February 7, 2025 • 33 mins
I’m launching an Indiegogo campaign to keep bringing you high-quality, ad-free leadership content! Early contributors get a signed copy of my book and a shoutout on the show. Join me in shaping the future of leadership discussions! 👉 https://igg.me/at/timstatingtheobvious/x/38154725#/
In This Episode:
I sit down with business strategist Jim Carlough, who shares his essential leadership principles—highlighting the power of interpersonal skills and leadership by walking around. We also dive into topics like mentoring experiences, showing how empathy, humor, and proactive communication can turn challenges (like product discontinuations) into opportunities.
Key Takeaways from Jim Carlough:
Trust & Integrity: Leadership is about acting without personal gain and earning trust through consistent integrity.
The Power of Mentorship: From an average student to a committed learner, he credits mentorship for his growth—and now, he mentors eight future leaders.
Leadership Beyond the Workplace: It’s about daily interactions and being present and approachable.
Jim's Book: “The Six Pillars for Essential Leadership”
Discover leadership strategies from Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Nelson Mandela, Abraham Lincoln, and more! Packed with real-life stories and actionable insights, this book provides the practical tools to develop strong leadership traits for personal and organizational success.
👉 You can reach Jim Carlough here:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jimcarloughms
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/jimcarloughms
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jimcarloughms
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimcarloughms
Book Links:
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQWT93V7
Barnes & Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-six-pillars-of-effective-leadership-jim-carlough/1146705471?ean=9798896632863
👉 You can reach Tim here:
Website: timstatingtheobvious.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw
Instagram: @TimStating
Tiktok: @timstatingtheobvious
Support the Show: https://igg.me/at/timstatingtheobvious/x/38154725#/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:00):
Hey, and welcome back to another episode.
I'm really excited to introduce to you our guest.
But before we get into that, I just wanted to let you know about our new Indiegogo campaign that we're running.
So that way for season six and beyond, we can deliver more insightful and ad free content to
(00:21):
help leaders grow, think critically, and take action.
We've been able to keep this show completely ad free because I believe that leadership education
should be free of distraction, and it should be accessible to everybody.
But in order to take it to the next level, I wanted to deliver more video content and move it into a dedicated studio.
(00:45):
So that way, we can give you a better content, better education, and we can talk to leaders
that you want to hear from.
So my goal is to raise enough so that we can improve our video and our audio quality and then
move into a dedicated studio.
But in order to do that, I need your support.
And as a thank you, the first twenty people who donate $10 or more will receive a signed copy
(01:07):
of my book and a personal shout out on the show, and also even offer up a guest spot on the show.
Leadership isn't just a skill.
It's a game changer for careers, businesses, and communities.
Your support ensures that this podcast stays ad free, expands into video, and reaches even more in aspiring established leaders.
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If this show has ever helped you grow in any way, now's your chance to give back.
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year of leadership content, this time with video and in a studio.
I am truly humbled by all of you who have already contributed, and thank you for being a part of this journey.
(01:51):
Now, I want to introduce to you our guest, Jim Carlo.
With over thirty years of leadership experience, Jim is an accomplished business strategist, speaker, and author.
Having successfully driven explosive growth from healthcare organizations, from startups to
industry leaders, Jim is a trusted expert in building high performing teams, revitalizing underperforming
(02:15):
businesses, and guiding organizations through transformational change.
We're gonna go right now right into the mid of our conversation that we had just the other day.
This is Tim Staton with Tim Staton the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's your church, whether it's
(02:40):
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to great leadership.
And so, in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (02:52):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
does not necessarily constitute and implied endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show or my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim (03:03):
Where did you come up with the idea to found your your theory on the six principles?
Jim Carlough (03:08):
I think that's a great place to start to start.
And and the reason is it was really interesting to me to to over the years, I've mentored a lot of people.
But one of the things that in every single situation I found was they may have been very intelligent
financially, could read financial statements, could do everything, but they didn't know how to deal with people.
(03:34):
And that really was kind of the premise.
And so as I continued to mentor people, I continued to find, you know, at different parts of
my career, different things that came up and how to handle them differently. Yeah. Empathy is an example.
I managed a team of 25, 30 developers and, had a small and when I worked at Pro Systems, and
(04:00):
it was an old piece of technology that we were sunsetting.
And and I had to tell the people, look, we're gonna be sunsetting this product, but I don't wanna lose you.
And I really put myself in their shoes and said, what would I want my boss to how how would
I want my boss to treat me if I was in this situation?
(04:21):
And so what I said to them is, as we lose customers, we're gonna have to make changes to the staffing.
However, I'm gonna make the following commitment to you.
Number one, you'll have as much notice as possible.
Number two, I will help you find a new job, whether internally or externally.
(04:42):
Number three, if you wanna learn the languages that we're programming the new technologies in,
I will allocate the time to have people teach you that.
Over a three year period, I had the lowest,
I'm losing the word off the top of my head this morning, attrition rate in the company.
(05:05):
I had the highest employee satisfaction rate three years in a row, and I didn't have anyone
leave the organization at all.
Now if your boss came to you and said your job's going away, most people would panic.
But 100% of these people bought in to the fact that I had their back, and I understood their situation.
(05:31):
And to this day, many of those people still reach out to me for advice.
And so when I stumbled on these, you know, tidbits of things, I kinda put them all in the back of my head.
And then a year ago, I said, you know, I think it's time I put this together for people and
and offer to help them.
And so it's really from life lessons from early in my life through today that I used to come up with those ideas.
(05:59):
And so, anyway, to answer your question, I think that's a great place to start.
Tim (06:03):
You had, you know, those years of experiences.
You were working with these people, and you took that that approach of how do I wanna be treated
versus, you know, what's best for the organization, and how do I get, you know, the organization
to, like, their their bottom dollar and forget the human element?
And I think that's that's great that you brought the human element back to leadership. So Mhmm.
(06:27):
Speaking of the human element in leadership, can you talk a little bit about the point where
you talk about the power of humor in leadership?
Jim Carlough (06:37):
I I yes. I absolutely can.
So what I have so I'm not a comedian.
I and I'm the first person to admit, you can't try to be a comedian.
But I have found when you're in a difficult situation, conflict situation, sometimes the easiest
thing to do to break the ice is to make fun of yourself, whether it's making fun of myself or
(07:05):
finding something humorous in what you're talking about to get rid of the tension in the room.
Now I also tend to be a practical joker, and so traveling with me is always fun because you
never know what you're going to expect.
You may have ordered a filet mignon, but you're gonna get a hamburger, and you have to deal with that.
(07:26):
I mean, just Staton, corny stuff.
And I found that in introducing humor in the situation, you take some of the emotion out of it.
A lot of people react with emotion, and and we see it every day in social media.
To me, social media is just giving people a platform to be angry and to find things to complain about.
(07:51):
But in reality, if you look at it from another direction, is there something funny in what's
going on that can change the paradigm of the discussion?
And so I have found often that, especially in conflict situations when employees are having
difficulty seeing the forest through the trees, is bringing them back down to earth with a little bit of humor.
(08:14):
And, you know, I had a situation once where two people, a manager and a subordinate, came to
my office because they were they were having almost a yelling match at each other because they
they couldn't see the forest through the trees.
And I sat them down in my office, and I said, what's going on?
And these are two people that have worked together five or eight years. They got along together.
(08:37):
They socialized together, but they were having such a conflict.
I said, I I gotta understand what's going on.
And and I introduced a little bit of humor into the discussion as they were telling me this
conflict that they were having.
And to me, they actually were both right, but they couldn't accept the fact that they were partially
right and how to get through that.
(08:59):
And so I used humor to get through that.
And what what ended up happening and and I'll use the fact that they were both women and and
it not to be gender specific, but they've been both after we resolved the conflict with a little
bit of humor, they both started to cry.
And I said, I don't understand why why are you crying?
(09:22):
And the one woman said to me, because you're always right. And I said, no. I'm not always right. And they said, no.
You always do the right thing.
Sitting us down, having a little humor, getting us to understand that we were missing the point
of it just really emphasize the fact of how you lead and how you manage.
(09:46):
You always make the right decision.
And so I've used humor in a lot of different situations.
But, again, you keep it's not a stand stand up comic thing.
It's when there's an in a when you're at at a conflict or a crossroad and you can't get past
it because of emotion or difficulty of people accepting somebody else's point, introducing a
(10:10):
little humor tends to relax the situation.
I mean, if you think back to when Ronald Reagan was president, he's probably the one who told
the most jokes of any president in my lifetime.
And I always like the fact that, you know, his stories about the the the one I always remember
is the chicken with three legs.
And it it just changes the paradigm when you can get people to relax a little, and he used it very effectively.
(10:37):
And so, you know, that's something that I picked up and I and I tried to use in those situations.
So, anyway but I I do think it's important for people that to have fun and to enjoy their what they're doing.
Because if they're not, they're gonna burn out.
In today's environment, you have to enjoy what you're doing.
(10:57):
And if you can make it fun at the same time, you tend to get more accomplished.
And so I use humor in that way, and it somewhat motivates people, but at at the same time, get
people to look at things from another perspective.
Tim (11:12):
That that's a great point that you made about Ronald Reagan too because I was, actually scrolling
through, some reels, late last evening.
And and Ronald Reagan came up, and he was telling a whole bunch of jokes.
And it it was just so relatable.
And like you said, it brings the the, you know, the the heaviness of a situation.
It makes it a little bit lighter so that way you can decrease your emotions and work through it.
(11:35):
And I like the point that you brought up where you said that they started crying because you
because you do the right thing.
So let's kind of shift us a little bit to let's talk about trust and how to build trust and
how you made that an integral part of your philosophy.
Jim Carlough (11:52):
So I believe trust comes you you you don't get trust automatically.
You have to earn trust, and I earn trust through integrity.
To me, the the one pillar to me that's nonnegotiable is integrity.
And when I was 22 years old, I ran for a city council position in the hometown I grew up in
(12:18):
in New Jersey, and I won.
Now I had running mates that had been running for reelection, and I was a newcomer, but I won.
And the city administrator asked if I could stop in and see him.
Now this is in the early eighties, so there were no cell phones.
So, you know, catching somebody was when you caught them at home and they happen to answer the phone.
(12:40):
And so I went out and I sat down with them.
And so I was running in a general election in the same year I graduated from college.
And he Staton he sat me down. He said, look.
There's a lot of people who are gonna give you a lot of advice.
He said, you're a smart person.
And he said, you did a good job in this election.
(13:03):
He said, I'm gonna give you one piece of advice.
And this advice, I have used my entire life since.
And he said to me, when you go to bed at night, when you put your head on the pillow, and before
you close your eyes, I want you to ask yourself one question.
Did you do anything today at the expense of anyone and for your own personal benefit, whether right or wrong.
(13:34):
And to this day, I still do that.
And I tell my Tim, you will always get the straight answer from me.
I will always be honest with you, and I will always be deliberate in my actions. And that builds trust.
(13:55):
People want a leader who's going to be consistent, going to be there for them, going to have their back.
And and I'm all for making mistakes because we learn from mistakes, and we can't be afraid to try something.
But from my perspective, you have to do it with integrity.
(14:15):
And that was very prevalent when I ended up working at Perot Systems, who's as an organization
I mean, mister Perot, who was an Annapolis graduate, was very, very smart, but he was a great
leader, and he operated with unwavering integrity.
(14:36):
And and I sort of you know, for me, it was kinda, I'm glad I finally found a home where where
the people here all have the same they didn't know at the time, but pillar of integrity.
And that builds enormous trust amongst your Tim.
And my teams know that they're gonna get the straight answer the first Tim.
(15:01):
And if I don't have the answer, I'm not gonna make it up.
I'm gonna go find it and come back to them and give them the answer, right or wrong.
And so to me, building that trust is critical.
The moment you lose the trust of your people, you're over Because they'll no longer be loyal,
(15:23):
they'll no longer follow you into battle, and they'll start to become self serving at the expense of the organization.
And to me, that's nonnegotiable.
And so I I that's the one pillar I'll I'll start every discussion with or every talk with and
talk about why having unwavering integrity is nonnegotiable.
(15:48):
There's too much in this world that lacks that, I believe.
And if you look at the divide in the country, you know, you can look at it from an a a number
of different ways, but, you know, it it you're a former military person.
I mean, you would follow your leader into battle because you knew they had your back and you
(16:10):
knew you could trust them as a leader, and that comes from integrity.
Tim (16:15):
No. Absolutely. Completely agree with you on integrity and developing that and developing trust.
Let's say I'm a new leader, and I'm I'm put into a different positions, and I'm wanting to develop myself.
Is this something that that I'm born with, or is this something that I can develop?
Jim Carlough (16:32):
I'm a firm believer that leaders are made and not born.
Now there are there is some sense of or some semblance of scientific evidence that leaders there's
some sort of gene that the average person may have that will make them a a good leader, but
you still have to learn.
(16:53):
It's a learning process, and I'm a perfect example of that.
I wasn't born with an IQ of 10,000 or a 50 or anything of the sort.
I was an average high school student.
I was an a student when I got to college, and my brain work woke up.
Well, that's at least how I explain it.
And so I believe having a good mentor, having an open mind, and having the ability and desire
(17:21):
to wanna be a good leader and be willing to commit to learning how to become a good leader is
something that has to be invested in, and it's not something that I think is a birthright.
Now you may come from a family where everyone ran for governor. That's great.
(17:42):
They may be great at politics.
They may be great at being a, you know, a leader, but I still believe that they develop that
capability, whether it be through family or friends or schooling or whatever, and they develop those capabilities.
I I just it's hard for me well, growing up in a typical middle class family home, My dad had
(18:10):
been a military person in World War two.
He worked in a factory.
My mom worked in a department store.
We we always had food on the table, many times didn't have seconds, but we had food on the table all the time.
But I didn't I wasn't born with with innate ability to lead.
(18:33):
That had to be developed, and I had to learn that, and it was a learning process my entire career.
And so part of me now is at the point where I wanna give that back, and I wanna help other people
do the same thing by giving them some of the nuggets that they need to learn in order to build high producing teams.
(18:56):
And so that kinda was how this all started to roll out.
Tim (19:00):
You mentioned about mentorship and seeking out mentorship.
And then you you also say that, you know, effective leadership is built on continuous learning
and development through mentorship and structured feedback mechanisms.
Can you just expand upon that a little bit?
Because I fully believe in mentorship and mentorship programs and informal mentorship.
(19:20):
To those out there who are unfamiliar with what that is, can you just expand upon that?
Jim Carlough (19:25):
Oh, Great question. So what I've always done is I've always looked to to my manager as being a mentor.
But going back about twenty five years ago, there were a couple of other people that I worked
with who were higher in the organization than I was, and I sought them out and asked them if
(19:49):
they would be a personal coach to me.
And and I was very nervous about it the very first time I did it.
And I approached, and this guy's name was Mike, and I and and I I had worked in Mike's organization
once or twice as he moved around the company.
And I said, would you mind being a mentor to me, giving me guidance, telling me what to do,
(20:14):
having you know, where do I seek to learn more about the organization or or what we do or or just life in general?
And he he said absolutely.
And so we started meeting monthly for an hour, and we would just review the things that were
going on at work for the last month and what my plans were for the next month.
(20:37):
And it really gave me a different perspective because it also allowed me to work closer with
my manager on the things that Mike was giving me feedback on in terms of things that I could
do to help improve and move upward within the organization.
And it it got me exposure to other executive leaders at the same time.
(20:59):
And so once I got over the apprehension of that, I continued to seek out mentors, and I was
very, very lucky to have worked with some great mentors and managers and leaders in my career.
Now like everybody, there are people that I have worked for that lacked integrity and, lacked
(21:23):
things that I believed in, and in some cases was initially misled about that person in the interview
process, and then regretted making a decision to work in a particular organization.
But those are very, very few in terms of, stops on my career path, but you learn from them.
(21:46):
So but finding a mentor, I I encourage anyone who wants to benefit or, better themselves in
leadership to find a mentor either within the organization that they work with or for or just
somebody they're impressed with on LinkedIn.
A lot of people are willing to be a mentor.
I probably today, right now, I'm mentoring about eight different people.
(22:10):
Not not every one of them is on my calendar once a month or even once a week, but they come
to me for they come to me for advice or when they have a conflict at work or just trying to
work through something, they'll reach out and say, hey.
Do you have a few minutes to talk?
And I oh, my always open my calendar to that.
So if someone's listening and they want me to mentor them, I do have limited time, but they
(22:33):
certainly could reach out to me as well.
And I would certainly be open to, you know, mentoring any anyone.
But to me, I think it's always important.
Again, if you really wanna move up through leadership to make sure that you're continuing to
meet people at those levels to expand your own horizon.
(22:55):
And it becomes it it it really has helped me in my career. That is for certain.
Tim (23:01):
No. I I am a big fan of mentorship and and pushing mentorship and having other people seek out
mentorship because as you said, it opens your horizons, and it gives you exposure to things
that you might not necessarily get exposure to on a day to day basis.
So I think, you know, like you said, mentorship is incredibly important.
And you mentioned, you know, how you're you're currently mentoring about eight people, and I
(23:24):
I know the listeners are gonna be jumping on the fact that they're gonna be able to look at
your socials and the descriptions below and and see where they can connect with you and reach
out with you, especially after listening, to your key and incredible insights that you have.
But I get this sense from you that you also feel that leadership doesn't start when you sit down at your desk. Right?
So can you walk through on how you envision how does it start for you, like, when you wake up
(23:49):
in the morning, or does it start for you when you get to work?
Jim Carlough (23:52):
So that's that's a great question.
If you wanna be a leader, you're a leader twenty four seven.
Now I am not in charge of my household. My wife is.
But that doesn't mean I don't get up in the morning and and behave like I'm a leader. I do.
I get up in the morning. I make the bed.
(24:13):
I well, most mornings will do it jointly.
But, to me, you know, making the bed is the start to the foundation of the day.
And so when when I when I look at the aspect of when does it start, you know, a lot of people
believe that when they sit down at the desk and turn the computer on is when they start. I don't believe that.
(24:38):
I believe it starts as you drive to work.
I believe it starts with the first interaction when you get out of your Carlough a parking lot
to walk into a meeting or to walk into your office, and it starts with every interaction that you have.
I once worked in an organization where the CEO took the freight up elevator up to his office
(25:00):
every day because he didn't wanna interact with people or that's what I believed.
And to me, that's not a leader.
To me, a leader is with the people, all the time. You're always on.
You're always there willing to help, and it's it's you gotta have a passion for it.
If you don't like people, you are not gonna be successful as a leader.
(25:24):
And so to me, it's a twenty four seven commitment to being a leader.
When you go to the store, as simple as greeting people, you know, having brief conversations
with people who you don't know and being comfortable with that because we can learn from everyone we interact with.
And, I'm a and I I totally believe in that.
(25:48):
And so to me, leadership is twenty four seven.
You sign up for it and you're always on.
You know, whether you're in a uniform or not in a uniform, doesn't mean you're off duty, doesn't
mean you're not a leader.
It just means you're you're leading in a different way.
And so I I truly believe that that is a a permanent commitment that one has to make to the to
(26:12):
the to the job at hand and to the role itself.
Tim (26:14):
No. Absolutely. And I I think you really hit the nail on the head when you wrote the book, the
six pillars for essential leadership.
So could you just kind of briefly explain if somebody was to reach out and and get a copy of
the book, what could they expect to see?
Jim Carlough (26:32):
They're gonna see three things, and they're gonna get three things out of the book because three
things are consistent in most of the chapters.
Number one, they're gonna get a pillar that I I truly believe in is necessary to be a leader.
So I'm gonna describe what it means, take compassion as an example or empathy as an example.
(26:52):
Here's what it means to me.
Because compassion and empathy are two different pillars, and understanding the differences
between the two are very, very important.
So they're going to get not only why I believe that that is, most chapters will also have a
personal story to give reflection on it.
And all of the chapters include references to individuals or leaders today other than myself
(27:17):
and people that their they would know their names and and how they have used that in their careers.
Now not to get political or whatever, but if you look at, Elon Musk, his focus his singular
focus is putting people in outer Staton.
And that focus, you know, to him is is where he's leading people and everything he does is still
(27:46):
to hit that vision or and and move the the needle in that in in that way.
If you look at Amazon, you know, Bezos Staton point early in that Amazon's, storyline, and this
is in the book as well, they were having a terrible time in customer service.
(28:07):
They were getting they were getting beat up left and right for poor customer service, poor responsiveness, and everything.
And and he felt the only way to fix that was to live it.
So he took a desk and he put it in the center of the customer service department and sat at
that desk to work with the people to get through it all.
(28:30):
And so in the book, there are references to real life examples, not just US examples.
Nelson Mandela's referenced in the book.
Abraham Lincoln's referenced in the book.
But you can then learn how other people have used that characteristic in their own leadership.
And then in some of the chapters, there's even some personal exercises that people can use.
(28:54):
So to me, this wasn't an opportunity for me to just, you know, provide information about my
life or my career, but it was also to help people develop the trait themselves by looking at
other people who may exhibit that same trait.
And I think that's a significant difference in most books that you see about management.
(29:18):
What I tell people when you read a a sales book as an example, you can't implement that book.
That book made that person who wrote it successful in the industry that they were in at the
time that they were in it, and and all of those ducks had to be in a row.
And so I tell people if you read a business book, take one item out of that book and implement it.
(29:42):
And I wanted to be different.
So what I did is I wanted to come up with six pillars that everybody could take advantage of
that would make them a better leader because I wanted to also demystify that you can implement a book.
And so I like to think that my book is a road map for someone who wants to get the key characteristics
(30:03):
of leadership that will help them excel.
And so that's that's the foundation and the takeaway takeaway from the book itself.
Tim (30:11):
It definitely is a road map, Jim.
So after having read through the book and having, you know, reviewed it before our conversation,
it it definitely lays itself as a road map because I'm a huge proponent of, I think, everybody
needs great leadership and you deserve great leadership.
And you yourself, if you're going to be in leadership roles, you should be the best leader possible for those around you.
(30:34):
So people don't have to suffer with you.
They can work and grow along with you.
So I I I really love your book, Jim, and I really appreciate you being on the show.
We could sit here and we could talk for hours and hours and hours on each and every pillar that
you have, in the book from integrity to empathy to compassion.
And then also how we opened it up about implementing humor into leadership to deescalate situations
(30:58):
and and lighten things up so we can get to the root of the problem.
So, Jim, I really appreciate you being on the show today.
Is I wanna leave all my guests with the last word.
So is there anything that you didn't get to say or a question that I didn't get to ask that
you just like, you know what?
I have to say this before we end.
Jim Carlough (31:14):
I would say that if anyone has a question about anything we've talked about and don't and and
I'm not suggesting you have to buy my book, send me an email.
I'll gladly answer your question.
I am extremely approachable, and I you know, a lot of Tim, people who write a book like to hide
behind the book and, you know, don't wanna mingle. I'm an open book.
(31:37):
And so, you know, my email is jim@jimcarlo.com.
And if anyone listening just wants to connect with me, they can connect with me on LinkedIn
or they can shoot me an email directly, and we can start a conversation.
Whether they agree or even disagree with my principles, I'm open to that discussion.
(31:58):
So, again, I'm an open book, and I would offer that to to your network of people and your guests.
And and, hopefully, you know, Tim, from my perspective, I would look forward to future conversations with you.
This has been a great opportunity to interact and to learn from each other.
Tim (32:13):
Hey, Jim. Well, I really appreciate it.
I'm gonna provide everybody the links to how to get in contact with you in the descriptions
so that way you don't have to go back and rewind, what you said so you know everything's spelled
correctly and put out there so people can reach out to you.
And I really appreciate you being here, so thanks thanks, Jim. I really appreciate it.
Jim Carlough (32:29):
I appreciate it as well.
Thank you for your time today.
Tim (32:32):
As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll be alerted.
(32:55):
Please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Stainton. Date of the Obvious.
Hey, and welcome back to another episode.
I'm really excited to introduce to you our guest.
But before we get into that, I just wanted to let you know about our new Indiegogo campaign that we're running.
So that way for season six and beyond, we can deliver more insightful and ad free content to
(00:21):
help leaders grow, think critically, and take action.
We've been able to keep this show completely ad free because I believe that leadership education
should be free of distraction, and it should be accessible to everybody.
But in order to take it to the next level, I wanted to deliver more video content and move it into a dedicated studio.
(00:45):
So that way, we can give you a better content, better education, and we can talk to leaders
that you want to hear from.
So my goal is to raise enough so that we can improve our video and our audio quality and then
move into a dedicated studio.
But in order to do that, I need your support.
And as a thank you, the first twenty people who donate $10 or more will receive a signed copy
(01:07):
of my book and a personal shout out on the show, and also even offer up a guest spot on the show.
Leadership isn't just a skill.
It's a game changer for careers, businesses, and communities.
Your support ensures that this podcast stays ad free, expands into video, and reaches even more in aspiring established leaders.
(01:29):
If this show has ever helped you grow in any way, now's your chance to give back.
Click the link down below to help make a contribution and so that way we can build another powerful
year of leadership content, this time with video and in a studio.
I am truly humbled by all of you who have already contributed, and thank you for being a part of this journey.
(01:51):
Now, I want to introduce to you our guest, Jim Carlo.
With over thirty years of leadership experience, Jim is an accomplished business strategist, speaker, and author.
Having successfully driven explosive growth from healthcare organizations, from startups to
industry leaders, Jim is a trusted expert in building high performing teams, revitalizing underperforming
(02:15):
businesses, and guiding organizations through transformational change.
We're gonna go right now right into the mid of our conversation that we had just the other day.
This is Tim Staton with Tim Staton the obvious.
What is this podcast about? It's simple.
You are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's your church, whether it's
(02:40):
to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to great leadership.
And so, in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice.
Disclaimer (02:52):
And a quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark trademark manufacturer, otherwise,
does not necessarily constitute and implied endorsement of anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.
The views are expressed here in my show or my own expressed and do not necessarily state or
reflect those of any employer.
Tim (03:03):
Where did you come up with the idea to found your your theory on the six principles?
Jim Carlough (03:08):
I think that's a great place to start to start.
And and the reason is it was really interesting to me to to over the years, I've mentored a lot of people.
But one of the things that in every single situation I found was they may have been very intelligent
financially, could read financial statements, could do everything, but they didn't know how to deal with people.
(03:34):
And that really was kind of the premise.
And so as I continued to mentor people, I continued to find, you know, at different parts of
my career, different things that came up and how to handle them differently. Yeah. Empathy is an example.
I managed a team of 25, 30 developers and, had a small and when I worked at Pro Systems, and
(04:00):
it was an old piece of technology that we were sunsetting.
And and I had to tell the people, look, we're gonna be sunsetting this product, but I don't wanna lose you.
And I really put myself in their shoes and said, what would I want my boss to how how would
I want my boss to treat me if I was in this situation?
(04:21):
And so what I said to them is, as we lose customers, we're gonna have to make changes to the staffing.
However, I'm gonna make the following commitment to you.
Number one, you'll have as much notice as possible.
Number two, I will help you find a new job, whether internally or externally.
(04:42):
Number three, if you wanna learn the languages that we're programming the new technologies in,
I will allocate the time to have people teach you that.
Over a three year period, I had the lowest,
I'm losing the word off the top of my head this morning, attrition rate in the company.
(05:05):
I had the highest employee satisfaction rate three years in a row, and I didn't have anyone
leave the organization at all.
Now if your boss came to you and said your job's going away, most people would panic.
But 100% of these people bought in to the fact that I had their back, and I understood their situation.
(05:31):
And to this day, many of those people still reach out to me for advice.
And so when I stumbled on these, you know, tidbits of things, I kinda put them all in the back of my head.
And then a year ago, I said, you know, I think it's time I put this together for people and
and offer to help them.
And so it's really from life lessons from early in my life through today that I used to come up with those ideas.
(05:59):
And so, anyway, to answer your question, I think that's a great place to start.
Tim (06:03):
You had, you know, those years of experiences.
You were working with these people, and you took that that approach of how do I wanna be treated
versus, you know, what's best for the organization, and how do I get, you know, the organization
to, like, their their bottom dollar and forget the human element?
And I think that's that's great that you brought the human element back to leadership. So Mhmm.
(06:27):
Speaking of the human element in leadership, can you talk a little bit about the point where
you talk about the power of humor in leadership?
Jim Carlough (06:37):
I I yes. I absolutely can.
So what I have so I'm not a comedian.
I and I'm the first person to admit, you can't try to be a comedian.
But I have found when you're in a difficult situation, conflict situation, sometimes the easiest
thing to do to break the ice is to make fun of yourself, whether it's making fun of myself or
(07:05):
finding something humorous in what you're talking about to get rid of the tension in the room.
Now I also tend to be a practical joker, and so traveling with me is always fun because you
never know what you're going to expect.
You may have ordered a filet mignon, but you're gonna get a hamburger, and you have to deal with that.
(07:26):
I mean, just Staton, corny stuff.
And I found that in introducing humor in the situation, you take some of the emotion out of it.
A lot of people react with emotion, and and we see it every day in social media.
To me, social media is just giving people a platform to be angry and to find things to complain about.
(07:51):
But in reality, if you look at it from another direction, is there something funny in what's
going on that can change the paradigm of the discussion?
And so I have found often that, especially in conflict situations when employees are having
difficulty seeing the forest through the trees, is bringing them back down to earth with a little bit of humor.
(08:14):
And, you know, I had a situation once where two people, a manager and a subordinate, came to
my office because they were they were having almost a yelling match at each other because they
they couldn't see the forest through the trees.
And I sat them down in my office, and I said, what's going on?
And these are two people that have worked together five or eight years. They got along together.
(08:37):
They socialized together, but they were having such a conflict.
I said, I I gotta understand what's going on.
And and I introduced a little bit of humor into the discussion as they were telling me this
conflict that they were having.
And to me, they actually were both right, but they couldn't accept the fact that they were partially
right and how to get through that.
(08:59):
And so I used humor to get through that.
And what what ended up happening and and I'll use the fact that they were both women and and
it not to be gender specific, but they've been both after we resolved the conflict with a little
bit of humor, they both started to cry.
And I said, I don't understand why why are you crying?
(09:22):
And the one woman said to me, because you're always right. And I said, no. I'm not always right. And they said, no.
You always do the right thing.
Sitting us down, having a little humor, getting us to understand that we were missing the point
of it just really emphasize the fact of how you lead and how you manage.
(09:46):
You always make the right decision.
And so I've used humor in a lot of different situations.
But, again, you keep it's not a stand stand up comic thing.
It's when there's an in a when you're at at a conflict or a crossroad and you can't get past
it because of emotion or difficulty of people accepting somebody else's point, introducing a
(10:10):
little humor tends to relax the situation.
I mean, if you think back to when Ronald Reagan was president, he's probably the one who told
the most jokes of any president in my lifetime.
And I always like the fact that, you know, his stories about the the the one I always remember
is the chicken with three legs.
And it it just changes the paradigm when you can get people to relax a little, and he used it very effectively.
(10:37):
And so, you know, that's something that I picked up and I and I tried to use in those situations.
So, anyway but I I do think it's important for people that to have fun and to enjoy their what they're doing.
Because if they're not, they're gonna burn out.
In today's environment, you have to enjoy what you're doing.
(10:57):
And if you can make it fun at the same time, you tend to get more accomplished.
And so I use humor in that way, and it somewhat motivates people, but at at the same time, get
people to look at things from another perspective.
Tim (11:12):
That that's a great point that you made about Ronald Reagan too because I was, actually scrolling
through, some reels, late last evening.
And and Ronald Reagan came up, and he was telling a whole bunch of jokes.
And it it was just so relatable.
And like you said, it brings the the, you know, the the heaviness of a situation.
It makes it a little bit lighter so that way you can decrease your emotions and work through it.
(11:35):
And I like the point that you brought up where you said that they started crying because you
because you do the right thing.
So let's kind of shift us a little bit to let's talk about trust and how to build trust and
how you made that an integral part of your philosophy.
Jim Carlough (11:52):
So I believe trust comes you you you don't get trust automatically.
You have to earn trust, and I earn trust through integrity.
To me, the the one pillar to me that's nonnegotiable is integrity.
And when I was 22 years old, I ran for a city council position in the hometown I grew up in
(12:18):
in New Jersey, and I won.
Now I had running mates that had been running for reelection, and I was a newcomer, but I won.
And the city administrator asked if I could stop in and see him.
Now this is in the early eighties, so there were no cell phones.
So, you know, catching somebody was when you caught them at home and they happen to answer the phone.
(12:40):
And so I went out and I sat down with them.
And so I was running in a general election in the same year I graduated from college.
And he Staton he sat me down. He said, look.
There's a lot of people who are gonna give you a lot of advice.
He said, you're a smart person.
And he said, you did a good job in this election.
(13:03):
He said, I'm gonna give you one piece of advice.
And this advice, I have used my entire life since.
And he said to me, when you go to bed at night, when you put your head on the pillow, and before
you close your eyes, I want you to ask yourself one question.
Did you do anything today at the expense of anyone and for your own personal benefit, whether right or wrong.
(13:34):
And to this day, I still do that.
And I tell my Tim, you will always get the straight answer from me.
I will always be honest with you, and I will always be deliberate in my actions. And that builds trust.
(13:55):
People want a leader who's going to be consistent, going to be there for them, going to have their back.
And and I'm all for making mistakes because we learn from mistakes, and we can't be afraid to try something.
But from my perspective, you have to do it with integrity.
(14:15):
And that was very prevalent when I ended up working at Perot Systems, who's as an organization
I mean, mister Perot, who was an Annapolis graduate, was very, very smart, but he was a great
leader, and he operated with unwavering integrity.
(14:36):
And and I sort of you know, for me, it was kinda, I'm glad I finally found a home where where
the people here all have the same they didn't know at the time, but pillar of integrity.
And that builds enormous trust amongst your Tim.
And my teams know that they're gonna get the straight answer the first Tim.
(15:01):
And if I don't have the answer, I'm not gonna make it up.
I'm gonna go find it and come back to them and give them the answer, right or wrong.
And so to me, building that trust is critical.
The moment you lose the trust of your people, you're over Because they'll no longer be loyal,
(15:23):
they'll no longer follow you into battle, and they'll start to become self serving at the expense of the organization.
And to me, that's nonnegotiable.
And so I I that's the one pillar I'll I'll start every discussion with or every talk with and
talk about why having unwavering integrity is nonnegotiable.
(15:48):
There's too much in this world that lacks that, I believe.
And if you look at the divide in the country, you know, you can look at it from an a a number
of different ways, but, you know, it it you're a former military person.
I mean, you would follow your leader into battle because you knew they had your back and you
(16:10):
knew you could trust them as a leader, and that comes from integrity.
Tim (16:15):
No. Absolutely. Completely agree with you on integrity and developing that and developing trust.
Let's say I'm a new leader, and I'm I'm put into a different positions, and I'm wanting to develop myself.
Is this something that that I'm born with, or is this something that I can develop?
Jim Carlough (16:32):
I'm a firm believer that leaders are made and not born.
Now there are there is some sense of or some semblance of scientific evidence that leaders there's
some sort of gene that the average person may have that will make them a a good leader, but
you still have to learn.
(16:53):
It's a learning process, and I'm a perfect example of that.
I wasn't born with an IQ of 10,000 or a 50 or anything of the sort.
I was an average high school student.
I was an a student when I got to college, and my brain work woke up.
Well, that's at least how I explain it.
And so I believe having a good mentor, having an open mind, and having the ability and desire
(17:21):
to wanna be a good leader and be willing to commit to learning how to become a good leader is
something that has to be invested in, and it's not something that I think is a birthright.
Now you may come from a family where everyone ran for governor. That's great.
(17:42):
They may be great at politics.
They may be great at being a, you know, a leader, but I still believe that they develop that
capability, whether it be through family or friends or schooling or whatever, and they develop those capabilities.
I I just it's hard for me well, growing up in a typical middle class family home, My dad had
(18:10):
been a military person in World War two.
He worked in a factory.
My mom worked in a department store.
We we always had food on the table, many times didn't have seconds, but we had food on the table all the time.
But I didn't I wasn't born with with innate ability to lead.
(18:33):
That had to be developed, and I had to learn that, and it was a learning process my entire career.
And so part of me now is at the point where I wanna give that back, and I wanna help other people
do the same thing by giving them some of the nuggets that they need to learn in order to build high producing teams.
(18:56):
And so that kinda was how this all started to roll out.
Tim (19:00):
You mentioned about mentorship and seeking out mentorship.
And then you you also say that, you know, effective leadership is built on continuous learning
and development through mentorship and structured feedback mechanisms.
Can you just expand upon that a little bit?
Because I fully believe in mentorship and mentorship programs and informal mentorship.
(19:20):
To those out there who are unfamiliar with what that is, can you just expand upon that?
Jim Carlough (19:25):
Oh, Great question. So what I've always done is I've always looked to to my manager as being a mentor.
But going back about twenty five years ago, there were a couple of other people that I worked
with who were higher in the organization than I was, and I sought them out and asked them if
(19:49):
they would be a personal coach to me.
And and I was very nervous about it the very first time I did it.
And I approached, and this guy's name was Mike, and I and and I I had worked in Mike's organization
once or twice as he moved around the company.
And I said, would you mind being a mentor to me, giving me guidance, telling me what to do,
(20:14):
having you know, where do I seek to learn more about the organization or or what we do or or just life in general?
And he he said absolutely.
And so we started meeting monthly for an hour, and we would just review the things that were
going on at work for the last month and what my plans were for the next month.
(20:37):
And it really gave me a different perspective because it also allowed me to work closer with
my manager on the things that Mike was giving me feedback on in terms of things that I could
do to help improve and move upward within the organization.
And it it got me exposure to other executive leaders at the same time.
(20:59):
And so once I got over the apprehension of that, I continued to seek out mentors, and I was
very, very lucky to have worked with some great mentors and managers and leaders in my career.
Now like everybody, there are people that I have worked for that lacked integrity and, lacked
(21:23):
things that I believed in, and in some cases was initially misled about that person in the interview
process, and then regretted making a decision to work in a particular organization.
But those are very, very few in terms of, stops on my career path, but you learn from them.
(21:46):
So but finding a mentor, I I encourage anyone who wants to benefit or, better themselves in
leadership to find a mentor either within the organization that they work with or for or just
somebody they're impressed with on LinkedIn.
A lot of people are willing to be a mentor.
I probably today, right now, I'm mentoring about eight different people.
(22:10):
Not not every one of them is on my calendar once a month or even once a week, but they come
to me for they come to me for advice or when they have a conflict at work or just trying to
work through something, they'll reach out and say, hey.
Do you have a few minutes to talk?
And I oh, my always open my calendar to that.
So if someone's listening and they want me to mentor them, I do have limited time, but they
(22:33):
certainly could reach out to me as well.
And I would certainly be open to, you know, mentoring any anyone.
But to me, I think it's always important.
Again, if you really wanna move up through leadership to make sure that you're continuing to
meet people at those levels to expand your own horizon.
(22:55):
And it becomes it it it really has helped me in my career. That is for certain.
Tim (23:01):
No. I I am a big fan of mentorship and and pushing mentorship and having other people seek out
mentorship because as you said, it opens your horizons, and it gives you exposure to things
that you might not necessarily get exposure to on a day to day basis.
So I think, you know, like you said, mentorship is incredibly important.
And you mentioned, you know, how you're you're currently mentoring about eight people, and I
(23:24):
I know the listeners are gonna be jumping on the fact that they're gonna be able to look at
your socials and the descriptions below and and see where they can connect with you and reach
out with you, especially after listening, to your key and incredible insights that you have.
But I get this sense from you that you also feel that leadership doesn't start when you sit down at your desk. Right?
So can you walk through on how you envision how does it start for you, like, when you wake up
(23:49):
in the morning, or does it start for you when you get to work?
Jim Carlough (23:52):
So that's that's a great question.
If you wanna be a leader, you're a leader twenty four seven.
Now I am not in charge of my household. My wife is.
But that doesn't mean I don't get up in the morning and and behave like I'm a leader. I do.
I get up in the morning. I make the bed.
(24:13):
I well, most mornings will do it jointly.
But, to me, you know, making the bed is the start to the foundation of the day.
And so when when I when I look at the aspect of when does it start, you know, a lot of people
believe that when they sit down at the desk and turn the computer on is when they start. I don't believe that.
(24:38):
I believe it starts as you drive to work.
I believe it starts with the first interaction when you get out of your Carlough a parking lot
to walk into a meeting or to walk into your office, and it starts with every interaction that you have.
I once worked in an organization where the CEO took the freight up elevator up to his office
(25:00):
every day because he didn't wanna interact with people or that's what I believed.
And to me, that's not a leader.
To me, a leader is with the people, all the time. You're always on.
You're always there willing to help, and it's it's you gotta have a passion for it.
If you don't like people, you are not gonna be successful as a leader.
(25:24):
And so to me, it's a twenty four seven commitment to being a leader.
When you go to the store, as simple as greeting people, you know, having brief conversations
with people who you don't know and being comfortable with that because we can learn from everyone we interact with.
And, I'm a and I I totally believe in that.
(25:48):
And so to me, leadership is twenty four seven.
You sign up for it and you're always on.
You know, whether you're in a uniform or not in a uniform, doesn't mean you're off duty, doesn't
mean you're not a leader.
It just means you're you're leading in a different way.
And so I I truly believe that that is a a permanent commitment that one has to make to the to
(26:12):
the to the job at hand and to the role itself.
Tim (26:14):
No. Absolutely. And I I think you really hit the nail on the head when you wrote the book, the
six pillars for essential leadership.
So could you just kind of briefly explain if somebody was to reach out and and get a copy of
the book, what could they expect to see?
Jim Carlough (26:32):
They're gonna see three things, and they're gonna get three things out of the book because three
things are consistent in most of the chapters.
Number one, they're gonna get a pillar that I I truly believe in is necessary to be a leader.
So I'm gonna describe what it means, take compassion as an example or empathy as an example.
(26:52):
Here's what it means to me.
Because compassion and empathy are two different pillars, and understanding the differences
between the two are very, very important.
So they're going to get not only why I believe that that is, most chapters will also have a
personal story to give reflection on it.
And all of the chapters include references to individuals or leaders today other than myself
(27:17):
and people that their they would know their names and and how they have used that in their careers.
Now not to get political or whatever, but if you look at, Elon Musk, his focus his singular
focus is putting people in outer Staton.
And that focus, you know, to him is is where he's leading people and everything he does is still
(27:46):
to hit that vision or and and move the the needle in that in in that way.
If you look at Amazon, you know, Bezos Staton point early in that Amazon's, storyline, and this
is in the book as well, they were having a terrible time in customer service.
(28:07):
They were getting they were getting beat up left and right for poor customer service, poor responsiveness, and everything.
And and he felt the only way to fix that was to live it.
So he took a desk and he put it in the center of the customer service department and sat at
that desk to work with the people to get through it all.
(28:30):
And so in the book, there are references to real life examples, not just US examples.
Nelson Mandela's referenced in the book.
Abraham Lincoln's referenced in the book.
But you can then learn how other people have used that characteristic in their own leadership.
And then in some of the chapters, there's even some personal exercises that people can use.
(28:54):
So to me, this wasn't an opportunity for me to just, you know, provide information about my
life or my career, but it was also to help people develop the trait themselves by looking at
other people who may exhibit that same trait.
And I think that's a significant difference in most books that you see about management.
(29:18):
What I tell people when you read a a sales book as an example, you can't implement that book.
That book made that person who wrote it successful in the industry that they were in at the
time that they were in it, and and all of those ducks had to be in a row.
And so I tell people if you read a business book, take one item out of that book and implement it.
(29:42):
And I wanted to be different.
So what I did is I wanted to come up with six pillars that everybody could take advantage of
that would make them a better leader because I wanted to also demystify that you can implement a book.
And so I like to think that my book is a road map for someone who wants to get the key characteristics
(30:03):
of leadership that will help them excel.
And so that's that's the foundation and the takeaway takeaway from the book itself.
Tim (30:11):
It definitely is a road map, Jim.
So after having read through the book and having, you know, reviewed it before our conversation,
it it definitely lays itself as a road map because I'm a huge proponent of, I think, everybody
needs great leadership and you deserve great leadership.
And you yourself, if you're going to be in leadership roles, you should be the best leader possible for those around you.
(30:34):
So people don't have to suffer with you.
They can work and grow along with you.
So I I I really love your book, Jim, and I really appreciate you being on the show.
We could sit here and we could talk for hours and hours and hours on each and every pillar that
you have, in the book from integrity to empathy to compassion.
And then also how we opened it up about implementing humor into leadership to deescalate situations
(30:58):
and and lighten things up so we can get to the root of the problem.
So, Jim, I really appreciate you being on the show today.
Is I wanna leave all my guests with the last word.
So is there anything that you didn't get to say or a question that I didn't get to ask that
you just like, you know what?
I have to say this before we end.
Jim Carlough (31:14):
I would say that if anyone has a question about anything we've talked about and don't and and
I'm not suggesting you have to buy my book, send me an email.
I'll gladly answer your question.
I am extremely approachable, and I you know, a lot of Tim, people who write a book like to hide
behind the book and, you know, don't wanna mingle. I'm an open book.
(31:37):
And so, you know, my email is jim@jimcarlo.com.
And if anyone listening just wants to connect with me, they can connect with me on LinkedIn
or they can shoot me an email directly, and we can start a conversation.
Whether they agree or even disagree with my principles, I'm open to that discussion.
(31:58):
So, again, I'm an open book, and I would offer that to to your network of people and your guests.
And and, hopefully, you know, Tim, from my perspective, I would look forward to future conversations with you.
This has been a great opportunity to interact and to learn from each other.
Tim (32:13):
Hey, Jim. Well, I really appreciate it.
I'm gonna provide everybody the links to how to get in contact with you in the descriptions
so that way you don't have to go back and rewind, what you said so you know everything's spelled
correctly and put out there so people can reach out to you.
And I really appreciate you being here, so thanks thanks, Jim. I really appreciate it.
Jim Carlough (32:29):
I appreciate it as well.
Thank you for your time today.
Tim (32:32):
As always, thank you for stopping by and checking out this episode and listening to it.
I really hope that you enjoyed it.
Before we go, I'd like to ask a favor of you if I could.
If you could please share this episode with one or two people who you think might like this topic.
If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to and hit all the
bells and icons and all the whistles so that you know that when we post another episode, you'll be alerted.
(32:55):
Please go ahead and do all that before you go.
If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we can help
spread the show to other people who might be interested in the topics that we've talked about
here today, but may not have found our show yet.
Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Stainton. Date of the Obvious.
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