May 15, 2023 • 18 mins
[Content advisory: This episode includes discussion of sexual assault. Listener discretion advised.]
Crisis management questions will often include multiple answers that are good things to do in the situation described. But there's often a key word in the question that can help you know which of those good options is the right answer.
And speaking of safety, Ben starts asking whether clinical licensing exams actually do the thing they're supposed to do -- assess for safety in independent practice.
This question comes from the current BBS handbook for the California MFT Clinical Exam.
A 36-year-old client initiates therapy and reports that the previous night she went on a date with a man she had met online. After dinner he raped her and then dropped her off at home as if nothing happened. She tells the therapist that she spent the night in the emergency room, and is afraid to go home because her assaulter knows where she lives. Which of the following actions should the therapist initially take in this crisis situation?
- Re-establish the client’s feelings of control to reduce her sense of victimization
- Evaluate the client’s support systems to identify a safe place for the client to stay
- Develop the client’s trauma narrative of the event to desensitize emotional impact
- Encourage the client to file a police report to protect other women from the perpetrator
Intro/outro music: "Swampy Lands" by Adam Saban, licensed via Soundstripe.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Wait, does the public know about this?
No.
A quick content advisorybefore we get started today.
This episode includes discussion of sexualassault, so listener discretion advised.
(00:20):
I'm Ben Caldwell.
With me is Carrie Wiita.
Hello.
And we are going to assessCarrie's knowledge.
And again, just as a reminder,she is coming into this cold.
She has not seen thesepractice items before.
Now, for today's episode.
Carrie, why do we have these exams -- law
(00:40):
and ethics exams, as well as clinicalexams in mental health care?
Oh, my goodness.
It's kind of an existential question.
I feel like, why are we here, truly?
I mean, my understanding of it is thatwe have them because it seems like
somebody should test that we're good atthis before they hand us a license and
(01:04):
say, "You're a therapist now,"but I'm not sure what the real answer is.
Well, before I get to thereal -- and I'll put that in air quotes
-- answer, don't lots of people test uson how good we are before licensure?
Like, you take a ton of tests ingraduate school in various forms.
You have thousands of hours of supervised
(01:27):
experience, and you have clients who areeither getting better -- and through them
getting better, you buildconfidence -- or not.
Don't you already take aton of tests along the way?
I mean, I think so,but usually they don't ask my opinion
about whether I feel likeI've been tested enough.
(01:50):
Well, that's fair.
The answer that comes from exam developers
and from licensing boards is that theseexams exist to protect the public.
And that's what licensingis all about anyway.
It's to protect the publicfrom unsafe practice.
If you look at professional licensing sort
of writ large, it's to protect the publicfrom exploitation by people who are in
(02:14):
these fields that require acertain level of expertise.
Most people in the general publichave no idea how to do that job.
And so, without the benefit of licensure
and the ability to revoke somebody'slicense if necessary, somebody in that
field could really take advantageof unsuspecting consumers.
(02:34):
And could do a lot of harm.
So you have licensure for thatreason, to protect the public.
And licensing boards and exam developers
will say that these exams exist to providekind of an objective standard that helps
protect the public by differentiating whois going to be safe for independent
(02:54):
practice from those who are going tobe unsafe for independent practice.
And you can argue, as I do and will,that doesn't always work very well.
But the fundamental principle, let's make
sure that the public is safe,like, that I can understand.
(03:15):
That's a good lead in to ourpractice question for today.
Are you ready?Oh, gosh.
Yes.Buckle up.
Let's go.
A 36 year old client initiates therapy and
reports that the previous night, she wenton a date with a man she had met online.
After dinner, he raped her and then
dropped her off at homeas if nothing happened.
(03:36):
She tells the therapist that she spent thenight in the emergency room and is afraid
to go home because her assaulterknows where she lives.
Which of the following actions should the
therapist initially takein this crisis situation?
A, reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce her sense ofvictimization. B, evaluate the client's
support systems to identify a safeplace for the client to stay.
(03:59):
C, develop the client's trauma narrative
of the event to desensitizeemotional impact.
Or D, encourage the client to file a
police report to protect otherwomen from the perpetrator.
And for what it's worth, this is a crisis
management question -- it basically saysthat in the question -- from the current
California BBS Exam Handbookfor the MFT Clinical Exam.
(04:22):
So from previous
questions, previous episodes of thispodcast, I have learned that it is
important that it says "crisissituation" in that question.
The end of that question says, "which ofthe following actions should the therapist
initially take in this crisis situation?"They could have said,
(04:45):
"what should the therapist do?" Itcould have been something like that.
It could have said, "how should thistherapist conceptualize the case?" Right?
Right.But it didn't.
It says, "which of the following actions
should the therapist initiallytake in this crisis situation?"
Right.
So they're telling you it's acrisis management question.
It's not a treatment planning question.
(05:07):
It's not a diagnosis kind of question.
You can see in the question there, andyou're seeing that quite rightly, that
this is all about how doyou address the crisis?
Let's take a look at the first one.
Reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce hersense of victimization.
I think that's a really good thing to do.
(05:27):
That's definitely areally good thing to do.
Okay.B, evaluate the client's support systems
to identify a safe placefor the client to stay.
Yeah.
Also really important.
C, develop the client's trauma narrative
of the event to desensitizeemotional impact.
(05:48):
Okay.
My gut says, yeah, that'sprobably a great thing to do.
If this question was more about
how should I deal with this case ingeneral, that might be one of my choices.
But because this is a crisis situation
(06:09):
right now, I'm going to say probably notit, but I'm going to come back to that.
And finally, encourage the client to file
a police report to protect otherwomen from the perpetrator.
Yeah, that's probablyalso a really good thing.
Definitely also a really good thing to do.Definitely.
I've heard news stories about things like
this happening, whereit's coming to light that a certain man
(06:31):
was doing things likethis in a serial manner.
So probably also a good thing to do.
So I'm looking at four things thatare probably a good thing to do.
None of them I'm ready tojust be like, that's stupid.
Wouldn't do that.
That's obviously wrong.
So that makes this more difficult.
So then I go back to the question, andI'm saying, okay, crisis situation.
(06:57):
What are the crises here?
Crisis is obviously probablya very important thing.
What is her state of mind or stateof emotion, her emotional state?
Like, she's probably not doing great.
So that's why I do see the wisdom in,reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce hersense of victimization.
(07:18):
That's answer A.
I understand why that would be a really
good thing to do right away,or at least pretty quickly.
That's pretty soon.
I'm not sure if that'sthe first thing to do.
Why is it important whether ornot it's the first thing to do?
Because this says, "which of the following
(07:39):
actions should the therapist initiallytake in the crisis situation?"
Yeah.Thank you.
That word "initially" can bevery important when you see it.
That's a key word to focusin on when it shows up.
Because if you get a question that asks
what should you do or what should thetherapist do "first?" What should the
therapist do "next?" What should thetherapist do "immediately?" What should
(08:03):
the therapist do "initially?" Thoseare all things that can call on you.
In looking at these responsechoices to prioritize.
You might say, as you have, these all look
like things that I might infact do with this client.
The question is asking, whichof them do you do first?
(08:25):
Right now I'm thinking,what should I do first?
Honestly, if what this client wasreporting to me in therapy
was that she was spiraling andif her major complaint was her emotional
state, then maybe I need to reconsiderand think more about that answer choice.
(08:50):
But what this question says she's telling
me is that she spent the night in theemergency room and is afraid to go home
because her assaulterknows where she lives.
So now that I'm looking closer at that
piece, she's already been to the emergencyroom, so she's been evaluated by a doctor.
(09:12):
So she's obviously stable.
If they're letting hergo home, she's stable.
She's okay.She probably got a rape kit done.
So I actually don't think getting to the
police is necessarily thefirst thing we should do.
So I'm going to strike out D.
That's not what we should do immediately.
We should also not, answer C is develop
(09:35):
the client's trauma narrative of theevent to desensitize emotional impact.
I'm going to say, you know what?
Despite the fact that my trauma knowledge
is not exactly where I wish it was, I'mgoing to say I don't think that that's the
first thing we shoulddo in this situation.
So then I'm looking at,I'm comparing A and B.
And B is evaluate the client support
(09:56):
systems to identify a safeplace for the client to stay.
I am leaning towards B right now because
what the client is telling me is the mosturgent pert of her response is that she's
afraid to go home because herassaulter knows where she lives.
She's not telling me, for example,that she doesn't feel like she can drive
(10:22):
because she's so deep ina flight response.
She's not endorsing that.
Her feeling out of control is the mostdistressing thing to her in the moment.
She's saying she's afraid to go home.
So
(10:44):
I think that that is probably the firstthing you should do in the crisis
situation, is to makesure your client is safe.
So I'm going to go with B, evaluate the
client support systems to identify asafe place for the client to stay.
I like to ask you, how confidentare you, scale of one to ten?
Yeah, this one.
Oh, boy.
(11:04):
I'm going to say an eight and a half.
Okay, well, listen, you keyed in on the
right terms here and the rightway of thinking about it.
So this is asking, which would you do
first, and then, just as you were saying,reestablishing feelings of control.
That's great.
And that might be something you do in theprocess of therapy, but right now she's
scared to go home, and thatis the most urgent need.
(11:29):
Give her a safe place to stay.
And for that reason, B isindeed the correct answer.
And when you see items like thisthat ask, what would you do first?
What would you do next?If you see items that give away, as this
one does, that this is acrisis management question.
You should immediately go to thoughts of
(11:49):
protecting the client's immediate safety,protecting the immediate safety of others
around that client, if the clientis potentially a danger to others.
Here, the client's not a danger to othershere, the client is potentially in danger.
And so you take steps to address that
immediate physical potential dangerto the client before anything else.
(12:12):
That's exactly right.
And I'll tell you, for as much as there isvalid criticism, a lot of it from me, of
these exams, when you look at items likethis that are crisis management questions,
when you look at questions about legal andethical compliance, those are the kinds of
questions that I'm okay with usas clinicians being tested on.
(12:38):
When you look at clinical exams moregenerally, there are all kinds of
questions on clinicalexams that aren't this.
That aren't crisis intervention, that
aren't legal, that aren't ethical innature, that are more about assessment,
diagnosis, treatment planning,particular interventions and the like.
And those can speak to the underlying
(13:02):
knowledge base that an examineehas for the profession.
But I've got to tell you, I don't see, andI have never seen, how if I, as a
therapist, use, let's say, CBT,how does it improve public safety
for me to know middle stageinterventions from Bowen Therapy?
(13:29):
Right?
And the way that the clinical exams are
sort of structured by topic, I could getevery single question about crisis
intervention and ethics incorrectand still pass my test.
If I get enough of the other stuff aboutassessment and diagnosis and treatment
(13:53):
planning, if I get all thoseright, I could still pass my test.
Is that true?Yeah.
That doesn't seem okay.Wait.
It's good to know that I'mnot crazy to say this.
Wait.
How in the world does thatprotect public safety?
Like, a question like this, a questionlike the one that you've addressed.
(14:16):
Well, here I see how that is deeplyrelevant to practice, how
if we don't address that client'simmediate safety need, that we could be
actually doing harm, not justfailing to help, but doing harm.
I 100% get that.
Yeah.
If I don't know the particular verbiage of
(14:39):
a model of treatment that I don't use,I'm not hurting anybody.
Yeah.I mean, agreed.
So what you're saying is that I couldabsolutely strike out on every question
that has to do withsuicide assessment or safety planning or
(15:03):
legally, what I'm required to do, likewhat I need to do in a given situation.
I could get all of those questions wrong,and as long as I know enough about CBT and
bow and therapy and everything else,then I can still get a license, correct?
(15:24):
No, that doesn't seem.
Wait, does the public know about this?No.
And see, passing or failing these tests,
typically, it's not aboutyour subscale scores.
It's just about whether your overallscore hit the cut off for passing.
If you are at or above the cutoff for thatversion of the test, congratulations.
(15:46):
You are now a licensed professional.
If you missed the cutoff, then, I'm sorry,
you don't get to getlicensed at this time.
You have to wait a fewmonths and then try again.
This is making me deeply uncomfortable.
Wait, this is...Wow.
Are you kidding me?
I am not kidding.
(16:07):
This does not seem okay.
Part of what I look at as my role, part ofwhat we are trying to do with this podcast
is help people to get through a deeplyproblematic barrier to licensure.
And so we'll talk more in other episodes
(16:28):
about some of the problemswith these exams.
If you're preparing for your test, to befair, I don't know how deeply you care
about whether an exam isnecessary for public safety.
Like, you've got to take it if you want to
get a license, and that'sjust kind of how it is.
That's the structure.
But once you're through and once you getlicensed, I hope that you will
(16:54):
become active in deeply and meaningfullyquestioning, why do we do it this way?
This is an odd process.
If the intent is to protect public safety,
there is very limited evidence to suggestthat somebody who passes their license
(17:17):
exam is actually then safer inpractice than somebody who doesn't.
That seems like the kind of thing that
exam developers and licensing boardsshould have gathered some evidence in
support of by now, since these exams havebeen in use for more than 50 years, since
the first version or first iterationof what is now the EPPP in psychology.
(17:41):
But these exams have never shown -- never,
ever shown -- any predictive validity forsafety in independent practice, which is
the very thing that boards say thatthey use these exams to assess.
That's a problem, right?
I will have more to say about this in
future episodes, but for right now, if youare interested in learning more about how
(18:05):
to get ready for your exam, go tobencaldwelllabs.com. We have programs for
the California MFT, Counseling, andClinical Social Work Law and Ethics exams.
And we have a program for theCalifornia MFT Clinical Exam.
We may be adding programsin the future as well.
So if your test isn't on thatlist, it's still worth a look.
(18:27):
Go to BenCaldwellLabs.com and seewhat we might have for you there.
I am Ben Caldwell.
On behalf of Carrie Wiita, thankyou once again for joining us.
We'll see you again soon.
Wait, does the public know about this?
No.
A quick content advisorybefore we get started today.
This episode includes discussion of sexualassault, so listener discretion advised.
(00:20):
I'm Ben Caldwell.
With me is Carrie Wiita.
Hello.
And we are going to assessCarrie's knowledge.
And again, just as a reminder,she is coming into this cold.
She has not seen thesepractice items before.
Now, for today's episode.
Carrie, why do we have these exams -- law
(00:40):
and ethics exams, as well as clinicalexams in mental health care?
Oh, my goodness.
It's kind of an existential question.
I feel like, why are we here, truly?
I mean, my understanding of it is thatwe have them because it seems like
somebody should test that we're good atthis before they hand us a license and
(01:04):
say, "You're a therapist now,"but I'm not sure what the real answer is.
Well, before I get to thereal -- and I'll put that in air quotes
-- answer, don't lots of people test uson how good we are before licensure?
Like, you take a ton of tests ingraduate school in various forms.
You have thousands of hours of supervised
(01:27):
experience, and you have clients who areeither getting better -- and through them
getting better, you buildconfidence -- or not.
Don't you already take aton of tests along the way?
I mean, I think so,but usually they don't ask my opinion
about whether I feel likeI've been tested enough.
(01:50):
Well, that's fair.
The answer that comes from exam developers
and from licensing boards is that theseexams exist to protect the public.
And that's what licensingis all about anyway.
It's to protect the publicfrom unsafe practice.
If you look at professional licensing sort
of writ large, it's to protect the publicfrom exploitation by people who are in
(02:14):
these fields that require acertain level of expertise.
Most people in the general publichave no idea how to do that job.
And so, without the benefit of licensure
and the ability to revoke somebody'slicense if necessary, somebody in that
field could really take advantageof unsuspecting consumers.
(02:34):
And could do a lot of harm.
So you have licensure for thatreason, to protect the public.
And licensing boards and exam developers
will say that these exams exist to providekind of an objective standard that helps
protect the public by differentiating whois going to be safe for independent
(02:54):
practice from those who are going tobe unsafe for independent practice.
And you can argue, as I do and will,that doesn't always work very well.
But the fundamental principle, let's make
sure that the public is safe,like, that I can understand.
(03:15):
That's a good lead in to ourpractice question for today.
Are you ready?Oh, gosh.
Yes.Buckle up.
Let's go.
A 36 year old client initiates therapy and
reports that the previous night, she wenton a date with a man she had met online.
After dinner, he raped her and then
dropped her off at homeas if nothing happened.
(03:36):
She tells the therapist that she spent thenight in the emergency room and is afraid
to go home because her assaulterknows where she lives.
Which of the following actions should the
therapist initially takein this crisis situation?
A, reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce her sense ofvictimization. B, evaluate the client's
support systems to identify a safeplace for the client to stay.
(03:59):
C, develop the client's trauma narrative
of the event to desensitizeemotional impact.
Or D, encourage the client to file a
police report to protect otherwomen from the perpetrator.
And for what it's worth, this is a crisis
management question -- it basically saysthat in the question -- from the current
California BBS Exam Handbookfor the MFT Clinical Exam.
(04:22):
So from previous
questions, previous episodes of thispodcast, I have learned that it is
important that it says "crisissituation" in that question.
The end of that question says, "which ofthe following actions should the therapist
initially take in this crisis situation?"They could have said,
(04:45):
"what should the therapist do?" Itcould have been something like that.
It could have said, "how should thistherapist conceptualize the case?" Right?
Right.But it didn't.
It says, "which of the following actions
should the therapist initiallytake in this crisis situation?"
Right.
So they're telling you it's acrisis management question.
It's not a treatment planning question.
(05:07):
It's not a diagnosis kind of question.
You can see in the question there, andyou're seeing that quite rightly, that
this is all about how doyou address the crisis?
Let's take a look at the first one.
Reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce hersense of victimization.
I think that's a really good thing to do.
(05:27):
That's definitely areally good thing to do.
Okay.B, evaluate the client's support systems
to identify a safe placefor the client to stay.
Yeah.
Also really important.
C, develop the client's trauma narrative
of the event to desensitizeemotional impact.
(05:48):
Okay.
My gut says, yeah, that'sprobably a great thing to do.
If this question was more about
how should I deal with this case ingeneral, that might be one of my choices.
But because this is a crisis situation
(06:09):
right now, I'm going to say probably notit, but I'm going to come back to that.
And finally, encourage the client to file
a police report to protect otherwomen from the perpetrator.
Yeah, that's probablyalso a really good thing.
Definitely also a really good thing to do.Definitely.
I've heard news stories about things like
this happening, whereit's coming to light that a certain man
(06:31):
was doing things likethis in a serial manner.
So probably also a good thing to do.
So I'm looking at four things thatare probably a good thing to do.
None of them I'm ready tojust be like, that's stupid.
Wouldn't do that.
That's obviously wrong.
So that makes this more difficult.
So then I go back to the question, andI'm saying, okay, crisis situation.
(06:57):
What are the crises here?
Crisis is obviously probablya very important thing.
What is her state of mind or stateof emotion, her emotional state?
Like, she's probably not doing great.
So that's why I do see the wisdom in,reestablish the client's feelings of
control to reduce hersense of victimization.
(07:18):
That's answer A.
I understand why that would be a really
good thing to do right away,or at least pretty quickly.
That's pretty soon.
I'm not sure if that'sthe first thing to do.
Why is it important whether ornot it's the first thing to do?
Because this says, "which of the following
(07:39):
actions should the therapist initiallytake in the crisis situation?"
Yeah.Thank you.
That word "initially" can bevery important when you see it.
That's a key word to focusin on when it shows up.
Because if you get a question that asks
what should you do or what should thetherapist do "first?" What should the
therapist do "next?" What should thetherapist do "immediately?" What should
(08:03):
the therapist do "initially?" Thoseare all things that can call on you.
In looking at these responsechoices to prioritize.
You might say, as you have, these all look
like things that I might infact do with this client.
The question is asking, whichof them do you do first?
(08:25):
Right now I'm thinking,what should I do first?
Honestly, if what this client wasreporting to me in therapy
was that she was spiraling andif her major complaint was her emotional
state, then maybe I need to reconsiderand think more about that answer choice.
(08:50):
But what this question says she's telling
me is that she spent the night in theemergency room and is afraid to go home
because her assaulterknows where she lives.
So now that I'm looking closer at that
piece, she's already been to the emergencyroom, so she's been evaluated by a doctor.
(09:12):
So she's obviously stable.
If they're letting hergo home, she's stable.
She's okay.She probably got a rape kit done.
So I actually don't think getting to the
police is necessarily thefirst thing we should do.
So I'm going to strike out D.
That's not what we should do immediately.
We should also not, answer C is develop
(09:35):
the client's trauma narrative of theevent to desensitize emotional impact.
I'm going to say, you know what?
Despite the fact that my trauma knowledge
is not exactly where I wish it was, I'mgoing to say I don't think that that's the
first thing we shoulddo in this situation.
So then I'm looking at,I'm comparing A and B.
And B is evaluate the client support
(09:56):
systems to identify a safeplace for the client to stay.
I am leaning towards B right now because
what the client is telling me is the mosturgent pert of her response is that she's
afraid to go home because herassaulter knows where she lives.
She's not telling me, for example,that she doesn't feel like she can drive
(10:22):
because she's so deep ina flight response.
She's not endorsing that.
Her feeling out of control is the mostdistressing thing to her in the moment.
She's saying she's afraid to go home.
So
(10:44):
I think that that is probably the firstthing you should do in the crisis
situation, is to makesure your client is safe.
So I'm going to go with B, evaluate the
client support systems to identify asafe place for the client to stay.
I like to ask you, how confidentare you, scale of one to ten?
Yeah, this one.
Oh, boy.
(11:04):
I'm going to say an eight and a half.
Okay, well, listen, you keyed in on the
right terms here and the rightway of thinking about it.
So this is asking, which would you do
first, and then, just as you were saying,reestablishing feelings of control.
That's great.
And that might be something you do in theprocess of therapy, but right now she's
scared to go home, and thatis the most urgent need.
(11:29):
Give her a safe place to stay.
And for that reason, B isindeed the correct answer.
And when you see items like thisthat ask, what would you do first?
What would you do next?If you see items that give away, as this
one does, that this is acrisis management question.
You should immediately go to thoughts of
(11:49):
protecting the client's immediate safety,protecting the immediate safety of others
around that client, if the clientis potentially a danger to others.
Here, the client's not a danger to othershere, the client is potentially in danger.
And so you take steps to address that
immediate physical potential dangerto the client before anything else.
(12:12):
That's exactly right.
And I'll tell you, for as much as there isvalid criticism, a lot of it from me, of
these exams, when you look at items likethis that are crisis management questions,
when you look at questions about legal andethical compliance, those are the kinds of
questions that I'm okay with usas clinicians being tested on.
(12:38):
When you look at clinical exams moregenerally, there are all kinds of
questions on clinicalexams that aren't this.
That aren't crisis intervention, that
aren't legal, that aren't ethical innature, that are more about assessment,
diagnosis, treatment planning,particular interventions and the like.
And those can speak to the underlying
(13:02):
knowledge base that an examineehas for the profession.
But I've got to tell you, I don't see, andI have never seen, how if I, as a
therapist, use, let's say, CBT,how does it improve public safety
for me to know middle stageinterventions from Bowen Therapy?
(13:29):
Right?
And the way that the clinical exams are
sort of structured by topic, I could getevery single question about crisis
intervention and ethics incorrectand still pass my test.
If I get enough of the other stuff aboutassessment and diagnosis and treatment
(13:53):
planning, if I get all thoseright, I could still pass my test.
Is that true?Yeah.
That doesn't seem okay.Wait.
It's good to know that I'mnot crazy to say this.
Wait.
How in the world does thatprotect public safety?
Like, a question like this, a questionlike the one that you've addressed.
(14:16):
Well, here I see how that is deeplyrelevant to practice, how
if we don't address that client'simmediate safety need, that we could be
actually doing harm, not justfailing to help, but doing harm.
I 100% get that.
Yeah.
If I don't know the particular verbiage of
(14:39):
a model of treatment that I don't use,I'm not hurting anybody.
Yeah.I mean, agreed.
So what you're saying is that I couldabsolutely strike out on every question
that has to do withsuicide assessment or safety planning or
(15:03):
legally, what I'm required to do, likewhat I need to do in a given situation.
I could get all of those questions wrong,and as long as I know enough about CBT and
bow and therapy and everything else,then I can still get a license, correct?
(15:24):
No, that doesn't seem.
Wait, does the public know about this?No.
And see, passing or failing these tests,
typically, it's not aboutyour subscale scores.
It's just about whether your overallscore hit the cut off for passing.
If you are at or above the cutoff for thatversion of the test, congratulations.
(15:46):
You are now a licensed professional.
If you missed the cutoff, then, I'm sorry,
you don't get to getlicensed at this time.
You have to wait a fewmonths and then try again.
This is making me deeply uncomfortable.
Wait, this is...Wow.
Are you kidding me?
I am not kidding.
(16:07):
This does not seem okay.
Part of what I look at as my role, part ofwhat we are trying to do with this podcast
is help people to get through a deeplyproblematic barrier to licensure.
And so we'll talk more in other episodes
(16:28):
about some of the problemswith these exams.
If you're preparing for your test, to befair, I don't know how deeply you care
about whether an exam isnecessary for public safety.
Like, you've got to take it if you want to
get a license, and that'sjust kind of how it is.
That's the structure.
But once you're through and once you getlicensed, I hope that you will
(16:54):
become active in deeply and meaningfullyquestioning, why do we do it this way?
This is an odd process.
If the intent is to protect public safety,
there is very limited evidence to suggestthat somebody who passes their license
(17:17):
exam is actually then safer inpractice than somebody who doesn't.
That seems like the kind of thing that
exam developers and licensing boardsshould have gathered some evidence in
support of by now, since these exams havebeen in use for more than 50 years, since
the first version or first iterationof what is now the EPPP in psychology.
(17:41):
But these exams have never shown -- never,
ever shown -- any predictive validity forsafety in independent practice, which is
the very thing that boards say thatthey use these exams to assess.
That's a problem, right?
I will have more to say about this in
future episodes, but for right now, if youare interested in learning more about how
(18:05):
to get ready for your exam, go tobencaldwelllabs.com. We have programs for
the California MFT, Counseling, andClinical Social Work Law and Ethics exams.
And we have a program for theCalifornia MFT Clinical Exam.
We may be adding programsin the future as well.
So if your test isn't on thatlist, it's still worth a look.
(18:27):
Go to BenCaldwellLabs.com and seewhat we might have for you there.
I am Ben Caldwell.
On behalf of Carrie Wiita, thankyou once again for joining us.
We'll see you again soon.
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