February 5, 2024 • 40 mins
Ahoy Labmaties! It’s time to sail away on this adventurous episode of The Social Learning Lab to learn more about the connection between the brain and social learning. In this episode, the Your ID team learns from the Learning Pirate, Lauren Waldman, on how “Joining Forces with your Brain” is the most effective way for social learning to take place. Are you ready to hop aboard the ship?
🧪The Social Learning Lab Facebook community.
🧪The Social Learning Lab LinkedIn community.
The Experiment
Click here.
Your Hosts
Katie Hynes, Instructional Designer
Nicole Papaioannou Lugara, Founder & Learning Strategist
Rocio Granela, Jr Project Manager
Special Guest
Lauren Waldman, Learning Scientist and Founder of Learning Pirate Inc.
Waldman is one of the first learning designers in the world to merge the operational function of the brain with cognitive theories to create large-scale learning designs. She has held leadership positions and designed for organizations globally. Lauren appears regularly on conference stages, podcasts, webinars,, and is a highly sought-after keynote speaker best known for her entertaining and interactive talks which invites her audiences to Join Forces with their Brains!
Interested in finding out more about Learning Pirate Inc.
Check out the series Joining Forces with Your Brain
Connect with Lauren on LinkedIn
Check us out at
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Some pirates give instead of steal.
On this episode of the SocialLearning Lab, we dig up treasures with
Learning Pirate, Lauren Waldman, andlucky for us, she's quite generous.
You'll walk away with gems ofwisdom about how to join forces with
your brain to create learning thatsticks more quickly and for longer.
So swap the PowerPoint deckand let us show you the ropes.
(00:21):
Ahoy, Labmaties.
We're super pumped to be here todaywith Lauren Waldman, learning scientist
and founder of Learning Pirate Inc.
And, I I think.
think, if you've seen Lauren atall, you've probably heard, "YARR".
Lauren is one of the first learningdesigners in the world to merge
the operational function of thebrain with cognitive theories to
(00:42):
create large scale learning designs.
She has held leadership positions anddesign for organizations globally.
Lauren appears regularly on conferencestages, podcasts, webinars and more.
And, she is a highly sought afterkeynote speaker, best known for her
entertaining and interactive talks,which is why we had to track her down
and get her on The Social Learning Lab.
(01:04):
And, she also invites her audiences tojoin forces with their brains, and we're
definitely gonna talk about that today.
But in other words, we're really superlucky to have Lauren in the lab with us
today and, we can't wait to get started.
So thank you for being here, Lauren.
Ya-Argh.
Hi everybody.
Happy New Year, or HappyNew YARR as I like to say.
Yes, it's just on the yourID side 'cause I realize I
(01:27):
always forget to do this intro.
So I'm Nicole, I'm, the founder andI guess chief learning strategist,
whatever my title is this week overat Your Instructional Designer.
But I'm not alone fromthe Your ID squad today.
So I don't know if, which oneof you want to share that you're
Rocio over here, Junior Project Manager.
And Katie, instructional designer.
(01:49):
Awesome.
So Lauren, I know we are big fans ofyour work and one of the biggest things
that we really enjoyed is the wholeidea of joining forces with your brain.
So, can you just tell us what exactly doesit mean to join forces with your brain?
It means, okay, first, it means that youacknowledge that you've got three pounds
(02:09):
of what my, one of my board members likesto call meatloaf, that we carry around up
in our heads and it runs the whole show.
It's our everything and to joinforces with it, cause I don't
like using the word control.
I think there's a lot of neurobabble and neuromarketing and they're
like, you know, take this pilland you can control this and that.
And, I'm like, no, no.
(02:31):
So, I like the terminology of joiningforces and that really means just
knowing enough about the operationalsystem itself, so that you can use it to
the best of its abilities, and whetherthat's for work, or for learning, or,
you know, navigating through a crowdedroom, or recognizing when you're not
paying attention and losing focus.
Like there's so many of these, likevery simple and amazing ways that we
(02:54):
can join forces with our brains andbasically interact with one another
a little bit better once we justunderstand what's going on up there.
Yes.
I love all of that and we're definitelygonna unpack some of that as we go
through this podcast episode today.
And so, you've already been out theretalking about this for a while, and one
(03:14):
of the things we've, we've gone throughit, we think it's amazing, but you have
this free mini course join, Joining Forceswith Your Brains accurately named, right?
And, we noticed that you take afew minutes to, kind of, have your
own social learning experiences andas your resident social learning
nerds, we wanted to talk about them.
So, you know, you like go on the streetto talk to real people and hear about
their learning experiences, and thenyou're pulling in your, your friend,
(03:37):
learning pirate scientist, Elliot.
And so like, what made you decide toincorporate these moments in your program?
So, those moments, those like social,so I wouldn't necessarily call those
social learning moments, right?
Because like just by thescience and by definition, that
wouldn't necessarily qualify.
And, there's my nerdcoming out in that answer.
(03:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those were like, those were putin as experiments, you know?
And yeah, we did go out and weconducted those live on the streets.
Really, it was to demonstrate and allowpeople to experience what their brains can
do when we give them the opportunity to,sort of, you know, really strategically
and intentionally work with it.
(04:21):
But those moments as well as, youknow, several of the others that
were embedded, you know, intothe design of the series itself.
You know, whether it was the factthat I was using novelty or whether
I was using things to guide someone'sattentional networks because I needed
them to focus, or, you know, insertingthose practice practices where
people could help to create a memory.
(04:42):
Those moments were so intentionally andstrategically designed in, because that's
how we design learning with science.
We use the best of what we know in orderto help activate someone else's brains
and to help, help them, not only justengage with the learning journey itself,
but we're really trying on our sideas the designers to help that encoding
(05:04):
process to create a transferable memory.
'cause what is learning without memory?
Yes, so this might be a good time to asklike, what, if anything, does cognitive
science teach us about learning?
Like what, what should we betaking away from the science
and the evidence that exists?
A lot.
(05:26):
You know, when we look at from, sort of,the methodology and the old, the, you
know, one of the oldest theories, right?
So when we look at the theory of socialcognitive theory, and that's going back
a long time, and what we learn is if wesort of merge it with what we know about
neuroscience, we can kind of collaborate.
So when we look at social learning theory,it's really about how do we learn with
(05:47):
one another, but how are we observing?
How am I observing how you are reacting?
How you are behaving?
How, how you're modeling, right?
Like that's the emphasis when itcomes to, sort of, the theory itself.
But when we look into the brain and welook into the neuroscience, we've got,
you know, billions of these wonderfulcells called neurons in our heads,
and some of them can do somethingcalled mirroring, and that's kind of
(06:10):
where the two come together, right?
So mirror neurons, basically,they've got like mechanisms that
that kind of can explain a littlebit behind social learning theory.
And that was really, you know howwhen we look at someone is, are those
particular neurons activated whensomeone is performing something or when
they're observing somebody else do it?
So there's a lot that we can say.
(06:31):
You know, I think social learning, whenpeople think about it, they're like,
oh, that just means we get togetherin groups and we have group chats.
And yes, that's true, but when you reallydig deep into the theory itself, you
understand that it's less about me justgoing in and having a chat with everybody.
It's me observing, and it'sme participating very actively
and intentionally in that act.
(06:52):
People always ask us, whatdoes social learning mean?
And, I'm like, well, it's really broad.
Like, we use it in a specific wayto talk about what we do here.
But it's, it is what you're saying.
It's the observation, it'slearning from and with one another.
You know, yeah, it is broad.
But we don't have to stick tosocial, I mean, I'll try to keep
us on social learning 'causethat's what the podcast is about.
But I don't know if there's anything elsethat you sort of feel is just essential
(07:15):
when it comes to the learning science thatmaybe isn't captured if we just talk about
social learning that you wanna share.
Oof.
you know, when we go into learningsciences, there's so much, right?
And, you are looking at itfrom theory and methodology,
which is one side of the coin.
But where my sort of, you know, expertand I don't wanna call myself an expert.
I'm never, no one's ever gonnabe an expert in the brain.
(07:36):
But I will say my, my specializations,which is understanding brain function,
understanding, you know, what isthis thing that we carry around
with us that's allowing you all tonod your heads right now and to,
yep, smile, emotional reactivityjust knew that was gonna happen.
And, just knowing those little things,right, is what is, you know, the
(07:58):
operational manual of these things and howdo we work a little bit better with it,
so that we can learn more strategic, moreintentionally, so we can design better.
And, that's really, youdon't have to know too much.
You don't have to be a neuroscientistin order to scratch the surface
of some of these things.
So, if we can understand things like,you know, if you're sitting there
(08:20):
and you're trying to learn or you'retrying to work and you're getting
to that point of frustration, oryou're of fatigue, are you really in
the best brain state to be learning?
No.
Your chemistry is doing thingsup there that you can't see.
The whole system is doing stuff that youcan't see, but you can tangibly feel it,
and then we can make decisions about that.
(08:40):
So when it comes to any type ofundertaking, whether it be, you know,
you're working on a project, you'rereally hunkering down to do some learning.
Just understanding a little bit moreabout the process of what your brain is
doing, changes everything, because likeI said, then you can join forces with it.
Then you can work with the operationalsystem as opposed to against it, which
(09:04):
quite often we, we usually all are.
So, it's, it's interesting 'cause youknow, we're, we're thinking about all
of these things and you're right, we, wedo get away often from best practices,
but, rather than harping on the negative,I would love to hear about maybe one
of the most impactful experiences thatyou've either had or maybe you were the
(09:24):
person who facilitated or designed, youknow, what would that most impactful
learning experience be for you?
So my, my personal one, like my personallike learning experience, that was
like, the most impactful was when Ifirst started studying the brain and
really was humbled and humiliated atthe same time by how little I knew
(09:50):
A) about the thing that makes me me.
But then, how little I knew about learningitself as someone who had been a teacher,
as someone who had been in learningdevelopment industry for as long as I had.
It was mildly embarrassing to be honest,and it was that experience that sort
of sparked me to leave the company thatI was working with at the time, start
(10:13):
Learning Pirate and, you know, reallyforge this new path because when you
understand like I did, and it was painful.
It was not a fun experience.
Like it was almost like going back to,you know, starting back in kindergarten,
not being able to pronounce words.
They were very scientific.
I had no idea how to pronounce them.
And, just really being reduced to avery humble student again; and then
(10:35):
recognizing, I have no idea how tolearn properly, because I think if
I did, this wouldn't be so hard.
Now, learning is hard.
It's meant to be hard.
We're changing our brains whenwe're doing it, but the way that
we go about it can be a lot easier.
And that's what I learned throughmy own experience and my own journey
into, into the neuroscience and,and then, you know, becoming the
(10:56):
translator and the practitioner,and, and all of these things.
But then, the most impactful.
There's been so many learning designsand so many great companies and so
many amazing human beings, but I thinkthe one that brought me to tears was
during, it was just at the end, justkind of towards the end of the pandemic.
(11:18):
And, I was here in Toronto and a,a company had reached out to me.
They were a nonprofit company and theywere for newcomers, coming into to the
city; and this was just around the timethat the Ukraine war had broken out,
and we had a lot of people coming in.
You know, we took in a lot of immigrants,but this newcomer center was really
struggling, because they had 400employees being managed by 50 managers.
(11:42):
Everyone was being trauma dumped on,and everyone was being traumatized
in one way, shape, or form.
So where I was originally called in todesign for, for something else, when
we realized what was happening and themanagers really needed support in order
to support their, you know, hundredsof people, we switched gears and
myself and my other board member, Dr.
(12:03):
Chris Lee, we created a program calledHow to Human and the How to Human
Program taught people the fundamentalsof the brain, but we really looked at
it from what's emotional regulationand how do you monitor that and
how do you like, help yourselfwhen you're really going downhill.
And then, we looked at the cognitiveside of things, so that you can
think and you can work and youcan like do the best that you can.
(12:24):
And then, we looked atthe behavioral side.
I couldn't imagine the impact thatthat program would've had on these 50
managers who every two weeks showed up.
Not one dropped off of the program andthey were implementing everything that we
were teaching them like week after week.
Probably, the, the moment thatbrought me to tears, I will never
(12:45):
forget this, is I had to go out toCalgary, Alberta to deliver a keynote
and it was the last session that wehad with these, these 50 managers.
They were so fantastic and I had letthem know like, "Hey guys, like I have
to, I gotta drive back into the city.
So I gotta jump off early".
And, when the time came for me tojump off the, the Zoom call and I said
goodbye to everybody, every single oneof them turned on the videos of their
(13:09):
cameras and just thankful and humbled andjust told me how much they, and I just
started bawling, freshly makeup done.
I was just like, that's when I realizedthe, the profound impact that we can
have and, and what we can do to supportand, you know, everything when we just
(13:30):
understand the operational system, andto this, to this day, it's probably
one of the most profound and impactfullearning designs I've ever done.
That sounds amazing.
And also just such a, you know, weget caught up on metrics and not that
they're not important, but like thehuman impact that's immediately obvious.
There is, just so amazing to hear about.
(13:52):
and I can tell everybody that, likein this is, this is like the, the
neuroscience in me, is, as I'm recallingthis story to you, I can feel my heart
rate started to accelerate and that mybody has started to go into a different
place, because it's tangibly associatingthose memories with that feeling.
And it's like, I'm just re it's,it's, this is how a nerd relives
(14:14):
or experiences by like recalling.
I can literally feel what my brain isdoing in order to help me bring forward
those memories to tell you that story.
That's kind of a beautiful thing.
I'm second-hand nerding causeI'm, I'm getting goosebumps.
Right.
That's joining forces withyour brain right there.
I feel like when I was hearing you talk,you recall some of the stuff we were
talking about last season with Lyle,who he owns a, a clinical practice and a
(14:38):
employee, you know, assistance program,workplace wellbeing armed to the business.
And so, emotional regulation came up andI know Rocio, like I started thinking
about you, because it was a reallyinfluential and I guess point of interest
for you when we were talking about it.
So, I don't know that, I'm just, I guess,wondering if you know what Lauren's saying
(15:00):
is resonating with the two of you sinceI've been monopolizing the conversation.
I'm just listening.
I feel like every time we have oneof these episodes where we're talking
about like psychological safety,we're talking about the brain.
I just go into this like, and startlike analyzing my life and, and Lauren
is talking and I'm like thinking aboutmoments where I've had those feelings of
like, you relive something and your, yourbody has the same reaction or starts to
(15:25):
feel that same reaction that you felt atthat moment where it actually happened.
So, that has happenedto me a couple of times.
And, how amazing that like, you know,you know all these things and you're
so, so self-aware of your brain and yourbody, and you can like pinpoint, right?
Like, this is happeningbecause this is happening.
And, how you said like, oh, there you go,you're nodding and now I knew you were
(15:47):
gonna smile because that's the reaction.
So like, I can imagine you, like everytime you talk to somebody, you're,
you're already like thinking aboutlike this reactions and why they're
happening like at the same time.
That's amazing.
It is a, it's a superpower.
Yeah.
And I could tell you from the, when I,when I started learning all of this, and
(16:07):
then, I started building my board and,you know, the science, the scientists
and the scientific community, excuseme, they, they really just welcomed me
and they really embraced me into it.
And, I just remember with every, youknow, neuropsychologists that I met with
every new neuroscientist that I met.
And, I remember asking themlike, how do you do it?
How do you walk around knowing evenlike, you know, so much more than I do.
(16:28):
Like I'm so much more aware we're, andnow that I'm at the level that I'm at,
you know, we have these conversations withmy colleagues and it's crazy, because we
are a little, that little bit more aware.
Mm-Hmm.
And, it's a lot of, it's a lot offun too, because I think, as you saw,
some of you who've seen the series,we get to mess around with people too.
So, all for the sake of learning.
(16:50):
But, yeah, it, it is pretty amazing whatyou can do when you actually understand
what's, what's going on up there.
Yeah, I think it, it also makesyou more understanding of other
people's and how they react tothings and kind of makes you take.
When you're, that self-aware of howthings work makes you take a step back
(17:12):
and understand people's reactions tothings a little better and with more
understanding, and less, take it lesspersonal, I guess, I would think.
I'll share a story if you'll,if you'll permit me to.
I, I work in an officehere in downtown Toronto.
And, I remember just taking a breakone day to go grab a coffee and walking
(17:33):
into the coffee shop; and there was aman in the shop who was quite agitated
and start raising his voice, and he wasa larger man, so people were getting
a little bit, a little bit scared.
And, he was obviously, youknow, he didn't have a home.
And, you know, we, we do like many,many places in the world, we are, we
are suffering a, another pandemic, whichis a mental health pandemic globally.
(17:54):
And, the people who were behind thecounter, they, they were not handling
that situation very well at all.
And, in those moments, even I have tostop and, sort of, assess and, and be
like, is this okay for me to approach?
Like I, I will.
How are you speaking?
What's the tone of your voice?
Where are your body movements going?
Just to see can I intervene and,and sort of help in any way?
(18:15):
And, I felt that I could.
This man was asking for a sandwich.
He just wanted, he wanted a sandwich,so I stopped and I said, are, "hey,
I'm like, you're hungry, huh?"
He's like, "yeah".
And like, "how's work been lately?"
And, he stopped and this, he must'vebeen about six five, and I'm all of five
three, like I'm a tiny little human.
(18:37):
And, he just looked down at me andthe whole, his whole body shifted
and the look in his eyes from someonewho had just spoken to him like he
was just your normal, everyday human.
And, the situation was diffused.
We got him a sandwich and wegot him out of there, but it
was everybody else's reactions.
(18:58):
And, I don't blame anybody for that,like humans, we are some of the most
unpredictable things on the planet.
But if, like you said, Rocio, likeif we can understand this a little
bit more, then maybe you can be alittle bit more empathetic and maybe
you will know how to communicatewith people a little bit better.
And, those are things even formyself that I've learned so much
more about how I was communicating.
(19:20):
And what, how, what wasmy emotional triggers?
And you know, when, what weremy feelings going off the rails?
And you know, when was Ibeing passive aggressive?
Any of any of those number ofthings, those human things that
happen with us, but, you know,it's quite, quite phenomenal what
happens when you understand what'sgoverning us on a moment to moment.
A second to second basis is chemicalreactions and electrical signals.
(19:42):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that it's really hard, becausesometimes, you know, it's a lot, we take
a lot of the stuff personal or like as a,as an attack or, you know, and that goes
back to things that we have gone through,that people touch on and it like activates
something in us, but like the onlything we can control is like our actions
and our reactions, what somebody elsedoes is totally, you know, up to them.
(20:05):
So I'm very conscious of that,that like how you react doesn't
necessarily, you know, say anythingabout me or say anything about us.
And I think in that moment, everybodywas just reacting to him being agitated.
Right?
And everybody was upset because,oh, you know, like, you're not
the only one here and why are youmaking, but that was not the issue.
The issue was what was going on,you know, that you were able to
(20:27):
recognize that was something beyondjust asking for a sandwich because
he really wanted a sandwich, right?
I mean, take that into the boardroom.
You know, we've all been, we've all satin meetings where someone's getting a
little bit heated or they're gettinga little bit upset or agitated, right?
And we have no idea if that person hada horrible morning, you know, and that's
been triggered, or someone said somethingin there that had triggered something,
(20:48):
you know, acute, you know, cues andtriggers when it comes to behavioral
science, those are real things, youknow, and it takes only one cue to then,
you know, provide a behavioral actionthat's associated with that person.
You know, it's, it's also,yeah, like you said, it's how
do, how do we respond to it?
How do we respond?
That's this.
That's the power of joiningforces with your brain, right?
(21:09):
It's how, if I understand, andfrom a, a colleague of mine, Dr.
Kate Truitt, who is just a phenomenalneuroscientist and psychologist
who studies mostly on the amygdalaand emotional emotion and trauma.
She was the one in her work who taughtme is that if we understand that
the emotional processing centers ofour brain, these two tiny, little,
(21:29):
tiny pieces called the amygdala areacting four times faster, four times
faster than our executive function.
Well, what does that tell us?
We know who's who we know who'srunning the show right away, but we
also know that we can take very slow,intentional, calming breaths to, to
tell the central nervous system, totell the amygdala like, yo, it's cool.
(21:51):
We, we're good.
Like, we need our brain now.
I need like, I need my executivefunction right now to deal with this.
And like, you, like going off therails in the background is not helping.
So it's all of those little things thatwe can learn and that we can teach that,
that make everything so much better.
Then obviously you know, wecan learn to design these.
Yeah, like how many times havewe, how many times have we acted
(22:15):
in the moment, and then like 10minutes later we're like, "yeah, no,
that was not that big of a deal".
Like, that reaction was not therequired reaction for the very small
problem that I was dealing with.
I am curious cause earlier wewere saying like just getting a
group of people together, right?
Doesn't ul- ultimately necessarily resultin a learning experience, even though that
may be, you know, as learning designers,our intention when we're, you know,
(22:37):
creating these learning experiences.
So, I'm curious from your perspective,joining forces with your brain, like what
would need to be in place for a reallyeffective social learning experience.
So we get people together, butwhat else needs to be happening?
We, you know, cause you mentionedpsychological safety, right?
Like you have to feel safe in the group.
What else would you saywould be a good ingredient?
(22:58):
You know, it's really, and I get so manyof these questions, so my, my specialty
is in scientific learning design.
That's where I've taken, you know, myscience, my science background, and
my learning background and as an L&D.
And, you know, all my L&Ds whoare listening right now, I'm,
I'm one of you, I'm one of you.
I was a CLO.
I was an instructional designer.
Like I've done it all right?
So, for me, what it really doescome down to is you have to be so
(23:22):
intentional about what you're doing inthe design and why, and if it's like,
I'm gonna put everybody into this groupright now so that they can discuss.
Okay, but why am I doing that?
Is it because I need a break as thefacilitator, you know, uh, come on.
And you're all laughing, so Iknow you've all done it before.
I've done it too.
(23:42):
Never.
I've never just stuck everybody in azoom room so I could take a breather.
Like, but it's, it is really,it comes down to those things.
So if I want to design somethingthat's really going to elevate a social
learning moment, I'm either gonna makeit you know, observable which is I'm,
again, using someone's attention tofocus them on one particular thing.
(24:05):
So am I asking you to observeand model a certain behavior?
Am I asking you to, you know, I'mnot, I'm not the biggest fan of role
play, but it is very effective in somecertain, in certain situations, but
a lot of adults are not comfortablewith role play because you're
asking them to tap into imagination.
(24:26):
And, a lot of us just don'tdo that very often as adults.
And sometimes as kids,we didn't do it either.
You know, everyone probably has,I can, I can say this to everyone
who's listening right now.
I'm certain that the majority of ushad an experience in school, where we
had, where the teacher said, "okay, nowyou're gonna pair up and you're gonna
pretend and you're gonna role playand you're gonna pretend to do this".
(24:47):
And, your whole body just went, "oh no.
Is everyone else watching me?
And who's listening?"
And I, and we carry that over.
We carry that over, you know, to ouradult, our adult experience as well.
But if you're going to do somethingthat's social, design it intentionally
don't just put it in as an activity,understand why you're doing it.
(25:08):
What is the actual transferableskill, knowledge, or behavior
that it is supporting in the actof putting in that social moment?
Yeah, I think ev- every, so we haverecorded a, a couple of prerecorded,
a couple of episodes for this seasonand every episode the word, this
being intentional about the sociallearning moments that we put into
(25:29):
the design has been like, has come upevery, everybody that we have talked
to has talked about intentionality.
and why aren't we doing it?
I know we're not.
We're not.
Everybody, everybody's saying itand we talk about it, but it's not
happening in the design out in thewild when people are designing.
(25:49):
because they don't know how
Yeah.
This is, this is the thing.
This is the whole, this is the wholereason why I created Joining Forces with
Your Brain, the series, is if my, ifI could wave my white flag as someone
who was a teacher, an internationalteacher, who then became a teacher
trainer, who then worked my way upthrough learning and development in
(26:11):
the industry up to CLO, at that pointis when I realized that I didn't
know how to do these things properly.
We're going 15 years.
That's why.
We just have to admit thatwe're not doing it wrong.
We just can be doing it better now.
So, we have to be open to it.
Isn't that crazy?
We're telling learning, we're tellinglearning and development and learning
people that you need to learn.
(26:32):
And they're going, nah, we're good.
We know what we're doing.
No.
I'm like, oh, but do, do you, you know.
You know, because there's been so manyinstances where people are saying, "Hey
Lauren, can you, can you take a look atthis little module that we, we wrote?
Or can you just take", and I said, "areyou prepared for me to tear it apart?"
And like I'm sure your contentsis there, but as far as learning
(26:55):
efficacy, nah, most of them aren't.
Don't even get me started onAI content development now.
We won't.
It's all garbage and garbage out.
That's all I'll say about that.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Katie, I saw you just hit that.
Well, I was curious 'cause onechallenge that we often think about
(27:16):
is like, okay, maybe it's like a new.
You know, group that we're tryingto form, you know, a social,
social learning digital cohortand we want it to really take off.
But it's like we've talked beforeand it's on the blog as well that
Nicole has written about, like thefeeling of going first and like kind
of when you don't have a model forhow to behave in this particular.
(27:36):
I'm thinking of specificallyonline communities, but it
could be more broad.
So, I'm wondering if, like, you couldspeak to what's going on in the brain
in that process and, how we might designthe beginnings of something as social, a
new social learning group better so thatpeople feel more comfortable joining.
You know, it's interesting because whenwe look into behaviors and experiences
(27:58):
and what's made up, you know, what's,what's called the schema, which is you
should know this, it was in the series.
How is someone coming into that?
What is their former behaviors?
What are their former attitudes,you know, and, and their habits
in those, in those situations.
Now, then we've got, there's, there'sthose things that we can sort of like,
(28:19):
understand a few of the variables,but then there's the other things.
Because I don't know you, Idon't know what's in your brain
as far as previous memories.
I don't know what might makeyou happy or sad or you know,
really like curious or whatnot.
And that's something that we can, we all,sort of, need to, to explore together.
And I think when we come together on alevel playing field, and we can choose the
(28:40):
choose something, you know, if everyone'scoming together to learn, well guess what?
You've just found thecommon, the common bond.
Unless there's people in therewho have been told that they have
to, in which case you really wannaidentify those people quickly.
It's like, my boss made me be here.
I'm like, oh, okay, let's,let's work through that.
(29:01):
So, and there's gonnabe some of that as well.
But a lot of the time these days, youknow, when people are coming together,
you know, we did a cohort, the firstcohort program of a scientific learning
design with the offbeat community.
And I mean, that's a perfect example.
I didn't know them.
They didn't know me.
They didn't know each other.
They were from different, likeso many parts of the globe
were represented in that.
And the commonality was, we're curious.
(29:24):
And we came here to learn.
It's like you read my mind becauseI was actually just about to
ask you about how that's going.
So how is it going?
The cohort.
You going to do more of it?
Yeah.
So the, oh, it was, it was wildly amazing.
It was great.
It was so cool.
Like, first of all, we had likeparticipants from literally, like
they, they, we covered so many partsof the globe, which was so cool for me.
(29:45):
Different industries, you know, differentapproaches are coming and, and wanting
to, to learn about these things for,for different reasons, which is just
so awesome for me, because I'm justa curious, curious little monkey.
And, it was amazing.
You know, I think, for me to be ableto transfer my skill and knowledge
to other, you know, there werecoaches, there were instructional
(30:08):
designers, there were L&D managers.
You know, we had a littlesprinkling of everything.
I think that's what's really allabout right, is if we're going
to change the way that things aredone, we need to teach the change.
it was such a, a fulfilling,a fulfilling thing.
I think the coolest thing about thatfor me was, you know, as it was the
(30:32):
first, first of its kind, you know, Ido a lot of internal workshops for, for
L&D teams and, and big organizations,but a lot of them, it's, you know,
maybe two, three sessions at most.
And this went on for six weeks, so wehad a lot more time to, and I can tell
you it, we got to the, the sixth session,the last session, and I was like.
How is this over?
We have to keep going.
(30:53):
Like, there's so much more,and we all felt the same way.
There's just like so much more.
But I think, you know, when, when youstart the journey about learning, you
know, it's, they came in wanting to knowhow do I design learning better using
science and understanding my brain?
And then, similar to what happens,happened to me in my journey, it
happened to them, which was you startto realize you've come into this
(31:16):
for a professional reason, but it'sgonna start to change you profoundly
as the human being that you are.
You're gonna walk out every session andyou're gonna see things differently.
You're gonna experiencepeople differently.
You're gonna be more observantof what you're doing differently.
And, that to me was like, watching otherpeople go through what I had gone through,
like, you know, eight years ago, almosta decade now, was really, really cool.
(31:40):
And yeah, I can't wait to, tosort of follow up with them
and see how things are going.
And, yes.
I have agreed to do another cohortwith the Offbeat, and that's gonna
be starting at the end of February.
And I think it's up for the,I think they've announced it.
So yeah, registration's open for that.
That's awesome.
By the time we launched thisepisode, I forget the exact date,
(32:00):
but I think that'll be pretty close.
So if you're listening and you'reinterested, like what time is
better than now, I love that.
Before we kind of ask our closing stuff,I would just ask, you know, you've
designed so much, you've seen thisindustry from all these different angles.
You've gotten to know the brains.
Is there one or maybe more actionablestrategy that you just think.
(32:23):
This should be applied way morefrequently in the work we do
in learning and development.
Like, something specific thatwe can all take back with us
today and start doing right now.
You know, I always, the, I've been usingthis analogy for like a really long
time, but I feel like it's, it, it's,it holds true, which is any, most of
(32:44):
the stuff that I look at, it's, there'sa fire hose worth of content coming at
the, at the people on the other side.
It's just too much.
Right.
And, it's not, again, I hate to saythese two words again, but strategy
and intention, they go a long way.
So, what I encourage, you know, mydesigners to do, and I understand, I'm
gonna caveat this with, I understand thatyou've got your stakeholders on the other
(33:06):
side going, no, but we want this there andwe want this there, we want this there.
I get it.
But what you can do is, picture a gameof Jenga and each one of those blocks
represents a piece of the content.
Start removing blocks.
If your tower stays stable, you're okay.
(33:27):
When it starts to get wobbly, you mighthave to add some of the content back
in, but keep removing until you, untilyou wobble and get to the good stuff.
I love that visual so much.
That's great.
This is the second time Jenga hascome up in one of these episodes.
Oh, no way.
I feel like we need to havea virtual Jenga session.
I don't even know where we find one,but I'm just saying it could be fun.
(33:48):
But it makes perfect sense, andI think it is learning design 101
and somehow it escapes us, causeI guess, 'cause it's stakeholder
pressures fire hose for us, right?
Sometimes we're getting theinformation too fast to sit and
make sense of it before we haveto deliver or whatever it is.
But I love that.
I think that's really just awonderful way to think about it.
You know, how many blocks can I pull?
(34:10):
Yeah, but it's also, I think, part of thereason why I am, I'm advocating and, you
know, really sort of leading this battleof change in the industry and change to
the learning is, because if you don'tknow the reason why, when you go to have
that conversation with the stakeholder,it's just gonna fall short, right?
(34:31):
You need to be able to explainthat the human brain cannot,
cannot process and take in thatmuch at this time, in this way.
So if you, you know, when I speak tothem, I said, "if you want to triple your
budget so that we can repeat this forthe next three years, then absolutely I
(34:52):
will do exactly what you want me to do.
And your people are not gonna learneffectively, and we'll not be able
to transfer this, and we'll have torepeat it over and over and over again.
So if you wanna triple your budget,that's great, but if you wanna actually
invest in upskilling humans on howto be human so that you don't have to
do that; and so they can learn and,and work and be just amazing people.
(35:14):
Okay, well, let's explore the brain.
Let's join forces with it a little bit".
Yeah, I think we need to stopseeing training as a checkbox
to meet some kind of, you know,compliance or whatever it is.
That, oh, we just need a training here.
This is gonna solve it.
See you next year in the sametraining with the same information.
(35:35):
And, we can check that box again nextyear, and then you're just wasting money.
And money, right?
time and money.
That's the one thingeveryone wants to, to save.
And it's, you know, thebusiness side of things.
What, what I find almost comical isthat we'll prove the ROI on this.
I'm like, well, how much have you spenton, on repeating, you know, learning?
I'm like, okay.
Like, oh, and then the best oneis, well, we don't have any budget.
(35:57):
I'm like, "Hmm, but you had budget whenLMSs became popular back in the day;
and you had budget when micro learningbecame like a, the next trend; and
then you had budget when VR was likeall of a sudden like really popular;
and now you've got budget for AI.
So, you, you do, but are you usingthat budget strategically and
intentionally to help the humans.
(36:17):
Mm-Hmm.
The humans, fundamentally learn howto learn better, because if you're
not investing in that, you might aswell just be giving the money away.
We're all nodding.
It's just like a, a moment of silence forall the learning that has been built, only
to go off and die cause it was really bad.
Yes.
We just, we'll just, we'll justpour one on the sidewalk for that.
(36:41):
I feel like that's the perfect placeto land this conversation cause
I, if you, if you didn't listen tothe rest of the episode, which you
probably did to get here and Lauren'sfascinating, so I'm sure you did.
But like that, that to me, is it, right.
Like strategy, intention and I thinka little bit of sales, like being
willing to be an educator and fightthe good fight and not just be like,
yeah, sure, we'll, we'll do what youwant without pushing back a little.
(37:04):
Would, would you say that's thebig three we can do like today?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The only way that we're gonna changeis not through talking anymore,
but we gotta actually take action.
And if that means that you go aheadand you do the design that you
think is the right design, do it.
Ask for forgiveness, not permission.
That's the pirate way.
That's it.
(37:24):
And just like that.
And just like that.
Lauren never worked again.
No, no.
I think we're, we're fullagreement with you here.
It's a little bit of subversion, right?
Like you have to give them enough to belike, yes, we listen, but actually, and
then they're like, wow, this is betterthan we thought or we could imagine.
I'm like, yeah, 'cause you let usdo what we needed to do, right.
(37:48):
Exactly.
Well, Lauren, this conversation has beenamazing and I know that, you know, if six
weeks of a cohort wasn't enough, that,you know, little more than a half hour
is definitely not gonna be enough foreveryone to learn all the wonderful things
that they could be learning from you.
So if people wanna continuelearning about you and your
work, where can they find you?
(38:08):
First of all, you can go to the LearningPirate website, and that's where, where
you can discover what's going on with me.
You can meet some of the board memberswho are up there if you want to dive
into your brain a little bit and learningand just the antics and the craziness
that I get up to when I film theseries, Joining Forces With Your Brain.
The first, the five chapters that westill have up for free are on YouTube
(38:29):
and they're also up on the website.
And then, we've got the secondrelease happened this past spring.
And then, whether or not there's,you know, I wanna continue designing.
I definitely wanna continue the series.
I have so much fun doing it.
It's very hard, but yeah, you want,that's the sort of the end of the, the
last chapter of the last of the seriesrelease was, I'm only doing it if you guys
(38:51):
want it, so give me a "YARR" if you do.
Do we?
Can we YARR?
Oh, everyone can YARR.
Yeah.
I have no shame clearly.
Well, thank you again, Lauren.
If you know you wanna listen to thisepisode and just pin it a hundred
times, listen to it over and over again.
Put it in the background while you'redoing all your work because I, I
(39:13):
couldn't agree more that, you know,understanding how we learn and helping
people learn how to learn, these arereally essential pieces of what we do.
And so, thank you Lauren.
Thank you.
yeah.
Ah, thank you.
Thank you so much for, you know,providing, providing us lonely
scientists, an audience to, to,you know, tickle their brains with.
(39:35):
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
Well, we'll see you all next time.
That was quite an adventure, labmates.
We are ready to set sail for betterlearning with these key strategies
from Lauren Waldman, Learning Pirate.
First, follow the science anchor designto the insights on learning that come out
of neuroscience and cognitive science.
(39:56):
Second, create learning experiences thatresonate emotionally and intellectually.
It's about charting a course that'sboth thrilling and enlightening.
Third, streamline learning.
Keep the cargo light so youdon't slow down the ship.
I mean the learning.
Finally, be intentional about thechoices you make in learning design.
Help your audience find theirtreasure with a clear map.
(40:17):
Now, it's time to set sail andjoin forces with your brain.
For your experiment this week,you'll learn more about the brain
memory and learning with someconnection building activities.
You can check out the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the
social learning lab communityon Facebook in the community.
You can also share your results toget feedback and insights from peers.
(40:39):
If you enjoyed this episode, weinvite you to leave a review,
like subscribe or share, so we cancontinue to build a supportive group
of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
Some pirates give instead of steal.
On this episode of the SocialLearning Lab, we dig up treasures with
Learning Pirate, Lauren Waldman, andlucky for us, she's quite generous.
You'll walk away with gems ofwisdom about how to join forces with
your brain to create learning thatsticks more quickly and for longer.
So swap the PowerPoint deckand let us show you the ropes.
(00:21):
Ahoy, Labmaties.
We're super pumped to be here todaywith Lauren Waldman, learning scientist
and founder of Learning Pirate Inc.
And, I I think.
think, if you've seen Lauren atall, you've probably heard, "YARR".
Lauren is one of the first learningdesigners in the world to merge
the operational function of thebrain with cognitive theories to
(00:42):
create large scale learning designs.
She has held leadership positions anddesign for organizations globally.
Lauren appears regularly on conferencestages, podcasts, webinars and more.
And, she is a highly sought afterkeynote speaker, best known for her
entertaining and interactive talks,which is why we had to track her down
and get her on The Social Learning Lab.
(01:04):
And, she also invites her audiences tojoin forces with their brains, and we're
definitely gonna talk about that today.
But in other words, we're really superlucky to have Lauren in the lab with us
today and, we can't wait to get started.
So thank you for being here, Lauren.
Ya-Argh.
Hi everybody.
Happy New Year, or HappyNew YARR as I like to say.
Yes, it's just on the yourID side 'cause I realize I
(01:27):
always forget to do this intro.
So I'm Nicole, I'm, the founder andI guess chief learning strategist,
whatever my title is this week overat Your Instructional Designer.
But I'm not alone fromthe Your ID squad today.
So I don't know if, which oneof you want to share that you're
Rocio over here, Junior Project Manager.
And Katie, instructional designer.
(01:49):
Awesome.
So Lauren, I know we are big fans ofyour work and one of the biggest things
that we really enjoyed is the wholeidea of joining forces with your brain.
So, can you just tell us what exactly doesit mean to join forces with your brain?
It means, okay, first, it means that youacknowledge that you've got three pounds
(02:09):
of what my, one of my board members likesto call meatloaf, that we carry around up
in our heads and it runs the whole show.
It's our everything and to joinforces with it, cause I don't
like using the word control.
I think there's a lot of neurobabble and neuromarketing and they're
like, you know, take this pilland you can control this and that.
And, I'm like, no, no.
(02:31):
So, I like the terminology of joiningforces and that really means just
knowing enough about the operationalsystem itself, so that you can use it to
the best of its abilities, and whetherthat's for work, or for learning, or,
you know, navigating through a crowdedroom, or recognizing when you're not
paying attention and losing focus.
Like there's so many of these, likevery simple and amazing ways that we
(02:54):
can join forces with our brains andbasically interact with one another
a little bit better once we justunderstand what's going on up there.
Yes.
I love all of that and we're definitelygonna unpack some of that as we go
through this podcast episode today.
And so, you've already been out theretalking about this for a while, and one
(03:14):
of the things we've, we've gone throughit, we think it's amazing, but you have
this free mini course join, Joining Forceswith Your Brains accurately named, right?
And, we noticed that you take afew minutes to, kind of, have your
own social learning experiences andas your resident social learning
nerds, we wanted to talk about them.
So, you know, you like go on the streetto talk to real people and hear about
their learning experiences, and thenyou're pulling in your, your friend,
(03:37):
learning pirate scientist, Elliot.
And so like, what made you decide toincorporate these moments in your program?
So, those moments, those like social,so I wouldn't necessarily call those
social learning moments, right?
Because like just by thescience and by definition, that
wouldn't necessarily qualify.
And, there's my nerdcoming out in that answer.
(03:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those were like, those were putin as experiments, you know?
And yeah, we did go out and weconducted those live on the streets.
Really, it was to demonstrate and allowpeople to experience what their brains can
do when we give them the opportunity to,sort of, you know, really strategically
and intentionally work with it.
(04:21):
But those moments as well as, youknow, several of the others that
were embedded, you know, intothe design of the series itself.
You know, whether it was the factthat I was using novelty or whether
I was using things to guide someone'sattentional networks because I needed
them to focus, or, you know, insertingthose practice practices where
people could help to create a memory.
(04:42):
Those moments were so intentionally andstrategically designed in, because that's
how we design learning with science.
We use the best of what we know in orderto help activate someone else's brains
and to help, help them, not only justengage with the learning journey itself,
but we're really trying on our sideas the designers to help that encoding
(05:04):
process to create a transferable memory.
'cause what is learning without memory?
Yes, so this might be a good time to asklike, what, if anything, does cognitive
science teach us about learning?
Like what, what should we betaking away from the science
and the evidence that exists?
A lot.
(05:26):
You know, when we look at from, sort of,the methodology and the old, the, you
know, one of the oldest theories, right?
So when we look at the theory of socialcognitive theory, and that's going back
a long time, and what we learn is if wesort of merge it with what we know about
neuroscience, we can kind of collaborate.
So when we look at social learning theory,it's really about how do we learn with
(05:47):
one another, but how are we observing?
How am I observing how you are reacting?
How you are behaving?
How, how you're modeling, right?
Like that's the emphasis when itcomes to, sort of, the theory itself.
But when we look into the brain and welook into the neuroscience, we've got,
you know, billions of these wonderfulcells called neurons in our heads,
and some of them can do somethingcalled mirroring, and that's kind of
(06:10):
where the two come together, right?
So mirror neurons, basically,they've got like mechanisms that
that kind of can explain a littlebit behind social learning theory.
And that was really, you know howwhen we look at someone is, are those
particular neurons activated whensomeone is performing something or when
they're observing somebody else do it?
So there's a lot that we can say.
(06:31):
You know, I think social learning, whenpeople think about it, they're like,
oh, that just means we get togetherin groups and we have group chats.
And yes, that's true, but when you reallydig deep into the theory itself, you
understand that it's less about me justgoing in and having a chat with everybody.
It's me observing, and it'sme participating very actively
and intentionally in that act.
(06:52):
People always ask us, whatdoes social learning mean?
And, I'm like, well, it's really broad.
Like, we use it in a specific wayto talk about what we do here.
But it's, it is what you're saying.
It's the observation, it'slearning from and with one another.
You know, yeah, it is broad.
But we don't have to stick tosocial, I mean, I'll try to keep
us on social learning 'causethat's what the podcast is about.
But I don't know if there's anything elsethat you sort of feel is just essential
(07:15):
when it comes to the learning science thatmaybe isn't captured if we just talk about
social learning that you wanna share.
Oof.
you know, when we go into learningsciences, there's so much, right?
And, you are looking at itfrom theory and methodology,
which is one side of the coin.
But where my sort of, you know, expertand I don't wanna call myself an expert.
I'm never, no one's ever gonnabe an expert in the brain.
(07:36):
But I will say my, my specializations,which is understanding brain function,
understanding, you know, what isthis thing that we carry around
with us that's allowing you all tonod your heads right now and to,
yep, smile, emotional reactivityjust knew that was gonna happen.
And, just knowing those little things,right, is what is, you know, the
(07:58):
operational manual of these things and howdo we work a little bit better with it,
so that we can learn more strategic, moreintentionally, so we can design better.
And, that's really, youdon't have to know too much.
You don't have to be a neuroscientistin order to scratch the surface
of some of these things.
So, if we can understand things like,you know, if you're sitting there
(08:20):
and you're trying to learn or you'retrying to work and you're getting
to that point of frustration, oryou're of fatigue, are you really in
the best brain state to be learning?
No.
Your chemistry is doing thingsup there that you can't see.
The whole system is doing stuff that youcan't see, but you can tangibly feel it,
and then we can make decisions about that.
(08:40):
So when it comes to any type ofundertaking, whether it be, you know,
you're working on a project, you'rereally hunkering down to do some learning.
Just understanding a little bit moreabout the process of what your brain is
doing, changes everything, because likeI said, then you can join forces with it.
Then you can work with the operationalsystem as opposed to against it, which
(09:04):
quite often we, we usually all are.
So, it's, it's interesting 'cause youknow, we're, we're thinking about all
of these things and you're right, we, wedo get away often from best practices,
but, rather than harping on the negative,I would love to hear about maybe one
of the most impactful experiences thatyou've either had or maybe you were the
(09:24):
person who facilitated or designed, youknow, what would that most impactful
learning experience be for you?
So my, my personal one, like my personallike learning experience, that was
like, the most impactful was when Ifirst started studying the brain and
really was humbled and humiliated atthe same time by how little I knew
(09:50):
A) about the thing that makes me me.
But then, how little I knew about learningitself as someone who had been a teacher,
as someone who had been in learningdevelopment industry for as long as I had.
It was mildly embarrassing to be honest,and it was that experience that sort
of sparked me to leave the company thatI was working with at the time, start
(10:13):
Learning Pirate and, you know, reallyforge this new path because when you
understand like I did, and it was painful.
It was not a fun experience.
Like it was almost like going back to,you know, starting back in kindergarten,
not being able to pronounce words.
They were very scientific.
I had no idea how to pronounce them.
And, just really being reduced to avery humble student again; and then
(10:35):
recognizing, I have no idea how tolearn properly, because I think if
I did, this wouldn't be so hard.
Now, learning is hard.
It's meant to be hard.
We're changing our brains whenwe're doing it, but the way that
we go about it can be a lot easier.
And that's what I learned throughmy own experience and my own journey
into, into the neuroscience and,and then, you know, becoming the
(10:56):
translator and the practitioner,and, and all of these things.
But then, the most impactful.
There's been so many learning designsand so many great companies and so
many amazing human beings, but I thinkthe one that brought me to tears was
during, it was just at the end, justkind of towards the end of the pandemic.
(11:18):
And, I was here in Toronto and a,a company had reached out to me.
They were a nonprofit company and theywere for newcomers, coming into to the
city; and this was just around the timethat the Ukraine war had broken out,
and we had a lot of people coming in.
You know, we took in a lot of immigrants,but this newcomer center was really
struggling, because they had 400employees being managed by 50 managers.
(11:42):
Everyone was being trauma dumped on,and everyone was being traumatized
in one way, shape, or form.
So where I was originally called in todesign for, for something else, when
we realized what was happening and themanagers really needed support in order
to support their, you know, hundredsof people, we switched gears and
myself and my other board member, Dr.
(12:03):
Chris Lee, we created a program calledHow to Human and the How to Human
Program taught people the fundamentalsof the brain, but we really looked at
it from what's emotional regulationand how do you monitor that and
how do you like, help yourselfwhen you're really going downhill.
And then, we looked at the cognitiveside of things, so that you can
think and you can work and youcan like do the best that you can.
(12:24):
And then, we looked atthe behavioral side.
I couldn't imagine the impact thatthat program would've had on these 50
managers who every two weeks showed up.
Not one dropped off of the program andthey were implementing everything that we
were teaching them like week after week.
Probably, the, the moment thatbrought me to tears, I will never
(12:45):
forget this, is I had to go out toCalgary, Alberta to deliver a keynote
and it was the last session that wehad with these, these 50 managers.
They were so fantastic and I had letthem know like, "Hey guys, like I have
to, I gotta drive back into the city.
So I gotta jump off early".
And, when the time came for me tojump off the, the Zoom call and I said
goodbye to everybody, every single oneof them turned on the videos of their
(13:09):
cameras and just thankful and humbled andjust told me how much they, and I just
started bawling, freshly makeup done.
I was just like, that's when I realizedthe, the profound impact that we can
have and, and what we can do to supportand, you know, everything when we just
(13:30):
understand the operational system, andto this, to this day, it's probably
one of the most profound and impactfullearning designs I've ever done.
That sounds amazing.
And also just such a, you know, weget caught up on metrics and not that
they're not important, but like thehuman impact that's immediately obvious.
There is, just so amazing to hear about.
(13:52):
and I can tell everybody that, likein this is, this is like the, the
neuroscience in me, is, as I'm recallingthis story to you, I can feel my heart
rate started to accelerate and that mybody has started to go into a different
place, because it's tangibly associatingthose memories with that feeling.
And it's like, I'm just re it's,it's, this is how a nerd relives
(14:14):
or experiences by like recalling.
I can literally feel what my brain isdoing in order to help me bring forward
those memories to tell you that story.
That's kind of a beautiful thing.
I'm second-hand nerding causeI'm, I'm getting goosebumps.
Right.
That's joining forces withyour brain right there.
I feel like when I was hearing you talk,you recall some of the stuff we were
talking about last season with Lyle,who he owns a, a clinical practice and a
(14:38):
employee, you know, assistance program,workplace wellbeing armed to the business.
And so, emotional regulation came up andI know Rocio, like I started thinking
about you, because it was a reallyinfluential and I guess point of interest
for you when we were talking about it.
So, I don't know that, I'm just, I guess,wondering if you know what Lauren's saying
(15:00):
is resonating with the two of you sinceI've been monopolizing the conversation.
I'm just listening.
I feel like every time we have oneof these episodes where we're talking
about like psychological safety,we're talking about the brain.
I just go into this like, and startlike analyzing my life and, and Lauren
is talking and I'm like thinking aboutmoments where I've had those feelings of
like, you relive something and your, yourbody has the same reaction or starts to
(15:25):
feel that same reaction that you felt atthat moment where it actually happened.
So, that has happenedto me a couple of times.
And, how amazing that like, you know,you know all these things and you're
so, so self-aware of your brain and yourbody, and you can like pinpoint, right?
Like, this is happeningbecause this is happening.
And, how you said like, oh, there you go,you're nodding and now I knew you were
(15:47):
gonna smile because that's the reaction.
So like, I can imagine you, like everytime you talk to somebody, you're,
you're already like thinking aboutlike this reactions and why they're
happening like at the same time.
That's amazing.
It is a, it's a superpower.
Yeah.
And I could tell you from the, when I,when I started learning all of this, and
(16:07):
then, I started building my board and,you know, the science, the scientists
and the scientific community, excuseme, they, they really just welcomed me
and they really embraced me into it.
And, I just remember with every, youknow, neuropsychologists that I met with
every new neuroscientist that I met.
And, I remember asking themlike, how do you do it?
How do you walk around knowing evenlike, you know, so much more than I do.
(16:28):
Like I'm so much more aware we're, andnow that I'm at the level that I'm at,
you know, we have these conversations withmy colleagues and it's crazy, because we
are a little, that little bit more aware.
Mm-Hmm.
And, it's a lot of, it's a lot offun too, because I think, as you saw,
some of you who've seen the series,we get to mess around with people too.
So, all for the sake of learning.
(16:50):
But, yeah, it, it is pretty amazing whatyou can do when you actually understand
what's, what's going on up there.
Yeah, I think it, it also makesyou more understanding of other
people's and how they react tothings and kind of makes you take.
When you're, that self-aware of howthings work makes you take a step back
(17:12):
and understand people's reactions tothings a little better and with more
understanding, and less, take it lesspersonal, I guess, I would think.
I'll share a story if you'll,if you'll permit me to.
I, I work in an officehere in downtown Toronto.
And, I remember just taking a breakone day to go grab a coffee and walking
(17:33):
into the coffee shop; and there was aman in the shop who was quite agitated
and start raising his voice, and he wasa larger man, so people were getting
a little bit, a little bit scared.
And, he was obviously, youknow, he didn't have a home.
And, you know, we, we do like many,many places in the world, we are, we
are suffering a, another pandemic, whichis a mental health pandemic globally.
(17:54):
And, the people who were behind thecounter, they, they were not handling
that situation very well at all.
And, in those moments, even I have tostop and, sort of, assess and, and be
like, is this okay for me to approach?
Like I, I will.
How are you speaking?
What's the tone of your voice?
Where are your body movements going?
Just to see can I intervene and,and sort of help in any way?
(18:15):
And, I felt that I could.
This man was asking for a sandwich.
He just wanted, he wanted a sandwich,so I stopped and I said, are, "hey,
I'm like, you're hungry, huh?"
He's like, "yeah".
And like, "how's work been lately?"
And, he stopped and this, he must'vebeen about six five, and I'm all of five
three, like I'm a tiny little human.
(18:37):
And, he just looked down at me andthe whole, his whole body shifted
and the look in his eyes from someonewho had just spoken to him like he
was just your normal, everyday human.
And, the situation was diffused.
We got him a sandwich and wegot him out of there, but it
was everybody else's reactions.
(18:58):
And, I don't blame anybody for that,like humans, we are some of the most
unpredictable things on the planet.
But if, like you said, Rocio, likeif we can understand this a little
bit more, then maybe you can be alittle bit more empathetic and maybe
you will know how to communicatewith people a little bit better.
And, those are things even formyself that I've learned so much
more about how I was communicating.
(19:20):
And what, how, what wasmy emotional triggers?
And you know, when, what weremy feelings going off the rails?
And you know, when was Ibeing passive aggressive?
Any of any of those number ofthings, those human things that
happen with us, but, you know,it's quite, quite phenomenal what
happens when you understand what'sgoverning us on a moment to moment.
A second to second basis is chemicalreactions and electrical signals.
(19:42):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that it's really hard, becausesometimes, you know, it's a lot, we take
a lot of the stuff personal or like as a,as an attack or, you know, and that goes
back to things that we have gone through,that people touch on and it like activates
something in us, but like the onlything we can control is like our actions
and our reactions, what somebody elsedoes is totally, you know, up to them.
(20:05):
So I'm very conscious of that,that like how you react doesn't
necessarily, you know, say anythingabout me or say anything about us.
And I think in that moment, everybodywas just reacting to him being agitated.
Right?
And everybody was upset because,oh, you know, like, you're not
the only one here and why are youmaking, but that was not the issue.
The issue was what was going on,you know, that you were able to
(20:27):
recognize that was something beyondjust asking for a sandwich because
he really wanted a sandwich, right?
I mean, take that into the boardroom.
You know, we've all been, we've all satin meetings where someone's getting a
little bit heated or they're gettinga little bit upset or agitated, right?
And we have no idea if that person hada horrible morning, you know, and that's
been triggered, or someone said somethingin there that had triggered something,
(20:48):
you know, acute, you know, cues andtriggers when it comes to behavioral
science, those are real things, youknow, and it takes only one cue to then,
you know, provide a behavioral actionthat's associated with that person.
You know, it's, it's also,yeah, like you said, it's how
do, how do we respond to it?
How do we respond?
That's this.
That's the power of joiningforces with your brain, right?
(21:09):
It's how, if I understand, andfrom a, a colleague of mine, Dr.
Kate Truitt, who is just a phenomenalneuroscientist and psychologist
who studies mostly on the amygdalaand emotional emotion and trauma.
She was the one in her work who taughtme is that if we understand that
the emotional processing centers ofour brain, these two tiny, little,
(21:29):
tiny pieces called the amygdala areacting four times faster, four times
faster than our executive function.
Well, what does that tell us?
We know who's who we know who'srunning the show right away, but we
also know that we can take very slow,intentional, calming breaths to, to
tell the central nervous system, totell the amygdala like, yo, it's cool.
(21:51):
We, we're good.
Like, we need our brain now.
I need like, I need my executivefunction right now to deal with this.
And like, you, like going off therails in the background is not helping.
So it's all of those little things thatwe can learn and that we can teach that,
that make everything so much better.
Then obviously you know, wecan learn to design these.
Yeah, like how many times havewe, how many times have we acted
(22:15):
in the moment, and then like 10minutes later we're like, "yeah, no,
that was not that big of a deal".
Like, that reaction was not therequired reaction for the very small
problem that I was dealing with.
I am curious cause earlier wewere saying like just getting a
group of people together, right?
Doesn't ul- ultimately necessarily resultin a learning experience, even though that
may be, you know, as learning designers,our intention when we're, you know,
(22:37):
creating these learning experiences.
So, I'm curious from your perspective,joining forces with your brain, like what
would need to be in place for a reallyeffective social learning experience.
So we get people together, butwhat else needs to be happening?
We, you know, cause you mentionedpsychological safety, right?
Like you have to feel safe in the group.
What else would you saywould be a good ingredient?
(22:58):
You know, it's really, and I get so manyof these questions, so my, my specialty
is in scientific learning design.
That's where I've taken, you know, myscience, my science background, and
my learning background and as an L&D.
And, you know, all my L&Ds whoare listening right now, I'm,
I'm one of you, I'm one of you.
I was a CLO.
I was an instructional designer.
Like I've done it all right?
So, for me, what it really doescome down to is you have to be so
(23:22):
intentional about what you're doing inthe design and why, and if it's like,
I'm gonna put everybody into this groupright now so that they can discuss.
Okay, but why am I doing that?
Is it because I need a break as thefacilitator, you know, uh, come on.
And you're all laughing, so Iknow you've all done it before.
I've done it too.
(23:42):
Never.
I've never just stuck everybody in azoom room so I could take a breather.
Like, but it's, it is really,it comes down to those things.
So if I want to design somethingthat's really going to elevate a social
learning moment, I'm either gonna makeit you know, observable which is I'm,
again, using someone's attention tofocus them on one particular thing.
(24:05):
So am I asking you to observeand model a certain behavior?
Am I asking you to, you know, I'mnot, I'm not the biggest fan of role
play, but it is very effective in somecertain, in certain situations, but
a lot of adults are not comfortablewith role play because you're
asking them to tap into imagination.
(24:26):
And, a lot of us just don'tdo that very often as adults.
And sometimes as kids,we didn't do it either.
You know, everyone probably has,I can, I can say this to everyone
who's listening right now.
I'm certain that the majority of ushad an experience in school, where we
had, where the teacher said, "okay, nowyou're gonna pair up and you're gonna
pretend and you're gonna role playand you're gonna pretend to do this".
(24:47):
And, your whole body just went, "oh no.
Is everyone else watching me?
And who's listening?"
And I, and we carry that over.
We carry that over, you know, to ouradult, our adult experience as well.
But if you're going to do somethingthat's social, design it intentionally
don't just put it in as an activity,understand why you're doing it.
(25:08):
What is the actual transferableskill, knowledge, or behavior
that it is supporting in the actof putting in that social moment?
Yeah, I think ev- every, so we haverecorded a, a couple of prerecorded,
a couple of episodes for this seasonand every episode the word, this
being intentional about the sociallearning moments that we put into
(25:29):
the design has been like, has come upevery, everybody that we have talked
to has talked about intentionality.
and why aren't we doing it?
I know we're not.
We're not.
Everybody, everybody's saying itand we talk about it, but it's not
happening in the design out in thewild when people are designing.
(25:49):
because they don't know how
Yeah.
This is, this is the thing.
This is the whole, this is the wholereason why I created Joining Forces with
Your Brain, the series, is if my, ifI could wave my white flag as someone
who was a teacher, an internationalteacher, who then became a teacher
trainer, who then worked my way upthrough learning and development in
(26:11):
the industry up to CLO, at that pointis when I realized that I didn't
know how to do these things properly.
We're going 15 years.
That's why.
We just have to admit thatwe're not doing it wrong.
We just can be doing it better now.
So, we have to be open to it.
Isn't that crazy?
We're telling learning, we're tellinglearning and development and learning
people that you need to learn.
(26:32):
And they're going, nah, we're good.
We know what we're doing.
No.
I'm like, oh, but do, do you, you know.
You know, because there's been so manyinstances where people are saying, "Hey
Lauren, can you, can you take a look atthis little module that we, we wrote?
Or can you just take", and I said, "areyou prepared for me to tear it apart?"
And like I'm sure your contentsis there, but as far as learning
(26:55):
efficacy, nah, most of them aren't.
Don't even get me started onAI content development now.
We won't.
It's all garbage and garbage out.
That's all I'll say about that.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Katie, I saw you just hit that.
Well, I was curious 'cause onechallenge that we often think about
(27:16):
is like, okay, maybe it's like a new.
You know, group that we're tryingto form, you know, a social,
social learning digital cohortand we want it to really take off.
But it's like we've talked beforeand it's on the blog as well that
Nicole has written about, like thefeeling of going first and like kind
of when you don't have a model forhow to behave in this particular.
(27:36):
I'm thinking of specificallyonline communities, but it
could be more broad.
So, I'm wondering if, like, you couldspeak to what's going on in the brain
in that process and, how we might designthe beginnings of something as social, a
new social learning group better so thatpeople feel more comfortable joining.
You know, it's interesting because whenwe look into behaviors and experiences
(27:58):
and what's made up, you know, what's,what's called the schema, which is you
should know this, it was in the series.
How is someone coming into that?
What is their former behaviors?
What are their former attitudes,you know, and, and their habits
in those, in those situations.
Now, then we've got, there's, there'sthose things that we can sort of like,
(28:19):
understand a few of the variables,but then there's the other things.
Because I don't know you, Idon't know what's in your brain
as far as previous memories.
I don't know what might makeyou happy or sad or you know,
really like curious or whatnot.
And that's something that we can, we all,sort of, need to, to explore together.
And I think when we come together on alevel playing field, and we can choose the
(28:40):
choose something, you know, if everyone'scoming together to learn, well guess what?
You've just found thecommon, the common bond.
Unless there's people in therewho have been told that they have
to, in which case you really wannaidentify those people quickly.
It's like, my boss made me be here.
I'm like, oh, okay, let's,let's work through that.
(29:01):
So, and there's gonnabe some of that as well.
But a lot of the time these days, youknow, when people are coming together,
you know, we did a cohort, the firstcohort program of a scientific learning
design with the offbeat community.
And I mean, that's a perfect example.
I didn't know them.
They didn't know me.
They didn't know each other.
They were from different, likeso many parts of the globe
were represented in that.
And the commonality was, we're curious.
(29:24):
And we came here to learn.
It's like you read my mind becauseI was actually just about to
ask you about how that's going.
So how is it going?
The cohort.
You going to do more of it?
Yeah.
So the, oh, it was, it was wildly amazing.
It was great.
It was so cool.
Like, first of all, we had likeparticipants from literally, like
they, they, we covered so many partsof the globe, which was so cool for me.
(29:45):
Different industries, you know, differentapproaches are coming and, and wanting
to, to learn about these things for,for different reasons, which is just
so awesome for me, because I'm justa curious, curious little monkey.
And, it was amazing.
You know, I think, for me to be ableto transfer my skill and knowledge
to other, you know, there werecoaches, there were instructional
(30:08):
designers, there were L&D managers.
You know, we had a littlesprinkling of everything.
I think that's what's really allabout right, is if we're going
to change the way that things aredone, we need to teach the change.
it was such a, a fulfilling,a fulfilling thing.
I think the coolest thing about thatfor me was, you know, as it was the
(30:32):
first, first of its kind, you know, Ido a lot of internal workshops for, for
L&D teams and, and big organizations,but a lot of them, it's, you know,
maybe two, three sessions at most.
And this went on for six weeks, so wehad a lot more time to, and I can tell
you it, we got to the, the sixth session,the last session, and I was like.
How is this over?
We have to keep going.
(30:53):
Like, there's so much more,and we all felt the same way.
There's just like so much more.
But I think, you know, when, when youstart the journey about learning, you
know, it's, they came in wanting to knowhow do I design learning better using
science and understanding my brain?
And then, similar to what happens,happened to me in my journey, it
happened to them, which was you startto realize you've come into this
(31:16):
for a professional reason, but it'sgonna start to change you profoundly
as the human being that you are.
You're gonna walk out every session andyou're gonna see things differently.
You're gonna experiencepeople differently.
You're gonna be more observantof what you're doing differently.
And, that to me was like, watching otherpeople go through what I had gone through,
like, you know, eight years ago, almosta decade now, was really, really cool.
(31:40):
And yeah, I can't wait to, tosort of follow up with them
and see how things are going.
And, yes.
I have agreed to do another cohortwith the Offbeat, and that's gonna
be starting at the end of February.
And I think it's up for the,I think they've announced it.
So yeah, registration's open for that.
That's awesome.
By the time we launched thisepisode, I forget the exact date,
(32:00):
but I think that'll be pretty close.
So if you're listening and you'reinterested, like what time is
better than now, I love that.
Before we kind of ask our closing stuff,I would just ask, you know, you've
designed so much, you've seen thisindustry from all these different angles.
You've gotten to know the brains.
Is there one or maybe more actionablestrategy that you just think.
(32:23):
This should be applied way morefrequently in the work we do
in learning and development.
Like, something specific thatwe can all take back with us
today and start doing right now.
You know, I always, the, I've been usingthis analogy for like a really long
time, but I feel like it's, it, it's,it holds true, which is any, most of
(32:44):
the stuff that I look at, it's, there'sa fire hose worth of content coming at
the, at the people on the other side.
It's just too much.
Right.
And, it's not, again, I hate to saythese two words again, but strategy
and intention, they go a long way.
So, what I encourage, you know, mydesigners to do, and I understand, I'm
gonna caveat this with, I understand thatyou've got your stakeholders on the other
(33:06):
side going, no, but we want this there andwe want this there, we want this there.
I get it.
But what you can do is, picture a gameof Jenga and each one of those blocks
represents a piece of the content.
Start removing blocks.
If your tower stays stable, you're okay.
(33:27):
When it starts to get wobbly, you mighthave to add some of the content back
in, but keep removing until you, untilyou wobble and get to the good stuff.
I love that visual so much.
That's great.
This is the second time Jenga hascome up in one of these episodes.
Oh, no way.
I feel like we need to havea virtual Jenga session.
I don't even know where we find one,but I'm just saying it could be fun.
(33:48):
But it makes perfect sense, andI think it is learning design 101
and somehow it escapes us, causeI guess, 'cause it's stakeholder
pressures fire hose for us, right?
Sometimes we're getting theinformation too fast to sit and
make sense of it before we haveto deliver or whatever it is.
But I love that.
I think that's really just awonderful way to think about it.
You know, how many blocks can I pull?
(34:10):
Yeah, but it's also, I think, part of thereason why I am, I'm advocating and, you
know, really sort of leading this battleof change in the industry and change to
the learning is, because if you don'tknow the reason why, when you go to have
that conversation with the stakeholder,it's just gonna fall short, right?
(34:31):
You need to be able to explainthat the human brain cannot,
cannot process and take in thatmuch at this time, in this way.
So if you, you know, when I speak tothem, I said, "if you want to triple your
budget so that we can repeat this forthe next three years, then absolutely I
(34:52):
will do exactly what you want me to do.
And your people are not gonna learneffectively, and we'll not be able
to transfer this, and we'll have torepeat it over and over and over again.
So if you wanna triple your budget,that's great, but if you wanna actually
invest in upskilling humans on howto be human so that you don't have to
do that; and so they can learn and,and work and be just amazing people.
(35:14):
Okay, well, let's explore the brain.
Let's join forces with it a little bit".
Yeah, I think we need to stopseeing training as a checkbox
to meet some kind of, you know,compliance or whatever it is.
That, oh, we just need a training here.
This is gonna solve it.
See you next year in the sametraining with the same information.
(35:35):
And, we can check that box again nextyear, and then you're just wasting money.
And money, right?
time and money.
That's the one thingeveryone wants to, to save.
And it's, you know, thebusiness side of things.
What, what I find almost comical isthat we'll prove the ROI on this.
I'm like, well, how much have you spenton, on repeating, you know, learning?
I'm like, okay.
Like, oh, and then the best oneis, well, we don't have any budget.
(35:57):
I'm like, "Hmm, but you had budget whenLMSs became popular back in the day;
and you had budget when micro learningbecame like a, the next trend; and
then you had budget when VR was likeall of a sudden like really popular;
and now you've got budget for AI.
So, you, you do, but are you usingthat budget strategically and
intentionally to help the humans.
(36:17):
Mm-Hmm.
The humans, fundamentally learn howto learn better, because if you're
not investing in that, you might aswell just be giving the money away.
We're all nodding.
It's just like a, a moment of silence forall the learning that has been built, only
to go off and die cause it was really bad.
Yes.
We just, we'll just, we'll justpour one on the sidewalk for that.
(36:41):
I feel like that's the perfect placeto land this conversation cause
I, if you, if you didn't listen tothe rest of the episode, which you
probably did to get here and Lauren'sfascinating, so I'm sure you did.
But like that, that to me, is it, right.
Like strategy, intention and I thinka little bit of sales, like being
willing to be an educator and fightthe good fight and not just be like,
yeah, sure, we'll, we'll do what youwant without pushing back a little.
(37:04):
Would, would you say that's thebig three we can do like today?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The only way that we're gonna changeis not through talking anymore,
but we gotta actually take action.
And if that means that you go aheadand you do the design that you
think is the right design, do it.
Ask for forgiveness, not permission.
That's the pirate way.
That's it.
(37:24):
And just like that.
And just like that.
Lauren never worked again.
No, no.
I think we're, we're fullagreement with you here.
It's a little bit of subversion, right?
Like you have to give them enough to belike, yes, we listen, but actually, and
then they're like, wow, this is betterthan we thought or we could imagine.
I'm like, yeah, 'cause you let usdo what we needed to do, right.
(37:48):
Exactly.
Well, Lauren, this conversation has beenamazing and I know that, you know, if six
weeks of a cohort wasn't enough, that,you know, little more than a half hour
is definitely not gonna be enough foreveryone to learn all the wonderful things
that they could be learning from you.
So if people wanna continuelearning about you and your
work, where can they find you?
(38:08):
First of all, you can go to the LearningPirate website, and that's where, where
you can discover what's going on with me.
You can meet some of the board memberswho are up there if you want to dive
into your brain a little bit and learningand just the antics and the craziness
that I get up to when I film theseries, Joining Forces With Your Brain.
The first, the five chapters that westill have up for free are on YouTube
(38:29):
and they're also up on the website.
And then, we've got the secondrelease happened this past spring.
And then, whether or not there's,you know, I wanna continue designing.
I definitely wanna continue the series.
I have so much fun doing it.
It's very hard, but yeah, you want,that's the sort of the end of the, the
last chapter of the last of the seriesrelease was, I'm only doing it if you guys
(38:51):
want it, so give me a "YARR" if you do.
Do we?
Can we YARR?
Oh, everyone can YARR.
Yeah.
I have no shame clearly.
Well, thank you again, Lauren.
If you know you wanna listen to thisepisode and just pin it a hundred
times, listen to it over and over again.
Put it in the background while you'redoing all your work because I, I
(39:13):
couldn't agree more that, you know,understanding how we learn and helping
people learn how to learn, these arereally essential pieces of what we do.
And so, thank you Lauren.
Thank you.
yeah.
Ah, thank you.
Thank you so much for, you know,providing, providing us lonely
scientists, an audience to, to,you know, tickle their brains with.
(39:35):
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure.
Well, we'll see you all next time.
That was quite an adventure, labmates.
We are ready to set sail for betterlearning with these key strategies
from Lauren Waldman, Learning Pirate.
First, follow the science anchor designto the insights on learning that come out
of neuroscience and cognitive science.
(39:56):
Second, create learning experiences thatresonate emotionally and intellectually.
It's about charting a course that'sboth thrilling and enlightening.
Third, streamline learning.
Keep the cargo light so youdon't slow down the ship.
I mean the learning.
Finally, be intentional about thechoices you make in learning design.
Help your audience find theirtreasure with a clear map.
(40:17):
Now, it's time to set sail andjoin forces with your brain.
For your experiment this week,you'll learn more about the brain
memory and learning with someconnection building activities.
You can check out the full experimentbrief in the show notes or the
social learning lab communityon Facebook in the community.
You can also share your results toget feedback and insights from peers.
(40:39):
If you enjoyed this episode, weinvite you to leave a review,
like subscribe or share, so we cancontinue to build a supportive group
of social learning enthusiasts.
Until next time, keep makinglearning that matters.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.