October 22, 2025 • 48 mins
There is often a lot of anxiety and fear over having to go out and "sell" your real estate media services and products. But what if we told you that not selling, sells? Steve Musser, Director of Sales & Marketing, along with Chris Voge, Sales Manager both of WOW Video Tours joins Craig this week to talk about an approach to business development that doesn't feel so...well...like you're a used car salesman. (Sorry any used car salespeople that may see this).
What are some ways to approaching business development that will allow you to get word out about your business and build a clientele, without resorting to the myriad of "sales tactics & training" that feel less than...honest? Genuine? Authentic? You get the drift.
Spiro Sync '26 Information: https://spiro.media/spiro-sync/
Chapter Timestamps:
0:00 Episode Open
01:14 Spiro Sync Event
02:11 How Not Selling, Sells
47:05 Episode Wrap-up
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
So when they hear thatthey have a negative, you know,
thought process on that, they,they don't want to be sold to
they don't want to sell to others.
But if you take yourself out of thatextreme mentality on that side of things
into more of the consultative sellingthen one, your fears are going to go away.
(00:34):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
Spiro is a software platform.
It's designed to help you manageand run your day to day real estate
media business and ultimatelyreally help it to scale up as well.
I'm Craig Magrum,thanks for joining us this week.
And this week we do not haveour fearless leader, Todd Kivimaki.
(00:58):
But we do have two other, faces thatyou have seen before and or heard before.
If you're listening to the audio podcast,and I'll introduce them in just a second.
We got a great topic for you this week.
In some some voices of experienceto share with you on this topic.
But before we dive in,just want to give you a quick update
on the Spiro Sync conferencethat is coming up in January.
(01:22):
We still have room.
For you to attend. Only 150 spots total.
The VIP experience has already that
that sold out almost immediately,but we still have some room for you.
To come and join us in Dayton, Ohio.
And, you can find out moreby going to Spiro.media.
And in the top nav bar thereis, Spiro Sync 26, link that you can click
(01:45):
to find out more.
And we'd love to to join,have you join us and meet us in person. So
that's really all we've
got in terms of, Spiro updates this week.
Todd will be off this week and next weekand then be rejoining us.
And we're heading into Vegas and the REPPconference and the PMRE Conference.
Lots of great, timesto get together and exchange ideas.
(02:07):
So all right,that's going to do it for announcements.
Let me introduce our guests.
Slash co-host Steve Musser.
VP of sales marketing.
Did I get the the title right?
Not that you care about title Steve
The business card says director.
Director. Hang by.
But you can call mewhatever you want to
of Wow video tours.And also Chris Voge.
(02:31):
He is our sales manager, businessdevelopment manager for Wow Video Tours.
Steven, Chris, thanks for joining me.
Joining me this week. Yeah, thanks Craig.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, one and whenever the three of usget in a room, the topic is sales. And,
I'm constantly seeing
(02:51):
questions in Facebookgroups, related real estate media
about different sales techniquesand how to, you know, develop
your business and how to approach peopleand get your business running.
And there's a lot of anxiety around thesubject of sales and business development.
And so we wanted to pick your your brain.
And in the topic,the way we're kind of kind of couch,
(03:15):
this is not selling sells.
The overall agreement disagreement.
What what do you think Steve.
Yeah. No I, I agree 100%.
So sales I think is one of those thingsthat when a lot of people hear it, they,
they either if you're not in sales,you kind of cringe, you know, or you're
(03:38):
if you're in one of those positionsthat's kind of,
tiptoeing in and out of sales,you kind of cringe on that side of things.
So I know, I know,
it's something that, can be a little bitintimidating on that side of things,
but I, I agree with that because you don'thave to approach it from a,
your stereotypical like used carsalesman approach to be in sales.
(03:59):
You know, anything that you're doingthat, build relationships, connect
with people, get them what they need,and it's going to further their business.
That is sales.
So not selling is the sales, right?
Chris, your thoughts overall,what do you think of
when you hear the word sales? Yeah.
It's interesting because, you know, we hadwe were actually meeting
(04:19):
with a photographer earlier in this weekand he was so nice.
Like, I don't like selling out.I don't like getting out there.
And and, you know, hehe had the old traditional,
the, that hard core, you know,what you see on the movies kind of pitch,
man sort of thing, where you trick peopleand stuff like that. And,
(04:39):
I don't like that either, you know?
So basically we had to explain to himthat there's that, that the term
selling is,is can have different meanings and,
and that hard, close, trick,you know, like,
be like and, and, and,you know, this crazy verbiage and stuff
like that,
especially in this businessbecause you're talking
to other salespeople,it just doesn't work.
(05:00):
So you have to gowith a different approach for sure.
Right?
So let's let's dive into thata little bit, a little bit deeper.
I like looking at this from,from a different perspective.
So Steve, obviouslywe've given the overall view of sales, but
as a business owner, you know, obviously
you're you're leading from a standpointof sales and marketing at
Wow video tours.
(05:22):
Your experiencekind of like what Chris just referenced in
speaking to another business owner.
What has your perceptionbeen from business owners
when when you're talking with them,seeing them start their own business?
What do
owners usually think ofwhen they think of sales?
Yeah, I mean, think of itfrom, from any business owner or,
(05:45):
you know,if you've ever had, yourself in that seat,
you know, one thing that, that I thinkpeople think of is, is they're contacted,
you know, 5 or 10, 20 times a week, fromdifferent people saying by this, by this,
by this, and so in their head, that's whatthey're thinking, the sales approaches.
And so they don't like being sold to,they have to sell to their clients,
(06:08):
but they don't want to be that personthat's been reaching out to them
and harassing them,trying to get them to buy whatever service
or whateverthe case would be on that side of that.
And so I think, I think you have to,to kind of disconnect there, you know,
as a business ownerand just understand that
when we talk about selling,it's basically,
you know, boil it down to the basics,is, is you have a in demand service that
(06:32):
they need,and you just need to connect them
to the right services and productsand everything under that umbrella
to help them advance their business.
So if you're doing that,you are selling without any of the,
the stigma behindselling on that side of things.
Chris, when when you've talked to people,
that are purchasing things,
(06:56):
do you have any storiesor things that you've experienced or run
into out, out in the marketplace of peoplethat are being sold or what?
What's the consumer view of salesfrom your your perspective?
Well,I mean, I can give you my perspective,
you know, so, yeah, I've been in,so many sales training classes.
(07:16):
Yeah, I've been selling for,we'll call it 30 years now.
And, I've been in so many training classesand some of these in seminars
and things like that.
And, and you go to these thingsand it'll be like, you know, these, these,
these trainers will say, write this downand say this exactly this way.
And, and I'm just like,no, I'm not going to do that.
(07:37):
But then it's always funnywhen I get when I get a phone call,
you know, from
obviously like a telemarketeror something like that.
And I hear them using techniques,it's like,
yeah, I was taught that technique too,and I it's just like, let me tell you.
And I just run circles around it, like,
I want to get to the pointwhere I play games with them
(07:57):
because it's just like,yeah, this, this stuff is
it doesn't work, you know,be honest, just be straightforward.
And when you come in,you're hitting me with the sales pitch.
People feel that. People know that.
And the first thing it does,it just makes it just pushes you
that it makes them want to push you awayand and turns them off.
(08:18):
And it's just not not the right way to go.
You know, you got to be genuine.
And then the typical we'll call
car salesman, the used car salesman,that's what everybody talks about.
That typical person is just ever likethey're hated for a reason.
You know that.
That's the stereotype is is therefor a reason and you just can't do it.
(08:41):
So it's just it's not the way to go.
Right? Right.
I was going to ask, you know what?
What do you think?People don't like being sold.
Can I get into the psychology?
But I think it's kind of self-evident.
Steve. What? Wouldn't you agree?
It's just. Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think
I think, you know, from my perspective,you know, same same as Chris.
You know, I've been in sales my, my entirelife, you know, in different aspects.
(09:04):
I've been lucky enough to be in
consultative selling, which matches upto what Chris and I believe in.
And what our philosophy is, is
just you build a relationship,you help people out and everything.
The sales take care of themselves
because you're you're doing everythingthe right way
and getting them what they needand everything else.
The flip side of that is,is the high pressure tactics, too,
where you know, if you don't,
(09:25):
if you don't buy from me,you're making a huge mistake.
You know, you need to do this,you need to do that.
And so,unfortunately, that side of the sales
is why people associate with itis that, you know, psychologically.
So when they hear thatthey have a negative, you know,
thought process on that, they,they don't want to be sold to
they don't want to sell to others.
But if you take yourself out of thatextreme mentality on that side of things
(09:48):
into more of the consultative sellingthen one, your fears are going to go away.
You're not going to have to worry about,oh, I have to sell.
You're going to be like,oh, I get to talk to people.
I get to build relationships,I get to do all this.
And then youryour clients are also going to react to
it much more positivelybecause it's not a sales call.
It's a call from my, my friendChris that's helping me out,
(10:10):
you know, on this listing or whateverthe case is.
So that'sI think the biggest thing is, is break
that break that mentalitythat it has to be
the extreme side of the sales,and it starts to open up a lot of doors.
Chris, would you agree or disagree
that even even in the consultativetype of approach, there's still some,
(10:33):
quote unquote,like traditional or stereotypical sales
things that you have to do,like say cold calling,
or following up on a referralwith somebody you haven't talked to.
Is that fair to say that?
Yeah, I think it's fair to say,
I mean, because in this business,you know, I mean, you
I guess you could never coldcall, but, then, you know, you
(10:55):
then you're just, you know,you're not really selling in any way.
You're hoping that people referyou and things on those lines.
But that being said, though, two, he can
you can still coldcall people and be genuine.
And, and and then
you just come across less like, like the,like Steve
(11:16):
said, the, the actual sales personthat you come across is somebody,
you know, reaching out, like,you know, trying to win your business.
But so yeah, you,you it's it's a fine line.
You, you walk where you
I think the key is being genuine.
If you are who you areand you just kind of going in there
and and open and honest, not not trying tobe sly or anything like that.
(11:41):
You can still do
these, you know, these sales things, like,you need to follow up with people.
You need to check in, you need to
cold call, warm call, whatever,whatever it might be.
But you can do it in a wayto where you're it's less,
offensive and less, slimyfor for people to call.
I like that word slimy.
(12:02):
Yeah. It's, Yeah.
So most of us,I don't think, want to be slimy.
You know, I, I, you know,I work with both of you, obviously is
doing business development in the marketthat I'm in, and and
I don't want my reputation to bethe slimy, slick sales guy.
Right.
You know, we want to be real with people
(12:22):
and we want towe want to help and serve people.
And I really believe
when I first got into this,I literally prayed a prayer of like, God,
would you give me somethingI can, I can sell that is of true value
to somebody like thisreally will help somebody.
And at least from my perspective,I feel like I can't really sell something
(12:43):
with a clear conscienceunless I truly believe that
what I'm sellingis really going to serve somebody well.
And when you when you truly believe that,
then you can come throughas an authentic person in genuine
and not the slick, slimytype of personality where, yeah, you're
(13:03):
trying to sell a used lemon of a car
or something like that.
Steve, I kind of want to.
I like top three listsor like three points of action.
So we've we've kind of gonethrough that just, you know, the overall,
psychology of selling, but it's notselling because not selling sells.
(13:24):
That's,that's the overall arching theme here.
So can you share your top three ways
that you sell by not selling a story?
You know, a certain approach.
Top three thingsjust kind of step us through.
And then Chris will have you do the same.
Yeah. No.
So so throughout my career,like I said, I've been and
(13:46):
and the consultative sellingyou know, side of sales.
And so I appreciate that.
And it's helped me.
Everybody has a little bit differentmethod to get there.
You know I,I still works with a lot of companies
that still have their salesprocess, their acronyms.
They're you know, you got to do this, thisand this and it's all true.
But it all I don't really comes down tois is start the relationship.
(14:08):
You know.
So even if you're doing a cold callintroduce yourself.
Let them know who you are.
Be genuine with itso you don't have to worry about,
you know, it's like, hey,what can we get you on the books today?
You know, that's not how you really know.
If you're not trying to get that way.
So so get that introduction done, youknow, start building that relationship.
I think that number twowould be uncover the needs.
(14:30):
So understand where they're at nowand what their needs are.
So obviously in our, in our industry,either they're real estate
agentsor brokers is who we're talking about.
So their needs, you know, you canoversimplify and say real estate media.
But everybody's a little bit different.
You know, maybe
maybethey already have a partner in place.
So maybe their need is not youat that moment, but you can still kind of
(14:53):
talk to that and understandwhat they need at that moment
and then try to move to step three,
which is essentially match upwhat you're offering.
That solves the problem of their needs.
So, you know, if they have, a good examplewe always use
is, is a lot of times on cold calls,we'll call, we'll call, we'll reach out
to an agent and say, you know, hey,I'm Stive with Wow video tours,
(15:15):
you know, we do the real estate mediain the, in the market,
you know,and just wanted to introduce myself
and do you mind me asking you,who do you currently use for your media?
And so in that situation,you started the introduction.
You're getting to the questionin a probing to understand
like what their needs are.
And so they may spin out,you know, it's like, hey, I have my
you know, we hear a lot.
(15:35):
You know, my familymember does my media or the brokers
I work forhas already has somebody in place.
And so their needs right nowmight not be for you.
So you can still sell to them,but and build that relationship,
but just kind of start the conversationand say, hey, you know, I understand,
you know, Chris, Chris,I think he's the one that taught me this.
(15:56):
I just kind of go into you, you know,I don't want to step on toes.
You know, relationships are keyin our business, you know?
So that's that's important to me to,
and then keep asking the
questions, you know, and just kind of see,
you have a solution alreadyfor your needs,
but isn't a total solution, you know, arethey always available?
Do they do all the servicesyou need? Do they?
(16:16):
If you can ask those questions,all you're trying to do
is find out what those needs areand what they still have a a hole,
you know, in their business to try to fill
and then introduce, you know,your solutions to those problems.
And, and,
you know, it's not always going to bean instant close by if you follow
kind of those three steps and that'sthe oversimplification of the process.
(16:37):
But, will get you to where you need to be,you know, and sometimes that's day
one that you start, you know,
that that relationshipand possibly even sell them right there.
It may be, you know,two years down the road when finally,
you know, something switches, you know,and then they have
that need at that momentand they're going to think of you.
So that's kind of, the oversimplifiedsteps on that side of things.
(17:00):
I was youyou touched on the number one question
I had is, is this all in the first callthat you're doing?
You know, that first cold call,
are you ask, trying to uncoverthe needs immediately there?
Or are you asking for an appointmentto meet with, in person
to talk through those things?
What what what is worked best for you?
I think I think some of it depends,you know,
(17:22):
on who the person is, how the conversationgoes, things along those lines.
But I think it's an opportunityon the first call
to kind of start getting some of thosethose needs uncovered,
figure out where they're currently at,you know, what their
what their current solutions are,if it's the best solution for them.
All of that stuff,it's going to it's going to vary.
You know, it'snot a it's not a silver bullet.
(17:43):
Sometimes you're doing thatright on the phone.
Sometimes, you know,if you especially if you know the person,
but you haven't had a chance to connect
with them on a business levelat that point,
and, you know, they're more personalor they want to sit down and discuss.
You can offer that.
So you kind of carry that,and some of that conversation
will kind of dictatewhere that goes to you.
You know, if they're if they're like,hey, it's not a great time right now.
(18:06):
You know, you can follow up with,you know, hey, can we meet in person?
Can I stop in, can I buy you lunch?Can I get a coffee?
You know thatthere's a lot of avenues there.
So it could be on that initial call,but that might just be step one.
And then you continue on andand even that to get, good conversation
where you start getting more of thatuncovered, that might be, you know,
a month, six months, a year down the roaduntil you can get to that point.
(18:29):
But you start with oneand kind of work through.
And that timeline is going to varya little bit by if you can do those,
then then your business is going to showthe benefit of that.
Right?
So you've kind of mentionedin passing a couple of times
this isn't necessarilyan immediate response type of approach.
It can take timeand we need to be patient with that.
(18:52):
Yes. Be patient.
You know, that's ifif you go after that hard close like Chris
kind of alluded to earlier, is that one,it's going to typically turn them away.
You know, it's going to be like okaynow in their head they're going to think,
how quick can I get off this phone calland never talk to this person again?
You know?
And that's like so so be using Chris'sword.
(19:15):
Be genuine.
You know, when you're talking
to the person, startthat, start that relationship off.
It may be just that.
It may be like,hey, I'm Steve with wow video tours,
you know,
and that might be,
you know,
outside of those first couple sentencesthat your conversation might fade
out right there.
By then, just put a pin in it, scheduleyour next activity.
So we're going to follow up in acouple days a week, whatever the case is,
(19:37):
you know,trying to catch them at a better time
or get a better conversationgoing, things like that,
and then just continue the processon that next step.
Excellent. Chris, how about you?
What what are your topthree ways of selling without selling been
throughout your career and any storiesyou have that you know feel free to share?
Sure.
I think I think a lot of what you know,like Steve and I have very similar
(20:01):
philosophies and similar,you know, like the way we approach things,
I think it's more like to, to feed offof what he's kind of talking about.
There's a few caveats to keep in mind.
First of all, when I do call people, youknow, I actually use the same question.
But I start the first questionI asked them, and this is
this is a risky one in some ways is first,like so I'll call them, say, hey,
(20:23):
this is Chris with Wow Video Tours.
Did I catch you at a good time.
Now, the reason it's risky is becausesomebody could just lie and say no, no.
And then the and then you say, whenwould be a better time to call you back?
And then they don't answer.
And that's, that's always a risky you do.
But if you call somebodyand they are in the middle of something
(20:44):
and then you just go into your agenda,
they're going to get angry,they're going to kick you.
And then that's our thing.
So I genuinely ask that.
And usually what I'll getand you can even hear in their voice,
you can hear like, well, I have a second.
Like, what do you want, man?
You know, like they justthey're waiting for it to come and
and so then, then they go into,you know, like, hey, I just
(21:06):
I wanted to reach out to you,you know, you know, I noticed
that a lot of times I notice you'rea major player in the real estate market.
I just want to ask you,who do you use for in real estate media
and then let them go from there?
The key
to it is don't go into it with an agendabecause you asked about,
like, do you close, you know, on the samecall, don't go into with an agenda.
(21:29):
Don't go in there like I'm going to sellthat this product and this product
and this product because those productsmay not mean a thing to that person.
So you go into it asking questionsand getting to understand
what their needs are.
And then what you do is you fit base.
They say, these are my needs.
And you say, okay, I can meet those needsor I can't meet those needs
(21:52):
because that might also be the case.
They may be like, I want you to be able to
if I call you up, I want you to be ableto go shoot in an hour at this house.
And if you can't do that,then that might not be the client for you.
And, you know,
so you just you have to figure out, like,what is this person's needs?
Can I meet those needs?
Now let me tell that personhow I can meet those needs.
(22:14):
As far as
asking the question with regards to,
do you try and set up a meeting,that sort of thing?
I personally have always been,
I'm going to go until you stop me.
So I spent 20 years selling new homes,and I.
I sold a lot of homes.
People walked in the door
(22:35):
and they walked out the door,having bought a new home that day.
Now, it took hours to do this,but my philosophy was always,
I'm going to keep going until you stop me.
And so in this business, it'sthe same thing.
I keep asking questions.
I get to know what they're looking for,what it is, and then,
and then I kind of say, you know, hey,yeah, we, you know, we've got this
(22:57):
product, we've got this product, you know,like, everything you're looking for.
I can take care of that.
And then,you know, I may ask you a question.
Do you have a coming out that we could,that we can take care of
for you, helpyou with, show you what we can do?
And if they do, and, then
my next question is going to be, well,you know, let me let me do this.
(23:17):
Let me get you on the system.
Let's let's get you in.
Let's get it to get, an appointment set upand let's see if we can get it done.
And again, if theyif they'll let me do that, I will do that.
I will follow all the way through.
Now, that's the reality of itis the odds of catching somebody
who who needs, who needs, doesn't likewho they're working with, needs to find
(23:38):
somebody and has a listingready to go are kind of low.
So you're going to get stoppedat some point in time.
But again,
you just you just think, okay, so yes,they're they're open to talk and what this
but no, they don't have a listing.
And so then, you know, thenyou kind of go, okay, what's my fallback.
Well, so I can't,I can't, quote, sell them a,
(24:01):
an appointment to that,you know, an actual,
where we go out and capture the media.
What I'll do that is I'll say, you know,you know, do you have anything coming up?
And, and so let's saythat I asked a question.
You have me coming up,we can help you with,
and they may say like, nothing rightnow, but,
you know, at the end of October,early November, I've got a house
(24:22):
that's going to go on the marketthat I'm going to be listing.
And so it's, you know, at that point thatwhat I would say is like, okay, great.
Well, let me do this.Let me send you some information.
And then let me, I'll, I'll touch base.
You know, I'll touch base here.
It's to today is, you know, October 17thand they're saying the end of October,
early November.
(24:44):
So I'll touch baselike in a week or ten days
and, just see how that's coming along.
And I'd love to.
I'd love to go, you know, capture thathome for you to show you what we can do.
And so you're getting themto verbally commit
to, like, yeah,I'll let you guys have a shot on that.
And then, you know,you just kind of follow up, but,
you know, again that the key toit is asking the questions,
(25:08):
and finding, you know,because like I said, if you're like,
we have these great agent on camera videosand, you know,
you would just love them and they're like,
I will never in a million yearsget in front of a camera body.
You're not going to that has zero value.
You just pitch somethingthat they hate that maybe.
So you have to know what they want.
(25:28):
What they what they're meaning.
And then figure out what you havefits their needs.
That's.
And, you know, can I make a quick pointon top of that too?
Yeah. Yeah.
Just just for anybody listeningbecause I think, one thing that Chris
and I probably have both experienced over
our careers is, is I've been through salestrainings to where they say,
you know, with what Chris just said, likewhen you call someone, say, did I catch
(25:50):
you had a good time.
But they that's like not in their modelor like you never do that
because you're giving themand you're doing this.
So just just keep an open mindwhen you're looking out there,
you know, hopefully you're listeningto this podcast, get some some advice
on, you know, some selling techniquesand everything for your clients.
If you're looking elsewhere, just keepthat in mind is that there are different
models out there for sales.
(26:13):
So that doesn't
mean that that one is is right.
I think that our method fits our industrya lot better than the other methods,
because the high pressure salesis, is good for certain things, you know,
and that's not something that,
you know, me personallyor I think any of us,
but having an interestin being in that area.
But I just wanted to address thatbecause I've had people ask that before.
(26:35):
It's just like, well, aren'tyou giving them an option to say no?
And it's like, yeah, now you know,
and in some cases that's not a bad thing.
So I just wanted to point that out
just in casethere's some, some confusion out there.
That's a questionI've gotten a couple times.
Well, it ties directly into a phrase.
I might have heard this from one of you,
but the phrase is thisyou can't sell a salesperson.
(26:59):
And that's who our clients are.
They're salespeople.
Now, I said that to one realtor,and if you actually got
a little offended, he's like,I am not a salesperson, I am a consultant.
I'm like,
okay, that's that's fair because that'swhat we're trying to present ourselves,
as, you know, also isthat we're not trying to sell you.
We're trying to be part of your teamand consult with you and,
(27:22):
you know, find the right toolsfor what you're trying to accomplish.
So I'm like, okay, thatthat's that's fair.
But I, I've actually said that and sharedthat in presentations,
you know, brokerage presentationsbefore where I just tell them, look,
I can tell you what we do,
but I'm not going to try and sell youbecause I can't sell a salesperson.
And nine times out of ten,
(27:42):
I usually get some laughs out of thatbecause they get it right.
We're we're all in the same field
of trying to find solutionsto people's needs.
And yeah, there are different techniquesand methods and whatnot, but
I find trying to just,
you know, have some levity
and have some fun with it and be realwith people kind of breaks that ice.
(28:03):
And it's like, okay, yeah,we all know what we're doing here.
Yeah.
I just that made me think of that phrase.
I would even take it a step further,because I think you can, in theory,
you know, you can say, sell a salesperson.
I think you can't trick a salesperson.Yeah.
Knowing that they're being sold to,you know, on that side of the fence.
(28:25):
But there are times,you know, that I get phone calls
all the time, you know, for eitherwithin the business or personal,
you know, where someone's, like,trying to sell you whatever it is.
And I will tell you, there's timeswhere, you know,
I know they're selling to me,but there's some times
where I shut down because it's like, hey,you know,
you're not you're not approaching thisin the right way.
(28:46):
And there's other times where they,they kind of
bring me in and,you know, it's like, oh, okay.
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to it because.
Because, I mean, you're giving me value.
You're doing what?
You know, you'retrying to figure out worth what you have.
If it's a solution for what I need,just like we do with our clients.
So I've, I've bought things several timesbefore because I had an open mind
and that they approached me in a good way,and it was actually a good fit for,
(29:08):
for something for me.
So I think that's just something to keepin mind too, is, is, you know, sales.
I know that that terminologygets thrown around
and people have a negative stigma with it,but it's actually a good thing,
you know,if you have the right, the right workflow,
not only for usbut for our clients, it's a good thing.
Chris, would you have any advicefor somebody
you know, see, somebodyis an introverted type of personality.
(29:31):
And they really they get a lot of anxietyover this whole subject of sales.
They love what they do.
They love, you know, the real estate mediathat they're shooting.
And they really dowant to see their business grow.
But do you have any practical tipsfor like, say, an introverted personality
on on how they get approachesto get over that anxiety?
Yeah.
I mean, first of all, I don't knowif you're ever going to get get over it.
(29:53):
You have to power through it.
Okay. Tell you the truth.
I mean, there's times where I make itlike we're.
I'll make phone calls and I get nervous.
And and again, like you.
Chris.
Yeah. Yeah.You get nervous? Yeah. For sure.
You know, it's like,
okay,I gotta make this, and I have to like,
I have just get out of my heada little bit.
But then.
But the reality of it is the big thingI and that I,
(30:14):
I like to approach on something like thatis, is less along the lines of like,
Will you get rejectedbecause you're going,
and it's more alongthe lines of two things.
One, that rejection,unless you do something, you know,
crazy that rejection is not about you,it's about their needs.
And so they don't need you right nowso you have a chance of getting rejected.
(30:37):
But the biggest thing is, isif you don't make that phone call,
what do you gainby not making that phone call?
You gain nothing.
If you make that phone call and you fail,
what do you gain?
You gain nothing.So you lost nothing as well.
So making the phone call givesyou the chance to win that opportunity.
(31:00):
Not making the phone call.
Get guarantees you will not.
So the worst casescenario is if you're making a phone call
and you strike out, you lostabsolutely nothing.
You know, other than
30s of your time, two minutes of yourtime, you know, that sort of thing.
So I would just go into what thatattitude, like, what do I have to lose?
(31:22):
I have to lose that,
and then understandthat if they do turn you
down, it's,it's more their situation less you,
and then finally understandthat this business is a numbers game.
Okay?
Because obviously, you know,you look at like you look at what we do,
you know, market share.
(31:42):
I mean, there's and some of the workswhere you're looking at,
you know, if we were looking at numbersyesterday, Steve and I were and,
you know, my market,
in nine months,there were 30,000 listings.
So I was kind of like,I can't shoot all 30,000 list.
And so, you know, what if I don'tif I don't, if I strike out
(32:02):
with this person, there's plenty of other,agents out there that I can click with
or find that has a need or whateverthe case may be, and I'll find them.
There's plenty to go around.
It's fine. And just.
You just just keep trying.
Keep plugging along.
Steve something Chris
and he mentioned phone call specifically.
(32:24):
What what are your thoughts on phone calls
versus, say, emails or,
other digital waysof reaching out to people?
Is there one
that's better than the other, oris it more of a personality type of thing?
I, I think all of them are important.
Because if you do all phone calls,then you're not going to be
(32:45):
as effective as you wereif you did a mix of other, other things.
Same thing with emailor anything like that.
So I don't think it's a, you know,one size fits all on that side of
a side of the, the equation.
I do think that in general, though,you don't want to fall back
to doing the emailsbecause it's an easier,
no contact wayand and get a hold of people. Yeah.
(33:05):
The email should supplement
everything else that you're doingand not be, you know, a dedicated.
That's a trapthat I think some people fall into.
It's like, hey, I'm nervous
to pick up the call at the phoneand I call this person,
so I'm going to send an email,you know, so.
Right.Don't don't go into it with that approach.
But you also can't just do one thingand, and expect to get the same results
(33:26):
as having a variety of contacts out therebecause our our method,
what's brought usthe most success is just being consistent.
Is the biggest thing.
So like Chris said, you're not going towin every, every person on, on, on a phone
call on the first phone call especially,it could take time and everything else.
So one thing that we've done thatthat really shapes the business is always
(33:48):
have that next contact schedulefor, for everybody.
And that can vary.
You know, if you call somebody todayand there's some interest there,
but they're there, you know, there'sno need right now.
So, you say you follow up and say, hey,I'm going to send you some information
and I'll reach back out next week.
You know, just,to make sure you got everything.
So if you have any questionsand kind of go from there.
(34:09):
So that could be the next step.
Sometimes it could be, hey, I'm using xyzfor my media
and I'm extremely happy with everything.
I don't want to switch. I'mnot interested.
You can still have a next point.
You can say,
Chris and I were just talking about thisthe other day too, but you could say,
hey, I get it.
You know, I,I understand that I'd love to be.
I'd love to send you some information.
(34:30):
So just in case things changeor if you ever need to fill in
or there's a service maybe thatthey don't help you with or they can offer
and then you can push thatthat next contact,
you know, three months down the road,six months down the road.
It doesn't have to bein the next couple days.
But I think that's probablythe most important thing,
is just having that consistentfollow through.
Because if you call 100 people todayand they, you know, let's say
(34:53):
most of them say no,
and that's the last contactyou have with them,
you're not going to get those people.
But if you continue to follow up,you know, maybe you convert
2% right off the bat,you know, out of 100 phone calls
and you get two new clients, that's great.
But then the other 98,if you keep that conversation
going over the next year,you might close 50 of them.
You know, it's just it's justa consistency game on that side of things.
(35:16):
Right.
Staying consistent with the touch pointsbut mixing up the methods
of those touch pointsI would say you just want to
you want to be consistentwithout being annoying.
That's that's the line that you wantto bounce on that kind of thing.
So I'm not saying call them every dayfor the next two weeks and be like,
what about now?
What about yeah,
you know, it's just to have that nextstep out there and use judgment.
(35:36):
You know, when you talk to somebody,you get an idea of what
the appropriate follow up will be, becauseyou don't want it to be too far out,
but you don't want it to be too sooneither, or too common.
So you kind ofhave to use your judgment on that.
And I think that's somethingthat kind of sharpens as you go.
You get a little bit more of a, senseon that
as far as when the next stepwould be the most appropriate,
(35:58):
having some sort of system in placeto, to help you keep track of those,
those follow ups is, is really agood idea, you know, some sort of CRM or,
or something where it's the termI heard early in
my career was like a tickler file.
So, you know, every day
you're bringing up a new fileand what do I have to do today?
And, and setting that ahead of timeso that you're staying.
(36:19):
Yeah. Consistent with, with the contacts.
I can't help but think of mixing up themethods of reaching out to people as well.
From a videographer standpoint,one of the things that we do is
no shot that we
take should be the same type of shotback to back.
Like, say, we're doing a push.
Okay, I'm going out of sales modenow in the videographer mode,
(36:42):
if if we have a push into a room,we shouldn't have two pushes in a row.
You know, just keep things fresh,keep things, you
know, different and perspectives changing.
And it keeps the personengaged and interested.
So yeah, maybe it's the Instagram method.
Maybe it's an email, maybe it's a phonecall, maybe it's a coffee invite mix up
(37:04):
and just be consistent in in the contacts.
But be present in your marketand be consistent in your market.
And listen to what the clients say to you.
You know, that's that's one thing.
Yeah. For example, we get this a lot.
You'll call somebody, they don't answer,it goes to voicemail
and it says, hey, for a faster response,text me. Yes.
They just gave you permission to text him.
(37:26):
And they just said,
you know, it's better for me if you textme, you know, on that side of things.
So, so also do that like we we got out,you know, some some organizations they're,
they're kind of driven as far as likeyou must do, you know 50 calls of that.
You must do this and this and this.
We've gotten out of that and we've,we've kind of leaned into our people
strengths, you know, on what they do best,what they're what they're,
(37:47):
you know, comfortable with.And there's still some requirements.
It's not the wild, wild Weston that side of things, but it is,
it is something that you'll bea lot more effective on because,
you know, in past experiencesI've been in that, that see,
and it's like, hey, I know if I textso-and-so, I'll get a response,
but I have to get these 50 callsin, so I'm going to call them instead.
(38:08):
And so you're basically doing an activityjust to do an activity and not actually
intentionally doing somethingthat's going to bring value to them.
And then also yourself.
Chris, you smirked a little. There.
Well, I just yeah.
So, I've seen I've seen businesseswhere it is like Steve
said, it's basicallylike you have these these activities
(38:29):
and that goes back to the like, like 1970sera activity based management.
Or it's like for every 100 calls you get,you're going to get ten appointments.
For every ten appointment, you'regoing to get two sales and and so make 200
appointments, you get four salesand they're activities.
They will the only thingthat you can directly control.
So there's some validity to that.
(38:50):
So again that was back in the 70swhen people you know,
you could sell to peoplethe old fashioned term,
but yeah, the, the reality of it is, is I,you know, I say call
because my first point of contacttypically is going to be a phone call.
Because it's just like the phonecall is the the easiest way to
(39:12):
go from A to Z.
And it's such an that like texts
and emails can have breaksand things along those lines.
But to Steve's point,
if somebody says for fast response,text me, they're basically saying,
I want you to text me,don't leave me a voicemail.
So I don't leave them a voicemail.
(39:33):
I send them a text.
So you need to kind of go offpeople strikes and things like that.
But, and then and then. Yeah.
And then I was the, the varying things up,you know, even like I agree with Steve,
very up phone calls, text, emails,
social media, whatever the case may be.
That's great.
And I would, I would definitely shy awaylike Steve talks about emails,
(39:56):
emails are easy, but it's kind of funnybecause I get a lot of emails
and, I open up an email,I say just following up on it.
I stop right there because it's like,so basically you're saying
you sent me an email and I didn't respond,and now you're
just following up on an emailthat I didn't respond to.
And it's like, if you can'tput more effort into just obviously just,
(40:20):
you know,
flinging out hundreds of emails,I'm not going to look at you.
And I literally like,I read that I'm just following up on
and that's as far as I read that email.
So, you know,
you have to utilize themin different ways.
You know, like, if you phone, if you callsomebody, you know, leave a message,
maybe you send them an email,you know, that day or day later
(40:42):
or whatever to kind of say, hey, yeah,I left you a message.
Here's some weather information,whatever the case may be.
Especially with with existing clients,you definitely mix that message up.
You know, it's like,
however often you want to contact them,you know, don't call them every time.
Don't text them all the time,don't email somebody.
But kind of put some variety in thereto, mix it up for sure.
(41:05):
And I think that's that's important too.
Is that outreach regardlesswhether it's call, text, email,
you know, in-person, whatever the case is,I think that one of the big takeaways
for anybody that's that'strying to get sales going in their company
is stop thinking about yourselfand think about them.
So what value can you add to their life?
(41:26):
You know, instead of saying,hey, I want, you know,
I want to meet to discuss these thingsor something like that.
Try, try to flip the script,you know, and saying like, what can I
put in this message or this phone callor whatever the case is like what
focus on the benefitsand the value that come from it
that you can offer themversus asking them to give up their time
(41:48):
for something they don't even knowwhat that means for them at that point.
So if you can, if you can think of that,and it's simple, just kind of kind of
put yourself in thatand that in those shoes, you know,
when you're crafting a messageor something like that,
if I got this message,would I respond to it?
You know, there's athere's a piqued my interest
as I do this and,and if you could say yes.
(42:08):
And that's a strong messageto send out to everybody.
One thing that that I've done,guys that we haven't touched on
and I don't know that I can show anylike hard proof or results of the effect
on the effectiveness of this, butit ties into being genuine with people,
is connecting with clients on social mediaor prospective clients.
(42:30):
And for me, social media.
Yes, it can be a business tool, but
honestly, I'm sharing about stuffthat I'm enjoying personally.
Hobbies or family activities or,you know, things like that,
and just getting to know people's
like, I was going to say real lives.
Business is real life.
But the non-businesspart of their their life, right?
(42:52):
And getting to know them as peopleand leaving a comment or a like
and just showing that you're presentand interested in them as people as well.
And that can help build rapport.
So I'm eventuallymaybe they become a client,
but I'm getting to know them as a personfirst.
Yeah, I think that goes that follows thatthat the process or the thought,
(43:15):
you know, is that they may not have a needwhen you 1st May contact
or they first hear about you, you know,but the more you do that, the more you do.
You know, in businessoutreach and everything.
But even on the social side, you know,personal outreach, if you're following
their business page, congratulate themon a listing, you know, things like that.
The moreyou can stay in it right to their side
(43:37):
and right in front of themon that side of things.
When they then that that switch happensand also they need to meet,
they have a need at that point.
So maybe their, their photographer,you know, that they were using
stop doing itbecause they're doing something else now.
Or they made a mad somehow becausethey didn't show up to an appointment.
You know, all these thingsthat we hear about in in an industry.
But the second that happens,if the first thing they think of is
(44:00):
I need to get a hold of Craig to come outand and do this now, you know, that's
that's the goal.
You know, if you can do thatthen long term
and it's not by long term yourbut your business will benefit.
So much from thatbecause you're going to be
the first person that everybody thinks of.
It's like the real world.
So essentially so, you know,I like that if I think of it
(44:21):
and you're the first person on the list,they're going to go with you a lot more,
you know, likely than the personthat's ten down.
I like that, Steve, real life SEO
that andI would say too, along those lines,
that's also a great toolwith regards to existing clients.
Because the reality of it is, you know,
(44:43):
if if people are like,all I care about is price
or all I care about is this orall I care about is that then someone's
going to come along and be like, okay,I can I can be cheaper than this guy.
Right?
But when you build that relationship, and,
you know, you get to know these peopleand these people
genuinely feel like, you have their back.
(45:06):
That's going to change things, and that'sgoing to make it to the point where,
someone might come along and say, hey,I'll give you this media for $50 less.
And so like, yeah, but I like Chris,I don't know if I like you.
And so that, that, you know, that money.
Now there's there are some rumorsout there, you know, that that are $50.
(45:26):
Oh, great.
And you know, againnow it's down to the bottom.
But but I wouldI would definitely say like
I use relationship selling.
And actuallySteve mentioned this a while ago.
But you know, somebody somebodyyou call it somebody and they're like,
you know,I use this competitor and I love them.
And I've been with them for five yearsand and I'm never going to go anywhere.
(45:47):
My typical response is Iyou know, I respect that.
Because in all honesty, you know,I know we're talking to a lot of people
that might actually be, you know,both the salesperson and the photographer.
I'm not I don't do
the only thing I do in this companyis I build relationships with my clients.
And so I literally will say that to peopleI like, like my my sole responsibility
(46:08):
is building that relationship.
So I, I respect a solid relationship.
And then that's where, you know,like he mentioned before again,
you know, let me let me be your fallback
if they go on vacation,if they can't handle something, whatever.
But it's the same way if somebodyif your competitors call your clients up,
and they reach out your clients,very likely if you've built that
(46:30):
relationship, your clientsare going to say that to your competitors.
They're going to say, yeah, we usewow video tours
And and I love them,and I'm never going to go anywhere
because of the relationship,not necessarily because,
you know, okay,I can give you a free shoot.
You know, and then all of a sudden that,
you know, they're like, well, yeah,you can give me that free shoot, but,
(46:52):
I, I'm, I still work with so-and-so, so,so that,
has a limited value to it.
If you've built that relationship andthat relationship is true, it's excellent.
Excellent, guys.
Thank you so much. I thank you.
I think that, gives a good summaryof how how you can develop
(47:12):
business without selling.
And just appreciate the real lifeexamples.
So, yeah, our guests again, Steve Musserand Chris Voge from Wow video tours.
Gentlemen. Appreciate you.
Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
All right.
Well, guys,hopefully you found some value in that.
If you have some, some tips and tricksand things that have worked
(47:33):
well in your business,feel free to leave it in a comment.
Here on the YouTube channel.
Or you can drop us an email as well.Spiro.
Hello@spiro.mediaand we would love to hear from you.
So, yeah, just real life examples
of how you can sell without sellingand that it works.
People buy from peoplethey know, like and trust
(47:54):
and just takes timeto develop those relationships.
But that's what it's all about.
So make sure you take some time this weekto be thankful for the blessings.
Make sure you take some time to breathe.
That's what Spiro means breath.
And next week we're going to have,Shannon Landers on from Spiro.
Going over the, third quarter,
review and also a fourth quarter forecast.
(48:17):
So that's coming up next week.
Appreciate you.
Have a fantastic week. Take care.
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
So when they hear thatthey have a negative, you know,
thought process on that, they,they don't want to be sold to
they don't want to sell to others.
But if you take yourself out of thatextreme mentality on that side of things
into more of the consultative sellingthen one, your fears are going to go away.
(00:34):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,
managing your real estate, photographyand videography business.
Spiro is a software platform.
It's designed to help you manageand run your day to day real estate
media business and ultimatelyreally help it to scale up as well.
I'm Craig Magrum,thanks for joining us this week.
And this week we do not haveour fearless leader, Todd Kivimaki.
(00:58):
But we do have two other, faces thatyou have seen before and or heard before.
If you're listening to the audio podcast,and I'll introduce them in just a second.
We got a great topic for you this week.
In some some voices of experienceto share with you on this topic.
But before we dive in,just want to give you a quick update
on the Spiro Sync conferencethat is coming up in January.
(01:22):
We still have room.
For you to attend. Only 150 spots total.
The VIP experience has already that
that sold out almost immediately,but we still have some room for you.
To come and join us in Dayton, Ohio.
And, you can find out moreby going to Spiro.media.
And in the top nav bar thereis, Spiro Sync 26, link that you can click
(01:45):
to find out more.
And we'd love to to join,have you join us and meet us in person. So
that's really all we've
got in terms of, Spiro updates this week.
Todd will be off this week and next weekand then be rejoining us.
And we're heading into Vegas and the REPPconference and the PMRE Conference.
Lots of great, timesto get together and exchange ideas.
(02:07):
So all right,that's going to do it for announcements.
Let me introduce our guests.
Slash co-host Steve Musser.
VP of sales marketing.
Did I get the the title right?
Not that you care about title Steve
The business card says director.
Director. Hang by.
But you can call mewhatever you want to
of Wow video tours.And also Chris Voge.
(02:31):
He is our sales manager, businessdevelopment manager for Wow Video Tours.
Steven, Chris, thanks for joining me.
Joining me this week. Yeah, thanks Craig.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, one and whenever the three of usget in a room, the topic is sales. And,
I'm constantly seeing
(02:51):
questions in Facebookgroups, related real estate media
about different sales techniquesand how to, you know, develop
your business and how to approach peopleand get your business running.
And there's a lot of anxiety around thesubject of sales and business development.
And so we wanted to pick your your brain.
And in the topic,the way we're kind of kind of couch,
(03:15):
this is not selling sells.
The overall agreement disagreement.
What what do you think Steve.
Yeah. No I, I agree 100%.
So sales I think is one of those thingsthat when a lot of people hear it, they,
they either if you're not in sales,you kind of cringe, you know, or you're
(03:38):
if you're in one of those positionsthat's kind of,
tiptoeing in and out of sales,you kind of cringe on that side of things.
So I know, I know,
it's something that, can be a little bitintimidating on that side of things,
but I, I agree with that because you don'thave to approach it from a,
your stereotypical like used carsalesman approach to be in sales.
(03:59):
You know, anything that you're doingthat, build relationships, connect
with people, get them what they need,and it's going to further their business.
That is sales.
So not selling is the sales, right?
Chris, your thoughts overall,what do you think of
when you hear the word sales? Yeah.
It's interesting because, you know, we hadwe were actually meeting
(04:19):
with a photographer earlier in this weekand he was so nice.
Like, I don't like selling out.I don't like getting out there.
And and, you know, hehe had the old traditional,
the, that hard core, you know,what you see on the movies kind of pitch,
man sort of thing, where you trick peopleand stuff like that. And,
(04:39):
I don't like that either, you know?
So basically we had to explain to himthat there's that, that the term
selling is,is can have different meanings and,
and that hard, close, trick,you know, like,
be like and, and, and,you know, this crazy verbiage and stuff
like that,
especially in this businessbecause you're talking
to other salespeople,it just doesn't work.
(05:00):
So you have to gowith a different approach for sure.
Right?
So let's let's dive into thata little bit, a little bit deeper.
I like looking at this from,from a different perspective.
So Steve, obviouslywe've given the overall view of sales, but
as a business owner, you know, obviously
you're you're leading from a standpointof sales and marketing at
Wow video tours.
(05:22):
Your experiencekind of like what Chris just referenced in
speaking to another business owner.
What has your perceptionbeen from business owners
when when you're talking with them,seeing them start their own business?
What do
owners usually think ofwhen they think of sales?
Yeah, I mean, think of itfrom, from any business owner or,
(05:45):
you know,if you've ever had, yourself in that seat,
you know, one thing that, that I thinkpeople think of is, is they're contacted,
you know, 5 or 10, 20 times a week, fromdifferent people saying by this, by this,
by this, and so in their head, that's whatthey're thinking, the sales approaches.
And so they don't like being sold to,they have to sell to their clients,
(06:08):
but they don't want to be that personthat's been reaching out to them
and harassing them,trying to get them to buy whatever service
or whateverthe case would be on that side of that.
And so I think, I think you have to,to kind of disconnect there, you know,
as a business ownerand just understand that
when we talk about selling,it's basically,
you know, boil it down to the basics,is, is you have a in demand service that
(06:32):
they need,and you just need to connect them
to the right services and productsand everything under that umbrella
to help them advance their business.
So if you're doing that,you are selling without any of the,
the stigma behindselling on that side of things.
Chris, when when you've talked to people,
that are purchasing things,
(06:56):
do you have any storiesor things that you've experienced or run
into out, out in the marketplace of peoplethat are being sold or what?
What's the consumer view of salesfrom your your perspective?
Well,I mean, I can give you my perspective,
you know, so, yeah, I've been in,so many sales training classes.
(07:16):
Yeah, I've been selling for,we'll call it 30 years now.
And, I've been in so many training classesand some of these in seminars
and things like that.
And, and you go to these thingsand it'll be like, you know, these, these,
these trainers will say, write this downand say this exactly this way.
And, and I'm just like,no, I'm not going to do that.
(07:37):
But then it's always funnywhen I get when I get a phone call,
you know, from
obviously like a telemarketeror something like that.
And I hear them using techniques,it's like,
yeah, I was taught that technique too,and I it's just like, let me tell you.
And I just run circles around it, like,
I want to get to the pointwhere I play games with them
(07:57):
because it's just like,yeah, this, this stuff is
it doesn't work, you know,be honest, just be straightforward.
And when you come in,you're hitting me with the sales pitch.
People feel that. People know that.
And the first thing it does,it just makes it just pushes you
that it makes them want to push you awayand and turns them off.
(08:18):
And it's just not not the right way to go.
You know, you got to be genuine.
And then the typical we'll call
car salesman, the used car salesman,that's what everybody talks about.
That typical person is just ever likethey're hated for a reason.
You know that.
That's the stereotype is is therefor a reason and you just can't do it.
(08:41):
So it's just it's not the way to go.
Right? Right.
I was going to ask, you know what?
What do you think?People don't like being sold.
Can I get into the psychology?
But I think it's kind of self-evident.
Steve. What? Wouldn't you agree?
It's just. Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think
I think, you know, from my perspective,you know, same same as Chris.
You know, I've been in sales my, my entirelife, you know, in different aspects.
(09:04):
I've been lucky enough to be in
consultative selling, which matches upto what Chris and I believe in.
And what our philosophy is, is
just you build a relationship,you help people out and everything.
The sales take care of themselves
because you're you're doing everythingthe right way
and getting them what they needand everything else.
The flip side of that is,is the high pressure tactics, too,
where you know, if you don't,
(09:25):
if you don't buy from me,you're making a huge mistake.
You know, you need to do this,you need to do that.
And so,unfortunately, that side of the sales
is why people associate with itis that, you know, psychologically.
So when they hear thatthey have a negative, you know,
thought process on that, they,they don't want to be sold to
they don't want to sell to others.
But if you take yourself out of thatextreme mentality on that side of things
(09:48):
into more of the consultative sellingthen one, your fears are going to go away.
You're not going to have to worry about,oh, I have to sell.
You're going to be like,oh, I get to talk to people.
I get to build relationships,I get to do all this.
And then youryour clients are also going to react to
it much more positivelybecause it's not a sales call.
It's a call from my, my friendChris that's helping me out,
(10:10):
you know, on this listing or whateverthe case is.
So that'sI think the biggest thing is, is break
that break that mentalitythat it has to be
the extreme side of the sales,and it starts to open up a lot of doors.
Chris, would you agree or disagree
that even even in the consultativetype of approach, there's still some,
(10:33):
quote unquote,like traditional or stereotypical sales
things that you have to do,like say cold calling,
or following up on a referralwith somebody you haven't talked to.
Is that fair to say that?
Yeah, I think it's fair to say,
I mean, because in this business,you know, I mean, you
I guess you could never coldcall, but, then, you know, you
(10:55):
then you're just, you know,you're not really selling in any way.
You're hoping that people referyou and things on those lines.
But that being said, though, two, he can
you can still coldcall people and be genuine.
And, and and then
you just come across less like, like the,like Steve
(11:16):
said, the, the actual sales personthat you come across is somebody,
you know, reaching out, like,you know, trying to win your business.
But so yeah, you,you it's it's a fine line.
You, you walk where you
I think the key is being genuine.
If you are who you areand you just kind of going in there
and and open and honest, not not trying tobe sly or anything like that.
(11:41):
You can still do
these, you know, these sales things, like,you need to follow up with people.
You need to check in, you need to
cold call, warm call, whatever,whatever it might be.
But you can do it in a wayto where you're it's less,
offensive and less, slimyfor for people to call.
I like that word slimy.
(12:02):
Yeah. It's, Yeah.
So most of us,I don't think, want to be slimy.
You know, I, I, you know,I work with both of you, obviously is
doing business development in the marketthat I'm in, and and
I don't want my reputation to bethe slimy, slick sales guy.
Right.
You know, we want to be real with people
(12:22):
and we want towe want to help and serve people.
And I really believe
when I first got into this,I literally prayed a prayer of like, God,
would you give me somethingI can, I can sell that is of true value
to somebody like thisreally will help somebody.
And at least from my perspective,I feel like I can't really sell something
(12:43):
with a clear conscienceunless I truly believe that
what I'm sellingis really going to serve somebody well.
And when you when you truly believe that,
then you can come throughas an authentic person in genuine
and not the slick, slimytype of personality where, yeah, you're
(13:03):
trying to sell a used lemon of a car
or something like that.
Steve, I kind of want to.
I like top three listsor like three points of action.
So we've we've kind of gonethrough that just, you know, the overall,
psychology of selling, but it's notselling because not selling sells.
(13:24):
That's,that's the overall arching theme here.
So can you share your top three ways
that you sell by not selling a story?
You know, a certain approach.
Top three thingsjust kind of step us through.
And then Chris will have you do the same.
Yeah. No.
So so throughout my career,like I said, I've been and
(13:46):
and the consultative sellingyou know, side of sales.
And so I appreciate that.
And it's helped me.
Everybody has a little bit differentmethod to get there.
You know I,I still works with a lot of companies
that still have their salesprocess, their acronyms.
They're you know, you got to do this, thisand this and it's all true.
But it all I don't really comes down tois is start the relationship.
(14:08):
You know.
So even if you're doing a cold callintroduce yourself.
Let them know who you are.
Be genuine with itso you don't have to worry about,
you know, it's like, hey,what can we get you on the books today?
You know, that's not how you really know.
If you're not trying to get that way.
So so get that introduction done, youknow, start building that relationship.
I think that number twowould be uncover the needs.
(14:30):
So understand where they're at nowand what their needs are.
So obviously in our, in our industry,either they're real estate
agentsor brokers is who we're talking about.
So their needs, you know, you canoversimplify and say real estate media.
But everybody's a little bit different.
You know, maybe
maybethey already have a partner in place.
So maybe their need is not youat that moment, but you can still kind of
(14:53):
talk to that and understandwhat they need at that moment
and then try to move to step three,
which is essentially match upwhat you're offering.
That solves the problem of their needs.
So, you know, if they have, a good examplewe always use
is, is a lot of times on cold calls,we'll call, we'll call, we'll reach out
to an agent and say, you know, hey,I'm Stive with Wow video tours,
(15:15):
you know, we do the real estate mediain the, in the market,
you know,and just wanted to introduce myself
and do you mind me asking you,who do you currently use for your media?
And so in that situation,you started the introduction.
You're getting to the questionin a probing to understand
like what their needs are.
And so they may spin out,you know, it's like, hey, I have my
you know, we hear a lot.
(15:35):
You know, my familymember does my media or the brokers
I work forhas already has somebody in place.
And so their needs right nowmight not be for you.
So you can still sell to them,but and build that relationship,
but just kind of start the conversationand say, hey, you know, I understand,
you know, Chris, Chris,I think he's the one that taught me this.
(15:56):
I just kind of go into you, you know,I don't want to step on toes.
You know, relationships are keyin our business, you know?
So that's that's important to me to,
and then keep asking the
questions, you know, and just kind of see,
you have a solution alreadyfor your needs,
but isn't a total solution, you know, arethey always available?
Do they do all the servicesyou need? Do they?
(16:16):
If you can ask those questions,all you're trying to do
is find out what those needs areand what they still have a a hole,
you know, in their business to try to fill
and then introduce, you know,your solutions to those problems.
And, and,
you know, it's not always going to bean instant close by if you follow
kind of those three steps and that'sthe oversimplification of the process.
(16:37):
But, will get you to where you need to be,you know, and sometimes that's day
one that you start, you know,
that that relationshipand possibly even sell them right there.
It may be, you know,two years down the road when finally,
you know, something switches, you know,and then they have
that need at that momentand they're going to think of you.
So that's kind of, the oversimplifiedsteps on that side of things.
(17:00):
I was youyou touched on the number one question
I had is, is this all in the first callthat you're doing?
You know, that first cold call,
are you ask, trying to uncoverthe needs immediately there?
Or are you asking for an appointmentto meet with, in person
to talk through those things?
What what what is worked best for you?
I think I think some of it depends,you know,
(17:22):
on who the person is, how the conversationgoes, things along those lines.
But I think it's an opportunityon the first call
to kind of start getting some of thosethose needs uncovered,
figure out where they're currently at,you know, what their
what their current solutions are,if it's the best solution for them.
All of that stuff,it's going to it's going to vary.
You know, it'snot a it's not a silver bullet.
(17:43):
Sometimes you're doing thatright on the phone.
Sometimes, you know,if you especially if you know the person,
but you haven't had a chance to connect
with them on a business levelat that point,
and, you know, they're more personalor they want to sit down and discuss.
You can offer that.
So you kind of carry that,and some of that conversation
will kind of dictatewhere that goes to you.
You know, if they're if they're like,hey, it's not a great time right now.
(18:06):
You know, you can follow up with,you know, hey, can we meet in person?
Can I stop in, can I buy you lunch?Can I get a coffee?
You know thatthere's a lot of avenues there.
So it could be on that initial call,but that might just be step one.
And then you continue on andand even that to get, good conversation
where you start getting more of thatuncovered, that might be, you know,
a month, six months, a year down the roaduntil you can get to that point.
(18:29):
But you start with oneand kind of work through.
And that timeline is going to varya little bit by if you can do those,
then then your business is going to showthe benefit of that.
Right?
So you've kind of mentionedin passing a couple of times
this isn't necessarilyan immediate response type of approach.
It can take timeand we need to be patient with that.
(18:52):
Yes. Be patient.
You know, that's ifif you go after that hard close like Chris
kind of alluded to earlier, is that one,it's going to typically turn them away.
You know, it's going to be like okaynow in their head they're going to think,
how quick can I get off this phone calland never talk to this person again?
You know?
And that's like so so be using Chris'sword.
(19:15):
Be genuine.
You know, when you're talking
to the person, startthat, start that relationship off.
It may be just that.
It may be like,hey, I'm Steve with wow video tours,
you know,
and that might be,
you know,
outside of those first couple sentencesthat your conversation might fade
out right there.
By then, just put a pin in it, scheduleyour next activity.
So we're going to follow up in acouple days a week, whatever the case is,
(19:37):
you know,trying to catch them at a better time
or get a better conversationgoing, things like that,
and then just continue the processon that next step.
Excellent. Chris, how about you?
What what are your topthree ways of selling without selling been
throughout your career and any storiesyou have that you know feel free to share?
Sure.
I think I think a lot of what you know,like Steve and I have very similar
(20:01):
philosophies and similar,you know, like the way we approach things,
I think it's more like to, to feed offof what he's kind of talking about.
There's a few caveats to keep in mind.
First of all, when I do call people, youknow, I actually use the same question.
But I start the first questionI asked them, and this is
this is a risky one in some ways is first,like so I'll call them, say, hey,
(20:23):
this is Chris with Wow Video Tours.
Did I catch you at a good time.
Now, the reason it's risky is becausesomebody could just lie and say no, no.
And then the and then you say, whenwould be a better time to call you back?
And then they don't answer.
And that's, that's always a risky you do.
But if you call somebodyand they are in the middle of something
(20:44):
and then you just go into your agenda,
they're going to get angry,they're going to kick you.
And then that's our thing.
So I genuinely ask that.
And usually what I'll getand you can even hear in their voice,
you can hear like, well, I have a second.
Like, what do you want, man?
You know, like they justthey're waiting for it to come and
and so then, then they go into,you know, like, hey, I just
(21:06):
I wanted to reach out to you,you know, you know, I noticed
that a lot of times I notice you'rea major player in the real estate market.
I just want to ask you,who do you use for in real estate media
and then let them go from there?
The key
to it is don't go into it with an agendabecause you asked about,
like, do you close, you know, on the samecall, don't go into with an agenda.
(21:29):
Don't go in there like I'm going to sellthat this product and this product
and this product because those productsmay not mean a thing to that person.
So you go into it asking questionsand getting to understand
what their needs are.
And then what you do is you fit base.
They say, these are my needs.
And you say, okay, I can meet those needsor I can't meet those needs
(21:52):
because that might also be the case.
They may be like, I want you to be able to
if I call you up, I want you to be ableto go shoot in an hour at this house.
And if you can't do that,then that might not be the client for you.
And, you know,
so you just you have to figure out, like,what is this person's needs?
Can I meet those needs?
Now let me tell that personhow I can meet those needs.
(22:14):
As far as
asking the question with regards to,
do you try and set up a meeting,that sort of thing?
I personally have always been,
I'm going to go until you stop me.
So I spent 20 years selling new homes,and I.
I sold a lot of homes.
People walked in the door
(22:35):
and they walked out the door,having bought a new home that day.
Now, it took hours to do this,but my philosophy was always,
I'm going to keep going until you stop me.
And so in this business, it'sthe same thing.
I keep asking questions.
I get to know what they're looking for,what it is, and then,
and then I kind of say, you know, hey,yeah, we, you know, we've got this
(22:57):
product, we've got this product, you know,like, everything you're looking for.
I can take care of that.
And then,you know, I may ask you a question.
Do you have a coming out that we could,that we can take care of
for you, helpyou with, show you what we can do?
And if they do, and, then
my next question is going to be, well,you know, let me let me do this.
(23:17):
Let me get you on the system.
Let's let's get you in.
Let's get it to get, an appointment set upand let's see if we can get it done.
And again, if theyif they'll let me do that, I will do that.
I will follow all the way through.
Now, that's the reality of itis the odds of catching somebody
who who needs, who needs, doesn't likewho they're working with, needs to find
(23:38):
somebody and has a listingready to go are kind of low.
So you're going to get stoppedat some point in time.
But again,
you just you just think, okay, so yes,they're they're open to talk and what this
but no, they don't have a listing.
And so then, you know, thenyou kind of go, okay, what's my fallback.
Well, so I can't,I can't, quote, sell them a,
(24:01):
an appointment to that,you know, an actual,
where we go out and capture the media.
What I'll do that is I'll say, you know,you know, do you have anything coming up?
And, and so let's saythat I asked a question.
You have me coming up,we can help you with,
and they may say like, nothing rightnow, but,
you know, at the end of October,early November, I've got a house
(24:22):
that's going to go on the marketthat I'm going to be listing.
And so it's, you know, at that point thatwhat I would say is like, okay, great.
Well, let me do this.Let me send you some information.
And then let me, I'll, I'll touch base.
You know, I'll touch base here.
It's to today is, you know, October 17thand they're saying the end of October,
early November.
(24:44):
So I'll touch baselike in a week or ten days
and, just see how that's coming along.
And I'd love to.
I'd love to go, you know, capture thathome for you to show you what we can do.
And so you're getting themto verbally commit
to, like, yeah,I'll let you guys have a shot on that.
And then, you know,you just kind of follow up, but,
you know, again that the key toit is asking the questions,
(25:08):
and finding, you know,because like I said, if you're like,
we have these great agent on camera videosand, you know,
you would just love them and they're like,
I will never in a million yearsget in front of a camera body.
You're not going to that has zero value.
You just pitch somethingthat they hate that maybe.
So you have to know what they want.
(25:28):
What they what they're meaning.
And then figure out what you havefits their needs.
That's.
And, you know, can I make a quick pointon top of that too?
Yeah. Yeah.
Just just for anybody listeningbecause I think, one thing that Chris
and I probably have both experienced over
our careers is, is I've been through salestrainings to where they say,
you know, with what Chris just said, likewhen you call someone, say, did I catch
(25:50):
you had a good time.
But they that's like not in their modelor like you never do that
because you're giving themand you're doing this.
So just just keep an open mindwhen you're looking out there,
you know, hopefully you're listeningto this podcast, get some some advice
on, you know, some selling techniquesand everything for your clients.
If you're looking elsewhere, just keepthat in mind is that there are different
models out there for sales.
(26:13):
So that doesn't
mean that that one is is right.
I think that our method fits our industrya lot better than the other methods,
because the high pressure salesis, is good for certain things, you know,
and that's not something that,
you know, me personallyor I think any of us,
but having an interestin being in that area.
But I just wanted to address thatbecause I've had people ask that before.
(26:35):
It's just like, well, aren'tyou giving them an option to say no?
And it's like, yeah, now you know,
and in some cases that's not a bad thing.
So I just wanted to point that out
just in casethere's some, some confusion out there.
That's a questionI've gotten a couple times.
Well, it ties directly into a phrase.
I might have heard this from one of you,
but the phrase is thisyou can't sell a salesperson.
(26:59):
And that's who our clients are.
They're salespeople.
Now, I said that to one realtor,and if you actually got
a little offended, he's like,I am not a salesperson, I am a consultant.
I'm like,
okay, that's that's fair because that'swhat we're trying to present ourselves,
as, you know, also isthat we're not trying to sell you.
We're trying to be part of your teamand consult with you and,
(27:22):
you know, find the right toolsfor what you're trying to accomplish.
So I'm like, okay, thatthat's that's fair.
But I, I've actually said that and sharedthat in presentations,
you know, brokerage presentationsbefore where I just tell them, look,
I can tell you what we do,
but I'm not going to try and sell youbecause I can't sell a salesperson.
And nine times out of ten,
(27:42):
I usually get some laughs out of thatbecause they get it right.
We're we're all in the same field
of trying to find solutionsto people's needs.
And yeah, there are different techniquesand methods and whatnot, but
I find trying to just,
you know, have some levity
and have some fun with it and be realwith people kind of breaks that ice.
(28:03):
And it's like, okay, yeah,we all know what we're doing here.
Yeah.
I just that made me think of that phrase.
I would even take it a step further,because I think you can, in theory,
you know, you can say, sell a salesperson.
I think you can't trick a salesperson.Yeah.
Knowing that they're being sold to,you know, on that side of the fence.
(28:25):
But there are times,you know, that I get phone calls
all the time, you know, for eitherwithin the business or personal,
you know, where someone's, like,trying to sell you whatever it is.
And I will tell you, there's timeswhere, you know,
I know they're selling to me,but there's some times
where I shut down because it's like, hey,you know,
you're not you're not approaching thisin the right way.
(28:46):
And there's other times where they,they kind of
bring me in and,you know, it's like, oh, okay.
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to it because.
Because, I mean, you're giving me value.
You're doing what?
You know, you'retrying to figure out worth what you have.
If it's a solution for what I need,just like we do with our clients.
So I've, I've bought things several timesbefore because I had an open mind
and that they approached me in a good way,and it was actually a good fit for,
(29:08):
for something for me.
So I think that's just something to keepin mind too, is, is, you know, sales.
I know that that terminologygets thrown around
and people have a negative stigma with it,but it's actually a good thing,
you know,if you have the right, the right workflow,
not only for usbut for our clients, it's a good thing.
Chris, would you have any advicefor somebody
you know, see, somebodyis an introverted type of personality.
(29:31):
And they really they get a lot of anxietyover this whole subject of sales.
They love what they do.
They love, you know, the real estate mediathat they're shooting.
And they really dowant to see their business grow.
But do you have any practical tipsfor like, say, an introverted personality
on on how they get approachesto get over that anxiety?
Yeah.
I mean, first of all, I don't knowif you're ever going to get get over it.
(29:53):
You have to power through it.
Okay. Tell you the truth.
I mean, there's times where I make itlike we're.
I'll make phone calls and I get nervous.
And and again, like you.
Chris.
Yeah. Yeah.You get nervous? Yeah. For sure.
You know, it's like,
okay,I gotta make this, and I have to like,
I have just get out of my heada little bit.
But then.
But the reality of it is the big thingI and that I,
(30:14):
I like to approach on something like thatis, is less along the lines of like,
Will you get rejectedbecause you're going,
and it's more alongthe lines of two things.
One, that rejection,unless you do something, you know,
crazy that rejection is not about you,it's about their needs.
And so they don't need you right nowso you have a chance of getting rejected.
(30:37):
But the biggest thing is, isif you don't make that phone call,
what do you gainby not making that phone call?
You gain nothing.
If you make that phone call and you fail,
what do you gain?
You gain nothing.So you lost nothing as well.
So making the phone call givesyou the chance to win that opportunity.
(31:00):
Not making the phone call.
Get guarantees you will not.
So the worst casescenario is if you're making a phone call
and you strike out, you lostabsolutely nothing.
You know, other than
30s of your time, two minutes of yourtime, you know, that sort of thing.
So I would just go into what thatattitude, like, what do I have to lose?
(31:22):
I have to lose that,
and then understandthat if they do turn you
down, it's,it's more their situation less you,
and then finally understandthat this business is a numbers game.
Okay?
Because obviously, you know,you look at like you look at what we do,
you know, market share.
(31:42):
I mean, there's and some of the workswhere you're looking at,
you know, if we were looking at numbersyesterday, Steve and I were and,
you know, my market,
in nine months,there were 30,000 listings.
So I was kind of like,I can't shoot all 30,000 list.
And so, you know, what if I don'tif I don't, if I strike out
(32:02):
with this person, there's plenty of other,agents out there that I can click with
or find that has a need or whateverthe case may be, and I'll find them.
There's plenty to go around.
It's fine. And just.
You just just keep trying.
Keep plugging along.
Steve something Chris
and he mentioned phone call specifically.
(32:24):
What what are your thoughts on phone calls
versus, say, emails or,
other digital waysof reaching out to people?
Is there one
that's better than the other, oris it more of a personality type of thing?
I, I think all of them are important.
Because if you do all phone calls,then you're not going to be
(32:45):
as effective as you wereif you did a mix of other, other things.
Same thing with emailor anything like that.
So I don't think it's a, you know,one size fits all on that side of
a side of the, the equation.
I do think that in general, though,you don't want to fall back
to doing the emailsbecause it's an easier,
no contact wayand and get a hold of people. Yeah.
(33:05):
The email should supplement
everything else that you're doingand not be, you know, a dedicated.
That's a trapthat I think some people fall into.
It's like, hey, I'm nervous
to pick up the call at the phoneand I call this person,
so I'm going to send an email,you know, so.
Right.Don't don't go into it with that approach.
But you also can't just do one thingand, and expect to get the same results
(33:26):
as having a variety of contacts out therebecause our our method,
what's brought usthe most success is just being consistent.
Is the biggest thing.
So like Chris said, you're not going towin every, every person on, on, on a phone
call on the first phone call especially,it could take time and everything else.
So one thing that we've done thatthat really shapes the business is always
(33:48):
have that next contact schedulefor, for everybody.
And that can vary.
You know, if you call somebody todayand there's some interest there,
but they're there, you know, there'sno need right now.
So, you say you follow up and say, hey,I'm going to send you some information
and I'll reach back out next week.
You know, just,to make sure you got everything.
So if you have any questionsand kind of go from there.
(34:09):
So that could be the next step.
Sometimes it could be, hey, I'm using xyzfor my media
and I'm extremely happy with everything.
I don't want to switch. I'mnot interested.
You can still have a next point.
You can say,
Chris and I were just talking about thisthe other day too, but you could say,
hey, I get it.
You know, I,I understand that I'd love to be.
I'd love to send you some information.
(34:30):
So just in case things changeor if you ever need to fill in
or there's a service maybe thatthey don't help you with or they can offer
and then you can push thatthat next contact,
you know, three months down the road,six months down the road.
It doesn't have to bein the next couple days.
But I think that's probablythe most important thing,
is just having that consistentfollow through.
Because if you call 100 people todayand they, you know, let's say
(34:53):
most of them say no,
and that's the last contactyou have with them,
you're not going to get those people.
But if you continue to follow up,you know, maybe you convert
2% right off the bat,you know, out of 100 phone calls
and you get two new clients, that's great.
But then the other 98,if you keep that conversation
going over the next year,you might close 50 of them.
You know, it's just it's justa consistency game on that side of things.
(35:16):
Right.
Staying consistent with the touch pointsbut mixing up the methods
of those touch pointsI would say you just want to
you want to be consistentwithout being annoying.
That's that's the line that you wantto bounce on that kind of thing.
So I'm not saying call them every dayfor the next two weeks and be like,
what about now?
What about yeah,
you know, it's just to have that nextstep out there and use judgment.
(35:36):
You know, when you talk to somebody,you get an idea of what
the appropriate follow up will be, becauseyou don't want it to be too far out,
but you don't want it to be too sooneither, or too common.
So you kind ofhave to use your judgment on that.
And I think that's somethingthat kind of sharpens as you go.
You get a little bit more of a, senseon that
as far as when the next stepwould be the most appropriate,
(35:58):
having some sort of system in placeto, to help you keep track of those,
those follow ups is, is really agood idea, you know, some sort of CRM or,
or something where it's the termI heard early in
my career was like a tickler file.
So, you know, every day
you're bringing up a new fileand what do I have to do today?
And, and setting that ahead of timeso that you're staying.
(36:19):
Yeah. Consistent with, with the contacts.
I can't help but think of mixing up themethods of reaching out to people as well.
From a videographer standpoint,one of the things that we do is
no shot that we
take should be the same type of shotback to back.
Like, say, we're doing a push.
Okay, I'm going out of sales modenow in the videographer mode,
(36:42):
if if we have a push into a room,we shouldn't have two pushes in a row.
You know, just keep things fresh,keep things, you
know, different and perspectives changing.
And it keeps the personengaged and interested.
So yeah, maybe it's the Instagram method.
Maybe it's an email, maybe it's a phonecall, maybe it's a coffee invite mix up
(37:04):
and just be consistent in in the contacts.
But be present in your marketand be consistent in your market.
And listen to what the clients say to you.
You know, that's that's one thing.
Yeah. For example, we get this a lot.
You'll call somebody, they don't answer,it goes to voicemail
and it says, hey, for a faster response,text me. Yes.
They just gave you permission to text him.
(37:26):
And they just said,
you know, it's better for me if you textme, you know, on that side of things.
So, so also do that like we we got out,you know, some some organizations they're,
they're kind of driven as far as likeyou must do, you know 50 calls of that.
You must do this and this and this.
We've gotten out of that and we've,we've kind of leaned into our people
strengths, you know, on what they do best,what they're what they're,
(37:47):
you know, comfortable with.And there's still some requirements.
It's not the wild, wild Weston that side of things, but it is,
it is something that you'll bea lot more effective on because,
you know, in past experiencesI've been in that, that see,
and it's like, hey, I know if I textso-and-so, I'll get a response,
but I have to get these 50 callsin, so I'm going to call them instead.
(38:08):
And so you're basically doing an activityjust to do an activity and not actually
intentionally doing somethingthat's going to bring value to them.
And then also yourself.
Chris, you smirked a little. There.
Well, I just yeah.
So, I've seen I've seen businesseswhere it is like Steve
said, it's basicallylike you have these these activities
(38:29):
and that goes back to the like, like 1970sera activity based management.
Or it's like for every 100 calls you get,you're going to get ten appointments.
For every ten appointment, you'regoing to get two sales and and so make 200
appointments, you get four salesand they're activities.
They will the only thingthat you can directly control.
So there's some validity to that.
(38:50):
So again that was back in the 70swhen people you know,
you could sell to peoplethe old fashioned term,
but yeah, the, the reality of it is, is I,you know, I say call
because my first point of contacttypically is going to be a phone call.
Because it's just like the phonecall is the the easiest way to
(39:12):
go from A to Z.
And it's such an that like texts
and emails can have breaksand things along those lines.
But to Steve's point,
if somebody says for fast response,text me, they're basically saying,
I want you to text me,don't leave me a voicemail.
So I don't leave them a voicemail.
(39:33):
I send them a text.
So you need to kind of go offpeople strikes and things like that.
But, and then and then. Yeah.
And then I was the, the varying things up,you know, even like I agree with Steve,
very up phone calls, text, emails,
social media, whatever the case may be.
That's great.
And I would, I would definitely shy awaylike Steve talks about emails,
(39:56):
emails are easy, but it's kind of funnybecause I get a lot of emails
and, I open up an email,I say just following up on it.
I stop right there because it's like,so basically you're saying
you sent me an email and I didn't respond,and now you're
just following up on an emailthat I didn't respond to.
And it's like, if you can'tput more effort into just obviously just,
(40:20):
you know,
flinging out hundreds of emails,I'm not going to look at you.
And I literally like,I read that I'm just following up on
and that's as far as I read that email.
So, you know,
you have to utilize themin different ways.
You know, like, if you phone, if you callsomebody, you know, leave a message,
maybe you send them an email,you know, that day or day later
(40:42):
or whatever to kind of say, hey, yeah,I left you a message.
Here's some weather information,whatever the case may be.
Especially with with existing clients,you definitely mix that message up.
You know, it's like,
however often you want to contact them,you know, don't call them every time.
Don't text them all the time,don't email somebody.
But kind of put some variety in thereto, mix it up for sure.
(41:05):
And I think that's that's important too.
Is that outreach regardlesswhether it's call, text, email,
you know, in-person, whatever the case is,I think that one of the big takeaways
for anybody that's that'strying to get sales going in their company
is stop thinking about yourselfand think about them.
So what value can you add to their life?
(41:26):
You know, instead of saying,hey, I want, you know,
I want to meet to discuss these thingsor something like that.
Try, try to flip the script,you know, and saying like, what can I
put in this message or this phone callor whatever the case is like what
focus on the benefitsand the value that come from it
that you can offer themversus asking them to give up their time
(41:48):
for something they don't even knowwhat that means for them at that point.
So if you can, if you can think of that,and it's simple, just kind of kind of
put yourself in thatand that in those shoes, you know,
when you're crafting a messageor something like that,
if I got this message,would I respond to it?
You know, there's athere's a piqued my interest
as I do this and,and if you could say yes.
(42:08):
And that's a strong messageto send out to everybody.
One thing that that I've done,guys that we haven't touched on
and I don't know that I can show anylike hard proof or results of the effect
on the effectiveness of this, butit ties into being genuine with people,
is connecting with clients on social mediaor prospective clients.
(42:30):
And for me, social media.
Yes, it can be a business tool, but
honestly, I'm sharing about stuffthat I'm enjoying personally.
Hobbies or family activities or,you know, things like that,
and just getting to know people's
like, I was going to say real lives.
Business is real life.
But the non-businesspart of their their life, right?
(42:52):
And getting to know them as peopleand leaving a comment or a like
and just showing that you're presentand interested in them as people as well.
And that can help build rapport.
So I'm eventuallymaybe they become a client,
but I'm getting to know them as a personfirst.
Yeah, I think that goes that follows thatthat the process or the thought,
(43:15):
you know, is that they may not have a needwhen you 1st May contact
or they first hear about you, you know,but the more you do that, the more you do.
You know, in businessoutreach and everything.
But even on the social side, you know,personal outreach, if you're following
their business page, congratulate themon a listing, you know, things like that.
The moreyou can stay in it right to their side
(43:37):
and right in front of themon that side of things.
When they then that that switch happensand also they need to meet,
they have a need at that point.
So maybe their, their photographer,you know, that they were using
stop doing itbecause they're doing something else now.
Or they made a mad somehow becausethey didn't show up to an appointment.
You know, all these thingsthat we hear about in in an industry.
But the second that happens,if the first thing they think of is
(44:00):
I need to get a hold of Craig to come outand and do this now, you know, that's
that's the goal.
You know, if you can do thatthen long term
and it's not by long term yourbut your business will benefit.
So much from thatbecause you're going to be
the first person that everybody thinks of.
It's like the real world.
So essentially so, you know,I like that if I think of it
(44:21):
and you're the first person on the list,they're going to go with you a lot more,
you know, likely than the personthat's ten down.
I like that, Steve, real life SEO
that andI would say too, along those lines,
that's also a great toolwith regards to existing clients.
Because the reality of it is, you know,
(44:43):
if if people are like,all I care about is price
or all I care about is this orall I care about is that then someone's
going to come along and be like, okay,I can I can be cheaper than this guy.
Right?
But when you build that relationship, and,
you know, you get to know these peopleand these people
genuinely feel like, you have their back.
(45:06):
That's going to change things, and that'sgoing to make it to the point where,
someone might come along and say, hey,I'll give you this media for $50 less.
And so like, yeah, but I like Chris,I don't know if I like you.
And so that, that, you know, that money.
Now there's there are some rumorsout there, you know, that that are $50.
(45:26):
Oh, great.
And you know, againnow it's down to the bottom.
But but I wouldI would definitely say like
I use relationship selling.
And actuallySteve mentioned this a while ago.
But you know, somebody somebodyyou call it somebody and they're like,
you know,I use this competitor and I love them.
And I've been with them for five yearsand and I'm never going to go anywhere.
(45:47):
My typical response is Iyou know, I respect that.
Because in all honesty, you know,I know we're talking to a lot of people
that might actually be, you know,both the salesperson and the photographer.
I'm not I don't do
the only thing I do in this companyis I build relationships with my clients.
And so I literally will say that to peopleI like, like my my sole responsibility
(46:08):
is building that relationship.
So I, I respect a solid relationship.
And then that's where, you know,like he mentioned before again,
you know, let me let me be your fallback
if they go on vacation,if they can't handle something, whatever.
But it's the same way if somebodyif your competitors call your clients up,
and they reach out your clients,very likely if you've built that
(46:30):
relationship, your clientsare going to say that to your competitors.
They're going to say, yeah, we usewow video tours
And and I love them,and I'm never going to go anywhere
because of the relationship,not necessarily because,
you know, okay,I can give you a free shoot.
You know, and then all of a sudden that,
you know, they're like, well, yeah,you can give me that free shoot, but,
(46:52):
I, I'm, I still work with so-and-so, so,so that,
has a limited value to it.
If you've built that relationship andthat relationship is true, it's excellent.
Excellent, guys.
Thank you so much. I thank you.
I think that, gives a good summaryof how how you can develop
(47:12):
business without selling.
And just appreciate the real lifeexamples.
So, yeah, our guests again, Steve Musserand Chris Voge from Wow video tours.
Gentlemen. Appreciate you.
Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
All right.
Well, guys,hopefully you found some value in that.
If you have some, some tips and tricksand things that have worked
(47:33):
well in your business,feel free to leave it in a comment.
Here on the YouTube channel.
Or you can drop us an email as well.Spiro.
Hello@spiro.mediaand we would love to hear from you.
So, yeah, just real life examples
of how you can sell without sellingand that it works.
People buy from peoplethey know, like and trust
(47:54):
and just takes timeto develop those relationships.
But that's what it's all about.
So make sure you take some time this weekto be thankful for the blessings.
Make sure you take some time to breathe.
That's what Spiro means breath.
And next week we're going to have,Shannon Landers on from Spiro.
Going over the, third quarter,
review and also a fourth quarter forecast.
(48:17):
So that's coming up next week.
Appreciate you.
Have a fantastic week. Take care.
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