October 3, 2025 • 23 mins
Imagine a neurodivergent workplace where everyone thrives, no matter how their brain works. In this episode, Tim Staton and coach Rita Ramakrishnan explore neurodivergence in the workplace, with a focus on C-suite executives and neurodivergent leadership, revealing the incredible strengths often overlooked.
This powerful conversation with Tim Staton and Rita Ramakrishnan challenges how we think about being neurodivergent in the workplace. Rita shares her personal journey as a neurodivergent individual, highlighting the profound strengths that often go unrecognized in a neurodivergent workplace. We discuss moving past outdated ideas of “neurodivergent accommodations in the workplace” to truly embracing the unique gifts of cognitive diversity – from extraordinary creativity to unique problem-solving. Feel inspired to create environments where every leader can bring their full, authentic self to work. Discover how self-awareness and practical routines can transform professional lives, including answers to common questions like: What does neurodivergent mean? Are autistic people neurodivergent? How to explain autism in the workplace? And how does autism spectrum disorder manifest in the workplace?
If this resonated, please share it. Let’s build a more understanding and supportive world for all leaders.
Connect With Rita
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritaram/
Website: https://www.iksana.com/
Contact: https://www.iksana.com/contact
Connect with Tim:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
Instagram: @TimStating
Tiktok: @timstatingtheobvious
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Staton (00:02):
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's to church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable advice.
Rita Ramakrishnan (00:25):
And a quick disclaimer. The show process or service by trademark, trademark, manufacturer, otherwise
does not necessarily constitute an apply the endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors them in representation.
The views are expressed here in my show, are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to another episode.
In today's episode, we're going to be talking about neurodivergent leadership and how that presents itself in the workplace. Today.
Rita is going to join us and she's going to tell us about all the work that she's been doing
with her coaching and her expertise in this subject field.
So, Rita, welcome to the episode.
Rita Ramakrishnan (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to dig in.
Tim Staton (00:58):
Awesome. So if you don't mind, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and then how
you came into this type of coaching and career.
Rita Ramakrishnan (01:06):
Sounds great. Yeah. So, Rita Ramakrishnan.
I've been in the broader workforce, primarily in the human capital space, for the past 15, 16 years.
I was most recently, I guess my last corporate job was chief people officer of a technology company.
But over the past several years, I've also been building out my own coaching and consulting practice.
(01:29):
And executive coaching is very well known as a modality to support leaders to sort of be the
best versions of themselves, to accelerate their impact and amplify their potential.
But as I dug into the space, the area that I became most curious and passionate about is neurodivergent
coaching and how we might support neurodivergent leaders in the workplace.
(01:51):
And that's for two reasons.
One is I'm neurodivergent myself, and I've had many executive coaches in my past.
So thinking about how to support leaders like myself more effectively is something that I've always been passionate about.
But there's also just a larger emerging population that is getting diagnosed later in life and
realizing that they are neurodivergent and having to make sense of it for themselves.
Tim Staton (02:11):
So just so we're all on the same page, can you define what neurodivergent is?
Rita Ramakrishnan (02:17):
Yeah. So I would think about it in terms of how your brain Processes information.
So neurotypical folks will typically take inputs in from their environment, from conversation,
whatever that looks like, they'll process it a specific way, and the outputs look a specific way.
And historically, what we've accepted to be true is the vast majority of people on this planet
(02:39):
process information in a fairly linear way.
Neurodivergent folks have brains that naturally process information a little bit differently. We've often pathologized this.
I would think about conditions like adhd, autism spectrum disorder, synesthesia.
So there are lots of different presentations.
You know, there's hsp, which is, you know, highly sensitive folks, and how they process sensory
(03:03):
inputs coming in from the environment around them.
But however this presents, you're looking at a group of people whose brains naturally process
the information just a little bit differently.
And how that shows up in terms of their strengths and how they approach problems and how they
engage with people looks oftentimes a little bit different.
Tim Staton (03:19):
Okay, awesome. So when, when we talk about neurodivergent in the workplace, what does that look
like and how does it present itself?
So let's say somebody's like, I have no idea what this looks like or what you're talking about.
How does that look and present in the workplace?
Rita Ramakrishnan (03:36):
I want to move backwards and think about this.
I think a lot of folks can understand this principle a lot more when you're thinking about children.
So when we think about schools, you know, ADHD children relative to neurotypical children and
how they may show up, you've got the presentation around hyperactivity.
That tends to be a little bit more common in boys.
So how that shows up for them is how they engage with other people, how they engage and operate
(04:00):
in a classroom where they get overexcited.
There's also the inattentive type, which oftentimes is more present with women who have ADHD and little girls.
And how that might show up looks a little bit different in the classroom.
So take those principles and apply them to the workplace.
These are folks that might respond to conversations a little bit different.
They may seem impatient at moments.
(04:21):
They may jump ahead very frequently in a conversation, like three steps ahead, whereas other
folks may be a few steps earlier.
In that logical progression of thought, you might notice moments of significant hyper focus with them.
They'll like, get an idea in their head, or they'll have a task that they dig into and you can't
pry them away from that.
You might also have moments, whether you have ADHD or you're working with folks who have ADHD
(04:45):
where they don't seem as focused, they're having a really hard time getting their claws into
something and digging deep into it.
So the way it presents it looks different in meetings.
The way people engage in meetings, how they enjoy the topical conversation and participate in it might look different.
I think we're starting to move away also just from language around neurotypical and neurodivergent.
I think what we're starting to understand is there's a little bit of a difference in the way
(05:09):
we all process information, Whether it's information processing speed or pattern recognition.
All of these things exist on various spectrums.
And so I do think we're going to be moving more towards the language of cognitive diversity
and acknowledging that we all work just a little bit differently.
And what that does is it invites a conversation around practices that we have that we've always
(05:30):
taken for granted as effective and moves us to a place where we can debate those a little bit
and say, actually, I think I'd be more effective if we changed it this way.
Tim Staton (05:38):
I like that that word cognitive diversity more so than neurodivergent.
And I heard neurodivergent, honestly, probably about a year ago, and I had never heard that term before.
I heard it just last year, and I was like, oh, let me look it up.
And I had been looking for someone to talk to about this topic, primarily because of my own family history.
(06:02):
And I was like, I want to know more about it.
And then now you said cognitive, you know, diversity, which I think is even better.
So in your coaching experience, what are the primary things that you're like, you know what?
These are the things that we need to focus on.
Rita Ramakrishnan (06:21):
Yeah. So I'd say the number one thing oftentimes when folks get diagnosed and they bring that
conversation up in the workplace, the entire conversation focuses on accommodation and tolerance.
So these are problems that I have in the workplace as a result of X condition or X form of neurodivergence,
or the way I process information differently.
And they say, okay, what do you need in order to perform?
(06:41):
And the biggest shift I would like to see happen.
There are absolutely challenges associated with different forms of neurodivergence.
I will acknowledge that I have those myself.
But there are an extraordinary set of strengths, skill clusters, even.
You can think about it that way.
That are more prevalent with folks who have cognitive diversity who are neurodivergent.
(07:01):
And what I want to see happen is us move to a conversation around strengths.
How might we harness these strengths so that the individual is performing at their best, that
they're able to operate in a more natural way.
And that not just they benefit from it, their teams benefit from it, but the organization at large benefits from it.
You know, we know that bringing diverse perspectives into the workplace is huge in terms of
(07:25):
driving competitive advantage for the business.
So when we stop thinking about things as something to be accommodated and start changing that
language to how might we harness those strengths?
How might we enable you to be the best version of yourself, to operate at your best?
How I think everyone just benefits.
So I think that's something that's really important to me and that natural component.
(07:47):
You know, there's a sense of being at ease.
Most folks who are neurodivergent who have some form of cognitive diversity, they're masters at fitting in. So.
Tim Staton (07:56):
So let's talk about that a little bit.
Right, Because I, I love the fact that you're where you're heading with this, with when we're talking about strengths.
I absolutely agree a thousand percent. Those are huge strengths.
So let's talk a little bit about those strengths and then how you know that can add to the competitive
advantage of a business or an organization.
Rita Ramakrishnan (08:17):
So I would say some of the most prevalent strengths I see with my clients is around information processing.
So specifically information processing speed, the ability to widen the aperture in terms of
the data you're utilizing to come up with conclusions.
So it influences the quality of decision making.
I would say creativity and creative problem solving tends to be something that comes up quite
(08:38):
bite thin as well, the ability to ask questions that no one else has thought of.
So digging into problems differently and pattern recognition.
So folks who are neurodivergent can oftentimes identify patterns that may not naturally come
to other folks or may not seem obvious, but they ask the questions around those patterns and
they're able to evoke some awareness amongst their peers, amongst the broader organization that
(09:00):
can lend itself to higher quality product development. Right.
Like digging in with your customers differently.
Solving for an obvious problem in new and novel ways.
And so these are true strengths that are competitive advantages for the individual and certainly
for the organization if they know how to harness it.
Tim Staton (09:16):
Well, no, absolutely. And I love how you frame that because everything you know that I have
seen and found, everyone focuses on the negative part, the accommodations piece.
And, and even, even in from like an HR perspective, it was like, okay, well what accommodations do you need?
And, and I look at it from a human perspective, right? What is it?
(09:40):
What conditions do you perform best in?
And that's something I would ask of anybody.
So for this type, especially when we Talk about, you know, sensitive people.
Not that, because, you know, like lights, sounds and stuff like that.
How can we start to think about that differently from an organization standpoint or a leadership
(10:05):
standpoint to really help people perform better?
Rita Ramakrishnan (10:08):
That's a great question. I would say let's just start by acknowledging the spaces in which you
operate have a significant influence in how you perform in those spaces. Right.
Throw me or some of my clients into a room that's super busy, lots of colors, too much art,
lots of noise, and it's going to be really hard for us to focus.
The kinds of tools that we would need in order to focus and think with clarity is going to be a bit more challenging.
(10:31):
And so even as you're bringing new joiners in, you know, as you're walking them around in orientation,
checking in with them and just saying, hey, how are you enjoying this space? I'm curious, what are.
When you think about when you're at your best, what do those spaces look like?
You know, where have you performed your best?
I would say when we think about office design, right, like part of designing a workforce for
(10:52):
the future is identifying the spaces in which you operate, whether that's hybrid, remote or
whatever, and saying, how might we support you as an organization?
And I think this is a really important framework for HR teams as well.
Being an HR practitioner myself is asking the question, which is, how do we support you to operate at your very best?
And if that means we have more neutral colors or we have designated quiet spaces, we make sure
(11:16):
that, you know, it's okay, you have flexibility in your, in your schedule.
If you need to take a beat, go for a walk in the middle of the day, do what you got to do.
Do you need noise canceling headphones?
Like, that's a very low cost way to support all types of neurodivergence, all types of cognitive
diversity and environmental processing in the workplace as well.
So thinking about that neutral space and small changes you can make and just asking people questions,
(11:39):
operating from a place of curiosity and seeking to understand is probably the best first step.
Tim Staton (11:44):
That's great. It's. So when I think about this as well, I also think about it from a standpoint
of oftentimes, people may not equate people with neurodivergency as being executives and as being leaders.
And I want to dispel that myth because I know that it's all over the place. High achievers everywhere.
(12:04):
And in your coaching, what are some tools and techniques?
Because sometimes maybe someone's like, hey, you know what?
Like I just found out, like I've got ADHD or I've got add, or I have this, and I've noticed
that I struggle with X, Y and Z.
What are like the top three things that you notice that people need help with and what's something
(12:26):
that somebody can implement today to help solve that problem?
Rita Ramakrishnan (12:30):
So I would say top three things to think about.
All of my clients, I work with them to develop what I call the mvr, which is your minimum viable routine.
And so that is think about your day and the things that absolutely need to happen.
So for folks who have adhd, sometimes, you know, you need a little bit of unpredictability and
space, space to move around and be flexible with how you spend your time.
(12:50):
But there are some basic things that you need to have met and so identifying those conditions
that need to be met that you absolutely can't forget, no matter what type of mood or headspace
you're in, and then creating support structures around that.
So I'll give you an example which is most of my clients will talk like, vigorous exercise is
actually a very helpful tool for people to self regulate for you, to help regulate your dopamine in your brain.
(13:15):
You know, start operating with a little bit more intention throughout the day.
So we sort of talk about what does exercise look like for you in a way that's inclusive for
your body and the way in which you move.
And we think about how to plug that in throughout the week.
So that's part of their minimal viable routine.
Something else for me, for example, like walking my dog, feeding my dog, giving him his meds
every single day, that's super important.
(13:35):
And if I'm hyper focused on a task, God forbid it happens, like I might forget to feed him on time.
So automating some of those things. I have automatic feeders.
I have a water fountain that's constantly like putting out clean, filtered, cool water for him.
I have a dog walker that comes at specific moments in the day where he absolutely needs to go out.
So that's no matter what that stasis.
And then I can sort of add and supplement that as well, whatever that looks like for each individual.
(13:59):
I would say having a minimal viable routine is pretty crucial and just making sure that your
space at work and at home is supportive of that.
So what reminders do you need in your space?
The second piece I would say is like energy management.
So when I start with any clients, I start to ask them a couple of things.
I say start tracking for the next few weeks.
When are you at Peak energy.
When does your energy kind of slump?
(14:21):
And think about the tasks that you dig into?
What are the things that came super easily to you, and when were you most energized by those tasks?
Over the next few weeks, think about the meetings and the work that you're in and just track
how you're feeling throughout different parts of the day.
And so coming out of that, a really important tool is designing your day around your energy flow. So.
So I have a client who there's a specific type of meeting that she has to have, really around
(14:42):
the schmoozing and sort of engaging with different types of stakeholders to build relationships.
And what we figured out is when her energy is depleting throughout the day typically happens
at a specific point during the week.
She tries to move all of those meetings to those times in the week.
She's, you know, very energized and hyper focused around 10am so anything around deep work and
deep thinking, we try to carve out space during that period of time for her to do that.
(15:05):
So those are some small, small initial tools that are really helpful.
And then the third piece is around somatic awareness.
When we think about when you're feeling regulated and dysregulated, sometimes it's hard to pull
yourself off of the dance floor and into the balcony and say, when is that happening?
But if you pay attention to what's happening in your body.
For example, I know I make my worst decisions when I'm angry, but recognizing what that feels
(15:27):
like, I have a tightness in my chest.
My palms might start sweating.
I might have some frenetic energy that's coming up.
My voice might be shaky.
Being able to negotiate and understand these, like, physical things puts you in a position of
power because you can recognize when things are coming on and then you can make better decisions around that.
So those are like three sorts of small things that I would say to start with that really helps
(15:48):
people take control of their environment and harness those strengths.
Tim Staton (15:52):
That I would say for everybody that's incredibly, you know, critical too.
You know, not even people who are neurodivergent.
So I have something, what I call a battle rhythm, right?
My daily routine, what I got to do.
And if there's something off in that routine that doesn't go right, the rest of my day is pretty much blown.
(16:13):
And it takes a minute to come back on that.
So I'm really glad that you honed in on that about that minimum variable routine. And then.
And then also the park, you said it was the somatic resonance Somatic awareness? Yeah, somatic awareness.
Can you just touch on that a little bit of like, what is that?
Rita Ramakrishnan (16:33):
Yeah. So soma is your body. It's.
It's the sensations you feel in your body.
And so I would say for everyone, I think this is really important, even if I work with, quote
unquote, neurotypical clients, but a lot of dysregulation.
When we think about a person who's neurodivergent, sometimes one of the things that comes up
is different styles of emotional processing.
(16:54):
So you might have delayed emotional processing, you might have very heavy handed emotional processing.
Your body might shut down, it might avalanche later on. So.
So just being able to understand what's happening in your body at any given moment puts you
in greater control of the situations that you're in.
So what does it feel like when you're regulated? Are you breathing easier?
What does your posture look like?
When are you at ease?
(17:15):
How does that feel in your body, in your mind?
Cultivating small mindfulness practices as well throughout the day.
So like just a one minute meditation, Close your eyes and feel the temperature of the air going
up into your nose and into your lungs and coming back out helps you identify different sensations
that are going on in your body at that time.
So you can say, what does this feel like?
(17:37):
Oh, I might be a little bit out of focus right now.
I'm having a really hard time concentrating.
How is that showing up in my body?
Well, my hands are a little bit shaky right now and I'm easily distracted by everything that's happening around me.
Okay, what does that tell me about my state of regulation?
Oh, like I have butterfly feelings in my stomach right now.
Okay, when else has that cropped up for you in the past?
(17:58):
And what did you do to get yourself back to a place of stasis, of equilibrium?
And so being able to be in tune with your body naturally helps you be in tune with your emotional states.
It allows you to connect to yourself in a different way, to sort of understand where you at
at any given moment and make choices for yourself relative to that moment based on what you
(18:20):
need to get done or where you need to, to be.
Tim Staton (18:23):
That's a, that's an awesome definition of what it is.
And I think everybody needs to go back and relisten to everything that you just said, because
I think what a better place the world would be is everyone just kind of got more self aware
about themselves and how they're feeling and then let that emotional connection take place as well.
So that way we can interact Better as people.
(18:44):
So Rita, is there anything that I didn't ask you or talk about that you're like, you know what?
I really have a burning desire to talk about whatever it is.
Rita Ramakrishnan (18:57):
You know, I think the one thing that I, I do want to address is I, I still think, I think in
tech neurodivergence and cognitive diversity is very well represented when we think about different
founder types and leaders in tech.
It exists, actually does exist in spades and other industries as well and at other spaces.
But there is still, still very much a stigma associated with this concept of being neurodivergent.
(19:18):
And folks get really anxious about self disclosure.
You know, is it okay? Is it not okay?
Will people think differently about me?
And so I do want to bring that up because you can't address something unless you understand it.
And I think we as a community, like more broadly, as organizations, we do have a duty to open
ourselves up and to hold space and create space safety around this concept.
(19:41):
Whoever you are, whatever cognitive diversity you bring, we support that.
We want you to be successful.
We're successful if you're successful.
And so if you'd like to engage in a conversation around how you perform best, let's engage in
that conversation and extending that well beyond folks who have diagnoses and things like that.
And just asking that of all employees and just saying, hey, where do you think best?
(20:03):
How does it feel when you're performing your best work?
What are the things that are energizing for you and depleting for you? How.
How do you perform best in a meeting?
Should we be instituting agendas in certain types of meetings or giving reading materials in
advance to help processing whatever that looks like, but engaging in practices that reduce the
stigma around cognitive diversity, operating from a place of curiosity and creating the safety
(20:24):
for people to advocate for themselves and their needs and engage in those thoughtful conversations?
I think is really important.
Tim Staton (20:31):
The. No, absolutely. And you bring up a great point.
And as you were talking about that, you reminded me of a coworker that I used to work with very recently.
And I noticed that he was struggling a lot, you know, to, to, to really like, not necessarily
get stuff done, but it was taking a lot of, a lot of time.
(20:51):
And I kept talking to him like, hey, is like everything okay? Anything you needed?
And he didn't want to self disclose certain disabilities that he was having because of the environment.
And he was a lawyer and he had pride in himself.
Like, hey, I went through law school without any accommodations.
I went through X amount of years without any type of accommodations.
(21:14):
And I was like, yeah, but you're like making life harder on yourself. Right?
So I agree with you.
I think we need to definitely bring awareness to this and make life better for everybody. Right?
Rita Ramakrishnan (21:27):
Right.
Tim Staton (21:27):
How can we make the environment in the workplace more inclusive for everybody so everyone can do their best work?
Because like you said, the whole everything's going to be better at the end of the day if everyone's
at the top of their game.
And and I really appreciate everything that you brought to the table today.
You know, your techniques and everything else that you brought.
(21:48):
So, Rita, it was a pleasure meeting you.
It was great talking with you and everyone listening to this. Go in the comments.
I'll have her contact information and all the stuff there that you can reach out to her.
If you're looking for some coaching or you need some tips or something, reach out to her because
she's going to have your back.
Syretta, thank you so much for being here.
Rita Ramakrishnan (22:09):
Thank you so much for having me and for such an enjoyable conversation. I really appreciate it.
Tim Staton (22:13):
Absolutely. Thank you. As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll
(22:37):
be alerted, please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, this thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. Staten the Obvious
(23:17):
it.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership.
Everywhere you go, whether it's to church, whether it's to work, whether it's at your house,
you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday, relatable and usable advice.
Rita Ramakrishnan (00:25):
And a quick disclaimer. The show process or service by trademark, trademark, manufacturer, otherwise
does not necessarily constitute an apply the endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors them in representation.
The views are expressed here in my show, are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim Staton (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to another episode.
In today's episode, we're going to be talking about neurodivergent leadership and how that presents itself in the workplace. Today.
Rita is going to join us and she's going to tell us about all the work that she's been doing
with her coaching and her expertise in this subject field.
So, Rita, welcome to the episode.
Rita Ramakrishnan (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to dig in.
Tim Staton (00:58):
Awesome. So if you don't mind, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and then how
you came into this type of coaching and career.
Rita Ramakrishnan (01:06):
Sounds great. Yeah. So, Rita Ramakrishnan.
I've been in the broader workforce, primarily in the human capital space, for the past 15, 16 years.
I was most recently, I guess my last corporate job was chief people officer of a technology company.
But over the past several years, I've also been building out my own coaching and consulting practice.
(01:29):
And executive coaching is very well known as a modality to support leaders to sort of be the
best versions of themselves, to accelerate their impact and amplify their potential.
But as I dug into the space, the area that I became most curious and passionate about is neurodivergent
coaching and how we might support neurodivergent leaders in the workplace.
(01:51):
And that's for two reasons.
One is I'm neurodivergent myself, and I've had many executive coaches in my past.
So thinking about how to support leaders like myself more effectively is something that I've always been passionate about.
But there's also just a larger emerging population that is getting diagnosed later in life and
realizing that they are neurodivergent and having to make sense of it for themselves.
Tim Staton (02:11):
So just so we're all on the same page, can you define what neurodivergent is?
Rita Ramakrishnan (02:17):
Yeah. So I would think about it in terms of how your brain Processes information.
So neurotypical folks will typically take inputs in from their environment, from conversation,
whatever that looks like, they'll process it a specific way, and the outputs look a specific way.
And historically, what we've accepted to be true is the vast majority of people on this planet
(02:39):
process information in a fairly linear way.
Neurodivergent folks have brains that naturally process information a little bit differently. We've often pathologized this.
I would think about conditions like adhd, autism spectrum disorder, synesthesia.
So there are lots of different presentations.
You know, there's hsp, which is, you know, highly sensitive folks, and how they process sensory
(03:03):
inputs coming in from the environment around them.
But however this presents, you're looking at a group of people whose brains naturally process
the information just a little bit differently.
And how that shows up in terms of their strengths and how they approach problems and how they
engage with people looks oftentimes a little bit different.
Tim Staton (03:19):
Okay, awesome. So when, when we talk about neurodivergent in the workplace, what does that look
like and how does it present itself?
So let's say somebody's like, I have no idea what this looks like or what you're talking about.
How does that look and present in the workplace?
Rita Ramakrishnan (03:36):
I want to move backwards and think about this.
I think a lot of folks can understand this principle a lot more when you're thinking about children.
So when we think about schools, you know, ADHD children relative to neurotypical children and
how they may show up, you've got the presentation around hyperactivity.
That tends to be a little bit more common in boys.
So how that shows up for them is how they engage with other people, how they engage and operate
(04:00):
in a classroom where they get overexcited.
There's also the inattentive type, which oftentimes is more present with women who have ADHD and little girls.
And how that might show up looks a little bit different in the classroom.
So take those principles and apply them to the workplace.
These are folks that might respond to conversations a little bit different.
They may seem impatient at moments.
(04:21):
They may jump ahead very frequently in a conversation, like three steps ahead, whereas other
folks may be a few steps earlier.
In that logical progression of thought, you might notice moments of significant hyper focus with them.
They'll like, get an idea in their head, or they'll have a task that they dig into and you can't
pry them away from that.
You might also have moments, whether you have ADHD or you're working with folks who have ADHD
(04:45):
where they don't seem as focused, they're having a really hard time getting their claws into
something and digging deep into it.
So the way it presents it looks different in meetings.
The way people engage in meetings, how they enjoy the topical conversation and participate in it might look different.
I think we're starting to move away also just from language around neurotypical and neurodivergent.
I think what we're starting to understand is there's a little bit of a difference in the way
(05:09):
we all process information, Whether it's information processing speed or pattern recognition.
All of these things exist on various spectrums.
And so I do think we're going to be moving more towards the language of cognitive diversity
and acknowledging that we all work just a little bit differently.
And what that does is it invites a conversation around practices that we have that we've always
(05:30):
taken for granted as effective and moves us to a place where we can debate those a little bit
and say, actually, I think I'd be more effective if we changed it this way.
Tim Staton (05:38):
I like that that word cognitive diversity more so than neurodivergent.
And I heard neurodivergent, honestly, probably about a year ago, and I had never heard that term before.
I heard it just last year, and I was like, oh, let me look it up.
And I had been looking for someone to talk to about this topic, primarily because of my own family history.
(06:02):
And I was like, I want to know more about it.
And then now you said cognitive, you know, diversity, which I think is even better.
So in your coaching experience, what are the primary things that you're like, you know what?
These are the things that we need to focus on.
Rita Ramakrishnan (06:21):
Yeah. So I'd say the number one thing oftentimes when folks get diagnosed and they bring that
conversation up in the workplace, the entire conversation focuses on accommodation and tolerance.
So these are problems that I have in the workplace as a result of X condition or X form of neurodivergence,
or the way I process information differently.
And they say, okay, what do you need in order to perform?
(06:41):
And the biggest shift I would like to see happen.
There are absolutely challenges associated with different forms of neurodivergence.
I will acknowledge that I have those myself.
But there are an extraordinary set of strengths, skill clusters, even.
You can think about it that way.
That are more prevalent with folks who have cognitive diversity who are neurodivergent.
(07:01):
And what I want to see happen is us move to a conversation around strengths.
How might we harness these strengths so that the individual is performing at their best, that
they're able to operate in a more natural way.
And that not just they benefit from it, their teams benefit from it, but the organization at large benefits from it.
You know, we know that bringing diverse perspectives into the workplace is huge in terms of
(07:25):
driving competitive advantage for the business.
So when we stop thinking about things as something to be accommodated and start changing that
language to how might we harness those strengths?
How might we enable you to be the best version of yourself, to operate at your best?
How I think everyone just benefits.
So I think that's something that's really important to me and that natural component.
(07:47):
You know, there's a sense of being at ease.
Most folks who are neurodivergent who have some form of cognitive diversity, they're masters at fitting in. So.
Tim Staton (07:56):
So let's talk about that a little bit.
Right, Because I, I love the fact that you're where you're heading with this, with when we're talking about strengths.
I absolutely agree a thousand percent. Those are huge strengths.
So let's talk a little bit about those strengths and then how you know that can add to the competitive
advantage of a business or an organization.
Rita Ramakrishnan (08:17):
So I would say some of the most prevalent strengths I see with my clients is around information processing.
So specifically information processing speed, the ability to widen the aperture in terms of
the data you're utilizing to come up with conclusions.
So it influences the quality of decision making.
I would say creativity and creative problem solving tends to be something that comes up quite
(08:38):
bite thin as well, the ability to ask questions that no one else has thought of.
So digging into problems differently and pattern recognition.
So folks who are neurodivergent can oftentimes identify patterns that may not naturally come
to other folks or may not seem obvious, but they ask the questions around those patterns and
they're able to evoke some awareness amongst their peers, amongst the broader organization that
(09:00):
can lend itself to higher quality product development. Right.
Like digging in with your customers differently.
Solving for an obvious problem in new and novel ways.
And so these are true strengths that are competitive advantages for the individual and certainly
for the organization if they know how to harness it.
Tim Staton (09:16):
Well, no, absolutely. And I love how you frame that because everything you know that I have
seen and found, everyone focuses on the negative part, the accommodations piece.
And, and even, even in from like an HR perspective, it was like, okay, well what accommodations do you need?
And, and I look at it from a human perspective, right? What is it?
(09:40):
What conditions do you perform best in?
And that's something I would ask of anybody.
So for this type, especially when we Talk about, you know, sensitive people.
Not that, because, you know, like lights, sounds and stuff like that.
How can we start to think about that differently from an organization standpoint or a leadership
(10:05):
standpoint to really help people perform better?
Rita Ramakrishnan (10:08):
That's a great question. I would say let's just start by acknowledging the spaces in which you
operate have a significant influence in how you perform in those spaces. Right.
Throw me or some of my clients into a room that's super busy, lots of colors, too much art,
lots of noise, and it's going to be really hard for us to focus.
The kinds of tools that we would need in order to focus and think with clarity is going to be a bit more challenging.
(10:31):
And so even as you're bringing new joiners in, you know, as you're walking them around in orientation,
checking in with them and just saying, hey, how are you enjoying this space? I'm curious, what are.
When you think about when you're at your best, what do those spaces look like?
You know, where have you performed your best?
I would say when we think about office design, right, like part of designing a workforce for
(10:52):
the future is identifying the spaces in which you operate, whether that's hybrid, remote or
whatever, and saying, how might we support you as an organization?
And I think this is a really important framework for HR teams as well.
Being an HR practitioner myself is asking the question, which is, how do we support you to operate at your very best?
And if that means we have more neutral colors or we have designated quiet spaces, we make sure
(11:16):
that, you know, it's okay, you have flexibility in your, in your schedule.
If you need to take a beat, go for a walk in the middle of the day, do what you got to do.
Do you need noise canceling headphones?
Like, that's a very low cost way to support all types of neurodivergence, all types of cognitive
diversity and environmental processing in the workplace as well.
So thinking about that neutral space and small changes you can make and just asking people questions,
(11:39):
operating from a place of curiosity and seeking to understand is probably the best first step.
Tim Staton (11:44):
That's great. It's. So when I think about this as well, I also think about it from a standpoint
of oftentimes, people may not equate people with neurodivergency as being executives and as being leaders.
And I want to dispel that myth because I know that it's all over the place. High achievers everywhere.
(12:04):
And in your coaching, what are some tools and techniques?
Because sometimes maybe someone's like, hey, you know what?
Like I just found out, like I've got ADHD or I've got add, or I have this, and I've noticed
that I struggle with X, Y and Z.
What are like the top three things that you notice that people need help with and what's something
(12:26):
that somebody can implement today to help solve that problem?
Rita Ramakrishnan (12:30):
So I would say top three things to think about.
All of my clients, I work with them to develop what I call the mvr, which is your minimum viable routine.
And so that is think about your day and the things that absolutely need to happen.
So for folks who have adhd, sometimes, you know, you need a little bit of unpredictability and
space, space to move around and be flexible with how you spend your time.
(12:50):
But there are some basic things that you need to have met and so identifying those conditions
that need to be met that you absolutely can't forget, no matter what type of mood or headspace
you're in, and then creating support structures around that.
So I'll give you an example which is most of my clients will talk like, vigorous exercise is
actually a very helpful tool for people to self regulate for you, to help regulate your dopamine in your brain.
(13:15):
You know, start operating with a little bit more intention throughout the day.
So we sort of talk about what does exercise look like for you in a way that's inclusive for
your body and the way in which you move.
And we think about how to plug that in throughout the week.
So that's part of their minimal viable routine.
Something else for me, for example, like walking my dog, feeding my dog, giving him his meds
every single day, that's super important.
(13:35):
And if I'm hyper focused on a task, God forbid it happens, like I might forget to feed him on time.
So automating some of those things. I have automatic feeders.
I have a water fountain that's constantly like putting out clean, filtered, cool water for him.
I have a dog walker that comes at specific moments in the day where he absolutely needs to go out.
So that's no matter what that stasis.
And then I can sort of add and supplement that as well, whatever that looks like for each individual.
(13:59):
I would say having a minimal viable routine is pretty crucial and just making sure that your
space at work and at home is supportive of that.
So what reminders do you need in your space?
The second piece I would say is like energy management.
So when I start with any clients, I start to ask them a couple of things.
I say start tracking for the next few weeks.
When are you at Peak energy.
When does your energy kind of slump?
(14:21):
And think about the tasks that you dig into?
What are the things that came super easily to you, and when were you most energized by those tasks?
Over the next few weeks, think about the meetings and the work that you're in and just track
how you're feeling throughout different parts of the day.
And so coming out of that, a really important tool is designing your day around your energy flow. So.
So I have a client who there's a specific type of meeting that she has to have, really around
(14:42):
the schmoozing and sort of engaging with different types of stakeholders to build relationships.
And what we figured out is when her energy is depleting throughout the day typically happens
at a specific point during the week.
She tries to move all of those meetings to those times in the week.
She's, you know, very energized and hyper focused around 10am so anything around deep work and
deep thinking, we try to carve out space during that period of time for her to do that.
(15:05):
So those are some small, small initial tools that are really helpful.
And then the third piece is around somatic awareness.
When we think about when you're feeling regulated and dysregulated, sometimes it's hard to pull
yourself off of the dance floor and into the balcony and say, when is that happening?
But if you pay attention to what's happening in your body.
For example, I know I make my worst decisions when I'm angry, but recognizing what that feels
(15:27):
like, I have a tightness in my chest.
My palms might start sweating.
I might have some frenetic energy that's coming up.
My voice might be shaky.
Being able to negotiate and understand these, like, physical things puts you in a position of
power because you can recognize when things are coming on and then you can make better decisions around that.
So those are like three sorts of small things that I would say to start with that really helps
(15:48):
people take control of their environment and harness those strengths.
Tim Staton (15:52):
That I would say for everybody that's incredibly, you know, critical too.
You know, not even people who are neurodivergent.
So I have something, what I call a battle rhythm, right?
My daily routine, what I got to do.
And if there's something off in that routine that doesn't go right, the rest of my day is pretty much blown.
(16:13):
And it takes a minute to come back on that.
So I'm really glad that you honed in on that about that minimum variable routine. And then.
And then also the park, you said it was the somatic resonance Somatic awareness? Yeah, somatic awareness.
Can you just touch on that a little bit of like, what is that?
Rita Ramakrishnan (16:33):
Yeah. So soma is your body. It's.
It's the sensations you feel in your body.
And so I would say for everyone, I think this is really important, even if I work with, quote
unquote, neurotypical clients, but a lot of dysregulation.
When we think about a person who's neurodivergent, sometimes one of the things that comes up
is different styles of emotional processing.
(16:54):
So you might have delayed emotional processing, you might have very heavy handed emotional processing.
Your body might shut down, it might avalanche later on. So.
So just being able to understand what's happening in your body at any given moment puts you
in greater control of the situations that you're in.
So what does it feel like when you're regulated? Are you breathing easier?
What does your posture look like?
When are you at ease?
(17:15):
How does that feel in your body, in your mind?
Cultivating small mindfulness practices as well throughout the day.
So like just a one minute meditation, Close your eyes and feel the temperature of the air going
up into your nose and into your lungs and coming back out helps you identify different sensations
that are going on in your body at that time.
So you can say, what does this feel like?
(17:37):
Oh, I might be a little bit out of focus right now.
I'm having a really hard time concentrating.
How is that showing up in my body?
Well, my hands are a little bit shaky right now and I'm easily distracted by everything that's happening around me.
Okay, what does that tell me about my state of regulation?
Oh, like I have butterfly feelings in my stomach right now.
Okay, when else has that cropped up for you in the past?
(17:58):
And what did you do to get yourself back to a place of stasis, of equilibrium?
And so being able to be in tune with your body naturally helps you be in tune with your emotional states.
It allows you to connect to yourself in a different way, to sort of understand where you at
at any given moment and make choices for yourself relative to that moment based on what you
(18:20):
need to get done or where you need to, to be.
Tim Staton (18:23):
That's a, that's an awesome definition of what it is.
And I think everybody needs to go back and relisten to everything that you just said, because
I think what a better place the world would be is everyone just kind of got more self aware
about themselves and how they're feeling and then let that emotional connection take place as well.
So that way we can interact Better as people.
(18:44):
So Rita, is there anything that I didn't ask you or talk about that you're like, you know what?
I really have a burning desire to talk about whatever it is.
Rita Ramakrishnan (18:57):
You know, I think the one thing that I, I do want to address is I, I still think, I think in
tech neurodivergence and cognitive diversity is very well represented when we think about different
founder types and leaders in tech.
It exists, actually does exist in spades and other industries as well and at other spaces.
But there is still, still very much a stigma associated with this concept of being neurodivergent.
(19:18):
And folks get really anxious about self disclosure.
You know, is it okay? Is it not okay?
Will people think differently about me?
And so I do want to bring that up because you can't address something unless you understand it.
And I think we as a community, like more broadly, as organizations, we do have a duty to open
ourselves up and to hold space and create space safety around this concept.
(19:41):
Whoever you are, whatever cognitive diversity you bring, we support that.
We want you to be successful.
We're successful if you're successful.
And so if you'd like to engage in a conversation around how you perform best, let's engage in
that conversation and extending that well beyond folks who have diagnoses and things like that.
And just asking that of all employees and just saying, hey, where do you think best?
(20:03):
How does it feel when you're performing your best work?
What are the things that are energizing for you and depleting for you? How.
How do you perform best in a meeting?
Should we be instituting agendas in certain types of meetings or giving reading materials in
advance to help processing whatever that looks like, but engaging in practices that reduce the
stigma around cognitive diversity, operating from a place of curiosity and creating the safety
(20:24):
for people to advocate for themselves and their needs and engage in those thoughtful conversations?
I think is really important.
Tim Staton (20:31):
The. No, absolutely. And you bring up a great point.
And as you were talking about that, you reminded me of a coworker that I used to work with very recently.
And I noticed that he was struggling a lot, you know, to, to, to really like, not necessarily
get stuff done, but it was taking a lot of, a lot of time.
(20:51):
And I kept talking to him like, hey, is like everything okay? Anything you needed?
And he didn't want to self disclose certain disabilities that he was having because of the environment.
And he was a lawyer and he had pride in himself.
Like, hey, I went through law school without any accommodations.
I went through X amount of years without any type of accommodations.
(21:14):
And I was like, yeah, but you're like making life harder on yourself. Right?
So I agree with you.
I think we need to definitely bring awareness to this and make life better for everybody. Right?
Rita Ramakrishnan (21:27):
Right.
Tim Staton (21:27):
How can we make the environment in the workplace more inclusive for everybody so everyone can do their best work?
Because like you said, the whole everything's going to be better at the end of the day if everyone's
at the top of their game.
And and I really appreciate everything that you brought to the table today.
You know, your techniques and everything else that you brought.
(21:48):
So, Rita, it was a pleasure meeting you.
It was great talking with you and everyone listening to this. Go in the comments.
I'll have her contact information and all the stuff there that you can reach out to her.
If you're looking for some coaching or you need some tips or something, reach out to her because
she's going to have your back.
Syretta, thank you so much for being here.
Rita Ramakrishnan (22:09):
Thank you so much for having me and for such an enjoyable conversation. I really appreciate it.
Tim Staton (22:13):
Absolutely. Thank you. As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll
(22:37):
be alerted, please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, this thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. Staten the Obvious
(23:17):
it.
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