January 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Have you ever felt stifled by a micromanager?
In this engaging episode, Patricia and Julianna dive deep into the nuances of micromanagement versus structured leadership. They explore how micromanagers often act out of fear and insecurity, leading to a lack of trust and autonomy for their team members. Julianna shares practical strategies for navigating these challenging dynamics, emphasizing the importance of proactive communication and understanding your manager's expectations.
By fostering a supportive environment, you can not only ease the tension but also enhance your professional growth. Tune in for valuable insights on managing micromanagers effectively.
This episode is part of the Elevated Leadership Series, co-hosted by Julianna Yau Yorgan and Patricia Ortega.
Timestamps
- 00:00:00 - Understanding Micromanagement
- 00:01:48 - Micromanager vs. Highly Structured Leader
- 00:03:43 - Identifying Micromanagement
- 00:07:34 - Long-Term Consequences of Micromanagement
- 00:09:30 - Strategies for Managing a Micromanager
- 00:19:05 - Maintaining Personal Well-Being
- 00:22:06 - Filtering Feedback from Micromanagers
- 00:24:08 - Job Searching for a Better Fit
- 00:27:01 - Asking the Right Questions in Interviews
- 00:34:04 - Key Takeaways
Elevated Leadership
Elevated Leadership is available on both The Uncommon Career Podcast and The Daring to Succeed Podcast.
Listen to the Daring to Succeed Podcast to get to know Julianna: https://www.jyycoaching.com/podcast/
Connect with Julianna on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliannayauyorgan/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
oftentimes these micromanagers do have trust issues sometimes
stemming from real situations in their past in
their career where they were out of the loop on something and
then they got caught they're basically over adjusting for
something that's happened to them that's negatively impacted their
career before. What's worked really well for me, what's
(00:22):
worked well for people I've coached is taking one
thing to start that they're very concerned with and
just giving them micro-updates throughout the day with
what's going on. It might seem like a lot, but
they will barely notice that you're constantly bombarding them
with updates if that's how they're asking for updates
(00:43):
or that's how they're dropping into your day that's probably their expectation
It sounds like, wait, hold on. So the answer is to coddle my manager is
what you're saying, right? And I just want to be really clear that that's not
the goal. The goal is to understand
who your leader is, what's important to them, adjust your
communication style. It's a win-win situation. You've
(01:06):
now decided, okay, this is what's important to my leader. And this is how
I'm going to use that. I'm going to figure out what the game is. I'm going to
do the strategy and I'm going to win the game. Hey
everyone, welcome back. I am Patricia and I'm here with Juliana. And
today we're going to be talking about micromanaging. So if you've got a
(01:28):
micromanager on your team, go ahead and grab your
coffee, grab the tea. Let's get into today's episode.
One of the things that we were talking about, Juliana, that I would love for you
to start with was your mention of micromanager
versus someone who's just highly structured. How do
(01:48):
Yeah, it's sometimes a really fine line, especially with
all the different personality types that we're dealing with on a regular basis.
But I think the best way for me to describe it is
someone highly structured has actually thought through what they want. They
can articulate it. They can tell you upfront, this is
what my expectations are. We're a micromanager. knows
(02:11):
they need the right outcome, but they almost can't really articulate it.
So they just constantly barrage you with, oh, don't forget about this.
Oh, no, that's not what I want. Hey, do this. What's going on? Like
it's much more chaotic than someone who is just
Oh my gosh. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. There's the, you
(02:32):
said it really well. You have a process in your mind and someone who's
highly structured can put that process on paper and then trust that
someone else will follow it versus a micromanager is
like, read my mind. And when you can't read my mind,
I'm going to take over the process. So there's this, both this
like inability to hand off the process and provide expectations and
(02:52):
rules, but then also the fear and worry that it's not being done
Yeah, and I think that my way is maybe the key point where
it's more about how they think it should be done versus like
a codified way of, hey, we do this for a specific reason.
Hmm. Yeah, I know. I
(03:13):
this all sounds so familiar. All the the
memories are rushing back to me. Right. Of I
am not. communicating what I want in a way that you can
do it independently, but it has to be done my way,
even though I haven't done the work to, you know, lay that
process out. And so a couple of ways to identify
(03:35):
micromanagement. I was looking at, you know, what
are some different ways that we can say, okay, this is
micromanagement. This is, you know, lack of a structured environment
or whatever it might be. You can identify micromanagement because
first what we all know excessive oversight constantly
wanting to know what you're doing are you doing it well and you don't actually
(03:57):
know what well is having too many check ins a
low trust environment meaning you always feel like. their
way is better than your way, even though you've been hired as
an expert to do the job you're going to be doing. Invasive communication.
So we're talking emails over the weekend. We're talking, you
(04:17):
know, having to be copied on simple communications,
you know, across departments or across functions, and
just not having decision-making ability, having to move the decisions
over into their desk before it's approved so that you can actually take action on
it. So you're more of a worker bee than someone
who brings the expertise that you were hired for. Is
(04:40):
there anything that you would add to that, like from experience of, you know, what
I'm just thinking back because I've talked to a few people about their
micromanagers recently too and I guess
one thing to add would be someone who's not just
not giving you any decision-making ability, but
(05:02):
they're not even taking your input into consideration
right it goes back to your point about you haven't been hired
for your expertise you're just a doer where maybe they
bring a concern to you and say hey i need you to do
it this way and if you can logically explain this
is why i think we should do it a different way the response is
(05:22):
kind of like an experienced parent who's like, well, because I
said so, right? It's less
about doing things a better way or a logical way
or adapting to the situation. It's I'm the boss, so that's why.
Oh my gosh, that's so true. And I remember always
wanting to understand like, why do you do
(05:44):
that? Like, where does that come from? And one of the things I've noticed
over time, and then also just researching this,
is that a lot of times micromanagers mean well, but
it comes out of a focus on self and out
of a fear of failure. If you don't do well, it
reflects poorly on me. So I have such a
(06:06):
need to look good, to
look accomplished, to not have failure on my plate,
on my record, right? That I have to make sure that you
don't fail. And it's less of a reflection of you as the employee
that they don't trust you, but it's that they're
so fearful of failure that they don't even want to take a chance.
(06:27):
And so the focus isn't on you, believe it or not. As a micromanager, it's
typically like a thing about themselves more so than one individual
Yeah, I totally agree with that, especially like, even
if they do see the reporting chain
the way it is, where as your leader, they're ultimately accountable
for the quality of your work for your success, where
(06:51):
it could be this deep rooted fear that they failed as a leader because
you're not successful. And their way
of solving for that is well do it my way because my way
works for me so it should work for you the end
right like it's more about this is this is the only
way i know how to be successful this works for me i know
(07:12):
it i trust it so you just should blindly follow
this path and you won't fail even if
you do even if it's uncomfortable right like it it's they're
so fearful of failure that they don't see the value in
their staff learning on their own from
(07:34):
It is. And you know, the part that's so, I
don't know if the word's irony, but, you
know, when you're in this place of,
I don't want to fail, so I'm going to make everyone basically be
a robot controlled by me, what happens
is you don't allow people to kind of get into their zone of genius. Number
(07:56):
one, it brings motivation down. Like, I don't know about you,
but I am not motivated when someone says, don't think, Just
move your hand this way, move your hand that way. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm so
demotivated and I also have no room
to learn. So even if I was motivated, I have to do exactly what
you tell me. I don't think, it's just rote action. And
(08:17):
I feel like at that point in the long term, there
is failure because you have a team that hasn't been
developed. This is what's interesting. The dynamic that
takes place is that now the micromanager feels like they can never leave
because they always have to tell you what to do. And so this is
where, you know, we'll get into this later in the episode,
(08:40):
but in my mind, this is where you want to start thinking, okay,
I need to get my stuff together to change to a different department. If
this doesn't work out, like, just think ahead. Not that you have to put
in your two week notice, but that you're like, Hmm. Long term,
this is where micromanagement leads to. It leads to a team that's
demotivated. It leads to a team that hasn't been developed. It
(09:02):
leads to a manager who is stressed because they
can't take a vacation or they don't feel like they can take a vacation. And
ultimately, when you see where this ship is going, right,
this is where you want to start getting prepared in case, you
I totally agree. And from what I'm
(09:23):
hearing right now, just with the people I talk with and
my clients, there are a lot of these micromanagers out
there. So maybe we can like shift gears a little bit and fill
in that gap of, okay, you're there, you've got a micromanager, not
quite at the point where you're ready to leave or you can even
leave. kind of what
(09:45):
are things that people can do right now to
better manage that? Because my starting point has always been, look,
it's completely futile. I
don't know the word. Futile? Futile, yes.
To think that you can change your manager. They
(10:06):
probably don't see the downside of
what they're doing. If they did, they wouldn't be doing it. right
so let's start with don't try to change your manager you're
just going to be frustrating them and you're
going to set that relationship in the wrong path but
what are some of the things that people can do right now to kind
(10:28):
of ease that pain of having someone breathing down
Yeah, so here's the thing I found it so interesting that you
said try not to change like don't try to change someone.
And what I think of is tackling this problem
head on directly is probably not the way to go saying, hey,
(10:51):
you know, maybe you can let me do this, this and
that without you, like that's not going to
work. But what you can do is proactively anticipate
specific situations or specific environmental factors
that can help ease their nervousness
or desire to control, fear, failure. One
(11:14):
of these pieces is, I think it's helpful going
through the, Going through the evaluations,
through your meetings with your boss, having more communication, and so
that your communication is focused more on being
proactive and less on being reactive. If you as a
teammate are reactive and respond when
(11:36):
this micromanager gives you feedback, that's going to perpetuate the
pattern. But if instead you set up expectations and
you say, OK, what is expected of me? What's the outcome? And really kind
of show that you're partnering with them and that you care about the
project as much as they do and that you're taking their input on
what's important to them. That's going to be give
them a little bit more of that ease. And then if you communicate frequently
(12:00):
at steps saying, I know what the outcome is. I know we talked about your
believing that these are the ways to make it happen. Here's some ideas that
I have, but making sure that their input, like they get
a chance to speak at every opportunity so that
they don't feel like they're. like
things are being done in quote unquote, a different way. Ultimately you'll
(12:22):
garner more trust. And that's what really that fear
is going to start to dissipate once you start garnering more trust. So
those are like the first few things that I would say, help you
set an environment where a micromanager, and I
don't want to say this word, but I'm going to say it, but where a micromanager can feel a
little bit more safe to take a risk on
(12:42):
a team member, um, to let them think on their
But I think building that safety is actually really,
really key, because one of the big things I've noticed with
micromanagers is that they don't feel safe
with their team members. Not because of their team members, but because of
(13:02):
however they're reading the situation. I'd
almost push what you're saying to the next level
and suggest, if you're comfortable with it, super
over-communicating with your manager on everything that
you're doing. Not all at once, not for everything, but
for those key things, what's worked really well for me,
(13:25):
what's worked well for people I've coached is taking
one thing to start that they're very concerned with and
just giving them micro-updates throughout the day with
what's going on. It might seem like a lot, but
they will barely notice that you're constantly bombarding them
with updates. If that's how they're asking for updates
(13:47):
or that's how they're dropping into your day, that's probably their expectation,
is this concept of constant communication where,
you know, things I've done is, hey, had a conversation with
so-and-so about this, this was the outcome. I'll see that it's
been read. They may not respond. I'm
not even asking for approval or
(14:09):
confirmation or a decision or anything. Just, hey, this is what's
happened. I'm going about my day now. And then here's another thing
that happened until they actually tell you to stop. And
I've actually seen some micromanagers love that and
not ask for that to stop. Again, it may
seem like a lot of work, but once you get going, it almost feels
(14:31):
like second nature where it's like, all right, I've done my thing. I've updated my
boss. So they've got that feeling of safety that they know what's happening.
right that they're not out of the loop that you're not doing something behind their back
because oftentimes these micromanagers do have trust
issues sometimes stemming from real situations
(14:52):
in their past in their career where they were
out of the loop on something and then they got caught right
or somebody came to them and said why is this going on i
can't believe it and they didn't even know that was going on so they're trying
they're basically over adjusting for something
that's happened to them that's negatively impacted their career
(15:13):
Yeah. And as you're talking, one thing that came to
my mind is, okay, yes, we are working on
creating a quote unquote safe space. Right. Which sounds, could
sound, especially if you've been under the eye of a micromanager
and it's frustrating and you're like, I'm sick of this. Right. It
sounds like, wait, hold on. So the answer is to call it on my manager is what
(15:35):
you're saying. Right. And I just want to be really clear that we're That's
not the goal. The goal is to understand
who your leader is, what's important to them, adjust your
communication style, not for, it's a
win-win situation. It helps them be a better leader.
It helps you have a better, um, experience in
(15:57):
your workplace. It also helps you to advance because when
it comes time for those conversations, when it comes time to
figure out who's going to move up and how they're going to move up, you've now
decided, okay, this is what's important to my leader. And this is how I'm going
to use that. I'm going to figure out what the game is. I'm going to do the
strategy and I'm going to win the game. And so it
might seem as though, wait a second, wait a second, hold on. This
(16:20):
is supposed to be correction for my leader. Right.
But this is part of managing your manager, that it is not
necessarily correction that's going to win the game. You've got to figure out what game you're playing politically
and then use the right strategy. And, you know,
going along with that, one of the pieces that
I think can also be helpful along with that communication is,
(16:42):
you know, that leader is going to want to kind
of have surveillance, right? Like what are you doing? What's going on, right?
And so what you can do is very subtly sort of place
a boundary on the surveillance and instead focus on support. So
providing them proactive ways of here's a couple of ways that
I could really use your support. So you're inviting them into your
(17:03):
work so they feel the involvement, they feel the input, but you are putting
parameters around what that is, or at least suggesting parameters around, you
know, I could really use your help in this and this part. I feel really confident about
what's going on here and I've gotten your input, but if you could help me with this over here,
that'll almost like give them something to do while you
(17:24):
Yeah, I really love that because both with that strategy and
improving your communication so that it matches up
with your manager's expectations, as
long as you're paying attention to how they respond, you'll very quickly be
able to tell what they care about and what they don't. Because
as you were talking, Patricia, about how you can Ask
(17:48):
invite their their input invite their support on
the specific pieces that you want them involved with. If
they say I don't care or however you
like or whatever terminology is giving you
free reign on that particular thing, then you know
(18:08):
they're not going to micromanage you on that piece. You're
almost indirectly asking for permission to do
that on your own. or they're giving you permission because
they've been asked for it. Where if they actually care, like
let's say you've been asked to write an
executive summary on something that the team is working on to
(18:31):
help her with whatever, and your manager has
a specific way of writing things, you could say, hey, I
really need your help with the wording of this piece of
whatever I'm writing. If they say, oh, I
know you're writing. It's fine. Don't worry about it. You don't need to worry
about it. But then if they actually carve out time to sit
(18:53):
down with you and work with you on that, you know instantly they
Kind of aligning your priorities with their priorities.
Exactly. And feeling out, not just setting
your own boundaries, but where are their boundaries? Where do they
feel they need to be involved versus those little pockets
(19:16):
where, okay, they can give up that control. Because
trust me, not every micromanager is going to want to micromanage
every single piece of what you're doing. They simply don't have
time. It feels that way because they're constantly there.
But Again, if you're paying attention
to the language that they're using, what they respond to and what they don't,
(19:39):
you'll be able to start picking up on what are
the pieces that worry them that you need to keep them closer on.
Yeah. I think that makes a big difference. Just, just
paying attention. Like where's that 20 80 divide that's going to
make a really big difference. And you know, as that's happening, it
also made me think, okay, how do we manage
(20:02):
ourselves during that time? And it's
very easy to absorb someone else's anxiety about
a situation. And in the same way that they're projecting their
own fears and worries onto you, you could
easily absorb those. So I encourage you to be really intentional about not
taking in their stress as your stress and not taking in
(20:24):
their self-doubt as your self-doubt because then it becomes a cycle
where it's really destructive because now you have
two people, right? The team member or you and
the micromanager in this case, who both feel a sense of
anxiety, both feel a threat. Ultimately, instinctively
at the core, it's a threat. And so now it's us against them. They're
(20:45):
telling me I'm doing something wrong. Well, they're not doing a good enough job, and now
I'm going to fail. And so it's just a spiral. So maintain
your confidence, maintain your composure, recognize
that as a human, because you're not a robot, you're
gonna want some extra emotional recovery time.
This is going to the gym after work. This is listening
(21:08):
to something positive on your drive. This is having a bi-weekly
meeting with a mentor, talking
to someone at the organization who can help you navigate the situation. You
need those pieces because if you are working under
a micromanager, it is possible that
there is a, um, there's like the, uh,
(21:32):
what is the balance is off. So technically you're
kind of in the hole a little bit. So you have to come up with ways to
Yeah. And I think some of it too is. making
sure that you aren't internalizing their
exact words when they're telling you something's done wrong or
(21:55):
that it's not up to par or whatever where most
of the times I do recommend people pay close attention to
the wording but when it comes to a
micromanager criticizing your work ignore that
because whatever they're saying what they're trying to say is
(22:16):
that's not what i want right
it's not about you did it wrong or you um the
the outcome is wrong it's whatever
you did isn't what how i would have done it
and it's not how i want it done That's
all they're saying. They may be using all sorts of words. If
(22:39):
they have other insecurities, they may
be projecting the failure and the frustration onto you
and directly blaming you for something. But at
the end of the day, they're trying to adjust for not being able
to articulate to you what it is they want and
just kind of losing it. So
(23:01):
whatever that is, yes, absolutely. Like you said, Patricia, we
need that extra recovery time to kind of ease off
of that heightened emotional feedback that's
coming from a micromanager. But before we even absorb
it, it's filtering out, hey, whatever they're saying to me, they're
just trying to say that this is not what I want. So
(23:25):
the question becomes, what is it that they want? How do I deliver that
so that they can kind of back off a little bit next time so
That's so important. Okay, so let's say now, as
we start to wrap up, that you're currently
(23:46):
in this situation, you've got a micromanager and you're like, I want
to get away. So I'm going to be looking for a
different position or going on to a different team. When
you're going through the job search process, Juliana, what
are your ideas on how can we try our best
(24:08):
Oh, that's such a good question because I've found in
my experience, it is so hard, mainly because
micromanagers don't actually know that they're
micromanaging, they don't think that they're as particular
as they are with how things are delivered. all
of the micromanagers I've had, all of the ones that I've kind of deconstructed
(24:32):
with my clients, uh, think that
they're very easygoing, very open, supportive people, which
they may be in other respects, but
because that's the image they have of themselves, that's
what they're portraying to you in an interview. Right. So.
(24:53):
Trying to suss that out in an interview is really tough. I'd say
if you're vying for like an internal move.
just trying to get onto another team or trying to get promoted
onto another team, leveraging your internal network
is really good. So talking to other people on
that team to see, hey, who can trust
(25:15):
me enough to be open and tell me a little bit about what it's
like working for this boss? Even
if they don't want to come out and say that they're micromanager because
they might be a little bit worried that I'll come back to them, You'll
be able to pick up if they start to get uncomfortable talking
about like How flexible are they
(25:37):
or or you know, are they are they
there all the time when I need them? But
I find that asking a question about a process
that needs to be followed is a really good indicator because
if they start using terminology like oh, well, I always
have my people do this and then they're not
(25:58):
necessarily for sure a micromanager but that's probably a
good indicator that they're focused more on themselves than
the process. We're going back to our discussion about is it stickler
for processes is it someone who's just super organized versus
the micromanager. The organized
manager will be like oh well this is the process we just have to
(26:21):
follow it or this is the process and this
is why we do it this way versus oh this is
how I have my team do it. It is very
different in terms of how they approach a question about oh
you know what's the process for submitting, like
for requesting vacation days, or what's the process for this
(26:42):
particular piece of work that we've talked about? You can
kind of get a better sense of them asking a question
like that versus, oh, how do you assign work
to your team? Because micromanagers really
Interesting. You know, part of what came
(27:05):
to my mind in terms of like, okay, when you're in an interview with
a micromanager is very similar to what you mentioned, you know, we
talked about It's kind of like
on your resume. When you're a candidate, everyone's going to
say, I'm a team player. By the way, if that word is on your resume, I
need you to take it out. But when you look at
(27:25):
resumes, so often you see skills that
are soft skills that cannot be proven quantifiably.
And so this is why people say don't put soft skills like
explicitly on your resume if they are not accompanied by
a more tactical skill, by a measure, scope, etc.
It's because you can't prove them. I can say I'm a great team
(27:48):
player, but really I am terrible at being a team player.
And so this is where the vague questions like you mentioned, Juliana,
are not gonna be as helpful. Tell me
about communication between the
team and the leadership. And they're gonna be like, oh, communication's great,
(28:09):
It's so important. I inherently trust all my
teammates, right? Because everyone sees themselves that way. But
if you ask a really specific situation, think of it just
like if they're interviewing you, you're interviewing them as well. So ask a
specific question about one particular point in time. and
how that situation was addressed, especially if there's multiple
(28:30):
people on the interview committee, you really can't lie.
And if you can, you can see it in the other people's faces, right?
So you ask about a specific situation so they can give specific details.
And so a question might be something like, you know, I'd love to know about
a situation, an example. So those are the two words you want to use to make
sure it's a concrete example. example of a time when
(28:52):
there was a, you know, an employee wanted to
experiment and try something new, or there was a conflict
between an employee thought, you know, a teammate thought,
that something should be done versus leadership. How does that navigate it,
right? And then kind of pay attention to how they answer that question. And
feel free to ask follow-up questions, right, with good
(29:15):
intent, in good faith, productively, positively, humbly,
right? But ask specific follow-up questions that help you
understand exactly what happened, the facts. that you
can then interpret instead of asking, well, did
you micromanage? Instead of asking the straight up question,
ask the facts that will help you discern what actually took
(29:38):
Oh, I love that, because I'm just playing through some of those example questions
you had. And I think those are really good ones for even
if you're not trying to figure out if they're a micromanager, just to
understand how that team actually functions
together and how flexible the type of thought
(29:59):
process that your manager is going to have if they're asked,
oh, what if somebody wants to experiment with the process? If
you see people start to sweat, they're going to literally
pull back. And you'll see it if you're in person or
on a visual call or a virtual call, you'll see them pull
away from the computer because they'll be like, oh my god, we
(30:22):
can't experiment with process. That's the process. It has to
be followed versus somebody who might, like I
was thinking, what if I got asked that when I was interviewing someone?
Be like, OK, well, It kind of depends. Are
you experimenting with a proven process on
a high-risk project? Because no. Versus,
(30:45):
hey, is something not working well for us, and you're
going to try it out in an environment where
if we fail, it's OK. That
type of answer is going to be very different than, Oh, well, but
we have processes for a reason, and they have to
be followed for a reason. We're a very structured organization. Those
(31:07):
are huge red flags if you want
Yeah. And asking the question in sections
is also helpful. As you're mentioning that, you know, there's going
to be follow up questions that are needed, but from the beginning you can say, you know, I really
enjoy an organization that has a good level of structure, but that also provides
(31:29):
its employees, its ability to, you know, their ability to use their talents. And
so I'm curious what it looks like and you can say it right.
What it looks like in a relatively low risk situation. Can
you give me an example of? And so you're kind of prefacing it, so
you use less of the time on the back and forth. And then at the end,
you can say, I ask because I'm trying to
(31:49):
figure out, you know, the level of you
know, how much autonomy is encouraged. And
so you always frame it from a good place. If you were to say, I'm trying
to figure out how much decision-making power I have, I wouldn't ask that.
No. But I'm just curious what, you
know, how autonomy is encouraged or
(32:11):
how professional development, how learned by doing is
encouraged, right? So you're kind of saying, I'm
curious how amazing you are, as opposed to, I'm curious if
No, it's a great point. And even, like, let's say you
do all the stuff and you don't get the
job, you may have dodged a bullet. Because I can
(32:34):
see some micromanagers that I've worked with who would hear that and
be like, oh my god, they're asking me about autonomy. I
don't want to hire this person. So they were pretty. How dare they question me. How
dare they question me. How dare they ask if
they're allowed to make decisions. I'm the boss. Yeah.
But the managers you don't want to work with
(32:57):
if, again, you are seeking that autonomy,
you're not just looking for a job where you can kind of clock in, clock out,
those managers will filter you out automatically, right? It's
a two-way street where they're assessing your questions too, but
if you're asking those questions in an intelligent way, they'll
(33:19):
be like, they're really good, but I don't think
they're going to be a good fit for the team versus somebody who wants to
hire a person for their brain, for their ability to
think and react and respond on the job. They'll be like, okay,
this person's got some good questions and they're being very respectful about
it. And eventually they can have the
(33:40):
autonomy they need once they've kind of been onboarded and,
and I can, feel that they know what they're doing,
right, within the confines of our particular circumstance.
Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, we've covered so
much ground here. I'm just looking, right? We've looked at
(34:01):
what does micromanagement look like versus maybe just being
highly structured, right? How can you tell where
is it coming from? Right, we talked about a control field
of failure. It's about them, not necessarily about
you. They'd probably micromanage almost anybody on the team. We
also talked about different ways that you can hopefully reduce that
(34:23):
micromanagement, that sense of micromanaging that,
you know, need and desire for control and that worry and
fear. We talked about taking care of yourself and setting boundaries
and being able to kind of provide positive pockets
of reinforcement for yourself when working with someone so that you don't absorb
their stress. And then we also talked about how can we try
(34:45):
our very best to avoid and to discover when
someone is a micromanager before you get into
the work environment. We've covered quite a lot. Is there
Thanks. So I mean, like you said, we've covered so much. I
think if there was one, one thing I would encourage listeners
(35:08):
to take away from all of this, if you're dealing with
a micromanager right now is remember that
it's about trying to figure out how do you adapt back
to your boss not necessarily doing everything they're asking
for or changing who you are but how
do you meet them somewhere in the middle-ish in
(35:29):
a spot that is comfortable for you but also meets enough
of their needs that they're not like constantly concerned that
you're going rogue which of course you're not but
that's kind of the story they've told themselves about
everyone other than them. So how do you
find that middle ground that's okay for you, that feels
(35:51):
right, but still meets your boss somewhere so
that they're not constantly having to go to you because
And what about you? What's your one
I think for me, most of what is happening is not
(36:14):
actually being said. And so to just pay attention to those
underlying pieces that what's being said is typically
not the full story. In fact, nonverbal communication and perception
is more than 70, 80% of the story. So pay really
close attention to those pieces, both input, like
what you see from them and from the organization, but also what
(36:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've had such a great time, you
know, um, kind of talking about this and, and figuring out
how do we address this situation that can be so
draining for so many professionals. And so if you're here listening,
I hope that this has provided you just a little bit of a light at the end
of the tunnel, um, that you can either begin to
(37:02):
better manage your micromanager or that you can start
looking for something new in hopes that you won't have that situation in the
Yeah. And I guess for next time, if you've got topics
that you want to hear from us about, or you're dealing with a different
type of manager that's a real struggle right now,
just let us know. And we'd love to talk you through what our
(37:27):
All right. So this has been a great episode. Thanks again for joining us.
And Julianne and I will see you on
the next one. Bye. Bye. Hey,
thanks for listening. I really appreciate you spending time with me today. If
you found this episode helpful, please tap the five-star review on
(37:48):
the show's homepage in your podcast app. It would absolutely make
my day, and it helps others discover the Uncommon Career podcast. Now,
to download your free career resources and learn how I help
seasoned professionals land amazing offers in as little as
90 days, click on the link in the description or go to
theuncommoncareer.com. Thanks again, and
oftentimes these micromanagers do have trust issues sometimes
stemming from real situations in their past in
their career where they were out of the loop on something and
then they got caught they're basically over adjusting for
something that's happened to them that's negatively impacted their
career before. What's worked really well for me, what's
(00:22):
worked well for people I've coached is taking one
thing to start that they're very concerned with and
just giving them micro-updates throughout the day with
what's going on. It might seem like a lot, but
they will barely notice that you're constantly bombarding them
with updates if that's how they're asking for updates
(00:43):
or that's how they're dropping into your day that's probably their expectation
It sounds like, wait, hold on. So the answer is to coddle my manager is
what you're saying, right? And I just want to be really clear that that's not
the goal. The goal is to understand
who your leader is, what's important to them, adjust your
communication style. It's a win-win situation. You've
(01:06):
now decided, okay, this is what's important to my leader. And this is how
I'm going to use that. I'm going to figure out what the game is. I'm going to
do the strategy and I'm going to win the game. Hey
everyone, welcome back. I am Patricia and I'm here with Juliana. And
today we're going to be talking about micromanaging. So if you've got a
(01:28):
micromanager on your team, go ahead and grab your
coffee, grab the tea. Let's get into today's episode.
One of the things that we were talking about, Juliana, that I would love for you
to start with was your mention of micromanager
versus someone who's just highly structured. How do
(01:48):
Yeah, it's sometimes a really fine line, especially with
all the different personality types that we're dealing with on a regular basis.
But I think the best way for me to describe it is
someone highly structured has actually thought through what they want. They
can articulate it. They can tell you upfront, this is
what my expectations are. We're a micromanager. knows
(02:11):
they need the right outcome, but they almost can't really articulate it.
So they just constantly barrage you with, oh, don't forget about this.
Oh, no, that's not what I want. Hey, do this. What's going on? Like
it's much more chaotic than someone who is just
Oh my gosh. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. There's the, you
(02:32):
said it really well. You have a process in your mind and someone who's
highly structured can put that process on paper and then trust that
someone else will follow it versus a micromanager is
like, read my mind. And when you can't read my mind,
I'm going to take over the process. So there's this, both this
like inability to hand off the process and provide expectations and
(02:52):
rules, but then also the fear and worry that it's not being done
Yeah, and I think that my way is maybe the key point where
it's more about how they think it should be done versus like
a codified way of, hey, we do this for a specific reason.
Hmm. Yeah, I know. I
(03:13):
this all sounds so familiar. All the the
memories are rushing back to me. Right. Of I
am not. communicating what I want in a way that you can
do it independently, but it has to be done my way,
even though I haven't done the work to, you know, lay that
process out. And so a couple of ways to identify
(03:35):
micromanagement. I was looking at, you know, what
are some different ways that we can say, okay, this is
micromanagement. This is, you know, lack of a structured environment
or whatever it might be. You can identify micromanagement because
first what we all know excessive oversight constantly
wanting to know what you're doing are you doing it well and you don't actually
(03:57):
know what well is having too many check ins a
low trust environment meaning you always feel like. their
way is better than your way, even though you've been hired as
an expert to do the job you're going to be doing. Invasive communication.
So we're talking emails over the weekend. We're talking, you
(04:17):
know, having to be copied on simple communications,
you know, across departments or across functions, and
just not having decision-making ability, having to move the decisions
over into their desk before it's approved so that you can actually take action on
it. So you're more of a worker bee than someone
who brings the expertise that you were hired for. Is
(04:40):
there anything that you would add to that, like from experience of, you know, what
I'm just thinking back because I've talked to a few people about their
micromanagers recently too and I guess
one thing to add would be someone who's not just
not giving you any decision-making ability, but
(05:02):
they're not even taking your input into consideration
right it goes back to your point about you haven't been hired
for your expertise you're just a doer where maybe they
bring a concern to you and say hey i need you to do
it this way and if you can logically explain this
is why i think we should do it a different way the response is
(05:22):
kind of like an experienced parent who's like, well, because I
said so, right? It's less
about doing things a better way or a logical way
or adapting to the situation. It's I'm the boss, so that's why.
Oh my gosh, that's so true. And I remember always
wanting to understand like, why do you do
(05:44):
that? Like, where does that come from? And one of the things I've noticed
over time, and then also just researching this,
is that a lot of times micromanagers mean well, but
it comes out of a focus on self and out
of a fear of failure. If you don't do well, it
reflects poorly on me. So I have such a
(06:06):
need to look good, to
look accomplished, to not have failure on my plate,
on my record, right? That I have to make sure that you
don't fail. And it's less of a reflection of you as the employee
that they don't trust you, but it's that they're
so fearful of failure that they don't even want to take a chance.
(06:27):
And so the focus isn't on you, believe it or not. As a micromanager, it's
typically like a thing about themselves more so than one individual
Yeah, I totally agree with that, especially like, even
if they do see the reporting chain
the way it is, where as your leader, they're ultimately accountable
for the quality of your work for your success, where
(06:51):
it could be this deep rooted fear that they failed as a leader because
you're not successful. And their way
of solving for that is well do it my way because my way
works for me so it should work for you the end
right like it's more about this is this is the only
way i know how to be successful this works for me i know
(07:12):
it i trust it so you just should blindly follow
this path and you won't fail even if
you do even if it's uncomfortable right like it it's they're
so fearful of failure that they don't see the value in
their staff learning on their own from
(07:34):
It is. And you know, the part that's so, I
don't know if the word's irony, but, you
know, when you're in this place of,
I don't want to fail, so I'm going to make everyone basically be
a robot controlled by me, what happens
is you don't allow people to kind of get into their zone of genius. Number
(07:56):
one, it brings motivation down. Like, I don't know about you,
but I am not motivated when someone says, don't think, Just
move your hand this way, move your hand that way. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm so
demotivated and I also have no room
to learn. So even if I was motivated, I have to do exactly what
you tell me. I don't think, it's just rote action. And
(08:17):
I feel like at that point in the long term, there
is failure because you have a team that hasn't been
developed. This is what's interesting. The dynamic that
takes place is that now the micromanager feels like they can never leave
because they always have to tell you what to do. And so this is
where, you know, we'll get into this later in the episode,
(08:40):
but in my mind, this is where you want to start thinking, okay,
I need to get my stuff together to change to a different department. If
this doesn't work out, like, just think ahead. Not that you have to put
in your two week notice, but that you're like, Hmm. Long term,
this is where micromanagement leads to. It leads to a team that's
demotivated. It leads to a team that hasn't been developed. It
(09:02):
leads to a manager who is stressed because they
can't take a vacation or they don't feel like they can take a vacation. And
ultimately, when you see where this ship is going, right,
this is where you want to start getting prepared in case, you
I totally agree. And from what I'm
(09:23):
hearing right now, just with the people I talk with and
my clients, there are a lot of these micromanagers out
there. So maybe we can like shift gears a little bit and fill
in that gap of, okay, you're there, you've got a micromanager, not
quite at the point where you're ready to leave or you can even
leave. kind of what
(09:45):
are things that people can do right now to
better manage that? Because my starting point has always been, look,
it's completely futile. I
don't know the word. Futile? Futile, yes.
To think that you can change your manager. They
(10:06):
probably don't see the downside of
what they're doing. If they did, they wouldn't be doing it. right
so let's start with don't try to change your manager you're
just going to be frustrating them and you're
going to set that relationship in the wrong path but
what are some of the things that people can do right now to kind
(10:28):
of ease that pain of having someone breathing down
Yeah, so here's the thing I found it so interesting that you
said try not to change like don't try to change someone.
And what I think of is tackling this problem
head on directly is probably not the way to go saying, hey,
(10:51):
you know, maybe you can let me do this, this and
that without you, like that's not going to
work. But what you can do is proactively anticipate
specific situations or specific environmental factors
that can help ease their nervousness
or desire to control, fear, failure. One
(11:14):
of these pieces is, I think it's helpful going
through the, Going through the evaluations,
through your meetings with your boss, having more communication, and so
that your communication is focused more on being
proactive and less on being reactive. If you as a
teammate are reactive and respond when
(11:36):
this micromanager gives you feedback, that's going to perpetuate the
pattern. But if instead you set up expectations and
you say, OK, what is expected of me? What's the outcome? And really kind
of show that you're partnering with them and that you care about the
project as much as they do and that you're taking their input on
what's important to them. That's going to be give
them a little bit more of that ease. And then if you communicate frequently
(12:00):
at steps saying, I know what the outcome is. I know we talked about your
believing that these are the ways to make it happen. Here's some ideas that
I have, but making sure that their input, like they get
a chance to speak at every opportunity so that
they don't feel like they're. like
things are being done in quote unquote, a different way. Ultimately you'll
(12:22):
garner more trust. And that's what really that fear
is going to start to dissipate once you start garnering more trust. So
those are like the first few things that I would say, help you
set an environment where a micromanager, and I
don't want to say this word, but I'm going to say it, but where a micromanager can feel a
little bit more safe to take a risk on
(12:42):
a team member, um, to let them think on their
But I think building that safety is actually really,
really key, because one of the big things I've noticed with
micromanagers is that they don't feel safe
with their team members. Not because of their team members, but because of
(13:02):
however they're reading the situation. I'd
almost push what you're saying to the next level
and suggest, if you're comfortable with it, super
over-communicating with your manager on everything that
you're doing. Not all at once, not for everything, but
for those key things, what's worked really well for me,
(13:25):
what's worked well for people I've coached is taking
one thing to start that they're very concerned with and
just giving them micro-updates throughout the day with
what's going on. It might seem like a lot, but
they will barely notice that you're constantly bombarding them
with updates. If that's how they're asking for updates
(13:47):
or that's how they're dropping into your day, that's probably their expectation,
is this concept of constant communication where,
you know, things I've done is, hey, had a conversation with
so-and-so about this, this was the outcome. I'll see that it's
been read. They may not respond. I'm
not even asking for approval or
(14:09):
confirmation or a decision or anything. Just, hey, this is what's
happened. I'm going about my day now. And then here's another thing
that happened until they actually tell you to stop. And
I've actually seen some micromanagers love that and
not ask for that to stop. Again, it may
seem like a lot of work, but once you get going, it almost feels
(14:31):
like second nature where it's like, all right, I've done my thing. I've updated my
boss. So they've got that feeling of safety that they know what's happening.
right that they're not out of the loop that you're not doing something behind their back
because oftentimes these micromanagers do have trust
issues sometimes stemming from real situations
(14:52):
in their past in their career where they were
out of the loop on something and then they got caught right
or somebody came to them and said why is this going on i
can't believe it and they didn't even know that was going on so they're trying
they're basically over adjusting for something
that's happened to them that's negatively impacted their career
(15:13):
Yeah. And as you're talking, one thing that came to
my mind is, okay, yes, we are working on
creating a quote unquote safe space. Right. Which sounds, could
sound, especially if you've been under the eye of a micromanager
and it's frustrating and you're like, I'm sick of this. Right. It
sounds like, wait, hold on. So the answer is to call it on my manager is what
(15:35):
you're saying. Right. And I just want to be really clear that we're That's
not the goal. The goal is to understand
who your leader is, what's important to them, adjust your
communication style, not for, it's a
win-win situation. It helps them be a better leader.
It helps you have a better, um, experience in
(15:57):
your workplace. It also helps you to advance because when
it comes time for those conversations, when it comes time to
figure out who's going to move up and how they're going to move up, you've now
decided, okay, this is what's important to my leader. And this is how I'm going
to use that. I'm going to figure out what the game is. I'm going to do the
strategy and I'm going to win the game. And so it
might seem as though, wait a second, wait a second, hold on. This
(16:20):
is supposed to be correction for my leader. Right.
But this is part of managing your manager, that it is not
necessarily correction that's going to win the game. You've got to figure out what game you're playing politically
and then use the right strategy. And, you know,
going along with that, one of the pieces that
I think can also be helpful along with that communication is,
(16:42):
you know, that leader is going to want to kind
of have surveillance, right? Like what are you doing? What's going on, right?
And so what you can do is very subtly sort of place
a boundary on the surveillance and instead focus on support. So
providing them proactive ways of here's a couple of ways that
I could really use your support. So you're inviting them into your
(17:03):
work so they feel the involvement, they feel the input, but you are putting
parameters around what that is, or at least suggesting parameters around, you
know, I could really use your help in this and this part. I feel really confident about
what's going on here and I've gotten your input, but if you could help me with this over here,
that'll almost like give them something to do while you
(17:24):
Yeah, I really love that because both with that strategy and
improving your communication so that it matches up
with your manager's expectations, as
long as you're paying attention to how they respond, you'll very quickly be
able to tell what they care about and what they don't. Because
as you were talking, Patricia, about how you can Ask
(17:48):
invite their their input invite their support on
the specific pieces that you want them involved with. If
they say I don't care or however you
like or whatever terminology is giving you
free reign on that particular thing, then you know
(18:08):
they're not going to micromanage you on that piece. You're
almost indirectly asking for permission to do
that on your own. or they're giving you permission because
they've been asked for it. Where if they actually care, like
let's say you've been asked to write an
executive summary on something that the team is working on to
(18:31):
help her with whatever, and your manager has
a specific way of writing things, you could say, hey, I
really need your help with the wording of this piece of
whatever I'm writing. If they say, oh, I
know you're writing. It's fine. Don't worry about it. You don't need to worry
about it. But then if they actually carve out time to sit
(18:53):
down with you and work with you on that, you know instantly they
Kind of aligning your priorities with their priorities.
Exactly. And feeling out, not just setting
your own boundaries, but where are their boundaries? Where do they
feel they need to be involved versus those little pockets
(19:16):
where, okay, they can give up that control. Because
trust me, not every micromanager is going to want to micromanage
every single piece of what you're doing. They simply don't have
time. It feels that way because they're constantly there.
But Again, if you're paying attention
to the language that they're using, what they respond to and what they don't,
(19:39):
you'll be able to start picking up on what are
the pieces that worry them that you need to keep them closer on.
Yeah. I think that makes a big difference. Just, just
paying attention. Like where's that 20 80 divide that's going to
make a really big difference. And you know, as that's happening, it
also made me think, okay, how do we manage
(20:02):
ourselves during that time? And it's
very easy to absorb someone else's anxiety about
a situation. And in the same way that they're projecting their
own fears and worries onto you, you could
easily absorb those. So I encourage you to be really intentional about not
taking in their stress as your stress and not taking in
(20:24):
their self-doubt as your self-doubt because then it becomes a cycle
where it's really destructive because now you have
two people, right? The team member or you and
the micromanager in this case, who both feel a sense of
anxiety, both feel a threat. Ultimately, instinctively
at the core, it's a threat. And so now it's us against them. They're
(20:45):
telling me I'm doing something wrong. Well, they're not doing a good enough job, and now
I'm going to fail. And so it's just a spiral. So maintain
your confidence, maintain your composure, recognize
that as a human, because you're not a robot, you're
gonna want some extra emotional recovery time.
This is going to the gym after work. This is listening
(21:08):
to something positive on your drive. This is having a bi-weekly
meeting with a mentor, talking
to someone at the organization who can help you navigate the situation. You
need those pieces because if you are working under
a micromanager, it is possible that
there is a, um, there's like the, uh,
(21:32):
what is the balance is off. So technically you're
kind of in the hole a little bit. So you have to come up with ways to
Yeah. And I think some of it too is. making
sure that you aren't internalizing their
exact words when they're telling you something's done wrong or
(21:55):
that it's not up to par or whatever where most
of the times I do recommend people pay close attention to
the wording but when it comes to a
micromanager criticizing your work ignore that
because whatever they're saying what they're trying to say is
(22:16):
that's not what i want right
it's not about you did it wrong or you um the
the outcome is wrong it's whatever
you did isn't what how i would have done it
and it's not how i want it done That's
all they're saying. They may be using all sorts of words. If
(22:39):
they have other insecurities, they may
be projecting the failure and the frustration onto you
and directly blaming you for something. But at
the end of the day, they're trying to adjust for not being able
to articulate to you what it is they want and
just kind of losing it. So
(23:01):
whatever that is, yes, absolutely. Like you said, Patricia, we
need that extra recovery time to kind of ease off
of that heightened emotional feedback that's
coming from a micromanager. But before we even absorb
it, it's filtering out, hey, whatever they're saying to me, they're
just trying to say that this is not what I want. So
(23:25):
the question becomes, what is it that they want? How do I deliver that
so that they can kind of back off a little bit next time so
That's so important. Okay, so let's say now, as
we start to wrap up, that you're currently
(23:46):
in this situation, you've got a micromanager and you're like, I want
to get away. So I'm going to be looking for a
different position or going on to a different team. When
you're going through the job search process, Juliana, what
are your ideas on how can we try our best
(24:08):
Oh, that's such a good question because I've found in
my experience, it is so hard, mainly because
micromanagers don't actually know that they're
micromanaging, they don't think that they're as particular
as they are with how things are delivered. all
of the micromanagers I've had, all of the ones that I've kind of deconstructed
(24:32):
with my clients, uh, think that
they're very easygoing, very open, supportive people, which
they may be in other respects, but
because that's the image they have of themselves, that's
what they're portraying to you in an interview. Right. So.
(24:53):
Trying to suss that out in an interview is really tough. I'd say
if you're vying for like an internal move.
just trying to get onto another team or trying to get promoted
onto another team, leveraging your internal network
is really good. So talking to other people on
that team to see, hey, who can trust
(25:15):
me enough to be open and tell me a little bit about what it's
like working for this boss? Even
if they don't want to come out and say that they're micromanager because
they might be a little bit worried that I'll come back to them, You'll
be able to pick up if they start to get uncomfortable talking
about like How flexible are they
(25:37):
or or you know, are they are they
there all the time when I need them? But
I find that asking a question about a process
that needs to be followed is a really good indicator because
if they start using terminology like oh, well, I always
have my people do this and then they're not
(25:58):
necessarily for sure a micromanager but that's probably a
good indicator that they're focused more on themselves than
the process. We're going back to our discussion about is it stickler
for processes is it someone who's just super organized versus
the micromanager. The organized
manager will be like oh well this is the process we just have to
(26:21):
follow it or this is the process and this
is why we do it this way versus oh this is
how I have my team do it. It is very
different in terms of how they approach a question about oh
you know what's the process for submitting, like
for requesting vacation days, or what's the process for this
(26:42):
particular piece of work that we've talked about? You can
kind of get a better sense of them asking a question
like that versus, oh, how do you assign work
to your team? Because micromanagers really
Interesting. You know, part of what came
(27:05):
to my mind in terms of like, okay, when you're in an interview with
a micromanager is very similar to what you mentioned, you know, we
talked about It's kind of like
on your resume. When you're a candidate, everyone's going to
say, I'm a team player. By the way, if that word is on your resume, I
need you to take it out. But when you look at
(27:25):
resumes, so often you see skills that
are soft skills that cannot be proven quantifiably.
And so this is why people say don't put soft skills like
explicitly on your resume if they are not accompanied by
a more tactical skill, by a measure, scope, etc.
It's because you can't prove them. I can say I'm a great team
(27:48):
player, but really I am terrible at being a team player.
And so this is where the vague questions like you mentioned, Juliana,
are not gonna be as helpful. Tell me
about communication between the
team and the leadership. And they're gonna be like, oh, communication's great,
(28:09):
It's so important. I inherently trust all my
teammates, right? Because everyone sees themselves that way. But
if you ask a really specific situation, think of it just
like if they're interviewing you, you're interviewing them as well. So ask a
specific question about one particular point in time. and
how that situation was addressed, especially if there's multiple
(28:30):
people on the interview committee, you really can't lie.
And if you can, you can see it in the other people's faces, right?
So you ask about a specific situation so they can give specific details.
And so a question might be something like, you know, I'd love to know about
a situation, an example. So those are the two words you want to use to make
sure it's a concrete example. example of a time when
(28:52):
there was a, you know, an employee wanted to
experiment and try something new, or there was a conflict
between an employee thought, you know, a teammate thought,
that something should be done versus leadership. How does that navigate it,
right? And then kind of pay attention to how they answer that question. And
feel free to ask follow-up questions, right, with good
(29:15):
intent, in good faith, productively, positively, humbly,
right? But ask specific follow-up questions that help you
understand exactly what happened, the facts. that you
can then interpret instead of asking, well, did
you micromanage? Instead of asking the straight up question,
ask the facts that will help you discern what actually took
(29:38):
Oh, I love that, because I'm just playing through some of those example questions
you had. And I think those are really good ones for even
if you're not trying to figure out if they're a micromanager, just to
understand how that team actually functions
together and how flexible the type of thought
(29:59):
process that your manager is going to have if they're asked,
oh, what if somebody wants to experiment with the process? If
you see people start to sweat, they're going to literally
pull back. And you'll see it if you're in person or
on a visual call or a virtual call, you'll see them pull
away from the computer because they'll be like, oh my god, we
(30:22):
can't experiment with process. That's the process. It has to
be followed versus somebody who might, like I
was thinking, what if I got asked that when I was interviewing someone?
Be like, OK, well, It kind of depends. Are
you experimenting with a proven process on
a high-risk project? Because no. Versus,
(30:45):
hey, is something not working well for us, and you're
going to try it out in an environment where
if we fail, it's OK. That
type of answer is going to be very different than, Oh, well, but
we have processes for a reason, and they have to
be followed for a reason. We're a very structured organization. Those
(31:07):
are huge red flags if you want
Yeah. And asking the question in sections
is also helpful. As you're mentioning that, you know, there's going
to be follow up questions that are needed, but from the beginning you can say, you know, I really
enjoy an organization that has a good level of structure, but that also provides
(31:29):
its employees, its ability to, you know, their ability to use their talents. And
so I'm curious what it looks like and you can say it right.
What it looks like in a relatively low risk situation. Can
you give me an example of? And so you're kind of prefacing it, so
you use less of the time on the back and forth. And then at the end,
you can say, I ask because I'm trying to
(31:49):
figure out, you know, the level of you
know, how much autonomy is encouraged. And
so you always frame it from a good place. If you were to say, I'm trying
to figure out how much decision-making power I have, I wouldn't ask that.
No. But I'm just curious what, you
know, how autonomy is encouraged or
(32:11):
how professional development, how learned by doing is
encouraged, right? So you're kind of saying, I'm
curious how amazing you are, as opposed to, I'm curious if
No, it's a great point. And even, like, let's say you
do all the stuff and you don't get the
job, you may have dodged a bullet. Because I can
(32:34):
see some micromanagers that I've worked with who would hear that and
be like, oh my god, they're asking me about autonomy. I
don't want to hire this person. So they were pretty. How dare they question me. How
dare they question me. How dare they ask if
they're allowed to make decisions. I'm the boss. Yeah.
But the managers you don't want to work with
(32:57):
if, again, you are seeking that autonomy,
you're not just looking for a job where you can kind of clock in, clock out,
those managers will filter you out automatically, right? It's
a two-way street where they're assessing your questions too, but
if you're asking those questions in an intelligent way, they'll
(33:19):
be like, they're really good, but I don't think
they're going to be a good fit for the team versus somebody who wants to
hire a person for their brain, for their ability to
think and react and respond on the job. They'll be like, okay,
this person's got some good questions and they're being very respectful about
it. And eventually they can have the
(33:40):
autonomy they need once they've kind of been onboarded and,
and I can, feel that they know what they're doing,
right, within the confines of our particular circumstance.
Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, we've covered so
much ground here. I'm just looking, right? We've looked at
(34:01):
what does micromanagement look like versus maybe just being
highly structured, right? How can you tell where
is it coming from? Right, we talked about a control field
of failure. It's about them, not necessarily about
you. They'd probably micromanage almost anybody on the team. We
also talked about different ways that you can hopefully reduce that
(34:23):
micromanagement, that sense of micromanaging that,
you know, need and desire for control and that worry and
fear. We talked about taking care of yourself and setting boundaries
and being able to kind of provide positive pockets
of reinforcement for yourself when working with someone so that you don't absorb
their stress. And then we also talked about how can we try
(34:45):
our very best to avoid and to discover when
someone is a micromanager before you get into
the work environment. We've covered quite a lot. Is there
Thanks. So I mean, like you said, we've covered so much. I
think if there was one, one thing I would encourage listeners
(35:08):
to take away from all of this, if you're dealing with
a micromanager right now is remember that
it's about trying to figure out how do you adapt back
to your boss not necessarily doing everything they're asking
for or changing who you are but how
do you meet them somewhere in the middle-ish in
(35:29):
a spot that is comfortable for you but also meets enough
of their needs that they're not like constantly concerned that
you're going rogue which of course you're not but
that's kind of the story they've told themselves about
everyone other than them. So how do you
find that middle ground that's okay for you, that feels
(35:51):
right, but still meets your boss somewhere so
that they're not constantly having to go to you because
And what about you? What's your one
I think for me, most of what is happening is not
(36:14):
actually being said. And so to just pay attention to those
underlying pieces that what's being said is typically
not the full story. In fact, nonverbal communication and perception
is more than 70, 80% of the story. So pay really
close attention to those pieces, both input, like
what you see from them and from the organization, but also what
(36:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've had such a great time, you
know, um, kind of talking about this and, and figuring out
how do we address this situation that can be so
draining for so many professionals. And so if you're here listening,
I hope that this has provided you just a little bit of a light at the end
of the tunnel, um, that you can either begin to
(37:02):
better manage your micromanager or that you can start
looking for something new in hopes that you won't have that situation in the
Yeah. And I guess for next time, if you've got topics
that you want to hear from us about, or you're dealing with a different
type of manager that's a real struggle right now,
just let us know. And we'd love to talk you through what our
(37:27):
All right. So this has been a great episode. Thanks again for joining us.
And Julianne and I will see you on
the next one. Bye. Bye. Hey,
thanks for listening. I really appreciate you spending time with me today. If
you found this episode helpful, please tap the five-star review on
(37:48):
the show's homepage in your podcast app. It would absolutely make
my day, and it helps others discover the Uncommon Career podcast. Now,
to download your free career resources and learn how I help
seasoned professionals land amazing offers in as little as
90 days, click on the link in the description or go to
theuncommoncareer.com. Thanks again, and
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