerable
with their employees; and I thinkit ties into everything is like you
have to show that you're still human.
(13:53):
You're going to make mistakes.
You're gonna, but how as a leader, areyou going to overcome those mistakes?
How are you going to show yourteam that you're willing to push
through those struggles, persevere?
And, I think that's really what itcomes down to is showing that you're
still human, but able to stillcontinue and achieve success is what's
going to make you stand out fromthe rest of the leaders out there.
(14:14):
We like the term, generous authority.
I feel like we just go back to PriyaParker's work all the time, but
that's kind of what it reminded mewhen you're all talking about it.
So I tried to pull from the articlewe did with the nine leaders and then
some of our own work with clients.
Just, you know, what are thechallenges we've been hearing?
And, if you hear one that I'm notlistening here, please chime in.
(14:36):
But leadership is, when you talk aboutin a formalized role, it is a tough role.
I mean, we're seeing CEOs burnout quicker than ever before.
And, I know a lot of us are like, youknow, tiny violin, we don't feel so bad
for the guy earning a billion bucks,but you know, CEO is not always that
person; and anyway, that's a very longwinded way of saying, so the challenges,
we talked about the failures, butwe are seeing the challenges, right.
There's there's a lot of foresightand strategic visioning that
(14:59):
needs to happen as a leader.
You have to be able to predict,you know, what's coming next and
plan for it before it gets there.
Agility is a really tough one, right,how do you lead your team and being
agile and adaptable; and then, balancingthat with like not losing the stability.
So, continuous improvement, butalso like you need something
to hold on to, so people feellike they're part of something.
(15:21):
You've got to serve multiple key players,right, your stakeholders in the formal
sense of the term; you might be talkingabout your employees; you might be talking
about other executive leadership; clients.
There's so many people that youtalk to and serve potentially
as a leader, depending on whereyou're playing in an organization.
And then, talent.
When we're talking about, you know,enterprise and things like that,
(15:42):
talent's a really big challenge.
Right now, everyone's like, Oh, you'vegot to attract the right people.
We've got to keep the right people.
And then, skills; and that's obviouslylike our bread and butter over here.
But like, does everyone have the rightskills while everything is changing and we
have to serve all these different needs?
We've got the AI panicthat's happening right now.
Do we, are we going to need these people?
Do I need to fix my skills?
(16:03):
Do I understand enough to makedecisions about AI for my team?
Does anything else ring a bell?
Because I mean, I feel like thatwas a really hefty list already.
Well, I'm gonna work with that then.
I feel like that was areally big list already.
And so, between just trying to be humanor maybe you don't care about being human
That's not your leadership way of doingthings like your you think your job is
(16:25):
just to make decisions, but either waythere there are some clear skills, right.
So, we just talked about some of them.
There are some clear skills that youneed if you want to be a really strong
leader, whether that is formallyas, you know, executive leadership
management that sort of thing orjust someone who is able to rally and
influence people to get something done.
And so, why we thinksocial learning, right?
(16:48):
This is kind of the heart of this episode.
It took us a while to get to but likewhy we think social learning is a
great tool for closing that leadershipskills gap is because leadership
is inherently a social activity.
And, to be a good leader, you needto be able to predict how people are
going to react; and then to be able torespond appropriately to those reactions
(17:10):
and to communicate your vision; thenstrategize and motivate people to get the
things done you need them to get done.
So, whether you, you know, want tosoften the blow or whether you are
going to be that dictator, like eitherway, you need to be able to predict
what people are going to do and howthey're going to respond and then make
sure you're responding appropriately.
So, that's very social, right.
Learning to just sense how peoplewill be is, is pretty social.
(17:32):
Then, there's the wholelearning to build relationships.
We talked about that already.
You need to learn andgive and receive feedback.
I mean, that's a huge job as a leaderof hearing what you're not doing
well, hearing what you are doing well,knowing what to take, what to leave.
And then, we've been talking about socialinfluence so much on these episodes that
that, that has become another piece.
So, I think recognizing as a leaderwhen social influence is impacting you.
(17:57):
Like, you know, maybe everyone on theteam wants X; and then, sometimes that
is okay and you can follow the socialinfluence, right, and, and kind of commit
to the trend; and sometimes you have toknow whether you should go against the,
the social influence, the, the trendor whatever it is, the social pressure.
And so, all of those thingsare very social skills.
(18:18):
There are things that in my verystrong opinion, and I see you nodding,
so I'm thinking you're agreeing.
They can't just be learned from like ane-learning or even just someone giving
you like the tips, you know, if, if, the,the succession planning is just the leader
before you telling you a bunch of like,okay, this is what happens when you do X.
It just doesn't work.
You, you really do need to exercise thatsocial interaction to be able to get it.
(18:44):
Actually, in one of the HBR GlobalLeadership Development Reports from 2023,
they said that "71 percent of employeeswould agree that to learn something new
or change their thinking, they actuallyneed to discuss it with someone first".
And, I was just thinking, well,leadership's a pretty big one in there.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Is there anything that made youthink about or anything you feel
(19:07):
like within leadership that issocial that I did not mention yet?
Well, I read an article from HBR too andit's called What Makes a Great Leader.
And, I found it interesting, becausea lot of the things that they talk
about, about what makes a great leaderdeals with it being social, like
(19:28):
inherently social, like there's no wayof getting out of that social aspect
that comes with being in leadership.
And, it mentions that leadersshould excel in three roles, right?
One of them is the architect, whichis the people that the leaders that
create culture and capabilitiesthat empower everyone to innovate.
(19:50):
So, it deals with creating thatspace for people to innovate.
And then, they should be a bridger,right, meaning that they need to
be able to access talent and toolsbeyond their immediate organization,
so they should always be out there,like bridging those gaps in order
to keep that innovation going.
(20:11):
And then, the third one is,they should be catalysts.
So, these leaders should, you know,encourage and accelerate cross functional
collaborations, between ecosystems,you know, so they call it the ABCs.
So, Architect, the Bridger and theCatalyst; and I thought that was
pretty interesting because in everyrole, there is a social aspect to it.
(20:35):
It's just, they're saying that this arethe three things that leaders should be if
they want to, you know, good leadership.
Interesting.
And, that we should move away fromthat formal authority of like,
I'm the boss and this is why we'redoing things, because I said so.
So, you know.
That's my first time hearingof those three roles.
(20:56):
And I'm going to goread that whole article.
It sounds super interesting.
Yeah, like, I mean, the end goal is tofoster collaboration, experimentation,
learning, personal transformation of youremployees, like all of that, you know,
so I thought that was really interesting.
Soo many people don't get supportas they transition into formalized
(21:18):
leadership positions to do any of that.
I don't know.
Here's what I did and it'sbeen working this whole time.
So, you do it the same way.
And, I think that once again, and I alwayssay this, like we live in this, like such
individualistic society that everybody'sjust like, I'm going to be here.
(21:39):
I'm going to be here forthis amount of years.
I'm going to try to do as much as I can,so people know me, people know my name,
I'm building my resume; and then, fiveyears down the road, two years down the
road, you're out; and then, the nextone comes in and it's the same thing.
And, when that happens, nothingreally, you know, it's all about
what you can accomplish so thatpeople see you in that role.
(22:00):
Well, and I think going on to that too.
It's reflective of what your workenvironment's going to look like.
If you have a leader that is likethat, that's how your employees are
going to react and how they're goingto be trained to act in the workplace.
Like they see their leaderthat way you set the standard.
Social learning.
So, if you want, exactly, so if youwant them to meet the standard that
you want to be at, then they'regoing to meet that based on how
(22:23):
you, you know, give yourself off.
So, if you want them to be helpful, youmight as well be helpful in that aspect.
So, I think kind of going back to lastseason, when we talked to Tonya, she said
that a lot of the training programs thatare being built are failing, because it
comes down to the leadership, is thatthe leaders have said it in the beginning
that, oh, this isn't going to work.
(22:44):
When you go and tell your employees thatit's just filler it's just that, they're
gonna react the same way you tell them.
So, I think as a leadership youalso have to think about how you're
being, how you're conveying yourmessages to everybody and like you
want to again set that standard forhow you want your employees to work.
If you want to be that want themto be there long term, you have
(23:04):
to be setting goals to show thatyou're gonna be there long term.
If they see that you're gonna be out thedoor in five years, they're not going
to stay very long, because they're like,well, there's no reason to if I'm going
to have a new leader in the next fiveyears, in the next two, three years.
So, I think that's also important.
Yeah, and it just it fits into everything.
You know, I, last semester, I took aclass on business process management.
(23:27):
I'm graduating at the beginning of August.
So, yay.
And, you know, I found it interesting andit touches on this point of like, people
are just there to move on, where theprofessor was like, you know, business
process management process mapping.
That's all great, but most of the timeit doesn't work, because these leaders
coming in, they put a process in placeto be looked at by the authorities
(23:52):
above and to be like, Oh, wow.
And then, they build this thing; andthen, they leave and no one, there's no
follow up, there is no, like the processof like, you know, process management
requires you to like, put somethingout there, review it, see if it works.
If it doesn't work, changing the partsthat don't work, all of that, that
doesn't happen, because now this personthat initiated this process is out the
(24:14):
door and now it's just another processthat people have to follow and they
don't know what they have to follow it.
And, it stays in the company.
No one goes back.
No one's reviews it.
No one's in charge.
There's nothing there.
And, you have all these companies, youhave all these big name companies with
all these processes; and so much redtape to get something done because of
that constant leadership change, youknow, so I was, I was just like, yeah,
(24:38):
this class, I learned a lot, but he waslike, yeah, most of the time it doesn't
like this process management stuff.
It's just theoretically it should work,
We have never changed a process, Rocio.
Ours are so perfectly mapped.
Yeah, for sure.
At least our podcast processgoes pretty smoothly.
You
know, that
(24:59):
There is, so I, I'm gonna bring itall together just by saying, there is
social need in every single facet ofleadership like that's what I'm hearing,
even in these new examples, which is,you know, you if you have a process
you have to communicate it; you haveto share it; but, at the end of the
day, it needs to be about more thanwell how can I make a name for myself.
(25:21):
And, that's maybe the gap that wehaven't closed aside from a whole
bunch of other skills like strategicleadership consulting all that stuff,
but like that's a gap we have to closeas we think about how we bring in new
leaders or people who are developed.
Everyone's a developing leader, right?
Nobody is ever just like donebest leader in the world,
even if they're a top leader.
And so like, what doesthat look like in practice?
(25:43):
And, if you've been listening thisfar, like here's, here's what I
would recommend and team, pleasefeel free to add to this list.
But these are some things we'veseen work really well by and large
expectation setting, and thatcan be derived from feedback.
So, if you're going out to your teamand saying, what kind of leadership,
what kind of support do I need?
What have I seen workwell for this company?
What do I hope willhappen for this company?
(26:04):
And, you can use that in additionto regular succession planning, you
know, what what does, the what dothe people currently in the role or
the people above that think a leaderin this position needs to succeed?
When you combine those, you can get areally good plan for expectations but
so often like expectations are reallyjust set up as like business metrics,
you know, like your team has to make 500million in sales this year or whatever.
(26:30):
That's not really tellingthem how to be a leader.
So, I think really settingup those conversations about
well, what does it mean to leadsuccessfully in our organization?
Is a really important onethat often gets overlooked.
The other ones I would saymentoring programs is a big one.
So, whether that's one on one or smallgroups, knowing you have someone you can
go to; because when you're a leader is avery, it can be very lonely; especially
(26:53):
if you're like a new manager promotedfrom being an individual contributor, it's
really difficult to now be in charge ofthe people who are still your equals as
humans, but maybe on the org chart or not.
And so, I, like, I know even personallywhen I first got promoted and I was
overseeing my department, I was like,well, I don't, I don't know how I
can really have authority over thesepeople who I just was working alongside
(27:16):
and doing that exact same job as.
And, it was a, a really strange thing.
And, I was almost afraid to like, goout to lunch with them and stuff at a
certain point, cause I was like, well,what if I have to give them bad feedback
or what if I have to let someone go?
And, proof that didn't work.
Anyway, that's very off, off chartway, but you want to be able to
talk to someone about those things.
And so, mentorships are really important.
And, of course, preparing those mentorsto be good mentors is part of that.
(27:37):
Then, executive coachingand leadership hotlines.
Again, that's like thephone a friend, right?
Who's going to be your leader to go to,even if it's not an internal mentor.
Is there a coach or someone whoreally knows leadership that you
can set this person up to talk with?
And, executive coaching is great.
We have a bunch of people we know.
I'll give a shout out to Lisa Spinelli.
She's really great at theexecutive coaching stuff.
(27:59):
As you move people into thesehigher leadership positions-
Director, VP- preparing themperhaps to take on the C suite jobs.
Executive coaching is incrediblyvaluable, because people can set their
targets and their goals, and theyhave someone to bounce their very
specific ideas off, give feedback,and then plan for the next stage.
Shadowing and reflection.
I mean, you were talking about it, Diego.
(28:21):
You know, what you see your leadersdo is what will get emulated.
And so, are people in yourorganization having an
opportunity to shadow leadership?
To maybe walk through their, I liketo call it like the director's cut?
So, them talking over why they'redoing the things they're doing and
how they're making the decisions theyare; and then, taking time to reflect
themselves and integrate what they'vejust seen with their own behaviors
(28:43):
and what they want to keep and change.
We've seen cohorts be incrediblyeffective for leadership.
So, taking groups of leaders, whetherthey're all in the same organization or
different organizations, and putting themthrough several weeks or even several
months together; and either you can dothis formally, right, break, breaking them
out, maybe to do, to create a project,or maybe they're working, let's say, the
(29:08):
first few weeks on their philosophy ofleadership, and then the next few weeks
is like, they're personal leadershipguide; and then, they work after that
to do like their communication, right.
Every week can be something differentor every month can be a different theme.
That really gives people an opportunityto integrate what they are learning
as leaders and seeing their realuse cases and then bringing it
(29:29):
back to a trusted group of peers.
I cannot under sell how or Icannot over sell, I should say, how
important cohorts are to leaders.
And if you have the ability to havea number of leaders within your
organization in a cohort at the sametime, you will see massive results.
Not everybody has a big enough team todo that, but if you can highly recommend.
And then, the kind of in thesame vein is like masterminds.
(29:51):
And so, it's the big thing withintrapreneurs, but it works really
great with leaders too, at all levels.
And again, leader doesn'thave to mean C suite.
It can mean like, your new individualcontributor, your new intern who
just wants to be someone influential.
So, you can put people in mastermindsand either give them a topic to discuss
every week or just kind of keep that forumopen, so that they can come together and
(30:12):
work through challenges and strugglesand talk about their wins as peers.
That was a really big list.
So, just i'm gonna like check them offreally quick, but it was expectation
setting; mentoring; executive coachingand leadership hotlines; shadowing;
reflecting; cohorts; and then masterminds.
Did I miss anything onthat extensive list?
Cause now I already have like three inmind that I'm already like, yes, I did.
(30:35):
But I mean, those are just a few sociallearning ones that I came up with to help
leaderships close the leadership gap.
Well, anything that I missed team?
I mean, I think, I think those are great.
I just, I say just more of it, right?
Like more of it, cause I think insome places you get it, but like,
So many, you don't.
(30:55):
The lack of leadership and managementtraining that like people just like
you said, like what happened to youthat go into like this roles and
they don't know what they're doing.
They don't know who to go to.
They don't have someoneto walk them through it.
The processes are not there,because someone looked at the
processes like 10 years ago andthen it hasn't changed anything.
So like, technology inthe process is outdated.
Like all this stuff is not there anymore.
(31:16):
Now, we have all this new stuff.
Who do I go to if I need, you know,something like who's going to help
me if, if I don't know what to do?
Like, even just like setting goals.
Like, if you're moving from a place whereyou weren't setting those type of goals
and now you're in this leadership positionand you have to set cross functional goals
and like all this other type of goals,like, how do you even do that, right?
Like, that's not somethingyou go to school for.
(31:37):
That's not a certificate.
That's not formal education.
So like, what kind of trainings areyou putting in place to make sure
that your leaders are successful?
Just like you do for your, you know, therest of your employees; especially like,
especially leaders that deal with people,like first-line managers, you know, like,
because you go from being like an employeeto like being that first line manager.
(32:00):
And now, you have to deal with people.
Now, you have to manage people, which isnot the same as being, you know, a sisu,
you know, leader, like, that's completelydifferent aspects of leadership.
So, something to think about.
So, we want to see more of it or all ofit, like you could do all of those things.
I think that would bea magic place to work.
(32:20):
too, like
So the three of you, whether you wouldlike to say you are not, but I think you
would agree, you're also all leaders.
And, I just curious, like for yourselves,what would you wish would be your next
step in your own leadership development?
I didn't send you thatquestion in advance.
So, I'm just throwing you a, acurve ball there, but I would
(32:42):
love to leave off on that.
Like, I can think of if I can lead it off,if it makes it easier, but I would love
to know, you know, what would you love tocontinue developing yourselves as leaders?
I can say for me it's probably somewherebetween presence or like; I already have
a business coach that's probably not that,but I feel like the thing I love about the
leaders I really admire is their presence.
(33:03):
Like not that they take themselvesseriously, but they have some
gravitas to them, even whenthey're really nice people.
And, I am a little, youknow, wishy-washy, friendly.
So, that would be like an area for me thatthat's something I would love to do next;
and maybe that might be a formal courseor that might be coaching of some kind.
Rocio's like, I've just been inleadership boot camp forever.
(33:25):
So, I asked her this.
No, but really, what would you love next?
Are you asking me directly?
Yeah, I'm putting you on thespot because I know I can.
It's usually most willing.
Yeah.
I would say and I go back to this.
I think that for me, you know, I,I've been in a lot of my jobs have
been some kind of leadership position.
(33:47):
I would say, like, as a teacher,obviously, like, let's say, you
know, pretty big leadership position.
Just being a teacher.
You don't have to be the schoolprincipal or anything like that.
Like you, you are whatthe students look up to.
And then, I, you know,I was an office manager.
And then, now, I'm a project manager.
I would love to learn more the peopleaspect, like I was saying, the people
(34:07):
aspect of leadership and that fine lineand that great line that you were talking
about, Nicole, from that role that youwent from being the employee to being the
leader on how you handle those things.
It happened in the school too, right,like you're a teacher and then you
move on to like another role that'slike you're overseeing teachers
and that was a little awkward.
(34:28):
It does have some awkwardness.
Yeah, for sure.
Like, what is that fine line of being?
Because I don't think there's a separate,there shouldn't be a separation, right?
Like I'm your leader and you'remy employee and like, this is
the line that we can't, likehow to set boundaries, right.
Setting boundaries is a good one.
Yeah.
know, I would say.
So, would you in your magical worldwhere you get whatever you want?
(34:49):
Are you going toconferences to learn that?
Are you doing coaching?
Are you getting mentored?
Are you sitting through acohort with other leaders?
What would you love?
I think coaching probably.
I would say an observation and I don'tthink it's something, I mean, you
could probably sit there and someone,that's what I did in my program, right?
Like, my master's is in management.
It's not, it's like, you know, businessmanagement, not business administration.
(35:12):
So, it's like the peopleaspect of business.
And, everything is theory, but the actualpractice of it, like, how do you, you
know, it's like when I was in teachertraining, right, and they tell you, you
know, how to deal with students, but like,if the student is not listening to me
and they're like throwing chairs around,like, what am I supposed to do, right?
Like what, you know what I mean?
(35:34):
Like in theory, it's all great.
Like talk to them, calm them down.
You're nice, blah, blah, blah.
But then, what if none ofthose things work, right?
Like, so I think that observation,coaching, you know, probably some kind of
like back and forth scenario type stuff.
I think that that's important whenyou're trying to learn, because
(35:54):
it deals with people's behavior.
That's hard to, do.
Yes.
Just a period.
Diego, Katie, do eitherof you want to share?
I, I only put Rocio on the spot,because I know I could and I knew she
would have opinions because you've
Yeah,
Rocio's training
I
class.
I always have opinions.
We've talked about it amongst ourselves,but imposter syndrome, for lack of
(36:15):
a better word, we'll call it that.
But that feeling of, "oh, like I'mnot ready or I don't like", and
it's really selling yourself short.
So, I'm constantly working on that.
And, I think you mentioned likemasterminds, I think that would
be a really cool approach.
You know, I love book clubs, so
Book clubs.
Yeah.
Always reaching for the, the self helpliterature and I want to talk about it.
(36:36):
So yeah, I think, I think, that,and then not, you know, and then
putting it into action, you know, and,and having time for reflection and
feedback and then further discussion.
That whole stream is, I think,really relevant to a lot of people.
Regardless of what rung, whether you'rekind of an organic leader, right?
Just someone who reallycompels charisma or you are an
(36:57):
organizational leader formally.
I'll just give Betty a shout out.
Betty Danois.
I don't know if you know who thatis, Katie, but she has a great
podcast series that is specificallydealing with imposter syndrome.
And she does this amazing conferencesession with imposter monsters.
And so, giving a Bettya shout out right now.
Awesome.
These are really helpfulthings to keep in mind.
(37:19):
Yeah, Imposter Syndromeis a big one for leaders.
It's a good call out.
Diego, last but not least.
I think I'm kind of likethe same bit as Katie.
But honestly, for me, I think I'mstill very new to my leadership skills.
I think being still in collegeand everything, I'm still learning
what kind of leader I want to be.
And so, I think for me, mostly thoselike mentorship programs and like cohorts
(37:40):
of like getting to like listen to otherleaders has been really important for
me, because I'm getting to see like howleaders interact with their colleagues;
and, kind of, just getting to learntheir stories; and how they got to
where they are; and how they take thoseexperiences and put them into how they
treat their employees and stuff like that.
So, that's kind of where I am is likefinding like leaders that inspire
me to be a better leader and takingtheir tactics and their skill sets
(38:05):
and putting them into my tool belt tobe the best leader that I can be for
my teams when I go into the realm ofworking a professional career eventually.
Well, I think you're doing a great joband we know that you did just go to a
leadership conference too, didn't you?
Yeah, so you're working on thoseskills all the time, Diego.
Definitely.
Well, I'm going to wrap this up,because this has been a longer episode
(38:29):
than I think we expected it to be.
But basically, what I would say is thebig takeaway I'm hearing here is really
like understanding your context, realizingleadership is a very human skill, whether
you are like a tough love kind of leaderor you know, you're, you're more of an
empathetic person or somewhere in between.
You still are dealing with humans.
And so, social learning is needed.
(38:50):
Everybody here said, like, I wantto understand how people respond.
I need to understand, kindof, how I respond to people.
I would love formalized coaching.
I would love formalized training.
I don't want to just be thrown outthere to make these really high impact
decisions that affect people's lives.
And so, if, if you want to keepimproving your leadership skills
training, what I would say is...
(39:10):
First, I would definitely recommendthat article we published.
I think it was two weeks ago, by thetime you listen to this episode, it
may be older than that; but it waswith nine leaders from organizations
who are thriving through changeand growth, which, you know, if
you're growing, you are changing.
And, there were some reallyinteresting insights there about how
they think about strategy; about howthey think about talent; about how
(39:33):
they think about even AI, which isa big theme for us all right now.
So, I would definitelyrecommend checking that out.
It's on the Your InstructionalDesigner blog, definitely
in the show notes as always.
And then, the other piece is if you'restruggling with that learning and
development plan, so many organizationstell us they just don't have time to
build it or it's like a little convoluted.
There's too many things.
They don't know how to put into practice.
(39:54):
They have something, butlike nobody likes it.
Any of those things, you know, youcan always call us the four of us.
We'd be thrilled to help you.
And so, what I always say is likethe lightning rounds are a great
low stakes way if you just want tolike pick our brains or if you are
just looking for someone to validateyour own thinking or perhaps help
you understand the theory behind thethings you want to put into practice.
(40:15):
Those are really low stakes waysto make a really big impact on your
leadership development training.
And so, you can book those atyourinstructionaldesigner.com/lightninground.
And of course, we're alwayshappy to do something bigger.
We would love to create you anentire leadership development cohort.
They can be super effective whenyou really blend that community with
that smart curation strategy andthat really great curriculum plan.
(40:36):
So, if you want the big picture,we're happy to help you do that.
But I always say start lightning round,because you know, you can always take
that small, tiny, you know, small fee andapply it to the bigger project anyway.
That'll really help uswork through things.
So again, whether you want to checkout that article, whether you want to
go and check out the lightning rounds,or if you're interested in some of the
HBR articles we talked about today,definitely check out the show notes.
(41:00):
And then, I want to say thank you tothe three of you for being here and
letting me kind of pick your brains aboutleadership and being open and honest about
your thoughts about leadership becauseI know, you know, there are always power
dynamics at play when you're talkingabout leadership with people who are
putting you on their payroll kind of deal.
So, thank you to you three.
Thanks for listening labmates.
See you next time.
The big takeaway fromthis episode is this..
(41:23):
Leadership skills are social, and youcan't wait until people are thrust into
leadership roles to prepare them to lead.
Everyone should have access toleadership skills training and
development opportunities, even ifthey're not going to be promoted
to a formal people leadership role.
And, to train people, you need to createopportunities for them to speak with one
(41:44):
another, for them to grapple with complexideas, and to give and receive feedback
in a safe environment, so they knowhow to do these things when it matters.
We want to give you theopportunity to do the same with
this week's experiment brief.
You're going to explore whichleadership skills your people still
need to improve, and then have theopportunity to start matching your needs
(42:06):
with the appropriate social learningexperience to help close the gap.
You can find the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the social
learning lab community on LinkedIn.
In the community, you can also shareyour stories, get feedback and insights
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
If you enjoyed this episode, pleaselike, subscribe, or share so we can
continue to build a supportive groupof social learning enthusiasts.
(42:29):
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
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