December 12, 2025 • 55 mins
Old-timey history has tons of greats. Previously, Theresa and Angie lamented not having modern greats, until today. Theresa shares the Great Madison Butter Fire of 1991.
Join us as she regales Angie with the tale of 12,500 tons of dairy products going up in flames, releasing a river of cream and melted butter. This blaze took eight days to put out and was quite the event.
Angie shifts the episode's tone dramatically as she tells us the story of how JFK was saved by a coconut. During this episode, Angie makes Theresa crack up when she admits to not realizing he served in WWII.
This episode pairs with:
The NW Butter Crimes
Bad Butter Rebellion
The bonkers story of the Second Pacific Squadron
Josef Mencik – the WWII Knight
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast.The podcast where two compulsive nut jobs just
want to eat chocolate and tell each other historystories. And I'm out of chocolate. I'm not. I'm
Teresa. And that is host two. That is... I havechocolate and I am Angie. And I will interrupt her
(00:35):
today. And I thank goodness because I've had one ofthose days where I've taken my brain, rung it out,
tried to fill it with knowledge it does not containand pushed it sideways. Here we are. And now it's
sitting in the corner crying while she's carryingon. And you know what? But I realized you took the
(00:58):
entire episode last time and I teased you with agreat... A recent great, a modern great. You sure
did. You ready for the start? Yeah. Did you knowthat last time was our hundred and fiftieth
episode? It was. Mm-hmm. Look at it. I mean, itfeels right to be met and it for 150, I think. I kind
(01:24):
of wish I could have done this for 150, but here wego. This is the great butter and cheese fire of
1991. Fondue? I mean, close enough. But this wassuggested. This is one of those great things about
being on TikTok. A user named Panda Hime07, theysuggested this to me. And so I'm going to tell you
(01:50):
about... Take my sources. I'm going to go startthere. Wisconsin State Farmer. That's the spot.
Right? The Great Butter and Cheese Farmer of 19...Nope. The Great Butter and Cheese Fire of 1991 by
John Onkin. Madison Metropolitan SewerDistrict. They have an article titled Butter
River Cleaning Up Madison's Largest CommercialFire by Amy Stager. So you have a sewer district as a
(02:17):
source and I yelled that for the one time. I hadReddit as a source. Okay, but here's the deal. They
have great information that I trust becausethey're the authority on the subject. Okay, fair.
Oh, I'm watching how it... You damn well shouldbecause I'm going to fight you for it. Well, to be
(02:39):
fair, the one I used Reddit on a source for has noother sources. I know. I mean, look, I'm going to
give you hell to give you hell. I don't know if youknow this about me, but if I just, like, am super
quiet in the corner, check for breathing. I did sayyour brain in the corner crying earlier. But here I
am still running that mouth. You know, at leastyou're consistent. I damn straight. So journey
(03:05):
with me. May 3, 1991, we're in Madison, Wisconsin.There's a four alarm fire that's broken out at the
CSW facility on Cottage Road. It's near Highway 51for those playing nearby. And apparently this...
Not you, Vermont. Dude. This is after a forkliftexperience of battery malfunction. I'm sorry. A
(03:34):
forklift experience of battery malfunction, Isaid? Okay. Now, I didn't know this, but I'm sure
you're well aware. I mean, I'm sure you look this upall the time. CSW is one of the largest providers of
temperature-controlled warehouse storage inWisconsin. In the Madison... Shopping? No, I
(03:55):
didn't know that. I mean, look, I wouldn't be aspressured. You know what? We vacation there. At
the Freration Warehouse in Wisconsin. NiceAirbnb. You know, we rent an RV, take it all the way
across country, sit in the parking lot for a week,marvel at the engineering. I can assure you, if you
(04:22):
ever hear about me being in an RV, it's not me, andI've been taken against my will. Can assure you of
that. These are your safe words? We're RVingacross the country. How amazing. Police, I'm
going to need you to get a lock on this location.Facts. All right. Well, here's what might tempt
(04:49):
you. This location had more than 10 million poundsof government surplus butter, luncheon meat,
cheese, and food products for Oscar Mayer, SwissColony, and many other food processing
facilities from around the state. Governmentcheese. Government cheese. And see, it was
like... But hearing it start with governmentsurplus butter, I was like, you clearly have
(05:16):
surplus syrup. Okay, fair. But like the surplusbit through me, I was like, just... That's an
extraneous word. Yeah, it feels like it was anunnecessary for sure. Like, just this butter.
People are going to use it surplus or not. Now, Ishould tell you that at the time of one of the
(05:43):
articles that I used for this, there's MadisonFire Department Chief Steven Davis. He was still
in Newby with the Madison Fire Department. He'donly been there a couple of years. And when the fire
takes off, he doesn't arrive as part of the initialresponse, but he gets there in time to see the
outside walls of the building collapse and letloose a wave of melted butter that engulfed
(06:08):
everything. I'm not saying this is bad. I'm justsaying this as could I stick a bowl of pasta in
there? I mean, this really sounds like cloudy witha chance of meatballs. Yeah, I mean, like what I'm
hearing is recipe for a great pot of mac and cheese.I mean, look, I'm not saying that this is even more
(06:34):
spectacular than my great whiskey fire, but thisfeels... At least nobody's going to die drinking
the river. Well, actually, I take that. I mean,we're not even very far in the story yet, Angie. How
dare you? Sorry. Sorry. Now if somebody dies,you're going to feel guilty. I mean, it feels so
(06:58):
bad. I'm going to have to read Ms. Starry card.Anybody brand them 40 years later to get a
condolences card from somebody? It's likeHallmark didn't make this card, so I had to break
out the crayons. Sorry. Now Fire Chief StevenDavis says that he saw a river of butter, which
(07:20):
cracks me up so much. There's trucks, ladders, andother equipment in the middle of a sweet cream pond
where five feet of butter collected in the lowspots. And the more water the firefighters use,
the more, quote, gooey stuff flowed out of thebuilding, unquote. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. By around 3
(07:45):
p.m., there's spraying water at this fire at a rateof about 5,000 gallons a minute, and they're
having some issues. Unimaginable. Apparently,the insulation in the walls of this warehouse are
highly flammable. Because of course they are.Uh-huh. And the 50 million pounds of high fat food
(08:09):
products fueling what essentially becomes agiant grease fire. You're having a big... There
isn't one of those kitchen blankets big enough tosolve this problem. No. And apparently there's
high winds that are fanning the flames to adjacentwarehouses. So this could be like a chocolate
(08:37):
meltdown also. Yeah, it depends on what's in thatnext building. Yeah, okay. I'm here for it. Is it
piano storage? Is it cacao? Like, what are... Is itcoconut butter? What are we playing with, you
know? Yeah, I'm here for it. Lieutenant GordonBregren. I butchered that sorry, Madison Fire
(09:02):
Department Lieutenant. He said 10 years after theblaze that when you're reflected back on the size
of the fire, he said a lot of times you can tell howbig a fire is just by what you see coming in the
distance, and you could tell this was going to bepretty good. This part cracks me up because A, hubs
was a trained firefighter. B, I hung out at collegewith a bunch of firefighters because
(09:23):
firefighters and... No explanation needed.Like, look, if you don't get it, if you know you
know. And they just really enjoy being able to puttheir skills to work. Yeah. Most of their calls are
medical calls. And I mean, those aren't as good ashours and hours of work. Yeah, not nearly as fun.
(09:51):
No. Unless it's that cute old lady that keepspretending to fall just so she has to get picked up
by a firefighter. If I was a firefighter and thathappened to me, I would be there every week. You
know, I don't know if I would be. I'd be like Bertha.Grab my ass last time. I had a goose egg. I didn't
know you'd get a goose egg on your butt. Gertrude,can't see yourself. I am going to tell all the
(10:15):
little old ladies in your sewing circle all aboutthis because this is atrocious. That is exactly
the type of firefighter I'd be. I am the age of yourgrandson. This is ridiculous. Come on now,
Bertha. Get it together. Mm-hmm. All right. Canyou look at my granddad? Your literal granddad?
(10:37):
Oh, no. Oh, sorry. You were still on the thing. And Iwas like, doot, doot, doot. Back to the story. Now,
the fire at this point has been going for severalhours. And the foods from the warehouse are oozing
out into the surrounding area and they become thisgiant river of butter. Okay. It's a mixture of
(11:00):
water, melted butter, and other food materialsthat are flowing into low-lying areas near the
scene. Now, they're wading through two to threefeet of butter and then in some areas it's getting
up to five feet deep. Gnarly. This is gross. Andlike our man, Chief Steven Davis, said, I had
(11:25):
butter in places a guy shouldn't have butter by theend of the night. Which this just... Listen, he's a
moisturized king. And he just smells like the badend of a popcorn bucket. Now, at one point while
(11:47):
he's battling the blaze, our moisturized king issent to the roof of the adjacent building where he
and a few others are focusing the hose on this firefor about eight hours. They are in it to win it.
Okay. He finally comes down from the roof at 5.30a.m. the next day. Good Lord. Okay. Like I didn't
(12:12):
think they brought that much water. I'm stillstuck on the fact that I can picture him. He's
marinating in butter. Like just throw some garlicin there. Like... His feet had to just... Mmm.
Yeah. Thoughts and feelings. Mmm-hmm. The nextday, he and his team, they attempt to move the hose
(12:38):
line further between two of the buildings. And hesteps off a loading dock into what he thought was
solid ground, but found himself chest deep andmelted butter. So gross. Just to feel like this is
good and then commit and then just write in... Thisis my life now. Yeah. This is... You know, just
(13:02):
bring me a sandwich. This is the quicksand theywarned me about in the shows. Which we were totally
prepared for growing up and have yet to see it asadults. We're going to be as bad. It is, but
apparently melted butter was an option now. Well,you know, here you go. The fire crews from Madison,
they're on site for days putting out this fire. Itspreads to that second building and then they have
(13:28):
a third alarm that goes off. There's hours later,there's a... The building collapses and the fire
threatened. The facilities, I should have lookedat how to say this, and hydrous ammonia tanks.
Now... Oh my gosh, is this the science tanks thatkeep things from coagulating? Maybe. I should
(13:53):
have looked that up. Okay. But either way, tanks,ammonia, specialized ammonia, I'm just going to
go with that because I can say that out loud and notsound like an idiot. And this spurs an evacuation
of 3,000 residents in the half mile of this fire.3,000 residents in a half mile? It's Madison, it's
crowded. Okay, you know what? In my mind, I waspicturing this like a cute little town. I didn't
(14:19):
even make the connection that we're... Okay,sorry. Burnham Major City? Yeah. Nope, I was
imagining Bodunk Sonora, but in Wisconsin,you're not going to see 3,000 people for miles. You
might get everybody together at a parade. Thathappened. Right. Now, during this fire, you've
got the butter, you've got the food products,they're discharged into this large, concrete
(14:43):
lined, storm water channel that's adjacent tothis factory or warehouse. And this channel
drains directly into Lake Monona. I was going tosay Montana because it's super close to that, but
it's not having the tea, so here we are. So thebutter drains into this... Into this channel, and
(15:05):
the channel that goes directly to the lake. So nowwe're making a crock pot. Now we're taking these
food products and we're introducing them towildlife and fish. Wildlife. Right. Yeah. Well,
those fish are going to have... I mean, okay.Gross. Now, typically you want your butter done in
a certain way, you know? Yeah. I mean, I want my fishcovered in butter, but not like that. Yeah. You
(15:31):
want to do it yourself. Mm-hmm. Free or, you know,right as you're cooking and post-cooking, not
pre-cooking. And not... Oh, I've... Yeah,preferably. Now, the fire department, their job
is to put the fire out, obviously, while trudgingupstream through this butter flood. And it's the
(15:55):
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources'responsibility to tame this butter river and make
sure that it doesn't taint the lakes and streams.It's not as scent as I ever thought I was going to
hear. Tame this butter river. Look, I am here foryou. This story is the gift that keeps giving. I am
(16:15):
equally delighted and disgusted at the same time.Well done. You know what? It doesn't have missing
legs, but it has a butter. Which feels right for aTeresa story. If it doesn't have a missing body
part, butter's probably involved. I've done thebutter crimes. I've... My butter stinkeths.
(16:37):
Yeah, the bad butter rebellion. Yeah. Like, I'mokay with this. I mean, good for you. Surprising as
it may be. Now, I'm so sorry. I'm trying so hard toget it together. Don't, don't please. This only
enlivens everything. The City of Madison and theDepartment of Natural Resources, they use dirt or
(17:03):
fill dirt to create dams in the channel to preventthis oil-rich liquid from reaching the lake,
which seems logical to me. And this is happeningas, because this is 1991, crowds of onlookers, TV
cameras, and everybody are watching theactivities, and the water level behind the dam
continue to rise and to threaten to overtop thedams. I hope what Bedia Commons has a solid news
(17:29):
broadcast on this that we can watch. Emergencyworker Kent Kruger said in a 1991 interview, Six
stories of butter melted and started flowing intothe streets and sewers. We had to take an
in-bloader and put sand on the burning butter.Okay. A few minutes ago, when I said there is not a
(17:53):
kitchen blanket big enough to solve this problem,my first thought was, I wonder if... I wonder if the
next building over is full of flour and we can throwthat at it. I don't think you want to throw flour on
top of a fire. I'm pretty sure that too isflammable. I think, and I could be very wrong on
this, but I remember reading there is oneparticular kitchen fire that like flour or sand is
(18:16):
what you want to throw on it, but I can assure you itis not a grease fire. So butter is not the one.
Butter is not the one for a grease fire. Let'sjust... You know what? If you're in the middle of a
fire and you're listening to this podcast, turnthe podcast off. We're not here to help you. Come
back to us when you're safe. We're going to be thewarm blanket and the hug. We are not here to help.
(18:42):
No, never. But yeah, mark yourself safe from ourpodcast and your butter fire. Yes. Yeah. Now
around 8 p.m. the city contacted the district toask if the butter liquid mix filling the
stormwater channel could be placed in thesanitary sewer system. District director of
operations and maintenance, a man named Paul NEM,took the call from home Friday night from the city
(19:10):
of Madison director of public works, Gary Nelson,just as the local CBS station broke regularly
scheduled programming because they're watchingthe show. Dallas with news and visuals of the flame
shooting out of the warehouse. The 90s were wild,man. I didn't realize how insane they were because
(19:32):
I don't remember this. No, I was a kid. Yeah. No. Myhusband doesn't remember this. His family is from
Wisconsin. He was in SCAR at the time. He seemedlike me. Like you'd think that they would know
this. Yeah. No one remembers this. It feels likesomething you don't forget. You should like, I
wouldn't forget a river of butter. Are you kiddingme? Yeah. No. Okay. So as this is happening,
(19:59):
district personnel immediately go to the scene ofthe fire. So this is like the health and safety
peeps, not the fire department. They've got staffcoordinated with city personnel and they're
beginning to pump the melted liquid into thesanitary sewer system. They're offloading all of
this butter and as everybody else is trying tofight, oh, they're also trying to fight the grease
from clogging the lines that they're using to pumpout all the butter. Right. Okay. That makes sense.
(20:24):
It makes a ton of sense. We don't get thosenotifications around Thanksgiving for nothing.
Yeah. Maybe this is why. They're going to hit likeearly May if you're in Wisconsin and December and
every other state. Mm-hmm. Now, by the end of May4th, more than 3 million gallons of melted butter
(20:45):
and fire runoff had been pumped into the sanitarysewer. By May 5th, the rains came and the rising
water levels threatened to send the butter floodover the last dam into the Stark Weather Creek. It
gets better and better and better and better. TheDepartment of Natural Resources had to quickly
(21:10):
build another two dams before noon. That'simpressive. They got that done, but they either be
through this all the way through. Because I feellike, okay, the county, I live in, it would take six
months for the first dam to even be approved. Ithink, you know, when you're in an emergency
situation like this, it kind of speeds throughbureaucracy. It greases the channels of
(21:33):
bureaucracy, if you will. Good job. I do what I can,you know. Oh, I've died. Okay. By May 6th, another
11 million gallons had been pumped into thesanitary sewer. Gross. The fire is now under
control, but something had to be done about all thecongealed butter that had accumulated in the two
(21:58):
ponds. Just light it on fire in the pond. Oh, yes,that doesn't work. Okay. You're trying to just
come up with additional ecological disasters.Yeah, my initial thought was if you light it on fire
in the pond where it's at, like, to be processed,that would solve the problem. But that's how we got
(22:21):
here in the first place. I don't see it. I don't seeit. So the DNR, the Department of Natural
Resources, they said the U.S. Department ofAgriculture brought in salvage contractors to
remove the food waste. The few following weeks arededicated cleaning up. Huge piles of meat and
rubble are being hauled off to the Dane Countylandfill, staying ahead of rain and heat that
(22:47):
re-melted the congealed butter as they graduallypumped the butter out of the tank. And then they put
it into containment ponds. That's so gross.According to the state's DNR records, the fire
resulted in the release of a thousand pounds ofthat ammonia mixture, 5,000 pounds of food
products, including hams, hot dogs, bakeryitems, and cranberries. Okay. The cranberries,
(23:13):
they snuck in there. You're dead. Didn't see thatone coming. You know you gotta get your healthy
food, too. Yeah, you gotta just sneak it in there.There were 12,500 tons of dairy products, mostly
butter and cheese. And the archive estimates thelosses at 7.5 million in property damages and 70
(23:34):
million in contents. So the surplus is in thenegative now? Yeah, it's no longer a surplus.
Chuck's. And that blaze took eight days to putcompletely out. That is insane. Yep. Now, after
(23:59):
two weeks after that fire broke out, theDepartment of Natural Resources said efforts to
clear the spoiling meat products and to keep themelted butter out of the waterways was a success.
Well, that's good. Yeah, it's a success. Now, theysaid that they'd been monitoring the waterways
and very few fish died after the fire. And they saythat this is remarkable because this butter river
(24:24):
was so substantial. It appeared so quickly. Andthe crews had barely any time to assemble the
materials and build embankments. Shocking. Thesign outside of that facility that has this polar
bear, that remains. And the cleanup costapproximately, you know, just over a half million
(24:46):
dollars. And this was largely covered by CSW and agrant from the USDA. And in their attempt to clean
up all the butter, the fire department is forced tothrow away nearly all of the firefighter gear that
was used. Okay, I was going to ask. How did you getthat out of their uniforms? I think you give up.
(25:13):
Just step one, give up. Davis. Chuck it. Chuck it inthe bin. We don't need it anymore. Yeah. Well,
there's something else that just hearssomething. This is when they got hubs. This made
him feel gross. Davis is still new to the job at thispoint. He got stuck with steam cleaning the hoses
that weren't completely destroyed by the butterimmersion. And he described the cumulative
(25:35):
effect as a rotten smell, one that lasted for yearsand years at the fire station. There is no amount of
bleach that can get that out then, huh?Apparently. Gross. The CSW warehouse has been
rebuilt and any trace of the once mighty butterriver that once flowed through the area has
(25:57):
vanished. I hope at no point while you were writingthese notes you expected me to take any part of this
story series. Nobody died. That's a bonus. Right?That's a real bonus. Yeah. But that is the story of
the Madison Butterfire. Or the Great Butterfireof 91. I would like to know if it implies there was
(26:24):
like a great Butterfire of 1643. I'm unclear. Butwe have a recent great. So this is a win. A win is a
win, Angie. A win is a win and an absurd win. It couldhave been the Great Anything. And here you are
working the Great Butterfire. I couldn't be moreimpressed. You're welcome. Yeah. I don't know
(26:53):
where my notes are. You're like, I am soflabbergasted that I refuse to look. My flabbers
have been gassed. Okay, I got them. I didn't knowwhere my notes are. I don't know where my notes are.
Oh, they're right here. I thought that I was goingto have to open another tab, but I didn't. You'd be
(27:21):
shocked to learn that I have a World War II story. Ohwow, look at you. But I bet you'd be more shocked to
learn that my last World War II story was all the wayback in September. I think enough time has passed
for me to be back on my crap again. This feels weird.I know I had to look. Like, for the two of us who can't
(27:47):
get off on who just, we cannot leave this wellenough alone, like I'm actually looking and yeah,
no, you're right. This feels weird. Fix it.Doesn't it? Fix it. I will trust I'm going to fix it.
This story smacked me in the face and I am sodelighted to share it with you. Have you ever heard
(28:15):
about the time a coconut saved JFK's life? Yes, butI have not retained the details. Like I've heard
those weird bits. Fabulous. So my sources are anarticle from The Hill by Barbara A. Perry from 22.
(28:38):
Why President JFK kept a coconut husk on his desk?This is from the, like an Australian university
like content education site. Okay. The HarvardCrimson, Harvard coaches recall Kennedy as a
frail and mediocre athlete. A New Yorker articlefrom World War II by John Hersey from June 10th of
(29:07):
1944. And then just to confirm a fact, the HubHistory Podcast, Boston History Podcast, I have
not read it, heard it. I just read the fact. Theyhave a little blurb on JFK and his PT boat. But okay,
so here's the gist. There's also a Smithsonianarticle, but I didn't really use a ton of that.
(29:28):
Okay. There is a great magazine called Coffee orDie. And that's where the bulk of my story comes
from. It's written in August of 21 by Matt Fredisand it's delightful. I got to tell you that I never
once thought about JFK being alive during WorldWar II, let alone serving during World War II.
(29:51):
Yeah. That's so good for me. I feel like I knew that.I never even thought about it. So when I was like,
wait a minute, no, those are two very separate,like, those are very different timelines. He did
not exist at that time. That's not true. It's a lieand I was wrong. He just manifested at 35 and
decided the presidency is for me. I'm going for it.You can't stop me. Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah.
(30:15):
Okay. So for funsies, John F. Kennedy is born May of1917, just outside of Boston, obviously, to a
prosperous family. None of this comes as asurprise, so we're going to fast forward a little
bit. It's 1940 and as a student at Harvard, hewrites his thesis paper regarding the
appeasement in Munich. Now, this is obviouslyabout the negotiations of the then Munich
(30:40):
Agreement, which I mentioned before in a couple ofepisodes, but specifically, Episode 135, a
Renaissance garden gnome about Joseph Mincikputting a little Lindsay into our world.
Kennedy's thesis paper with the help of his fatherand a few other men becomes the book called Why
England Fletch, which I was like, whoa, that'scool. I didn't know that was a thing either because
(31:05):
why would I? I didn't even know he was alive duringWorld War I. I never thought about it or during
World War II. Never even thought about it. So herewe are. It is worth mentioning that Kennedy Sr. was
the US ambassador to the United Kingdom from 38 to40. Yep. And he supports then Prime Minister
Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement.This stance doesn't go over well for him and proves
(31:27):
disastrous for the rest of his political goals tothe point of him being removed as the ambassador.
JFK would go against the support for theappeasement, especially since he had personally
witnessed the Luftwaffe's early bombings ofBritain. In fact, proceeds from the 80,000 copies
sold, the ones that sold in the UK went to the city ofPlymouth to help rebuild that with bombings,
(31:53):
which I think is a really cool fact. That is cool.The proceeds from the US sales bought Kennedy a
Buick convertible. Man of few worlds, I suppose.That's a very kind way to put it. Yeah. OK. So
(32:13):
Kennedy at this point, he's a young man and he isbelieving more and more that there needs to be an
Anglo-American alliance to fight against theReich. And he becomes increasingly more
supportive of US intervention in World War Two.Now, I think it's really interesting that while
him and his dad do not agree on this at all, his dadfully supports his stance on it and helps him get
(32:39):
the book, like his thesis turned into a book, whichI thought was pretty cool, like Dad Muth, right?
Now, you've got to tell me he had to be like, thisline, are you really sure about this line? This
line's a bit hard to say. I'm 100% sure that's how itwent. But I do think it is at least we get a little
glimpse of their relationship there, right?Like, I don't have to agree with you, but I'm going
(33:02):
to help you succeed. Now, Kennedy plans. I said,did you just? No, I mean, I was pointing at you like
you got it. And then I was like, you got quiet. Areyou breaking up? Are you still there? I know. I
thought you were telling me, like, hold on. Sorry.Okay. Now, Kennedy, he plans to attend Yale Law
(33:26):
School when he's done with Harvard, but he cancelsthose plans when it becomes all the more clear that
the Americans are going to enter the war. And in1940, Kennedy tries to enter the Army's Officer
Canada at school, but again, he has fragilehealth, which means he could have avoided
conscription from every part of the war, or at thevery least, his family's ties could have gotten
(33:51):
him a cush desk job. Oh, his family ties could haveeasily protected him, right? However, instead of
using those family ties for protection, he usesthem to get the director of the Office of Naval
Intelligence to Naval Intelligence to help himjoin the US Naval Reserve and is commissioned as an
(34:13):
ensign on October 26th in 1941, and he joins theOffice of Naval Intelligence in DC. But then in 42,
to quote the Hill, instead, he enlisted in the Navyjust prior to Pearl Harbor and used his family
connections to engineer an assignment in theSouth Pacific War against Japan as a patrol
(34:34):
torpedo boat skipper. So, OK, this is likeweaponized nepotism. I mean, yeah, brilliant.
His health is so bad, he should have beendisqualified from any form of active duty. But
(34:54):
Kennedy Sr. provides doctored medical recordsthat his son's health, like for his son's life, and
convinces PT boat officers that having Kennedy intheir ranks would be good for publicity for the
Navy, and it works. So he provides false documentsand is like, yeah, PR campaign, the Navy's going to
love having my son around. Wow, I really wish,like, I've thought that he'd have done everything
(35:20):
he could have to kept his son safe as opposed tolike, hey, harm's way, here you go, I forged your
paperwork to put my fragile little boy right on thefront lines. Pretty much. Now, he is assigned to
the Panama Canal and they're not really seeing anyaction, and he then uses those connections again
by reaching out to Senator David Walsh fromMassachusetts, who pulls strings to get Kennedy
(35:45):
reassigned to the South Pacific where war isactually happening. So that's kind of how JFK ends
up in the South Pacific. And the whole time, unlikeat any point, dad could have told you, no, sit down.
Every time dad was like, let me make a phone call foryou. So April of 1943, Kennedy is assigned to this
(36:06):
motor torpedo squadron number two. On April 24,Kennedy takes command of PT 109, which is a wooden
hull patrol boat that's based at a TouloghiIsland, which is in the Solomon's. Okay. By August
1, their campaign, it's called the New Georgiacampaign. Kennedy's commander hit a man called
(36:28):
Promise G. Warfield, which honestly seems such anapt name for a man in battle. You charge or you
ascribe so much to the last names of people. Yes.Like names. This guy has the last name of a putz. He
doesn't need to be Admiral. Just down the vote ofhim immediately. Go. Crappy name. You're out.
(36:48):
Names mean a ton to me. So Warfield gets intel thatsomething called the Tokyo Express is due to
arrive in their area. Very shortly. What is theTokyo Express? You might ask. It is for Japanese
destroyers and float planes carrying food andsupplies as well as 900 Japanese soldiers.
(37:13):
They're on their way to the Villa PlantationGarrison, which is on the southern tip of the
Solomon Islands. So Kennedy, his boat and 14 otherpatrol boats are out looking for this convoy,
which seems like a lot if you're trying to bestealth. Right? Yeah. But like maybe stealth
isn't their goal here. Matt Fratis writing for acoffee or diet magazine, writes that it is a
(37:40):
moonless and starless night in the blackedstrait, which is south of the Solomon Islands
where our boys are situated and they are runningsilent to avoid detection. When all of a sudden
Kennedy spots the Tokyo Express and the patrolintercepts three battleships and one escort. The
(38:03):
patrol fires 30 torpedoes and not a single one hitsits target. Hello, Kam Chaka. Is this you? You're
like a stormtrooper. Are you for real? The patrolthen gets orders to return to base. However, the PT
109, which is Kennedy's and three other boats forma line across the straight, which offers cover to
(38:29):
the others to retreat. One of the PT boats has radargoing and it is the only one and it takes off after
the Japanese target, which we the other threeboats literally flying blind. Now, their lack of
radar is not the only problem our boys have. Theskippers know full well that the phosphorescent
(38:51):
plankton in these wonderfully warm tropicalwaters can easily turn their wakes into glowing
targets from the air. Oh, joy. So. The beauty ofnature. Yeah. So these boats are chugging on only
one of their three engines to try and turn them tokeep the water calm. It's about two 30 in the
(39:14):
morning when a shape looms into view and it'straveling fast, like 40 knots or roughly 46 miles
an hour. It's on course to take out the PT 109.Initially, Kennedy and his 13 other men think it's
another PT boat and that it's really not until theblack hole of the Japanese destroyer. I'm going to
(39:34):
butcher this. Amigurie like meets them that theyrealized they have they have made a critical
error. Kennedy tries his best to swing the PT 109right and hopes he'll be able to bring the
torpedoes in line to make a shot, but there's notenough time. And in roughly 10 seconds, the
Japanese destroyer rams the PT boat literally inhalf because it's got a wooden hole. Yeah. Oh, not
(40:03):
great. Right. Kennedy is thrown off his feet andjust misses being a part of the very damaged
cockpit. Two of his sailors are killed instantlyand the rest are of course left like flailing in the
water, right? The Japanese boat just steams awayand it is so much bigger than the PT boat that its
(40:23):
wake alone puts out the flames of the PT 109. Oh,that's a massive wake. Yeah. How the hell you
weren't able to tell the boats apart? Baffles mybrain. But anyway, Kennedy and five of his men are
clinging to like this little floating section oftheir boat and he immediately starts calling out
(40:44):
for the rest of the survivors. He gets like sixreplies. He finds his gunner mate, Charles
Harris, badly wounded and the motor machine ismade Patrick McMahon had suffered from burn
injuries when the PT boat's fuel tank explodes.No, thank you. We can't just like have one
accident. No, no, we've got to have a myriad ofthings. There has to be a cascading effect. It's
(41:08):
not cinematic enough. It's not butter. I mean,look, the butter has to try to kick off the ammonia
tanks, which needs us to evacuate the residentswho are being the looky loo. Exactly. Exactly. So
they're only about a hundred yards from whatremains of their boat, but it takes Kennedy three
hours to rescue the two men in the dark because it'sdark. Yeah. Once everyone has collected a brief
(41:34):
discussion is held about what to do next. Kennedysaid later, quote, there's nothing in the book
about a situation like this. A lot of you men havefamilies and some of you have children. What do you
want to do? I have nothing to lose. A decision ismade that all 11 of the survivors would leave the
wreck and sinking boat and swim to an island that'sjust about three and a half miles away. Just a
(42:00):
measly, you know, just says the man who's allergicto cardio. Pretty much. This island, it is called
Plum Island. But fun fact, this is an absolutelymanageable fee for Kennedy as he had been on
Harvard swim team. Oh, OK, so that that he could do.Yeah. Now, while he wasn't a top as top notch as some
(42:23):
of the other swimmers, he was on the freshman teamthat Harvard considered to be their best ever. And
evidently, like beating Yale is a big deal. So likeswimming, he's got that he can do that. But like
other sports, that absolutely not. And he's frailand he can't breathe and all the things, right? But
there's another problem with what you'rehearing. Yeah. Nickman can't swim. And I'm
(42:48):
assuming that's because of his injuries. SoKennedy takes Nickman's belt or like the belt from
his life jacket. It's described different waysand different sources and sticks it between his
teeth and toes him all three and a half miles. Sohe's swimming for himself and for another day. And
(43:09):
basically being Fido holding this man's belt inhis teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Why? My mouth hurts
already. And I'm not holding another man's life inmy mouth. Literally. Two of the others also
(43:30):
couldn't swim, but they were either pushed orpulled along by those that could on like bits of
wreckage, right? Kennedy, he arrives to theisland first, but he is of course exhausted. So
Nickman is able to help him get to shore like theywork together to get to shore. But don't worry,
they're not done swimming because they get a bitspooked when they see a Japanese barge go by. And
(43:55):
it's decided that Kennedy is going to swim down toFerguson Passage, which is supposed to be a place
that's frequented by the American PT boats. To getthere, he has to cross coral reefs, which like and
whatnot. And after, I don't know, another hour orso of swimming, he realizes their rescue is not
(44:18):
coming, like not tonight anyways. So he swims.Like he's making the swim back and that swim alone
almost takes him out. Because you have to figurehe's been in the water now for like seven or eight
hours, swimming, right? And he hasn't swam likethis. This one back here. Right. The swim backs got
(44:42):
this super rough current and it forces him to stopoff at an island southeast. Um, his, his men call
the island Leo Rava. So for the next like couple ofdays, him and the other survivors that can swim are
swimming back and forth to surrounding islands,looking for fresh water and food, like fresh
(45:03):
coconut, if you will, like something to eat andsomething to drink. And then Kennedy and Ensign
George Ross, they go exploring Nauru Island,which is the last island in the chain, but it
overlooks the Ferguson pass. So they're kind oflike, okay, maybe if we can see what's going on from
there. Now, meanwhile, back on their, like wherethey're, or the rest of their navy is, they're
(45:30):
assuming the ship is lost and they've died. Sothey've helped funeral services for the guys. And
someone writes George Ross's mama letter,talking about what a great man George Ross was and
how he was the most, um, like he died for a cause he,he most aptly believed in and all the things, but
like they're, they're alive and kicking. They'rejust 65 miles to the south and can't get radio. I
(45:57):
mean, I honestly, I feel for these guys. They'rejust right. Like, yeah, they're having a day. So
Kydian and Ross, Kennedy and Ross, they go explorethis island. It's the last island in the chain,
like I said, but it's overlooking Ferguson past.And while they're there, they find some
remaining, like leftover Japanese bits,including some pins of candy. I said they're
(46:21):
remaining Japanese bits could have beenanything. Yeah, I realize that like Japanese, um,
material. Okay. Cause I was like, this is a littlebit of time. So this could have been like arms. So
their problem is that the power in this area isJapan. So they're, they're the hunted, right? So,
(46:42):
um, while they're there though, they find a canoeand then two islanders paddling away. And so
they're like, huh, this could be, this could begood. So Kennedy makes contact with the two
islanders the next morning and he learns theirnames. It is Bakuyu, Gasa and Aroni, Kumana.
(47:03):
Hopefully I pronounced their names right. I'vebeen working so hard at that. And they just happen
to be part of the Islander post-watchers thatworks with the allies. Oh, hey. Right. So Kennedy
carved the message into the skin of a green coconutthat says, quote, Nauru Island commander, native
(47:23):
nose, post it. He can pilot 11 alive, need smallboat Kennedy. Yep. Okay. And I remember this.
Okay. I'm with you. Right. The two Islanders takethe coconut and the next morning they come back
with a letter from the Australian coast watcherscommander, a lieutenant, a Reginald Evans. Now
(47:46):
this letter gives them some instructions. Go withthe Islanders to go Moor Island in the black and
straight. So Kennedy is hidden under pile of palmleaves and they paddle him to meet Evans through
Japanese occupied territory and water. Um, andKennedy's just laying in the bottom of the canoe
(48:07):
under palm fronds. Yeah. Right. When they meetKennedy insists on having the two rescue boats, PT
157 and PT 171. He demands that they rescue himfirst so that he can guide them through the reefs
and the shallows. So he's doing it with a canoe.Like I will take you back. I will pilot you back in,
(48:32):
but there's reefs and their shallows and our boatsneed my help. Right. So on August 7th, Kennedy
signaled to the other boats with three shots fromhis revolver and a fourth from his rifle, which
seems like a little much. I feel like they wouldhave seen eventually that he was there. Lady, but
when he fires from his rifle, he's standing in thecanoe and the back pull. Yeah. Knocks him off
(48:59):
balance and he falls into the water where the PT 57rescue him again. I mean, you say that and I don't
know why, but I imagined him in his tidy whiteies.Yeah, I don't think you're too far from like it
just, it felt right just to be that unhinged. Ithink you're not, you're not terribly wrong from
what I understand. I don't know the full visual,but yeah, that's you're not far from the truth. By
(49:23):
August 8th, seven days after all this has started,his men were safe. And Kennedy was awarded the
Purple Heart and the Navy and Marine Corps medal.He remains the only US president to do so. Now for
funsies in 1961, Evans, the Australian coastwatcher was invited to meet Kennedy at the White
(49:44):
House. For 17 years, Evans had gone without noticebecause Kennedy couldn't read his writing. So he
didn't know how to get ahold of them. Whoa. Now tokeep the, so the 1944 article to keep the coast
watchers involvement in the war secret and likewhat they were doing in the Pacific secret, the
(50:06):
American press invents a one less tenantwin-caught of the New Zealand infantry and that's
who Evans is. But they give him a fake name, a fakeregiment, a fake everything so that it can keep the
secrets of the Pacific, the secrets of thePacific. Kennedy remains friends with the
Islanders for the remainder of their lives,sharing letters, he even invites them to come to
(50:29):
his presidential inauguration. However, theycan't come because of local politics. But that
doesn't stop them from being from town. And thecoconut sat on his desk for his entire presidency.
It also once went to Japan with his daughter whenshe met the wife of the captain of the ship who sunk
(50:50):
JFK's boat. Oh, yeah. And I think that I shouldmention that also in this water that they've been
like trudging through for days, we are dealingwith sharks, barracudas and evidently saltwater
crocodiles and they're giant. Yeah, none of thissounds fun. Yeah, I know. I know. Not even a little
(51:16):
bit interested. Like the only barracuda I'd wantto interact with is, oh, a great. I was like,
absolutely not. Like the sharks were one thing.The barracuda for another. But to discover there
are saltwater crocodiles just chilling out in thePacific. I was like, no, I'm good. I'm so good.
(51:42):
Yeah, but they survived. They made it out. Theymade it back. George Ross's mother was delighted.
I'm sure to find out her son did not perish. Yeah.Now there are those that believe all of this was
Kennedy's fault and could have been avoided and heshouldn't have been awarded the Purple Heart, but
he did in fact display great bravery and greatleadership. So, you know, okay, there you are. I
(52:07):
think the moment you have enough gravitas, enoughcelebrity to your name. Anything you do is going to
be torn apart left, right center. Oh, for sure. Forsure. You know, right? And I never wanted to be
present. I already helped him. Yeah. Yeah. Same.Like, yeah. Right. So, so Daddy Dears had helped
(52:29):
him to this point. So there's those that argue thathe also lobbied to ensure he was awarded these
medals, but again, he didn't have to swim for eighthours to save his mates. And yet he did. So thanks,
Harvard Swim Team. You know, and damned if you dodamned if you don't, you might as well do the best
(52:51):
that you can to your own moral compass. Yeah. And hedid there at that moment. I loved it. Thanks for
telling me the story because like, I think I'dheard it in passing. I was like, Kennedy coconut,
save life check. Remember anything? No. I thoughtit was hilarious, but then, then to realize it
(53:13):
happened during World War two, I was like, no, Ineed to know all of it now because it's, I guess it, I
know so much more about the war in Europe than I dothe war in the Pacific that I was shocked Kennedy
was involved. I mean, to be fair, we are ratherEurocentric. There you have it. It also hit me like
(53:34):
a ton of bricks this morning on my drive to Oracle isthinking about it. Um, we left the fate of the human
race in the hands of 20 somethings and it is nowonder all the world saving movies are teenagers.
I mean, but that's war because once you're oldenough to realize you don't want to be cannon
(53:56):
fodder, you don't feel the desire to rush into thefront line. Yeah, there you have it. Well, if you
want to be cannon fodder and forward this to yourfriends, I mean, I don't, I don't know how do you
transition past that? Um, you know, honestly, we,if you are ready, butter, if you are reviewing, if
(54:20):
you are sharing, like subscribing to thispodcast, that does help us. And so that does help
our listenership. So, you know, share this withsomebody else who is in the butter and coconuts,
but doesn't think this is a cooking podcast. Don'tlie. We're not here for life. And on that note, 449 00:54:40,490 --> we're not here to offer you recipes. No, no, no, no. Goodbye.
Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast.The podcast where two compulsive nut jobs just
want to eat chocolate and tell each other historystories. And I'm out of chocolate. I'm not. I'm
Teresa. And that is host two. That is... I havechocolate and I am Angie. And I will interrupt her
(00:35):
today. And I thank goodness because I've had one ofthose days where I've taken my brain, rung it out,
tried to fill it with knowledge it does not containand pushed it sideways. Here we are. And now it's
sitting in the corner crying while she's carryingon. And you know what? But I realized you took the
(00:58):
entire episode last time and I teased you with agreat... A recent great, a modern great. You sure
did. You ready for the start? Yeah. Did you knowthat last time was our hundred and fiftieth
episode? It was. Mm-hmm. Look at it. I mean, itfeels right to be met and it for 150, I think. I kind
(01:24):
of wish I could have done this for 150, but here wego. This is the great butter and cheese fire of
1991. Fondue? I mean, close enough. But this wassuggested. This is one of those great things about
being on TikTok. A user named Panda Hime07, theysuggested this to me. And so I'm going to tell you
(01:50):
about... Take my sources. I'm going to go startthere. Wisconsin State Farmer. That's the spot.
Right? The Great Butter and Cheese Farmer of 19...Nope. The Great Butter and Cheese Fire of 1991 by
John Onkin. Madison Metropolitan SewerDistrict. They have an article titled Butter
River Cleaning Up Madison's Largest CommercialFire by Amy Stager. So you have a sewer district as a
(02:17):
source and I yelled that for the one time. I hadReddit as a source. Okay, but here's the deal. They
have great information that I trust becausethey're the authority on the subject. Okay, fair.
Oh, I'm watching how it... You damn well shouldbecause I'm going to fight you for it. Well, to be
(02:39):
fair, the one I used Reddit on a source for has noother sources. I know. I mean, look, I'm going to
give you hell to give you hell. I don't know if youknow this about me, but if I just, like, am super
quiet in the corner, check for breathing. I did sayyour brain in the corner crying earlier. But here I
am still running that mouth. You know, at leastyou're consistent. I damn straight. So journey
(03:05):
with me. May 3, 1991, we're in Madison, Wisconsin.There's a four alarm fire that's broken out at the
CSW facility on Cottage Road. It's near Highway 51for those playing nearby. And apparently this...
Not you, Vermont. Dude. This is after a forkliftexperience of battery malfunction. I'm sorry. A
(03:34):
forklift experience of battery malfunction, Isaid? Okay. Now, I didn't know this, but I'm sure
you're well aware. I mean, I'm sure you look this upall the time. CSW is one of the largest providers of
temperature-controlled warehouse storage inWisconsin. In the Madison... Shopping? No, I
(03:55):
didn't know that. I mean, look, I wouldn't be aspressured. You know what? We vacation there. At
the Freration Warehouse in Wisconsin. NiceAirbnb. You know, we rent an RV, take it all the way
across country, sit in the parking lot for a week,marvel at the engineering. I can assure you, if you
(04:22):
ever hear about me being in an RV, it's not me, andI've been taken against my will. Can assure you of
that. These are your safe words? We're RVingacross the country. How amazing. Police, I'm
going to need you to get a lock on this location.Facts. All right. Well, here's what might tempt
(04:49):
you. This location had more than 10 million poundsof government surplus butter, luncheon meat,
cheese, and food products for Oscar Mayer, SwissColony, and many other food processing
facilities from around the state. Governmentcheese. Government cheese. And see, it was
like... But hearing it start with governmentsurplus butter, I was like, you clearly have
(05:16):
surplus syrup. Okay, fair. But like the surplusbit through me, I was like, just... That's an
extraneous word. Yeah, it feels like it was anunnecessary for sure. Like, just this butter.
People are going to use it surplus or not. Now, Ishould tell you that at the time of one of the
(05:43):
articles that I used for this, there's MadisonFire Department Chief Steven Davis. He was still
in Newby with the Madison Fire Department. He'donly been there a couple of years. And when the fire
takes off, he doesn't arrive as part of the initialresponse, but he gets there in time to see the
outside walls of the building collapse and letloose a wave of melted butter that engulfed
(06:08):
everything. I'm not saying this is bad. I'm justsaying this as could I stick a bowl of pasta in
there? I mean, this really sounds like cloudy witha chance of meatballs. Yeah, I mean, like what I'm
hearing is recipe for a great pot of mac and cheese.I mean, look, I'm not saying that this is even more
(06:34):
spectacular than my great whiskey fire, but thisfeels... At least nobody's going to die drinking
the river. Well, actually, I take that. I mean,we're not even very far in the story yet, Angie. How
dare you? Sorry. Sorry. Now if somebody dies,you're going to feel guilty. I mean, it feels so
(06:58):
bad. I'm going to have to read Ms. Starry card.Anybody brand them 40 years later to get a
condolences card from somebody? It's likeHallmark didn't make this card, so I had to break
out the crayons. Sorry. Now Fire Chief StevenDavis says that he saw a river of butter, which
(07:20):
cracks me up so much. There's trucks, ladders, andother equipment in the middle of a sweet cream pond
where five feet of butter collected in the lowspots. And the more water the firefighters use,
the more, quote, gooey stuff flowed out of thebuilding, unquote. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. By around 3
(07:45):
p.m., there's spraying water at this fire at a rateof about 5,000 gallons a minute, and they're
having some issues. Unimaginable. Apparently,the insulation in the walls of this warehouse are
highly flammable. Because of course they are.Uh-huh. And the 50 million pounds of high fat food
(08:09):
products fueling what essentially becomes agiant grease fire. You're having a big... There
isn't one of those kitchen blankets big enough tosolve this problem. No. And apparently there's
high winds that are fanning the flames to adjacentwarehouses. So this could be like a chocolate
(08:37):
meltdown also. Yeah, it depends on what's in thatnext building. Yeah, okay. I'm here for it. Is it
piano storage? Is it cacao? Like, what are... Is itcoconut butter? What are we playing with, you
know? Yeah, I'm here for it. Lieutenant GordonBregren. I butchered that sorry, Madison Fire
(09:02):
Department Lieutenant. He said 10 years after theblaze that when you're reflected back on the size
of the fire, he said a lot of times you can tell howbig a fire is just by what you see coming in the
distance, and you could tell this was going to bepretty good. This part cracks me up because A, hubs
was a trained firefighter. B, I hung out at collegewith a bunch of firefighters because
(09:23):
firefighters and... No explanation needed.Like, look, if you don't get it, if you know you
know. And they just really enjoy being able to puttheir skills to work. Yeah. Most of their calls are
medical calls. And I mean, those aren't as good ashours and hours of work. Yeah, not nearly as fun.
(09:51):
No. Unless it's that cute old lady that keepspretending to fall just so she has to get picked up
by a firefighter. If I was a firefighter and thathappened to me, I would be there every week. You
know, I don't know if I would be. I'd be like Bertha.Grab my ass last time. I had a goose egg. I didn't
know you'd get a goose egg on your butt. Gertrude,can't see yourself. I am going to tell all the
(10:15):
little old ladies in your sewing circle all aboutthis because this is atrocious. That is exactly
the type of firefighter I'd be. I am the age of yourgrandson. This is ridiculous. Come on now,
Bertha. Get it together. Mm-hmm. All right. Canyou look at my granddad? Your literal granddad?
(10:37):
Oh, no. Oh, sorry. You were still on the thing. And Iwas like, doot, doot, doot. Back to the story. Now,
the fire at this point has been going for severalhours. And the foods from the warehouse are oozing
out into the surrounding area and they become thisgiant river of butter. Okay. It's a mixture of
(11:00):
water, melted butter, and other food materialsthat are flowing into low-lying areas near the
scene. Now, they're wading through two to threefeet of butter and then in some areas it's getting
up to five feet deep. Gnarly. This is gross. Andlike our man, Chief Steven Davis, said, I had
(11:25):
butter in places a guy shouldn't have butter by theend of the night. Which this just... Listen, he's a
moisturized king. And he just smells like the badend of a popcorn bucket. Now, at one point while
(11:47):
he's battling the blaze, our moisturized king issent to the roof of the adjacent building where he
and a few others are focusing the hose on this firefor about eight hours. They are in it to win it.
Okay. He finally comes down from the roof at 5.30a.m. the next day. Good Lord. Okay. Like I didn't
(12:12):
think they brought that much water. I'm stillstuck on the fact that I can picture him. He's
marinating in butter. Like just throw some garlicin there. Like... His feet had to just... Mmm.
Yeah. Thoughts and feelings. Mmm-hmm. The nextday, he and his team, they attempt to move the hose
(12:38):
line further between two of the buildings. And hesteps off a loading dock into what he thought was
solid ground, but found himself chest deep andmelted butter. So gross. Just to feel like this is
good and then commit and then just write in... Thisis my life now. Yeah. This is... You know, just
(13:02):
bring me a sandwich. This is the quicksand theywarned me about in the shows. Which we were totally
prepared for growing up and have yet to see it asadults. We're going to be as bad. It is, but
apparently melted butter was an option now. Well,you know, here you go. The fire crews from Madison,
they're on site for days putting out this fire. Itspreads to that second building and then they have
(13:28):
a third alarm that goes off. There's hours later,there's a... The building collapses and the fire
threatened. The facilities, I should have lookedat how to say this, and hydrous ammonia tanks.
Now... Oh my gosh, is this the science tanks thatkeep things from coagulating? Maybe. I should
(13:53):
have looked that up. Okay. But either way, tanks,ammonia, specialized ammonia, I'm just going to
go with that because I can say that out loud and notsound like an idiot. And this spurs an evacuation
of 3,000 residents in the half mile of this fire.3,000 residents in a half mile? It's Madison, it's
crowded. Okay, you know what? In my mind, I waspicturing this like a cute little town. I didn't
(14:19):
even make the connection that we're... Okay,sorry. Burnham Major City? Yeah. Nope, I was
imagining Bodunk Sonora, but in Wisconsin,you're not going to see 3,000 people for miles. You
might get everybody together at a parade. Thathappened. Right. Now, during this fire, you've
got the butter, you've got the food products,they're discharged into this large, concrete
(14:43):
lined, storm water channel that's adjacent tothis factory or warehouse. And this channel
drains directly into Lake Monona. I was going tosay Montana because it's super close to that, but
it's not having the tea, so here we are. So thebutter drains into this... Into this channel, and
(15:05):
the channel that goes directly to the lake. So nowwe're making a crock pot. Now we're taking these
food products and we're introducing them towildlife and fish. Wildlife. Right. Yeah. Well,
those fish are going to have... I mean, okay.Gross. Now, typically you want your butter done in
a certain way, you know? Yeah. I mean, I want my fishcovered in butter, but not like that. Yeah. You
(15:31):
want to do it yourself. Mm-hmm. Free or, you know,right as you're cooking and post-cooking, not
pre-cooking. And not... Oh, I've... Yeah,preferably. Now, the fire department, their job
is to put the fire out, obviously, while trudgingupstream through this butter flood. And it's the
(15:55):
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources'responsibility to tame this butter river and make
sure that it doesn't taint the lakes and streams.It's not as scent as I ever thought I was going to
hear. Tame this butter river. Look, I am here foryou. This story is the gift that keeps giving. I am
(16:15):
equally delighted and disgusted at the same time.Well done. You know what? It doesn't have missing
legs, but it has a butter. Which feels right for aTeresa story. If it doesn't have a missing body
part, butter's probably involved. I've done thebutter crimes. I've... My butter stinkeths.
(16:37):
Yeah, the bad butter rebellion. Yeah. Like, I'mokay with this. I mean, good for you. Surprising as
it may be. Now, I'm so sorry. I'm trying so hard toget it together. Don't, don't please. This only
enlivens everything. The City of Madison and theDepartment of Natural Resources, they use dirt or
(17:03):
fill dirt to create dams in the channel to preventthis oil-rich liquid from reaching the lake,
which seems logical to me. And this is happeningas, because this is 1991, crowds of onlookers, TV
cameras, and everybody are watching theactivities, and the water level behind the dam
continue to rise and to threaten to overtop thedams. I hope what Bedia Commons has a solid news
(17:29):
broadcast on this that we can watch. Emergencyworker Kent Kruger said in a 1991 interview, Six
stories of butter melted and started flowing intothe streets and sewers. We had to take an
in-bloader and put sand on the burning butter.Okay. A few minutes ago, when I said there is not a
(17:53):
kitchen blanket big enough to solve this problem,my first thought was, I wonder if... I wonder if the
next building over is full of flour and we can throwthat at it. I don't think you want to throw flour on
top of a fire. I'm pretty sure that too isflammable. I think, and I could be very wrong on
this, but I remember reading there is oneparticular kitchen fire that like flour or sand is
(18:16):
what you want to throw on it, but I can assure you itis not a grease fire. So butter is not the one.
Butter is not the one for a grease fire. Let'sjust... You know what? If you're in the middle of a
fire and you're listening to this podcast, turnthe podcast off. We're not here to help you. Come
back to us when you're safe. We're going to be thewarm blanket and the hug. We are not here to help.
(18:42):
No, never. But yeah, mark yourself safe from ourpodcast and your butter fire. Yes. Yeah. Now
around 8 p.m. the city contacted the district toask if the butter liquid mix filling the
stormwater channel could be placed in thesanitary sewer system. District director of
operations and maintenance, a man named Paul NEM,took the call from home Friday night from the city
(19:10):
of Madison director of public works, Gary Nelson,just as the local CBS station broke regularly
scheduled programming because they're watchingthe show. Dallas with news and visuals of the flame
shooting out of the warehouse. The 90s were wild,man. I didn't realize how insane they were because
(19:32):
I don't remember this. No, I was a kid. Yeah. No. Myhusband doesn't remember this. His family is from
Wisconsin. He was in SCAR at the time. He seemedlike me. Like you'd think that they would know
this. Yeah. No one remembers this. It feels likesomething you don't forget. You should like, I
wouldn't forget a river of butter. Are you kiddingme? Yeah. No. Okay. So as this is happening,
(19:59):
district personnel immediately go to the scene ofthe fire. So this is like the health and safety
peeps, not the fire department. They've got staffcoordinated with city personnel and they're
beginning to pump the melted liquid into thesanitary sewer system. They're offloading all of
this butter and as everybody else is trying tofight, oh, they're also trying to fight the grease
from clogging the lines that they're using to pumpout all the butter. Right. Okay. That makes sense.
(20:24):
It makes a ton of sense. We don't get thosenotifications around Thanksgiving for nothing.
Yeah. Maybe this is why. They're going to hit likeearly May if you're in Wisconsin and December and
every other state. Mm-hmm. Now, by the end of May4th, more than 3 million gallons of melted butter
(20:45):
and fire runoff had been pumped into the sanitarysewer. By May 5th, the rains came and the rising
water levels threatened to send the butter floodover the last dam into the Stark Weather Creek. It
gets better and better and better and better. TheDepartment of Natural Resources had to quickly
(21:10):
build another two dams before noon. That'simpressive. They got that done, but they either be
through this all the way through. Because I feellike, okay, the county, I live in, it would take six
months for the first dam to even be approved. Ithink, you know, when you're in an emergency
situation like this, it kind of speeds throughbureaucracy. It greases the channels of
(21:33):
bureaucracy, if you will. Good job. I do what I can,you know. Oh, I've died. Okay. By May 6th, another
11 million gallons had been pumped into thesanitary sewer. Gross. The fire is now under
control, but something had to be done about all thecongealed butter that had accumulated in the two
(21:58):
ponds. Just light it on fire in the pond. Oh, yes,that doesn't work. Okay. You're trying to just
come up with additional ecological disasters.Yeah, my initial thought was if you light it on fire
in the pond where it's at, like, to be processed,that would solve the problem. But that's how we got
(22:21):
here in the first place. I don't see it. I don't seeit. So the DNR, the Department of Natural
Resources, they said the U.S. Department ofAgriculture brought in salvage contractors to
remove the food waste. The few following weeks arededicated cleaning up. Huge piles of meat and
rubble are being hauled off to the Dane Countylandfill, staying ahead of rain and heat that
(22:47):
re-melted the congealed butter as they graduallypumped the butter out of the tank. And then they put
it into containment ponds. That's so gross.According to the state's DNR records, the fire
resulted in the release of a thousand pounds ofthat ammonia mixture, 5,000 pounds of food
products, including hams, hot dogs, bakeryitems, and cranberries. Okay. The cranberries,
(23:13):
they snuck in there. You're dead. Didn't see thatone coming. You know you gotta get your healthy
food, too. Yeah, you gotta just sneak it in there.There were 12,500 tons of dairy products, mostly
butter and cheese. And the archive estimates thelosses at 7.5 million in property damages and 70
(23:34):
million in contents. So the surplus is in thenegative now? Yeah, it's no longer a surplus.
Chuck's. And that blaze took eight days to putcompletely out. That is insane. Yep. Now, after
(23:59):
two weeks after that fire broke out, theDepartment of Natural Resources said efforts to
clear the spoiling meat products and to keep themelted butter out of the waterways was a success.
Well, that's good. Yeah, it's a success. Now, theysaid that they'd been monitoring the waterways
and very few fish died after the fire. And they saythat this is remarkable because this butter river
(24:24):
was so substantial. It appeared so quickly. Andthe crews had barely any time to assemble the
materials and build embankments. Shocking. Thesign outside of that facility that has this polar
bear, that remains. And the cleanup costapproximately, you know, just over a half million
(24:46):
dollars. And this was largely covered by CSW and agrant from the USDA. And in their attempt to clean
up all the butter, the fire department is forced tothrow away nearly all of the firefighter gear that
was used. Okay, I was going to ask. How did you getthat out of their uniforms? I think you give up.
(25:13):
Just step one, give up. Davis. Chuck it. Chuck it inthe bin. We don't need it anymore. Yeah. Well,
there's something else that just hearssomething. This is when they got hubs. This made
him feel gross. Davis is still new to the job at thispoint. He got stuck with steam cleaning the hoses
that weren't completely destroyed by the butterimmersion. And he described the cumulative
(25:35):
effect as a rotten smell, one that lasted for yearsand years at the fire station. There is no amount of
bleach that can get that out then, huh?Apparently. Gross. The CSW warehouse has been
rebuilt and any trace of the once mighty butterriver that once flowed through the area has
(25:57):
vanished. I hope at no point while you were writingthese notes you expected me to take any part of this
story series. Nobody died. That's a bonus. Right?That's a real bonus. Yeah. But that is the story of
the Madison Butterfire. Or the Great Butterfireof 91. I would like to know if it implies there was
(26:24):
like a great Butterfire of 1643. I'm unclear. Butwe have a recent great. So this is a win. A win is a
win, Angie. A win is a win and an absurd win. It couldhave been the Great Anything. And here you are
working the Great Butterfire. I couldn't be moreimpressed. You're welcome. Yeah. I don't know
(26:53):
where my notes are. You're like, I am soflabbergasted that I refuse to look. My flabbers
have been gassed. Okay, I got them. I didn't knowwhere my notes are. I don't know where my notes are.
Oh, they're right here. I thought that I was goingto have to open another tab, but I didn't. You'd be
(27:21):
shocked to learn that I have a World War II story. Ohwow, look at you. But I bet you'd be more shocked to
learn that my last World War II story was all the wayback in September. I think enough time has passed
for me to be back on my crap again. This feels weird.I know I had to look. Like, for the two of us who can't
(27:47):
get off on who just, we cannot leave this wellenough alone, like I'm actually looking and yeah,
no, you're right. This feels weird. Fix it.Doesn't it? Fix it. I will trust I'm going to fix it.
This story smacked me in the face and I am sodelighted to share it with you. Have you ever heard
(28:15):
about the time a coconut saved JFK's life? Yes, butI have not retained the details. Like I've heard
those weird bits. Fabulous. So my sources are anarticle from The Hill by Barbara A. Perry from 22.
(28:38):
Why President JFK kept a coconut husk on his desk?This is from the, like an Australian university
like content education site. Okay. The HarvardCrimson, Harvard coaches recall Kennedy as a
frail and mediocre athlete. A New Yorker articlefrom World War II by John Hersey from June 10th of
(29:07):
1944. And then just to confirm a fact, the HubHistory Podcast, Boston History Podcast, I have
not read it, heard it. I just read the fact. Theyhave a little blurb on JFK and his PT boat. But okay,
so here's the gist. There's also a Smithsonianarticle, but I didn't really use a ton of that.
(29:28):
Okay. There is a great magazine called Coffee orDie. And that's where the bulk of my story comes
from. It's written in August of 21 by Matt Fredisand it's delightful. I got to tell you that I never
once thought about JFK being alive during WorldWar II, let alone serving during World War II.
(29:51):
Yeah. That's so good for me. I feel like I knew that.I never even thought about it. So when I was like,
wait a minute, no, those are two very separate,like, those are very different timelines. He did
not exist at that time. That's not true. It's a lieand I was wrong. He just manifested at 35 and
decided the presidency is for me. I'm going for it.You can't stop me. Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah.
(30:15):
Okay. So for funsies, John F. Kennedy is born May of1917, just outside of Boston, obviously, to a
prosperous family. None of this comes as asurprise, so we're going to fast forward a little
bit. It's 1940 and as a student at Harvard, hewrites his thesis paper regarding the
appeasement in Munich. Now, this is obviouslyabout the negotiations of the then Munich
(30:40):
Agreement, which I mentioned before in a couple ofepisodes, but specifically, Episode 135, a
Renaissance garden gnome about Joseph Mincikputting a little Lindsay into our world.
Kennedy's thesis paper with the help of his fatherand a few other men becomes the book called Why
England Fletch, which I was like, whoa, that'scool. I didn't know that was a thing either because
(31:05):
why would I? I didn't even know he was alive duringWorld War I. I never thought about it or during
World War II. Never even thought about it. So herewe are. It is worth mentioning that Kennedy Sr. was
the US ambassador to the United Kingdom from 38 to40. Yep. And he supports then Prime Minister
Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement.This stance doesn't go over well for him and proves
(31:27):
disastrous for the rest of his political goals tothe point of him being removed as the ambassador.
JFK would go against the support for theappeasement, especially since he had personally
witnessed the Luftwaffe's early bombings ofBritain. In fact, proceeds from the 80,000 copies
sold, the ones that sold in the UK went to the city ofPlymouth to help rebuild that with bombings,
(31:53):
which I think is a really cool fact. That is cool.The proceeds from the US sales bought Kennedy a
Buick convertible. Man of few worlds, I suppose.That's a very kind way to put it. Yeah. OK. So
(32:13):
Kennedy at this point, he's a young man and he isbelieving more and more that there needs to be an
Anglo-American alliance to fight against theReich. And he becomes increasingly more
supportive of US intervention in World War Two.Now, I think it's really interesting that while
him and his dad do not agree on this at all, his dadfully supports his stance on it and helps him get
(32:39):
the book, like his thesis turned into a book, whichI thought was pretty cool, like Dad Muth, right?
Now, you've got to tell me he had to be like, thisline, are you really sure about this line? This
line's a bit hard to say. I'm 100% sure that's how itwent. But I do think it is at least we get a little
glimpse of their relationship there, right?Like, I don't have to agree with you, but I'm going
(33:02):
to help you succeed. Now, Kennedy plans. I said,did you just? No, I mean, I was pointing at you like
you got it. And then I was like, you got quiet. Areyou breaking up? Are you still there? I know. I
thought you were telling me, like, hold on. Sorry.Okay. Now, Kennedy, he plans to attend Yale Law
(33:26):
School when he's done with Harvard, but he cancelsthose plans when it becomes all the more clear that
the Americans are going to enter the war. And in1940, Kennedy tries to enter the Army's Officer
Canada at school, but again, he has fragilehealth, which means he could have avoided
conscription from every part of the war, or at thevery least, his family's ties could have gotten
(33:51):
him a cush desk job. Oh, his family ties could haveeasily protected him, right? However, instead of
using those family ties for protection, he usesthem to get the director of the Office of Naval
Intelligence to Naval Intelligence to help himjoin the US Naval Reserve and is commissioned as an
(34:13):
ensign on October 26th in 1941, and he joins theOffice of Naval Intelligence in DC. But then in 42,
to quote the Hill, instead, he enlisted in the Navyjust prior to Pearl Harbor and used his family
connections to engineer an assignment in theSouth Pacific War against Japan as a patrol
(34:34):
torpedo boat skipper. So, OK, this is likeweaponized nepotism. I mean, yeah, brilliant.
His health is so bad, he should have beendisqualified from any form of active duty. But
(34:54):
Kennedy Sr. provides doctored medical recordsthat his son's health, like for his son's life, and
convinces PT boat officers that having Kennedy intheir ranks would be good for publicity for the
Navy, and it works. So he provides false documentsand is like, yeah, PR campaign, the Navy's going to
love having my son around. Wow, I really wish,like, I've thought that he'd have done everything
(35:20):
he could have to kept his son safe as opposed tolike, hey, harm's way, here you go, I forged your
paperwork to put my fragile little boy right on thefront lines. Pretty much. Now, he is assigned to
the Panama Canal and they're not really seeing anyaction, and he then uses those connections again
by reaching out to Senator David Walsh fromMassachusetts, who pulls strings to get Kennedy
(35:45):
reassigned to the South Pacific where war isactually happening. So that's kind of how JFK ends
up in the South Pacific. And the whole time, unlikeat any point, dad could have told you, no, sit down.
Every time dad was like, let me make a phone call foryou. So April of 1943, Kennedy is assigned to this
(36:06):
motor torpedo squadron number two. On April 24,Kennedy takes command of PT 109, which is a wooden
hull patrol boat that's based at a TouloghiIsland, which is in the Solomon's. Okay. By August
1, their campaign, it's called the New Georgiacampaign. Kennedy's commander hit a man called
(36:28):
Promise G. Warfield, which honestly seems such anapt name for a man in battle. You charge or you
ascribe so much to the last names of people. Yes.Like names. This guy has the last name of a putz. He
doesn't need to be Admiral. Just down the vote ofhim immediately. Go. Crappy name. You're out.
(36:48):
Names mean a ton to me. So Warfield gets intel thatsomething called the Tokyo Express is due to
arrive in their area. Very shortly. What is theTokyo Express? You might ask. It is for Japanese
destroyers and float planes carrying food andsupplies as well as 900 Japanese soldiers.
(37:13):
They're on their way to the Villa PlantationGarrison, which is on the southern tip of the
Solomon Islands. So Kennedy, his boat and 14 otherpatrol boats are out looking for this convoy,
which seems like a lot if you're trying to bestealth. Right? Yeah. But like maybe stealth
isn't their goal here. Matt Fratis writing for acoffee or diet magazine, writes that it is a
(37:40):
moonless and starless night in the blackedstrait, which is south of the Solomon Islands
where our boys are situated and they are runningsilent to avoid detection. When all of a sudden
Kennedy spots the Tokyo Express and the patrolintercepts three battleships and one escort. The
(38:03):
patrol fires 30 torpedoes and not a single one hitsits target. Hello, Kam Chaka. Is this you? You're
like a stormtrooper. Are you for real? The patrolthen gets orders to return to base. However, the PT
109, which is Kennedy's and three other boats forma line across the straight, which offers cover to
(38:29):
the others to retreat. One of the PT boats has radargoing and it is the only one and it takes off after
the Japanese target, which we the other threeboats literally flying blind. Now, their lack of
radar is not the only problem our boys have. Theskippers know full well that the phosphorescent
(38:51):
plankton in these wonderfully warm tropicalwaters can easily turn their wakes into glowing
targets from the air. Oh, joy. So. The beauty ofnature. Yeah. So these boats are chugging on only
one of their three engines to try and turn them tokeep the water calm. It's about two 30 in the
(39:14):
morning when a shape looms into view and it'straveling fast, like 40 knots or roughly 46 miles
an hour. It's on course to take out the PT 109.Initially, Kennedy and his 13 other men think it's
another PT boat and that it's really not until theblack hole of the Japanese destroyer. I'm going to
(39:34):
butcher this. Amigurie like meets them that theyrealized they have they have made a critical
error. Kennedy tries his best to swing the PT 109right and hopes he'll be able to bring the
torpedoes in line to make a shot, but there's notenough time. And in roughly 10 seconds, the
Japanese destroyer rams the PT boat literally inhalf because it's got a wooden hole. Yeah. Oh, not
(40:03):
great. Right. Kennedy is thrown off his feet andjust misses being a part of the very damaged
cockpit. Two of his sailors are killed instantlyand the rest are of course left like flailing in the
water, right? The Japanese boat just steams awayand it is so much bigger than the PT boat that its
(40:23):
wake alone puts out the flames of the PT 109. Oh,that's a massive wake. Yeah. How the hell you
weren't able to tell the boats apart? Baffles mybrain. But anyway, Kennedy and five of his men are
clinging to like this little floating section oftheir boat and he immediately starts calling out
(40:44):
for the rest of the survivors. He gets like sixreplies. He finds his gunner mate, Charles
Harris, badly wounded and the motor machine ismade Patrick McMahon had suffered from burn
injuries when the PT boat's fuel tank explodes.No, thank you. We can't just like have one
accident. No, no, we've got to have a myriad ofthings. There has to be a cascading effect. It's
(41:08):
not cinematic enough. It's not butter. I mean,look, the butter has to try to kick off the ammonia
tanks, which needs us to evacuate the residentswho are being the looky loo. Exactly. Exactly. So
they're only about a hundred yards from whatremains of their boat, but it takes Kennedy three
hours to rescue the two men in the dark because it'sdark. Yeah. Once everyone has collected a brief
(41:34):
discussion is held about what to do next. Kennedysaid later, quote, there's nothing in the book
about a situation like this. A lot of you men havefamilies and some of you have children. What do you
want to do? I have nothing to lose. A decision ismade that all 11 of the survivors would leave the
wreck and sinking boat and swim to an island that'sjust about three and a half miles away. Just a
(42:00):
measly, you know, just says the man who's allergicto cardio. Pretty much. This island, it is called
Plum Island. But fun fact, this is an absolutelymanageable fee for Kennedy as he had been on
Harvard swim team. Oh, OK, so that that he could do.Yeah. Now, while he wasn't a top as top notch as some
(42:23):
of the other swimmers, he was on the freshman teamthat Harvard considered to be their best ever. And
evidently, like beating Yale is a big deal. So likeswimming, he's got that he can do that. But like
other sports, that absolutely not. And he's frailand he can't breathe and all the things, right? But
there's another problem with what you'rehearing. Yeah. Nickman can't swim. And I'm
(42:48):
assuming that's because of his injuries. SoKennedy takes Nickman's belt or like the belt from
his life jacket. It's described different waysand different sources and sticks it between his
teeth and toes him all three and a half miles. Sohe's swimming for himself and for another day. And
(43:09):
basically being Fido holding this man's belt inhis teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Why? My mouth hurts
already. And I'm not holding another man's life inmy mouth. Literally. Two of the others also
(43:30):
couldn't swim, but they were either pushed orpulled along by those that could on like bits of
wreckage, right? Kennedy, he arrives to theisland first, but he is of course exhausted. So
Nickman is able to help him get to shore like theywork together to get to shore. But don't worry,
they're not done swimming because they get a bitspooked when they see a Japanese barge go by. And
(43:55):
it's decided that Kennedy is going to swim down toFerguson Passage, which is supposed to be a place
that's frequented by the American PT boats. To getthere, he has to cross coral reefs, which like and
whatnot. And after, I don't know, another hour orso of swimming, he realizes their rescue is not
(44:18):
coming, like not tonight anyways. So he swims.Like he's making the swim back and that swim alone
almost takes him out. Because you have to figurehe's been in the water now for like seven or eight
hours, swimming, right? And he hasn't swam likethis. This one back here. Right. The swim backs got
(44:42):
this super rough current and it forces him to stopoff at an island southeast. Um, his, his men call
the island Leo Rava. So for the next like couple ofdays, him and the other survivors that can swim are
swimming back and forth to surrounding islands,looking for fresh water and food, like fresh
(45:03):
coconut, if you will, like something to eat andsomething to drink. And then Kennedy and Ensign
George Ross, they go exploring Nauru Island,which is the last island in the chain, but it
overlooks the Ferguson pass. So they're kind oflike, okay, maybe if we can see what's going on from
there. Now, meanwhile, back on their, like wherethey're, or the rest of their navy is, they're
(45:30):
assuming the ship is lost and they've died. Sothey've helped funeral services for the guys. And
someone writes George Ross's mama letter,talking about what a great man George Ross was and
how he was the most, um, like he died for a cause he,he most aptly believed in and all the things, but
like they're, they're alive and kicking. They'rejust 65 miles to the south and can't get radio. I
(45:57):
mean, I honestly, I feel for these guys. They'rejust right. Like, yeah, they're having a day. So
Kydian and Ross, Kennedy and Ross, they go explorethis island. It's the last island in the chain,
like I said, but it's overlooking Ferguson past.And while they're there, they find some
remaining, like leftover Japanese bits,including some pins of candy. I said they're
(46:21):
remaining Japanese bits could have beenanything. Yeah, I realize that like Japanese, um,
material. Okay. Cause I was like, this is a littlebit of time. So this could have been like arms. So
their problem is that the power in this area isJapan. So they're, they're the hunted, right? So,
(46:42):
um, while they're there though, they find a canoeand then two islanders paddling away. And so
they're like, huh, this could be, this could begood. So Kennedy makes contact with the two
islanders the next morning and he learns theirnames. It is Bakuyu, Gasa and Aroni, Kumana.
(47:03):
Hopefully I pronounced their names right. I'vebeen working so hard at that. And they just happen
to be part of the Islander post-watchers thatworks with the allies. Oh, hey. Right. So Kennedy
carved the message into the skin of a green coconutthat says, quote, Nauru Island commander, native
(47:23):
nose, post it. He can pilot 11 alive, need smallboat Kennedy. Yep. Okay. And I remember this.
Okay. I'm with you. Right. The two Islanders takethe coconut and the next morning they come back
with a letter from the Australian coast watcherscommander, a lieutenant, a Reginald Evans. Now
(47:46):
this letter gives them some instructions. Go withthe Islanders to go Moor Island in the black and
straight. So Kennedy is hidden under pile of palmleaves and they paddle him to meet Evans through
Japanese occupied territory and water. Um, andKennedy's just laying in the bottom of the canoe
(48:07):
under palm fronds. Yeah. Right. When they meetKennedy insists on having the two rescue boats, PT
157 and PT 171. He demands that they rescue himfirst so that he can guide them through the reefs
and the shallows. So he's doing it with a canoe.Like I will take you back. I will pilot you back in,
(48:32):
but there's reefs and their shallows and our boatsneed my help. Right. So on August 7th, Kennedy
signaled to the other boats with three shots fromhis revolver and a fourth from his rifle, which
seems like a little much. I feel like they wouldhave seen eventually that he was there. Lady, but
when he fires from his rifle, he's standing in thecanoe and the back pull. Yeah. Knocks him off
(48:59):
balance and he falls into the water where the PT 57rescue him again. I mean, you say that and I don't
know why, but I imagined him in his tidy whiteies.Yeah, I don't think you're too far from like it
just, it felt right just to be that unhinged. Ithink you're not, you're not terribly wrong from
what I understand. I don't know the full visual,but yeah, that's you're not far from the truth. By
(49:23):
August 8th, seven days after all this has started,his men were safe. And Kennedy was awarded the
Purple Heart and the Navy and Marine Corps medal.He remains the only US president to do so. Now for
funsies in 1961, Evans, the Australian coastwatcher was invited to meet Kennedy at the White
(49:44):
House. For 17 years, Evans had gone without noticebecause Kennedy couldn't read his writing. So he
didn't know how to get ahold of them. Whoa. Now tokeep the, so the 1944 article to keep the coast
watchers involvement in the war secret and likewhat they were doing in the Pacific secret, the
(50:06):
American press invents a one less tenantwin-caught of the New Zealand infantry and that's
who Evans is. But they give him a fake name, a fakeregiment, a fake everything so that it can keep the
secrets of the Pacific, the secrets of thePacific. Kennedy remains friends with the
Islanders for the remainder of their lives,sharing letters, he even invites them to come to
(50:29):
his presidential inauguration. However, theycan't come because of local politics. But that
doesn't stop them from being from town. And thecoconut sat on his desk for his entire presidency.
It also once went to Japan with his daughter whenshe met the wife of the captain of the ship who sunk
(50:50):
JFK's boat. Oh, yeah. And I think that I shouldmention that also in this water that they've been
like trudging through for days, we are dealingwith sharks, barracudas and evidently saltwater
crocodiles and they're giant. Yeah, none of thissounds fun. Yeah, I know. I know. Not even a little
(51:16):
bit interested. Like the only barracuda I'd wantto interact with is, oh, a great. I was like,
absolutely not. Like the sharks were one thing.The barracuda for another. But to discover there
are saltwater crocodiles just chilling out in thePacific. I was like, no, I'm good. I'm so good.
(51:42):
Yeah, but they survived. They made it out. Theymade it back. George Ross's mother was delighted.
I'm sure to find out her son did not perish. Yeah.Now there are those that believe all of this was
Kennedy's fault and could have been avoided and heshouldn't have been awarded the Purple Heart, but
he did in fact display great bravery and greatleadership. So, you know, okay, there you are. I
(52:07):
think the moment you have enough gravitas, enoughcelebrity to your name. Anything you do is going to
be torn apart left, right center. Oh, for sure. Forsure. You know, right? And I never wanted to be
present. I already helped him. Yeah. Yeah. Same.Like, yeah. Right. So, so Daddy Dears had helped
(52:29):
him to this point. So there's those that argue thathe also lobbied to ensure he was awarded these
medals, but again, he didn't have to swim for eighthours to save his mates. And yet he did. So thanks,
Harvard Swim Team. You know, and damned if you dodamned if you don't, you might as well do the best
(52:51):
that you can to your own moral compass. Yeah. And hedid there at that moment. I loved it. Thanks for
telling me the story because like, I think I'dheard it in passing. I was like, Kennedy coconut,
save life check. Remember anything? No. I thoughtit was hilarious, but then, then to realize it
(53:13):
happened during World War two, I was like, no, Ineed to know all of it now because it's, I guess it, I
know so much more about the war in Europe than I dothe war in the Pacific that I was shocked Kennedy
was involved. I mean, to be fair, we are ratherEurocentric. There you have it. It also hit me like
(53:34):
a ton of bricks this morning on my drive to Oracle isthinking about it. Um, we left the fate of the human
race in the hands of 20 somethings and it is nowonder all the world saving movies are teenagers.
I mean, but that's war because once you're oldenough to realize you don't want to be cannon
(53:56):
fodder, you don't feel the desire to rush into thefront line. Yeah, there you have it. Well, if you
want to be cannon fodder and forward this to yourfriends, I mean, I don't, I don't know how do you
transition past that? Um, you know, honestly, we,if you are ready, butter, if you are reviewing, if
(54:20):
you are sharing, like subscribing to thispodcast, that does help us. And so that does help
our listenership. So, you know, share this withsomebody else who is in the butter and coconuts,
but doesn't think this is a cooking podcast. Don'tlie. We're not here for life. And on that note, 449 00:54:40,490 --> we're not here to offer you recipes. No, no, no, no. Goodbye.
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