February 26, 2024 • 35 mins
Becoming an IDOL is more than a title, it’s a door to making your network your net worth. Learn from a true expert in the field, Dr. Robin Sargent of IDOL Academy, on how social learning is being implemented in IDOL’s mass cohorts to develop the next generation of creative learning designers.
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Special Guest
Dr. Robin Sargent, Ph.D. Instructional Design-Online Learning | Founder & CEO of IDOL Academy
Dr. Robin Sargent, Ph.D., is an entrepreneur, author of "The Do It Messy Approach," and a recognized Top 100 Learning Influencer. With a Ph.D. in Education, she has extensive experience as an instructional designer, professor, and former Director of Learning & Development. Driven by her passion for creative learning design, she founded IDOL courses, IDOL Talent, and IDOL Academy, pioneering innovative approaches in the field. She aims to create an IDOL world for all learners through her work.
Learn more about IDOL Academy*
Connect with Dr. Sargent on LinkedIn
Mentioned in this Episode:
Your Hosts
Rocio Granela, Jr. Project Manager | LinkedIn
Katie Hynes, Instructional Designer | LinkedIn
Nicole Papaioannou Lugara, Founder & Learning Strategist | LinkedIn
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https://www.yourinstructionaldesigner.com
*Your ID is an IDOL Academy affiliate, as we believe in what they offer to developing instructional designers and eLearning developers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Quick!
Your company's growing and bringingon a wave of new hires, and your
onboarding program needs to scale.
How to keep the benefits of a moreintimate, small group learning
experience when you're suddenly servingmore than a hundred people at a time.
This episode is your backstage pass tothe world of mass cohorts and no, it
definitely doesn't look like a giantlecture hall where learners sit there
(00:22):
feeling bored, passive, and anonymous.
Hi lab mates.
Welcome to the Social Learning Lab, apodclass about social learning at work.
In today's episode, we examinewhat it takes to scale the
cohort learning experience from25 participants to over 100.
With Dr.
Robin Sargent of IDOL courses,you'll find out how Dr.
Robin has preserved that sense ofconnection and camaraderie while getting
(00:45):
real results for IDOL's Academy members.
Let's do this!
Hi lab mates.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Social Learning Lab.
I'm Rocio.
I'm here with my co-hosts,Katie and Nicole.
And today, we have a very special guest.
Please help me welcome Dr.
Robin Sargent from IDOL Academy.
Dr.
(01:05):
Robin Sargent is an entrepreneur,author of the Duet Messy approach and
a recognized top-one hundred learninginfluencer with a PhD in Education.
She has extensive experienceas an Instructional Designer,
Professor, and former Directorof Learning and Development.
Driven by her passion forcreative learning design.
She founded IDOL courses, IDOLTalent, and IDOL Academy, pioneering
(01:27):
innovative approaches in the field.
She aims to create an IDOL worldfor all learners through her work.
Yes.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you so much, Rocio.
And, we were talking just before,this is a full circle moment.
Yes, yes, yes, I did.
I did IDOL back in 2021, so it feelslike yesterday, but it's, it's been a
(01:50):
little bit, so now I'm here interviewingyou, so definitely, a success story
right here in front of you guys.
I
And, you got the bestboss in the industry.
Yes, yes, yes, I do.
I do.
And, I say it all the time how muchI love Nicole and our team and how we
came together was very serendipitous.
But, yay, so today we're gonna betalking about mass cohorts as a
(02:14):
way of professional development.
So, let's just get right to it.
So, tell us a littlebit about IDOL Academy.
So, IDOL Academy happens to be thefirst and only authorized vocational
school for instructional design andonline learning development; and so,
because we are a vocational school, wesee instructional design as a practice.
(02:37):
And, in order to learn and train inand to become an instructional designer
and e-learning developer, we put you indeliberate practice hands-on learning.
And, of course, there is a sociallearning component to our school, and
so we're a virtual vocational school.
Just be clear.
Okay.
(02:57):
We've been around for about five years.
It's five years this year.
Woo.
Congrats.
Can't believe it's already five years.
And, we've enrolled over 3000students and we have over 600
self-reported success stories.
I'm sure there's more, but that's howmany have self-reported and gotten their
IDOL courses Academy mug in the mail.
(03:20):
Wait, I have mine.
Me too
See right here.
I remember, not to derail theconversation, but I remember
when you were just starting theIDOL, become an IDOL podcast.
I was still in my old house with mycushy carpet and better acoustics.
And like, it's been really coolto watch it grow from just an idea
to this beautiful, wonderful spacefor people who are trying to enter
(03:43):
the field or develop their skills.
And, really in some ways, it's kindof ruffled a lot of feathers, because
it used to be that instructionaldesign was something that you learn
in a purely academic setting; and,we were the, you know, overeducated
nerds in companies, running theLearning and Development Department.
(04:05):
And so, to come along and say, no, it'sa vocation, it's a trade, and this is
how you, you know, should be trained upand act accordingly in the profession
has been a very interesting ride.
Yeah.
And, and, there's, there's peoplestill out there in the field that
don't think it's a trade, so definitelyhave had those conversations before.
(04:27):
So, thinking about mass cohorts,how many people would you say
enroll in a session of IDOL Academy?
Well, it's changed over the years.
I mean, I actually remember just aboutevery number of people that enrolled for
every single cohort, and we are actuallycurrently enrolling our 16th cohort.
(04:49):
And yes, and so for me, that'show I, that's how I remember
every, you know, what every groupwas like by their cohort number.
Like you can say, oh, I was from cohorttwo, or I was from cohort six, and
I'll know what year that is, what monththat was, and how many people enrolled.
So, when I started, it was in July, 2019.
My first cohort was 25 people.
(05:11):
My second cohort was 25 people.
In January 2020, we enrolled35 people, and I thought
like what a huge improvement.
And then, in June 2020,we enrolled 150 students.
And, at that time, that's also whenI started incorporating, you know,
(05:33):
coaches and mentors because I couldn'tserve 150 students all by myself.
And, from that, you know, June,2020, we've continued to grow.
And so, we average about a thousandstudents a year after starting in 2021.
Wow!
So, each cohort, you know, right now we'vekind of limited it to 300, because of
(05:57):
the amount of faculty and staff requiredto give everyone deliberate practice
and feedback and all those things.
So, our cap right now is 300 studentsand we're currently enrolling, so I
don't know what the final number is yet.
That's, that's a lot of growth
Yeah.
Five years from 25 studentsto almost a thousand.
And, why did you choose cohortsfor your flagship program?
(06:22):
Like when you started, you said like,this is gonna be like a cohort based.
Well, funny, I mean, we'retalking about social learning,
Yeah.
Yeah.
Social learning is about likeemulating other people and, and
their behaviors and, and what youexperience from others out in the world.
And, for me, I used to be theAssistant Dean at Shorter University
and I was the Assistant Dean ofa Professional Studies program.
(06:44):
The way that program ran is theywould meet at night to earn their
associates, their bachelor's,and their master's degree, right.
And, they would meet once aweek for four hours at night,
you know, from like six to 10.
And, they would have a learningteam and they would have a cohort.
So, they would have a group of people thatthey moved through every single class in
(07:05):
their, you know, degree track together.
Mm-Hmm.
And then, they also kept thesame learning teams throughout,
you know, the different tracks.
The different classes thatthey would go in, which built
some really great comradery.
It built, you know, an a built-innetwork for them, and they always
talked about their cohorts.
(07:25):
And, of course, I was a teacheras well as the Assistant Dean.
And I, then, I also enrolled in theMBA program at Shorter University
and experienced the cohort modeland the learning team firsthand.
And, I had never experiencedthat in any of my other studies,
and it was an eyeopener to me.
It just, just all the benefits thatcame from that modality or that method.
(07:51):
And, so for me, whenever I wantedto, you know, start helping people,
I wanted to do the same format.
I wanted people to be connectedand to support each other and to
network from the very beginning.
And so, that's why I startedwith my founding members and
I called them cohort one.
Yeah, there's a lot of advantage.
(08:11):
We, we believe over here, there's alot of advantages to cohort learning
and, and social learning and, andall the things that go together.
And you mentioned some of them.
For you, what is the number onesingle advantage that cohorts bring?
Just one?
If you had to choose one for you,what's the most important one?
(08:32):
Results baby.
Yeah.
It's asked to be theresults and the outcomes.
I mean, it is the data, the testimonials.
So, it's like hard data and, youknow, all those anecdotal stories
that I hear all the time, theyget the support that they need.
They get the confidence that they needin order to go and reach their goals.
And, not only that, because theyare connected and a community,
(08:56):
they hand each other jobs.
They refer each other to other jobs.
I mean, Rocio, you are an example ofthe, of the connection of community,
of getting connected, even with Nicole.
And, it just, it's proven over andover again in their, in the outcomes.
Yeah.
When, when I did IDOL, actually, Nicolewas a guest speaker in my cohort, so
(09:20):
I'm so sorry.
That was, that's definitely,
Which one was it?
I don't remember, but I rememberthat's the first, you know, that
was like the, the first interaction;and then, I added you on LinkedIn
and then you posted the internship.
So like, one thing led to another andthen we're here like two years later.
(09:40):
We've been together for two yearsnow, so you know, it's amazing.
People miss, so I think whatRobin is saying is so spot on.
So, it's results, right?
At the end of the day,business wants results.
They don't care aboutall the feel good stuff.
We make connections, blah, blah, blah.
But, it is that immeasurable stuff likethe network value of being an IDOL;
and I'm totally hyping this up becauseI believe in, what you've made there,
(10:03):
Robin, not just cause you're a podcastguest or we affiliates or anything.
I genuinely believe in whatyou have there, but the network
value can't be understated.
Having 3000 people, who've gone throughthe same experience, who understand
the level of education you've walkedaway with, who wanna support you, that
is a value in and of itself, asidefrom all the performance outcomes.
(10:23):
And, I think people forget that humanlike value is a really big value.
Yeah, I mean there's that quote, right?
Your network is your net worth,and I think that applies, you know,
especially when people are, youknow, trying to transition careers.
Talking about community, you know,we talked about how the cohorts have
(10:44):
grown and they have become larger.
How do you maintain that aspect ofcommunity now that the cohorts are much
bigger, like those connections betweenpeople, like what things do you do?
How has it changed?
How, how, how has it evolved for IDOL?
There's a lot of questions in there Rocio.
Yes.
I know.
(11:05):
That's okay.
I mean, it's definitely, it's definitelychanged and evolved in several different
ways, like the format of it, the platformthat we use and so on and so forth.
So, I could get into that if you wantto; or I can just tell you that at
this point, we have actually completelyredone our academy, and, you know, over
(11:29):
the years of getting the data and theresults and the feedback, you know,
what is it that they want more of?
And, we really have leanedmore into a school model.
And, what I mean by that it ismore structured and it actually is
looking a lot more like what I wastalking about, having learning teams.
So, yes, the community has grownthat actually just adds more
(11:51):
opportunities for more connections.
I have a couple of differentplaces that they gather.
It's actually called Gather Town.
I built it out and brand it,we call it the IDOL Cafe.
People can go into the IDOLCafe at any time to network
and meet with other people.
And so, that's one format.
We also do group sessions, where likethey have a leader that leads these group
(12:14):
sessions, but they're very informal.
We call them IDOL guide sessions.
That's another way that they network.
And then, the, another change that I'vemade to the, you know, the new version
of our school is to add learning teams.
And, those learning teams are smaller.
They're based on their time zone,and they are encouraged to meet
(12:36):
every week during their program.
And so, that way they have like smallinsular group, groups; and then, it
keeps growing, into the larger community.
So, there's several differenttiers of ways, you know, to
connect with one another.
And then, we even havespaces in our community.
We're on a platform called MightyNetworks, and we have spaces for
(12:56):
different interests like, you know,teachers, you know, you know, IDOL
teachers is what we call it, right?
So, anybody who comes from ateaching background, we group people
that are freelancers and so on.
So, we do it by interests andwe do it by learning teams.
We do it by cohorts.
We do it by whether they've graduated.
And so, there's a lot of ways forpeople to connect with others.
(13:19):
And, I've actually met aton of our academy, students
in person, at conferences.
And so, it just, it starts online,but it extends into the real world.
So there, it's a lot of, a lot of focuson community in different aspects.
Yeah.
How about mentorship?
(13:40):
Right.
Do you, is that an aspect also?
Because, we believe that mentorshipis a type of social learning
as well, a very important one.
Yeah.
It does include mentorship.
I didn't know if you finished yourquestion though, I didn't wanna interrupt.
Hmm,
Was that the question?
yeah, yeah.
Like what does the mentorshiplook like, in your program?
Yeah.
(14:00):
Now, for sure, that haschanged over the years, right?
In order to, you know, keep the pricereasonable in the beginning, it was group
mentorship; and then, you would get, youwould submit your assets and you would get
feedback from the academy coaches on everysingle asset that you submitted, right.
And so, that was anotheraspect of mentorship, but it
(14:20):
was more one-on-one, right?
They would submit their work andthey'd get expert feedback; and
they would do group mentorship.
In this new version of the academy,because, you know, over the
years I've realized that therereal, there really is a need for
more of a one-on-one connection.
And so, in order to build the bestprogram option, I have included, they
(14:44):
can now get one-on-one mentorship; andthat is just, they just go and click
a, click Calendly link with one of thementors that we have that are senior
instructional designers and up, so theycan get one-on-ones every single week.
They have the group sessions, theIDOL guide sessions, as we call
it, which is a group mentorship.
So, I still kept that.
And then, we do a live facilitated lesson.
(15:05):
So again, they have another access toa, an expert in the field to come and
get, you know, more questions answered.
And really, that is our effortto do everything within our power
to give them all the support andthe resources necessary in order
to be successful in the field.
So, mentorship is a huge part alsoof deliberate practice, which is like
(15:30):
my podium that I preach about is thatyou, you know, you cannot accelerate
your skills as quickly as many peoplewant to, and they wanna transition
into instructional design, unless yougo through deliberate practice; and
deliberate practice requires that youhave an expert coach or mentor, whatever
you wanna call them in the field, thatgives you feedback on every single thing,
(15:54):
every single asset that you create, right?
And, you focus on one skill at a time.
And,
as the communities have grown, likehave, has anything surprised you,
in how they've evolved or something?
Maybe they like took on a lifeof their own in a certain way.
Yeah.
I mean, they've definitelytaken on a life of their own.
I, you know, I used to feel like Ihad to keep the conversation going.
(16:18):
Maybe at, in the very beginning,but by the third cohort, it, it
really did start to run itself.
And, I think the, the key to that isthat it is, it truly is social learning.
They have artifacts.
They have tasks to complete.
They have goals that they all wanna reach.
They're on the same path, you know,and especially if they're in a cohort,
(16:42):
they're starting at the same time.
But, what I really found, likeheartwarming and a little bit, I don't
know if it was a surprise, but it wasthat how many people when they reach
their goals want to come, they stayinvolved in the community to give
back to those same people that werein their shoes, you know, a couple
(17:06):
of months or a year ago or two years.
I even have somebody that reached outjust the other day and she has now
been in the field for over two yearsand she wants to now come back, right.
Still has the community andthose people on her mind.
Oh, I'm ready to come and give backbased on all this experience I've
(17:26):
learned in the field after I graduated.
So, I think that's the most touchingthing that I've, I've found about that
other people, when they graduate, theyare, they become just as invested in
giving back to the community as I am.
Yeah, that's kind of like a measure ofsuccess that you can't really measure.
That idea of people keep coming back,because they found value and they think
(17:49):
that, you know, it can help other people.
And, you know, talking about measures,how do you measure the success
of a mass cohort in this case?
You know, IDOL Academy.
Now that's definitelychanged over the years.
I mean, I didn't even keep trackof success stories till June 2020.
(18:12):
I didn't have anybody self-report or any,unless they, I mean, they messaged me,
but I didn't like keep track of that data.
I just, you know, like did everything,cause the cohorts were so small.
So I, for me personally, everysingle person was my response,
my specific responsibility.
So, I mean, I had a hundredpercent success rate for all
(18:34):
three of the first cohorts.
By the time it got to a hundredand, and 50, well, then I was like,
well, I gotta measure somehow.
I can't message 150 peopleindividually all the time.
So, I set up a, you know, an intake form;and then, because now what we are an
authorized vocational school, we have morerequirements about how we need to measure
(18:58):
and track data and success and outcomes.
And, and so, in that regard, that's alsoanother part of why I have restructured
the entire IDOL academy in order to keeppeople on milestones and keep them moving
forward, keep it measuring their progress.
(19:21):
And then, of course, measuring how manyof them graduate; and so, I haven't
actually seen the first batch graduate yetcause we just enrolled the first cohort
and the new version of our school lastSeptember, and they won't graduate until
March, but I have a lot more measurementsin place to see like, okay, how many
of of them are meeting the milestones?
(19:42):
Are they meeting the milestones wherethey, we think that they should?
And, are they gonna graduate?
And then, after they graduate,you know, I have one-on-one career
coaching built into, Into the,into the new program and so.
And, their job truly is, this istheir job description, do everything
within your power to get thesepeople to reach their IDOL goal.
And, that's however many sessionsthey need with the career coach
(20:05):
in order to reach that goal.
And so, I'm hoping all those measures thatI've put in place will continue to track
and, you know, make outstanding results.
But it's, it's kind of been, I mean,I'm kind of embarrassed to say, but it's
a bit a little all over the place, butI have the measurements in place now.
Yeah, I can see that, especially withthe growth, like trying to figure
(20:29):
out how to accommodate everything.
And, you mentioned a little bit of thestruggles, what are some lessons that
you have learned along the way with,you know, dealing with mass cohorts?
Is there anything thatlike took you by surprise?
What do you have to adapt to?
And, I know I ask a lot of questions,but you don't have to answer all of them.
(20:49):
It's just me trying tobreak down my question.
What are some of the thingsthat I've learned along the way?
It's been a lot.
I mean, just, you know, you I'll useyou started and you run, you know,
your, a school for the very first time.
What all of the things that you'regonna learn about your communities?
I mean, I would say probably the mostimportant thing I have learned is
(21:14):
that, you know, you do need peoplein there that like the mentors and
the coaches and the faculty that wehave, those I think is a big part
of what keeps the community alive.
And so I know that, communities,not necessarily community managers,
but they are in a way, right?
(21:34):
So for us, they have specificroles, but in many ways they
are community managers, right?
Because, they keep the conversation going.
I think that, you know, their value andjust what that means to the community
to have leaders in the communityand support, and, even specifically,
(21:55):
saying to the faculty like your, partof your role is community management
and keeping the conversation going.
So, I think that would be one of mybiggest takeaways for social learning
is just, how important the team isto keep that social learning going.
How do you keep the team?
(22:15):
Like how, how does the team, how do youkeep the, this, the, uh, what's the word?
It's not stamina, but how do youkeep the team working like a team?
How do you in turn,
Pay them well.
No, I'm kidding.
That always works.
No, it's because of what I said earlier.
It's because they come back,because they have a why, right?
(22:38):
Yes, they get paid, but they have a whyand that why is that IDOL Academy truly
changed their lives, and so they comeback to change other people's lives.
So, I have a faculty full of heartand motivation to just serve.
So, that's number one.
Number two is, yes, of coursethey're compensated for their time,
(22:59):
but they are there for, they arealigned with my vision, right?
And, that is to do everythingwithin their power to support these
people to make that transition.
And so, I think those, thoseare the components, right?
That really make a bigdifference in our community.
And, it's not just the faculty, right?
(23:19):
It's like not everyone that,you know, gives back into the
community is a faculty member.
They might just be an alumni or they justmight be a student, you know, who maybe
has some experience in instructionaldesign there in the academy to upskill;
and so, they see, oh, their neighborcould use some of their insights.
And so, I think it's that combinationthat that keeps it rolling.
(23:41):
Yeah, the, the, anything that you do,I think one of the first things that
you have to figure out is the why.
Like, why are people there?
Why are people doing whatthey're supposed to be doing?
Because if you don't have that why,and you don't tap into that, why then?
The experience is definitely notgonna be the same for anybody, for the
instructors, for the people in the room,and it's just gonna be another training.
(24:03):
Yeah, and they all have this,and they have the a goal, right?
You know, we talk about, you know, we'retalking about communities and all that
kind of stuff, but just kinda like Imentioned earlier, like we know that
social learning has to revolve aroundsomething at the center, and that center
is a career in instructional design, nomatter what level that they're all at.
And so, they are all focused on thatcareer and all the different spokes
(24:28):
that come out of that, that nucleus of,you know, instructional design careers.
And so, because they all have this, youknow, shared goal and shared interest
and, and I gotta say a lot of 'em sharea lot of personality traits as well.
Mm-Hmm.
So, we, we definitely attract a similartype of people, which I think is another,
(24:50):
I think, you know, back to that earlierquestion, what's something that I, I
found that, you know, kind of interestingor surprising, and that is just how
much of, you know, the archetype orthe avatar of, of the type of people
that are attracted to IDOL Academy.
How much of the, theircharacteristics are shared?
Yeah.
(25:10):
I mean, I could go deeper, but I, I thinkyou probably know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I do.
I think that, you know, there, there'sa certain level of belonging that
everybody's looking for and, and youknow, I found it when I joined IDOL
and, and there's definitely, youknow, a lot of characteristics and we
would have conversations and sharedexperiences, especially those of us
that came from a teaching background.
(25:31):
There was a lot of commonalities there.
So, thank you for that, for creatingthat, you know, sense of community and
that sense of belonging and not justanother training program, where people
just go and get trained, and then theywalk away and they never hear it again.
I tell you what, if I would've gottenrid of social learning, I don't know if
I would've had the same results, but itsure would've been a lot cheaper to run.
(25:52):
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Don't say that.
I'm kidding.
Say it.
It's true though, but I'msaying I don't think I would
have the same results, right.
If you could just throw somebodyinto a self-paced program, right.
And let 'em run on their own, yeah, Idon't, I don't think at all that you
are gonna get the same kind of resultsthat we've had in our school hands down.
(26:15):
And, I could probably quantifythat in some way for you,
because there is a cost, right?
There is a cost, but when the resultsare more important, right, then the
cost it takes to run the program, wellthen you, you put the resources into it
Yeah.
so, that's that,
And, and it is moreimportant to me, right?
What's the point of a school if you'renot getting people to their goals?
(26:38):
Exactly, and you know, it happens incompanies too, where like people do
trainings just to do training because theydon't wanna spend the money, they don't
wanna, and they're doing the trainingsevery year and no one's learning anything,
and because, you know, budget or whatever.
But like, if you really put a programtogether where like people are
interacting with each other, causewhen you have that human connection,
you tend to remember things more andyou tend to, to that interaction and,
(27:02):
you know, showing people how to dothings and talking and discussing and
disagreeing and all of that, that, youknow, takes part in social learning.
People are more likely toremember and not repeat, you know.
And, I always bring upcompliance training.
Like if we did compliance trainingthe right way, we wouldn't have to
do it every year, in the sense oflike, you know, people get flagged
all the time, because it's justanother checkbox and who wants that?
(27:27):
Yeah, I mean, really when you're investingin the performance of your people, you
are, you should be investing in theresults and, and many times it is worth
the investment to build a communityaround what it is that you, you know,
the performance that you want, becausethat's gonna get you the better results.
And, of course, that directlyties in many ways to revenue.
(27:49):
I mean, even frankly, to therevenue of my school, right?
If I didn't get people results byincluding all the support and the social
learning, then I wouldn't have thereputation that we have that continues
to enroll the next generation of creativelearning designers into our program.
And it's, it's the same,it's the same with business.
(28:09):
Yeah, Nicole, Katie, anythingyou want to ask, talk, discuss.
I wanted to go back to the idea of likewhen you said the shared characteristics,
and I really, one thing I really loveabout IDOL is the do it messy philosophy.
And I feel like having the opportunityto be in that with everybody and
like see other people sharing, youknow, and, and just knowing it was
(28:30):
sort of a safe place to do that.
Yeah, I really loved that thatwas an element of the community,
so that you're not stuck.
Like if I were just by myself, it wouldbe like, okay, I would question everything
and, but just being able to see otherpeople sharing gave me a little bit
of bravery, so, yeah, I don't know ifyou wanna say more about do it messy.
Yeah.
That's so interesting that you mentionedthat as the example, Katie, because
(28:51):
that actually came out of the sharedcharacteristics that I found in my
student body, is that I found thatthe biggest obstacle for them to move
forward was their own perfectionism.
Mm-Hmm.
Of course, I recognize it causeI also am a perfectionist.
Nicole, I, I saw her raise her hand.
(29:11):
We know that she also is a perfectionist.
And, with that insight, I was like, what?
But.
You need to get over the perfectionism.
Well, how can I help thesepeople get over perfectionism?
And, that is to remind them thatthis is an iterative process.
That deliberate practicerequires you to do it messy.
And I, it was transformative.
(29:32):
It was transformative.
Not only did I end up writing a book,you know, to teach people how to design
instruction in a Do it Messy Approach;but, but even before them, I just created.
It was a, it was a Christmasbreak thing, I did, i, I've been
running, I'm an experimenter.
I love that you guys calledthis The Social Learning Lab,
because I've been experimentingon my students this entire time.
(29:53):
So, I actually ran an experiment whereI like pulled out a small group out of
a cohort like so, like a subgroup; andI put one mentor with this subgroup;
and I had her like go through everysingle thing with this small insular
group so that I could get more, youknow, critical data and an eye on
like, what is it that's stopping them?
What's keeping them fromreaching their goals?
(30:15):
What is it that they're not understanding,they're missing or whatever?
And, that's what I saw.
It was perfectionism.
It was self-doubt.
It was, oh, everything's gotta be perfectbefore I send it into the coaches.
And so I, you know, saw all thoseresults and it gave a spark to me.
And, that was, I think December 2020.
And so, I said, well, I'm gonnagive them a "Do it Messy" Jumpstart.
(30:38):
It's a 14 step jumpstart.
I built it out and I released it inJanuary 2021, and I was blown away that
just giving people permission to do itmessy, right, in order to get out of
their own ways, was just so transforming.
You go and you'll look at the testimonialsand the reviews or whatever for IDOL
(31:00):
Academy; and anybody from 2021 and on,they all mentioned, they all mentioned
do it messy, and that's, you know,knowing who my learners are, their
characteristics, what's holding themback, and just, and finding a different
mindset that could help 'em move forward.
I really like that, and I just wannalike double iterate on that 'cause it's
(31:23):
interesting, 'cause you've been saying itwith your business and to me that's kind
of the thing that puts you in the positionof leadership, where other people are
afraid to take that risk and do it messy.
But it doesn't mean you're doing itbadly, it just means you're doing the
best you can by that given moment intime, but like even with your business,
and I think this is something we canlatch onto if you're trying to design
your own mass cohort experience,like it didn't start at perfect.
(31:45):
Like you've got this beautiful IDOL worldwith these amazing graphics now, but even
you are saying like, I did this thing,I tried it, it worked for this size.
We got here.
It wasn't quite working, so wetried this thing, it worked.
We did the next thing.
And, I think that's a reallypowerful message, because it's,
it's what learning is and theperfectionism is not really learning.
It's like doing whatyou're comfortable with.
(32:07):
Oh yeah.
I mean it's even changed platforms.
I mean, our first communitywas on Facebook groups and
that did okay for a while.
And then, the students are like, I'm toodistracted when you keep me on Facebook.
I'm distracted, because every timeI get on Facebook, well then I get,
yeah, I see a cat video or whatever;and so, then we moved to another
platform, and even on that platform,we've probably made changes to the way
(32:28):
the community is laid out every singlecohort once we move to that platform.
So, even this cohort, we've madechanges to the way the community works.
Yeah, and...
What I hear is, it's about caring,listening, and not being afraid to
make changes, and then checking theresults to see what you need to do next.
(32:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Dr.
Sargent, is there anything that wehaven't asked you or we didn't mention,
or anything that you would like to discussaside from what we have discussed already?
Well, just the only little last thingthat I would mention is that there are so
many benefits to social learning, but Ithink, you know, just talking about, you
(33:11):
know, the emulating others, and there'sone more thing that I think happens
whenever you are like in a communityof practice, is that you are inspired
by others and the work that they do.
And, I think that is one of the thingsthat is also special about social
learning is that, yes, you know, we canall help each other do, you know, task
(33:32):
oriented things or whatever, but whenyou actually get to see someone's outputs
or their approach to something, right?
You are filled and inspired with, withnew ideas and I, for me, ideas just,
you know, that's my bread and butter.
It just lights me up.
I love being inspired andcommunities really do that
(33:54):
for me and people inside them.
Okay.
Well, with that, we have cometo the end of this podclass.
Thank you, Dr.
Sergeant, for being here, withus and sharing your story.
We can't wait for our lab mates to hearyour, you're inspirational yourself.
So, thank you for being here.
(34:16):
It's absolutely an honor to behere and I just love what you guys
are doing and I encourage you tokeep going with social learning.
It absolutely is critical to a lot ofthe success that people are looking for.
Thank you.
In today's episode, we explore thetransformative power of mass cohorts
and community-driven learning.
(34:36):
Some key takeaways includeintentional cohort structures,
foster supportive and enrichingprofessional development environments.
Scaling doesn't compromisequality, but requires thoughtful
design and shared growth.
The learning journey extendsbeyond individual experiences.
Community-driven learning should remainat the core of professional development.
(34:57):
And there you have it.
Lab mates.
Another enlightening episode in the books.
Now it's your turn for your experiment.
Reflect on the episode's insights,and create a visual representation
of your ideal learning community.
If comfortable, take a photo or createa quick digital shareable version.
Share it with friends, colleagues,or our own social learning lab
(35:18):
community, and let's spark somediscussion around social learning.
You can find the full experiment brief inthe show notes or the social learning lab
community on Facebook in the community.
You can also share your stories,get feedback and insights from
peers, and comment on others' ideas.
If you've enjoyed this episode, pleaseleave a review, like subscribe or share
(35:40):
so we can continue to build a supportivegroup of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
Quick!
Your company's growing and bringingon a wave of new hires, and your
onboarding program needs to scale.
How to keep the benefits of a moreintimate, small group learning
experience when you're suddenly servingmore than a hundred people at a time.
This episode is your backstage pass tothe world of mass cohorts and no, it
definitely doesn't look like a giantlecture hall where learners sit there
(00:22):
feeling bored, passive, and anonymous.
Hi lab mates.
Welcome to the Social Learning Lab, apodclass about social learning at work.
In today's episode, we examinewhat it takes to scale the
cohort learning experience from25 participants to over 100.
With Dr.
Robin Sargent of IDOL courses,you'll find out how Dr.
Robin has preserved that sense ofconnection and camaraderie while getting
(00:45):
real results for IDOL's Academy members.
Let's do this!
Hi lab mates.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Social Learning Lab.
I'm Rocio.
I'm here with my co-hosts,Katie and Nicole.
And today, we have a very special guest.
Please help me welcome Dr.
Robin Sargent from IDOL Academy.
Dr.
(01:05):
Robin Sargent is an entrepreneur,author of the Duet Messy approach and
a recognized top-one hundred learninginfluencer with a PhD in Education.
She has extensive experienceas an Instructional Designer,
Professor, and former Directorof Learning and Development.
Driven by her passion forcreative learning design.
She founded IDOL courses, IDOLTalent, and IDOL Academy, pioneering
(01:27):
innovative approaches in the field.
She aims to create an IDOL worldfor all learners through her work.
Yes.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you so much, Rocio.
And, we were talking just before,this is a full circle moment.
Yes, yes, yes, I did.
I did IDOL back in 2021, so it feelslike yesterday, but it's, it's been a
(01:50):
little bit, so now I'm here interviewingyou, so definitely, a success story
right here in front of you guys.
I
And, you got the bestboss in the industry.
Yes, yes, yes, I do.
I do.
And, I say it all the time how muchI love Nicole and our team and how we
came together was very serendipitous.
But, yay, so today we're gonna betalking about mass cohorts as a
(02:14):
way of professional development.
So, let's just get right to it.
So, tell us a littlebit about IDOL Academy.
So, IDOL Academy happens to be thefirst and only authorized vocational
school for instructional design andonline learning development; and so,
because we are a vocational school, wesee instructional design as a practice.
(02:37):
And, in order to learn and train inand to become an instructional designer
and e-learning developer, we put you indeliberate practice hands-on learning.
And, of course, there is a sociallearning component to our school, and
so we're a virtual vocational school.
Just be clear.
Okay.
(02:57):
We've been around for about five years.
It's five years this year.
Woo.
Congrats.
Can't believe it's already five years.
And, we've enrolled over 3000students and we have over 600
self-reported success stories.
I'm sure there's more, but that's howmany have self-reported and gotten their
IDOL courses Academy mug in the mail.
(03:20):
Wait, I have mine.
Me too
See right here.
I remember, not to derail theconversation, but I remember
when you were just starting theIDOL, become an IDOL podcast.
I was still in my old house with mycushy carpet and better acoustics.
And like, it's been really coolto watch it grow from just an idea
to this beautiful, wonderful spacefor people who are trying to enter
(03:43):
the field or develop their skills.
And, really in some ways, it's kindof ruffled a lot of feathers, because
it used to be that instructionaldesign was something that you learn
in a purely academic setting; and,we were the, you know, overeducated
nerds in companies, running theLearning and Development Department.
(04:05):
And so, to come along and say, no, it'sa vocation, it's a trade, and this is
how you, you know, should be trained upand act accordingly in the profession
has been a very interesting ride.
Yeah.
And, and, there's, there's peoplestill out there in the field that
don't think it's a trade, so definitelyhave had those conversations before.
(04:27):
So, thinking about mass cohorts,how many people would you say
enroll in a session of IDOL Academy?
Well, it's changed over the years.
I mean, I actually remember just aboutevery number of people that enrolled for
every single cohort, and we are actuallycurrently enrolling our 16th cohort.
(04:49):
And yes, and so for me, that'show I, that's how I remember
every, you know, what every groupwas like by their cohort number.
Like you can say, oh, I was from cohorttwo, or I was from cohort six, and
I'll know what year that is, what monththat was, and how many people enrolled.
So, when I started, it was in July, 2019.
My first cohort was 25 people.
(05:11):
My second cohort was 25 people.
In January 2020, we enrolled35 people, and I thought
like what a huge improvement.
And then, in June 2020,we enrolled 150 students.
And, at that time, that's also whenI started incorporating, you know,
(05:33):
coaches and mentors because I couldn'tserve 150 students all by myself.
And, from that, you know, June,2020, we've continued to grow.
And so, we average about a thousandstudents a year after starting in 2021.
Wow!
So, each cohort, you know, right now we'vekind of limited it to 300, because of
(05:57):
the amount of faculty and staff requiredto give everyone deliberate practice
and feedback and all those things.
So, our cap right now is 300 studentsand we're currently enrolling, so I
don't know what the final number is yet.
That's, that's a lot of growth
Yeah.
Five years from 25 studentsto almost a thousand.
And, why did you choose cohortsfor your flagship program?
(06:22):
Like when you started, you said like,this is gonna be like a cohort based.
Well, funny, I mean, we'retalking about social learning,
Yeah.
Yeah.
Social learning is about likeemulating other people and, and
their behaviors and, and what youexperience from others out in the world.
And, for me, I used to be theAssistant Dean at Shorter University
and I was the Assistant Dean ofa Professional Studies program.
(06:44):
The way that program ran is theywould meet at night to earn their
associates, their bachelor's,and their master's degree, right.
And, they would meet once aweek for four hours at night,
you know, from like six to 10.
And, they would have a learningteam and they would have a cohort.
So, they would have a group of people thatthey moved through every single class in
(07:05):
their, you know, degree track together.
Mm-Hmm.
And then, they also kept thesame learning teams throughout,
you know, the different tracks.
The different classes thatthey would go in, which built
some really great comradery.
It built, you know, an a built-innetwork for them, and they always
talked about their cohorts.
(07:25):
And, of course, I was a teacheras well as the Assistant Dean.
And I, then, I also enrolled in theMBA program at Shorter University
and experienced the cohort modeland the learning team firsthand.
And, I had never experiencedthat in any of my other studies,
and it was an eyeopener to me.
It just, just all the benefits thatcame from that modality or that method.
(07:51):
And, so for me, whenever I wantedto, you know, start helping people,
I wanted to do the same format.
I wanted people to be connectedand to support each other and to
network from the very beginning.
And so, that's why I startedwith my founding members and
I called them cohort one.
Yeah, there's a lot of advantage.
(08:11):
We, we believe over here, there's alot of advantages to cohort learning
and, and social learning and, andall the things that go together.
And you mentioned some of them.
For you, what is the number onesingle advantage that cohorts bring?
Just one?
If you had to choose one for you,what's the most important one?
(08:32):
Results baby.
Yeah.
It's asked to be theresults and the outcomes.
I mean, it is the data, the testimonials.
So, it's like hard data and, youknow, all those anecdotal stories
that I hear all the time, theyget the support that they need.
They get the confidence that they needin order to go and reach their goals.
And, not only that, because theyare connected and a community,
(08:56):
they hand each other jobs.
They refer each other to other jobs.
I mean, Rocio, you are an example ofthe, of the connection of community,
of getting connected, even with Nicole.
And, it just, it's proven over andover again in their, in the outcomes.
Yeah.
When, when I did IDOL, actually, Nicolewas a guest speaker in my cohort, so
(09:20):
I'm so sorry.
That was, that's definitely,
Which one was it?
I don't remember, but I rememberthat's the first, you know, that
was like the, the first interaction;and then, I added you on LinkedIn
and then you posted the internship.
So like, one thing led to another andthen we're here like two years later.
(09:40):
We've been together for two yearsnow, so you know, it's amazing.
People miss, so I think whatRobin is saying is so spot on.
So, it's results, right?
At the end of the day,business wants results.
They don't care aboutall the feel good stuff.
We make connections, blah, blah, blah.
But, it is that immeasurable stuff likethe network value of being an IDOL;
and I'm totally hyping this up becauseI believe in, what you've made there,
(10:03):
Robin, not just cause you're a podcastguest or we affiliates or anything.
I genuinely believe in whatyou have there, but the network
value can't be understated.
Having 3000 people, who've gone throughthe same experience, who understand
the level of education you've walkedaway with, who wanna support you, that
is a value in and of itself, asidefrom all the performance outcomes.
(10:23):
And, I think people forget that humanlike value is a really big value.
Yeah, I mean there's that quote, right?
Your network is your net worth,and I think that applies, you know,
especially when people are, youknow, trying to transition careers.
Talking about community, you know,we talked about how the cohorts have
(10:44):
grown and they have become larger.
How do you maintain that aspect ofcommunity now that the cohorts are much
bigger, like those connections betweenpeople, like what things do you do?
How has it changed?
How, how, how has it evolved for IDOL?
There's a lot of questions in there Rocio.
Yes.
I know.
(11:05):
That's okay.
I mean, it's definitely, it's definitelychanged and evolved in several different
ways, like the format of it, the platformthat we use and so on and so forth.
So, I could get into that if you wantto; or I can just tell you that at
this point, we have actually completelyredone our academy, and, you know, over
(11:29):
the years of getting the data and theresults and the feedback, you know,
what is it that they want more of?
And, we really have leanedmore into a school model.
And, what I mean by that it ismore structured and it actually is
looking a lot more like what I wastalking about, having learning teams.
So, yes, the community has grownthat actually just adds more
(11:51):
opportunities for more connections.
I have a couple of differentplaces that they gather.
It's actually called Gather Town.
I built it out and brand it,we call it the IDOL Cafe.
People can go into the IDOLCafe at any time to network
and meet with other people.
And so, that's one format.
We also do group sessions, where likethey have a leader that leads these group
(12:14):
sessions, but they're very informal.
We call them IDOL guide sessions.
That's another way that they network.
And then, the, another change that I'vemade to the, you know, the new version
of our school is to add learning teams.
And, those learning teams are smaller.
They're based on their time zone,and they are encouraged to meet
(12:36):
every week during their program.
And so, that way they have like smallinsular group, groups; and then, it
keeps growing, into the larger community.
So, there's several differenttiers of ways, you know, to
connect with one another.
And then, we even havespaces in our community.
We're on a platform called MightyNetworks, and we have spaces for
(12:56):
different interests like, you know,teachers, you know, you know, IDOL
teachers is what we call it, right?
So, anybody who comes from ateaching background, we group people
that are freelancers and so on.
So, we do it by interests andwe do it by learning teams.
We do it by cohorts.
We do it by whether they've graduated.
And so, there's a lot of ways forpeople to connect with others.
(13:19):
And, I've actually met aton of our academy, students
in person, at conferences.
And so, it just, it starts online,but it extends into the real world.
So there, it's a lot of, a lot of focuson community in different aspects.
Yeah.
How about mentorship?
(13:40):
Right.
Do you, is that an aspect also?
Because, we believe that mentorshipis a type of social learning
as well, a very important one.
Yeah.
It does include mentorship.
I didn't know if you finished yourquestion though, I didn't wanna interrupt.
Hmm,
Was that the question?
yeah, yeah.
Like what does the mentorshiplook like, in your program?
Yeah.
(14:00):
Now, for sure, that haschanged over the years, right?
In order to, you know, keep the pricereasonable in the beginning, it was group
mentorship; and then, you would get, youwould submit your assets and you would get
feedback from the academy coaches on everysingle asset that you submitted, right.
And so, that was anotheraspect of mentorship, but it
(14:20):
was more one-on-one, right?
They would submit their work andthey'd get expert feedback; and
they would do group mentorship.
In this new version of the academy,because, you know, over the
years I've realized that therereal, there really is a need for
more of a one-on-one connection.
And so, in order to build the bestprogram option, I have included, they
(14:44):
can now get one-on-one mentorship; andthat is just, they just go and click
a, click Calendly link with one of thementors that we have that are senior
instructional designers and up, so theycan get one-on-ones every single week.
They have the group sessions, theIDOL guide sessions, as we call
it, which is a group mentorship.
So, I still kept that.
And then, we do a live facilitated lesson.
(15:05):
So again, they have another access toa, an expert in the field to come and
get, you know, more questions answered.
And really, that is our effortto do everything within our power
to give them all the support andthe resources necessary in order
to be successful in the field.
So, mentorship is a huge part alsoof deliberate practice, which is like
(15:30):
my podium that I preach about is thatyou, you know, you cannot accelerate
your skills as quickly as many peoplewant to, and they wanna transition
into instructional design, unless yougo through deliberate practice; and
deliberate practice requires that youhave an expert coach or mentor, whatever
you wanna call them in the field, thatgives you feedback on every single thing,
(15:54):
every single asset that you create, right?
And, you focus on one skill at a time.
And,
as the communities have grown, likehave, has anything surprised you,
in how they've evolved or something?
Maybe they like took on a lifeof their own in a certain way.
Yeah.
I mean, they've definitelytaken on a life of their own.
I, you know, I used to feel like Ihad to keep the conversation going.
(16:18):
Maybe at, in the very beginning,but by the third cohort, it, it
really did start to run itself.
And, I think the, the key to that isthat it is, it truly is social learning.
They have artifacts.
They have tasks to complete.
They have goals that they all wanna reach.
They're on the same path, you know,and especially if they're in a cohort,
(16:42):
they're starting at the same time.
But, what I really found, likeheartwarming and a little bit, I don't
know if it was a surprise, but it wasthat how many people when they reach
their goals want to come, they stayinvolved in the community to give
back to those same people that werein their shoes, you know, a couple
(17:06):
of months or a year ago or two years.
I even have somebody that reached outjust the other day and she has now
been in the field for over two yearsand she wants to now come back, right.
Still has the community andthose people on her mind.
Oh, I'm ready to come and give backbased on all this experience I've
(17:26):
learned in the field after I graduated.
So, I think that's the most touchingthing that I've, I've found about that
other people, when they graduate, theyare, they become just as invested in
giving back to the community as I am.
Yeah, that's kind of like a measure ofsuccess that you can't really measure.
That idea of people keep coming back,because they found value and they think
(17:49):
that, you know, it can help other people.
And, you know, talking about measures,how do you measure the success
of a mass cohort in this case?
You know, IDOL Academy.
Now that's definitelychanged over the years.
I mean, I didn't even keep trackof success stories till June 2020.
(18:12):
I didn't have anybody self-report or any,unless they, I mean, they messaged me,
but I didn't like keep track of that data.
I just, you know, like did everything,cause the cohorts were so small.
So I, for me personally, everysingle person was my response,
my specific responsibility.
So, I mean, I had a hundredpercent success rate for all
(18:34):
three of the first cohorts.
By the time it got to a hundredand, and 50, well, then I was like,
well, I gotta measure somehow.
I can't message 150 peopleindividually all the time.
So, I set up a, you know, an intake form;and then, because now what we are an
authorized vocational school, we have morerequirements about how we need to measure
(18:58):
and track data and success and outcomes.
And, and so, in that regard, that's alsoanother part of why I have restructured
the entire IDOL academy in order to keeppeople on milestones and keep them moving
forward, keep it measuring their progress.
(19:21):
And then, of course, measuring how manyof them graduate; and so, I haven't
actually seen the first batch graduate yetcause we just enrolled the first cohort
and the new version of our school lastSeptember, and they won't graduate until
March, but I have a lot more measurementsin place to see like, okay, how many
of of them are meeting the milestones?
(19:42):
Are they meeting the milestones wherethey, we think that they should?
And, are they gonna graduate?
And then, after they graduate,you know, I have one-on-one career
coaching built into, Into the,into the new program and so.
And, their job truly is, this istheir job description, do everything
within your power to get thesepeople to reach their IDOL goal.
And, that's however many sessionsthey need with the career coach
(20:05):
in order to reach that goal.
And so, I'm hoping all those measures thatI've put in place will continue to track
and, you know, make outstanding results.
But it's, it's kind of been, I mean,I'm kind of embarrassed to say, but it's
a bit a little all over the place, butI have the measurements in place now.
Yeah, I can see that, especially withthe growth, like trying to figure
(20:29):
out how to accommodate everything.
And, you mentioned a little bit of thestruggles, what are some lessons that
you have learned along the way with,you know, dealing with mass cohorts?
Is there anything thatlike took you by surprise?
What do you have to adapt to?
And, I know I ask a lot of questions,but you don't have to answer all of them.
(20:49):
It's just me trying tobreak down my question.
What are some of the thingsthat I've learned along the way?
It's been a lot.
I mean, just, you know, you I'll useyou started and you run, you know,
your, a school for the very first time.
What all of the things that you'regonna learn about your communities?
I mean, I would say probably the mostimportant thing I have learned is
(21:14):
that, you know, you do need peoplein there that like the mentors and
the coaches and the faculty that wehave, those I think is a big part
of what keeps the community alive.
And so I know that, communities,not necessarily community managers,
but they are in a way, right?
(21:34):
So for us, they have specificroles, but in many ways they
are community managers, right?
Because, they keep the conversation going.
I think that, you know, their value andjust what that means to the community
to have leaders in the communityand support, and, even specifically,
(21:55):
saying to the faculty like your, partof your role is community management
and keeping the conversation going.
So, I think that would be one of mybiggest takeaways for social learning
is just, how important the team isto keep that social learning going.
How do you keep the team?
(22:15):
Like how, how does the team, how do youkeep the, this, the, uh, what's the word?
It's not stamina, but how do youkeep the team working like a team?
How do you in turn,
Pay them well.
No, I'm kidding.
That always works.
No, it's because of what I said earlier.
It's because they come back,because they have a why, right?
(22:38):
Yes, they get paid, but they have a whyand that why is that IDOL Academy truly
changed their lives, and so they comeback to change other people's lives.
So, I have a faculty full of heartand motivation to just serve.
So, that's number one.
Number two is, yes, of coursethey're compensated for their time,
(22:59):
but they are there for, they arealigned with my vision, right?
And, that is to do everythingwithin their power to support these
people to make that transition.
And so, I think those, thoseare the components, right?
That really make a bigdifference in our community.
And, it's not just the faculty, right?
(23:19):
It's like not everyone that,you know, gives back into the
community is a faculty member.
They might just be an alumni or they justmight be a student, you know, who maybe
has some experience in instructionaldesign there in the academy to upskill;
and so, they see, oh, their neighborcould use some of their insights.
And so, I think it's that combinationthat that keeps it rolling.
(23:41):
Yeah, the, the, anything that you do,I think one of the first things that
you have to figure out is the why.
Like, why are people there?
Why are people doing whatthey're supposed to be doing?
Because if you don't have that why,and you don't tap into that, why then?
The experience is definitely notgonna be the same for anybody, for the
instructors, for the people in the room,and it's just gonna be another training.
(24:03):
Yeah, and they all have this,and they have the a goal, right?
You know, we talk about, you know, we'retalking about communities and all that
kind of stuff, but just kinda like Imentioned earlier, like we know that
social learning has to revolve aroundsomething at the center, and that center
is a career in instructional design, nomatter what level that they're all at.
And so, they are all focused on thatcareer and all the different spokes
(24:28):
that come out of that, that nucleus of,you know, instructional design careers.
And so, because they all have this, youknow, shared goal and shared interest
and, and I gotta say a lot of 'em sharea lot of personality traits as well.
Mm-Hmm.
So, we, we definitely attract a similartype of people, which I think is another,
(24:50):
I think, you know, back to that earlierquestion, what's something that I, I
found that, you know, kind of interestingor surprising, and that is just how
much of, you know, the archetype orthe avatar of, of the type of people
that are attracted to IDOL Academy.
How much of the, theircharacteristics are shared?
Yeah.
(25:10):
I mean, I could go deeper, but I, I thinkyou probably know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I do.
I think that, you know, there, there'sa certain level of belonging that
everybody's looking for and, and youknow, I found it when I joined IDOL
and, and there's definitely, youknow, a lot of characteristics and we
would have conversations and sharedexperiences, especially those of us
that came from a teaching background.
(25:31):
There was a lot of commonalities there.
So, thank you for that, for creatingthat, you know, sense of community and
that sense of belonging and not justanother training program, where people
just go and get trained, and then theywalk away and they never hear it again.
I tell you what, if I would've gottenrid of social learning, I don't know if
I would've had the same results, but itsure would've been a lot cheaper to run.
(25:52):
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Don't say that.
I'm kidding.
Say it.
It's true though, but I'msaying I don't think I would
have the same results, right.
If you could just throw somebodyinto a self-paced program, right.
And let 'em run on their own, yeah, Idon't, I don't think at all that you
are gonna get the same kind of resultsthat we've had in our school hands down.
(26:15):
And, I could probably quantifythat in some way for you,
because there is a cost, right?
There is a cost, but when the resultsare more important, right, then the
cost it takes to run the program, wellthen you, you put the resources into it
Yeah.
so, that's that,
And, and it is moreimportant to me, right?
What's the point of a school if you'renot getting people to their goals?
(26:38):
Exactly, and you know, it happens incompanies too, where like people do
trainings just to do training because theydon't wanna spend the money, they don't
wanna, and they're doing the trainingsevery year and no one's learning anything,
and because, you know, budget or whatever.
But like, if you really put a programtogether where like people are
interacting with each other, causewhen you have that human connection,
you tend to remember things more andyou tend to, to that interaction and,
(27:02):
you know, showing people how to dothings and talking and discussing and
disagreeing and all of that, that, youknow, takes part in social learning.
People are more likely toremember and not repeat, you know.
And, I always bring upcompliance training.
Like if we did compliance trainingthe right way, we wouldn't have to
do it every year, in the sense oflike, you know, people get flagged
all the time, because it's justanother checkbox and who wants that?
(27:27):
Yeah, I mean, really when you're investingin the performance of your people, you
are, you should be investing in theresults and, and many times it is worth
the investment to build a communityaround what it is that you, you know,
the performance that you want, becausethat's gonna get you the better results.
And, of course, that directlyties in many ways to revenue.
(27:49):
I mean, even frankly, to therevenue of my school, right?
If I didn't get people results byincluding all the support and the social
learning, then I wouldn't have thereputation that we have that continues
to enroll the next generation of creativelearning designers into our program.
And it's, it's the same,it's the same with business.
(28:09):
Yeah, Nicole, Katie, anythingyou want to ask, talk, discuss.
I wanted to go back to the idea of likewhen you said the shared characteristics,
and I really, one thing I really loveabout IDOL is the do it messy philosophy.
And I feel like having the opportunityto be in that with everybody and
like see other people sharing, youknow, and, and just knowing it was
(28:30):
sort of a safe place to do that.
Yeah, I really loved that thatwas an element of the community,
so that you're not stuck.
Like if I were just by myself, it wouldbe like, okay, I would question everything
and, but just being able to see otherpeople sharing gave me a little bit
of bravery, so, yeah, I don't know ifyou wanna say more about do it messy.
Yeah.
That's so interesting that you mentionedthat as the example, Katie, because
(28:51):
that actually came out of the sharedcharacteristics that I found in my
student body, is that I found thatthe biggest obstacle for them to move
forward was their own perfectionism.
Mm-Hmm.
Of course, I recognize it causeI also am a perfectionist.
Nicole, I, I saw her raise her hand.
(29:11):
We know that she also is a perfectionist.
And, with that insight, I was like, what?
But.
You need to get over the perfectionism.
Well, how can I help thesepeople get over perfectionism?
And, that is to remind them thatthis is an iterative process.
That deliberate practicerequires you to do it messy.
And I, it was transformative.
(29:32):
It was transformative.
Not only did I end up writing a book,you know, to teach people how to design
instruction in a Do it Messy Approach;but, but even before them, I just created.
It was a, it was a Christmasbreak thing, I did, i, I've been
running, I'm an experimenter.
I love that you guys calledthis The Social Learning Lab,
because I've been experimentingon my students this entire time.
(29:53):
So, I actually ran an experiment whereI like pulled out a small group out of
a cohort like so, like a subgroup; andI put one mentor with this subgroup;
and I had her like go through everysingle thing with this small insular
group so that I could get more, youknow, critical data and an eye on
like, what is it that's stopping them?
What's keeping them fromreaching their goals?
(30:15):
What is it that they're not understanding,they're missing or whatever?
And, that's what I saw.
It was perfectionism.
It was self-doubt.
It was, oh, everything's gotta be perfectbefore I send it into the coaches.
And so I, you know, saw all thoseresults and it gave a spark to me.
And, that was, I think December 2020.
And so, I said, well, I'm gonnagive them a "Do it Messy" Jumpstart.
(30:38):
It's a 14 step jumpstart.
I built it out and I released it inJanuary 2021, and I was blown away that
just giving people permission to do itmessy, right, in order to get out of
their own ways, was just so transforming.
You go and you'll look at the testimonialsand the reviews or whatever for IDOL
(31:00):
Academy; and anybody from 2021 and on,they all mentioned, they all mentioned
do it messy, and that's, you know,knowing who my learners are, their
characteristics, what's holding themback, and just, and finding a different
mindset that could help 'em move forward.
I really like that, and I just wannalike double iterate on that 'cause it's
(31:23):
interesting, 'cause you've been saying itwith your business and to me that's kind
of the thing that puts you in the positionof leadership, where other people are
afraid to take that risk and do it messy.
But it doesn't mean you're doing itbadly, it just means you're doing the
best you can by that given moment intime, but like even with your business,
and I think this is something we canlatch onto if you're trying to design
your own mass cohort experience,like it didn't start at perfect.
(31:45):
Like you've got this beautiful IDOL worldwith these amazing graphics now, but even
you are saying like, I did this thing,I tried it, it worked for this size.
We got here.
It wasn't quite working, so wetried this thing, it worked.
We did the next thing.
And, I think that's a reallypowerful message, because it's,
it's what learning is and theperfectionism is not really learning.
It's like doing whatyou're comfortable with.
(32:07):
Oh yeah.
I mean it's even changed platforms.
I mean, our first communitywas on Facebook groups and
that did okay for a while.
And then, the students are like, I'm toodistracted when you keep me on Facebook.
I'm distracted, because every timeI get on Facebook, well then I get,
yeah, I see a cat video or whatever;and so, then we moved to another
platform, and even on that platform,we've probably made changes to the way
(32:28):
the community is laid out every singlecohort once we move to that platform.
So, even this cohort, we've madechanges to the way the community works.
Yeah, and...
What I hear is, it's about caring,listening, and not being afraid to
make changes, and then checking theresults to see what you need to do next.
(32:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Dr.
Sargent, is there anything that wehaven't asked you or we didn't mention,
or anything that you would like to discussaside from what we have discussed already?
Well, just the only little last thingthat I would mention is that there are so
many benefits to social learning, but Ithink, you know, just talking about, you
(33:11):
know, the emulating others, and there'sone more thing that I think happens
whenever you are like in a communityof practice, is that you are inspired
by others and the work that they do.
And, I think that is one of the thingsthat is also special about social
learning is that, yes, you know, we canall help each other do, you know, task
(33:32):
oriented things or whatever, but whenyou actually get to see someone's outputs
or their approach to something, right?
You are filled and inspired with, withnew ideas and I, for me, ideas just,
you know, that's my bread and butter.
It just lights me up.
I love being inspired andcommunities really do that
(33:54):
for me and people inside them.
Okay.
Well, with that, we have cometo the end of this podclass.
Thank you, Dr.
Sergeant, for being here, withus and sharing your story.
We can't wait for our lab mates to hearyour, you're inspirational yourself.
So, thank you for being here.
(34:16):
It's absolutely an honor to behere and I just love what you guys
are doing and I encourage you tokeep going with social learning.
It absolutely is critical to a lot ofthe success that people are looking for.
Thank you.
In today's episode, we explore thetransformative power of mass cohorts
and community-driven learning.
(34:36):
Some key takeaways includeintentional cohort structures,
foster supportive and enrichingprofessional development environments.
Scaling doesn't compromisequality, but requires thoughtful
design and shared growth.
The learning journey extendsbeyond individual experiences.
Community-driven learning should remainat the core of professional development.
(34:57):
And there you have it.
Lab mates.
Another enlightening episode in the books.
Now it's your turn for your experiment.
Reflect on the episode's insights,and create a visual representation
of your ideal learning community.
If comfortable, take a photo or createa quick digital shareable version.
Share it with friends, colleagues,or our own social learning lab
(35:18):
community, and let's spark somediscussion around social learning.
You can find the full experiment brief inthe show notes or the social learning lab
community on Facebook in the community.
You can also share your stories,get feedback and insights from
peers, and comment on others' ideas.
If you've enjoyed this episode, pleaseleave a review, like subscribe or share
(35:40):
so we can continue to build a supportivegroup of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
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