Episode 141 | I’m “Questionable Boundaries”

Join us as Theresa kicks off the spooky season by sharing the origins of her favorite book, Frankenstein. She takes us through all the scientific advancements leading to the creation of the favorite creature. From resuscitating drowning victims to using electricity to generate muscle spasms in corpses, science hinted that reanimating the dead was just around the corner. 

Theresa also shares some of the darker parts of Mary Shelley’s life that added additional color to the horror and grief in the book. 

This episode pairs well with:  The Casquette Girls of New Orleans 14

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
Hi and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast.The podcast where two compulsive nut jobs became
friends because one of them sent the other a veryinappropriate meme and the other one has very
questionable boundaries. And then we decided tocome close, tell each other history stories we've
only recently learned. I'm host one inappropriate meme share. I'm Teresa. And that's

(00:35):
questionable boundaries. I'm questionableboundaries. I'm Angie. I was going to ask them to
guess which one is which but you blew it. No I did. Ihave a feeling they know us well enough because I
really think that had I known you this well I wouldnot have sent the meme I sent. Give it a minute. It
worked, didn't it? It did work. It did us why webecame friends. I received a very sketchy text

(01:01):
message and was like this is the funniest thingI've ever seen. Love this human. Friend. Yeah. So
now you know how I picked my friends. Yep. If you twowould like to make questionable choices that is
Angie.badboundaries at unhinged.gov. Dot gov. Ilove that. That's yeah. Good. I like what you're

(01:29):
doing. I think whoever has that address is going toreally hate me. God bless them. Thoughts and
prayers. You know I should probably put myneedlework down and look and see who goes first. I
think it's me. You think it's you? Yeah I have thedoc. Let me I'll just tell you for sure. I'm

(01:49):
scrolling scrolling scrolling. I'm lying. I havea different doc up. I it's me because you went first
last week with Eliza Bowen Jumel and then I went andtold you the story of Seidl Musashebo Benke. So
wouldn't that mean I go first this week? You wentfirst last week. Do you want to go first two weeks in

(02:14):
a row? I'll I'll fight you. I have a whole story.Like I have a whole hour story. I probably have a
whole hour story too. So I guess I'll just go then.Okay I'll sit here and hang out. Okay I am going to
tell you because we are now officially in spookyseason I'm going to tell you the origins of
Frankenstein. Love this. Okay my sources theScience Museum blog the science behind Mary

(02:42):
Shelley's Frankenstein by Katie Croson. TheShawnee or Say Wonnie review volume 89 number one
winner of 1981. The article is entitled ScienceFrankenstein and Myth by Theodore Zulkowski
Oxford University they have a timeline on MaryWollstonecraft Shelley's life and the podcast

(03:08):
entitled opinions about life and literature.Mary Shelley is a dissenting voice Inga Pearson on
Frankenstein and the age of science. Who buddy?That's a lot. I had some fun. Frankenstein is one of
my favorite books. I used to read it every year. Ihave I got myself down to one copy of Frankenstein

(03:34):
because I would move not find it and go buy anotherone and then get all of my books unpacked and go oh
look I've got three. I think I have three copies ofthe hot one for red October. I have zero I've never
read it. I've seen Sean Funnery play a Russian.Yeah a scotch man with a list play a Russian and he

(03:57):
killed it in the only way a B movie could be you know.Yeah yeah I only have three copies because my mom
kept buying I'm thinking that I didn't have thefirst one. I kind of like that that's a very sweet
move. Like what do you need for Christmas? Momactually I'd love a copy of the hunt for red

(04:19):
October. Wow that's a great book. I'm surprisedyou don't own a copy. I will get you one. I also have
multiple copies of Clive Cluster books because ofthat. You know what all of this checks all of this
check. Okay so are you ready? Yes. First off wedon't necessarily recognize this in our timeline

(04:46):
modern timeline because we are so there's so muchtime between now and say 1797 we don't recognize
the literary rock stars that Mary Shelley'sparents were. Okay so we have her father William

(05:10):
Godwin and her mother Mary Wulston Kraft Godwin.They are both like the who's who. Okay now August
1797 Mary Wulston Kraft Godwin she's born inLondon. She is now okay Mary Wulston Kraft is an

(05:35):
incredible feminist. That needs to be said. Yesshe is. Now when Mary's 10 days old her mom passes
away. Why? Because there's a little bit ofplacenta lodged up in this woman's uterus doesn't
quite pass causes a massive infection. Marypasses. Now Mary has an older sister half sibling

(05:57):
named Francis Imlay and she's known as Fannie.Fannie is from an illegitimate relationship
that's before William Godwin. Oh okay so alegitimate relationship on mom's side. Yeah yeah
yeah. Yeah okay. Apparently both parents kind ofbelieved in free love. I love this for them. Okay so

(06:19):
this is kind of one of those little pens to put in theback of your brain because there's like a lot of
like later on one passing line where Fanniematters. This isn't it but I need to introduce
Fannie now so later on you can be like oh okay. Gotit. Okay so 1801 William Godwin Marys a widow named
Mary Jane Claremont. There's so many Marys in thisstory. Okay so William Marys Mary because he's

(06:48):
already got the towels embroidered you know whychange a good thing and Mary. He never has to learn a
new name. That's true. Ian told me once that he onlydates girls whose names are Angie so he never
messes it up. Okay so this is a side story for you.When my child was like three she looks at Mike and

(07:11):
she says you're my favorite dad and he looks back ather and he says well how many are there. He looks at
me like I'm gonna catch you out. I'm gonna catch youout right now. I'm gonna learn. And she goes I've
got 11. You got 11 dads. What are their names?They're all named Mike. And he looks at me like I've

(07:35):
got a type. Mike's? And so like that was hilariousso that is now family lore. Okay but anyhow I'll
wish the Mike's to the Marys. They all start withthem. They all start with them. Mary Jane
Claremont moves in. She's got two kiddos. She'sgot Charles and Claire. Mary is going to have

(07:58):
constant conflict with her stepmom. Okay MaryShelley not Mary stepmom. Oh my god. I know do you
see? I know. Yep now she as she's growing up she isbrouaciously reading her mother's works. And so

(08:18):
like she is probably over indexing mom's thoughtsbecause mom's not there. Right. Okay now she also
becomes aware that her mother was resuscitatedafter jumping into the Tames River and I am looking
at you as I say it so you can hear the pronunciationin 1795. Now she's resuscitated by the volunteers

(08:44):
of the Royal Humane Society. Now this was a stab.When you say that I'm assuming you are not meaning
the dog group. I don't believe so. Okay. I meanunless their mission changed it may have started
one direction and went another. You know okay. Nowthe society is established by two doctors William

(09:08):
Haas and Thomas Coggan Cognan Coggan and it's thathappened really like in 1774. It was originally
named Society for the Recovery of PersonsApparently Drowned. So apparently the Humane
Society was just shorthand. That's asignificantly easier name to remember. Yep. Like

(09:33):
hey you've recently drowned. The whole societydevoted to that. The Tames was a busy place. See any
Phelanese I guess. You know. Honestly. Let this bea lesson. Now this was incredible because they had
published information on how to resuscitatepeople with specially designed equipment. This

(09:56):
equipment because we didn't I don't know if wereally had CPR fully established at that point. I
don't know. They pumped air into the lungs and theyended up so if you saved somebody you got a medal in
Grave with Society's motto. The motto waspre-adventure a little spark may yet lie hid. So

(10:20):
the spark of life might still be there. First of allcarry on get it going. Now they have this weird
machine. This machine might have been used torevive Mary Wollstonecraft. It had like a leather
balloon and tubing. There's also three stoppervials that contain brandy, a volatile alkali and

(10:43):
these were presumably to be stimulants. Okay.Okay. So they were really trying to do the things.
Now Mary Wollstonecraft the daughter who wouldlater go out to be Mary Shelley. She ends up growing
up surrounded by all of these things that havehappened in the past but there's because her home

(11:07):
is what it is she's surrounded with the leadingscientists, writers, politicians of the 18th
century. This is her living room. Okay. She takes akeen interest in science reading and attending
lectures. She's like really leaning into thesecutting edge scientific theories today and it's

(11:27):
during these periods that there's debates ragingabout the boundaries between life and death and
whether these matters should be probed in thefirst place. Okay. So we are still fighting this
debate. Yep. But I mean imagine you're coming in onit. Your mother is dead but you already know that

(11:48):
she's been revived. Right. Yeah. Okay. So she'sgone through the resuscitation process. So now
you're like okay. So this line is very blurry toyou. It moves. Yeah. Like how long do you have to be
dead where it doesn't work anymore? And these arethe thoughts that are going to be rattling around
in the back of her brain. Now there is as thesedebates are taking place. I think that's the word

(12:16):
you're going for. Yes. There is something that'shappening. It's like the life principle that
debate is happening between William Apernethiand William Lawrence of Royal College of
Surgeons. And this is about like what is the humanlife force? Like basically what is that animating
principle? Now Apernethi he argues that there'sthis vital spark that is super at its material body

(12:44):
to animate it. Like this is the soul. It's kind oflike the clock starts ticking after it's been
wound up. Okay. Okay. Now Lawrence is arguing thatlife just kind of exists. It's through all of its
functioning parts. So he says like part of the samewhole trying to extricate life and the body is like

(13:09):
trying extracting an egg from a baked cake. Likeit's just there. All right. Like I mean I don't know
if we have fully figured that out. I think weunderstand quite a bit but I think we get to a
certain point we go. They just gave up the goat. Iagree. But I'm literally. I didn't go to the

(13:32):
medical school so who am I? So we have all this goingon. Now I get to get into galvanism. Do you know what
galvanism is? I've heard it before but I'm going totell you just explain it to me because I'm thinking
I don't. Okay. So there is this newly discoveredforce of electricity. Okay. And the experiments

(13:56):
to test whether electricity itself can be whatreanimates somebody. Right. Okay. Okay. We have
Luigi Galvani. He's a surgeon at the University ofBologna and he's experimenting with animals and
electricity in January of 1791. Okay. Yeah. Longstory short. He's dissecting a frog. He's near a

(14:22):
static electricity machine and touched a scalpelto the frog's leg and the leg jerks. So. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Further experiments he's convinced thatthe muscle tissue spasmed because it had direct
content with the current. Now he doesn't announcethis discovery for 10 years until 1791 and he

(14:42):
publishes an essay entitled De Virbius. I shouldhave just put this all. I'm just going to say it in
English because I'm going to butcher so much else.The commentary on the effect of electricity of
muscular motion. Okay. That's what I should havejust said and tried to skip that first chunk of

(15:02):
Italian that was not Italian. Apologies to theears I have offended. The essay argued that animal
tissue contained an inherent force which is a formof electricity that flowed from nerves to muscle
tissue and he named this force animalelectricity. Okay. And he creates what he calls a

(15:25):
frog pistol. Which I love this is not a sentence Ithought I would ever write down. It looks like a ray
gun from some science steam punk movie. Love this.And he uses it to try to start to animate tissue.
Okay. But where he stops his nephew starts becausewe have Giovanni Aldini and he took these

(15:51):
experiments further by trying to animate humancorpses. Previous. I love it. You see where my
brain is going. Yeah. Okay. So he tours Europe withthese demonstrations and he goes to the infamous
Newgate prison in London in 1803. Now up until 1832it's illegal to procure human cadavers for

(16:21):
dissection unless you're using executedmurderers. So he's got. Of course it does. That
makes all the sense. I mean look you're not going todig up somebody's ante and start using her to like a
career man on. That would be so weird if it actuallyworked. Danny and he showed up to tea tomorrow. You

(16:46):
know it might make things a little bitquestionable about what happened. Why is my tea
set out? Why do you have my tea set? What are youdoing? Yeah. Warned you last week. Yeah. So okay.
He has to go to Newgate for these experimentsbecause it's illegal to just experiment on

(17:12):
anybody. Right. You got to get the executedcriminals. Yep. Now at one point. Which honestly
if that works that seems like reallycounterproductive. We executed you the first
time. We brought you back. You hung me until dead. Iwas dead. I'm not dead anymore. Ergo I have
fulfilled my service. Good bye. John knows exactreasoning. Good day to you sir. Right. Yeah. Well

(17:41):
Aldini inserts Metal Rods into the corpse ofGeorge Foster and the Newgate calendar recounts
that the jaws of the deceased criminal began toquiver and the adjoining muscles were horribly
contorted and one eye was actually opened. I hateall of it. Could you imagine being there? Honestly

(18:07):
I don't hate it as much as Terere. I'll try harderbecause I'm too busy imagining this smell and a
single eye opening and I'd be like nope I'm out. I'mout. Deuce has unplugged me. Yeah. Like I know I'm
on shift till three but I'm done. Yeah. Good bye. Mymom is calling. I gotta go. Yeah. Yeah I think I left

(18:31):
a fork in the microwave. I'll see you tomorrow. Thelive loft test for best. So okay this as this is
going on in a subsequent part the right hand raisedand clenched and the legs and thighs were set in
motion. I don't know if that means that they I'msure that just means that they jerked and not that

(18:52):
they pedaled and like he was doing bicyclers likehe was doing his ab workout. Okay because I saw
bicycling. That's what I saw happening. I really Ithe way it reads is bicycling but I think what
likely happened was simply the jerking andshaking. Movement. Yes. Yeah yeah okay. Now the

(19:12):
experiment obviously creates public sensation.Everyone's talking about it. And there's
widespread reporting of it in all kinds ofnewspapers including the times. Now people
thought that this start was that was the start ofthe technology that's going to bring the dead
fully back to life. And they're looking at this as Ithink anybody would a troubling and shocking

(19:41):
concept. Which makes sense to me. Like these arethe conversations you have when you realize test
you babies are now a thing. We don't even need toinvolve the act of procreation. We can do it in the
lab. Now what is the ethics? Are these babies goingto be born with souls? Right. You and I both know
these babies will indeed be born with souls orwhatever you know. But we're close enough to that

(20:06):
act that we can understand the conversations thathappened. Yeah absolutely. Okay. Some things.
Now all of that. Where was I in my notes? This wasindeed the closest men of science really had like
so they're thinking about all of this. They'retalking about bringing the dead back to life and

(20:29):
this has a huge impact on young Mary Wolfe's andKraft's child of Mary not step mom. Future Mary
Shelley. I think that's the easiest way to refer toher. Yeah. Agreed. And she keeps she latches on to
the concept of electricity being the spark ofbeing that Frankenstein would use to bring his

(20:53):
creature to life. Okay. Now one friend of MaryShelley's father, a man named Humphrey Davy, he's
a famous chemist and he carried out tons ofexperimental work on electricity. He's
lecturing and his lectures he's doing are famousand there's hundreds of people including many

(21:15):
women and that part excited me who would cramthemselves into lecture theaters to see him speak
and demonstrate experiments. Okay. That's cool.Love this. So as always had a fascination with the
macabre. I don't care what anybody says. I mean.It's I think to me it's the most fascinating. Like I

(21:39):
don't want to deal with flower arranging. I want toknow, ooh, what did that why? Why did that happen?
You know, you ask questions with that as opposedto. Oh, I arranged my flowers. I'm going to ask
these questions. Yeah, exactly. Now there's somedebate between this next bit right like either

(21:59):
between November of 1812 or March of 1814. Maryfirst meets Percy by Shelley. Now, okay. Percy's a
young poet. He admires Mary's father. He's fiveyears older than Mary and he's currently married

(22:21):
to a woman named Harriet Westbrook. Okay. Now, ifit's March 1814, Mary 16. If it's 1812, she's 14.
Either way, we're still a little young. So 18versus 21 and Shelley is Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,

(22:45):
Mary. Okay. Now that I've drummed that or beat thatdrum, Godwin, he is really kind of hurting for
cash. And so he's telling like, he's like, okay, wewant family, huddle up, huddle up family meeting
time. We were going to have Percy come over. We wantto make a good impression on him. We want him to stay

(23:07):
coming over because he's a young poet. And so weneed to get alone as a baronette so we can sidestep
this whole poverty motion that we're in fullswing. So now we've established that. Let the man
in, dress up, stand at the foot of the stairs. Now,okay. Be pretty. Do the same. Yep. Now our dude,

(23:31):
Percy Shelley, he has kind of a punk rock mindset aswe would see him now. Right. It's hard to think of
that in the early 1800s. Yeah, here we are. So ifShelley's indeed 16 when they meet, it's only a few
months later that Shelley runs off with Percy.Mary Shelley runs off with Percy. See what I mean?

(23:55):
Like there's too many Marys. This is now there'stwo Shelleys. There is no new names in this.
Honestly, it's a foresighted die and I'm justrolling it and just being like, well, I'm going to
say Mary. I'm going to say Shelley. Godwin. I gotGodwin one time. Yeah. Well, technically
everybody Mary's in or is born at Godwin except forPercy. Anyhow, anyhow, carry on. That's true. So

(24:20):
as Mary and Percy meet and run off to Europe afterthey, you know, fall in love, her step sister,
Claire, goes with him, despite her mother's rageand probably also incurring more step mom rage.
Yeah, okay. Because Claire is just, you know what?You guys are going to go off and have a great time.

(24:42):
Why shouldn't I come? This sounds like a great bit.Now, I love this. Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin. She
becomes pregnant almost immediately. Of course.And William Godwin, daddy dearest is furious. So
furious he refuses to see his own daughter for twoyears. Well, okay. That is, those are some big

(25:09):
feelings. He's entitled to them. I'm sure stepmomdidn't make things any better. Yeah, I would have
that feeling. But it's later, the year that theyrun off, that it's in August, they run off in June,
Mary and Percy run out of money after traveling inEurope. And Percy has to keep changing addresses

(25:34):
to avoid debt collectors. Oh, no. Okay. So, he'sthat kind of guy and I think that makes it hilarious
that Daddy Dearest wanted everyone to make, makenice so that he could get money out of them. When we
come to find out, he's just a good for nothing rate.Just as broke. Yep. So, February of 1815, she gives

(25:59):
birth to their first child, Clara. The baby'spremature and dies a few days later. Mary's diary
recounts a dream that she has where the baby comesback to life when the baby's warm by a fire. Which I
find heartbreaking. Of course. Yeah. January of1816. So, 11 months later, she gives birth to their

(26:26):
second child, William, nicknamed Willmouse.Okay. It's kind of cute. It is adorable. It's June
of 1816. She and Percy Shelley stayed with LordByron and his physician, John Polidori at Villa
Diodati near Lake Geneva. This is my favorite partof the story. Because you know it's coming? Yeah.

(26:54):
It is a wet, uncongenial summer, according toMary. It's got some long, unusually dark days.
Unbeknownst to Lord Byron and his party,everybody else, the unseasonable weather. It's
the coldest in recorded history up to that point.Okay. It was the year without summer. It's caused

(27:16):
by a volcanic eruption at Mount Taborra inIndonesia the previous year, which caused
massive climate change. Now, we're going to put apen in that because I need to expand the timeline
before I zoom back into the summer. Okay. October,1816, Mary's half-sister, Fanny Imley, who is

(27:40):
older than her, commits suicide by loddenumoverdose at age 22. I hate that for her. December,
1816, Shelly's 21-year-old wife, Percy Shelly's21-year-old wife, Harriet Westbrook is found
dead in London's Serpentine River. Oh, right,because he didn't get a divorce. He just ran off

(28:07):
with the C.R. Mistress. Exactly. Right, okay. Shewas pregnant with her third child, which was
probably illegitimate. Well, yeah, becauseshe's been gone. Yeah, he wasn't there at the time.
Yeah, okay. That's sad. That made me sad. That mademe sad, okay. 15 days after discovering Percy's
wife has died, Percy and Mary get married inLondon. Okay. She super mourned her, didn't he?

(28:35):
You know what? Yeah, he mourned her from afar, andthank goodness he had somebody else to get under to
get over her. By the time Percy and Mary getmarried, she's pregnant with their third child.
Well, okay. Percy was good at one thing. They'rebusy. No, it's also about this time she reconciles

(29:03):
with her dad. Oh, that's good. Okay. Okay. In May of1817, she'd finished writing Frankenstein, so
now that we know all of that, I'm going to zip back tothe summer of 1816. So that really cold summer,
Lake Geneva, there's still snow on the cabin or onthe mountain. They'd stayed in Byron's cabin, and

(29:25):
they were ecstatic because Milton had also stayedthere. Like John Milton? Milton is in Paradise
Lost. Yeah, that's John Milton. Okay. I rememberhis first name, and I didn't know him that well, so I
was just like, I'm just going to fast forward.We've only met. We've only just met. You know, I
don't call him Jack because we're not that close. Idon't want to be too formal or too informal. So

(29:55):
they're all excited with this concept, right?Claire, the step-sister. She's also on this trip.
She's absolutely thrilled because she isenthralled with Lord Byron. Okay, because who's
not? Let's be honest. I mean, you could either bewith Shelly, who is a chump when he's, I mean, he

(30:15):
just, he sounds like a playboy. Byron, probablyalso a playboy, but I mean, he brought a bear at one
point to some event. Like, you know what I mean?Like, this is the level of chaos they're working
with. Now, Byron's personal physician, Dr. JohnPalladori, he is paid to secretly report on Byron

(30:36):
to basically the modern or the previous days, thepast days, like paparazzi. Like, that is the, he's
writing this and sending it out so everybody cankeep it for the rest of the shenanigans. He's also
the personal physician, as I said. Now, they'reall cooped up in this cold cabin on this supposedly

(30:57):
summer day, talking about evolution, scientificdiscovery, what life is, and what is the animating
principles if it's not God? And Mary keepsdreaming about dead kids. That's devastating. It
is, but I think this is just part of how she'sprocessing everything. You know that makes

(31:21):
sense. So, as they're all sitting by a fire, Byronproposes that every person in the party needs to
write a ghost story. And Shelly would laterrecount in her 1831 introduction to Frankenstein
how one evening, the group discussed theboundaries of life and death that perhaps a corpse

(31:41):
could be reanimated. Galvanism had given token ofsuch things. And when they were tired to bed, she
recalls having a waking dream. And, okay, everysingle podcast, every single article mentions
this next bit. I saw the pale student of unhollowedarts kneeling beside the thing he put together. I

(32:06):
saw the hideous phantasm of a man stretched out andthen working on some powerful engine show signs of
life and stir with an uneasy, half vital motion.That's so good. That's so good. Now, here's where I
take a little bit of a sidestep. Fun side story. As astudent at Eaton, Percy Shelly had almost

(32:32):
electrocuted himself in an attempt to reproduceBen Franklin's experiment with a kite. Of course
he did, because who wouldn't? And why did it need togo in that part of the story? Unclear, but I needed
to tell you that because it was in my brain, so itneeds to live in yours. Of course. I'm happy to hold

(32:55):
space. As they're putting together their ghoststories that they're going to tell, John
Pallidori, he writes a story about a vampire andthat ends up selling pretty well during its time.
So we all know Frankenstein, but there was avampire myth that we all neglected to pick up
because it wasn't sitting on the shelf next toFrankenstein. Where it should have been. I mean, I

(33:22):
think that they should go together in some sort ofside-by-side compendium. I don't think it's
probably anywhere near as good, but I do kind ofwant to read what was happening right next to it.
It's good. Can confirm. You've read it? Mm-hmm.Oh, my thesis paper was on Dracula. I have read
everything. Okay. I am behind. So as we'rethinking about this, I think it's important to

(33:48):
recognize that we have a book written by Byroncalled Prometheus Unbound. Because if you look at
the title of Frankenstein, it's the modernPrometheus. Mm-hmm. So she's pulling all of these
threads as she's writing it. And as we're thinkingabout this, I want to kind of sidestep and go into

(34:12):
the psychology of the creature. So the podcastthat I mentioned is out of Stanford. And they're
talking about how Frankenstein's image is set insuch a particular way that at the time, in the ethos
of the lifestyle they're living in, they'reoperating like one of the prevailing thoughts

(34:34):
that I didn't go too deep into was Edmundsburg'stheory of beauty causing revulsion by the doctor.
Okay. Because there's this theory of sublimity.Sublimity? Sublimity? I can't sit. Like how
important landscape is. And when you read throughMary Shelley's Frankenstein, you see the icy

(35:03):
landscapes and how subliminal, that's what I'mtrying to get to, those are and how that impacts the
psyche. But then there's, he's the same guy whotalks about how the subliminal landscape works.
He also has a theory about beauty. And we see this,this idea that his limbs are proportional. He's

(35:30):
got white teeth. He's described as havingluxurious black hair, but his skin barely
contained arteries and organic chaos. Right. Soit is great up into a point. And then that one point
is just not quite right. So the entire thing is sowrong. It's this uncanny valley. And yeah, okay.

(35:57):
When the book describes Elizabeth's eyes, theircloudless blue eyes, but the creature has a doll
yellow eye. And when it opens, it's got this waterynature that's nearly the same color of the doll's
sockets, which they're set inside. So the organicversus the manufactured and how that is so close

(36:22):
yet so far. And all this is happening as they'retalking about what happens when God is excluded.
And is it God that provides the soul or beauty? Orare you hoping that you're just going to put all the
pieces together, touch it with electricity andGod will make it beautiful. The electricity will,

(36:42):
the animating feature will cause it to beseductive, alluring. Yeah. Now, as all of this is
happening, Dr. Frankenstein is pursuing thecreation of this ideal being. He's selecting his
features as beautiful, but he's appalled by thismonstrosity of his creation. Frankenstein, the

(37:08):
creator, not the creation, overreaches in hisscientific endeavor because he's taking the role
of creator which Shelley's contemporariesbelieved is reserved for God and God alone. And by
overstepping these bounds, this is where he'struly f'd up. And it really kind of. He f'd around

(37:32):
and found out. He pretty much, right? And so itreally kind of made me think quite a bit about
androids and the uncanny valley and dolls andtheir effects on us. And it is, you know, a very
similar thing where it's so close yet so it's notright because it's not quite there. We're missing

(37:54):
one piece. And then another part of the book thatseemed to make sense and I kind of want to bring back
as we think about Mary Shelley and how she wrotethis. We have a character when Frankenstein goes,
the creature goes into the mountains and he'sstaying hidden in the shed that's attached to the

(38:16):
house that's ran by the Delaysies, Delances. Ishould have written that down. But the family that
he. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's a woman who woman'ssafety who comes in to the picture and she is the
young man's love interest. She doesn't knowEnglish. She is well educated. She is Arab. And so

(38:42):
they are teaching her their culture, theirlanguage and through extension teaching the
creature. Right. That was actually my favoritepart of the whole book. Mine too. Because you can
kind of like it was a brilliant device to reallyshow how all this would happen. In this case, how
safety education educates the creature. Itmirrors how Mary probably felt her education came

(39:08):
to be because she got her education from hermother, but not through her mother directly. You
know, that makes sense. And so she's getting thisimparted and Mary, Mary's mother is set to believe
that motherhood required rational thought andthey needed to be equal to that of their spouses and

(39:33):
their partners. And that was not a prevailingthought at the time. Absolutely not. Yeah. But
she's like to be a mom. You got to think criticallybecause these little kids are going to try to kill
themselves. You got to be five steps ahead of them.Like all the time. Yeah. Now Mary, future Mary
Shelley, she's smart, but she's never formallyeducated. She's just kind of allowed to

(39:56):
Montessori her way through life. Okay. To thepoint where as smart as she is, as well thought
through as she does things, she requires Byron tohelp her because she doesn't know how to where to
put a comma. She's never been taught. Like shereads, she knows what a comma is, but as to where it

(40:16):
goes, she needs the money. Right. Yeah. She'ssomeone to come in behind her bill. Wow. You know,
literally we put it here. Yeah. And that part,like, so there's a lot of debate, mostly based in
chauvinism, where people think that Byron maybedid more than just say a little bit of editing

(40:38):
because of, well, how would a woman write that? Howwould a woman create an entire genre? And it's
like, well, you know, when you look at your smart,apparently, but looking at like the iterations,
like he changes some of the meaning because she hasthe tone of her writing is very straight. And

(40:59):
matter of fact, she doesn't build the lily. She'svery direct. The whole time I was reading it, like
we are just getting to the point. Right. Hey, yeah.Yeah. I did appreciate that for a lot of the other
stuff that I've read that is just circling aroundthe topic. Yep. Like, yeah. Okay. And whenever we
see evidence of Byron's editing, he tends tocircumvent it a little bit. He tends to make the

(41:22):
writing a bit more ambiguous, which is great. Butwhen you compare and contrast, you can see where
his influence was as a result. Now. Right. Okay. Heas a person, as much as he loved screwing
everything with two legs, he wants maybe even somewith one. I mean, I really feel he probably

(41:48):
wouldn't discriminate. Yeah. He believes intrying to liberate women and marry like Mary,
particularly like, hey, I want you to be able to doeverything you want to do. I want to make sure that
you, because you are equal to me. You're smart. Youknow, so he really champions her there. He also

(42:08):
wants to try to liberate his sisters and he triesto, but he fails at that before his wife dies. He
invites them to live with Mary and him because hewants to make sure she feels liberated to. It's
weird, but I can appreciate it. Yeah. Well, I mean,yeah, no, I can see it because it kind of makes sense

(42:33):
if you've been sort of mentoring this young ladyalong, right? And you kind of have this, for lack of
a better word, you feel responsible to invite herinto your home to continue that would make sense,
especially at that time. And when you think aboutwho Lord Byron is. Yeah. Well, yeah, no, I got him.

(42:54):
So all of this, right? Now, I should have put thisearlier. One of the things that I didn't fully
catch at the time that was mentioned in thepodcast, when the creature is learning from
safety's education, he's learning French, whichis the cultured language at the time, even though

(43:16):
we're reading it in English, which would implythat at some time later he picks up English as well.
And I hadn't fully made that connection. Neitherdid I until just now. Right. Because we read it in
English, but I like I knew he was learning French.Yeah. Oh, how funny. Our unreliable narrator did

(43:38):
not tell us. Amen. When you learn English. Now,another thing that I found fascinating is we think
of the creature opening its eyes. We think of howimportant eyes are in the story. The doll yellow
eye. Mary knew about creatures opening their eyesfor the first time. She'd witnessed babies being

(44:02):
born. She'd experienced that moment. And that wasfascinating to me to think about it through the
eyes of a mom witnessing birth and life coming tobe. And then seeing the scene of Victor being
repulsed by his creature. Yeah. And how that is socounter to that moment. Yeah, because as a mother,

(44:35):
as soon as you see that creation, it's like kind ofthe best thing ever. Yeah. Like you at that point,
they can do no wrong, right? They've just come intoexistence and yeah, they're perfect. They have
that moment of absolute repelling this repellentlike repulsion. Yeah. It's just a very

(44:59):
interesting thing. And yeah, it's fascinatingfrom the eyes of a mom. Now, we also think about
Victor. He's educated at Ingolstadt in STEM. Theyonly do them. They're not touching humanities.
They're not touching philosophy. He's notgetting any of that liberal arts education. He's

(45:20):
learning. Here's the mechanics. Right. Andhere's the math. She spent her time thinking about
the why, the how, the and then what? Yeah. And soshe's coming at it from a very different angle,
having interfaced with the scientists, havingtalked to those and sat in the lectures. Yeah.

(45:49):
That's interesting. And that that really kind oflike made me kind of go, oh, so it just showed how she
viewed a purely STEM education as lacking. You'renot a well-rounded individual without thinking
through to quote, Jurassic Park. You spend allthis time. I can't think about the first thing, but

(46:14):
you never thought about if you should. Yeah. Youyou spent so much time trying to figure out if you
could. You didn't think about whether or not youshould. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, you know,
that kind of comes back here. Now Byron, when hewrote Prometheus Unbound, Prometheus is this

(46:35):
hero. He's a champion of liberty. But withShelley, Prometheus is a failure because
Prometheus here is Victor Frankenstein and hiscreation undermined his entire existence. Yeah.

(46:58):
And so, yeah, I mean, yeah, seeing him as the modernPrometheus, that was that was an intentional set
of wording. That's so good. Well done. Well done onher part. And it's without recognizing she wrote
it sitting next to or the idea germinated sittingnext to the man who wrote Prometheus Unbound. That

(47:20):
word Prometheus, that was an intentional poke.And then I'll end it on the. Something tells me he
loved it though, because all attention is goodattention. Oh, I can't imagine that guy. You could
slap him with a shovel and he'd probably be like, Iliked it. Do it again. This time with feeling.

(47:46):
Other side. There you go. Yeah. Get my good side.But yeah, no, I mean, I, okay, so. I feel like I
basically just rambled about the origins ofFrankenstein because I've enjoyed it. And so it's
just like, and then there's this and then there'sthat and here's this rabbit hole. But I mean, like

(48:12):
there was there was a quote that came up that Iwanted to end on and it was if Victor Frankenstein
had not been overcome by his initial disgust. If hehad responded to his creature with love and
understanding, it might have become aninstrument of good rather than evil. Could easily
have been all the creature wanted was a companion.Like he wanted something to love. Yeah, that was my

(48:39):
main take from the entire book was like, I thinkthat's why I enjoyed the part where he was with the
family in the shed or the walls or in the shed. Yeah.Yeah. However, it's described for some reason
when I read it, I knew it was like this spaceattached to the house, but I kept thinking he was
inside the wall. I was like, how did you fit inthere? Like I knew I read it wrong, but that was the

(49:01):
way my visuals for it worked. You didn't have a shedattached to the house so you made it work in your
brain and it was it was even more terrifying. Yes.Like did you just pull the outer wall up and like lay
in there? Okay. Creepy place this for you. Okay,but that is the story of the origins of

(49:23):
Frankenstein as many rapid trails as that wasloosely put into kind of a narrative format. It was
me just kind of word dumping on where my brainwanted to go. Live your truth, man. I'm here for
word dumping on where your brain wants to go. Yeah.So if you're, if you've enjoyed this, Mary Robb,

(49:48):
you're wondering if Angie's going to tell a morecohesive story. Me too. But send this to your 384 00:49:55,100 --> favorite would be mad scientist. And on that note, goodbye. Bye. You