December 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Leadership Succession Planning Crisis: The Retirement Tsunami & How to Build Your Next Generation of Leaders Now | Jennifer Hawkins
Is your organization about to lose 30–50% of its senior leaders in the next 5–10 years? Most companies are completely unprepared for the massive leadership gap caused by retiring Baby Boomers and Gen X. In this episode, executive coach Jennifer Hawkins reveals exactly what a good succession plan looks like, why mid-level leaders are NOT ready to step up, and the proven leadership development strategies that close the gap fast.
You’ll discover: • The shocking statistics: 34% of Gen X leaders 50+ are already retiring or have firm plans • Why most mid-level managers can execute perfectly but can’t think strategically • The #1 mistake killing succession planning (and how to fix it this budget season) • How to turn high-potential leaders into strategic executives with cross-functional exposure • The mentoring philosophy that retains top talent AND creates industry goodwill even when they leave • Why “carrot” leadership beats “stick” leadership for innovation, mental health, and performance • Leadership succession planning models that actually work in 2025–2030
If you’re a CEO, CHRO, board member, or rising leader — this is the wake-up call you can’t ignore.
Tim Staton & Jennifer Hawkins (Launched Performance) break down real-world succession planning and leadership development tactics you can implement immediately.
→ Connect with Jennifer Hawkins:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferhawkins/
Website: https://launchedperformance.com/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/metricsontherise
Email: jennifer@launchedperformance.com
→ Connect with Tim Staton:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
Instagram: @TimStating Tiktok: @timstatingtheobvious
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-staton-04b41a271/
Enroll in the Leadership Course: https://themanyhatsofleadership.learnworlds.com/course/the-edge-mindset
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Staton (00:02):
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to Great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to Great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (00:25):
And a quick disclaimer, this show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer.
Otherwise, does not necessarily constitute an reply, the endorsement of anyone that I employed
by or favors the in the views.
Are expressed here in my show are.
My own expressed and do not necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to the next episode.
I'm really excited about today's topic because as we get older, we start thinking about the
Legacy we leave and how the world is going to be shaped.
And oftentimes we might be taken by surprise at how quickly that comes and are we setting the
Next Generation up for Success?
And we have the perfect guest today to talk about that.
(00:58):
So Jennifer Hawkins is the founder of launched performance, a leadership advisory firm helping
executives and organizations build the next generation of enterprise-level strategists.
With 20+ years of operational leadership experience across five industries, Jennifer is known
for her no-fluff approach to building top-performing teams, scaling operations, and coaching
(01:23):
leaders to rise during times of intense pressure.
Her rise was forged through adversity.
At 29 years old, she bought the.
Worst performing Sullivan Learning Center in the nation on her credit card, but she.
Turned it into a top 20% performer through two different recessions.
At Vitalant, formerly INBC, she ran a regional blood operations team across 4,800,000 square
(01:49):
miles from her son's hospital room during his leukemia battle.
Promoted four times in six years, she landed in the executive seat, leading operations through the COVID crisis. And systems reform.
Jennifer is a sought after speaker and coach known for her bold, practical, and deeply human approach to leadership.
(02:12):
She brings both grit and grace to every conversation and helps organizations build leaders who
are resilient, emotionally intelligent, and capable of leading forward and scaling businesses forward.
So Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Hawkins (02:29):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
Love what this show is about.
So thank you for having me today.
Tim Staton (02:35):
I appreciate everything that you bring to the table here.
So let's talk real quick about why developing the next generation is so important to you.
Jennifer Hawkins (02:45):
I am super passionate about this.
And actually most things I spend my time on, I tend to be passionate about, but this one in
particular really recently hit me smack in the face just.
Thinking about the work that I've been doing as a coach since I left the blood bank.
And initially I was working to help executives make pivots in their world, going from one industry to another.
(03:11):
And obviously having moved through five industries, that was something that was really easy for me.
And so was coaching in that.
They were landing the roles.
They were doing great in their outreach.
All these great things were happening.
And then they were getting into the to these higher level exec roles and they didn't have the
skillset that they needed to be strategists.
(03:32):
And so that was my first tip off that, wow, our higher mid level leaders moving into exec roles
do not have what it takes to make the leap.
And the reason for that is what we're seeing predominantly is our mid level leaders really are waiting for direction.
(03:58):
So that they can execute, so that they can have their teams execute.
But they're not the one building the vision and building the strategy.
They're the one who get the direction and execute it flawlessly.
And then the second thing happened during networking events and just social events that I was
at, where I was starting to see older Gen Xers and baby boomers literally pulling out their
(04:22):
apps to show everyone, this is my retirement day.
And it was like, holy cow, they're tracking this.
This is around the corner for them.
And realizing, wow, that is two generations that have their foot out the door.
And then doing my homework, doing my research, and realizing that 34% of Gen X or 50 and older
(04:48):
already are either in transition for retirement or already have their plan fully vetted.
And they know what their dates are, they're ready to go.
And so that was pretty eye opening as I began talking with HR leaders and execs, and asking
them, have you begun to figure out what percentage of your executive workforce is going to be
(05:13):
retiring in the next 12 to 36 months?
They weren't looking at it. They weren't auditing it. They weren't doing
polls or right, surveys. And so what that does is that leaves them potentially at great risk
because we have a whole generation of mid level leaders that are not ready to step into that role.
(05:35):
And you really only get roughly three to six months, if you're lucky, notification of a retirement.
And that is not enough window time to build that kind of strategist, that kind of skill set
and have them executing, taking a baton and running flawlessly. With a major organization.
And so that made me realize there's really a blue ocean here of opportunity to help those mid-level leaders, right?
(06:03):
This is something we need to double down on.
This is something we should be very concerned about because it's also an economic issue.
If all of a sudden all of these organizations aren't properly prepared, right, then they risk
not performing or potentially shutting down.
(06:25):
Loss of jobs, loss of dollars within our communities.
It's a large issue that I don't think is getting enough face time.
Tim Staton (06:30):
Absolutely. And so when you said that they're not properly tracking it, so what is like the
first clue that made you think like, hey, they're not tracking it based on, was it just a conversations
you were having with people?
And they were like, man, these people are ready to go.
And then you were kind of doing some studying.
It's like, hey, by the way, are you tracking these people are retiring?
Jennifer Hawkins (06:51):
Yeah. So I, I'm in a lot of CE SEO networking groups and things like that.
And so I'm right, I'm seeing everybody's got their got your app out, you're having this conversation.
And then the conversation for me, the next question was, so is your HR and your board of directors
aware that your timeline is like 15?
(07:14):
Well, no, no one's talked to me about it.
So it was my first natural question.
And that is when I started to realize, They're not auditing.
So then going to, you know, HR networking events and workshops started asking, right, high level
HR execs, what are you seeing?
Are you talking about this?
(07:35):
No, we're not auditing it yet.
Some of them were auditing it or had just audited and found out horrific news of, oh my goodness,
like 40% was our number.
And it's not just at the exec level in leadership, it's also at the board of directors level.
So can you imagine these mass exits happening at the same time?
(07:58):
You have your executives leaving, tiring, as well as your board of directors. What a double hit.
That is just like a gut punch thinking about that.
And so really, I started to, I literally made a pivot in my company of this is so dire and I'm
passionate for this because the ramifications are big and we need to be talking about it, preparing
(08:22):
for it, and auditing it.
We have work to do.
Tim Staton (08:25):
Absolutely. So with the, with that, what are we doing or what are you seeing with people adequately
preparing the next generation of lead?
How do we, how are we doing on talent management and then talent retention so that way we can
get people to stay long enough to have that culture?
Jennifer Hawkins (08:43):
You know, some organizations are great with talent retention in terms of onboarding, coaching and development.
But I will say that I don't believe that they're the main group of people.
I think that A lot of organizations have a philosophy of sink or swim.
You come in, you have the skill sets.
And the reason why I say that is because a lot of what I said earlier, my coaching, they were landing the role.
(09:11):
That was the original agreement.
We'll get you the role, we'll get you there, get you prepared for those interviews and that sort of thing.
But then six months later, they were being let go because they didn't have the strategy acumen
that they needed to carry that baton forward, which was really that's really what the organization was looking for.
(09:32):
So what we're seeing is even the ones that maybe are trying to get ahead of it and bring folks
in are dismayed, if you will, at what they're getting once they get in the door.
And that's a big lift to have somebody that really doesn't have that skill set and try and put that in play.
So I understand why the decisions are being made to let them go.
(10:00):
And try and find somebody that maybe has more of that background.
But in the same token, there's not enough of that to go around in that next generation.
And so we have to begin putting that succession plan, putting that coaching and development
strategies, training them, coaching them, allowing them to be leaders, allowing them to be a part of the strategy.
(10:21):
And really the one thing that I talk a lot about is right now is the perfect time to begin that.
Because of the time of year it is.
So if you think about it, many organizations are entering their budgeting period, right?
Their growth strategy conversation, their financial strategy conversations.
(10:41):
Right now is a perfect time to pull your higher mid-level leaders in and say, this year you're included.
We want to hear from you.
What's your plan for how you think growth could happen and that sort of thing, and work through
that with them so they're learning so that when it's their turn, hopefully they've seen one or two budget cycles.
(11:04):
Hopefully they've put strategy in place a couple of times, not just waited for direction.
Like when's it coming, waiting for it, right?
We need to do better to develop them in those areas.
And the best way to do that, put them in the projects, put them in the boardroom, have them building those strategies.
(11:30):
And then working with them on the feedback of here's, you know, here's what went well, here's where we can improve.
We're gonna take some of that and gonna we're take some of what we created as well and we're gonna make it happen.
And I love that opportunity that really is there.
Tim Staton (11:39):
Yeah. So that shadowing strategy is really good.
But also it's like shadowing and also operationalizing that as well, getting them involved in the process.
That's a great practical takeaway that people could use if they're not doing this, they could
probably start something like that today.
So what is it specifically Because I know that you were saying they're lacking the skills.
And for the executive level, that's a, there's a lot more refined skills that you need in order
(12:04):
to be at that level.
So what are the skills that they're saying?
Oh, I think this person may have it, but then six months later they're finding, nah, you know.
Jennifer Hawkins (12:12):
Yeah. And what I was seeing is their presence was great.
As a matter of fact, I was even surprised because I didn't have to, I didn't have to double down into that area. The idea being that
you're developing great rapport, right?
You have the buzzwords, they have enough industry knowledge.
So when they're going into these interviews, they had enough knowledge, they had that high level, you know, professional acumen.
(12:39):
They were coming off very polished.
And then of course, that's what I was prepping them for as well, right?
Let's work through your answers.
Let's work through the examples that you have and that sort of thing.
But when it came down to it,
That's very high level, and that's the difficulty, right, in an interview, in that if you are
only receiving that strategy though, in that plan, and you really didn't build it, you didn't
(13:05):
create it, you didn't think of it, that's a whole different skillset.
And they weren't prepared for that.
And so that part was disappointing.
I felt disappointed to have really had them in these positions, because it does strip away some
of your confidence in that sort of thing.
So when they came back to me, we then started to work on these executive skill sets in depth,
(13:30):
not high level, not polished, right?
How do you read the room?
How do you know what's going on in your industry?
Are you doing your homework to the level that you need to be that you can actually come up with a strategy?
You know, let's, I want you to not only give me a high level 30, 60, 90, but I want to really hear the application.
(13:55):
Of what that would look like in that first 30, 60, 90 days.
You know, when you get in there, what is, you know, what is exact the role that you're going to play?
Are you going to go in and try and change everything?
Are you going to observe?
Are you going to look for your subject matter experts who are doing things very well and then
multiply leaders that way with those subject matter experts?
So really just started to dive deep with them so that they were better prepared, because that's
(14:23):
that's the tough part now.
Everyone can get a hold of executive questions, prepare for them, and do that.
But you really have to have a high level set of skills to create vision, create strategy, and
run a large organization like that. That's multifaceted, multi-department, right?
It's bigger than just, I ran my department and I executed.
Tim Staton (14:45):
Absolutely. So I think it's interesting when you're talking about it's different when you have
multifaceted organizations and everything is, is widespread.
So with that, and we're noticing this generation coming up and into the leadership roles and
they want to be executives.
If I am not in an executive role yet, or I'm not on a board and I, and I want to be, what are
(15:11):
some of the things that you should say, you know what?
You need to work on these things now.
And because it's going to take you a couple of years to learn them.
What would it be like one or two things that you would say, folks, focus on these areas?
Jennifer Hawkins (15:23):
You know, for me, over the years, what I've seen work really well is mentoring in multi departments.
So not just sticking in your department, because typically what we see is a department leader, right?
Move into that higher level role.
But the question is, are you on projects that have multi department scope, for example?
(15:44):
And are you working across different departments and functions, or are you very siloed?
Because I will tell you, even for me, I was very seasoned moving from the recruitment, marketing
and communications into now owning docs, nurses, fleet facilities, phlebotomists, labs, cross
(16:07):
training, plus recruitment, marketing, communications, HR, right?
That is a huge shift.
And so being prepared for that, the way that I was already prepared for that is I had been sitting
in a leadership meetings where I was hearing from all the different departments, I was understanding
their, their throughput from start to finish and how our department affected their department,
(16:32):
working together with them, putting groups together, even at lower levels, where how are our
teams interacting with each other?
So we're not negatively impacting, but we're actually as a team getting things done, even when
it maybe didn't fall to our department.
How do you as a leader begin doing that?
And we don't see that enough.
(16:53):
I think that because we really try to have people be expert in that niche area, we're not then
saying, but as you move up the ranks, you then have to understand cross department.
You have to understand how each department affects each other and that sort of thing.
And so really working with them on, do you have vast knowledge beyond your department? Within your industry, right? Or are you myopic?
(17:21):
You know, where are you moving through this organization?
Are you mentoring under them?
Are you meeting with them, you know, and these other department leaders to hear some of the
things that they're accountable for so that if you were to step into that role, you understand
how they come up with strategy every year.
(17:41):
What are their budgetary, what are their obstacles?
Is there anything that you can do with your team to help them with their obstacles and vice versa?
And if you begin doing that, you start to become more well-rounded in your knowledge.
You start to understand there's a much bigger world than just your department.
And you gain knowledge from the entire organization.
(18:04):
That really helps you think about the strategy and the, and the detriment of each department on each other.
And in blood banking, especially for us,
we spoke about that all the time.
We used to actually, most blood banks lead by, let's start with the beginning of the line, recruitment,
marketing, and communications, and then move all the way down.
(18:27):
Well, then there wasn't enough expertise and knowledge way down here in the process, right?
So through phlebotomy, through the docs and the nurses, and then through manufacturing and distribution, well.
Tim Staton (18:46):
Let's reverse that.
Jennifer Hawkins (18:46):
Let's start to understand the voice of the customer and the patient better and not start over
here at the front of the house of the work, but actually let's begin with the customer and understand how they're affected, right?
Let's understand how our hospitals are affected.
So it was reverse psychology, but everybody learned so much starting with the hospitals and
the patients, as opposed with starting with the front of the house of the work.
(19:09):
And so those are different ways you can begin to really train and work with people and get them
thinking, you know, broader than they do when they're siloed and just thinking about as a department
head, what am I accountable here in my department? Stakeholders, you're building stakeholders.
Tim Staton (19:28):
Great, great points about being able to work with cross functional teams and get that cross there.
So if I'm a person who's like, you know what?
I, I hear what you're saying.
Jennifer Hawkins (19:45):
But when I asked to be included.
Tim Staton (19:45):
People are like, no, we've got some other people or, Hey, we've got a process for this.
You're not in line for this.
How can they where can they reach out to develop those skills on their own?
Jennifer Hawkins (19:53):
You know, obviously, coach, there are coaches out there that you can always work with, you know,
and I am a lifelong learner.
There has never been a time in my world where I wasn't either going back to school for something,
gaining a certificate, or, and I always had mentors and I always had coaches because I wanted
to scale and I wanted to scale quickly.
So that is one, you know, one way you can network, obviously, and gain some of that expertise
(20:20):
through other organizations and other leaders, right, within your community.
But you also can absolutely ask someone in your organization in the other departments that's a higher level and
I have never found where somebody said to me, I don't want to mentor you. Right?
I just, that has never happened to me.
(20:40):
You know, I just think that when you see someone who cares deeply about the mission and the
organization and their people, and they're telling you they want to understand better the whole
entire organization and what their part department can do to better help.
Tim Staton (21:05):
The different departments and organization.
Jennifer Hawkins (21:05):
I just believe that most high level leaders are going to be impressed by that and are going
to absolutely be willing to at least meet with you for short periods of time, right? Regularly.
And then like I said, the other opportunity too is large organizations typically have multiple
different, towns in which you have facilities, right?
(21:26):
So it doesn't necessarily have to be I live in Spokane, Washington.
I don't need to just tap into the people in Spokane, Washington.
Maybe I want to work with the people out of Hartford, Connecticut, because you know what?
There's someone there who's willing to spend the time with me and, and they're higher level,
and they're gonna offer me that expertise.
I think it's about how hungry you are for finding the mentors.
(21:50):
I think it's how dedicated and willing you are to potentially go back and keep learning.
And it's also who are you networking with maybe in your community?
Because believe it or not, organizational issues are very similar from industry to industry.
Having been in five of them and you heard all the departments that I picked up, you know what I saw?
(22:13):
Every single department had very similar problems.
And so, you know, once you understand that and you accept that, you're more open to potentially
tapping into other people in other areas to get the expertise that you need.
Tim Staton (22:26):
I asked that question because I believe there is a misconception or, or perception out there
by the next generation, by a younger generation that, oh, well mentorship is only for the select few.
Coaching is for those who the organization is investing in.
And who am I to like throw myself into that process and they self eliminate themselves and then
(22:50):
we lose talent that way.
And so if you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, I want to get into a mentorship
program or I want to be mentored.
Go find someone in your organization, like Jennifer just said, and ask, find someone senior
and say, look, I love this organization.
I want to be mentored.
I want to stick around.
I want to make a difference.
So I want to ask a question about the difference between people who care about the organization
(23:16):
and want to move up and give back versus people who are just looking to get ahead for the next
stepping stone than to move on to something, some somewhere else.
So how do we handle that in an organization?
Because I can think of a situation where someone's like, hey, you know what?
This person's really talented and they, they want to be invested in and they're going to learn
(23:36):
skills, then they're going to go somewhere else.
And now I have a vacancy.
What do we say to those people?
Jennifer Hawkins (23:41):
I just had this conversation with a doc recently.
She has multiple sites and she's frustrated.
She feels like she pours in.
And some she's kept, which is great, but not everybody.
And she says, I invest a lot of my heart and my time into them.
I have a philosophy that not everyone has.
I believe there's value in mentoring, coaching and developing anyone that wants that in your circle. Because you know what? We're a community. We are an America.
(24:11):
We're a community, your state, whatever, right? There's no
loss in my mind when you develop people around you, the more leaders you put into this world, right?
And keeping in mind, those are people that potentially might go to an area that you partner with.
(24:32):
They become your partners for your future, people that you network, right?
People that you can call upon.
I have yet to have, and I've always had this where I'm building leaders. I'm building servant leaders.
I really believe in that.
And my expectation is that they're gonna leave whatever area, world, community, whatever, better than they found it.
(24:54):
And so I'm always pouring in.
If you're in my circle, I am pouring in.
And I hope you're pouring into me too, because I always have something new to learn.
But it's important to me that with that, I believe that with that mindset, we're doing great
(25:14):
for our organization because they're still going to be in our circle some way, or they're going
to be developing others around them as you're developing them.
Those ripple effects still will positively leave impact for you.
But even if I think about like the Hartford, I left the Hartford and went to a competitor. But you know what?
The Hartford was so much better off for that time that they poured into me and developed me
(25:36):
and all the dollars that they
spent on me for that world class training from different vendors, coaches, and that sort of
thing that they brought in to train us.
That time while I was there, I was number one in all of sales for that AARP across the enterprise.
So that whole segment, that whole affinity account that we had, my team was best and I was best. You know what?
(26:01):
That didn't hurt the Hartford, even though I left. Right?
And by the way, I tell everyone that's who poured into me.
Those are the people that trained me.
They have world-class training organization.
They are dedicated to pouring into their leaders.
I am spreading Goodwill all throughout every time I'm in front of someone, and that is a ripple positive effect for them.
(26:27):
So it was worth it.
So at the end of the day, I just never will believe that it adversely affects you.
To pour in. And I believe the benefits that you will get from your people during the time that
you have them, and even later, what they'll do by singing your praises or partnering with you are well worth it.
Tim Staton (26:47):
Absolutely. All great points. And I appreciate you bringing that up because there is a thought
out there of, you know, if I pour in, they're just gonna move on, and then I gotta pour into somebody else. So what's the point?
And I have the same mentality that you do with this.
I think everybody should be poured into in vice. Versa in developed.
So I really love your, your take on that.
Jennifer Hawkins (27:09):
Thank you. We have spent so much time over the last decade with go to market speed, right?
And efficiency in our staff and that sort of thing that we really have set a precedence and
a tone throughout our organizations of top down leadership.
You're gonna, I'm gonna create the strategy.
(27:29):
You're gonna wait for it.
And then you're going to execute it.
Tim Staton (27:37):
And unfortunately, a lot of leaders have.
Jennifer Hawkins (27:37):
Not been trained how to do much more than unfortunately micromanage.
And it's a, I get it.
It's a word nobody wants to hear.
Nobody wants to say that their leaders are micromanaging.
But when you are really leading with the stick and not a carrot and you're not coach, you're
not excellent at coaching and developing, and I will say telling is not development.
(28:03):
If I'm standing here telling you what to do, that is not coaching and development.
I can't expect that somebody is going to take my words, go sit down and apply them effectively.
It's just not how people work.
And so it really creates a sink or swim mentality.
And I also believe, and again, this isn't the most popular thing that I'm about to say, but
I'm gonna hit us all between the eyeballs.
(28:29):
Because I think we really need to start talking about it.
I believe it's a portion of the mental health issues that we see today because people are living in ambiguity.
They're not sure what their next steps are.
They're not sure if they will lose their jobs today.
They're not sure every single day of what is happening when they come in because they're waiting
for someone to direct them. And that feels uncomfortable. It doesn't feel.
Tim Staton (28:56):
Safe.
Jennifer Hawkins (28:56):
And so when we lead that way, we really put people, you know, at a disadvantage.
And we're not getting their best work from them. We're not getting innovation. We're not getting creativity.
We're not getting that joy in their work that makes them want to give their all every single day and really try.
So I believe, and look, as an executive, I can't sit here and tell you I've never, I've been perfect. Because I haven't.
(29:21):
And I can reflect back on the times where I'm like, I led with the stick, or I wish I had handled
that better, or, you know, I let my frustration show, and I know that affected my team.
And we were stressed and I was stressed and I let it get to me. Right.
But as leaders, every single day, we need to work hard to make positive impact, really understand
(29:43):
how to develop people, how to find their level of Genius and help them really spotlight that
and transfer that to the people around them and lift all the boats at the same time.
And that is really our job as leaders.
And so that's what I would say is that I'm really looking for our next generation to have those
skills and capabilities so that we can do it different.
(30:05):
We can do it better.
Let's lead with the carrot and not the stick.
Tim Staton (30:09):
And for everyone watching this and you're like, I don't know how to do that.
And how can I do that?
Well, go to the description in there.
You're gonna have Jennifer's contact information.
You're gonna have all the links to everything that she has to offer, and she can help you with
this, and her team can help you with this as well.
So I am passionate about this as well.
I know the next generation is gonna do great things, but when we get there, however, we still
(30:31):
need to take the time to develop the necessary skills along the way so we can be successful doing it.
And I really appreciate everything that you do and bringing this to everybody's attention because
I know when we first spoke and you told me,
the statistics and everybody's getting ready to retire even at.
Jennifer Hawkins (30:51):
The Gen X level.
Tim Staton (30:51):
I was not even tracking that at all and it hit me by surprise.
So I know if it hit me by surprise, it's hitting everybody else by surprise.
So I appreciate all the work that you do and thanks for joining us today.
Jennifer Hawkins (31:00):
Well, thank you so much, Tim. It was my pleasure.
I really enjoyed my time with you.
Thank you for all you do as well.
Tim Staton (31:06):
Thank you. As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll be alerted.
(31:29):
Please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. Stay in the obvious.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to Great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's a church, whether it's
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to Great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (00:25):
And a quick disclaimer, this show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer.
Otherwise, does not necessarily constitute an reply, the endorsement of anyone that I employed
by or favors the in the views.
Are expressed here in my show are.
My own expressed and do not necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to the next episode.
I'm really excited about today's topic because as we get older, we start thinking about the
Legacy we leave and how the world is going to be shaped.
And oftentimes we might be taken by surprise at how quickly that comes and are we setting the
Next Generation up for Success?
And we have the perfect guest today to talk about that.
(00:58):
So Jennifer Hawkins is the founder of launched performance, a leadership advisory firm helping
executives and organizations build the next generation of enterprise-level strategists.
With 20+ years of operational leadership experience across five industries, Jennifer is known
for her no-fluff approach to building top-performing teams, scaling operations, and coaching
(01:23):
leaders to rise during times of intense pressure.
Her rise was forged through adversity.
At 29 years old, she bought the.
Worst performing Sullivan Learning Center in the nation on her credit card, but she.
Turned it into a top 20% performer through two different recessions.
At Vitalant, formerly INBC, she ran a regional blood operations team across 4,800,000 square
(01:49):
miles from her son's hospital room during his leukemia battle.
Promoted four times in six years, she landed in the executive seat, leading operations through the COVID crisis. And systems reform.
Jennifer is a sought after speaker and coach known for her bold, practical, and deeply human approach to leadership.
(02:12):
She brings both grit and grace to every conversation and helps organizations build leaders who
are resilient, emotionally intelligent, and capable of leading forward and scaling businesses forward.
So Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Hawkins (02:29):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
Love what this show is about.
So thank you for having me today.
Tim Staton (02:35):
I appreciate everything that you bring to the table here.
So let's talk real quick about why developing the next generation is so important to you.
Jennifer Hawkins (02:45):
I am super passionate about this.
And actually most things I spend my time on, I tend to be passionate about, but this one in
particular really recently hit me smack in the face just.
Thinking about the work that I've been doing as a coach since I left the blood bank.
And initially I was working to help executives make pivots in their world, going from one industry to another.
(03:11):
And obviously having moved through five industries, that was something that was really easy for me.
And so was coaching in that.
They were landing the roles.
They were doing great in their outreach.
All these great things were happening.
And then they were getting into the to these higher level exec roles and they didn't have the
skillset that they needed to be strategists.
(03:32):
And so that was my first tip off that, wow, our higher mid level leaders moving into exec roles
do not have what it takes to make the leap.
And the reason for that is what we're seeing predominantly is our mid level leaders really are waiting for direction.
(03:58):
So that they can execute, so that they can have their teams execute.
But they're not the one building the vision and building the strategy.
They're the one who get the direction and execute it flawlessly.
And then the second thing happened during networking events and just social events that I was
at, where I was starting to see older Gen Xers and baby boomers literally pulling out their
(04:22):
apps to show everyone, this is my retirement day.
And it was like, holy cow, they're tracking this.
This is around the corner for them.
And realizing, wow, that is two generations that have their foot out the door.
And then doing my homework, doing my research, and realizing that 34% of Gen X or 50 and older
(04:48):
already are either in transition for retirement or already have their plan fully vetted.
And they know what their dates are, they're ready to go.
And so that was pretty eye opening as I began talking with HR leaders and execs, and asking
them, have you begun to figure out what percentage of your executive workforce is going to be
(05:13):
retiring in the next 12 to 36 months?
They weren't looking at it. They weren't auditing it. They weren't doing
polls or right, surveys. And so what that does is that leaves them potentially at great risk
because we have a whole generation of mid level leaders that are not ready to step into that role.
(05:35):
And you really only get roughly three to six months, if you're lucky, notification of a retirement.
And that is not enough window time to build that kind of strategist, that kind of skill set
and have them executing, taking a baton and running flawlessly. With a major organization.
And so that made me realize there's really a blue ocean here of opportunity to help those mid-level leaders, right?
(06:03):
This is something we need to double down on.
This is something we should be very concerned about because it's also an economic issue.
If all of a sudden all of these organizations aren't properly prepared, right, then they risk
not performing or potentially shutting down.
(06:25):
Loss of jobs, loss of dollars within our communities.
It's a large issue that I don't think is getting enough face time.
Tim Staton (06:30):
Absolutely. And so when you said that they're not properly tracking it, so what is like the
first clue that made you think like, hey, they're not tracking it based on, was it just a conversations
you were having with people?
And they were like, man, these people are ready to go.
And then you were kind of doing some studying.
It's like, hey, by the way, are you tracking these people are retiring?
Jennifer Hawkins (06:51):
Yeah. So I, I'm in a lot of CE SEO networking groups and things like that.
And so I'm right, I'm seeing everybody's got their got your app out, you're having this conversation.
And then the conversation for me, the next question was, so is your HR and your board of directors
aware that your timeline is like 15?
(07:14):
Well, no, no one's talked to me about it.
So it was my first natural question.
And that is when I started to realize, They're not auditing.
So then going to, you know, HR networking events and workshops started asking, right, high level
HR execs, what are you seeing?
Are you talking about this?
(07:35):
No, we're not auditing it yet.
Some of them were auditing it or had just audited and found out horrific news of, oh my goodness,
like 40% was our number.
And it's not just at the exec level in leadership, it's also at the board of directors level.
So can you imagine these mass exits happening at the same time?
(07:58):
You have your executives leaving, tiring, as well as your board of directors. What a double hit.
That is just like a gut punch thinking about that.
And so really, I started to, I literally made a pivot in my company of this is so dire and I'm
passionate for this because the ramifications are big and we need to be talking about it, preparing
(08:22):
for it, and auditing it.
We have work to do.
Tim Staton (08:25):
Absolutely. So with the, with that, what are we doing or what are you seeing with people adequately
preparing the next generation of lead?
How do we, how are we doing on talent management and then talent retention so that way we can
get people to stay long enough to have that culture?
Jennifer Hawkins (08:43):
You know, some organizations are great with talent retention in terms of onboarding, coaching and development.
But I will say that I don't believe that they're the main group of people.
I think that A lot of organizations have a philosophy of sink or swim.
You come in, you have the skill sets.
And the reason why I say that is because a lot of what I said earlier, my coaching, they were landing the role.
(09:11):
That was the original agreement.
We'll get you the role, we'll get you there, get you prepared for those interviews and that sort of thing.
But then six months later, they were being let go because they didn't have the strategy acumen
that they needed to carry that baton forward, which was really that's really what the organization was looking for.
(09:32):
So what we're seeing is even the ones that maybe are trying to get ahead of it and bring folks
in are dismayed, if you will, at what they're getting once they get in the door.
And that's a big lift to have somebody that really doesn't have that skill set and try and put that in play.
So I understand why the decisions are being made to let them go.
(10:00):
And try and find somebody that maybe has more of that background.
But in the same token, there's not enough of that to go around in that next generation.
And so we have to begin putting that succession plan, putting that coaching and development
strategies, training them, coaching them, allowing them to be leaders, allowing them to be a part of the strategy.
(10:21):
And really the one thing that I talk a lot about is right now is the perfect time to begin that.
Because of the time of year it is.
So if you think about it, many organizations are entering their budgeting period, right?
Their growth strategy conversation, their financial strategy conversations.
(10:41):
Right now is a perfect time to pull your higher mid-level leaders in and say, this year you're included.
We want to hear from you.
What's your plan for how you think growth could happen and that sort of thing, and work through
that with them so they're learning so that when it's their turn, hopefully they've seen one or two budget cycles.
(11:04):
Hopefully they've put strategy in place a couple of times, not just waited for direction.
Like when's it coming, waiting for it, right?
We need to do better to develop them in those areas.
And the best way to do that, put them in the projects, put them in the boardroom, have them building those strategies.
(11:30):
And then working with them on the feedback of here's, you know, here's what went well, here's where we can improve.
We're gonna take some of that and gonna we're take some of what we created as well and we're gonna make it happen.
And I love that opportunity that really is there.
Tim Staton (11:39):
Yeah. So that shadowing strategy is really good.
But also it's like shadowing and also operationalizing that as well, getting them involved in the process.
That's a great practical takeaway that people could use if they're not doing this, they could
probably start something like that today.
So what is it specifically Because I know that you were saying they're lacking the skills.
And for the executive level, that's a, there's a lot more refined skills that you need in order
(12:04):
to be at that level.
So what are the skills that they're saying?
Oh, I think this person may have it, but then six months later they're finding, nah, you know.
Jennifer Hawkins (12:12):
Yeah. And what I was seeing is their presence was great.
As a matter of fact, I was even surprised because I didn't have to, I didn't have to double down into that area. The idea being that
you're developing great rapport, right?
You have the buzzwords, they have enough industry knowledge.
So when they're going into these interviews, they had enough knowledge, they had that high level, you know, professional acumen.
(12:39):
They were coming off very polished.
And then of course, that's what I was prepping them for as well, right?
Let's work through your answers.
Let's work through the examples that you have and that sort of thing.
But when it came down to it,
That's very high level, and that's the difficulty, right, in an interview, in that if you are
only receiving that strategy though, in that plan, and you really didn't build it, you didn't
(13:05):
create it, you didn't think of it, that's a whole different skillset.
And they weren't prepared for that.
And so that part was disappointing.
I felt disappointed to have really had them in these positions, because it does strip away some
of your confidence in that sort of thing.
So when they came back to me, we then started to work on these executive skill sets in depth,
(13:30):
not high level, not polished, right?
How do you read the room?
How do you know what's going on in your industry?
Are you doing your homework to the level that you need to be that you can actually come up with a strategy?
You know, let's, I want you to not only give me a high level 30, 60, 90, but I want to really hear the application.
(13:55):
Of what that would look like in that first 30, 60, 90 days.
You know, when you get in there, what is, you know, what is exact the role that you're going to play?
Are you going to go in and try and change everything?
Are you going to observe?
Are you going to look for your subject matter experts who are doing things very well and then
multiply leaders that way with those subject matter experts?
So really just started to dive deep with them so that they were better prepared, because that's
(14:23):
that's the tough part now.
Everyone can get a hold of executive questions, prepare for them, and do that.
But you really have to have a high level set of skills to create vision, create strategy, and
run a large organization like that. That's multifaceted, multi-department, right?
It's bigger than just, I ran my department and I executed.
Tim Staton (14:45):
Absolutely. So I think it's interesting when you're talking about it's different when you have
multifaceted organizations and everything is, is widespread.
So with that, and we're noticing this generation coming up and into the leadership roles and
they want to be executives.
If I am not in an executive role yet, or I'm not on a board and I, and I want to be, what are
(15:11):
some of the things that you should say, you know what?
You need to work on these things now.
And because it's going to take you a couple of years to learn them.
What would it be like one or two things that you would say, folks, focus on these areas?
Jennifer Hawkins (15:23):
You know, for me, over the years, what I've seen work really well is mentoring in multi departments.
So not just sticking in your department, because typically what we see is a department leader, right?
Move into that higher level role.
But the question is, are you on projects that have multi department scope, for example?
(15:44):
And are you working across different departments and functions, or are you very siloed?
Because I will tell you, even for me, I was very seasoned moving from the recruitment, marketing
and communications into now owning docs, nurses, fleet facilities, phlebotomists, labs, cross
(16:07):
training, plus recruitment, marketing, communications, HR, right?
That is a huge shift.
And so being prepared for that, the way that I was already prepared for that is I had been sitting
in a leadership meetings where I was hearing from all the different departments, I was understanding
their, their throughput from start to finish and how our department affected their department,
(16:32):
working together with them, putting groups together, even at lower levels, where how are our
teams interacting with each other?
So we're not negatively impacting, but we're actually as a team getting things done, even when
it maybe didn't fall to our department.
How do you as a leader begin doing that?
And we don't see that enough.
(16:53):
I think that because we really try to have people be expert in that niche area, we're not then
saying, but as you move up the ranks, you then have to understand cross department.
You have to understand how each department affects each other and that sort of thing.
And so really working with them on, do you have vast knowledge beyond your department? Within your industry, right? Or are you myopic?
(17:21):
You know, where are you moving through this organization?
Are you mentoring under them?
Are you meeting with them, you know, and these other department leaders to hear some of the
things that they're accountable for so that if you were to step into that role, you understand
how they come up with strategy every year.
(17:41):
What are their budgetary, what are their obstacles?
Is there anything that you can do with your team to help them with their obstacles and vice versa?
And if you begin doing that, you start to become more well-rounded in your knowledge.
You start to understand there's a much bigger world than just your department.
And you gain knowledge from the entire organization.
(18:04):
That really helps you think about the strategy and the, and the detriment of each department on each other.
And in blood banking, especially for us,
we spoke about that all the time.
We used to actually, most blood banks lead by, let's start with the beginning of the line, recruitment,
marketing, and communications, and then move all the way down.
(18:27):
Well, then there wasn't enough expertise and knowledge way down here in the process, right?
So through phlebotomy, through the docs and the nurses, and then through manufacturing and distribution, well.
Tim Staton (18:46):
Let's reverse that.
Jennifer Hawkins (18:46):
Let's start to understand the voice of the customer and the patient better and not start over
here at the front of the house of the work, but actually let's begin with the customer and understand how they're affected, right?
Let's understand how our hospitals are affected.
So it was reverse psychology, but everybody learned so much starting with the hospitals and
the patients, as opposed with starting with the front of the house of the work.
(19:09):
And so those are different ways you can begin to really train and work with people and get them
thinking, you know, broader than they do when they're siloed and just thinking about as a department
head, what am I accountable here in my department? Stakeholders, you're building stakeholders.
Tim Staton (19:28):
Great, great points about being able to work with cross functional teams and get that cross there.
So if I'm a person who's like, you know what?
I, I hear what you're saying.
Jennifer Hawkins (19:45):
But when I asked to be included.
Tim Staton (19:45):
People are like, no, we've got some other people or, Hey, we've got a process for this.
You're not in line for this.
How can they where can they reach out to develop those skills on their own?
Jennifer Hawkins (19:53):
You know, obviously, coach, there are coaches out there that you can always work with, you know,
and I am a lifelong learner.
There has never been a time in my world where I wasn't either going back to school for something,
gaining a certificate, or, and I always had mentors and I always had coaches because I wanted
to scale and I wanted to scale quickly.
So that is one, you know, one way you can network, obviously, and gain some of that expertise
(20:20):
through other organizations and other leaders, right, within your community.
But you also can absolutely ask someone in your organization in the other departments that's a higher level and
I have never found where somebody said to me, I don't want to mentor you. Right?
I just, that has never happened to me.
(20:40):
You know, I just think that when you see someone who cares deeply about the mission and the
organization and their people, and they're telling you they want to understand better the whole
entire organization and what their part department can do to better help.
Tim Staton (21:05):
The different departments and organization.
Jennifer Hawkins (21:05):
I just believe that most high level leaders are going to be impressed by that and are going
to absolutely be willing to at least meet with you for short periods of time, right? Regularly.
And then like I said, the other opportunity too is large organizations typically have multiple
different, towns in which you have facilities, right?
(21:26):
So it doesn't necessarily have to be I live in Spokane, Washington.
I don't need to just tap into the people in Spokane, Washington.
Maybe I want to work with the people out of Hartford, Connecticut, because you know what?
There's someone there who's willing to spend the time with me and, and they're higher level,
and they're gonna offer me that expertise.
I think it's about how hungry you are for finding the mentors.
(21:50):
I think it's how dedicated and willing you are to potentially go back and keep learning.
And it's also who are you networking with maybe in your community?
Because believe it or not, organizational issues are very similar from industry to industry.
Having been in five of them and you heard all the departments that I picked up, you know what I saw?
(22:13):
Every single department had very similar problems.
And so, you know, once you understand that and you accept that, you're more open to potentially
tapping into other people in other areas to get the expertise that you need.
Tim Staton (22:26):
I asked that question because I believe there is a misconception or, or perception out there
by the next generation, by a younger generation that, oh, well mentorship is only for the select few.
Coaching is for those who the organization is investing in.
And who am I to like throw myself into that process and they self eliminate themselves and then
(22:50):
we lose talent that way.
And so if you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, I want to get into a mentorship
program or I want to be mentored.
Go find someone in your organization, like Jennifer just said, and ask, find someone senior
and say, look, I love this organization.
I want to be mentored.
I want to stick around.
I want to make a difference.
So I want to ask a question about the difference between people who care about the organization
(23:16):
and want to move up and give back versus people who are just looking to get ahead for the next
stepping stone than to move on to something, some somewhere else.
So how do we handle that in an organization?
Because I can think of a situation where someone's like, hey, you know what?
This person's really talented and they, they want to be invested in and they're going to learn
(23:36):
skills, then they're going to go somewhere else.
And now I have a vacancy.
What do we say to those people?
Jennifer Hawkins (23:41):
I just had this conversation with a doc recently.
She has multiple sites and she's frustrated.
She feels like she pours in.
And some she's kept, which is great, but not everybody.
And she says, I invest a lot of my heart and my time into them.
I have a philosophy that not everyone has.
I believe there's value in mentoring, coaching and developing anyone that wants that in your circle. Because you know what? We're a community. We are an America.
(24:11):
We're a community, your state, whatever, right? There's no
loss in my mind when you develop people around you, the more leaders you put into this world, right?
And keeping in mind, those are people that potentially might go to an area that you partner with.
(24:32):
They become your partners for your future, people that you network, right?
People that you can call upon.
I have yet to have, and I've always had this where I'm building leaders. I'm building servant leaders.
I really believe in that.
And my expectation is that they're gonna leave whatever area, world, community, whatever, better than they found it.
(24:54):
And so I'm always pouring in.
If you're in my circle, I am pouring in.
And I hope you're pouring into me too, because I always have something new to learn.
But it's important to me that with that, I believe that with that mindset, we're doing great
(25:14):
for our organization because they're still going to be in our circle some way, or they're going
to be developing others around them as you're developing them.
Those ripple effects still will positively leave impact for you.
But even if I think about like the Hartford, I left the Hartford and went to a competitor. But you know what?
The Hartford was so much better off for that time that they poured into me and developed me
(25:36):
and all the dollars that they
spent on me for that world class training from different vendors, coaches, and that sort of
thing that they brought in to train us.
That time while I was there, I was number one in all of sales for that AARP across the enterprise.
So that whole segment, that whole affinity account that we had, my team was best and I was best. You know what?
(26:01):
That didn't hurt the Hartford, even though I left. Right?
And by the way, I tell everyone that's who poured into me.
Those are the people that trained me.
They have world-class training organization.
They are dedicated to pouring into their leaders.
I am spreading Goodwill all throughout every time I'm in front of someone, and that is a ripple positive effect for them.
(26:27):
So it was worth it.
So at the end of the day, I just never will believe that it adversely affects you.
To pour in. And I believe the benefits that you will get from your people during the time that
you have them, and even later, what they'll do by singing your praises or partnering with you are well worth it.
Tim Staton (26:47):
Absolutely. All great points. And I appreciate you bringing that up because there is a thought
out there of, you know, if I pour in, they're just gonna move on, and then I gotta pour into somebody else. So what's the point?
And I have the same mentality that you do with this.
I think everybody should be poured into in vice. Versa in developed.
So I really love your, your take on that.
Jennifer Hawkins (27:09):
Thank you. We have spent so much time over the last decade with go to market speed, right?
And efficiency in our staff and that sort of thing that we really have set a precedence and
a tone throughout our organizations of top down leadership.
You're gonna, I'm gonna create the strategy.
(27:29):
You're gonna wait for it.
And then you're going to execute it.
Tim Staton (27:37):
And unfortunately, a lot of leaders have.
Jennifer Hawkins (27:37):
Not been trained how to do much more than unfortunately micromanage.
And it's a, I get it.
It's a word nobody wants to hear.
Nobody wants to say that their leaders are micromanaging.
But when you are really leading with the stick and not a carrot and you're not coach, you're
not excellent at coaching and developing, and I will say telling is not development.
(28:03):
If I'm standing here telling you what to do, that is not coaching and development.
I can't expect that somebody is going to take my words, go sit down and apply them effectively.
It's just not how people work.
And so it really creates a sink or swim mentality.
And I also believe, and again, this isn't the most popular thing that I'm about to say, but
I'm gonna hit us all between the eyeballs.
(28:29):
Because I think we really need to start talking about it.
I believe it's a portion of the mental health issues that we see today because people are living in ambiguity.
They're not sure what their next steps are.
They're not sure if they will lose their jobs today.
They're not sure every single day of what is happening when they come in because they're waiting
for someone to direct them. And that feels uncomfortable. It doesn't feel.
Tim Staton (28:56):
Safe.
Jennifer Hawkins (28:56):
And so when we lead that way, we really put people, you know, at a disadvantage.
And we're not getting their best work from them. We're not getting innovation. We're not getting creativity.
We're not getting that joy in their work that makes them want to give their all every single day and really try.
So I believe, and look, as an executive, I can't sit here and tell you I've never, I've been perfect. Because I haven't.
(29:21):
And I can reflect back on the times where I'm like, I led with the stick, or I wish I had handled
that better, or, you know, I let my frustration show, and I know that affected my team.
And we were stressed and I was stressed and I let it get to me. Right.
But as leaders, every single day, we need to work hard to make positive impact, really understand
(29:43):
how to develop people, how to find their level of Genius and help them really spotlight that
and transfer that to the people around them and lift all the boats at the same time.
And that is really our job as leaders.
And so that's what I would say is that I'm really looking for our next generation to have those
skills and capabilities so that we can do it different.
(30:05):
We can do it better.
Let's lead with the carrot and not the stick.
Tim Staton (30:09):
And for everyone watching this and you're like, I don't know how to do that.
And how can I do that?
Well, go to the description in there.
You're gonna have Jennifer's contact information.
You're gonna have all the links to everything that she has to offer, and she can help you with
this, and her team can help you with this as well.
So I am passionate about this as well.
I know the next generation is gonna do great things, but when we get there, however, we still
(30:31):
need to take the time to develop the necessary skills along the way so we can be successful doing it.
And I really appreciate everything that you do and bringing this to everybody's attention because
I know when we first spoke and you told me,
the statistics and everybody's getting ready to retire even at.
Jennifer Hawkins (30:51):
The Gen X level.
Tim Staton (30:51):
I was not even tracking that at all and it hit me by surprise.
So I know if it hit me by surprise, it's hitting everybody else by surprise.
So I appreciate all the work that you do and thanks for joining us today.
Jennifer Hawkins (31:00):
Well, thank you so much, Tim. It was my pleasure.
I really enjoyed my time with you.
Thank you for all you do as well.
Tim Staton (31:06):
Thank you. As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll be alerted.
(31:29):
Please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. Stay in the obvious.
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