Feeling Stuck? Build Your Future Self Now!

Episode Transcript
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Tim Staton (00:02):
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to Great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to Great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.

Disclaimer (00:25):
And a quick disclaimer, this show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer.
Otherwise, does not necessarily constitute an reply, the endorsement of anyone that I employed
by or favors in the The views are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not
necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.

Tim Staton (00:36):
Hey, welcome to the encore of the live lunch that we had.
If you missed it, now we're having it available for you to check out. Quick question for you.
Raise your hand if you've ever said, I'll start that habit tomorrow when life slows down, or
I'll take that risk when I feel ready.
I'll become that version of me

(01:03):
someday. Here's the Truth Bomb by Dr. Benjamin Hardy.
Your future self isn't waiting for someday. They're already alive.
They're already wiser, braver, more generous, and curious.
But they're also furious that you keep hitting the snooze button on their life.
Join us mid-conversation with this powerhouse panel.
We're diving deep into Be youe Future Self Now, the exact playbook for how lifelong learners
become the people they can't wait.

Bobbie Felder (01:30):
To wake up as tomorrow.

Tim Staton (01:30):
And to join us for our discussion today, we have Ms.
Pam Koppelmann, and she is the Associate Vice President of Institutional Compliance at Norwich
University, a private sector military college in Northfield, Vermont.
And she began her role in 2023 after a distinguished 21-year career in the United States Army.
So Pam, welcome to the show.

Pam Koppelmann (01:49):
Thank you, happy to be here.

Tim Staton (01:50):
And then we also have Bobbie Felder, who is a major in the Connecticut Army National Guard.
And she is pursuing her doctorate degree in Organizational Management and Change with Leadership
from the University of Southern California.
So Bobbie, welcome to the show as well.
Hey, so I'm glad that we're here to talk about this book.
And my first question for you, actually, I'm going to change it up a little bit because we're live. What did you prefer?

(02:14):
Which did you like best about the book?
Did you like the threats or did you like the truths better?
And you could chime in at whoever wants to take that one first.

Okay, well, I'll start, Pam.
I think we talked about Threats was the part that I liked the best because it kind of put things
in perspective and made it real for you, or for me at least while reading it, specifically threat number one around hope.
And there's a mountain of things we can dive into, but hope is pretty much what the human dynamic

(02:48):
needs to stay connected to the present moment.
So for me, hope that thread of hope was definitely the one that resonated the most.

Yeah, I would like to say that I too found, I've kind of resonated with the threats a little bit more.
And I think it's because I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt with some of those
threats, and I could identify with them more so than the truce because I'm not there yet.

Tim Staton (03:13):
So let's talk about the first threat, and that's threat number one, which is without hope
in your future, your present loses meaning.

And oftentimes we can get lost in.

Tim Staton (03:26):
The day to day minutia of what we have going on in our life.
You know, we wake up, we do the same thing every single day.
It's like rinse and repeat. Right.
So where did you find most connecting about this threat into your current life?

Yeah, I'll start. So being in the military, you know, or probably just anywhere, I would say
that there was always this saying that prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
And before, you know, hope is not a plan. Right.
And I would say that this, this, you know, portion of the book kind of talked about that like
hope is, is kind of a plan because you need to be kind of proactive in it and you have to put stuff into it.

(04:02):
It's not just, what is it?
A wishful thinking, I think is what it kind of alludes to a little bit.
And I would say that hope, like in my own life though, is, you know, just kind of thinking about
like, you know, a better, a better life for my, not only myself, but for my family.
And so it's kind of.

(04:23):
Putting a bigger perspective on it.
It's not just about me. It's about my family.
It's about my organization, friends, my community, all of, all of those areas.
And so I don't know, I just, I kind of, you know, I did chuckle with this, you know, because
whenever I was reading it, because of just that military mentality about prepare for the worst
and hope for the best, because I felt like when people said that they were, it's just because
there was no plan, there was no thought or proactiveness put behind it.

(04:46):
They were just, you know, really being.

Tim Staton (04:53):
Pessimistic about the whole process, it was usually going into a planning operation. Bobbie, what about you?

Yeah, I definitely agree with Pam.
I think for me, what resonated the most about this threat is the emphasis on setting clear goals
and having a clear vision so that the hope that you have is physically geared towards something
without that hope, without that clear vision being set.
It's really, really hard to stay motivated and continue to pursue something.

(05:19):
Having that hope aligned with clear goals.

Like a vision that you can accurately.

Helps when the days get rough and, you know, you're bogged down in the details.
If you have that clear vision, you can kind of pop your head up and say, oh, yeah, that's, that's the goal. That's the vision. And keep going on.
So the hope is important to have.
But I think what's more important is to have that, those goals connected to that hope clearly
laid out so that without that plan, there's, there's really this kind of.

(05:47):
Sense of being lost could be.

Tim Staton (05:47):
And so those goals really resonated with me. Yeah.
And when we when he talks about goals in this book, I really like how he ties them to our future
selves and he really talks about that vision.
And so I kind of want to go to that threat of not having that vision real quick because we just touched on that.
And he says, you know, the clearer you have a vision of what your future looks like, the more

(06:08):
realistic it is that you're going to be able to achieve it.
And I see myself doing that all the time now, as I'm getting ready to transition into retirement,
what do I want my future self to be?
What does that look like?
The things that you do on a day-to-day basis that kind of get you there.
But if you're younger, you might not necessarily understand what your future self looks like.

(06:30):
And so with that vision, I have the question for both of you, because I know I didn't really
have a vision of what my future self would be.
20 something years ago.

That's not something that I really had.

To just kind of did the day.

Tim Staton (06:43):
In, day out and follow the checklist that was prescribed to me. So what about y'all?
Do y'all have like a vision of what you envisioned yourself to be 20 years ago and 20 years from now?

I can chime in and say absolutely not. 20 years ago, I did not have a vision of what Bobby 20
years later would look like.
I didn't really start looking at
anything that resembled visions or goals, probably until right after college.
And I'm like, you finish up college and you're like, okay, now what do I want to do when I grow up?

(07:16):
And so there's kind of inches inching toward a goal, short-term goals and long-term goals.
But I would even say now, I'm still thinking, what do I want to do when I grow up?
But I think having these small goals that are aligned with something Or what you, how you see

(07:37):
yourself in the future helps, help you, helps you continue to like navigate and push forward.
So 20 years ago, no, but I think now being a little bit of an adult, I can say there's increments of time.
So five years from now I can see what a Bobbie will look like and want.
And so I aligned some goals toward that.
But 20 years ago, absolutely not.
But I think I have a mindset that will continue to help.

Progress and identify what that vision of.

Future future Bobbie looks like for sure.
So I would like to add that.

Similar to Bobbie, I did not whenever coming out of college, I still wasn't there yet.
I did not have those visions and goals.
It probably didn't happen until I became a field grade officer in the army.
Whenever like you go to Ile and you start learning about those more operational and strategic
level ways of thinking and not the tactical.
And that's probably whenever I kind of started developing a better sense of, you know, a future

(08:30):
self, what am, you know, what am I gonna do?
Because a lot of that, you know, honestly, you know, because I was having a bit of an identity
crisis at that time in my life, because I identified myself as my work.
And so it was like, what am I gonna do that's gonna help my organization?
Um, I don't know if that's good or bad.
And then secondly, I like, it really kind of came back to me again, you know, to kind of focus

(08:50):
on those visions and goals as I started preparing for retirement, kind of like you mentioned,
and really thinking about what my future self is going to be.
Be, especially as I was leaving behind an identity of myself in the military.

Tim Staton (09:04):
Yeah. And with those future goals that we have in mind and that we see them, and he says, the
more clearly you can see it and describe it, the more connected you're going to be to it.
Now, after having read this, I went back and I started thinking about that, like, oh, that kind of makes sense.
If you can clearly see it.
And then I was doing some research and saw that some people develop a little one minute or two

(09:29):
minute video of what they want their future to look like.
And then they watch it and they go, oh yeah, this is exactly what I want my future to look like.
So the things I do today need to make sure it delivers on that.
Is that something that y'all have encountered or y'all do in your own life?

It's not something that I've done.
Mine's a little more, I guess, abstract. It's in my head.
And I guess, because I'm not going to lie, I'm my own worst enemy.
I'm my own biggest threat.
When it comes to this.

So sometimes, and I guess that's kind of where some of the truths come.

In, but I, if I put it down on paper or I document it, then it's real. Does that make sense?

Tim Staton (10:07):
Yep.

And so I just kind of keep it in my head and sometimes don't even share it with people because
again, I'm afraid of failure, but you can't get to your future self without a little failure.

I would say that I don't think I've ever kind of recorded a video like, depicting my goals,
but I've definitely sat down and written out, you know, three year plan, five year plan, specifically
in my career and like, okay, what positions, what assignments do I want and why?
Uh, you know, the loose timeline associated with it because there's kind of this structure and

(10:39):
path that officers can follow in the military.
But I think writing it down helped make the goal more real, helped me stay connected to it.
So not necessarily recording, you know, the video of me saying what my future self might look
like, but I definitely have written down three, three to five year plans of what I want to do,
you know, in the military and then also with my education, you know, so writing it down definitely makes it more real.

(11:03):
But I also agree with Pam where, you know, you once, once you write it down, once you document it, it's real.
And, you know, the, the feeling of, man, if I fail, that, that kind of sets in.
And so it's, it's tough to continue to navigate that, but I think writing it down in some fashion
or document, it helps stay connected to it, but it just, you know, kind of gives you that.

Oh man, this is really real.
I gotta follow through on it.
So can I just add one?

So I just wanted to add that.

Like, so when I was in the military, the three to five year plans that we were kind of required
to do, I did that, but I would say that that was purely on a professional level.
Even though they encourage you to put personal things in there, I didn't.
So I was only ever looking at my future self from a professional standpoint, not holistically.

(11:49):
So I think that that's where like, I don't even think it's just a me thing.

I think that's where sometimes people, you.

Know, collectively struggle is with they only focus on one area of their life and not all of it.

Tim Staton (12:03):
Well, I would add in, so that goes back to who we are programmed to believe who we think we are, right?
Because even with folks in the military, you are a soldier, and that is your identity, right?
But that's not who you were born, right?
You were born Pam and Bobby, and then of course me, Tim, right?
That's who we were born.

(12:24):
And then we grew up and then we assumed a different identity.
And with that identity came with, oh, you got to do these things.
That's how you have to act.
That's how you have to prepare.
And it neglects a lot of parts of who we are as people.
And it's just kind of nature of the business.
And that's why I kind of want to talk about the reactive narrative that we talk about our past

(12:45):
with that, because oftentimes we make self limiting statements that limit our future.

And that's a huge threat, right?
Like, well, I could ever do this.

Tim Staton (12:56):
Because I didn't do X, Y and Z, or I didn't do this because I didn't have the opportunity to
do X, Y and Z.
Or you understand the struggles I went through or the hardships I went through.
So I'll never be able to do, you know, whatever it is to the trajectory it is on that.
So how do we combat that threat?

That one's hard to combat.
And it's I would say, you know, like again, it's still a threat.

To me today, and it requires a.

Lot of self-awareness and self-reflection and just kind of, you know, sometimes it's getting over yourself.
And that is easier said than done sometimes.

I definitely agree. I think, you know, if you're, you know, being in the military, you're kind
of boxed into this persona or this identity that you assume, you know, when you join.
And it's very easy to lose yourself in that.
But, you know, because of, you know, the level of patriotism or reasons why we join, it's easy
to feel like that's okay.
And so when whatever the moment is for you, you take a step back and say, okay, this is a part

(13:53):
of me, not my identity.
Who am I for real?
And what kind of goals can I set and be clear on to align more with who I was born to be?
When that happens, I think it's an opportunity for growth, for sure.
But it's very hard to get there because we're so programmed societally to be identified with this part of you.

(14:15):
In our case, it's being in the military, that career goal.
But I agree with you, Pam.
Spend a lot of time setting goals, you know, aligned with the career, the professional path,
and, you know, more recently decided to try to do more self development, personal development
on, you know, the personal side and, you know, figure out navigating who Bobbie is outside of

(14:36):
the military and exploring those things.
And it turns out a lot of my personal goals are very aligned with some of, you know, very goals
around leadership and wanting to help people and,
you know, be a guiding light for, for, you know, younger generations.
Fortunately, it aligns, but, you know, it's, it is tough to pull yourself out of that prescribed
identity, if you will, being in the military or some other professional path.

Tim Staton (14:59):
If for everybody watching this right now, if, if there's something that resonates with you that
we're talking about, go ahead and drop it in the chat and then we'll read it out and we'll talk about it.
If you have a question, we'll also ask that as well.
Now, when we talked about the, the parts of us, right, that we want to overcome, and it's super
hard, I would also add too, It's not just about the military because how often do you go places

(15:22):
and somebody, what's like one of the first questions that somebody asks you for small talk, right?
It's, Hey, what do you do? Pam, go ahead.

No. So whenever we were joining in, preparing for this session today, you did a quick introduction
and said, sorry about that.
I was getting a phone call.
Um, it was, you said, oh, Pam, this is Bobbie, Bobbie, this is Pam.
And then, and then you stepped away for just a quick second.
And then I was like, oh, hey, Bobbie.
So I'm like, I'm like, so what do you do?

(15:51):
So again, but you're absolutely right.
It's like, what do you do?
I mean, and I think people have a habit because I do too, of saying immediately what your profession is.
And then maybe you'll be like, oh, and I'm also maybe a hobbyist of there, I'm a mother, I'm a father.
Those things don't come up until later in the conversation.

Tim Staton (16:09):
Yeah, and it's a huge threat because it's also tying you to identity and oftentimes it's drawing you back.
Into a past, right into a narrative, maybe, because how many times do you.

Go home and somebody, you know, for.

Tim Staton (16:23):
Us that don't necessarily live where our home is, and then you go back somewhere and you meet
somebody that you grew up with.
And it's like for them, their version of you stopped like at that point.
And then the version of you that showed up is different.
And it's also the same for deployments, you know, when you deploy right, that version of you
that left your family while you were there stopped.

And there's a narrative there.

Tim Staton (16:48):
And then when you come back, a whole year has passed.
And the same is the same for how you view your family.
Is that version of them?
That's the version that you're thinking of, you know, when you left.
And so when we think about planning for our future selves and being that future self now, I
think about our environments and that's threat number three, right?
Is being unaware of your environment creates a random evolution.

(17:10):
And I really like this chapter a lot and this threat a lot.
Because it really talks about, you know, one, how people treat you and how you let people treat
you based on, on who you surround yourself with.
I know Pam, you work at a college and a university, so you could probably see this a little
bit better than other folks.

(17:30):
And Bobbie, I'll get to you too, on this one.
I want to know what you think.
But how do you see this play out?

So if I recall, so chapter or number three or threat number three was, you know, kind of about
the self fulfilling prophecies and stuff. So, right.
You know, I would say that, you know, because I was reflecting a little bit on the whole book,
you know, leading in today, that I think that I'm in an environment where I see young, young

(17:56):
adults who are students who are actually, you know, being their future self now, especially
at a senior military college, because they are really thinking about what their future is going
to be and apply, trying to, you know, apply that to the now.
And I mean, honestly, I think it's, I think I'm in a unique environment in that particular aspect

(18:19):
as it relates to threat number three.
And so I would say that, like, I don't see that as much as I would in some other professions,
like maybe if I worked in healthcare or, you know, some other, you know, industry.
But I think because of the nature of where I work in higher education, that it's a little skewed.

Tim Staton (18:41):
Okay. And Bobbie?

No, I think, I think the, the environment and but the people who are around me and my peers
in particular shapes how we view our future selves.
Definitely, especially at this moment in my career, the main five people that I spend my time
with on a professional level are like my peers.
So we're all in the grind together talking about what our future looks like.

(19:06):
So that's inherently shaping our future selves with whatever military education that we have
to get through, whatever waypoint or mile marker in our careers we have to get through what
we have to to get there.
We're all talking about it, discussing it, you know, kind of try to develop this shared understanding of it.
That's inherently shaping, you know, my future self for sure.

(19:26):
And, you know, the goals that, you know, we, I have and, you know, I tend to talk about with
my peers always, you know, shapes my future self.
So it's something that happens unconsciously because, you know, it's just the environment that I'm in.
But I would say, you know, it's, it's a, an awareness that I have.

(19:50):
But it happens so unconsciously.

It's like a weird dichotomy.

I know what I have to do.
I know what my future goals are, but it just so happens unconsciously because I'm always talking
about it with my peers that it's just shaping my future self, if you will, unintentionally.
But that's the professional side.
But when looking at the personal side, I have some personal goals and I have a twin sister who
I spend a lot of time talking to pretty much every day.

(20:16):
And that also shapes the personal side of me.
So this idea that your environment shapes your goals and your future self, and then being either
being aware of it or unaware of it is truly something that resonates on both ends of the spectrum for me.

Tim Staton (20:26):
Yeah. And I kind of expected your answers to be that way because, you know, one, you know, you're
either a veteran or have served, and that's like less than 1% of the total society that we live in right now.
So those standards are already high.
So you're already like in less than 1%.
And then working at a college that enlists those people and get those people to join, you know,

(20:48):
the military also have really high standards.
So everyone there is, is around the same effect, right?
Everyone's there trying to achieve the same goals and moving each other forward.
And that's where the Pygmalion effect comes into that, right?
Because even at the university, they know, okay, you're here because you want to be an officer.

(21:08):
We're going to train you to be an officer.

Or, you know, your parents said you.

Tim Staton (21:15):
Had to go here anyway, because you.

Had to do it right.

Tim Staton (21:15):
But either way, you're still treated differently.
And, and I, and I've said this before, like what's the difference between an 18 year old in
college and an 18 year old private is the expectation of performance on those two people groups.
They're, they're essentially the same, but the expectation and the requirement is drastically different.
And so how they get treated is how they perform.

(21:36):
And so I was just curious, you know, how often do you see that play out throughout the course
of the day and Do you think about that when you plan for yourself for the future?

Yeah, absolutely. Again, the expectation of an individual, my age grade rank in my organization
is X, Y, and Z.
And so because I am in this kind of population of people that has this expectation, I see that
expectation kind of influencing behaviors, influencing performance in others around me, including myself.

(22:11):
So absolutely, the Pygmalion Effect is is alive and well amongst myself and my peers.
And I see it happening, you know, daily, physically, and then through conversations, you know,
when we discuss what's happened in our worlds.
So absolutely, I definitely see that within my peers in my professional life, in my personal
life with folks that are not in the military, but around my age, obviously the expectations

(22:33):
are a little bit different, but sort of the idea of progressing in your career, progressing,
you know, in your personal life, some of those Societal expectations still exist just in a different
version for the folks that aren't in the military, but absolutely, I think behavior, performance
is definitely shaped by this effect.

Yeah, I'll just agree with that.
Again, it's the, you know, the Corps of Cadets at Norwich University, right?
You know, they're, they've got, they have a, there's like military standards and then there's
like Corps of Cadets standards.
And it really does shape them, and not just because of the standard, but just, you know, their
peers, you know, whether they're a freshman, you know, they call that a Rook at Norwich University.

(23:15):
Or if they're a senior, it's again, they're all like feeding off of each other and those general expectations in the environment. And it really does.
And I would say that even though most of these students that are in the Corps of Cadets go on
to be officers in one of our, you know, services, not all of them do.
And again, it's because they're there for that environment to shape them to be a better leader

(23:40):
in whatever industry that they choose to go into after. After, after college.
And that, I mean, like, I have the, you know, the utmost respect for an individual that, I'm
not going to say he puts themselves through, but kind of sort of puts himself through that rigorous
environment at a senior military college and not to join the military, you know, again, because

(24:01):
it, again, a lot of their curriculum, I wouldn't say the curriculum, the, the events that they
do is very focused on the military.
But again, it, it does absolutely shaped them, whether they're going into, you know, some other
type of government service, the military, or into the healthcare industry.
And so I think, I think it does, it makes them, it makes them.

Tim Staton (24:22):
No, absolutely. And one thing that the author didn't touch on, but kind of alluded to, was the
opposite of the Pygmalion Effect, which is the Golem Effect.
And that is, you know, if you, so if you don't know what a Golem is, I'll kind of like explain
the difference between like a Pygmalion and a, and a Golem.

(24:42):
It originates from a Greek mythology where this guy, he built a statue and he was called Pygmalion
and he fell in love with it and he started talking to it and treating it like it was a human being.
And then it became alive because of how it was treated, kind of like a Pinocchio thing.
Golem is the same thing.
It's a clay creature that's sculpted and molded, but takes the form of all of the negative and

(25:04):
imperfections of the sculptor, right?
And so oftentimes we have people that we work with with or people that.

We serve with that we automatically kind.

Tim Staton (25:13):
Of write off and we treat them a certain way.
Because we think that, oh, you know, well, you're just not performing, you're just not a high
performer, you just don't get it.
You know, yeah, you're trying to, you know, put yourself in this arena, but you just don't quite fit.
So I'm going to treat you this way.
Then they start behaving the exact same way they're being treated.
And it's the opposite effect of the Pygmalion effect.
And I think it's a very important, I kind of understand why he didn't put that in because he's on the positive side.

(25:38):
But if we don't understand that, because if we want to plan our future self and be our future
self, if we're trying to put ourselves in different spheres of influence where we can have better
people around us, and not necessarily better, but a different elevation of people around us,
and we don't necessarily fit that mold yet because we're not there, we need to be cognizant

(25:59):
of that bias that we have inside of ourselves to do that.
So I just kind of want to bring that up there for a second because it's important to highlight
the difference between the two.
So the other thing he talks about in the book is when we talked about goals and he talks about
your vision, but he also talks about urgent battles are the things that keeping us stuck right from doing that.

(26:20):
And he also has a great quote in there where it talks about how it's not having a lofty goal
that keeps us from achieving that goal.
It's locking on to a lesser goal that we know that we can really gets us stuck there. Right.
And it often doesn't lead to where we want to go.

So how often, I know I do.

Tim Staton (26:42):
It all the day, all the time.
Like I'm like on the hamster wheel rolling, knocking out all these like urgent tasks, but they're
not necessarily the right tasks to get me to where I need to go.
What do y'all think about that?

That is the story of my life sometimes.
I'm like, I am running a hundred miles now on a treadmill and I get off at the same place that
I started, but I do try to
refocus myself whenever I sometimes not all the time, but sometimes I can catch myself and then
I will like stop and I will look at all the things and I will reprioritize, but it's not always

(27:17):
conscious, you know, when it's happening, it's not until the end of the day whenever I'm doing
my hour drive home and I'm doing the self reflection on like, what did I accomplish today?
And I'm like, absolutely nothing.
Or I did, but again, it's like all these itty bitty fires.
Um, so in that chapter, I think that was the chapter where, he talked about the, Professor that
took the bucket with the pebbles and the rocks.

(27:38):
And then you can't fit it all when you put all the pebbles in there.
But if you put all the big rocks in and then fill it in with the pebbles.
So I thought that that analogy was fantastic because I was like, that was really kind of hit home with me.
And I was like, oh, I need to do this more often.
And I think I need to be a little more intentional, kind of like the book says, be a little
intentional about being your future self.

(27:59):
And so, but no, I do, this one really kind of, you know, hit home with me.

And I try not for it to.

Be the story of my life of being on that treadmill forever.

I'm right there with you, Pam.
Definitely story of my life, that constant hamster wheel and you're kind of in the weeds dealing
with the immediate urgent things.
And sometimes it's very tough to pop your head up out of that and kind of take a look out to
survey where you are with long-term goals.
And sometimes, you know, like you said, it doesn't happen unless we put some intentional effort

(28:36):
into popping up out of it.
But other times it's kind of forced on us, right, through some series of events where they're
unfortunate or, you know, something that just grabs your attention where you're like, oh, shoot,
I need to actually pull out and figure out where I'm at with my bigger goals or, you know, do
I need to start extending those goals?
And I've, I've had plenty of opportunities throughout my career where I've been kind of in the
weeds getting things done, you know, those five 25 meter target targets, and then that 300 meter target

(29:04):
all of a sudden comes right square in your face and it's a now five meter target.
You're like, oh wow, that came up on me real fast.
So if you're not intentional, you might get hit with one of those.
But I certainly understand the struggle, right?
Do the thing in front of you and knock it out because of those quick dopamine rushes.
But the importance of that long term looking out, kind of surveying to see where you are and
doing that intentionally, that's tough.

(29:25):
And unfortunately for me, those things that have zoomed up on me really quickly haven't been that bad.
But I think for me, the thing that I've experienced a lot is my family saying, Hey, hey, get out of the weeds. Look, remember that thing.
And that's been helpful for me to be intentional about coming out of the weeds and looking up
to stay focused on those long term, you know, thousand meter targets, if you will.

(29:47):
But definitely understand that struggle.

So can I ask a question real quick?
So just of the group, and I know Tim, you're the host, but it just made me think, so would you
consider, because as you were talking, it made me think, would you consider consider those small
little fires or the little pebbles from the analogy, like being reactive in the bigger rocks,
the medium and larger rocks being more of the proactive.

I think it can be a combination, right?
Because some of those little rocks can be necessary, like parts of a past long-term goal that
are now on you and you have to complete them.
But I think if more of those tiny pebbles are reactive, then yeah, you lose sight on being as
proactive as you could have been.
So it's really important to, I think, be intentional about what tiny pebbles you focus on, because

(30:36):
those tiny pebbles are a trickle of a past long-term goal that you're just coming up on.
But I would say a lot of the times, you know, those reactive tiny pebbles pull and steal your
attention away from those, those more proactive big rocks that, you know, we should be looking at.
So again, my answer is probably a little wishy-washy, but I think it's important to determine
and have some discernment on how much time you spend on those tiny pebbles, how often the tiny

(31:00):
pebbles are reactive versus just the residual from you being proactive a couple months ago.

Tim Staton (31:05):
I would just say I'm a little bit unfair as I read Dr.
Hardy's other book, which is the Order of Scaling.
And in that he talks about signal to noise ratio.
And in there, there's a lot of noise throughout the course of the day.
There's a lot of things happening, and it's up to you to rise above the noise.

(31:26):
What is your noise floor level?
And in the podcasting world or even.

In the music industry, that level of.

Tim Staton (31:33):
Static, you gotta raise it up so you can't hear it anymore.
And oftentimes, I don't think we rise ourselves up above the noise and we get sucked into the
noise and we latch on to the things that's in front of us instead of going, you know what?
This isn't for me to latch on to.
There's other people that can latch on to it.
There's other folks who would love to do that, and I don't necessarily have to do that.

(32:00):
So if I do do that goal, that's right in front of me, is that really going to get me to my ultimate objective?
And oftentimes he talks about in this book, too, he talks about this kid who he talked to, he
wants to own a soccer team.
And he goes like, by the time I'm 50 years old, I want to own my own soccer team, my own football club.
And he said, okay, sits down with him.
He says, what is it that you need to do in order to do that?

(32:22):
And he goes, well, I gotta go to college and get a bachelor's degree.
Then I gotta get a master's degree.
Then I have a doctorate degree.
Cause everybody I know that owns owns a football club and a soccer club has a doctorate degree.
So I got to get that.
And then I need a network and then find a whole bunch of people who have some money.
And then I got to buy this soccer club. And he goes, okay.
He goes, so let's shorten your timeline.

(32:43):
Let's say you have five years to get all this done.
What's really necessary in order to get that done?
Because when you shorten the timeframe, really the longevity of everything else in between is immaterial.
So what do I really need to.

Get down to five years?
I need to network and find people.

Tim Staton (33:03):
With a lot of money who are.

Willing to give it to me to buy the soccer team.

Tim Staton (33:03):
Nothing else is really needed.
I just need money and a team to buy and then to do it right.
And then some people to work with you and everything else.
So when we shorten our goals and we make them really audacious, you know, to get after it, it
really raises that signal to floor ratio.
And that goes into everything with, like, what foods you're gonna eat.

(33:28):
Right.

Like if you don't like being treated like garbage when you go through the.

Tim Staton (33:28):
Drive through, don't go to like a golden arch thing, right?
Cause you're probably gonna get treated that way. Nothing against them.
I love that, but I'm not gonna get mad when they screw something up because that's what it is.
If I raise my floor level to not do that, then I'll never entertain that.
And I think that's where he's talking about this rat race and this wheel that we get after.
We have a lot of little pebbles.

(33:49):
We have to do those things.
But oftentimes they're not the things that.

We have to do that reach our ultimate goal. Thank you.
I appreciate that feedback again, because I was just kind of, I went down a little bit of a
rabbit hole on that one.

Tim Staton (34:00):
No, absolutely.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to add one thing about the pebbles, that floor or ceiling ratio, discernment.
Discernment is what's gonna allow us to figure out how much time we spend on what and what we're willing to tolerate.
And that's something we lose sight of, but that discernment's gonna be able to tell us what
our floor is, what our ceiling is, and what we will and won't tolerate.

(34:22):
As it relates to goals and the time we spend on tasks.

Tim Staton (34:25):
And with time spent on tasks leads to a certain level of success.
And success can also be one of our biggest hindrance to failure.
And I'm kind of could do like a Jomini reference and a Clausewitz reference, right?
So Jomini wrote a book about war at a time where he won a lot of the things.
So he was like, I wrote a book on how to win.
And Clausewitz wrote a book of, hey, this is how you lose gracefully.

(34:54):
And here's why it sucks over a.

Long period of time. And here's the things I learned along the way.

Tim Staton (34:55):
And failure is a powerful teacher, but oftentimes I feel like people are afraid of failure,
even though failure is where you learn from.
So what are your thoughts on this threat?

So I really appreciated this threat.
He highlights that success can be hard to handle for some individuals, organizations, however
you wanna look at it.
And that kind of ties back to, I think I already mentioned, Dr.
Nati Sloshberg, who is the leading expert on transition or a leading.
And so again, those that like achieve success overnight though, like, cause it happened so quickly,

(35:29):
did not, you know, it was not gradual, I think can be, it can be overwhelming.
And so I think that if you take your future self and your goals and they're incremental and
not jumping from zero to a hundred, then, you know, you may have a better, it won't be such
a threat, I should say to someone. So I'm like.

(35:50):
I think again, success can be overwhelming.
And whenever you think about that and you go from zero to a hundred, that, you know, it's just
like, and then, you know, you might start pulling away from, you know, the future self that you've designed for yourself. So, yeah, I know.
I really appreciated this one because at first you're like, oh, once I'm successful, you know,
everything, it's gonna be great.

(36:10):
But it, that's not always true.
Or once you achieve success, then you forget that you still have to, and you become complacent.
I think he highlights on complacency in there that you become complacent and you don't care
continue to do the things you need to do in order to remain successful or to achieve the next level of success.

I definitely agree. I think in terms of the threat of failure, the one that resonated, or the
part that resonated for me the most was not being in the arena, not taking the risk, not doing
the thing, because then that's failure by default, because you haven't even tried.
And so I think a lot of times for myself, of thought and thought and thought and thought about doing something.

Tim Staton (36:52):
You know, and then thought about what.

Happens if, you know, it doesn't work out the way I planned in my head.
And that time spent thinking about is time of me not doing it.
So I'm not in the arena.
And so that's a failure in and of itself.
So I think, you know, that threat of just not even taking the chance to do it, not even getting
in the arena, just inherently stifles our ability to have success or be that future version of ourselves.
You know, whatever it takes to get over that.

(37:19):
That fear of failure and get in the ring or, you know, get skin in the game is important because,
you know, you just, the time is ticking, the clock is ticking, and, you know, you're just spending
time not being in the arena and not finding out what doesn't work.
And that will get you closer to what might actually work for you.
So that threat of failure resonated just in terms of just not being in the ring and you fail by default.

Tim Staton (37:37):
How are you going to critique somebody when you never yourself got into the arena?
So if you're in a place in your life and you're watching this and you're like, you know what,
I'm afraid you need to get in the arena because of what everybody else might say. So what?
Like, if you're in the arena and they're not, they're a spectator.
Spectators pay for you to perform.
So you're going to reap the benefit of them paying to watch you do whatever you're doing anyway.

(38:00):
So you might as well either succeed or fail because you're going to reap the benefit.
The second thing is, is that if you're in the arena and you're, you're talking about like, how do I get better?
When he brought up the story of, I forget his actual name, but Bobby Fisher chess player gate,
where he went into the jujitsu fighting.
And he wanted to go up against people who were better than him.

(38:22):
Not a little bit better than him, but significantly better than him, because he knew if I fail
every single day, I'm going to get better.
And then he beat the guy who was constantly beating him up every day.
And then the guy's like, well, I don't wanna play you anymore.
I'm not gonna get any benefit out of this either.
So I think that was a really good analogy because growing up playing sports, I always wanted

(38:43):
to play people older than me and better than me because I wanted to push myself.
I wanted to be around people who were better than me.
So I could be better.
I did success in, you know, being great. Yeah, yeah, you win. So what?
It's even better when you win and you win against people who are better than you.
And you're like, that's a real victory. What do y'all think?

I couldn't even agree more.
Uh, yeah, I'm an athlete.
I played sports my entire life.
And so I understand, you know, going up against someone bigger than you and failing and learning from that, that failure.
And I think having gone through that process, getting the sets and reps of, you know, pushing
yourself to the limit and, and then ultimately getting to a bit of success and then failing
again, getting to a an even further bit of success is the process is that much more fulfilling

(39:27):
and rewarding when you actually do reach whatever goal you're reaching.
And as an athlete, getting in the ring and doing the thing and getting knocked down, getting
back up, or whatever your sport is, I think it's essential to not only help with understanding
how failure sets you up for success, but also shaping the kind of character you build through that process.

(39:54):
Ultimately, getting to success is super important because you knew what you went through.
You learned mistakes, you learned from your mistakes.
And so when you reach that pinnacle of success, whatever that looks like for you, you knew that
there was a process and it's all the more meaningful for you.
And it's, I think, a bit easier to sustain that success and drive a path forward because you
knew where you came from, you knew what you went through.
And so I say, getting in the ring, doing the thing, And reaching success, getting those sets

(40:21):
and reps in is important to the character of, of, you know, what kind of winner you will be.

Yeah. So I would just say that, I think you have to know yourself in order to, to take, you know, a specific approach.
And so some people can go up against the harder people to learn and learn and learn.
But I'm gonna be a little bit of a pessimist here.
I don't think that that technique would work well for.

For everybody. Some people need to take it, you.

Tim Staton (40:49):
Know, step by step, you know, gradual and, you know, and learn those skills.

As they go versus going all in.
So again, I think it depends.
That's my favorite IG answer. Is it depends?

Tim Staton (40:57):
No, I don't disagree because some people do need the small wins along the way to build that confidence.
But it all goes towards something that Bobbie talked to, which was building the character along
the way so you can be the person to do the things that's required of for when you are your future
self, because your future self is going to have to endure things that you haven't endured yet,

(41:21):
and you have to build that character up along the way, which brings me to our first truth.
And I don't know, I have enough time to go in all of them, but I really love truth number one,
which is your future drives your present.
And that goes within to that character building. Right.
So I love how he talks about the cycle, and I, it resonated with me so much of when I was, like, in college and then.

(41:45):
So even sometimes today, where it's like, Tomorrow you will always be mad at Last Night you,
who wanted to stay up till two o'clock in the morning to play that video game or to watch that
Netflix binge series or whatever it is that you were doing that wanted you to stay up till two o'clock in the morning.
Like, Morning you will always be tired and mad at Last Night you.

(42:06):
And he can never do anything to affect Last Night you unless he oversleeps and loses his job.
And then now, Last Night you will never ever exist again because you're going I'm gonna have
to do something else that's kind of drastic.
But I love that analogy because it's so true.
Like how often do we not, we're thinking our future self like 5, 10, 20 years down the road,

(42:29):
but like even with tomorrow, right?
What are we doing today that sets ourself up for success for tomorrow?
And I really like that truth and how it came about because I found it to be truthful.
I was like, yeah, that's true for me.

So what about Yes, I like, I love, as much as I like the threats, truth number one is probably
my favorite, because just the point that he made specifically about your present self being
connected to your future self and actually caring about your future self, that resonated deeply
with me, because, you know, the just quick analogy of, you know, if you care about something
or somebody, you would want to stay connected and like make efforts and investments in that,

(43:08):
so that the future of that, your future self is, is obviously taken care of.

Tim Staton (43:16):
Of.

And so maintaining that connection to your future self through your present actions is important.
And so, you know, the cycle of understanding and being intentional about what you're doing now
currently and how it affects your future self, it makes a whole lot of sense.
It's logical, but it's very easy to lose sight of that and become disconnected, being bogged
down with other things that have nothing to do with your future self or things that are like,
you know, instant gratification and, you know, you don't, you lose of what it will do to your

(43:44):
future self or future version of you.
So staying present and being connected to my future self is super important.
And I think through goals and constantly looking at them and reviewing them is obviously ideal.
But I'm a realist and I understand that most of the time humans are creatures of like instant gratification.
It's very tough to keep that future self in mind and stay connected to it.
Obviously, you know, that's what's gonna get you to prepping and developing your future self.

I would add that I struggle with that a lot. Lot, right?
And because I often caught up like, oh, you know, with, just kind of living in the now, right?
Rather than, but again, I sometimes tell myself, tomorrow morning, you will appreciate that
you did all this preparation now.
And again, so I, I do have to have perspective sometimes.

(44:28):
Um, and so, and I always kind of think about it in the sense of, again, you know, like, you
know, nighttime Pam versus tomorrow morning Pam, when I'm not a morning person, despite my career
in the military, never a morning person.
Um, and I was like, But, but now the, what I do is like, I figure out what I'm going to wear
to work tonight and get it all out.

(44:49):
And if it needs to be steamed or what have you, then I try to do that the night before.
So that way I've better prepared future Pam for what lies ahead in that day because there are
so many unknowns that are gonna come at me the next day.
So I do try to have that perspective.
And, you know, and it sounds, you know, silly, but, you know, I think about what's gonna happen

(45:09):
tomorrow because it makes, helps me inform the decisions that I'm going to make this evening
and how I prepare for that.
So I sometimes do lose that focus and that perspective.
But I mean, I do try to think about it.

Tim Staton (45:23):
So we only have a few minutes left, and I just wanted to offer up to both of you, is there a
truth that really was like, you know what?
I really want to talk about this one truth before we go, because it really resonated with me
besides the one that we just talked about.
And if that's the one that we talked about, that's fine, too.

(45:43):
To, but I think that there were a lot of truths in here that were not reapparent based on the
threats and may have spoken to you more than some.
And for everybody watching this while they're going through it, I don't prepare any type of script ahead of time.
I'm like, this is just a conversation.
We read the book, then we get on here and we have a talk.

(46:03):
So I really put everybody on the spot.
And so that's how you know they know what they're talking.

About because you don't really, you don't.

Have anything to prepare from.
It's your own thoughts, your own, your.

Tim Staton (46:14):
Own perspectives on it. So I just wanted to offer that up to you.

I, I do one, one that resonated, I think the first one was like my favorite hands down, but
I think one that resonated a lot was, you know, the one around success, your, your ability to
achieve success is, you know, nothing more than being your authentic self. Right.
And so if you have goals in there, they're aligned with your values and they're aligned with who you intrinsically are.

(46:41):
You're inherently going to drive toward that success because it feels the most natural to you.
It feels what's authentically true to you.
And part of that is being a version of yourself that you are proud of, you are comfortable with,
you are authentically just being.
And so I think it's resonating because in all the things that I do, whether military or personal,

(47:03):
I try to do them in an authentic way that feels good to me inherently, right?
So when I think of authenticity, I think of what feels good to me, what are aligned with my values.
And so if my goals are aligned with that, and I'm developing what my future self looks like,
and if all that is aligned with who I am authentically, it's a lot easier to achieve success because that feels good.

(47:27):
Making a goal or setting a goal on something that is not necessarily aligned to you or something
that you really don't want to do.
It's a lot harder to stay motivated toward that.
So I think, you know, success is achieved for sure by being true to yourself and who you are authentically.
And I think I would offer that advice to anyone setting goals.
Make sure they align with your authentic self for sure.

Tim Staton (47:50):
So as we wrap this up, I know I mentioned at the beginning, you know, this time of year could be hard for folks.
And I think a lot of it is because we don't necessarily prepare for our future selves.
And then we come into the holiday seasons and we find ourselves more or alone.

And if that's, that's you, that's fine.

That's okay.

Tim Staton (48:08):
Just take a look at the things that you can do to better prepare yourself for the future.
You know, look at it as, hey, this is where I'm at.
And everything starts with an awareness.
And oftentimes we are unaware of ourselves and we're unaware of the situations we're in.
So everything starts with a self awareness.
This one may end up in the pound.

(48:28):
So everything starts with an awareness.
So stay in tune with who, where you are and where you want to be. To be.
And if you're not happy with where you are, connect to your future self and say, hey, you know what?
I care enough about you that I'm going to take care of the right things today.
So that way we can do that in the future.
So I just wanted to say thank you, Pam and Bobbie, for stopping by and joining us for this conversation.

(48:52):
And everybody who's listening and watching this, I appreciate you stopping by as well.
And we'll do this again soon. So thank you.

Thank you.

Happy to be here.

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