February 27, 2023 • 29 mins
How does our sense of self and identity play a part in belonging? And what roles do vulnerability, humility, (and Google) play in accountability?
Award-winning, Toronto-based BIPOC Career Activator and Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) Consultant, Gwenna Kadima (she/her), joins co-hosts Erin and Jade to unpack the nuances of belonging, accountability, and tangible actions with big impact.
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Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (00:00):
I find that there's a lot of talk about belonging,
but it's sometimes very abstract andfolks don't really know how to get to it.
Mm-hmm.
and what I love about this concept ofemployee resource groups is that it's
a really tangible way to impact theemployee experience in a way that is
true to the needs of that community.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:21):
I'm Jade Pichette, they / them.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:23):
And I'm Erin Davis and I use the pronouns she and her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): Welcome to Uncovering Belonging, (00:26):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:28):
a podcast that explores the professional and personal
stories of unique voices of whatit means to belong and the journey
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:35):
to finding our authentic self.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:38):
It is my distinguished pleasure
to welcome Gwenna Kadima
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (00:43):
thank you so much for having me.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:44):
Gwenna Kadima, (she / her) is an award-winning Toronto -based,
BIPOC Career Activator and Diversity,Equity and Inclusion Consultant empowering
marginalized individuals to achieve theirhighest professional potential through
targeted macro and micro intervention.
Gwenna catalyzes equality at theindividual level as a BIPOC Career
Activator, offering seminars, workshops,coaching, and other culturally
(01:07):
relevant career development servicesto BIPOC students and professionals.
Simultaneously, Gwenna addresses systemicworkplace barriers as an E D I consultant,
developing and executing intentionalDEI strategies and programming.
Her areas of expertise are sustainable,employee resource, group enablement,
and inclusive employee program design.
(01:28):
Gwenna thank you for being here with
us.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (01:31):
Erin.
Jade, thank you so much for having me.
I am very excited to be here today.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:35):
I know that this is the first time that you
and I are getting to meet Gweneth.
How did you get into this work?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (01:41):
Yeah, it's funny with me coming into equity,
diversity, and inclusion work.
It was kind of by accident.
So for a bit of context, Igrew up in Edmonton, Alberta.
Uh, my dad is from the Congo.
He's Congolese, and my mom isex generation white, Albertan.
And so growing up as a mixed-race,Black woman in the prairies
(02:02):
was at times very isolating.
I didn't have a lot of consistentties to my Black side, didn't
know a lot about African culture.
So what really had me come to thisinitial understanding of my own
identity as a black woman was aftermy first year of school at the
University of Alberta, I took a summerinternship in Camden, New Jersey.
(02:24):
And if you know of Camden, it's acouple hours outside of Philadelphia.
It's just across the river, and it wasone of the areas that was really impacted
by drug trades in the 1990s and asquite a large, marginalized community.
Mm-hmm.
. And for me, as this half-Black girl whogrew up in one of the whitest parts of
(02:46):
Edmonton, Alberta, this was truly thefirst time that I was in a community
that was predominantly people of.
And that summer, seven weeks only wasreally a shift in my understanding of
my sense of self and my own identity.
I felt like I could be a very differentand much more comfortable version
of me, which for the first 19 yearsof my life, I didn't even realize
(03:09):
was something that I was missing.
Hmm.
And it was one of those moments whereyou realize it in the absence, right?
Mm-hmm.
, because as soon as I came back toEdmonton, This light bulb moment of
recognizing what a space like thatmeant for me, my sense of self and
my overall health and wellbeing.
Hmm.
So that was happening simultaneouswith me being in my business program,
(03:31):
knowing, okay, I like the people stuff.
I like what's going on in termsof understanding how we work
together, how we collaborate.
Really focusing on the humanside of how we go about our work.
And in that never really feltlike I found the exact career.
Until compounding this understanding ofself and what was going on in my personal
reflections with a perfectly timedcourse on gender issues in the workforce,
(03:54):
which full transparency was not themost intersectional, but was amazing as
a grounding topic for me to understandthat these things about identity and how
we show up and who we are is actually apoint of discussion within the workplace.
Mm-hmm.
And so being a part of that coursewas enough to really sort of
put the pieces together for me.
(04:14):
In that I started to reach out to,at the time, the few practitioners
of diversity, equity, andinclusion who were in Edmonton.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like I met basically asmany of them as I could and have
still maintained a lot of thoserelationships to this day, and really
recognizing the work that they did.
And combining that with the sense ofbelonging and the sense of authenticity
(04:37):
that I was able to bring forwardin what felt like a more inclusive
space really is what encouraged meand gave me the momentum to wanna
be able to create that for others.
Erin Davis (she/her) (04:47):
I love that.
And you raised this reallyinteresting question, at least for me.
Have the people that we work with, dothe people that we interact with on
a day-to-day basis, have they spentthe time to understand their identity?
And is that potentially part of theprivilege of not necessarily having to
(05:07):
unpack that and just sort of inherentlyhaving the sense of belonging because
everyone around you is just like you.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (05:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Erin Davis (she/her) (05:16):
So when you think about doing this work, how have you found
a sense of belonging in different spaces?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (05:23):
So, when I think about having started my career
at Accenture, it's one of those spaceswhere before I even truly knew the
concept of an employee resource group,it's something that myself and a few
peers naturally gravitated towards.
Hmm.
Because what we had found is reallyremarkable about the organization
is that they've had a foundationfor ERGs for quite some time.
(05:43):
When I was with the org, there was12 of them in Canada, and although
Accenture Canada always had an AfricanAmerican ERG there was this concept of,
oh, Black employees in Canada can justhang out with the North American E R G.
What we really found was missingwas this understanding of.
The nuances of the Black experiencebeing in Canada versus being in the
(06:04):
US due to so many different factorsbetween demographics and history,
and also just day-to-day and culturaldifferences across the country.
So what has always been an anchorpoint for me in terms of belonging is
creating those spaces that are for us.
But also by us.
Mm-hmm.
, because having a bunch of Black analystsand consultants, so early entry level
(06:26):
employees within our Canadian office,being able to say, Hey, what we need
is different than maybe what ourfriends need yourself at the border.
And having the space to create that ina way that's truly meeting our needs was
kind of the catalyst for me to take this
concept of what belonging felt likethat summer way back when, and bring
it into a workplace setting verytangibly, because I find that there's
(06:49):
a lot of talk about belonging, butit's sometimes very abstract and folks
don't really know how to get to it.
Mm-hmm.
, and what I love about thisconcept of employee resource
groups, business resource groups,whatever you may call them.
Is that it's a really tangible wayto impact the employee experience
in a way that is true to theneeds of that community because
(07:10):
there's so often these grassrootsinitiatives that are built by us.
Erin Davis (she/her) (07:14):
Mm-hmm.
, I love how you said, spaces for us by us.
Yeah.
There's that magic and the giftof offering that space to others.
So I love that.
Um, I'm gonna turn it over to Jade:
Jade Pichette (they/them) (07:26):
I wanna thank you so much already.
So many of these pieces that I'm takingout of what you've talked about, you
know, the absence that is often feltwhen we aren't even aware of what we
are lacking to build that belonging andthen we enter a space that brings us
that, and sometimes that happens withinemployee resource groups within the work.
(07:50):
Sometimes it's other spacesthat we find outside of work.
Sometimes it's moments.
I mean, I was just on a panel andthe other two participants were
also, uh, trans femmes who wereneurodiverse and who were non-binary.
And that's happened twice in myentire life where that was the case.
And that sense of being not theonly one is a powerful thing.
(08:13):
Um, so you've talked about absence,you've talked about the power of
employee resource groups for us, byus, um, in disability communities.
We use nothing about us, without us.
What are some other barriersthat you are seeing for people
to achieve that belonging?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (08:30):
I find right now that so many folks are
very, very focused on leadership,which is absolutely critical.
And I've had moments where I haveseen the strongest representation
from senior leaders, and it'samazing and it drives so much.
But in those moments that will truly makeor break your sense of belonging with
(08:51):
the people that you spend the most timewith, that care and that attentiveness
when it comes to really those culturemakers in the middle is such a big part of
the equation that I find is often missedand something that I recognize takes a
level of maturity in an organization'se d I journey to get to that point of
thinking about every single individualwithin this construct as a change maker.
(09:13):
But it is something that I find whenI've had my moments where I felt
most out of place or most excluded.
It's not because of the folks with C andtheir title, but it's the folks that I
see on a day-to-day basis that I spendthe majority of my time with, who more
often than not usually haven't evenreceived the inclusion 1 0 1 training.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (09:35):
I hear this in my work as well all the time.
This idea of almost the quote unquotefrozen, middle, or what I tend to say
is the place that DEI goes to die.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what do you see where thoseculture makers and those in the
middle actually do make that change?
Because I know that we have people,managers who listen to our podcast
(09:59):
and want to be that person, butdon't necessarily know how to be.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (10:04):
There's really two sides to this question, right?
One, it's about the onus on theindividuals, which in an ideal world,
everybody is like the listeners of thepodcast and they're committed and they're
ready and they wanna get this right.
However, on the flip side, we haveto recognize that if we're still
in this world where we have to givethe business case for diversity,
(10:25):
just hoping the best isn't going toget us to the results that we need.
Right?
So thinking about sort of the two sidesof this answer, Really, the spaces
where I've seen us be able to bringthe most people along for the ride is
around driving that accountability.
Mm.
From a very tactical processand from a tactical performance
(10:47):
recognition perspective.
Because again, if we go back to thebusiness case and we bring it back
to dollars and cents, the areas wherewe see the most sort of buy-in for
individuals to really be on board withthis widespread across an organization
is when it's been formalized in theway that individuals are actually
recognized, evaluated, and rewarded.
Hmm.
(11:08):
But when we think about the folkswhere they don't need all that,
they know they get it, they'rehere for the right reasons.
What I find has really just made it sotangible in a way, if I think about my
own experiences and what we see from theresearch is truly having those people that
are genuinely invested in understanding.
What are the things thatmatter to each of us?
(11:29):
And taking the time to individualizeand know that it will take effort
and it'll take work, and we mightnot always get it right, but making
it very clear that the intention isto be better and not to cause harm.
And to really listen is one ofthose things that despite the
awkwardness or despite thosediscomfort, really comes forward.
And so to take that very tangibly,Thinking from a personal prior experience.
(11:55):
I was working with one of oursummer analysts a few years
back when we were at Accenture.
Lovely lady brought forward immediately.
She is like, I have been burned in somany workplaces because I have ADHD and my
teams have never known what to do with me.
I've gotten slapped on the wristsfor so many things that I've
articulated in the past, but havenot been heard or understood.
(12:17):
And so for me in that moment, myselfand the rest of the team, immediately
were like, okay, game, face on.
We get it.
We're here.
We're present.
Thank you for sharing this.
Let's do everything we can.
And yet still me, midway throughthis summer with our summer
analyst, find myself gettingfrustrated in these moments of.
I've already told her this before.
Why isn't this like, Iswear I've mentioned this.
(12:38):
This isn't happening atthe rate that I expected.
All of these things that frankly she hadwarned me and I had this moment of pause
to realize I'm missing something in thevulnerability that she gave forward at
the start of this summer to say, thisis what I need, this is how I show up.
It was such a moment to one call backto that individual experience, but
(12:59):
also totally got myself in gear and itfelt awkward as could be in the moment,
but immediately Googled effectivelymanaging employees with A D H D,
supporting employees with A D H D.
And I was genuinely shocked by thenumber of resources available and
the folks that have gone of their wayto put forward their time and their
effort to educate individuals like us.
(13:21):
And so taking all that forward,coming back and saying, honestly,
I have not served you properly.
I have not shown up in theway that you need me to.
This is what I suspect is going on.
Here's what I've learned.
Here is what I am committing to changing.
Does this resonate with you?
Is there anything elsethat you need from me?
Let's actually have this discussionbecause I have failed you as an inclusive.
(13:42):
And so really having those moments ofbeing able to acknowledge when you get
it wrong and get your act together asapand really show up and own that and chart
a path forward are the moments that,for this analyst, for example, made it
very clear it meant the world to her.
But as I reflect for the folksthat have been the same for me,
That vulnerability and humility insaying, I'm going to figure this out.
(14:06):
I'm here for you, have meant so muchmore than the moments where folks
have said all the right things inthat very sort of superficial way.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (14:15):
Love just so much of what you just said there.
Our team at Pride at Work Canada, we'recurrently discussing leadership and what
does leadership mean, and the number onething that came up was accountability.
And that's what you'redescribing here with that story.
You're describing humility,you're describing vulnerability,
you're describing transparencyand accountability.
(14:39):
And how we show up is those small moments.
And I think those are the moments thatwe build trust, that we build connection,
and that trust and connection reallygo into this sense of belonging.
Agreed.
So moving forward, we really wanna lookat what the future looks like, and so I
know Aaron's excited to talk about this.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:01):
Thanks, Jade.
Now I wonder if we should worryless about how do we imagine that
future that we're all sort of aspractitioners working towards and
just be more present in the now.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:12):
Fair point.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:13):
And so I pose this question to you, Gwenna.
I'm sure you have like a vision ofUtopia, but I wonder if you see a bit
of this, uh, juxtaposition betweensort of the like big, airy, fluffy
piece, but also these like tangible.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (15:28):
I love that we're all working in this space where
I've heard this for freeing so many timesof I'm just working to become obsolete.
Like I don't even, I shouldn'thave a job by the end of this.
So I love that.
That is the goal, and to me that'ssort of the definition of that
utopia you're talking about, Erin.
And what I also recognize though, is thatwe'll be working at least for a little
(15:51):
while, and for me personally, I try reallyhard to anchor myself in the tangible as
much as possible because I recognize thatalthough there are these huge systemic
changes that we need to make and thesehuge shifts that will require all of us.
That change is going to be slow, and forme is part of how I think about this work.
Again, sort of focusing on the tangible,yes, I do the DEI consulting work.
(16:14):
I focus on the organizations and thesystemic change, but I also think about
my work as a bipo career activator,which is fully focused on that micro
and really working with individualsto help them recognize that full
transparency were operating in thesespaces that were not made with us.
And it's gonna be a while before wesee those shifts, so it's crappy that
(16:38):
we have to be in these situations.
But what are the ways that we can atleast take some ownership and have a level
of control over how we navigate thesespaces, regardless of who built them.
So I appreciate you calling this out,Erin, because we need that vision.
It's a huge thing for us toreally understand what is the big
piece that we're driving towards.
(16:59):
But I also recognize that withinour own capacities, especially
recognizing the emotional labor thatcomes within this work, that there's
only so much that we can do in a day.
And so for me, it's really aboutwhy I focus on the specific areas I.
Career activator work and employeeresource groups, because to me, that's
where we get really tactical andwhere we can see those changes on a
(17:22):
day-to-day basis for the folks thatare operating in these systems today.
Erin Davis (she/her) (17:26):
I wanna pause for our listeners to reflect on this.
Yes, we get the long-term vision, butif we're gonna truly make the change
to get us there, it's about activatingwhat's within our own capacities.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (17:41):
Definitely.
Erin Davis (she/her) (17:42):
So what is your one piece of advice that you'd like to
offer to organizations working towardsa world that is inclusive for all.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (17:51):
When you inevitably have those individuals
within your organization who areraising their hand to make change,
empower, and invest in them.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:00):
Mm-hmm.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (18:01):
because again, back to this forest bias,
you need to have marginalizedfolks at the center of this work.
However, it's very important that youdon't just leave us out to dry and be
fully responsible for creating this changethat we are already subject to as the
ones who are limited or damaged by it.
(18:23):
Mm-hmm.
, but also now it's our responsibilityto fix this problem that
had been impressed upon us.
Absolutely not.
So when you see those folks,whoever they are, that.
I wanna see this partnership withthis community organization, or, Hey,
I think that we could have a betterexperience for our interns, or we
can think about new ways that we'regoing about recruiting talent and
maybe driving towards those goals.
(18:45):
Or, you know what?
It's Ramadan and nobody said anything.
Can you help me spread this message?
There is so much validity and so muchpower in grassroots activation, especially
within corporate workspaces, thattruly to have that meaningful change.
Let folks like us, roll with it,provide the coaching, provide
the resources, whatever may beneeded to maximize that impact.
Erin Davis (she/her) (19:08):
Mm-hmm.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (19:09):
and what I do wanna call out and make sure that this
is really conveyed at some point isthat when I think about the best version
of something like an employee resourcegroup, which is fully a very good
example of what grassroots activationcan look like, but there's so many.
A big part of it is really to recognizethat there's a limit to what your ERG
(19:30):
leads should even be doing in the work.
Absolutely, and this is a space fullof rampant burnout and overexertion
and emotional labor, and that wereally need to recognize that these
grassroots leaders who are doing thiseither side of the desk or as a small
component of their overall work.
They are known a proxy for havingdedicated resourcing and support within
(19:55):
A D E I function in an organization.
The onus shouldn't be fully onthese people who've raised their
hands as volunteers to create,activate, and execute upon your D E
I strategy, whatever that looks like.
They need the tangible sportsfrom the organization as well.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:09):
Amen.
I love that.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:11):
I would actually really love to add to that point, Erin.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:14):
Let's do it.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:14):
The thought that has crossed my mind in the moments where
I've experienced immense burnout as I havebeen asked to be the black employee or
be the e r G leader, whatever it may be.
Are recognizing that this is not just apoint of passion for me, passion is a huge
part of why we end up investing and formany of us becoming practitioners in this
space or fully dedicating to this space,but it's also deeply a matter of survival.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:40):
Totally.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:41):
And every time that I am brought into these forums, I am
very cautious of who I end up doing thiswork with because I don't want to be in
this position where I have to convinceindividuals that somebody who identifies
like me, or similarly to me or acrossany level of marginalization deserves to
(21:03):
feel safe and deserves to feel welcome.
Erin Davis (she/her) (21:06):
Exactly.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (21:07):
For us, it's not always just a matter of passion.
It's also this component of, ifthis work does not get finished, if
we do not complete this work, thenI can't be in these spaces safely.
Hmm.
I cannot show up.
I cannot feel comfortableto even take up room.
And so I really wanna emphasizethis because being invested in DEI
(21:27):
is being very different than beinginvested in financial strategy.
Mm-hmm.
, there's no personalconsequence to somebody.
Financial strategy for fiscalyear doesn't pan out right.
But there is that deep, and this sortof speaks to that emotional labor,
which a lot of folks not in this work,I don't think fully realize is that
there is also this level of safety andprotection and just baseline survival
(21:50):
that really drives a lot of us in howwe do this work that is really critical.
Erin Davis (she/her) (21:55):
A hundred percent.
Thank you for raising that.
And we are now at thebest part of the podcast.
But you know what?
All the podcast is great,but we get to do rapid fire.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:07):
I am ready for the soundtrack.
Play the music to start.
Yes.
I know what's coming.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:16):
If you could recommend one book, what would it be?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:19):
I have been loving the Red Rising Trilogy by
Pierce Brown, dystopian sci-fi fiction.
If I have those days where I'm like, Ijust need to shut off and I cannot deal
with this work anymore, I am heads downand cannot wait for the sixth book in the
series to come up and complete trilogy.
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:38):
A break is a very good thing, so thank you for that.
Next question, what brings you joy?
No matter what
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:46):
Spaghetti!
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:47):
I think we're getting like more food related
answers to this and I love it.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:51):
There is nothing that makes me happier than
spaghetti . Any form, any version.
Cut in however you want.
I take any type of pass at all.
Like there will be moments where I'm onthe phone with my best friend and she
can tell and in some sort of mood, andthe response will literally be pause.
Gwenna, have you had your spaghetti yet?
And I'm like, no.
(23:12):
That's why I'm so mad.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:14):
Love it.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:15):
We all need that carbs fix once in a while, . So
I know this is a challenging one,but what's your theme song for today?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (23:24):
I know this will be the second shout out in
the podcast, but it is so worth it.
What else can I do from Encanto byDiane Guerrero and Stephanie Beatres,
because to me it is the anthemof authenticity, going away with
perfection, creativity, and just.
Joy and every single time love that song.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:48):
I think I need to watch Encanto this weekend.
Next question, who is someone thatinspires you and how they create belonging
but doesn't receive enough credit?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (23:59):
Big shout out to Denise Pinto.
She was one of my colleagues at Accentureand she is one of the lead facilitators
in Accenture's Innovation Hub.
Her facilitation style, which isjust effervescent and warm and so
welcoming, and back in 2020 when wasreal rough for a lot of folks, she
facilitated the session with all ofthe Black analysts and consultants
(24:23):
and the way that this woman created a.
For all of us to really feel heard andsafer and a sense of community as we went
through what was an extremely difficulttime for our community, is something
that I bring forward consistently.
Erin Davis (she/her) (24:40):
Can't wait for you to share the episode with her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): And to close out today. (24:43):
undefined
What's one call to actionyou'd like from our listeners?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (24:49):
So for the folks that are leading the charge in creating
more inclusive, equitable spaces, rest.
REST is resistance.
I am so obsessed with TriciaHersey and everything she
does through The Nap Ministry.
Just a reminder, need to rest.
You have the right to rest.
(25:11):
Pick up a little sci-fi, eat somespaghetti, whatever it may be.
On the flip side, if you do notidentify in that same way, just say
thank you and acknowledge mm-hmm andsupport those that are doing this
work and putting their all into it.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:27):
On that note, Gwenna, I wanna say thank you
for all the work that you're doing.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (25:32):
Not a setup, not a, not a setup.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:36):
So grateful for this conversation.
I really look forward to us talking more.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (25:42):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:45):
My goodness.
Erin, thank you so much for bringingGwenna onto the podcast today.
Erin Davis (she/her): I love Gwenna so much. (25:51):
undefined
I've been so fortunate to see hergrow in the last number of years
from us having this conversation ina coffee shop in Edmonton to seeing
her doing this work every single day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:04):
Her discussion of employee resource groups was great,
but all the other pieces that shebrought to the conversation today was
the thing that I walked away with.
Mm.
Everything from the small momentsto how she missed something when it
came to a colleague with ADHD andtrying to support her in a good way.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:27):
Yeah.
Like she Googled (26:27):
"supporting people with ADHD."
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:31):
Yeah.
The amount of resources thatare out there is something
that people just don't realize.
Um.
Mm-hmm.
and those of us who are working inthe D E I space, sometimes, we're
not experts on everything, right?
We just know how to look for things.
, I feel like that's half of our job.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:48):
Yes.
Jade Pichette (they/them): An another thing that I think (26:49):
undefined
struck for me was her call.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:54):
I love that.
So to our listeners, make sureyou are taking time for rest
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:00):
and if you can eat gluten some time for pasta too.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:04):
Yes,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:05):
I definitely owe her a pasta date,
a spaghetti date at some point.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:09):
I love it.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed, learned anduncovered deeper belonging with us.
We would also like to thank andshare a brief message from our
sponsors, Pride at Work Canada.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:26):
For 2SLGBTQIA plus people in Canada to
confront today's economic challenges.
They need good jobs with risingincomes because of stigma,
stereotypes, bias and discriminationagainst 2SLGBTQIA plus people.
Empowering community members with skillsis simply not enough of a strategy.
Pride at Work Canada operates as a memberservices agency for employers offering
(27:50):
institutional education and guidanceto organizations that make a commitment
to supporting 2SLGBTQIA plus inclusion.
The vision we share with ouremployer members is a Canada, where
every individual can achieve theirfull potential at work, regardless
of gender expression, genderidentity, and sexual orientation.
For more information about ourmembership and programs, please
(28:13):
visit our website, prideatwork.ca.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:17):
Many thanks to our production team
editor and producer Shawn Ahmed.
Communications, LuisAugusto-Nobre Marketing, Paulo
Lima, and Production Support.
Connor Pion.
And of course, most of all, we'dlike to thank you for joining us
for this important discussion.
Connect with us on LinkedIn andlet us know what part of today's
(28:39):
episode resonated most with you.
For more information about today's guestslinks reference in a transcript, check
out our show notes, which are availableon Pride at Work Canada's website.
Thank you so much for coming on thisjourney with us to uncover belonging.
I find that there's a lot of talk about belonging,
but it's sometimes very abstract andfolks don't really know how to get to it.
Mm-hmm.
and what I love about this concept ofemployee resource groups is that it's
a really tangible way to impact theemployee experience in a way that is
true to the needs of that community.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:21):
I'm Jade Pichette, they / them.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:23):
And I'm Erin Davis and I use the pronouns she and her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): Welcome to Uncovering Belonging, (00:26):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:28):
a podcast that explores the professional and personal
stories of unique voices of whatit means to belong and the journey
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:35):
to finding our authentic self.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:38):
It is my distinguished pleasure
to welcome Gwenna Kadima
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (00:43):
thank you so much for having me.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:44):
Gwenna Kadima, (she / her) is an award-winning Toronto -based,
BIPOC Career Activator and Diversity,Equity and Inclusion Consultant empowering
marginalized individuals to achieve theirhighest professional potential through
targeted macro and micro intervention.
Gwenna catalyzes equality at theindividual level as a BIPOC Career
Activator, offering seminars, workshops,coaching, and other culturally
(01:07):
relevant career development servicesto BIPOC students and professionals.
Simultaneously, Gwenna addresses systemicworkplace barriers as an E D I consultant,
developing and executing intentionalDEI strategies and programming.
Her areas of expertise are sustainable,employee resource, group enablement,
and inclusive employee program design.
(01:28):
Gwenna thank you for being here with
us.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (01:31):
Erin.
Jade, thank you so much for having me.
I am very excited to be here today.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:35):
I know that this is the first time that you
and I are getting to meet Gweneth.
How did you get into this work?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (01:41):
Yeah, it's funny with me coming into equity,
diversity, and inclusion work.
It was kind of by accident.
So for a bit of context, Igrew up in Edmonton, Alberta.
Uh, my dad is from the Congo.
He's Congolese, and my mom isex generation white, Albertan.
And so growing up as a mixed-race,Black woman in the prairies
(02:02):
was at times very isolating.
I didn't have a lot of consistentties to my Black side, didn't
know a lot about African culture.
So what really had me come to thisinitial understanding of my own
identity as a black woman was aftermy first year of school at the
University of Alberta, I took a summerinternship in Camden, New Jersey.
(02:24):
And if you know of Camden, it's acouple hours outside of Philadelphia.
It's just across the river, and it wasone of the areas that was really impacted
by drug trades in the 1990s and asquite a large, marginalized community.
Mm-hmm.
. And for me, as this half-Black girl whogrew up in one of the whitest parts of
(02:46):
Edmonton, Alberta, this was truly thefirst time that I was in a community
that was predominantly people of.
And that summer, seven weeks only wasreally a shift in my understanding of
my sense of self and my own identity.
I felt like I could be a very differentand much more comfortable version
of me, which for the first 19 yearsof my life, I didn't even realize
(03:09):
was something that I was missing.
Hmm.
And it was one of those moments whereyou realize it in the absence, right?
Mm-hmm.
, because as soon as I came back toEdmonton, This light bulb moment of
recognizing what a space like thatmeant for me, my sense of self and
my overall health and wellbeing.
Hmm.
So that was happening simultaneouswith me being in my business program,
(03:31):
knowing, okay, I like the people stuff.
I like what's going on in termsof understanding how we work
together, how we collaborate.
Really focusing on the humanside of how we go about our work.
And in that never really feltlike I found the exact career.
Until compounding this understanding ofself and what was going on in my personal
reflections with a perfectly timedcourse on gender issues in the workforce,
(03:54):
which full transparency was not themost intersectional, but was amazing as
a grounding topic for me to understandthat these things about identity and how
we show up and who we are is actually apoint of discussion within the workplace.
Mm-hmm.
And so being a part of that coursewas enough to really sort of
put the pieces together for me.
(04:14):
In that I started to reach out to,at the time, the few practitioners
of diversity, equity, andinclusion who were in Edmonton.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like I met basically asmany of them as I could and have
still maintained a lot of thoserelationships to this day, and really
recognizing the work that they did.
And combining that with the sense ofbelonging and the sense of authenticity
(04:37):
that I was able to bring forwardin what felt like a more inclusive
space really is what encouraged meand gave me the momentum to wanna
be able to create that for others.
Erin Davis (she/her) (04:47):
I love that.
And you raised this reallyinteresting question, at least for me.
Have the people that we work with, dothe people that we interact with on
a day-to-day basis, have they spentthe time to understand their identity?
And is that potentially part of theprivilege of not necessarily having to
(05:07):
unpack that and just sort of inherentlyhaving the sense of belonging because
everyone around you is just like you.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (05:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Erin Davis (she/her) (05:16):
So when you think about doing this work, how have you found
a sense of belonging in different spaces?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (05:23):
So, when I think about having started my career
at Accenture, it's one of those spaceswhere before I even truly knew the
concept of an employee resource group,it's something that myself and a few
peers naturally gravitated towards.
Hmm.
Because what we had found is reallyremarkable about the organization
is that they've had a foundationfor ERGs for quite some time.
(05:43):
When I was with the org, there was12 of them in Canada, and although
Accenture Canada always had an AfricanAmerican ERG there was this concept of,
oh, Black employees in Canada can justhang out with the North American E R G.
What we really found was missingwas this understanding of.
The nuances of the Black experiencebeing in Canada versus being in the
(06:04):
US due to so many different factorsbetween demographics and history,
and also just day-to-day and culturaldifferences across the country.
So what has always been an anchorpoint for me in terms of belonging is
creating those spaces that are for us.
But also by us.
Mm-hmm.
, because having a bunch of Black analystsand consultants, so early entry level
(06:26):
employees within our Canadian office,being able to say, Hey, what we need
is different than maybe what ourfriends need yourself at the border.
And having the space to create that ina way that's truly meeting our needs was
kind of the catalyst for me to take this
concept of what belonging felt likethat summer way back when, and bring
it into a workplace setting verytangibly, because I find that there's
(06:49):
a lot of talk about belonging, butit's sometimes very abstract and folks
don't really know how to get to it.
Mm-hmm.
, and what I love about thisconcept of employee resource
groups, business resource groups,whatever you may call them.
Is that it's a really tangible wayto impact the employee experience
in a way that is true to theneeds of that community because
(07:10):
there's so often these grassrootsinitiatives that are built by us.
Erin Davis (she/her) (07:14):
Mm-hmm.
, I love how you said, spaces for us by us.
Yeah.
There's that magic and the giftof offering that space to others.
So I love that.
Um, I'm gonna turn it over to Jade:
Jade Pichette (they/them) (07:26):
I wanna thank you so much already.
So many of these pieces that I'm takingout of what you've talked about, you
know, the absence that is often feltwhen we aren't even aware of what we
are lacking to build that belonging andthen we enter a space that brings us
that, and sometimes that happens withinemployee resource groups within the work.
(07:50):
Sometimes it's other spacesthat we find outside of work.
Sometimes it's moments.
I mean, I was just on a panel andthe other two participants were
also, uh, trans femmes who wereneurodiverse and who were non-binary.
And that's happened twice in myentire life where that was the case.
And that sense of being not theonly one is a powerful thing.
(08:13):
Um, so you've talked about absence,you've talked about the power of
employee resource groups for us, byus, um, in disability communities.
We use nothing about us, without us.
What are some other barriersthat you are seeing for people
to achieve that belonging?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (08:30):
I find right now that so many folks are
very, very focused on leadership,which is absolutely critical.
And I've had moments where I haveseen the strongest representation
from senior leaders, and it'samazing and it drives so much.
But in those moments that will truly makeor break your sense of belonging with
(08:51):
the people that you spend the most timewith, that care and that attentiveness
when it comes to really those culturemakers in the middle is such a big part of
the equation that I find is often missedand something that I recognize takes a
level of maturity in an organization'se d I journey to get to that point of
thinking about every single individualwithin this construct as a change maker.
(09:13):
But it is something that I find whenI've had my moments where I felt
most out of place or most excluded.
It's not because of the folks with C andtheir title, but it's the folks that I
see on a day-to-day basis that I spendthe majority of my time with, who more
often than not usually haven't evenreceived the inclusion 1 0 1 training.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (09:35):
I hear this in my work as well all the time.
This idea of almost the quote unquotefrozen, middle, or what I tend to say
is the place that DEI goes to die.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what do you see where thoseculture makers and those in the
middle actually do make that change?
Because I know that we have people,managers who listen to our podcast
(09:59):
and want to be that person, butdon't necessarily know how to be.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (10:04):
There's really two sides to this question, right?
One, it's about the onus on theindividuals, which in an ideal world,
everybody is like the listeners of thepodcast and they're committed and they're
ready and they wanna get this right.
However, on the flip side, we haveto recognize that if we're still
in this world where we have to givethe business case for diversity,
(10:25):
just hoping the best isn't going toget us to the results that we need.
Right?
So thinking about sort of the two sidesof this answer, Really, the spaces
where I've seen us be able to bringthe most people along for the ride is
around driving that accountability.
Mm.
From a very tactical processand from a tactical performance
(10:47):
recognition perspective.
Because again, if we go back to thebusiness case and we bring it back
to dollars and cents, the areas wherewe see the most sort of buy-in for
individuals to really be on board withthis widespread across an organization
is when it's been formalized in theway that individuals are actually
recognized, evaluated, and rewarded.
Hmm.
(11:08):
But when we think about the folkswhere they don't need all that,
they know they get it, they'rehere for the right reasons.
What I find has really just made it sotangible in a way, if I think about my
own experiences and what we see from theresearch is truly having those people that
are genuinely invested in understanding.
What are the things thatmatter to each of us?
(11:29):
And taking the time to individualizeand know that it will take effort
and it'll take work, and we mightnot always get it right, but making
it very clear that the intention isto be better and not to cause harm.
And to really listen is one ofthose things that despite the
awkwardness or despite thosediscomfort, really comes forward.
And so to take that very tangibly,Thinking from a personal prior experience.
(11:55):
I was working with one of oursummer analysts a few years
back when we were at Accenture.
Lovely lady brought forward immediately.
She is like, I have been burned in somany workplaces because I have ADHD and my
teams have never known what to do with me.
I've gotten slapped on the wristsfor so many things that I've
articulated in the past, but havenot been heard or understood.
(12:17):
And so for me in that moment, myselfand the rest of the team, immediately
were like, okay, game, face on.
We get it.
We're here.
We're present.
Thank you for sharing this.
Let's do everything we can.
And yet still me, midway throughthis summer with our summer
analyst, find myself gettingfrustrated in these moments of.
I've already told her this before.
Why isn't this like, Iswear I've mentioned this.
(12:38):
This isn't happening atthe rate that I expected.
All of these things that frankly she hadwarned me and I had this moment of pause
to realize I'm missing something in thevulnerability that she gave forward at
the start of this summer to say, thisis what I need, this is how I show up.
It was such a moment to one call backto that individual experience, but
(12:59):
also totally got myself in gear and itfelt awkward as could be in the moment,
but immediately Googled effectivelymanaging employees with A D H D,
supporting employees with A D H D.
And I was genuinely shocked by thenumber of resources available and
the folks that have gone of their wayto put forward their time and their
effort to educate individuals like us.
(13:21):
And so taking all that forward,coming back and saying, honestly,
I have not served you properly.
I have not shown up in theway that you need me to.
This is what I suspect is going on.
Here's what I've learned.
Here is what I am committing to changing.
Does this resonate with you?
Is there anything elsethat you need from me?
Let's actually have this discussionbecause I have failed you as an inclusive.
(13:42):
And so really having those moments ofbeing able to acknowledge when you get
it wrong and get your act together asapand really show up and own that and chart
a path forward are the moments that,for this analyst, for example, made it
very clear it meant the world to her.
But as I reflect for the folksthat have been the same for me,
That vulnerability and humility insaying, I'm going to figure this out.
(14:06):
I'm here for you, have meant so muchmore than the moments where folks
have said all the right things inthat very sort of superficial way.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (14:15):
Love just so much of what you just said there.
Our team at Pride at Work Canada, we'recurrently discussing leadership and what
does leadership mean, and the number onething that came up was accountability.
And that's what you'redescribing here with that story.
You're describing humility,you're describing vulnerability,
you're describing transparencyand accountability.
(14:39):
And how we show up is those small moments.
And I think those are the moments thatwe build trust, that we build connection,
and that trust and connection reallygo into this sense of belonging.
Agreed.
So moving forward, we really wanna lookat what the future looks like, and so I
know Aaron's excited to talk about this.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:01):
Thanks, Jade.
Now I wonder if we should worryless about how do we imagine that
future that we're all sort of aspractitioners working towards and
just be more present in the now.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:12):
Fair point.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:13):
And so I pose this question to you, Gwenna.
I'm sure you have like a vision ofUtopia, but I wonder if you see a bit
of this, uh, juxtaposition betweensort of the like big, airy, fluffy
piece, but also these like tangible.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (15:28):
I love that we're all working in this space where
I've heard this for freeing so many timesof I'm just working to become obsolete.
Like I don't even, I shouldn'thave a job by the end of this.
So I love that.
That is the goal, and to me that'ssort of the definition of that
utopia you're talking about, Erin.
And what I also recognize though, is thatwe'll be working at least for a little
(15:51):
while, and for me personally, I try reallyhard to anchor myself in the tangible as
much as possible because I recognize thatalthough there are these huge systemic
changes that we need to make and thesehuge shifts that will require all of us.
That change is going to be slow, and forme is part of how I think about this work.
Again, sort of focusing on the tangible,yes, I do the DEI consulting work.
(16:14):
I focus on the organizations and thesystemic change, but I also think about
my work as a bipo career activator,which is fully focused on that micro
and really working with individualsto help them recognize that full
transparency were operating in thesespaces that were not made with us.
And it's gonna be a while before wesee those shifts, so it's crappy that
(16:38):
we have to be in these situations.
But what are the ways that we can atleast take some ownership and have a level
of control over how we navigate thesespaces, regardless of who built them.
So I appreciate you calling this out,Erin, because we need that vision.
It's a huge thing for us toreally understand what is the big
piece that we're driving towards.
(16:59):
But I also recognize that withinour own capacities, especially
recognizing the emotional labor thatcomes within this work, that there's
only so much that we can do in a day.
And so for me, it's really aboutwhy I focus on the specific areas I.
Career activator work and employeeresource groups, because to me, that's
where we get really tactical andwhere we can see those changes on a
(17:22):
day-to-day basis for the folks thatare operating in these systems today.
Erin Davis (she/her) (17:26):
I wanna pause for our listeners to reflect on this.
Yes, we get the long-term vision, butif we're gonna truly make the change
to get us there, it's about activatingwhat's within our own capacities.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (17:41):
Definitely.
Erin Davis (she/her) (17:42):
So what is your one piece of advice that you'd like to
offer to organizations working towardsa world that is inclusive for all.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (17:51):
When you inevitably have those individuals
within your organization who areraising their hand to make change,
empower, and invest in them.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:00):
Mm-hmm.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (18:01):
because again, back to this forest bias,
you need to have marginalizedfolks at the center of this work.
However, it's very important that youdon't just leave us out to dry and be
fully responsible for creating this changethat we are already subject to as the
ones who are limited or damaged by it.
(18:23):
Mm-hmm.
, but also now it's our responsibilityto fix this problem that
had been impressed upon us.
Absolutely not.
So when you see those folks,whoever they are, that.
I wanna see this partnership withthis community organization, or, Hey,
I think that we could have a betterexperience for our interns, or we
can think about new ways that we'regoing about recruiting talent and
maybe driving towards those goals.
(18:45):
Or, you know what?
It's Ramadan and nobody said anything.
Can you help me spread this message?
There is so much validity and so muchpower in grassroots activation, especially
within corporate workspaces, thattruly to have that meaningful change.
Let folks like us, roll with it,provide the coaching, provide
the resources, whatever may beneeded to maximize that impact.
Erin Davis (she/her) (19:08):
Mm-hmm.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (19:09):
and what I do wanna call out and make sure that this
is really conveyed at some point isthat when I think about the best version
of something like an employee resourcegroup, which is fully a very good
example of what grassroots activationcan look like, but there's so many.
A big part of it is really to recognizethat there's a limit to what your ERG
(19:30):
leads should even be doing in the work.
Absolutely, and this is a space fullof rampant burnout and overexertion
and emotional labor, and that wereally need to recognize that these
grassroots leaders who are doing thiseither side of the desk or as a small
component of their overall work.
They are known a proxy for havingdedicated resourcing and support within
(19:55):
A D E I function in an organization.
The onus shouldn't be fully onthese people who've raised their
hands as volunteers to create,activate, and execute upon your D E
I strategy, whatever that looks like.
They need the tangible sportsfrom the organization as well.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:09):
Amen.
I love that.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:11):
I would actually really love to add to that point, Erin.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:14):
Let's do it.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:14):
The thought that has crossed my mind in the moments where
I've experienced immense burnout as I havebeen asked to be the black employee or
be the e r G leader, whatever it may be.
Are recognizing that this is not just apoint of passion for me, passion is a huge
part of why we end up investing and formany of us becoming practitioners in this
space or fully dedicating to this space,but it's also deeply a matter of survival.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:40):
Totally.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (20:41):
And every time that I am brought into these forums, I am
very cautious of who I end up doing thiswork with because I don't want to be in
this position where I have to convinceindividuals that somebody who identifies
like me, or similarly to me or acrossany level of marginalization deserves to
(21:03):
feel safe and deserves to feel welcome.
Erin Davis (she/her) (21:06):
Exactly.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (21:07):
For us, it's not always just a matter of passion.
It's also this component of, ifthis work does not get finished, if
we do not complete this work, thenI can't be in these spaces safely.
Hmm.
I cannot show up.
I cannot feel comfortableto even take up room.
And so I really wanna emphasizethis because being invested in DEI
(21:27):
is being very different than beinginvested in financial strategy.
Mm-hmm.
, there's no personalconsequence to somebody.
Financial strategy for fiscalyear doesn't pan out right.
But there is that deep, and this sortof speaks to that emotional labor,
which a lot of folks not in this work,I don't think fully realize is that
there is also this level of safety andprotection and just baseline survival
(21:50):
that really drives a lot of us in howwe do this work that is really critical.
Erin Davis (she/her) (21:55):
A hundred percent.
Thank you for raising that.
And we are now at thebest part of the podcast.
But you know what?
All the podcast is great,but we get to do rapid fire.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:07):
I am ready for the soundtrack.
Play the music to start.
Yes.
I know what's coming.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:16):
If you could recommend one book, what would it be?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:19):
I have been loving the Red Rising Trilogy by
Pierce Brown, dystopian sci-fi fiction.
If I have those days where I'm like, Ijust need to shut off and I cannot deal
with this work anymore, I am heads downand cannot wait for the sixth book in the
series to come up and complete trilogy.
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:38):
A break is a very good thing, so thank you for that.
Next question, what brings you joy?
No matter what
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:46):
Spaghetti!
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:47):
I think we're getting like more food related
answers to this and I love it.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (22:51):
There is nothing that makes me happier than
spaghetti . Any form, any version.
Cut in however you want.
I take any type of pass at all.
Like there will be moments where I'm onthe phone with my best friend and she
can tell and in some sort of mood, andthe response will literally be pause.
Gwenna, have you had your spaghetti yet?
And I'm like, no.
(23:12):
That's why I'm so mad.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:14):
Love it.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:15):
We all need that carbs fix once in a while, . So
I know this is a challenging one,but what's your theme song for today?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (23:24):
I know this will be the second shout out in
the podcast, but it is so worth it.
What else can I do from Encanto byDiane Guerrero and Stephanie Beatres,
because to me it is the anthemof authenticity, going away with
perfection, creativity, and just.
Joy and every single time love that song.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:48):
I think I need to watch Encanto this weekend.
Next question, who is someone thatinspires you and how they create belonging
but doesn't receive enough credit?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (23:59):
Big shout out to Denise Pinto.
She was one of my colleagues at Accentureand she is one of the lead facilitators
in Accenture's Innovation Hub.
Her facilitation style, which isjust effervescent and warm and so
welcoming, and back in 2020 when wasreal rough for a lot of folks, she
facilitated the session with all ofthe Black analysts and consultants
(24:23):
and the way that this woman created a.
For all of us to really feel heard andsafer and a sense of community as we went
through what was an extremely difficulttime for our community, is something
that I bring forward consistently.
Erin Davis (she/her) (24:40):
Can't wait for you to share the episode with her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): And to close out today. (24:43):
undefined
What's one call to actionyou'd like from our listeners?
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (24:49):
So for the folks that are leading the charge in creating
more inclusive, equitable spaces, rest.
REST is resistance.
I am so obsessed with TriciaHersey and everything she
does through The Nap Ministry.
Just a reminder, need to rest.
You have the right to rest.
(25:11):
Pick up a little sci-fi, eat somespaghetti, whatever it may be.
On the flip side, if you do notidentify in that same way, just say
thank you and acknowledge mm-hmm andsupport those that are doing this
work and putting their all into it.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:27):
On that note, Gwenna, I wanna say thank you
for all the work that you're doing.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (25:32):
Not a setup, not a, not a setup.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:36):
So grateful for this conversation.
I really look forward to us talking more.
Gwenna Kadima (she/her) (25:42):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:45):
My goodness.
Erin, thank you so much for bringingGwenna onto the podcast today.
Erin Davis (she/her): I love Gwenna so much. (25:51):
undefined
I've been so fortunate to see hergrow in the last number of years
from us having this conversation ina coffee shop in Edmonton to seeing
her doing this work every single day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:04):
Her discussion of employee resource groups was great,
but all the other pieces that shebrought to the conversation today was
the thing that I walked away with.
Mm.
Everything from the small momentsto how she missed something when it
came to a colleague with ADHD andtrying to support her in a good way.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:27):
Yeah.
Like she Googled (26:27):
"supporting people with ADHD."
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:31):
Yeah.
The amount of resources thatare out there is something
that people just don't realize.
Um.
Mm-hmm.
and those of us who are working inthe D E I space, sometimes, we're
not experts on everything, right?
We just know how to look for things.
, I feel like that's half of our job.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:48):
Yes.
Jade Pichette (they/them): An another thing that I think (26:49):
undefined
struck for me was her call.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:54):
I love that.
So to our listeners, make sureyou are taking time for rest
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:00):
and if you can eat gluten some time for pasta too.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:04):
Yes,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:05):
I definitely owe her a pasta date,
a spaghetti date at some point.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:09):
I love it.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you enjoyed, learned anduncovered deeper belonging with us.
We would also like to thank andshare a brief message from our
sponsors, Pride at Work Canada.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:26):
For 2SLGBTQIA plus people in Canada to
confront today's economic challenges.
They need good jobs with risingincomes because of stigma,
stereotypes, bias and discriminationagainst 2SLGBTQIA plus people.
Empowering community members with skillsis simply not enough of a strategy.
Pride at Work Canada operates as a memberservices agency for employers offering
(27:50):
institutional education and guidanceto organizations that make a commitment
to supporting 2SLGBTQIA plus inclusion.
The vision we share with ouremployer members is a Canada, where
every individual can achieve theirfull potential at work, regardless
of gender expression, genderidentity, and sexual orientation.
For more information about ourmembership and programs, please
(28:13):
visit our website, prideatwork.ca.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:17):
Many thanks to our production team
editor and producer Shawn Ahmed.
Communications, LuisAugusto-Nobre Marketing, Paulo
Lima, and Production Support.
Connor Pion.
And of course, most of all, we'dlike to thank you for joining us
for this important discussion.
Connect with us on LinkedIn andlet us know what part of today's
(28:39):
episode resonated most with you.
For more information about today's guestslinks reference in a transcript, check
out our show notes, which are availableon Pride at Work Canada's website.
Thank you so much for coming on thisjourney with us to uncover belonging.
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