November 7, 2025 • 50 mins
Apparently, Angie can’t stop thinking about the fall of the Berlin Wall, and today tackles the specific incidents that directly led to its collapse. So if you want to hear how Russian middle managers muff the punt and how that triggers some real drama...
Theresa shifts the focus of history in a dramatic way when she shares the story of Apache warrior, healer, and holy woman, Lozen. She shares her mystical powers of tracking her enemy, her missions with her brother Victorio, and how she joined Geronimo’s forces.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hi, and welcome to the Unhand History Podcast, apodcast where two friends are great friends and
they do this thing where they troll each othernonstop and they tell each other history stories
they've only recently learned or uncovered newfacts about and then verbally assault their
(00:29):
friend with that story. I'm host one, I'm Teresaand that I'm host two. I'm never going to figure it
out. I'm Angie and I have something to say. First ofall, if you're not trolling your best friend, are
they even your best friend? No, they're not atleast not the way I friend. Like if I'm nice to you, I
either don't know you don't like you. Oh, dude.Yeah, same. Same. If I'm not trying to bug the crap
(00:55):
out of you, we're not friends. No. I am veryuncomfortable with the fact that you just said
stories we've either just learned or things aboutstories we've just uncovered because that is what
my story is about today. So, what are you talkingabout today? I'm going to be telling the same story
(01:15):
you tell, but I'm going to do different detailsbecause Ian's already shared it with me. I know he
hasn't. I don't need any idea. Good try though. Itried to ask him the other week if he wouldn't mind
texting you and finding something out and he waslike, no, I'm not getting in the middle of that. I
was like, well, you're lame. Like, you'll do it forher, but you won't help me and he's like, yeah,
pretty much. Okay, cool. Yeah, if she's notworried about it, it's not a threat. Evidently.
(01:42):
Yeah. Okay. Rude. I guess I'll just start then.Yeah, I mean, would you please? Sorry. I didn't
write down the author of my article's name. I amgoing to tell you part two of the opening of the
(02:02):
Berlin Wall. Oh, so this day last year, I told youabout how the Berlin Wall was built, you know, all
of that. I'm going to give you a recap in just aminute, but I'm going to tell you about part two.
Okay, so my source is a NPR article called The ManWho Disobeyed His Boss and Opened the Berlin Wall.
(02:23):
This is from November 16th of 2024 by Soria Nelson.And then my other is the fall of the Berlin Wall, an
independent article written by Toti Patterson,November 9th of 2014. So with that said, I'm just
(02:44):
going to give you a little recap. When World War IIended in 1945, Germany was carved up into four
occupation zones, right? Each one's overseen byone of the Allied powers. You have the US, Britain,
France, and the Soviet Union, right? Now, Berlin,though, sits deep inside the Soviet controlled
territory, and it itself is also divided into foursections. And initially, people could move
(03:10):
between East and West Berlin with relatives, likeyou could live in one side and work in the other, and
you really didn't have much of an issue, right? Butby 1948, tensions are rising, things are
sharpening, and the Soviets, angered by theWest's economic reforms, they block all roads and
(03:31):
railways into West Berlin in response. The Allieslaunched the Berlin Airlift, where they fly in
food, fuel, and hope, and this is like a symbolicstand against tyranny, and this totally worked.
But also deepens the divide. In response, theAllies launched the Berlin Airlift, where
they're flying in food, fuel, and hope. It's thissuper symbolic stand against tyranny, and it
(03:55):
works. But the other side to that is it also deepensthe divide. By 1949, the two Germanies have
formed, you have West Germany, that's backed bythe Allies, and East Germany, which is under
Soviet control. In 1961, the East Germanauthorities, wow, that's a hard word for me to say,
(04:16):
East German authorities build what they call theanti-fascist protection barrier. We know it as
the Berlin Wall. Now, officially, it's meant tokeep fascists out. In truth, it's built to keep
people in. Now, behind the wall, I described thisin last year's episode, but I'll give you a recap.
(04:40):
Life continues, and sometimes competition takessurprising forms. You have East and West
Berliners, and they begin what is called theAnimal Arms Race. Do you remember this? The
Zoological... Oh yeah, yeah, no, I was alreadytaking notes to attach this to the David Bowie,
Berlin Zoo, competing zoo episode. So we havecompeting zoos with competing animals that are
(05:01):
submitted by their out-each allies from acrossthe world. And then, of course, because you can't
have a competing zoo on a Berlin Wall withoutespionage, we have espionage. In 1954, the CIA and
MI6 joined forces for what would be one of theboldest operations yet called Operation Gold,
where beneath the streets of Berlin, they build a1476 foot-long tunnel to tap Soviet phone lines.
(05:28):
And for nearly a year, they gather pricelessintelligence. Then the Soviets, quote, unquote,
discover the tunnel, but not by chance. They'dknown about it all along, thanks to a British
double agent by the name of George Blake. Thisdoesn't really embarrass the West. If anything,
the world marvels at the audacity of the plans. Andit's kind of like this reminder that even
(05:51):
underground, the Cold War is basically a contestof wit and nerve. And then comes the music. In the
late 1970s, David Bowie had lived in West Berlinsharing a small apartment with Iggy Pop, and it was
here that he recorded the song Heroes, and then thealbum, which was very haunted by the Cold War
(06:13):
isolation. Right. The title track Heroes talksabout being heroes just for one day while they
dream of freedom, blah, blah, blah, right? Weremember all that. I mean, it was brilliant. I
loved when you covered that. That was actuallystill probably one of my favorite stories to tell
you. A decade later, in 87, Bowie returns to Berlinfor a concert that staged right near the right
(06:35):
stage, which is just yards from the wall itself.For all of those playing at home that didn't listen
to this episode, his voice can the concert carryacross from West Berlin into East Berlin, and you
have East Berliners like gathering at the wall tolisten to him sing his songs. They're divided by
concrete, but totally united by the sound, and theEast German police panic. They attack young
(06:58):
listeners with water cannons and arrests and allsorts of things. But it's too late, right? The
music has done its work and the moment exposes thecruelty and division, but it also changes how
people, especially young East Berliners, seetheir government. A week later, Ronald Reagan
stands at the Bannonburg Gate and demands Mr.Gorbachev tear the wall down. Two years after
(07:24):
that, the wall falls. In 2016, when David Bowiedies, Jeremy's foreign ministry writes,
goodbye, David Bowie, you are now among heroes.Thank you for helping bring down the wall. Okay. So
after I told you that story, I was reminded that Ihad some very sweet friends that were in Berlin
(07:44):
when the wall fell. One was our former pastor. Hewas a young pastor at the time, a young minister at
the time, doing his ministry. And one was his youngwife, who they hadn't, she was a teenager. But she
is a West Berliner. So I called her and I was like,hey, would you mind sharing with me like your
(08:06):
firsthand account of what it was like for Berlinand for your family when the Berlin wall came down?
Because to me, I think we miss so much of history bynot hearing every day story. Right? Like we hear
these big grand stories, like all these great, youknow, women of World War II, espionage and all
(08:27):
their stories, but we don't hear what it was likefor just mom and pop. So it's like, hey, what, you
know, what was your life for you? And she left me areally great voicemail detailing her
experience. Basically, in her case, she believesthat her family didn't suffer the same sort of
separation that many other families of the timedid that were torn apart by the wall. Rather, her
(08:52):
grandmother had some foresight and she got as manyof her children to the West as possible. Like she
takes her three, she had like six or seven kids, butthe older ones were older and like married. So she
takes the children that she can with her to theWest. Wow. In like the 50s. Her, my friend, her name
(09:14):
is Allie, her mom was born just after World War IIand her father just before the war had ended, like a
couple of months before. So by the time the wall isestablished, her family is already firmly
established in the West. Okay. So like they're notseparated by this whole fight to get back to my
(09:34):
grandmother sort of thing. Grandmothers arealready there. There are some family members
still residing in the East though. One of heruncles, who she absolutely adores, had actually
been raised in the West but fell in love with a girlfrom the East. So he moved there, which she thought
was totally wild. Like why would you leave freedomfor the Iron Curtain? Because love. Right.
(09:58):
Because love. Because love. Right. Now she saysshe was still able to visit him often, like
throughout the summer, she could go and stay withhim for the duration of the summer. So she has like
these really, um, ideal like memories of herchildhood being there. And visiting was allowed
(10:19):
for family members under the rightcircumstances. Like for example, that favorite
uncle was allowed to come visit her family when hergrandmother turned like 85, because by then he was
old enough to be retired. So he wasn't consideredlike a flight risk, but his wife couldn't leave. So
(10:40):
he would be forced to come back. Right. So there'scircumstances that keep you wanting to come home,
but giving the opportunity for her to still go intoEast willing to visit him. Now she makes a joke to
him, August of 1989. She says, the next time youvisit, the next time we get to visit, you're going
(11:03):
to come see me, having no idea that we're justmonths away. Right. She's 16. What is like, she's
not paying attention to the news. Right. Yeah. No,she's just some 16 year old punk and just talking to
her uncle. Right. Like, right. And so she has noclue that she is like really speaking to sort of
into existence. Now, of course, according to her,she is not paying attention to the news. She is
(11:27):
aware of some things that are going on in the late80s, though. She will admit to having not known the
wall came down for like a couple of days, becauseagain, we're 16. We're not paying attention to the
news, but I definitely know something's going on.I'm just not sure what. Also, it's 1989. We don't
have social media. So what do we know? Now she toldme some really interesting things at this point
(11:49):
that I did not formally know. One is that obviouslyall along the border, there are guard stations.
Right. They're obviously manned. The other thingthat she points out is that Gorbachev knew keeping
the wall up and maintained is incrediblyexpensive. East Germany has no money to
(12:13):
contribute to this. And so Gorbachev basicallyreally does nothing after Reagan tells them to
tear down the wall. Like, he doesn't put out anyofficial orders or anything like that of like what
to do. So the wall is just kind of there and they'rekind of just doing what they've always been doing.
(12:33):
But there's a lot of maybe tension is the right wordin the air for some change, especially after the
David Bowie concert. Right. Now, becauseGorbachev doesn't give out any particular
orders, there is a lot of confusion and a lack ofreal orders for any of the guards along the wall to
(12:55):
follow, which leads this moment I didn'tpreviously know about. On the night of November
9th, 1989, a stasi guard by the name of LieutenantColonel Harold Yeager opens the gates to his
section of the wall. His section is called theBromhüllerstrasse crossing point, which
(13:16):
basically separates the Communist East Berlinneighborhood of Prenzelauer Berg from the free
West Berlin area of wedding. And I can't recall if Ididn't make this clear in any of my previous
episodes about this, which is weird that I haveprevious episodes, but free West Berlin is
(13:37):
literally walled off like an island in EastGermany. So the whole area is surrounded by this
wall, right? Yeah, that's kind of what I've beenled to imagine. So, right. So you can visualize how
these neighborhoods, how you could have this freeWestern neighborhood lined up right against this
Communist blockade, right? Okay. So I might havementioned it actually in episode 46, you brought
(14:04):
up by Potato King about the family that flies theirhot air balloon. Yeah, the Great Balloon Escape.
Yeah, I couldn't remember if I did or not, but Imight have. Anyway, so the night of November 9th,
1989, Yeager is in command of his station, but hehas no real orders. Like the other problem is there
(14:24):
is no lack of people wanting to get across. In fact,by 1130 that night, he's looking at over 20,000
East Berliners who are chanting Open the Gate.Now, there's a ton of confusion. He lacks clear
orders. They basically don't do what you have todo, but like don't really say what they mean. He's
(14:49):
looking around and he's got this ever-growingconcern of a stampede or a bloodbath or both. So he
makes the audible to open his gate. Now, what weneed to know about Yeager is that he is a career
border guard. Like he is fully behind thisoperation and fully believes in it, just like his
(15:13):
father was, well, like actually one of the firstborder guards in the East. So this is like a big deal
for him. In fact, he helped build the wall in 1961.So like this plan to literally trigger the
reunification of Germany is not what he'sthinking of. Right. But he is, this is what you do.
You stand guard. Right. And so he's like, oh my God,but he opens the gates anyway. And as things are
(15:42):
progressing, further down the wall, other guardsare seeing what happens. He does not see himself a
hero that night. In fact, he tells the independentquote, after I gave the order, I and the other
guards couldn't believe what we were seeing. Wewere shell shocked. We felt the world was
collapsing around us. He goes on to say, we stoodthere and watched our citizens leaving en masse.
(16:07):
These were our people. We cried. We felt betrayedby our peers. It was a terrible, the terrible
realization that not only did the system and ourleaders had failed, we had to. He goes on. Wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, you're saying that the wall fell
basically on accident and simultaneouslymultiple points of failure. Pretty much. Like
(16:30):
they saw him open his gate and I'll get to just stickwith me for a second because I'll get to his, what he
says happens in just a moment. He basically goes onto say that about half hour later, this vast group
of East Berliners, they're clapping and cheeringand crying these tears of joy as they pass through
the gates. And then he realizes what he's done. Andlike what's happened. And he says, quote, the
(16:57):
crowds won us over with their euphoria. Werealized that they were overjoyed and our tears of
frustration turned to those of joy. At that point,one of the guards came up to me and said, Harold, I
guess this was it with East Germany. And itsuddenly dawned on me that it was now. This is what
(17:19):
he says happened. So what I just told you is like thebrief overview of what the world saw. Jaeger, the
guard says earlier, he is watching the news or somesort of news brief in the canteen. When the East
Berlin, I'm going to jack this word up. I'm going totry so hard. Polit Borough member says this is like
(17:43):
a like the political representative of the EastBerlin government. Günther Schwabowski gives a
murky and garbled statement to the East Germansthat they can now travel west, providing they have
the current documents from the authorities. Butthen, all of a sudden, Schwabowski says they can do
(18:05):
so, quote, immediately and without delay. Now,what we need to know about him is he is totally
buckling under pressure. Just five days before,there's a huge anti-communist demonstration in
Berlin, as well as an exodus of East Germans acrossthe now open iron curtain into Hungary's borders
with Austria. So he is like, crap, the only waythings are going to work out for me in my like,
(18:32):
administration or regime is if I lift the travelban. This probably doesn't work out the way he
plans. So Jaeger sees this news brief that Imentioned, then goes to his post to find all these
curious East Berliners who are like, Hey, can welike cross the border? What's going on? Right? But
(18:55):
he doesn't really, he doesn't know. He just saw thesame news brief and he was like, uh, let me call my
boss. So mind you, as the hours progress, thenumber of East Berliners is also growing. And so is
the agitation. You can imagine. Oh, this makessense. Yeah. Right. So he calls his boss, the Stasi
(19:19):
Colonel Rudy Ziegenhorn, who is like, don't bug mewith this. They got to have the right documents and
pretty much hangs up on them. And our guys like,cool. Okay. By 8pm, West German news, so the West
German news now already has this statement fromthe East and they're interpreting the statement
(19:41):
saying that East Germany has opened its borders tothe West. So the independence says, quote, by 9pm,
the crowd had become so big that Mr. Jaeger wasbeginning to panic. We have to do something. He
shouted down the phone. He was then ordered todiffuse the situation by letting the noisiest
East Germans leave the crossing point for WestBerlin. The aim was to make it impossible for them
(20:08):
to return by rendering their passports invalidwith a special stamp. I realized then that I was
doing something which was illegal, even in EastGermany, he said, the tactics backfired. The
crowd seeing that the noisy were allowed in theWest started to get noisier. I mean, shocking. The
(20:32):
other guards along the wall, they know they'rearmed, but they're seeing their command like lose
control big time and big Jaeger to take some sort ofaction because they're fearing also the blood
bath should they try to do anything. And thisbasically leaves Jaeger with one option. In 1130,
(20:55):
that night, he orders to open the barrier. Theindependence said, quote, the human tide flowed
West until dawn. That's a lot of hours of peoplejust walking across the border. Yeah, no, that
honestly feels like a lot. It feels like 300 whenhe's talking about how his army is going to march
(21:18):
for miles and miles. Yeah, that's exactly, Ididn't see him in that costume, but yeah, that's
exactly what I was thinking. He calls his sisterwhen he shifts over and he tells her what he did. Her
response, you did well. So that's how the BerlinWall fell on November 9th. Holy cow. I know.
(21:42):
Thanks, David Bowie. Wow. Okay. Well, that'sgoing to be a hard pivot from where I'm going.
You're welcome. I just loved that there was not onesingle action that like, to me, it's so
fascinating to see the hair trigger moments thatcause these major historical events. And this was
(22:04):
just that my boss couldn't tell me what to do. Yeah,my boss was just overwhelmed watching his show and
just didn't want to deal with having to wait for arerun. Yeah, which is what it feels like. I can't
pause. I can't pause what's going on here. Can youjust wait till my episode's over and then I'll
figure it out? Yeah. So the Berlin Wall failedbasically because middle management can't
(22:27):
middle manage. Pretty much, but likesimultaneously, I personally, and this is just my
personal opinion, Gorbachev probably wanted itto. And so he didn't put out any specific orders
near the rest of his administration. So really,what's anybody going to do? I mean, I don't see that
you're wrong. I feel like it's the cheapest way toget the ball down because either way, you're going
(22:53):
to have to pay if you did intend to take the walldown. You're going to have to pay to remove a bit.
But if you let the citizens do it, it's done. Youknow, did you ever hear the story? I think it was
somewhere in, I want to say Eastern Europe, wherethis municipal government needed to build a dam.
They had spent years designing it, allocatingfunds for it. And then as they went to go break
(23:20):
ground, they realized a family of beavers had gonein, built the dam better than they could have and
did it for free. No. But this is kind of what thatfeels like. I mean, yeah, pretty much because
we've seen the photos, we watched them take therocks, like the concrete bricks right out of the
wall. Yeah. And they became mementos. Right. Theother thing that I didn't mention earlier that she
(23:45):
said that really sparked my imagination is shesaid on her side of the wall, like that her home, my
friend Allie, her home was just like a few blocksfrom the wall, I guess. And her side was all
graffiti. The other side of the wall in the samespot still had the feet and feet and feet of sand for
the death zone. Wow. And that's such a wild thing tolike, even comprehend, I guess, today in my mind,
(24:16):
right? But like, that was just life. She's like,yeah, our side was graffiti. Their side was like
spotless because nobody's allowed to get near it.Right. Like, whoa, that's nuts. Yeah, good luck
with your pivot. Yeah. Mine's gonna be a wildpivot. I decided to honor the indigenous history.
(24:40):
And so I am going to tell you the story of LosAngeles. Okay. That means you don't understand.
Off the top of my head, I'm here for it. I don't thinkI do. My sources, Reviewed Work, Women of the
Apache Nation, Voices of Truth by H. HenriettaStockle, Reviewed by June Nella Hayes, American
(25:02):
Indian Quarterly, Volume 18, Number 4, Autumn of1994, Women and the American Story, Life Story,
Lozen, circa 1840 to 1889, History.com, TheApache Woman Warrior Who Helped Lead Resistance
to European Invaders by Tony Takaran AikiWilliams. Lozen, she's born in 1840 to the Chahani
(25:31):
Apache Band near Ojo-Keliente in New Mexico.Okay, that's already fun. I mean, it means hot eye,
which, you know, for those of you like me who useGoogle Translate to get through anything with
Spanish other than ordering your tacos, you know.Speak menu. Yeah, I speak menu. I can order a beer.
(25:53):
Thank you so much. At the time, there's at leastseven Apache bands. There's numerous clans that
are spread throughout the vast area, and this isknown as Apacharia, and that's now in northern
Mexico, eastern Arizona, and then southwesternNew Mexico. So really, the great American
Southwest. Okay. Now, her band is also known as theRed Paint People, and they're recognized by red
(26:22):
bands of clay worn across their faces duringceremony. Now, you can picture them. It has been in
pop culture. We have seen them in movies. Thisgroup is led by her father. They're known for
raiding. And Apache bands, they tend to war withone another, and they tend to always be on the move.
So a very nomadic lifestyle. Oh my gosh. So you'retelling the story of the American Mongolians?
(26:49):
Yeah, basically. Now, Joey Padilla, he's amedicine man and a museum curator at the Mesquero
Apache Reservation in New Mexico. He goes on to saythat they never stayed in one place. So nomadic,
nomadic, nomadic. And then we get our maincharacter here, Lozen. Lozen, her name means
(27:13):
dexterous horse thief. Oh, love that for her. Yep.And this really reflects the skill that she
acquired that enabled her to sneak behind enemylines undetected, round up horses and steal them
away. Now, her stealth and courage, these aregoing to become the qualities that she's known by,
(27:35):
and she's going to basically be in constantconflict. Okay. So, horses. Yeah. When she's
seven years old, she learns how to ride horses. Andit's like how to walk and then I learned how to ride.
Basically. Now, her parents realize that she'sextremely talented as a horseback rider. And even
(27:58):
though she's a child, she's one of the best ridersin the band. Okay. Like this. Now, the Apache
apparently they've got some fairly strict genderroles. The men are warriors and the women gathered
prepared food and performed household tasks.When enemies attacked, it appears that women were
responsible for collecting the most importantitems of the house, the household and then running
(28:20):
to safety. Because of this, Apache women are ingreat physical shape. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah.
Because we are and that's why we're always on themove. Yep. Now, Apache girls, they tend to start
intense physical training around age eight. Sothis feels very Sparta, a gogi. Mm-hmm. Every
(28:42):
morning, they woke before sunrise and ran to thetop of a nearby mountain. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, no,
thank you. Now, they are a matriarchal culturewith a deity called the white painted woman at the
center of the creation story. And lozenunderstood from a very young age that women play a
(29:03):
very important role. As you. So all of this isspinning up, right? Mm-hmm. When she's a child,
there's an ambush of her people by Mexicans and theMexican men, they lured the Apache band with
promises of gifts and then they start to shoot atthem. Lozen and her brother, Victoria, escaped,
(29:23):
but many Apache men, women and children died. Andlozen never forgets this. Yeah, I wouldn't
either. Now, she grows up as a typical Apache girl.She's learning how to prepare food, sewing. She's
completing basically all the tasks that you wouldneed to learn to be a successful wife and mom. Now,
(29:45):
her path changes during her coming of ageceremony. And this ceremony marked a girl's first
period and celebrated her entrance intowomanhood. Okay, yeah, this makes sense. It's
during this time she receives a spiritual callingduring the ceremony and that gave her, this is
crazy, a power to sense location of their enemies.Oh, okay, okay. You know who I'm talking about now.
(30:12):
I think so, yeah. I don't think I know much, but it'sringing bells. This indicated that she's
basically on the wrong path, wife and mom is nother, she needs to become a warrior. Get it, get it,
mom, get it. So her brother, Victoria, he becomesthe new leader of the band and lozen joins the men on
(30:32):
raids and she's quickly gaining respect from allof the other male warriors. She eventually
becomes her brother's trusted partner and she'sgot some incredible talent as a hunter and
horseback rider. And then this ability that shehas to locate enemies made her a highly respected
warrior. Yeah. And she never marries or has kids.Oh, wow. Now, I don't know if I put it in my notes, but
(30:58):
one of the things they said that she would do is shewould hold her arms up and, oh, you know, I have it in
the next line. I'm going to keep it on check. 1848.Okay, carry on. New Mexico became a territory in
the U.S. under the Treaty of Hildago. And then wehave the California Gold Rush that's kicking off
and this is bringing tons of miners through apatria. And when lozen's 12, she goes through
(31:25):
these puberty rides, so she's still a wee one,right? And she, basically, were zooming back and
kind of going more into those special power bits.She's 12. She goes alone into the mountains and
according to oral history, she gains this abilityto track down her enemies. Now, Harlan Geronimo,
the great grandson of Geronimo that you know of, hesaid that lozen would lift her hands and walk in a
(31:48):
circle until the veins in her arms turn dark blue,indicating the direction from which her enemies
would approach. How the heck do you decide you knowthat that's what it's doing? Look, I don't know. I
wasn't there to A-B test this. Okay. I'm not worthit though. Let's go. I mean, hot diggity dam. Could
(32:08):
you imagine some pre-team coming down going, myarm is blue. We're going that way. I was playing
high like that. I was going high like that. I threwmy arms up and that arm's blue, so Victoria was that
way. And I'm never wrong. I mean, that's kind of howit sounds, right? Yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
(32:28):
So, mind you, 12, she began fighting Mexicansoldiers, scalping hunters, and the eternal
enemies of her band. Now, 1849, the Americansarrive and they start laying claim to her homeland
and she battles with them as well. In the book,Warrior Woman, the story of lozen, Apache
(32:52):
warrior, and shaman, Peter Alsher really goesthrough and really defines this. Her brother,
Victoria, he says that lozen is my right hand. Sheis as strong as a man, braver than most, and cunning
in strategy. She is the shield to her people. Oh, Ilove you, Victoria. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then
(33:18):
Padilla, the curator of the museum, he said thatshe was a warrior woman in her time. And as the
Apaches always had women with them, and she stoodright behind the man with a knife or gun. And if a man
went down, you had to deal with the woman too. Womenalso hid children from the enemies. Yes. So, you
(33:39):
just get this very strong, cohesive communitythat knows how to lock arms and go to war. After the
Mexican-American war ends in 19- or in 1848, thelands in Southwest become a part of the United
States and then we get more white people coming inand settling. And the government wants to grant
(34:00):
even more land to white citizens. Shocking. Andthis is when the U.S. forces the Apache groups into
reservations. They hate that. Yeah, this isn'texactly what they want to do. Now, we have in 1861
the Chacoan. We have a chief who's falsely accusedof kidnapping a rancher's son. I don't want to
(34:29):
butcher it much more than I just did. Okay. And thissparks a series of conflicts that embroils the
U.S. and various Apache nations and conflicts fora measly 24 years. Just a small couple of decades.
Yep. 1862, the chief, and another chief, they go tobattle at the Apache Pass. They bring 200 warriors
(34:54):
with them, but they get pushed into retreat andthen scattered by howitzer cannons because we've
got more firepower. This checks. Now, Lozen,she's at the Apache Pass and she's welcomed into
the council as a warrior and she fought for yearsnext to her brother, Victoria, as they struggle
for their homeland. And then she's likelyinvolved at horse rate in a horse rate at Fort
(35:20):
Craig. And this is where Apaches are armed withbows and arrows and they are taking horses from the
soldiers. 1869, she joined Victoria and otherApache leaders for a meeting to establish a
reservation at Oho Calliente, but insteadthey're moved to harsher conditions on the San
Carlos Reservation in Arizona. So bait andswitch. Now, 1870, the Warm Spring Apaches, they
(35:48):
agreed to move to Oho Calliente. However, thegovernment reneged, they go back on their
agreement and they force all of the Apaches.Surprise, surprise. I bet you didn't see that
coming. They force all Apache to go to San CarlosReservation in 75. And then San Carlos is pretty
(36:13):
far away from Oho Calliente and the conditionsgarbage, absolutely deplorable. The Apache
members, they're struggling with hunger anddisease and the government forced members from
various Apache groups to live together on thereservation. I see this going so well. Yeah, I
mean, look, we've done it before and it's failedthat time. So maybe it'll work this time. If at
(36:38):
first you don't succeed. Try, try again. Now,Lowe's and Victoria and some others from their
band, they flee. They're like San Carlos, deuceswere out of here. They eventually decide that
they're going to, it's war over return. Fair. Ifeel is a cooler phrase than death before
(36:58):
dishonor. Yeah, okay. Now they end up disbandingto evade capture and Lozen later escaped or Lola.
Lozen later escorted a group of women and childrento Mexico. They ended up crossing the raging Rio
Grande and there's a dude named James. Kawekala.He's a child at the time. He remembered writing
(37:26):
behind his grandmother as this band fled Americanforces. Kawekala, he says that he saw a
magnificent woman on a beautiful horse holding arifle over her head. And after the group reached
Mexico, they were cold, wet, but alive. And thenLozen rides back across the Rio Grande and she
returns right back to the fight. I love her. I mean,she can't stop won't stop. Now, many who escape are
(37:55):
caught or killed by the US military and then we getthose like the group that Lozen led. They make it to
Mexico. Victoria, he decides to lead his groupback to Oho Calliente and he tries to pressure the
government to honor their initial agreement tolet them live there. And when they returned to the
Oho Calliente reservation, they find themilitary had just shut it down. Just, you know,
(38:16):
bye, you don't live there no more. Bye, yes, thischecks. We already forwarded your mail. So you
pass will deliver. Yeah, you know, if it fits, itships. There we go. That's right. It ships. So back
at San Carlos, the government arrested theleaders of that band, including Geronimo. Now the
(38:41):
great, great grandson. The original Geronimo,the Geronimo that you would know from the Indian
side. Oh, okay. I misplaced my timeframe. And thenI was thinking that she was in the same timeframe as
the grandson. No, no, no, she is, she is with thehistoric Geronimo. Gotcha. Okay, that's
awesome. Okay, so they go when the warm springApache has heard the rumors that there were plans
(39:05):
to also arrest Victoria, they flee to themountains. They're like deuces and they get, they
attack a small group of American soldiers and thenthis starts a war between their band and the US
military. Shocking. Right. I mean, it'sbasically just guns and blazing over here. Now,
Lozen's group, they're on the lam. And whenthey're under attack, women and children that are
(39:30):
traveled small groups are separate from thewarriors because they're trying to downplay
casualties. During one attack, a group of womenand children had to cross the river to escape
American soldiers. The water's rising and thismakes the crossing it safely very difficult.
Lozen had left the group of warriors to help themget past, to just get past the river. Now, 1880, she
(39:57):
goes on to continue being her badass self becausethe warm spring Apache, they're on their way to
Mexico through Texas. And one of the women in theirgroup is pregnant. She starts going into labor.
The American soldiers are like right on theirheels. So Lozen left the group to help the woman
give birth. Okay. And they're separated from thegroup and that alone is dangerous. And a birthing
(40:21):
woman is not typically quiet. Yeah. Now. I'm goingto need you to shh. Yeah. Royal women don't cry out
in pain. We know this, honey. We talked about this.Yeah. Now Lozen, she had to leave her horse behind
to avoid being noticed by the military. Nowthere's two women and a new baby and new mom isn't
(40:48):
necessarily in any move to like walk. Like this isnot what she, her body's designed for at the
moment. No. Neither is horse riding if we're beinghonest. Look, you got to do what you got to do, you
know, like your vulva may be the size of agrapefruit, but there are things that have to
occur at this point. I'm just thinking of ourlioness of Brittany who's like, oh, you're in my
(41:10):
house. I just gave birth. Do you go? Yeah,basically. Yeah. Now Lozen also realizes that
they have no food or water. Oh, so to say they're inthe hurt locker is a bit of an understatement. Just
a bit. Now. Yeah. She notices that there's aMexican camp and she's like, you know what? I'm
(41:33):
just going to steal one of their horses. So shewaits until the minute or asleep. She uses her
super good skill and her dexterity at stealinghorses and skirts across the river, takes the
horse, evades bullets from the guard and makes itsafely back to women and her child and the three of
them flee together. Okay. Now she lozen tries toreunite with the main group and then she
(41:57):
discovered that the American soldiers areguarding every water source on the route. Which
makes sense. Super smart. You know, you're in thedesert. You know they're going to come to water. Do
what you got to do. Yeah. Okay. I hate that. Nowshe's able to find her way back, taking this very
long and dangerous route, but this takes weeks.And it's this long herring event that exemplifies
(42:22):
how Lozen blurred these gender lines becauseshe's the skilled warrior who's able to steal a
horse and evade capture. But she's also trained infamily care. So she is helping deliver a baby and
then take care of it postpartum. I was going to askthat when you said she left the group to take care
for the baby because so I'm assuming that while sheis a warrior and while she is clearly the commander
(42:47):
in the forces, right? Like her first duty as femaleis to protect the females and the children. Right.
And like there was, there's a documentary I sawabout her years ago. I didn't put it in here because
I couldn't remember where it was, but it wassomething along the lines of she realized as a
healer, as a midwife, that bringing life into theworld is more sacred than taking life out. Yeah, I
(43:15):
would agree. And so she made that choice to leavethe warriors when they needed her the most because
there was a duty that was greater than that. Yeah.Okay. I like this. Now, she ends up getting back to
the main group at the Mescalera Reservation andthat's when she learned that Mexican troops had
(43:39):
ambushed the Apaches. Around 80 members of herband were killed, including her brother,
Victoria. So she's the leader now? No. But she lefther brother knowing she had this special skill
that would allow her to detect her enemy. Andbecause she wasn't there, because she was
(43:59):
ushering in life, he died. Oh, yeah. Okay. So she'sdevastated. Yeah, there. And she ends up leaving
mom and new baby in Mescalero and she goes to lookfor other members of her band and eventually she
rejoined the survivors of that band at the SierraMadre Mountains. Okay. And then it's now 1880
(44:26):
after her brother's death, she joins the newchief, Nana, and they eventually joined
Geronimo's forces and rode with him to the end. Youknow what I'm thinking? This is so dumb. I'm
thinking this the entire time. She did all of thiswithout Google Maps telling her where to go. I
(44:46):
mean, look, you're not wrong. I'm like, I can makeit from Antica home. I can make it from San Jose
home. That's it. Right? I get confused with some ofthe neighborhoods in my own town where I was
raised. But you know what? That's the thing.There's other things we can do because of the
(45:11):
technology we got and were used to that they couldnever, right? Yeah, I guess that's true. Our
ancestors rode horses and traveled by night starsso we could have Google Maps. Yeah, they also took
so much longer at getting everything done. Theseare things. There's also that. So, okay. The
(45:32):
Apaches that remained at San Carlos, they fleeunder the leadership of Geronimo in 1885. Lozen,
she buddies up with Geronimo and uses her power toevade capture by the Americans and Mexican
soldiers because now it's two nations againstthis Indian nation. Now we get Lozen and Dateste,
(45:54):
she's another female warrior. They enter intopeace negotiations with the Americans. However,
as a surprise to nobody, the Americans aren'ttaking the negotiations seriously. And they're
like, you know what? We're just going to take youall and relocate you to Florida because same,
same. That checks. Yeah, cool. We've been livingin the American South for, I don't know, the
(46:18):
entirety of our existence. But Florida soundsgreat. Yeah. Alligators make a lot of sense to what
we're used to dealing with. Yeah, let's go. NowLozen and the other leaders decided to surrender
and join the force relocation of Florida. Theykind of are just resolute to the state. It's in
Florida that she contracts tuberculosis. Okay,put that on your bingo card. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
(46:46):
basically it was either that or syphilis, butGeronimo, like Lozen, surrenders to the U.S.
government and they're, they imprisoned Lozen ather Mount Vernon barracks in Alabama. So from
Florida and then they ship her back up to Alabama.And she dies there June 17th, 1889 and is buried in
(47:09):
an unmarked grave. Now, in an interview, an oldApache, Charlie Smith described her as, to us, she
was a holy woman and she was regarded and treated assuch. White painted woman herself was not more
respected. I was wondering when you said that theyoung person saw her crossing the river with her
(47:34):
arms up in the rifle of like, she's their whitepainted woman. Yeah, but that is the story of the
Apache woman warrior Lozen. I love her. I'm sad itwas tuberculosis. None of us make it out alive,
Angie. I know. I just wanted a blazing glory forher. I feel like that's what she probably would
(47:59):
have been aiming for. I mean, to be fair, I think themoment she paused to usher life into the world
rather than ushering life out. Yeah, I think, youknow, she just wanted the best for her family and
yeah, at the end of the day. Yeah. I would agree withyou on that. Wow, that was a wildly different
(48:24):
story. I feel like that's what you can expect fromme, though, no matter what you like. Apparently
the Berlin Wall is your room. It is. And it's theweirdest of my realms because it's the least
expected one, I think. Yeah, it is. But I think it'sright. I think, though, it's fascinating to me
(48:48):
because it happened in our lifetime. Like, we weretoo young to remember it, right? But like, we can
watch the news about it. Like, I watched a portionof the YouTube from the East German official when
he muffed the plot and told everybody they could goWest. It was in German, so I didn't understand any
of it. But like, we have access to that sort offootage, I guess. Yeah, it is definitely the
(49:13):
weirdest of my realms. I'm going to go ask Ian andhe's going to tell you something very different,
though, on what your realm is. Yeah, I'm nowcurious to hear what he would think. If you've got
your own Roman Empire and you want to know if we talkabout it, right in. It's unhinged.historypod at
(49:36):
gmail.com. Give us something to talk about. If youreally want to do something cool, rate, review,
subscribe, do those things. They really help usout. They allow other humans just like you to find
their tribe. And on that note, share this with yourfavorite person who would probably
(49:57):
inadvertently tear down a Berlin Wall. Or raiseyour arm and wait for the vessels to turn blue.
Yeah, whatever. And on that note, goodbye. Music
Hi, and welcome to the Unhand History Podcast, apodcast where two friends are great friends and
they do this thing where they troll each othernonstop and they tell each other history stories
they've only recently learned or uncovered newfacts about and then verbally assault their
(00:29):
friend with that story. I'm host one, I'm Teresaand that I'm host two. I'm never going to figure it
out. I'm Angie and I have something to say. First ofall, if you're not trolling your best friend, are
they even your best friend? No, they're not atleast not the way I friend. Like if I'm nice to you, I
either don't know you don't like you. Oh, dude.Yeah, same. Same. If I'm not trying to bug the crap
(00:55):
out of you, we're not friends. No. I am veryuncomfortable with the fact that you just said
stories we've either just learned or things aboutstories we've just uncovered because that is what
my story is about today. So, what are you talkingabout today? I'm going to be telling the same story
(01:15):
you tell, but I'm going to do different detailsbecause Ian's already shared it with me. I know he
hasn't. I don't need any idea. Good try though. Itried to ask him the other week if he wouldn't mind
texting you and finding something out and he waslike, no, I'm not getting in the middle of that. I
was like, well, you're lame. Like, you'll do it forher, but you won't help me and he's like, yeah,
pretty much. Okay, cool. Yeah, if she's notworried about it, it's not a threat. Evidently.
(01:42):
Yeah. Okay. Rude. I guess I'll just start then.Yeah, I mean, would you please? Sorry. I didn't
write down the author of my article's name. I amgoing to tell you part two of the opening of the
(02:02):
Berlin Wall. Oh, so this day last year, I told youabout how the Berlin Wall was built, you know, all
of that. I'm going to give you a recap in just aminute, but I'm going to tell you about part two.
Okay, so my source is a NPR article called The ManWho Disobeyed His Boss and Opened the Berlin Wall.
(02:23):
This is from November 16th of 2024 by Soria Nelson.And then my other is the fall of the Berlin Wall, an
independent article written by Toti Patterson,November 9th of 2014. So with that said, I'm just
(02:44):
going to give you a little recap. When World War IIended in 1945, Germany was carved up into four
occupation zones, right? Each one's overseen byone of the Allied powers. You have the US, Britain,
France, and the Soviet Union, right? Now, Berlin,though, sits deep inside the Soviet controlled
territory, and it itself is also divided into foursections. And initially, people could move
(03:10):
between East and West Berlin with relatives, likeyou could live in one side and work in the other, and
you really didn't have much of an issue, right? Butby 1948, tensions are rising, things are
sharpening, and the Soviets, angered by theWest's economic reforms, they block all roads and
(03:31):
railways into West Berlin in response. The Allieslaunched the Berlin Airlift, where they fly in
food, fuel, and hope, and this is like a symbolicstand against tyranny, and this totally worked.
But also deepens the divide. In response, theAllies launched the Berlin Airlift, where
they're flying in food, fuel, and hope. It's thissuper symbolic stand against tyranny, and it
(03:55):
works. But the other side to that is it also deepensthe divide. By 1949, the two Germanies have
formed, you have West Germany, that's backed bythe Allies, and East Germany, which is under
Soviet control. In 1961, the East Germanauthorities, wow, that's a hard word for me to say,
(04:16):
East German authorities build what they call theanti-fascist protection barrier. We know it as
the Berlin Wall. Now, officially, it's meant tokeep fascists out. In truth, it's built to keep
people in. Now, behind the wall, I described thisin last year's episode, but I'll give you a recap.
(04:40):
Life continues, and sometimes competition takessurprising forms. You have East and West
Berliners, and they begin what is called theAnimal Arms Race. Do you remember this? The
Zoological... Oh yeah, yeah, no, I was alreadytaking notes to attach this to the David Bowie,
Berlin Zoo, competing zoo episode. So we havecompeting zoos with competing animals that are
(05:01):
submitted by their out-each allies from acrossthe world. And then, of course, because you can't
have a competing zoo on a Berlin Wall withoutespionage, we have espionage. In 1954, the CIA and
MI6 joined forces for what would be one of theboldest operations yet called Operation Gold,
where beneath the streets of Berlin, they build a1476 foot-long tunnel to tap Soviet phone lines.
(05:28):
And for nearly a year, they gather pricelessintelligence. Then the Soviets, quote, unquote,
discover the tunnel, but not by chance. They'dknown about it all along, thanks to a British
double agent by the name of George Blake. Thisdoesn't really embarrass the West. If anything,
the world marvels at the audacity of the plans. Andit's kind of like this reminder that even
(05:51):
underground, the Cold War is basically a contestof wit and nerve. And then comes the music. In the
late 1970s, David Bowie had lived in West Berlinsharing a small apartment with Iggy Pop, and it was
here that he recorded the song Heroes, and then thealbum, which was very haunted by the Cold War
(06:13):
isolation. Right. The title track Heroes talksabout being heroes just for one day while they
dream of freedom, blah, blah, blah, right? Weremember all that. I mean, it was brilliant. I
loved when you covered that. That was actuallystill probably one of my favorite stories to tell
you. A decade later, in 87, Bowie returns to Berlinfor a concert that staged right near the right
(06:35):
stage, which is just yards from the wall itself.For all of those playing at home that didn't listen
to this episode, his voice can the concert carryacross from West Berlin into East Berlin, and you
have East Berliners like gathering at the wall tolisten to him sing his songs. They're divided by
concrete, but totally united by the sound, and theEast German police panic. They attack young
(06:58):
listeners with water cannons and arrests and allsorts of things. But it's too late, right? The
music has done its work and the moment exposes thecruelty and division, but it also changes how
people, especially young East Berliners, seetheir government. A week later, Ronald Reagan
stands at the Bannonburg Gate and demands Mr.Gorbachev tear the wall down. Two years after
(07:24):
that, the wall falls. In 2016, when David Bowiedies, Jeremy's foreign ministry writes,
goodbye, David Bowie, you are now among heroes.Thank you for helping bring down the wall. Okay. So
after I told you that story, I was reminded that Ihad some very sweet friends that were in Berlin
(07:44):
when the wall fell. One was our former pastor. Hewas a young pastor at the time, a young minister at
the time, doing his ministry. And one was his youngwife, who they hadn't, she was a teenager. But she
is a West Berliner. So I called her and I was like,hey, would you mind sharing with me like your
(08:06):
firsthand account of what it was like for Berlinand for your family when the Berlin wall came down?
Because to me, I think we miss so much of history bynot hearing every day story. Right? Like we hear
these big grand stories, like all these great, youknow, women of World War II, espionage and all
(08:27):
their stories, but we don't hear what it was likefor just mom and pop. So it's like, hey, what, you
know, what was your life for you? And she left me areally great voicemail detailing her
experience. Basically, in her case, she believesthat her family didn't suffer the same sort of
separation that many other families of the timedid that were torn apart by the wall. Rather, her
(08:52):
grandmother had some foresight and she got as manyof her children to the West as possible. Like she
takes her three, she had like six or seven kids, butthe older ones were older and like married. So she
takes the children that she can with her to theWest. Wow. In like the 50s. Her, my friend, her name
(09:14):
is Allie, her mom was born just after World War IIand her father just before the war had ended, like a
couple of months before. So by the time the wall isestablished, her family is already firmly
established in the West. Okay. So like they're notseparated by this whole fight to get back to my
(09:34):
grandmother sort of thing. Grandmothers arealready there. There are some family members
still residing in the East though. One of heruncles, who she absolutely adores, had actually
been raised in the West but fell in love with a girlfrom the East. So he moved there, which she thought
was totally wild. Like why would you leave freedomfor the Iron Curtain? Because love. Right.
(09:58):
Because love. Because love. Right. Now she saysshe was still able to visit him often, like
throughout the summer, she could go and stay withhim for the duration of the summer. So she has like
these really, um, ideal like memories of herchildhood being there. And visiting was allowed
(10:19):
for family members under the rightcircumstances. Like for example, that favorite
uncle was allowed to come visit her family when hergrandmother turned like 85, because by then he was
old enough to be retired. So he wasn't consideredlike a flight risk, but his wife couldn't leave. So
(10:40):
he would be forced to come back. Right. So there'scircumstances that keep you wanting to come home,
but giving the opportunity for her to still go intoEast willing to visit him. Now she makes a joke to
him, August of 1989. She says, the next time youvisit, the next time we get to visit, you're going
(11:03):
to come see me, having no idea that we're justmonths away. Right. She's 16. What is like, she's
not paying attention to the news. Right. Yeah. No,she's just some 16 year old punk and just talking to
her uncle. Right. Like, right. And so she has noclue that she is like really speaking to sort of
into existence. Now, of course, according to her,she is not paying attention to the news. She is
(11:27):
aware of some things that are going on in the late80s, though. She will admit to having not known the
wall came down for like a couple of days, becauseagain, we're 16. We're not paying attention to the
news, but I definitely know something's going on.I'm just not sure what. Also, it's 1989. We don't
have social media. So what do we know? Now she toldme some really interesting things at this point
(11:49):
that I did not formally know. One is that obviouslyall along the border, there are guard stations.
Right. They're obviously manned. The other thingthat she points out is that Gorbachev knew keeping
the wall up and maintained is incrediblyexpensive. East Germany has no money to
(12:13):
contribute to this. And so Gorbachev basicallyreally does nothing after Reagan tells them to
tear down the wall. Like, he doesn't put out anyofficial orders or anything like that of like what
to do. So the wall is just kind of there and they'rekind of just doing what they've always been doing.
(12:33):
But there's a lot of maybe tension is the right wordin the air for some change, especially after the
David Bowie concert. Right. Now, becauseGorbachev doesn't give out any particular
orders, there is a lot of confusion and a lack ofreal orders for any of the guards along the wall to
(12:55):
follow, which leads this moment I didn'tpreviously know about. On the night of November
9th, 1989, a stasi guard by the name of LieutenantColonel Harold Yeager opens the gates to his
section of the wall. His section is called theBromhüllerstrasse crossing point, which
(13:16):
basically separates the Communist East Berlinneighborhood of Prenzelauer Berg from the free
West Berlin area of wedding. And I can't recall if Ididn't make this clear in any of my previous
episodes about this, which is weird that I haveprevious episodes, but free West Berlin is
(13:37):
literally walled off like an island in EastGermany. So the whole area is surrounded by this
wall, right? Yeah, that's kind of what I've beenled to imagine. So, right. So you can visualize how
these neighborhoods, how you could have this freeWestern neighborhood lined up right against this
Communist blockade, right? Okay. So I might havementioned it actually in episode 46, you brought
(14:04):
up by Potato King about the family that flies theirhot air balloon. Yeah, the Great Balloon Escape.
Yeah, I couldn't remember if I did or not, but Imight have. Anyway, so the night of November 9th,
1989, Yeager is in command of his station, but hehas no real orders. Like the other problem is there
(14:24):
is no lack of people wanting to get across. In fact,by 1130 that night, he's looking at over 20,000
East Berliners who are chanting Open the Gate.Now, there's a ton of confusion. He lacks clear
orders. They basically don't do what you have todo, but like don't really say what they mean. He's
(14:49):
looking around and he's got this ever-growingconcern of a stampede or a bloodbath or both. So he
makes the audible to open his gate. Now, what weneed to know about Yeager is that he is a career
border guard. Like he is fully behind thisoperation and fully believes in it, just like his
(15:13):
father was, well, like actually one of the firstborder guards in the East. So this is like a big deal
for him. In fact, he helped build the wall in 1961.So like this plan to literally trigger the
reunification of Germany is not what he'sthinking of. Right. But he is, this is what you do.
You stand guard. Right. And so he's like, oh my God,but he opens the gates anyway. And as things are
(15:42):
progressing, further down the wall, other guardsare seeing what happens. He does not see himself a
hero that night. In fact, he tells the independentquote, after I gave the order, I and the other
guards couldn't believe what we were seeing. Wewere shell shocked. We felt the world was
collapsing around us. He goes on to say, we stoodthere and watched our citizens leaving en masse.
(16:07):
These were our people. We cried. We felt betrayedby our peers. It was a terrible, the terrible
realization that not only did the system and ourleaders had failed, we had to. He goes on. Wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, you're saying that the wall fell
basically on accident and simultaneouslymultiple points of failure. Pretty much. Like
(16:30):
they saw him open his gate and I'll get to just stickwith me for a second because I'll get to his, what he
says happens in just a moment. He basically goes onto say that about half hour later, this vast group
of East Berliners, they're clapping and cheeringand crying these tears of joy as they pass through
the gates. And then he realizes what he's done. Andlike what's happened. And he says, quote, the
(16:57):
crowds won us over with their euphoria. Werealized that they were overjoyed and our tears of
frustration turned to those of joy. At that point,one of the guards came up to me and said, Harold, I
guess this was it with East Germany. And itsuddenly dawned on me that it was now. This is what
(17:19):
he says happened. So what I just told you is like thebrief overview of what the world saw. Jaeger, the
guard says earlier, he is watching the news or somesort of news brief in the canteen. When the East
Berlin, I'm going to jack this word up. I'm going totry so hard. Polit Borough member says this is like
(17:43):
a like the political representative of the EastBerlin government. Günther Schwabowski gives a
murky and garbled statement to the East Germansthat they can now travel west, providing they have
the current documents from the authorities. Butthen, all of a sudden, Schwabowski says they can do
(18:05):
so, quote, immediately and without delay. Now,what we need to know about him is he is totally
buckling under pressure. Just five days before,there's a huge anti-communist demonstration in
Berlin, as well as an exodus of East Germans acrossthe now open iron curtain into Hungary's borders
with Austria. So he is like, crap, the only waythings are going to work out for me in my like,
(18:32):
administration or regime is if I lift the travelban. This probably doesn't work out the way he
plans. So Jaeger sees this news brief that Imentioned, then goes to his post to find all these
curious East Berliners who are like, Hey, can welike cross the border? What's going on? Right? But
(18:55):
he doesn't really, he doesn't know. He just saw thesame news brief and he was like, uh, let me call my
boss. So mind you, as the hours progress, thenumber of East Berliners is also growing. And so is
the agitation. You can imagine. Oh, this makessense. Yeah. Right. So he calls his boss, the Stasi
(19:19):
Colonel Rudy Ziegenhorn, who is like, don't bug mewith this. They got to have the right documents and
pretty much hangs up on them. And our guys like,cool. Okay. By 8pm, West German news, so the West
German news now already has this statement fromthe East and they're interpreting the statement
(19:41):
saying that East Germany has opened its borders tothe West. So the independence says, quote, by 9pm,
the crowd had become so big that Mr. Jaeger wasbeginning to panic. We have to do something. He
shouted down the phone. He was then ordered todiffuse the situation by letting the noisiest
East Germans leave the crossing point for WestBerlin. The aim was to make it impossible for them
(20:08):
to return by rendering their passports invalidwith a special stamp. I realized then that I was
doing something which was illegal, even in EastGermany, he said, the tactics backfired. The
crowd seeing that the noisy were allowed in theWest started to get noisier. I mean, shocking. The
(20:32):
other guards along the wall, they know they'rearmed, but they're seeing their command like lose
control big time and big Jaeger to take some sort ofaction because they're fearing also the blood
bath should they try to do anything. And thisbasically leaves Jaeger with one option. In 1130,
(20:55):
that night, he orders to open the barrier. Theindependence said, quote, the human tide flowed
West until dawn. That's a lot of hours of peoplejust walking across the border. Yeah, no, that
honestly feels like a lot. It feels like 300 whenhe's talking about how his army is going to march
(21:18):
for miles and miles. Yeah, that's exactly, Ididn't see him in that costume, but yeah, that's
exactly what I was thinking. He calls his sisterwhen he shifts over and he tells her what he did. Her
response, you did well. So that's how the BerlinWall fell on November 9th. Holy cow. I know.
(21:42):
Thanks, David Bowie. Wow. Okay. Well, that'sgoing to be a hard pivot from where I'm going.
You're welcome. I just loved that there was not onesingle action that like, to me, it's so
fascinating to see the hair trigger moments thatcause these major historical events. And this was
(22:04):
just that my boss couldn't tell me what to do. Yeah,my boss was just overwhelmed watching his show and
just didn't want to deal with having to wait for arerun. Yeah, which is what it feels like. I can't
pause. I can't pause what's going on here. Can youjust wait till my episode's over and then I'll
figure it out? Yeah. So the Berlin Wall failedbasically because middle management can't
(22:27):
middle manage. Pretty much, but likesimultaneously, I personally, and this is just my
personal opinion, Gorbachev probably wanted itto. And so he didn't put out any specific orders
near the rest of his administration. So really,what's anybody going to do? I mean, I don't see that
you're wrong. I feel like it's the cheapest way toget the ball down because either way, you're going
(22:53):
to have to pay if you did intend to take the walldown. You're going to have to pay to remove a bit.
But if you let the citizens do it, it's done. Youknow, did you ever hear the story? I think it was
somewhere in, I want to say Eastern Europe, wherethis municipal government needed to build a dam.
They had spent years designing it, allocatingfunds for it. And then as they went to go break
(23:20):
ground, they realized a family of beavers had gonein, built the dam better than they could have and
did it for free. No. But this is kind of what thatfeels like. I mean, yeah, pretty much because
we've seen the photos, we watched them take therocks, like the concrete bricks right out of the
wall. Yeah. And they became mementos. Right. Theother thing that I didn't mention earlier that she
(23:45):
said that really sparked my imagination is shesaid on her side of the wall, like that her home, my
friend Allie, her home was just like a few blocksfrom the wall, I guess. And her side was all
graffiti. The other side of the wall in the samespot still had the feet and feet and feet of sand for
the death zone. Wow. And that's such a wild thing tolike, even comprehend, I guess, today in my mind,
(24:16):
right? But like, that was just life. She's like,yeah, our side was graffiti. Their side was like
spotless because nobody's allowed to get near it.Right. Like, whoa, that's nuts. Yeah, good luck
with your pivot. Yeah. Mine's gonna be a wildpivot. I decided to honor the indigenous history.
(24:40):
And so I am going to tell you the story of LosAngeles. Okay. That means you don't understand.
Off the top of my head, I'm here for it. I don't thinkI do. My sources, Reviewed Work, Women of the
Apache Nation, Voices of Truth by H. HenriettaStockle, Reviewed by June Nella Hayes, American
(25:02):
Indian Quarterly, Volume 18, Number 4, Autumn of1994, Women and the American Story, Life Story,
Lozen, circa 1840 to 1889, History.com, TheApache Woman Warrior Who Helped Lead Resistance
to European Invaders by Tony Takaran AikiWilliams. Lozen, she's born in 1840 to the Chahani
(25:31):
Apache Band near Ojo-Keliente in New Mexico.Okay, that's already fun. I mean, it means hot eye,
which, you know, for those of you like me who useGoogle Translate to get through anything with
Spanish other than ordering your tacos, you know.Speak menu. Yeah, I speak menu. I can order a beer.
(25:53):
Thank you so much. At the time, there's at leastseven Apache bands. There's numerous clans that
are spread throughout the vast area, and this isknown as Apacharia, and that's now in northern
Mexico, eastern Arizona, and then southwesternNew Mexico. So really, the great American
Southwest. Okay. Now, her band is also known as theRed Paint People, and they're recognized by red
(26:22):
bands of clay worn across their faces duringceremony. Now, you can picture them. It has been in
pop culture. We have seen them in movies. Thisgroup is led by her father. They're known for
raiding. And Apache bands, they tend to war withone another, and they tend to always be on the move.
So a very nomadic lifestyle. Oh my gosh. So you'retelling the story of the American Mongolians?
(26:49):
Yeah, basically. Now, Joey Padilla, he's amedicine man and a museum curator at the Mesquero
Apache Reservation in New Mexico. He goes on to saythat they never stayed in one place. So nomadic,
nomadic, nomadic. And then we get our maincharacter here, Lozen. Lozen, her name means
(27:13):
dexterous horse thief. Oh, love that for her. Yep.And this really reflects the skill that she
acquired that enabled her to sneak behind enemylines undetected, round up horses and steal them
away. Now, her stealth and courage, these aregoing to become the qualities that she's known by,
(27:35):
and she's going to basically be in constantconflict. Okay. So, horses. Yeah. When she's
seven years old, she learns how to ride horses. Andit's like how to walk and then I learned how to ride.
Basically. Now, her parents realize that she'sextremely talented as a horseback rider. And even
(27:58):
though she's a child, she's one of the best ridersin the band. Okay. Like this. Now, the Apache
apparently they've got some fairly strict genderroles. The men are warriors and the women gathered
prepared food and performed household tasks.When enemies attacked, it appears that women were
responsible for collecting the most importantitems of the house, the household and then running
(28:20):
to safety. Because of this, Apache women are ingreat physical shape. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah.
Because we are and that's why we're always on themove. Yep. Now, Apache girls, they tend to start
intense physical training around age eight. Sothis feels very Sparta, a gogi. Mm-hmm. Every
(28:42):
morning, they woke before sunrise and ran to thetop of a nearby mountain. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, no,
thank you. Now, they are a matriarchal culturewith a deity called the white painted woman at the
center of the creation story. And lozenunderstood from a very young age that women play a
(29:03):
very important role. As you. So all of this isspinning up, right? Mm-hmm. When she's a child,
there's an ambush of her people by Mexicans and theMexican men, they lured the Apache band with
promises of gifts and then they start to shoot atthem. Lozen and her brother, Victoria, escaped,
(29:23):
but many Apache men, women and children died. Andlozen never forgets this. Yeah, I wouldn't
either. Now, she grows up as a typical Apache girl.She's learning how to prepare food, sewing. She's
completing basically all the tasks that you wouldneed to learn to be a successful wife and mom. Now,
(29:45):
her path changes during her coming of ageceremony. And this ceremony marked a girl's first
period and celebrated her entrance intowomanhood. Okay, yeah, this makes sense. It's
during this time she receives a spiritual callingduring the ceremony and that gave her, this is
crazy, a power to sense location of their enemies.Oh, okay, okay. You know who I'm talking about now.
(30:12):
I think so, yeah. I don't think I know much, but it'sringing bells. This indicated that she's
basically on the wrong path, wife and mom is nother, she needs to become a warrior. Get it, get it,
mom, get it. So her brother, Victoria, he becomesthe new leader of the band and lozen joins the men on
(30:32):
raids and she's quickly gaining respect from allof the other male warriors. She eventually
becomes her brother's trusted partner and she'sgot some incredible talent as a hunter and
horseback rider. And then this ability that shehas to locate enemies made her a highly respected
warrior. Yeah. And she never marries or has kids.Oh, wow. Now, I don't know if I put it in my notes, but
(30:58):
one of the things they said that she would do is shewould hold her arms up and, oh, you know, I have it in
the next line. I'm going to keep it on check. 1848.Okay, carry on. New Mexico became a territory in
the U.S. under the Treaty of Hildago. And then wehave the California Gold Rush that's kicking off
and this is bringing tons of miners through apatria. And when lozen's 12, she goes through
(31:25):
these puberty rides, so she's still a wee one,right? And she, basically, were zooming back and
kind of going more into those special power bits.She's 12. She goes alone into the mountains and
according to oral history, she gains this abilityto track down her enemies. Now, Harlan Geronimo,
the great grandson of Geronimo that you know of, hesaid that lozen would lift her hands and walk in a
(31:48):
circle until the veins in her arms turn dark blue,indicating the direction from which her enemies
would approach. How the heck do you decide you knowthat that's what it's doing? Look, I don't know. I
wasn't there to A-B test this. Okay. I'm not worthit though. Let's go. I mean, hot diggity dam. Could
(32:08):
you imagine some pre-team coming down going, myarm is blue. We're going that way. I was playing
high like that. I was going high like that. I threwmy arms up and that arm's blue, so Victoria was that
way. And I'm never wrong. I mean, that's kind of howit sounds, right? Yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
(32:28):
So, mind you, 12, she began fighting Mexicansoldiers, scalping hunters, and the eternal
enemies of her band. Now, 1849, the Americansarrive and they start laying claim to her homeland
and she battles with them as well. In the book,Warrior Woman, the story of lozen, Apache
(32:52):
warrior, and shaman, Peter Alsher really goesthrough and really defines this. Her brother,
Victoria, he says that lozen is my right hand. Sheis as strong as a man, braver than most, and cunning
in strategy. She is the shield to her people. Oh, Ilove you, Victoria. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then
(33:18):
Padilla, the curator of the museum, he said thatshe was a warrior woman in her time. And as the
Apaches always had women with them, and she stoodright behind the man with a knife or gun. And if a man
went down, you had to deal with the woman too. Womenalso hid children from the enemies. Yes. So, you
(33:39):
just get this very strong, cohesive communitythat knows how to lock arms and go to war. After the
Mexican-American war ends in 19- or in 1848, thelands in Southwest become a part of the United
States and then we get more white people coming inand settling. And the government wants to grant
(34:00):
even more land to white citizens. Shocking. Andthis is when the U.S. forces the Apache groups into
reservations. They hate that. Yeah, this isn'texactly what they want to do. Now, we have in 1861
the Chacoan. We have a chief who's falsely accusedof kidnapping a rancher's son. I don't want to
(34:29):
butcher it much more than I just did. Okay. And thissparks a series of conflicts that embroils the
U.S. and various Apache nations and conflicts fora measly 24 years. Just a small couple of decades.
Yep. 1862, the chief, and another chief, they go tobattle at the Apache Pass. They bring 200 warriors
(34:54):
with them, but they get pushed into retreat andthen scattered by howitzer cannons because we've
got more firepower. This checks. Now, Lozen,she's at the Apache Pass and she's welcomed into
the council as a warrior and she fought for yearsnext to her brother, Victoria, as they struggle
for their homeland. And then she's likelyinvolved at horse rate in a horse rate at Fort
(35:20):
Craig. And this is where Apaches are armed withbows and arrows and they are taking horses from the
soldiers. 1869, she joined Victoria and otherApache leaders for a meeting to establish a
reservation at Oho Calliente, but insteadthey're moved to harsher conditions on the San
Carlos Reservation in Arizona. So bait andswitch. Now, 1870, the Warm Spring Apaches, they
(35:48):
agreed to move to Oho Calliente. However, thegovernment reneged, they go back on their
agreement and they force all of the Apaches.Surprise, surprise. I bet you didn't see that
coming. They force all Apache to go to San CarlosReservation in 75. And then San Carlos is pretty
(36:13):
far away from Oho Calliente and the conditionsgarbage, absolutely deplorable. The Apache
members, they're struggling with hunger anddisease and the government forced members from
various Apache groups to live together on thereservation. I see this going so well. Yeah, I
mean, look, we've done it before and it's failedthat time. So maybe it'll work this time. If at
(36:38):
first you don't succeed. Try, try again. Now,Lowe's and Victoria and some others from their
band, they flee. They're like San Carlos, deuceswere out of here. They eventually decide that
they're going to, it's war over return. Fair. Ifeel is a cooler phrase than death before
(36:58):
dishonor. Yeah, okay. Now they end up disbandingto evade capture and Lozen later escaped or Lola.
Lozen later escorted a group of women and childrento Mexico. They ended up crossing the raging Rio
Grande and there's a dude named James. Kawekala.He's a child at the time. He remembered writing
(37:26):
behind his grandmother as this band fled Americanforces. Kawekala, he says that he saw a
magnificent woman on a beautiful horse holding arifle over her head. And after the group reached
Mexico, they were cold, wet, but alive. And thenLozen rides back across the Rio Grande and she
returns right back to the fight. I love her. I mean,she can't stop won't stop. Now, many who escape are
(37:55):
caught or killed by the US military and then we getthose like the group that Lozen led. They make it to
Mexico. Victoria, he decides to lead his groupback to Oho Calliente and he tries to pressure the
government to honor their initial agreement tolet them live there. And when they returned to the
Oho Calliente reservation, they find themilitary had just shut it down. Just, you know,
(38:16):
bye, you don't live there no more. Bye, yes, thischecks. We already forwarded your mail. So you
pass will deliver. Yeah, you know, if it fits, itships. There we go. That's right. It ships. So back
at San Carlos, the government arrested theleaders of that band, including Geronimo. Now the
(38:41):
great, great grandson. The original Geronimo,the Geronimo that you would know from the Indian
side. Oh, okay. I misplaced my timeframe. And thenI was thinking that she was in the same timeframe as
the grandson. No, no, no, she is, she is with thehistoric Geronimo. Gotcha. Okay, that's
awesome. Okay, so they go when the warm springApache has heard the rumors that there were plans
(39:05):
to also arrest Victoria, they flee to themountains. They're like deuces and they get, they
attack a small group of American soldiers and thenthis starts a war between their band and the US
military. Shocking. Right. I mean, it'sbasically just guns and blazing over here. Now,
Lozen's group, they're on the lam. And whenthey're under attack, women and children that are
(39:30):
traveled small groups are separate from thewarriors because they're trying to downplay
casualties. During one attack, a group of womenand children had to cross the river to escape
American soldiers. The water's rising and thismakes the crossing it safely very difficult.
Lozen had left the group of warriors to help themget past, to just get past the river. Now, 1880, she
(39:57):
goes on to continue being her badass self becausethe warm spring Apache, they're on their way to
Mexico through Texas. And one of the women in theirgroup is pregnant. She starts going into labor.
The American soldiers are like right on theirheels. So Lozen left the group to help the woman
give birth. Okay. And they're separated from thegroup and that alone is dangerous. And a birthing
(40:21):
woman is not typically quiet. Yeah. Now. I'm goingto need you to shh. Yeah. Royal women don't cry out
in pain. We know this, honey. We talked about this.Yeah. Now Lozen, she had to leave her horse behind
to avoid being noticed by the military. Nowthere's two women and a new baby and new mom isn't
(40:48):
necessarily in any move to like walk. Like this isnot what she, her body's designed for at the
moment. No. Neither is horse riding if we're beinghonest. Look, you got to do what you got to do, you
know, like your vulva may be the size of agrapefruit, but there are things that have to
occur at this point. I'm just thinking of ourlioness of Brittany who's like, oh, you're in my
(41:10):
house. I just gave birth. Do you go? Yeah,basically. Yeah. Now Lozen also realizes that
they have no food or water. Oh, so to say they're inthe hurt locker is a bit of an understatement. Just
a bit. Now. Yeah. She notices that there's aMexican camp and she's like, you know what? I'm
(41:33):
just going to steal one of their horses. So shewaits until the minute or asleep. She uses her
super good skill and her dexterity at stealinghorses and skirts across the river, takes the
horse, evades bullets from the guard and makes itsafely back to women and her child and the three of
them flee together. Okay. Now she lozen tries toreunite with the main group and then she
(41:57):
discovered that the American soldiers areguarding every water source on the route. Which
makes sense. Super smart. You know, you're in thedesert. You know they're going to come to water. Do
what you got to do. Yeah. Okay. I hate that. Nowshe's able to find her way back, taking this very
long and dangerous route, but this takes weeks.And it's this long herring event that exemplifies
(42:22):
how Lozen blurred these gender lines becauseshe's the skilled warrior who's able to steal a
horse and evade capture. But she's also trained infamily care. So she is helping deliver a baby and
then take care of it postpartum. I was going to askthat when you said she left the group to take care
for the baby because so I'm assuming that while sheis a warrior and while she is clearly the commander
(42:47):
in the forces, right? Like her first duty as femaleis to protect the females and the children. Right.
And like there was, there's a documentary I sawabout her years ago. I didn't put it in here because
I couldn't remember where it was, but it wassomething along the lines of she realized as a
healer, as a midwife, that bringing life into theworld is more sacred than taking life out. Yeah, I
(43:15):
would agree. And so she made that choice to leavethe warriors when they needed her the most because
there was a duty that was greater than that. Yeah.Okay. I like this. Now, she ends up getting back to
the main group at the Mescalera Reservation andthat's when she learned that Mexican troops had
(43:39):
ambushed the Apaches. Around 80 members of herband were killed, including her brother,
Victoria. So she's the leader now? No. But she lefther brother knowing she had this special skill
that would allow her to detect her enemy. Andbecause she wasn't there, because she was
(43:59):
ushering in life, he died. Oh, yeah. Okay. So she'sdevastated. Yeah, there. And she ends up leaving
mom and new baby in Mescalero and she goes to lookfor other members of her band and eventually she
rejoined the survivors of that band at the SierraMadre Mountains. Okay. And then it's now 1880
(44:26):
after her brother's death, she joins the newchief, Nana, and they eventually joined
Geronimo's forces and rode with him to the end. Youknow what I'm thinking? This is so dumb. I'm
thinking this the entire time. She did all of thiswithout Google Maps telling her where to go. I
(44:46):
mean, look, you're not wrong. I'm like, I can makeit from Antica home. I can make it from San Jose
home. That's it. Right? I get confused with some ofthe neighborhoods in my own town where I was
raised. But you know what? That's the thing.There's other things we can do because of the
(45:11):
technology we got and were used to that they couldnever, right? Yeah, I guess that's true. Our
ancestors rode horses and traveled by night starsso we could have Google Maps. Yeah, they also took
so much longer at getting everything done. Theseare things. There's also that. So, okay. The
(45:32):
Apaches that remained at San Carlos, they fleeunder the leadership of Geronimo in 1885. Lozen,
she buddies up with Geronimo and uses her power toevade capture by the Americans and Mexican
soldiers because now it's two nations againstthis Indian nation. Now we get Lozen and Dateste,
(45:54):
she's another female warrior. They enter intopeace negotiations with the Americans. However,
as a surprise to nobody, the Americans aren'ttaking the negotiations seriously. And they're
like, you know what? We're just going to take youall and relocate you to Florida because same,
same. That checks. Yeah, cool. We've been livingin the American South for, I don't know, the
(46:18):
entirety of our existence. But Florida soundsgreat. Yeah. Alligators make a lot of sense to what
we're used to dealing with. Yeah, let's go. NowLozen and the other leaders decided to surrender
and join the force relocation of Florida. Theykind of are just resolute to the state. It's in
Florida that she contracts tuberculosis. Okay,put that on your bingo card. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
(46:46):
basically it was either that or syphilis, butGeronimo, like Lozen, surrenders to the U.S.
government and they're, they imprisoned Lozen ather Mount Vernon barracks in Alabama. So from
Florida and then they ship her back up to Alabama.And she dies there June 17th, 1889 and is buried in
(47:09):
an unmarked grave. Now, in an interview, an oldApache, Charlie Smith described her as, to us, she
was a holy woman and she was regarded and treated assuch. White painted woman herself was not more
respected. I was wondering when you said that theyoung person saw her crossing the river with her
(47:34):
arms up in the rifle of like, she's their whitepainted woman. Yeah, but that is the story of the
Apache woman warrior Lozen. I love her. I'm sad itwas tuberculosis. None of us make it out alive,
Angie. I know. I just wanted a blazing glory forher. I feel like that's what she probably would
(47:59):
have been aiming for. I mean, to be fair, I think themoment she paused to usher life into the world
rather than ushering life out. Yeah, I think, youknow, she just wanted the best for her family and
yeah, at the end of the day. Yeah. I would agree withyou on that. Wow, that was a wildly different
(48:24):
story. I feel like that's what you can expect fromme, though, no matter what you like. Apparently
the Berlin Wall is your room. It is. And it's theweirdest of my realms because it's the least
expected one, I think. Yeah, it is. But I think it'sright. I think, though, it's fascinating to me
(48:48):
because it happened in our lifetime. Like, we weretoo young to remember it, right? But like, we can
watch the news about it. Like, I watched a portionof the YouTube from the East German official when
he muffed the plot and told everybody they could goWest. It was in German, so I didn't understand any
of it. But like, we have access to that sort offootage, I guess. Yeah, it is definitely the
(49:13):
weirdest of my realms. I'm going to go ask Ian andhe's going to tell you something very different,
though, on what your realm is. Yeah, I'm nowcurious to hear what he would think. If you've got
your own Roman Empire and you want to know if we talkabout it, right in. It's unhinged.historypod at
(49:36):
gmail.com. Give us something to talk about. If youreally want to do something cool, rate, review,
subscribe, do those things. They really help usout. They allow other humans just like you to find
their tribe. And on that note, share this with yourfavorite person who would probably
(49:57):
inadvertently tear down a Berlin Wall. Or raiseyour arm and wait for the vessels to turn blue.
Yeah, whatever. And on that note, goodbye. Music
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.