August 22, 2025 • 11 mins
What makes a leader truly strong? It isn’t about avoiding stress or building walls to stay “safe.” Real leadership grows through challenge, tension, and even failure. In this episode of Tim Stating the Obvious, I unpack the concept of antifragility—a mindset where individuals and organizations don’t just survive adversity but actually get stronger because of it.
Fragile leaders shatter under pressure. Robust leaders can take a hit but never improve. Antifragile leaders? They rise above setbacks, using stress as fuel to adapt, innovate, and evolve. From muscles built through resistance training to organizations sharpened by constructive pushback, antifragility is the life skill today’s leaders can’t afford to ignore.
We’ll talk about why overprotection creates fragile people and fragile cultures, how discomfort is the best teacher, and the practical steps leaders can take to build resilience, adaptability, and long-term strength. If you’re tired of seeing people crumble at the first sign of criticism, this episode will give you the tools to lead differently.
Connect with Tim:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
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Tiktok: @timstatingtheobvious
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Staton (00:01):
Hey, and welcome to another episode in today's book review.
We're going to be talking about Antifragile, Things that Gain from Disorder by Nicholas Nassim Taleb.
Life has never been neat and tidy.
It's messy, unpredictable, and often unfair. But here's the truth.
If you lean into the mess instead of running from it, you actually get stronger.
(00:24):
That's what being antifragile is all about.
And it's a lesson leaders, and frankly, all of us, need now more than ever.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's to church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
(00:48):
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (00:59):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark trademark, manufacturer otherwise
does not necessarily constitute an apply to endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show, are my own, expressed and do not necessarily state
or reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (01:09):
Taleb's big idea is simple.
Fragile things break under pressure. Robust things hold steady.
But antifragile things actually grow from stress. Think about your muscles.
I like to work out and going to the gym, it keeps me healthy.
Without the stress of resistance, your muscles will weaken.
With pressure and recovery, you get stronger. Leadership is no different.
(01:34):
The problems we face today is that too many people, especially in the leadership pipelines,
are conditioned to avoid stress, avoid risk and avoid discomfort.
Even staffs can't even handle discomfort or stress.
We've created a culture of fragility where one harsh word, one failure, or even one unmet expectation feels like a collapse.
(01:58):
Taleb reminds us that it's disorder setbacks and friction that create resilience and a long term strength.
And antifragile really isn't resilience, it's more than that.
So think, I think of Gumby, right?
It's bendable, it's flexible, it's pliable, it's moldable.
It doesn't break under pressure.
You don't have to handle it delicately.
(02:19):
And the workplace is full of fragile people.
And the workplace leadership is full of fragile leaders where if you question anything or you
push back a little bit, they break.
They can't handle the pressure.
So Taleb frames it like this. Fragile as a glass.
One drop and it shatters. Most.
(02:40):
Like some of the people, robust is like A rock, it takes a hit, but it doesn't grow. Right?
So being fragile, you shatter.
If you're robust, you can take a hit, but it doesn't grow from that.
Antifragile is like a forest after a fire. It comes back stronger.
I think of the times where I was, you know, grew up in the south and, you know, in North Carolina
(03:02):
and Georgia, you do these things called control burn in the forest where you burn off the underbrush.
And yes, there, there is a fire, but life comes back stronger.
Now think about today's workplace.
We've got leaders who crack under criticism, fragile leaders who can take a hit but never adapt. They're robust.
And leaders who use setbacks to grow themselves and their teams, creating antifragile teams and antifragile people.
(03:30):
Who do you want to follow? I offer up.
We need more antifragile teams and antifragile leaders.
We need people who can grow from stress, who can grow from setbacks.
And in his book, he brings up a great point, which I love, where he talks about where if you
ingest a little bit of poison, not enough to kill you, but enough to introduce to your body,
(03:52):
so your body goes, oh, this is bad for me.
I know how to fight this off and attack it in small doses.
You can build up an immunity.
That's like kind of how vaccines are made.
And I don't want to get into the whole vaccine thing, but it's been proven that a little bit
of vaccine will make you more robust, will make you even stronger.
(04:12):
If you get introduced to a certain bacteria or a certain virus, your body knows how to attack
and handle it, you become stronger.
You're not as fragile as you were, but you're not.
But you're more than robust.
You can thrive and survive when introduced.
But Taleb also warns us systems that over protect and eliminate risk, like being a helicopter
(04:32):
parent or corporate environments that shield people from accountability.
That kind of coddling doesn't create resilience, it breeds fragility.
And that's what we're seeing.
You know, in my opinion, teams, employees, and even entire organizations that can't handle the
unexpected because they're never been tested.
(04:52):
And we saw this through the pandemic where something bad happened.
People thought it was a worst case scenario.
And in the book, he talks about this where people anticipate the worst case scenario, but the
worst case scenario was actually worse than the worst case scenario that we could actually predict.
Because we like to think that the tallest mountain that we can see and we know of is the tallest mountain that ever was.
(05:15):
Until we find the tallest mountain that ever was and it's bigger than the one that we ever saw.
Much like things of unpredictability and things that we come into contact with.
So with that in mind, we need to be people who can be antifragile, where you have that stress,
but you can still grow from it.
We don't need to over parent our kids, Let them fail.
It's okay to get a B or a C or even a D. And guess what?
(05:39):
If your kid forgets to bring their lunch, well, maybe they should go hungry for a little bit.
Your school won't let them go hungry because they'll give them food anyway, but they'll feel the stressor of it. Right.
Maybe we should let people do a task and not complete it on time where it doesn't affect the whole organization.
But it's just a minor setback and they learn from that and they can grow through the stressors of that.
(06:01):
That we're not shielding people from accountability, that they're growing in it.
You know, there's this meme out there that says, you know, I don't know why the 70s and 80s
kids look so good when they get older.
Maybe there was something in the water.
Yeah, maybe there was something from drinking from the garden hose outside that made us more
resilient than drinking sterilized bottled water.
(06:22):
I'm just saying I don't think there could be a correlation to that.
I know that I've had tons of vaccines being in the military. Guess what?
I'm alive and I'm kicking today and I'm pretty strong and my immunity is pretty good.
But we need to do that with everything.
We need to introduce a little bit of hostility.
Not all the time and not in a negative way, but we need to make it so that people stress and grow.
(06:45):
So the strengths of antifragile is that it forces us to rethink how we view stress and disorder.
As leaders, we can't just protect our teams from every challenge.
We need to expose them to manageable stress so that they can grow.
But we don't need to overdo it, because in any organism, if you overdo it, it dies off. Right.
(07:07):
How many civilizations don't exist today because they died off?
Well, that's because it became overstressed and they couldn't do what they needed to do in order to survive.
So my critique of this book is that sometimes he wonders and it gets a little bit wordy, but
I think everything is still applicable.
It's a great read and I really like how he doesn't just hand us neat lessons and bullet points
(07:28):
so you can just walk away from it.
You have to really think about this book and it took me a while to write this book review because
it is books within a books as he said.
And it's kind of all over the place, but it's still really getting into the definitions of what he's really talking about.
It's more than just resiliency.
It's more than just robustness.
It's thriving Being antifragile, not Fragile So who is this book for?
(07:50):
I would say if you're a leader, an entrepreneur, or anyone who is tired of living in a bubble
wrapped world like me, if you're looking to toughen up, to stop being fragile, you're looking
to help people grow stronger instead of weaker with every setback.
This is a required reading for you.
I'm just saying it opened up my eyes to a lot of things and I think it's a good read.
(08:11):
There's a lot of applicable things to leaders and organizations to anywhere, whether it's at
your home, your church, or at work. This book is applicable.
And the obvious takeaway is fragility is everywhere today.
But fragility doesn't build leaders.
If you want to lead effectively, you've got to create antifragile systems for yourself and for your people.
(08:33):
That means embracing challenge, using failure as a feedback mechanism instead of a setback,
and teaching your teams that discomfort is a teacher, not an enemy.
In fact, comfort breeds complacency and complacency kills you no matter what, whether it kills
your work, your business, your home, or even yourself because you're not as aware. Comfort is the enemy.
(08:55):
And if we don't, we'll keep raising leaders who fold under pressure instead of rising through
it and going through it.
And so I think that if you have a reading list, this book should definitely be on it because
it's going to help us create a generation of leaders that are antifragile instead of fragile.
So stop running from chaos and start growing through it.
(09:19):
So my challenge to you today is let's develop anti fragility.
So one thing that you can do is is expose yourself to a small controlled challenge that pushes
you out of your comfort zone.
Like trying a new skill or having a tough conversation and then letting us know how that went for you. How was the discomfort?
How did you handle it?
(09:40):
Did you grow through it? What happened?
Was it as the outcome as scary as you thought it was?
I doubt it would be.
This builds robustness and resilience and thriveness by teaching us to adapt and grow from stress,
much like Taleb's idea of the system gaining from disorder.
As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
(10:00):
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, and hit all
the bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode,
you'll be alerted, please go ahead and do all that before you go.
(10:20):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topic.
Topics that we've talked about here today but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. State of the Obvious
(10:53):
Sam.
Hey, and welcome to another episode in today's book review.
We're going to be talking about Antifragile, Things that Gain from Disorder by Nicholas Nassim Taleb.
Life has never been neat and tidy.
It's messy, unpredictable, and often unfair. But here's the truth.
If you lean into the mess instead of running from it, you actually get stronger.
(00:24):
That's what being antifragile is all about.
And it's a lesson leaders, and frankly, all of us, need now more than ever.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's to church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
(00:48):
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (00:59):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark trademark, manufacturer otherwise
does not necessarily constitute an apply to endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show, are my own, expressed and do not necessarily state
or reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (01:09):
Taleb's big idea is simple.
Fragile things break under pressure. Robust things hold steady.
But antifragile things actually grow from stress. Think about your muscles.
I like to work out and going to the gym, it keeps me healthy.
Without the stress of resistance, your muscles will weaken.
With pressure and recovery, you get stronger. Leadership is no different.
(01:34):
The problems we face today is that too many people, especially in the leadership pipelines,
are conditioned to avoid stress, avoid risk and avoid discomfort.
Even staffs can't even handle discomfort or stress.
We've created a culture of fragility where one harsh word, one failure, or even one unmet expectation feels like a collapse.
(01:58):
Taleb reminds us that it's disorder setbacks and friction that create resilience and a long term strength.
And antifragile really isn't resilience, it's more than that.
So think, I think of Gumby, right?
It's bendable, it's flexible, it's pliable, it's moldable.
It doesn't break under pressure.
You don't have to handle it delicately.
(02:19):
And the workplace is full of fragile people.
And the workplace leadership is full of fragile leaders where if you question anything or you
push back a little bit, they break.
They can't handle the pressure.
So Taleb frames it like this. Fragile as a glass.
One drop and it shatters. Most.
(02:40):
Like some of the people, robust is like A rock, it takes a hit, but it doesn't grow. Right?
So being fragile, you shatter.
If you're robust, you can take a hit, but it doesn't grow from that.
Antifragile is like a forest after a fire. It comes back stronger.
I think of the times where I was, you know, grew up in the south and, you know, in North Carolina
(03:02):
and Georgia, you do these things called control burn in the forest where you burn off the underbrush.
And yes, there, there is a fire, but life comes back stronger.
Now think about today's workplace.
We've got leaders who crack under criticism, fragile leaders who can take a hit but never adapt. They're robust.
And leaders who use setbacks to grow themselves and their teams, creating antifragile teams and antifragile people.
(03:30):
Who do you want to follow? I offer up.
We need more antifragile teams and antifragile leaders.
We need people who can grow from stress, who can grow from setbacks.
And in his book, he brings up a great point, which I love, where he talks about where if you
ingest a little bit of poison, not enough to kill you, but enough to introduce to your body,
(03:52):
so your body goes, oh, this is bad for me.
I know how to fight this off and attack it in small doses.
You can build up an immunity.
That's like kind of how vaccines are made.
And I don't want to get into the whole vaccine thing, but it's been proven that a little bit
of vaccine will make you more robust, will make you even stronger.
(04:12):
If you get introduced to a certain bacteria or a certain virus, your body knows how to attack
and handle it, you become stronger.
You're not as fragile as you were, but you're not.
But you're more than robust.
You can thrive and survive when introduced.
But Taleb also warns us systems that over protect and eliminate risk, like being a helicopter
(04:32):
parent or corporate environments that shield people from accountability.
That kind of coddling doesn't create resilience, it breeds fragility.
And that's what we're seeing.
You know, in my opinion, teams, employees, and even entire organizations that can't handle the
unexpected because they're never been tested.
(04:52):
And we saw this through the pandemic where something bad happened.
People thought it was a worst case scenario.
And in the book, he talks about this where people anticipate the worst case scenario, but the
worst case scenario was actually worse than the worst case scenario that we could actually predict.
Because we like to think that the tallest mountain that we can see and we know of is the tallest mountain that ever was.
(05:15):
Until we find the tallest mountain that ever was and it's bigger than the one that we ever saw.
Much like things of unpredictability and things that we come into contact with.
So with that in mind, we need to be people who can be antifragile, where you have that stress,
but you can still grow from it.
We don't need to over parent our kids, Let them fail.
It's okay to get a B or a C or even a D. And guess what?
(05:39):
If your kid forgets to bring their lunch, well, maybe they should go hungry for a little bit.
Your school won't let them go hungry because they'll give them food anyway, but they'll feel the stressor of it. Right.
Maybe we should let people do a task and not complete it on time where it doesn't affect the whole organization.
But it's just a minor setback and they learn from that and they can grow through the stressors of that.
(06:01):
That we're not shielding people from accountability, that they're growing in it.
You know, there's this meme out there that says, you know, I don't know why the 70s and 80s
kids look so good when they get older.
Maybe there was something in the water.
Yeah, maybe there was something from drinking from the garden hose outside that made us more
resilient than drinking sterilized bottled water.
(06:22):
I'm just saying I don't think there could be a correlation to that.
I know that I've had tons of vaccines being in the military. Guess what?
I'm alive and I'm kicking today and I'm pretty strong and my immunity is pretty good.
But we need to do that with everything.
We need to introduce a little bit of hostility.
Not all the time and not in a negative way, but we need to make it so that people stress and grow.
(06:45):
So the strengths of antifragile is that it forces us to rethink how we view stress and disorder.
As leaders, we can't just protect our teams from every challenge.
We need to expose them to manageable stress so that they can grow.
But we don't need to overdo it, because in any organism, if you overdo it, it dies off. Right.
(07:07):
How many civilizations don't exist today because they died off?
Well, that's because it became overstressed and they couldn't do what they needed to do in order to survive.
So my critique of this book is that sometimes he wonders and it gets a little bit wordy, but
I think everything is still applicable.
It's a great read and I really like how he doesn't just hand us neat lessons and bullet points
(07:28):
so you can just walk away from it.
You have to really think about this book and it took me a while to write this book review because
it is books within a books as he said.
And it's kind of all over the place, but it's still really getting into the definitions of what he's really talking about.
It's more than just resiliency.
It's more than just robustness.
It's thriving Being antifragile, not Fragile So who is this book for?
(07:50):
I would say if you're a leader, an entrepreneur, or anyone who is tired of living in a bubble
wrapped world like me, if you're looking to toughen up, to stop being fragile, you're looking
to help people grow stronger instead of weaker with every setback.
This is a required reading for you.
I'm just saying it opened up my eyes to a lot of things and I think it's a good read.
(08:11):
There's a lot of applicable things to leaders and organizations to anywhere, whether it's at
your home, your church, or at work. This book is applicable.
And the obvious takeaway is fragility is everywhere today.
But fragility doesn't build leaders.
If you want to lead effectively, you've got to create antifragile systems for yourself and for your people.
(08:33):
That means embracing challenge, using failure as a feedback mechanism instead of a setback,
and teaching your teams that discomfort is a teacher, not an enemy.
In fact, comfort breeds complacency and complacency kills you no matter what, whether it kills
your work, your business, your home, or even yourself because you're not as aware. Comfort is the enemy.
(08:55):
And if we don't, we'll keep raising leaders who fold under pressure instead of rising through
it and going through it.
And so I think that if you have a reading list, this book should definitely be on it because
it's going to help us create a generation of leaders that are antifragile instead of fragile.
So stop running from chaos and start growing through it.
(09:19):
So my challenge to you today is let's develop anti fragility.
So one thing that you can do is is expose yourself to a small controlled challenge that pushes
you out of your comfort zone.
Like trying a new skill or having a tough conversation and then letting us know how that went for you. How was the discomfort?
How did you handle it?
(09:40):
Did you grow through it? What happened?
Was it as the outcome as scary as you thought it was?
I doubt it would be.
This builds robustness and resilience and thriveness by teaching us to adapt and grow from stress,
much like Taleb's idea of the system gaining from disorder.
As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
(10:00):
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, and hit all
the bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode,
you'll be alerted, please go ahead and do all that before you go.
(10:20):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topic.
Topics that we've talked about here today but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. State of the Obvious
(10:53):
Sam.
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