January 16, 2024 • 36 mins
Social media is a dynamic classroom, where the lessons are not just about content but also about adaptability, relatability, and the art of capturing attention in a world with ever-heightening standards.
In this episode, discover how to seamlessly incorporate social media strategies and techniques to develop your training with special guest, Vanessa Alzate.
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Diego Diaz, Jr Digital Designer
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Special Guest
Vanessa Alzate, CEO & President of Kirkpatrick Partners, Founder of Anchored Training
Vanessa Alzate is the President and CEO of Kirkpatrick Partners and Founder and CEO of Anchored Training, a custom training development agency. For almost 15 years, Vanessa has consulted with many mid-large organizations in industries ranging from government to pharmaceutical sales to fashion in an effort to develop training strategies tailored to each individual organization, team, and learner. Vanessa is a dynamic educator in the classroom and works to bring that classroom experience to life online via webinar training and eLearning. Throughout her career, Vanessa has excelled in assisting companies and individuals to expand their industry knowledge through innovative eLearning and classroom curriculum, and encourages her clients to look around them to find inspiration and strategies to engage their learners. Vanessa gives back to the learning community as a speaker for the Association for Talent Development, Training Magazine, and the Learning Guild.
Interested in finding out more about Kirkpatrick Partners or Anchored Training
Connect with Vanessa on LinkedIn
Mentioned in This Episode
👤 Alex Hormozi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
How many times have you heard someonesay, "I saw this on Instagram",
or "I learned this on TikTok."
Well, that is because social mediais not just a virtual hangout,
rather the ultimate classroom wherelikes, shares, and comments are
the currency of social learning.
Hi lab mates!
Welcome to The Social Learning Lab, apodclass about social learning at work.
In today's episode, we sit down with thepresident and CEO of Kirkpatrick Partners
(00:22):
and founder of Anchored Training, VanessaAlzate, to discuss how social media
acts as a virtual classroom, where ideasspread like wildfire and new perspectives
emerge in the blink of an eye.
Hi lab mates.
Welcome back to the Social Learning Lab.
I'm Diego.
Joined by our other co-host Rocio.
We have a very exciting topicthat we'll be discussing today
with our very special guest.
(00:42):
Lab mates, meet Vanessa Alzate.
She is the president and CEO ofKirkpatrick Partners and founder
and CEO of Anchored Training, acustom training development agency.
She received a BA in both communicationsand political science from Rutgers
University and an MS in corporateand organizational communication
from Northeastern University.
For almost 15 years, Vanessa has consultedwith many mid large organizations and
(01:05):
industries ranging from government,pharmaceutical sales, to fashion,
in an effort to develop trainingstrategies tailored to each individual
organization, team, and learner.
Vanessa is a dynamic educator inthe classroom and works to bring the
classroom experience to life onlinevia webinar training and e-learning.
Throughout her career, Vanessa hasexcelled in assisting companies
and individuals to expand theirindustry knowledge through innovative
(01:27):
e-learning and classroom curriculum,and encourages her clients to look
around them to find inspiration andstrategies to engage their learners.
She gives back to the learning communityas a speaker for the Association for
Talent Development, Training Magazine,and the Learning Guild, Vanessa's
committed to helping everyone becomethe best version of themselves.
She's an advocate for empoweringwomen and increasing belonging.
(01:49):
Vanessa, thank you somuch for being here today.
We are super excited to have you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so glad to finally be on the podcast.
It's been great to listenin on the first season.
Thank you.
Well, we appreciate you being one ofour viewers and we're super excited
now to have you as one of our guests.
So, let's get into it.
So we are gonna go into alittle bit of a different topic.
(02:10):
We're gonna be talking about socialmedia, which I really enjoy a lot,
so I'm excited to get to know it.
So, how has social media impacted theway you design and develop training?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, for me, when I look at social media,it's something that just encompasses it.
It captures all of us in some way,shape or form, whether it is that
(02:33):
you're paying attention to LinkedIn oryou're paying attention to Facebook or
TikTok or Instagram or whatever socialplatform that it, that you're looking
at; and even, YouTube is a form of,you know, social media in a sense.
And, so, what I love to pull fromsocial media is, why are people
gravitating to that specific platform?
And it's different platformto platform, right?
(02:57):
what are they, what arethe topics of conversation?
What are people engaging with?
Why are they engaging with that content?
And, even, when it comes tolike video content, right?
How are they filming these things?
What kind of equipment are they using?
What kind of cuts, angles, backgrounds?
How are they speaking to theiraudience, you know, their viewers?
(03:21):
What is it that are drawing peoplein over and over and over again?
And, through that analysis, I'm ableto see what are some things that we
are talking about in learning anddevelopment that is, you know, good
practice and how do we maybe reframe it?
And, it really, for me socialmedia is challenging me to speak
(03:43):
differently, you know, speakin a shorter, more concise way.
Really drive home from the beginning,the value of what it is that you're
taking out of this learning contextinstead of burying the lead in
learning objectives that people don'treally understand how to comprehend.
Utilizing, instead, pin points thatthey have and really the why and the
(04:06):
why it's so important for them, thevalue they're gonna get out of whatever
the content is that I'm developing.
And, so, it's been really cool to almostretrain brain to think more like a social
media marketing agency as opposed tojust an instructional design agency.
That's amazing.
And, you know, it is true because thisnew generation, especially, is so short
(04:27):
span, attention span that it's like youhave to find a way to like gravitate
their attention within the 10 seconds.
I think that's what I learnedin my advertising classes.
You have 10 seconds to grabtheir attention or else they're
gonna just scroll right by you.
And you know, I think that'sreally, and you know, a lot of great
information that you provided us.
So would you give a littleexplanation as to, you know, how
your agency uses your social media?
I know you have, you'rereally big on TikTok.
(04:48):
Could you give us a little bitmore information about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, the way that we're utilizing it isn'tnecessarily that we're creating content
for that specific platform, but we'reborrowing and stealing what's working.
So, when it comes to TikTok, right,we're utilizing those really short
snippets to really challenge ourselveswhen we're creating these, you know,
(05:11):
in the moment of need resources, howcan we, if we're doing video, how
can we make them short and sweet?
It's also challenging us whenwe're having conversations with
our stakeholders and they're like,we want a 10 minute video on this.
And, I'm like, but do youneed a 10 minute video?
'cause look at the same contentand it's chopped up and like, you
know, one minute clips and thenthey string them all together.
(05:31):
And, the beauty of those one minuteclips is you can then take that clip
and send it out to someone who mayneed it as a coaching tool, right?
So ,you're going throughyour performance review.
Let's say you're talking with asalesperson and they need help on, you
know, making sure they're walking awaywith next steps with a potential customer.
Well, if you have a one minute video, youcan then send that to them and say, "Hey,
(05:55):
this is something you need to work on.
Here's a one minute clip video tohelp give you some of those steps."
and, the really like, cool thing aboutthat is that then they can start to
find other things in that same realmto, you know, start to increase their,
their retention on the things that youprobably taught them in training of, you
know, when they first went through theirfoundational training, but they're just
(06:17):
so overwhelmed it wasn't relevant inthe moment 'cause they weren't trying to
close next steps with a prospect; and, so,they, we need that reinforcement, right?
So we're looking at how are we, you know,having those conversations about what
truly is the need to be in this training.
How are we talking to our learners, right?
So, one of the customers that we'reworking with right now, it's a lot
(06:41):
of science and medical informationthat we're working with them with to
try to synthesize that and change thelanguage, that is more understandable
to like someone like me that isnot very sciencey and not very, you
know, as good in like, in school,but this is, is not my language.
It's not my thing.
So how can we break down that language tomake it un- understandable and digestible
(07:04):
by anyone that can pick up that content?
Because, if it feels like you are,if you're, it feels like you're
speaking above me or not, youknow, if you're speaking to me, I'm
gonna zone out immediately, right?
But if you're trying to bring me alongin the learning journey, utilizing more
accessible and friendly, con, you know,tone of voice and language, then I'm
(07:29):
more, I'm gonna be more interested and I'mgonna feel like, okay, this is actually
going to be a place for me as opposedto, I'm never gonna understand this.
I'm just gonna try to get the quizquestions right at the end, and then, you
know, present that I'm paying attention.
I think this shorter clips alsoallow you to really focus on what
you want the employee to do, right?
A lot of the time these longer videosis just filled in information, and it's
(07:51):
not really focused on actionable steps.
So, I think this shorter type ofvideos allow you to really hone in
on that action that you want youremployee to take when you were talking
about sending this video as theira performance review or something.
Yeah, and-
very focused, right?
This is what I need you to do.
Yeah, and, you know, what's also reallyinteresting is I do a lot of software
(08:12):
training, and the things that I'vebeen asked to explain in software
training are truly mind boggling.
Like, not too long ago, I was asked toexplain that when you hover over blue text
and it turns orange, it's a hyperlink.
And, I was like, we've all been usingthe internet for quite a long time.
I don't really need toexplain that, but, sure.
I mean, you're the client.
I'll put it in if you really want me to.
(08:34):
And, then, I pull up, and, solike in that same conversation.
I can pull up TikTok and say they're notexplaining that on TikTok, what they're,
they're not even showing you where theirmouse is, like moving across the screen,
they're showing you where the clickis, but they're showing you the click
in the place it's supposed to be, nothow you're getting there on the screen.
There are so many ways that we canshorten what it is that we're doing to
(08:54):
get the main points that across, andpeople will are still going to learn.
So, it's, you know, it relates notonly in soft skills and sharing those
skills, but you can also do that withsoftware training and things like that.
And, even, having those short clips,but also reframing what it is that
you're developing when you aredeveloping it and realizing that
maybe what the true need is, isn'tnecessarily, that foundational you
(09:19):
know, e-learning or something like that.
Maybe, taking that budget, and puttingit towards short videos and they
don't have to be TikTok side, right?
But the idea of a short video of justthat one specific topic and putting it
in a place that people can go to whenthey are in that system, that is a much
better use of your funds and that iswhat they're gonna actually be utilizing.
(09:40):
And, then, they don't have to go throughthat whole video to get to like, oh,
you have to click on the hyperlink.
You could just go to the video thatsays hyperlink, and then that's it.
That's it.
That's all we have to, yeah.
They just want that onelittle piece of the process.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's very hard going throughtraining and you have to watch these
like hour long videos, and you realizethat in that whole hour, really, you're
(10:01):
getting snippets that are more importantthat you're like, why didn't I just
get this part here and this part here?
So I think that's really, you know,utilizing the right methods to tell your
clients what you need to get out of it.
So, you know, I really appreciatethat you're taking those steps
to help clients with that.
So, kind of, looking at that, are thereany emerging trends in the social media
that they're kind of helping you reshapethe way you engage in, like social
(10:23):
learning and all that kind of stuff?
Yeah, I think podcasts aremaking an interesting comeback.
So, I thought that they kind of dippedand the podcast market actually became
quite saturated, for a while; and,frankly, the searchability was not great.
And, so, I think now actually withTikTok, it's actually increasing
podcasts because you're do, you'reseeing more videos at our podcast style.
(10:48):
And, so, what I think is so coolabout that is that you can have guest
expert interviews, and just it'sa more casual tone and we're just
sitting down just with a microphone.
We can utilize Zoom to have that.
And, it feels less like, okay, I haveto get the subject matter on camera.
I have to give them a script.
I have to make sure thattheir lighting is great.
(11:09):
You know, all of these things areperfect in order to, in order to, to
get what it is that I need, right?
If years ago, if I said to a customeror if they said to me, we need to do
video, I would think of all of thesedifferent things that I would need.
Now, seeing social media and seeingthat people are not always, you know,
in the best lighting or, you know,they've got a crazy background behind
(11:32):
them, or, you know, it's just a plainwall, you know, or it's just a zoom
that we've recorded, that's makingvideo way more accessible and realizing
that truly the most important piece isthe actual content and the learning,
and not all the bells and whistles.
What I think is even cooler is that thereare TikTok videos in which there'll be,
(11:53):
it's a character and it's telling a story.
Those are the ones that are also somemorable, but it's the same person
playing multiple characters and they'remaybe just putting on a jacket, or a wig,
or just being, doing something silly.
And, you don't have to get all ofthese actors and all of these people
in order to get the point acrossthat you're trying to get across.
So, I think that's really amazing.
(12:13):
Another thing that I'm noticing onsocial media a lot is truly that
people are looking for community,and they're looking for people and
they're looking for a place to belong.
And, they're, you know, they'rejust looking for their people.
So, having a place where people can goand do that is really quite helpful.
And, having a place where people can sharetheir wins and be recognized for, you
(12:34):
know, the work that they're doing, it'sthose little things that go a really long
way to increase belonging and, and promotea healthy culture in your organization.
No, yeah, I totally agree with that,and you know, that sense of culture
that you're talking about withthe inclusivity and that teamwork
is really, I think a big factor.
So, how do you feel that youknow, you as taking it from
(12:55):
your perspective and your team?
How do you create that sense ofculture and environment within the
social media, in the team setting?
Yeah, so, I a- again, we do a lot ofthose shout outs sort of things, and
we really take into account, you know,wins that, you know, and quick tips.
So, trying to share like if something, youknow, if we learn a, you know, new trick
(13:16):
or learn a new strategy, we're recordingit very quickly and almost building our
own little repository, so that when weonboard additional people, they're able to
just go and go through some of those clipsand learn those best practices instead
of maybe reading them in a long SOP thatthey're probably never going to read.
And, again, having a place inwhich that it's accessible, right?
And having that one place they're goingto for those tips and those tricks.
(13:39):
And, then, also just being able to sharemore about like, our culture through,
you know, we'll have different youknow, care like in our handbook and
stuff like that there's just differentgraphics, you know, I'll go and pick
like a social media graphic in order toshare what our brand values are and or
what a process is and things like that.
So, instead of just sitting therewith, you know, just like silly
(14:00):
smart art or something like that,or just a lot of text, just trying
to liven it up a little bit.
And having, and also that, like, havingthose things also become a really
great place for us to just share onour Slack channel and things like that.
And, it becomes part of that repository.
And, then for us, we're reallyprioritizing growth mindset
in the future as in, in 2024.
(14:22):
And, for us, for me, what thatmeans aside from, you know, like
the work that you do in building aculture, it's, I'm challenging my
entire team to really start thinkinglike a social media agency, right?
And re, like if I'm looking at learningobjectives, which I really don't wanna
look at that are gonna be in a module,let's rethink how we are stating them.
(14:43):
You know, let's rethink how we are howwe are doing that and pulling from that
influence, because it makes learning alittle bit more accessible when people
are able to really understand why it isthat you're saying what you're saying.
I like that.
It sounds like there's a lot ofsocial learning in your team.
You know, I just maybe know the queenof social learning, so I love to,
(15:04):
you know, pick her brain a little bitabout what works and what we can do.
No, definitely, and I think, youknow, that's something that's really
has changed with that social media.
Like, you said, it's that engagementand that driving, and I think that's
really where that community is built,is like everybody has this platform
of having their own platform forthemselves and now bringing it to the
work setting, it allows you to likeshare, like you said, quick times, like
(15:28):
you don't have to send an email anymore.
You can send a quick video orlike a quick update and just
be like, this is what I did.
Like, you know, I think it's, it's madeit faster for us to communicate and I
think it's easy to learn from becausenow you're not trying to figure out, oh,
X, Y, Z, it's, oh, it's straight there.
It's just straightforward.
So,
Yeah.
It's also, I would say, made itmore accessible to shine a light
on different employees, right?
(15:50):
So, before you would get tapped by,let's say your manager or a director
to shout you out at a company meeting,well, if you're not someone that maybe
has a relationship with those peopleor are in kind of that circle, then
you may not have ever gotten tapped.
Now, being able to share your ownwins, your tips, your tricks, yourself
(16:11):
in that sort of forum really makesit more accessible and more equitable
for people to, to show, you know,show that they're also rock stars.
It is, it's definitely bringingmore people to the table,
Yeah.
like it's opening up theseats for everybody to come.
And, I think nowadays one ofthe biggest thing for people
is looking for that belonging.
(16:32):
I feel like we havebecome so alienated from
Mm-Hmm.
with technology, which is a greatthing, and social media is a great
thing, but it can also be isolating.
So, this idea that you were talking about,about building communities, not just
at work, but you know, outside of work.
Yeah.
Everybody's just lookingto belong someplace.
I mean, truly employees thatbelong, they don't leave.
(16:54):
Exactly.
You know, unless they really have to, forsome reason, they're not going anywhere.
Yep.
So, seeing the success that you've hadwith this kind of new like evolution of
your learning and design development andall that, and moving to that more of a
social media marketing kind of philosophy.
What are some main points that youwould like stress to like anybody
in L and D or within the thinglooking to do these kind of things?
(17:16):
Like what's something that they shouldsteal, like or look at the most when
they're trying to create these platforms?
Yeah, absolutely.
First, I would say is just be an observerof everything, you know, and really take
into account, really pay attention, right?
So, like, for example, we mutecommercials in this household.
(17:37):
They're usually louder thanwhat I am watching, if I'm even
watching regular TV anymore, andit was just kind of a bothersome.
Now, realizing that there's a lot tolearn, I will unmute them to pay attention
to what it is that they're doing and justuse it as a learning opportunity, right?
And, really that can be said aboutanything, whether it's Netflix or
(17:57):
you know, going to your kids CubScouts meeting, you know, there's
so many things that you learnedabout everywhere that you're going.
Just being that observant is reallyjust an educational opportunity, right?
So really paying attentionis number one most important.
Second is really working onreframing how they're stating
what it is that they're stating.
(18:18):
You know, an ad doesn't start with,"welcome to this pharmaceutical, this
ad for this pharmaceutical drug".
No, it starts with, are youworried about, I don't know,
inconsonance or something like that?
I know.
Are you worried about, know, whateverailment that you're worried about, right?
Do you not wanna be embarrassed about,you know, having to go to the bathroom,
(18:42):
you know, in the middle of a party?
Things that we've actually all felt right?
So like, take from that, like,and that stops us in our track
and is like, you know what?
I felt that way.
I want to pay attention to thisad and maybe, and then I'm gonna
go and talk to my doctor about it.
And, so I think thinking like that,so instead of saying something like,
"welcome to Salesforce training", right?
(19:05):
Talk about, you know, theimportance of it, right?
What it is that they're goingto learn from the beginning.
And just have it, you know, treat it trulylike a hook, you know, you've got three,
I think in eLearn you have more, youknow, you've got like 10 to 15 seconds to
hook someone in, but give them that hook.
Why is it they're gonnawanna pay attention?
(19:26):
And, just that changing that toneof voice will get people to stop,
because we're all really used to beingtalked to in an eLearn and it varies.
It's almost like all voiceovers,kind of all sounds the same
when it comes to an eLearn.
Yes, there's different artists, butsometimes it feel like they all still
sound the same, so we tune it outbecause we've heard it so many times.
(19:47):
But having those differenttypes of conversation, really
kind or tones really does help.
And then, I think also knowing that thisis going to be a huge shift, if you wanna
start doing this in your organization.
It is gonna be very differentthan what people learned.
If they went through instructionaldesign, you know, school or get it in
their master's or any sort of training.
It's also very different than whatthey've normally done day in and day out.
(20:10):
And it'll also be a challenge forsome senior leaders to buy in.
So, a lot of people say thatthey're looking towards the
future, but they're not.
Right?
And if we look at who's trulyentering into our workforce, this
is how they've been learning.
This is how they're currently,they're not going to Google, right?
They're going to TikTok to search.
(20:31):
Heck, I need to know how to packa wide brim hat on a vacation.
I went to TikTok and searched it.
And so, these are things thatour next generation is doing.
And so, we need to start meetingour people where they're at.
And if that's where they're at, let'sjust try it and just know that it's gonna
take you some time, but you can get there.
(20:51):
You know, try something small.
I think people to do these biggreat things, and try to, like
how we say, eat the elephant.
We're not, don't try to eat the elephant.
Just eat one little piece at atime, show people how it can work.
Just do something internal for yourteam, you know, or just do something
small and show people how it can bedone, and then you can expand from there.
(21:14):
Yeah.
You know, we're talking aboutthe new generation, but I
think the older generationsare tired too, and they're just
Yeah.
ready for the change.
Heck yeah.
How many times that you start thosetrainings and it's like, "welcome,"
and you're like, here we go again.
Oh, every time I was justat my kid's soccer game.
They were saying that.
Yes.
In those 10 seconds, 15 secondsis so important to build
(21:37):
that, you know, investment...
yeah.
from the person that's watching it,and if you miss that opportunity, that
whole training is just gonna like gone.
Well, you know, in social media,what you're doing a lot of times
building like know and trust,and you still have to do that.
You know, and we don't do thatas a a, you know, an L and D.
We don't build like know and trusts.
We just assume that, you know, that we'rethe experts and you have to pay attention.
(21:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, and like you have to behere because this is just a
training that you have to do.
And, we go into that training.
Yeah.
You know, we create that training knowingthat they're just gonna have to do it,
and there's so many bad trainings out.
So many, I know, I was, when at thekids' soccer game, one of the dads
asked like, oh, what are you doing?
And, I told him what I did and he'slike, wait, so you make the training
that I cannot fast forward through, andI was like, well, I didn't make that
(22:23):
training, but I have, yeah, I said.
He's like, can you stop doing that?
And I was like, well, it'snot my request, it's at the
client's request, but I'm trying.
No.
Yeah, and, I mean, but that'sthe thing like you said, it's
about getting your money's worth.
If you're gonna make a trainingand you're gonna just have people
not engage in it, then what's thepoint of spending the money on that?
(22:43):
Like you want something thatthey're gonna get something out of.
So, I think that's something that'sreally important, and like you said, you
want to hook those people, your client'straining or attendees in and get them
to like be part of the conversation.
It's about making the conversation,rather than just sitting there
listening to the conversation.
So I think that's really great.
Yeah, I mean if you think about it,you have this like compliance trainings
(23:06):
which are like super boring sometimes.
And, people just, a lot of the timethey do compliance training, because
they get flagged something wentwrong, and then they create these
trainings that are like super boring.
The employees are not paying attentionand the next year they get flagged again.
Yeah.
It's, it's just another training.
Like, here you go, let's checkthis off so we can keep working.
It doesn't matter as long as we got this.
(23:26):
And, it's just like spendingmoney year after year on the
same training, but no one's doinganything to change the training.
So, the employees actually learnwhat they need to learn and
they're like invested in it.
Well, they're not investing,like, so I talk all the time
about cybersecurity training.
My dream is to dress up like a, a hackerin all black record TikTok style videos
(23:47):
about the importance of cybersecurity.
And, I just said, you know,yesterday at a conference I was
like, you know, instead of, youknow, welcome to cybersecurity 1 0 1.
Starting the conversation with, "haveyou ever been cur, been nervous about
opening up that email and clickingon that link and worried that you're
gonna be the one that brings downthe entire company's firewall?
(24:10):
Well, this is why youwanna pay attention, right?
Because we've all been there.
I've, you know, we've all openedup an email that I'm like, this
looks legit, but like, is it not?
You know what I mean?
And, it happens.
And honestly, there's no reason whythose trainings shouldn't be slightly
refreshed every few years, because youcan pull actual stories of asked employees
protecting the guilty, of course.
(24:32):
And, how they accidentally didthings that weren't compliant, right?
Or maybe consciously, but pullingthose actual real stories.
Because here's the other thing,there'll be training out there where
the examples are so not realisticthat it's hard to connect with them.
So, like for example, my husband wastelling me about his sexual harassment
(24:53):
training he has to take every single year.
And, he tells me that he laughsthrough some of the examples
'cause it's just so outrageous.
And then, he told me about it and Iwas like, it's not even, it's like, I
guess, yeah, it's like funny if I waslike watching it, but it's just, it's
sad for me as a woman, who has beensexually harassed, to know that they're
(25:16):
not even taking it seriously to put inrealistic like things that are actually
sexual harassment, that people maybe,it maybe blurs the line for them,
because they're not, they don't care.
They're not paying attention.
So, it's just taking thattime and taking it seriously.
And, unfortunately, because we're alwayssaying training is the answer, you
know, we have to have more training.
(25:36):
Our training department is never ableto get to doing that, this type of work.
So, we do like, okay, that compliancetraining is done, we're just gonna
keep it on loop and just send it out.
And, as long as there's no majorpolicy change, we're good, because
they're too busy doing other stuff thatprobably is quite frankly meaningless.
Yeah, and, and you know, makingpeople uncom- uncomfortable sometimes
(25:56):
it's the investment that we need.
Yes, exactly.
Those people.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, I've been told, and youknow, when we've created some,
some scenarios, they're like, oh,that's gonna be a little jarring.
And I'm like, that's what you want.
That's what you want.
That's how you, you wantpeople to react to that.
Yeah.
The reaction's important.
I was like, are you jarred,also, when you watch tv?
That is what, that's what you wanted.
(26:16):
There's a reason they don't, theydon't smooth it over on TV if
they wanna make an impact, right?
They don't gloss over the issue ifthat's what they want you to learn.
So, we need to be doing that same thing.
I agree.
That storytelling isso important and real.
Oh my critical
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think that's somethingthat, like you said, a lot of people
aren't doing, because they don't knowhow to, or they don't wanna make it
(26:39):
look bad, but at the same time, itwon't look bad as long as the message
is getting across the right way.
And, I think that's something that hasto change in the settings in order for
there to be an effective change and aneffective learning environment because
you learn through realistic experiences.
You don't learn from just hearing anexample that was made up by somebody
who just came up with an idea.
No, you have to tell somethingthat's real, a real story.
(27:00):
And, you know, there's a lot of, justlike you said, like in the television,
there's so much real content outthere that it really appeals to that
emotion, whether it's good or bad.
You know, if it's a happy emotionor if it's a sad emotion, or
if it's just an angry emotion.
You wanna get that reactionoutta your clients.
So I think that's really important.
Absolutely.
The more you know, people will rememberstories when they're impactful and
(27:20):
we'll remember stories where there'ssome sort of emotion tied to it.
And, so, those are critical.
That's great.
So, kind of, like goinginto that storytelling.
So, how has like storytellingbeen something that like
you've done and like implement?
Like, I know you were talkingabout doing the thing for the
cybersecurity, like that so.
How have you done that in your socialmedia settings and like your stuff?
(27:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, we're talking to our customersabout, you know, doing those
sort of like examples, right?
And then, telling them, you know,reminding them they don't have to have
multiple people, you can, but we show themhow you can, you know, easily edit, so
that you like, look like you're talkingto yourself or whatever the case may be.
You're looking to someone else, but,you know, you're cutting the clips.
And so, what we're doing is we'retalking about what are these like,
(28:05):
quick, short stories that we could tell.
And, really simple framework is there'sa hero and there's a guide, right?
So, for example, you know, you have newhire training; and your hero is your new
hire and the guide could be, you know,their mentor in the organization, right?
And, that helps to guidethem through onboarding.
So, imagine having that story toldand you're kind of helping, you know,
(28:26):
whoever this Johnny new hire is getto his first day, get through his
first day or first week of work.
And, those sorts of stories are, arereally helpful, because you get to
actually start to like invest, right?
You invest in seeingthem, seeing them grow.
We're talking a lot about justthe overall arcs of pieces, right?
So, instead of just having one sort of,you know, conversation or one sort of
(28:50):
training modules, how can we expand thisinto kind of like an episodic sort of
situation where we have episodes, right?
and, we treat it as such.
And, you can do little cool things, evenif you're in something like articulate
storyline, like make a next button.
I saw someone posted this on, on YouTube.
You can make the next button looklike the next episode button where it
(29:12):
fills up in white, like on Netflix.
You can do things like thatwhere people can feel like
they're watching a TV series.
I was just on a, on a call withsomeone who created a tv sort of
series and just posted yesterdayabout, a philanthropist in Dallas, who
want, they wanted to get more 13 to17-year-old girls interested in STEM.
(29:33):
And so, they created a TV show thatactually ended up winning an Emmy, right?
So they're, what they're doingis they're telling stories.
They're compelling people.
They're showing the arcs.
They're showing all the pieces ofall the sides and all the facets
of what it is that you're learning.
And, they're treating learningas three dimensional, right.
(29:53):
It's not just one note or one dimensional.
There's different facets.
So, being able to talk about whatis the arc for your learner as well.
So, when they come in and they'restarting to pay attention, they're
starting to watch, they're starting toconsume your training, they're here,
but where do we want them to get to andwhat are the different, the different
(30:17):
scenes in between in order to get there.
The different identities that they'regonna end up having in between.
And, how do we showcasethat and what's that?
You know, like I saying, characterarc that we can take them through.
I think that's so cool.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think this,it's innovative, right?
If you think about it, and it's, again,it goes back to that not everybody coming
(30:40):
in is gonna be in the same place, right?
Talking about onboarding and new hires.
Mm-Hmm.
Not everybody is gonna have thesame knowledge, and if you have this
ability create these episodes, youdon't have to watch the whole series
to get to where you're going, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
It creates an equitable space whereno matter what place you are in your
career, in your experience, wherever youare, you are gonna have a place to go.
(31:04):
And, whether you have tostart the beginning of the
show or on the last episode.
Yeah.
Everybody is like on the same level.
It's a way to personalize learningwithout having to personalize
for every single person.
For every single person.
Yeah, people take personalizationalmost too literally at times; and it's
like if you have multiple options, youdon't force everybody to go through
(31:24):
the whole thing and they're ableto go in and pick where they start.
Then, I think, you know, there's theop the opportunity for you to, you
know, give people that personalization.
And, I think talking more about thedifferent char, like the character
arc actually takes your learnerpersona and makes it evolve, right?
(31:46):
Because that learner persona that you're,that you're creating from, that's a
great start, but you need to have thatlearner persona for the entire journey.
So, we often talk about developingit, like who's your learner?
And what we're not talking about is wheredo we want your learner to end up and what
is that aspirational persona for them?
And so if you can help to develop that, itactually helps you create content and know
(32:07):
that journey that they're gonna go on.
Definitely.
I think, yeah, that journey is soimportant, because, like you said,
it's about relatability and I thinkthat's where you really appeal is when
people can relate to the experience andthen find it useful to them without,
with any point where they start.
So, I think that's really interesting.
So, kind of moving on into, like lookingat the future, what are, you know, what
(32:30):
are you seeing for the future of this?
Like how are you seeing new thingsevolving and how's social media gonna be
and very impactful and what is changing?
Yeah.
So, you know, one of the things thatI, uh, was reading in a book by Alex
Harmozi, recently, was it's not thatpeople's attention spans are getting
(32:50):
shorter, we just have higher standards.
And, I've been like shoutingthat for quite some time.
Like our attention spans, likeI can pay attention to an hour
long Real Housewives episode whenno one is going to distract me.
Not even my children, you know, likeI am invested in Miami right now.
So, people can pay attention.
(33:10):
They just have standards as to whatthey're going to pay attention to.
And so, it's gonna actually force us tobe, to learn to be better, as developers
and to have higher standards for thequality that we're putting there.
You know, and over time, especially aswe have tools that people can go and
(33:30):
develop, like these AI tools, people canfeel like they can just go and develop.
It, it's gonna make that, you know, thosesorts of roles are gonna almost go away.
You know, that it's nolonger gonna be your shtick.
You've gotta bring, like, whatis it that's so special about
you that you're gonna bring.
Well, it's that, you know, thatquality, and just being able to
really relate with your audience.
I think as we're looking towardsthe future, it's more about
(33:53):
meeting people where they're at.
You know, we're in a criticaltime in our organizations.
We have so many generationsin the workforce and people
are all at different places.
And even, if, you know, we're always,this is always going to be, we're gonna
have different people in different places.
And so, we have to be able to meetthem where they're at; and I think the
ability to shift and innovate quickly.
(34:15):
Oftentimes, customers will come tome to let go and make changes; and,
I'm like, that's gonna take a while.
Well, are there ways that we canget around, creating content in
a different way where we're ableto update and adapt quickly.
And, that's going to be quite imperative.
So, utilizing different assets likethese TikTok videos allow you to go
(34:35):
and like replace quite quickly; and theidea of repurposing, so something that
we do a lot on our marketing side isrepurpose content; and, I think that
is critical for us to start doing;and to maximize your training budget.
So, if you're gonna, you know, ifyou have to have that foundational
eLearn, if you will then you can alsorepurpose it by figuring out how you
(34:59):
can break them up into shorter clips.
If you have a long webinar or alunch and learn, breaking it up into
clips to then use it as marketingmaterials to get people to watch
the longer form content, especiallycontent that is not required, right?
Optional.
You'll have a lot of time for that, right?
We're not giving people time in their dayto do learning, but I will make time in
(35:22):
my day if I see clips of it and I'm like,oh, that actually looks like something
that I really wanna know more about.
It relates to me.
It's very, you know,could be very interesting.
Now, that I've seen a couple of clips.
I don't have to in, I didn'thave to invest the hour.
I either got what I needed out of afew clips, or I've seen a few clips.
Now, I want to invest thathour to pay attention.
(35:44):
And, so I think that's gonna besomething that we're gonna have to
start looking at; and I hope thatpeople start doing more and realizing
you actually can get more budget.
You know, you can stretch yourbudget when you do things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, employees higher standards.
Mm-Hmm.
Right?
So, it's gonna be interesting to seethat shift, especially, because a lot
(36:04):
of the time it's like, oh, we're doingthis because this is the way it's
always been and, you know, it's working.
Mm-Hmm.
Division works until now, but it'snot really working; and, you know,
with social media, the internet,like nothing stays hidden anymore.
So, if someone has something to sayabout the way that your training is
(36:26):
going, about the way that you treat youremployees, it's gonna be in the internet.
Very quickly.
Well,
People have to to step up.
They're going to have to step up, andthey're gonna have to do what their
employees want, because guess what?
They're gonna go online,they're gonna bash your company,
and then you're recruiting.
I- I just yesterday, so yesterday when Iwas at the conference, I got an Instagram
reel from one of my good friends.
(36:47):
It was someone that we both knewgrowing up, and he has a training
company not in our space at all.
He trains law enforcement agentsand this was a training from two
years ago where there is some veryproblematic language at this conference,
and now it is all over the news.
Yeah.
You know, so the, you know,a lot of things that we know,
(37:07):
nothing is private anymore.
So, we need to be, you know, rethinkingwhat it's that we're doing, right?
And, people will go on TikTok and say,don't go and work there because, you
know, they're not truly invested in youas an employee; although, their website
says that they do that they are, truly,they're not actually invested in us.
(37:28):
So that should, you know, it, it sucksfor the companies, but it's great for,
you know, looking for the employee.
Heck yeah.
As an employer.
I'm tired of this like I'm done, you know?
Uh, so props to, you know,the newer generations
Yeah.
I love it.
Their B.
S.
meter is, is yeah, they could readBS really quickly and you know what?
(37:51):
They've, they enact change.
You know, I work a lot with Gen Z throughmy, through my volunteer with my sorority,
and so I'm constantly working with 18to 22 year olds, and I've literally
seen them change policies that have beenin, you know, part of our institution
for, since the dawn of time, right?
Literally since 1873.
(38:13):
And, I've seen them change those policies,and I've seen them, you know, stand up
for each other, and champion each other.
And so, I think it's just, they'regonna be the ones that change the world.
It is such a pleasure to watchand I'm always in awe of them.
So yeah, they're gonnachallenge us to, to be better.
I agree.
(38:33):
I think, I think Gen Z's thedefinition of, just because it
is doesn't mean it should be.
Mm-Hmm.
And, we're gonna do something about it.
Yeah.
They are so, "Yay, Diego!"
Yes.
I, I love it.
Give me a good Gen Z term.
What's a good, what's a good Gen Z word?
(38:53):
You have like a slangphrase that you all use.
I only know one.
What's the one that you know?
Maybe
I've heard of Cheugy.
I learned it from a TikTok.
Do you know that one?
No?
Okay, so all right.
Well, then maybe I'mcooler than you Diego.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so excited.
I forget what it was.
I don't know.
(39:14):
I think it's like I forget, like,kind of, like making fun of like,
being like so millennial, or, like, Idon't know, like, it's like, it's like
being too much or something like that.
I learned it from a TikTok of this Cubangirl I follow, and so I was like, oh, I
feel like cool, because I know one phrase.
But, yeah, so I'm gonna, I wouldlike a dictionary 'cause I feel like
sometimes they say stuff and I'mlike, I don't know what that is, but I
(39:37):
wanna be just as cool as you all are.
I feel like our slang honestlycomes from Tiktoks and social media.
Like, people just say randomstuff and then you just pick
up on it and it, it catches on.
Yeah, that wildfire that justgoes and spreads everywhere.
You're like, where dowe even start from this?
And, you're like, oh,it came from like this.
And, you're like, why did weever pick up this language?
But, I mean, you know, that'swhat I mean it's like you're so
(39:58):
much, social media influences usso much, and it's so impactful.
Like, it's really revolutionizedthe Gen Z culture.
Like that's, the Gen Z cultureis built around social media.
Like everything we do, everything we want.
That's why I say I feel like social mediafor us is why we create change, because
we're constantly seeing it every daythat we're like, well, we have a voice.
We can use our voice, which I don'tthink the generations before had
(40:20):
that platform to use their voice.
And, because social media's so vast,that's the platform that you can use your
voice and have, whether it's good or bad,you're gonna put it out there and not
give any care about what everyone elsesays, because it's your platform to use
your voice and nobody can say about it.
So.
Oh damn.
Drop that mic.
Yeah, that's the socialmedia clip for this episode.
Screw everything I said.
(40:42):
That's it right there.
I love that.
And I, yeah, I a thousandpercent agree with you.
And, and interestingly enough, peoplewill ask me when I speak about, you know,
TikTok and stuff, they're like, well, howdo we get people to wanna be on camera?
And, I was like, well, there youcould do on-camera things, right?
So, you don't always have to be on camera.
You can choose to, you know,content creators I think would be
a great new type of role, right?
(41:05):
For each department.
They have, like, a little miniinfluencer that can work with your
recruiting departments, get people in.
It could be really cool.
And, you also have a whole generation thatare used to having a camera stuck in their
face since the minute their eyes opened.
So, they're not shy.
Yeah.
If they don't have it now,they want to have it because
that's, that's like a thing.
Yeah, exactly.
(41:26):
That's true.
Did y'all, have y'all seen the DuolingoOwl where he's doing all the tiktoks now?
They just put the mascot in.
They put one of their employees andlike they made a whole like a mascot
outfit and now he goes around theentire agency and just makes Tiktoks.
That's literally his onlyjob is to make Tiktoks.
And then, they put it out there and that'show they've been getting content and
getting a lot of growth for the business.
So, it's something a lot of businessesare seeing a need for and I think
(41:48):
it is gonna change the way thelandscape of how businesses function.
And, I think with this going intotraining, because you're appealing to this
new generation coming into the workplace,it is gonna be something that's impactful.
And like you said, it's gonna changea lot, but I think, eventually, once
people get on board, it's gonna be theright change to get those old habits
(42:08):
that probably weren't the most effectiveout of the way and put something
that's gonna really push the company togreater needs and greater expectations.
Like you said, that raising thatstandard, because that's all what
it's about is raising the standardfor everyone in the company.
Yeah, and it's not aboutreplacing anything, right?
You're not getting rid of stuff.
You know, some things that work great,let's not get rid of things, you know?
(42:28):
But, it's just about challenging theway that we're coming at the language,
how we're coming at the experience asa whole; and when you're doing that,
you're still, you're still holding onand retaining the legacy of it, right?
And all the good thingsand the fundamentals.
And now, we're just, you know,making it more relevant; and
just a little bit better.
And, I think too, you know, wewe're talking a lot about Gen Z
(42:51):
and they're easy to, to kind ofpull on, but all the generations
are really digging into Instagramreels and TikTok and YouTube shorts.
You know, my dad is constantlysending me stuff on Instagram,
or he's looking up recipes now,and he is definitely not Gen Z.
So I, you know, this is notjust like a generational thing.
People are all catching on, becausethey realize they can learn in these
(43:15):
short clip in these short bits orjust go and learn to make that, you
know, French onion soup, and just, youknow, capture what they need, and then
go on and do what they need to do.
Definitely.
Yeah, I know.
My mom sends me that all the time too.
She's like, here's a clip.
And, I'm like, and the thing is,with the social media, it's- now,
even like TikTok, there's so manydifferent forms of those content.
Like it can be like just images, or nowyou have like, you know, the 30 second
(43:38):
clips, or now it can be three minutes.
So, you know, it's so ever evolvingthat it's so interesting to see
how it's like forming arounddifferent people and appealing to
the different target audiences.
Yeah, and then you see the communitiesform around influencers, right?
So, people start to connect in thecomments and then you kind of start
to see these little communitiesbuild; and it is a quite a community
(44:00):
builder 'cause people are makinggenuine connection through social.
Yeah, and it's like constant.
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm
Social media is likeconstant social learning.
You're, you're just the whole time,everything that you're consuming and
like we become this like amalgamationof things that other people do.
Yeah.
We just go from it all the time.
(44:21):
Everything that we do, the waythat we make our coffee, the
way that we, it doesn't matter.
Nowadays, nowadays, it's justsomething, "oh, I saw this on".
That's, that's the beginningof so many sentences.
So many.
I saw it on TikTok.
Yes.
I saw this on Instagram.
I, or like you're talking to someone andthey're telling you about your situation.
You're like, oh, I saw a memeabout this the other day.
Mm-Hmm.
(44:41):
Right.
It's like constant.
Those references that arecoming at you all the time.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, I think that's just, that's suchan important thing is that you also can
curate, like if you wanna pay attention towhat's going on, you can curate your feed.
You know, so stop paying attentionto, I don't know, the dancing videos
and start searching for things like,you know, marketing tips or, you know,
(45:04):
instructional design tips, right?
Leadership tips.
That is really truly where the,the content is going right?
How to videos, all of that.
You can, right?
I mean, that is what, don't even get me.
This is like you, I will get on asoapbox on this, but our learning
management systems have it all wrong.
They're focused about what you like,and what you like, and what I like as
(45:27):
opposed, and like trying to share thatlike with all of us, as opposed to
creating a personalized experience for me.
So, realizing that I liked this pieceof content, I took it and showing me
more content that would be related.
That's what they need to be focusedon, is an interest-based algorithm
as opposed to a social graph.
(45:48):
Right?
And, at the same time...
it's that algorithm.
Mm-Hmm.
. Right.
At the same time, allowing you tofind that community that is interested
in the same things that you are.
Exactly.
Those people that are liking andare commenting on those things are
probably people that you're gonnahave something in common with.
That's right.
If you wanna look for a mentor, this ishow you can look for a mentor, you know?
Exactly.
So, there's a lot to be also done withour own, social, our learning management
(46:15):
systems to start pulling in from social.
Unfortunately, they'rejust so slow to change.
Right, definitely.
And, it's gonna continue to evolvewhether you either get on the train
or you just let it leave you behind.
That's how it's gonna be.
I think, like you said, itjust comes down to you wanting
to be adapting to the change.
You don't have to fully go full forcein it, but at least be open to the
(46:36):
adaptations and see how it plays out.
That's the key for most employers andemployees is how do I be a part of it?
because it's going to happenwhether you like it or not.
Like, there's no stopping the evolution.
And, I think, you know, socialmedia is just continuing to grow new
platform to put out every single day.
And, you know, it's,that's just how it is.
I know I wanna create my own.
(46:57):
I was telling Nicole that yesterdayon the drive to New York City, but
that's gonna, it's a lot of capital.
I, I I have a new business now.
I can't do all of that, butI eventually wanna create a,
social media platform one day.
That's what happens whenyou're an entrepreneur.
Your brain is always thinking oflike the next thing all the time.
Always.
(47:17):
What, what's, what can I, like, Igot this now, like what's my next?
Yep.
Yep.
What's my next adventure?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, literally.
So yeah, I could, I feel you.
I feel you.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much Vanessa,for being here today with us.
We really appreciate it and thankyou for providing our viewers and
listeners with so much great content.
Like it was really insightful.
Yeah, of course.
(47:38):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was so lovely to getto chat with you all.
Yes.
So if, our listeners want tolearn more about your work, your
agency, and, you know, anythingelse, where can they find you?
Yeah, so you, the best place tofind me is on LinkedIn Vanessa
Alzate and follow Anchored Training.
You can follow us on Instagram, andTikTok, and YouTube, and also Kirkpatrick
(47:59):
Partners, the newest company that I have.
Perfect.
Sounds good.
Well, thank you again and lab mates.
We will see you next time on anotherepisode of the Social Learning Lab.
Bye everyone.
Bye.
Isn't it amazing how we can takescrolling through our feed into a
full blown educational experience?
Let's take a quick moment to retweet someof the main takeaways from this episode.
First, adopt a marketing mindset, usingsocial media as a source of inspiration
(48:23):
by borrowing successful strategiesfrom different platforms to enhance the
creation of in the moment resources.
Second, short and sweet content isthe most effective way to engage
and communicate with the audience.
Thus, maximizing your budget.
Third, meet the learner at where they are.
Learners have higher standardsto what captures their attention.
Repurposing and building adaptable contentthat can feel specialized will ensure they
(48:46):
get what they need out of their training.
Fourth, similar to community seekingon social media, create a space
for recognizing wins and sharingquick tips to foster a positive
learning culture within your team.
Finally, embrace a growth mindset.
Don't be afraid to try thesestrategies in your work.
Encourage your team to think inan innovative and creative way.
Remember, the next time someone saysyou spend too much time on social media,
(49:09):
just tell them you're attending a masterclass in 21st century instruction.
Now, it's your turn.
For your experiment, it's time to puton your social media thinking cap.
Choose one specific platform to useas a guide and create a short form
content to teach your viewers, whetherit's turning a TikTok trend into a
lesson on how to solve a tech issue,or creating an Instagram graphic on
Canva with some of the best practices.
(49:30):
The possibilities are endless.
Go forth and unleash yourcreativity on the digital canvas.
You can find the full experiment briefin the show notes or in the Social
Learning Lab community on Facebook.
In the community, you can also shareyour creations, get feedback and insight
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leavea review, like, subscribe, or share so
(49:51):
we can continue to build a supportivegroup of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
How many times have you heard someonesay, "I saw this on Instagram",
or "I learned this on TikTok."
Well, that is because social mediais not just a virtual hangout,
rather the ultimate classroom wherelikes, shares, and comments are
the currency of social learning.
Hi lab mates!
Welcome to The Social Learning Lab, apodclass about social learning at work.
In today's episode, we sit down with thepresident and CEO of Kirkpatrick Partners
(00:22):
and founder of Anchored Training, VanessaAlzate, to discuss how social media
acts as a virtual classroom, where ideasspread like wildfire and new perspectives
emerge in the blink of an eye.
Hi lab mates.
Welcome back to the Social Learning Lab.
I'm Diego.
Joined by our other co-host Rocio.
We have a very exciting topicthat we'll be discussing today
with our very special guest.
(00:42):
Lab mates, meet Vanessa Alzate.
She is the president and CEO ofKirkpatrick Partners and founder
and CEO of Anchored Training, acustom training development agency.
She received a BA in both communicationsand political science from Rutgers
University and an MS in corporateand organizational communication
from Northeastern University.
For almost 15 years, Vanessa has consultedwith many mid large organizations and
(01:05):
industries ranging from government,pharmaceutical sales, to fashion,
in an effort to develop trainingstrategies tailored to each individual
organization, team, and learner.
Vanessa is a dynamic educator inthe classroom and works to bring the
classroom experience to life onlinevia webinar training and e-learning.
Throughout her career, Vanessa hasexcelled in assisting companies
and individuals to expand theirindustry knowledge through innovative
(01:27):
e-learning and classroom curriculum,and encourages her clients to look
around them to find inspiration andstrategies to engage their learners.
She gives back to the learning communityas a speaker for the Association for
Talent Development, Training Magazine,and the Learning Guild, Vanessa's
committed to helping everyone becomethe best version of themselves.
She's an advocate for empoweringwomen and increasing belonging.
(01:49):
Vanessa, thank you somuch for being here today.
We are super excited to have you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so glad to finally be on the podcast.
It's been great to listenin on the first season.
Thank you.
Well, we appreciate you being one ofour viewers and we're super excited
now to have you as one of our guests.
So, let's get into it.
So we are gonna go into alittle bit of a different topic.
(02:10):
We're gonna be talking about socialmedia, which I really enjoy a lot,
so I'm excited to get to know it.
So, how has social media impacted theway you design and develop training?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, for me, when I look at social media,it's something that just encompasses it.
It captures all of us in some way,shape or form, whether it is that
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you're paying attention to LinkedIn oryou're paying attention to Facebook or
TikTok or Instagram or whatever socialplatform that it, that you're looking
at; and even, YouTube is a form of,you know, social media in a sense.
And, so, what I love to pull fromsocial media is, why are people
gravitating to that specific platform?
And it's different platformto platform, right?
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what are they, what arethe topics of conversation?
What are people engaging with?
Why are they engaging with that content?
And, even, when it comes tolike video content, right?
How are they filming these things?
What kind of equipment are they using?
What kind of cuts, angles, backgrounds?
How are they speaking to theiraudience, you know, their viewers?
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What is it that are drawing peoplein over and over and over again?
And, through that analysis, I'm ableto see what are some things that we
are talking about in learning anddevelopment that is, you know, good
practice and how do we maybe reframe it?
And, it really, for me socialmedia is challenging me to speak
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differently, you know, speakin a shorter, more concise way.
Really drive home from the beginning,the value of what it is that you're
taking out of this learning contextinstead of burying the lead in
learning objectives that people don'treally understand how to comprehend.
Utilizing, instead, pin points thatthey have and really the why and the
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why it's so important for them, thevalue they're gonna get out of whatever
the content is that I'm developing.
And, so, it's been really cool to almostretrain brain to think more like a social
media marketing agency as opposed tojust an instructional design agency.
That's amazing.
And, you know, it is true because thisnew generation, especially, is so short
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span, attention span that it's like youhave to find a way to like gravitate
their attention within the 10 seconds.
I think that's what I learnedin my advertising classes.
You have 10 seconds to grabtheir attention or else they're
gonna just scroll right by you.
And you know, I think that'sreally, and you know, a lot of great
information that you provided us.
So would you give a littleexplanation as to, you know, how
your agency uses your social media?
I know you have, you'rereally big on TikTok.
(04:48):
Could you give us a little bitmore information about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, the way that we're utilizing it isn'tnecessarily that we're creating content
for that specific platform, but we'reborrowing and stealing what's working.
So, when it comes to TikTok, right,we're utilizing those really short
snippets to really challenge ourselveswhen we're creating these, you know,
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in the moment of need resources, howcan we, if we're doing video, how
can we make them short and sweet?
It's also challenging us whenwe're having conversations with
our stakeholders and they're like,we want a 10 minute video on this.
And, I'm like, but do youneed a 10 minute video?
'cause look at the same contentand it's chopped up and like, you
know, one minute clips and thenthey string them all together.
(05:31):
And, the beauty of those one minuteclips is you can then take that clip
and send it out to someone who mayneed it as a coaching tool, right?
So ,you're going throughyour performance review.
Let's say you're talking with asalesperson and they need help on, you
know, making sure they're walking awaywith next steps with a potential customer.
Well, if you have a one minute video, youcan then send that to them and say, "Hey,
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this is something you need to work on.
Here's a one minute clip video tohelp give you some of those steps."
and, the really like, cool thing aboutthat is that then they can start to
find other things in that same realmto, you know, start to increase their,
their retention on the things that youprobably taught them in training of, you
know, when they first went through theirfoundational training, but they're just
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so overwhelmed it wasn't relevant inthe moment 'cause they weren't trying to
close next steps with a prospect; and, so,they, we need that reinforcement, right?
So we're looking at how are we, you know,having those conversations about what
truly is the need to be in this training.
How are we talking to our learners, right?
So, one of the customers that we'reworking with right now, it's a lot
(06:41):
of science and medical informationthat we're working with them with to
try to synthesize that and change thelanguage, that is more understandable
to like someone like me that isnot very sciencey and not very, you
know, as good in like, in school,but this is, is not my language.
It's not my thing.
So how can we break down that language tomake it un- understandable and digestible
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by anyone that can pick up that content?
Because, if it feels like you are,if you're, it feels like you're
speaking above me or not, youknow, if you're speaking to me, I'm
gonna zone out immediately, right?
But if you're trying to bring me alongin the learning journey, utilizing more
accessible and friendly, con, you know,tone of voice and language, then I'm
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more, I'm gonna be more interested and I'mgonna feel like, okay, this is actually
going to be a place for me as opposedto, I'm never gonna understand this.
I'm just gonna try to get the quizquestions right at the end, and then, you
know, present that I'm paying attention.
I think this shorter clips alsoallow you to really focus on what
you want the employee to do, right?
A lot of the time these longer videosis just filled in information, and it's
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not really focused on actionable steps.
So, I think this shorter type ofvideos allow you to really hone in
on that action that you want youremployee to take when you were talking
about sending this video as theira performance review or something.
Yeah, and-
very focused, right?
This is what I need you to do.
Yeah, and, you know, what's also reallyinteresting is I do a lot of software
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training, and the things that I'vebeen asked to explain in software
training are truly mind boggling.
Like, not too long ago, I was asked toexplain that when you hover over blue text
and it turns orange, it's a hyperlink.
And, I was like, we've all been usingthe internet for quite a long time.
I don't really need toexplain that, but, sure.
I mean, you're the client.
I'll put it in if you really want me to.
(08:34):
And, then, I pull up, and, solike in that same conversation.
I can pull up TikTok and say they're notexplaining that on TikTok, what they're,
they're not even showing you where theirmouse is, like moving across the screen,
they're showing you where the clickis, but they're showing you the click
in the place it's supposed to be, nothow you're getting there on the screen.
There are so many ways that we canshorten what it is that we're doing to
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get the main points that across, andpeople will are still going to learn.
So, it's, you know, it relates notonly in soft skills and sharing those
skills, but you can also do that withsoftware training and things like that.
And, even, having those short clips,but also reframing what it is that
you're developing when you aredeveloping it and realizing that
maybe what the true need is, isn'tnecessarily, that foundational you
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know, e-learning or something like that.
Maybe, taking that budget, and puttingit towards short videos and they
don't have to be TikTok side, right?
But the idea of a short video of justthat one specific topic and putting it
in a place that people can go to whenthey are in that system, that is a much
better use of your funds and that iswhat they're gonna actually be utilizing.
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And, then, they don't have to go throughthat whole video to get to like, oh,
you have to click on the hyperlink.
You could just go to the video thatsays hyperlink, and then that's it.
That's it.
That's all we have to, yeah.
They just want that onelittle piece of the process.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's very hard going throughtraining and you have to watch these
like hour long videos, and you realizethat in that whole hour, really, you're
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getting snippets that are more importantthat you're like, why didn't I just
get this part here and this part here?
So I think that's really, you know,utilizing the right methods to tell your
clients what you need to get out of it.
So, you know, I really appreciatethat you're taking those steps
to help clients with that.
So, kind of, looking at that, are thereany emerging trends in the social media
that they're kind of helping you reshapethe way you engage in, like social
(10:23):
learning and all that kind of stuff?
Yeah, I think podcasts aremaking an interesting comeback.
So, I thought that they kind of dippedand the podcast market actually became
quite saturated, for a while; and,frankly, the searchability was not great.
And, so, I think now actually withTikTok, it's actually increasing
podcasts because you're do, you'reseeing more videos at our podcast style.
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And, so, what I think is so coolabout that is that you can have guest
expert interviews, and just it'sa more casual tone and we're just
sitting down just with a microphone.
We can utilize Zoom to have that.
And, it feels less like, okay, I haveto get the subject matter on camera.
I have to give them a script.
I have to make sure thattheir lighting is great.
(11:09):
You know, all of these things areperfect in order to, in order to, to
get what it is that I need, right?
If years ago, if I said to a customeror if they said to me, we need to do
video, I would think of all of thesedifferent things that I would need.
Now, seeing social media and seeingthat people are not always, you know,
in the best lighting or, you know,they've got a crazy background behind
(11:32):
them, or, you know, it's just a plainwall, you know, or it's just a zoom
that we've recorded, that's makingvideo way more accessible and realizing
that truly the most important piece isthe actual content and the learning,
and not all the bells and whistles.
What I think is even cooler is that thereare TikTok videos in which there'll be,
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it's a character and it's telling a story.
Those are the ones that are also somemorable, but it's the same person
playing multiple characters and they'remaybe just putting on a jacket, or a wig,
or just being, doing something silly.
And, you don't have to get all ofthese actors and all of these people
in order to get the point acrossthat you're trying to get across.
So, I think that's really amazing.
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Another thing that I'm noticing onsocial media a lot is truly that
people are looking for community,and they're looking for people and
they're looking for a place to belong.
And, they're, you know, they'rejust looking for their people.
So, having a place where people can goand do that is really quite helpful.
And, having a place where people can sharetheir wins and be recognized for, you
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know, the work that they're doing, it'sthose little things that go a really long
way to increase belonging and, and promotea healthy culture in your organization.
No, yeah, I totally agree with that,and you know, that sense of culture
that you're talking about withthe inclusivity and that teamwork
is really, I think a big factor.
So, how do you feel that youknow, you as taking it from
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your perspective and your team?
How do you create that sense ofculture and environment within the
social media, in the team setting?
Yeah, so, I a- again, we do a lot ofthose shout outs sort of things, and
we really take into account, you know,wins that, you know, and quick tips.
So, trying to share like if something, youknow, if we learn a, you know, new trick
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or learn a new strategy, we're recordingit very quickly and almost building our
own little repository, so that when weonboard additional people, they're able to
just go and go through some of those clipsand learn those best practices instead
of maybe reading them in a long SOP thatthey're probably never going to read.
And, again, having a place inwhich that it's accessible, right?
And having that one place they're goingto for those tips and those tricks.
(13:39):
And, then, also just being able to sharemore about like, our culture through,
you know, we'll have different youknow, care like in our handbook and
stuff like that there's just differentgraphics, you know, I'll go and pick
like a social media graphic in order toshare what our brand values are and or
what a process is and things like that.
So, instead of just sitting therewith, you know, just like silly
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smart art or something like that,or just a lot of text, just trying
to liven it up a little bit.
And having, and also that, like, havingthose things also become a really
great place for us to just share onour Slack channel and things like that.
And, it becomes part of that repository.
And, then for us, we're reallyprioritizing growth mindset
in the future as in, in 2024.
(14:22):
And, for us, for me, what thatmeans aside from, you know, like
the work that you do in building aculture, it's, I'm challenging my
entire team to really start thinkinglike a social media agency, right?
And re, like if I'm looking at learningobjectives, which I really don't wanna
look at that are gonna be in a module,let's rethink how we are stating them.
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You know, let's rethink how we are howwe are doing that and pulling from that
influence, because it makes learning alittle bit more accessible when people
are able to really understand why it isthat you're saying what you're saying.
I like that.
It sounds like there's a lot ofsocial learning in your team.
You know, I just maybe know the queenof social learning, so I love to,
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you know, pick her brain a little bitabout what works and what we can do.
No, definitely, and I think, youknow, that's something that's really
has changed with that social media.
Like, you said, it's that engagementand that driving, and I think that's
really where that community is built,is like everybody has this platform
of having their own platform forthemselves and now bringing it to the
work setting, it allows you to likeshare, like you said, quick times, like
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you don't have to send an email anymore.
You can send a quick video orlike a quick update and just
be like, this is what I did.
Like, you know, I think it's, it's madeit faster for us to communicate and I
think it's easy to learn from becausenow you're not trying to figure out, oh,
X, Y, Z, it's, oh, it's straight there.
It's just straightforward.
So,
Yeah.
It's also, I would say, made itmore accessible to shine a light
on different employees, right?
(15:50):
So, before you would get tapped by,let's say your manager or a director
to shout you out at a company meeting,well, if you're not someone that maybe
has a relationship with those peopleor are in kind of that circle, then
you may not have ever gotten tapped.
Now, being able to share your ownwins, your tips, your tricks, yourself
(16:11):
in that sort of forum really makesit more accessible and more equitable
for people to, to show, you know,show that they're also rock stars.
It is, it's definitely bringingmore people to the table,
Yeah.
like it's opening up theseats for everybody to come.
And, I think nowadays one ofthe biggest thing for people
is looking for that belonging.
(16:32):
I feel like we havebecome so alienated from
Mm-Hmm.
with technology, which is a greatthing, and social media is a great
thing, but it can also be isolating.
So, this idea that you were talking about,about building communities, not just
at work, but you know, outside of work.
Yeah.
Everybody's just lookingto belong someplace.
I mean, truly employees thatbelong, they don't leave.
(16:54):
Exactly.
You know, unless they really have to, forsome reason, they're not going anywhere.
Yep.
So, seeing the success that you've hadwith this kind of new like evolution of
your learning and design development andall that, and moving to that more of a
social media marketing kind of philosophy.
What are some main points that youwould like stress to like anybody
in L and D or within the thinglooking to do these kind of things?
(17:16):
Like what's something that they shouldsteal, like or look at the most when
they're trying to create these platforms?
Yeah, absolutely.
First, I would say is just be an observerof everything, you know, and really take
into account, really pay attention, right?
So, like, for example, we mutecommercials in this household.
(17:37):
They're usually louder thanwhat I am watching, if I'm even
watching regular TV anymore, andit was just kind of a bothersome.
Now, realizing that there's a lot tolearn, I will unmute them to pay attention
to what it is that they're doing and justuse it as a learning opportunity, right?
And, really that can be said aboutanything, whether it's Netflix or
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you know, going to your kids CubScouts meeting, you know, there's
so many things that you learnedabout everywhere that you're going.
Just being that observant is reallyjust an educational opportunity, right?
So really paying attentionis number one most important.
Second is really working onreframing how they're stating
what it is that they're stating.
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You know, an ad doesn't start with,"welcome to this pharmaceutical, this
ad for this pharmaceutical drug".
No, it starts with, are youworried about, I don't know,
inconsonance or something like that?
I know.
Are you worried about, know, whateverailment that you're worried about, right?
Do you not wanna be embarrassed about,you know, having to go to the bathroom,
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you know, in the middle of a party?
Things that we've actually all felt right?
So like, take from that, like,and that stops us in our track
and is like, you know what?
I felt that way.
I want to pay attention to thisad and maybe, and then I'm gonna
go and talk to my doctor about it.
And, so I think thinking like that,so instead of saying something like,
"welcome to Salesforce training", right?
(19:05):
Talk about, you know, theimportance of it, right?
What it is that they're goingto learn from the beginning.
And just have it, you know, treat it trulylike a hook, you know, you've got three,
I think in eLearn you have more, youknow, you've got like 10 to 15 seconds to
hook someone in, but give them that hook.
Why is it they're gonnawanna pay attention?
(19:26):
And, just that changing that toneof voice will get people to stop,
because we're all really used to beingtalked to in an eLearn and it varies.
It's almost like all voiceovers,kind of all sounds the same
when it comes to an eLearn.
Yes, there's different artists, butsometimes it feel like they all still
sound the same, so we tune it outbecause we've heard it so many times.
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But having those differenttypes of conversation, really
kind or tones really does help.
And then, I think also knowing that thisis going to be a huge shift, if you wanna
start doing this in your organization.
It is gonna be very differentthan what people learned.
If they went through instructionaldesign, you know, school or get it in
their master's or any sort of training.
It's also very different than whatthey've normally done day in and day out.
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And it'll also be a challenge forsome senior leaders to buy in.
So, a lot of people say thatthey're looking towards the
future, but they're not.
Right?
And if we look at who's trulyentering into our workforce, this
is how they've been learning.
This is how they're currently,they're not going to Google, right?
They're going to TikTok to search.
(20:31):
Heck, I need to know how to packa wide brim hat on a vacation.
I went to TikTok and searched it.
And so, these are things thatour next generation is doing.
And so, we need to start meetingour people where they're at.
And if that's where they're at, let'sjust try it and just know that it's gonna
take you some time, but you can get there.
(20:51):
You know, try something small.
I think people to do these biggreat things, and try to, like
how we say, eat the elephant.
We're not, don't try to eat the elephant.
Just eat one little piece at atime, show people how it can work.
Just do something internal for yourteam, you know, or just do something
small and show people how it can bedone, and then you can expand from there.
(21:14):
Yeah.
You know, we're talking aboutthe new generation, but I
think the older generationsare tired too, and they're just
Yeah.
ready for the change.
Heck yeah.
How many times that you start thosetrainings and it's like, "welcome,"
and you're like, here we go again.
Oh, every time I was justat my kid's soccer game.
They were saying that.
Yes.
In those 10 seconds, 15 secondsis so important to build
(21:37):
that, you know, investment...
yeah.
from the person that's watching it,and if you miss that opportunity, that
whole training is just gonna like gone.
Well, you know, in social media,what you're doing a lot of times
building like know and trust,and you still have to do that.
You know, and we don't do thatas a a, you know, an L and D.
We don't build like know and trusts.
We just assume that, you know, that we'rethe experts and you have to pay attention.
(21:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, and like you have to behere because this is just a
training that you have to do.
And, we go into that training.
Yeah.
You know, we create that training knowingthat they're just gonna have to do it,
and there's so many bad trainings out.
So many, I know, I was, when at thekids' soccer game, one of the dads
asked like, oh, what are you doing?
And, I told him what I did and he'slike, wait, so you make the training
that I cannot fast forward through, andI was like, well, I didn't make that
(22:23):
training, but I have, yeah, I said.
He's like, can you stop doing that?
And I was like, well, it'snot my request, it's at the
client's request, but I'm trying.
No.
Yeah, and, I mean, but that'sthe thing like you said, it's
about getting your money's worth.
If you're gonna make a trainingand you're gonna just have people
not engage in it, then what's thepoint of spending the money on that?
(22:43):
Like you want something thatthey're gonna get something out of.
So, I think that's something that'sreally important, and like you said, you
want to hook those people, your client'straining or attendees in and get them
to like be part of the conversation.
It's about making the conversation,rather than just sitting there
listening to the conversation.
So I think that's really great.
Yeah, I mean if you think about it,you have this like compliance trainings
(23:06):
which are like super boring sometimes.
And, people just, a lot of the timethey do compliance training, because
they get flagged something wentwrong, and then they create these
trainings that are like super boring.
The employees are not paying attentionand the next year they get flagged again.
Yeah.
It's, it's just another training.
Like, here you go, let's checkthis off so we can keep working.
It doesn't matter as long as we got this.
(23:26):
And, it's just like spendingmoney year after year on the
same training, but no one's doinganything to change the training.
So, the employees actually learnwhat they need to learn and
they're like invested in it.
Well, they're not investing,like, so I talk all the time
about cybersecurity training.
My dream is to dress up like a, a hackerin all black record TikTok style videos
(23:47):
about the importance of cybersecurity.
And, I just said, you know,yesterday at a conference I was
like, you know, instead of, youknow, welcome to cybersecurity 1 0 1.
Starting the conversation with, "haveyou ever been cur, been nervous about
opening up that email and clickingon that link and worried that you're
gonna be the one that brings downthe entire company's firewall?
(24:10):
Well, this is why youwanna pay attention, right?
Because we've all been there.
I've, you know, we've all openedup an email that I'm like, this
looks legit, but like, is it not?
You know what I mean?
And, it happens.
And honestly, there's no reason whythose trainings shouldn't be slightly
refreshed every few years, because youcan pull actual stories of asked employees
protecting the guilty, of course.
(24:32):
And, how they accidentally didthings that weren't compliant, right?
Or maybe consciously, but pullingthose actual real stories.
Because here's the other thing,there'll be training out there where
the examples are so not realisticthat it's hard to connect with them.
So, like for example, my husband wastelling me about his sexual harassment
(24:53):
training he has to take every single year.
And, he tells me that he laughsthrough some of the examples
'cause it's just so outrageous.
And then, he told me about it and Iwas like, it's not even, it's like, I
guess, yeah, it's like funny if I waslike watching it, but it's just, it's
sad for me as a woman, who has beensexually harassed, to know that they're
(25:16):
not even taking it seriously to put inrealistic like things that are actually
sexual harassment, that people maybe,it maybe blurs the line for them,
because they're not, they don't care.
They're not paying attention.
So, it's just taking thattime and taking it seriously.
And, unfortunately, because we're alwayssaying training is the answer, you
know, we have to have more training.
(25:36):
Our training department is never ableto get to doing that, this type of work.
So, we do like, okay, that compliancetraining is done, we're just gonna
keep it on loop and just send it out.
And, as long as there's no majorpolicy change, we're good, because
they're too busy doing other stuff thatprobably is quite frankly meaningless.
Yeah, and, and you know, makingpeople uncom- uncomfortable sometimes
(25:56):
it's the investment that we need.
Yes, exactly.
Those people.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, I've been told, and youknow, when we've created some,
some scenarios, they're like, oh,that's gonna be a little jarring.
And I'm like, that's what you want.
That's what you want.
That's how you, you wantpeople to react to that.
Yeah.
The reaction's important.
I was like, are you jarred,also, when you watch tv?
That is what, that's what you wanted.
(26:16):
There's a reason they don't, theydon't smooth it over on TV if
they wanna make an impact, right?
They don't gloss over the issue ifthat's what they want you to learn.
So, we need to be doing that same thing.
I agree.
That storytelling isso important and real.
Oh my critical
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think that's somethingthat, like you said, a lot of people
aren't doing, because they don't knowhow to, or they don't wanna make it
(26:39):
look bad, but at the same time, itwon't look bad as long as the message
is getting across the right way.
And, I think that's something that hasto change in the settings in order for
there to be an effective change and aneffective learning environment because
you learn through realistic experiences.
You don't learn from just hearing anexample that was made up by somebody
who just came up with an idea.
No, you have to tell somethingthat's real, a real story.
(27:00):
And, you know, there's a lot of, justlike you said, like in the television,
there's so much real content outthere that it really appeals to that
emotion, whether it's good or bad.
You know, if it's a happy emotionor if it's a sad emotion, or
if it's just an angry emotion.
You wanna get that reactionoutta your clients.
So I think that's really important.
Absolutely.
The more you know, people will rememberstories when they're impactful and
(27:20):
we'll remember stories where there'ssome sort of emotion tied to it.
And, so, those are critical.
That's great.
So, kind of, like goinginto that storytelling.
So, how has like storytellingbeen something that like
you've done and like implement?
Like, I know you were talkingabout doing the thing for the
cybersecurity, like that so.
How have you done that in your socialmedia settings and like your stuff?
(27:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, we're talking to our customersabout, you know, doing those
sort of like examples, right?
And then, telling them, you know,reminding them they don't have to have
multiple people, you can, but we show themhow you can, you know, easily edit, so
that you like, look like you're talkingto yourself or whatever the case may be.
You're looking to someone else, but,you know, you're cutting the clips.
And so, what we're doing is we'retalking about what are these like,
(28:05):
quick, short stories that we could tell.
And, really simple framework is there'sa hero and there's a guide, right?
So, for example, you know, you have newhire training; and your hero is your new
hire and the guide could be, you know,their mentor in the organization, right?
And, that helps to guidethem through onboarding.
So, imagine having that story toldand you're kind of helping, you know,
(28:26):
whoever this Johnny new hire is getto his first day, get through his
first day or first week of work.
And, those sorts of stories are, arereally helpful, because you get to
actually start to like invest, right?
You invest in seeingthem, seeing them grow.
We're talking a lot about justthe overall arcs of pieces, right?
So, instead of just having one sort of,you know, conversation or one sort of
(28:50):
training modules, how can we expand thisinto kind of like an episodic sort of
situation where we have episodes, right?
and, we treat it as such.
And, you can do little cool things, evenif you're in something like articulate
storyline, like make a next button.
I saw someone posted this on, on YouTube.
You can make the next button looklike the next episode button where it
(29:12):
fills up in white, like on Netflix.
You can do things like thatwhere people can feel like
they're watching a TV series.
I was just on a, on a call withsomeone who created a tv sort of
series and just posted yesterdayabout, a philanthropist in Dallas, who
want, they wanted to get more 13 to17-year-old girls interested in STEM.
(29:33):
And so, they created a TV show thatactually ended up winning an Emmy, right?
So they're, what they're doingis they're telling stories.
They're compelling people.
They're showing the arcs.
They're showing all the pieces ofall the sides and all the facets
of what it is that you're learning.
And, they're treating learningas three dimensional, right.
(29:53):
It's not just one note or one dimensional.
There's different facets.
So, being able to talk about whatis the arc for your learner as well.
So, when they come in and they'restarting to pay attention, they're
starting to watch, they're starting toconsume your training, they're here,
but where do we want them to get to andwhat are the different, the different
(30:17):
scenes in between in order to get there.
The different identities that they'regonna end up having in between.
And, how do we showcasethat and what's that?
You know, like I saying, characterarc that we can take them through.
I think that's so cool.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think this,it's innovative, right?
If you think about it, and it's, again,it goes back to that not everybody coming
(30:40):
in is gonna be in the same place, right?
Talking about onboarding and new hires.
Mm-Hmm.
Not everybody is gonna have thesame knowledge, and if you have this
ability create these episodes, youdon't have to watch the whole series
to get to where you're going, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
It creates an equitable space whereno matter what place you are in your
career, in your experience, wherever youare, you are gonna have a place to go.
(31:04):
And, whether you have tostart the beginning of the
show or on the last episode.
Yeah.
Everybody is like on the same level.
It's a way to personalize learningwithout having to personalize
for every single person.
For every single person.
Yeah, people take personalizationalmost too literally at times; and it's
like if you have multiple options, youdon't force everybody to go through
(31:24):
the whole thing and they're ableto go in and pick where they start.
Then, I think, you know, there's theop the opportunity for you to, you
know, give people that personalization.
And, I think talking more about thedifferent char, like the character
arc actually takes your learnerpersona and makes it evolve, right?
(31:46):
Because that learner persona that you're,that you're creating from, that's a
great start, but you need to have thatlearner persona for the entire journey.
So, we often talk about developingit, like who's your learner?
And what we're not talking about is wheredo we want your learner to end up and what
is that aspirational persona for them?
And so if you can help to develop that, itactually helps you create content and know
(32:07):
that journey that they're gonna go on.
Definitely.
I think, yeah, that journey is soimportant, because, like you said,
it's about relatability and I thinkthat's where you really appeal is when
people can relate to the experience andthen find it useful to them without,
with any point where they start.
So, I think that's really interesting.
So, kind of moving on into, like lookingat the future, what are, you know, what
(32:30):
are you seeing for the future of this?
Like how are you seeing new thingsevolving and how's social media gonna be
and very impactful and what is changing?
Yeah.
So, you know, one of the things thatI, uh, was reading in a book by Alex
Harmozi, recently, was it's not thatpeople's attention spans are getting
(32:50):
shorter, we just have higher standards.
And, I've been like shoutingthat for quite some time.
Like our attention spans, likeI can pay attention to an hour
long Real Housewives episode whenno one is going to distract me.
Not even my children, you know, likeI am invested in Miami right now.
So, people can pay attention.
(33:10):
They just have standards as to whatthey're going to pay attention to.
And so, it's gonna actually force us tobe, to learn to be better, as developers
and to have higher standards for thequality that we're putting there.
You know, and over time, especially aswe have tools that people can go and
(33:30):
develop, like these AI tools, people canfeel like they can just go and develop.
It, it's gonna make that, you know, thosesorts of roles are gonna almost go away.
You know, that it's nolonger gonna be your shtick.
You've gotta bring, like, whatis it that's so special about
you that you're gonna bring.
Well, it's that, you know, thatquality, and just being able to
really relate with your audience.
I think as we're looking towardsthe future, it's more about
(33:53):
meeting people where they're at.
You know, we're in a criticaltime in our organizations.
We have so many generationsin the workforce and people
are all at different places.
And even, if, you know, we're always,this is always going to be, we're gonna
have different people in different places.
And so, we have to be able to meetthem where they're at; and I think the
ability to shift and innovate quickly.
(34:15):
Oftentimes, customers will come tome to let go and make changes; and,
I'm like, that's gonna take a while.
Well, are there ways that we canget around, creating content in
a different way where we're ableto update and adapt quickly.
And, that's going to be quite imperative.
So, utilizing different assets likethese TikTok videos allow you to go
(34:35):
and like replace quite quickly; and theidea of repurposing, so something that
we do a lot on our marketing side isrepurpose content; and, I think that
is critical for us to start doing;and to maximize your training budget.
So, if you're gonna, you know, ifyou have to have that foundational
eLearn, if you will then you can alsorepurpose it by figuring out how you
(34:59):
can break them up into shorter clips.
If you have a long webinar or alunch and learn, breaking it up into
clips to then use it as marketingmaterials to get people to watch
the longer form content, especiallycontent that is not required, right?
Optional.
You'll have a lot of time for that, right?
We're not giving people time in their dayto do learning, but I will make time in
(35:22):
my day if I see clips of it and I'm like,oh, that actually looks like something
that I really wanna know more about.
It relates to me.
It's very, you know,could be very interesting.
Now, that I've seen a couple of clips.
I don't have to in, I didn'thave to invest the hour.
I either got what I needed out of afew clips, or I've seen a few clips.
Now, I want to invest thathour to pay attention.
(35:44):
And, so I think that's gonna besomething that we're gonna have to
start looking at; and I hope thatpeople start doing more and realizing
you actually can get more budget.
You know, you can stretch yourbudget when you do things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, employees higher standards.
Mm-Hmm.
Right?
So, it's gonna be interesting to seethat shift, especially, because a lot
(36:04):
of the time it's like, oh, we're doingthis because this is the way it's
always been and, you know, it's working.
Mm-Hmm.
Division works until now, but it'snot really working; and, you know,
with social media, the internet,like nothing stays hidden anymore.
So, if someone has something to sayabout the way that your training is
(36:26):
going, about the way that you treat youremployees, it's gonna be in the internet.
Very quickly.
Well,
People have to to step up.
They're going to have to step up, andthey're gonna have to do what their
employees want, because guess what?
They're gonna go online,they're gonna bash your company,
and then you're recruiting.
I- I just yesterday, so yesterday when Iwas at the conference, I got an Instagram
reel from one of my good friends.
(36:47):
It was someone that we both knewgrowing up, and he has a training
company not in our space at all.
He trains law enforcement agentsand this was a training from two
years ago where there is some veryproblematic language at this conference,
and now it is all over the news.
Yeah.
You know, so the, you know,a lot of things that we know,
(37:07):
nothing is private anymore.
So, we need to be, you know, rethinkingwhat it's that we're doing, right?
And, people will go on TikTok and say,don't go and work there because, you
know, they're not truly invested in youas an employee; although, their website
says that they do that they are, truly,they're not actually invested in us.
(37:28):
So that should, you know, it, it sucksfor the companies, but it's great for,
you know, looking for the employee.
Heck yeah.
As an employer.
I'm tired of this like I'm done, you know?
Uh, so props to, you know,the newer generations
Yeah.
I love it.
Their B.
S.
meter is, is yeah, they could readBS really quickly and you know what?
(37:51):
They've, they enact change.
You know, I work a lot with Gen Z throughmy, through my volunteer with my sorority,
and so I'm constantly working with 18to 22 year olds, and I've literally
seen them change policies that have beenin, you know, part of our institution
for, since the dawn of time, right?
Literally since 1873.
(38:13):
And, I've seen them change those policies,and I've seen them, you know, stand up
for each other, and champion each other.
And so, I think it's just, they'regonna be the ones that change the world.
It is such a pleasure to watchand I'm always in awe of them.
So yeah, they're gonnachallenge us to, to be better.
I agree.
(38:33):
I think, I think Gen Z's thedefinition of, just because it
is doesn't mean it should be.
Mm-Hmm.
And, we're gonna do something about it.
Yeah.
They are so, "Yay, Diego!"
Yes.
I, I love it.
Give me a good Gen Z term.
What's a good, what's a good Gen Z word?
(38:53):
You have like a slangphrase that you all use.
I only know one.
What's the one that you know?
Maybe
I've heard of Cheugy.
I learned it from a TikTok.
Do you know that one?
No?
Okay, so all right.
Well, then maybe I'mcooler than you Diego.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so excited.
I forget what it was.
I don't know.
(39:14):
I think it's like I forget, like,kind of, like making fun of like,
being like so millennial, or, like, Idon't know, like, it's like, it's like
being too much or something like that.
I learned it from a TikTok of this Cubangirl I follow, and so I was like, oh, I
feel like cool, because I know one phrase.
But, yeah, so I'm gonna, I wouldlike a dictionary 'cause I feel like
sometimes they say stuff and I'mlike, I don't know what that is, but I
(39:37):
wanna be just as cool as you all are.
I feel like our slang honestlycomes from Tiktoks and social media.
Like, people just say randomstuff and then you just pick
up on it and it, it catches on.
Yeah, that wildfire that justgoes and spreads everywhere.
You're like, where dowe even start from this?
And, you're like, oh,it came from like this.
And, you're like, why did weever pick up this language?
But, I mean, you know, that'swhat I mean it's like you're so
(39:58):
much, social media influences usso much, and it's so impactful.
Like, it's really revolutionizedthe Gen Z culture.
Like that's, the Gen Z cultureis built around social media.
Like everything we do, everything we want.
That's why I say I feel like social mediafor us is why we create change, because
we're constantly seeing it every daythat we're like, well, we have a voice.
We can use our voice, which I don'tthink the generations before had
(40:20):
that platform to use their voice.
And, because social media's so vast,that's the platform that you can use your
voice and have, whether it's good or bad,you're gonna put it out there and not
give any care about what everyone elsesays, because it's your platform to use
your voice and nobody can say about it.
So.
Oh damn.
Drop that mic.
Yeah, that's the socialmedia clip for this episode.
Screw everything I said.
(40:42):
That's it right there.
I love that.
And I, yeah, I a thousandpercent agree with you.
And, and interestingly enough, peoplewill ask me when I speak about, you know,
TikTok and stuff, they're like, well, howdo we get people to wanna be on camera?
And, I was like, well, there youcould do on-camera things, right?
So, you don't always have to be on camera.
You can choose to, you know,content creators I think would be
a great new type of role, right?
(41:05):
For each department.
They have, like, a little miniinfluencer that can work with your
recruiting departments, get people in.
It could be really cool.
And, you also have a whole generation thatare used to having a camera stuck in their
face since the minute their eyes opened.
So, they're not shy.
Yeah.
If they don't have it now,they want to have it because
that's, that's like a thing.
Yeah, exactly.
(41:26):
That's true.
Did y'all, have y'all seen the DuolingoOwl where he's doing all the tiktoks now?
They just put the mascot in.
They put one of their employees andlike they made a whole like a mascot
outfit and now he goes around theentire agency and just makes Tiktoks.
That's literally his onlyjob is to make Tiktoks.
And then, they put it out there and that'show they've been getting content and
getting a lot of growth for the business.
So, it's something a lot of businessesare seeing a need for and I think
(41:48):
it is gonna change the way thelandscape of how businesses function.
And, I think with this going intotraining, because you're appealing to this
new generation coming into the workplace,it is gonna be something that's impactful.
And like you said, it's gonna changea lot, but I think, eventually, once
people get on board, it's gonna be theright change to get those old habits
(42:08):
that probably weren't the most effectiveout of the way and put something
that's gonna really push the company togreater needs and greater expectations.
Like you said, that raising thatstandard, because that's all what
it's about is raising the standardfor everyone in the company.
Yeah, and it's not aboutreplacing anything, right?
You're not getting rid of stuff.
You know, some things that work great,let's not get rid of things, you know?
(42:28):
But, it's just about challenging theway that we're coming at the language,
how we're coming at the experience asa whole; and when you're doing that,
you're still, you're still holding onand retaining the legacy of it, right?
And all the good thingsand the fundamentals.
And now, we're just, you know,making it more relevant; and
just a little bit better.
And, I think too, you know, wewe're talking a lot about Gen Z
(42:51):
and they're easy to, to kind ofpull on, but all the generations
are really digging into Instagramreels and TikTok and YouTube shorts.
You know, my dad is constantlysending me stuff on Instagram,
or he's looking up recipes now,and he is definitely not Gen Z.
So I, you know, this is notjust like a generational thing.
People are all catching on, becausethey realize they can learn in these
(43:15):
short clip in these short bits orjust go and learn to make that, you
know, French onion soup, and just, youknow, capture what they need, and then
go on and do what they need to do.
Definitely.
Yeah, I know.
My mom sends me that all the time too.
She's like, here's a clip.
And, I'm like, and the thing is,with the social media, it's- now,
even like TikTok, there's so manydifferent forms of those content.
Like it can be like just images, or nowyou have like, you know, the 30 second
(43:38):
clips, or now it can be three minutes.
So, you know, it's so ever evolvingthat it's so interesting to see
how it's like forming arounddifferent people and appealing to
the different target audiences.
Yeah, and then you see the communitiesform around influencers, right?
So, people start to connect in thecomments and then you kind of start
to see these little communitiesbuild; and it is a quite a community
(44:00):
builder 'cause people are makinggenuine connection through social.
Yeah, and it's like constant.
Mm-Hmm.
Mm-Hmm
Social media is likeconstant social learning.
You're, you're just the whole time,everything that you're consuming and
like we become this like amalgamationof things that other people do.
Yeah.
We just go from it all the time.
(44:21):
Everything that we do, the waythat we make our coffee, the
way that we, it doesn't matter.
Nowadays, nowadays, it's justsomething, "oh, I saw this on".
That's, that's the beginningof so many sentences.
So many.
I saw it on TikTok.
Yes.
I saw this on Instagram.
I, or like you're talking to someone andthey're telling you about your situation.
You're like, oh, I saw a memeabout this the other day.
Mm-Hmm.
(44:41):
Right.
It's like constant.
Those references that arecoming at you all the time.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, I think that's just, that's suchan important thing is that you also can
curate, like if you wanna pay attention towhat's going on, you can curate your feed.
You know, so stop paying attentionto, I don't know, the dancing videos
and start searching for things like,you know, marketing tips or, you know,
(45:04):
instructional design tips, right?
Leadership tips.
That is really truly where the,the content is going right?
How to videos, all of that.
You can, right?
I mean, that is what, don't even get me.
This is like you, I will get on asoapbox on this, but our learning
management systems have it all wrong.
They're focused about what you like,and what you like, and what I like as
(45:27):
opposed, and like trying to share thatlike with all of us, as opposed to
creating a personalized experience for me.
So, realizing that I liked this pieceof content, I took it and showing me
more content that would be related.
That's what they need to be focusedon, is an interest-based algorithm
as opposed to a social graph.
(45:48):
Right?
And, at the same time...
it's that algorithm.
Mm-Hmm.
. Right.
At the same time, allowing you tofind that community that is interested
in the same things that you are.
Exactly.
Those people that are liking andare commenting on those things are
probably people that you're gonnahave something in common with.
That's right.
If you wanna look for a mentor, this ishow you can look for a mentor, you know?
Exactly.
So, there's a lot to be also done withour own, social, our learning management
(46:15):
systems to start pulling in from social.
Unfortunately, they'rejust so slow to change.
Right, definitely.
And, it's gonna continue to evolvewhether you either get on the train
or you just let it leave you behind.
That's how it's gonna be.
I think, like you said, itjust comes down to you wanting
to be adapting to the change.
You don't have to fully go full forcein it, but at least be open to the
(46:36):
adaptations and see how it plays out.
That's the key for most employers andemployees is how do I be a part of it?
because it's going to happenwhether you like it or not.
Like, there's no stopping the evolution.
And, I think, you know, socialmedia is just continuing to grow new
platform to put out every single day.
And, you know, it's,that's just how it is.
I know I wanna create my own.
(46:57):
I was telling Nicole that yesterdayon the drive to New York City, but
that's gonna, it's a lot of capital.
I, I I have a new business now.
I can't do all of that, butI eventually wanna create a,
social media platform one day.
That's what happens whenyou're an entrepreneur.
Your brain is always thinking oflike the next thing all the time.
Always.
(47:17):
What, what's, what can I, like, Igot this now, like what's my next?
Yep.
Yep.
What's my next adventure?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, literally.
So yeah, I could, I feel you.
I feel you.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much Vanessa,for being here today with us.
We really appreciate it and thankyou for providing our viewers and
listeners with so much great content.
Like it was really insightful.
Yeah, of course.
(47:38):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was so lovely to getto chat with you all.
Yes.
So if, our listeners want tolearn more about your work, your
agency, and, you know, anythingelse, where can they find you?
Yeah, so you, the best place tofind me is on LinkedIn Vanessa
Alzate and follow Anchored Training.
You can follow us on Instagram, andTikTok, and YouTube, and also Kirkpatrick
(47:59):
Partners, the newest company that I have.
Perfect.
Sounds good.
Well, thank you again and lab mates.
We will see you next time on anotherepisode of the Social Learning Lab.
Bye everyone.
Bye.
Isn't it amazing how we can takescrolling through our feed into a
full blown educational experience?
Let's take a quick moment to retweet someof the main takeaways from this episode.
First, adopt a marketing mindset, usingsocial media as a source of inspiration
(48:23):
by borrowing successful strategiesfrom different platforms to enhance the
creation of in the moment resources.
Second, short and sweet content isthe most effective way to engage
and communicate with the audience.
Thus, maximizing your budget.
Third, meet the learner at where they are.
Learners have higher standardsto what captures their attention.
Repurposing and building adaptable contentthat can feel specialized will ensure they
(48:46):
get what they need out of their training.
Fourth, similar to community seekingon social media, create a space
for recognizing wins and sharingquick tips to foster a positive
learning culture within your team.
Finally, embrace a growth mindset.
Don't be afraid to try thesestrategies in your work.
Encourage your team to think inan innovative and creative way.
Remember, the next time someone saysyou spend too much time on social media,
(49:09):
just tell them you're attending a masterclass in 21st century instruction.
Now, it's your turn.
For your experiment, it's time to puton your social media thinking cap.
Choose one specific platform to useas a guide and create a short form
content to teach your viewers, whetherit's turning a TikTok trend into a
lesson on how to solve a tech issue,or creating an Instagram graphic on
Canva with some of the best practices.
(49:30):
The possibilities are endless.
Go forth and unleash yourcreativity on the digital canvas.
You can find the full experiment briefin the show notes or in the Social
Learning Lab community on Facebook.
In the community, you can also shareyour creations, get feedback and insight
from peers, and comment on others ideas.
If you enjoyed this episode, please leavea review, like, subscribe, or share so
(49:51):
we can continue to build a supportivegroup of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
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