July 4, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, we explore the idea that leadership isn’t about a title—it’s about how you show up, the influence you have, and the impact you leave behind. Richard and I break down the difference between charisma and charm. Charm might win a room for a moment, but charisma leaves a lasting impression—it’s about creating real, authentic connections that make people feel seen, heard, and better about themselves.
Charisma isn’t about spotlighting yourself. It’s about understanding others—their emotions, their motivations—and helping them see their own potential. That’s the kind of leadership people remember.
We also talk about how the speed of life and our dependence on technology can dull our human edge. Remote work, packed calendars, and back-to-back Zooms leave little room for reflection or meaningful connection. Richard points out that when every interaction feels transactional, we lose the emotional depth that real leadership requires.
The antidote? Be intentional. Create small pauses. Give yourself even a minute between meetings to reset, refocus, and reconnect—not just with others, but with yourself.
Charisma isn’t just something you’re born with—it’s something you can build. Richard shares practical steps:
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Start by setting an intention before every interaction. Ask yourself, What kind of energy do I want to bring into this room?
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Tune into your emotional state. If you're stressed or scattered, slow your breathing. Ground yourself.
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Pay attention to how you show up—not just what you say, but how you make people feel.
Leadership lives in those quiet transitions—between meetings, before calls, in the spaces where you choose how to respond.
We also dig into authenticity and that quiet voice of doubt so many of us wrestle with—imposter syndrome. Richard shares a simple but powerful idea: run small experiments. Share a little more of who you are in low-risk spaces. Let people see the human behind the role. You’ll be surprised by how it builds connection—and confidence.
We talk about how authenticity isn’t weakness. It’s your strength. Especially for women in leadership who often navigate the tension between being assertive and being seen as “too much” or “not enough,” authenticity can be a powerful anchor. Practice vulnerability in safe circles. Then bring it into the bigger arenas where it matters most.
Leadership also means taking the time to reflect. Richard encourages building a daily rhythm of looking back—not just on what you did, but how it made you feel. What energized you? What drained you? These patterns reveal your values. And once you know what drives you, you can lead with more clarity and purpose.
We close the conversation by talking about psychological safety. It’s more than a buzzword—it’s the foundation for real leadership. If people don’t feel safe to speak up, you’ll never get their best thinking. As a leader, your job is to create space where people feel they can take risks, share honestly, and show up as themselves.
If leadership is about impact, then charisma, authenticity, and reflection are the tools that help you leave a mark that lasts. This episode is about learning how to lead not just with your head, but with your heart.
Connect With Richard:
website: www.richard-reid.com
email: richard@pinnaclewellbeingservice.com
Connect with Tim:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
Instagram: @TimStating
Tiktok:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Staton (00:02):
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable disclaimer.
Disclaimer (00:26):
The show process or service by trademark, trademark, manufacturer, otherwise does not necessarily
constitute or imply the endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation
the are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.
Tim (00:35):
Hey, so welcome back to another episode.
So, oftentimes when we think about leadership, we think about the formal titles and everything
that goes along with it.
And leadership isn't about the titles or our designation.
It's about impact, influence and inspiration.
And so we have a very special guest today.
We have Richard, who's joining us today all the way from South Africa, and I'm really excited
(01:01):
to have him here on the show. So, Richard, welcome.
Richard (01:04):
Great to be here, Tim, thanks for having me.
Tim (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely. I've been looking forward to this episode and the topic about charisma that
we're going to talk about.
But before we do that, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Richard (01:19):
Yeah. So I wear many hats, but I originally started out working as an IT consultant and a business consultant.
And about 20 years ago, I decided to retrain.
I retrained as a psychotherapist and from working with individuals, many of whom were in business,
I then got introduced into their organization, started to branch out in terms of coaching, organization,
(01:41):
consultancy, training, and I guess now I operate in all of those realms.
Everything I do really is to do with helping people and organizations to reach their full potential.
So I work with people with severe trauma all the way through to boardroom execs who are looking
to, as you say, improve their influence, their impact.
All of that good stuff, but essentially all of it has that.
(02:02):
That psychological underpinning to it.
Tim (02:04):
Awesome.
Richard (02:05):
So.
Tim (02:05):
So one of the questions that I have for you, just start right off here, is when did you know
that this was like a shift that you want to do?
You said you had an IT background, but when did you know? Like, you know what?
I really want to get into the people side of this.
Richard (02:20):
Yeah. Well, pretty much as soon as I got into it, I didn't enjoy it at all.
I mean, where my strengths lay were not so much as a techie, but being the person who translates
a lot of those techie ideas into ways that meant something for the individuals who were the end users.
And so very early on in my career, I realized that's where my interest, that's where my strengths lay.
(02:40):
And then I took a year out from doing that and traveled the world.
And actually traveling the world, I met a psychiatrist from Wales.
We ended up sharing a tent in Patagonia in Argentina, talking about what we were doing there. He just got divorced.
I was looking to do something different with my career.
And he said, have you ever thought about being a psychotherapist? Really him.
That put me onto the idea of channeling all the things that I was interested in, all the things
(03:03):
that I felt I was good at, into, into a meaningful career.
And that's how I got to where I am today.
Tim (03:08):
That's awesome. How two people can meet in a completely unthinkable location, right in many
people's minds, completely random, and all of a sudden it ends up into a life changing event. That's. That's amazing and awesome.
So when you were doing it, what was your view of leadership?
Or were you in leadership roles?
Or were you just an individual contributor?
(03:28):
And they kind of get tossed into a leadership position.
Richard (03:32):
So I was in a management role from very early on in my career.
And I guess when I sort of went into the work environment sort of, sort of mid to late 90s,
it was still very much that sort of formal view of traditional leadership.
You know, the authority base, people having to present themselves as infallible, all those kinds of things.
And actually realizing that didn't work for me.
(03:52):
It didn't work for many of the people that were around me.
And so one of the ways in which I tried to operate as a manager was to try and meet people where
they were, understand their motivations, understand their hopes and concerns, and really adapt
my messaging to suit the environment, the people that I was with, not in an authentic way, but
in a way of just pivoting slightly in terms of the emphasis to really sort of hopefully resonate
(04:13):
with what was important to them.
And I found that that got really good impact for me.
And then that's really sort of followed through into what I do in the therapy in the coaching world as well.
It's not about talking at people, it's talking with people.
Tim (04:23):
Absolutely. I like how you say it's talking about talking with people, not talking at people.
So speaking of people and the topic of charisma, can.
Can we just define what we're talking about so that we're all on the same page because I think
it is a very heavy topic that people like.
Oh, charisma, either you have it or you don't have it. And not.
(04:44):
I don't believe that, but that's why we're talking today. So what is it? What is charisma?
Richard (04:49):
Well, for me, charisma is really about how you connect with people.
Sometimes it's used interchangeably with the idea of charm.
And for me, charm is really about telling people what they want to hear.
Whether you believe it or not, it's about those short term gains.
Whereas with charisma, what we're trying to do is to create authentic connection with people,
understanding where people are coming from, helping them to understand our position, hopefully
(05:13):
being able to bring those two things together in a way that works for everybody concerned.
So it's about connection, it's about longer term relationships, and it's about creating a virtuous circle.
So actually you're getting what you need, but you're also helping other people to get what they need.
And they're coming away from their interactions with you feeling better about themselves and
(05:33):
better about the possibilities that are available to them.
And I guess there are lots of training courses out there around this idea of charisma, but for
me, a lot of them fall down because it's about an emphasis on outward behaviors.
And for me, the outward behaviors come from how you manage your internal world.
So recognizing what's important to you, being in touch with your own emotions and in terms of
(05:55):
the emotions and energy that you're giving out into the world, and having the spare capacity
to recognize what's important for other people, what are they not saying?
What sits beneath the words that they use.
And so often we objectify people not intentionally, but because we're so concerned with what
we want to achieve and so focused upon the content of what they say rather than the emotions that sit beneath it.
(06:16):
And true charisma for me is really tapping into the emotions that sit beneath somebody's positions.
Tim (06:21):
And you're in your line of work.
How hard is this for people to do?
I know from my own perspective, but like, from your perspective, is this something that comes
natural to people or is it just foreign and people just don't know how to do this anymore?
Richard (06:34):
Yeah, I think there's a broad, broad spectrum and it's fair to say some people are born with
more charisma than other people.
But I firmly believe, and the results stand up to support this, that actually wherever you're
starting from, you can improve you can develop and you can move further along that continuum.
So it's absolutely within anybody's capabilities to become better at this stuff.
(06:56):
But I think there are definitely things that get in the way of it.
And I think the biggest thing that gets in the way of it is the pace of life.
More than ever now, we're operating at a fast pace.
We've got things at our fingertips, you know, technology.
So what that does is it increases our impulses and impulses really get in the way of our ability
to be emotionally intelligent and more than that.
(07:16):
So often we're working remotely now as well, so we're not naturally honing those skills.
And I think even for somebody like me, if I am away from people for a few days, I notice that rustiness.
I'm not as sharp, I'm not as emotionally intelligent as I might be.
So there's a lot to be said for hybrid working and working remotely and having technology.
(07:37):
But it definitely gets in, in the way of some of those natural human skills.
Tim (07:42):
Yeah. So I reminded of our younger generation coming up and everything is so technology based.
Even myself, I do a lot of things technology based communications, text message, emails, phone
calls and, and I wanted to do this on video because it's more of as close as we can get to being in person together. Right.
(08:02):
So when we talk about those human skills, what are some things that we need to do to fix that? Human to human interaction.
Richard (08:11):
Yeah. So I think first and foremost it's been around people more.
But more than that, it's about being more reflectful and mindful and you think about the medium
that we're operating on today.
You know, things like teams, zoom.
People are packing more and more into their, into their day, particularly working day.
So you're going from one meeting straight to the next meeting, straight into the next meeting.
(08:31):
And in the old days you at least have a break to walk down the corridor back to your desk or
to change to a different meeting room or venue.
So you have that time for your brain to sort of come down for reflection, to talk about people,
about things that sit outside of the main meeting agenda.
Whereas now, because we're packing so much in, things are becoming more transactional.
(08:51):
So people are turning up for meetings and it's all about, right, what are we here to discuss? Let's discuss it.
Right, see you next week.
So you're not getting those bits that sit around the formal content of the meeting.
So you don't forge the same connections with people.
You don't understand things that people are perhaps Afraid to venture within the main meeting.
(09:12):
So inevitably, we don't reflect on how we're feeling, we don't reflect on what we're giving out.
And we don't have time to get to know people on a deeper level.
And having good relationships with people helps us to withstand difficulties, disagreements
in meetings, because we don't know people as well.
So actually, we are more like to read the worst into what they say, to take them at face value
(09:35):
without understanding where their position is coming from.
So as much as technology is fantastic, it does lend itself to inhibiting our natural charisma.
Tim (09:45):
That's really powerful that you say that, because as you're talking about it, I'm thinking about
my typical day and how I go from meeting to meeting to meeting.
And it is very transactional.
And I find myself having to be more intentional on the relationship part of trying to get to
know somebody on a deeper level.
So if you had to, like, list two to three traits or two to three people that you think exhibit
(10:08):
this characteristic the best, who would they be and what would they be?
Richard (10:13):
Interesting. So I think the first people that come to mind first, one is Oprah Winfrey, and
I'll explain why in a moment.
And another one is Richard Branson.
I think for me, both of those people, first and foremost, they.
They're very accomplished, but they also demonstrate. Demonstrate humility.
So they don't claim to have all the answers to everything, but they. They involve other people. They're very inclusive. They.
(10:35):
They acknowledge when they don't know something, they acknowledge when they've made a mistake,
but they do it with a positive attitude.
In other words, what we call the growth mindset.
They're quite happy to talk about their setbacks, but they embrace them.
They're part of their story.
And I think that levels of playing field, it's inspiring for other people.
And that means that people are more alike to open up about what's going on for them.
So that's the first thing.
(10:56):
But I think more than that, they demonstrate curiosity for other people.
Again, talking with people rather than talking at people, wanting to understand what's important
to other people in terms of making people feel relaxed, but also so that they know how to hone
their message in the way that's most likely to resonate with people.
So I think that's important too.
But also, if you listen to them and lots of other very charismatic people, they're very measured
(11:22):
in terms of when they speak and what they say, they don't necessarily speak for the sake of speaking.
They speak when they're adding value and they give people that extra moment to qualify what
they think and what they say.
And you think about how often we are in regular human interactions, we tend to hold people to
the first thing that comes out of their mouth.
(11:42):
And it may be the first time they've thought about something.
It may be they're not quite sure what they think or feel about something.
And if we close people down straight away, number one, it makes them feel unsafe.
But number two, we don't really allow them that opportunity to better understand their own position.
When we allow people to that, not only is that helpful for us, but also they come away from
those interactions with us having a very different experience than the one that might have with the average person.
(12:07):
So lots of reasons why slowing down, introducing pauses into conversation can be really, really
useful in terms of taking that conversation in a very different direction.
Tim (12:16):
Yeah, I was just writing these notes down because I was like, you know, you mentioned being humble and having humility.
They create curiosity in people.
And the part that really resonated with me was giving the people the ability to kind of retalk
about what they said, because sometimes it's probably the first thing they're saying it. And I don't really.
(12:38):
I can't really imagine a time that I've actually seen that where people really took the extra time to ask people.
It's like, well, what did you mean by that? Right.
And ask people to kind of dig deeper into their thought and giving people that grace, to really
kind of find their way in the moment through a meeting or through interaction.
I think that's a really key point because it goes back to seeking understanding versus seeking
(13:02):
to be right or wrong.
Richard (13:03):
So.
Tim (13:03):
So with that. So what are some things that we can do today to get better at this?
Richard (13:10):
Yeah, well, I think the first thing is setting the intention and going back to what we were
talking about before with things like zoom meetings, you know, back to back meetings, we're
thinking about the outcomes, we're not thinking about how we're achieving the outcomes.
So rather than what do I want to say and what I want to get out of this meeting, yes, those
are important, but what's the energy and the atmosphere that you want to create in that.
(13:33):
That next conversation or meeting?
And I think that's really, really important because so much of how we experience the world is through feelings.
You know, we'd like to think of ourselves as being very rational, particularly in business,
but actually, essentially we're sophisticated animals.
And the first way in which we experience Any situation is through energy and emotions.
So setting that intention is really important because it means that we are more likely to be
(13:57):
mindful of how we're coming across, and our outward behaviors and the way that we deliver our
message is more likely to be channeled towards the intention that we've set.
We don't always get it right, but we're setting that intention.
And I often talk to people about transition.
So even if you're very busy and you've got lots to do, even if you've only got 30 seconds between
one meeting and another, setting your intention but also recognizing how you are feeling is really, really important.
(14:24):
Because even if you can't change that feeling, being aware of it allows you to mitigate against it.
If you're really ultra enthusiastic, and that doesn't suit the occasion, you're going to crowd somebody out.
And equally, if you're angry, even if you're not angry with that person, that's going to influence
your voice, your body language, the energy you bring into the situation.
So at least being aware of it is really, really important.
(14:44):
And even if you haven't got time to do anything else with it, notice your breathing.
Our breathing is a massive indication of how we are feeling.
And even if you've only got 30 seconds, setting your intention and slowing your breathing down
is massively important in terms of creating that spare capacity to think about how you want
to behave, how you're coming across, and how other people are reacting to the message that you're delivering.
(15:07):
So those would be my very sort of basic things that people can start to do in any conversation,
even in conversations with friends and family starting to apply.
Those might mean that actually it's not such a big step up when you go into those important meetings.
And it might mean that actually you experience your friends and family in a slightly different
way because you're creating space for other things to come in.
Tim (15:28):
That's a great point. Let's talk about the transition, though, a little bit more, because I
think that's probably more important than people think it is.
So when you talk about the transition, it's between going from one thing to another thing.
And I like to equate this to sometimes our bosses, right, are reactionary to the last thing
that they came in contact with.
(15:48):
So somebody may have left somebody's office.
Now they're angry, like you talked about, and you're next up.
And so your goal is, we have a purpose here, but now you're angry. What is it?
What do I need to do to help offset that anger and being able to pick up on that.
So I think transitions are important.
So if we are are in leadership roles and if we're leading people, you said it's important to
(16:09):
recognize that, but can you tease that out a little bit more?
Because I think it's a lot more important to be able to transition from one thing to the next thing.
Richard (16:17):
Yeah, absolutely. It's almost like your warmup. Imagine you're an athlete.
You don't just turn up and run the hundred meters.
You warm up for it.
And your transition is your preparation for that next meeting.
We tend to think about the meeting itself, but not the things that bracket the meeting. So it's massively important.
And every experience that we have, even the ones that we think are fairly inconsequential, have
(16:37):
an impact on our emotions, our energy, and our body language.
So taking a few moments to register that is really, really important.
And a lot of the time, we're operating what's called system one of the brain.
System one is really your stress response.
And when we're there, we're less emotionally intelligent enough, and we'll come away think,
well, all I said was this, and they flew off the handle.
(16:59):
How we say, and in those moments, we're not registering the impact we're having, and things
don't come across in the way that we want them to.
Registering when system one's at play is really, really important.
And there are simple things we can do. We've mentioned breathing.
It can be things like noticing your feet touching the ground.
It can be even just turning your head to one side and just scanning the room for a few moments
(17:20):
before you go into the next meeting.
What they do is they trigger what's called the parasympathetic nervous system.
So in other words, they send messages back to the brain that say, it's over, the difficult situation's over, you can relax.
And so even if we've only got a few seconds, it's taking the edge off that experience a little bit.
So it's at least mitigating against it.
So really, really important, worst case scenario.
(17:42):
And again, this, you know, this depends upon the nature of the relationship we've got with somebody
when we're in that next meeting, maybe even acknowledging what we're feeling if it's somebody
we know a little bit, saying, actually, I apologize, I've just had a really difficult meeting.
And you might not go into the details of the meeting, but you're putting it out there.
And even that is acknowledging the dynamics that are in the room.
(18:02):
And sometimes that can be a great way of putting people at ease because you're being honest.
Tim (18:07):
That's a great point to being able to be vulnerable on yourself and express, you know, hey,
I did have a difficult time and being able to be humble.
But I want to go to something that you said earlier, which you talked about being authentic,
where, you know, people think charisma may be putting on a show or an act, and how do we really
develop more authentic pieces of us and if we've never been intentional about our behavior or
(18:32):
actions, and even to develop a more authentic self, or maybe ourselves aren't as pleasant as
it needs to be, and we're working on that.
How do we overcome the fakeness of trying to be more authentic? If that makes sense.
Richard (18:46):
Yeah, yeah. I think most of us can see through that inauthenticity. Can't wait.
You see it with politicians quite a lot.
They've sort of had that media training, but we see through, and actually it works against them.
So I think being authentic is really, really important.
But it's actually something that a lot of people feel uncomfortable about.
And often I work with people in business who very accomplished at what they do, but they talk about imposter syndrome.
(19:10):
They're in a role where they're doing very well, but they're expecting that tap on the shoulder
that says, actually, you shouldn't be here.
And one of the reasons for that, it's not the only reason, but one of the reasons for that is
because actually we're not showing our uniqueness.
And this is, you know, this is humors across the board that we tend to hide away the parts of
ourselves that we even think aren't acceptable or don't fit into the environment that we're in.
(19:33):
And we almost run the risk of becoming a cookie cutter version of everybody else.
And so starting to experiment with celebrating our uniqueness is a really important part of
the work that I do.
It's getting people to, yes, acknowledge parts that you can brush up on and polish, but also
say, actually, this is who I am at my core and I'm comfortable with that.
(19:55):
And if that's something you haven't done, suddenly going from 0 to 100 is quite scary.
So the kind of things that I talk to people about is doing little micro experiments and doing those repeatedly and incrementally.
So it might be, rather than having a superficial conversation with somebody on the morning,
Monday morning about what you did the weekend, share something that actually matters to you, something that.
(20:18):
That you love doing, even if it's a little bit quirky or something that really gets you goat.
Giving something to somebody that's actually real and testing the water.
And a lot of time you'll be surprised.
People actually either react in a positive way or at the very least, they show curiosity for
what it is that we share with them.
And actually when we do that, that feeds our confidence and we can do that again and we can
(20:43):
maybe do a little bit more next time.
And so over time, we're starting to be a truer version of who we are.
And that's not to say that we don't adapt when we go into work compared to how we are at home.
But the closer we can be to being one version of ourselves, the more authentic we're going to be.
But also we're going to do our best work and we're actually going to also develop our own personal brand.
(21:04):
People are going to know what we stand for because we stand out from the crowd.
And that's really, really important in terms of the work that I do as well.
What is your personal brand?
Tim (21:11):
That's a great, that's a great point.
You know, what is your personal brand?
And you know, how do you stand out?
And being vulnerable, again, this, I think this goes back to being vulnerable to be yourself.
And that's really hard, I think, for a lot of people to do, especially in high stakes environments,
if, if we're not being taught that at an earlier age, I think.
In your experience, how do you find that? Is it.
(21:33):
Do you find one demographic harder to work with than another when it comes to being able to
embrace our authenticity, like who we are as people and overcoming imposter syndrome?
Richard (21:44):
Yeah, I think it's challenging different demographics.
But I do a lot of work with women in business and I think women find this really tough, particularly
as they get higher up the ladder, that they kind of get caught between two stalls quite often.
They don't want to come across as being a soft touch and they don't want to come across as being
just like the men or even a more exaggerated version of the men that they encounter.
(22:08):
And so they're left grappling with which parts themselves are actually okay to share.
And I think Hillary Clinton touched on this when she was vying to become president.
She talks about, you know, I get vilified if I show my feminine side.
I get vilified if I try and be more assertive.
What do you want me to be?
So I think lots of people have that, but I think particularly women, as they sort of get Higher
(22:30):
up the ladder, really grapple with that.
So again, part of the work that I do is really getting people to do these small experiments.
So we'll just give people a little bit of who you are, see how they react, get more comfortable
with it, try it with friends and family, get comfortable doing it there, and then maybe just
do a little bit in a more exposed situation.
But the more you expose yourself to vulnerability, a lot of the time actually you get that positive
(22:54):
feedback that says it's okay to be like that.
And actually you're known for that.
You stand out for being like that.
But very, very difficult because of how society's set up.
Tim (23:04):
Yeah, it's kind of. It reminds me of how do you build trust? Well, you got it.
You got to trust people.
It kind of sounds kind of counterintuitive, right?
Like, how do you build trust?
Well, you got to trust people.
Well, I don't trust people.
Richard (23:17):
Exactly.
Tim (23:18):
How do you be authentic?
Well, share a little bit of party yourself and that's scary. Yeah, yeah. And so I would.
I would say, how can we, I know you mentioned, share a little part of something that that's more about yourself.
But what is something that we can do internally that is not in a public setting?
(23:39):
Because maybe there are people who are like, you know what, Richard, I don't know who I am.
Like, I pretended to be somebody else for so many years.
I don't know who I am.
What can I do to figure out who I am?
Richard (23:50):
Yeah, yeah. Really interesting question.
I think one of the important things that will give us a clear indication of who we are and what's
important to us is to register our feelings.
It goes back to emotional intelligence.
And a lot of the time, again, because we're busy, we don't tend to reflect on our experiences.
And one of the things that I often talk about with clients is put a bit of time aside at the
(24:12):
end of the day to reflect on your experiences.
It only has to be sort of 10 or 15 minutes.
Get a pen and pad and think back on the different things that happened that day and the emotional
impact they've had on you.
Which things have actually made you feel good, which things have made you feel energized.
And that will give you some indication of what's important to you.
And the clearer you get on that, you'll start to recognize themes and patterns.
(24:35):
And that will tell you what are the things I need to protect, what are the things that actually
are important to me that I need to make non negotiable.
And the More you sort of file away at it, the clearer view you get on how it is that you want to shape your world.
And that will also give you a clear view on where you're adding value.
Because quite often we get energized by, excuse me, by being creative, by achieving things, by helping people.
(25:00):
And the clearer we become on that, we start to seek those opportunities out.
And it also gives us a sense of self that actually, I'm somebody who helps people or I'm somebody
who gives people a bit of a lift when I speak to them.
That's part of who I am.
And all the research shows that actually when we start to register positive quality in ourselves, we.
We gravitate towards them more.
(25:22):
Doing that's really, really important because so often when.
When we're operating at a fast pace, we don't do that.
We're on the treadmill again. We're objectifying things.
We're thinking about, what have I got to do next? Rather, how was that?
Tim (25:34):
Yeah, no, that's a very interesting take on it because from our conversation, I've.
I've taken away a couple things, is slow down, right?
Slow down and be more in tune with emotions and become more emotionally intelligent of your
emotions and other people's emotions.
And then be authentic of who you are and figure out who you are.
(25:56):
Because I think that resonates more with anything else. Right.
And I think that's what you're saying.
Richard (26:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, for most people, you don't get that single light bulb moment.
You think, ah, I know who I am. It comes over time.
But the more you whittle away at it and you start to define things, the more it reveals other
things that are important to you and are important part of what your brand is as well.
Tim (26:17):
Those are all great points. So you just.
I'm looking at your book right now, so I noticed as we're having this conversation, it's a great
outline of the reason why you should read Richard's book Charisma Unlocked the Science and Strategy
to captivate, influence and succeed in business.
So from just this little bit of our interaction together. Right. Those are.
(26:41):
There are tons of nuggets that are in this book.
So what drove you to be like, you know what?
I have to write this.
I have to get this book out to people.
Richard (26:50):
A few reasons, really. I guess the main reason is because the topics come up in so many of the
coaching and the therapy sessions that I have with people.
And people want to learn about this stuff.
You know, they want to be the best version of themselves.
And so, you know, it's really the accumulation of 20 years of experience of working with people
and doing research on this topic. And it's.
(27:12):
And it's so important because it really does make a difference.
It's all well and good being accomplished at what you do for a career, but actually, whatever
you do, your connections with people make the fundamental difference.
The things that make you stand out there are the things that will make you rise the ladder,
if that's what you want to do.
Tim (27:29):
Points. So I usually leave the last word up to my guest.
And is there anything that we haven't talked about that you're like, you know what?
We haven't talked about this at all.
And I really want to talk about this one thing.
So what is that one thing that you want to talk about that we haven't talked about already?
Richard (27:46):
Interesting question. I think it's sort of.
It's an offshoot of some of the things that we have spoken about.
It's really this idea of psychological safety.
So we spoke a little bit earlier about setting intentions for how you want to present in a meeting
and the energy you want to create.
But the biggest thing that facilitates connection is promoting psychological safety.
(28:06):
So, in other words, what can I do to put somebody at ease and let them know that actually I'm interested?
I'm not going to close them down.
Even if I've got a difference of opinion, I'm going to show respect and curiosity for their position.
So that's everything from the kind of questions that we ask all the way through to how we pace
the conversation and how we use our body language.
(28:29):
So next time you go into a conversation with somebody, think about what can I do to give them
reassurances that I'm interested in what they've got to say?
And that's a huge area.
But just, again, even just setting that intention can make such a difference to the act.
Tim (28:44):
What do you say to people who don't believe in psychological safety?
Because I had a conversation with somebody a little bit over a year ago, and I said, hey, what
about as leaders, we need to set psychological safety for people to voice their opinions, for people to. To speak out.
And part of the conversation was as well, you're a leader, you should just naturally be okay
(29:06):
not being okay and work through it.
So what do you say to people who say, well, psychological safety is not really a thing.
How do we overcome those people?
Richard (29:15):
Well, I think if you're in an organization, the biggest thing is look at the stats, look at
the stats, the number of people that leave your organizations, the number of people that take
time off sick, and maybe benchmark your organization against similar organizations within, within your industry.
Because in, in most industries, the, the most innovative companies are the ones that are the most successful.
(29:38):
Actually, psychological safety is really, really important for promoting that sense of creativity. Creativity is about experimentation.
And if you're worried that you're going to get shouted down or punished, you're not going to
speak up with new ideas, you're not going to speak up when you don't understand or you've made a mistake.
So there are lots of reasons why it's important.
And if, and if you're somebody who's a skeptic about that, maybe do an experiment with, with
(30:00):
one team within your organization, try a different approach with them and just see if the data backs that up.
And I'm pretty sure it will.
Tim (30:08):
No, absolutely. I'm a big fan of making sure that everyone has a voice and everyone speaks up and share theirs mind.
Because I don't want to leave any ideas on the table like anything that I didn't hear about
or somebody else needs to hear.
Those need to come out and thinking about charismatic leaders and you know, the topic of charisma,
you know, I think about the leaders that I look up to and I always felt always comfortable.
(30:34):
Like I think that's a lack of a better word, but comfortable to be around them, comfortable
to share ideas, comfortable to talk.
And then I felt like I was heard.
And then when they left, I always felt like, man, that person was really cool to be around.
And those are things that I aspire to live up to in any interaction I have is hopefully one,
(30:55):
not boring and two, that people walk away and go, man, you know what?
I really enjoy talking to that person and I want to meet them again.
Richard (31:02):
Exactly. So they promote your brand, but also it creates a ripple effect in the world, isn't it?
People come away feeling good and they hopefully pay that forward.
Tim (31:10):
Absolutely. So if you're watching this right now and listening this on the radio, if you want
to hear more, more from Richard, I'm gonna post in the comments down below in the description
all the ways that you can find Richard.
I'm gonna leave links to his books, I'm gonna leave links to his website and how you can get
a hold of them and you can reach out and talk to him.
So Richard, I really appreciate you being on the show and thanks for stopping by, absolute pleasure. Thanks Tim, as always.
Tim Staton (31:35):
Thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favorite review if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, and hit all
the bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode,
(31:56):
you'll be alerted, please go ahead and do.
Tim (31:58):
All that before you go.
Tim Staton (31:59):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by.
Tim (32:11):
I'm Tim Staton.
Tim Staton (32:12):
Staten the Obvious.
Tim (32:33):
Sam.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable disclaimer.
Disclaimer (00:26):
The show process or service by trademark, trademark, manufacturer, otherwise does not necessarily
constitute or imply the endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation
the are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.
Tim (00:35):
Hey, so welcome back to another episode.
So, oftentimes when we think about leadership, we think about the formal titles and everything
that goes along with it.
And leadership isn't about the titles or our designation.
It's about impact, influence and inspiration.
And so we have a very special guest today.
We have Richard, who's joining us today all the way from South Africa, and I'm really excited
(01:01):
to have him here on the show. So, Richard, welcome.
Richard (01:04):
Great to be here, Tim, thanks for having me.
Tim (01:07):
Yeah, absolutely. I've been looking forward to this episode and the topic about charisma that
we're going to talk about.
But before we do that, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Richard (01:19):
Yeah. So I wear many hats, but I originally started out working as an IT consultant and a business consultant.
And about 20 years ago, I decided to retrain.
I retrained as a psychotherapist and from working with individuals, many of whom were in business,
I then got introduced into their organization, started to branch out in terms of coaching, organization,
(01:41):
consultancy, training, and I guess now I operate in all of those realms.
Everything I do really is to do with helping people and organizations to reach their full potential.
So I work with people with severe trauma all the way through to boardroom execs who are looking
to, as you say, improve their influence, their impact.
All of that good stuff, but essentially all of it has that.
(02:02):
That psychological underpinning to it.
Tim (02:04):
Awesome.
Richard (02:05):
So.
Tim (02:05):
So one of the questions that I have for you, just start right off here, is when did you know
that this was like a shift that you want to do?
You said you had an IT background, but when did you know? Like, you know what?
I really want to get into the people side of this.
Richard (02:20):
Yeah. Well, pretty much as soon as I got into it, I didn't enjoy it at all.
I mean, where my strengths lay were not so much as a techie, but being the person who translates
a lot of those techie ideas into ways that meant something for the individuals who were the end users.
And so very early on in my career, I realized that's where my interest, that's where my strengths lay.
(02:40):
And then I took a year out from doing that and traveled the world.
And actually traveling the world, I met a psychiatrist from Wales.
We ended up sharing a tent in Patagonia in Argentina, talking about what we were doing there. He just got divorced.
I was looking to do something different with my career.
And he said, have you ever thought about being a psychotherapist? Really him.
That put me onto the idea of channeling all the things that I was interested in, all the things
(03:03):
that I felt I was good at, into, into a meaningful career.
And that's how I got to where I am today.
Tim (03:08):
That's awesome. How two people can meet in a completely unthinkable location, right in many
people's minds, completely random, and all of a sudden it ends up into a life changing event. That's. That's amazing and awesome.
So when you were doing it, what was your view of leadership?
Or were you in leadership roles?
Or were you just an individual contributor?
(03:28):
And they kind of get tossed into a leadership position.
Richard (03:32):
So I was in a management role from very early on in my career.
And I guess when I sort of went into the work environment sort of, sort of mid to late 90s,
it was still very much that sort of formal view of traditional leadership.
You know, the authority base, people having to present themselves as infallible, all those kinds of things.
And actually realizing that didn't work for me.
(03:52):
It didn't work for many of the people that were around me.
And so one of the ways in which I tried to operate as a manager was to try and meet people where
they were, understand their motivations, understand their hopes and concerns, and really adapt
my messaging to suit the environment, the people that I was with, not in an authentic way, but
in a way of just pivoting slightly in terms of the emphasis to really sort of hopefully resonate
(04:13):
with what was important to them.
And I found that that got really good impact for me.
And then that's really sort of followed through into what I do in the therapy in the coaching world as well.
It's not about talking at people, it's talking with people.
Tim (04:23):
Absolutely. I like how you say it's talking about talking with people, not talking at people.
So speaking of people and the topic of charisma, can.
Can we just define what we're talking about so that we're all on the same page because I think
it is a very heavy topic that people like.
Oh, charisma, either you have it or you don't have it. And not.
(04:44):
I don't believe that, but that's why we're talking today. So what is it? What is charisma?
Richard (04:49):
Well, for me, charisma is really about how you connect with people.
Sometimes it's used interchangeably with the idea of charm.
And for me, charm is really about telling people what they want to hear.
Whether you believe it or not, it's about those short term gains.
Whereas with charisma, what we're trying to do is to create authentic connection with people,
understanding where people are coming from, helping them to understand our position, hopefully
(05:13):
being able to bring those two things together in a way that works for everybody concerned.
So it's about connection, it's about longer term relationships, and it's about creating a virtuous circle.
So actually you're getting what you need, but you're also helping other people to get what they need.
And they're coming away from their interactions with you feeling better about themselves and
(05:33):
better about the possibilities that are available to them.
And I guess there are lots of training courses out there around this idea of charisma, but for
me, a lot of them fall down because it's about an emphasis on outward behaviors.
And for me, the outward behaviors come from how you manage your internal world.
So recognizing what's important to you, being in touch with your own emotions and in terms of
(05:55):
the emotions and energy that you're giving out into the world, and having the spare capacity
to recognize what's important for other people, what are they not saying?
What sits beneath the words that they use.
And so often we objectify people not intentionally, but because we're so concerned with what
we want to achieve and so focused upon the content of what they say rather than the emotions that sit beneath it.
(06:16):
And true charisma for me is really tapping into the emotions that sit beneath somebody's positions.
Tim (06:21):
And you're in your line of work.
How hard is this for people to do?
I know from my own perspective, but like, from your perspective, is this something that comes
natural to people or is it just foreign and people just don't know how to do this anymore?
Richard (06:34):
Yeah, I think there's a broad, broad spectrum and it's fair to say some people are born with
more charisma than other people.
But I firmly believe, and the results stand up to support this, that actually wherever you're
starting from, you can improve you can develop and you can move further along that continuum.
So it's absolutely within anybody's capabilities to become better at this stuff.
(06:56):
But I think there are definitely things that get in the way of it.
And I think the biggest thing that gets in the way of it is the pace of life.
More than ever now, we're operating at a fast pace.
We've got things at our fingertips, you know, technology.
So what that does is it increases our impulses and impulses really get in the way of our ability
to be emotionally intelligent and more than that.
(07:16):
So often we're working remotely now as well, so we're not naturally honing those skills.
And I think even for somebody like me, if I am away from people for a few days, I notice that rustiness.
I'm not as sharp, I'm not as emotionally intelligent as I might be.
So there's a lot to be said for hybrid working and working remotely and having technology.
(07:37):
But it definitely gets in, in the way of some of those natural human skills.
Tim (07:42):
Yeah. So I reminded of our younger generation coming up and everything is so technology based.
Even myself, I do a lot of things technology based communications, text message, emails, phone
calls and, and I wanted to do this on video because it's more of as close as we can get to being in person together. Right.
(08:02):
So when we talk about those human skills, what are some things that we need to do to fix that? Human to human interaction.
Richard (08:11):
Yeah. So I think first and foremost it's been around people more.
But more than that, it's about being more reflectful and mindful and you think about the medium
that we're operating on today.
You know, things like teams, zoom.
People are packing more and more into their, into their day, particularly working day.
So you're going from one meeting straight to the next meeting, straight into the next meeting.
(08:31):
And in the old days you at least have a break to walk down the corridor back to your desk or
to change to a different meeting room or venue.
So you have that time for your brain to sort of come down for reflection, to talk about people,
about things that sit outside of the main meeting agenda.
Whereas now, because we're packing so much in, things are becoming more transactional.
(08:51):
So people are turning up for meetings and it's all about, right, what are we here to discuss? Let's discuss it.
Right, see you next week.
So you're not getting those bits that sit around the formal content of the meeting.
So you don't forge the same connections with people.
You don't understand things that people are perhaps Afraid to venture within the main meeting.
(09:12):
So inevitably, we don't reflect on how we're feeling, we don't reflect on what we're giving out.
And we don't have time to get to know people on a deeper level.
And having good relationships with people helps us to withstand difficulties, disagreements
in meetings, because we don't know people as well.
So actually, we are more like to read the worst into what they say, to take them at face value
(09:35):
without understanding where their position is coming from.
So as much as technology is fantastic, it does lend itself to inhibiting our natural charisma.
Tim (09:45):
That's really powerful that you say that, because as you're talking about it, I'm thinking about
my typical day and how I go from meeting to meeting to meeting.
And it is very transactional.
And I find myself having to be more intentional on the relationship part of trying to get to
know somebody on a deeper level.
So if you had to, like, list two to three traits or two to three people that you think exhibit
(10:08):
this characteristic the best, who would they be and what would they be?
Richard (10:13):
Interesting. So I think the first people that come to mind first, one is Oprah Winfrey, and
I'll explain why in a moment.
And another one is Richard Branson.
I think for me, both of those people, first and foremost, they.
They're very accomplished, but they also demonstrate. Demonstrate humility.
So they don't claim to have all the answers to everything, but they. They involve other people. They're very inclusive. They.
(10:35):
They acknowledge when they don't know something, they acknowledge when they've made a mistake,
but they do it with a positive attitude.
In other words, what we call the growth mindset.
They're quite happy to talk about their setbacks, but they embrace them.
They're part of their story.
And I think that levels of playing field, it's inspiring for other people.
And that means that people are more alike to open up about what's going on for them.
So that's the first thing.
(10:56):
But I think more than that, they demonstrate curiosity for other people.
Again, talking with people rather than talking at people, wanting to understand what's important
to other people in terms of making people feel relaxed, but also so that they know how to hone
their message in the way that's most likely to resonate with people.
So I think that's important too.
But also, if you listen to them and lots of other very charismatic people, they're very measured
(11:22):
in terms of when they speak and what they say, they don't necessarily speak for the sake of speaking.
They speak when they're adding value and they give people that extra moment to qualify what
they think and what they say.
And you think about how often we are in regular human interactions, we tend to hold people to
the first thing that comes out of their mouth.
(11:42):
And it may be the first time they've thought about something.
It may be they're not quite sure what they think or feel about something.
And if we close people down straight away, number one, it makes them feel unsafe.
But number two, we don't really allow them that opportunity to better understand their own position.
When we allow people to that, not only is that helpful for us, but also they come away from
those interactions with us having a very different experience than the one that might have with the average person.
(12:07):
So lots of reasons why slowing down, introducing pauses into conversation can be really, really
useful in terms of taking that conversation in a very different direction.
Tim (12:16):
Yeah, I was just writing these notes down because I was like, you know, you mentioned being humble and having humility.
They create curiosity in people.
And the part that really resonated with me was giving the people the ability to kind of retalk
about what they said, because sometimes it's probably the first thing they're saying it. And I don't really.
(12:38):
I can't really imagine a time that I've actually seen that where people really took the extra time to ask people.
It's like, well, what did you mean by that? Right.
And ask people to kind of dig deeper into their thought and giving people that grace, to really
kind of find their way in the moment through a meeting or through interaction.
I think that's a really key point because it goes back to seeking understanding versus seeking
(13:02):
to be right or wrong.
Richard (13:03):
So.
Tim (13:03):
So with that. So what are some things that we can do today to get better at this?
Richard (13:10):
Yeah, well, I think the first thing is setting the intention and going back to what we were
talking about before with things like zoom meetings, you know, back to back meetings, we're
thinking about the outcomes, we're not thinking about how we're achieving the outcomes.
So rather than what do I want to say and what I want to get out of this meeting, yes, those
are important, but what's the energy and the atmosphere that you want to create in that.
(13:33):
That next conversation or meeting?
And I think that's really, really important because so much of how we experience the world is through feelings.
You know, we'd like to think of ourselves as being very rational, particularly in business,
but actually, essentially we're sophisticated animals.
And the first way in which we experience Any situation is through energy and emotions.
So setting that intention is really important because it means that we are more likely to be
(13:57):
mindful of how we're coming across, and our outward behaviors and the way that we deliver our
message is more likely to be channeled towards the intention that we've set.
We don't always get it right, but we're setting that intention.
And I often talk to people about transition.
So even if you're very busy and you've got lots to do, even if you've only got 30 seconds between
one meeting and another, setting your intention but also recognizing how you are feeling is really, really important.
(14:24):
Because even if you can't change that feeling, being aware of it allows you to mitigate against it.
If you're really ultra enthusiastic, and that doesn't suit the occasion, you're going to crowd somebody out.
And equally, if you're angry, even if you're not angry with that person, that's going to influence
your voice, your body language, the energy you bring into the situation.
So at least being aware of it is really, really important.
(14:44):
And even if you haven't got time to do anything else with it, notice your breathing.
Our breathing is a massive indication of how we are feeling.
And even if you've only got 30 seconds, setting your intention and slowing your breathing down
is massively important in terms of creating that spare capacity to think about how you want
to behave, how you're coming across, and how other people are reacting to the message that you're delivering.
(15:07):
So those would be my very sort of basic things that people can start to do in any conversation,
even in conversations with friends and family starting to apply.
Those might mean that actually it's not such a big step up when you go into those important meetings.
And it might mean that actually you experience your friends and family in a slightly different
way because you're creating space for other things to come in.
Tim (15:28):
That's a great point. Let's talk about the transition, though, a little bit more, because I
think that's probably more important than people think it is.
So when you talk about the transition, it's between going from one thing to another thing.
And I like to equate this to sometimes our bosses, right, are reactionary to the last thing
that they came in contact with.
(15:48):
So somebody may have left somebody's office.
Now they're angry, like you talked about, and you're next up.
And so your goal is, we have a purpose here, but now you're angry. What is it?
What do I need to do to help offset that anger and being able to pick up on that.
So I think transitions are important.
So if we are are in leadership roles and if we're leading people, you said it's important to
(16:09):
recognize that, but can you tease that out a little bit more?
Because I think it's a lot more important to be able to transition from one thing to the next thing.
Richard (16:17):
Yeah, absolutely. It's almost like your warmup. Imagine you're an athlete.
You don't just turn up and run the hundred meters.
You warm up for it.
And your transition is your preparation for that next meeting.
We tend to think about the meeting itself, but not the things that bracket the meeting. So it's massively important.
And every experience that we have, even the ones that we think are fairly inconsequential, have
(16:37):
an impact on our emotions, our energy, and our body language.
So taking a few moments to register that is really, really important.
And a lot of the time, we're operating what's called system one of the brain.
System one is really your stress response.
And when we're there, we're less emotionally intelligent enough, and we'll come away think,
well, all I said was this, and they flew off the handle.
(16:59):
How we say, and in those moments, we're not registering the impact we're having, and things
don't come across in the way that we want them to.
Registering when system one's at play is really, really important.
And there are simple things we can do. We've mentioned breathing.
It can be things like noticing your feet touching the ground.
It can be even just turning your head to one side and just scanning the room for a few moments
(17:20):
before you go into the next meeting.
What they do is they trigger what's called the parasympathetic nervous system.
So in other words, they send messages back to the brain that say, it's over, the difficult situation's over, you can relax.
And so even if we've only got a few seconds, it's taking the edge off that experience a little bit.
So it's at least mitigating against it.
So really, really important, worst case scenario.
(17:42):
And again, this, you know, this depends upon the nature of the relationship we've got with somebody
when we're in that next meeting, maybe even acknowledging what we're feeling if it's somebody
we know a little bit, saying, actually, I apologize, I've just had a really difficult meeting.
And you might not go into the details of the meeting, but you're putting it out there.
And even that is acknowledging the dynamics that are in the room.
(18:02):
And sometimes that can be a great way of putting people at ease because you're being honest.
Tim (18:07):
That's a great point to being able to be vulnerable on yourself and express, you know, hey,
I did have a difficult time and being able to be humble.
But I want to go to something that you said earlier, which you talked about being authentic,
where, you know, people think charisma may be putting on a show or an act, and how do we really
develop more authentic pieces of us and if we've never been intentional about our behavior or
(18:32):
actions, and even to develop a more authentic self, or maybe ourselves aren't as pleasant as
it needs to be, and we're working on that.
How do we overcome the fakeness of trying to be more authentic? If that makes sense.
Richard (18:46):
Yeah, yeah. I think most of us can see through that inauthenticity. Can't wait.
You see it with politicians quite a lot.
They've sort of had that media training, but we see through, and actually it works against them.
So I think being authentic is really, really important.
But it's actually something that a lot of people feel uncomfortable about.
And often I work with people in business who very accomplished at what they do, but they talk about imposter syndrome.
(19:10):
They're in a role where they're doing very well, but they're expecting that tap on the shoulder
that says, actually, you shouldn't be here.
And one of the reasons for that, it's not the only reason, but one of the reasons for that is
because actually we're not showing our uniqueness.
And this is, you know, this is humors across the board that we tend to hide away the parts of
ourselves that we even think aren't acceptable or don't fit into the environment that we're in.
(19:33):
And we almost run the risk of becoming a cookie cutter version of everybody else.
And so starting to experiment with celebrating our uniqueness is a really important part of
the work that I do.
It's getting people to, yes, acknowledge parts that you can brush up on and polish, but also
say, actually, this is who I am at my core and I'm comfortable with that.
(19:55):
And if that's something you haven't done, suddenly going from 0 to 100 is quite scary.
So the kind of things that I talk to people about is doing little micro experiments and doing those repeatedly and incrementally.
So it might be, rather than having a superficial conversation with somebody on the morning,
Monday morning about what you did the weekend, share something that actually matters to you, something that.
(20:18):
That you love doing, even if it's a little bit quirky or something that really gets you goat.
Giving something to somebody that's actually real and testing the water.
And a lot of time you'll be surprised.
People actually either react in a positive way or at the very least, they show curiosity for
what it is that we share with them.
And actually when we do that, that feeds our confidence and we can do that again and we can
(20:43):
maybe do a little bit more next time.
And so over time, we're starting to be a truer version of who we are.
And that's not to say that we don't adapt when we go into work compared to how we are at home.
But the closer we can be to being one version of ourselves, the more authentic we're going to be.
But also we're going to do our best work and we're actually going to also develop our own personal brand.
(21:04):
People are going to know what we stand for because we stand out from the crowd.
And that's really, really important in terms of the work that I do as well.
What is your personal brand?
Tim (21:11):
That's a great, that's a great point.
You know, what is your personal brand?
And you know, how do you stand out?
And being vulnerable, again, this, I think this goes back to being vulnerable to be yourself.
And that's really hard, I think, for a lot of people to do, especially in high stakes environments,
if, if we're not being taught that at an earlier age, I think.
In your experience, how do you find that? Is it.
(21:33):
Do you find one demographic harder to work with than another when it comes to being able to
embrace our authenticity, like who we are as people and overcoming imposter syndrome?
Richard (21:44):
Yeah, I think it's challenging different demographics.
But I do a lot of work with women in business and I think women find this really tough, particularly
as they get higher up the ladder, that they kind of get caught between two stalls quite often.
They don't want to come across as being a soft touch and they don't want to come across as being
just like the men or even a more exaggerated version of the men that they encounter.
(22:08):
And so they're left grappling with which parts themselves are actually okay to share.
And I think Hillary Clinton touched on this when she was vying to become president.
She talks about, you know, I get vilified if I show my feminine side.
I get vilified if I try and be more assertive.
What do you want me to be?
So I think lots of people have that, but I think particularly women, as they sort of get Higher
(22:30):
up the ladder, really grapple with that.
So again, part of the work that I do is really getting people to do these small experiments.
So we'll just give people a little bit of who you are, see how they react, get more comfortable
with it, try it with friends and family, get comfortable doing it there, and then maybe just
do a little bit in a more exposed situation.
But the more you expose yourself to vulnerability, a lot of the time actually you get that positive
(22:54):
feedback that says it's okay to be like that.
And actually you're known for that.
You stand out for being like that.
But very, very difficult because of how society's set up.
Tim (23:04):
Yeah, it's kind of. It reminds me of how do you build trust? Well, you got it.
You got to trust people.
It kind of sounds kind of counterintuitive, right?
Like, how do you build trust?
Well, you got to trust people.
Well, I don't trust people.
Richard (23:17):
Exactly.
Tim (23:18):
How do you be authentic?
Well, share a little bit of party yourself and that's scary. Yeah, yeah. And so I would.
I would say, how can we, I know you mentioned, share a little part of something that that's more about yourself.
But what is something that we can do internally that is not in a public setting?
(23:39):
Because maybe there are people who are like, you know what, Richard, I don't know who I am.
Like, I pretended to be somebody else for so many years.
I don't know who I am.
What can I do to figure out who I am?
Richard (23:50):
Yeah, yeah. Really interesting question.
I think one of the important things that will give us a clear indication of who we are and what's
important to us is to register our feelings.
It goes back to emotional intelligence.
And a lot of the time, again, because we're busy, we don't tend to reflect on our experiences.
And one of the things that I often talk about with clients is put a bit of time aside at the
(24:12):
end of the day to reflect on your experiences.
It only has to be sort of 10 or 15 minutes.
Get a pen and pad and think back on the different things that happened that day and the emotional
impact they've had on you.
Which things have actually made you feel good, which things have made you feel energized.
And that will give you some indication of what's important to you.
And the clearer you get on that, you'll start to recognize themes and patterns.
(24:35):
And that will tell you what are the things I need to protect, what are the things that actually
are important to me that I need to make non negotiable.
And the More you sort of file away at it, the clearer view you get on how it is that you want to shape your world.
And that will also give you a clear view on where you're adding value.
Because quite often we get energized by, excuse me, by being creative, by achieving things, by helping people.
(25:00):
And the clearer we become on that, we start to seek those opportunities out.
And it also gives us a sense of self that actually, I'm somebody who helps people or I'm somebody
who gives people a bit of a lift when I speak to them.
That's part of who I am.
And all the research shows that actually when we start to register positive quality in ourselves, we.
We gravitate towards them more.
(25:22):
Doing that's really, really important because so often when.
When we're operating at a fast pace, we don't do that.
We're on the treadmill again. We're objectifying things.
We're thinking about, what have I got to do next? Rather, how was that?
Tim (25:34):
Yeah, no, that's a very interesting take on it because from our conversation, I've.
I've taken away a couple things, is slow down, right?
Slow down and be more in tune with emotions and become more emotionally intelligent of your
emotions and other people's emotions.
And then be authentic of who you are and figure out who you are.
(25:56):
Because I think that resonates more with anything else. Right.
And I think that's what you're saying.
Richard (26:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, for most people, you don't get that single light bulb moment.
You think, ah, I know who I am. It comes over time.
But the more you whittle away at it and you start to define things, the more it reveals other
things that are important to you and are important part of what your brand is as well.
Tim (26:17):
Those are all great points. So you just.
I'm looking at your book right now, so I noticed as we're having this conversation, it's a great
outline of the reason why you should read Richard's book Charisma Unlocked the Science and Strategy
to captivate, influence and succeed in business.
So from just this little bit of our interaction together. Right. Those are.
(26:41):
There are tons of nuggets that are in this book.
So what drove you to be like, you know what?
I have to write this.
I have to get this book out to people.
Richard (26:50):
A few reasons, really. I guess the main reason is because the topics come up in so many of the
coaching and the therapy sessions that I have with people.
And people want to learn about this stuff.
You know, they want to be the best version of themselves.
And so, you know, it's really the accumulation of 20 years of experience of working with people
and doing research on this topic. And it's.
(27:12):
And it's so important because it really does make a difference.
It's all well and good being accomplished at what you do for a career, but actually, whatever
you do, your connections with people make the fundamental difference.
The things that make you stand out there are the things that will make you rise the ladder,
if that's what you want to do.
Tim (27:29):
Points. So I usually leave the last word up to my guest.
And is there anything that we haven't talked about that you're like, you know what?
We haven't talked about this at all.
And I really want to talk about this one thing.
So what is that one thing that you want to talk about that we haven't talked about already?
Richard (27:46):
Interesting question. I think it's sort of.
It's an offshoot of some of the things that we have spoken about.
It's really this idea of psychological safety.
So we spoke a little bit earlier about setting intentions for how you want to present in a meeting
and the energy you want to create.
But the biggest thing that facilitates connection is promoting psychological safety.
(28:06):
So, in other words, what can I do to put somebody at ease and let them know that actually I'm interested?
I'm not going to close them down.
Even if I've got a difference of opinion, I'm going to show respect and curiosity for their position.
So that's everything from the kind of questions that we ask all the way through to how we pace
the conversation and how we use our body language.
(28:29):
So next time you go into a conversation with somebody, think about what can I do to give them
reassurances that I'm interested in what they've got to say?
And that's a huge area.
But just, again, even just setting that intention can make such a difference to the act.
Tim (28:44):
What do you say to people who don't believe in psychological safety?
Because I had a conversation with somebody a little bit over a year ago, and I said, hey, what
about as leaders, we need to set psychological safety for people to voice their opinions, for people to. To speak out.
And part of the conversation was as well, you're a leader, you should just naturally be okay
(29:06):
not being okay and work through it.
So what do you say to people who say, well, psychological safety is not really a thing.
How do we overcome those people?
Richard (29:15):
Well, I think if you're in an organization, the biggest thing is look at the stats, look at
the stats, the number of people that leave your organizations, the number of people that take
time off sick, and maybe benchmark your organization against similar organizations within, within your industry.
Because in, in most industries, the, the most innovative companies are the ones that are the most successful.
(29:38):
Actually, psychological safety is really, really important for promoting that sense of creativity. Creativity is about experimentation.
And if you're worried that you're going to get shouted down or punished, you're not going to
speak up with new ideas, you're not going to speak up when you don't understand or you've made a mistake.
So there are lots of reasons why it's important.
And if, and if you're somebody who's a skeptic about that, maybe do an experiment with, with
(30:00):
one team within your organization, try a different approach with them and just see if the data backs that up.
And I'm pretty sure it will.
Tim (30:08):
No, absolutely. I'm a big fan of making sure that everyone has a voice and everyone speaks up and share theirs mind.
Because I don't want to leave any ideas on the table like anything that I didn't hear about
or somebody else needs to hear.
Those need to come out and thinking about charismatic leaders and you know, the topic of charisma,
you know, I think about the leaders that I look up to and I always felt always comfortable.
(30:34):
Like I think that's a lack of a better word, but comfortable to be around them, comfortable
to share ideas, comfortable to talk.
And then I felt like I was heard.
And then when they left, I always felt like, man, that person was really cool to be around.
And those are things that I aspire to live up to in any interaction I have is hopefully one,
(30:55):
not boring and two, that people walk away and go, man, you know what?
I really enjoy talking to that person and I want to meet them again.
Richard (31:02):
Exactly. So they promote your brand, but also it creates a ripple effect in the world, isn't it?
People come away feeling good and they hopefully pay that forward.
Tim (31:10):
Absolutely. So if you're watching this right now and listening this on the radio, if you want
to hear more, more from Richard, I'm gonna post in the comments down below in the description
all the ways that you can find Richard.
I'm gonna leave links to his books, I'm gonna leave links to his website and how you can get
a hold of them and you can reach out and talk to him.
So Richard, I really appreciate you being on the show and thanks for stopping by, absolute pleasure. Thanks Tim, as always.
Tim Staton (31:35):
Thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favorite review if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, and hit all
the bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode,
(31:56):
you'll be alerted, please go ahead and do.
Tim (31:58):
All that before you go.
Tim Staton (31:59):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by.
Tim (32:11):
I'm Tim Staton.
Tim Staton (32:12):
Staten the Obvious.
Tim (32:33):
Sam.
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