October 30, 2023 • 62 mins
We take your questions!! This episode goes all over the place, We cover: What is the ideal speaker placement? TV or projector? Which one should I do? Isn't there wireless surround sound? How do I split my cable box legally? Can't I just wire nut all of my speakers together to one amplifier output channel? What's a "promo" TV, speaker, etc… ? What's the box to make coax into hdmi? Or component into hdmi? How do I get the image from a computer or tablet onto my TV? Apple VS Android What's the difference between Bluetooth and wireless? Does a bigger TV mean a better TV? Is bigger better? Can I plug RCA cables into speaker connectors? We cover all this and more!! Learn the secrets from the pros, they have been the go to audio, video, and low voltage, resource in Nashville Tennessee, serving the Franklin, Brentwood, Nashville, East Nashville, Gallatin, Green Hills, and surrounding areas for more than a decade. They have an after sale perspective, knowing what folks complain about 3 months, 6 months, or even years later, and what the best practices are to ensure your next project is flawless. With millions in sales, these experts share the information you need to enjoy your home theater, your music, or your smart home. From automation to turntables, they know how to do it all in the custom AV world!!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
All right.
Well,
welcome to the Sound of Design with Mark and Dan.
And uh we are super excited to have you with us uh on today's episode,
uh We figured that uh now that we're getting into our 20th episode,
uh we would like to say,
uh I know it's fantastic.
(00:34):
Uh We've been hit with a lot of questions and this is from you guys.
Uh This is,
uh we've also sprinkled in a couple that we seem to get all the time uh when we're at the store or,
you know,
when we're in clients' homes,
uh people seem to,
to ask these kind of all over the place.
(00:54):
And so,
um how's that sound,
Mark?
Now,
I love it.
I'm super excited to answer some of these questions that we've gotten.
Excellent.
Excellent,
awesome.
Well,
we'll dive right into it.
Um What is the ideal speaker placement?
Well,
um this is one of my favorite questions to get because it's usually from someone who's walking in who's saying,
(01:20):
hey,
I want a 5.1 system which in previous episodes,
we've talked about this,
you don't want a 5.1.
You want surround sound and surround sound isn't just five speakers anymore.
It's at least seven in my opinion,
uh is,
if not more than that because Dolby Atmos exists.
And if you wanna talk about Dolby Atmos,
you can go back to our,
(01:41):
our episode that we talk about it in.
But,
um,
speaker placement is in an ideal world or in a perfect world.
Like if I'm setting up a recording studio or something along those lines,
speaker placement is very,
very important,
very important.
But realistically,
most of the rooms that we deal with in a residential space and that most of these clients have when they walk in asking this question is usually a living room that opens up to a kitchen and dining room with a vaulted ceiling.
(02:15):
So,
well,
I'm not saying speaker placement isn't important.
It,
it's,
it's not unless you can put it in the exact spot it needs to go in which you typically can't,
you then typically have to rely on the A VR to do the dirty work,
so to speak and they do that with calibration.
(02:38):
So in a lot of instances,
I'm I'm sure that you've probably done this the same.
I'll talk about the quality of calibration on better receivers for those type of space just so we can kind of overcome those obstacles.
Um On top of that,
recommending maybe a certain kind of speaker uh from a certain manufacturer that utilizes a driver that maybe all the frequencies are coming from one direction or one specific driver versus having seven or eight different drivers or something along those lines.
(03:10):
Just so you get a little bit more uniformity.
So,
you know,
kind of wrap that up.
Yes,
the speaker placement is important,
but getting someone out to your house really should be your goal.
Get an expert out there so we can talk about the type of speakers that you're gonna be putting in and the type of amplification before we really talk about the placement of those speakers.
(03:31):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I like the fact that you went right to calibration because it kind of shows that the question in and of itself is kind of a false question.
So again,
if we had a recording studio or I had a room,
I was going to build around my system.
All right.
Well,
I know my left speaker should be 30 degrees from the main seating location.
(03:55):
My center should be directly in front of me.
My right speaker should be 30 degrees to the right.
My rears should be perfectly in line with those front,
left and right speakers.
Um,
rear,
left,
rear,
right,
and those utmost should be in line with those uh a couple of feet in front of the listening position,
right,
(04:15):
depending on the size of the space.
So I've got,
yeah,
a kind of a guide here.
I've got a good idea.
What is this gonna look like when,
if we had a quote unquote perfect room.
But the truth is nobody has a perfect room because nobody builds a room around a system except for a very few select folks.
(04:36):
So until you get into either the pro side of things or you get into the really,
really,
really high end,
uh you're just trying to get as close to that as possible.
And then the A VR goes to town and this is where the processing becomes uh so absolutely critical.
Um And to your point,
(04:57):
I love the fact that you mentioned the type of speaker because the type of speaker you pick will either do better or worse,
aesthetically and placement like position.
And so you have to look at your space uniquely,
right?
I think it should also be mentioned that your first five channels should all be at ear level as close as you possibly can 100% right?
(05:21):
Your utmost channels should be in the ceiling as much as they possibly can.
Um Can you do toppers?
Yes,
you can.
But really you need a flat rectangular ceiling,
you know,
or a flat rectangular room with,
with not a vaulted ceiling because you need,
you need a short enough ceiling to wear those that sound will bounce off.
(05:45):
But typically,
if you've got a flat ceiling,
it's usually attic space above it.
Unless you're on the first floor or you live in an apartment,
that's really the best the options for for up fring speakers at most stoppers.
Um,
otherwise,
you know,
I mean,
even in my,
and I live in a town home,
my theater is on the first floor.
(06:06):
It's the living room,
kitchen,
dining room space.
Um My atmos speakers,
I cut them in my team.
Our installers did and I don't want to say I did it.
Uh We cut them in as close to the front of the room as we could to where they could.
And I did eight inch speakers so they could reach up in there and drill down the header and run the wire.
So,
you know,
(06:26):
really my utmost speakers are a little too far forward,
but I was able to get them far enough away and with the help of the receiver and calibrating,
it just,
it does just as good of a job.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And my rears,
my rears are,
you know,
in the ceiling.
I don't really,
I mean,
I have a kitchen island behind me that my wife probably would let me put speaker or speakers in,
(06:50):
but I don't have a way to get a wire to it.
So,
yeah.
Well,
and it's a home,
right.
It's not a recording studio.
I worked in a place in Los Angeles for many years and the rear speakers were hanging from the ceiling angled down at us.
Right.
And they weren't perfectly in line,
so to speak with the fronts at their same level and the conversation about why we did that as well because what are we doing?
(07:18):
We're getting into what people are really going to listen to.
A lot of folks have speakers in the ceiling sometimes.
That's the only choice you got.
So,
you know what?
Great,
awesome.
Go for it.
Like,
don't,
don't sweat the placement.
Uh,
it's really not a big deal.
All right.
Uh,
let's move on.
Let's go to our next one.
We've got,
(07:38):
should I do a TV or a projector?
00.
Do you wanna take this one,
Dan,
do you want me to take it?
I,
I can but go for it.
You start first.
Ok.
Ok.
Uh So again,
um the first question I'm gonna ask you once you ask me that question is,
(07:59):
well,
first,
I'm gonna say,
well,
projectors,
your best solution for getting the biggest screen and depending on your budget,
in my opinion,
the best performance uh as far as being a cinematic experience.
But the first question I'm gonna ask is where is this going?
Is it going in a room in the living room that's downstairs?
And there's 18 windows to the left of you and it opens up into the kitchen where there's um,
(08:22):
you know,
recess lighting and pendant lighting hanging down over the kitchen island and a lot of other ambient lights in the space.
Um,
or is it gonna be a dedicated viewing space or semi dedicated a viewing like a bonus room?
Because ultimately,
as good as some of the projectors and projector screens we have are,
(08:45):
they are not gonna completely eliminate ambient light by rejecting all that light.
So A TV may be your better,
a better solution in some cases.
Um But ultimately,
if your end game is biggest screen giving you the most cinematic experience for your money projection is still the best way to go.
(09:05):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And it is room dependent 1000%.
Sometimes you can look at a space and it's extremely formal.
Right?
And to your point,
the pendant lights and it's a kitchen and you've got all these other things going on to hang a big black or big white projector from the ceiling is going to throw off that aesthetic then.
Yeah.
All right.
Maybe projector is not a fantastic solution when your screen has to go over a fireplace.
(09:31):
Uh ok,
I get it.
That's,
that's not really practical.
At the same time,
there are other designs where putting a projector in a room makes a ton of sense and it can be something where you have a lot of light,
but it's to the window is to the right or left of the screen facing into the room,
right?
And there is a spot for that projector because the back wall is actually closed off.
(09:55):
It doesn't open up into six other rooms.
And so,
uh I had a client with a wonderful space and he had kind of these sections of windows.
12 and three.
And in the middle of the center one,
there was a motorized screen that came down out of the trim.
And so what's great about that is the screen was hidden.
It was a window when it needed to be a window.
(10:17):
And when we wanted a movie,
you hit the button and the screen drops and the projector was hidden in a cabinet up high in like these bookcase area.
And so guess what,
it was hidden away,
you didn't see the projector,
you didn't see the screen until it was time to watch something.
So,
uh you can make both work,
but it really is 1000% dependent on the room specifically.
(10:38):
Yep.
And I mean,
even with the,
the ultra short throws that are out there,
now,
it really does bring projection into more of a living room environment.
I mean,
the one that we have on display at our location is,
is,
I mean,
it's,
it's like any other,
you know,
place that sells audio visual equipment.
So it's a big warehouse with fluorescent lights everywhere and while it does wash the image out a little bit,
(11:04):
it's definitely watchable.
It's awesome.
Surprisingly good.
Yep.
Yep.
We,
we played rock band on it at store events,
you know,
whenever we've,
we've,
you know,
had after hours things,
something along those lines.
So,
um and it was in a fully lit space.
So,
uh if you can control that light a little bit projection may be a good solution.
(11:24):
Yep.
Absolutely.
Alright.
So uh here is our next one.
Uh isn't there wireless surround sound?
Yes,
next question.
(11:46):
Um There are,
yeah,
there are,
there are,
I mean,
yes,
wireless surround sound does exist.
Wireless completely does not.
And what I mean by that is it's wireless communication,
not wireless to each device.
(12:07):
Um Meaning it's got to have power one way or the other,
whether it's from a speaker wire,
a cat six or a power cable,
it's got to have power to be wireless.
So,
um you know,
not to say one brand is better than the other,
(12:27):
but the one that we probably do the most of is Sonos and they built,
they built themselves from the,
I mean,
from the ground up,
I mean,
we used to sell Sonos when nobody had ever heard of it and it,
it really is a great solution and if,
if you cannot run wires,
it is the best wireless sound solution in my opinion out there for the money.
(12:51):
Um But if you can run wires even for what you'll pay for a,
a 5.1 0.2 sound bar,
two speakers and a sub from them,
you could get a pretty decent,
you know,
5.1 0.2 speaker package,
architectural,
you know,
in the wall and the ceiling.
(13:12):
So,
um it really just comes down to again,
it seems like we've got a theme here getting someone out to talk with you about those solutions.
If it's something you're capable of,
if it's capable of being done.
Um,
if,
again,
if you're in an apartment,
I mean,
even in my bedroom,
I've got a Sonos Arc,
don't hate me.
Audio files.
(13:32):
Um,
but I mean,
it,
it really is a great solution for a space that I really can't run wires in because of the way the roof line is above my bedroom.
Yeah.
Well,
and I do wanna call out there is uh w a uh there is a couple of standards out there for what we call wireless surround,
(13:54):
but the wireless I think is the misnomer,
right?
That's where the,
where folks really get caught up in the idea because I think what they're really asking is,
isn't there a wireless speaker that operates on a battery or something like that,
you know,
runs on my Wi Fi or something,
or Bluetooth or something?
We'll talk a little bit about that in a second and it just works right,
(14:15):
because everything has gone to wireless.
And so when you don't uh really do technology on a regular basis basis,
it's easy to think quite honestly.
Well,
everything in technology today is wireless and everything just happens to work and it's like,
you know,
that's not really real.
Uh there are standards and protocols and things that have to go in and,
(14:37):
and to your point,
even with Sonos,
even though it is technically a wireless communication,
you still need a power cable.
So,
is it really wireless or did we just pick a different wire for that application?
Right.
We use ROM X speaker wire or,
you know,
cat six instead of uh power or something along those lines.
(14:58):
So.
Right.
Yeah,
because with,
with,
uh,
with Sonos,
I mean,
they do have the Sonos AMP that can power a pair of speakers,
but you've got to run speaker wire to those speakers.
So whether you do their wireless rear speakers that plug into power or a pair of speakers in the ceiling with a Sonos still gotta get power to them.
(15:19):
Now,
I'm sure that if I were to go Google wireless speaker here,
that you might be able to find something that is out there that has a battery in it or something that you can put in the ceiling and you can replace it.
Maybe that does exist.
I'm sure it does in some form or fashion,
but we gotta think about reliability on top and performance on top of the other things of the,
(15:42):
of it just being wireless.
And typically in,
I mean,
there's,
there's other competitors that we sell next to Sonos that are big names that don't perform near as well.
Um So those whatever brand that you can search on the internet and find I would be concerned with reliability because it doesn't have a dedicated power source.
(16:06):
Yeah.
And,
and I agree with you,
it's,
it's like saying?
Ok,
I want to go get,
uh,
Ramen.
Um,
you know,
from a really nice,
no,
seriously.
And I,
I shouldn't have gone back to food but it's here we go.
Everyone,
the episode.
I'm sorry,
everyone.
Uh,
but if I want to get ramen and I go to a Japanese restaurant that specializes in Ramen and we're talking about a nicer,
(16:33):
you know,
experience.
I might spend 15 to 20 bucks on a bowl of Ramen.
That is not the same thing as the 99 cent pack of Ramen that I get at the grocery store.
Like there's a difference.
So when we say surround sound,
we're really assuming there that we do have uh a true surround sound experience with good quality speakers.
(16:55):
And so that's kind of the juxtaposition there,
right?
Like should I wire it or should I go?
Wireless is kind of that uh that other presupposition there,
right?
So,
yep,
yep.
All right.
Moving on.
This is fun,
man.
I actually kind of like this.
Yeah.
Um How do I split my cable box legally?
(17:19):
Oh,
so what,
what do you mean by split first?
You know,
so I'll tell you the story.
Right guy comes in and he's like,
I've got three TV.
S and I hate uh my provider,
right?
And I don't want to pay a box fee anymore for these guys and yada,
(17:40):
yada yada,
isn't there something that I can do to split the wire?
Like back in the day,
like you could get a co a splitter and,
you know,
I could get some channels for my neighbor kind of a thing.
Like,
isn't that kind of a thing nowadays?
So that's really,
I think the heart of the question is,
can we get around the system a little bit?
Uh Is there a way to do it uh with HDM I mm Not really.
(18:03):
Not without,
we're gonna get there.
Yes,
there are ways to do it at the budget of what you would just spend by paying for those two extra boxes over the course of five years.
No,
it,
it's,
there's not really an option.
Uh I mean,
without using just,
you know,
an HDM I splitter that might work with H DC P protocols where you,
(18:28):
but then you've got to run HDMIS across your house or cat six and HDM I extenders and it gets really complicated.
Um The legal way of doing it would be to utilize an HDM I matrix device of some sort.
Um You know,
we've talked about using Savant several times.
(18:50):
They have an IP video matrix where you plug in 48 sources and you can stack those to more if you want to.
But like the project I'm working on right now,
four of the eight inputs are cable boxes.
They have 16 televisions in this house.
They can watch any of those four cable boxes on any of the 16 TV.
(19:12):
S all at once.
The reason we chose four is because there's two people that live there and a possibility of two guests watching some,
all something different at the same time.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Um,
but we also have three Apple TV.
S as other sources where you can sign into,
we have,
(19:33):
they have Xfinity.
So they sign into the Xfinity app on their Apple TV.
And it's essentially another cable box.
So I know a lot of,
a lot of folks are trying to cut the cord cut down in service.
But if you still kind of want that cable box experience without renting another box from them.
As long as your account has streaming capabilities,
(19:53):
you can typically just log in on an Apple or Roku or Amazon fire device that's connected to your TV.
And you're not paying the five or 10 bucks a month uh to have it on that device.
Yep.
Well,
and I'm glad that you said it the way that you did,
which is that we think about the way TV transmission used to be done was through Coax.
(20:15):
But now that everything is going to be network based,
that Ethernet,
that cat six,
right?
Or having a strong wireless network with wireless access points is going to give you a new infrastructure with which to work.
And so the answer is,
you know,
actually,
unlike surround sound here,
I'm just talking about getting the video signal to a player.
(20:38):
So it's a lot easier in the digital domain and within that network infrastructure to be able to do that.
So,
1000% man,
I think it's,
it's absolutely fantastic.
Yep.
And,
you know,
I brought up HDM I matrix earlier that IP video solution from Savant is minimum 30 K.
Yeah.
(20:58):
And that's for,
that's for four zones.
Like,
well,
I mean,
not even,
not even eight,
you know,
not even eight devices so that 100 and $50 a month you're gonna save is not gonna pay for that in a year,
right?
That's what I meant.
It's not gonna pay for it in five years.
It's a luxury item.
So,
(21:18):
and if you have to ask,
you can't afford it and that's ok.
Let's not get hurt feelings.
I don't,
I don't have it in my house.
I have Apple TV,
S everywhere with youtube TV.
So well and honestly,
so I just did a consultation for somebody who used to have uh a component matrix from 10 years ago and they were sitting there saying like,
(21:44):
how do we get the signal all over the place?
And I was like,
well,
if we do the up to date version of it,
you're looking at X if I do Apple TV,
S throughout your house times six,
like,
I'm sorry,
but there's just no cost comparison for less than $1000.
I'm right back where we started,
right?
For all of these TV.
S to get signal.
(22:04):
I mean,
it's,
it's really an amazing,
uh an amazing thing,
but you do have to kind of know the,
the right way to do it.
So.
Right.
Right.
I agree.
All right.
Uh I will take the next one because this is a personal,
uh this is personal for me.
(22:24):
So can't I just wire nut all of my speakers together to one amplifier,
a put channel.
Now,
I did uh full uh full disclosure,
I did add amplifier output channel.
Uh The question really was,
can I just wire note all my speakers uh together one.
(22:48):
And so all right,
here's the deal.
No,
you cannot do this.
Um When you take the output of an amplifier channel from a receiver or a stereo,
uh what you have is an eight ohm signal.
(23:08):
There is an electrical uh pressure that connects from that amplifier channel to the speaker.
So when you hook up one set of speakers,
you operate at eight ohms,
which is what the speaker is designed to do.
If you add another set of speakers to those amplifier channels,
that impedance drops to four ohms.
(23:29):
That means that the pressure has changed.
Now,
will it work?
You will get sound out of it but just like all things,
if the pressure is not correct,
it will not perform the way the manufacturer intended it.
So if you have a house OK.
Full of speakers.
Let's do the math.
(23:50):
Yeah,
I add another set of speakers to it.
Now we're down to two ohms.
Now,
I add another set of speakers to it.
Now,
I'm down to one ohm.
That means I have no more electrical resistance or pressure.
And what happens is the amplifier itself gets overloaded and blows up and you get smoke in your cabinet or wherever you decided to put this thing.
(24:12):
Um,
so,
no,
you cannot just wire,
not all of your speakers together and put them on one channel.
You will blow up your stuff.
Yep.
Yep.
And I,
I will,
I will mention it's,
it's not really something that you see a lot of anymore,
but adding a speaker selector is essentially the same thing.
There are some out there that do impedance matching and certain volume controls that do impedance matching.
(24:38):
But ultimately,
you should get enough amplification for the amount of speakers that you have.
Uh it's just the right way to do it and you're not gonna be causing damage to the speakers and,
or amplifier or both um by doing so well.
And not only that,
but like I've listened to stuff through an impedance matching uh volume control and we've,
(24:59):
I,
I've,
I've sold them and installed them and,
you know,
when we listen back on it,
I'm going,
why does this sound like?
Not great?
It's noisy.
It adds,
it adds a noise,
but at least in my experience it is noisy,
it's messy.
So I'm anyway,
we're not gonna hang up too much time on that.
(25:19):
But I do want to say,
uh,
no,
buy an AMP for every pair of speakers that you're supposed to have in your system.
And,
and this,
I,
I will,
I will say has happened to me specifically for a client who bought a house from a client who had,
uh,
I think it was like seven or eight zones and I'm walking,
(25:42):
I was at the house for an hour looking for all these speaker wires.
You know,
it's one of those things that's typically wired to a cabinet.
Well,
it was,
but there was just uh one set of binding posts in this cabinet.
So I'm like,
all right,
I guess I'll take this off.
So I take it off and there's just one speaker wire,
like there's no way that this is all on one speaker wire.
(26:03):
And then I just pulled on the wire a little bit and it started getting loose.
And then this huge bundle of wire,
all wire knotted together into one speaker wire falls out of the wall.
And the client was actually the receiver that the client,
the previous client left for them had died.
That was the reason why we were out there.
So we upgraded them to a multichannel amp and a couple of Sonos ports or connect I think is what they were at the time and they were happy and,
(26:32):
and listen,
there,
there's gonna be a cost there when you do distributed audio.
I understand,
you know,
a four zone amp is gonna be,
you know,
1000 bucks,
1500 bucks,
you know,
an 88 channel or eight zone amp.
Excuse me,
16 channels could be,
you know,
two grand 2500 bucks.
Yes,
there's a cost there.
Um,
but uh it doesn't make any sense to,
(26:52):
you know,
cut your system off at the knees.
So please just budget for it.
Like if you're not ready to do it today.
Great,
man.
Just hang out,
wait till you get that next bonus check and let's do it right.
So,
exactly.
All right,
here is kind of an interesting one.
What is a quote promo unquote TV?
(27:17):
And I guess that would probably qualify for speakers as well.
So what is a promo speaker?
Sure.
Sure.
So I,
I get this question and,
and uh I'm going to rephrase it a little bit as,
hey,
do you think I should wait till Black Friday to buy a TV?
(27:38):
And because that's,
that's what we're talking about here.
A promo television is,
is,
is that,
you know,
it's unfortunately over the past several years,
you have companies that on Black Friday will release a 65 inch television for $400.
Guess what?
That TV didn't exist until Black Friday.
(28:00):
And after five minutes after Black Friday starts,
that TV will no longer exist ever again because it is made specifically for that day with the costs of said television in mind already.
Yes,
we make money on those TV.
S in some form or fashion or we make nothing on them,
(28:23):
but we don't typically take a loss because it's some sort of vendor partnership that we have and I don't wanna get too specific into that because I don't deal with all that.
But what it is is a television or speaker that's built for a purpose with that cost in mind.
Hey,
we're gonna build this 65 inch TV.
That's gonna be priced at four or $500.
(28:45):
So,
what are we,
what's the manufacturer gonna do?
Well,
they gotta scoop things out.
Yep.
They're gonna,
they're gonna,
so,
well,
we'll just,
we'll just say Samsung because they're,
they're,
we probably sell more Samsung TV.
S than anything else out there.
Um,
Samsung to,
to get started has like 12 different models every year.
(29:08):
So it can be a little confusing in every size and every size.
So it can be a little confusing as a,
as a consumer.
I get it.
But they're gonna,
you know,
let's say they're,
they're entry level television,
65 inches,
which we sell,
I think right now for like 600 bucks.
It's not expensive.
(29:30):
It has three.
It's not a,
it's not a great television.
It's,
it's just,
it's a bedroom TV.
It's a great guest.
Bedroom TV,
being a TV,
snob,
but that TV has three HDM isa Network Jack and maybe an audio output.
Keep in mind that's the cheapest TV.
This Black Friday television will have two hdmis,
(29:52):
maybe a Network Jack.
And that's it.
Like,
so they're gonna scale back on that.
Um,
the quality of the parts are gonna be much lower.
So the parts are probably from a TV that was designed 10 years ago that they had a bunch of extra stuff for that.
They don't even have to pay for because they've already bought and that just extra parts lying around if you get what I'm saying?
(30:14):
Right.
It's,
it's built for a cost purpose,
not for a performance purpose.
And,
and I think the best way to say this is uh pretty much every example we're going to give you.
Sounds like hearsay.
Uh because the information on these televisions is extremely hard to find because guess what?
They're not part of the regular lineup.
(30:35):
That was the whole idea behind it in the first place.
And so you can,
you know,
get a really good value,
quote unquote.
Um But I think in all things with,
in life,
we realize like,
no,
we're gonna get what we pay for and it's not that I think it's gonna be a quote unquote bad TV,
in the sense that,
(30:55):
well,
I got a 65 inch or 75 inch for $400.
Like what did I think was gonna happen?
If every other 75 inch television out there should be 1200 to 1500 or two grand.
Then this at 75% less,
the price is not a,
I like you're not gonna beat the system.
(31:16):
People just don't do that.
So,
anyway,
I mean,
I've got a perfect example.
My,
my cousin,
uh goes out every f every Black Friday and somehow every year buys a new TV.
And it's usually because they're replacing the one they bought the year,
(31:36):
the year before or the year,
two years before because it's gone out.
I'm not disparaging a brand.
Take the brand name off of it.
It could be any brand,
right?
It's just,
it's not built with quality in mind.
Now,
the speakers on the other hand,
that's gonna depend because,
I mean,
there's a brand that we,
there's two brands actually that we sell,
(31:58):
that have a holiday model that essentially has just become a year round thing.
And honestly,
I use those a lot for audio distribution.
I don't use them necessarily in main.
Like,
I wanna get a great,
awesome sound in this room,
but for those extra rooms for 100 and 50 bucks,
(32:20):
for a pair,
that's normally 6 $700.
So it's,
it's hard to beat,
you know,
I mean,
and speakers are,
you know,
they don't,
they don't sound as good as,
you know,
the similar,
you know,
similar higher cost models,
but they're,
they're not as bad.
There's not a lot that can go wrong in an and wall speaker.
Right.
So as long as it sounds ok to you.
(32:41):
Sure.
That's,
that's not a bad,
that's not a bad deal.
Yeah.
And,
and I would agree with you,
uh,
you know,
in our previous episodes,
we've talked about the difference between a chip driven technology versus a mechanical technology and speakers are definitely in that mechanically driven technology.
Uh And after talking with the manufacturers and kind of looking under the hood,
so to speak,
you start to realize like,
(33:02):
no,
most of these are actually pretty solid.
Um to your point,
they're not as good as the regular lineup.
So,
is it going to be my first choice?
No.
Is it actually ok,
if I want to try and save some money and do something that I maybe otherwise wouldn't have had the ability to do?
(33:22):
Like I've got a,
you know,
an extra room,
for example,
like a kid's bedroom and they,
you know,
listen to music,
sometimes they don't listen to music all the time.
Great.
Awesome.
I've got a dining room.
We use it three times a year,
just the way the family lives.
Ok,
great.
We need to have speakers there.
Um That's a great place for us to scale back and save a few $100 in my main living room.
(33:44):
Am I doing them?
Probably not in my movie room.
Am I doing it?
Probably not in my own bedroom?
Am I doing it?
Probably not.
So I think you get the idea but,
uh,
yeah,
definitely watch out for,
uh,
for some of those TV.
S and by the way,
every manufacturer makes them.
So,
um,
there's there,
it's just part of the part of the landscape you got to worry about.
(34:07):
So,
yep.
All right.
Well,
uh,
let's keep on going here.
We've got a few more to go through if that's all right.
What is the box to make coax into?
HDM?
I,
and I'm adding also or component into HDM.
I,
so uh I'm just gonna,
(34:28):
for the sake of the,
the listener,
I'm assuming that uh if you're listening to this and you're still listening,
you're probably not technical.
So coax is RG six.
OK.
It's the round one that has the con the cable connection.
And so that's what you would normally see on your cable box,
right?
Uh HDM.
I,
is that kind of weird rectangle shape and it's kind of slanted in on the sides and so the bottom is a little shorter than the top.
(34:58):
Um And then component just to clarify is the five wire.
So that's a red,
a green and a blue as well as a uh white and a red for audio.
And so sometimes you'll see that as well.
So the question is,
can you take,
oh,
look at that.
That's HDMIY.
Well done,
(35:19):
sir.
I need to see if I can find component has RC A tips and we'll,
uh we'll talk more about RCAS in just a second.
Um,
but no,
like,
can you convert these two,
connection types uh from one to the other?
I mean,
(35:39):
yes,
there,
there are boxes that,
that do this.
Um,
it's not really something that you see a lot of anymore,
really where I've seen it the most when it comes to cox the HDM I is essentially one of the,
the,
the digital converter boxes that were utilized when they transitioned from analog broadcasts to digital over the air broadcasts.
(36:03):
And folks wanted to be able to,
and you know,
if their TV didn't have,
um you know,
a,
a digital tuna in it,
but it has HDM I,
and they wanted to get HD,
you could plug in this digital converter box that had an HD out so you could at least get HDM I to it.
(36:27):
Uh kind of the same thing with component.
Um It would kind of have the same thing.
Um There was a brand that we used to work with that did make a five,
you could use five coaxes to convert to HDM I or to component.
Um you know,
that was more for video distribution,
(36:49):
but really,
it's from when I've seen it,
it's been in just the digital converter boxes.
So it's not typically answering the question or figuring out what they want.
Right.
Well,
and I think you're,
you're 1000% correct and,
you know,
I,
I'll kind of take us down a slightly different road which is to say if you're trying to convert that source,
(37:14):
um,
there's probably a,
an actual missing piece,
right?
And that's kind of the main issue that we have to really address is you're missing some variation of gear.
So it's not often that you have an old VCR and you want to hook it up to your new TV,
but your new TV doesn't have a coax connection on it.
Um,
and so then you have to go through all these,
(37:35):
you know,
weird steps and weird conversions.
And so,
uh,
so you could probably missed along the lines.
Well,
maybe we should have just had a VCR player that has a digital output on it in the first place.
That's really kind of the,
the right design and they don't cost any more or any less than any other VCR that you're gonna look at there is in pro audio and video,
(37:56):
uh something called,
uh SD I,
um,
an SD I is uh something that's used,
uh especially when you're doing uh large scale venues and you have to get signal out uh across multiple televisions.
Um And there's a couple of companies that make SD I converters.
Um,
these do not work,
um,
unless you have the correct output uh signal from an SD I box.
(38:21):
And so you can't just plug in coax and think that it's gonna work.
The languages are not the same.
So,
um,
if you want to try and find something on the interweb,
uh,
feel free.
Uh Is that something that companies can really stand behind?
Uh The answer is no,
they typically do not.
Um So just buy or beware.
Uh,
a lot of those conversions are really not going to work the way that you want to.
(38:44):
And if you can get them to quote unquote work,
they won't sound or look good because they're not scaling the information the correct way.
So it's like,
let's go to a format.
For example,
I take an HD television or what we have today four K television,
which is ultra HD and I try and feed it a regular coax signal that's using standard definition.
(39:08):
Well,
guess what?
That's probably not gonna look very good on your four K Ultra HD television because it's not formatted correctly.
It was never remastered to be in that better format.
So even if you were able to get around quote unquote the system,
you'll still end up losing in terms of the picture quality.
So,
uh again,
(39:28):
just buy or beware,
let's just not,
let's just not go there.
So,
buyer beware,
I can't believe I just said that I kind of feel like it's like a reverse infomercial.
It's like what is,
what's going on here?
All right.
All right.
So,
Mark,
how do I get uh the image uh from a computer or tablet onto my TV?
(39:57):
Well,
um there's two ways one of them is just plug it in.
Um usually your,
your computer is good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Huh?
Um,
but most people don't wanna do that.
Usually the,
the term wirelessly is thrown in there.
Um,
so usually the next question is all right.
(40:17):
What,
what device is your source?
Right?
Are you,
is,
is it a Mac or a PC?
Is usually,
or an iphone ipad versus a PC?
Right?
Um,
because that's gonna help you out tremendously,
um,
at the end of the day to do that,
you just need a specific device that's either gonna receive that uh airplay or um you know,
(40:44):
whatever it is you're gonna use.
I know that Microsoft has their own wireless protocol,
MH L and some other things that are out there.
Um There's a specific wireless adapters that you need or an Apple TV to do that just depending on what your source is.
Um So like I have Apple,
I know Dan has Android.
So he,
he's gonna be able to,
(41:05):
to kind of explain that to you but like uh on my,
my uh macbook air that I've got or my iphone or my ipad,
I simply swipe down from whatever I'm doing and I can mirror my entire screen wirelessly.
Um the MH L adapter that I use for my PC on my main television downstairs is the same thing for my work laptop.
(41:27):
If I wanna be downstairs and get some work done while I'm making lunch or something.
Absolutely.
And on Android it is really as easy as swiping down from the top and there's this little button called smart view.
Um,
and that's really gonna be the thing that you're gonna start with and uh you'll just follow the prompts.
And as long as you have a compatible television,
(41:48):
you're on the same Wi Fi network.
Uh this is absolutely critical.
You are gonna be doing some,
some sharing of the video and audio data.
Uh That's gonna require good internet if your internet sucks and it's not gonna be very good,
that's not gonna work very well.
So just put in the back of your mind network based.
Uh but smart view is,
(42:08):
is the way to go and it is brand specific.
So you just want to make sure that you're double checking,
you know what you're uh what platform you're on and then you can go to the correct platform on your television and I know I brought up those devices that you connect,
but I think you kind of hit it on the head there,
like a lot of TV s have that stuff built into them nowadays.
(42:30):
I mean,
your big three Samsung,
Sony LG for sure are gonna have airplay and typically smart view because Samsung and Sony are Android based operating systems.
So yeah,
now that being said,
is it perfect?
No,
it probably isn't.
Will you potentially run into some delays and things like that?
(42:51):
Yeah,
maybe so just put in the back of your mind.
That's not a main technology.
I used to say this all the time,
like there's a TV,
is main technology is to produce an image.
Uh to be a smart TV,
is kind of its secondary technology.
It's not its main focus,
like it needs to be there,
it needs to do the things,
but it's really not the,
the primary purpose of the television.
(43:13):
And so while smart TV,
features have gotten a lot better through the years,
uh it's still main purpose is just to be a TV.
It's not really a full on computer.
So you may want to get,
if you are an Apple House,
get an Apple TV,
you may want to get if you're an Android House,
a Roku or something similar uh to be able to screen mirror uh those uh those devices and especially if it's like in a conference room situation or something like that,
(43:41):
that can be real sketchy because you don't always have the best Wi Fi or the most secure Wi Fi or,
and so you may or may want to rethink that plan.
Y yes,
you can do it at home and that's probably fine but probably not best in a commercial application.
Correct?
Yeah,
it's,
it's,
(44:02):
we,
we've probably mentioned it in an,
in an episode before,
but like I have a TV,
it's a Samsung plasma television.
It's actually at my mother-in-law's now that uh four years ago when we gave it to her or right before we gave it to her TV,
got an update and it deleted Netflix and Hulu and some of the other apps off of it because each year they have licensing agreements that they sign with all those streaming services.
(44:30):
And if they decide,
hey,
this T V's old enough to where we're not gonna sign that license agreement to continue it,
then those apps are gone.
But like I have a GEN two or three Apple TV that is still around on one of my televisions um because it's still constantly gets updated.
So having that dedicated streaming device,
I think is,
(44:50):
is a,
a plus for sure.
Yep.
All right,
let's keep on going.
We got one or two more and,
and uh so let's do a kind of a quick one mark.
What is the difference between Bluetooth and wireless?
(45:10):
Aren't they the same?
Uh They do both run on 2.4 gigahertz.
Hey,
look at that.
So um yes,
they're both wireless transfer protocols,
um both on the same frequency band,
but they use different type,
a different type of frequency transmission.
(45:30):
Um Bluetooth is designed for small file sizes um at a shorter bandwidth.
So it's,
it's not gonna transfer large files quickly.
Um Wi Fi is designed for much higher bandwidth,
meaning higher quality if you're talking about,
(45:51):
you know,
audio distribution or video distribution over those,
those uh device or those protocols,
excuse me.
Um But I mean,
I don't wanna get too technical,
but it's,
it's,
there's just different protocols within the 2.4 gigahertz bandwidth that allows them to travel different highways,
so to speak.
Think of Wi Fi as that bypass highway to get around all the traffic where Bluetooth is just designed to go from maybe the outer loop of the city to the center of the city.
(46:22):
Right.
Like,
think if you're getting something door dashed from one place to another,
that's what it's.
Bluetooth is kinda like getting doordash from that restaurant right down the road to your house.
It's a very quick trip.
Wi Fi is like,
hey,
I'm gonna take this trip,
you know,
to my parents' house in Ohio or something like that.
It's just what it's designed for.
And I think that's really the biggest call out.
(46:43):
Bluetooth is typically a 1 to 1,
right?
There's a,
there's some ways you can kind of cheat it to do maybe two or something like that.
But typically speaking,
a Bluetooth connection is going to be that 1 to 1 and it does top out around 30 ft.
So,
uh it's preferred to have that line of sight.
So,
yeah,
I've got a small speaker I want to connect to or my headphones from my pocket to my head.
(47:06):
Yeah,
short distance.
I love it.
Fantastic.
Let's use Bluetooth.
Um,
we want to do something longer or more substantial,
more permanent.
Um,
we really should be using the Wi Fi network.
So that's awesome.
All right.
Does a bigger TV,
mean a better TV and is bigger.
(47:26):
Always better.
Uh,
it,
it kind of goes back to the TV,
or Projector one,
I think a little bit.
I mean,
bigger,
in my opinion is better if you've got the right space for it.
But I've definitely had clients that put the wrong size television and their space and what I mean by that is they go way too big.
I know it's crazy.
But,
you know,
I,
(47:47):
probably eight years ago I had a client that it was right when the first Samsung,
like 78 inch curved television came out and it was a $10,000 television and I had this consultation set up,
I go to the guy's house and I walk in and he's like,
I want that 78 inch curved and that at the time,
the Panorama from Bowers and Wilkins was the best sound bar.
(48:09):
I want that with the Panorama soundbar at right there.
And the TV was as wide as the,
as the fireplace.
It,
it came out from the wall.
So you had the firebox that came out and they had built ins on each side.
It literally went edge to edge and I'm like,
you know,
this is gonna fill this whole wall,
you know.
That's ok.
Yeah,
I know.
And you know what?
(48:30):
It was cool.
They were awesome clients.
Um,
you know,
I've worked with them for several times after that.
But,
uh,
even he came to me at one point and I was like,
yeah,
I might have gone a little overboard there,
but it's ok.
Well,
um,
every manufacturer makes a different quality of model and they make that in different sizes.
So,
an O led from Sony,
(48:51):
for example,
uh,
or LG is a,
one of the best TV.
S that you can get.
Bar.
None.
Right.
Great technology.
Uh,
and it comes in a 48 inch,
right?
It comes in a 55 inch.
That's not a huge size for a television,
but it is one of the highest qualities of TV that you can get.
Um,
conversely,
you can also get an 85 inch,
(49:14):
uh,
Samsung,
um,
7000 series,
which is their entry level tier of,
of television now.
Yeah,
that's a bigger TV.
I get it,
it's a 75 inch or 85 inch.
Uh,
but you're getting their lowest quality manufactured television.
So just because it's a bigger TV,
doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be a better,
uh,
quality of television.
(49:36):
Um,
and where you,
where you'll notice that honestly is in the brightness and in the contrast,
uh you will definitely,
uh find that you're turning that television into its vivid or dynamic mode or turning the brightness up to try and compensate.
Um,
because,
uh,
it doesn't have enough lighting zones in order to correctly,
(49:57):
uh,
set that thing up.
And so I think it's important to just say,
you know,
yes,
there's obviously quality levels that you want to look at.
Um,
but,
uh,
as these TV s do continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Um,
and we have now,
I think 90 eights,
um,
like,
so you can get a really nice size television and that 98 I think is only 10 grand.
(50:21):
So it's still a lot.
There's a $7000 Samsung right now.
It's on sale for seven.
It's like 8000 retail.
But so it's still a lot for a TV.
I get it.
But um you know,
maybe not the first choice,
but again,
going back is if it's the right room,
um you know,
maybe that,
that makes sense.
And so I have helped folks get those because sometimes in the right space,
(50:45):
it does make sense,
but that's also already a high quality model.
You're in a mi middle or upper middle tier in order to get there.
Right.
So,
exactly.
Exactly.
And just to give you some,
you know,
a quick example,
one of our colleagues sold the 100 inch Sony Led four K led what,
(51:06):
three or four years ago?
And it was $60,000.
So we're talking a 98 inch,
probably better than that TV.
At this point,
let's be honest,
just because of the way technology upgrades,
you know,
for 1/10 it might,
you know,
actually that one was probably the Z series at the time.
(51:27):
So it might still be a better TV.
But either way it depends on how you define better.
So,
without the show.
Yeah,
let's keep going.
So,
anyway,
60 grand versus seven.
Yep.
That's,
I think the point of the comment,
right?
60,000 for a TV,
versus 7000 for a T that's only four years.
(51:50):
Right.
And the industry does it to itself,
man.
I wish they wouldn't do the pricing the way they do in a sense because it's like you just lose your value so fast.
But,
and there's,
there's,
there's,
there's always gonna be that $60,000 television.
Don't,
don't get us wrong here.
Like there is a TV that is in that price range.
There's 100 and $50,000 TV that we sell right now.
(52:11):
Yes,
technology does come down in price,
but there's always something to take its place too.
So.
All right.
All right.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
All right.
So can I plug RC a cables into speaker connectors?
I wanna take this one.
(52:31):
Yes.
Go ahead.
The answer is no,
you cannot do this.
All right,
rcas the red and white.
Like we've seen that wire before,
like the,
the old school cable uh speaker wire obviously is a bare wire connection.
So when you're having this conversation,
uh you should be thinking uh I've got a speaker and on the back of it are these terminals.
(52:57):
Um And I have to put bare wire into them.
I cannot use uh RC A cables to do that.
So what's happening there is uh to kind of just put it in perspective.
A speaker is what's called a passive uh device generally speaking.
And so what happens while your speaker is going to have speaker wire connectors and that gets wired into the speaker wire connectors on the back of a receiver or amplifier.
(53:26):
So that amplified signal carries a lot more power through it than the RC A cables do.
And so speaker level connections or what we call speaker level is actually a very high uh level of uh electrical signal.
Uh If you were to touch it with your hand,
you would feel an electric shock and it would be very,
(53:49):
very,
very unpleasant.
Um It may not kill you,
but it would be pretty close.
If it was coming out in a Mac camp,
it would probably make you hurt a lot depending on the Mac camp.
Uh Yep.
So uh 1.25 would be a very unpleasant experience.
(54:10):
All right.
So if I have an RC A cable,
uh that particular connection is what we call line level.
Um And uh I won't go too deep into the pro side.
They have kind of something a little bit in between um at a plus four DB.
But uh most consumer electronics are gonna use RC A cables to just pass signal from one device to another.
(54:34):
It's not amplified,
right?
It's uh just loud enough,
so to speak,
or just enough current to be able to get the signal from point A to point B,
but it's not gonna hurt you.
So if you,
for example,
hook up a subwoofer,
there is an RC A connection on that one and you'll notice that that speaker actually plugs into the wall,
you're gonna give it its own power source.
(54:56):
And so that's your first clue.
Does this unit plug into the wall?
Because if it does,
then I'm gonna need an RC A cable to go to it.
If this unit does not plug into the wall,
I'm gonna need a speaker wire connection to go to it.
Um And that's gonna go to an amplifier.
So you see this most with uh subwoofers,
(55:17):
usually subwoofers that came with an,
with a home theater in a box which you don't really see a lot of anymore.
But those subwoofers used to have just a speaker wire connection on them.
And the,
you know,
the home theater in a box would just,
you know,
it wasn't designed as a real surround sound necessarily,
(55:38):
it was designed kind of like a all in one piece.
So if you try to take that speaker and plug it into a receiver,
it's not really designed for it.
So impedance wouldn't match.
And before you know,
it,
like it sounds garbled and crackly and you probably blew up the speaker because you're feeding you know the wrong type of power to it.
And so I,
I will say there is an exception to that,
(55:59):
which is if you're going to run full range off of an AMP.
But at that point,
you're probably having a conversation with a professional,
right?
You're just gonna be putting in the correct speak on style connector.
And so there is definitely a time where you may see a subwoofer wired in with speaker wire as opposed to RC A.
Um but uh for the do it yourself and for most consumer level gear,
(56:23):
that's just not going to be the case.
And so those two,
those two things separate.
All right,
we'll wrap up uh with this last one.
Um So at what point uh is technology subjective and at what point is it objective?
(56:45):
Um so when is it uh really appropriate for the customer to be making the decision as opposed to the salesperson?
Because this is,
I think something that happens all the time like we get so hung up on technology where you're going,
oh,
you gotta see all these great,
awesome cool things and you know,
the customer is looking at you going like,
(57:06):
yeah,
I don't really care about some of those things.
So this,
I think is just more of like as we get into the holiday season here coming up,
like some good maybe cut off points or some things that we can really think about.
Uh what should we consider subjective and what should we consider objective?
Sure.
I mean,
(57:26):
the biggest one and we may have even mentioned it before is speakers.
I mean,
we know,
we know the type of speakers,
Dan likes based on the,
the ce episode we had a few weeks ago.
Um but I mean,
no,
honestly,
it's,
it's one of those things where being able to demo speakers is probably one of the still one of my favorite parts of the job,
(57:52):
you know,
meeting a client and saying,
hey,
this is what I think is gonna sound best to you.
But if I've been right 100% of the times.
No,
I it's,
it's,
you know,
I could play my favorite speaker from name the brand and I truly believe that that would sound better to me in that room.
(58:12):
But they listen to it and think,
yeah,
you know,
this maybe isn't for me and that's ok because that is a subjective view.
So,
rather than getting upset about it,
you know,
as a professional,
I'll say,
hey,
all right.
Well,
let's,
let's pivot,
how about what do you think of these or maybe we'll start over and say,
how do you want your sound to look right.
And we'll start,
(58:33):
we'll start over from there and let them kind of pick the look of the speaker and then I'll go from there because that's gonna give me a brand to go off of.
Um,
so that I think is probably one of the biggest subjective pieces you could probably bring in television picture quality as well.
Although,
(58:53):
you know,
well,
and,
and I'd like to,
it's tough.
It's a tougher one.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
And I think I might,
uh,
maybe kind of preface it like this is that your budget is your objective reality,
right.
And it doesn't matter what it is that I'm going to tell you about how cool the thing is,
(59:15):
it doesn't matter if it's not in the budget,
then I understand,
right?
And so you need to have that conversation first to say,
ok,
what am I looking at for a set of speakers?
Am I looking at,
you know,
let's say I've got a healthy budget of,
you know,
1000 to $2000 a speaker.
Ok,
great.
Well,
within that right,
(59:36):
we have all sorts of subjective things that you could take into consideration because we now know like we've got kind of a range with which to work.
So you might like this brand or that brand.
I get that.
But objectively when you go from say $1000 a speaker to say $30,000 a speaker,
you're gonna be in a completely different category and there are some objective differences that you can't get around.
(01:00:04):
There are certain things in that technology.
So I think that the issue becomes kind of not clarifying right at the very beginning.
What category of gear should I be looking at and if you only want to spend $200 a speaker,
man.
Great,
awesome.
There's plenty of cool options in between that 203 $100 range.
You're gonna have all sorts of good choices that you can have.
(01:00:26):
I just don't think that you should be saying,
is it objectively worth it to spend this or to spend?
It's not,
it's,
it never is you gotta set kind of the range that you want to be at.
And when you hear that next option,
if you decide it's worth the difference,
man,
go for it.
Absolutely all day,
every day.
Um But that's not something that uh I think anybody's ever gonna push.
(01:00:48):
Um because that I think is really at the heart kind of of the question cried.
Um All right.
Well,
we have covered everything from everywhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually,
this is a fun one.
This is a definitely a fun one.
So we might do some of this again as more questions come in and if you have questions,
(01:01:10):
obviously feel free to send them,
we will address them as uh as they come in.
And if you want to try and stump us just know that I do research.
Uh So,
yeah,
there's no,
there's no live calling segments.
Uh Not yet,
not yet.
We'll get there.
Maybe there you go.
There you go.
So,
uh thank you very much for listening to The Sound of Design with Mark and Dan and uh like,
(01:01:35):
comment and subscribe,
share with your friends.
Uh If you guys like hanging out with us,
uh let other folks have that opportunity as well.
Um And uh we'll be releasing this one video as well.
So,
uh please give us some feedback,
what you guys think about that.
Uh We've got some upcoming guests as well,
so please stay tuned as we have some more folks coming on.
Uh We're gonna do some fun things so,
(01:01:57):
uh,
do not,
do not turn that dial.
Yep.
And I've also,
I've got a challenge for the listeners.
I want them to tell me who my favorite band is.
00,
man.
Oh,
man.
If it's not obvious,
then I don't know.
(01:02:17):
I want to tell you,
but I just wanna see if someone will answer me.
There you go.
Reach out to us at the design,
the design dot com.
Uh Check us out wherever you get your podcast,
obviously,
including youtube.
We'll see you guys on the next episode.
All right.
Well,
welcome to the Sound of Design with Mark and Dan.
And uh we are super excited to have you with us uh on today's episode,
uh We figured that uh now that we're getting into our 20th episode,
uh we would like to say,
uh I know it's fantastic.
(00:34):
Uh We've been hit with a lot of questions and this is from you guys.
Uh This is,
uh we've also sprinkled in a couple that we seem to get all the time uh when we're at the store or,
you know,
when we're in clients' homes,
uh people seem to,
to ask these kind of all over the place.
(00:54):
And so,
um how's that sound,
Mark?
Now,
I love it.
I'm super excited to answer some of these questions that we've gotten.
Excellent.
Excellent,
awesome.
Well,
we'll dive right into it.
Um What is the ideal speaker placement?
Well,
um this is one of my favorite questions to get because it's usually from someone who's walking in who's saying,
(01:20):
hey,
I want a 5.1 system which in previous episodes,
we've talked about this,
you don't want a 5.1.
You want surround sound and surround sound isn't just five speakers anymore.
It's at least seven in my opinion,
uh is,
if not more than that because Dolby Atmos exists.
And if you wanna talk about Dolby Atmos,
you can go back to our,
(01:41):
our episode that we talk about it in.
But,
um,
speaker placement is in an ideal world or in a perfect world.
Like if I'm setting up a recording studio or something along those lines,
speaker placement is very,
very important,
very important.
But realistically,
most of the rooms that we deal with in a residential space and that most of these clients have when they walk in asking this question is usually a living room that opens up to a kitchen and dining room with a vaulted ceiling.
(02:15):
So,
well,
I'm not saying speaker placement isn't important.
It,
it's,
it's not unless you can put it in the exact spot it needs to go in which you typically can't,
you then typically have to rely on the A VR to do the dirty work,
so to speak and they do that with calibration.
(02:38):
So in a lot of instances,
I'm I'm sure that you've probably done this the same.
I'll talk about the quality of calibration on better receivers for those type of space just so we can kind of overcome those obstacles.
Um On top of that,
recommending maybe a certain kind of speaker uh from a certain manufacturer that utilizes a driver that maybe all the frequencies are coming from one direction or one specific driver versus having seven or eight different drivers or something along those lines.
(03:10):
Just so you get a little bit more uniformity.
So,
you know,
kind of wrap that up.
Yes,
the speaker placement is important,
but getting someone out to your house really should be your goal.
Get an expert out there so we can talk about the type of speakers that you're gonna be putting in and the type of amplification before we really talk about the placement of those speakers.
(03:31):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I like the fact that you went right to calibration because it kind of shows that the question in and of itself is kind of a false question.
So again,
if we had a recording studio or I had a room,
I was going to build around my system.
All right.
Well,
I know my left speaker should be 30 degrees from the main seating location.
(03:55):
My center should be directly in front of me.
My right speaker should be 30 degrees to the right.
My rears should be perfectly in line with those front,
left and right speakers.
Um,
rear,
left,
rear,
right,
and those utmost should be in line with those uh a couple of feet in front of the listening position,
right,
(04:15):
depending on the size of the space.
So I've got,
yeah,
a kind of a guide here.
I've got a good idea.
What is this gonna look like when,
if we had a quote unquote perfect room.
But the truth is nobody has a perfect room because nobody builds a room around a system except for a very few select folks.
(04:36):
So until you get into either the pro side of things or you get into the really,
really,
really high end,
uh you're just trying to get as close to that as possible.
And then the A VR goes to town and this is where the processing becomes uh so absolutely critical.
Um And to your point,
(04:57):
I love the fact that you mentioned the type of speaker because the type of speaker you pick will either do better or worse,
aesthetically and placement like position.
And so you have to look at your space uniquely,
right?
I think it should also be mentioned that your first five channels should all be at ear level as close as you possibly can 100% right?
(05:21):
Your utmost channels should be in the ceiling as much as they possibly can.
Um Can you do toppers?
Yes,
you can.
But really you need a flat rectangular ceiling,
you know,
or a flat rectangular room with,
with not a vaulted ceiling because you need,
you need a short enough ceiling to wear those that sound will bounce off.
(05:45):
But typically,
if you've got a flat ceiling,
it's usually attic space above it.
Unless you're on the first floor or you live in an apartment,
that's really the best the options for for up fring speakers at most stoppers.
Um,
otherwise,
you know,
I mean,
even in my,
and I live in a town home,
my theater is on the first floor.
(06:06):
It's the living room,
kitchen,
dining room space.
Um My atmos speakers,
I cut them in my team.
Our installers did and I don't want to say I did it.
Uh We cut them in as close to the front of the room as we could to where they could.
And I did eight inch speakers so they could reach up in there and drill down the header and run the wire.
So,
you know,
(06:26):
really my utmost speakers are a little too far forward,
but I was able to get them far enough away and with the help of the receiver and calibrating,
it just,
it does just as good of a job.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And my rears,
my rears are,
you know,
in the ceiling.
I don't really,
I mean,
I have a kitchen island behind me that my wife probably would let me put speaker or speakers in,
(06:50):
but I don't have a way to get a wire to it.
So,
yeah.
Well,
and it's a home,
right.
It's not a recording studio.
I worked in a place in Los Angeles for many years and the rear speakers were hanging from the ceiling angled down at us.
Right.
And they weren't perfectly in line,
so to speak with the fronts at their same level and the conversation about why we did that as well because what are we doing?
(07:18):
We're getting into what people are really going to listen to.
A lot of folks have speakers in the ceiling sometimes.
That's the only choice you got.
So,
you know what?
Great,
awesome.
Go for it.
Like,
don't,
don't sweat the placement.
Uh,
it's really not a big deal.
All right.
Uh,
let's move on.
Let's go to our next one.
We've got,
(07:38):
should I do a TV or a projector?
00.
Do you wanna take this one,
Dan,
do you want me to take it?
I,
I can but go for it.
You start first.
Ok.
Ok.
Uh So again,
um the first question I'm gonna ask you once you ask me that question is,
(07:59):
well,
first,
I'm gonna say,
well,
projectors,
your best solution for getting the biggest screen and depending on your budget,
in my opinion,
the best performance uh as far as being a cinematic experience.
But the first question I'm gonna ask is where is this going?
Is it going in a room in the living room that's downstairs?
And there's 18 windows to the left of you and it opens up into the kitchen where there's um,
(08:22):
you know,
recess lighting and pendant lighting hanging down over the kitchen island and a lot of other ambient lights in the space.
Um,
or is it gonna be a dedicated viewing space or semi dedicated a viewing like a bonus room?
Because ultimately,
as good as some of the projectors and projector screens we have are,
(08:45):
they are not gonna completely eliminate ambient light by rejecting all that light.
So A TV may be your better,
a better solution in some cases.
Um But ultimately,
if your end game is biggest screen giving you the most cinematic experience for your money projection is still the best way to go.
(09:05):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And it is room dependent 1000%.
Sometimes you can look at a space and it's extremely formal.
Right?
And to your point,
the pendant lights and it's a kitchen and you've got all these other things going on to hang a big black or big white projector from the ceiling is going to throw off that aesthetic then.
Yeah.
All right.
Maybe projector is not a fantastic solution when your screen has to go over a fireplace.
(09:31):
Uh ok,
I get it.
That's,
that's not really practical.
At the same time,
there are other designs where putting a projector in a room makes a ton of sense and it can be something where you have a lot of light,
but it's to the window is to the right or left of the screen facing into the room,
right?
And there is a spot for that projector because the back wall is actually closed off.
(09:55):
It doesn't open up into six other rooms.
And so,
uh I had a client with a wonderful space and he had kind of these sections of windows.
12 and three.
And in the middle of the center one,
there was a motorized screen that came down out of the trim.
And so what's great about that is the screen was hidden.
It was a window when it needed to be a window.
(10:17):
And when we wanted a movie,
you hit the button and the screen drops and the projector was hidden in a cabinet up high in like these bookcase area.
And so guess what,
it was hidden away,
you didn't see the projector,
you didn't see the screen until it was time to watch something.
So,
uh you can make both work,
but it really is 1000% dependent on the room specifically.
(10:38):
Yep.
And I mean,
even with the,
the ultra short throws that are out there,
now,
it really does bring projection into more of a living room environment.
I mean,
the one that we have on display at our location is,
is,
I mean,
it's,
it's like any other,
you know,
place that sells audio visual equipment.
So it's a big warehouse with fluorescent lights everywhere and while it does wash the image out a little bit,
(11:04):
it's definitely watchable.
It's awesome.
Surprisingly good.
Yep.
Yep.
We,
we played rock band on it at store events,
you know,
whenever we've,
we've,
you know,
had after hours things,
something along those lines.
So,
um and it was in a fully lit space.
So,
uh if you can control that light a little bit projection may be a good solution.
(11:24):
Yep.
Absolutely.
Alright.
So uh here is our next one.
Uh isn't there wireless surround sound?
Yes,
next question.
(11:46):
Um There are,
yeah,
there are,
there are,
I mean,
yes,
wireless surround sound does exist.
Wireless completely does not.
And what I mean by that is it's wireless communication,
not wireless to each device.
(12:07):
Um Meaning it's got to have power one way or the other,
whether it's from a speaker wire,
a cat six or a power cable,
it's got to have power to be wireless.
So,
um you know,
not to say one brand is better than the other,
(12:27):
but the one that we probably do the most of is Sonos and they built,
they built themselves from the,
I mean,
from the ground up,
I mean,
we used to sell Sonos when nobody had ever heard of it and it,
it really is a great solution and if,
if you cannot run wires,
it is the best wireless sound solution in my opinion out there for the money.
(12:51):
Um But if you can run wires even for what you'll pay for a,
a 5.1 0.2 sound bar,
two speakers and a sub from them,
you could get a pretty decent,
you know,
5.1 0.2 speaker package,
architectural,
you know,
in the wall and the ceiling.
(13:12):
So,
um it really just comes down to again,
it seems like we've got a theme here getting someone out to talk with you about those solutions.
If it's something you're capable of,
if it's capable of being done.
Um,
if,
again,
if you're in an apartment,
I mean,
even in my bedroom,
I've got a Sonos Arc,
don't hate me.
Audio files.
(13:32):
Um,
but I mean,
it,
it really is a great solution for a space that I really can't run wires in because of the way the roof line is above my bedroom.
Yeah.
Well,
and I do wanna call out there is uh w a uh there is a couple of standards out there for what we call wireless surround,
(13:54):
but the wireless I think is the misnomer,
right?
That's where the,
where folks really get caught up in the idea because I think what they're really asking is,
isn't there a wireless speaker that operates on a battery or something like that,
you know,
runs on my Wi Fi or something,
or Bluetooth or something?
We'll talk a little bit about that in a second and it just works right,
(14:15):
because everything has gone to wireless.
And so when you don't uh really do technology on a regular basis basis,
it's easy to think quite honestly.
Well,
everything in technology today is wireless and everything just happens to work and it's like,
you know,
that's not really real.
Uh there are standards and protocols and things that have to go in and,
(14:37):
and to your point,
even with Sonos,
even though it is technically a wireless communication,
you still need a power cable.
So,
is it really wireless or did we just pick a different wire for that application?
Right.
We use ROM X speaker wire or,
you know,
cat six instead of uh power or something along those lines.
(14:58):
So.
Right.
Yeah,
because with,
with,
uh,
with Sonos,
I mean,
they do have the Sonos AMP that can power a pair of speakers,
but you've got to run speaker wire to those speakers.
So whether you do their wireless rear speakers that plug into power or a pair of speakers in the ceiling with a Sonos still gotta get power to them.
(15:19):
Now,
I'm sure that if I were to go Google wireless speaker here,
that you might be able to find something that is out there that has a battery in it or something that you can put in the ceiling and you can replace it.
Maybe that does exist.
I'm sure it does in some form or fashion,
but we gotta think about reliability on top and performance on top of the other things of the,
(15:42):
of it just being wireless.
And typically in,
I mean,
there's,
there's other competitors that we sell next to Sonos that are big names that don't perform near as well.
Um So those whatever brand that you can search on the internet and find I would be concerned with reliability because it doesn't have a dedicated power source.
(16:06):
Yeah.
And,
and I agree with you,
it's,
it's like saying?
Ok,
I want to go get,
uh,
Ramen.
Um,
you know,
from a really nice,
no,
seriously.
And I,
I shouldn't have gone back to food but it's here we go.
Everyone,
the episode.
I'm sorry,
everyone.
Uh,
but if I want to get ramen and I go to a Japanese restaurant that specializes in Ramen and we're talking about a nicer,
(16:33):
you know,
experience.
I might spend 15 to 20 bucks on a bowl of Ramen.
That is not the same thing as the 99 cent pack of Ramen that I get at the grocery store.
Like there's a difference.
So when we say surround sound,
we're really assuming there that we do have uh a true surround sound experience with good quality speakers.
(16:55):
And so that's kind of the juxtaposition there,
right?
Like should I wire it or should I go?
Wireless is kind of that uh that other presupposition there,
right?
So,
yep,
yep.
All right.
Moving on.
This is fun,
man.
I actually kind of like this.
Yeah.
Um How do I split my cable box legally?
(17:19):
Oh,
so what,
what do you mean by split first?
You know,
so I'll tell you the story.
Right guy comes in and he's like,
I've got three TV.
S and I hate uh my provider,
right?
And I don't want to pay a box fee anymore for these guys and yada,
(17:40):
yada yada,
isn't there something that I can do to split the wire?
Like back in the day,
like you could get a co a splitter and,
you know,
I could get some channels for my neighbor kind of a thing.
Like,
isn't that kind of a thing nowadays?
So that's really,
I think the heart of the question is,
can we get around the system a little bit?
Uh Is there a way to do it uh with HDM I mm Not really.
(18:03):
Not without,
we're gonna get there.
Yes,
there are ways to do it at the budget of what you would just spend by paying for those two extra boxes over the course of five years.
No,
it,
it's,
there's not really an option.
Uh I mean,
without using just,
you know,
an HDM I splitter that might work with H DC P protocols where you,
(18:28):
but then you've got to run HDMIS across your house or cat six and HDM I extenders and it gets really complicated.
Um The legal way of doing it would be to utilize an HDM I matrix device of some sort.
Um You know,
we've talked about using Savant several times.
(18:50):
They have an IP video matrix where you plug in 48 sources and you can stack those to more if you want to.
But like the project I'm working on right now,
four of the eight inputs are cable boxes.
They have 16 televisions in this house.
They can watch any of those four cable boxes on any of the 16 TV.
(19:12):
S all at once.
The reason we chose four is because there's two people that live there and a possibility of two guests watching some,
all something different at the same time.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Um,
but we also have three Apple TV.
S as other sources where you can sign into,
we have,
(19:33):
they have Xfinity.
So they sign into the Xfinity app on their Apple TV.
And it's essentially another cable box.
So I know a lot of,
a lot of folks are trying to cut the cord cut down in service.
But if you still kind of want that cable box experience without renting another box from them.
As long as your account has streaming capabilities,
(19:53):
you can typically just log in on an Apple or Roku or Amazon fire device that's connected to your TV.
And you're not paying the five or 10 bucks a month uh to have it on that device.
Yep.
Well,
and I'm glad that you said it the way that you did,
which is that we think about the way TV transmission used to be done was through Coax.
(20:15):
But now that everything is going to be network based,
that Ethernet,
that cat six,
right?
Or having a strong wireless network with wireless access points is going to give you a new infrastructure with which to work.
And so the answer is,
you know,
actually,
unlike surround sound here,
I'm just talking about getting the video signal to a player.
(20:38):
So it's a lot easier in the digital domain and within that network infrastructure to be able to do that.
So,
1000% man,
I think it's,
it's absolutely fantastic.
Yep.
And,
you know,
I brought up HDM I matrix earlier that IP video solution from Savant is minimum 30 K.
Yeah.
(20:58):
And that's for,
that's for four zones.
Like,
well,
I mean,
not even,
not even eight,
you know,
not even eight devices so that 100 and $50 a month you're gonna save is not gonna pay for that in a year,
right?
That's what I meant.
It's not gonna pay for it in five years.
It's a luxury item.
So,
(21:18):
and if you have to ask,
you can't afford it and that's ok.
Let's not get hurt feelings.
I don't,
I don't have it in my house.
I have Apple TV,
S everywhere with youtube TV.
So well and honestly,
so I just did a consultation for somebody who used to have uh a component matrix from 10 years ago and they were sitting there saying like,
(21:44):
how do we get the signal all over the place?
And I was like,
well,
if we do the up to date version of it,
you're looking at X if I do Apple TV,
S throughout your house times six,
like,
I'm sorry,
but there's just no cost comparison for less than $1000.
I'm right back where we started,
right?
For all of these TV.
S to get signal.
(22:04):
I mean,
it's,
it's really an amazing,
uh an amazing thing,
but you do have to kind of know the,
the right way to do it.
So.
Right.
Right.
I agree.
All right.
Uh I will take the next one because this is a personal,
uh this is personal for me.
(22:24):
So can't I just wire nut all of my speakers together to one amplifier,
a put channel.
Now,
I did uh full uh full disclosure,
I did add amplifier output channel.
Uh The question really was,
can I just wire note all my speakers uh together one.
(22:48):
And so all right,
here's the deal.
No,
you cannot do this.
Um When you take the output of an amplifier channel from a receiver or a stereo,
uh what you have is an eight ohm signal.
(23:08):
There is an electrical uh pressure that connects from that amplifier channel to the speaker.
So when you hook up one set of speakers,
you operate at eight ohms,
which is what the speaker is designed to do.
If you add another set of speakers to those amplifier channels,
that impedance drops to four ohms.
(23:29):
That means that the pressure has changed.
Now,
will it work?
You will get sound out of it but just like all things,
if the pressure is not correct,
it will not perform the way the manufacturer intended it.
So if you have a house OK.
Full of speakers.
Let's do the math.
(23:50):
Yeah,
I add another set of speakers to it.
Now we're down to two ohms.
Now,
I add another set of speakers to it.
Now,
I'm down to one ohm.
That means I have no more electrical resistance or pressure.
And what happens is the amplifier itself gets overloaded and blows up and you get smoke in your cabinet or wherever you decided to put this thing.
(24:12):
Um,
so,
no,
you cannot just wire,
not all of your speakers together and put them on one channel.
You will blow up your stuff.
Yep.
Yep.
And I,
I will,
I will mention it's,
it's not really something that you see a lot of anymore,
but adding a speaker selector is essentially the same thing.
There are some out there that do impedance matching and certain volume controls that do impedance matching.
(24:38):
But ultimately,
you should get enough amplification for the amount of speakers that you have.
Uh it's just the right way to do it and you're not gonna be causing damage to the speakers and,
or amplifier or both um by doing so well.
And not only that,
but like I've listened to stuff through an impedance matching uh volume control and we've,
(24:59):
I,
I've,
I've sold them and installed them and,
you know,
when we listen back on it,
I'm going,
why does this sound like?
Not great?
It's noisy.
It adds,
it adds a noise,
but at least in my experience it is noisy,
it's messy.
So I'm anyway,
we're not gonna hang up too much time on that.
(25:19):
But I do want to say,
uh,
no,
buy an AMP for every pair of speakers that you're supposed to have in your system.
And,
and this,
I,
I will,
I will say has happened to me specifically for a client who bought a house from a client who had,
uh,
I think it was like seven or eight zones and I'm walking,
(25:42):
I was at the house for an hour looking for all these speaker wires.
You know,
it's one of those things that's typically wired to a cabinet.
Well,
it was,
but there was just uh one set of binding posts in this cabinet.
So I'm like,
all right,
I guess I'll take this off.
So I take it off and there's just one speaker wire,
like there's no way that this is all on one speaker wire.
(26:03):
And then I just pulled on the wire a little bit and it started getting loose.
And then this huge bundle of wire,
all wire knotted together into one speaker wire falls out of the wall.
And the client was actually the receiver that the client,
the previous client left for them had died.
That was the reason why we were out there.
So we upgraded them to a multichannel amp and a couple of Sonos ports or connect I think is what they were at the time and they were happy and,
(26:32):
and listen,
there,
there's gonna be a cost there when you do distributed audio.
I understand,
you know,
a four zone amp is gonna be,
you know,
1000 bucks,
1500 bucks,
you know,
an 88 channel or eight zone amp.
Excuse me,
16 channels could be,
you know,
two grand 2500 bucks.
Yes,
there's a cost there.
Um,
but uh it doesn't make any sense to,
(26:52):
you know,
cut your system off at the knees.
So please just budget for it.
Like if you're not ready to do it today.
Great,
man.
Just hang out,
wait till you get that next bonus check and let's do it right.
So,
exactly.
All right,
here is kind of an interesting one.
What is a quote promo unquote TV?
(27:17):
And I guess that would probably qualify for speakers as well.
So what is a promo speaker?
Sure.
Sure.
So I,
I get this question and,
and uh I'm going to rephrase it a little bit as,
hey,
do you think I should wait till Black Friday to buy a TV?
(27:38):
And because that's,
that's what we're talking about here.
A promo television is,
is,
is that,
you know,
it's unfortunately over the past several years,
you have companies that on Black Friday will release a 65 inch television for $400.
Guess what?
That TV didn't exist until Black Friday.
(28:00):
And after five minutes after Black Friday starts,
that TV will no longer exist ever again because it is made specifically for that day with the costs of said television in mind already.
Yes,
we make money on those TV.
S in some form or fashion or we make nothing on them,
(28:23):
but we don't typically take a loss because it's some sort of vendor partnership that we have and I don't wanna get too specific into that because I don't deal with all that.
But what it is is a television or speaker that's built for a purpose with that cost in mind.
Hey,
we're gonna build this 65 inch TV.
That's gonna be priced at four or $500.
(28:45):
So,
what are we,
what's the manufacturer gonna do?
Well,
they gotta scoop things out.
Yep.
They're gonna,
they're gonna,
so,
well,
we'll just,
we'll just say Samsung because they're,
they're,
we probably sell more Samsung TV.
S than anything else out there.
Um,
Samsung to,
to get started has like 12 different models every year.
(29:08):
So it can be a little confusing in every size and every size.
So it can be a little confusing as a,
as a consumer.
I get it.
But they're gonna,
you know,
let's say they're,
they're entry level television,
65 inches,
which we sell,
I think right now for like 600 bucks.
It's not expensive.
(29:30):
It has three.
It's not a,
it's not a great television.
It's,
it's just,
it's a bedroom TV.
It's a great guest.
Bedroom TV,
being a TV,
snob,
but that TV has three HDM isa Network Jack and maybe an audio output.
Keep in mind that's the cheapest TV.
This Black Friday television will have two hdmis,
(29:52):
maybe a Network Jack.
And that's it.
Like,
so they're gonna scale back on that.
Um,
the quality of the parts are gonna be much lower.
So the parts are probably from a TV that was designed 10 years ago that they had a bunch of extra stuff for that.
They don't even have to pay for because they've already bought and that just extra parts lying around if you get what I'm saying?
(30:14):
Right.
It's,
it's built for a cost purpose,
not for a performance purpose.
And,
and I think the best way to say this is uh pretty much every example we're going to give you.
Sounds like hearsay.
Uh because the information on these televisions is extremely hard to find because guess what?
They're not part of the regular lineup.
(30:35):
That was the whole idea behind it in the first place.
And so you can,
you know,
get a really good value,
quote unquote.
Um But I think in all things with,
in life,
we realize like,
no,
we're gonna get what we pay for and it's not that I think it's gonna be a quote unquote bad TV,
in the sense that,
(30:55):
well,
I got a 65 inch or 75 inch for $400.
Like what did I think was gonna happen?
If every other 75 inch television out there should be 1200 to 1500 or two grand.
Then this at 75% less,
the price is not a,
I like you're not gonna beat the system.
(31:16):
People just don't do that.
So,
anyway,
I mean,
I've got a perfect example.
My,
my cousin,
uh goes out every f every Black Friday and somehow every year buys a new TV.
And it's usually because they're replacing the one they bought the year,
(31:36):
the year before or the year,
two years before because it's gone out.
I'm not disparaging a brand.
Take the brand name off of it.
It could be any brand,
right?
It's just,
it's not built with quality in mind.
Now,
the speakers on the other hand,
that's gonna depend because,
I mean,
there's a brand that we,
there's two brands actually that we sell,
(31:58):
that have a holiday model that essentially has just become a year round thing.
And honestly,
I use those a lot for audio distribution.
I don't use them necessarily in main.
Like,
I wanna get a great,
awesome sound in this room,
but for those extra rooms for 100 and 50 bucks,
(32:20):
for a pair,
that's normally 6 $700.
So it's,
it's hard to beat,
you know,
I mean,
and speakers are,
you know,
they don't,
they don't sound as good as,
you know,
the similar,
you know,
similar higher cost models,
but they're,
they're not as bad.
There's not a lot that can go wrong in an and wall speaker.
Right.
So as long as it sounds ok to you.
(32:41):
Sure.
That's,
that's not a bad,
that's not a bad deal.
Yeah.
And,
and I would agree with you,
uh,
you know,
in our previous episodes,
we've talked about the difference between a chip driven technology versus a mechanical technology and speakers are definitely in that mechanically driven technology.
Uh And after talking with the manufacturers and kind of looking under the hood,
so to speak,
you start to realize like,
(33:02):
no,
most of these are actually pretty solid.
Um to your point,
they're not as good as the regular lineup.
So,
is it going to be my first choice?
No.
Is it actually ok,
if I want to try and save some money and do something that I maybe otherwise wouldn't have had the ability to do?
(33:22):
Like I've got a,
you know,
an extra room,
for example,
like a kid's bedroom and they,
you know,
listen to music,
sometimes they don't listen to music all the time.
Great.
Awesome.
I've got a dining room.
We use it three times a year,
just the way the family lives.
Ok,
great.
We need to have speakers there.
Um That's a great place for us to scale back and save a few $100 in my main living room.
(33:44):
Am I doing them?
Probably not in my movie room.
Am I doing it?
Probably not in my own bedroom?
Am I doing it?
Probably not.
So I think you get the idea but,
uh,
yeah,
definitely watch out for,
uh,
for some of those TV.
S and by the way,
every manufacturer makes them.
So,
um,
there's there,
it's just part of the part of the landscape you got to worry about.
(34:07):
So,
yep.
All right.
Well,
uh,
let's keep on going here.
We've got a few more to go through if that's all right.
What is the box to make coax into?
HDM?
I,
and I'm adding also or component into HDM.
I,
so uh I'm just gonna,
(34:28):
for the sake of the,
the listener,
I'm assuming that uh if you're listening to this and you're still listening,
you're probably not technical.
So coax is RG six.
OK.
It's the round one that has the con the cable connection.
And so that's what you would normally see on your cable box,
right?
Uh HDM.
I,
is that kind of weird rectangle shape and it's kind of slanted in on the sides and so the bottom is a little shorter than the top.
(34:58):
Um And then component just to clarify is the five wire.
So that's a red,
a green and a blue as well as a uh white and a red for audio.
And so sometimes you'll see that as well.
So the question is,
can you take,
oh,
look at that.
That's HDMIY.
Well done,
(35:19):
sir.
I need to see if I can find component has RC A tips and we'll,
uh we'll talk more about RCAS in just a second.
Um,
but no,
like,
can you convert these two,
connection types uh from one to the other?
I mean,
(35:39):
yes,
there,
there are boxes that,
that do this.
Um,
it's not really something that you see a lot of anymore,
really where I've seen it the most when it comes to cox the HDM I is essentially one of the,
the,
the digital converter boxes that were utilized when they transitioned from analog broadcasts to digital over the air broadcasts.
(36:03):
And folks wanted to be able to,
and you know,
if their TV didn't have,
um you know,
a,
a digital tuna in it,
but it has HDM I,
and they wanted to get HD,
you could plug in this digital converter box that had an HD out so you could at least get HDM I to it.
(36:27):
Uh kind of the same thing with component.
Um It would kind of have the same thing.
Um There was a brand that we used to work with that did make a five,
you could use five coaxes to convert to HDM I or to component.
Um you know,
that was more for video distribution,
(36:49):
but really,
it's from when I've seen it,
it's been in just the digital converter boxes.
So it's not typically answering the question or figuring out what they want.
Right.
Well,
and I think you're,
you're 1000% correct and,
you know,
I,
I'll kind of take us down a slightly different road which is to say if you're trying to convert that source,
(37:14):
um,
there's probably a,
an actual missing piece,
right?
And that's kind of the main issue that we have to really address is you're missing some variation of gear.
So it's not often that you have an old VCR and you want to hook it up to your new TV,
but your new TV doesn't have a coax connection on it.
Um,
and so then you have to go through all these,
(37:35):
you know,
weird steps and weird conversions.
And so,
uh,
so you could probably missed along the lines.
Well,
maybe we should have just had a VCR player that has a digital output on it in the first place.
That's really kind of the,
the right design and they don't cost any more or any less than any other VCR that you're gonna look at there is in pro audio and video,
(37:56):
uh something called,
uh SD I,
um,
an SD I is uh something that's used,
uh especially when you're doing uh large scale venues and you have to get signal out uh across multiple televisions.
Um And there's a couple of companies that make SD I converters.
Um,
these do not work,
um,
unless you have the correct output uh signal from an SD I box.
(38:21):
And so you can't just plug in coax and think that it's gonna work.
The languages are not the same.
So,
um,
if you want to try and find something on the interweb,
uh,
feel free.
Uh Is that something that companies can really stand behind?
Uh The answer is no,
they typically do not.
Um So just buy or beware.
Uh,
a lot of those conversions are really not going to work the way that you want to.
(38:44):
And if you can get them to quote unquote work,
they won't sound or look good because they're not scaling the information the correct way.
So it's like,
let's go to a format.
For example,
I take an HD television or what we have today four K television,
which is ultra HD and I try and feed it a regular coax signal that's using standard definition.
(39:08):
Well,
guess what?
That's probably not gonna look very good on your four K Ultra HD television because it's not formatted correctly.
It was never remastered to be in that better format.
So even if you were able to get around quote unquote the system,
you'll still end up losing in terms of the picture quality.
So,
uh again,
(39:28):
just buy or beware,
let's just not,
let's just not go there.
So,
buyer beware,
I can't believe I just said that I kind of feel like it's like a reverse infomercial.
It's like what is,
what's going on here?
All right.
All right.
So,
Mark,
how do I get uh the image uh from a computer or tablet onto my TV?
(39:57):
Well,
um there's two ways one of them is just plug it in.
Um usually your,
your computer is good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Huh?
Um,
but most people don't wanna do that.
Usually the,
the term wirelessly is thrown in there.
Um,
so usually the next question is all right.
(40:17):
What,
what device is your source?
Right?
Are you,
is,
is it a Mac or a PC?
Is usually,
or an iphone ipad versus a PC?
Right?
Um,
because that's gonna help you out tremendously,
um,
at the end of the day to do that,
you just need a specific device that's either gonna receive that uh airplay or um you know,
(40:44):
whatever it is you're gonna use.
I know that Microsoft has their own wireless protocol,
MH L and some other things that are out there.
Um There's a specific wireless adapters that you need or an Apple TV to do that just depending on what your source is.
Um So like I have Apple,
I know Dan has Android.
So he,
he's gonna be able to,
(41:05):
to kind of explain that to you but like uh on my,
my uh macbook air that I've got or my iphone or my ipad,
I simply swipe down from whatever I'm doing and I can mirror my entire screen wirelessly.
Um the MH L adapter that I use for my PC on my main television downstairs is the same thing for my work laptop.
(41:27):
If I wanna be downstairs and get some work done while I'm making lunch or something.
Absolutely.
And on Android it is really as easy as swiping down from the top and there's this little button called smart view.
Um,
and that's really gonna be the thing that you're gonna start with and uh you'll just follow the prompts.
And as long as you have a compatible television,
(41:48):
you're on the same Wi Fi network.
Uh this is absolutely critical.
You are gonna be doing some,
some sharing of the video and audio data.
Uh That's gonna require good internet if your internet sucks and it's not gonna be very good,
that's not gonna work very well.
So just put in the back of your mind network based.
Uh but smart view is,
(42:08):
is the way to go and it is brand specific.
So you just want to make sure that you're double checking,
you know what you're uh what platform you're on and then you can go to the correct platform on your television and I know I brought up those devices that you connect,
but I think you kind of hit it on the head there,
like a lot of TV s have that stuff built into them nowadays.
(42:30):
I mean,
your big three Samsung,
Sony LG for sure are gonna have airplay and typically smart view because Samsung and Sony are Android based operating systems.
So yeah,
now that being said,
is it perfect?
No,
it probably isn't.
Will you potentially run into some delays and things like that?
(42:51):
Yeah,
maybe so just put in the back of your mind.
That's not a main technology.
I used to say this all the time,
like there's a TV,
is main technology is to produce an image.
Uh to be a smart TV,
is kind of its secondary technology.
It's not its main focus,
like it needs to be there,
it needs to do the things,
but it's really not the,
the primary purpose of the television.
(43:13):
And so while smart TV,
features have gotten a lot better through the years,
uh it's still main purpose is just to be a TV.
It's not really a full on computer.
So you may want to get,
if you are an Apple House,
get an Apple TV,
you may want to get if you're an Android House,
a Roku or something similar uh to be able to screen mirror uh those uh those devices and especially if it's like in a conference room situation or something like that,
(43:41):
that can be real sketchy because you don't always have the best Wi Fi or the most secure Wi Fi or,
and so you may or may want to rethink that plan.
Y yes,
you can do it at home and that's probably fine but probably not best in a commercial application.
Correct?
Yeah,
it's,
it's,
(44:02):
we,
we've probably mentioned it in an,
in an episode before,
but like I have a TV,
it's a Samsung plasma television.
It's actually at my mother-in-law's now that uh four years ago when we gave it to her or right before we gave it to her TV,
got an update and it deleted Netflix and Hulu and some of the other apps off of it because each year they have licensing agreements that they sign with all those streaming services.
(44:30):
And if they decide,
hey,
this T V's old enough to where we're not gonna sign that license agreement to continue it,
then those apps are gone.
But like I have a GEN two or three Apple TV that is still around on one of my televisions um because it's still constantly gets updated.
So having that dedicated streaming device,
I think is,
(44:50):
is a,
a plus for sure.
Yep.
All right,
let's keep on going.
We got one or two more and,
and uh so let's do a kind of a quick one mark.
What is the difference between Bluetooth and wireless?
(45:10):
Aren't they the same?
Uh They do both run on 2.4 gigahertz.
Hey,
look at that.
So um yes,
they're both wireless transfer protocols,
um both on the same frequency band,
but they use different type,
a different type of frequency transmission.
(45:30):
Um Bluetooth is designed for small file sizes um at a shorter bandwidth.
So it's,
it's not gonna transfer large files quickly.
Um Wi Fi is designed for much higher bandwidth,
meaning higher quality if you're talking about,
(45:51):
you know,
audio distribution or video distribution over those,
those uh device or those protocols,
excuse me.
Um But I mean,
I don't wanna get too technical,
but it's,
it's,
there's just different protocols within the 2.4 gigahertz bandwidth that allows them to travel different highways,
so to speak.
Think of Wi Fi as that bypass highway to get around all the traffic where Bluetooth is just designed to go from maybe the outer loop of the city to the center of the city.
(46:22):
Right.
Like,
think if you're getting something door dashed from one place to another,
that's what it's.
Bluetooth is kinda like getting doordash from that restaurant right down the road to your house.
It's a very quick trip.
Wi Fi is like,
hey,
I'm gonna take this trip,
you know,
to my parents' house in Ohio or something like that.
It's just what it's designed for.
And I think that's really the biggest call out.
(46:43):
Bluetooth is typically a 1 to 1,
right?
There's a,
there's some ways you can kind of cheat it to do maybe two or something like that.
But typically speaking,
a Bluetooth connection is going to be that 1 to 1 and it does top out around 30 ft.
So,
uh it's preferred to have that line of sight.
So,
yeah,
I've got a small speaker I want to connect to or my headphones from my pocket to my head.
(47:06):
Yeah,
short distance.
I love it.
Fantastic.
Let's use Bluetooth.
Um,
we want to do something longer or more substantial,
more permanent.
Um,
we really should be using the Wi Fi network.
So that's awesome.
All right.
Does a bigger TV,
mean a better TV and is bigger.
(47:26):
Always better.
Uh,
it,
it kind of goes back to the TV,
or Projector one,
I think a little bit.
I mean,
bigger,
in my opinion is better if you've got the right space for it.
But I've definitely had clients that put the wrong size television and their space and what I mean by that is they go way too big.
I know it's crazy.
But,
you know,
I,
(47:47):
probably eight years ago I had a client that it was right when the first Samsung,
like 78 inch curved television came out and it was a $10,000 television and I had this consultation set up,
I go to the guy's house and I walk in and he's like,
I want that 78 inch curved and that at the time,
the Panorama from Bowers and Wilkins was the best sound bar.
(48:09):
I want that with the Panorama soundbar at right there.
And the TV was as wide as the,
as the fireplace.
It,
it came out from the wall.
So you had the firebox that came out and they had built ins on each side.
It literally went edge to edge and I'm like,
you know,
this is gonna fill this whole wall,
you know.
That's ok.
Yeah,
I know.
And you know what?
(48:30):
It was cool.
They were awesome clients.
Um,
you know,
I've worked with them for several times after that.
But,
uh,
even he came to me at one point and I was like,
yeah,
I might have gone a little overboard there,
but it's ok.
Well,
um,
every manufacturer makes a different quality of model and they make that in different sizes.
So,
an O led from Sony,
(48:51):
for example,
uh,
or LG is a,
one of the best TV.
S that you can get.
Bar.
None.
Right.
Great technology.
Uh,
and it comes in a 48 inch,
right?
It comes in a 55 inch.
That's not a huge size for a television,
but it is one of the highest qualities of TV that you can get.
Um,
conversely,
you can also get an 85 inch,
(49:14):
uh,
Samsung,
um,
7000 series,
which is their entry level tier of,
of television now.
Yeah,
that's a bigger TV.
I get it,
it's a 75 inch or 85 inch.
Uh,
but you're getting their lowest quality manufactured television.
So just because it's a bigger TV,
doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be a better,
uh,
quality of television.
(49:36):
Um,
and where you,
where you'll notice that honestly is in the brightness and in the contrast,
uh you will definitely,
uh find that you're turning that television into its vivid or dynamic mode or turning the brightness up to try and compensate.
Um,
because,
uh,
it doesn't have enough lighting zones in order to correctly,
(49:57):
uh,
set that thing up.
And so I think it's important to just say,
you know,
yes,
there's obviously quality levels that you want to look at.
Um,
but,
uh,
as these TV s do continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Um,
and we have now,
I think 90 eights,
um,
like,
so you can get a really nice size television and that 98 I think is only 10 grand.
(50:21):
So it's still a lot.
There's a $7000 Samsung right now.
It's on sale for seven.
It's like 8000 retail.
But so it's still a lot for a TV.
I get it.
But um you know,
maybe not the first choice,
but again,
going back is if it's the right room,
um you know,
maybe that,
that makes sense.
And so I have helped folks get those because sometimes in the right space,
(50:45):
it does make sense,
but that's also already a high quality model.
You're in a mi middle or upper middle tier in order to get there.
Right.
So,
exactly.
Exactly.
And just to give you some,
you know,
a quick example,
one of our colleagues sold the 100 inch Sony Led four K led what,
(51:06):
three or four years ago?
And it was $60,000.
So we're talking a 98 inch,
probably better than that TV.
At this point,
let's be honest,
just because of the way technology upgrades,
you know,
for 1/10 it might,
you know,
actually that one was probably the Z series at the time.
(51:27):
So it might still be a better TV.
But either way it depends on how you define better.
So,
without the show.
Yeah,
let's keep going.
So,
anyway,
60 grand versus seven.
Yep.
That's,
I think the point of the comment,
right?
60,000 for a TV,
versus 7000 for a T that's only four years.
(51:50):
Right.
And the industry does it to itself,
man.
I wish they wouldn't do the pricing the way they do in a sense because it's like you just lose your value so fast.
But,
and there's,
there's,
there's,
there's always gonna be that $60,000 television.
Don't,
don't get us wrong here.
Like there is a TV that is in that price range.
There's 100 and $50,000 TV that we sell right now.
(52:11):
Yes,
technology does come down in price,
but there's always something to take its place too.
So.
All right.
All right.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
All right.
So can I plug RC a cables into speaker connectors?
I wanna take this one.
(52:31):
Yes.
Go ahead.
The answer is no,
you cannot do this.
All right,
rcas the red and white.
Like we've seen that wire before,
like the,
the old school cable uh speaker wire obviously is a bare wire connection.
So when you're having this conversation,
uh you should be thinking uh I've got a speaker and on the back of it are these terminals.
(52:57):
Um And I have to put bare wire into them.
I cannot use uh RC A cables to do that.
So what's happening there is uh to kind of just put it in perspective.
A speaker is what's called a passive uh device generally speaking.
And so what happens while your speaker is going to have speaker wire connectors and that gets wired into the speaker wire connectors on the back of a receiver or amplifier.
(53:26):
So that amplified signal carries a lot more power through it than the RC A cables do.
And so speaker level connections or what we call speaker level is actually a very high uh level of uh electrical signal.
Uh If you were to touch it with your hand,
you would feel an electric shock and it would be very,
(53:49):
very,
very unpleasant.
Um It may not kill you,
but it would be pretty close.
If it was coming out in a Mac camp,
it would probably make you hurt a lot depending on the Mac camp.
Uh Yep.
So uh 1.25 would be a very unpleasant experience.
(54:10):
All right.
So if I have an RC A cable,
uh that particular connection is what we call line level.
Um And uh I won't go too deep into the pro side.
They have kind of something a little bit in between um at a plus four DB.
But uh most consumer electronics are gonna use RC A cables to just pass signal from one device to another.
(54:34):
It's not amplified,
right?
It's uh just loud enough,
so to speak,
or just enough current to be able to get the signal from point A to point B,
but it's not gonna hurt you.
So if you,
for example,
hook up a subwoofer,
there is an RC A connection on that one and you'll notice that that speaker actually plugs into the wall,
you're gonna give it its own power source.
(54:56):
And so that's your first clue.
Does this unit plug into the wall?
Because if it does,
then I'm gonna need an RC A cable to go to it.
If this unit does not plug into the wall,
I'm gonna need a speaker wire connection to go to it.
Um And that's gonna go to an amplifier.
So you see this most with uh subwoofers,
(55:17):
usually subwoofers that came with an,
with a home theater in a box which you don't really see a lot of anymore.
But those subwoofers used to have just a speaker wire connection on them.
And the,
you know,
the home theater in a box would just,
you know,
it wasn't designed as a real surround sound necessarily,
(55:38):
it was designed kind of like a all in one piece.
So if you try to take that speaker and plug it into a receiver,
it's not really designed for it.
So impedance wouldn't match.
And before you know,
it,
like it sounds garbled and crackly and you probably blew up the speaker because you're feeding you know the wrong type of power to it.
And so I,
I will say there is an exception to that,
(55:59):
which is if you're going to run full range off of an AMP.
But at that point,
you're probably having a conversation with a professional,
right?
You're just gonna be putting in the correct speak on style connector.
And so there is definitely a time where you may see a subwoofer wired in with speaker wire as opposed to RC A.
Um but uh for the do it yourself and for most consumer level gear,
(56:23):
that's just not going to be the case.
And so those two,
those two things separate.
All right,
we'll wrap up uh with this last one.
Um So at what point uh is technology subjective and at what point is it objective?
(56:45):
Um so when is it uh really appropriate for the customer to be making the decision as opposed to the salesperson?
Because this is,
I think something that happens all the time like we get so hung up on technology where you're going,
oh,
you gotta see all these great,
awesome cool things and you know,
the customer is looking at you going like,
(57:06):
yeah,
I don't really care about some of those things.
So this,
I think is just more of like as we get into the holiday season here coming up,
like some good maybe cut off points or some things that we can really think about.
Uh what should we consider subjective and what should we consider objective?
Sure.
I mean,
(57:26):
the biggest one and we may have even mentioned it before is speakers.
I mean,
we know,
we know the type of speakers,
Dan likes based on the,
the ce episode we had a few weeks ago.
Um but I mean,
no,
honestly,
it's,
it's one of those things where being able to demo speakers is probably one of the still one of my favorite parts of the job,
(57:52):
you know,
meeting a client and saying,
hey,
this is what I think is gonna sound best to you.
But if I've been right 100% of the times.
No,
I it's,
it's,
you know,
I could play my favorite speaker from name the brand and I truly believe that that would sound better to me in that room.
(58:12):
But they listen to it and think,
yeah,
you know,
this maybe isn't for me and that's ok because that is a subjective view.
So,
rather than getting upset about it,
you know,
as a professional,
I'll say,
hey,
all right.
Well,
let's,
let's pivot,
how about what do you think of these or maybe we'll start over and say,
how do you want your sound to look right.
And we'll start,
(58:33):
we'll start over from there and let them kind of pick the look of the speaker and then I'll go from there because that's gonna give me a brand to go off of.
Um,
so that I think is probably one of the biggest subjective pieces you could probably bring in television picture quality as well.
Although,
(58:53):
you know,
well,
and,
and I'd like to,
it's tough.
It's a tougher one.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
And I think I might,
uh,
maybe kind of preface it like this is that your budget is your objective reality,
right.
And it doesn't matter what it is that I'm going to tell you about how cool the thing is,
(59:15):
it doesn't matter if it's not in the budget,
then I understand,
right?
And so you need to have that conversation first to say,
ok,
what am I looking at for a set of speakers?
Am I looking at,
you know,
let's say I've got a healthy budget of,
you know,
1000 to $2000 a speaker.
Ok,
great.
Well,
within that right,
(59:36):
we have all sorts of subjective things that you could take into consideration because we now know like we've got kind of a range with which to work.
So you might like this brand or that brand.
I get that.
But objectively when you go from say $1000 a speaker to say $30,000 a speaker,
you're gonna be in a completely different category and there are some objective differences that you can't get around.
(01:00:04):
There are certain things in that technology.
So I think that the issue becomes kind of not clarifying right at the very beginning.
What category of gear should I be looking at and if you only want to spend $200 a speaker,
man.
Great,
awesome.
There's plenty of cool options in between that 203 $100 range.
You're gonna have all sorts of good choices that you can have.
(01:00:26):
I just don't think that you should be saying,
is it objectively worth it to spend this or to spend?
It's not,
it's,
it never is you gotta set kind of the range that you want to be at.
And when you hear that next option,
if you decide it's worth the difference,
man,
go for it.
Absolutely all day,
every day.
Um But that's not something that uh I think anybody's ever gonna push.
(01:00:48):
Um because that I think is really at the heart kind of of the question cried.
Um All right.
Well,
we have covered everything from everywhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually,
this is a fun one.
This is a definitely a fun one.
So we might do some of this again as more questions come in and if you have questions,
(01:01:10):
obviously feel free to send them,
we will address them as uh as they come in.
And if you want to try and stump us just know that I do research.
Uh So,
yeah,
there's no,
there's no live calling segments.
Uh Not yet,
not yet.
We'll get there.
Maybe there you go.
There you go.
So,
uh thank you very much for listening to The Sound of Design with Mark and Dan and uh like,
(01:01:35):
comment and subscribe,
share with your friends.
Uh If you guys like hanging out with us,
uh let other folks have that opportunity as well.
Um And uh we'll be releasing this one video as well.
So,
uh please give us some feedback,
what you guys think about that.
Uh We've got some upcoming guests as well,
so please stay tuned as we have some more folks coming on.
Uh We're gonna do some fun things so,
(01:01:57):
uh,
do not,
do not turn that dial.
Yep.
And I've also,
I've got a challenge for the listeners.
I want them to tell me who my favorite band is.
00,
man.
Oh,
man.
If it's not obvious,
then I don't know.
(01:02:17):
I want to tell you,
but I just wanna see if someone will answer me.
There you go.
Reach out to us at the design,
the design dot com.
Uh Check us out wherever you get your podcast,
obviously,
including youtube.
We'll see you guys on the next episode.
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