Is nonviolence truly the higher ground, or is that just a myth handed to the oppressed by those in power? In this fiercely honest and far-reaching conversation, South African lawyer, activist, and former parliamentarian Magdalene Moonsamy returns to the mic to confront the moral binaries surrounding resistance, liberation, and the cost of freedom.
Key Ideas and HighlightsThe Violence–Nonviolence Trap Magdalene unpacks the deep flaws in framing Malcolm X vs Gandhi as a binary. “It’s as if there are only two options,” she says, “but human beings have all kinds of contextual conditions.” This isn’t just theory — it’s about lived realities and who gets to define justice.
Calling Out Gandhi In one of the episode’s most personal and confrontational moments, Magdalene critiques Gandhi’s legacy in South Africa, including the classism, the quiet partnerships with colonial powers, and the privileges enjoyed by some at the expense of the poor.
Beyond Strategy: What Is Liberation? Whether through armed resistance or strategic negotiation, Magdalene argues, the focus must return to the people, their suffering, their agency, and their right to decide how they are to be fought. “The idea that we can police what kind of seed someone else should plant... where does that attitude come from?”
Licensing Anyone can use this podcast for free, with attribution to Troublemakers (the podcast). It is held under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License and can be used for radio or any other media.
Acknowledgment Our podcast is inspired by the Beautiful Trouble toolbox.
Resources & Show LinksBeautiful Trouble: beautifultrouble.org
CreditsHost: Phil Wilmot Guest: Magdalene Moonsamy Producer & Editor: Rodgers George Recording: Samora Machel Studio, MS TCDC Music: Beautiful Trouble & Mwaduga Salum
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.