June 11, 2025 • 46 mins
It's the age-old question in business: What do I do about my competitors who are offering ridiculously low pricing and devaluing what our industry does? Yes: The Race to the Bottom. How do you handle it as a business owner? Do you race with the competitor? Do you compete on price? Do you compete on service and quality? What shifts in your business do you need to make if any? Todd and Craig tackle the question with some thoughts for you to consider.
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0:00 Episode Open
04:40 The Race to the Bottom
44:02 Episode Wrap-up
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
You should expect all of your peopleto price shop you.
You should expect all of your employeesto look for jobs.
(00:24):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,managing your real estate,
photography and videography business,Spiro.
It's a software
platform and it's designed to help youmanage your day to day real estate
media business, but ultimately really helpyou help it grow and scale as well.
We want to see you succeed.
I'm Craig Magrum.
Welcome back to another week.
If you're returning to the podcast,if you're brand new,
(00:46):
it's allabout the business of real estate media.
We want to helpyou build a strong business
and see you succeed in your marketor markets.
So well, welcome.
Got a great topic this week.
But before we get to that,
let me introduce our co-host and Spiroowner and founder Todd Kivimaki.
Welcome back, Todd
Craig, great to be back.
Fabulous week on this podcast Craigwhat did you smoke.
(01:08):
And as far as meat lastwe're in the recent history.
And in the last 2 or 3 weeksit was it was ribs.
Did a, did a couple of Rex ribs.
I have to confess, though,they were not my best ribs.
You just I don't know if I didn't golet them go long enough.
Flavor was there,but just that that tenderness
(01:29):
where you get just that right biteyou know?
Yeah, it wasn't wasn't quite there.
So I need to redeem myself.
Well, what we can do, Craig,I have an idea as well.
Inviteall of the Spiro listeners down to Ohio,
and we'll give you
Ohia
yes, we'll give you an opportunityto perfect your ribs.
(01:49):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I need a larger smoker. Can
Wow video toursprovide me a larger smoker.
Yeah, I think we can arrange something.
Okay, okay.
Yeah. I mean, we can write it off, right?
Can't we?
There we go.
I don't know, business expense.
Yeah, it's for the for our Spiro clients.
Yeah, yeah,we'll put a logo on it. There you go.
Actually,I am getting ready to do a couple of, pork
(02:12):
butts,some pulled pork for my camping neighbors.
I started the dangerous traditionlast year where I smoked two pork butts
and invited our immediate campingneighbors around for, for some barbecue.
And they liked it so much that they're.
They've already approached me this yearand said, you're going to smoke
some more pulled porkthis year for us, right?
I remember this story from last year. Yes.Yeah.
(02:33):
That's I guessit's it's always good to feed people.
It is.
And and you want good camping neighborsbecause they're right next to you
Yeah. Hopefully.
Or not like the neighborhood cat
that just keeps you know, you feedthe neighborhood cat once, and she just.
I'm not going to
(02:54):
go ahead.
I'm a visual guy.
I'm not going to be ableto get that visual out of my head now
you're going to be chucklingwhen you talk to your just blame it on me.
Hey, when you have this smirkand you're camping,
neighbors are gonna be like, what?
What is wrong, Craig?
It's like, it's not my fault. It's Todd.
They they already ask that question.
What's wrong with you, Craig?
(03:14):
Okay.
All right.
That says a lot, because.
And I camp at a campground, too,so this is nothing discriminatory
towards people that camp.
But if people at a campgroundask you what's wrong with you?
Like. Yes.
But I came up, on all seriousness, in
(03:35):
all seriousness, speaking about smoke and,this might affect a lot of those of you
watching, in the northern part of the US,northern and central to the east.
We're dealing with actually wildfiresmoke from, Manitoba, Canada.
We've actually got an air quality warning,here in northwest Ohio.
And I know it's covering all in Michiganas well.
(03:56):
It's very, very hazy out. Right. It is.
Yeah. It's incredible.
So those of you having to deal with that,and especially our viewers and listeners
in Canada, hear our hearts and prayersare going out to you for those wildfires.
We know that's tough right now.So yeah, for sure.
Hopefullyall of our friends in Canada are okay.
And yeah, yeah.
We saw like it was like 90 jobsa couple days ago or a day ago
(04:17):
because we've been rainy tooand went down.
I checked it was like it was like 70.
I was like, where did 20 jobs go?
It, it's like, oh yeah, it'srainy, it's foggy, it's the smoke.
So I've got a drone shootright on Lake Erie,
and I'm a little concerned about the haze.
So real things that we have to dealwith as real estate media professionals.
Right. So they are. Yes, we sure are.
(04:39):
All right, let's dive into it.
Yeah, Craig,we have a good one today here.
I'm excited about this one.
We do, we do that we're calling thisepisode The Race to the bottom
and we all deal with it.
Todd, you saw a great question
on, one of the Facebook real estatemedia groups this week.
That talked a little bit about,somebody's competitor
that was offering photosand drone for like $200.
(05:03):
And just the discussionthat ensued around that.
And we thought, you know, that's that'sa great topic, very business oriented,
you know, dealing with the question of,
do I compete on price?
How do I compete against peoplethat are offering, you know, photos for,
you know, you know,what might be cheap in our market,
but trying to run a profitable business.
(05:25):
Yeah.
It is you know,so I'll just set this up a little bit.
So you all have kind ofif you haven't seen the post
and there's good conversation in there.
So basically
a real estate photographersaying hey I had,
I got this text from a realtor
that said, you know, my current
(05:45):
company does photo
and drone for 195
and then ask this individualif they can do that price.
And so this individual was like, hey, what
what do you do?
You know, how do I and that'sthat's not what I charge.
What's a great way to respond to this?
(06:06):
You know.
So and now there's, there'sa few different
trains of thought here of what's going in.
So one, it's great that you have realtorsreaching out to you, right.
You know, and I don't know where thisI don't know where this message came from.
If it was maybe a response to a,
a text message that was
(06:27):
sent out like a cold or warmif this was an Instagram.
Right.
Anyways, there's an agentthat is showing interest in your company,
and I remember when no one showedany interest in any of my companies.
I remember itwas, wow, I remember it was Spiro.
And you're just sitting therelike refreshing,
(06:47):
like, my my ringer must clearly be broken.
Nobody's calling me.I mean, do you remember those days, Craig?
I do, I do that first yearI was working directly with Spiro.
It it was tough.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
other companies out thereproviding you know providing a service
that you're trying to provide as well.
So how do you compete against that.
(07:09):
Yeah exactly.
So I'm strategically kindof setting this up here
to mentally just make surethat we have the right mindset.
Because I think immediatelyand I see this question a lot in this
in this current threadthat's going right now.
I see it all the time.
You all see it all the time.
And it's a very valid question.
(07:31):
But the thing is, is
if you become surprised
that agents text, email, call,ask you for a lower rate,
you're already in the wrong state of mind.
Now, I'm not saying this posterif you find this thread.
He was actually very levelheaded about it,
(07:52):
but I hear a lot of people say, hey,why would they want this?
How would they?
How do they think I could even feedmy family, make a business,
stay in business, whatever it may be,and you're automatically surprised?
I, I I've told this story before,but I coached basketball
and my assistant coach, he is verybig on like, hey guys, let's not
(08:12):
be surprised when we turn the ballover in a basketball game.
Like and you know it's funny Craig,because we
we videotape every basketball game.
And so we watch it to learn.
See what we did good.See what we need to improve on.
And I'll clip my players and like
(08:32):
ref makes a bad call
and I have this one roomthis guys is freeze.
Like he's throwing his hands up
like it looks like he thinks the worldslike the sky's literally falling.
And I came to him and said,and I said, you know, but why?
Why are you so surprisedthat the ref made a bad call?
(08:53):
Shouldn't we expect thatthe refs got to make a bad call?
Like we just expect itand don't be surprised by it.
Then your left brain doesn't kick upand then you don't go like
this is incrediblethat a referee who gets paid $30
a game and gets yelled at by allthe fans would make a bad call.
Who wants that job? Craig yeah, right.
(09:17):
I don't
yeah. So.
So our goal this podcasttoday is I know you're saying.
Okay, Todd cool. I'm not surprised by it.
Like, let me just be okay with that.
But what do I do with it?
Right.
Like,I still have to respond to the agent.
I still have to try to gain the agent.
(09:38):
What?
How would you analyze this?
Can I offer my initial like.
Yeah, please.
Reaction to the fact.
Okay, so you have this agent contacting
the the photographer backand saying can you match this price?
My current photographerdoes it for this price.
And whether whether this was, a cold call
(09:58):
by the photographer or, or,or the realtor reached out on their own.
To me, that's immaterial.
The way I'm filtering this right nowis the fact that,
okay, they might be happy with the priceof their current photographer,
but there's somethingthat is falling short,
in the
service level, becausethey wouldn't even bother to respond
(10:19):
if they were perfectly happywith their current photographer.
If they're willing to switchphotographers, if you price match,
then that other photographeris lacking somewhere in that, that,
realtor is looking for something more
so that my first question to the, tothe realtor
would be just out of curiosity,where do you you know,
(10:41):
what are you looking formore from your current
your current photographers and providing.
And I just start digging.
Actually what I would do firstis probably invite him to coffee and say,
hey, I'd love to talk more about thisand we can talk about price.
Can I treat you to coffee?
Because I like to get to knowpeople face to face.
And then I'm that's just my personal waybecause I feel like when you're face
(11:02):
to face versus over the phoneor even let alone text or email,
there's more of a human interactionand you can build trust a lot quicker.
So that's,
that's my, my initialfirst thought on how I would reply.
Yeah, for sure, because there's onevariable in this text message conversation
is Willyou do this thing that's not even defined
(11:24):
for this price, right?
You're you're never going to win
when in quotes that conversation,
if you're saying, hey, I should be at300 or 400, I should be at 3000.
It doesn't matter.
You're never going to win a priceconversation through a text message.
No, it's just not so
(11:47):
go ahead. Craig.
Yeah, I was just saying it'stoo cold and cut and dried.
There's no emotion,there's no interaction.
There's no opportunityto really dig and ask questions,
which is what we kind of covered,last week on last week's episode,
or was it two weeks agoon the importance of asking questions.
Is that'sjust a critical part of the process?
(12:09):
Yeah, yeah.
So look, I'm going to break this downreal quick.
Quick. Craig was just some math here.
I'll give you some insight as to whatwhat numbers and margins are for us at Wow.
And what we see across,a lot of photographers in the world.
So let's look at the ideaof doing the shoot for 200.
And we're going to get toin the next segment, we're going to get to
(12:30):
some more dimensions about just one shoot.
So we will get to that.
And I'm not saying right now,by breaking down this math that you should
or should not do photos plus drone again,
not clearly defined for $200.
We're just going to look at math herebecause I love math.
All right. So I'm glad there'speople like you that love it.
(12:53):
Well and I think
but I love I love that it gives clarity.
Yeah. And I have our largest client.
He, he told me he asked me a questionvery early on.
And this is like a guyI'm nervous to sit with.
I know him pretty. I know himreally well. Now.
He refers us, but I'm still, you know,I still prepare for this guy. He.
I set a statement
(13:15):
and he said, Todd, is that what you think,or is that what you know?
Yeah.
And he said it.
My brain,my processor, took a second to process it
and I went, oh, crap,I know what he's like.
And I'm like, that is so smart.
Like I use that all the time.
(13:35):
Is that what you thinkI, I use it on myself.
Is this what I think or what I know.
The only way to truly know something Iyou typically take it back to metrics.
Yeah.
So $200 shoot photo and drone.
Craig how long of an appointment isthat. Let's and okay.
So I'm sorry.
Let's define this photo and dronejust for the sake of this.
Perfect for this, illustration that photos
(13:58):
you're going to shoot 30 to 40 photos.
We don't do number of photos.
We do it by square footage. Craig.
It's a 20 500 square foot house.
Maybe has one room in the basement.Finished.
And you want, dronethat's going to include a five shots.
Photos only.
So if the house is ready,you know, it's picked up.
(14:18):
We're not waiting for the sellersto have to hide things.
Maybe even the lights are turned on.
The blinds are open.
Best case scenario, right.
What, 30 photos plus, 4 or 5 drone photos,I don't know, 20.
There.
It probably take me 35 minutes.
Maybe 40.
Yeah, tops. Yeah. Okay.
Let's say 45 minutes because you're goingto talk a little bit 45 minutes.
(14:42):
Sure. Okay.
And just for actually let's I like
taking best worst casescenario let's say 60 minutes okay.
All right.
It makes for easy math too.
When we figure an hourly rate okay.
So 60 minutes in thereI know many of you are paying
your photographers 25 to $35 an hour.
Again, let's take worst casescenario, 35 bucks an hour.
(15:05):
An hour times one hour.
You got $35. Photographer charges.
All right.
Now I understand there might be someoutline factors of where is this located?
And are you paying your photographerany mileage?
We can add some more injust for a worst case scenario.
When we begin to add this up.
Okay.
So that islet's call it $35 on a $200 job.
(15:28):
So the other item that we havewith cost of goods is photo editing.
And again, you're going to do, 35photos and five drone photos.
It's a total of 40 images.
Send them to auto HDR.
About $0.55 an image.
That's 22 bucks.
Okay.
If you're like, Todd, what is auto HDR?
Auto HDR is an AI photo editing.
(15:51):
We don't own it. Matt. Gia.
Fabulous individual on the real estatemedia company.
We've part we we endorse it.
We use it at Wow.
You know, we put thousandsand thousands of images through it,
in the last month,tens of thousands of images.
It's fabulous.
Great quality.
If you want to find outmore autohdr.com/spiro
(16:13):
or if you're in a Spiro useor just go to your integrations.
If you use that slash Spiro to sign up,you'll get free credits in there
to try it out. So give it a try.
See what it is.
It's about $0.55 an image based on volume.
Okay, Craig.
So 35 plus 22 is 57 bucks.
All right.
$57 on a $200 Alv is 57divided by two because it's 200.
(16:37):
That's a 28.5% cost of goods.
Okay.
So your cost of goods is 20.5%.
So the way I did that is youjust take your $57
divided by your $200 and that will giveyou the percentage of your cost of goods.
Okay.
So I can tell you, after looking athundreds of thousands of jobs and talking
(16:58):
to thousands and thousands of people,that that is a healthy spot for you to be.
at Wow our cost of goods,our photographer cost
is usually in the 30s, low 30s.
depending the market,we pay a little bit different based on
where the photographer is located,because cost of living is different.
(17:18):
And then our editing cost is 7 to 10%.
So we like to be in that mid to high 30s.
That's where we always land.
And we feel like we can keep good people,we people, you know,
our photographers can make a good livingso that they stay on with us,
we retain them,they feel like they can grow.
And that's the editing style.
(17:40):
Now, if autoHDRand then we have, you know, video editors
use the merge fleet, but we do have othereditors, QC and all that.
So 28.5% on the shoot,
just from a numbers perspectiveI say is pretty healthy.
So again, $57 is our cost of goods.
And we took our top line revenueor our order value was 200
(18:02):
%200 -$57 is $143 okay.
So $143 is your gross profit right now.
That's not your net.And that's at the bottom of the PNL.
So you still have to payfor subscriptions.
You have to pay for other things,whatever you have.
But just as a general math related item,
these percentages seem good to me.
(18:26):
And again, I'm not sayingyou should even do it at this cost.
Now there are some variables.
If you live in California, for example,
you are not paying anybody $35 an hourand keeping them.
I get that, okay.
The beautiful thing is your editingcost is still the same.
But you're I know you're not payinggood people that rate,
so you have to take thisinto consideration, right?
(18:49):
So from a math perspective,just looking at it, I'm sitting there
going, hey, this is pretty good.
Like I'm happy with this.
The one other variable, Craig,is the fact that if
if you are a solo shooter and this is notand it's not your goal
to maximize the amount of volumethat comes into your business,
(19:10):
you're going to think about this waydifferent, right?
Again, we have a different thought here atWow I think differently about this.
I want to do as many as possible.
Why we're going to hit about 13,500 jobsthis year in that range.
It'll be our best year ever.
And we want to do volume.
If you are a single shooter,you you probably should respond
(19:31):
differently to this text message.
If you're looking to have thehighest average order value.
All right.
And again, if that's your tact,which at one point in my career was
when I was on my own with my own company,I was a lower
volume shooter compared to say, wow,
yeah.
You're giving,hopefully an exceptional level of service
(19:55):
and weeding out the type of clientsthat are only shopping based on price.
So but again, you need that face to facerelationship building component
even more critically,to dive into the questions
you know, that you need to askand build a relationship with the client.
And the right client will be incrediblyloyal to you despite price.
(20:17):
Yeah.
So that's that's that's the route.
Let's take that scenario, Craig.
Let's talk about the pivot.
The pivot into and away from price only.
So moving
into that, let's go back to that textmessage.
You've already offeredsome great suggestions of how to respond.
(20:40):
We feel strongly that you need
to get the conversationout of that text message.
But Craig, let's just play the what if
game, let's say,and we're all busy out there.
I talk to many of you, I know you're busy.
I know you, you are trying to hireor you're behind in hiring.
Your business is growing,so it's exciting.
(21:02):
But the thought of taking one more meeting
right now is just overwhelming.
I understand that I have been theremany times,
and I have a fabulous large teamthat helps me and I.
I don't want to take for grantedthe times that I look back
and I was like, man, I just
(21:22):
the thought
of one more meetingjust like might break me.
Like, I just don't know whereI'm going to pull the time.
So I feel you on that.
So we're going to pivot away from that,and we're going to give you
some ideas of how you can break this downa little bit more in a text message,
even though my gut says Todd,just tell them
that they have to sit with this person.
(21:44):
But I remember the timeswhere I felt like I was going to break.
So some things you could respond toin that text message
is the first thing is, as Craig,in that text message,
we haven't really even definedwhat photos and drone is right?
Right.
So in terms of the number of shots,things like that.
Yeah, yeah, I had I had one of our VIPs
(22:08):
contact me one time.
It was towards the end of a of a contractwith him, and he price shopped
and I was not offendedor surprised that he price shopped.
You should expect all of your peopleto price shop you.
You should expect all of your employeesto look for jobs.
Okay?
I had in the pastbeen surprised about both of those things.
(22:29):
Many times it took took me a lot of workto learn from me.
I'm a pretty dense brain person,but I've learned to
not be surprised thatpeople want a better deal or a better job.
It's just your responsibilityas the owner.
So this VIP email me, he called me,I have that relationship.
He called me, said, hey, I'm just,you know, we're at the end of the year
(22:50):
and I'm looking at volume,looking at price for next year.
And I've got a couple thingsI will run by you.
I got a quote from a competitor.
Can you take a look at it?It looks like it's pretty good.
He emailed it to me okay.
So I looked it over and I went, there'sno way I'm going to compete
with this price.
Like it was like, there's no wayhe had, photo drone in there.
(23:12):
He had Matterport.
He happened to useMatterport on everything.
And I looked at itand it just seemed like I was worlds away.
Craig.
Like, like,we're going to lose this guy like he did.
He was doing about 100 a year at thattime, and now he owns his own brokerage,
like he was growing like crazy, and I knewhe was going to be an owner one day.
And I was like,how are we going to do this?
(23:34):
Well, what we had to start to dois we had to start to ask questions.
So we looked at the competitor,we looked at what they were delivering.
We asked for examples.
He gave them to us. Remember,I had the relationship.
I can ask those questions.
I worked with him for five years now,
and as we started to see these things,we realized that the competitor
was using a non Matterport Pro.
(23:57):
I think it was a Pro twoat the time camera.
But using a theta camera as a 3D tourslook like crap,
like it was the low level theta camera.
Well, the thing about the theta camera isthe fact that you can get through a house
a ton faster than the Matterport camera.
The. For those of youthat don't shoot Matterport
(24:18):
or don't know about the Matterport camera,it scans.
It actually spins on its base,at least at the time.
I don't know if they do anymore,
but at the timethe Matterport camera would spin
and it would take like a minuteto spin around and then it would have to
process.
Well,the theta camera does it almost instantly
because it has 180degree lenses on each side of the camera.
(24:39):
So you hit snap,you hit capture and boom, it's done.
It doesn't have to spin.
So we started looking at this andwe're like, oh, this is not our product.
And then we looked at drone.It's like, well, wait a minute.
This is not this doesn't have video on it.
Some things he hadn't been getting,
he's like, oh for droneI really just want the front and the back.
I just want two images.
I don't need this other stuff.
(25:01):
So long story short, Craig,we had to do an apples.
The apples are oranges.
The oranges comparisonwas apples to oranges at the time.
I was trying to fit our superior product
into a containerthat was completely different.
Okay, so long story short,we looked at that.
We actually came up with a term.
We came up with a new productcalled Matterport Light.
(25:23):
We already had the cameras come on.
We are scanning other thingswith the cameras.
He was happy with that quality.
And again we are like, hey,are you happy with this quality?
Look at our quality. Look at his quality.
He said, yeah,I'm actually happy with that.
I just use it as a feature benefit.
I need it to get listings.
Yeah, okay.
No problem.
(25:44):
Then we went back.
Look at what our drone packages have.
This is what you're saying you want.
Are you good with literally two photos?
He was.
And we came upwith a custom thing for him.
Now I will sayyou do not want to do custom.
We had a commenter on Facebookmake a great message
or had a good, good, comment about like,do we want to do custom for everyone?
(26:06):
How do we protect our clients?
You don't want to do custom for everyone.
Again, this client did 100 a year with meand now he owns a brokerage.
So you're going to have to pickcertain times for this.
But we retain that client.
We created new thingsbecause we wanted to retain him.
But our goal was to retainhim and still be profitable.
So every caseis going to be a little bit different.
(26:28):
And you got you got to run run it throughkind of a matrix of questions.
And what's the word I'm looking for?
Is it proffitable
Yeah.
This is a profitable for usstill to do this.
Yeah.
And one client,it might be profitable in another.
It might not.
Yeah. It might not be.
(26:48):
And you are going to get sorry, Craig.
You're going to get some of those dyingpumpkins on the vine.
We've talked about that before.
There's going to be some messagesthat come in and it's a dying pumpkin.
You just need to cut it off the vine,be it and be very respectful to them.
Yeah.
He's we were on a coachingcall the other day and this topic came up.
I actually brought upbecause I really like this conversation.
(27:09):
I think there's a lot to learn here.
Steve had an example as to where we hada client come in very similar,
and we molded a few thingsand we molded the package.
Again, it was a big client,
it was a company client,and it was a very low average order value.
But we built the relationship,we got the business.
It was a lot of volume comingin, and their average order
(27:31):
value has goingup, has gone up over a third
in the like the three yearsthey've been a client with us.
They went from spending about,
you know, are actually went up about 50%because they were about 200.
And now they're at 300.
So it does take time
sometimes for clients to understandthe value that you bring.
(27:52):
Right.
And if you're starting with a new clientthat is
initially only looking at small packages,you know, CFO, the only type of deal,
Todd, you've brought this up.
I saw one of your responses onon Facebook. You brought this up there.
There was a period of timein our, in our company
that we weren'tinterested in a photo only.
But you started rethinking thatwith the leadership team.
(28:14):
Can you share a little bit moreabout that, that decision making process?
Yeah.
So yeah,walk us walk us through that. Yeah.
So it almost seems silly to say we,
we thought about these clients like thisat a point in time, but it's true.
Like we would look at clientsthat came in and did photo
only jobs and we'd be like,oh, it's photos only like it was.
(28:35):
It was a term like their photos,only it it meant not a great thing.
And so at Wow, 80% of our jobs
include videoand we've always marketed video.
Again,our company is called Wow Video Tours.
I didn't even do photosfor the first 3 or 4 years of business.
So we packaged those things together.
(28:56):
And that leads us to a ton of flexibility.
Different podcast, different idea.
But we would get new clients that came inand they would order
photos only like, oh,they're photos only like.
And we'd kind of brush them off.
And that is a that's a dumb thing.
And it was,
it was by farI'm just going to say it was,
(29:16):
it was dumb to kind of think, wait, why?
These clients are photos only and it is
because your clientshave to start somewhere, right?
You know, you can't expect like ifif you are doing things
differently at your companyand you have these higher end products,
you can't expect your your clientsto come in and know about them.
(29:38):
You'll have some of the better marketingpeople come in and request things
and ask for new things, and they'll helppush your brand and your services.
But if you really put your selfin your client's shoes,
remember they're busy.
They are wondering how they're goingto get their next listing,
their next buyer,
(29:58):
their
one, and how they're going to payfor the marketing,
how they're going to
pay for the same post,how they're going to pay for their dues,
how they're going to payfor all of the other things.
They're small business owners.
You know the feeling when it's just you.
So when you bring them inand you build that relationship
and you show, show them the value,
they're going to doa lot of different things for you.
(30:21):
Number one, they have a great potentialto order more from you.
They're going to order again and again.
Our photosonly price and made sense for us.
We considered it profitable. It was.
So why would we be unhappywith a job that's profitable,
right?
And especially a job that's profitableeven at a smaller
(30:42):
margin that could lead to largermargins down the road?
Is that realtor grows their business.
And that's kind of always beenmy passion is especially helping
newer realtors get their feet under them
right away with really good photos.
They might not be able to affordpaying for the video
right off the bat because they've got athey've got a ton of startup costs, right?
(31:04):
And starting their real estate business.
So if you can build that relationshipand build that trust by just giving them
a fantastic service, even on photos only
the go getters,the ones that are really motivated,
they're going to keep workingon building their business.
And if you're there at at ground levelwith them
with just a basic photo only service,but consult with them about thinking
(31:27):
about the future of growing their brandas a realtor and introducing some ideas.
They're going to considerthat they might not be able to do it
right in the momentis their getting their business going.
But as they grow their business andbecome more well known in the community
because they're all about networking,that's how they build their business
and they're all able to offer sellers
(31:48):
more and more servicesas they grow their business.
You're right with them growing with themso it might be a lower average order
value to start, but stick with themlong term, because on the opposite
end of the spectrum, you've got older,older realtors that are starting.
They might loveyou and be super loyal to you,
but they're slow in their business downbecause they're approaching retirement.
(32:11):
I've got some of those clients that evenjust three, you know, 3 or 4 years ago,
they were they were big hitters,but they're approaching retirement.
And they've told me, Craig,you know, I'm slowing down a little bit.
Well, you got to remember that funnel,that sales
funnel, right, that you're going to havesome leaving your business.
And if you don't have new businesscoming in and be willing
to make that shift from an average ordervalue, you're going to catch yourself
(32:36):
in a catch 22and business can start to spiral or down.
So it's always refreshing that funneland remembering both both ends
of the realtor career spectrumthat was leaving in those just getting in.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah that that's a that's a great point.
And there is more valuethan just this one shoot right Craig
(32:59):
I mean that you know, if you look at itfrom a one shoot perspective, you know,
you might not make a huge amount of money
on this one shoot,but this if, if you accommodate.
And again, I'm not saying you shouldand maybe you say,
hey, I've got a new client discount,I think there is value
in getting the client to shoot with youat least one time.
(33:21):
Yeah, I think that's just the tipof the iceberg, Craig, I don't know.
What do you think?
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
I mean, there'sthere's a lot of factors to consider.
I just I'm thinking about one client
that she does, a lot of high end listings.
Well, she does some high end listingsand some more average listings,
and she doesn't necessarilyuse this on her average listings.
(33:43):
I'm working on that.
But she's been getting moreand more higher in listings.
And so she's using us a little bitmore consistently.
Well, she recently I thinkI talked about this a couple podcasts ago.
She she had her highest listing value,property ever at close to 3 million.
And she was only going to do photos onlyonly going to do photos, video and drone.
(34:04):
And I talked with her about being oncamera to help her build her brand.
And she was super nervous, but she did itand she was super glad to.
Todd.
We just had another listing from herand she said, Craig,
I want to do thatagent on video camera again.
Now she was super still super nervous.
And you know, we walked through that.
But in just one listing of doing that,she realized the value
(34:28):
of that additional service,of being on camera and
and so but that doesn't comeuntil you've built trust.
Yeah.
So be willing to take the smalleraverage order value to start
and build a relationship.
And that business will grow.
That's my take on it.
Oh for sure.It comes down to that lifetime value.
And those are thingsthat you're going to see.
And your metrics dashboardyou know in Spiro.
(34:51):
So there are also a couple of other thingsthat you're not going to see.
Or you maybe are right there.
But this this client, if they love you
and become a raving fan,they're going to refer you.
Yeah. Yep.
And that is going to continueto push revenue into your company.
So that's another opportunity.
(35:13):
The last
thingis if this individuals are raving fan,
they're going to be potentially
a lead to the brokerand assign a broker deal.
The idea I talked about some some leadingindicators of getting a broker deal.
And the biggest oneis sell through our support
(35:33):
or the number of agents that you haveat the company.
It's very difficult to have 1 or 2 agents
or a small percentage of the agentsat a company
and to go and get a broker deal,
because you're going to ask for a meeting.
The broker doesn't know you.
The broker hasn't heard about your name.
This all takes time.
Your your companyname has to flow through.
(35:55):
You have to get agents that
recommend you.
You have to get agentsthat say your name in team meetings.
You know, it's this idea of thatthe broker needs to hear your name
so many timesbefore you're even on their radar.
This is no different.
Let me just put this in our situation.
But think back towhen you were looking for a photo editor.
(36:16):
And this the idea of like,if you message in a particular Facebook
group, say, hey, I need a photo editor,
you're going to get 3 million photoeditors.
That email or Facebook message. You.
Right.
But if you
see a post from another photographer
that says,hey, I'm just really trying to help.
(36:37):
Like I have a photo editor and he has heor she has a little more time to do
photo edits.
I've really loved this person,just trying to help them out.
If anybody has some jobs, here'sour contact information.
Which one is more impressionable
and your mind? carries more weight
It's word of mouth advertising.
It's the same thing with a broker.
(36:58):
So one more agent is one agent closerto you having enough pull at the company
that you get a broker deal, or you justsell through to a lot more agents.
It's this idea of this tipping point.
And sometimes in life I look backand I, I was pushing the car up the hill
and I
was so close to the tipping point,I just got tired.
(37:19):
I'm like, it's never going to work.
It's not going to happen.
This and I needed to just haveone more contact, one more person,
and it would have pushed the car overand then I would have been beyond
that tipping point.I would have been gone downhill.
You just never know.
The odds say onemore is not going to do it,
(37:40):
but you just don't know when one moreis actually going to tip the car
and you're going to hit momentumat that company, right?
I just imagine there's still
some, some, photographers out thereasking the question, though.
Do I want to race to the bottom?
Yeah, but I thinkI think it's more nuanced than that.
You have to you have to run it
through a series of questions of what'swhat's the long term value?
(38:01):
Is it really a race to the bottom?
And sometimes it is.
But I think in some cases it's,
it's going to be worththe initial lower cost.
And in some cases it's not going to bebecause you're, you're always
you don't be surprisedthat you're going to have some realtors
that are only interested in price.
Like, like you said before,don't be surprised by that.
(38:24):
Yeah.
Craig let me ask you a question
and I'll say individuals namebecause I know him well.
But Ron, Ron mentioned in thereand he said mentioned my name.
He said but would you charge an agent lessthan other agents.
That doesn't exactly seem fairto the ones that pay full price.
He said, unless you mean
lowering your price for everyone,what are your thoughts on that, Craig?
(38:45):
So we've struggled with that question.
But we answered it witha an agent discount program.
Or it's the
the decision is based on volumewhich is then fair for everyone.
And you explainand you can explain that, hey,
the more you're able to shoot with us, youknow, the better price we can give you.
And we, we want to give you a better priceand help you grow
(39:09):
so that, you know, you can move up thatthat tiered pricing level.
So that's how that's how we've handled it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And if you takeif you take this opportunity,
if this is a new client for youand you have you create some sort of
new client discount and it could beeven be on the fly and say, hey,
(39:29):
you know, this iswe typically are 295 for photo and drone.
You know, I want to understand,you know, what you're looking for
and make surethat we exceed your expectations.
I have a promotion going on right now, orI can meet that price for the first one.
I just ask that you give honest feedbackabout the meeting, and we look at
(39:49):
if there's any ways that we can improveyour marketing for future listings.
If you give some sort of picture of that.
Ron, I agree with you.
I don't thinkjust because an agent text message
and ask for the $200 price,you can't honor that forever.
I think it's valuable money to discount it
for the opportunity of whatthe agent could bring.
(40:13):
That's good, that's good.
Yeah, but I believe fullythat you need to be able to justify.
You need to assume every agent knowswhat everyone else pays,
and you have to be able to justify itas to why they get that discount
agents
do talk amongst themselves,even between brokerages.
Just know that.
(40:34):
Yeah, I've actually had a managerdirectly asked me that question.
So and I had to be honest because I knewthat he knew what the pricing was.
So don't try and skate around it.
Just be upfront andand yeah, like Todd said, have the reason
and the justification of thatfrom a business standpoint.
(40:55):
Yeah.
Craig, I think at some pointwe talked about pricing tiers
or I have a talk out theresomewhere. Steve has one.
That's the way we come about it.
If you're looking for that,just do a quick search.
But we may.
Everybody's fair
because they fit into a pricing tierlike Craig mentioned based on volume.
And the quick pivot is like, hey,I know that this agent gets a lower price.
(41:16):
Can I get that same price?
The response is,we would love to give you that price.
This is what you need to do to qualifyfor that program.
We need to get you doing 40 listingsa year and then you can unlock that price.
And better yet, if you do 100 listings ayear, we can even give you a lower price.
You just send them all that informationso they know.
(41:37):
And then it's equal playing fieldand nobody's played favorites, right?
Right.
It's business.
I think most, most levelheaded businesspeople understand that.
Well, volume basedpricing is not a new thing.
It's expected I, I had a previous salesrole and and that's what we did.
(41:57):
You know based on volume.
Here's the pricing that we can give you.
So nothing unusual okay.
Yeah.
Something you canyou can be comfortable with. So.
Well excellent ToddI think that covers it pretty well.
Do youdo you have any final thoughts or. Yeah.
Just what's your opinion?
Let's keep the discussion going.
(42:17):
I think this is a great onebecause this is something
that's very commonand it might come in many different forms.
You're always going to get thisif you're doing even a,
a presentation at a, at an office,an office meeting, typically
the first question is if you don't passit, a price list is what do you charge.
So we need to figure out a
(42:38):
way to hit this head on to,
to be able to hit it in strideso that you have a good response
so that you can keep people interestedin you so that you can really see
the full opportunityof what that client can bring, right?
I could even make a joke about it,you know,
in a presentation and have the havethe pricing sheet right at their desk.
(43:01):
And, you know,if you have the pricing sheet
at their spot on the table,that's the first thing they're looking at.
I see them looking at the pricing sheetbefore I even open my mouth.
And so just address that right upfront and say,
hey, I know you're looking at pricealready.
You've got it.
We're not trying to hide anythingand that,
but then go through your presentationon on the value that you bring,
(43:24):
and maybe even have some storiesready of, of some success stories.
We all relate to stories.
We are a story driven people.
So if you've got some success storiesthat you can share, especially
if one of those success storiesis in the room at the time.
I've asked that agent,especially if if I know they're
a raving fan to share their testimony,and that's powerful.
(43:45):
Yes, that all goes into buildingthat relationship.
And those people will stay loyal.
They will pay more,they will upgrade more.
They refer you.
And those are the clients that you want.
Yeah, exactly.
All right.
Yeah.
If you've got a story about pricing,we'd love to hear about it.
(44:05):
If you're watching on YouTube,feel free to leave a comment
and maybe how you've you've handled it,because we want to hear
all of your storiesand your your ways of addressing this.
This is a community, right?
So leave a comment.
We would love to hear your,your examples of how you've dealt with it.
And, be sure to give this a, likeif you've found some value in it and,
and or share as well.
(44:27):
If you subscribe,you get a little bell notification that,
shows when, when we, up,you know, upload a new episode,
which is typically every Wednesdaymorning, here in the US.
So, we do is just really appreciateyou guys watching.
And if you have a question,a business question,
you know, like,like we saw from this Facebook question,
(44:47):
drop us a line at hello@spiro.media.
We would love to hear from you.
And we do we do respondto those and look for those emails.
All right, Todd.
Well, thank you for the insight this week.
Appreciate it.
Great discussion. Great to be here.
And, you know, just one more conversationthat as you do these
and they're going to get better too.
(45:08):
The first time you doit, it's going to be terrible.
Anybody got blew. That thing.
I've blown many first conversations.
I've blown many 10th conversations.
But the 11th is going to be the one
where you're like, dang,I did pretty good on that one.
So just keep trying and keep analyzingwhat you're doing.
Put push through,because the longer you're in this,
the more comfortable you're going to get.
You always want a littleI think you always want
(45:29):
a little bit of nervousnessjust to keep that edge. Right.
But as you buildloyal customers and clients,
it will build your confidencein what you're doing with your business.
And, and you can present in a more,just a more confident
way, when you're at that brokerage,presentation.
So, stick with it.
Don't get discouragedif you're facing some challenge right now,
(45:52):
you might have a ton of competitionin your market.
Just give your bestand keep plugging away because
we we believe you can succeed.
So all rightwell that wraps up another week guys.
Thank you so much for taking time.
We know this is the height of busy season.
So the fact that you're making time to,either watch or listen does not
(46:13):
that does not go unnoticed.
So we appreciate that.
And, just make sureeven during the midst of busy
season, it takes some time to be thankfulfor the blessings in your life,
because we all have blessingsthat we can be thankful for.
And also make sure you take a breath.
All right. Have a great week. Take care.
Coming up on this episodeof The Spiro podcast.
(00:04):
You should expect all of your peopleto price shop you.
You should expect all of your employeesto look for jobs.
(00:24):
Hi and welcome to the Spiro Podcast,managing your real estate,
photography and videography business,Spiro.
It's a software
platform and it's designed to help youmanage your day to day real estate
media business, but ultimately really helpyou help it grow and scale as well.
We want to see you succeed.
I'm Craig Magrum.
Welcome back to another week.
If you're returning to the podcast,if you're brand new,
(00:46):
it's allabout the business of real estate media.
We want to helpyou build a strong business
and see you succeed in your marketor markets.
So well, welcome.
Got a great topic this week.
But before we get to that,
let me introduce our co-host and Spiroowner and founder Todd Kivimaki.
Welcome back, Todd
Craig, great to be back.
Fabulous week on this podcast Craigwhat did you smoke.
(01:08):
And as far as meat lastwe're in the recent history.
And in the last 2 or 3 weeksit was it was ribs.
Did a, did a couple of Rex ribs.
I have to confess, though,they were not my best ribs.
You just I don't know if I didn't golet them go long enough.
Flavor was there,but just that that tenderness
(01:29):
where you get just that right biteyou know?
Yeah, it wasn't wasn't quite there.
So I need to redeem myself.
Well, what we can do, Craig,I have an idea as well.
Inviteall of the Spiro listeners down to Ohio,
and we'll give you
Ohia
yes, we'll give you an opportunityto perfect your ribs.
(01:49):
Oh, thank you, thank you.
I need a larger smoker. Can
Wow video toursprovide me a larger smoker.
Yeah, I think we can arrange something.
Okay, okay.
Yeah. I mean, we can write it off, right?
Can't we?
There we go.
I don't know, business expense.
Yeah, it's for the for our Spiro clients.
Yeah, yeah,we'll put a logo on it. There you go.
Actually,I am getting ready to do a couple of, pork
(02:12):
butts,some pulled pork for my camping neighbors.
I started the dangerous traditionlast year where I smoked two pork butts
and invited our immediate campingneighbors around for, for some barbecue.
And they liked it so much that they're.
They've already approached me this yearand said, you're going to smoke
some more pulled porkthis year for us, right?
I remember this story from last year. Yes.Yeah.
(02:33):
That's I guessit's it's always good to feed people.
It is.
And and you want good camping neighborsbecause they're right next to you
Yeah. Hopefully.
Or not like the neighborhood cat
that just keeps you know, you feedthe neighborhood cat once, and she just.
I'm not going to
(02:54):
go ahead.
I'm a visual guy.
I'm not going to be ableto get that visual out of my head now
you're going to be chucklingwhen you talk to your just blame it on me.
Hey, when you have this smirkand you're camping,
neighbors are gonna be like, what?
What is wrong, Craig?
It's like, it's not my fault. It's Todd.
They they already ask that question.
What's wrong with you, Craig?
(03:14):
Okay.
All right.
That says a lot, because.
And I camp at a campground, too,so this is nothing discriminatory
towards people that camp.
But if people at a campgroundask you what's wrong with you?
Like. Yes.
But I came up, on all seriousness, in
(03:35):
all seriousness, speaking about smoke and,this might affect a lot of those of you
watching, in the northern part of the US,northern and central to the east.
We're dealing with actually wildfiresmoke from, Manitoba, Canada.
We've actually got an air quality warning,here in northwest Ohio.
And I know it's covering all in Michiganas well.
(03:56):
It's very, very hazy out. Right. It is.
Yeah. It's incredible.
So those of you having to deal with that,and especially our viewers and listeners
in Canada, hear our hearts and prayersare going out to you for those wildfires.
We know that's tough right now.So yeah, for sure.
Hopefullyall of our friends in Canada are okay.
And yeah, yeah.
We saw like it was like 90 jobsa couple days ago or a day ago
(04:17):
because we've been rainy tooand went down.
I checked it was like it was like 70.
I was like, where did 20 jobs go?
It, it's like, oh yeah, it'srainy, it's foggy, it's the smoke.
So I've got a drone shootright on Lake Erie,
and I'm a little concerned about the haze.
So real things that we have to dealwith as real estate media professionals.
Right. So they are. Yes, we sure are.
(04:39):
All right, let's dive into it.
Yeah, Craig,we have a good one today here.
I'm excited about this one.
We do, we do that we're calling thisepisode The Race to the bottom
and we all deal with it.
Todd, you saw a great question
on, one of the Facebook real estatemedia groups this week.
That talked a little bit about,somebody's competitor
that was offering photosand drone for like $200.
(05:03):
And just the discussionthat ensued around that.
And we thought, you know, that's that'sa great topic, very business oriented,
you know, dealing with the question of,
do I compete on price?
How do I compete against peoplethat are offering, you know, photos for,
you know, you know,what might be cheap in our market,
but trying to run a profitable business.
(05:25):
Yeah.
It is you know,so I'll just set this up a little bit.
So you all have kind ofif you haven't seen the post
and there's good conversation in there.
So basically
a real estate photographersaying hey I had,
I got this text from a realtor
that said, you know, my current
(05:45):
company does photo
and drone for 195
and then ask this individualif they can do that price.
And so this individual was like, hey, what
what do you do?
You know, how do I and that'sthat's not what I charge.
What's a great way to respond to this?
(06:06):
You know.
So and now there's, there'sa few different
trains of thought here of what's going in.
So one, it's great that you have realtorsreaching out to you, right.
You know, and I don't know where thisI don't know where this message came from.
If it was maybe a response to a,
a text message that was
(06:27):
sent out like a cold or warmif this was an Instagram.
Right.
Anyways, there's an agentthat is showing interest in your company,
and I remember when no one showedany interest in any of my companies.
I remember itwas, wow, I remember it was Spiro.
And you're just sitting therelike refreshing,
(06:47):
like, my my ringer must clearly be broken.
Nobody's calling me.I mean, do you remember those days, Craig?
I do, I do that first yearI was working directly with Spiro.
It it was tough.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
other companies out thereproviding you know providing a service
that you're trying to provide as well.
So how do you compete against that.
(07:09):
Yeah exactly.
So I'm strategically kindof setting this up here
to mentally just make surethat we have the right mindset.
Because I think immediatelyand I see this question a lot in this
in this current threadthat's going right now.
I see it all the time.
You all see it all the time.
And it's a very valid question.
(07:31):
But the thing is, is
if you become surprised
that agents text, email, call,ask you for a lower rate,
you're already in the wrong state of mind.
Now, I'm not saying this posterif you find this thread.
He was actually very levelheaded about it,
(07:52):
but I hear a lot of people say, hey,why would they want this?
How would they?
How do they think I could even feedmy family, make a business,
stay in business, whatever it may be,and you're automatically surprised?
I, I I've told this story before,but I coached basketball
and my assistant coach, he is verybig on like, hey guys, let's not
(08:12):
be surprised when we turn the ballover in a basketball game.
Like and you know it's funny Craig,because we
we videotape every basketball game.
And so we watch it to learn.
See what we did good.See what we need to improve on.
And I'll clip my players and like
(08:32):
ref makes a bad call
and I have this one roomthis guys is freeze.
Like he's throwing his hands up
like it looks like he thinks the worldslike the sky's literally falling.
And I came to him and said,and I said, you know, but why?
Why are you so surprisedthat the ref made a bad call?
(08:53):
Shouldn't we expect thatthe refs got to make a bad call?
Like we just expect itand don't be surprised by it.
Then your left brain doesn't kick upand then you don't go like
this is incrediblethat a referee who gets paid $30
a game and gets yelled at by allthe fans would make a bad call.
Who wants that job? Craig yeah, right.
(09:17):
I don't
yeah. So.
So our goal this podcasttoday is I know you're saying.
Okay, Todd cool. I'm not surprised by it.
Like, let me just be okay with that.
But what do I do with it?
Right.
Like,I still have to respond to the agent.
I still have to try to gain the agent.
(09:38):
What?
How would you analyze this?
Can I offer my initial like.
Yeah, please.
Reaction to the fact.
Okay, so you have this agent contacting
the the photographer backand saying can you match this price?
My current photographerdoes it for this price.
And whether whether this was, a cold call
(09:58):
by the photographer or, or,or the realtor reached out on their own.
To me, that's immaterial.
The way I'm filtering this right nowis the fact that,
okay, they might be happy with the priceof their current photographer,
but there's somethingthat is falling short,
in the
service level, becausethey wouldn't even bother to respond
(10:19):
if they were perfectly happywith their current photographer.
If they're willing to switchphotographers, if you price match,
then that other photographeris lacking somewhere in that, that,
realtor is looking for something more
so that my first question to the, tothe realtor
would be just out of curiosity,where do you you know,
(10:41):
what are you looking formore from your current
your current photographers and providing.
And I just start digging.
Actually what I would do firstis probably invite him to coffee and say,
hey, I'd love to talk more about thisand we can talk about price.
Can I treat you to coffee?
Because I like to get to knowpeople face to face.
And then I'm that's just my personal waybecause I feel like when you're face
(11:02):
to face versus over the phoneor even let alone text or email,
there's more of a human interactionand you can build trust a lot quicker.
So that's,
that's my, my initialfirst thought on how I would reply.
Yeah, for sure, because there's onevariable in this text message conversation
is Willyou do this thing that's not even defined
(11:24):
for this price, right?
You're you're never going to win
when in quotes that conversation,
if you're saying, hey, I should be at300 or 400, I should be at 3000.
It doesn't matter.
You're never going to win a priceconversation through a text message.
No, it's just not so
(11:47):
go ahead. Craig.
Yeah, I was just saying it'stoo cold and cut and dried.
There's no emotion,there's no interaction.
There's no opportunityto really dig and ask questions,
which is what we kind of covered,last week on last week's episode,
or was it two weeks agoon the importance of asking questions.
Is that'sjust a critical part of the process?
(12:09):
Yeah, yeah.
So look, I'm going to break this downreal quick.
Quick. Craig was just some math here.
I'll give you some insight as to whatwhat numbers and margins are for us at Wow.
And what we see across,a lot of photographers in the world.
So let's look at the ideaof doing the shoot for 200.
And we're going to get toin the next segment, we're going to get to
(12:30):
some more dimensions about just one shoot.
So we will get to that.
And I'm not saying right now,by breaking down this math that you should
or should not do photos plus drone again,
not clearly defined for $200.
We're just going to look at math herebecause I love math.
All right. So I'm glad there'speople like you that love it.
(12:53):
Well and I think
but I love I love that it gives clarity.
Yeah. And I have our largest client.
He, he told me he asked me a questionvery early on.
And this is like a guyI'm nervous to sit with.
I know him pretty. I know himreally well. Now.
He refers us, but I'm still, you know,I still prepare for this guy. He.
I set a statement
(13:15):
and he said, Todd, is that what you think,or is that what you know?
Yeah.
And he said it.
My brain,my processor, took a second to process it
and I went, oh, crap,I know what he's like.
And I'm like, that is so smart.
Like I use that all the time.
(13:35):
Is that what you thinkI, I use it on myself.
Is this what I think or what I know.
The only way to truly know something Iyou typically take it back to metrics.
Yeah.
So $200 shoot photo and drone.
Craig how long of an appointment isthat. Let's and okay.
So I'm sorry.
Let's define this photo and dronejust for the sake of this.
Perfect for this, illustration that photos
(13:58):
you're going to shoot 30 to 40 photos.
We don't do number of photos.
We do it by square footage. Craig.
It's a 20 500 square foot house.
Maybe has one room in the basement.Finished.
And you want, dronethat's going to include a five shots.
Photos only.
So if the house is ready,you know, it's picked up.
(14:18):
We're not waiting for the sellersto have to hide things.
Maybe even the lights are turned on.
The blinds are open.
Best case scenario, right.
What, 30 photos plus, 4 or 5 drone photos,I don't know, 20.
There.
It probably take me 35 minutes.
Maybe 40.
Yeah, tops. Yeah. Okay.
Let's say 45 minutes because you're goingto talk a little bit 45 minutes.
(14:42):
Sure. Okay.
And just for actually let's I like
taking best worst casescenario let's say 60 minutes okay.
All right.
It makes for easy math too.
When we figure an hourly rate okay.
So 60 minutes in thereI know many of you are paying
your photographers 25 to $35 an hour.
Again, let's take worst casescenario, 35 bucks an hour.
(15:05):
An hour times one hour.
You got $35. Photographer charges.
All right.
Now I understand there might be someoutline factors of where is this located?
And are you paying your photographerany mileage?
We can add some more injust for a worst case scenario.
When we begin to add this up.
Okay.
So that islet's call it $35 on a $200 job.
(15:28):
So the other item that we havewith cost of goods is photo editing.
And again, you're going to do, 35photos and five drone photos.
It's a total of 40 images.
Send them to auto HDR.
About $0.55 an image.
That's 22 bucks.
Okay.
If you're like, Todd, what is auto HDR?
Auto HDR is an AI photo editing.
(15:51):
We don't own it. Matt. Gia.
Fabulous individual on the real estatemedia company.
We've part we we endorse it.
We use it at Wow.
You know, we put thousandsand thousands of images through it,
in the last month,tens of thousands of images.
It's fabulous.
Great quality.
If you want to find outmore autohdr.com/spiro
(16:13):
or if you're in a Spiro useor just go to your integrations.
If you use that slash Spiro to sign up,you'll get free credits in there
to try it out. So give it a try.
See what it is.
It's about $0.55 an image based on volume.
Okay, Craig.
So 35 plus 22 is 57 bucks.
All right.
$57 on a $200 Alv is 57divided by two because it's 200.
(16:37):
That's a 28.5% cost of goods.
Okay.
So your cost of goods is 20.5%.
So the way I did that is youjust take your $57
divided by your $200 and that will giveyou the percentage of your cost of goods.
Okay.
So I can tell you, after looking athundreds of thousands of jobs and talking
(16:58):
to thousands and thousands of people,that that is a healthy spot for you to be.
at Wow our cost of goods,our photographer cost
is usually in the 30s, low 30s.
depending the market,we pay a little bit different based on
where the photographer is located,because cost of living is different.
(17:18):
And then our editing cost is 7 to 10%.
So we like to be in that mid to high 30s.
That's where we always land.
And we feel like we can keep good people,we people, you know,
our photographers can make a good livingso that they stay on with us,
we retain them,they feel like they can grow.
And that's the editing style.
(17:40):
Now, if autoHDRand then we have, you know, video editors
use the merge fleet, but we do have othereditors, QC and all that.
So 28.5% on the shoot,
just from a numbers perspectiveI say is pretty healthy.
So again, $57 is our cost of goods.
And we took our top line revenueor our order value was 200
(18:02):
%200 -$57 is $143 okay.
So $143 is your gross profit right now.
That's not your net.And that's at the bottom of the PNL.
So you still have to payfor subscriptions.
You have to pay for other things,whatever you have.
But just as a general math related item,
these percentages seem good to me.
(18:26):
And again, I'm not sayingyou should even do it at this cost.
Now there are some variables.
If you live in California, for example,
you are not paying anybody $35 an hourand keeping them.
I get that, okay.
The beautiful thing is your editingcost is still the same.
But you're I know you're not payinggood people that rate,
so you have to take thisinto consideration, right?
(18:49):
So from a math perspective,just looking at it, I'm sitting there
going, hey, this is pretty good.
Like I'm happy with this.
The one other variable, Craig,is the fact that if
if you are a solo shooter and this is notand it's not your goal
to maximize the amount of volumethat comes into your business,
(19:10):
you're going to think about this waydifferent, right?
Again, we have a different thought here atWow I think differently about this.
I want to do as many as possible.
Why we're going to hit about 13,500 jobsthis year in that range.
It'll be our best year ever.
And we want to do volume.
If you are a single shooter,you you probably should respond
(19:31):
differently to this text message.
If you're looking to have thehighest average order value.
All right.
And again, if that's your tact,which at one point in my career was
when I was on my own with my own company,I was a lower
volume shooter compared to say, wow,
yeah.
You're giving,hopefully an exceptional level of service
(19:55):
and weeding out the type of clientsthat are only shopping based on price.
So but again, you need that face to facerelationship building component
even more critically,to dive into the questions
you know, that you need to askand build a relationship with the client.
And the right client will be incrediblyloyal to you despite price.
(20:17):
Yeah.
So that's that's that's the route.
Let's take that scenario, Craig.
Let's talk about the pivot.
The pivot into and away from price only.
So moving
into that, let's go back to that textmessage.
You've already offeredsome great suggestions of how to respond.
(20:40):
We feel strongly that you need
to get the conversationout of that text message.
But Craig, let's just play the what if
game, let's say,and we're all busy out there.
I talk to many of you, I know you're busy.
I know you, you are trying to hireor you're behind in hiring.
Your business is growing,so it's exciting.
(21:02):
But the thought of taking one more meeting
right now is just overwhelming.
I understand that I have been theremany times,
and I have a fabulous large teamthat helps me and I.
I don't want to take for grantedthe times that I look back
and I was like, man, I just
(21:22):
the thought
of one more meetingjust like might break me.
Like, I just don't know whereI'm going to pull the time.
So I feel you on that.
So we're going to pivot away from that,and we're going to give you
some ideas of how you can break this downa little bit more in a text message,
even though my gut says Todd,just tell them
that they have to sit with this person.
(21:44):
But I remember the timeswhere I felt like I was going to break.
So some things you could respond toin that text message
is the first thing is, as Craig,in that text message,
we haven't really even definedwhat photos and drone is right?
Right.
So in terms of the number of shots,things like that.
Yeah, yeah, I had I had one of our VIPs
(22:08):
contact me one time.
It was towards the end of a of a contractwith him, and he price shopped
and I was not offendedor surprised that he price shopped.
You should expect all of your peopleto price shop you.
You should expect all of your employeesto look for jobs.
Okay?
I had in the pastbeen surprised about both of those things.
(22:29):
Many times it took took me a lot of workto learn from me.
I'm a pretty dense brain person,but I've learned to
not be surprised thatpeople want a better deal or a better job.
It's just your responsibilityas the owner.
So this VIP email me, he called me,I have that relationship.
He called me, said, hey, I'm just,you know, we're at the end of the year
(22:50):
and I'm looking at volume,looking at price for next year.
And I've got a couple thingsI will run by you.
I got a quote from a competitor.
Can you take a look at it?It looks like it's pretty good.
He emailed it to me okay.
So I looked it over and I went, there'sno way I'm going to compete
with this price.
Like it was like, there's no wayhe had, photo drone in there.
(23:12):
He had Matterport.
He happened to useMatterport on everything.
And I looked at itand it just seemed like I was worlds away.
Craig.
Like, like,we're going to lose this guy like he did.
He was doing about 100 a year at thattime, and now he owns his own brokerage,
like he was growing like crazy, and I knewhe was going to be an owner one day.
And I was like,how are we going to do this?
(23:34):
Well, what we had to start to dois we had to start to ask questions.
So we looked at the competitor,we looked at what they were delivering.
We asked for examples.
He gave them to us. Remember,I had the relationship.
I can ask those questions.
I worked with him for five years now,
and as we started to see these things,we realized that the competitor
was using a non Matterport Pro.
(23:57):
I think it was a Pro twoat the time camera.
But using a theta camera as a 3D tourslook like crap,
like it was the low level theta camera.
Well, the thing about the theta camera isthe fact that you can get through a house
a ton faster than the Matterport camera.
The. For those of youthat don't shoot Matterport
(24:18):
or don't know about the Matterport camera,it scans.
It actually spins on its base,at least at the time.
I don't know if they do anymore,
but at the timethe Matterport camera would spin
and it would take like a minuteto spin around and then it would have to
process.
Well,the theta camera does it almost instantly
because it has 180degree lenses on each side of the camera.
(24:39):
So you hit snap,you hit capture and boom, it's done.
It doesn't have to spin.
So we started looking at this andwe're like, oh, this is not our product.
And then we looked at drone.It's like, well, wait a minute.
This is not this doesn't have video on it.
Some things he hadn't been getting,
he's like, oh for droneI really just want the front and the back.
I just want two images.
I don't need this other stuff.
(25:01):
So long story short, Craig,we had to do an apples.
The apples are oranges.
The oranges comparisonwas apples to oranges at the time.
I was trying to fit our superior product
into a containerthat was completely different.
Okay, so long story short,we looked at that.
We actually came up with a term.
We came up with a new productcalled Matterport Light.
(25:23):
We already had the cameras come on.
We are scanning other thingswith the cameras.
He was happy with that quality.
And again we are like, hey,are you happy with this quality?
Look at our quality. Look at his quality.
He said, yeah,I'm actually happy with that.
I just use it as a feature benefit.
I need it to get listings.
Yeah, okay.
No problem.
(25:44):
Then we went back.
Look at what our drone packages have.
This is what you're saying you want.
Are you good with literally two photos?
He was.
And we came upwith a custom thing for him.
Now I will sayyou do not want to do custom.
We had a commenter on Facebookmake a great message
or had a good, good, comment about like,do we want to do custom for everyone?
(26:06):
How do we protect our clients?
You don't want to do custom for everyone.
Again, this client did 100 a year with meand now he owns a brokerage.
So you're going to have to pickcertain times for this.
But we retain that client.
We created new thingsbecause we wanted to retain him.
But our goal was to retainhim and still be profitable.
So every caseis going to be a little bit different.
(26:28):
And you got you got to run run it throughkind of a matrix of questions.
And what's the word I'm looking for?
Is it proffitable
Yeah.
This is a profitable for usstill to do this.
Yeah.
And one client,it might be profitable in another.
It might not.
Yeah. It might not be.
(26:48):
And you are going to get sorry, Craig.
You're going to get some of those dyingpumpkins on the vine.
We've talked about that before.
There's going to be some messagesthat come in and it's a dying pumpkin.
You just need to cut it off the vine,be it and be very respectful to them.
Yeah.
He's we were on a coachingcall the other day and this topic came up.
I actually brought upbecause I really like this conversation.
(27:09):
I think there's a lot to learn here.
Steve had an example as to where we hada client come in very similar,
and we molded a few thingsand we molded the package.
Again, it was a big client,
it was a company client,and it was a very low average order value.
But we built the relationship,we got the business.
It was a lot of volume comingin, and their average order
(27:31):
value has goingup, has gone up over a third
in the like the three yearsthey've been a client with us.
They went from spending about,
you know, are actually went up about 50%because they were about 200.
And now they're at 300.
So it does take time
sometimes for clients to understandthe value that you bring.
(27:52):
Right.
And if you're starting with a new clientthat is
initially only looking at small packages,you know, CFO, the only type of deal,
Todd, you've brought this up.
I saw one of your responses onon Facebook. You brought this up there.
There was a period of timein our, in our company
that we weren'tinterested in a photo only.
But you started rethinking thatwith the leadership team.
(28:14):
Can you share a little bit moreabout that, that decision making process?
Yeah.
So yeah,walk us walk us through that. Yeah.
So it almost seems silly to say we,
we thought about these clients like thisat a point in time, but it's true.
Like we would look at clientsthat came in and did photo
only jobs and we'd be like,oh, it's photos only like it was.
(28:35):
It was a term like their photos,only it it meant not a great thing.
And so at Wow, 80% of our jobs
include videoand we've always marketed video.
Again,our company is called Wow Video Tours.
I didn't even do photosfor the first 3 or 4 years of business.
So we packaged those things together.
(28:56):
And that leads us to a ton of flexibility.
Different podcast, different idea.
But we would get new clients that came inand they would order
photos only like, oh,they're photos only like.
And we'd kind of brush them off.
And that is a that's a dumb thing.
And it was,
it was by farI'm just going to say it was,
(29:16):
it was dumb to kind of think, wait, why?
These clients are photos only and it is
because your clientshave to start somewhere, right?
You know, you can't expect like ifif you are doing things
differently at your companyand you have these higher end products,
you can't expect your your clientsto come in and know about them.
(29:38):
You'll have some of the better marketingpeople come in and request things
and ask for new things, and they'll helppush your brand and your services.
But if you really put your selfin your client's shoes,
remember they're busy.
They are wondering how they're goingto get their next listing,
their next buyer,
(29:58):
their
one, and how they're going to payfor the marketing,
how they're going to
pay for the same post,how they're going to pay for their dues,
how they're going to payfor all of the other things.
They're small business owners.
You know the feeling when it's just you.
So when you bring them inand you build that relationship
and you show, show them the value,
they're going to doa lot of different things for you.
(30:21):
Number one, they have a great potentialto order more from you.
They're going to order again and again.
Our photosonly price and made sense for us.
We considered it profitable. It was.
So why would we be unhappywith a job that's profitable,
right?
And especially a job that's profitableeven at a smaller
(30:42):
margin that could lead to largermargins down the road?
Is that realtor grows their business.
And that's kind of always beenmy passion is especially helping
newer realtors get their feet under them
right away with really good photos.
They might not be able to affordpaying for the video
right off the bat because they've got athey've got a ton of startup costs, right?
(31:04):
And starting their real estate business.
So if you can build that relationshipand build that trust by just giving them
a fantastic service, even on photos only
the go getters,the ones that are really motivated,
they're going to keep workingon building their business.
And if you're there at at ground levelwith them
with just a basic photo only service,but consult with them about thinking
(31:27):
about the future of growing their brandas a realtor and introducing some ideas.
They're going to considerthat they might not be able to do it
right in the momentis their getting their business going.
But as they grow their business andbecome more well known in the community
because they're all about networking,that's how they build their business
and they're all able to offer sellers
(31:48):
more and more servicesas they grow their business.
You're right with them growing with themso it might be a lower average order
value to start, but stick with themlong term, because on the opposite
end of the spectrum, you've got older,older realtors that are starting.
They might loveyou and be super loyal to you,
but they're slow in their business downbecause they're approaching retirement.
(32:11):
I've got some of those clients that evenjust three, you know, 3 or 4 years ago,
they were they were big hitters,but they're approaching retirement.
And they've told me, Craig,you know, I'm slowing down a little bit.
Well, you got to remember that funnel,that sales
funnel, right, that you're going to havesome leaving your business.
And if you don't have new businesscoming in and be willing
to make that shift from an average ordervalue, you're going to catch yourself
(32:36):
in a catch 22and business can start to spiral or down.
So it's always refreshing that funneland remembering both both ends
of the realtor career spectrumthat was leaving in those just getting in.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah that that's a that's a great point.
And there is more valuethan just this one shoot right Craig
(32:59):
I mean that you know, if you look at itfrom a one shoot perspective, you know,
you might not make a huge amount of money
on this one shoot,but this if, if you accommodate.
And again, I'm not saying you shouldand maybe you say,
hey, I've got a new client discount,I think there is value
in getting the client to shoot with youat least one time.
(33:21):
Yeah, I think that's just the tipof the iceberg, Craig, I don't know.
What do you think?
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
I mean, there'sthere's a lot of factors to consider.
I just I'm thinking about one client
that she does, a lot of high end listings.
Well, she does some high end listingsand some more average listings,
and she doesn't necessarilyuse this on her average listings.
(33:43):
I'm working on that.
But she's been getting moreand more higher in listings.
And so she's using us a little bitmore consistently.
Well, she recently I thinkI talked about this a couple podcasts ago.
She she had her highest listing value,property ever at close to 3 million.
And she was only going to do photos onlyonly going to do photos, video and drone.
(34:04):
And I talked with her about being oncamera to help her build her brand.
And she was super nervous, but she did itand she was super glad to.
Todd.
We just had another listing from herand she said, Craig,
I want to do thatagent on video camera again.
Now she was super still super nervous.
And you know, we walked through that.
But in just one listing of doing that,she realized the value
(34:28):
of that additional service,of being on camera and
and so but that doesn't comeuntil you've built trust.
Yeah.
So be willing to take the smalleraverage order value to start
and build a relationship.
And that business will grow.
That's my take on it.
Oh for sure.It comes down to that lifetime value.
And those are thingsthat you're going to see.
And your metrics dashboardyou know in Spiro.
(34:51):
So there are also a couple of other thingsthat you're not going to see.
Or you maybe are right there.
But this this client, if they love you
and become a raving fan,they're going to refer you.
Yeah. Yep.
And that is going to continueto push revenue into your company.
So that's another opportunity.
(35:13):
The last
thingis if this individuals are raving fan,
they're going to be potentially
a lead to the brokerand assign a broker deal.
The idea I talked about some some leadingindicators of getting a broker deal.
And the biggest oneis sell through our support
(35:33):
or the number of agents that you haveat the company.
It's very difficult to have 1 or 2 agents
or a small percentage of the agentsat a company
and to go and get a broker deal,
because you're going to ask for a meeting.
The broker doesn't know you.
The broker hasn't heard about your name.
This all takes time.
Your your companyname has to flow through.
(35:55):
You have to get agents that
recommend you.
You have to get agentsthat say your name in team meetings.
You know, it's this idea of thatthe broker needs to hear your name
so many timesbefore you're even on their radar.
This is no different.
Let me just put this in our situation.
But think back towhen you were looking for a photo editor.
(36:16):
And this the idea of like,if you message in a particular Facebook
group, say, hey, I need a photo editor,
you're going to get 3 million photoeditors.
That email or Facebook message. You.
Right.
But if you
see a post from another photographer
that says,hey, I'm just really trying to help.
(36:37):
Like I have a photo editor and he has heor she has a little more time to do
photo edits.
I've really loved this person,just trying to help them out.
If anybody has some jobs, here'sour contact information.
Which one is more impressionable
and your mind? carries more weight
It's word of mouth advertising.
It's the same thing with a broker.
(36:58):
So one more agent is one agent closerto you having enough pull at the company
that you get a broker deal, or you justsell through to a lot more agents.
It's this idea of this tipping point.
And sometimes in life I look backand I, I was pushing the car up the hill
and I
was so close to the tipping point,I just got tired.
(37:19):
I'm like, it's never going to work.
It's not going to happen.
This and I needed to just haveone more contact, one more person,
and it would have pushed the car overand then I would have been beyond
that tipping point.I would have been gone downhill.
You just never know.
The odds say onemore is not going to do it,
(37:40):
but you just don't know when one moreis actually going to tip the car
and you're going to hit momentumat that company, right?
I just imagine there's still
some, some, photographers out thereasking the question, though.
Do I want to race to the bottom?
Yeah, but I thinkI think it's more nuanced than that.
You have to you have to run it
through a series of questions of what'swhat's the long term value?
(38:01):
Is it really a race to the bottom?
And sometimes it is.
But I think in some cases it's,
it's going to be worththe initial lower cost.
And in some cases it's not going to bebecause you're, you're always
you don't be surprisedthat you're going to have some realtors
that are only interested in price.
Like, like you said before,don't be surprised by that.
(38:24):
Yeah.
Craig let me ask you a question
and I'll say individuals namebecause I know him well.
But Ron, Ron mentioned in thereand he said mentioned my name.
He said but would you charge an agent lessthan other agents.
That doesn't exactly seem fairto the ones that pay full price.
He said, unless you mean
lowering your price for everyone,what are your thoughts on that, Craig?
(38:45):
So we've struggled with that question.
But we answered it witha an agent discount program.
Or it's the
the decision is based on volumewhich is then fair for everyone.
And you explainand you can explain that, hey,
the more you're able to shoot with us, youknow, the better price we can give you.
And we, we want to give you a better priceand help you grow
(39:09):
so that, you know, you can move up thatthat tiered pricing level.
So that's how that's how we've handled it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And if you takeif you take this opportunity,
if this is a new client for youand you have you create some sort of
new client discount and it could beeven be on the fly and say, hey,
(39:29):
you know, this iswe typically are 295 for photo and drone.
You know, I want to understand,you know, what you're looking for
and make surethat we exceed your expectations.
I have a promotion going on right now, orI can meet that price for the first one.
I just ask that you give honest feedbackabout the meeting, and we look at
(39:49):
if there's any ways that we can improveyour marketing for future listings.
If you give some sort of picture of that.
Ron, I agree with you.
I don't thinkjust because an agent text message
and ask for the $200 price,you can't honor that forever.
I think it's valuable money to discount it
for the opportunity of whatthe agent could bring.
(40:13):
That's good, that's good.
Yeah, but I believe fullythat you need to be able to justify.
You need to assume every agent knowswhat everyone else pays,
and you have to be able to justify itas to why they get that discount
agents
do talk amongst themselves,even between brokerages.
Just know that.
(40:34):
Yeah, I've actually had a managerdirectly asked me that question.
So and I had to be honest because I knewthat he knew what the pricing was.
So don't try and skate around it.
Just be upfront andand yeah, like Todd said, have the reason
and the justification of thatfrom a business standpoint.
(40:55):
Yeah.
Craig, I think at some pointwe talked about pricing tiers
or I have a talk out theresomewhere. Steve has one.
That's the way we come about it.
If you're looking for that,just do a quick search.
But we may.
Everybody's fair
because they fit into a pricing tierlike Craig mentioned based on volume.
And the quick pivot is like, hey,I know that this agent gets a lower price.
(41:16):
Can I get that same price?
The response is,we would love to give you that price.
This is what you need to do to qualifyfor that program.
We need to get you doing 40 listingsa year and then you can unlock that price.
And better yet, if you do 100 listings ayear, we can even give you a lower price.
You just send them all that informationso they know.
(41:37):
And then it's equal playing fieldand nobody's played favorites, right?
Right.
It's business.
I think most, most levelheaded businesspeople understand that.
Well, volume basedpricing is not a new thing.
It's expected I, I had a previous salesrole and and that's what we did.
(41:57):
You know based on volume.
Here's the pricing that we can give you.
So nothing unusual okay.
Yeah.
Something you canyou can be comfortable with. So.
Well excellent ToddI think that covers it pretty well.
Do youdo you have any final thoughts or. Yeah.
Just what's your opinion?
Let's keep the discussion going.
(42:17):
I think this is a great onebecause this is something
that's very commonand it might come in many different forms.
You're always going to get thisif you're doing even a,
a presentation at a, at an office,an office meeting, typically
the first question is if you don't passit, a price list is what do you charge.
So we need to figure out a
(42:38):
way to hit this head on to,
to be able to hit it in strideso that you have a good response
so that you can keep people interestedin you so that you can really see
the full opportunityof what that client can bring, right?
I could even make a joke about it,you know,
in a presentation and have the havethe pricing sheet right at their desk.
(43:01):
And, you know,if you have the pricing sheet
at their spot on the table,that's the first thing they're looking at.
I see them looking at the pricing sheetbefore I even open my mouth.
And so just address that right upfront and say,
hey, I know you're looking at pricealready.
You've got it.
We're not trying to hide anythingand that,
but then go through your presentationon on the value that you bring,
(43:24):
and maybe even have some storiesready of, of some success stories.
We all relate to stories.
We are a story driven people.
So if you've got some success storiesthat you can share, especially
if one of those success storiesis in the room at the time.
I've asked that agent,especially if if I know they're
a raving fan to share their testimony,and that's powerful.
(43:45):
Yes, that all goes into buildingthat relationship.
And those people will stay loyal.
They will pay more,they will upgrade more.
They refer you.
And those are the clients that you want.
Yeah, exactly.
All right.
Yeah.
If you've got a story about pricing,we'd love to hear about it.
(44:05):
If you're watching on YouTube,feel free to leave a comment
and maybe how you've you've handled it,because we want to hear
all of your storiesand your your ways of addressing this.
This is a community, right?
So leave a comment.
We would love to hear your,your examples of how you've dealt with it.
And, be sure to give this a, likeif you've found some value in it and,
and or share as well.
(44:27):
If you subscribe,you get a little bell notification that,
shows when, when we, up,you know, upload a new episode,
which is typically every Wednesdaymorning, here in the US.
So, we do is just really appreciateyou guys watching.
And if you have a question,a business question,
you know, like,like we saw from this Facebook question,
(44:47):
drop us a line at hello@spiro.media.
We would love to hear from you.
And we do we do respondto those and look for those emails.
All right, Todd.
Well, thank you for the insight this week.
Appreciate it.
Great discussion. Great to be here.
And, you know, just one more conversationthat as you do these
and they're going to get better too.
(45:08):
The first time you doit, it's going to be terrible.
Anybody got blew. That thing.
I've blown many first conversations.
I've blown many 10th conversations.
But the 11th is going to be the one
where you're like, dang,I did pretty good on that one.
So just keep trying and keep analyzingwhat you're doing.
Put push through,because the longer you're in this,
the more comfortable you're going to get.
You always want a littleI think you always want
(45:29):
a little bit of nervousnessjust to keep that edge. Right.
But as you buildloyal customers and clients,
it will build your confidencein what you're doing with your business.
And, and you can present in a more,just a more confident
way, when you're at that brokerage,presentation.
So, stick with it.
Don't get discouragedif you're facing some challenge right now,
(45:52):
you might have a ton of competitionin your market.
Just give your bestand keep plugging away because
we we believe you can succeed.
So all rightwell that wraps up another week guys.
Thank you so much for taking time.
We know this is the height of busy season.
So the fact that you're making time to,either watch or listen does not
(46:13):
that does not go unnoticed.
So we appreciate that.
And, just make sureeven during the midst of busy
season, it takes some time to be thankfulfor the blessings in your life,
because we all have blessingsthat we can be thankful for.
And also make sure you take a breath.
All right. Have a great week. Take care.
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