One day, I shall come back...

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Three, two. Thunder Nerds are go. Thunder Nerds,
welcome back. Man, it's been along time. It's been way too

(00:47):
long.
Good to be back. I alwaysthought I'd bring this podcast
back. I was fairly sure that I'ddo that. And here we are.
Episode, I think, must besomething around 46 or rather.
Now Welcome back, one and all.That's the first thing to tick

(01:13):
off the agenda. Where did we go?Well because we got we kinda
just dipped off there, didn'twe? Look.
We had an extremely busy period.Josh and I kind of, I suppose,
thrust upon us. We dabble inacting, filmmaking as well, and

(01:37):
things picked up a little bitfor us both. And we had to kinda
put the podcast aside, which wasa shame at the time because we
were just leading up to, ShootyGatwick's first season of Doctor
Who. So I'm yet to give mythoughts on that, all that to
come.

(01:58):
But, yeah, we were I think atthe time, dabbling between a
doctor who revivalretrospective, which we had, I
think, just covered offBoomTown, which is episode 10 of
Eccleston's first season. NowI'm going to keep all the pods

(02:21):
prior to this up, at least forthe time being so that there is
a historical record for you. Ifyou do wanna go back and listen
to that doctor who retrospectivebecause I'm looking to continue
that on. Also, Star Trek wasanother one that Josh and I were
covering off. I might pick theStar Trek TNG up and continue

(02:46):
with it.
I was enjoying it. Josh will notbe joining us on the podcast,
unfortunately. We might get himin every now and then, though,
if he's free. See if we can gethim in maybe for some especially
if we go back to Star Trek.Maybe we'll try and dial him in
to get some get some thoughts onwhat he thinks about some of
those TNG episodes because hewas much more versed with that

(03:09):
than I was.
But he's busy, so it's gonna bedifficult, I suppose, to get him
on frequently, but I might callhim in every now and then to
talk Star Trek or just shoot theshit. But it's gonna be me,
predominantly, Thunder Nerd onemoving forward. We'll do doctor

(03:30):
who, of course. That's amainstay. I love doctor who.
James Bond. I'm a massive Bondfan. Might cover some of that
off. Thunderbirds. Maybe we needto get Josh on here and do the
oh, wow.
I'm just thinking about it now.Maybe we have to do the
Thunderbird live action filmbecause Jonathan Frakes directed

(03:53):
that notorious film. Isnotorious the wrong word?
Infamous, maybe. And it is that.
So maybe we need to get him onand and do a do a watch along to
that because that is a bundle oflaughs, that film. Anyway, so
we'll do some films as well.Like, I I I'm gonna see sinners

(04:14):
soon, hopefully. I'm hearingsome really good stuff about
that. I'll throw that up whenI've seen it, my thoughts on it.
So films, we'll do some TVshows, like I said. So doctor
who's the mainstay, butSeverance, I wanna get around to
watching that. Breaking Bad's aclassic. Maybe we bring on

(04:35):
someone and talk about BreakingBad. Shows like that.
Endor. I'm hearing a lot of goodstuff about Endor. I think I
need to watch that. We'll getsomeone on to talk about that as
well. We'll bring some guests inevery now and then.
Today on the show, we have got,Lady Penelope coming on. That's

(04:58):
my sister. Code name, LadyPenelope, though, for the
purpose of the podcast. She isgonna be talking doctor who
well, I guess season one,Russell T. Davies, second era
overall.
What are her thoughts on it?What does she think? Let's talk
about that. And then we're gonnaget on another good friend of

(05:20):
mine, a gaming friend of old,the ice warrior. We'll bring him
on.
We'll talk about his thoughts.What does he think about doctor
who and the state it's in at themoment? Does he like it? Does he
not like it? What does he thinkof RTD two?
Where does he think the show isgoing in the future? Let's talk
about that. We'll also talk tohim about the g t a six trailer
that dropped. It must be acouple of days ago now. I'm

(05:44):
recording this on a Saturday forthose of you that are listening,
and we're gonna talk about thatGTA six trailer.
I know that there's gonna bethousands, if not hundreds of
thousands, honestly, breakdownsof that trailer across the
place. There's a lot ofanticipation about that game,
but let's get him on. Let's talkabout that as well. And then to

(06:06):
finish off now this is allhappening. Like, I've already
recorded the segment with, LadyPenelope, Wibli Bopi, Tommy
Waimi happening here, so that'llall get fifth episode of this

(06:30):
new season of doctor who thatwe're seeing at the moment,
Storing the Engine, one of theones that I have had a lot of
anticipation for myself.
A new writer on the show. That'sexciting. That's dropping soon,
so I might go watch thatcomeback. And if I can dial the
d man in, we'll get histhoughts. What did he think of

(06:53):
the story in the engine?
So that's kind of where we're atat the moment. Without further
ado, let's get into this.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
This is lady Penelope Crichton Ward speaking.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Penelope. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Quite the intern. That was wonderful. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Did you

Speaker 3 (07:21):
like that?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Quite lovely.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
So from now on, you'll be known as Lady Penelope
on this podcast. And that's your

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Special intro whenever you join in. So,
Penelope, let's talk doctor who.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Let's.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Do we wanna dive into just an overview maybe of season
one? Well, actually, hold up.Hold up. Let's go back a little
bit. Let's rewind.
I when it was announced that RTDwas coming back to doctor who, I

(08:01):
said to you, the savior hasreturned, and this will be the
biggest show in the world.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes. I distinctly remember you saying that.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
And I was pretty adamant about that. Would you
agree? Like

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Oh, very. You were very confident. You said mark my
words. Yes.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
How do you think that's transpired?

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Listen. I think that's aged like milk in the
sun.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Wow. Wow. So okay. So what okay. So hold on.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
To put it lightly.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
So, like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Are we are you when did it when do you think that
you knew it wasn't? How early?And what and what about it that
is not didn't work for you?Like, when you watched the
sixtieth anniversary specials,were you not vibing with them?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Look. Yeah. Not really. Didn't really pique my
interest. Felt like beating adead horse a little bit, getting
Tenant back.
Mhmm. And sort of just a littlebit of a desperate clutch at
straws. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
They're trying

Speaker 4 (09:25):
Bringing

Speaker 2 (09:26):
back old favorites, just to bring back old fans. It
was just a bit

Speaker 1 (09:30):
So it didn't work for you. Would you would you have
would you have rather see just anew doctor straight into the mix
in the sixtieth specials?

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I guess so. I just don't think the overall material
is just good anymore, but that'sjust my my opinion.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So with, yeah, that that is
interesting. I'm just I'm justtrying to so because because you
kind of tuned out so I I wouldsay that you tuned out of the
show after Smith left.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
This is a complex question because I was not
really in it that much forSmith.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I was I would say the first maybe after Amy and Rory
left because I wasn't evenreally in it that much. I did I
remember watching Clara'sseason. But, yeah, I guess yeah.
No. You're probably right,actually.
Once the twelfth doctor came on,I was out ski.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Because I reckon we I remember watching that last
Smith story with you on itsfirst broadcast. Gee. We must
have been at The Peninsula then,but that that I remember we
watched it there, and then Ithink from memory because you'd
watched before that was thefiftieth anniversary special.

(10:55):
Right? His fiftieth special goesstraight into his final story.
And then I think you watched alittle bit of Capaldi, but I
kinda think you were prettyfastly out of there. I reckon
that after that first or secondstory, you kinda went, this is
it for me.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah. I I pretty much knew. I said, look at this bird
looking motherfucker. Gotta go.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I think that, like, it's an interesting one with
Capaldi because he didn't mellowstraight away like other
doctors. He was an older kind ofstick insect looking doctor. I
think he looks exactly as Iimagined the doctor would look
personally.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
But Though that's yeah. It was not his looks that
put me off.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
No. No.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
It was

Speaker 2 (11:41):
his his personality.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Personality. And I think he mellowed over his three
seasons, but I I kinda think itechoes what you said.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I know, but that I'm not gonna sit there and watch
all these episodes where he'sjust completely not what he has
been for the past threegenerations. Do you know what I
mean?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
It's interesting. See, I kinda thought I kinda
thought that it was aninteresting choice to be like,
let's give you somethingdifferent. Because I usually I
mean, there's they they they thegeneral rule that the
showrunners seem to go with is,like, whatever the previous guy
was, let's do the antithesis ofthat next. I don't really think

(12:20):
that happened with Tennant andSmith. I kinda went from a young
doc No.
I I guess it did in the sense oflike a very human doctor became
a very alien doctor, but the agedidn't really change. And then
the next one, you go from theyoungest to the oldest younger.
Likable to really not likableinstantly. Yeah. I guess they
ran a bit of a risk there,didn't they?

(12:41):
Like, and it was a bit of aColin Baker move to be like,
let's go from a really not tothat extreme where that he's
strangly his companion in hisfirst story. Shout out, Colton.
But he was a very brutal doctorto start with. So you you you
didn't I don't think he reallycame back for Jody at all

(13:02):
either.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
No. I don't think I've seen one episode of Jody.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Wow. Not one of Jody. And then

Speaker 2 (13:08):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah. Right. So they bring back they bring back
Tenet. They bring back KatherineTate. It's labeled as a sixtieth
anniversary kind of celebration.
It doesn't really have much todo with anything prior, I would

(13:30):
say, in the sixty years ofDoctor Who. Like, it kinda feels
like season four point two,really.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah. I would agree. Because I feel like all the
other anniversary ones alwayshave, like, some sort of
callback to some, like,significant thing in the show.
And then that one was just sortof, like, David Tennant comes
back. Yeah.
It's really like

Speaker 1 (13:52):
it is a like, when you look at it structurally, it
is a really like, I really loveWild Blue Yonder, but it is a
weird three stories. Like, ifyou look at the three doctors,
the first three doctors cometogether to fight Omega. You
look at the five doctors, thefirst five doctors come
together. Like, and there's astory, his companions Tom Baker

(14:15):
didn't come back. Shout out toTom Baker, wax mannequin,
whatever it was in the in thephotoshoot.
And then, I guess, the day ofthe doctor, you get Smith Tenet.
You get John Hurt as a as thewar doctor, but it definitely
has callbacks to other eras ofthe show. And the biggest
running story of the time, whichwas the Time War, and that comes

(14:36):
to a head in that story.Spoilers. I think that Yeah.
Yeah. It's a it is

Speaker 2 (14:44):
a weird random, and I don't find them very memorable.
Like, I can barely rememberthem. You know, all I remember
about those episodes Mhmm. Isthem getting, like, really big
hands and stuff, big arms.Right.
Yep. Yep. And that's quiteliterally all I remember.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Oh, you remember from those stories. So the first
story, we get beat the meat,which is a hilarious, like I
mean, the beat was from a Beatthe Meat was from a fourth
Doctor Marvel comic. Never seenone of the shows.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
With Ruby Sunday? The first one with Ruby Sunday?

Speaker 1 (15:15):
No. That that this is the one with the Wraith warriors
and the Miriam playing thelittle white fluffy Beep The Me.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
And so remember the white fluffy thing. Yep.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
So so that's a fourth Doctor comic villain that he
that he then goes, let's bringthat story, the star beast, into

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah. I've got a gem. I'm going on bail.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
So he brings in he brings in the star beast. He
writes an original story for thesecond story, which really is
just a two hander betweenTennant and Tate playing two
different versions of thecharacters, like the the not
things and then themselves. Andthen the third special, he
brings in what's his name? NeilPatrick Harris is the toymaker.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Oh, yes. Of course. How could I forget?

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Of course. And the toymaker is a first doctor
villain, so there's a callback.But it it but it seems like
fairly, like, bizarre littlecallbacks to the past, like a
comic story, a first doctorvillain that I wouldn't even say
the toymaker for all the timesthat, you know, he almost came
back in an unmade season twentythree with Colin Baker, that
didn't happen, but that was aplan with the original actor.

(16:25):
They bring the character backnow. Fans have talked about that
character a lot.
Now the character the actualstory, the celestial toymaker,
is actually look. I've seen thereconstructions. I haven't seen
the full thing. I've seen theanimation. Personally, it's not
that good of a story.
I think people just liked theidea of the toymaker. They bring
him back, but he doesn't do ahell of a lot in that story.

(16:50):
Does he?

Speaker 2 (16:50):
No. Oh my gosh. Sorry. You've just you just

Speaker 1 (16:54):
made me think about, like,

Speaker 2 (16:55):
the body laugh and, like, no. You just made me,
like, think about thisoverarching, like, the story arc
that's sort of building rightnow with, like, the laughs.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Pantheon or something and all that.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Whatever whatever it may be. And it just
I couldn't be less interested init. Like, I couldn't care less.
Like, you know how they used tobuild a story arc, and you'd
like, oh, what's gonna happen?Yeah. This one, every time I
hear that goddamn laugh, I wantto jump off a cliff.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
So it doesn't do it for you. It's just not doing it
for you.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
It's not doing it for

Speaker 2 (17:21):
I'm not intrigued. I want to shut up.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Do you think that doctor who I mean, I don't wanna
go on too much of a tangenthere, but I'm just I'm just
thinking while you're sayingthat, like, usually doctor who
this is I'm talking, like,historically now. Like, back in
classic who, it happened in newwho, and I'll give some examples

(17:45):
because you've seen new who,like, at on at face value,
there's ghosts stalking thestreets of Cardiff in the
unquiet dead turns out to be analien race called the Gelf.
Right? Mhmm. Mhmm.
At face value, the doctors allof a sudden fighting witches
against Shakespeare. Turns outthey're called Carrionites, and

(18:06):
they're, you know

Speaker 4 (18:07):
But you know what?

Speaker 1 (18:09):
There's science.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Like that.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah. And and what I what I'm kinda getting at is
this internal doctor who logicand science behind the myths or
whatnot, but with the pantheon.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
I always loved that they did that.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
And then you get to this Wild Blue Yonder, and the
doctor kind of is fighting thenot things, and he he he seems
to think well, he he tells him,you know, you can't cross salt.
He makes this thing up, and thenhe says towards the end of the
story, I feel like I've invokeda superstition at the edge of

(18:45):
the universe, and maybe thatwasn't a good idea, and that is
the explanation they're runningwith for how the toymaker came
back, and now how the whatthey're calling the pantheon has
come through. So you're Lux,you're the maestro from the
devil's court, these god likefigures. No. No.
I don't It almost feels like,you know, they're using he's

(19:09):
gone, I wanna bring some more,like, I don't know, mythical or
godlike beings in, but I don'twanna have to explain the
sciences they're using. So I'mjust going to say that they're
part of a pantheon of gods. Andit's like what do you think
about that?

Speaker 2 (19:23):
It just feels like cheap and just, like, the easy
way out.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Because then you're not explaining it.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Me. Like, bringing gods, when I think of like,
they've had, like, these, youknow, villains before, and
they've been different races.But then bringing gods, it just
feels like he was like, what'sthe most crazy thing I could do?
What's the craziest thing hecould be up against? Gods.
And then brings in these gods,but they're not even fleshed
out. They're just really easycheap shots. I don't know.

(19:51):
That's how it feels.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Right. Okay. So okay. So he brings in goblins. They
are very quickly into the era ofseason one, I'm talking now,
when we meet Ruby and whatnot.
There's musical number in thefirst story, Church on Ruby
Road, then we kinda go into TheDevil's Court where the Beatles

(20:13):
are there, but they're notthey're kinda background.
They're not really in the storya hell of a lot, I would say.
And there's a musical number atthe end. Like, do you think what
what's your feeling of the toneof the Gatwick era thus far?

Speaker 2 (20:27):
What I'm gonna say is this. Disney said, we own this
now, and we're going to makesome changes around here. And
they just

Speaker 1 (20:34):
That's interesting. See, I I think that it's
Russell, personally.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
He probably always wanted to do shit like that, and
they were probably like, oh,that's just not really the what
the show is. It's giving Disneyowns it now to me. Like, sorry.
They randomly started doingmusical numbers.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Never do that before. Well,

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I don't know. It's it's an interesting one. Like, I
I kinda feel like he's come backand gone, I'm just gonna do
because I I was thinking aboutthis racing. I'm like, no one
went so the Chris Chipnale era,whatever you think of it, like,
I'm talking to you now, ThunderNerds. Whatever you think of the
Chris Chipnale era, I thinkthere's things that you can take
away from it that are good, butthere's also a lot that, you

(21:16):
know, I didn't like and I knowother people didn't like.
But what what I'm trying to getat is that it almost feels like
when they announced RTD comingback, it was like, oh my god.
He's back. Like, he'll save theshow, and no one said no. It it
almost feels like, you know,he'd done it before, and no one

(21:40):
maybe did did I know thatthey're script editors, but
maybe did they not I don't know.Like, rein in I'm not sure.
I'm not I'm not sure really whatI'm getting at. I'm I'm I'm kind
of

Speaker 2 (21:54):
You could be right. They might have been like, he
has full creative control.You've done it before. Let's put
it in his hands. And then

Speaker 1 (21:59):
what he says He thinks that's right. Let's do
that. And then and then I knowseason one and two were filmed
back to back. Like, they theywere filming season two when the
Star Beast aired. That's how farahead they So it's not like when
they finished season one, theythen had the people watching the

(22:20):
show, the the fans come in andthen went, okay.
Let's course correct. Let's makesome changes. They had shot the
seasons back to back, so nofeedback was taken on board. I'm
I'm just throwing that out thereas an interesting thing that
like, so you could look at ittwo ways. You could look at it
and go, well, okay.
Well, no no feedback's beenbrought on board. This is, like,

(22:43):
whatever you thought of theseason one. If it doesn't
correct in season two, it wasbecause they shot it so close
together. You could look at itanother way and say, are the
seasons so inextricably linkedwith the themes they're going
for, like the whole, like, maybethis is all happening in a show
theory that it's almost youcan't judge the entire thing

(23:04):
until we've seen the end ofseason two to see if the landing
sticks. Because season one'sending felt very the whole Ruby
Mum thing, there was just a lotof things that that felt very
underwhelming in a in a kind ofoff way to me that it like, when
I think back on it, I go, haveis there knowing that they had
these two seasons only greenlit,Like, where is the final going

(23:29):
here?
Like and so I am interested tosee that.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I would love that. If it if it does get wrapped up
nicely and it has an endingwhere everything ties together
and makes more sense, then thatwould be ideal. I don't know if
that's actually what's gonnahappen, but

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah. I'm not sure either. I just I just get a
weird feeling about that, and II think some of the other people
that I've been reading commentson are also getting that feeling
that, like, there's more to thatfan scene from episode two than
just being in episode two.People seem to think that those

(24:05):
like, the post credits scene ofthem going, oh, you know, we're
still alive, we're still here,is gonna come back in the final
and the fans are gonna actuallyplay a part in the final and
that the audience thing is goingto be a much bigger part than
just a little episode two cameo.That was just the setup for it.
And I don't mind that ideabecause I do feel like this era
has felt more like a show, ifthat makes It's felt more like,

(24:33):
you know, characters winking andsaying things directly to the
camera and like, they've donethat before in Doctor Who. It's
actually not a new thing, likethe Doctor speaking to the
camera and saying things. TomBaker used to do it. Capaldi did
it. Like, multiple Doctors havehad their little wink wink,
nudge nudge moments to theaudience.
But to address it in the showand perhaps bring it into the

(24:56):
finale, I mean, it could havebad ramifications possibly
depending on if they go down andif it's handled. Maybe it could
have maybe it could turn outreally good. I'm not sure. The
track record, would say,personally, this is just me
speaking from my own experiencesand, you know, how many times

(25:17):
I've watched the show, I kindafeel like the the the best
landing Russell T. Davies everstuck for a finale was the
Eccleston finale.
Like, since then, I'd I wouldn'tsay the the finales have landed
as well. Yeah. Do you know whatI'm saying?

Speaker 2 (25:36):
No. Agree. I would agree.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
What did you think? So we get to the end of season
one. Belinda comes on board. Howdo you think that's changed the
dynamic with this doctor? Like,do you are you liking that
dynamic better than the RubySunday fifteenth doctor?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I feel like both of them didn't really give much at
all. I found Ruby more annoying.I find this one Belinda, I think
is her name is. I find her waymore tolerable.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
And I like that her thing is, like, she wants to go
back. That's kind of a nicefresh take because that she
doesn't really wanna be there. Idon't know how she's, like I
mean, obviously, they can'treally get back to the current
day, so I guess that's why shecan't. But if that was me, I
wouldn't really be going onadventures in between. Yep.
But but, yeah, I like her a

Speaker 4 (26:25):
lot more.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
You like her a lot more. Okay. Yeah. I think she's
I don't know what it is. It justseems to be something for me
when I watch her and I go, Idon't know why it wasn't there
for me with Ruby, but she justseems like a companion to me,
like a normal

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
It's hard. I I I don't really even know how to
define that. I just it's justwatching it. I'm not immediately
thinking it's an actressplaying.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Feel yeah. Yeah. It felt very much like I was
watching two actors on screen.Mhmm. Sorry for you all, but you
know what I mean?
You're meant to be sort of lostin it, so you don't really think
like that. But with themtogether, I always felt like I
was watching two actors playroles. Yep. This one's a lot
more genuine.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yep. Yeah. That's good. I think that's been a
noticeable change between it. Iit does make me wonder where
would the show be, and I'm I'mnot like, it makes me wonder if
they'd opened with this season.
Because I would say so far,personally, that I I didn't love

(27:28):
the Robot Revolution. I don'tthink you watched that. Not sure
if I think that was, like,better than Space Babies or not,
but I think for for my personaltaste, I thought Lux, which very
much felt like the devil's cord,like, in you know, it's going
back to the past that it'sanother pantheon god or

(27:48):
whatever. Like, I I felt likeLux was way better to me than
the Devil's Chord was with theMaestro and the Beatles. And
Yeah.
I think episode three, The Wellwas better than Boom, and maybe
73 yards, I think, is I thinkthat's definitely better than
the last one. Should I haveforgotten the title of the last

(28:12):
one? Oh my god. Can't rememberwhat it was. Anyway, I've just
I've just completely blanked onepisode oh, Lucky Day.
But Nice. I kinda think if theyopened with this season with
this dynamic, I wonder if itwould have because the general
consensus that I've seen, eventhough I didn't like the robot

(28:32):
revolution, is that a lot ofpeople have been week after week
going, this is so much betterthan last year. And I wonder,
like, if they'd opened withthis, would there be more talk
about it? I I almost think youcould argue that it's too little
too late where people droppedoff, and now that they're
hitting their stride a littlebit with some of the stuff
they're doing, like, they'veactually lost the viewership

(28:53):
already, possibly. That's whatit feels

Speaker 5 (28:56):
like today.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
That, but you're probably right.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
What did you think about The Well? Like

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah. It was definitely the strongest one
they've had, I would say, at allin this

Speaker 1 (29:08):
In this?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
The new new Doctor Who. Interesting. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah. Did you kind of pick up what it was doing with
with being a Midnight sequel?Or, like, what were you

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Well, yeah. As soon as it didn't click straight
away, but as soon as theyobviously mentioned that it used
to be a planet made of diamonds

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I sighed to myself, and I said, oh my gosh. It's
midnight. That's true. Knowthat.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
I think

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I sowed away, I was like, I hate myself.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah. I think that, like, with the well I don't know
what your thoughts thoughts areon this, but I I I kinda feel
like it's the most doctor ishthat Shooty Gatt was ever felt
to me in the role. Like, I don'tknow if it's the script. Well,

(30:09):
well, it definitely is thescript, but there's something
about the way he the moment heenters you know, they arrive on
the planet. Go inside, and thenthey're they're doing the, like,
oh, there's something, like, allthese people are dead.
I think they do a really thefirst thing I I think is worth
noting is, like, I think theyrun a really good balance in the

(30:32):
episode where, you know, youknow you've got kind of five to
six year olds watching. There'snot yeah. I guess you can't push
things too far, but I thoughtthey dabbled nicely on the edge
with, like, showing a few bodiesand not showing

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
What did you say?

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Sorry. No. You're so right. Sorry. I just that that
sentence was wild.
That was wild. Doubled nicelywith showing a few bodies.
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Well, I'm saying that, like, you know, you can't
be having, you know, bloodied,bad bodies in a in a kid's show,
essentially. Like so they theykind of insinuate, oh, every
everything in them is broken.Like, half of them have laser
fire. Laser fire, obviously, youcan't see laser fire, I I
suppose, so that no blood there,like and then they they do a bit

(31:28):
of paranormal, like, peoplearound. I feel like they do as
much as they probably could, andI I could see myself watching it
as a kid and being shit scared.
Like, obviously, the age I amnow doesn't do that, but, like,
I could see if I was a kidwatching that, and I'd never
seen anything like that, thatI'd be absolutely batshit scared
about what I was watching. So Ithink they do that nicely. Yeah.

(31:50):
But I think the way that hewalks into the room and
completely asserts control withher and goes, you know, he's got
the soldiers around. He's incommand of them.
He he knows sign language. Iliked that choice. I liked the
subtitling.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Very, like, genuine to the character.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah. Well, the twelfth doctor kind of

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well, he's meant to know every language. Right? So,
like, he he would know signlanguage, so that made sense.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's funny. Like, the twelfth doctor kinda walked into
a room at one point with someonewho was deaf and he he tried
sign language and was terribleat it. So I I do wonder, like,
did he learn it after that, ordid does did different
incarnations just recalldifferent things? I wonder.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I I think that doesn't make any sense, so I
think he would have to havelearned it.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Probably learned it after. I mean, you you would
think, you know, obviously,there's a gag in there and under
the lake, but, like, you dothink surely the doctor, knowing
knowing how much he says hespeaks 5,000,000,000 languages,
what, he hasn't learned signlanguage?

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah. I I don't even I don't buy that.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
So that's an interesting little tidbit. But,
like, he walks in, he knowswhat's going on. I think the
actress is really strong. Ithink her name is Rose. I don't
know her last name.
A list or something like that,but she was really good in the
story. And I think I did worry,and I'm not sure what your
thoughts were on this. I worriedthat they were gonna show too

(33:12):
much when when it did turn outto be the the midnight entity.
There is that risk of going on.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
They were gonna actually show the entity, like,
reveal it this time?

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Well, that's what I was worried about. I mean, it it
had leaked in in a

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I think that would ruin it.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah. I think so. Like, I I feel like it

Speaker 2 (33:32):
imagine it's just a terrible, like, CGI monster.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
And that's what that's what I was worried about.
Like, I know before thatthey've, like in the Moffitt
era, they've gone, oh, like,let's lift up the ice warrior
helmet in one story, and thenyou see it. It's just a CGI
lizard thing underneath. You go,did did we need to see under the
ice warrior helmet? Like, didwe?
Has that just, like Yeah. Takenaway a bit of what makes them

(33:56):
cool? The other one was, like,when and I think this is a good
comparison to use. Like, if youif we take Blink to be, you
know, the comparison of RidleyScott's Alien

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
And then we take Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone to
be Ridley Scott's aliens beingthe sequel, you know, that I
kind of feel like it worked on afirst viewing seeing the angels
actually move, but you ruin That

Speaker 2 (34:32):
was what made them scary was that you couldn't.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Exactly. And you ruin that a little bit when you see
them move in the second in thatstory, in their in their first
follow-up. And I did worry,like, please don't do that,
Russell. Like, don't show us thecreature properly because
Midnight on a on a standaloneviewing is one of the classic

(34:58):
Doctor Who stories, and I dofeel like this is up there
actually in a different way withthat story. I don't think it's
quite at the level of Midnight,but I think I don't know.
It just had hallmarks of classicRTD, the character sacrifice,
but it's done well at the end,jumping into the well.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I think yeah. I I I liked that. That was good.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Like, seeing the whole, like, she's running,
like, how it flashes to her as akid. Like, I don't know. It just
you can you can say it's areally camp, but for some for
somehow, like, he's really goodat pulling that stuff off when
he does it. When he's on, he'son, I think. And I think he
pulls that off, and I like theidea because someone pointed
out, they're like, well, whydidn't the creature, like, jump?

(35:41):
Like so she's at the well. She'slooking down the well. The
doctor's running behind her.People are like, why didn't the
creature latch onto the doctorbecause she was facing away from
him. Right?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
And then and then the the assumption there would be,
well, that's what makes thatscene so great. It's that the
the the it probably it thatwasn't a hard and fast rule that
it had to be on someone's back.It just was playing around
since, like, it cop it waslearning in midnight. It was

(36:16):
assimilating and becoming, like,learning how to be. You've never
seen another life form.
Four hundred years later,somehow it's coming out of the
well, and it's just made up itsown rule. I'm just gonna hang on
people's backs. And, like,that's more interesting than
than a hard and fast rule tosay, well, from the moment it
realized what she was going todo, it just latched on to the

(36:36):
next person that was there, andshe didn't have to kill herself
at all. She was running down thething and throwing herself down
a well with a creature thatnever even left that tunnel room
or whatever. And then by the endof it, and I think that's a
really smart choice by the endto show it again and infer that
one of those two in the lastscene in the ship, once they've

(37:00):
been beamed back up or whatever,beam me up, Scotty, have been
beamed back up Mhmm.
Has it now and now it's achievedits goal. So whether or not they
do the story again, you can say,well, the doctor didn't beat
this thing again for a secondtime in a row, but this time,
it's now off world. It'sactually got out.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know what? Russell's setting up for the
body hundredth anniversaryepisode.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
And no doubt

Speaker 2 (37:24):
it will midnight creature's gonna come back.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Midnight verse David Tenen again.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
The one thing he could never read.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I remember seeing like, people have done memes
where it's like the poster forthe doctor doctor who hundredth
anniversary, and it's the tenthdoctor, the metachrist doctor
from the series four finale, thefourteenth doctor, and then like
another tenant doctor. As ifit's just like a multi doctor
story of tenants. It's just soaccurate, though.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
So real.

(38:18):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
I think I think we've got through anything else. I
mean, do you wanna just justwhile I've got you.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Oh, god.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yep. Do you wanna give me your high level thoughts
on the g t a six trailer?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Just a switch. Looks really, good.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Really good.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Great graphics. Excited. Excited to see more.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yep. Very good. No. I'm I'm really keen. I think
some people actually, I'm noteven gonna go there with that.
I'm not gonna go there. I'm notgonna open that can of worms,
actually.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
That's a different podcast.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
No. No. I'm I'm gonna open it right now. Oh. What's
your thoughts on this?
It gets delayed till May 26.Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I

Speaker 1 (39:06):
read something very interesting with someone going,
it's it's been it's the wishlist is now available on the
PlayStation store for the game.Mhmm. It's been delayed till the
05/26/2026. People

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Mhmm.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Were saying, I smell a rat with the fact the Wishlist
is out already. Like, it's ayear away, and they've dropped
the trailer. The the naturalassumption would be trailer
drops because they're appeasingthe audience because they had to
delay the game. There's a littleconspiracy I'm seeing floating
around that, like, they'vereleased a fake date, and that
it's actually coming at the endof the year, but they're they're

(39:44):
trying to avoid data leakersleaking game files and stuff. So
they're trying to throw it offto a later date, but they're
gonna just do a last minuteblack market kind of like.
Sorry. Black not black market.Black market. Black Friday drop,
and they're just gonna drop it,like, close to the end of the
year at some point. Yeah.
That's an interesting idea.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Great theory.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Great theory. Okay. Okay. You're done. Penelope,
we're getting rid of you.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
It's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Thank you so much. We'll get you back on the
podcast again so that I can talkat you. But no.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Either It's all working.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
But, honestly, honestly, look at me. It's been
wonderful.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's been Oh. A lot of time.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Someone's opening a door somewhere near me. Alright.
Let's get out of here. Catch youlater. Onto the next segment.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Alright. Catch Penelope. Next time, Thunder
Nerds.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Alright. A tip. Till next time. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Okay. Thunder Nerds, Lady Penelope not overly happy
with RTD two era. Veryinteresting. We'll have to get
her on again soon, possibly,closer to the final or after the
final to talk about whateverramifications come from that.
But now it's time for this.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Freely for oil in

Speaker 2 (41:08):
the eyes, I can throw my hand in the mouth. It's not a
mammoth. It's an ice warrior. Anice warrior.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
The ice warrior. How are doing, mate?

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Pretty good. How are doing?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I'm good. Do you like my intro for you? That's gonna
play every time you're on thepotty.

Speaker 5 (41:26):
I do like it. So it's pretty nice.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
I wanna talk to you about doctor who, shock horror.
That's the first thing we'regonna dive into, and then we're
gonna go and talk about g t asix. Lots to talk about with
that. But regarding doctor who,I wanna get your thoughts on

(41:51):
just to start with, levelthoughts on the RTD two era.

Speaker 5 (42:01):
It's certainly been a little surprising, I think. I
think we're all hoping, atleast, RTD fans were hoping for,
honestly quite honestly, alittle bit more of the same,
having the same level, the samequality of storytelling, same

(42:26):
quality of episode generaloverall quality of episodes that
we were getting back in theoriginal era. Hoping to see more
of that. Hoping to see more moremore kind of risks taken, I
guess. There were some risksthat Arty Arty did a lot in his

(42:46):
first era that we don't get I Idon't think we've really seen a
lot of in this one.
I think he's really, in someinstances, really played it safe
or safer than I would haveliked.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
It's interesting. It's very interesting. So so
Yeah. So with the the way he'skind of you know, we've got
musical numbers, things are veryoff the cuff, like, directly
very meta bringing in theaudience and the fans into
something like episode two withLux. See, I kinda think that

(43:25):
that's that is risky.
That is, like, something I'venever seen the show tackle
before. What kind of risksbecause you were watching did

(43:45):
you watch the entirety of theJodie Whittaker era as it was
airing?

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Yeah. I did.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
You did? And you you watched Capaldi. Like, you
you've you've been with the showup until this point. You have
been following the show kindasince whenever you got into it.
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (44:04):
Yeah. I mean, I this is a bit of a throwback for, all
of our other Australianlisteners. Back in back when ABC
only had one channel, it did arerun of the original series.
And because my mother is a bigfan of the original series, when
I was maybe, like, seven, eight,nine years old, something like

(44:28):
that, we sat down. We startedwatching it together.
So that's when I first startedgetting into it, and then,
obviously, the revival happened,and I was a little bit older at
the time. I could appreciate ita bit more. And I watched it
more so in earnest.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah. That's a long time ago. It's been a while.
What do you know what your firstdoctor was? Do you remember?

Speaker 5 (44:51):
I think from I think from memory, it was May I want
to say maybe the third. Yep. I'mnot I'm not too sure. I what
god. It's it's it's it's takingme it's taking me back a fair

(45:12):
bit.
There was I specificallyremember watching at least an
episode or two in black andwhite, and then I specifically
remember them switching Iremember watching the episode
they switched to color.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
That would be the first third doctor story.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
It was first? Third. Third. Yes. So potentially
potentially second, maybe maybeonly third was probably my first
one.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yep. And so in this modern kind of iteration of the
show, which we had knew who, nowwe've got almost like new knew
who, I guess, or the Disney,whatever you whatever you wanna
call it. Right? We've got RTDtwo. Okay?

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
It starts with the sixtieth specials. Now the
decisions made for the sixtiethI was having this chat earlier
to code name lady Penelope onthe podcast and talking about,
like, what's your thoughts onthe sixtieth specials kind of

(46:14):
not really celebratingholistically the history of
doctorhood. It it it's almostlike a season four point two
with the Donna and doctor, and,you know, I guess the toymakers
there, yes. Beep the Meep's aMarvel fourth doctor comic strip
villain from a story called theStar Beast. He brings that into

(46:35):
the show.
But overall, you'd say that it'skind of more a season four point
two than than a sixtiethcelebration. Like Yeah. Did you
enjoy the specials? Did you didyou enjoy Tenet and Tate when
they returned? I definitely knowupon watching it, I kind of was
skeptical, but I found myselfgoing, I think probably by Wild

(46:58):
Blue Yonder, gee, I actuallycould do with more of this.
And then Yeah. It gets takenaway from you so fast, and a new
doctor comes in. I I loved it.Could it have done with just
bringing in Chewdie Gatwa? Like,he's he he actually has, like, a
hangover of you know, the tenantgets the the new TARDIS first.

(47:20):
Tenet gets the the new introfirst. Gatward just has the same
title sequence with a minorchange here or there and his
name stitching, like, what'syour thoughts on the sixtieth
specials? Let's start there.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Oh, that's a deep topic to get into. I definitely
have my opinions on it. I thinkthat there is a lot in the
sixtieth specials that I likedor at least the concept of them.
There's a lot they could havedone better. There's a lot they
also could have donedifferently.

(47:55):
I think the dynamic betweenTitan Tenant has always been a
fan favorite and has always beenone of my favorites as well. I
think they made a really greatpairing. Yep. He he being
constantly almost foiled in away Mhmm. By Tate and being
brought up to task by Tate.

(48:17):
And it having not just having itbe a friendship and not this
potential romantic or sexualundertone that's taken roost in
most companions in the new newera, I think has been was really
nice. It was a really breath offresh air, and it was good to
see some of that kind of comeback. Am I a fan of the way it

(48:37):
came back? I mean, there'scertainly parts about that story
I'd change. I don't like howeasily they dealt with it.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Well, in the Starbase,

Speaker 4 (48:50):
you may,

Speaker 1 (48:50):
like, tenant like, as in, like, Tate's return as
Donna, like, getting hermemories back? Is that kind of

Speaker 5 (48:55):
Getting getting getting her memories back was
something that was going like,the doctor had already
established they'd alreadyestablished in the series. That
was going to have a dramaticeffect if that ever happened and
if he ever spent enough timearound her. I don't mind that
part of it. It's more just howthey dealt with the the fallout

(49:17):
of it. How how they basicallymitigated any risk and got rid
of the problem kind of with abit of an asshole, to be
perfectly fair.
I I don't I that's the way theywanted to go about it, that
could have been something thatthey built up towards maybe over
the course of all threespecials, and maybe that's a

(49:39):
payoff that we get towards theend of it rather than, oh, this
is something that all justhappens in the one special. I
would've it would've made morethematic sense to have it be
something built towards,especially because that was one
of that was one of the concernsfor a lot of fans going into

(49:59):
this is, oh, okay. Well, is isTate gonna be dead at the end of
this? Or if if if Captain Tateif Catherine Tide isn't gonna be
dead, how are they gonna dealwith it? I don't like them
dealing with it in the oneepisode when so much weight was
put behind it.
As for as for everything else, Imean, I think I think you'll

(50:20):
probably agree with me. WildBlue Yonder is probably my
favorite of the specials.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
%.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
Yep. I think the Toymaker I did enjoy I did enjoy
Neil Patrick Harris's portrayalof the toymaker. It would have
been this is again anotheranother section where I think
spending more time on that wouldhave been good, spending more
time with the character andbuilding up to his involvements.

(50:49):
Maybe there's maybe there's morethat he more sway that he
could've had, more things hecould've done over the course of
the three specials, but don'tmind that. I still think Mobbly
on is more more of a containedand consistent story than the

(51:10):
others.
And it did some world building.Mhmm. It really helped flush out
the the new dynamic between thecharacters as well a bit more.
Yep. Well, because that's theother

Speaker 1 (51:23):
thing it does. It takes It takes Tenet and Tate
into directions the charactershave never been before and just
them as actors into areasthey've never been in Doctor Who
because they're playingthemselves. They're also playing
the not things, the, you know,the the the copies of
themselves. Yeah. I think it's areally interesting thing with

(51:43):
Wild Blue Yonder because, youknow, I've just gone and said,
oh, doctor who sixtieth specialsfeel like, you know, series 4.2.
They do. Yeah. Yeah. Wild BlueYonder, it doesn't feel anything

(52:03):
like an anniversary special. Andyet because it's such a
succinct, well written, and wellpaced, and thought out story,

Speaker 4 (52:12):
you

Speaker 1 (52:15):
you forgive it for not being a typical anniversary
special. You you you just enjoy,and, you know, I think I speak
on behalf of a lot of peoplehere. And there's good things to
take out of the the chypnoleera. There is. I I know that
people say there's not I I dothink that there was a lot that

(52:36):
I didn't love, but there's alsothings in the the Whitaker and
the Chimnelira that I actuallydid enjoy.
I I particularly like not to goon a tangent here, but I I do
enjoy the pushes the TARDIS togo to a lot more different
locations across the world, notjust twenty first century kind

(52:58):
of England. I like that. So notnot to kind of, I guess, you
know, take a shit on that era,but I I I think that I'm
speaking on behalf of a lot offans when I say that it was just
good when Wild Blue Yonder camearound to see a great, great

(53:21):
Doctor Who story for the firsttime. Properly good story for
the first time in a long timewhen it came out, and you
forgave it for for not being atypical anniversary special. I
agree with you on the Toymakerfront.
I think that it's a good choiceof a villain. I mean, I I said
this to Lady Penelope earlier. Alot of people don't actually

(53:47):
even really like the celestialtoymaker story from the first
doctor. A lot of it's missing. Alot of it's just in
reconstructions, but it's notparticularly just that great of
a story.
It was more the character andthe idea, and he was meant to
come back in a Colin Bakerunmade season twenty three story
called the Nightmare Faire. Ithink it was gonna open the

(54:09):
original season twenty threebefore it became Trial of a Time
Lord, and that was gonna be withthe original actor. Now I agree.
Neil Patrick Harris is quitegood, but he's just not there
enough in the story. And it it'sthe longest of the specials, but
it just we don't get enough ofthe toymaker

Speaker 5 (54:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
In that story to to to leave going, that was really,
really good, I think. Like, it'sit's not bad. There's great
moments, but it's fleetingmoments where you go, oh, more
of that, more of this. Like, notjust confining him to, you know,
one room here or the unit HQ,like, what's he doing? What's

(54:52):
the scope of what he can do?
Like, let's see more of that inthe modern era.

Speaker 5 (54:58):
And see, that's something as well is that he's
described basically as the headof this pantheon, as potentially
the most powerful of thispantheon. And we do spend
technically more time with themthan we do end up spending with
any of the others, at least sofar. But this is where a a being

(55:18):
like this shouldn't be a one anddone in the one effectively in
the one special. I mean, havethat have him set the stage in
the first special. Have him bethe puppet master that he
proclaims to be and gives offthe gives off the aura of being

(55:42):
throughout the entire thing.
Have him maneuver the pieces.Have him set that up where he
forces he force somehow, heforces the regeneration back
into into the tenant doctor.Have him be the reason for that,
then turn around and go, oh,okay. Then I'm gonna throw him
in the most traumatizingsituation of being back in front

(56:06):
of Catherine Tae's character.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Mhmm.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
And go, oh, how's he gonna deal with this? Let's move
maneuver that around a littlebit. Let's okay. Deal with that.
Okay.
Boom. Let's throw them in asituation out in the edges of
space where they are forced toconfront each other and have
that all be the toymaker'sdesign, the toymaker's game, and
have the doctor and Catherinework through like, have Denon

(56:31):
and Tight work through all ofthat and try to progress in the
Toymaker's game, and then havethe the final level, the the
final gambit, the boss fight,whatever you wanna you wanna
whatever you wanna call it here,be that final special where
they've they've built up to itover time. They've gone, and

(56:53):
then they can actually have thatfinal confrontation with the
toymaker, have him be morepresent in the story instead of
just it it just feels likewhatever involvement he's had is
a bit kinda esoteric, for lackof a better word. It it doesn't
feel I'm not feeling the weightthis character should

Speaker 2 (57:17):
bring.

Speaker 5 (57:18):
And it's something, I think and and for a lot of
stories, I think a lot of peopleagree with me, but it's
something that I put a lot ofimportance behind is the weight
of the character, the weight ofdialogue, the weight that Thick
Springer. Should they have noweight? Should they have some?
Should they have a lot? And I Ithink it's a big it's a big

(57:43):
signifier that a story is goingto do well when it treats the
weight of its charactersproperly.
I think that this isn't it. TheyI don't think they did it right
here.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I wanna ask you a question. Right.

Speaker 5 (58:02):
Oh, no. Okay.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
What did you think of by regeneration?

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Oh, god.

Speaker 5 (58:17):
I'll tell you something I don't like about it.
I don't like that it's I'mpretty I'm I'm pretty sure it's
actually stated at some pointthat the doctor bi regenerates
from every single regeneration.I think that's just okay. First
of all, that's insane. Yeah.

(58:37):
That is a bit ridiculous. Andthen there's an unnecessary
amount of questions of, what?Did they all buy Regenerate into
shitty Gatwick's doctor? Didthey all buy Regenerate into the
next one down the line? Whosedoctor is this?
What's going on? Especiallybuilding on what happened with
the Chibnall era, which I haveproblems with. But Mhmm. With
the, basically, unlimited amountof doctors that came beforehand,

(58:59):
it feels like it feels like hejust it feels like ICD decided
to go, you know what? I'm gonnado my own version of the
Timeless Child and just make itby regeneration where we have a
million more doctors now.
I I don't know. I think if theycan paint it to just the one and

(59:20):
had it be a combination or to,like, just the one doctor and
had it be a combination of theinterference from a god Mhmm.
The toymaker, the god ofeffectively games and chaos, and
a significant amount of maybe,like, trauma or something like
that, where they could've theycould've built a decent enough
story surrounding that, and Iwould've been like, you know

(59:42):
what? Happy with that. Theycould've made it work.
I don't think it works as itcurrently stands. And to fix it
would probably require a lot ofretconning, which I don't like
doing because you shouldn't haveto you shouldn't, a, have to
retcon a story to make it good.If you've done that, you're
doing it wrong. And, b, I thinkthat it shouldn't be up to the

(01:00:05):
fans or to the masses to find anexplanation that actually works
for a story that wasn't toldwell, which has happened a lot
in recent eras, unfortunately. Ithink the BioRegeneration
definitely could've worked.
It could've been tweaked alittle bit better. I think it
takes away from Judy's doctorquite significantly, especially
especially the way they did it.I think because all of the focus

(01:00:28):
and importance put on was put onTennant's doctor, even though
it's a new doctor, it'sbasically the same one that kind
of puts elevates his importanceup quite a bit, which don't get
me wrong. I love Tenet. I lovehis portrayal of the doctor.
I think it puts more weight andimportance on his doctor over

(01:00:50):
any of the others, and it takesaway from them. But it takes
more away from Judy having toshare the screen with him in
those moments and being the onethat follows, especially when it
feels like he's just getting oh,he's getting the second hardest.
Oh, he's getting the second bestof all of this stuff. He's
getting the scraps, theleftovers, and it I that's not a

(01:01:11):
great way to start a new doctorseason, especially the first the
first black doctor, the firstopenly, at least, bisexual
doctor,

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
although in the latest episode doctor, to
clarify.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
What's that? Sorry?

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
The first full time black doctor, Joe Martin.
Exactly. So

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
But I I know what you're saying, and and and, you
know, it's it's it's interestingbecause see, I think I and I
can't don't point me here. I Icannot remember exactly what the
reason or quote was. Okay? But Iremember them saying, oh, you
know, why why does JodieWhittaker when she regenerates,

(01:01:53):
why why does the clothes change?What when she regenerates into
Tenet, like, he doesn't appearwearing the Jodie Whittaker
costume.
He the costume changes, andwe've seen that happen before.
Like, the first doctor, I think,regenerated, you know, back when
the idea was very new, the thethe first doctor regenerated and

(01:02:17):
his clothes changed with himinto the second doctor. Right?
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
But Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
You know? So I guess you can maybe you could say the
in reason the in universe reasonis the toymaker playing a game
and, like, I don't know, bringit we they don't really give a
clear the the clearestindication they give in universe
is, oh, this face came back toto say goodbye or to with Donna
or, like, he needed this or theygive a reason like that. They

(01:02:42):
don't give a clear reason.Right? But I guess what I'm
trying to get at with this iswhen he was asked about why he
made that choice, it wassomething like and, again, don't
quote me.
Was something like, oh, it'slike undermining to have a male
in a female's clothes. It wassomething like that. Like, it

(01:03:05):
looks silly or something like Ithink the most undermining thing
really, this is just my opinion,that you can do is is buy
regenerate the the first fulltime black doctor. Yeah. Like,
he comes through as a almostsplit off variant of the doctor.

(01:03:29):
Like, he's you'll have certaincorners of the fandom that'll
say he's not a true doctorbecause he Yep. Do do do you
understand where I'm going withthat? I'm not saying I agree
with it. I'm just saying thatthere's areas of the fandom that
will use that and go, well,technically, no.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
Yeah. Which is a shame. I mean, it's it and I in
my personal opinion, I don'tview those people as true fans.
If they're gonna if they'regonna start pulling that kind of
stuff, they're gonna startsaying that kind of stuff, it
kind they kinda have missed someof the core messages of doctor
who if they're saying that kindof thing. Yeah.
But I do, unfortunately, knowthat there is a world where

(01:04:14):
people are gonna think that,people are gonna say that, and
they're gonna undermine hischaracter, his acting, his place
in the show as a result. Andthat sucks because he is a good
actor, and he's shown that. Ithink he really has stepped to
the role massively in this newseason. I think he's really
settled. I think he's done wellthere, and I'd love to see more

(01:04:39):
of him.
But if the if the more vocalparts of these fringe sections
of the community have their way,they'd have him out and probably
have Tenen back him for anotherrun or something like that. I
know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
God. I love David Tenen, but we need to get past
that. Like, we need to we needto move forward. This show, in
my opinion, you know, I've heardrumors that one of the things
they are thinking of doing ifGatwa well, and apparently okay.
I'll put a spoiler tag here foranyone just in case.
Like, I'll put I'll put chapterpoints in this podcast as well.

(01:05:17):
So if you wanna go past here,like, we're gonna I just wanna
briefly say that there's rumors.I feel like we all know that.
Right? There's rumors that thatGatwick regenerate regenerates
in the final.
Might be true, might not. I'veheard rumors that one of the

(01:05:37):
options that they're floating isif is if that's true and and and
he's leaving the BBC becausethere's no guarantee yet about
the Disney deal renewing.Likely, I think at this point,
maybe it won't. There's rooms atthe BBC have genuinely

(01:06:02):
considered bringing Tenet backfull time, which I think it
could be the death of doctor O,genuinely. I'm not or at least
in this iteration of it becausehe's a he's a good actor, David
Tennant.
He's a good doctor. I'veactually come to appreciate him
in recent years more so than Ithan I ever did, to be honest.

(01:06:25):
But you're looking way too waytoo much into the past, I think,
if you keep kind of going downthat rabbit hole and bringing
Tenet back, and it's like,that's not what the show needs.

(01:06:46):
The show has survived for sixtyplus years because it moves
forward, and it it it itoccasionally looks behind its
shoulder and brings back a youknow, we we the Daleks come
back. The Scytheman come back.
The master, we always know, willend with, you know, I'm dying.
No. The doctor's defeated me.And then he'll turn up out of

(01:07:07):
nowhere, and the answer is, Iescaped, doctor. And everyone
gasps because the master's back,but we all knew he was always
coming back.
Right? But

Speaker 4 (01:07:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
So so we get that from doctor who. But to bring
back an actor in the sixtiethand then to bring back an actor
again possibly to to he he it'sbecoming the David Tennant show.
It's becoming David Who. Yeah.And, you know, that we do not

(01:07:40):
need, I think.
So that's just a little tangent.Hey. Talking about season two
before we get there, get whatcomes in. What did you think of
of season one?

Speaker 5 (01:07:55):
Season one, yeah, it it had some highs. It had some
lows.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Talk to me about the talk to me about the lows first.
What what were your lowestmoments?

Speaker 5 (01:08:10):
I don't think they at least at least in the first
season, and we'll get to thesecond season in a moment. But
in the first season, I don'tthink they treated the emotional
maturity of this doctor thatwell. I think that especially

(01:08:30):
when we are first introduced tothis doctor, the focus is on the
fact that, oh, he's basicallyjust he's gone to therapy, and
he's he's able to process hisemotions healthily, and he's
able to he's he's basically overmost of his trauma and a whole
bunch of stuff. I think that's Ithink the way they portrayed how

(01:08:55):
they how they dealt with thatand how the doctor deals with
that going forward was a littledisingenuous to to all of that.
He probably shows emotion maybea little too much at times to
the point where it seemed thethe whole thing seems a bit a

(01:09:15):
bit disingenuous.
Like, it doesn't feel like he isshowing almost the right emotion
for the right scene. There'sthere's moments like that.
There's certain stories like Dotand Bubble, I think, was a
really good one.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Think I

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
I did enjoy most of that. How they handled the end
of it was a bit interesting. Ithink it might have been it
might have been an acting thing.It might have been the dialogue.
It might have been somecombination.
I don't particularly like how atthe end she's just so violently

(01:09:56):
racist almost. Almost to thatscene of being, like, violence

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Oh, you didn't

Speaker 5 (01:10:01):
like that. After everything else. I I think
That's interesting. I only onlybecause I think it seemed a
little that didn't seem I mean,I guess, again, it could have
been the betrayal. Could havebeen a few different things.
I didn't feel like the characterreally meant it, almost. It it

(01:10:22):
just felt that felt odd. MindI've actually quite enjoyed the
the very the the at thebeginning, least, the subtle
undertones of of the race andracism throughout. But I think
that maybe, you know, the theend of it could have been

(01:10:43):
handled a little bitdifferently.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Can I ask you a question? Would is that is that
dead set one of your low points,that moment?

Speaker 5 (01:10:50):
Is that one what? That moment?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Towards the end of Dot and Bubble. Would you are
you putting that in a low lowlow point of the season, or does
is it middling? Like I mean,

Speaker 5 (01:10:59):
I I don't I wouldn't consider it a low point, I
think. I think it's probablyprobably closer to the middle
there. That's just I think it'sjust the betrayal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
The betrayal from that actress in that moment for
you towards the end. See, I thatis one of my highlights of the
Gatwick era thus far, I wouldsay. That's one of my absolute
highlights. That moment.

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
I I In this era,

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
I can see that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah. For mine, I think that, like, I really,
really liked how they built upto that moment throughout the
episode and then the way he'skind of just seething by the
end.

Speaker 5 (01:11:47):
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
And the choice of

Speaker 5 (01:11:49):
I thought it was

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
The the choice to be like, hey. Let's what if what if
the doctor doesn't get upset?Oh, sorry. He doesn't he doesn't
he's not angry. He's just upsetthat he couldn't save this
person, that he wouldn't thatthey wouldn't allow him

Speaker 5 (01:12:09):
To save them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
To save them. That's a really interesting choice.
Like and that's what the doctorwould do. He would he would put
that aside, that racism aside inthat moment, and he would go, I
don't care about that. Justallow me to save all of you.
And I I I love that choice. Ifeel like that's the kind of

(01:12:31):
character choice that we justdidn't get in the Chibnall era.
Like, that that subtlety of ofcharacter and what they would do
in the moment. It's similar, Ithink, to and what a great
performance he puts in in Lux.Like, some of the way they

(01:12:52):
handle racism in that story isjust clever writing, and it's
subtle, but it works.
And that's what we we liked abit of that in the tribunal era.
That's just as simple as it iswithout going into it. We just
lacked a little bit of that. Theideas were there a lot of the
time. Sometimes not.
I'm looking at you, Orphan 55,and Tessera and Gunundrum or

(01:13:14):
whatever. But, like, there wereideas, but they just didn't
always execute the ideas thatthey had in that era. But here,
that's a great moment. I think73 yards in season one is a
highlight. That story I'veactually

Speaker 5 (01:13:26):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Come to really like on a rewatch. Part one of the
finale is very good.

Speaker 5 (01:13:40):
Oh, I knew you were gonna get to that. Yeah. Yeah.
No. I I agree.
Part one is part one is good.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Part two?

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
Mhmm.

Speaker 5 (01:13:51):
Part two. Wow. What a letdown that was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
I think it's like I think the thing that is, like,
hard to buy is, like, that it'syou know, they they build up in
that time window in part one andand and how you you know, the
TARDIS is there, and thensomething's near it, and she's
pointing at something. And, youknow, the mystery of who Ruby
is, the snow is being built up,and then the way that the the

(01:14:19):
officer goes behind the TARDIS,and then he can see me. I'm I'm
in hell. Like, it's like there'ssome really, really rad fucking
moments in that Yeah. In thatpart one.
And then for a moment, thinkit's the beast from season two
because I go, you know, I I cansee it. It's the beast. Like,

(01:14:40):
Carla kinda says that, and yougo, oh my god. Is it the beast?
And then, well, it's the samevoice actor.
It's Gabriel Wolf, voice actorof the original SuTech 1975 and
the beast from the Satan pitFebruary and, what, six. And
then to hear him come back, andit's super tech. And and it's it
is well done. The the the wholearts and anagram is a little bit

(01:15:01):
like, it's not even the rightspelling, but, like, it's a it's
a really well done cliffhanger.A really great homage to
Pyramids of Mars.
It's freaking awesome. Like,Russell d Davies, I take my hat
off to ye. But part two, when wefind out that Sutek's been with
him, and then it cuts to, like,to all these times the TARDIS

(01:15:27):
has has kind of landed sincethen. It's like it it's it's a
retcon that just isn't needed,and it doesn't work. You you you
can you can do something similarby by saying since Wild Blue
Yonder, he's been on the TARDIS,and I'll buy it because the
wheeze has been there since WildBlue Yonder.
Like Yeah. What are we get whatare we what are we doing here?

(01:15:47):
Are we gonna do a George Lucasand go and re edit all the
doctor episodes before and havea wheezing, groaning sound in
every now and then with theTARDIS? And, like Yeah. Do know
what saying?
It just doesn't you could havethat from Wild Blue Yonder
because it first appears there,and then it happens again in The
Devil's Court, and then ithappens again I can't remember.
But the point is it happens inthe first season. You could have

(01:16:07):
it through that first season,and you go, cool. Su Tech's been
there since he's the one whowaits. He's been there however
long in universe.
That's fine. You don't need itto be since the Pyramids Of Mars
or whatever the the inferenceis. I can't remember. I've
watched it once, so I don'tanyway. And that that they don't

(01:16:29):
really result know what we neverget an answer for?
We never get an answer for thesnow and why it's Don't. We
don't. They'd never could wefind out that Ruby's mother is a
normal mother? Kinda took afterthe whole Rey plot twist with
that one. He kind of and I'veread that Russell liked the Rey
plot twist in The Last Jedi, andI don't mind that twist.
I don't mind it being a normalperson. But if you build it up

(01:16:51):
to be more than a normal person,if you build it up so there's
snow that freezes in time andeven when it doesn't snow there
and somehow it's and then younever answer that, I go so so
this, and I said this to Benelbyearlier, there's two trains of
thought here. The first one, theending just is a little bit

(01:17:16):
rushed. Doesn't make sense. Thesecond, though, is is an
interesting prospect becauseseason two episode one and three
almost, I know episode one forsure, they were filming when the
Star Beast aired.
The first Tenet special aired,they were shooting the second

(01:17:37):
season of Gatwa. Okay? Thatmeans that here's what we know
that means. That means theydidn't air season one, see what
the fans thought, take on sometake on some criticisms, take on
some feedback, and go, let'slet's recalibrate. So even

(01:17:59):
though we all and I thinkthere's a general consensus that
season two is resonating morewith the fans.
I think I think it is. I thinkBelinda's been a great addition
to this doctor and works a lotbetter with him than Ruby does,
and I think that he I agree withyou, we'll get into the well
soon. Yeah. He has reallystepped up this season, and I'm

(01:18:26):
now going, oh, now I see him asthe doctor. Do I like the crying
all the time?
No. Do I like the leg kick assqueens? Not really. I don't
think a 2,000 plus year old timelord from Gallifrey who's the
PTSD war veteran of I I don'tthink he'd do that personally.
That's very, like, you know,millennial.

(01:18:47):
Think, like Yeah. Yeah. It's ait's a bit weird for the doctor
to just but, anyway but for themost part, when when they get it
right like the well, they get itright, and he delivers there.
Okay? But what I'm what I'm whatwas I even getting at?
I had a point that I was tryingto get to. Can't remember. What

(01:19:07):
was I talking about? Shit. I'veforgotten.
Can you remember? I don't knowwhat I was talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
You're going off on a tangent. I was just letting you
go.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
On a complete tangent. Sorry, Thunder Nerds. I
was talking about something withokay. We're back. Okay.
I remember what I was talkingabout. I was talking about no
gaps when filming season one andtwo. So the second option that I
was getting at is, well, if theywere written so close together,

(01:19:38):
maybe everything we've seen thusfar and the the the strangeness
of how that first season ended,maybe that's only half the story
here. Like, maybe we need tolook at the final Yeah. Of
season two and go, RTD, yougoddamn genius.
The whole fan, like, the thewhole audience thing that the

(01:20:01):
doctor's in a show theory fromseason one. I mean, we've
already seen that he literallycomes out of the TV in season
two. That was filmed before allthese theories came out because
season one had an aired. Sopossibly That's right. It's all
intentional, and we're gonna getan extremely meta finale where
the fans become part of theresolution or something and not

(01:20:23):
just a cameo in episode two.
That's what some people weretheorizing. Maybe. Maybe we just
need to wait until the end andtalk about it, but let's get in
and talk about the well. Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
Do we wanna do we wanna touch on the the rest of
season two before we get intothe well, or do we wanna just
dive into the well?

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Yeah. If you look go for your high level thoughts on
the first two episodes. Go forit.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
First two? Yeah. I really, really, really, really
enjoyed Lux. I thought that wasa fantastic episode.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
And that says everything you need to know
about the robot revolutionbecause he's just skin bright.

Speaker 5 (01:21:05):
Damn. You found me out.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
A lot of people actually liked the robot
revolution. Personally, I

Speaker 5 (01:21:15):
I your brain off. Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
didn't like us is that we can't Yeah. We're gonna
be critical. Yep. But I think Ithink there's definitely fun to
be found there. I just don'tthink it's my kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
There's a good idea in every Doctor Who story.
Stipulate it with that. There'salways a good idea somewhere in
a forty five, however longminute episode of Doctor Who.
There is always a good ormultiple good ideas that could
make a whole other film premiseor TV show premise and is just
one singular story of doctorwho. That must be said.

(01:21:52):
It just wasn't my calibrateddoctor who lux, though. Continue
on.

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. Definitely. I definitely did
like the I I did like the kindof initial introduction of
Belinda in her hospital workingaway.
I think having her be a nurse tothe doctor's doctor is gonna be
an interesting it's gonna be aninteresting relationship to see

(01:22:21):
develop over time. I Lux, Ithink, was just fantastically
done. We touched on it earlierwith talking about Dot and
Bubble, which don't get mewrong. I loved the episode. I
love I loved especiallyShootie's reaction to not being
able to save them, I think wasperfectly handled there.

(01:22:43):
I think the way that theyhandled the racism undertones
racial undertones of the, like,nineteen fifties era that they
found themselves in was reallyinteresting. And they continued
that line throughout the rest ofthe episode. That's the kind of
risk I'm expecting him to take,especially with this kind of

(01:23:07):
doctor. I'm expecting him totake these kinds of risks, which
is good to see. Lux as acharacter, I thought he was
funny.
I thought the concept wasinteresting.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
So well designed.

Speaker 5 (01:23:20):
Very much had that kind of cartoonish kind of
whimsy to parts of the episodeand to the interactions with the
character with those very subtleYep. Un evil kind of undertones,
which I thought was great. Itadded some more weight to it.
I'm a big fan of that. I thinkthe way they ended it was also

(01:23:41):
the way the way it ended

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
I loved it. I'm not sure if you Lady Penelope, my
sister hated it, but I I knowyou, because I watched this with
with Hardstar. I you just burstout into laughter when that
laughter. I don't know why. Ijust it's so RTD, but I just
loved it.
But tell me, what did you think?You you you thought him going up

(01:24:06):
into the sky, I am everything,and I am nothing. Like, you you
weren't a fan or what?

Speaker 5 (01:24:12):
Okay. So this is gonna be a Internet deep cut.
Alright? This is gonna beInternet deep cut for anyone who
knows this. There's a show thatis done it was done primarily on
YouTube called The BravestWarriors, and it's just a it's
just a bit of a piss daycartoon.
It is it's I quite enjoy it,though. It's it's a bit weird.

(01:24:36):
It's a bit out there. It's a bitfunny. I think a lot of people
should definitely give it a go.
There is a moment where acharacter, it's so it's so dumb.
There's a character who timetravels back into the past to
see their younger self, to seethe the birth of this universe
encompassing entity that wasoriginally a it's this entity

(01:25:03):
ends up being a AI generatedperson from a holodeck style
situation that somehow managesto step outside of the holodeck
and gain sentience. And thenafter gaining sentience, he
starts just getting, in thisepisode, larger and larger. And
eventually, it he just almostexplodes outward and encompasses

(01:25:27):
the entire universe.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):
And it's exactly the same as what happens with Lux.
And I cannot get this thing.It's a tiny little pink elf dude
that just encompasses theuniverse and everything. I love
it. I I don't know why.
Just feel

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
so freaking funny. Out. Oh, that's hilarious. It's
well it's well made episode ofdog show, though.

Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
I'll go to the I'll share the scene after this. It's
pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
Please. Please. Please. Please. I need I'm
frothing at the mouth, bro.
I need you to tell me about thewell.

Speaker 5 (01:25:59):
Let's let's dive into the well, lassie. Right. The
well. Ugh. I mean, what what canwe say about The Well?
It was a fantastic story. Top tobottom, one of the most
consistent of this era, probablythe most consistent of this era
if I'm being perfectly honest.It was handled so well. The

(01:26:22):
tiniest little bits of wellbuilding that they had, the way
they interacted with a deafcharacter in the series, and the
how that deaf characterinteracted with the rest of the
other characters, theintroduction of the planet being
oh, it's it's midnight. Havingthis be another standalone
instead of being a two parter, Ithink, actually works better in

(01:26:44):
this instance.
I love the introduction of of ofthe way that the beast has
evolved over time.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
I just wanna call this out while I'm thinking of
it. That was a huge I saw thatafter the episode in Reddit
forums, and and I was a massivefan of this episode. I think,
overall, a lot of people wouldsay that's the best story since
probably the Capella era. Like,I I'd say that while Pleiander
was probably at, for a moment,maybe 73 yards took over, maybe.

(01:27:16):
I'm not sure that's subjective,but I would I would say that a
lot of people would agree withme when I say that this was an
amazing Doctor Who story.
And I don't know if it's onmidnight's level. I'm not sure.
I need to watch it a few moretimes, but I think that it's
damn close to being in that samestratosphere. It's in the same

(01:27:38):
stratosphere. Sorry.
But it's damn close to beingalmost equally as good, but for
different reasons. It's theentity. Some people had problems
in Reddit forums going, youknow, entity didn't copy people.
You know, if I didn't know itwas being died, it was a
different entity. Like, no.
I don't like it. Well, Russell'sgone and said that he was

(01:28:00):
writing this story. And at somepoint, he went, you know what?
Who am I kidding? Like, it's ait's a cold, uninhabitable
planet.
It's, you know, decimated with awho am I kidding? It's a sequel
to Midnight. Let let's notpretend it's not. I'm just gonna
it is this is Midnight from nowon in this script. Right?

(01:28:22):
So it initially wasn't. Now inmy opinion, and I think I've
seen that other people echo thissentiment, like, it's a four
hundred thousand year evolvedlife form now. When it first saw
people in midnight, it had neverseen another life form before.

(01:28:44):
It was copying and learning, andnow four hundred thousand years
later, it comes out of a well.All the diamonds have been
mined, and it's not gonna be thesame.
It it you got everything youwanted out of the copying
gimmick in midnight. What moredo you want? Like, it's more
interesting that it's evolvedand it's changed the game and

(01:29:05):
the rules and how it works. Andprobably just off the top off
off the cuff, it's just donethat because it wanted to.
That's that's interesting.
I think that's a better way ofdoing it. And that the the the
the horror is handled well forthe age range that you're
working with of who will bewatching this show. The suspense

(01:29:28):
is extremely well done, and theperformances are top notch in
this story. Everyone knows thatthey're working with a class a
script, and they are they arekind of ripping and roaring as
they do it because he can tellthat they know that they're onto
something.

Speaker 5 (01:29:48):
Yeah. No. I I % agree. I think they handled it
well. I think everyone who wasin it really put the weight
behind their words, and theythey it's clear that they all
they were taking this seriously.
This is this was not a storythat they were phoning in, and

(01:30:08):
you can kinda see that incertain stories in in doctor who
and and, obviously, in othershows and movies where certain
actors will

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Shout out, 55.

Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
Phoning in the role. What's that?

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
I said, shout out, Olphin 55 again.

Speaker 4 (01:30:23):
Oh, jeez.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Do recall that story from Jodie's hero? You're right,

Speaker 5 (01:30:26):
though, mate. You're gonna keep doing this to me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
I'm gonna keep on doing it to you. You know,
you're right. That that no one'sphoning it in. Everyone's taking
it dead set seriously.

Speaker 5 (01:30:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
It's it's got a great set design as well. Music's
wonderful. There's a lovely badwolf motif as they're dropping
down to the planet in one shotthat I'm not sure I've seen many
people talk about, but I thoughtit was really freaking awesome.
It is solid, solid doctor who.Gatwa, you know, this being one
of my things with him, like, I II haven't I didn't love him in

(01:30:56):
season one Thunder Nerds.
I he's actually down the bottomof my rankings of doctors,
actually. But he's climbing thatlist a bit. He's moving up a
couple of spaces with Lux, withthe well. I'm keen to see where
he goes from here, but I tellyou what, he asserts himself as

(01:31:16):
the the authoritative presencein the room the moment he gets
into that colony base. And heopens the door, and all the
soldiers are behind him, and heknows sign language, and he
immediately asserts himself,takes control.
Soldiers might go, what the hellare we trusting him? Shut up.

(01:31:37):
And you go, you know what? I buythat. This guy is the doctor,
and that is something I feellike I haven't had a lot of in
this era.
And I know when I'm watching,and I I know my doctor who, and
I know when I'm watching a storythat's a timeless classic, when

(01:31:57):
I start going, I wonder whatCapaldi would do in this story.
I wonder what Eccleston woulddo. I wonder what Tom Baker
would do. That's when I know.When I when that thought comes
into my mind, I know I'mwatching a story that is
elevated above any doctor that'splaying it.
It's just a timeless classicdoctor who story, and then you
start going, what would otherdoctors do if they were the

(01:32:18):
doctor here? But it is Gatwareis on fire, and, man, he just he
owns he his doctor works so wellin the grunginess of dot and
bubble sewers where he's he'sjust so disappointed at the

(01:32:40):
humanity and the the the thestink of humanity and what they
and the and the fact that theythey wouldn't they'd rather die
than than than be offered thehand of a black man. He he works
when he's standing on a landminethat's you know you know, what
what is it, clerics in the inthe in the future who who are

(01:33:03):
being killed, like, by their ownequipment. Like

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
He works in the grunginess and in the shadows.
That's where this doctor, whenthey get it right, not space
babies, not the robot revolutionperson. Yeah. This is all those
are the stories. These ones thatI'm calling out here, in my
opinion, are where this doctorthrives.

(01:33:28):
And when he's given thatmaterial, he he excels.

Speaker 5 (01:33:33):
Well, the reason and the reason why he does is
because he is the antithesis toeverything that happens in those
stories in in those situations.He is this doctor more than any
other, more than, I'd say, morethan Tenet and more than

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
I

Speaker 5 (01:33:52):
mean, more than any of the that have come before, he
is the happiest. He's the mostjoyful. He's the most bright and
and Energetic.

Speaker 4 (01:34:02):
Loving and

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
open and kind like, he's he's all of these things.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
And

Speaker 5 (01:34:07):
that can that can work. And we've seen like, we
we've seen in these stories thatthat does work for this doctor
when you allow him the space todo that in a story that works
against his character.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
That's a great point. So it's it's putting a doctor
who's energetic, lively, happy,and sees the universe full of
wonder. It's it's then puttinghim in scenarios of the
antithesis of that and going,how does he now deal with this?
Yeah. We know what he's likewhen he's running around and
he's the the, you know, yeah.
Well, I'm doing this. I'm doingthis. I'm so but what do you do

(01:34:44):
when you put him in a scenariowhere there is no hope? Where
there's sheer horror, wherethere's where there's, you know,
where humans are the worst kindof thing in the room, like the
you you dotting bubbles, yourbooms, and then you get here and
there's just something that ishe's so out of his depth in in
the world.

Speaker 5 (01:35:04):
Oh, yeah. Like, put him out of his depth. Put him
put him in a waters of Marsstory. See how this doctor deals
with the Waters of Mars. Thatwould be fascinating to see.
That would that would be asituation

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
where, like thing, Mark. I I guess

Speaker 5 (01:35:21):
That could be something that could have
triggered the bud regeneration,though, too, is that have him do
that. Yeah. Have him be haveTenet's regeneration do
something so horrificallyhorrible that it borders on the
edge of would would he even bethe doctor if the doctor did
this anymore? Have that combinedwith anything else to trigger
the bi regeneration. Like, I andhave his have shooty gat with

(01:35:43):
doctor come out of a situationlike that.
Like, there's ways to tie thisin. There really is.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
I think I think

Speaker 5 (01:35:49):
I really I wanna see more. I do.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
I think at its simplest, it's to say, in my
opinion, this is the Doctor Whothat I like. I'm I'm always been
much more of the the grungy, youknow, high concept sci fi ideas.
I like a historical as well, butthat tone of where they go in

(01:36:12):
boom and towards the end of dotand bubble and and and here in
the world, that's the tone thatI enjoy. And I know that Russell
likes to have different genres.Like, he might go, oh, let's
give more of a a kind of youngerviewing audience first episode
like space babies, like partnersin crime with tenants doctor,

(01:36:33):
like Smith and Jones wherethere's talking rhinos on the
moon, like the robot revolution.
Right? Like a floppy bouncingtrampoline, like, that's
talking. That's you know, he Iknow he likes to genre hop like
that, and then all of a sudden,we're kind of doing what is it?

(01:36:54):
Bridgerton? Is that the show?
The where in Rogue, they're kindof at the ballroom dancing, and
they're kind

Speaker 5 (01:36:58):
of Yeah. Yeah. Bridgerton.

Speaker 1 (01:36:59):
Yeah. You know, like and then and then all of a
sudden we're doing sci fi. Like,I get it. I know what we're
going with there. It's just tome, it's like, oh my god.
There's a winning your WobbleyYonders, your Waters of Mars,
your Saint in Pits, The Well,those types of stories, the not

(01:37:20):
even just the setting in thefuture, the tone of the story,
the darkness. If you leaned intothat tone for an entire season,
you went, I'm not we're gonnawe're we're still gonna hop
through different periods oftime and space and different
planets and space stations andback into the past. And if you

(01:37:41):
still want we're gonna do thefundamentals of doctor who, but
that's gonna be the tone for aseason. You would be playing
with maybe one of the greatseasons of modern who if you
just stuck to it. And and didn'tgo into areas of, like, Sue Tex,
the been on the TARDIS sincesince forever.
It's like you don't have to dothat. Give us something more

(01:38:03):
bring bring it down and just,like, really laser focus into
some character studies, somehigh concept ideas, some some
some tales of morality and whichdoctor who does really well in
the past. Like, take away doctorhas always been political, but,

(01:38:25):
you know, it's I think it wasMoffett that said and, you know,
I won't go too far in this, itwas Moffett that said, I
believe, you know, the doctorshouldn't take sides. He's not
he's not like a I'm I'm not surewhat the political I can't
remember what the politicalparties in The UK are. Like,
Tories and is that Labor, is it?

Speaker 5 (01:38:47):
Or Tories and god. I'm I'm blanking

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
the source. I'm blanking on it. Completely
blank. But the point is it'slike, you know, he's neither
there he's neither that side.He's neither this side.
The doctor is an ephemeral beingin time and space. He's above
the petty politics of humanbeings. And it's it's you're
playing you know, it's fine tobring politics in, but you've
gotta in my opinion, you gottadabble there, and he shouldn't

(01:39:13):
take sides per se. He and andwhen you do that, you are
risking alienating part of theaudience. And sometimes doctor
who, I think, in recent years,has dabbled too far into, you
know, the doctor taking a sideon poly and and here's a great
example in doctor who in themodern era of the doctor not

(01:39:35):
taking a side, but he's got anextremely strong viewpoint on
his beliefs and his stance, thatis Capaldi's zygon inversion
speech about war.
That's an example where thedoctor can see both sides. He
speaks to both sides. He's gotthem in the same room, and he'll

(01:39:58):
tell them what he thinks. He'lltell them, I fought in a bigger
war than than, you know, youwould ever know. But he's not
taking he's not taking one oftheir sides, but he's got a real
opinion about this and what hethinks needs to happen.
And it's but it's done in a waywhere you go, yes, instantly,

(01:40:20):
that's the doctor. That's whathe would do.

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
This has been a good chat. We've still got a few
episodes to go. I think we needto definitely reconvene on the
potty once the finale's droppedto talk about how it all turned
out. Yeah. Now, though, I thinkwe need to dive in.

(01:40:47):
You know what I'm gonna say? Toa chat on the GTA six trailer.
Let's dive into that. Hi, Sta.GTA.
Did you play GTA growing up?Like, what what's your kind of

(01:41:09):
history with GTA?

Speaker 4 (01:41:11):
I remember

Speaker 5 (01:41:12):
when I was very young playing a bit of GTA Vice City
on my older half brother'sPlayStation at the time when we
were visiting for, like, anight. I remember playing that.
I played the crap out of GrandTheft Auto San Andreas. That
was, like, my main GTA as Ispent so much time Yep. In San

(01:41:36):
Andreas just doing everything,cheating my way through it just
so much.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
How good was it, like, getting a magazine and it
had the cheat codes in it? Andyou'd like

Speaker 5 (01:41:47):
I I still have a magazine around

Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
so good. That was that's retro. That's retro.

Speaker 5 (01:41:53):
I remember I remember when I was I I oh god. I I was
still I was sleeping in a bunkbed with my twin brother, and he
was on the he was on the topbunk. And I remember writing,
like, looking up cheat codes atschool, writing the cheat codes
down on a piece of paper,sticking it underneath his top

(01:42:15):
bunk bed so I can look up andjust, like, put the cheat codes
in as I'm playing. Or I'm just,like, laying down and I'm just
looking up and checking, oh,yeah. Cool.
Do that one. And just, like, oh,yeah. Max health. Yep. Cool.
Max helmet. Yep. Awesome. Andjust oh, god. Those were the
days.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
So good. So good. Did you play GTA four or GTA five? I

Speaker 5 (01:42:35):
I touched a bit of GTA four. I played a little bit
of GTA five, but it wasn't,yeah, it wasn't much.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Yeah. Okay. And and what about but you played Red
Dead two.

Speaker 5 (01:42:49):
Oh, Red Dead one and two. Just Amazing. So much.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Yep. Yeah. Yep. So GTA six sorry. I was gonna say
'5.
GTA six gets a trailer in lateshit. What year was it? 2023,
possibly? I

Speaker 5 (01:43:10):
think so.

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
I think it might have been, like, late twenty three or
I don't think it'll be 2022,surely. But, anyway, so it it
drops a it drops a trailerinitially. Yeah. Now a delay. We
get a notification, you know,GTA six being delayed.
We get a the first date, though,that we've ever seen attached to

(01:43:35):
it, an actual date, 05/26/2026.We're sorry we're delaying it,
but here is the date. So wehadn't seen that before. Right?
Now the trailer drops, I hadwoken up extremely early in the
morning just very unusual, likethe body clock had woken me up

(01:43:57):
early.
That doesn't usually happen forme. I go and check my phone.
There's a notification from achannel I'm following there on
YouTube, GTA six trailerreaction. I go, hang on a
second. What?
I I of course, I load upstraight away. I go, what's
going on here? Yeah. Thetrailer's there. It was at
27,000,000 views by the time Isaw it within six hours, more

(01:44:19):
than than the entire populationof Australia, I believe.
I'm not sure what we're at atthe moment, but it was around
26, 20 seven. The point is it ithad reached pretty much the the
population of Australia withinsix hours that had seen it, and
I think in twenty four hours, Iread that it got to around
465,000,000 views or somethinglike that. Something crazy

(01:44:39):
within a day. I think thatsafely quietens a few of the
people that were saying no one'sinterested in this game anymore.
It's taking too long.
Like, this game is extremelyanticipated. GTA five, the last
time I looked was, and I do notthink until something like GTA

(01:45:04):
six comes along will willremain. So it is the most
profitable piece of any form ofmedia in history. Like, it's
about it's it's it's grossedover $8,000,000,000 or something
thus far GTA five. Somethingcrazy.
The budget for this one we hearis over a billion dollars just

(01:45:24):
the budget to make the game,which is unheard of. Right? Now
give me your thoughts on thetrial because the the first when
it played, I just went, holyshit. The I I I thought for a

(01:45:45):
fleeting second that I waswatching I I the first thing I
thought to myself when I saw thefirst the first few opening
shots, thought, why why is therereal people in the start of this
trailer? Like, I'm waiting forgay I I wanna see the game.
I'm not I don't wanna see, like,a little live intro of real and
then I went, that's not realactors. That's gameplay. What's

(01:46:11):
your thoughts on that? Did youdid you have a similar thing?
Like, did you have a momentgoing, wait.
Yeah. That's graphics? Like

Speaker 5 (01:46:18):
It I felt I felt the same way I did when I used to be
playing through the Need forSpeed games as a kid where they
would interject some hyperrealistic video into a cut scene
that wasn't really it was agameplay cut scene, but it was
very much their attempt to makeit as look as live action as
possible. I was like, this isamazing. The the way that they

(01:46:44):
like, the way you could see thecarbonation in the drinks, the
way you could see even just thephysics of how the water
operates as people are movingthrough. My god. And this is
this is as it is now.
This is not it in a year fromnow. This is not this is it on a
base PS five. This is not it ona high end PC. Holy crap. This

(01:47:09):
is going to this game is goingto look phenomenal.
It I mean, the trailer alreadylooks amazing, but trailers
always gonna do that. But thisis going to be the biggest
gaming release potentially ofall time, or at least for or
have you know, at least for awhile, maybe only closely

(01:47:30):
followed by Elder Scrolls sixwhen that finally releases,
because that's got a fairlysubstantial

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Do we know what the do

Speaker 5 (01:47:38):
we know what the failing.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
Do we know what the profits were for the original?
Or, like, Elder Scrolls five? Or

Speaker 5 (01:47:45):
Elder Scrolls five is Skyrim.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
Yeah. Do we do we have a total gross thus far of
how much that game's made?Because I don't think it'll be
anywhere near GTA.

Speaker 5 (01:47:57):
Come out with, like, five or six different variations
of it, though. So it's it's

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:48:01):
Probably the most rereleased game ever as well
with how many times differenteditions

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
Well, GTA five can't be that far behind given it came
out on a PS three, gotrereleased on the PS four, then
got out on PC. Like, that that'sbeen rereleased to shoot as
well. I'm gonna bring up thetrailer. I don't know if this is
gonna copyright me, but let'slet's just watch the trailer.
Can can you see my screen?
Let's Yes. I I can see it. Watchthe trailer. Thunder, as I hope
you can hear this as well. I'mgonna hit the play button.

(01:48:27):
Let's have a listen and watchthrough, maybe just pause here
and there and have a chat. Herewe go. God. I just can't believe
that we're good. That's crazy.
That shot there right there.

Speaker 5 (01:48:42):
That

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
yeah. Seriously, dude. You got some time on your
hands. I got some propertieswith paying tenants.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
Well, that's why you came by?

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
Just Like, the way that the character that's
gameplay right there. You cantell that's gameplay. That's
transitioning to him walkingaway, and, like, then you'd be
walking right there.

Speaker 5 (01:48:58):
The reflection reflection in the car windows?

Speaker 1 (01:49:02):
Oh, I know. And and how fluidly they they move.
Their bodies move.

Speaker 5 (01:49:07):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
Do you know what I mean? They're so look at these

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
This is

Speaker 5 (01:49:10):
catching on a base PS five by

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
the way. Base PS five. That's craziness.

Speaker 5 (01:49:14):
Like, look at the way the look at the the business of
the water operate in thosedrinks.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
Look at that. Look at the NPCs, like, getting arrested
and shit.

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
I'm here for Lucia Caminos. She's supposed to be
getting out.

Speaker 1 (01:49:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:49:24):
What's your name?

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
Jason Duvall.

Speaker 4 (01:49:26):
This is

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
this is a really well cut together

Speaker 3 (01:49:29):
You might have

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
trailer of ambiance as well, but also stories. Yeah.
It's really well done.

Speaker 5 (01:49:34):
Look at the lighting here.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Oh my god. It's giving, like, Red Dead two when
when that came out. We're alljust shocked by how good the
dynamic lighting in the gamewas.

Speaker 2 (01:49:43):
Same party. Heads above your head. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
Show me

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
the story. I remember in the time The new beginning.
You

Speaker 1 (01:49:51):
make the new Look at that. Look at the water there.
Oh my god. The clouds.

Speaker 2 (01:49:57):
Trust me. This place is

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
just

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
as

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
far apart. Just just the what the NPCs are doing, it
seems, in this game and theirbecause think about just I have
to pause it here. Like, I Ithink about, like, the
advancements they've made in thelast few years in AI, what they
can have the NPCs just do now.Yeah. Crazy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
We're this. We're doing it right. Oh,

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
man. I I cannot wait for this game.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
They got your name, address. They got everything.

Speaker 1 (01:50:28):
I've never been a big, like, GTA Online person
personally, but, like, I lovethe main stories of

Speaker 3 (01:50:36):
Rockstar Games. Red Dead, Bully, GTA, like, so good.

Speaker 5 (01:50:42):
They're looking at why they're trading even just
the pieces of their hair I know.As it operates. So you can see
the individual hair move.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
I just can't get over that this is a base PS five.
It's it's actually it's blowingmy mind.

Speaker 5 (01:50:53):
Look look at the carbonation on the drink right
there and the condensation onthe outside. Like, Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:51:00):
God, it looks good. And you said you were Vice City
was

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
your first, was it? So this is a

Speaker 5 (01:51:08):
bit of a throwback.

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
Hey. If you got friends, can you hook me up?

Speaker 1 (01:51:12):
Hook me. Oh, man. It looks awesome. What a trailer.

Speaker 5 (01:51:21):
What a trailer.

Speaker 1 (01:51:21):
Yeah. My god. Crazy. So sick. It's gonna make a lot
of money.
There's no doubt. I actually sawOh, it's gonna a I I'm really
oh, it's gonna make so much. I'mreally interested to hear what
you think about this. So I wasreading I was just reading in a
Reddit forum or something thatpeep people are talking about

(01:51:44):
it. They're going, oh, you know,it looks amazing.
Someone goes, something's notadding up here. And I'm going,
what's this guy talking about? Idon't know if you heard this, so
this is this is reallyinteresting. He goes, oh,
something's not adding up. Ismell it right here.
And then he goes on to clarifywhat he means. He goes, it's

(01:52:06):
really weird that, like, GTA sixso it's dropped the trailer.
That's you know, you can youcould put that you could assume
that that's like, the obviousassumption would be of, you
know, we didn't get a theypushed the game back, so they're

(01:52:29):
appeasing us with a a trailer toand Yeah. To kind of, you know,
whet our appetites a bit and getus, you know, like, go look.
We're delaying it, but here'sthis.
Right? But he goes, yeah. Theyreleased a trailer, and it's
it's extremely unusual. And,personally, I don't know if this
is unusual because I don'treally play the PlayStation much

(01:52:50):
anymore. But he goes, it's soweird to throw up the wish list
page a year out from this gamegiven it's already gonna be
absolutely massive.
It's it's weird. A whole yearout to more than a year out,
actually, to to throw the wishlist page up. And this person's

(01:53:14):
thoughts was that Rockstar havehave put in place a fake release
date for the game, that they'replaying four d chess after
everything that happened withthe data leak is in, 2022 and
the state the game was in atthat time and everything getting

(01:53:35):
leaked. And they're saying thatcloser to the game, it's gonna
be easy to get access to some ofthese things and leak them.
Could there be merit in throwingup a fake release date for next
year, throwing out the secondtrailer?
As anyone would assume, youknow, they're delayed it.
They'll throw a trailer out.They're appeasing everyone and
wetting the appetites like Imentioned. But, actually, with

(01:54:01):
the wish list, like throwing itup to get people interested and
then because people add it tothe wish list, but then drop it
on, a Black Friday sale or orsome date towards the end of the
year, close to when theyoriginally planned to do it and
go GTA's out. And it's notunheard of.
Like, you know, like, artistsrelease albums out of nowhere.

(01:54:23):
Like, what's to say that a acompany with the with the most
anticipated piece of media inhistory doesn't just, closer to
the date, go GTA six arrivednext week, and all of a sudden,
they've they've bypassed theleakers, and a game just drops
out of nowhere, and we've allbeen played for fools. Like, how
much work do we really thinkthey've got to go on this game?

Speaker 5 (01:54:46):
I think it's I think it's less. Like, I mean, to be
perfectly fair, the game's beenin active development for, what,
six or seven years now.

Speaker 1 (01:54:55):
It's been in active development since since the
since GTA five came out. Theyhad a different team that was
working on Red Dead two. It'sbeen a lot longer than six
years.

Speaker 5 (01:55:04):
A lot longer Even even more so. It is set to be
probably the most complicatedgame in terms of development
with with, like with with themap size potentially being two
or three times the size of GTAfive, all of those NPCs, all of
those interactions, the size of,like, the campaign, the online,

(01:55:24):
and all of the there's there's alot that's going into it. It's
probably gonna be the mostcomplicated game.

Speaker 1 (01:55:30):
Well, it's already

Speaker 5 (01:55:31):
but at this point, they also had their source code
released back in, like, 2122,and that would have dramatically
increased development time.Because having the source code
of your game released beforeit's out, they'd have to
basically almost go back to thedrawing board and fucking recode

(01:55:51):
everything for it to not beavailable to cheap, you know,
cheap makers and and things likethat. They just they'd it it it
probably put another couple ofyears on development, to be
quite honest. Like, anothermaybe year or two at most. But I
think the stealth release, Idon't think that's gonna happen.
They'll do everything they canto avoid the leakers, but I just

(01:56:14):
this is the biggest piece ofmedia that's gonna be released.

Speaker 1 (01:56:17):
He's debunked it here on the podcast. You're hearing
this live. If you're just tuningin to the podcast, the Hidester
has debunked the theory. That'sreally interesting. I mean,
already, it has taken right.
If you count till now like, I'mtalking, like, now, I'm pretty
sure, GTA one in '97 to to02/2008 GTA four, we've already

(01:56:39):
passed that amount of time. Allthose GTA games, and it's taken
just that amount of time fromfive to six in development time.
It's crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:56:49):
Games games have also gotten

Speaker 1 (01:56:50):
more expensive and

Speaker 5 (01:56:51):
more complicated to develop over time. But, like,
something we've gotta keep inmind is because of the success
of GTA five specifically, andalso all the other GTAs that
have come before it, GTA six isthe most anticipated game of all
time. It's probably the mostanticipated piece anticipated
piece of media of all time. It'sgoing to be a cash it has to be

(01:57:16):
a cash cow

Speaker 1 (01:57:16):
for bizarre

Speaker 5 (01:57:17):
because of how much they've put

Speaker 1 (01:57:19):
into this. Astronomical fail.

Speaker 5 (01:57:21):
There's no way they're delaying this. Like,
there's no like, the gamingindustry for the last, like,
year, especially in in 2025, hasbeen centered around revolving
around the release of GTA six.People developers have been
pushing their release dates outso they or not even just giving
release dates in fear of whenGTA six would release. There's

(01:57:45):
no way they're gonna stealthdrop this. The the like, the
monetarial impact that they'llhave, like, building up
anticipation, showing you gottathink of, like, their their
stockholders being like, well,okay.
Well, we need to see investmentin the game. We need to see the
the closer it gets, the moreinvestment they show, the more

(01:58:07):
the stock price will rise, thethe more the the cycles will be
happy with it. Like, there's,yeah, there's no way they're
gonna stealth release this game.If they do, I well, I don't
know. I'll eat my hat.
Like, it it's just I understandto a certain extent the logic
behind it, but I don't think thebiggest piece of media of all

(01:58:28):
time is gonna stealth release. Ithink if it was maybe a smaller
game studio, smaller game, sure,artists can do that kind of
thing because it's just thatwe're we're talking about a game
that's had, like,$8,000,000,000, billion with a
b, put into its development.

Speaker 1 (01:58:46):
It's it's it's Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up.

Speaker 5 (01:58:48):
Oh, sorry. 1,000,000,000.

Speaker 3 (01:58:49):
1

Speaker 1 (01:58:50):
yeah. It's it's something like a billion and a
bit, and that's to do withadvertising. That's to do with
the game. Like, it's multiplefactors. 8 billion's what GTA
five has grossed thus far, and Idon't know if that's in I
imagine that's inclusive ofshark cards and GTA five online
as well, not just the sales ofthe actual physical media
because that would be insane.

(01:59:10):
So so okay. On a scale of 10being the stealth drop is
absolutely happening to a scaleof one, the stealth drop is not
happening. Okay? Where do youthink you sit on this? Is it an

(01:59:33):
absolute one, not a chance?

Speaker 5 (01:59:36):
One. There's no way they do it. I'm telling you
right now, there is no way thatthey do this. It's it's it's
it's too hot. It's it's there'stoo much there's too much
investment in it.
There's like, it's yeah. Theycan't do it. There's no way. It
would it would potentially itfor at least for for a good

(02:00:00):
couple of weeks, it wouldpotentially cripple the gaming
industry to a certain extent, asmall pocket of it at least. It
would overload all of theirservers.
Like, they wouldn't be able tobe prepared for it. People would
be scrambling. Like, it it wouldcause disruption and not in a
good way. I don't think theywanna see that either. There's

(02:00:22):
there's quite a lot of reasonsbehind it, but, like, they've
also gotta think about is thereother networks going to hold for
all of their online componentsand just downloading the game?
Like, PlayStation and Steam andall that have to be prepared for
this to release. They've, like,actively preparing actually
preparing for it at the moment.Like, there's no way that I'm
just I'm saying it's a one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:00:43):
Okay. Easy one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:44):
Okay. I've been frantically typing to see if I
could find anything from anyoneelse because that was just a
stray comment I saw, but I can'tfind any Reddit forums or any
momentum building about thistheory of a stealth release. I
was going to say if I could findsomething more on it. Let's

(02:01:06):
throw a little bet on this.Gamble responsibly at home.
But I'm not prepared to do thatnow because it doesn't look
like, bar that one comment thatI've saw, that there's any
momentum behind it.

Speaker 5 (02:01:21):
The one comment on Reddit.

Speaker 1 (02:01:24):
Here's the deal. Here's the deal, Thunder Nerds.
If I see an ounce of more peoplethrowing up the theory of a fake
05/26/2026 release date to hide,I will get the Hidestar back on
the potty, and the bet will bethis. I'll I'll it'll be if I if

(02:01:46):
I'm confident, I'll say, I'mbacking it, and you'll say,
hard. I'm not backing it to, youknow, release this year or that
it's a Yeah.
You know, a a hard backing thatit's going to release
essentially on 05/26/2026, andit's not a lie. Yeah. The deal
is this. What is the deal? Whatis I've got one

Speaker 5 (02:02:13):
I've got to try down the bet. Set the turds, Bryce.

Speaker 1 (02:02:15):
I've got one. I've got one in mind. I've got one in
mind. Before you come back andset this, the deal is as
follows. The winner, the loser,the loser has to buy the other
person a Steam game of theirchoice no matter the cost.

Speaker 5 (02:02:38):
No matter the cost.

Speaker 1 (02:02:39):
So that doesn't matter if it's like, you know,
Civ seven, the ultimate pack fora hundred and 50, you know, AUD.
That that that's what it is. Thethe bet's not on now. The bet's
not on now. I'm just

Speaker 5 (02:02:55):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:02:55):
Okay. Saying if I get a whiff of momentum anywhere in
the next however long I won'tleave it two two legs. That
wouldn't be fair. But if I get awhiff in the next few weeks or
something that it's buildingmomentum, I'm gonna bring you
back on the potty, and we'reactivating a code red. Alright?

Speaker 5 (02:03:13):
I'll write down.

Speaker 1 (02:03:14):
Done. Not done now. That's you understand the deal,
Thunderbirds? That's apossibility. Sure.
Hi, Stuart. It's been wonderfulhaving you on the potty. Like I
said, we'll get you on soon. I'mI'm sure it'll be soon,

(02:03:35):
especially probably to talkabout the ramifications, whether
good or bad. I'm sure there willbe ramifications of the finale
of season two and maybe a wrapup of how we thought this year
has been thus far and possiblyhow this era has been full stop
given it could be the end of anera.
Is there anything before you gothat you wanna plug?

Speaker 5 (02:03:56):
Yeah. I I have my own Twitch channel at
twitch.tv/thearsewarrior20nine.Also, the arse warrior two zero
nine on Twitter, TikTok,YouTube. Hopefully, making some
more videos for that. Watch meplay through Marathon and
Destiny two as an officialcreator for them.

(02:04:17):
And I also do a D and D stream.The blokes at exhibit a media on
Twitch every Sunday, Sundaynights, from about 08:30
Australian Eastern StandardTime, every once a fortnight,
every fortnight. Come watch usand have a bit of a laugh.

Speaker 1 (02:04:33):
Get behind the warrior on stream. Get behind
him on DND. How good. Alright,mate. We're gonna leave it
there.
It has been wonderful talking toyou. Moving now swiftly on. We
have had Lady Penelope. We'vehad the ice warrior, now it's
time. We've jumped forward intime now, wippee wobby, Tommy
Wimey.
Like I said earlier, I'vewatched the story in the engine.

(02:04:57):
We need to bring the d man in.Let's do it with this.

Speaker 2 (02:05:01):
My fellow citizens of the world.

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
He has arrived.

Speaker 2 (02:05:05):
The eagle has landed.

Speaker 1 (02:05:07):
Cometh the hour. Cometh the d man. And he's here.

Speaker 4 (02:05:13):
Big d. Hello, everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
How are you doing? I'm

Speaker 4 (02:05:17):
great. I am the expert of nothing and the talker
of everything.

Speaker 1 (02:05:21):
How are Did you like did you like your intro?

Speaker 5 (02:05:26):
Love. I

Speaker 4 (02:05:28):
I do actually request that on all entrances I made All
entrances the side of an emptyroom.

Speaker 1 (02:05:36):
That will just

Speaker 4 (02:05:36):
play do what you can.

Speaker 1 (02:05:37):
In the background non diegetically. That's gonna be
your intro from now on wheneveryou jump on the pod.

Speaker 4 (02:05:45):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (02:05:46):
You watched the Thank you. Story in the engine?

Speaker 4 (02:05:50):
I just I just did. Yes. I did.

Speaker 1 (02:05:52):
What did you say?

Speaker 4 (02:05:53):
With the burrito, which I think is the best way to
consume Doctor Who with theburrito in hand. Yeah. Yeah.
What an episode. Can I just say,like, simplicity was not in the
storyline, and I love that?
Like, we we got some layers.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
It was wild, wasn't it? Yeah. Was something

Speaker 4 (02:06:14):
The whole time, I was like, are we in the same story?
And we we were in many stories.I think that was the the case.

Speaker 1 (02:06:24):
Yeah. It was I think I think it's one of the best
shooty gatwa stories of doctorwho.

Speaker 4 (02:06:34):
Easy. For sure.

Speaker 1 (02:06:35):
Unbelievable. Like, really, really cool. Like, I've
and and and something I've neverseen in doctor who.

Speaker 4 (02:06:44):
Never seen. All in general, I felt it was a very,
like, just unique interestingstory of storytelling in
general. I I'm it's it's such aweird thing because every single
episode after every singleepisode this season, I finished
it being like, I feel this. Ifeel that. And after this one,

(02:07:06):
I'm like, what?
There's there's so many bits ofit that I feel different things
for, all in, like, good ways anddifferent versions. But it's
just like, I I haven't felt so,like, complex and webbed in my
emotions as I do with thisepisode.

Speaker 1 (02:07:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:07:24):
And I think it's it's great, though. It's so, like,
it's nice to have some meat onour burger.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
You know? I thought that it was like well, firstly,
wow. The set design for Lagos,Africa was, like, unbelievable.
This was shot in Wales.

Speaker 4 (02:07:51):
Do you not did you not feel like you were there?

Speaker 1 (02:07:53):
It was crazy. Like, I feel like the trailers did not
and and I was this was one I wasreally highly anticipating just
because it was one of the, youknow, few stories with a new
writer coming on board, whichalways gets me excited, but he
just smashed it out of the park.And, like, the the set design

(02:08:16):
was unbelievable. It felt likesuch a lived in world. The did
you read the prequel that cameout, like

Speaker 4 (02:08:24):
I I saw a lot of parts of that. Didn't I'm like,
again, I did a week I got aquick check of it after, but I
haven't gone in-depth of it.

Speaker 1 (02:08:33):
Yep. So the so the prequel was was written by the
writer. I've got I'm gonna findhis name because we have to
shout him out. Sure. And hewrote a prequel to the story,
which is almost first meetingwith the doctor Mhmm.
When he puts that fire out, andthey they did some really nice
illustrations, which they usedin the episode at the start.

(02:08:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:08:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:08:56):
Yeah. And and and, essentially, it's just the
written trans like, the thewritten story of that, and we
get a little bit of it at thestart of this this story, the
story in the engine. God, howmany times are we gonna say the
word story in in in thispodcast? Because, wow, the set
design was unbelievable. Ididn't know what what was gonna

(02:09:16):
happen at any given moment wherethe story was going.

Speaker 4 (02:09:20):
Can I say something? What I think was really
interesting about this episode,with a lot of stories, you kinda
have an idea with what's gonnahappen. Like with the well that
we saw, we had an idea that thedoctor would get out or, you
know, move on. Yeah. But onething I found really interesting
with this story, and we'llprobably talk about it a bit aft
bit later, but how the how youyourself as a viewer weren't

(02:09:45):
sure what was gonna happen.
And you can kinda see the doctornot know what was gonna happen.
Because the doctor always kindaknows where to go, but the
doctor is really trying tofigure it out. And I felt like
so was us. And there was, like,a really good take on how we can
kinda get to what what happenedin the story. So it was like a a

(02:10:07):
good journey for all of us.

Speaker 1 (02:10:10):
Yeah. I I agree. I think seeing I mean, I can't get
over it. Just seeing doctor whoin Africa is cool. Like So cool.
Like, it's just that that's whatI wanna wanna see the TARDIS go
more places. It's nice to seethe TARDIS. You know, it's
anywhere in time and space, notanywhere in London, England.

(02:10:33):
Yeah. Do do you know what Imean?

Speaker 4 (02:10:35):
And what was so nice is how the doctor's story is
integrated a part of thecommunity, and it wasn't because
you you would think, oh, it'sfirst time landing there. But
he's like, no. He's been there.He's lived there. The like, he
his connection has been made inin that community.
And it's one of those thingswhere it's like, of course,
would be. Why wouldn't he be?

Speaker 1 (02:10:56):
A %, like, to see we get that, you know, here and
there, we get the thing of, oh,I've been here before. But here
Yeah. The writer has andRussell, I think, talked about
this in the doctor magazine orone of the previews he did for
the season. He said that thewriter and his name I've got it
here. It's Inua Ellems.
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncingthat right. I n u a, Inua,

(02:11:20):
Elams, e, double l, a m s is thesurname. And saying that, like,
he'd written a mythology here

Speaker 4 (02:11:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:11:29):
For the doctor. And and and you get the feeling.
Yeah. This this barbershop, thedoctor just what he he's just
gelled with it. He's vied withit, and now he kinda comes here
every so often.
Maybe gets a haircut. Like,maybe Tom Baker came here with
his frock with his curls, andYeah. I kinda like that that
that's just a thing that he'sand he and he sits and tells

(02:11:50):
then they all tell stories andwhatnot, and then that gets
taken to the nth degree here.But I like that that there's a
bit of history here with thisdoctor and that he's not tied.
This is the other thing I like.
Russell was saying having thisnew voice come on, he wasn't
going, oh, has the doctor donethis in, you know, season
seventeen episode two? Like, hewas like, he just came in as a

(02:12:12):
he he loves the show, thiswriter. Big fan. I think I feel
like you can tell that when youwatch this. But Yeah.
But Yeah. Like, he said he justcame in and went, I'm just gonna
do what I what I wanna do withdoctor who, and I and I love it.
The TARDIS there putting out afire, like, the the idea that he
just, that's the doctor. That'sthe doctor.

Speaker 4 (02:12:32):
Yeah. It's and and then he you could so get so
clearly the this world was livedin, was was detailed. There's
layers to this that that wasn'tspoken, but you could feel it.

Speaker 2 (02:12:45):
It it come

Speaker 4 (02:12:46):
it came across. And what was so nice was that it was
also a world that was so livedin but different. So it's like
the same Doctor Who world, butit was a it was a different view
that was in world.

Speaker 1 (02:13:00):
Was through a different perspective. It was
like watching it and going I hadto stop my there was actually a
few and I I'm gonna have tomaybe more so than other
episodes this season, I have towatch this again and soon Yeah.
Because there were parts that Iwas having trouble taking in
because I was I kept gettingtaken out of it by how good the

(02:13:22):
set design was and just howlived in everything felt that
I'm going it feels like its ownstory or own it feels like it's
outside of doctor who in a way.Like Totally.

Speaker 4 (02:13:35):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (02:13:35):
Do you

Speaker 5 (02:13:36):
know what

Speaker 1 (02:13:36):
I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:13:36):
It it it feels it's it feels like a like a meta a
meta take of storytelling as awhole, but in the same time, in
its meta ness, it also feelsvery inside of the doctor who
universe. That makes sense.Yeah. Does. It's very

Speaker 1 (02:13:52):
I loved how the

Speaker 4 (02:13:53):
intro the fabric.

Speaker 1 (02:13:55):
I loved how the intro, like, appeared on the
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:14:01):
Love. I I love this integration. This, like, and we
we saw it again with the back inthe one with the the third
episode of the first season.

Speaker 1 (02:14:17):
What? Boom?

Speaker 4 (02:14:21):
Oh, the second episode. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (02:14:23):
The Jinx. All all the the the devil's chord.

Speaker 4 (02:14:27):
Devil's chord. We we saw that with the devil's chord
where we we heard the intromusic play it in, and it just
like oh, it's such a smalldetail, but it's stuff like that
that just makes you so excitedfor the story, for the show.
You're like, you know, doctorwho's in session, sit down, and
let's enjoy the ride. You know?

Speaker 1 (02:14:46):
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. A % agree with you. I think that, I
don't know, this this secondseason we'll we'll go further
into the the story in the engineshortly, but this second season,
I wasn't a big fan of the robotrevolution, personally.
It wasn't my type of doctor thatI love. Like, I get what they

(02:15:09):
were going for. Just felt likeit was aimed a little bit at
more so than other stories atyounger audiences, which Yeah.
It's not it's not out ofcharacter for Russell to do that
with first episodes in hisseasons, but the rest of this
season, Lux, tick from me. Bigtick.

(02:15:29):
The Well, like, it's so good.Lucky day, probably more, like,
upfront with what it's trying todo, less subtlety, but I still
liked it a lot. And then this,oh, man. Like, this is a a real
they're they're real they've hitat least three really good

(02:15:52):
Doctor Who stories. The Wellsare classic to me.
Luxe is very good, and this isfresh and really exciting. This
is what I wanted week in andweek out for season one. And I
feel like

Speaker 4 (02:16:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:16:08):
Man, I was sitting there watching Shootie Gatber in
this episode going, that hairthat he has at the end and even
halfway through, like thebraids, I'm going, man, you
could throw these entire get upin this episode as his normal
Yeah. Outfit, and I would be,like, oh my god. He looks sick.

Speaker 4 (02:16:25):
It is just I was genuinely so, like, incredible
and beautiful and, like, the theflow of how they use the story
and how he the, you know, he thehair the hair became a
character. You know? The hairwas Yeah. That was awesome. Part
of the solution.

(02:16:46):
And it was just like this thingwhere every part of the team
that worked on it, you can tellevery part of the crew just
there's a lot of passion in inthis project, and it was
constructed so well. And and itpaid off, it made it so yummy.

Speaker 1 (02:17:06):
No. It's a yummy. Yummy. Talk to me. How about so
there were rumors that thefugitive doctor would show up in
this story.
Gagged. Wow. Yeah. That was areally and and it doesn't

(02:17:28):
overstay its welcome at all. Itjust oh my god.
Like, the way that and I have towatch it again, Thunder Nerds,
but the way she kind of just andas soon as I did that shot where
it went behind the woman's head,went, oh my god. It's gonna be
the future. It's true. Therumors are true. Yeah.

(02:17:50):
And then to see the fugitivedoctor standing there and just
saying something like, I wasbusy that day with my own story.
I couldn't take you. Yeah. Like,I was like, damn. Like, that is
a harsh like, because she's aslave, wasn't she?
Like, that wasn't she a slavewhen she was saying that the the
doctor was gonna come back forher, like, bitch, she never did.

(02:18:12):
And she's like, well, I had astory of my own. Like, I'm I was
busy that day. And it was like,woah. Like, okay.

Speaker 4 (02:18:21):
It was Like really insane. And it was just a
really, like, well paced timingfor that where you really got to
feel what that would feel like.And, again, it's another it's
another case of a companionbeing left behind by the doctor,
but what would that mean foryou? You know, what would a

(02:18:41):
person be left by the doctor inthose type of in those
situations?

Speaker 1 (02:18:47):
The future doctor showing up so briefly. I mean, I
did Yeah. I did after thatwonder, oh, no. Is she gonna be
more of this? Like, is not tosay because I actually like the
view, but I'm I'm also sayingYep.
Where are we going now withthis? And I thought limiting it
to that, it left me going, Iwant more. And that's a good

(02:19:12):
thing. Yeah. Knowing that you'releft thinking I want more of
that and not, oh, I like thatfirst part.
And then when she showed upsecond, third, fourth time, I
was a bit like it kinda draggedon and took away from where the
story was going. It doesn't itdoes not ruin the momentum of
the story that it's telling.It's just a brief moment to

(02:19:34):
throw in the other black doctorin an like, if I'm not mistaken,
all people of color episode ofdoctor who that's never been
done before. But you don't thinkabout that when you're watching
it. That's what is fucking greatabout it.
You don't think about that. Thestory is so good on its own

(02:19:55):
terms. It's so fresh, sooriginal. The design of the kind
of tree mushroom thing openingat the end looked freaking
awesome. The doctors.
Oh. Oh.

Speaker 4 (02:20:05):
Like It's it was and and and what you know what it
was? It was like when they hadthe Fugitive Doctor at the start
and oh, like, in that in thatshot and then going back to
Judy's doctor, you really got asense of just, like it was just
given a scale. You know? It wasjust given a scale of this life
that this alien has lived, thiskind of bringing it back down to

(02:20:31):
earth metaphorically where

Speaker 5 (02:20:32):
it is.

Speaker 1 (02:20:32):
Like the

Speaker 4 (02:20:34):
But so

Speaker 1 (02:20:35):
good. So good. The the the way that I don't know.
There was something I likedRogue last year. I didn't love
Rogue, though.
That story, the Bridgerton typestory. I liked that it was new
writers coming in. I didn't lovethe story. I I I didn't love you
know? I don't know.
I don't know what it is for mewhere, like, you can throw up

(02:20:57):
the doctors as holograms in thatstory, and they throw the
Richard E. Grant doctor in thatstory to kinda go, like, oh,
like, is he part of the canon?Is he not?

Speaker 4 (02:21:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:21:09):
I don't know what it is that for me, I go, oh, yeah.
That's okay. That's that's cool.I don't I don't and then they do
something here, and I go becausemaybe it's because it feels more
like it's part of the storybecause it's part of the
resolution. The doctor goes,I've lived all these lives.
It's it's linked to me now. I'mI'm born. I die. I'm born. I

(02:21:35):
die.
And then you go, oh, shit. It'sthe stories of all doctors
coming through, and he's kindagoing, I've lived all these
lives. This is me. And it'slike, maybe that's why it
resonated with me more. Like, itgave me goosebumps when I
watched it.
I was like, oh my god. And theand the the choices of shots
they used for the other doctorswere cool as well. Loved hearing

(02:21:56):
it. It was good. Like, oh, itwas just yeah.
It was so sick. It was so sick.

Speaker 4 (02:22:02):
And it was so good because it was Given that scale
of of all that because we we'vehad a lot of montage of of other
doctors, and I think it what'sreally important is picking the
right scenes, and I think theypicked. Well, again, I think
this is I I don't know who picksthe scenes, but if the writer
picked the scenes, I you justknow that he big fan. You know?
He's just I could just tell thatthere's

Speaker 1 (02:22:23):
could tell. You could tell.

Speaker 4 (02:22:25):
Some Yeah. You could you could tell there's some
consideration.

Speaker 1 (02:22:28):
For it. Doctor in color there as well. You're
like, yes. Give me more first. Idon't know if they did a second
doctor in color.
I think they might have been,like, seeing the the the black
and white doctors in a couple offleeting moments of color. I'll
never tire of that. I love that.The Anasi, Loki, all these kind
of, you know, I'm this, I'mthat, and you go for a bit,

(02:22:49):
you're like, is this a god?Another one of the pantheon
gods?
Like, is it trickster from SarahJane Avengers? Like, what's and
then, oh, no. It's just no. It'snone of that, actually. Like,
he's a copier, aren't you?
Like, there was so many goodseething fifteenth doctor

(02:23:10):
moments. The moments where eventhe moment where he he goes,
Omo, this was my home. This wasa home for me. And that that
resonates with this particulardoctor in ways that might not
work with other doctors becausehe's, you know, part of that
culture, shooty Gatwa as well.It just feels like there's more

(02:23:32):
there's something personal herewhen he says that this here he
feels like he says when he getsout of the Tardis, there's other
places he might land and there'ssegregation like we've seen.
Here, this is a sanctuary forthis doctor in particular. Mhmm.
It's a sanctuary for all thedoctors, it sounds like, but for

(02:23:52):
him in particular, this is ahome he can walk through. No one
looks at him differently, andand he kinda goes, you don't
talk to me. You broke that.
And that's a nice moment forthis doctor. He there's also a
crying moment, but it theyactually and I'm not sure if
maybe someone was editing thisseason going, shit. He cries a

(02:24:12):
lot, doesn't he? And they'vethen cut it so that it's a shot
where you don't actually see it.He kinda seem getting a bit
emotional, but they cut to adifferent shot, and you don't
actually see any of the cryingin this one.
I'm not sure if they've donethat on purpose, but I don't
know. It just worked. A lot ofthis story really worked for me.

Speaker 4 (02:24:34):
And I think because what it is, it was a for the
doctor, it was never about doingyour hair. It's like Belinda was
saying. It's like, you don't youdo any lot of otitis? It's like,
it's not about the hair. It'sabout the people, and it's about
a connection.
And if it we don't often reallysee the doctor go to one place
to do something throughout,like, history. He's always

(02:24:56):
traveling, going somewhere inthe world.

Speaker 1 (02:24:58):
Mhmm.

Speaker 4 (02:24:58):
But it's like the fact that he could have this
this home. But then having thathome exploited and attacked in a
sense and then kind of tarnishedby the events that happened.
It's it's it's hard. I think youcould see the pain that he had
where it's like this little safespace is affected. Yep.

(02:25:21):
And it's that's rough. But it'soh, it's such good story
writing.

Speaker 1 (02:25:25):
Oh, it was another example this season that I don't
know. It's just it's becomingexample upon example. I mean,
especially with the well, Ithink, but what but but, you
know, Lux to an extent. Like,you know, it's you know, you got
the fans in Lux. You've got themother that he kinda sits and

(02:25:47):
talks with.
That's a great scene. There's alot of characters in in Lucky
Day. Conrad, just a prick, likeRuby fleshing her out, the
doctor a little bit more ofBelinda, Shirley Mhmm. Kate.
There's a there's a fewcharacters to get through in
that story, and and and the wellhad a had a, well, an ensemble
of 13.

(02:26:08):
Mhmm. Right? But I don't know.Or or 14 if you count them. The
woman that was already there onthe base, but there's a lot of
characters in that story yet.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
Was it with the well, if you count the entity, it's
15.

Speaker 1 (02:26:26):
15. 15. Yeah. You're right. So there's a lot of
characters to balance and getthrough and give screen time to.
This one has less than that, butit's still got a few characters.
And somehow, again, anotherexample in this season, in this
second season of RTD two whereMhmm. The pacing is perfect for

(02:26:53):
a, you know, forty five ish,fifty minute episode of Doctor
Who. And two, they flesh out thecharacters. Yeah.
Again, like like, it doesn'tfeel like anyone's wasted.
Somehow, you can have these allthese characters, but they all
feel like they're doingsomething or contributing
something to the story. That isimpressive because it it it it

(02:27:19):
does prove that you can do fortyfive type minute doctor who
today, like it was done when RCDrevived it initially. It still
works. He's he is really good athaving things paced out very,
very well.
I don't know if you know this,but the writer of this story, he
wrote an award winning play thatwas set in a barbershop as well

(02:27:45):
with a lot of the same cast fromthe play that he cast in this
episode. And I feel like theperformances in this are very
emotionally charged. I thinkthat, like Yeah. You know, it's
interesting how at the start,it's almost like a Doctor. Light
story.
And you think, oh, is this gonnabe Doctor. Light for oh, sorry.
Not doctor light. Companionlight for a lot of those start,

(02:28:06):
you go, oh, is this gonna be butthen, no, she seamlessly comes
back into fold and into thestory, and it all just works as
a confined doctor who story. Ilike that he's taken clearly,
barbershop thing is somethingfrom this writer's childhood
that he remembers growing up,like being in his dad's

(02:28:27):
barbershop or something likethat.
That's what I'm guessing. Andthen he's or or maybe being not
sure even if it was his father,but maybe just being around
barber shops and hearing storiesor the way they tell stories in
their culture, like, to write aplay about it, get great
recognition for it. It wasGatler who separately came to
Russell, who was already eyeingthis rider and said to the team,

(02:28:49):
let's get him. Gatwa came in oneday and said, oh, I've watched
this play. You should look atgetting this rider throughout
for this for doctor who, andthey went, we've already got
him.
He's coming in. Oh. And, like,he the stars align when
something like that happens, andthe way that he's integrated
because when I heard that he'ddone the play, I wondered, is he
just gonna, like, redo if it'sin a barber shop, like, you

(02:29:13):
yeah. Is he going to dosomething really similar to the
to the play, but just, you know,change something here or there
to make it doctor who? This feltlike it was a similar setting
that resonates with him, buthe's had an idea festering and
fermenting of how he wanted todo it for doctor who.

(02:29:33):
And this doesn't I mean, I'm I'msure if you watch the play,
there wouldn't be manysimilarities, but, you know,
maybe most of the same cast andit being set in the barbershop,
but the way he does it here,chef's kiss.

Speaker 4 (02:29:46):
So, like, I think it really Keith and that he did and
did so well was that he made thebarbershop a part like, a
character in itself, and he putit into it became an important
part of the whole story. But itwas so, like, nice to have that
kind of grounding. Becauseanother thing with doctor Who is

(02:30:07):
that some stories that we haveseen, they can get lost in the
grandiose of everything and,like, going to all the different
places at different times. Andsometimes it's great, sometimes
it's too much. But the greatthing about this at the end of
the day, it was people talking,in this barbershop of their
stories.
And, like, that is just theythey did it well. So really

(02:30:35):
interesting interesting stuffthat came from it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:38):
Here is what I want you to do Mhmm. Before we wrap
this podcast up. Mhmm. Where weare now now the let let's let's
note this. We're talking about15 before.
This is the fifteenth doctor'sfifteenth story. This

Speaker 4 (02:30:59):
story. Okay?

Speaker 1 (02:31:01):
Yeah. 15 for 15. From the stories we've seen thus far
you don't have to know the titleif you don't know the titles. I
know you're not as as wildlykind of fanatic as me, but with
what you know of the storiesyou've seen from the Gatwick era

(02:31:22):
thus far, your top three fromthree to one. Mhmm.
Lock them in now, and I'll countyou in, and we'll get number
three. Can you have a quickthing? Tick tock.

Speaker 4 (02:31:36):
Yeah. Tick tock. Tick Tick tock. I have an idea.

Speaker 1 (02:31:39):
Okay. Number three.

Speaker 4 (02:31:45):
This episode. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 (02:31:48):
Oh, shit. Yeah. Turn that off. Yeah. Sorry.
So wait. Wait. So wait. So thisthis is number three. I think
you're not far off, actually.
I think it might be up there forme. So okay. So we're saying the
story in the engine coming inred hot number three for you.
Number 222.

Speaker 4 (02:32:10):
The well.

Speaker 1 (02:32:12):
The well is number two? That is really interesting.
Okay. I I'm not gonna lie. Yeah.
No. I think I think that wouldbe in my top three. I think that
could even push for one, but I'mnot sure. Okay. And here we go.
Yeah. Number one.

Speaker 4 (02:32:31):
Thought and Bubble.

Speaker 1 (02:32:31):
I knew you were gonna say that.

Speaker 3 (02:32:33):
Knew you were gonna say that.

Speaker 4 (02:32:35):
You knew it. Totally. Firstly, I for everyone
listening, I watch episodes onceor twice, and I don't watch them
much, but I do I really shouldwatch them many times. But I
find that the ones that kind ofgive the life the impact sticks
with me. And those three are theones that had I have little

(02:32:57):
takeaway messages and takeawaybites from them that I think are
just I think about all still tothis day.
Like, the other day, I was inthe shops, I was thinking I was
like, is it Entity on on thespaceship or isn't it? What if
what did they see? And with thedoughnut bubble, it's just
there's so much to talk aboutthere. Yeah. But with this one,

(02:33:19):
while I was watching it, I wasjust feel like I was just I just
kept thinking about stuff, and Iknow that that's gonna, like, go
away with me and be stuck in mybrain and be thinking about all
the things that I need to thinkabout with this.

Speaker 1 (02:33:37):
I love the doctor who is, like, leaving that
impression again. Sounds likefor yourself. It's doing the
same for me, like, where I'mthinking about it days after
watching it and going, what wasthat? What about hang on a
second. That I love that.
I love that that's coming backfor me. And maybe when we do dot
and bubble on the as aretrospective on this podcast,

(02:34:00):
I'll get you into to talk aboutthat episode. Well, what you can
break that one down with mebecause as soon as you I
actually thought you'd say thewell at number one, and then
when you said two, I went, whatother oh, dot and bubble. I just
knew straight away that wouldhave to be what

Speaker 5 (02:34:16):
you honestly.

Speaker 1 (02:34:18):
And It's a good story. It's good.

Speaker 4 (02:34:21):
Let me be it's just it's so good. And, like, the
reason why that's one for me isbecause it's so I don't think
I've seen a story like thatbefore. Yep. And it is doctor
who is the show for that story,and it's a show to take a lot of
common things that we see whenit comes to, like, social media,

(02:34:42):
when it comes to the mindsetsthat the show covers, and then
it really just, like, dives intoit. And it just gets into it,
and the it's a really good rushof writing where you have these
connections of people that yousee for literally minutes, and
they die, but that impact lastswith you.

(02:35:03):
It's good. It's meaty. It'sjuicy. I love it. And this
episode honestly had so much ofthe kind of depth of characters
that I love.
You know? Give me a characterthat we, you know, want to learn
more about. Give me a characterwith a story that kind of ropes
you in for more content that youcan kind of bring your own

(02:35:28):
imagination. Because the thingis a lot of times is that as a
viewer, you don't wannanecessarily know everything
about the the the characters oreven the world. Sometimes you
want just enough to be like,what else is there?
And have your owninterpretation. Yep. Because
there are sometimes we getcharacters where we get too
much. So I think havingcharacters in a short amount of

(02:35:54):
time with as much background cangive a really good impression
for myself.

Speaker 1 (02:36:02):
It's a story that I mean, we know that the doctor
has been here in otherincarnations. This story can
only have worked as well as itdid with the fifteenth doctor.
And Yeah. It's gonna be one thatI think we look back and go,
yeah, that's that's one of hisdefining doctor stories. You you

(02:36:24):
can't take the doctor out ofthat story because that story is
made for that doctor.

Speaker 4 (02:36:31):
Yeah. And what is so what I loved about it as well is
that it wasn't a lot of timeswhere the doctor was saving
people. It was kind of thepeople working with the doctor
to save each other. Yep. And itfelt like if everyone in that
barbershop had an equal hour andplay to get them to the the

(02:36:51):
solution.
Well, in other times, you'relike, the doctor's got this.
Everyone else just sit back andrelax type thing. But this one,
it was like, no. If we all needto work together. So which is
yeah.
Great.

Speaker 1 (02:37:07):
So good. No. I it's it feel I mean, I really hope
the further we get into thisthat word-of-mouth spreads,
people talk, people watch it.Doctor Who is firing again with
some really strong ideas andsome strong stories and some
strong execution. We want thatseason three.

(02:37:27):
Russell said that he's got aboutseason four to five mapped out
with ideas of where we go. Wow.We need it. Anyway Wow. Let's
wrap it up there, D man.
It's been really, really awesomehaving you on. Let's do it again
really soon because, well, we'vegot the season finale coming up

(02:37:47):
and the Interstellar SongContest next week. Rylan's
making an appearance on there.We've got some tea going on, so
that one's gonna be quite big.I'm sure that I'll see you
before then, but, yeah, let'slet's do it.
Let's let's get back on the pod,and let's rock and roll when we
get to that finale and have areal chat about what we think by

(02:38:07):
the end of it.

Speaker 4 (02:38:09):
Sounds good. Looks very exciting. It looks very
doctor y, and I love that everyweek now, we have something to
look forward to to watch.

Speaker 1 (02:38:18):
I know. Just a few more weeks. No. No. It's only,
like, three more weeks.
But, anyway, look. While we'vegot it, enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (02:38:26):
Enjoy the ride.

Speaker 1 (02:38:27):
Enjoy the ride. For sure. Man.

Speaker 4 (02:38:29):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (02:38:30):
Throw the nerds out. Catch you later.

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