November 1, 2024 • 31 mins
Andrea Sampson, the CEO and founder of Talk Boutique, transitioned from a successful 25-year career in marketing and advertising to focus on thought leadership and coaching. Motivated by a desire to make a positive impact through storytelling and communication, she found that advertising no longer aligned with her values. She now coaches leaders and speakers, trains TEDx participants, and engages in initiatives centered on kindness, equity, and sustainability.
Sampson’s journey began with volunteering as a speaker’s coach for TEDx Toronto, inspired by individuals making significant contributions despite negative media narratives. Her advertising experience helped her guide speakers in crafting impactful presentations, leading to the creation of Talk Boutique. The company aims to transform experts into thought leaders through effective storytelling, ensuring diverse voices shape the future.
Tim highlights the crucial role of storytelling in business, illustrating how brands are narratives that resonate with consumers. Effective storytelling positions brands as relatable heroes, as seen with Apple and Nike. Similarly, storytelling enhances organizational leadership by improving communication and bridging gaps between self-perception and external perception. Strong communicators often make effective leaders, especially for emerging leaders who face challenges related to mistrust or uncertainty.
Furthermore, the importance of personal branding and authenticity is emphasized, urging leaders to align actions with stated values to maintain credibility. Sharing personal stories helps build a relatable brand and foster trust. Many employees struggle to understand their roles within an organization’s vision due to inadequate storytelling from leaders. Leaders are encouraged to evaluate and potentially rewrite their vision to be more aspirational and relatable, using storytelling frameworks like the “story spine” to craft engaging narratives that resonate with audiences.
Andrea Sampson underscores the power of storytelling in communication and encourages individuals to use personal narratives to enhance connections and strengthen leadership. She believes thought leadership is accessible to all and urges individuals to embrace their roles as thought leaders in their communities to contribute diverse perspectives to the future.
Andrea's Links:
Story Telling Framework: https://www.talkboutique.info/blank-page-bb6ca388-e9d8-43e5-8519-47ef9619f1c7
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/talkboutiqueinc/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/10447960
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@talk.boutique?si=94KcFVxOo4zN46_O
Tim's Social Interaction Platforms:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
Instagram: @TimStating
Tiktok: @timstatingtheobvious
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:01):
Hey, and welcome back to another episode.
I'm super excited about this episode today.
I know I've been saying that about a lot of episodes lately, and that's because I'm talking
to a lot of great people.
And today, we're gonna be talking to Andrea Sampson.
She is the CEO and founder of Talk Boutique.
She blends her astute listening skills and insights into human behavior to coach leaders and
(00:24):
speakers Andrea crafting impactful stories.
With over 2 decades in marketing and advertising, Andrea's prowess in connecting with audiences
has transitioned into her role as a TED trainer speaker coach, where she excels in making complex
technical subjects relatable and esteemed.
Her work extends to training Singularity University faculty globally and contributing to the
(00:50):
TEDx initiative, underlying her commitment to shaping a future marked by kindness, equity, and sustainability.
Through regular interviews with visionaries, Andrea fosters a dialogue on creating a better world starting now.
And with all of her expertise that she has, we had a great conversation about the art of storytelling
(01:11):
and why storytelling is so important.
Let's dive right now into the conversation that we just had.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's your church, whether it's
(01:31):
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Narrator (01:44):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark, trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
does not necessarily constitute and reply.
Indores of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim (01:55):
So, Andrea, hey, welcome to the show.
Andrea Sampson (01:58):
Thanks, Tim. I'm excited to be here.
Tim (02:00):
Hey. Good to have you on.
So we we just heard your impressive background, and and I just wanted to ask you, how did you
go from, you know, marketing and advertising into the thought leadership realm?
Andrea Sampson (02:13):
Yeah. So, you know, my story, I guess, is not all that unique, but unique in its own way in
that, you know, I spent most of my career in advertising, almost 25 years, working for some
of the largest agency networks in the world and some of the world's most recognizable brands.
But, you know, I came to a point in that career where I started to realize that it wasn't fitting who I was anymore.
(02:36):
When I came into that world, I had this deep desire to create an impact to, you know, somehow
influence the advertising that I was doing to make the world a little bit a better place.
And 25 years in, I started to realize, well, maybe that wasn't gonna happen.
You know, at the end of the day, advertising is about selling things.
(02:56):
And I was an idealist in a capitalist world, and I needed to I needed to make a change.
And so I started looking around thinking, you know, the skill set that I have, I it must be transferable to something else.
And I started doing some volunteer work in one of the places that I was very fortunate to be
(03:16):
volun hired, because I had to go through a full interview process, was as a speaker's coach for TEDx Toronto.
And now this was in the very, very early days of the TEDx Movement.
And two things, I was blown away that I could actually work with the brand and and was so excited
by that, but I had never heard of a speakers coach.
(03:38):
And I but, you know, the reality was I presented all day every day.
And so I thought, well, give me a little bit of training, and I can figure this out.
Well, that led to an entire realization.
First of all, I met people who were doing such amazing things in the world.
You know, these were people, scientists, academics, you know, technologists, artists.
(04:03):
They were changing the way that we saw our world, the way we interact with our world, and the humans we were becoming.
And they were showing me a world filled with hope.
And yet every time I opened a browser window and saw the latest news, I wasn't seeing that.
And in advertising, I thought I knew a lot, but this was a whole new world for me.
(04:27):
So I thought, wow, the world needs to know this because the reality is we're we often aren't given messages of hope.
And so seeing these incredible people, I I even though everybody has watched TED Talks, it was
a different way of seeing the world when you're inside the brand.
(04:48):
And I had this skill set I didn't know I had.
You know, as an in advertising, I was what's called a a planner, a Staton, and so my job was
doing a lot of consumer research.
And I used to have to take large swatches of data and distill it down into what we called key consumer insights.
Well, that skill was the very skill that these amazing humans on the TED stage needed to take
(05:12):
their life's work and turn it into a 15 minute talk.
And so I started to understand that there was this skill set that I had that I didn't realize
how powerful or how useful it could be.
Well, that led me to start to discover my own entrepreneurial streak.
(05:32):
And in doing that, understanding that I really wanted to help these people make the impact beyond
the TED stage because, you know, TED is a great platform, but if not by some, you know, fluke
of nature that they go viral, that 15 minutes on stage is gonna be the last time we hear from them.
And so I created my company, Talk Boutique, as a way to help those who have a message to tell
(05:58):
to do so with clarity and impact Andrea specifically to create the changes in the world that we wanna make.
And today, we're focused on taking experts and turning them into thought leaders by helping
them to become storytellers so that they can co create the future that we are all going to be
(06:19):
living in Andrea that future is largely created by those thought leaders.
So it's my mission to make sure that they are diverse,
Tim (06:27):
which is an amazing story on how you came from that industry to where you are today.
And it's incredibly implicable, I would say, to business and to leadership.
And before we dive into the that realm of questioning getting into that, can we just define
what storytelling is Andrea and how do you define that?
So that way people in the business context can relate to it.
Andrea Sampson (06:50):
Of course. So for me, storytelling is a way for us to create context, to use our lived experience,
whatever that may be, in a way to create an understanding of the things that we want others to know.
Now we tell stories all the Tim, and, of course, we grew up with our parents maybe reading us
(07:14):
bedtime stories or watching, you know, incredible, you know, narratives through, Hollywood action movies.
And these are all forms of storytelling.
But for the context of what I do, we use story as the way in which to convey important messages.
And so story, as I said earlier, acts as the context, the backdrop that helps us to understand
(07:43):
the more complex details in an understandable way through our own lived experience.
Tim (07:50):
I love that definition about how it creates the context.
So with with that context, how has storytelling historically influenced the development and identity of brands?
Andrea Sampson (08:01):
Well, I mean, brands, you know, if you if you read I I actually, I'm I'm in the process right now of reading.
I use all, Harari's latest book Nexus, and and Sapiens before that, and Homode Diaz all talk
about story, in the context of organizations and brands in that they that's all they are.
They are a story, a story we tell ourselves.
(08:23):
We create, these brands through imbuing story on them, which creates a narrative about them.
And that narrative in many in in when done well, you know, because not all brands are done well,
but when done well, that narrative creates a hero for us to, in some way connect with.
(08:46):
If we think of brands like Apple as an example, and I I use that one very specifically because
it's a brand that we've seen go through many different iterations of its of itself.
In the early days of Apple, it was the, it was the brand that was, going up against the the big guys. Right?
(09:07):
They were just a little company out there with this idea.
And in those days, it was IBM and then eventually Microsoft that they were going up against.
And they they put themselves as the, you know, the the the the alternate choice for those who
saw themselves in a certain way, the challenger brand.
(09:28):
And so, you know, when I when I think about Apple, it is and back in those days, it defined
itself as creative tools for creative people in in a time when computers were not seen as creative,
but simply a business tool.
Well, Apple has gone on to take that positioning, that idea of creative tools for creative people
(09:50):
Andrea has now turned it into an entire brand that is built about being think differently.
And so, you know, what it says to us, if you see yourself as being different from the status
quo, if you see yourself as being creative, if you see yourself as wanting more in the world,
(10:12):
then Apple is the story, insert brand here, for you.
And so brands are stories, and, you know, they're simply, as we used to say in the branding world, an empty vessel.
It's what you fill it with that makes it impactful.
Tim (10:29):
When you're when you're telling that that story about Apple, it instantly brought to mind a movie.
I can't remember the name of it, but it had Mel Gibson in it and another lady, and they're working
for I think it's Nike or working for I think it's Nike or a shoe company, and they're a brand company.
And and so they're talking about how to come up with a story Yep.
About they're not just marketing the item.
They're marketing a story and a lifestyle change.
(10:54):
And can you elaborate on that a little bit more?
Andrea Sampson (10:57):
Yeah. So, again, it comes back to what is the story we you know, in advertising, you know, we
always get to say people don't buy what they need.
They buy what they want.
And so in in order to create desire, because that's really what you're doing with advertising,
you're building a story that somebody wants to be a part of.
(11:19):
So when you're creating that brand story, what you're doing is building out all the details
that somebody would be thinking about in terms of I would like to be. It's aspirational. Right? All brands.
You don't want a brand to be about the here and now because I can have that right now. It's attainable for me.
(11:40):
But who do I want to become? That's the aspiration.
And so the story that many brands tell are this aspiration. Think of Nike.
Andrea fact, in that I think that was called What A Woman Wants is what I think that movie was.
And the the story of Nike. Right?
If we if we look at, you know, the the tagline of just do it. Right?
(12:02):
And it started off as a as an action oriented tagline.
Taglines are really the space within the consumer's mind that you want to own, and so with Nike,
they wanted to own action, and so just do it was a way, a shortcut to get you to action.
And so in terms of of building out an aspiration around that, well, today, maybe I'm, you know,
(12:29):
a young a young person who doesn't see them sell as being incredibly fit or incredibly athletic.
But what the the Nike brand is saying to me, well, if you buy my product if you bought buy the
Nike product and you wear it, it will give you the motivation to become the thing that you want
to become, the the place you want to be in the future that you're not today.
(12:52):
So when you're wearing those Nike shoes, it's the reminder of go out and run.
And when you're wearing those that Nike clothing line, you're conveying to others like you that
you have the same belief.
So you're creating a, a tribe, a community of people who are all thinking the same way.
And so Nike is owning that story in your brain through that tagline of just do it. It's about action.
(13:17):
It's about aspiration to where I want to be.
So that's the story that they're building around you.
And so this is what brands do.
They look for the aspiration.
What is it you want to become?
What is it that the consumer you know, I talk about the research we used to do.
That was what we were looking for.
And what's the core consumer insight?
What is the unmet need or the unmet desire that that consumer has that this brand could fulfill
(13:42):
that it in some way is contributing towards?
And so we look for those, and then in finding that insight, we build a story around that insight
of how the consumer can go from where they are today to where they wanna be through the brand
itself by interacting or buying or owning that brand.
Tim (14:04):
Which which brings me to the this next question.
We talked about the overarching picture of organizational brands and and branding, but let's
take it down a level to, like, the leader level.
How does storytelling inside an organization help better leadership and help better the organization?
And what are the stories that we should be telling that we're not?
Andrea Sampson (14:27):
Well, it's a you know, it that's a layered question.
And let me sort of start to break it down.
So let's start off with the self, the person.
So if I'm in a leadership position, first of all, the reason that I got that leadership position
is likely because I was a pretty good communicator.
You know, I always like to say, you know, leaders are professional communicators. That is their job. Right?
(14:49):
Because, you know, any leadership role out there, if we look at it, we go, you know, there were
probably a 100, maybe a 1000 people lined up for that same job.
Why did that one leader get it over another?
Of course, skill set plays into it, but it's all in how you communicate that skill set.
And and so, you know, first of all, how good of a communicator are you?
(15:10):
And when we look at that so if we look at people who are stepping into leadership, one of the
first things that I see all the time is this, disconnect between who they perceive themselves
as being and how they perceive that others perceive them as being.
Now this is true in those who are not quite yet being able to step into that leadership role
(15:35):
because what's happening is that disconnect between what I believe about myself.
So I'm in a I'm 100% in control of what I believe about me.
And if I believe I'm a good leader, if I believe I'm a good communicator, well, then that's serving me. Right?
So that's a good thing.
I can believe those things.
But if I believe that you think I'm not a communic good communicator or if I believe that you
(16:01):
think that I'm not able to do that job, what happens in my mind, there's a disconnect.
And because in my mind, there's a disconnect, you, in meeting with me, communicating with me,
interacting with me, may not understand what's going on, but you know something is.
(16:22):
And this is where we get that funny feeling of, like, oh, I don't know.
I can't quite put my finger on it.
I I I don't quite trust her, or I don't quite believe her. Why?
Because in my own mind, I'm creating that disconnect.
So in answering that question, the first thing is as a leader, I have to be and and you can
(16:44):
see how fine a point I just made about how I think about myself and how I believe you think about me.
And that's something we don't often do.
So that's that's number 1 in terms of stepping into
Tim (16:58):
Oh, so true.
Andrea Sampson (16:59):
Into a story. Right? Because it's like, if I'm gonna tell you a story, then I've gotta believe
in my story, and I've gotta believe that you believe my story.
So that's the first thing.
The next thing is what story are we telling about ourselves?
Now this is often called a personal brand because branding isn't just something that organizations do.
(17:21):
Branding is something that we do.
And whether we know it or not, we all have a brand.
And so that brand can be built by default with the ways in which we're showing up inconsistently
or it can be built with intention by understanding the elements of how others perceive us Andrea
then being very authentic to ourselves and showing up consistently in those areas.
(17:48):
So what I mean by that is if I am somebody who wants to be in a leadership role and I'm always
talking about the need for values based leadership, which now has become part of my personal
brand, then I better be showing up from a values perspective all the time.
(18:09):
So when I'm communicating, I may be coming back to the values that we're we're entrenched Tim,
or I may be showing in some way that it's our values that give us the filter by which to make decisions.
So now as I'm telling a story and living a story, it's incongruent with each other.
(18:32):
And so understanding the elements that make us a brand are important Andrea those things, yes, they include our appearance.
Now your appearance is your own.
You get to choose what it looks like.
Your appearance could be that you are the, you know, maybe the person who shows up always in a rumpled suit.
(18:54):
Maybe that's what you want to be seen as.
Maybe it's a bit more casual and a bit more, free flowing.
Your clothes are are not the important thing. It's you who are.
That's okay if that's the story you're telling.
But if you're telling a story about, you know, professionalism, that would be outside of your
(19:15):
brand, and it would be out of congruence with your brand.
So your appearance is one thing.
Your words are another thing.
The way in which you, your personality.
So that personality, I'm not saying to make one up.
What I am saying is to understand what it is about your personality that makes you stand out
(19:41):
from others and lean into those things.
So when we see ourselves as a personal brand, it's not about creating somebody we're not.
It's about more leaning more deeply into who we are and creating the elevated version of who we are.
Now this is how we show up in our role as thought leaders or just as leaders and so knowing
(20:03):
it, being consistent with it, and choosing to be intentional with it, those are the keys to
building that personal brand story because that's what it is, And that story will also include
some of our narrative elements.
You know, I talk a lot about storytelling Andrea use my own story as part of that.
And and with that, I'll often tell people about my own background and the things that have given me the biggest lessons. You know?
(20:31):
So I delve deeply into some of the places where I haven't succeeded, where I've had challenges,
where I've had to learn about myself.
And that's part of my brand, and that's part of my brand story. Tim make sense?
Tim (20:46):
No. Absolutely. I love how you Tim that all together about overcoming imposter syndrome and
being in congruence with your messaging and what you believe in making sure that other you have
to believe that other people believe you too.
Andrea Sampson (21:02):
Mhmm.
Tim (21:02):
And all being congruence, you know, and also how you show up in the world Yeah.
Is is very important in in my opinion. Yeah.
Because that's how you're you're perceived.
Whether it's intentional or unintentional, it it is what it is, especially when people are looking
at you for leadership and for guidance.
Andrea Sampson (21:19):
Mhmm. Abs And
Tim (21:20):
and you talked about storytelling in a way where, you know, as leaders, I believe you're supposed to be visionary. Mhmm.
And oftentimes, a lot of employees don't understand their role or their purpose or how they tie into the vision.
I think it's because of a lack of leaders' abilities to tell stories about their vision.
(21:41):
And so with that, you know, what steps would you recommend for integrating storytelling into
a into an everyday practice?
Like, if you've never started telling your story Andrea you just kinda show up and say, this
is it, how would you recommend to start the the practice of storytelling?
Andrea Sampson (22:01):
Well, I I would start off by saying we all tell stories.
Whether we know it or not, we do because we are, as humans, hardwired for story.
It is part of our DNA.
But often what happens is we just don't tell very good stories.
We tell stories that are more fact based or, very linear in terms of the ways in which we we tell them.
(22:22):
So, you know, to go to your your example of a leader as a visionary.
So a vision is nothing more than a story. Let's face it.
That's what a vision is.
So the first place I would start as a leader is look at that vision and go, is it creating,
an aspirational, vision for the the employee base?
Have you written that vision in a way that people understand, that they connect with, and that they believe?
(22:48):
And so first of all, so start with that vision and look at it and rewrite it if necessary.
If not change it, it's tell the story better.
And there are lots of storytelling frameworks out there, and I believe deeply in frameworks.
In fact, we have a few that I'm happy to make available to your listeners.
But in terms of that vision, so that would be the first place that I would start.
(23:12):
Then have a look at your own storytelling.
So number 1 is what's the story you want people to believe? So that's the vision.
The second thing is where are you already telling stories?
That's important because the places where you're already telling stories, you may need to look
at and go, oh, I could be better at that.
I could do that better.
(23:33):
Or the way in which I'm telling the story or the story I'm telling is taking people off track or it's confusing them.
So find the places where you're already telling stories and just kind of be objective. Don't be critical.
Be objective and go, is that the best way I could tell that story?
And if it isn't and you're finding that, that people aren't aligning to the things you're saying
(24:01):
to them, then try telling that story a little differently. Use a framework.
We use something called the story spine, which is a 5 step framework to telling a story.
Now that that is a very simple framework.
That's why I like it.
And I like it because as business leaders, you know, often we're trying to get our our point across very quickly.
(24:24):
Andrea we don't have the time to go into, you know, a hero's journey, which is an amazing storytelling
framework, but it's got 16 different points in it.
And we don't just don't have the time for that.
And for most of us, we don't have the skills quite frankly.
So something like the story spine where it's really it's just the environment, the characters,
(24:45):
the issue conflict or opportunity, which is the reason you're telling the story, the raising
of the stakes, which is that sort of tension point in the story and then the outcome.
Those are the 5 points. It's very easy. You can remember that.
The environment, that's where the story starts. What's going on?
Tell it in first person. You know?
Here I am, you know, talking to Tim on the phone.
(25:10):
We're having a great conversation, but I'm looking distracted by the, you know, the screen in
front of me and my cat who's asking for food downstairs. You know?
So you're in the environment with me.
You know, characters well, I've already told you, it's Tim and me.
We are, you know, in the story together.
Now I might tell you a little bit more about Tim because characters have names and they have backstories.
(25:34):
Then the issue, the conflict, or the opportunity.
You know, stories always have one or more of those, an issue, a conflict, or an opportunity.
So why am I telling you this story?
What is going on that I want you to know?
Now this is where so many storytellers Staton, and and this is where I always say, you know, avoid that seduction. Right? It's easy to go.
(25:54):
The other day, this thing happened.
Well, you've just given everything away.
You've not engaged anyone, so lead to it.
Then the the the raising of the stakes or the tension point, This is what I like to call the Andrea then moment.
So when you've delivered the thing that you're telling the story about, what you wanna do is go Tim% into it.
And you can you don't have to have just one. You can have many.
But this is that moment where something happens, something shifts and changes, and then you have an outcome.
(26:20):
How did it all come together?
What's the ending of that story?
So that's the 5 steps to telling a story.
And so when we are looking at our practice or our business or our brand, ask yourself, does
it have those 5 elements built into it somehow?
Are you creating the engagement with your audience through that sense of place and that sense
(26:42):
of of, tension and wonder throughout it.
And are you conveying who is in that, in those stories in a way that engages that person to
think about their own life?
Because stories are really all stories are meta stories.
We all live the same life.
(27:02):
It's just the details that are different.
So, you know, we've all had an experience where something has gone wrong or when we've failed
or where we've had a funny thing happen.
Everybody has had one of those experiences.
And because we have, when you're telling me your story, my brain is bringing up my memories.
(27:24):
And so suddenly your story becomes mine, and I own it as much as you do.
And that's how we build engagement with stories, and that's how we get people telling better stories.
Tim (27:35):
And I'm I'm just enthralled listening to you lay out that framework.
It's an incredibly story about how you even laid out that framework in a story format, which which I love.
And I appreciate you providing that for all the listeners, and all of your links are gonna be
in the description of this episode.
So go ahead, check down below, and go into the description and pull up all the, you know, the
(27:56):
wonderful nuggets of gold that Andrea has provided for us today in there because it's gonna
it's gonna make you a better storyteller, and it's gonna make you a better leader overall.
So, Andrea, before we leave, I would just like to give you the last word.
Is there anything that you would like to tell the listeners that you haven't said yet?
Andrea Sampson (28:15):
You know, I think the thing that I've said it, but I'll reinforce it.
How a story is one of the most powerful ways for we as we as humans to communicate with each other.
And when we when we see our lives as a story and as context for the work we do and the way in
which we interact in the world, it changes everything we do.
(28:37):
Because now instead of thinking about our lives as these linear unfolding, we see them as opportunities
to create connections with others.
And so use your life as the backdrop for the stories you're telling.
And by doing that, what you're doing is you're inviting others to experience your brand more
(28:58):
completely, to build your leadership in such a way that it connects with others, and ultimately
to create the impact that you wanna make.
Each one of us has an important role to play in the creation of the future that we all want.
And I always say, you know, thought leadership because I talk a lot about thought leadership.
(29:21):
Thought leadership is not something that is reserved for leaders of countries or leaders of
companies or leaders of industries.
Thought leadership is there for all of us to take.
And when we step into being the thought leader of our family or the thought leader of our community
or the thought leader of our classroom, what we are doing is we are adding diversity to the
(29:43):
voices that are contributing to the creation of that future.
So use your voice and add it to what we want for the future that we're all gonna be living in.
Tim (29:54):
No. Absolutely. Hey, Andrea. Thank you so much for coming on the show today and and talking
to everybody and sharing all your your gold that you have for us today. Thank you so much.
Andrea Sampson (30:03):
Thanks so much, Tim. This has been so much fun.
Tim (30:06):
As always, I wanna thank you for stopping by and listening to this episode, and I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if we could.
If you could please share this episode with 1 or 2 people who might like this episode and you
think would like the topic.
If you haven't followed, subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, please do that
and hit all the bells, the whistles, and the icons so you know when we release another episode.
(30:30):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so other people
who might not have found the show yet can be led to it by your thoughtful review or your comments.
Again, thanks for stopping by.
I'm Tim Stain, stating the obvious.
Hey, and welcome back to another episode.
I'm super excited about this episode today.
I know I've been saying that about a lot of episodes lately, and that's because I'm talking
to a lot of great people.
And today, we're gonna be talking to Andrea Sampson.
She is the CEO and founder of Talk Boutique.
She blends her astute listening skills and insights into human behavior to coach leaders and
(00:24):
speakers Andrea crafting impactful stories.
With over 2 decades in marketing and advertising, Andrea's prowess in connecting with audiences
has transitioned into her role as a TED trainer speaker coach, where she excels in making complex
technical subjects relatable and esteemed.
Her work extends to training Singularity University faculty globally and contributing to the
(00:50):
TEDx initiative, underlying her commitment to shaping a future marked by kindness, equity, and sustainability.
Through regular interviews with visionaries, Andrea fosters a dialogue on creating a better world starting now.
And with all of her expertise that she has, we had a great conversation about the art of storytelling
(01:11):
and why storytelling is so important.
Let's dive right now into the conversation that we just had.
This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's your church, whether it's
(01:31):
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to great leadership.
And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Narrator (01:44):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark, trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
does not necessarily constitute and reply.
Indores of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim (01:55):
So, Andrea, hey, welcome to the show.
Andrea Sampson (01:58):
Thanks, Tim. I'm excited to be here.
Tim (02:00):
Hey. Good to have you on.
So we we just heard your impressive background, and and I just wanted to ask you, how did you
go from, you know, marketing and advertising into the thought leadership realm?
Andrea Sampson (02:13):
Yeah. So, you know, my story, I guess, is not all that unique, but unique in its own way in
that, you know, I spent most of my career in advertising, almost 25 years, working for some
of the largest agency networks in the world and some of the world's most recognizable brands.
But, you know, I came to a point in that career where I started to realize that it wasn't fitting who I was anymore.
(02:36):
When I came into that world, I had this deep desire to create an impact to, you know, somehow
influence the advertising that I was doing to make the world a little bit a better place.
And 25 years in, I started to realize, well, maybe that wasn't gonna happen.
You know, at the end of the day, advertising is about selling things.
(02:56):
And I was an idealist in a capitalist world, and I needed to I needed to make a change.
And so I started looking around thinking, you know, the skill set that I have, I it must be transferable to something else.
And I started doing some volunteer work in one of the places that I was very fortunate to be
(03:16):
volun hired, because I had to go through a full interview process, was as a speaker's coach for TEDx Toronto.
And now this was in the very, very early days of the TEDx Movement.
And two things, I was blown away that I could actually work with the brand and and was so excited
by that, but I had never heard of a speakers coach.
(03:38):
And I but, you know, the reality was I presented all day every day.
And so I thought, well, give me a little bit of training, and I can figure this out.
Well, that led to an entire realization.
First of all, I met people who were doing such amazing things in the world.
You know, these were people, scientists, academics, you know, technologists, artists.
(04:03):
They were changing the way that we saw our world, the way we interact with our world, and the humans we were becoming.
And they were showing me a world filled with hope.
And yet every time I opened a browser window and saw the latest news, I wasn't seeing that.
And in advertising, I thought I knew a lot, but this was a whole new world for me.
(04:27):
So I thought, wow, the world needs to know this because the reality is we're we often aren't given messages of hope.
And so seeing these incredible people, I I even though everybody has watched TED Talks, it was
a different way of seeing the world when you're inside the brand.
(04:48):
And I had this skill set I didn't know I had.
You know, as an in advertising, I was what's called a a planner, a Staton, and so my job was
doing a lot of consumer research.
And I used to have to take large swatches of data and distill it down into what we called key consumer insights.
Well, that skill was the very skill that these amazing humans on the TED stage needed to take
(05:12):
their life's work and turn it into a 15 minute talk.
And so I started to understand that there was this skill set that I had that I didn't realize
how powerful or how useful it could be.
Well, that led me to start to discover my own entrepreneurial streak.
(05:32):
And in doing that, understanding that I really wanted to help these people make the impact beyond
the TED stage because, you know, TED is a great platform, but if not by some, you know, fluke
of nature that they go viral, that 15 minutes on stage is gonna be the last time we hear from them.
And so I created my company, Talk Boutique, as a way to help those who have a message to tell
(05:58):
to do so with clarity and impact Andrea specifically to create the changes in the world that we wanna make.
And today, we're focused on taking experts and turning them into thought leaders by helping
them to become storytellers so that they can co create the future that we are all going to be
(06:19):
living in Andrea that future is largely created by those thought leaders.
So it's my mission to make sure that they are diverse,
Tim (06:27):
which is an amazing story on how you came from that industry to where you are today.
And it's incredibly implicable, I would say, to business and to leadership.
And before we dive into the that realm of questioning getting into that, can we just define
what storytelling is Andrea and how do you define that?
So that way people in the business context can relate to it.
Andrea Sampson (06:50):
Of course. So for me, storytelling is a way for us to create context, to use our lived experience,
whatever that may be, in a way to create an understanding of the things that we want others to know.
Now we tell stories all the Tim, and, of course, we grew up with our parents maybe reading us
(07:14):
bedtime stories or watching, you know, incredible, you know, narratives through, Hollywood action movies.
And these are all forms of storytelling.
But for the context of what I do, we use story as the way in which to convey important messages.
And so story, as I said earlier, acts as the context, the backdrop that helps us to understand
(07:43):
the more complex details in an understandable way through our own lived experience.
Tim (07:50):
I love that definition about how it creates the context.
So with with that context, how has storytelling historically influenced the development and identity of brands?
Andrea Sampson (08:01):
Well, I mean, brands, you know, if you if you read I I actually, I'm I'm in the process right now of reading.
I use all, Harari's latest book Nexus, and and Sapiens before that, and Homode Diaz all talk
about story, in the context of organizations and brands in that they that's all they are.
They are a story, a story we tell ourselves.
(08:23):
We create, these brands through imbuing story on them, which creates a narrative about them.
And that narrative in many in in when done well, you know, because not all brands are done well,
but when done well, that narrative creates a hero for us to, in some way connect with.
(08:46):
If we think of brands like Apple as an example, and I I use that one very specifically because
it's a brand that we've seen go through many different iterations of its of itself.
In the early days of Apple, it was the, it was the brand that was, going up against the the big guys. Right?
(09:07):
They were just a little company out there with this idea.
And in those days, it was IBM and then eventually Microsoft that they were going up against.
And they they put themselves as the, you know, the the the the alternate choice for those who
saw themselves in a certain way, the challenger brand.
(09:28):
And so, you know, when I when I think about Apple, it is and back in those days, it defined
itself as creative tools for creative people in in a time when computers were not seen as creative,
but simply a business tool.
Well, Apple has gone on to take that positioning, that idea of creative tools for creative people
(09:50):
Andrea has now turned it into an entire brand that is built about being think differently.
And so, you know, what it says to us, if you see yourself as being different from the status
quo, if you see yourself as being creative, if you see yourself as wanting more in the world,
(10:12):
then Apple is the story, insert brand here, for you.
And so brands are stories, and, you know, they're simply, as we used to say in the branding world, an empty vessel.
It's what you fill it with that makes it impactful.
Tim (10:29):
When you're when you're telling that that story about Apple, it instantly brought to mind a movie.
I can't remember the name of it, but it had Mel Gibson in it and another lady, and they're working
for I think it's Nike or working for I think it's Nike or a shoe company, and they're a brand company.
And and so they're talking about how to come up with a story Yep.
About they're not just marketing the item.
They're marketing a story and a lifestyle change.
(10:54):
And can you elaborate on that a little bit more?
Andrea Sampson (10:57):
Yeah. So, again, it comes back to what is the story we you know, in advertising, you know, we
always get to say people don't buy what they need.
They buy what they want.
And so in in order to create desire, because that's really what you're doing with advertising,
you're building a story that somebody wants to be a part of.
(11:19):
So when you're creating that brand story, what you're doing is building out all the details
that somebody would be thinking about in terms of I would like to be. It's aspirational. Right? All brands.
You don't want a brand to be about the here and now because I can have that right now. It's attainable for me.
(11:40):
But who do I want to become? That's the aspiration.
And so the story that many brands tell are this aspiration. Think of Nike.
Andrea fact, in that I think that was called What A Woman Wants is what I think that movie was.
And the the story of Nike. Right?
If we if we look at, you know, the the tagline of just do it. Right?
(12:02):
And it started off as a as an action oriented tagline.
Taglines are really the space within the consumer's mind that you want to own, and so with Nike,
they wanted to own action, and so just do it was a way, a shortcut to get you to action.
And so in terms of of building out an aspiration around that, well, today, maybe I'm, you know,
(12:29):
a young a young person who doesn't see them sell as being incredibly fit or incredibly athletic.
But what the the Nike brand is saying to me, well, if you buy my product if you bought buy the
Nike product and you wear it, it will give you the motivation to become the thing that you want
to become, the the place you want to be in the future that you're not today.
(12:52):
So when you're wearing those Nike shoes, it's the reminder of go out and run.
And when you're wearing those that Nike clothing line, you're conveying to others like you that
you have the same belief.
So you're creating a, a tribe, a community of people who are all thinking the same way.
And so Nike is owning that story in your brain through that tagline of just do it. It's about action.
(13:17):
It's about aspiration to where I want to be.
So that's the story that they're building around you.
And so this is what brands do.
They look for the aspiration.
What is it you want to become?
What is it that the consumer you know, I talk about the research we used to do.
That was what we were looking for.
And what's the core consumer insight?
What is the unmet need or the unmet desire that that consumer has that this brand could fulfill
(13:42):
that it in some way is contributing towards?
And so we look for those, and then in finding that insight, we build a story around that insight
of how the consumer can go from where they are today to where they wanna be through the brand
itself by interacting or buying or owning that brand.
Tim (14:04):
Which which brings me to the this next question.
We talked about the overarching picture of organizational brands and and branding, but let's
take it down a level to, like, the leader level.
How does storytelling inside an organization help better leadership and help better the organization?
And what are the stories that we should be telling that we're not?
Andrea Sampson (14:27):
Well, it's a you know, it that's a layered question.
And let me sort of start to break it down.
So let's start off with the self, the person.
So if I'm in a leadership position, first of all, the reason that I got that leadership position
is likely because I was a pretty good communicator.
You know, I always like to say, you know, leaders are professional communicators. That is their job. Right?
(14:49):
Because, you know, any leadership role out there, if we look at it, we go, you know, there were
probably a 100, maybe a 1000 people lined up for that same job.
Why did that one leader get it over another?
Of course, skill set plays into it, but it's all in how you communicate that skill set.
And and so, you know, first of all, how good of a communicator are you?
(15:10):
And when we look at that so if we look at people who are stepping into leadership, one of the
first things that I see all the time is this, disconnect between who they perceive themselves
as being and how they perceive that others perceive them as being.
Now this is true in those who are not quite yet being able to step into that leadership role
(15:35):
because what's happening is that disconnect between what I believe about myself.
So I'm in a I'm 100% in control of what I believe about me.
And if I believe I'm a good leader, if I believe I'm a good communicator, well, then that's serving me. Right?
So that's a good thing.
I can believe those things.
But if I believe that you think I'm not a communic good communicator or if I believe that you
(16:01):
think that I'm not able to do that job, what happens in my mind, there's a disconnect.
And because in my mind, there's a disconnect, you, in meeting with me, communicating with me,
interacting with me, may not understand what's going on, but you know something is.
(16:22):
And this is where we get that funny feeling of, like, oh, I don't know.
I can't quite put my finger on it.
I I I don't quite trust her, or I don't quite believe her. Why?
Because in my own mind, I'm creating that disconnect.
So in answering that question, the first thing is as a leader, I have to be and and you can
(16:44):
see how fine a point I just made about how I think about myself and how I believe you think about me.
And that's something we don't often do.
So that's that's number 1 in terms of stepping into
Tim (16:58):
Oh, so true.
Andrea Sampson (16:59):
Into a story. Right? Because it's like, if I'm gonna tell you a story, then I've gotta believe
in my story, and I've gotta believe that you believe my story.
So that's the first thing.
The next thing is what story are we telling about ourselves?
Now this is often called a personal brand because branding isn't just something that organizations do.
(17:21):
Branding is something that we do.
And whether we know it or not, we all have a brand.
And so that brand can be built by default with the ways in which we're showing up inconsistently
or it can be built with intention by understanding the elements of how others perceive us Andrea
then being very authentic to ourselves and showing up consistently in those areas.
(17:48):
So what I mean by that is if I am somebody who wants to be in a leadership role and I'm always
talking about the need for values based leadership, which now has become part of my personal
brand, then I better be showing up from a values perspective all the time.
(18:09):
So when I'm communicating, I may be coming back to the values that we're we're entrenched Tim,
or I may be showing in some way that it's our values that give us the filter by which to make decisions.
So now as I'm telling a story and living a story, it's incongruent with each other.
(18:32):
And so understanding the elements that make us a brand are important Andrea those things, yes, they include our appearance.
Now your appearance is your own.
You get to choose what it looks like.
Your appearance could be that you are the, you know, maybe the person who shows up always in a rumpled suit.
(18:54):
Maybe that's what you want to be seen as.
Maybe it's a bit more casual and a bit more, free flowing.
Your clothes are are not the important thing. It's you who are.
That's okay if that's the story you're telling.
But if you're telling a story about, you know, professionalism, that would be outside of your
(19:15):
brand, and it would be out of congruence with your brand.
So your appearance is one thing.
Your words are another thing.
The way in which you, your personality.
So that personality, I'm not saying to make one up.
What I am saying is to understand what it is about your personality that makes you stand out
(19:41):
from others and lean into those things.
So when we see ourselves as a personal brand, it's not about creating somebody we're not.
It's about more leaning more deeply into who we are and creating the elevated version of who we are.
Now this is how we show up in our role as thought leaders or just as leaders and so knowing
(20:03):
it, being consistent with it, and choosing to be intentional with it, those are the keys to
building that personal brand story because that's what it is, And that story will also include
some of our narrative elements.
You know, I talk a lot about storytelling Andrea use my own story as part of that.
And and with that, I'll often tell people about my own background and the things that have given me the biggest lessons. You know?
(20:31):
So I delve deeply into some of the places where I haven't succeeded, where I've had challenges,
where I've had to learn about myself.
And that's part of my brand, and that's part of my brand story. Tim make sense?
Tim (20:46):
No. Absolutely. I love how you Tim that all together about overcoming imposter syndrome and
being in congruence with your messaging and what you believe in making sure that other you have
to believe that other people believe you too.
Andrea Sampson (21:02):
Mhmm.
Tim (21:02):
And all being congruence, you know, and also how you show up in the world Yeah.
Is is very important in in my opinion. Yeah.
Because that's how you're you're perceived.
Whether it's intentional or unintentional, it it is what it is, especially when people are looking
at you for leadership and for guidance.
Andrea Sampson (21:19):
Mhmm. Abs And
Tim (21:20):
and you talked about storytelling in a way where, you know, as leaders, I believe you're supposed to be visionary. Mhmm.
And oftentimes, a lot of employees don't understand their role or their purpose or how they tie into the vision.
I think it's because of a lack of leaders' abilities to tell stories about their vision.
(21:41):
And so with that, you know, what steps would you recommend for integrating storytelling into
a into an everyday practice?
Like, if you've never started telling your story Andrea you just kinda show up and say, this
is it, how would you recommend to start the the practice of storytelling?
Andrea Sampson (22:01):
Well, I I would start off by saying we all tell stories.
Whether we know it or not, we do because we are, as humans, hardwired for story.
It is part of our DNA.
But often what happens is we just don't tell very good stories.
We tell stories that are more fact based or, very linear in terms of the ways in which we we tell them.
(22:22):
So, you know, to go to your your example of a leader as a visionary.
So a vision is nothing more than a story. Let's face it.
That's what a vision is.
So the first place I would start as a leader is look at that vision and go, is it creating,
an aspirational, vision for the the employee base?
Have you written that vision in a way that people understand, that they connect with, and that they believe?
(22:48):
And so first of all, so start with that vision and look at it and rewrite it if necessary.
If not change it, it's tell the story better.
And there are lots of storytelling frameworks out there, and I believe deeply in frameworks.
In fact, we have a few that I'm happy to make available to your listeners.
But in terms of that vision, so that would be the first place that I would start.
(23:12):
Then have a look at your own storytelling.
So number 1 is what's the story you want people to believe? So that's the vision.
The second thing is where are you already telling stories?
That's important because the places where you're already telling stories, you may need to look
at and go, oh, I could be better at that.
I could do that better.
(23:33):
Or the way in which I'm telling the story or the story I'm telling is taking people off track or it's confusing them.
So find the places where you're already telling stories and just kind of be objective. Don't be critical.
Be objective and go, is that the best way I could tell that story?
And if it isn't and you're finding that, that people aren't aligning to the things you're saying
(24:01):
to them, then try telling that story a little differently. Use a framework.
We use something called the story spine, which is a 5 step framework to telling a story.
Now that that is a very simple framework.
That's why I like it.
And I like it because as business leaders, you know, often we're trying to get our our point across very quickly.
(24:24):
Andrea we don't have the time to go into, you know, a hero's journey, which is an amazing storytelling
framework, but it's got 16 different points in it.
And we don't just don't have the time for that.
And for most of us, we don't have the skills quite frankly.
So something like the story spine where it's really it's just the environment, the characters,
(24:45):
the issue conflict or opportunity, which is the reason you're telling the story, the raising
of the stakes, which is that sort of tension point in the story and then the outcome.
Those are the 5 points. It's very easy. You can remember that.
The environment, that's where the story starts. What's going on?
Tell it in first person. You know?
Here I am, you know, talking to Tim on the phone.
(25:10):
We're having a great conversation, but I'm looking distracted by the, you know, the screen in
front of me and my cat who's asking for food downstairs. You know?
So you're in the environment with me.
You know, characters well, I've already told you, it's Tim and me.
We are, you know, in the story together.
Now I might tell you a little bit more about Tim because characters have names and they have backstories.
(25:34):
Then the issue, the conflict, or the opportunity.
You know, stories always have one or more of those, an issue, a conflict, or an opportunity.
So why am I telling you this story?
What is going on that I want you to know?
Now this is where so many storytellers Staton, and and this is where I always say, you know, avoid that seduction. Right? It's easy to go.
(25:54):
The other day, this thing happened.
Well, you've just given everything away.
You've not engaged anyone, so lead to it.
Then the the the raising of the stakes or the tension point, This is what I like to call the Andrea then moment.
So when you've delivered the thing that you're telling the story about, what you wanna do is go Tim% into it.
And you can you don't have to have just one. You can have many.
But this is that moment where something happens, something shifts and changes, and then you have an outcome.
(26:20):
How did it all come together?
What's the ending of that story?
So that's the 5 steps to telling a story.
And so when we are looking at our practice or our business or our brand, ask yourself, does
it have those 5 elements built into it somehow?
Are you creating the engagement with your audience through that sense of place and that sense
(26:42):
of of, tension and wonder throughout it.
And are you conveying who is in that, in those stories in a way that engages that person to
think about their own life?
Because stories are really all stories are meta stories.
We all live the same life.
(27:02):
It's just the details that are different.
So, you know, we've all had an experience where something has gone wrong or when we've failed
or where we've had a funny thing happen.
Everybody has had one of those experiences.
And because we have, when you're telling me your story, my brain is bringing up my memories.
(27:24):
And so suddenly your story becomes mine, and I own it as much as you do.
And that's how we build engagement with stories, and that's how we get people telling better stories.
Tim (27:35):
And I'm I'm just enthralled listening to you lay out that framework.
It's an incredibly story about how you even laid out that framework in a story format, which which I love.
And I appreciate you providing that for all the listeners, and all of your links are gonna be
in the description of this episode.
So go ahead, check down below, and go into the description and pull up all the, you know, the
(27:56):
wonderful nuggets of gold that Andrea has provided for us today in there because it's gonna
it's gonna make you a better storyteller, and it's gonna make you a better leader overall.
So, Andrea, before we leave, I would just like to give you the last word.
Is there anything that you would like to tell the listeners that you haven't said yet?
Andrea Sampson (28:15):
You know, I think the thing that I've said it, but I'll reinforce it.
How a story is one of the most powerful ways for we as we as humans to communicate with each other.
And when we when we see our lives as a story and as context for the work we do and the way in
which we interact in the world, it changes everything we do.
(28:37):
Because now instead of thinking about our lives as these linear unfolding, we see them as opportunities
to create connections with others.
And so use your life as the backdrop for the stories you're telling.
And by doing that, what you're doing is you're inviting others to experience your brand more
(28:58):
completely, to build your leadership in such a way that it connects with others, and ultimately
to create the impact that you wanna make.
Each one of us has an important role to play in the creation of the future that we all want.
And I always say, you know, thought leadership because I talk a lot about thought leadership.
(29:21):
Thought leadership is not something that is reserved for leaders of countries or leaders of
companies or leaders of industries.
Thought leadership is there for all of us to take.
And when we step into being the thought leader of our family or the thought leader of our community
or the thought leader of our classroom, what we are doing is we are adding diversity to the
(29:43):
voices that are contributing to the creation of that future.
So use your voice and add it to what we want for the future that we're all gonna be living in.
Tim (29:54):
No. Absolutely. Hey, Andrea. Thank you so much for coming on the show today and and talking
to everybody and sharing all your your gold that you have for us today. Thank you so much.
Andrea Sampson (30:03):
Thanks so much, Tim. This has been so much fun.
Tim (30:06):
As always, I wanna thank you for stopping by and listening to this episode, and I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if we could.
If you could please share this episode with 1 or 2 people who might like this episode and you
think would like the topic.
If you haven't followed, subscribed on the platform that you're listening to, please do that
and hit all the bells, the whistles, and the icons so you know when we release another episode.
(30:30):
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so other people
who might not have found the show yet can be led to it by your thoughtful review or your comments.
Again, thanks for stopping by.
I'm Tim Stain, stating the obvious.
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