March 26, 2025 • 55 mins
While Todd is out this week, Craig & Steve Musser, Director of Sales & Marketing at WOW Video Tours go over some strategies to help you grow your client base. How much does personality play into how you approach your business development plan? Can you have different methods within the same company with different business development specialists? What are the ways you develop client relationships utilizing your personality and strengths?
Chapter Timestamps:
0:00 Episode Open
01:26 Guest Intro - Steve Musser
01:51 Business Development Strategies
05:38 Large Markets & Saturation
08:52 The Effect of Personality
10:10 Creative Marketing Ideas
53:49 Episode Wrap-up
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
so I think that's that'skind of unique in our industry,
is that you can partner withthose other players in the in the industry
that are not competing against you,and you guys can actually help each other.
Welcome to the Spiro Podcast.
Managing your real estate, photographyand videography business
with your hostsTodd Kivimaki and Craig Magrum.
(00:27):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
Spiro is a software platform.
If you're new to the podcast,it's a software
platform designed to really helpyou manage your day to day real estate
media business,and ultimately to help you scale as well.
We'd like to see you growand really do well in this industry.
(00:48):
I'm Craig Magrum,host of the podcast podcast Spit It Out.
I am a professional communicatorright off the podcast.
For those of you that have seen thisbefore, welcome back to another week.
Glad to have you
and really appreciate
the time that you take out eachand every week to watch and or listen,
during your work week.
We we're humbled by that.
And, just, grateful for the opportunityto speak into your life and your business.
(01:12):
All right, well, this week,a little bit different.
Todd is out on vacationfor some much needed R&R, and,
so I, I'm running this without him, but
no stranger to the to the podcast.
Our guest and, familiar face, Mr.
Steve Musser,who is the, director of sales
(01:34):
and marketing for Wow Video Tours,which is our real estate media business.
On the other side of things from Spiro.
So, Steve, welcome.
Glad to have you join. Join mehere this week.
Yeah, Craig.
-Thanks for having me back.- Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we're going to keep this fairly,fairly focused, Steve.
And we're just going to diveright into things.
(01:54):
Normally we we do some Spiro updates,but with Todd being out,
we're going to forego that this week and,just dive right into really,
ultimately whatwhat is a listener question that came in?
Nick and Nick and I have been talking backand forth quite a bit on Facebook,
and he's been picking my brainon some things.
And, he asks a really good questionthat we really haven't,
(02:15):
discussed lately, in depth.
And that's the, the, the subject of salesand business development.
And with Steve being our,our director of sales and marketing,
I thought this
this would be a great, week to have him onand share some of his insights and,
experience, particularly Steve,in the area of larger markets,
(02:36):
you know, large metro areas and somebodytrying to get into this industry.
So that's kind of what I'd liketo pick on your brain on this week.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'd love to dig into it.
Yeah.
So Nick was sharing with me, you know,he's he's trying to get legs under him
and start to build,you know, clientele, things like that.
And there's a lot to considerwhen you when you're
(02:59):
talking about the, the area of salesand business development.
So the first thing that came to mind isI was thinking about,
you know, the the podcastthis morning is where we were recording.
Steve, is there.
There'sso many different personalities and,
ways of doing sales,it seems like, or things that you hear.
(03:19):
But is there, is there really one, one
main way to develop sales or is theredifferent ways that you can do it?
I know that's a really broad question,
but just we'll start broadand kind of narrow down.
So I would say yes or no.
So there's a million different waysthat you can
structure your sales teamor if it's just you as a solopreneur,
(03:43):
there's a different ways you can approachthat sales side of things.
The one thing that that is, standardacross the board is just consistency.
So you have to have that consistencyin your approach, in your tracking
and your follow ups, everything else to,to make sure that the sales program
is working, whether it's you or a teamor however you have that structured.
(04:03):
But there are a million different waysto get that consistency done.
Right?
Yeah.
And we'll dive more into that.
So when you say consistency,what does that exactly look like.
How do you stay consistent in this field.
And it
what does that even look like or mean tosomebody.
This may be new to sales and businessdevelopment.
(04:26):
Yeah.
So when I say consistency
what I'm basically referring tois the fact that and Craig,
you know this more than anybodyby walking into an office
and, you know, maybe dropping off treatsor, you know, meeting some of the team
there at an office or doing a cold call
or whateverthe case might be on your actions.
Bottom line is typically one
(04:47):
time is not going to change the trajectoryof your business.
It's not going to win,possibly even a client out of that.
Sometimes it takes, you know, severalvisits, several calls, several follow ups.
It I mean, we've had a lotof relationships that we built
that took years to,
to kind of get across that finish lineand, and have a good relationship
that we're working togetherto help their business.
(05:08):
So that is, the key and the consistencyis just don't don't get so overwhelmed,
you know, don't expect instant resultson any of your actions.
You know, it's it's
definitely a long game,but everything that you're doing today
is preparing that that groundworkor that foundation for your sales program
moving forward.
And if you stay consistent in it,you you will see results.
(05:29):
So you just have to kind ofkeep plugging away
and making sure that your time spent,you know, the best way possible.
But you will get those results over time.
Yeah, I think that
that can be the frustrating part iswhen you're trying to get an effort going,
especially in a larger market,you know, like like a Dallas or,
you know, one of our markets,Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati,
if you're new and there's already is aespecially if there's established,
(05:55):
competition,you know, other people in that same space,
it's not going to be easybecause a lot of those realtors
already have established relationshipswith other photographers.
So kind of the frustrationfor the new person getting into it
is if if they're not getting tractionright away, how long can they survive
(06:15):
trying to get this businessgoing with not a lot of results.
So consistent consistency,definitely important.
But do you have any advice maybe on,you know, how somebody can hang in there
when when it does take some timeto, to get an effort going.
Yeah, yeah. So I, I understand that too.
I mean as you're growing your business,you need to see results in order to,
(06:39):
to keep revenue coming into your companyand, and then keep that consistency.
We going to continue to see resultslong term.
So there are a few thingsthat I always say that to lead off
with that are kind of like the basics.
And from that you can kind of determinewhat the low hanging fruit
is in that market.
And so the first thing that I always say,regardless of the size of your market,
(06:59):
is get the data, you know, if you can getany kind of data on the market,
typically, you know,
if you have any connectionsin the community with, you know, realtors
or the board or whatever the case is,try to get a agent ranking report,
and that will tell you a little bitabout what is happening out in the market.
You know, whowho are the people that are doing
(07:20):
the most business out therein that specific market?
You know, are they doing mainly listings
or are they doing buyertransactions, things along those lines?
Because I think that is as aas a small business
and trying to get resultsas quickly as possible.
That's something that you wantto turn your attention to, because
without that data, you know, you'reyou don't know
(07:41):
if you're spending your time in a waythat is the most efficient.
So, so having that, that data andbeing able to go down the list and say,
you know, hey,I've been calling this person
for six monthsand I haven't been able to connect yet.
And then you find out that they, they dotwo listings a year, maybe not even that.
Then, you know, that'sprobably not your target client.
You know, you're looking for somebodywith a little bit more volume.
(08:02):
So I think if you start with the data andand kind of get it, get a
good understanding of where the market
is, you know, who, who are thethe people that are doing
and not necessarilyeven the most transactions,
but doing enough transactionsthat you can, you know,
kind of partner up with them and,and help their business grow.
And then they're going to help youin the long run as well.
So start there,try to get as much that as possible.
(08:24):
And I think that gives youa good framework on
making sure that your time spent well onwhatever task that you're completing.
So let's play off that a little bit okay.
So say we we identify, the topfive agents in the market.
And we really want to try and establishsome sort of relationship with them
and maybe have them try us.
We offer thema free shoot or something like that.
(08:46):
How much does personality go
into, trying to establishthat initial relationship with somebody?
You know, Steve, you've done sales.
I've done sales.
We've got Christhat takes care of our Columbus market.
Joy, there in Charlotteand then Pam for for Dayton,
in Cincinnati.
And then we got Carterwith, with Fort Wayne.
(09:07):
You've got ayou've got a mix of personalities here
that you're leadingas our director of marketing and sales.
How much does personalitygo into trying to,
make that first contact witha, you know, a top agent in a market?
Yeah, yeah.
And honestly, it'snot even the top agents.
It's all agents, you know, depending on
(09:28):
when you're making those,those outreaches.
But, yeah.
Personality plays a big part of itbecause everybody has their strengths.
Everybody has their comfort zoneon what they're most comfortable with
and what they excel with.
And our our salesteam is a good example of that.
You know, Joy is is the a vet,you know, master,
as far as
she’s queen,she is queen of, event planning.
(09:49):
Absolutely.
She's out there holding events, you know,at least one a week, if not multiple.
And she's coordinating and and so,you know, she plays her
strengths in that way to where she,she has those connections.
She has other partners in thein the market
that she connects with and kind of helpsput everything together.
Let me key off up on that real quick.
So yeah, you justyou just said other partners.
(10:10):
What what does that look like.
So say you know John in
in Gainesville, Florida.
I'm just making something up.
He's started to get to knowsome of the other industry players.
What what does that look like?
Inviting other partnersinto an event that you might.
Yeah. Host for for realtors.
Yeah.
(10:30):
Our our industry is kind of,kind of unique in that way to,
to to where there is, you know, our coreclient is the realtor and brokerage.
And so around that realtor and brokerage,there are,
you know, dozens of other partnersthat that they're working with day
in, day out on all their transactions.
And it gives us a unique opportunityto partner up with them.
(10:51):
So that could be insurance agents,that could be mortgage brokers,
that could be title departments.
You know anything along those lines?
We're targeting the same end user.
We're targeting that that realtorand our goals are the same.
We want to partner with them and offerwhat our services to help them
grow their business.
And we grow togetheron that side of things.
(11:12):
And so I think that's that'skind of unique in our industry,
is that you can partner withthose other players in the in the industry
that are not competing against you,and you guys can actually help each other.
And we do that a lot.
Joy's a great example of that.
You know, she partners with thosethose mortgage brokers and, and title,
you know, title agenciesand everything else to where they can pull
(11:33):
their resources and their effortsand time together to, host an event
or to maybe, you know, have a promotionthat goes out to agents.
And then that way, you'reyou're getting more bang
for your buck on that side of things,both on the time invested,
because you should be able
to split some of that timeto coordinate some of those efforts.
And then also resources,
(11:54):
you know, enjoys the exampleshe holds, you know, these events.
And a lot of times I'll provide lunch orsnacks or, you know, different, different,
you know,
different things available to the agentsthat are stopping in for that class.
Another one that she doesa lot is is information.
So she has any experts in the real estateindustry or social media
or anything along those lines.
(12:15):
So she'll reach outand try to partner with them.
And everybody can promotetheir own business to the same agents.
And it's a lot more cost effective andtime effective on your on your calendar.
You know, as I think about this.
So in my market,I don't really have time to do events
or plan events or those sorts of things,but I can see the value.
(12:35):
And I've never thought about thisby by partnering with other established,
industry peoples,you know, say a mortgage broker.
I, a title person or an inspector
that already is establishedif they agree to do an event with you,
that's kind of lending credibility to youas, as a new person
(12:56):
in the media field for real estate.
And yeah, what a what a great.
And it does go both ways. Do so.
So they're they're kind of
bringing their audience to youand you're bringing your audience to them.
And it's a win win across the board.
You know there's no competitionthere. It's just collaboration.
And you can get out there andand really have some fun with it.
(13:18):
You know, we've done some.
It doesn't even have to be an event.
So I know a lot of timeswe say event and people kind of shy away
because it seems like such a big dealto kind of plan an event.
You can get there eventually.
Enjoy is a perfect example of that,is that she has it so systemized
that it's nothing to herto hurry up and plan an event,
but it doesn'tall have to tie back to that.
(13:40):
I mean, it could be even a webinar.
It could be,
you know, partnering to sponsor a golftournament or something along those lines.
So you can pull your resources togetherto, to be able to do that.
And then you're bothbringing your audiences as well,
and then hopefully hittingeven a larger audience.
And everybody is better because of it.
(14:02):
So as I'm thinking through eventsand, and,
you know, these other things that you justmentioned, golf tournaments or classes
or webinars, I'm thinking about boardevents that you could potentially sponsor.
So your local realtor board, I would say
if you're somebody new, becomean affiliate member of your local board
and get involved with sponsoringthe classes that they offer,
(14:23):
which most of the time is just buyingsome breakfast items
or something for the class or some snacksthey give you five minutes.
At the beginning of the class,you introduce yourself.
Steve, the thing that that we talk abouta lot in, in helping,
in consulting with our clients istheir face, is their brand.
Obviously,we want realtors to be on video.
Well, wouldn't it be the same for us?
(14:45):
- Our face is our brand. - Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So that that kind of ties into a big a bigterm that you hear us say a lot within.
Wow is top of mind.
So top of mind marketing.
And this this really all ties back to it.
So the goal with everything that you doon the sales side is to be
the first person they think ofwhen they have a need for your service.
(15:06):
So you know that that like I said,that can be quick.
It can be a long game.
It just kind of depends on the situation,the agent, everything else.
But whatever you can do to stayin front of that audience and the market,
you know, whether it is the sport,events, things along those lines.
And the cool thing about it is as we buildthose relationships, you know,
a couple months ago we got a callfrom the local board and they just
(15:29):
let us know that, they had a lot of agentsasking questions about AI.
And they said, would you like to come inand talk about it?
And that's not a presentationI've done before, but we we utilize
AI, you know, we're we're a tech company.
We're very familiar with it.
And so put together a presentation
through out thereand kind of address their basic,
you know, questions on AI and how touse it in real estate and everything else.
(15:52):
And I didn't bring lunch.I didn't do anything.
They just wanted the knowledge.
And that is just a great feelingwhen you have that trust
and and that expert status in the marketto where
the board's actually reaching out to yousaying, hey, we need this,
we think you're the right person to do it.
Can you come in and do this?
And then you get to go in front of 30,40 people and talk about it.
(16:13):
And even though you're not talkingabout your business and your brand, you're
you're actually building thatthat expert credibility on the back end
because they know who you are now.
They know thatyou know what you're talking about,
and they appreciate thatthe knowledge on that side of events.
Yeah.
And that all ties back into consistency.
So to get that kind of invitation,
(16:34):
obviouslyyou have to be known in the market.
And as somebody that's new you're like,well, I'm not known.
But that's where consistency
drives into all of this.
Become an affiliate member,show up at events and I
you get initially Toddand I've talked about this in the past,
initially when you're getting yourbusiness off the ground, there is a grind.
(16:55):
There's just always a grind portionof developing business right?
And it can be grueling.
But if you stick it outand stay consistent and stay visible and,
you know, be in front of of other people,they will get to know you.
And people buy from peoplethey know, like, and trust.
We we've heard that phrasea bazillion times, but trust has to come
(17:17):
be because you've had the consistencyand the track record of being visible
and proving good resultswith, you know, with a few shoots
that you do get initially. Yeah. So
go ahead, Steve.
Look, I was just I was going to sayas you're starting your business.
So one thing that that you just wantto keep in mind or as you're, you're,
you know, maybe a solopreneur
(17:38):
and starting to branch out and buildinga team or whatever the case is,
when you're when you're at that level,you know, just kind of,
get over the fear of it,
but understandthat you're going to have to it's
going to be time, money, or both in orderto, to bring in new clients.
And so the nice thing with that isyou can do you can throw money at it,
(18:00):
you know, you could do marketing,you could do social media advertising,
you can do,
you know, all various sponsorships, thingsalong those lines and spend the money.
So to kind of build that, that,
that brand behind your businessand be the one that they know
is an expert in the industryso you can do money or time.
You know, some like what
we were just talking about going outand and dropping off at offices
(18:23):
or doing presentations, thingsalong those lines, you know, and sometimes
it's a combination of time and moneythat that would be required for that.
But the nice thing is, believe it or not,you know, as you grow
and as you kind of develop these systemsand, and get everything in place,
than that time and money aspectalmost starts to fade away a little bit.
And I'm not saying it disappears,but with what we're talking about
(18:46):
is we have people now reaching out to us,you know, and saying,
hey, we want to do thisand we want you to be part of it.
And now all of a sudden,you look at that time and money
aspect is a lot lower than it usedto be in order to bring in new clients.
So that consistency leads up to that.
So that's the way to get to that,that level.
Right.
A perfect example of that, Steve,just just last night, last evening,
(19:09):
I got a text from,
from one of our longtime clientsthat I had initially started working with.
Years ago.
And she's like, hey,
would you would you, donate something
to the fundraising auction againthis year for this event that
I've been a part of since 2017?
And whether it was my own businessor then for Wow and,
(19:33):
when when you get involved in somethingon a consistent basis,
people see you as a partnerand they see that you're interested
in helping the industry,especially in your local market.
And just continuing to be at those events,continuing to support
those things, be a part of fundraisingauctions, things like that.
And they will introduce youto other people when
(19:54):
when you're at a, you know,a fundraising auction or something
that a particular brokerage is putting on,even if you're not the preferred vendor.
So this brokerage, Steve,you might even know who I'm talking about.
Every every Cinco deMayo, every year up here.
We are not the preferredvendor for this brokerage,
(20:14):
but we have been
a yearly sponsor of it,and we have a good amount
of their business, even thoughwe're not their their preferred vendor.
But it's big, but it'sbecause we haven't taken that for granted.
And despite
not being the preferred vendor,we've continued to serve them well.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's important.
Is is I mean, it's all relationship basedand it is you know,
(20:37):
I always it's funny, you know, Craig,you and I have had this conversation
and Carter recently,you know, as we bring people,
you know, into a new marketor a new company or whatever the case is,
you know, sometimes you hear salesand they it's like, oh, no, I'm
not a sales person. I don't like sales.
Craig, I think you'll be the first oneto say that.
(20:57):
Yeah, that that's me.
You're not a salesperson. But you are.
You just, you know, you're not,
you're not a stereotypical,like, used car salesman.
And I think that'swhat people's mind comes to.
So for everybody,that's that's building their business.
Just keep that in mind.
You don't have to be your, your typical,you know, sales person to where, you know,
if you have a bad example in your headof that, just get that out of the way.
(21:20):
Take care of your clients.
Be consistent with everything.
I mean, that's really the key to sales.
And then it's just going to buildthat relationship.
And exactly what whatlike what you're saying, Craig, is.
And then you have people,even if we're not the preferred partner,
they're coming to usbecause they know the value.
They know their agents are utilizing usto some level.
And they know that, we'retrustworthy in the market
(21:41):
and they want us involvedin different things as well.
I was, training oneof our new photographers earlier this week
and sharing with them my approach of,we're not just photographers, right?
We're part of their marketing team.
And so we want to build aa good relationship with them.
And, and I told I told thisnew photographer said, just realize this
(22:02):
in in trying to develop the relationshipin the business with them,
you cannot sell a salesperson.
So yes, what we're doing is sales,but you can't sell a salesperson.
Now, you can consult with themand add value to their business
and show what you can do to add value,but you're never going to
(22:23):
the typical,
I don't want to say typical,because there are elements
of the sales processthat you still will utilize in developing
that relationship,but it's from a place of really
authentically caringabout that, that person as a person,
because that person is running a businessto to support themselves in their family.
(22:43):
There's an underlying reasonwhy they're in that business.
And looking at it from the humanpoint of view of
how can I actually really benefit youand not just myself, will go a long way
in building an authentic relationshipwith people in the business world,
right in, in the market.
So serving people well,being authentic about it and showing up
(23:04):
consistently acting with integrity,that just
real estate is all about
relationships. Authentic relationships.
And, you know, we've talked about thisbefore, but one of the best feelings
that I think we still get, you know,very frequently is when the phone rings
and you pick it upand it's an agent saying, you know, hey,
(23:26):
I have this listing.These are the details.
What do you think I should do? Yeah.
And and that just drives that point homeis, is, you know, you can be a salesperson
and still act with integrity and,and build those relationships.
And they can feel that too.
You know, our our agentsreaching out to us and, and knowing that
we know are in our side of the industryand how it benefits them.
(23:47):
And we're ethical.
We're not just looking to pile onas many services as we can to everybody.
Right?
They know that they can reach outand they have an open dialog to say,
hey, I trust you. What do you think?
And so we throw out our suggestionsand sometimes they agree,
sometimes I don't,
sometimes they tweak it a little bit,but just the fact that they open with that
means, I mean, when's the last timethat you went to a car dealership
(24:10):
and ask the car dealer,it's like I trust you.
What car do you think I should get?
You know, it's just not how it works.
In a lot of cases.
And there's some great carsalesmen out there.
I'm not trying to diminishthat whole industry.
but
There are typically, you know, when youwhen you are dealing with a salesperson,
people have their guard up.
They're a little bit more cautious, thingslike that.
(24:30):
You canyou can be a salesperson and eliminate
that and know that you're thereto serve them and help them.
And and then that's where everythingstarts coming back to you,
you know, in the futurebecause you have those relationships.
Yeah,
I think I'vetold this story before in the podcast,
but for those that maybe started
listening later,I had a client a couple of years ago that,
they were orderingdrone on every single listing.
(24:53):
And a lot of these listings were smallcity lots that didn't have much yard
at all.
A lot of times there was treescovering up the front of the house,
or much of the property,and that drone just wasn't
it wasn't adding any valueto their marketing effort.
And I, I, I got to the pointI probably should have said
something earlier, but it finally clickedand I, I approached the agent.
(25:14):
I said, quick question.
Okay, no offense.
If there's a reason, great.
But can I ask,is there any particular reason
you're ordering droneon every single listing that we're doing?
And the response was, oh, I justI thought it would add marketing value.
And, you know, it's it'sone more thing I can do.
The next agent isn't.
(25:34):
And I said, okay.
I said, totally get that,I understand that.
I said, but honestly, the drone itself,
in the photos that I'm getting or theif there was video isn't actually adding
a whole lot of visual impact to whatyou're trying to do for your client.
And I understand trying to buildyour brand.
I'm all in support of that, but I thinkyou could save some marketing dollars by
(25:56):
limiting that on certain propertiesthat really don't need it.
And let's find a creative way
to use those dollars somehow, elsethat will bring you some value.
And from that point on, she's like her.
I could see the kind of the slackjawed like,
did did youjust, like, not sell yourself or.
But it
built trust because, yeah,we're not just trying to add increase
(26:18):
the average order value,just increase the value.
We really want them to benefit.
So if you can prove that to, you know,say you're just starting your business
and you finally get one shoot, if you cansomehow establish that integrity
is being an honest, you know, hardworkingvendor for that person
and ultimately a marketing partner,they're going to sing your praises.
(26:42):
That whole word of mouth advertising,I still think is the best advertising
you can get. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, that's, that's as you buildthis engine, it starts to feed itself.
And so as you can get more people,
you're basically creatingan army of salespeople out there for you
because they're out theretalking to all their colleagues.
And, and sometimes it's even,you know, other brokerages,
(27:04):
you know, that they have colleaguesin that they're talking to.
And we've had a lot of doorsopen that way to where,
you know, somebody was like, hey,I know you shoot for so-and-so
over at, you know, Howard Hanna, you know,but what about us over here?
It's like, yeah, we can help you too.
And so it starts those conversations goingand and believe it or not,
I'm not saying it will.
It will bring it downto, you know, zero marketing dollars
(27:26):
and zero tasks that you have to dofor outreach and everything.
But you do start to see that scaleto where you have a lot more income in
that you can be responsiveto, versus having to spend more dollars,
more time doing the outreach,to bring clients to you.
They're actually seeking you outinstead, right?
That's a good pointto, as you do get established.
(27:48):
Yeah,you don't have to do as much of the grind.
But going back to that consistency,you don't want to start taking business
for granted either. Correct
Yeah.
That's a that's a big thingwith our business, you know, is that
we take care of our clients, you know,and it doesn't matter
if they've been with us a dayor they've been with us for ten years.
You know, we're we're taking care of them.
(28:09):
And that goes back to that consistencyaspect is, is, you know, one,
when you're trying to bring clientsand you have to be consistent,
you know, it's going to be several
phone calls, emails, meetings beforeyou potentially earn their business.
And they try you out and then that'syour time to shine that to really wow
them and win them overand bring them into your company.
And then once they're partof your clients, you know, once
(28:32):
they they're a part of your,
your network there, then you justyou still need to take care of them.
So typically what we dowith all of our clients is, is we
I always like to have that next actionstep with every client.
So, you know, if there's a clientthat I need to call today,
you know, I'll call them.
I'll check in with them,see how everything's going.
Maybe it's their say they're a new client.
(28:53):
We're going to check in
before their first appointmentjust to make sure
they have all the expectationsand know what's coming.
And then we're going to check inafter the appointment
and the media is delivered,to make sure everything looks good.
They're happywith how everything turned out.
And then I continually follow up to wherewe're pushing out the next outreach.
Maybe it's two weeks later,you know, saying, hey,
(29:13):
you know, and usually it's checkingthe listing to see is it pending?
Did it go under contract?
You know, what's the status of it?
So 2 to 2 to four weeks,we'll call them again
and just kind of check in on that statusand if it's pending or,
you know, about, to go under contract,then congratulate them,
because that's a huge thing on their sideis that they got that transaction done.
So congratulate them and then it doesn'tit doesn't end there.
(29:36):
You know, typically I'm following up.
It just we use a little bit of judgment
on our, on our structure and every thenbut there's always a next action step.
It doesn't matter if that's two days awayor if that's six months away.
We have something scheduledfor that client as the next follow up
to make surethat they don't fall off the radar,
to make sure that they have everythingthat they need, that
(29:57):
the relationship stays strongand that consistency is really
what keeps people with youafter you've won them as a new client.
Yeah, something as simple as wishing thema happy birthday.
So yeah, but something I like to do, I,
I try to find my clients on Facebook
and you might not be super activeon Facebook, but realtors are there.
(30:20):
Most of most Realtors are on Facebookand have a business page or something,
but if you can find them on Facebook,you know you're going to
you're going to get those notificationsabout their birthdays.
So I had one this morning, Steve,the longtime client again.
And it's is it's the realtors assistant.
She is a licensed realtor as well.
But she does a lot of the assistanttype of work.
(30:42):
It's her birthday.
So instead of just leavinga happy birthday message on her Facebook
page, I texted her and just, hey,happy birthday Suzanne.
You know, wishing you a great day.
Hope, pray, pray you have a wonderful timewith your family and just shot that off.
I've had their business forever.
We have a great relationship,but I don't take that for granted.
(31:04):
Some human sort of touch.
Just a hey, thinking about you today.
Have a great birthday.
Here's the response I get.
Thank you so much, Craig.
Heart emoji.
So thoughtful of you to reach out.
It's just something I do, you know.
Yes, it's thoughtful,but I care about this person
because they're a great human being,you know?
(31:24):
And yes, I'm thankful for their business.
Just little things like that.
Send a thank you card nowand then send them a Christmas card.
It's just all about those thoselittle touches and staying consistent.
But I think we've covered
the consistency thing pretty well.
So let me ask you this.
Let's let's rewind a little bit.
Going back to that, that personthat is just trying to get their business
(31:47):
off the ground and already,in a big market,
I don't know if there's a wayfor you to answer this or not, but
how long would you sayit takes to establish a base of of clients
in two different markets,in an unsaturated market,
if there's such thing anymoreor versus a saturated market,
can you give a ballparkon how long that effort might take to get
(32:10):
a small base of of clients?
Yeah, yeah, it's a tough question.
I don't
I don't know if I can give an exactballpark,
you know, saying like interim,like you should be here in six months.
You should be here.
I think what you should be looking at is,you know, in a, in a saturated market,
obviously there's tons of business
to go around,but there's also a ton of competitors.
So you're competingagainst a lot of existing relationships
(32:33):
and trying to get that that businessto come to you in an unsaturated market,
it's kind of the same is
there's there's less businessto go around, there's less competition.
Probably your biggest competitionthat we've seen in smaller
markets is just that, the old cell phone,you know, to where they're
taking their cell phone and going outand shoot in their own photos.
So then it's just two different areas,you know, in one in an unsaturated market,
(32:57):
you'retrying to get them to invest dollars
that they weren't previously investingand showing them the value of it.
And then on the flip side,you're getting them to,
to leave what they're comfortable with,with whoever they're currently working
with and come to you.
And so both of those situations,I think you kind of measure it
the same way, is I don't knowif there's a time frame to say, you know,
like I said, certain benchmarks,but because that's going to vary
(33:19):
from company to company and quite a bit,you know, somebody that's for example,
if you're willing and able to pour tengrand into a marketing campaign,
you're going to be a lot better,
you know, jumpstart compared to somebodythat has $100 advertising budget.
So there's this
there's just a difference therethat it's hard to really differentiate.
But I think if you're just going throughtrack the data, you know,
if you're starting today,
(33:40):
you know, once you get your first client,you know, that's you
that's kind of your first benchmark,you know,
and you're like, okay, I have my clientbuilt in, if you're not doing
this one thingthat we look at to kind of identify
success in a marketfor us is looking at market share.
So get the data from the board,you know, see what the what
the entire number of listings hitting thatmarket by month by year, all that data.
(34:04):
And then compare that to your shoot.
So if you if you're doing youknow, let's say you're doing 50 a month,
you know, and then there is a
500 listings hitting that marketevery month.
So you have about 10% of the marketshare at that point.
So I think that's your benchmark,regardless of time or anything else,
get as soon as you can possibly identifywhat your market share is.
(34:28):
Kind of flag thatand then your goal is to progress that.
You know, if you're at 1% today,how do you get to, 2% in a month?
How do you get to 6%, you know, insix months, whatever the case is.
So that I think isis probably the bigger key versus that,
the timeliness of itis just consistent check
ins and looking at the results.
(34:49):
And if you're not getting the resultsthat you're wanting,
then something's not working.
And then that's where you have to kind ofgo back to the drawing board,
look to see what efforts you're makingwith your outreach, marketing, whatever
the case is, and if something'snot progressing, then, you know, there's a
there's a broken link in that chainand go back and address that.
Do your next best draft, you know,
(35:10):
get a new approach out thereand then start the process again.
Yeah, yeah.
The, the listenerthat, was talking with me,
you know, they said I'm
just trying to get my name out thereand getting folks to call me back.
It's just been cricket crickets.
And my personality is suchthat I like a lot of face
to face, one on one type of things andand building relationship.
(35:33):
I think what I would do,
but this is my personality versus,say, Joy, who does a lot of events
and gets in frontof a lot of people at once,
say you have even just one client,
the the word of mouth advertising.
I, like I said before, I'm still convincedis the most powerful form
of advertising in itbecause it lends credibility.
(35:55):
So what I would do is sayyou only have five clients.
They like you.
Let's assume that they like you.They like the work that you're doing.
You're not doing a ton for them,but they're using you and they like you.
Ask them. Now,I know this is going to be hard
during busy seasonbecause everybody is busy.
Ask if you can take them out to coffeeor lunch or breakfast or something to get
(36:18):
some one on one time check in with them,see how their business is doing.
What are your goals?
You know, really add value,consult with them, brainstorm
some ideas with them,and before you leave, ask if there's
anybody in their office, their brokeragethat they would be willing to refer you to
offer them
(36:39):
some sort of creditor thank you for the referral.
If that person ends up booking with you,
it starts slow. It's a grind.
But if you can do that face to face askand you've established
a relationship with them,it will snowball.
if it grows exponentially.
But I think the important part,you know, I all credit to Eli Jones
(37:03):
with the Instagram methodthat has worked for a ton of people.
But I think there's something to be saidfor that face to face relationship
building and asking for the saleor asking for the referral.
Because, again,we're going back to the fact
that real estate is a relationshipbased business and the
the realtors, they're spending face toface time with their clients.
(37:25):
I reallybelieve you've got to do the same.
So if you're willing to do thatand then forego only really doing
digital advertising, get in front ofpeople and build the rapport
and ask for the referralsand those things will snowball.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
And kind of going back,you know, a couple of points
(37:46):
that you just made is,is that face to face interaction,
Instagrammethod, regardless of what you're doing,
there's a million different thingsyou can do.
Like just to kind ofgive you an example, I,
we do a lot of cold outreach to clientsto where
if we haven't worked with them before,we're just picking up the phone
and calling them, you know, and saying,introducing us who we are.
Typically we're just asking, you know,do you mind me asking
(38:08):
who you currently work withand kind of going from there?
You'd be amazed at how many doorsthat opens up by just asking
that simple questionand and kind of feeding off of that.
You can go out in person and greet peopleyou know, invite them to coffee,
like Craig said, or,
you know, if you can't pin them down,maybe just make pop ends to the office,
see if they're they're,you know, sensitive of their time to,
(38:29):
you know, don't expect an hour meetingwhen you stop into an office.
Just kind of it's more of a, hey,this is who I am, this is what I do.
And then you have the the groundsto kind of follow up after that.
But regardless of whatevermethod that you're doing,
just keep keep looking at itand seeing how can you improve it.
It's just amazingthe little things that you can adjust.
How did the example come up to meyesterday from one of our,
(38:52):
our salespeople.
And, and they were doing the cold outreachto clients
and at their at their follow up,they would ask, you know, do you mind me?
Do you mind if I send yousome information?
You know, just in caseanything changes in the future?
And they were getting a few no's on that.
And so just talking through it,I was like, don't ask.
You know, just, just
(39:12):
you had a good conversation with themand just say,
hey, just so you know, I'm going
to send you my informationjust in case anything changes.
I've never had somebody say,no, don't do that.
You know, they might delete the email, but
at least you have the opportunitythat to land in their inbox.
And and you know, we've seen firsthandwhere we get calls from emails
we sent a year ago, you know, to whereagain, top of mind, something changed.
(39:34):
And now theythey need somebody to fill this need.
And they're like,yeah, great big reach out a while back.
And they look in their emailand respond to that, that old contact.
So just, regardless of what you do,just monitor it and kind of
just analyze it, you know, see what'shappening and see what tweaks you can do.
Because the methods are all successful.
(39:54):
It's just a matter of, you know,what matches best to your personality.
What what tweakscan you make to, to further, you know,
get more success from those outreach,you know, activities and whatnot.
And, it works really well.
You can make some small changesthat has some big results over time.
ultimately just don't give up.
(40:15):
Yeah.
You know, we we know it can be a grind,especially now that we're,
you know, quite a few yearsinto real estate media really becoming
a thing, a real niche market thata lot of people are wanting to get into.
We know it can be challenging,but don't give up
if you really have a passion for it
and enjoy the work,enjoyed the relationship
building, I think you're going to finda lot of fulfillment.
(40:37):
You just got to give it the time,and the time to develop the relationships.
I know we're beating a dead horse, Todd.
Now, I've talked about relationshipsfor a couple years now, but that's what it
ultimately boils down to. And,
you know, I would even say even oncold calls, if you've got somebody else,
you know, see, you've got one clientin a certain brokerage, check with that
(41:00):
client, ask if they mind if you usetheir name is a referral yourself.
When you're making the cold callto somebody,
call in to that that person say, hey,I know we've we've never met.
Introduce yourself.
I'm currently, providing thethe real estate visual marketing for,
you know, your colleague so-and-soin your brokerage.
(41:22):
And, they said itit would be okay to to mention their name,
and, and just go from there.
Being able to
establish some credibility with peoplethat you're already shooting for, right?
It doesn't hurt.
Put it that way. And the other thing
that popped into my mind,Steve, is you were mentioning things,
(41:44):
especially with with the,
we call them,
objections, you know, in, in salesdevelopment, overcoming objections.
And the most common one probably is, well,I already have
a photographer for,
don't assume I would say don't assume
that they're entirely happywith that photographer,
(42:05):
because sometimes theremight be something going on that you just.
They've worked with them forever, butthey're not quite happy with something.
And that's your opportunity to say,
hey, you know,if there's ever a time you need a,
you know, a backupor they're not available,
I'm here for you.
I just thought I'd put myself out thereand say hello.
(42:28):
Yeah.
Asking those questions andand getting to the bottom of what
the actual issue is, or whatever
the actual objection is onthat side of things is, is critical.
So as you're talking to people,
if they say they're currently workingwith somebody, Craig, like you said,
they may be working with somebody,it doesn't mean they're happy.
It doesn't mean that they're there.
(42:48):
You know, everything'sgoing smoothly on that side.
So you can ask those questions.
You can ask, you know, do you mind measking how how's everything going?
You know, and and that's not,
you know, a crazy question to ask.
And a lot of timesby just asking that question,
they'll start kind of speaking out there.
Sometimes they'll hear,you know, it's like, hey, yeah,
it's actually my, my brother in lawthat's doing it for me, you know?
(43:10):
So they just kind of take thatinto consideration.
You want to
you want to respondbased on what they said, not
you have your cans, your responsesready to go.
So listen and then respondand not just respond to respond.
And so a lot of times, you know, if itif it is that it's like I
ran into that several times or it's like,well, my my daughter's doing my,
(43:30):
my photography, you know,
because she's going to school for itor something along those lines.
You can still ask those
follow up questions and just say, hey,do you know,
is she able to doall the different services for you?
You know, like aerialand things along those lines?
Because a lot of timesthey might be a photographer,
but they don't have the abilityto do other things.
And you can simply say, I get that, youknow, they have the photography covered.
(43:54):
I'd love to be another,
you know, arrow in your quiverfor whatever you need on that side.
So we can be available for, for droneor whatever the case would be.
And then even just askinghow it's going for,
you know, standard it's like, yeah, I'musing XYZ company.
Ask how it's going.
And, you know,if they're if they're completely happy.
One thing I think that we've learned
(44:14):
is if they're like, yeah, I'musing this company and everything's great,
I love them.I've been using them for years.
You're not typically goingto spend a ten minute conversation
and convince them, you know,and you don't want to convince them
that, that they're actually wrong onwhat their thought process is.
Right.
So, you know,spend your time wisely on that.
Don't don't ruin a futureor a potential future relationship
because you're wanting to close the saletoday.
(44:36):
Just have that conversationand say, oh, no, I completely get it.
You know,it sounds like you got everything
kind of working well for you,so I don't want to step on any toes.
I'd love to, you know, I'm
going to send you my info in caseanything ever changes in the future.
And I'll follow up every.
You know, is it okay if I follow up insix months and, just kind of check in and,
you know, again,don't expect to get instant gratification
(44:59):
from that call, but I can tell youover time, they do convert.
You know, things change.
That person moves out of the areathat person stopped doing,
you know, their business or whateverthe case is.
They're working full time elsewhere.
And I can't tell you how many timesI've called to follow up.
And it's like, actually, it's funnyyou call
because I'm actually looking forsomebody now, you know, so
that that's that top of mind iswhat will get you there.
(45:22):
And just building the relationship is,is kind of the step stool
to get to that point.
One thing I, I say to
Todd, I'm used to talking about one thingI say, Steve,
when when I do get that response of,hey, I've been, you know,
I've got a photographer, I've been workingwith them forever, and they're happy.
I respect loyalty,
(45:42):
I want my clients to be loyal to me,
you know, assumingthat I'm providing them good service.
So I respect that in a competitor
that is providing good servicefor their client.
And I let that that person thatI'm talking to know, hey, I respect that.
You know, I'm not.
Yeah.
I'm not going to push hard on thatif they're ever not available.
(46:03):
And you justyou need to shoot by by a certain date,
you know,hey, we'd love to be a secondary for you.
And, and it just cover, you know, coverfor your current photographer.
And then that builds respect in thembecause you're not impinging
on the relationshipthat they value already.
think of it from the other perspective.
(46:24):
You know, if you were an agent
and you got a call, somebodytrying to sell you on something
and you just told them how much youand you really like the,
the person or the companythat you're working with now.
And then their next response is, well,let me tell you why they're not good.
And I am like that.
That's something that
that you're just never goingto really recover from, because that it's
(46:44):
that first impression in their mindis going to be like,
wow, he was really pushy or like,I just they didn't and I'm happy.
And and now he'she didn't listen to me. Yeah.
Yeah yeah.
So I mean that isthat is critical on that side of things.
And that is something that I thinka lot of
when you're thinking that the traditionallike sales person, that's
where some of that falls off on successbecause they're not listening.
(47:07):
They're just ready to respond
with whatever they want to say next,not reacting to what they say.
I've got to tell you a story,and I wish I would have been in our sales
meeting Monday morning
because this was a perfect exampleof what you're just talking about.
And then if you've got anything to closewith, we'll wrap things up here.
But I have to hear the story, Steve.
So I went to the car wash
(47:29):
was I think it was last week,and there's this one car wash in town
that it's easy to get in and out of,and it is popular.
But I noticed they started doing somethingthat royally irritated me.
And it's happened, I think, twice in this.
Last week was the third timethat since I started noticing this,
(47:50):
that I pulled up and I'm like, God,please don't let this happen.
What they started doingwas they have automated kiosks, two
different lanes, one for members,
one for single car washesthat feed into going into the car wash.
You know, you select which wash you want.
It's all self-serve.
It's really nice. It'seasy, it's low pressure.
But obviously they're tryingto push these monthly memberships
(48:11):
with their advertisingand their signage. It's all very clear.
It's very well, you know, spelled out.
It's not hard to understand
what they started doinga couple of months ago
with sending one of their employees outto stand at the automated kiosk.
As you pull upand push the buttons for you
and and try and talk to youinto doing the monthly membership.
(48:36):
Now, I hate hard sales
and pushy sales, and it irritated me.
So this last week when I pulled up,there was nobody out there
or somebody had been out there,but they walked back in.
I thought,oh, awesome, I'm going to be able
to get through and squeeze through
without them bugging me to tryand push their monthly program and get.
Doesn't it happen that they
(48:56):
walk back outas I'm then pulling up, I'm like,
I'm going to tell them howI feel about this because I'm
really kind of insulted
that everything is laid out.
I understand the monthly program.
It's all there in front of me.
You have an automated systemfor me to serve myself.
Very easy to hit my button,put my credit card in and just go right.
(49:17):
I don't want a sales presentationas I'm going into a car wash.
So this guy comes outand he starts to starts to talk.
I'm like,
let me just say something.
I said, this is I'm not trying to be mean.
I'm not trying to be, you know, rudeor anything like that, I said,
but I'm in sales myself,and I'm just going to share
(49:38):
for some feedback for you,for your leadership, your management.
I find it really offputting for you guysto come out here and push the buttons.
For me, when it's an automated systemthat's very easy to operate
and try and talk meinto a monthly program.
It's a hard sales tactic.
It's a very pushy sales tactic,and it's really off putting to the point
(49:59):
where I'm probablynot going to come back to this car wash.
And of course, he he kind of froze and
I'm like,I'm not trying to be mean to you.
I'm because I understandhe's probably doing this
because his boss told himthis is what the program is
now, what they have to dois they're trying to get sales goals.
(50:19):
Right. I get this.
And so Steve, no joke.
His response, his response was,
well, we understand, but we're just tryingto really push the monthly program
and let people know howthey can save money.
But he literally use the wordspush this program.
Oh man. Yes.
(50:42):
My jaw dropped.
I'm like,
did you just hear what you saidand what I just said?
And he kind of looks at me blankly again.
I'm like,I don't want you pushing a program on me.
I go to the car washmaybe once every six weeks.
That program is not going to save meany money.
He wasn't actively listening.
I had a similar experienceI can throw out real quick recently.
(51:05):
Just as an example is, we have, you know,I mow our own lawn.
You know, we don't have a huge lawn,but we do have a company that comes out
and treats it like, I think, twice a year,you know, so nothing crazy.
So they contacted me.
We've been using them for years, for justfor the treatment on that side of things.
They contacted meand they're trying to get more business
(51:26):
for the actual mowing and landscapingand everything else.
And so I told him, I'm mow my own lawn.
And I mean, just verbatim,I can tell they're reading from a script.
And so after I say I mow my own mind,they're telling me how
they can save me money compared to whoI'm currently paying to have do it.
And so again, just going backto, you know, you're not listening at all.
(51:48):
You're just responding just to respond.
And, honestly, I it got to the point.
I told them no three timesand they're still telling me how,
you know, they can save me moneyor whatever the case is, to the point
where I canceled my other servicewith them.
Oh, I'm not,
you know, it's it's not something thatI want to go through and everything else.
So, I mean,we all have examples like that.
(52:10):
And so just think of that mindsetas you're talking to people,
you know, is, is is if you wereif roles were reversed,
you know, would youhow would you feel about how you're,
how you'reyou're taking this conversation.
Right.
And if you want to feel good about it,then you're probably doing
something wrong.
And I would adjust,you know, that approach.
But, you know, just put yourselfin the other person's shoes and,
(52:32):
and I think that goes a long way
in the mentalitybehind the sales side of things for sure.
Keys. Yeah.
That ended up costing them money.
Yeah.
It's not it'snot a ton of money on their side.
But you know, it's the opposite of whatthey were looking for.
And and so there's little fans can reallyand and you know I'm going to be out
in the community if somebody says,hey do you know somebody that can do this?
(52:54):
My answer is probably going to be like,well, I tell you who not to use.
Yeah.
So it actually can work againstyou even beyond that one customer.
So just be just be consciousof those conversations.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Steve, thank you so much for taking timethis week to to join us.
Just always enjoy having you onand sharing your knowledge,
with, with those that are watching,listening and trying to, to develop their,
(53:17):
their business development as well.
So thank you. Yes, thanks for having me.
I always enjoy kind of talking through thethe sales and marketing side.
So hopefully that helps everybody.
And if there's any any follow up questionsI'd love to know afterwards as well.
Yeah.
If somebody wanted to reach out to youor how can they get Ahold of you?
Probably the easiest way to reach meis just by email.
(53:39):
So it's just Steve@wowvideotours.com
and, I'd be glad toto help out where I can.
Yeah.
So feel free.
Or if you wantbecause we always repeat this email.
Just emailhello@spiro.media and just say
hey I'd love to get in contact with Steveand we can put you in contact
with Steve as well.
So yeah.
All right.
Well Steve thank you. Appreciate it.
(54:01):
Yes. Thank you.
Yeah. Enjoy your weekend. Yes.
yes, thank you. you too.
For those of you watching listening againthank you for making the time.
If you found value in this obviouslywe always appreciate a like,
you know, on, on the YouTube channel,
feel free to leave any comments, thingsthat you've learned that might help
somebody else in, in a different market.
(54:21):
We, we love the community buildingand just sharing of ideas
and things like that.
But yeah, we appreciate you guys.
Hopefully you found value inthat is if you're struggling
a little bit with getting your,your, business development effort going.
Lots of creative ideas out there.
But ultimately it all boils downto consistency and relationship. So.
All right, you guys have a great week.
(54:42):
Make sure you take some time,
especially as we head into the busy seasonhere, to, you know, just be thankful
for the blessings in your lifeand make sure you take a breath as well.
Have a great week.
Thank you for joining usfor the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
This is a production of Spiroand Wow video Tours.
(55:03):
You can find out more about Spiro
is Real Estate Media Business managementsoftware at our website.
Spiro.media.
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
so I think that's that'skind of unique in our industry,
is that you can partner withthose other players in the in the industry
that are not competing against you,and you guys can actually help each other.
Welcome to the Spiro Podcast.
Managing your real estate, photographyand videography business
with your hostsTodd Kivimaki and Craig Magrum.
(00:27):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
Spiro is a software platform.
If you're new to the podcast,it's a software
platform designed to really helpyou manage your day to day real estate
media business,and ultimately to help you scale as well.
We'd like to see you growand really do well in this industry.
(00:48):
I'm Craig Magrum,host of the podcast podcast Spit It Out.
I am a professional communicatorright off the podcast.
For those of you that have seen thisbefore, welcome back to another week.
Glad to have you
and really appreciate
the time that you take out eachand every week to watch and or listen,
during your work week.
We we're humbled by that.
And, just, grateful for the opportunityto speak into your life and your business.
(01:12):
All right, well, this week,a little bit different.
Todd is out on vacationfor some much needed R&R, and,
so I, I'm running this without him, but
no stranger to the to the podcast.
Our guest and, familiar face, Mr.
Steve Musser,who is the, director of sales
(01:34):
and marketing for Wow Video Tours,which is our real estate media business.
On the other side of things from Spiro.
So, Steve, welcome.
Glad to have you join. Join mehere this week.
Yeah, Craig.
-Thanks for having me back.- Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we're going to keep this fairly,fairly focused, Steve.
And we're just going to diveright into things.
(01:54):
Normally we we do some Spiro updates,but with Todd being out,
we're going to forego that this week and,just dive right into really,
ultimately whatwhat is a listener question that came in?
Nick and Nick and I have been talking backand forth quite a bit on Facebook,
and he's been picking my brainon some things.
And, he asks a really good questionthat we really haven't,
(02:15):
discussed lately, in depth.
And that's the, the, the subject of salesand business development.
And with Steve being our,our director of sales and marketing,
I thought this
this would be a great, week to have him onand share some of his insights and,
experience, particularly Steve,in the area of larger markets,
(02:36):
you know, large metro areas and somebodytrying to get into this industry.
So that's kind of what I'd liketo pick on your brain on this week.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'd love to dig into it.
Yeah.
So Nick was sharing with me, you know,he's he's trying to get legs under him
and start to build,you know, clientele, things like that.
And there's a lot to considerwhen you when you're
(02:59):
talking about the, the area of salesand business development.
So the first thing that came to mind isI was thinking about,
you know, the the podcastthis morning is where we were recording.
Steve, is there.
There'sso many different personalities and,
ways of doing sales,it seems like, or things that you hear.
(03:19):
But is there, is there really one, one
main way to develop sales or is theredifferent ways that you can do it?
I know that's a really broad question,
but just we'll start broadand kind of narrow down.
So I would say yes or no.
So there's a million different waysthat you can
structure your sales teamor if it's just you as a solopreneur,
(03:43):
there's a different ways you can approachthat sales side of things.
The one thing that that is, standardacross the board is just consistency.
So you have to have that consistencyin your approach, in your tracking
and your follow ups, everything else to,to make sure that the sales program
is working, whether it's you or a teamor however you have that structured.
(04:03):
But there are a million different waysto get that consistency done.
Right?
Yeah.
And we'll dive more into that.
So when you say consistency,what does that exactly look like.
How do you stay consistent in this field.
And it
what does that even look like or mean tosomebody.
This may be new to sales and businessdevelopment.
(04:26):
Yeah.
So when I say consistency
what I'm basically referring tois the fact that and Craig,
you know this more than anybodyby walking into an office
and, you know, maybe dropping off treatsor, you know, meeting some of the team
there at an office or doing a cold call
or whateverthe case might be on your actions.
Bottom line is typically one
(04:47):
time is not going to change the trajectoryof your business.
It's not going to win,possibly even a client out of that.
Sometimes it takes, you know, severalvisits, several calls, several follow ups.
It I mean, we've had a lotof relationships that we built
that took years to,
to kind of get across that finish lineand, and have a good relationship
that we're working togetherto help their business.
(05:08):
So that is, the key and the consistencyis just don't don't get so overwhelmed,
you know, don't expect instant resultson any of your actions.
You know, it's it's
definitely a long game,but everything that you're doing today
is preparing that that groundworkor that foundation for your sales program
moving forward.
And if you stay consistent in it,you you will see results.
(05:29):
So you just have to kind ofkeep plugging away
and making sure that your time spent,you know, the best way possible.
But you will get those results over time.
Yeah, I think that
that can be the frustrating part iswhen you're trying to get an effort going,
especially in a larger market,you know, like like a Dallas or,
you know, one of our markets,Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati,
if you're new and there's already is aespecially if there's established,
(05:55):
competition,you know, other people in that same space,
it's not going to be easybecause a lot of those realtors
already have established relationshipswith other photographers.
So kind of the frustrationfor the new person getting into it
is if if they're not getting tractionright away, how long can they survive
(06:15):
trying to get this businessgoing with not a lot of results.
So consistent consistency,definitely important.
But do you have any advice maybe on,you know, how somebody can hang in there
when when it does take some timeto, to get an effort going.
Yeah, yeah. So I, I understand that too.
I mean as you're growing your business,you need to see results in order to,
(06:39):
to keep revenue coming into your companyand, and then keep that consistency.
We going to continue to see resultslong term.
So there are a few thingsthat I always say that to lead off
with that are kind of like the basics.
And from that you can kind of determinewhat the low hanging fruit
is in that market.
And so the first thing that I always say,regardless of the size of your market,
(06:59):
is get the data, you know, if you can getany kind of data on the market,
typically, you know,
if you have any connectionsin the community with, you know, realtors
or the board or whatever the case is,try to get a agent ranking report,
and that will tell you a little bitabout what is happening out in the market.
You know, whowho are the people that are doing
(07:20):
the most business out therein that specific market?
You know, are they doing mainly listings
or are they doing buyertransactions, things along those lines?
Because I think that is as aas a small business
and trying to get resultsas quickly as possible.
That's something that you wantto turn your attention to, because
without that data, you know, you'reyou don't know
(07:41):
if you're spending your time in a waythat is the most efficient.
So, so having that, that data andbeing able to go down the list and say,
you know, hey,I've been calling this person
for six monthsand I haven't been able to connect yet.
And then you find out that they, they dotwo listings a year, maybe not even that.
Then, you know, that'sprobably not your target client.
You know, you're looking for somebodywith a little bit more volume.
(08:02):
So I think if you start with the data andand kind of get it, get a
good understanding of where the market
is, you know, who, who are thethe people that are doing
and not necessarilyeven the most transactions,
but doing enough transactionsthat you can, you know,
kind of partner up with them and,and help their business grow.
And then they're going to help youin the long run as well.
So start there,try to get as much that as possible.
(08:24):
And I think that gives youa good framework on
making sure that your time spent well onwhatever task that you're completing.
So let's play off that a little bit okay.
So say we we identify, the topfive agents in the market.
And we really want to try and establishsome sort of relationship with them
and maybe have them try us.
We offer thema free shoot or something like that.
(08:46):
How much does personality go
into, trying to establishthat initial relationship with somebody?
You know, Steve, you've done sales.
I've done sales.
We've got Christhat takes care of our Columbus market.
Joy, there in Charlotteand then Pam for for Dayton,
in Cincinnati.
And then we got Carterwith, with Fort Wayne.
(09:07):
You've got ayou've got a mix of personalities here
that you're leadingas our director of marketing and sales.
How much does personalitygo into trying to,
make that first contact witha, you know, a top agent in a market?
Yeah, yeah.
And honestly, it'snot even the top agents.
It's all agents, you know, depending on
(09:28):
when you're making those,those outreaches.
But, yeah.
Personality plays a big part of itbecause everybody has their strengths.
Everybody has their comfort zoneon what they're most comfortable with
and what they excel with.
And our our salesteam is a good example of that.
You know, Joy is is the a vet,you know, master,
as far as
she’s queen,she is queen of, event planning.
(09:49):
Absolutely.
She's out there holding events, you know,at least one a week, if not multiple.
And she's coordinating and and so,you know, she plays her
strengths in that way to where she,she has those connections.
She has other partners in thein the market
that she connects with and kind of helpsput everything together.
Let me key off up on that real quick.
So yeah, you justyou just said other partners.
(10:10):
What what does that look like.
So say you know John in
in Gainesville, Florida.
I'm just making something up.
He's started to get to knowsome of the other industry players.
What what does that look like?
Inviting other partnersinto an event that you might.
Yeah. Host for for realtors.
Yeah.
(10:30):
Our our industry is kind of,kind of unique in that way to,
to to where there is, you know, our coreclient is the realtor and brokerage.
And so around that realtor and brokerage,there are,
you know, dozens of other partnersthat that they're working with day
in, day out on all their transactions.
And it gives us a unique opportunityto partner up with them.
(10:51):
So that could be insurance agents,that could be mortgage brokers,
that could be title departments.
You know anything along those lines?
We're targeting the same end user.
We're targeting that that realtorand our goals are the same.
We want to partner with them and offerwhat our services to help them
grow their business.
And we grow togetheron that side of things.
(11:12):
And so I think that's that'skind of unique in our industry,
is that you can partner withthose other players in the in the industry
that are not competing against you,and you guys can actually help each other.
And we do that a lot.
Joy's a great example of that.
You know, she partners with thosethose mortgage brokers and, and title,
you know, title agenciesand everything else to where they can pull
(11:33):
their resources and their effortsand time together to, host an event
or to maybe, you know, have a promotionthat goes out to agents.
And then that way, you'reyou're getting more bang
for your buck on that side of things,both on the time invested,
because you should be able
to split some of that timeto coordinate some of those efforts.
And then also resources,
(11:54):
you know, enjoys the exampleshe holds, you know, these events.
And a lot of times I'll provide lunch orsnacks or, you know, different, different,
you know,
different things available to the agentsthat are stopping in for that class.
Another one that she doesa lot is is information.
So she has any experts in the real estateindustry or social media
or anything along those lines.
(12:15):
So she'll reach outand try to partner with them.
And everybody can promotetheir own business to the same agents.
And it's a lot more cost effective andtime effective on your on your calendar.
You know, as I think about this.
So in my market,I don't really have time to do events
or plan events or those sorts of things,but I can see the value.
(12:35):
And I've never thought about thisby by partnering with other established,
industry peoples,you know, say a mortgage broker.
I, a title person or an inspector
that already is establishedif they agree to do an event with you,
that's kind of lending credibility to youas, as a new person
(12:56):
in the media field for real estate.
And yeah, what a what a great.
And it does go both ways. Do so.
So they're they're kind of
bringing their audience to youand you're bringing your audience to them.
And it's a win win across the board.
You know there's no competitionthere. It's just collaboration.
And you can get out there andand really have some fun with it.
(13:18):
You know, we've done some.
It doesn't even have to be an event.
So I know a lot of timeswe say event and people kind of shy away
because it seems like such a big dealto kind of plan an event.
You can get there eventually.
Enjoy is a perfect example of that,is that she has it so systemized
that it's nothing to herto hurry up and plan an event,
but it doesn'tall have to tie back to that.
(13:40):
I mean, it could be even a webinar.
It could be,
you know, partnering to sponsor a golftournament or something along those lines.
So you can pull your resources togetherto, to be able to do that.
And then you're bothbringing your audiences as well,
and then hopefully hittingeven a larger audience.
And everybody is better because of it.
(14:02):
So as I'm thinking through eventsand, and,
you know, these other things that you justmentioned, golf tournaments or classes
or webinars, I'm thinking about boardevents that you could potentially sponsor.
So your local realtor board, I would say
if you're somebody new, becomean affiliate member of your local board
and get involved with sponsoringthe classes that they offer,
(14:23):
which most of the time is just buyingsome breakfast items
or something for the class or some snacksthey give you five minutes.
At the beginning of the class,you introduce yourself.
Steve, the thing that that we talk abouta lot in, in helping,
in consulting with our clients istheir face, is their brand.
Obviously,we want realtors to be on video.
Well, wouldn't it be the same for us?
(14:45):
- Our face is our brand. - Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So that that kind of ties into a big a bigterm that you hear us say a lot within.
Wow is top of mind.
So top of mind marketing.
And this this really all ties back to it.
So the goal with everything that you doon the sales side is to be
the first person they think ofwhen they have a need for your service.
(15:06):
So you know that that like I said,that can be quick.
It can be a long game.
It just kind of depends on the situation,the agent, everything else.
But whatever you can do to stayin front of that audience and the market,
you know, whether it is the sport,events, things along those lines.
And the cool thing about it is as we buildthose relationships, you know,
a couple months ago we got a callfrom the local board and they just
(15:29):
let us know that, they had a lot of agentsasking questions about AI.
And they said, would you like to come inand talk about it?
And that's not a presentationI've done before, but we we utilize
AI, you know, we're we're a tech company.
We're very familiar with it.
And so put together a presentation
through out thereand kind of address their basic,
you know, questions on AI and how touse it in real estate and everything else.
(15:52):
And I didn't bring lunch.I didn't do anything.
They just wanted the knowledge.
And that is just a great feelingwhen you have that trust
and and that expert status in the marketto where
the board's actually reaching out to yousaying, hey, we need this,
we think you're the right person to do it.
Can you come in and do this?
And then you get to go in front of 30,40 people and talk about it.
(16:13):
And even though you're not talkingabout your business and your brand, you're
you're actually building thatthat expert credibility on the back end
because they know who you are now.
They know thatyou know what you're talking about,
and they appreciate thatthe knowledge on that side of events.
Yeah.
And that all ties back into consistency.
So to get that kind of invitation,
(16:34):
obviouslyyou have to be known in the market.
And as somebody that's new you're like,well, I'm not known.
But that's where consistency
drives into all of this.
Become an affiliate member,show up at events and I
you get initially Toddand I've talked about this in the past,
initially when you're getting yourbusiness off the ground, there is a grind.
(16:55):
There's just always a grind portionof developing business right?
And it can be grueling.
But if you stick it outand stay consistent and stay visible and,
you know, be in front of of other people,they will get to know you.
And people buy from peoplethey know, like, and trust.
We we've heard that phrasea bazillion times, but trust has to come
(17:17):
be because you've had the consistencyand the track record of being visible
and proving good resultswith, you know, with a few shoots
that you do get initially. Yeah. So
go ahead, Steve.
Look, I was just I was going to sayas you're starting your business.
So one thing that that you just wantto keep in mind or as you're, you're,
you know, maybe a solopreneur
(17:38):
and starting to branch out and buildinga team or whatever the case is,
when you're when you're at that level,you know, just kind of,
get over the fear of it,
but understandthat you're going to have to it's
going to be time, money, or both in orderto, to bring in new clients.
And so the nice thing with that isyou can do you can throw money at it,
(18:00):
you know, you could do marketing,you could do social media advertising,
you can do,
you know, all various sponsorships, thingsalong those lines and spend the money.
So to kind of build that, that,
that brand behind your businessand be the one that they know
is an expert in the industryso you can do money or time.
You know, some like what
we were just talking about going outand and dropping off at offices
(18:23):
or doing presentations, thingsalong those lines, you know, and sometimes
it's a combination of time and moneythat that would be required for that.
But the nice thing is, believe it or not,you know, as you grow
and as you kind of develop these systemsand, and get everything in place,
than that time and money aspectalmost starts to fade away a little bit.
And I'm not saying it disappears,but with what we're talking about
(18:46):
is we have people now reaching out to us,you know, and saying,
hey, we want to do thisand we want you to be part of it.
And now all of a sudden,you look at that time and money
aspect is a lot lower than it usedto be in order to bring in new clients.
So that consistency leads up to that.
So that's the way to get to that,that level.
Right.
A perfect example of that, Steve,just just last night, last evening,
(19:09):
I got a text from,
from one of our longtime clientsthat I had initially started working with.
Years ago.
And she's like, hey,
would you would you, donate something
to the fundraising auction againthis year for this event that
I've been a part of since 2017?
And whether it was my own businessor then for Wow and,
(19:33):
when when you get involved in somethingon a consistent basis,
people see you as a partnerand they see that you're interested
in helping the industry,especially in your local market.
And just continuing to be at those events,continuing to support
those things, be a part of fundraisingauctions, things like that.
And they will introduce youto other people when
(19:54):
when you're at a, you know,a fundraising auction or something
that a particular brokerage is putting on,even if you're not the preferred vendor.
So this brokerage, Steve,you might even know who I'm talking about.
Every every Cinco deMayo, every year up here.
We are not the preferredvendor for this brokerage,
(20:14):
but we have been
a yearly sponsor of it,and we have a good amount
of their business, even thoughwe're not their their preferred vendor.
But it's big, but it'sbecause we haven't taken that for granted.
And despite
not being the preferred vendor,we've continued to serve them well.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's important.
Is is I mean, it's all relationship basedand it is you know,
(20:37):
I always it's funny, you know, Craig,you and I have had this conversation
and Carter recently,you know, as we bring people,
you know, into a new marketor a new company or whatever the case is,
you know, sometimes you hear salesand they it's like, oh, no, I'm
not a sales person. I don't like sales.
Craig, I think you'll be the first oneto say that.
(20:57):
Yeah, that that's me.
You're not a salesperson. But you are.
You just, you know, you're not,
you're not a stereotypical,like, used car salesman.
And I think that'swhat people's mind comes to.
So for everybody,that's that's building their business.
Just keep that in mind.
You don't have to be your, your typical,you know, sales person to where, you know,
if you have a bad example in your headof that, just get that out of the way.
(21:20):
Take care of your clients.
Be consistent with everything.
I mean, that's really the key to sales.
And then it's just going to buildthat relationship.
And exactly what whatlike what you're saying, Craig, is.
And then you have people,even if we're not the preferred partner,
they're coming to usbecause they know the value.
They know their agents are utilizing usto some level.
And they know that, we'retrustworthy in the market
(21:41):
and they want us involvedin different things as well.
I was, training oneof our new photographers earlier this week
and sharing with them my approach of,we're not just photographers, right?
We're part of their marketing team.
And so we want to build aa good relationship with them.
And, and I told I told thisnew photographer said, just realize this
(22:02):
in in trying to develop the relationshipin the business with them,
you cannot sell a salesperson.
So yes, what we're doing is sales,but you can't sell a salesperson.
Now, you can consult with themand add value to their business
and show what you can do to add value,but you're never going to
(22:23):
the typical,
I don't want to say typical,because there are elements
of the sales processthat you still will utilize in developing
that relationship,but it's from a place of really
authentically caringabout that, that person as a person,
because that person is running a businessto to support themselves in their family.
(22:43):
There's an underlying reasonwhy they're in that business.
And looking at it from the humanpoint of view of
how can I actually really benefit youand not just myself, will go a long way
in building an authentic relationshipwith people in the business world,
right in, in the market.
So serving people well,being authentic about it and showing up
(23:04):
consistently acting with integrity,that just
real estate is all about
relationships. Authentic relationships.
And, you know, we've talked about thisbefore, but one of the best feelings
that I think we still get, you know,very frequently is when the phone rings
and you pick it upand it's an agent saying, you know, hey,
(23:26):
I have this listing.These are the details.
What do you think I should do? Yeah.
And and that just drives that point homeis, is, you know, you can be a salesperson
and still act with integrity and,and build those relationships.
And they can feel that too.
You know, our our agentsreaching out to us and, and knowing that
we know are in our side of the industryand how it benefits them.
(23:47):
And we're ethical.
We're not just looking to pile onas many services as we can to everybody.
Right?
They know that they can reach outand they have an open dialog to say,
hey, I trust you. What do you think?
And so we throw out our suggestionsand sometimes they agree,
sometimes I don't,
sometimes they tweak it a little bit,but just the fact that they open with that
means, I mean, when's the last timethat you went to a car dealership
(24:10):
and ask the car dealer,it's like I trust you.
What car do you think I should get?
You know, it's just not how it works.
In a lot of cases.
And there's some great carsalesmen out there.
I'm not trying to diminishthat whole industry.
but
There are typically, you know, when youwhen you are dealing with a salesperson,
people have their guard up.
They're a little bit more cautious, thingslike that.
(24:30):
You canyou can be a salesperson and eliminate
that and know that you're thereto serve them and help them.
And and then that's where everythingstarts coming back to you,
you know, in the futurebecause you have those relationships.
Yeah,
I think I'vetold this story before in the podcast,
but for those that maybe started
listening later,I had a client a couple of years ago that,
they were orderingdrone on every single listing.
(24:53):
And a lot of these listings were smallcity lots that didn't have much yard
at all.
A lot of times there was treescovering up the front of the house,
or much of the property,and that drone just wasn't
it wasn't adding any valueto their marketing effort.
And I, I, I got to the pointI probably should have said
something earlier, but it finally clickedand I, I approached the agent.
(25:14):
I said, quick question.
Okay, no offense.
If there's a reason, great.
But can I ask,is there any particular reason
you're ordering droneon every single listing that we're doing?
And the response was, oh, I justI thought it would add marketing value.
And, you know, it's it'sone more thing I can do.
The next agent isn't.
(25:34):
And I said, okay.
I said, totally get that,I understand that.
I said, but honestly, the drone itself,
in the photos that I'm getting or theif there was video isn't actually adding
a whole lot of visual impact to whatyou're trying to do for your client.
And I understand trying to buildyour brand.
I'm all in support of that, but I thinkyou could save some marketing dollars by
(25:56):
limiting that on certain propertiesthat really don't need it.
And let's find a creative way
to use those dollars somehow, elsethat will bring you some value.
And from that point on, she's like her.
I could see the kind of the slackjawed like,
did did youjust, like, not sell yourself or.
But it
built trust because, yeah,we're not just trying to add increase
(26:18):
the average order value,just increase the value.
We really want them to benefit.
So if you can prove that to, you know,say you're just starting your business
and you finally get one shoot, if you cansomehow establish that integrity
is being an honest, you know, hardworkingvendor for that person
and ultimately a marketing partner,they're going to sing your praises.
(26:42):
That whole word of mouth advertising,I still think is the best advertising
you can get. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, that's, that's as you buildthis engine, it starts to feed itself.
And so as you can get more people,
you're basically creatingan army of salespeople out there for you
because they're out theretalking to all their colleagues.
And, and sometimes it's even,you know, other brokerages,
(27:04):
you know, that they have colleaguesin that they're talking to.
And we've had a lot of doorsopen that way to where,
you know, somebody was like, hey,I know you shoot for so-and-so
over at, you know, Howard Hanna, you know,but what about us over here?
It's like, yeah, we can help you too.
And so it starts those conversations goingand and believe it or not,
I'm not saying it will.
It will bring it downto, you know, zero marketing dollars
(27:26):
and zero tasks that you have to dofor outreach and everything.
But you do start to see that scaleto where you have a lot more income in
that you can be responsiveto, versus having to spend more dollars,
more time doing the outreach,to bring clients to you.
They're actually seeking you outinstead, right?
That's a good pointto, as you do get established.
(27:48):
Yeah,you don't have to do as much of the grind.
But going back to that consistency,you don't want to start taking business
for granted either. Correct
Yeah.
That's a that's a big thingwith our business, you know, is that
we take care of our clients, you know,and it doesn't matter
if they've been with us a dayor they've been with us for ten years.
You know, we're we're taking care of them.
(28:09):
And that goes back to that consistencyaspect is, is, you know, one,
when you're trying to bring clientsand you have to be consistent,
you know, it's going to be several
phone calls, emails, meetings beforeyou potentially earn their business.
And they try you out and then that'syour time to shine that to really wow
them and win them overand bring them into your company.
And then once they're partof your clients, you know, once
(28:32):
they they're a part of your,
your network there, then you justyou still need to take care of them.
So typically what we dowith all of our clients is, is we
I always like to have that next actionstep with every client.
So, you know, if there's a clientthat I need to call today,
you know, I'll call them.
I'll check in with them,see how everything's going.
Maybe it's their say they're a new client.
(28:53):
We're going to check in
before their first appointmentjust to make sure
they have all the expectationsand know what's coming.
And then we're going to check inafter the appointment
and the media is delivered,to make sure everything looks good.
They're happywith how everything turned out.
And then I continually follow up to wherewe're pushing out the next outreach.
Maybe it's two weeks later,you know, saying, hey,
(29:13):
you know, and usually it's checkingthe listing to see is it pending?
Did it go under contract?
You know, what's the status of it?
So 2 to 2 to four weeks,we'll call them again
and just kind of check in on that statusand if it's pending or,
you know, about, to go under contract,then congratulate them,
because that's a huge thing on their sideis that they got that transaction done.
So congratulate them and then it doesn'tit doesn't end there.
(29:36):
You know, typically I'm following up.
It just we use a little bit of judgment
on our, on our structure and every thenbut there's always a next action step.
It doesn't matter if that's two days awayor if that's six months away.
We have something scheduledfor that client as the next follow up
to make surethat they don't fall off the radar,
to make sure that they have everythingthat they need, that
(29:57):
the relationship stays strongand that consistency is really
what keeps people with youafter you've won them as a new client.
Yeah, something as simple as wishing thema happy birthday.
So yeah, but something I like to do, I,
I try to find my clients on Facebook
and you might not be super activeon Facebook, but realtors are there.
(30:20):
Most of most Realtors are on Facebookand have a business page or something,
but if you can find them on Facebook,you know you're going to
you're going to get those notificationsabout their birthdays.
So I had one this morning, Steve,the longtime client again.
And it's is it's the realtors assistant.
She is a licensed realtor as well.
But she does a lot of the assistanttype of work.
(30:42):
It's her birthday.
So instead of just leavinga happy birthday message on her Facebook
page, I texted her and just, hey,happy birthday Suzanne.
You know, wishing you a great day.
Hope, pray, pray you have a wonderful timewith your family and just shot that off.
I've had their business forever.
We have a great relationship,but I don't take that for granted.
(31:04):
Some human sort of touch.
Just a hey, thinking about you today.
Have a great birthday.
Here's the response I get.
Thank you so much, Craig.
Heart emoji.
So thoughtful of you to reach out.
It's just something I do, you know.
Yes, it's thoughtful,but I care about this person
because they're a great human being,you know?
(31:24):
And yes, I'm thankful for their business.
Just little things like that.
Send a thank you card nowand then send them a Christmas card.
It's just all about those thoselittle touches and staying consistent.
But I think we've covered
the consistency thing pretty well.
So let me ask you this.
Let's let's rewind a little bit.
Going back to that, that personthat is just trying to get their business
(31:47):
off the ground and already,in a big market,
I don't know if there's a wayfor you to answer this or not, but
how long would you sayit takes to establish a base of of clients
in two different markets,in an unsaturated market,
if there's such thing anymoreor versus a saturated market,
can you give a ballparkon how long that effort might take to get
(32:10):
a small base of of clients?
Yeah, yeah, it's a tough question.
I don't
I don't know if I can give an exactballpark,
you know, saying like interim,like you should be here in six months.
You should be here.
I think what you should be looking at is,you know, in a, in a saturated market,
obviously there's tons of business
to go around,but there's also a ton of competitors.
So you're competingagainst a lot of existing relationships
(32:33):
and trying to get that that businessto come to you in an unsaturated market,
it's kind of the same is
there's there's less businessto go around, there's less competition.
Probably your biggest competitionthat we've seen in smaller
markets is just that, the old cell phone,you know, to where they're
taking their cell phone and going outand shoot in their own photos.
So then it's just two different areas,you know, in one in an unsaturated market,
(32:57):
you'retrying to get them to invest dollars
that they weren't previously investingand showing them the value of it.
And then on the flip side,you're getting them to,
to leave what they're comfortable with,with whoever they're currently working
with and come to you.
And so both of those situations,I think you kind of measure it
the same way, is I don't knowif there's a time frame to say, you know,
like I said, certain benchmarks,but because that's going to vary
(33:19):
from company to company and quite a bit,you know, somebody that's for example,
if you're willing and able to pour tengrand into a marketing campaign,
you're going to be a lot better,
you know, jumpstart compared to somebodythat has $100 advertising budget.
So there's this
there's just a difference therethat it's hard to really differentiate.
But I think if you're just going throughtrack the data, you know,
if you're starting today,
(33:40):
you know, once you get your first client,you know, that's you
that's kind of your first benchmark,you know,
and you're like, okay, I have my clientbuilt in, if you're not doing
this one thingthat we look at to kind of identify
success in a marketfor us is looking at market share.
So get the data from the board,you know, see what the what
the entire number of listings hitting thatmarket by month by year, all that data.
(34:04):
And then compare that to your shoot.
So if you if you're doing youknow, let's say you're doing 50 a month,
you know, and then there is a
500 listings hitting that marketevery month.
So you have about 10% of the marketshare at that point.
So I think that's your benchmark,regardless of time or anything else,
get as soon as you can possibly identifywhat your market share is.
(34:28):
Kind of flag thatand then your goal is to progress that.
You know, if you're at 1% today,how do you get to, 2% in a month?
How do you get to 6%, you know, insix months, whatever the case is.
So that I think isis probably the bigger key versus that,
the timeliness of itis just consistent check
ins and looking at the results.
(34:49):
And if you're not getting the resultsthat you're wanting,
then something's not working.
And then that's where you have to kind ofgo back to the drawing board,
look to see what efforts you're makingwith your outreach, marketing, whatever
the case is, and if something'snot progressing, then, you know, there's a
there's a broken link in that chainand go back and address that.
Do your next best draft, you know,
(35:10):
get a new approach out thereand then start the process again.
Yeah, yeah.
The, the listenerthat, was talking with me,
you know, they said I'm
just trying to get my name out thereand getting folks to call me back.
It's just been cricket crickets.
And my personality is suchthat I like a lot of face
to face, one on one type of things andand building relationship.
(35:33):
I think what I would do,
but this is my personality versus,say, Joy, who does a lot of events
and gets in frontof a lot of people at once,
say you have even just one client,
the the word of mouth advertising.
I, like I said before, I'm still convincedis the most powerful form
of advertising in itbecause it lends credibility.
(35:55):
So what I would do is sayyou only have five clients.
They like you.
Let's assume that they like you.They like the work that you're doing.
You're not doing a ton for them,but they're using you and they like you.
Ask them. Now,I know this is going to be hard
during busy seasonbecause everybody is busy.
Ask if you can take them out to coffeeor lunch or breakfast or something to get
(36:18):
some one on one time check in with them,see how their business is doing.
What are your goals?
You know, really add value,consult with them, brainstorm
some ideas with them,and before you leave, ask if there's
anybody in their office, their brokeragethat they would be willing to refer you to
offer them
(36:39):
some sort of creditor thank you for the referral.
If that person ends up booking with you,
it starts slow. It's a grind.
But if you can do that face to face askand you've established
a relationship with them,it will snowball.
if it grows exponentially.
But I think the important part,you know, I all credit to Eli Jones
(37:03):
with the Instagram methodthat has worked for a ton of people.
But I think there's something to be saidfor that face to face relationship
building and asking for the saleor asking for the referral.
Because, again,we're going back to the fact
that real estate is a relationshipbased business and the
the realtors, they're spending face toface time with their clients.
(37:25):
I reallybelieve you've got to do the same.
So if you're willing to do thatand then forego only really doing
digital advertising, get in front ofpeople and build the rapport
and ask for the referralsand those things will snowball.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
And kind of going back,you know, a couple of points
(37:46):
that you just made is,is that face to face interaction,
Instagrammethod, regardless of what you're doing,
there's a million different thingsyou can do.
Like just to kind ofgive you an example, I,
we do a lot of cold outreach to clientsto where
if we haven't worked with them before,we're just picking up the phone
and calling them, you know, and saying,introducing us who we are.
Typically we're just asking, you know,do you mind me asking
(38:08):
who you currently work withand kind of going from there?
You'd be amazed at how many doorsthat opens up by just asking
that simple questionand and kind of feeding off of that.
You can go out in person and greet peopleyou know, invite them to coffee,
like Craig said, or,
you know, if you can't pin them down,maybe just make pop ends to the office,
see if they're they're,you know, sensitive of their time to,
(38:29):
you know, don't expect an hour meetingwhen you stop into an office.
Just kind of it's more of a, hey,this is who I am, this is what I do.
And then you have the the groundsto kind of follow up after that.
But regardless of whatevermethod that you're doing,
just keep keep looking at itand seeing how can you improve it.
It's just amazingthe little things that you can adjust.
How did the example come up to meyesterday from one of our,
(38:52):
our salespeople.
And, and they were doing the cold outreachto clients
and at their at their follow up,they would ask, you know, do you mind me?
Do you mind if I send yousome information?
You know, just in caseanything changes in the future?
And they were getting a few no's on that.
And so just talking through it,I was like, don't ask.
You know, just, just
(39:12):
you had a good conversation with themand just say,
hey, just so you know, I'm going
to send you my informationjust in case anything changes.
I've never had somebody say,no, don't do that.
You know, they might delete the email, but
at least you have the opportunitythat to land in their inbox.
And and you know, we've seen firsthandwhere we get calls from emails
we sent a year ago, you know, to whereagain, top of mind, something changed.
(39:34):
And now theythey need somebody to fill this need.
And they're like,yeah, great big reach out a while back.
And they look in their emailand respond to that, that old contact.
So just, regardless of what you do,just monitor it and kind of
just analyze it, you know, see what'shappening and see what tweaks you can do.
Because the methods are all successful.
(39:54):
It's just a matter of, you know,what matches best to your personality.
What what tweakscan you make to, to further, you know,
get more success from those outreach,you know, activities and whatnot.
And, it works really well.
You can make some small changesthat has some big results over time.
ultimately just don't give up.
(40:15):
Yeah.
You know, we we know it can be a grind,especially now that we're,
you know, quite a few yearsinto real estate media really becoming
a thing, a real niche market thata lot of people are wanting to get into.
We know it can be challenging,but don't give up
if you really have a passion for it
and enjoy the work,enjoyed the relationship
building, I think you're going to finda lot of fulfillment.
(40:37):
You just got to give it the time,and the time to develop the relationships.
I know we're beating a dead horse, Todd.
Now, I've talked about relationshipsfor a couple years now, but that's what it
ultimately boils down to. And,
you know, I would even say even oncold calls, if you've got somebody else,
you know, see, you've got one clientin a certain brokerage, check with that
(41:00):
client, ask if they mind if you usetheir name is a referral yourself.
When you're making the cold callto somebody,
call in to that that person say, hey,I know we've we've never met.
Introduce yourself.
I'm currently, providing thethe real estate visual marketing for,
you know, your colleague so-and-soin your brokerage.
(41:22):
And, they said itit would be okay to to mention their name,
and, and just go from there.
Being able to
establish some credibility with peoplethat you're already shooting for, right?
It doesn't hurt.
Put it that way. And the other thing
that popped into my mind,Steve, is you were mentioning things,
(41:44):
especially with with the,
we call them,
objections, you know, in, in salesdevelopment, overcoming objections.
And the most common one probably is, well,I already have
a photographer for,
don't assume I would say don't assume
that they're entirely happywith that photographer,
(42:05):
because sometimes theremight be something going on that you just.
They've worked with them forever, butthey're not quite happy with something.
And that's your opportunity to say,
hey, you know,if there's ever a time you need a,
you know, a backupor they're not available,
I'm here for you.
I just thought I'd put myself out thereand say hello.
(42:28):
Yeah.
Asking those questions andand getting to the bottom of what
the actual issue is, or whatever
the actual objection is onthat side of things is, is critical.
So as you're talking to people,
if they say they're currently workingwith somebody, Craig, like you said,
they may be working with somebody,it doesn't mean they're happy.
It doesn't mean that they're there.
(42:48):
You know, everything'sgoing smoothly on that side.
So you can ask those questions.
You can ask, you know, do you mind measking how how's everything going?
You know, and and that's not,
you know, a crazy question to ask.
And a lot of timesby just asking that question,
they'll start kind of speaking out there.
Sometimes they'll hear,you know, it's like, hey, yeah,
it's actually my, my brother in lawthat's doing it for me, you know?
(43:10):
So they just kind of take thatinto consideration.
You want to
you want to respondbased on what they said, not
you have your cans, your responsesready to go.
So listen and then respondand not just respond to respond.
And so a lot of times, you know, if itif it is that it's like I
ran into that several times or it's like,well, my my daughter's doing my,
(43:30):
my photography, you know,
because she's going to school for itor something along those lines.
You can still ask those
follow up questions and just say, hey,do you know,
is she able to doall the different services for you?
You know, like aerialand things along those lines?
Because a lot of timesthey might be a photographer,
but they don't have the abilityto do other things.
And you can simply say, I get that, youknow, they have the photography covered.
(43:54):
I'd love to be another,
you know, arrow in your quiverfor whatever you need on that side.
So we can be available for, for droneor whatever the case would be.
And then even just askinghow it's going for,
you know, standard it's like, yeah, I'musing XYZ company.
Ask how it's going.
And, you know,if they're if they're completely happy.
One thing I think that we've learned
(44:14):
is if they're like, yeah, I'musing this company and everything's great,
I love them.I've been using them for years.
You're not typically goingto spend a ten minute conversation
and convince them, you know,and you don't want to convince them
that, that they're actually wrong onwhat their thought process is.
Right.
So, you know,spend your time wisely on that.
Don't don't ruin a futureor a potential future relationship
because you're wanting to close the saletoday.
(44:36):
Just have that conversationand say, oh, no, I completely get it.
You know,it sounds like you got everything
kind of working well for you,so I don't want to step on any toes.
I'd love to, you know, I'm
going to send you my info in caseanything ever changes in the future.
And I'll follow up every.
You know, is it okay if I follow up insix months and, just kind of check in and,
you know, again,don't expect to get instant gratification
(44:59):
from that call, but I can tell youover time, they do convert.
You know, things change.
That person moves out of the areathat person stopped doing,
you know, their business or whateverthe case is.
They're working full time elsewhere.
And I can't tell you how many timesI've called to follow up.
And it's like, actually, it's funnyyou call
because I'm actually looking forsomebody now, you know, so
that that's that top of mind iswhat will get you there.
(45:22):
And just building the relationship is,is kind of the step stool
to get to that point.
One thing I, I say to
Todd, I'm used to talking about one thingI say, Steve,
when when I do get that response of,hey, I've been, you know,
I've got a photographer, I've been workingwith them forever, and they're happy.
I respect loyalty,
(45:42):
I want my clients to be loyal to me,
you know, assumingthat I'm providing them good service.
So I respect that in a competitor
that is providing good servicefor their client.
And I let that that person thatI'm talking to know, hey, I respect that.
You know, I'm not.
Yeah.
I'm not going to push hard on thatif they're ever not available.
(46:03):
And you justyou need to shoot by by a certain date,
you know,hey, we'd love to be a secondary for you.
And, and it just cover, you know, coverfor your current photographer.
And then that builds respect in thembecause you're not impinging
on the relationshipthat they value already.
think of it from the other perspective.
(46:24):
You know, if you were an agent
and you got a call, somebodytrying to sell you on something
and you just told them how much youand you really like the,
the person or the companythat you're working with now.
And then their next response is, well,let me tell you why they're not good.
And I am like that.
That's something that
that you're just never goingto really recover from, because that it's
(46:44):
that first impression in their mindis going to be like,
wow, he was really pushy or like,I just they didn't and I'm happy.
And and now he'she didn't listen to me. Yeah.
Yeah yeah.
So I mean that isthat is critical on that side of things.
And that is something that I thinka lot of
when you're thinking that the traditionallike sales person, that's
where some of that falls off on successbecause they're not listening.
(47:07):
They're just ready to respond
with whatever they want to say next,not reacting to what they say.
I've got to tell you a story,and I wish I would have been in our sales
meeting Monday morning
because this was a perfect exampleof what you're just talking about.
And then if you've got anything to closewith, we'll wrap things up here.
But I have to hear the story, Steve.
So I went to the car wash
(47:29):
was I think it was last week,and there's this one car wash in town
that it's easy to get in and out of,and it is popular.
But I noticed they started doing somethingthat royally irritated me.
And it's happened, I think, twice in this.
Last week was the third timethat since I started noticing this,
(47:50):
that I pulled up and I'm like, God,please don't let this happen.
What they started doingwas they have automated kiosks, two
different lanes, one for members,
one for single car washesthat feed into going into the car wash.
You know, you select which wash you want.
It's all self-serve.
It's really nice. It'seasy, it's low pressure.
But obviously they're tryingto push these monthly memberships
(48:11):
with their advertisingand their signage. It's all very clear.
It's very well, you know, spelled out.
It's not hard to understand
what they started doinga couple of months ago
with sending one of their employees outto stand at the automated kiosk.
As you pull upand push the buttons for you
and and try and talk to youinto doing the monthly membership.
(48:36):
Now, I hate hard sales
and pushy sales, and it irritated me.
So this last week when I pulled up,there was nobody out there
or somebody had been out there,but they walked back in.
I thought,oh, awesome, I'm going to be able
to get through and squeeze through
without them bugging me to tryand push their monthly program and get.
Doesn't it happen that they
(48:56):
walk back outas I'm then pulling up, I'm like,
I'm going to tell them howI feel about this because I'm
really kind of insulted
that everything is laid out.
I understand the monthly program.
It's all there in front of me.
You have an automated systemfor me to serve myself.
Very easy to hit my button,put my credit card in and just go right.
(49:17):
I don't want a sales presentationas I'm going into a car wash.
So this guy comes outand he starts to starts to talk.
I'm like,
let me just say something.
I said, this is I'm not trying to be mean.
I'm not trying to be, you know, rudeor anything like that, I said,
but I'm in sales myself,and I'm just going to share
(49:38):
for some feedback for you,for your leadership, your management.
I find it really offputting for you guysto come out here and push the buttons.
For me, when it's an automated systemthat's very easy to operate
and try and talk meinto a monthly program.
It's a hard sales tactic.
It's a very pushy sales tactic,and it's really off putting to the point
(49:59):
where I'm probablynot going to come back to this car wash.
And of course, he he kind of froze and
I'm like,I'm not trying to be mean to you.
I'm because I understandhe's probably doing this
because his boss told himthis is what the program is
now, what they have to dois they're trying to get sales goals.
(50:19):
Right. I get this.
And so Steve, no joke.
His response, his response was,
well, we understand, but we're just tryingto really push the monthly program
and let people know howthey can save money.
But he literally use the wordspush this program.
Oh man. Yes.
(50:42):
My jaw dropped.
I'm like,
did you just hear what you saidand what I just said?
And he kind of looks at me blankly again.
I'm like,I don't want you pushing a program on me.
I go to the car washmaybe once every six weeks.
That program is not going to save meany money.
He wasn't actively listening.
I had a similar experienceI can throw out real quick recently.
(51:05):
Just as an example is, we have, you know,I mow our own lawn.
You know, we don't have a huge lawn,but we do have a company that comes out
and treats it like, I think, twice a year,you know, so nothing crazy.
So they contacted me.
We've been using them for years, for justfor the treatment on that side of things.
They contacted meand they're trying to get more business
(51:26):
for the actual mowing and landscapingand everything else.
And so I told him, I'm mow my own lawn.
And I mean, just verbatim,I can tell they're reading from a script.
And so after I say I mow my own mind,they're telling me how
they can save me money compared to whoI'm currently paying to have do it.
And so again, just going backto, you know, you're not listening at all.
(51:48):
You're just responding just to respond.
And, honestly, I it got to the point.
I told them no three timesand they're still telling me how,
you know, they can save me moneyor whatever the case is, to the point
where I canceled my other servicewith them.
Oh, I'm not,
you know, it's it's not something thatI want to go through and everything else.
So, I mean,we all have examples like that.
(52:10):
And so just think of that mindsetas you're talking to people,
you know, is, is is if you wereif roles were reversed,
you know, would youhow would you feel about how you're,
how you'reyou're taking this conversation.
Right.
And if you want to feel good about it,then you're probably doing
something wrong.
And I would adjust,you know, that approach.
But, you know, just put yourselfin the other person's shoes and,
(52:32):
and I think that goes a long way
in the mentalitybehind the sales side of things for sure.
Keys. Yeah.
That ended up costing them money.
Yeah.
It's not it'snot a ton of money on their side.
But you know, it's the opposite of whatthey were looking for.
And and so there's little fans can reallyand and you know I'm going to be out
in the community if somebody says,hey do you know somebody that can do this?
(52:54):
My answer is probably going to be like,well, I tell you who not to use.
Yeah.
So it actually can work againstyou even beyond that one customer.
So just be just be consciousof those conversations.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Steve, thank you so much for taking timethis week to to join us.
Just always enjoy having you onand sharing your knowledge,
with, with those that are watching,listening and trying to, to develop their,
(53:17):
their business development as well.
So thank you. Yes, thanks for having me.
I always enjoy kind of talking through thethe sales and marketing side.
So hopefully that helps everybody.
And if there's any any follow up questionsI'd love to know afterwards as well.
Yeah.
If somebody wanted to reach out to youor how can they get Ahold of you?
Probably the easiest way to reach meis just by email.
(53:39):
So it's just Steve@wowvideotours.com
and, I'd be glad toto help out where I can.
Yeah.
So feel free.
Or if you wantbecause we always repeat this email.
Just emailhello@spiro.media and just say
hey I'd love to get in contact with Steveand we can put you in contact
with Steve as well.
So yeah.
All right.
Well Steve thank you. Appreciate it.
(54:01):
Yes. Thank you.
Yeah. Enjoy your weekend. Yes.
yes, thank you. you too.
For those of you watching listening againthank you for making the time.
If you found value in this obviouslywe always appreciate a like,
you know, on, on the YouTube channel,
feel free to leave any comments, thingsthat you've learned that might help
somebody else in, in a different market.
(54:21):
We, we love the community buildingand just sharing of ideas
and things like that.
But yeah, we appreciate you guys.
Hopefully you found value inthat is if you're struggling
a little bit with getting your,your, business development effort going.
Lots of creative ideas out there.
But ultimately it all boils downto consistency and relationship. So.
All right, you guys have a great week.
(54:42):
Make sure you take some time,
especially as we head into the busy seasonhere, to, you know, just be thankful
for the blessings in your lifeand make sure you take a breath as well.
Have a great week.
Thank you for joining usfor the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
This is a production of Spiroand Wow video Tours.
(55:03):
You can find out more about Spiro
is Real Estate Media Business managementsoftware at our website.
Spiro.media.
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