From Patrols to Prose: How Adam Plantinga Blends Cop Life with Thrilling Reads

Welcome to the 235th episode of The Thriller Zone with Dave Temple. Get ready to dive into the thrilling world of Adam Plantinga, whose latest book, *Hard Town*, promises to keep you on the edge of your seat!

Right off the bat, we’re unpacking the gritty reality of policing, which Plantinga knows all too well after 24 years on the job. He shares some surprising insights about human nature and the hectic life of a street cop that’ll make you rethink everything you thought you knew from the movies.

We chat about Adam's journey from the police beat to penning captivating thrillers, with plenty of laughs and some serious moments sprinkled in.

So, grab your favorite drink, settle in, and join us as we explore the wild ride of writing and the fascinating tales that come from the front lines of law enforcement on your #1 Podcast For Thriller Fiction, Film & TV...TheThrillerZone.com!

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we chat with Adam Plantiga about his book 'Hard Town', which takes readers on a thrilling ride through unexpected twists.
• Adam shares insights about police work that challenge common perceptions, revealing the complexities faced by street cops every day.
• We dive into the importance of realistic depictions of violence in thrillers and how it affects storytelling with genuine consequences.
• The conversation highlights Adam's evolution as a writer, sharing invaluable lessons learned from his journey in crafting compelling narratives.
• Listeners will discover how humor plays a role even in serious discussions about policing and the intricacies of human nature.
• We also touch on the collaborative nature of writing, including how feedback from editors shapes the final product of a novel.

Links referenced in this episode: adamplantinga.com

People and companies mentioned in this episode:

• Universal
• Adam Plantinga
• Harlan Coben
• Gregg Hurwitz
• Meg Gardner
• Nick Petrie
• Joseph Finder
• Jeffrey Deaver
• Rachel Howzell Hall
• Bruce Borgos
• Jay Bell
• Jack Stewart

ARE YOU NEW TO THE THRILLER ZONE?

Host and former radio star David "Dave" Temple interviews the biggest, brightest, and best thriller writers of thriller fiction, thriller and mystery films, thriller and suspense television, and more. With four years on the podcast, nearly 25 years of radio experience, and another 15 years as an actor and voiceover narrator, Dave has the credibility required to access and interview the very best and New York Times bestselling authors in the world. Tune in each week as he breaks down the magic, or the "secret sauce" of his guests. During his segment called "Best Writing Advice," Dave's audience learns the very best insights to what makes a super successful thriller fiction writer.

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Keywords: podcast episode, Adam Plantinga interview, Hard Town book, thriller fiction, police insights, law enforcement stories, writing thrillers, character development, realistic fight scenes, street cop experiences, crime fiction, author...

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Guess who?
Dave Temple here, your host.
So glad you're here.
On today's show, 236, Ibelieve it is.
Adam Plantiga is here with abook called Hardtown.
This is one of those booksthat you pick up and you think, oh,
this is going to be a nicelittle slow boiler.

(00:24):
And then it gives yousomething more.
I could talk about it, but Ireally do it a lot of justice inside
the show.
So why don't you and I gettogether and welcome Adam, right
here on the Thriller Zone.
First of all, welcome to theThriller Zone.
Nice to see you here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I have been listening to yourpodcast and really enjoying it because
I don't.
Remember exactly where wepicked up because we were doing some

(00:45):
chit chat in the green room.
It was about a year ago, ayear and a half ago.
I got your book.
It was the Ascent.
I remember the book covervividly because it reminded me of
Joseph Finder and kind ofJeffrey Deaver.
They always have magnificent covers.
And you know, I'm kind of ahorror for a nice cover.
Yeah.
So that came down the pike andI went, wow.

(01:05):
And then I read just this weekand I feel like I'm late to the party
on this.
But that's okay.
Cause it happens every once ina while.
You got picked up with anoption by Universal for tv.
How cool is that?
Oh, it was.
It was fantastic.
And the best part was, youknow, my agent did all the work while
I just sat in the corner andmade sarcastic comments, which is

(01:29):
an arrangement I'm verycomfortable with.
And then this morning as I wasgetting ready to get up early, walk
the dog, hang out with mywife, I pick up.
You were so kind to send me acopy in PDF form of these 400 Things
Cops Know folks do.
Do yourself a favor, we'regoing to talk about this in a second.
Just.
Just stop what you're doingsometime between now and the end

(01:50):
of the show and go pick upthis 400 things cops know by Adam
street smart lessons from aveteran patrolman.
Of course you're going toorder this little bad boy at the
same time.
Hardtown.
Come on.
Now.
You're going to put lovetowards your friend Adam here.
I learned so many insidescoops, things I thought I knew.

(02:12):
And I've.
You've probably heard this ahundred times, so forgive me for
my stupidity, but I'm like, Iwatch a lot of tv, I thought I knew
all this stuff.
And you kept referencing.
You probably saw this intelevision and it blew me out of
the water, dude.
There's so much about the jobthat I think people don't quite understand,
and there's no reason for themto unless they're doing ride alongs

(02:33):
or unless they're in the car.
So I wanted to sort of unpacksome of that.
I thought, or my hope was thatpeople would find that interesting.
Well, now there's a couplethings I Learned.
You've been 23 years.
23.
24 years as a cop, right?
Yeah, about 24 years.
Okay, so 7ish in Milwaukee PDand then San Francisco.
16.

(02:53):
And San Francisco is one of myfavorite cities of all time.
That's where I met my wife.
I mean, that's where she's from.
And I thought, man, if I could.
Next time up in San Francisco,do you live in city proper or on
the outskirts?
I'm on the outskirts in theEast Bay.
Okay.
I love it.
Well, if I'm.
Next time I'm up there, I'mgoing to ring you, we're going to
go out for a cup of coffee,and I'd love to do a ride along with

(03:17):
you.
That would be so.
It's fun.
Amen.
God, that would be fun.
All right, first of all, letme say this couple things.
I'm gonna split the conversation.
And you got, you got enough.
You got like a half hour.
You got time, right?
Yeah, you bet.
Okay, I'm gonna do about halfof you as a cop, half of you as an
author, because I'm fascinatedby both sides.

(03:39):
I've never seen anyone climbso fast with publishing.
Well, maybe I've seen a few,but very few.
And, and, and you're writinglike you've been doing this for decades,
so I'm impressed.
One little note in here.
Now, he had to navigate thepuzzle of how to be without her.
Some days he was functional.

(03:59):
On others, his grief felt likean undertow that hid in the waves
and then pulled him out intothe deep for some reason.
That was such a great line,especially the way you juxtaposed
it to love.
And I almost drowned off thecoast of Nicaragua a few years ago,
and I got caught in anundertow, and it scared the bejesus

(04:21):
out of me.
And so I thought about thatwhen I read it.
But then I thought, wow, lookat the way he juxtaposed something
that could be horrific likethat with love.
Well, I appreciate that.
I, I have.
I, I married well above mystation, so that's, that's helped

(04:42):
me, you know, I, I know whatsort of Strong feelings for someone
feel like and sound like.
So that's helped me.
That helps me write passageslike that.
Yeah.
Well, what's.
I want to.
I want to drill into some of the.
Being a cop because I'm.
First of all, I have suchhigh, high respect for you and the.

(05:04):
The job that you've chosen.
High respect.
What is you.
What would you say?
One of the most surprising things.
And I'm going to say what'sthe most.
But I may say what's among themost, because people often, they
get freaked out when they go,well, wait a minute.
What's the most.
Most surprising thing I'velearned about human nature from years
in law enforcement?
God, there's so many.
So just the first one popsinto your head that most civilians

(05:27):
like me may not expect at all.
Hmm.
I think.
And this is actually somethingthat came up at a writing conference
I was at just the other week,a thriller fest where we were talking
about writing realistic fight scenes.
And what we talked about isbeing in an actual fight is exhausting.

(05:55):
You know, you have authorsthat write long fight scenes where
people are punching each otherin the face without a lot of ill
effect.
But even boxers who aretrained fight for three minutes and
then take a break.
You know, if you try to hit aheavy bag, hit it for as long as
you can and see how long ittakes for you to become utterly gassed.

(06:18):
Most street fights are withbetween untrained people.
A lot of it resorts to sort of what.
What you did when you were inthe fourth grade.
You know, a lot of slap fights.
And they're over pretty quickly.
Yeah.
And they're not pretty.
Yeah.
Well, one thing that.
When I was reading 400 Thingsand I'm talk.
I'm going back and forthbetween hardtown and 400 things,

(06:40):
so just bear with me, folks.
But what I.
One thing I learned about itwas interesting.
Everyone thought.
Everyone thinks when they seea bad guy run, that cops will all
go running after him.
And.
And I'm going to paraphrase this.
At my age, this particularinstance was probably you speaking.
If I'm gonna try to chase aguy who's half my age all the way

(07:01):
down there, and I hope, and Ihope by the time I reach him, I've
got enough juice in themachine to still beat the crap out
of him.
May or may not happen.
So I'm gonna let him go.
Right.
That's one of those things.
Yeah.
There's.
You gotta leave a littlesomething in the tank, because if
you're around the corner it'sjust the two of you, and if you're

(07:23):
completely spent, you're,you're going to lose that fight.
And as a cop, you, you maylose a fight.
Yeah, here's one more thing,and then I'm going to move on.
My wife and I watch a lot ofshows now.
John Wick is probably not thebest example of this, but I'm going
to use it anyway.
Guns, gun, gun, gun, gun, gun.
Just hundreds and hundreds of bullets.

(07:45):
And John, all the guns.
Yeah.
And, and, and John never gets hit.
However, then I'm reading thatbook this morning.
I'm like, I was surprised athow many times you and your cohorts,
your fellow comrades in arms,would roll up on a situation and
there would be all thisgunfire maybe within 10, 15ft, and

(08:06):
no one gets hit.
How does that happen?
Yeah, I, I found that fascinating.
Um, you know, there's somefundamentals of shooting, you know,
grip and sight, alignment and stance.
And if you don't practicethose, it's, and especially if you
add stress and sort of panicinto the mix, it's not difficult

(08:28):
to miss everything you'reshooting at.
Uh, so, you know, we, I, I, Iwas at a scene once where someone
emptied a magazine at, at a house.
I mean, a target literally thesize of a house and only hit it about
five times.
I mean, it's, if you don'tpractice, it's amazing how inaccurate

(08:49):
your shots can be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, now, now many peoplehave strong opinions these days about
policing right now, and, butmost have never, as you mentioned
earlier, have ever done thejob rightly.
So what is something you wishthat the public could understood
about what it's really like tobe a cop on the street?

(09:09):
And then we're going to moveon to your book.
But.
Yeah, you know, I think thatone thing it's important for the
public to know is as a streetcop, you have to come to the table
with a lot of skills.
I mean, one day you might beresponding to a shooting scene, the

(09:30):
next day, serious car collision.
You know, you might be talkingwith a member of the board of supervisors,
and then you're talking to aprostitute who's been abused to a
small child, and you're tryingto figure out if they know the difference
between a truth and a lie.
I mean, you have to, you haveto have a pretty wide skill set because

(09:54):
there's a lot coming at you.
And I don't know, I don't knowif the general public sort of appreciates
that kind of thing.
I, you you make a superb pointbecause you have to be.
You have to be an enforcer, apolitician, a priest, a friend, an
enemy, all simultaneously.

(10:15):
And the thing that alwayswhacks me out is the fact that you
have to make split decisionsin microseconds because you don't
know if somebody's reaching intheir pocket to pull out a phone
or reaching in their pocket topull out their ID to say I'm okay,
or if they're going to pullout a gun.
I learned little things likeif they turn to the right, they're

(10:36):
trying, they're tending tokind of hide the gun.
So.
But, but the, the point is,just the amount of instantaneous
judgments you have to make is crazy.
Yeah.
What someone described the.
The job sometimes is you haveto be able to.
I mean, you're sort of in thisconstant state of suspicious readiness

(10:57):
and you want to be civil witheveryone you encounter, but you also
have to be able to go fromzero to Hulk in about three seconds.
I love it.
All right, let's talk aboutKurt Argento.
And by the way, right here onthe front, this, this caught my eye
this morning.
Plantiga will soon join theranks of child and Conley.

(11:19):
This is from Douglas Brunt,New York's Times best selling author.
That's high praise.
It is huge high praise.
And I thought of the same thing.
It had a very Conley feel to it.
Very Bosch and even pre Bosch.
I mean, just some real.
Yeah, that high accoladesbecause you deserve it.
But, but tell me about yourmain character here and, and what

(11:43):
makes him tick and how much of you.
I know this is classic, buthow much of you is in him?
Right, so he is a ex cop from Detroit.
He was a street cop for mostof his career, including a stint
on swat.
He loses his wife, so he'strying to sort of sort his way through
how to live without her.

(12:05):
And in the first book, theAscent, he gets caught up in a riot
in a maximum security prison.
And in the second book, A HardTown, he is house sitting for a friend
in a small Arizona town andmayhem ensues.
He's sort of a meat andpotatoes guy.

(12:26):
He's not a detective, but he'sable to sort of figure things out
because he's tenacious andhe's got good instincts.
We have some similarities.
We have a somewhat similaroutlook on policing.
He may be a slightly betterfighter than me, which is a admission
I make grudgingly, but, youknow, he's good with tools.

(12:55):
I can't fix anything.
He likes low and Brow and Idon't drink.
I mean, that's just thesparkly magic of fiction, Dave, that
I'm employing.
I like in the opening scene,it reminded me much.
I thought of Jack Reacher, soI hope that's a compliment.
When he.
Oh, for sure, yeah.
Rolling into town, doing histhing, having some pie, just leave

(13:19):
me alone.
And these people all aroundhim trying to, you know, pull him
into the world.
But, you know, it.
The one thing I loved aboutthis book, it was like sitting in
a bar listening to war storiesfrom a veteran cop.
Was that conversational?
No.
No BS tone, Something you.
You consciously crafted, orjust how the stories kind of came

(13:43):
out of you as you started writing?
Yeah, I mean, that's a goodquestion, I think.
I mean, one of my veryfavorite parts about being a cop
is just the conversations you have.
Yeah.
With some of my co workers whoare some of the funniest and bravest
and most insightful folks I'veever had the pleasure of hanging

(14:03):
out with.
I mean, the conversations arethe best and I think I just take
some of that.
So the spirit of thoseconversations and it filters into
my writing.
You know, I don't know how it couldn't.
That's another reason I wouldlove to be in that drive along, because
you get to see, you know,behind this.
Behind the curtain.

(14:24):
I'm a big behind the curtain fan.
And you get to see it and hearit in real time.
You know what?
Another thing I loved aboutthis book, it's structured in these,
I'd call them collection ofvignettes and versus, like, what
would you call it?
Chronological memoir.
Right.
So what informed that decision?

(14:44):
Because that's a prettyspecific decision.
And it.
And it felt different,differently than the Ascent?
Well, I'm safe to say that.
Yeah, I mean, I think with theAscent, most of the book is set within
the confines of a maximumsecurity prison.
And so it's a little bit claustrophobic.

(15:04):
And with Hardtown, I just.
I wanted to kind of go moresort of open world, you know, go
outdoors.
Take this.
Take this sucker outdoors.
Yeah.
And I've always beenfascinated by the desert.
Just sort of the hard, cleanlook of it.
And so I wanted to.
You know, they say in a bookseries, every entry has to be the

(15:26):
same, but different.
So I wanted to.
I wanted to explore a littlebit more with the, with the second
book.
And that included the structure.
Now that just triggered a thought.
What have you.
What have you learned now inyour sophomore book that you.
In this entire process,including Thriller Fest, which you
just Attended.

(15:48):
What have you learned that youhad no idea was going to be the case?
Like, you're like, oh, you'rereally surprised that blank happens
in this world of writingthriller fiction?
Yeah, I think one of thethings about writing a thriller is
the story has to move and it'sgotta be lean.

(16:12):
And part of my learningprocess has been to take out all
the extra stuff to take outall the fat.
And I've.
I mean, that can be hard todo, you know, sort of the whole killing
your darling thing.
But I've had a lot of helpwith that, both from my agent who
reads my stuff, and my editor.
If you've written a passagethat you're really proud of and sort

(16:34):
of, you're sort of impressedby yourself, but it doesn't propel
the story forward, just gotta go.
And that sometimes has beensort of a hard lesson, man.
I think that's probably one oftwo things that I have learned over
my years of writing is if,and, and, and it's.
You put it so well, you'recrafting something you like.

(16:55):
God damn this thing.
This sounds good.
And listen to that.
That's sexy.
Oh, that's, you know, but if something.
Yeah, look at me.
Oh, but if you come back.
I always do this.
I come back the second day andI re read what I wrote the day before.
And sometimes, like, you know,that was really cool yesterday, but

(17:18):
it's not really moving thestory forward.
Yeah, I think that's a, that'sa good way to go.
Yeah.
And then you go, well, maybeI'll, I'll just, I'll leave.
Should I leave that?
No, I'll take it out, but I'llput it over here in this notebook
because it's so good.
Good.
I'll use later.
Yeah, yeah, maybe you can saveit for a rainy day.

(17:38):
You know, there is a fineskill, as you very well know, in
writing violence and tragedyand without being, especially these
days, without beingexploitative and sensational.
So how do you, how do you findyourself, Adam, walking that fine
line between when, whenturning human suffering into compelling

(17:59):
narrative?
You know, because you, you,you don't want to glorify something,
but you want to get thetension and anxiety and angst going.
How do you walk that line?
Yeah, I, I have talked toother writers about that, and I think
the folks that I admire themost and what I try to do is when

(18:22):
you're writing violence, it'snot just violence for violence sake,
it has to do a couple things.
It has to move the story forward.
It has to be consistent withthe character.
And also, you know, theviolence should have sort of real
life consequences, bothphysically for the character.
You know, if he hurts his backin chapter two, then how does his

(18:46):
back feel when he's drivingover a potholed road in Chapter 4?
And also know violence kind oftakes a toll on you.
It should be.
You know, I try to be sort ofthoughtful about it.
Even if a good character isdoing something awful to a bad character
who has it coming.
You know, I think a littlemoral reflection about that is.

(19:06):
Is probably the way it should be.
Well, and I'm going to take itto a finer point because you have
this ability to find darkhumor and really pretty horrific
situations without makinglight of the victims or.
Or they're paying.
So maybe this is the samequestion, but a little bit different.
How do you calibrate thatbalance as a writer?

(19:28):
And did your editor push backat any time on how far you should
go?
Yeah, I was definitely inconversations with my editor about
sort of the intensity andmaybe the graphic nature of some
scenes.
Sort of the.
I think the prevailingphilosophy is you want to.

(19:50):
You want.
If you want to write a grittystory, that's fine, but you don't
ideally want to gross people out.
Right.
I think that's kind of the line.
And honestly, I don't know ifI always follow that, but that's
in there somewhere.
I wrote a book a couple yearsago called Devour, about a prison

(20:10):
warden who had a secretpassion for cannibalism.
Okay, I'm in.
I. I want.
I want that book.
How do I get it?
I'll send you a copy.
I'll send you a copy if you'llgive me a review for it.
How about that?
You got it.
All right.
And it isn't.
You think to yourself, oh,geez, it's Hannibal.
Well, it's kind of HannibalLecter meets the Shawshank Redemption.

(20:33):
But the point was, is that Iwanted to show his bent sickness
without being overly graphic.
And I.
And it probably took aboutfour edits until I went, okay, now
it's not over the top.
So you're not going to be completely.
Because there were some peoplewho were my beta readers going, dude,
that's just a little bit too far.

(20:53):
Yeah, so.
So there is a fine linebecause you.
You don't want to.
Because there's also this.
Adam, tell me if you agreewith this.
There is a point by.
Where you may take them out ofthe story because you.
You find yourself going, didthat go too Far.
And if it goes too far, then they're.
They're taken out of the story.
They kind of step back.
They might even put it down.

(21:14):
So you.
It is a fine line, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.
And I think smart authors willwrite scenes where some of the violence
is off the page or some of itis just sort of suggested at.
So, you know, something awfulis happening, but you're not necessarily
getting sort of the blow byblowing account of it.
Yeah.
So it achieves the same effectwithout being too gratuitous.

(21:36):
Yeah.
Now, in Hardtown, one of thethings I probably most admire is
how you and we've touched onthis, how you're so brutally honest
about your own mistakes as acop, which, you know, you don't hear
that every day.
Were there moments where youthought to yourself, adam, do you
think maybe I shouldn't haveput this in print?

(21:59):
I think the.
My guiding philosophy waseverything in the book is true, and
I don't mind.
I don't want to embarrass anyof my coworkers, but I'm okay embarrassing
myself.
I mean, you know, there is noperfect human endeavor, Dave.
We're all flawed creaturesdoing the best we can in a broken

(22:21):
world.
So, you know, if people couldlearn from my mistakes, I was all
for it.
I mean, I think I didn't wantto just write about triumphs.
That's not what the job is.
Hey, let's go off script alittle bit and go, what, what have
your buddies, your pals, yourco workers, male and female, what

(22:41):
did they think about this book?
Have they read it?
What are their thoughts?
What kind of feedback?
Yeah, you know, they.
A lot of them have read 400things cops know, and some of them
I actually quoted in the book.
And then in my fiction, in theAscent in Hardtown, I've used a couple
of their last names ascharacters or some of the minor characters.
They, you know, they get akick out of that.

(23:02):
Sure.
I mean, I think my novels arethe kind of books that cops would
tend to read.
They're sort of two fisted andmove pretty quickly.
But it's funny, you know, I.
Cops being cops, I have, youknow, they like to rib me.
And for instance, the.
The picture on my book jacketfrom my novels is a.

(23:22):
You know, I have sort of lowoverhead, so my wife took that picture
and I didn't do a lot ofstyling for it.
She just kind of took it.
But, you know, it's.
Yeah, it's maybe a little bitof a tough guy pose and so they made.
They made a point to say, youknow, it looks like you're having
bowel trouble in that picture.

(23:44):
I got a kick out of that.
That's hilarious.
You know what?
You know what it says to me?
And I'm going to pull it up onthe screen a little bit later.
It.
Look, here's what it says to me.
You sure you want to do that?
You know what?
I like that better than Bottle Trouble.
Yeah, let's go with your take.

(24:05):
Yeah, I'm going to.
I'm going to do the same thing.
A and B, here's A, I got toshit my pants, or B.
I.
Don'T think you want to do that.
B, let's do B all day.
Okay, good.
Thank you.
And scene.
Thank you.
By the way, this is a bit ofan aside, but I was listening to

(24:26):
your interview with AdrianMcKenty where you did a.
Just a fantastic.
Casey.
Case of impression.
You're.
I mean, that was.
That interview was justdelightfully everywhere.
I am so glad you said that,Adam, because sometimes I wonder,
do people give a shit if we gooff on tangents?
To me, the tangents are myfavorite thing in the whole world,

(24:49):
and nobody does tangentsbetter than Adrian McKenty.
Matter of fact, I'd pull himback on the show just to do the tangents.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was fun.
That was a lot of fun.
This is Casey Gam on the top20 countdown.
Yeah, there it is.
And part of the reason is,dude, you know, my first career was

(25:11):
in radio, right?
So when I was 15, 16, that's,you know, I'd listen to the cats
out of Chicago and Detroit onshortwave or AM radio.
And then down the road when itgot going and I heard about this
guy named Casey Kasem and keepreaching for the stars, and I thought,

(25:31):
holy, that's exactly what Iwant to do.
And.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, thank you for that.
Love the tangents.
I always.
It's funny because thismorning when I was on the walk, I.
I had.
And I'm glad you said this,because I thought, I want to ask
Adam, because you're a guy's guy.
You're just, you know, and you're.

(25:52):
You're in a.
You're in a tough workenvironment that asks you to more
or less put your life on theline every day.
And so when you get off thatrivet, you got to ask yourself, you
know, God, what.
What can I do to let loose andjust relax and.
And.
And see the light side of things?
So I was going to ask you whatis something?

(26:13):
And you just said it.
But I'm going to ask you againas though the Adrian comment wasn't
made or, or you have a second one.
What's something you'velistened to?
Because you're now right hereat the tip top of season nine in
our fourth year and I knowyou've been listening for a long
time.
What's something you've heard,heard or an art, you know, an author

(26:33):
that has said that.
You walked away going, that isa defining moment.
That is something I'm going touse and work on from here on out.
Yeah.
You had an interview with NickPetrie, who I love, who's a good,
good dude by the way.

(26:54):
Oh yeah.
Where he talked about somewriting advice that was basically
tell a story on a moving sidewalk.
So you know, don't justdescribe a room in sort of a static
way.
Describe a room as a charactergoes into it or as a character gets
punched in the face.

(27:15):
Sort of doing two things at once.
And that's, that's the kind ofthing that I gravitate towards because
it makes you sort of thinkabout the structure of a, of a story
in, in a different way.
You know, that is such asuperb example.
And I have, I told my wife oneday I said I'm gonna go back to all

(27:39):
almost 300 episodes and pullout all the best writing advice,
which is my closing questionfrom every single one or one highlight
like Nick Petrie's of everysingle one and dad Gummet.
I just don't have thebandwidth at the time to do that
because I've got, I've justwrapped a non fiction, I've got this

(28:00):
fiction that I'm working on,I've got two more in the pipeline,
this show, etc.
Etc.
But man, if I, if I could evertake the time to do that, I could
probably turn that into a bookand just sell it right there because
it just, it nails it right.
There's, as they say, there'sgold in them hills.

(28:22):
Well, I wanted to say that Idig this.
I dig the COVID I want to say,is it by, Let me see.
I was going to say it wasCarol Teague Johnson, but it's probably
not.
Who did the COVID Oh yeah,Steven Attardo.
I love the COVID So good.
It's just got that greatwashed out look.

(28:42):
Just so many talented artiststhat work on book covers.
I really started appreciatethem more now that I'm writing.
In my opinion and I know this,my listeners know this well to me,
the success of a Book Jesus is True.
Do I.
Do I really mean this?
I think so.
50%, 40%.
Maybe I'll go 40.

(29:03):
40% is the COVID Yeah.
If I look at a cover and itdoesn't pull me in or make me go,
oh, they really spent the timeon this and did.
Then I'm like, if you didn'tspend the time on the COVID I'm not
going to read your book.
I think this is probably a 19.
Somewhere between a 68 and a 72.
I'm going to go 72.

(29:23):
Could be 73 Ford F150.
The reason I know that is thatthat is one of my dad's first work
trucks.
One of the first vehicles inour family I learned to drive on.
No power steering, no powerbrakes, no power windows, no AC.
AC is for WIMPs.
Yeah.
What are you, some kind of puss?

(29:44):
But growing up in the south,as I did come July, August, like,
we're in right now.
As I talk to my family andthey're like, oh, I'm sweating bullets.
And I'm like, yeah, SanDiego's kind of nice.
It's 72 and sunny with low humility.
Anyway, that's a complete.
Yeah.
And I. I love how the.
The title Hardtown is writtenwhere the.

(30:05):
The letters are actually sortof on fire.
Yeah.
It's just those nice little touches.
It's like a vapor that's going away.
Yeah.
And you go into a bookstore,there's just so many choices.
So, you know, if the COVIDpulls you in and kind of speaks to
you, then that's a win.
Did you see.
Did you hear my chit chat withRachel Housel hall on Fog and Fury?

(30:30):
I have not yet.
Have you seen that cover ofher book?
Yes.
I have not.
Hold that thought.
Okay, you got it.
See, I can do shit like thisbecause it's my show and nobody can
tell me what to do or not to do.
You're running things.
Fog and Fury.

(30:50):
Look at this one.
Look at that.
That's quite striking.
Quite striking indeed.
The color of the green and the.
I mean, I told her I thoughtit was the Golden Gate at first,
and then you realize, ofcourse it's not or the.
But anyway, that's just sweet.
Here's an.
While we're on show and tell.
We're going to come back to you.
Don't go.
Don't worry about this.

(31:11):
I have not read this yet, butI'm looking forward to it.
J.
Bell.
Joshua Hood praises it.
Welcome to Cottonmouth.
Check this one out.
How cool is that?
Oh, Nice, isn't.
Doesn't that just saysomething like, you're.
Like, I would pick that.
You know, I see that cover.
I'm going to pick that book upand take a look.
See, this is what I'm saying, folks.

(31:32):
The reason I'm doing show andtell, and if you're just listening
to this and not able to watchit on YouTube, I. I pity you.
But, yeah, I am such a fanatic to.
I think it's because I'm acloset artist, having sketched and
painted my whole life.
And when I see things that are really.
When it's balance and it'scolor and it's saturation, somebody
really took the time.

(31:53):
It impresses me.
Now, along the lines of yours,because I've got this cat coming
up.
I want you to look at the.
I'm going to show you first.
Now.
Super, super simple.
For some reason, it gets me.
I don't know why.
Blue Horse.
Yeah, I've seen that coverbefore, and I was quite taken with
it.
Bruce Borg is going to be onthe show soon.

(32:14):
Look at the color.
Look at the color similarity.
Yeah, yeah.
That said, that's one I wantto pick up.
Porter Beck.
This cat has really dialed it in.
This is only his second book.
He's the nicest cat, too.
Just.
Just pure gold.
He's.
He's talking about coming downand see me right here in San Diego
town.
I blew him most recentlybecause I had some health shit, but,

(32:36):
yeah.
Anyway, folks, once again,people are loving.
Listen to this.
Meg Gardner.
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna close on some real bangers.
My good friend, one of themost delightful women writers in
the world, Meg Gardner.
She rules.
She's.
There's.
There's few better.

(32:57):
Hardtown knocked the breathout of me in the best way.
Gripping, fiercely propulsive,and vividly written.
It grabbed me from the veryfirst word and never let go.
Yeah, that.
That's just someone who's verybusy being generous with their time.
I really appreciate that.
And I have, as you mightimagine, I have a little inside scoop

(33:18):
on the world of thrillerfiction, because I've been doing
this for four years.
I remember when I started thisshow and my hair was brown.
It's now quite gray.
The pod takes a toll.
The pod kicks me in the shortlayers, so I know what it takes.
And when you go to ask writersof this caliber, Meg Gardner, and

(33:40):
the next one, you know thatthey're really doing you a solid.
Greg Hurwitz, Orphan X cat.
There's a guy who knows how to Write.
Yes, he does.
He brings the cop's grittyauthenticity and a poet's lyricism
to Hardtown, elevating thisfine novel above the pack.
We'll be reading Plantiga foryears to come.
What a delight.

(34:03):
Yeah.
I got to see Greg atThrillerFest, and my plan is to try
to stand as close to him aspossible to see if it'll somehow
make me a better writer.
He's a funny, funny guy.
He.
He was a co MC for thebanquet, and he's just got a.
He's got good comedic timing.
Yeah.

(34:23):
For some reason, I don't knowwhy you don't expect him to be so
funny, but when he relaxes, hereally does shine.
Yeah, he brings it.
Yeah.
Greg, I'm not saying you're uptight.
I'm just saying.
And I'm going to close withthis, and only because it's one of
my favorite authors.
And dad Gummet, if I haven'tbeen able to get him on the show.

(34:45):
Adam, I bang on doors.
I remember back in the daywhen I would bang on a door for months
and months, maybe years, and Iwould just.
I'm.
I'm that tenacious that justsays, I'm going to keep knocking
until you say yes or no.
Yeah, if you say no, I'll goto the next door.
But Harlan Coben, who I met atThriller Fest 2019, up on stage,

(35:07):
we sat and chatted, laughed,had a hoot.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna getthis guy on the show.
Cannot get HC on the show.
So anyone listening who hasconnections to Harlan, get him to
say yes.
Yeah, he's writing.
He's got shows on Netflix.
I think he just co wrote abook with we.

(35:30):
Reese Witherspoon.
He's.
He's in high demand.
Well, and that's.
I'll.
I'll cut him enough of a slack.
But as you can see, you and Iare 37 and a half minutes into this,
and I don't think it's goingto ruin your day by spending 37 and
a half minutes with me.
Okay, okay, let me finish withhis quote.
The ascent is jaw dropping,authentic, and absolutely gripping.

(35:50):
All right, book mic drop,ladies and gentlemen.
You want to learn more, go toAdam Plantiga dot com.
It'll be on the screen.
The book is Hardtown.
And by the way, when you pickthis up and it's only.
What is it?
Support your authors, forcrying out loud.
We're all in this together,for crying out loud.
$30.
That's right.

(36:11):
30 bucks.
Pick up 400 things cops know.
I think that's, I want to say,like, 14.95.
Yeah, sounds about right.
Like that.
Drop the 45 bucks.
You'll thank me later.
I'm not getting any kickbacks.
I'll be.
Although I'm gonna get a freeride along when I go to San Francisco.

(36:31):
Let's do it.
Adam, dude, thank you so muchfor your time.
This was absolutely a hoot.
Oh, thanks for having me.
I've really enjoyed listeningto your podcast, and it's a real
privilege to be on it.
Privilege is mine, sir.
You are on your way.
Your number one podcast forstories that thrill the Thriller

(36:52):
Zone.