Neon Gender: Evangelion from a Trans Perspective

This week on Transcending Comic's, we're joined by Tiktok's "Just Nausicaa" for a discussion about trans representation in on of our favoire anime, Neon Genesis Evangelion!

We'll be discussing how we came across this series, what it's meant to us over the years, and examining its characters and themes through a trans and queer lens. We discuss Shinji's journey and its resonance with the trans experience, the unique character dynamics, and the impact of the series on our lives. We also delve into the Rebuild films and their portrayal of trans themes, as well as the evolution of our own perspectives as we revisit this iconic anime post-transition.

This episode is a deep dive into how media can reflect and shape our understanding of identity, trauma, and self-discovery.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:16):
Welcome to Transcending Comics, a podcast dedicated to trans representation
in comic books, manga, and webtoons, both on panel and behind the scenes.
I'm your host, Tommy, and today we're going to be taking things in a slightly
different direction and talking about trans representation in anime.
Joining me today is one of my absolute favorite creators on TikTok,
whose insightful take on one of my favorite animes sparked the inspiration for today's discussion.

(00:40):
About a year ago, a friend sent me her video on viewing Neon Genesis Evangelion
through a trans lens, and ever since, I've wanted to discuss this topic at length on a podcast.
Today, I'm lucky enough to have this discussion with none other than that creator herself.
But no further ado, I'd like to welcome today's guest, a storyteller,
songwriter, shark-fleece enthusiast, and TikTok sensation, Nausicaa.

(01:02):
Welcome to the show, Nausicaa.
Hi, thank you for having me.
It's fun to hear that the videos, normally I'm caught up just blocking despicable
comments, And so it's nice to hear the real-world effects of the little things I share.
Oh, yeah. I mean, that shark fleece ad is... That's peak trans cinema right there. Yeah.

(01:23):
Well, I'm very excited to start, and I'm so grateful to be here.
And I'm obsessed with Neon Genesis Evangelion in that weird way where I have
very particular ways of watching it and all sorts of stuff.
And so I'm very excited to talk about this with you. And also,
I've been listening to your podcast. It's very nice. Oh, thank you.
Ah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts off air in case you hate it.

(01:46):
But yeah, I've just recently finished my first rewatch of all of Evangelion
post transition and post ego death, which does make it hit a lot different now.
But yeah, like I definitely am seeing why my trans friends seem to have a different
view on the series or like hold it so much closer than I previously did as just

(02:07):
like a basic early anime fan.
But I guess give us like a little intro here. Can you tell us like a little
bit about yourself, Nazca?
The kind of work you make? Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, I think a storyteller is
probably it's it's one of those things that I always I always cringe so hard
when I hear some guy talking about how he's like, I'm a storyteller.

(02:27):
And I'm like, okay. And then recently, I found that that is actually,
sadly, the title that is most befitting me.
And yeah, with my TikToks, a
lot of times I like to pretty much share a point from the perspective of intersectional
feminism that I have a big background in and tie it to a personal experience

(02:49):
and tell that through a story that sort of shows how just different things kind
of function and operate through that lens.
And I like sharing those insights.
I think I'm insightful to a fault. I'm pretty constantly thinking about things
beyond what they need to be thought about.
And so it's nice being able to share that with folks.
I'm working on an album. I've got it fully written, but recording albums costs a lot of money.

(03:15):
And I'm also a control freak, so working on that, but I'll probably have that out.
And right now we're in a writing group together and I've started switching over
to writing a book that covers the aspect of a person who doesn't know their
friends and is accidentally fully transitioned by a sort of like plant serum thing.

(03:36):
And they're sort of grappling with that. And at the same time,
there's a civil war going on and there's sword fighting.
And is this the one I've seen the first scene from?
Yeah, yeah. Okay, this one's going to be good. I think people will like it.
Whenever it should see the light of day.
Also, I loved how you subtly just took a sip from your Evangelion mug in the middle of all that.

(03:56):
This is my one. This is Shinji, and he's holding a mug that has Shinji on it.
And that is that mug that it's like a constant kind of Russian doll situation
of Shinji holding a mug with Shinji on it.
And then I also have this mug, which is Barfield-styled Evangelion Neon Genesis.
Yeah, I think it's super weird. Yeah, I decided to dress a little bit more professional

(04:20):
and not wear my Rei Ayanami sweater.
I was thinking of being fully decked out with all of this stuff,
with this fantastic series. Now, should we give a sort of like,
synopsis of it because it is kind of interesting how
the storyline the story's been told and
then retold and then told again there is

(04:40):
a manga for it and all of the retellings have
come out at different times for the creator's life and then of course the netflix
retelling netflix bought all of the like all of the files essentially for the
series fully redubbed it and had a a completely different director make different
directorial choices because they had access to sort of do that.

(05:03):
Like it wasn't just a copy paste of the same imagery. And that led to some differences
that I particularly despise.
Yeah, well, we can definitely get into those differences in a bit.
But I guess we should maybe start with just a brief description of Evangelion.
So when you find, like, say, another anime fan, or at least someone that's nerdy

(05:25):
enough to possibly enjoy Evangelion, And how would you pitch it to a potential fan?
Oh, I call it, it's a mecha anime drama.
It's very cerebral.
And I also am like, it is a classic. It's a masterpiece. It explores all sorts
of stuff with Christian mythology.

(05:45):
And it's centered around these very real people, which is what ties in all of
these massive concepts.
And it also, the directorial choices made by the creator were very groundbreaking
as far as animation was concerned.
I mean, like the ways that the missiles are shot and the explosions go off and

(06:07):
all sorts of different things.
Those are all, that was like where the creator as an animator had started using
that in places where he was hired and then it really came to this like full
focus and into the mainstream through John Assisi Evangelion, which is really cool.
And then I would probably also say that the creator supposedly was kind of losing

(06:28):
his mind when it was coming out and they were having budget issues.
And so it's almost like it has that sort of like, you can't ever remake it type
quality because it captured a visceral moment of a person's real life that sometimes is frustrating.
The way I like to describe it, I'd say for this audience, since it's traditionally

(06:50):
a comic podcast is like what Watchmen is to superhero comics is kind of what
Evangelion is to giant robot anime.
Just like to my knowledge this was one of the first to really.
Elevate the medium take its audience a lot more
seriously kind of gear it toward an older audience and just
get way more experimental with the medium that's

(07:12):
a perfect description yeah that is that is a
great description like i would say uh i think it
was maybe a mistake on my part like i first watched the series when
i was like 19 and i'd only seen
a few anime other than like what was on toonami growing up
like uh it seemed like maybe the first season of attack
on titan and one punch punchman and then i stumbled back

(07:32):
into the show and i don't think at the time i could really
appreciate everything it was doing or
like how it was so different than everything else out there so kind
of like i wouldn't say someone should start with watchmen if
they're getting into comics like i think this is when you kind of need
to like get a little exposed to anime or even
like tokusatsu if you're a fan of my other podcast and

(07:53):
then you can start to see a lot more of what they're are
experimenting with here and like what the tropes are that they're
bending so much and i think that what i normally
have done when i introduce it to people is and this is a really
great thing with evangelion is that it
has the remakes the movies that are if you're getting into anime and you're

(08:13):
not used to like you don't want to go back to something from the 90s with lower
quality animation just a little bit a little bit jankier i'll present well these
first two movies are pretty much a recap of the series,
but it's retold and there's some differences and everything.
And they're fantastic and really exciting and have a very clear romance.

(08:37):
And then, hey, did you like that?
Okay, well, why don't we go back and watch 26 episodes of the story,
how it was originally, and then...
So that is a nice benefit to it that the movies, the first two movies sum up the series.
Now, you said you have a very particular watch order.
Like, is that how you personally go about it? Or do you have a different means

(08:59):
of tackling it when you want to rewatch the show?
I mean, I mean, well, so now this is a watch order that I recently have really
enjoyed, which is where I go to the series and I start right when Asuka shows up.
And we'll try to with that because
she gets introduced and you see a lot of her perspective but it's

(09:19):
she's introduced later on after you already have like Shinji and Rei and the
other characters more centered as the like as the as the protagonist so when
Asuka shows up she has this like conflict but if you start watching the series
when Asuka shows up it's much easier to
directly relate to her as the lead protagonist and to better understand what

(09:43):
she's going through and see just really all of the depth of her character.
So that's been my weird thing. But yeah, I like to do the first two movies and
then we go back and we watch the 24 episodes and then we watch.
Maybe we watch the 25th episode and the 26th, but then we go and we watch End
of Evangelion and Death and Rebirth, or Death and Rebirth and then End of Evangelion.

(10:06):
I just had more or less that experience recently or we had the chance to catch
End of Evangelion in IMAX just a few weeks ago and so we like binged through
the series re-watching it since we hadn't seen it in like a decade,
and yeah then afterwards like I had a newfound appreciation of this movie like

(10:27):
it struck a real chord with me and like didn't leave my mind like the first
time I saw it I'm like well that
was a bunch of weird shit I didn't understand seeing it this time like.
That is almost exactly what Ego Death was like.
Like, I was crying in the theater because I'm like, this is exactly what I've
been trying to tell people.
They nailed this. That's more or less what it feels like.

(10:48):
And so we then watched it again the next week and snuck the two episodes in between.
The final two that can maybe take place in that Ego Death sequence.
And I think personally, I like the movie just on its own or without the interruption.
But yeah, there's a lot of good in those last two episodes that shouldn't be missed.
Well, there's also just a lot of nonsense in those last two episodes.

(11:12):
There is that, it's that buildup. And I was supposed to research this before we had this talk,
but I always have known it as Gainax or Gainax Ending because that was the production
company behind Neon Genesis Evangelion.
And like Inception has a Gainax Ending because it's an ending that doesn't make

(11:32):
any sense And the audience is left being like, well, what the heck?
What the heck just happened?
In a very particular way, that phrase was coined because of the way that the
series Neon Genesis Evangelion ends.
Because as rumors go, it was that the production company, they stopped giving
the amount of budget needed for them to actually continue animating the end of it.

(11:56):
And the creator was kind of going a little bit mad.
And so the last couple episodes are just B-roll some actual real life footage
of Japan and like insane monologues, fantastic monologues, but genuinely insane.
I don't want to like go beat for beat through the series, but I think I do want
to at least give people some idea of like what we're talking about with this

(12:20):
if they are coming into it blind.
So like we mentioned these first few episodes have been
compiled into a movie and what one thing i love about
this series is it starts as a very typical like monster of
the week kind of robot anime that sort of lulls
you into a false sense of security thinking that this
is going to be like maybe a slightly more mature version of something

(12:40):
like i don't know gundam then over the
next like 10 episodes or so it really starts to
take off and like break tropes a
little bit more do a big character study of these characters
go some really dark places and also do
a few episodes that like the characters don't even get in
the robot or like do any kind of weird robot action and

(13:02):
like it just gets very cerebral in how
it goes about telling these stories and then yeah as
naska was saying the last two episodes come around
and they're like not even really animated like
they're just very weird and experimental and just
a kind of sudden shock after the previous episode ends
on a pretty big cliffhanger and then a year

(13:25):
or so later end of evangelion comes around a.
Big finale film that kind of like retells those
last two episodes more or less gives the ending of
the series like it makes a little more sense maybe or
at least is properly animated looks looks really cool
but still has a very bleak kind of
fu to the fans ending by many accounts but is

(13:46):
still just like a very beautiful avant-garde experimental
movie that like there's a lot to unpack and it
can be kind of hard to digest and appreciate on a first viewing definitely and
something with it that i'm not sure if you have explored this or discussed this
when it comes to like things within japanese culture when you're talking about

(14:07):
manga and stuff The show has definitely some Freudian.
Some very Oedipal concepts that are,
I think, very more commonly kind of culturally explored and acknowledged in
Japan in a different way than they are looked at contextually in America.
And so that always sort of sticks out in the same way where the movie Old Boys is wild.

(14:32):
And the whole thing that happens makes more sense in the culture than it does in American culture.
But exploring family dynamics and family trauma.
And also, of course, there's an interesting trans aspect of this sort of exploration
of motherhood and womanhood.
And I think I would like to talk a bit about both of our journeys with that

(14:57):
aspect of the series and like the evolving relationship to it.
So I'd love to ask about like how you first came across this series and like
kind of take that through like where you started to make the trans connection with it.
So I first came across the series. So it was.
I'm the youngest. I have three older brothers. And my oldest brother was,

(15:18):
I imagine he saw a couple episodes of it on Adult Swim or on Toonami when it
was coming out in America in like 2000 something.
And so I was a little kid. I was like, one of my earliest memories,
I was probably five, was walking in to my brother watching Genesis Evangelion.

(15:39):
And it's like the very first episode. And he was like, yeah,
you can stay here. I won't kick you out just yet.
And then he didn't kick me out because there's naked women. And he was like, this is too much.
But it also had this scene where Shinji's staring at the big robot he's supposed to get into.
And it opens its eyes, its biomechanical eye, and stares at him.

(16:06):
And my brother, without having me ever watch the series, info dumps to me about
how it's It's like, oh yeah, he's piloting this big robot that's alive and he's
just inside it and controlling it.
And the thing is that he feels everything that it feels.
And it isn't him, but he has to sync up with it enough in order to pilot it and save the world.

(16:28):
And that really stuck with me as a kid because I was like, oh,
I would stare at my own reflection all the time and be thinking about like,
I think I'm a floating head. that sort of dissociative thing.
I didn't know it was dissociation at the time. But I felt very at peace with
this idea that, oh, well, just like Shinji piloting that robot,

(16:50):
I'm just some pilot for this big, fleshy vessel of mine.
And so when I stare at my own reflection and see my own eyes and feel this disconnect,
well, that makes sense because it's just like.
The body is just the big robot, right? So I started there. And then I watched the series when I was 14.
And I was unaware of how the stuff I was going through was very much related to my transness.

(17:18):
And it really clicked. It was a phenomenal series.
I watched the whole thing alone in my basement. And I remember coming up at
the end of it being like, that's how it ends? Like, what the heck?
And then my brother showing me the movie and me being a bit more satisfied.
In something that was, so Shinji has a really complex and crappy relationship

(17:38):
with his dad. I have a nice relationship with my father.
And what confused me at the time was I was like, why is Shinji's plight and
issues and everything, why is his life still connecting to me in the way that it is?
Why do I feel so fond of it and feel so moved by it when I don't have those troubles?

(18:02):
I don't have this issue with my father and needing this praise and all this
stuff. So I didn't really understand why I was so drawn to it.
And then I watched the series a couple more times showing friends it and everything
and just really loving it.
And I can talk all about just how it is in general. But then I wound up finally
getting my fiancé, before we were engaged, to sit down and start watching it

(18:26):
with me a couple years ago or something.
And it dawned on me, because I was seeing Shinji being invited into Misato's home to stay there,
and him doing this sort of feeling really at peace in these domestic.
Traditionally feminine roles.

(18:48):
And then having no idea why he has to, like, why does, why do I have to pilot this thing?
And, and I, it just kind of clicked in this moment where I was like,
oh, that's how it felt as a teenager.
And the reason I connected back then was because I was like,
why do I have to go through puberty and pilot this big thing, this big body of mine?

(19:11):
And I don't like that. And yeah,
if I don't do it in my own life, it kind of feels like there's no other option.
It feels like the world may as well end.
It feels like if I don't keep piloting this thing and keep going through puberty
and keep learning to be a man, well, maybe my dad isn't going to talk to me,

(19:33):
which is something that Shinji's dealing with, with piloting the Eva.
He's dealing with maybe the world's going to end. And he's dealing with him
piloting the Eva is the only reason he's He's got this close figure,
adult figure of Misato in his life.
And the friends around him are all linked by the fact that they say,
you have to do this, you have no choice, and you have to pilot the Ava.

(19:56):
And he's struggling to understand how to enjoy piloting it.
And he first doesn't even want to pilot it and then is feeling forced.
And I was like, oh, yeah, because if you don't go through puberty and learn
to be a man, maybe your family isn't going to be there anymore.
Maybe, yeah, maybe the world's going to end and I'm being told I have to like it.

(20:18):
And then there's people who are even jealous of me for how it's going for my own puberty.
And there's people on the show where they're jealous.
There's a character who's so jealous of Shinji for being the pilot and Shinji
does not understand it at all.
And I just was like, yeah, buddy.
Like, yeah, that's how it feels. and then it links with that disconnect of once

(20:41):
he's piloting it, it's like this isn't even my own.
There's the being forced to do it. And then there's the, this isn't even my
body, but I feel everything it feels.
And I have to do everything that a body like this is expected to do.
And that was something that I felt all my life through every single thing that

(21:02):
I did as, like before transitioning, when I was...
Trying to be a guy and everything, it was like I was piloting this thing that
even though I felt everything, it just wasn't me.
And I didn't even know how separate I was from myself until into transitioning
where that dissociation finally faded away on this fateful day.

(21:27):
And I was like, oh, when I look in the mirror and when I see myself on camera,
I'm not double -checking my reflection to make sure that the body is acting
the way I want it in a way where it's like, it isn't me. I'm not looking at
this sort of empty vessel.
It's just that every part of me is me, and I'm no longer feeling like I'm piloting something.

(21:49):
So it was almost like I didn't see the trans connection until I was finally
able to stop piloting my own robot and transition and connect with my body.
And then I saw all of the dissociation and all of that societal pressure that
Shinji went under to become this thing.
I think not being exposed to the series in full early on, like it took a lot

(22:12):
longer for me to start getting there myself.
Like for a long time, this was just something nebulously out there for me.
Like I was maybe seven or eight years old.
I rented a Godzilla VHS tape from Hollywood Video. I think it was Destroy All Monsters.
And there's this trailer on it,
for some big robot anime that like ode to

(22:33):
joy is playing through it and it's like the most cool
and intense thing i have ever seen in my young life and.
I have no idea what this anime is i know there are
like four anime on tv and half of.
Them are dragon ball related and none of them are this
where can i find this and it was
just a mystery forever and then

(22:54):
i'm like 19 and some youtube channel i
think was culture shock talks about this new evangelion
movie that's just come out and it's one of
the rebuild films i'm like wait a minute that imagery looks
kind of familiar here and i
look it up i even look up like evangelion vhs trailer
and it like it unlocked a core memory sure

(23:15):
enough like there it is the one minute vhs trailer and
like blows me away again i'm like i need to pirate this
right now and watch through this thing and
yeah it was great to like finally get to be exposed
to this but i don't think i was fully ready for it
as mentioned earlier and i i didn't think
about it all that much other than like wow that ending was.

(23:35):
Weird and just had the show ending
movie and the first two rebuild films to go off of but then
fast forward years later i'm with a
girlfriend for a little while she's the one who was there and
kind of sparked my ego death on my
first music festival acid trip we had
started watching the rebuild films together then broke

(23:58):
up after the first two but like i started to have the egg more fully cracked
as mentioned in the coming out podcast i did and i reconnected with her and
one or two other people like i was just in this state of like hey i'm having
some self-realizations and i could really I'll use some like guidance here.
And so I invited her over to like reconnect a bit. We even watched the third

(24:22):
rebuild film for the first time there.
And that was really where it hit me of like, Oh my God, getting in the robot is like.
Being trans like everyone has all these expectations they're
putting on shinji and it's like especially complicated in
this particular film because like all the women in his life
are telling him not to do something but then like every

(24:43):
male role model in his life is telling him to do something
and this like inner conflict there there's
i mean they put him in a dog collars there's like a
little bit of the imagery there and yeah
like the world literally does end if
he gets in the robot or maybe it ends if he doesn't get
in the robot and just like has this huge conflict and has

(25:04):
no real idea of what to do because like everyone's either
ignoring him or treating him like trash and telling him
everything is his fault and yeah it
just hit me like a sack of bricks there then i
think it was a few months later that i eventually saw
your video and i'm like okay this person
they get it like and meanwhile i had

(25:25):
been thinking like i knew i wanted to do some kind of
big coming out special on my giant size violence podcast i
know i wanted to share my experience with ego death and like part of me was
thinking of doing a whole trilogy on it like one about my experience another
that's like a trans take on evangelion or the rebuild films and like rebuilding
oneself and then something on rogue son using a play on words there but.

(25:49):
Ultimately, just stuck with the one episode. Turned out that was all that was needed.
And I think I did right by biding my time before diving into the subject now
that I can better appreciate the entire series, having rewatched it post-transition.
Yeah. Yeah. And something that I've been thinking about just with us talking
is I think that part of why I kept going back to the series is there's this thing.

(26:12):
So with my own transitioning and everything, I deal with a lot of dissociation.
And I've got a pretty severe dissociative stuff going on.
And so it's sort of like that was the way that my brain dealt with gender dysphoria
as a child, because we didn't know there wasn't an answer to why I was feeling this way.
There wasn't an option aside from learn to suffer through it.

(26:37):
And so it's kind of through that I all my life developed more and more of a
dissociative situation where I was always performing what was required.
Fired and i'd be drawn to things
though that it was as though and this is a thing when you're
working through dissociative stuff is that it's like
your brain this whole time has been leaving little breadcrumbs for you to find

(26:58):
once it's safe once it makes sense and once you're in the place to fully understand
it and i kept going back to neon genesis evangelion because when i first saw
But one of the things that I felt was,
well, Shinji's being forced to pilot it, but Shinji's such a little bitch.
I'm doing so much better at piloting my robot of suffering that I'm forced into than him.

(27:25):
I'm doing so much better. This is what it would be like if I didn't choose to
embody the characteristics required and expected of me.
Because when I was living as a dude, I was very much like a dude.
I was not like a piece of crap.
I was like a feminist and stuff, but it was very much like one of the bros and like.

(27:46):
A man and stuff was like yeah and like former frat
boy over here i was very i was very
good at at piloting my robot and
so it's almost like oh i liked this series because the whole piloting the
robot thing but you know oh i i i'd be
better than shinji and then i get older and i'm at like and i'm re-watching

(28:09):
the series again and at this point i was working as like the lead staff member
at a group home for young adolescents who were in and out of the system and stuff.
And I was rewatching it, and I felt so powerfully connected with Misato,
who, of course, was about my age, a little bit older.

(28:29):
And she's this young adult who has her whole life going on and is also somehow
in this role of trying to figure out how to be an adult role model and almost a parent to these
troubled teenagers that she's surrounded by.
And I was like, I really, really relate to this. I really relate to this character, Misato.

(28:52):
And I still didn't make the connection of my own.
But by this point, it was like, I was half there. I was half there.
I was in a bad situation with just who I was surrounded by, where it was still
not safe for me to transition or anything.
But I found myself idolizing and connecting with more and more just,

(29:14):
like, women and, like, portrayals of women in media.
And Misato was, like, one of those primary kind of egg crackers where I was like, I want...
To be her. And it was like, she has a love interest, Kaji, which that was another
moment where I did not feel myself relating to the character who wanted to be with Misato.

(29:39):
I didn't see myself as the feelings I felt around Misato's character were not
a sense of romantic interest or sexual interest.
It was purely this longing of wanting to be something closer to that.
And so then when I wind up rewatching it after transitioning and after kind

(30:00):
of breaking down dissociative walls and becoming my own version of Misato is
when I was watching it and looking back at, oh, yeah,
like, and seeing all the connections of what Shinji was going through.
And so I kind of laugh at myself.
I felt so much like, it's literally like I was like, oh, I'm doing such a better
job than trans Shinji at pretending to be a guy.

(30:23):
If the story is that Shinji is being forced to be a guy, he's doing a bad job, and I did a great job.
So ha! Looking back, I'm like, maybe that actually wasn't the greatest perspective.
Maybe I should have actually picked up on the fact that he loves being surrounded
by women and just doing things that are more in line with our traditional concepts

(30:47):
of femininity and feeling more in community.
Like he's the one that kind of turns around masada's apartment
starts cleaning it starts cooking for both her
and asuka their roommate and like i think they even call him a housewife at
a couple points and even the way he dresses when he's around the house is very
androgynous sometimes it's like almost identical to what one of the other women

(31:12):
around him is wearing and i.
That's where it really resonates when i watch it now like okay i don't think this was intentional.
Coding there but like this this feels
what it's like to finally feel comfortable in one's own skin or one's
femininity like when shinji just gets to be comfortable at home not piloting
the damn robot yeah i mean oscar even forcibly feminizes him and puts him into

(31:36):
ava unit two and he's like yeah and and what's so like he feels a little uncomfortable
but what's interesting is in that.
And there's also when he's dressed when they're training for that synchronized
fight. And so they're in like these dance leotards.
It's kind of like he doesn't protest it that much.
And his protest around it is when he's in the leotard, it's about being seen

(32:00):
by the guys in his life and how they are going to react to him in it.
And he's like, I don't want anyone to see me in this.
And it's like, there's a little bit of a difference with I don't want anyone
to see me in this. And I don't want to see myself in this.
I think that that is definitely as having a background where I,

(32:21):
in theater, was always cast as the straight guy who, for some reason,
does a remarkable job playing the transcoded cross-dresser characters.
And I'd be like, yeah, I'm the maid, you know, going around in these things.
And yeah, and so I relate to the being thrown into the only I didn't have an

(32:44):
issue since I was in a space that allowed it. I didn't have an issue with.
But then once I was started cross dressing at my own home, there was that feeling
of like, I just don't want someone to knock on the door and see me in this.
But I don't mind being in it.
Yeah. That's actually another one of your videos that like, there's a lot of
high relating there, like in talking about the early trans and cross-dressing experiences.

(33:09):
But like, yeah, and I really like how you pointed it out, like Shinji doesn't
have an issue wearing any of this, like it very much is a visibility thing,
like how he covers himself in the AV unit to plug suit, like it's almost a modesty thing for him.
But also, yeah, like how others are visualizing him. And then there's also an aspect of Kaoru.
So Kaoru is the character who shows up near the end of the series,

(33:33):
where there's implications of a gay relationship between Kaoru and Shinji,
or Shinji at least exploring his own queerness with Kaoru.
I believe in the Netflix version, they actually cut away from the scene where
it's very clearly looks like he's being kissed by Kaoru, but that's not the

(33:53):
case in the original version.
And I think that there's a moment where Kaji,
the adult guy who's in Semisalo, goes to, and this is talking about Shinji and
how he perceived his identity as, if we agree that, okay, Shinji is like a trans femme egg, right?

(34:14):
Then we look at, okay, well, sometimes the way that our gender dysphoria and
the rules we have for ourselves for performing gender, you know,
are deeply intertwined with how we.
Engage in our sexuality. Like I know for myself, I would be hanging around my

(34:35):
best friends as like a teenager.
And I think, oh man, if I was a girl, I'd probably date one of them.
And I had no idea that I was like queer in any way.
And I think, oh, but like I'm a guy, so we're just best friends.
And I often had this idea of like, if I think a guy's really cool,
that means that if he was a girl or if I was a girl,

(34:55):
then I would be attracted to him, which was this weird
mental block i set up for myself and with with shinji
he gets like given a
drink and offered to go on a walk by kaji and kaji is this womanizer and so
when kaji offers like his and it's kind of charming towards shinji the first
thing he says is i'm a boy he's like kaji i'm a boy and then it's like and then

(35:20):
they go and they have this talk and it's very like like, Kaji explaining,
like, women and life to Shinji, and he develops this dynamic there.
And then later, so in that moment, it is this interesting thing where it's almost
like the problem that Shinji presents to why this shouldn't be happening is the fact that he's a boy.

(35:41):
Which I know is a completely, like, ridiculous queer trans take on it.
But as a queer trans person watching it like there
are there were times where there were guys who were
into me where i wasn't into them
because i was a boy i was like no
that doesn't make sense we can't do that i'm a you know
not in like a i i hate the gays type way but in

(36:02):
a no me me personally something's wrong there
there's a disconnect and then later on in
the series when paru shows up shinji sort of discovering that like through karu's
advances and then like showering together and karu sort of like just having
this like walking Shinji through understanding that intimacy and closeness doesn't

(36:24):
have to fit into certain gendered,
sexualized structures.
And I like that. I like that perspective. And of course, everything I say,
this is my perspective as a queer trans intersectional feminist,
reading a piece of media I like.
This is not me walking around saying, oh, you relate to Shinji?

(36:44):
You're trans. You probably are. But no, I always like to remind people,
because sometimes people get a little bit weird with media analysis.
That this is this is part this is part of
the conversation is how my unique perspective noticed things
and interpreted it in this way that doesn't mean my
perspective is more or less than yours is

(37:05):
just they're different because we're human and like
i've gotten more into the director hideki
ano's other work like being big
into tokusatsu i love his stuff like shen ultraman shin
godzilla and like i don't see the same
exact themes projected onto his other protagonist there
so this is by no means something that i think is textual

(37:26):
either but like the fact that it
is so easy and is so common that i
see in the trans community people kind of projecting these themes
or at least projecting themselves onto shinji or other characters
like i know with the netflix redub
we had a whole new cast and we had a non-binary trans
voice actor voicing shinji now casey

(37:48):
mongillo and like even vice had
a whole extended think piece on like how
this new dubbing of the character like
you can see a lot more of the kind of
like a trans experience or like there's a certain way shinji clearly has a bit
more shame and the way he's delivering certain lines that like well i think

(38:10):
there's a lot of other ways that this new dub falls short i love casey mongillo's
version of Shinji and like I think that's one of the main reasons I kind of stick to it is that I.
Despite them trying to limit the textual queerness in it, I am able to project
the trans experience on it that much more.
And that's completely based on a voice acting or delivery level.

(38:33):
Yeah, I didn't know that it was a trans voice actor. That's so cool.
And I really liked Shinji's performance when I was watching the Netflix version.
I wanted to circle back real quick to the character of Asuka,
since you had mentioned that a lot of your modern rewatches kind of centered around her.
And I'd like to know what it is that specifically draws you to that character

(38:55):
and where you think she fits within this discussion.
Asuka is a cool character because it is a it is a breakdown of the what's that
trope of like the crazy girl in anime or in manga.
Would it be Manic Pixie Dream Girl still in anime? well no well she's not manic
pixie dream girl she's more because ray's a little bit more manic pixie they're

(39:16):
both a little it's that what is that it's like the angry aggressive girl who's the.
It's a trope okay yeah i know what you're talking about yeah well so and so
that trope shows up a lot and it's like well what would actually what would
that person's psyche have to actually be like what would their life experiences
actually have to be like to justify that type of absurd

(39:39):
behavior, that level of aggression and weird, closed off, disordered attachment style and everything.
And with Asuka, you see, oh, it's the confident, oh, she's the badass girl,
and she's the fighter, and she's like, Shinji, you suck.
Idiot Shinji. And then you slowly see, oh, this is all she has in her life is to be a pilot.

(40:03):
And she's lost her mom very traumatically and was discarded by her family.
And she has this really interesting thing of feeling like.
Not knowing, like, she doesn't have a father figure. She has Kaji who paid attention to her.
And then her seeing how Kaji is back when they're all, Kaji's interested in

(40:25):
Asato and they've got, they have history together and are adults exploring romance.
And meanwhile, Asuka is feeling this like,
oh, I need to become an adult so fast because that is how I'm going to be able
to get this attention from people because I'm no longer,
I'm losing attention that I'm getting from piloting the Eva because Shinji keeps outshining me.

(40:50):
And I'm losing the attention from Kaji and these men.
So I need to grow up fast and I need to sexualize myself more and be seen as
a woman in order to get some form of closeness that she's desperately lacking.
And she pushes everyone away and has that confident facade.
And so when you see this trope of this sort of hypersexual aggressive

(41:13):
girl who's like going for the
the dumb idiot like soft boy main character it's
like well yeah that girl would have to have all this
trauma so ask us an exploration of what would
actually be happening to create a person like that i feel
like you can see some themes of gender dysphoria with like shinji
and his relationship both to being an ava pilot and ava

(41:36):
itself i feel like it's more general like actual body
dysphoria with Asuka like by all means
like she's as accomplished as any adult in this
franchise like we hear about how she's like got college
degrees is almost like an olympic level athlete does
not seem to like be on the same level as any
of her peers like she has a hard time relating to

(41:57):
other students and like it is just this desperate cry
to be taken seriously like to stop being talked down to and to yeah be seen
as an adult and I remember when I first saw this like I had the impression of
like ah bitch Asuka and I feel like that's a really common first impression
reading of this but like every time I've revisited it I see how much more it's like.

(42:20):
Oh no she's the only person that's like worked to get
here and is trying so hard to be taken seriously and
not just as a tool of like nerve but is
also competing like with the definition of nepo babies
like literally the boss's kid and someone genetically engineered
for this job and fully understanding like
yeah i'd probably be a bitch too to these other

(42:42):
characters that just like get to be here despite like not having any social
skills not having any confidence in oneself self and always being reluctant
to get in the robot and all speaking of nepo baby that is another factor of
the series that i really love in a way that it flips a shonen rope on a ted because.

(43:02):
Oftentimes the main character to shonen right it's like oh well he's
born special some people are born with special magic
skills or why are you the best because i was born with
this thing and it's kind of always kind of has this bioessentialist approach
right whereas that with shinji the The reason that he's the best and the main
character is because he was born into the father of the company who is specifically

(43:26):
designing an environment in which he can use Shinji to his own means.
And so it's like, well, he's the main character and he is. Oh,
why is he so well synced up with Eva Unit 1?
And he's so good and can do all this stuff. And it's all because of forms of nepotism.

(43:46):
And I love that because it's still extremely compelling and all of the stuff
he's going through is so intense and you don't walk away from it being like,
oh, I wish I was the chosen one or, oh, you don't walk away from it thinking
that some people are just born better, which is a underlying theme of pretty

(44:09):
much any story where some people have powers and that's who the main characters are, right?
Is this some people are born better. That's why they're more important.
Whereas with Shinji, he's not even the most skilled Ava pilot,
but he's the most important because of his connection and being born into this,
you know, as the son of the company owner.
And I really like that as a sort of deconstruction of class and everything is interesting.

(44:35):
And like shinji's relationship with his dad too
like again very kind of trans family
conflict in that shinji's dad literally not i
guess not literally dead names him but calls him by the role rather than his
son's name like anytime they're trying to either disassociate like that connection
or they're mad at shinji they refer to him as ava unit one pilot like they don't

(44:58):
even call him by his name so they're just putting that designation they're like no no you're just the
role I expect of you. You're not even like this person.
You say you are. That is amazing.
I love that. That is such a great thing to pick up on. And it's so true.
It's, yeah. And then, and that highlights that internal struggle of,

(45:20):
well, for me to have these connections with these people, I'm being,
I'm piloting this thing.
I'm being this thing that I don't really want to be and that I'm,
that hurts me all the time.
And to an extent at the same time, I
still am going to get dehumanized i'm still
going to have my own agency stripped it's just i'm begging

(45:40):
for the scraps of it and especially if i say
that i don't want to be a part of this or if i put up a fuss it's i'm going
to be reinforced to do it by having my identity stripped from me and having
my role reminded so with shinshi it's oh i don't want to do this ava pilot unit
one ava unit one pilot do this.

(46:02):
Where it's like, oh, I don't know. I don't want to have to be on the men's soccer team or something.
It's like, you are a man. You must do this. I want to wear this instead.
It's not you as an individual have a reason that you have to do this certain
thing, but it's that you as the role of a man have, that's why.
And so it's this dehumanizing aspect too of, no, it's just because you played this role.

(46:27):
And I love that. I'm going to rewatch it Didn't think all about that.
It's getting dead named and kind of being, it's like the comments I'll get. You are a man.
Which okay. You are a NAVA pilot.
There's gotta be some like Chrome extension or something we can get that changes
that string into you are NAVA pilot. Every time someone's trying to misgender you.

(46:47):
I could probably pull some strings, get that made. Yeah.
But I do want to touch specifically on the rebuild films and like maybe some
of the trans themes are just more present for me because that's where I was
in my revisiting of the franchise and like becoming more aware of those themes in myself.
But I do think it gives a lot more to like pick apart.

(47:10):
There is good queer imagery in here. Like, for one thing, the third film,
even though it's where things kind of take a more controversial term,
we get a lot more of Shinji and Kaoru.
And, like, that alone almost makes it worth it. We get, like, 40 minutes of them.
And also, like, maybe the best bisexual piano scene in all of cinema.

(47:31):
And, like, just one of the most, like, great non, like, physical fan service,
but yet, like, great emotional, intimate connections between two characters.
And like, this is peak suggestive imagery here.
And I think it also helps with, you know, I think a recurring theme that queer
people talk about, especially before realizing their queerness.

(47:53):
Is, you know, the aspect of the sort of oddly, like, homoerotic friendships
or these weird, what is it, the, like, intense platonic relationship that,
you know, ends in a big ol' fire.
And what's fun and interesting with Shinji throughout the whole story is that
he doesn't really have, well, actually in the movies, he has a clear romance with Ray, right?

(48:18):
With one of the Rays, he has a clear romance.
And that actually, that adds a little bit more of a nice little thread,
but there's a lot of ambiguity around his sexuality.
Like, obviously he's like a horny teen boy and it's around all these women and it's like,
there's that aspect of his sexuality, but it's not

(48:39):
ever necessarily tied to romance and
even with his relationship with ray yeah there's like some fan service in the
beginning and he stumbles onto her and she's naked and everything but it's a
series that i feel like does a really interesting thing where it separates sexuality

(49:00):
and that development for the character,
it separates that from the development of.
Romance and close relationships. And it's more ambiguous.
He's got the scene in End of Evangelion at the very beginning where he's trying
to wake up Asuka who's in a coma and he's shaking her to wake up and she rolls
over and her breasts are out and he ends up masturbating to it.

(49:23):
And then being like, I'm so fucked up. And he was just one of his friend and
then he's overwhelmed by his own curviness to jerk off to that, right?
And he even kisses Asuka at that one time. Asuka wants him to kiss Asuka.
And it's not that that is in his sexuality. There is inherently tied to a romantic connection.
And it's more that he struggles with how his sexuality does and doesn't apply to things.

(49:48):
And especially with like Karu, I mean, he's extremely romantically close and
has a bisexual piano scene and is wearing a little puppy collar.
And it's like, well, that's more close, but there's almost this.
Well but i didn't have those weird uncomfortable sexual
situations with this person and i did with that person my
really i think that that ambiguity of understanding one's

(50:11):
own sexuality is very queer and
one thing that like i know i'm
putting a lot on to the film with this that's probably
not intended but the character of mari i feel
like is sort of a symbol of shinji's untapped
feminine inside oh okay that's that's that's
fit i have i have a whole i have a whole my

(50:34):
theory with mari was that okay so with this series the series happens and he
gets to choose shinji is on that is is you know he gets to choose the fate of
humanity if humanity is going to become one unified god or or whatever he gets
to choose that and so he chooses to try again but this time.

(50:54):
With more of his own confidence and more
of an understanding of what he wants and that's what you see in
the rebuild movies is that it's shinji try that's
why that's why all the water all the oceans are red uh
and there are some slight differences in the plot whereas that in the series
it's the oceans aren't ripped but the oceans even though shinji went back to
try again this time knowing what he wants in life it doesn't undo the fact that

(51:20):
the oceans are all red now and And that's a sign that it's of the difference.
And you also see more of this sort of confidence in Shinji and more of this directness.
And you also see that in the manga, which is fantastic and is another cool exploration
of the differences and choices, the subtle ways that Shinji is being more direct.

(51:40):
When he's being more rebellious instead of passive. And my whole thing is that
with Mari, I don't like her.
So I had to find a reason why I was okay with her.
One thing is that it feels very tongue-in-cheek, right? It's almost like an
insult of crazy American fans and everything.

(52:00):
And it's sort of like making fun of the idea of fan service and like,
well, here's the character you want. Look, she has no backstory.
She pilots the big robots and she's all kooky and crazy. She's all of Asuka
without any of Asuka, right?
And my thing that I would say is that when Shinji went back and retried everything,
is that she was all of the angst and all of that frustrating.

(52:29):
Upsetting, unspoken stuff of Shinji that he's leaving behind all got boiled
into this new pilot who is all of that.
It's all of the angst that's now been removed.
And so I love that you were like, oh, she's like a trans version,
because I always imagined she was kind of like this embodiment of what was left

(52:49):
behind. I mean, I see her as like the woman that Shinji would become one day.
I mean, like she's already like an icon of femininity. Her Ava is freaking pink, for God's sake.
She's the only Ava pilot, one of the only characters to share the same hair
color as Shinji, more or less.
As far as like an ideal version, she's got the glasses as well.

(53:10):
That's a big imagery point with Shinji and their parents.
There's like certain subtle vibes
comparing her to his mom, but that might just be me projecting there.
But i'm gonna spoil the end of the fourth one but i
know that probably isn't a problem for you the fourth rebuild film but
like in it it's mari that ends
up saving or like coming for shinji at the

(53:31):
end of the film like sort of saving him but sort of more just being
there once shinji has accomplished what he needs
to accomplish as an ava pilot and they get
to move forward in like this recreated world
without Eva's where Shinji is now older and
with her like the last shot of this entire franchise is
Shinji running up some stairs with Mari and it's like clear that they're kind

(53:55):
of together and one I do love that like finally we get the like oh who's the
girl for Shinji not someone he had a crush on as a frickin teenager it's someone
though I can't around later I that's way more healthy for me and I'm way more here for it.
But like Shinji's future is Mari. And so even if it's not like he's going to

(54:16):
become Mari someday, like, I mean, my whole thing with love is it's seeing yourself
in another person and loving yourself more because of it.
So like Shinji, if he's not going to transition into Mari, he is seeing himself
in the things like he wants to be in Mari.
Cause yeah, she's, he, she's like the midpoint between Shinji and Asuka and like has that good,
healthy like admiration of asuka and gets

(54:39):
to be that like real support that isn't oh
well she's still disparaged like shinji is but like she's way more okay
with it and it's a way more companionable relationship that's so
what you said about my thing with love is that
i feel like um i feel like there's of
course a million things you could say about love but i think the thing with love is is it's
about being understood and understanding the other

(55:01):
person and being making that choice together
to continue trying to see each other and continue
being together and so when it
comes to that aspect of mari and i'm thinking about with you know
how she she fully is in control of her destiny she's she's the one manipulating
nerve in order to get where she wants and then she is piloting the a bus and

(55:25):
is even like i'm unlocking beast
mode and everything like she's completely They're completely at her whim.
And that's sort of like, what is it that Shinji is always searching for?
It's him always searching for being, you know, he has no connection with his
mother, and he's always kind of searching for that connection.
And that's part of what his struggle is with connecting with the Eva and with understanding the Eva.

(55:50):
And then, of course, Mari understands the Eva and fully connects to it.
And then, of course, what's Shinji's big issue is, of course,
being pushed around and manipulated by NERV and all the other agencies and where
she doesn't have that issue at all.
And so it's like, I could argue that into the point of it's that they're hand
in hand because they, I don't know, where it's maybe it's becoming one.

(56:12):
And I like that idea that it's who he turns into because she has all the things
that he wants to be in control of.
She's in control of her connections with people. And then she also wears a skirt and is a girl.
And so it would be like, well, if you look at how she has all of the things

(56:33):
that Shinji wishes he had, then you could say, well, then why is that limited
to just the things she has?
Aren't her own body and her own way of existing and her own gender. Hmm.
And I think one last thing I do see with it is there's a little bit more of
like gaining one's own identity with Ray in the fourth rebuild film.

(56:56):
Like, did you see enough of it to at least get to like the farming sequences of that movie?
I was so upset with, okay, so does Ray, I was so upset that it was a new Ray
and that the entire relationship that I had just committed years.
Years of seeing, oh my gosh, finally, like the end of the second movie is so

(57:19):
romantic in the way he's like, give me Ray and he pulls her out and starts second.
Going to I love that and so then when the third
one or the fourth one when the fourth one starts
and she's forgotten everything and it's a different right there was like what
I want the romance I want the romance that is now and so I was like and so I

(57:39):
and I was worried that over time it had become but I was worried that over time
the creator had wound up like reducing these really cool,
unique, feminine roles and roles of these women into sort of like not very fully fleshed out.
And so I, and so I didn't watch to find out that that had happened.

(58:01):
So I was, I turned it off.
I'm not going to say it's completely the wrong decision, but I do think you
should at least watch through the first hour.
Cause that's where you get all this great Ray stuff of like,
yeah, they, we get to see a human community in the post-apocalypse and like
the series finally takes a chance to really breathe.
We get to see Shinji processing all of this trauma from three films and a TV show Ray.

(58:26):
Who's like realizing like, wait, I'm a clone or I'm not the Ray like gets to
kind of form their own identity and like bond with these older women in the
farm, like actually really takes to doing farm work with them and learning the world.
And like still has a very beautiful relationship with Shinji. And like.
There's a naming dynamic to it like she asks shinji

(58:48):
for a name because she doesn't think she's like exactly ray
so like maybe a little trans themery there but
beyond that i'm like if you want to shut it off after the hour once the like
next title card shows up i'll watch it i'll watch the whole thing yeah because
the whole thing there's that next hour is like high intensity evangelion bullshit
of like yeah 14 years of evangelion events have happened and And you don't know

(59:12):
like any of this. So here's a big action scene.
And then we're going to do like the cool end of Ava ego death stuff.
And that's where it kind of gets good again. It's still not end of Ava,
but I really like the ending it leaves off on just since the creator's now in
a better headspace and the series gets to have a happy ending.
So like it's worth seeing. I'm not going to say it's all going to jive with you that well.

(59:33):
Yeah. Well, as in total, it's probably worth it for me to actually watch the whole thing.
Yeah now i'm obsessed with it enough before we
get to the question of the week are there any other final points on
ava you want to get into oh well i hope i hope
this recording went well oh yeah no this has been awesome i love it oh okay
okay hopefully you find some good bits and i didn't ramble too much that's what

(59:57):
a podcast is for nasika okay oh okay oh it doesn't have to be a four minute
three to four minute long story i know you're used to tiktok and being those
condensable fights with no this is literally just people ranting about
their hyper obsessions and i actually edit ours so like
i can trim it down make it better but yeah this has been great i've had so much

(01:00:18):
fun yeah i think that overall when it comes to like shinshi and the and the
transness and queerness of the show in general is that a lot of stuff that is really relatable for.
Folks who are trans is also relatable for anyone
who has experienced aspects of dissociation and of course like be especially

(01:00:41):
the way that the robots are portrayed the way that you feel all the pain and
you have also the way that they depict trauma in flashbacks which oh yeah it's
there's a moment at the i think it's the very end of the it's the end of the first.
Or it's the end of the second episode where first episode happens
and he gets forced to get into this fight where he pretty much
gets killed but then the ava goes berserk and

(01:01:04):
saves him and then the angel explodes all
around them but then right afterwards the next
episode there's no real there's not really combat that shinji
experiences and he lays down
in bed and has just been kind
of going in the motions and for a hot second there's
just a flash of like eight different

(01:01:26):
traumatic aspects of that fight he
was in and then it flashes away and he just
rolls over just like despondent and like
that depiction of trauma i think is really
powerful like the way he's and it sets
up the series of like this it's about this there's
trauma going on and there's about being forced into

(01:01:47):
to things and so a lot of times trans stuff that is
really relatable although this does have oddly unique aspects
of gender well you know that's that's because
teenagers are dealing with gender and sexuality and are still figuring that
out and another aspect is that well yeah like trans people have a shared relationship
with like trauma and a lot of people dissociate in order to deal with the trauma

(01:02:12):
of being forced to have the life in a different gender presentation and all of that.
That's actually that bed episode is one thing i do want to pick apart because
uh the second episode because it has like one of the most dramatic cuts that
like has inspired me enough that i'm trying to find a way to do something similar
in the comics i'm working on like
Like, Evangelion's clearly influenced a lot. I think a lot of it was subconscious,

(01:02:34):
and now revisiting, I'm like, oh, wow, this did so much of what I hope to do someday.
But, like, we see this fight about to happen, finally, or Shinji about to die,
and then it cuts to the hospital bed.
And, like, the climax of the second episode is then when we go back and see this fight.
Like, oh, my gosh, this is such a good way to, like, squeeze character elements
in with having an earlier climax in your story.

(01:02:58):
Because like that's a huge issue for me in pacing it's
like okay i need to like keep this going forward but i also want to
explore these characters and like yeah that's such a beautiful way
to do it is to like do the trauma route and
like let us see the aftermath and not just like
physically but also emotionally and then kind of
retroactively show what happened yeah humans love

(01:03:19):
a level of predictability to the extent where
then they're delighted when they're wrong
in their prediction action it's a good way to line up a
story right you're expecting okay oh this fight's gonna
happen and so i can see this pattern i'm
ready for the fight and now it's subverted into oh i'm
hearing about after the fight and then it's oh now

(01:03:40):
i'm gonna hear about it you know it's just
like with jokes that's why like rule of threes exist right you
list three things set up a pattern and subvert it
but on the opening of evangelion and also
enjoying this conversation i did want to reveal Just like
how the start of Evangelion starts with sirens going off
Towards the beginning of this episode Sirens were going

(01:04:00):
off here Like it was thunderstorming pretty bad And I started
hearing tornado sirens And like I live in Iowa So I am no stranger to windstorms
destroying half my town But I'm like wait no Nausicaa's talking about seeing
Evangelion as a kid I don't want to interrupt this story And presumably like.
Nothing too bad's happening up there Plus I record in my basement So I'm like
I'm about as safe as I'm going to be regardless Regardless,

(01:04:22):
I'm happy you didn't get blown away by a tornado.
So, yeah, this was enjoyable enough for me to persist through a natural disaster.
But so wrapping up, I've got a wild card question of the day tailored to either
the day's discussion or the guest's interest.
What I have for you today, Noska, is if you could give any other anime or TV
series a revised ending with like

(01:04:45):
a trippy ass End of Eva style film as a finale, what would it be and why?
Okay, yeah, okay, so do you mean I would revise it to be as,
like, almost, like, frustrating and mind-bending and, like, all that B-roll
and, like, insane monologues for, like, in the last two episodes of Nyanja?

(01:05:06):
Or do you mean revising it, like, End of Evangelion?
Or, like, I need more context.
Okay. It depends, like, it changes my answer. So you can alter the ending.
You can also, like, make it almost
recontextualize the whole series or do something really experimental.
But yeah, like basically this can be your way of course correcting the ending
of something you otherwise were unsatisfied with.

(01:05:28):
Oh, I would. I think I would.
I'm very satisfied with the ending of Over the Garden Wall.
All but i i would love i would love it
to be like way more just
like instead fall into some sort of
wildly prolific monologues and

(01:05:49):
explorations of the self and and the unknown
and everything through weird visuals and stuff there's
way more coma to explore there yeah there's more
coma to explore yeah i think i i would love
that i would love yeah yeah that would be the
one i would as you were saying that i don't it finally came
to me what i think i'd do like okay if i have to say an anime yeah

(01:06:10):
give guren login the movie treatment just
to like let that weird ending breathe a bit but if
it's any show i've had this idea for the office for
a while now of like the later seasons the office are famously panned by fans
and one of the things a lot of people criticize is egg helms's character andy
like his character radically changes three or four times and we see his connection with Aaron,

(01:06:37):
the person from The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Oh my God.
That totally goes from being like the next Jim and Pam to like Andy's being
like a toxic presence in the office over this relationship.
And for me, I think if that was clearly the intention, that'd be a brilliant
direction to take the series.
I mean, like, yeah, we did like Michael and Holly and Jim and Pam to the point

(01:06:58):
girls are still putting in Tinder bios.
Like I want the gym to my Pam, but like this actually shows how bad of an idea
it is to get into an in-office relationship, especially with the superior.
So if I'm going to give a trippy ending film to something, I want the documentary
that they are filming in the office to come out as a documentary film.
And it's specifically picking apart like these different inner office relationships

(01:07:21):
and like the fallout of it and like how Andy's relationship affected this company
has like catastrophic nervous breakdown afterwards.
Maybe contrast that with others. And like, yeah, there's so much that could
be explored about these figures that kind of went on to do big things with like Jim's company,
Michael, I don't know, but yeah, I feel like if they released the documentary

(01:07:41):
that the office is, And you could probably do this with existing footage without
having to get the cast back.
Like you could make a trippy film that just is the documentary.
I love that. That's yeah. That, that would be really, that's great. That's a great answer.
That's so, I love that. I love that idea of, yeah. Wow.
I got to find some fan editors online because I think we can make this with

(01:08:04):
what's already out there. I don't think we need NBC here getting the cast.
And plus, a lot of those people, like especially the lesser characters,
would totally come in for like post interviews on all those events.
Oh, yeah. I've heard this is ridiculous. There's just like random little drama
of people being like, oh, the vibes on set were weird by the by the end.
It's like, I don't know. My TikTok is filled with celebrity gossip and I can't

(01:08:27):
get the algorithm to change. What I want to be looking at is like cool lasers
and spaceships and like cool, cool animations of like a futuristic train.
And the algorithm's like, well, yeah, but also you never scroll away from celebrity
gossip. So this is what you're stuck with.
I'll admit part of the reason I see so much of you on TikTok is I literally

(01:08:52):
put screen time settings in my phone is to not spend more than like 15 minutes a day on TikTok.
Talk because i know if that algorithm gets its hooks in me and figures me
out i'm done my free time gone so like
oh you're one of a very small handful of people i actually follow
so like yeah i see plenty of your content and
i guess it knows i like cool trans essayists
so like i'm just fine with that for now writing has

(01:09:15):
thankfully pulled me out i was in a
in the winter i was just a little bit of a hole i was going through some
stuff but so writing has really pulled me out of
it because impressive just like how much how entertained
i am with the world in my own head and then also it's
so much more of a long form you know
storytelling and so it's sort of like rewired my

(01:09:37):
brain to be much less interested in a minute long thing you know and so that's
been thank god so if you're stuck addicted to scrolling start writing a book
that'll stop you but for those not addicted to scrolling or content with their
addiction to scrolling Noska where can our listeners find you and follow your work.

(01:09:57):
I'm just Nausicaa on Instagram and on TikTok and YouTube.
I'm uploading longer videos to YouTube soon. Well, yeah.
And then hopefully this summer, luckily, the one thing with being trans fam
is that surrounded with music engineer nerds.
And so I'm hopefully going to be able to get an album recorded and have that

(01:10:19):
out and finish a book, you know, just creative girl things.
Find me. Oh, can I give them my home address? Yeah, please do.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's my credit card number.
Well, thank you so much for joining, Naska. This was, yeah, I think even better than I expected.
I remember seeing your video before Transcending Comics even existed and thinking

(01:10:41):
like, can I make this work on my other podcast?
But I'm so glad I waited. And yeah, I'm so glad this turned into what it is.
Yeah. And I hope you're able to find the right amounts of stuff to edit in a more concise point.
I feel like that's the one thing where in a video, I'm able to do enough takes
and figure out exactly what I want to say in a way to have it all click together.

(01:11:04):
And when I start talking about things, I feel like I kind of start jumping to
the next topic before finishing the first one. So hopefully it all makes sense.
I've got an editing magic story to share afterwards, but it's one that can't
go on air. So I'll tell you after we end the recording.
But if the listeners at home have requests or recommendations for comics,
creators, or even anime you'd like us to cover in the future,

(01:11:26):
you can send them our way on social media.
You can find us on the Transcending Comics Instagram and Facebook page,
on Twitter as at Transcend Comics, or email us at transcendingcomics at gmail.com.
We'd like to thank you for giving our podcast a chance and give a special shout
out to Ray Day Parade for designing our logo.
Our intro and outro music this week is A Little Soul and You've Been Starring by Carlson.
You can check out more of his music on carlson.com. Join us again next time

(01:11:49):
as we continue transcending boundaries and exploring the colorful world of trans,
Trans, non-binary, and genderqueer representation in comic books of all kinds.
As the curtains fall on this episode of Transcending Comics,
remember that comics have the power to inspire change in countless worlds, including our own.
Keep reading, keep writing, and keep transcending.
Music.