December 19, 2025 • 60 mins
First off, did you know there is a black market for luxury cheeses? Angie shatters Theresa’s understanding of things when she shares the “Grate Cheese Heist of 2024.” Listen to how a massive amount of artisanal cheese is stolen and unaccounted for.
Then Theresa shifts gears and shares the WWII story of Agent Zigzag. This British citizen, Eddie Chapman, moves from criminal to German spy to British double-agent. There are love affairs, blowing up factories, and lies. This story has it all.
This episode pairs well with:
The great butter and cheese fire of 1991
Great Maple Syrup Heist
The SAS raid no one knew about
Odette Samson
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast.The podcast were two compulsive, absolute
unhinged maniacs without knives. Join forces andtell each other history stories we've only
recently learned. I'm host one. I'm Teresa andthat's... I'm Angie. I have a string cheese and I'm
(00:32):
host two. Yeah, could you wait, Edly, until afteryour intro before you inject cheese into your
mouth? I can't. It's part of the show. I'm glad thisis an audio podcast and you've introduced eating.
Ha ha! Aren't you so excited? I can't wait for thisnext rash of reviews because they will be a rash.
(00:54):
Well... Yeah. Good news is good news...or what isthat? Good...any publicity is good publicity?
Sure, it is now. It is now. I believe I went firstlast week when we covered the Great Madison Butter
Fire of 1991. Yeah, you did. I just checked. No, I'mgoing to go back to doing some needlework and
(01:21):
listening to you regale me with whatever it is youchoose to tell me. I'm just asking ahead of time. Do
you need a palette cleanser? Good question. No, Idon't actually. This time I am pretty stinking
good. Okay, well, I'm... I am so excited to tell youmy story. Okay. I'm going to come out the gate with a
(01:52):
quote from Scotland Yard and then I will tell you mysources. I know that we're on different centuries
because of the conversation we had in textyesterday, but I do have Scotland Yard in mind as
well. That is awesome. I'm so excited. Are youready for my quote? Good. Never mind. Okay. On
(02:15):
Monday, this is the quote from Scotland Yard. OnMonday, the 21st of October, we received a report
of the theft of a large quantity of cheese from amanufacturer based in Southwark. Inquiries are
ongoing into the circumstances. This is a recentquote. From 24. Oh, from 2024. My sources. Okay.
(02:39):
63-year-old man arrested in UK, cheese heist, NPRby Rachel Trisman and Juliana Kim. This is
November of 2024. And just for the headline, thegreat cheese robbery. Man arrested after 24 times
(02:59):
of cheese, totaling $390,000 that's stolen inLondon by Gabriella Rudy from October 24.
Question. Interrupting cow question. Go. Did youchoose this story because you're like, I, what
great cheese events occurred? So this has been onmy list probably since April when I heard about the
(03:28):
cheese heist and was laughing so hard last weekwhen you were talking about the cheese fire.
Because you realized that I could have easilyjumped in and taken the cheese heist from you.
Easily. And I was like, I got, I got to go. But then Ilaughed even harder when I realized we were
discussing how there's not enough greatsanymore. So I am giving you the great cheese
(03:54):
robbery. However, it is not G-R-E-A-T. It isG-R-A-T-E because again, we have a sense of humor
and so is the press. He great cheese robbery of 24.My other, my other sources are the Neil's Yard
Heist when luxury cheese is being targeted bycriminals. That is from the BBC. It is also from
(04:18):
November of 24. And an Al Jazeera article by DwayneOxford October 24. The great cheese heist who
stole $390,000 of cheese. All right. There is alsoa really delightful article in here from the Dairy
Heard by Taylor Leach, which was just out in Augustof this year. And apparently the Dairy Heard is
(04:42):
like the foremost authority on dairy informationcoming out of the UK. Okay. So you heard it here. I
was like, okay, I didn't, I didn't know. I didn'tknow those things. Okay. So this is the 2024 UK
theft of tens of tons of Premier cheese, whichhappened to be a very wonderfully sophisticated
(05:07):
scam. So basically here's the story sometimebetween June and July of 2024, a dairy farmer
called Patrick Holden. He gets an email from apurchaser for this French supermarket chain. And
this guy wants to buy 22 tons of his half or cheese.This happens to be the cheese that Holden
(05:29):
specializes in. Like this is his jam, right? Thisis a ward winning cloth bound artisan cheese that
comes sealed in a layer of lard that has been agedfor 18 months. This cheese is so special that it
comes with like its own, like its own serialnumber. A quick Google search basically
(05:50):
describes the tags that are attached to thesecheeses as quote, cheese tags for our artisanal
wheels, our Artisanal identifiers. Yeah.Artisanal wheels are crucial identifiers acting
like ID cards that track the production like datebatch facility for cheese makers. They are often
(06:11):
used using food safe casein labels that stick tothe rind and then or their printed paper or plastic
tags with all the batch number info on them. That'slike just attached to the wheel of cheese. Browne
Percival, who is a buyer at Neal's Dairy who I'llmention again in just a few minutes says this
(06:31):
cheese is quote, one of the most special cheesesbeing made in the UK. And I just think that it's
hilarious that there's like a conversation aboutthis. Now for Holden, the cheese man, this is a big
deal. This is the biggest order he has everreceived. To the point that Holden remembers
(06:53):
thinking, you know, because this ordersupposedly comes from France, his thought is
quote, finally people on the continent areappreciating what we do. And I would just like to
take a second to acknowledge the fact that theEnglish still call the mainland the continent.
Now, but see, that makes sense to me. You know what Imean? It does. I just never really thought about it
(07:13):
before like you hear about it in like doubt and abbylike we should take it to the continent. But like, I
didn't realize we're still saying that this feelsweird to me because this would be like the French
calling me and saying, Hey, that bubble wine thatyou make, we want to import a bad of it. Like, but you
want my stuff in the land of your stuff? Yeah. Okay.And I think that's kind of how Holden's feeling
(07:38):
about it. But he's also like, wow, they're reallyrecognizing what our specialties are here.
That's great. Now, an order this big is madethrough Neil's dairy yard or Neil's yard dairy,
which is quote, an upmarket cheese seller andwholesaler. Now, Neil's yard collects these
specialty cheeses throughout the summer sincethe orders placed. And I should say that it wasn't
(08:03):
just the half for cheese. It was several specialtycheeses. There's Westcomb cheddar, pitchfork
cheddar, and of course, then the half for it. Now,all of these, you just said that like, of course, of
course, all of these, they are special. As Imentioned before, they come from small batch
enterprise like the Holden family. And besideshim, there are two other dairy farmers that this
(08:28):
prize will call as being sourced from. So it's ahuge order. And it's all three of the dairy farmers
that are being sourced from. This is like thebiggest order they've ever had and also the most
crippling order they could have because in orderto fulfill this order, they're taking out their
(08:50):
entire stock because of how long it takes to createto produce this cheese. Right? So like it's a
thing. So according to the BBC, the first batch ofhalf for it arrived at its London base in
September. It takes up one square meter on a palletbut represents two years of effort and had the
wholesale value of 35,000 pounds or $46,000 incheese. In total, the amount of cheese that's
(09:20):
requested is between 20 and 22 tons, which equalsout to be about 24 U.S. tons. I didn't realize that
tons were a difference but they are. Yeah, I mean,we're American. We've got to do everything.
Right. Of course we do. So in total, that's roughlybetween that cheese, that tonnage of cheese is
going to be about 300,000 pounds, which is like$395,000. So it's a lot of cheese money. By October
(09:51):
14th, they've collected all the cheese and it'sready to leave Neil's Dairy Yard. It's all packed
up. It's taken by courier to a depot and then gone.Nothing. It's vanished and they don't know where
it went. Not a clue. You would be shocked to learnthat there is no real order and by October 21st,
(10:12):
payment has unsurprisingly not showed up becauseof course it won't. Okay, but they... Okay, small
problem. Go. Typically, you get an order, you sayhalf down, half at fulfillment. You would think
(10:32):
that because I thought that too. And in one of thesources, I don't quote it, but in one of the
sources, they talk about how in the cheese world,there is a lot of trust and faith put in each other.
So I feel like they were never... The thought ofeven ever being duped was never in their mind
because the supplier that this individual calledfrom is one of the most renowned in Europe. So why
(10:58):
wouldn't they be trusted? So I don't think a halfdown, half on delivery thing ever even went
through their mind. However, I'm sure it does now.Right? So the buyer that made the request for all
the cheese that plays such a large order is ofcourse a fake, a fraud, a phony, right? All of the
(11:19):
things. A scam artist, a con artist. I'm trying toget all the words. You left a couple. I'm sure
there's more, right? A rake, if you will. Now,since the payment hasn't arrived, Neil's yard has
to report the theft of 10s of Cheddar. Or morespecifically, this is around 950 wheels of cheese
(11:44):
to Scotland Yard. So they are reporting away. Letme, for some context, according to the BBC, this
amount of cheese is roughly the weight of fourfull-sized elephants. This is proof Americans
will measure anything. And the BBC knows it. Sothey're like, yep, we got to tell them what it is in
elephants. I respect the BBC more and more. Me too.I was like, yes, thank you for that. We needed to
(12:10):
know exactly how many elephants of cheese this is.So on October 22, Neil's Dairy Yard comes out and
makes a statement to the public noting that theywere, quote, a victim of a sophisticated fraud. So
the statement goes on. That's just trust. Sorry,sorry. Carry on. The statement goes on to say, the
(12:32):
high monetary value of these cheeses likely madethem a particular target for the thieves. The
company is now taking steps to ensure both itsfinancial stability and the continued
development of the British Artisan and Cheesesector. Now, Neil's Yards then post the following
comments to their Instagram feed because theyhave one. Of course they do. The quote says, Neil's
(12:55):
Yard Dairy has been a victim of a theft resulting inthe loss of over 22 tons or 24 tons if you're an
American of clothed on cheddar. Over 950 wheels ofhalf-eared Westcomb and Pitchfork Cheddar were
delivered before the fraud was discovered.Despite the significant financial blow, we have
honored our commitment to the small-scalesuppliers and paid all three Artisan
(13:16):
cheesemakers in full. How nice of them. One ofthese other cheesemaker victims by the name of
Taun Calver says, quote, it's ridiculous. Of allthe things that steal in the world, 22 tons of
cheese. And then he goes on to say, what it doesshow, which I'm amazed about, is the value people
(13:40):
put on these amazing Artisan foods. Like he'sshocked that someone would want their cheese. I'm
shocked somebody has enough room for one ton ofcheese, either Imperial or American or whatever.
However we qualify it. Right. Let alone 24 tons.Like that's a huge that's bananas. By the end of
(14:03):
October, the news has gone world. Excuse me. Thenews has gone worldwide and is sensational. It's
nicknamed the great cheese robbery. And this, ofcourse, does not sit well with anybody,
especially the foodies and celebrity chef JamieOliver goes with Instagram to share thoughts
(14:24):
about it saying quote, there has been a greatcheese robbery. Some of the best cheddar cheese in
the world has been stolen. And then he hops on eggs,formerly known as Twitter, to say, if anyone hears
anything about posh cheese going for cheap, forcheap, it's probably some wrong. Who's going to
(14:47):
report the cheese? Snitches. Snitches willreport the cheese. Well, you know, you're
absolutely right. They will. So obviously aninvestigation is underway. And it's pretty clear
that these scammers have posed as an agent of thisrespective French distributor. Like I said,
(15:10):
they're renowned in your in the Europe cheesetrade. And the idea of organizing this major like
cheese moving event would be exactly the thingthat this French distributor would have been
doing. So it wouldn't have caught anybody offguard. So of course, nobody initially questions
when the order comes in. These scammers literallyfool everyone right out the gate at every level,
(15:33):
like at every level. But in the late, like late inOctober, the week of like the 28th to the 31st,
there's an arrest. It's a 63 year old man and he'sarrested on suspicion of fraud and false
representation, as well as handling stolengoods. The man is taken to a South London police
station and questioned and then released on bail.He's got said underneath his fingers and a bulk of
(15:59):
shredded serial numbers in a shoe. It's got to bewhat it looks like, right? Um, I lost my spot. Now,
excuse me, more arrests are made as we enter intothe new year, which is now 2025. One was a 37 year old
man on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud andhandling stolen goods. And since then, at least
(16:23):
five more men have been arrested with one that wasinterviewed under caution. So I don't know that
that's an arrest more as it is just we brought you infor questioning is what I'm assuming that means.
Now, in the meantime, all of them have beenreleased while detectives from the Metropolitan
Police Specialist Crime Command continue withtheir investigation and inquiries. And all I can
(16:45):
imagine is a group of detectives sitting next toanother group of detectives, one has to deal with
stolen cheese and one dealing with like high vicecrimes. And they're doing the same job and that
just makes me laugh so hard. Neal's yard dairy isstill working with the police to help with
identifying any of the pervs and also to recoverthe stolen cheese, which could have made its way to
(17:10):
Russia or the Middle East via the gray market.Yeah, that's the thing. I knew there was a black
one. Yeah, it's like it's marginally black likewe're almost the margin is a butter marginally. I
know I was being. My ill attempt to humor. Your illattempt to humor. I'm here for it. So earlier I
(17:34):
mentioned the cheese tags which had been removed.And so Neal's yard dairy has put out a request to
other distributors and those in the market toreport any sightings of the cloth bound shutter
wheels weighing either 10 cakes or 24 cakes, whichis respectively 20 few pounds or 53 pounds. That
(17:55):
said, if you see cheese without a tag, it could havebeen sold on the black or gray market and it's
illegal. Now, so the, that's fun. Didn't havetags. I thought they were sold with tags. It was,
but the tags were removed and I don't know at whatpoint in the investigation, like I don't know if
they discovered that they were removed in thedepot or at some other point, but they know that the
(18:17):
tags are missing from these specific wheels ofcheese. And so keep your keep an eye out for half her
cheese missing its tag. This, this sounds likethere's a literal chop shop. But she's been
laundered. It's been chopped into smaller bits.It's in your lunchable now. Yeah. So, as a fun
(18:42):
aside, the BBC says food related crimes, whichincludes smuggling counterfeiting and out and
out best cost the global food industry between 30and 50 billion a year or in great British pounds 23
to 38 billion. According to the World TradeOrganization, and these range from hijackings of
(19:03):
freight lorries delivering food to warehouses tothe best of 24 live lobsters from a storage pen in
Scotland. But a number of these food crimes havealso targeted the grade the cheese industry and in
particularly luxury cheese, which is notsomething I thought I would ever say. Considering
(19:24):
last week I talked about government cheese,luxury cheese feels like the opposite into that
pendulum. Yeah, you're, you know what? You'reabsolutely right. You're absolutely right. And
so, so that's my story of the great cheese robberyat 24. It is still ongoing investigation is still
happening. So I don't know who's who's behind itall. But before you ask, there have in fact been
(19:48):
other great cheese heists one in 2026 and at leastone more in 1990. And in 2026, you said, is he 2016?
Did I say 26? I've rubbed off on you. I'mprojecting. I am projecting for next year.
There's going to be a great cheese. Scott Lanyard,if there's a cheese heist in 2026, you heard it here
(20:08):
first. Angie is the ringleader. I really lovecheese. So, yeah, I don't know that any of them have
been named great as in G. R. A. T. But that's thestory of the great cheese robbery of 24. And it was
inspired by you and my cheese loving son. I'm herefor that. I really am. And now I'm going to put down
(20:33):
the shoe I'm embroidering and I will pull up mynotes. Love this for me. Okay. So my story comes
from a Tik Tok recommendation because my favoriteones do. This is from a Tik Tok user named Katie H. 31
38. And I'm going to be telling you the story ofagent zigzag. Okay, go. Excellent. My sources.
(21:02):
I'm familiar with the name. Okay, good. Agentzigzag the book by bang mac and tire warfare
history network secret agent man. The story ofEddie Chapman by Peter Cross and a couple of
podcasts. The BBC book club, Ben Mac and tire wasinterviewed. It's titled agent zigzag and then
true life spy stories from career criminal toagent zigzag. Right. Now let's go. Eddie Chapman.
(21:28):
This is the dude we're going to be working with. Hegoes by several aliases. I didn't put them in
there. Some of his like one of his aliases is like atEdwards, which I'm like, okay, could with fake and
fake or something. Johnson, you know, like, butEddie Chapman, he's the eldest of three kids. He's
born November 16th, 1914 in a small Englishvillage of Bruno Bruno field. That's probably not
(21:54):
even how you say it, but anyhow, his father runs alocal pub. It's called the clipper ship. The,
okay. Establishment doesn't do very well becausedaddy dearest tends to get high on his own supply.
Unfortunately. Yeah. So he's a bit of an alcoholicand he is said to drink more than work. As most
(22:22):
alcoholics do. Problematic. Now at 17, Eddie doesthis thing where he lies about his age, forges
paperwork, joins the army. Good for him. He enlistin the second battalion of the cold stream guards
after spending about nine months in uniform. Thecollar got a little itchy and he's granted leave
(22:45):
and he makes a beeline to love or to London and hestarts hooking up with all the chicks. He can get
his hands on. Okay. He's not that small or itchy,but it has a job. It, you know, he found the uniform
chasers and he showed them how it worked. Evenworse, he decides that he's just not going to go
(23:06):
back. He's just going to go completely AWOL. Okay.And he's eventually arrested. He spends two
months in a stockade and then when he's released,he's dishonorably discharged and he returned to
Soho and began his new career as a petty criminal.Yes. He spent two months in the stockade? Yes.
(23:31):
Like, I'm assuming like Brigg. Yeah, that makessense. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. He goes
through a series of odd jobs working as a barman.He's an extra in motion pictures. He's a dancer.
And I'm assuming that meant like dancer. A scalenightclub where he would go and like be paid by the
(23:55):
establishment to dance with young ladies to makethem stay to buy more drinks. That's my
assumption. Okay. A wrestler, basicallyanything that gives him access to booze and women.
His two great loves in this life. That'll work. Hespends most of his free time at this bar called
Smokey Joe's and he's meeting tons of the who's whoof the underworld. Okay. He gravitates quickly to
(24:23):
this, this new arena. It's during the 1930s. Hereally catapults into his second career. I love
the way you say that. Like, it's like, it's likesaying he's just going to go do that next great
thing. Yeah. And I know, but by the tone of yourvoice, that's, that's not what you mean. No, no.
(24:47):
He's breaking into homes and stealing everythinghe can get his hands on. The luxury cheese. The
luxury cheese that are just left up on the entrytable by the front door, including like, he's also
forging checks. Okay. Now, for his crimes whencaught, he's given like these little slap on the
(25:11):
resentences. And like, he serves like a two monthterm for stealing a check and then for fraud. As
soon as he's out of jail, he's rearrested fortrespassing and locked up for another three
months. So our man loved three hots in a cot. When itworks, you know, right? When it works, the book
(25:31):
refers to him as an honest villain. The best kind.Yep. Like truly, but like, okay, so they talk about
how gregarious and really charismatic he is, likethe kind of guy who could shake your hand, smile and
pick your pocket with his other hand. Yep. Okay.Now during the same period, he joins this ruthless
(25:55):
bunch of criminals called the jelly gang. Theyfound terrifying. Don't they? Now, when I first
heard this, I thought that is the dumbest gangname, but they were using a thing called Jellick
Knight, which is an explosive. Oh, so okay, it'sjust a plate. That makes sense. Yep. So their M.O.
(26:15):
is using high explosives to break into safe. I lovethis. Now he, Eddie Chapman refers to himself as a
master safe cracker, but I'm going to go out on alimb and I'm going to say if you're using
explosives, you don't necessarily need adelicate hand. Yep. Mastering that is not, it's
(26:37):
not the same as being able to like pick the lock witha bobby pin. Yeah, the fine motor skill needs. Like
your dexterity levels are much different. Yeah.So the leader of the jelly gang is this dude named
Jimmy Hunt. Chapman later will use Jimmy's namewhen he's trying to fool Germans during the war. So
(26:57):
put a pin in that. A pin in it. The jelly gangproceeds to rob various upscale stores all
throughout London. They steal from a furriernamed Isabelle's where they steal a number of minx
and caves valued at 200 pounds. And this is in the30s. Next they go to a pawnbroker where the gang
blew up four safes. They steal 15,000 pounds.Okay. Which I didn't think a pawnbroker would have
(27:24):
that much when I'm honest. Now, I mean, it sort ofmakes sense. They have to be able to pay you for the
thing that you're paunting them. Fair. Fair. Nowhe loves his work so much. He's so proud of
everything that he does that he clips thenewspaper articles about himself and the
(27:44):
robberies and he files them into a scrapbook.Dude, my dad did that. Hold up. Your dad was a petty
criminal. Yes. Sign bar. Carry on. This is theAngie story now. Okay. So what I, I don't know what
kind of trouble he would get into, but he was verywell like this. The young man, him like pre kids,
(28:09):
him like early teens, young adult, him. Yeah.Would get into so much trouble with the local like
police and Sheriff's department that they knewhim by name. And often from what I'm told, it was
like by association, like he would be arrestedbecause he was in the wrong place at the right time
with the wrong group of guys, but he may not havecommitted that day's crime. But like on more than
(28:35):
one occasion, like I remember my grandma tellingme one time, he was probably 17 or 18. The officer
showed up at his door said, Mrs. Brewer, I'm sosorry, I'm going to have to rest your son. Could you
get him to come out? And she says, yes, sir. My dadcomes out willingly. They handcuff him. He gets in
the car. No problem. Two hours later, the sameofficer arrives back at my grandma's house and
(28:57):
says, dear Mrs. Brewer, I'm so sorry. I need to restyour son again. Because my dad hopped the car. Ran
around for a couple hours and then came home andtook a map and went back the second time. Like my dad
was the real life Luke and Boduk. Like, okay. I andso every time he got in trouble in those early
(29:19):
years, he would clip the newspaper article thatwent with it and kept it like his. Like scrapbooked
style kept it. I mean, honestly, you need to redoyour family album and integrate those articles
into it. Honestly, I need to get my yes, yes, it'shis rebel yearbook. You're absolutely right.
(29:46):
100%. I will have to try to find him because thearticles are hilarious. Like in one that I can
remember off the top of my head, some friends of hislike three friends of his were involved in like a
petty. House theft and my dad like showed up whenthe theft was over and had like really no idea that
(30:07):
that had happened. But because he was with themwhen they heard the police coming, they told him to
run. So he ran and was arrested like three hourslater hiding under a bush somewhere. And every
single time it was like, dude, I wasn't even there.I mean, but I kind of was, but I really wasn't. Yeah,
every time, like just by proxy, I'm in trouble, butI guess maybe I should be your sign to get new
(30:31):
friends. Yeah, yeah, I would be. Okay, so back toEddie Chapman, Agent Zig Zig. Sorry. No, no, no. I
didn't know there were others like that.Delightful detour, happy to have got on it. So
Eddie Chapman, his scrapbook, all of that. It's sopervasive that Scotland Yard has an entire group
(30:52):
dedicated to the jelly gang. I love that. Now,before like, this was when I was doing my own notes
before, you know, you went on. Yeah, I knew you weregoing to have a delightful tangent about this. I
sit down in my notes, imagine dating a guy and goingto his home and finding his scrapbook of crimes.
It's like, oh, look, he crafts. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh,my mom kept it. That's the only reason I know it
(31:18):
exists because I found it once. Oh, okay. So this isall delicious and I love this all. We're going to go
to 1939. Eddie Chapman is doing his Nairdwellspree and the police are hot on a trail. Now members
of the jelly gang fled towards Scotland and this iswhere their luck runs out. They're trying to rob
(31:39):
the headquarters of the Edinburgh CooperativeSociety. And this is where Chapman and four others
are caught by policemen who heard the noise andinvestigated before they go to trial. The form
escaped and fled to the wilds of Jersey in theChannel Islands. OK, now Chapman's got this huge
amount of money on him. And he is now the subject ofthis huge manhunt across the marshes of Jersey
(32:02):
before being captured by the police while he'sstaying in the hotel. They'll applause. Now he and
his four friends went. But before they went, hegrabbed his side piece named Betty and they're
hanging out in the Jersey Island and they'reliving large. Like right because he's got all
kinds of cash. He's got all this cash. He sends thisletter back home to his girlfriend saying, hey,
(32:27):
honey, managing something and the policeintercept. They're like, wait a minute, wait a
minute, you're in Jersey. We'll hold on a second.We can go find you. They go to Jersey, right? Now the
side piece is this woman named Betty Farmer. Bettysees like they're in this hotel or they're in this
(32:48):
restaurant at the hotel. They're having a greattime. It's Betty, Eddie Chapman, a couple of their
members of Jelly Gang. They see the members of theplainclothes police come in and Eddie Chapman
goes, those look like the fuzz. So he leans over,kisses Betty, excuses himself to the bathroom,
climbs out the bathroom window and she gets pickedup by the police and then he's later busted. But
(33:13):
okay, please tell me she slapped him when she sawhim again. She comes back. Oh, good. Back, put a pin
in that story. Okay. Now this event gettingcaptured by the government, by the police in
Jersey. This is his life, his fuzz, the five. Now,June 1940, he's safely in jail. The German war
(33:38):
machine rolls all the way through Europe, right?France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg,
they're all under Hitler's dominion. Now, theLüwaffa, they begin to prepare for the invasion of
Great Britain and the outlying areas. Thisincludes the Channel Islands. You see where I'm
coming. Now, things happen. The Germans invade.They take over the Channel Islands. Now we've got a
(34:00):
British citizen locked up in jail, now underGerman control. My money's on him. I mean, your
money should be on him. He's fearing for hislong-term safety because he's got him and some
friends that he's made. He writes a letter to theGerman authorities in the Channel Islands and
he's like, look, look, I mean, I've been in herelong enough to be teaching myself French. Like you
(34:23):
need me and I can be a great spy for the third right.Have you seen this jawline? I mean, honestly, I'll
show you his jawline. It's this man. If your friendsaid, I met this man on hinge and showed you the
picture, you would be like, okay, kind of cute, butthe man is going to be a smarmy psychopath. So it's
(34:46):
the exact vibe I've been getting the whole timehere. Yeah. Okay. Now, so Chapman writes this
letter being like, hey, let me spy for you. Have youseen this? You've seen this? Now, he later goes on
to say, if I could work a bluff with the Germans, Icould probably be sent over to Britain, perhaps
(35:06):
with phony talk even then, but I don't pretendthere was no other modus in the plan as I began to
turn it over to my mind. They did not occur to meeither in the moment or in the mood. So he's like,
look, I'm just, I was trying to get back home. A conartist is a con artist. Right. Now he makes friends
with this dude in prison named Fairness, right?And both him and Fairness are like, Hey, yeah,
(35:29):
we're in this, we're in this. We're like, in adouble team to spy bit, it'll be like spy versus
spy, whatever it is, anyhow, they think they'regoing to do this. Now they end up, they were, they
had been arrested on these bogus charges ofcutting telephone lines on Channel Island, which
is just weird. They're put on a plane for Paris or atrain for Paris and they have no idea what's going
(35:50):
to happen, right? They're taken to this prisoncalled Fort De Romonville and it's on the
outskirts of the city and Chapman getsinterrogated by the prison staff about his
various criminal activities because there's adossier in the jail. All right, this guy, he's
back. Now, one of the men interrogating him is thisman named Dr. Stefan Grauman, who also goes by the
(36:15):
name Von Groening. Now at the time, Chapman andGrauman, they become close friends, despite
being on very different sides of the war. Okay.Okay. Like for whatever reason, these two vibe.
Now, it's during these sessions that Graumanmakes Eddie an offer. He can't refuse. He's like,
look, I'll get you your freedom and you'd likecash. You like money? I got lots of money. I'm going
(36:41):
to send you back to the prison. I don't even knowwhat to do with the money. I got, yeah. Like we've
got real money. We've got fake money. We've gotfake money that looks like real money. I, I will get
into that. Now, I'm so excited. He's like, we'regoing to, we'll send you back to Britain. We're
going to train you with, you know, all the stuffGerman intelligence can. And we're going to send
(37:03):
you on some planned ice mission or clandestinemissions. And Chapman, he's like, look, I see a
chance to get out of jail. This sounds like a greatdeal for me. I could act as a spot, not going to
necessarily actually do it, but pretend. So he'slike, I'm going to take this offer once in a
lifetime to do it for the lore. Good for him. Now,he's like, oh, man, man, Fairmas. Oh, no, no, we're
(37:25):
going to keep him here. So you act right. Yep. Okay.I mean, so Fairmas eventually gets into a cross
concentration camp. He survives the war. I'lljust float that out there. Um, and then Chapman's
taking to a new training facility in Nantes,France. And he is living the high life because the
(37:46):
Germans want to make this man loyal unto them. Sochampagne, multi-course meals. Um, he's also
trained in the fine art of espionage, wirelesscontraption or operations, hand-to-hand combat
and secret Inc. Oh, okay. Okay. Now he's trainingunder three months under the direction of
(38:08):
Lieutenant Walter Prittoria. Now he's got acouple of the names. I'm just kidding. But Chapman
basically becomes like adapted all of thesethings and he's ready for the next step in the, in
the German war. Now at one point when, in the book,when he's learning parachute jumping, he lands on
(38:28):
his face. As you do, jacks up his teeth, ends uphaving to have like, I think $6,000 in 1930s money
poured into his face. Cool. Like multiple goldteeth and people are like, we're going to throw
this in for a Brit. Like we've already spent toomuch. Take him out back and shoot him. Like we don't
(38:51):
need this. We can get other ones. Yeah. Um, so he's,he's making enemies just because the amount of
money that the right guy's spending on them, butthose teeth come in handy because unbeknownst to
everybody, uh, the German signals are beingintercepted by Bletchley Park and they hear about
this person who goes by the code named Fritschianor little Fritz who has gotten gold teeth, who's
(39:16):
gotten all this stuff done, who's going to beinfiltrating Britain. And so there's like, okay,
okay. Now Chapman never knows about BletchleyPark and everything that they've learned about
him, but put a pen in that. I'm so far building one ofthose crime boards because you should be with like
all of the strings going everywhere else. Yeah.Now, as I've kind of mentioned the unbeknownst to
(39:40):
the Abwehr and Eddie Chapman, the British know allabout his plans to enter England. They don't quite
know his actual identity, but they know his codenames. They know where he, where he's going to go.
They have an idea of his missions and they're ableto decipher the encryption that are coming
through. Now. Using their 20 committee or thedouble cross organization, the British are able
(40:04):
to turn German spies who operate against theirformer masters under the penalty of death. Most of
these spies cooperated with Britain to save theirown lives. Surprise, surprise. You know, they're
going to do what they need to do to save theirheight. So this chap, Chapman jumps out of a plane,
buries his parachute, gathers his belongings andlike basically races to the first farmhouse he can
(40:25):
get his hands on scares the hell out of this farmerand couple who most likely don't believe that he is
indeed a downed R.E .F. pilot. Right. Okay. Now heturns himself over to local police who call secret
intelligence service. And this is where Chapmantells him story about being recruited by the
Abwehr. And he's like, but, but I could turn coatwork for you guys instead. I'm actually bored with
(40:51):
them. Like they only give me champagne and take meto all the brothels when I'm bored. Yeah. I mean, I
want a good English lady. Now he is sent to a secretinstallation dubbed camp zero to zero. And this is
(41:12):
where all the German Asians are kept. Now it's notnear as luxurious as where he had been announced.
The official name of this location is the Lachmerehouse. It's a large rambling home in Hamcommon in
West London. And it's here that Eddie would betaught the intricacies of British tradecraft.
Okay. So they're like retraining him in theirstage, right? Now he tells his interrogators that
(41:39):
his primary mission given him by the Abwehr is todestroy the Daveland aircraft works. And this is
the aircraft works that's making the mosquitoairplane. Okay. I was going to ask, okay, got it.
Yeah. Now the mosquitoes made of wood. It makes itvery light, very fast, extremely maneuverable,
and it pits Hitler off. Most things do. Right. Andhe's told to blow up the facility. And so the
(42:07):
British, they could help from magician namedJasper Mescaline. I'm sorry, did you say
magician? I did. Okay. Just checking. Yes. Okay.And this magician goes into help that Chapman
pretend that he blew up the mosquito factory.Mescaline came from a family known for magical
(42:29):
talent. Now during the war that he basically does aghost army move. He helped ghost army move. Yep. He
helped the British fool the Germans by hiding theSuez Canal. I'm sorry, that wasn't your story? I
got distracted. Okay. Okay. Carry on. Time on.I'll shut up. I put a pen in that because that could
(42:57):
be the next one. Sound good? And then Mescalineworked closely with various components of the
British military, including the Air Ministry'scamouflage section. The military's can't. Nope.
The Air Ministry's camouflage section. And so Ithink you have to say it like that. I had to really
(43:20):
rock into it. Now they create a set, a false set ofexplosions that when the German reconnaissance
aircraft flies over, it actually looks like it.Like they're painting tarps to put over
everything. They're doing small explosions likethey're ghost armying it. It's really what
they're doing. Okay. So just to recap, so I know I'mfollowing the right way. He is hired by the Germans
(43:44):
to destroy this compound where they're makingthese mosquito gliders. Yep. And he makes the back
of Britain turncoats and now Britain's ghostarmying to make it look like he's done his job.
Correct. Okay. Now, Chapman does this part. Hesends a message to the Abwehr using the
(44:06):
prearranged code that had gone well. He writesFFFFF, Walter blown in two places. And when
Grownman hears the good news, he sends acongratulatory message to his favorite spy to
completely fool the Germans. The Britisharranged for false news items about the
destruction of the factory published in theLondon Daily Express. Yes. Now, the paper reaches
(44:31):
Grownman via Lisbon and he reads with interest ofhow well his master spy has done. You're not ready
for the next sentence. Oh, should I sit on my hands?Would you? For his exceptional work, the German
government awarded Eddie Chapman the iron cross.Damn it! I just... He is the only British man to
(44:59):
receive the honor. Of course. His Chapmansupervisors and teachers at Camp Zero Two Zero are
some of the most important members of the BritishSecret Service. Each one of these humans needs
their own episode. We have Colonel Robin TenaiStevenson. He's known for the monocles. Tenai
(45:21):
singular because of the monocle that he wears,reportedly even in bed. Perfect. Captain Ronnie
Reed, who is an expert in wireless radios. AndRonnie Reed in the book is described as so benignly
average looking that you could lose him in a crowd.He was like a quintessential spy because he was so
(45:43):
not noteworthy. Okay, sometimes that's souseful. But that's not how you want somebody to
describe you. No, but I could see how it'd beuseful. Right. There's one British officer who
wants nothing to do with Chapman and he comes intothe story at the end, but I couldn't find a logical
way to believe men. So here we go. And his name is Dr.Michael... Or Major Michael Wright. He's, I
(46:08):
guess, technically like Chapman's handler, butthey hate each other so intensely and instantly.
Sometimes you just vibe with somebody andsometimes you don't. Right. Like Wright hates the
fact that Chapman gets bored and says, I need you totake me to brothels because I'm tired and bored and
(46:29):
lonely. And Wright is like, but my upstandingpuritanical heart says no. I am the son of Oliver
Cromwell. We don't have Christmas. That'sbasically what's happening here. Right. So they
both like really just don't jive. Now, Wright...It could be funny that by the end of the story,
they're like best mates. No, they're not. Okay.Wright writes to a man named Thomas Robertson who
(46:58):
baby sat Chapman through his ladder seat inEngland, quote, the zigzag case needs to be closed
down at the earliest possible moment. Oh, I shouldhave mentioned. Chapman is nicknamed zigzag or
agent zigzag because he was so good at crossingthat he could just cross back at the other moment.
Right. Yeah. Now, when Chapman... I've mentionedthis maybe once or twice. Chapman loved the
(47:25):
ladies. Love the ladies. No, I forgot that you saidthat. When he was... When he went to Jersey in the
first place, he was dating this woman and heknocked her up. You'd been living with her and he
knocked her up and then he gets put in jail and allthat kind of stuff. Well, she ends up having a baby
and he... In Guernsey? What was that? No, not inJersey. Is this a woman from Guernsey? Oh, no. This
(47:48):
is the one in London or in the... Gotcha. On themainland. Now, when he goes over to Norway with the
Germans, he falls in love with this Norwegianwoman who ends up being a part of the Norwegian
resistance named Dagmar Lollum. And... Okay. Heends up just falling head over heels in love with
(48:17):
this woman. He later confides to Dagmar that he's aBritish agent and she ends up keeping this to
herself. And they would do this thing where he knewhe wanted to give the British information about
all these military installations. So he wouldtake his young hot girlfriend, have her pose in
front of these military installations, takepictures of her and then send those pictures.
(48:39):
Right. Because nobody's going to question youtaking a picture of a pretty girl. Dun, dun, dun.
Yeah. Now, the girl back home that he got knockedup, her name's Frida. They have a baby named Diane
that he ends up not meeting until she's like three.When he goes back to Britain, he ends up saying, I
(48:59):
need to find Frida and Diane. I need to see mydaughter for the first time in my life. She's
already a toddler, the satin, the other. This isabsolutely insane. Okay. Because I should say
first, he sees Frida and Diane when he's in Britainand he goes to the training. He's like, I'm a double
agent. I need to find my baby and my baby's mama.He's living in a house with members of like the
(49:27):
police force with MI5 coming to check on himregularly and his baby mama and baby. Okay. They
are paying for his upkeep. Of course they are. WhenGermany says we need you to come back here, he tells
MI5, I need you to take care of Frida and the baby andgive them monthly stipends so they can live. And
(49:48):
MI5 says that. So he goes back to Germany, does moretraining there, is sent to Norway, is partying
over there, sleeping with this nice hot woman,sending pictures back to MI5. Then he's going to
get put on a mission back into Britain. So he tellsthe Abwehr, I've been taking care of Dagmar. I need
(50:12):
you to guys to put her up and give her a monthlystipend. So he's got like, oh my God, okay, carry
on. This man has a host in different area codes andmakes various governments pay for them. I love
this for him. Good for him. I mean, it is just like,what? Now, remind me to circle back on Betty
(50:35):
Farmer, the woman he abandoned the hotel. Yeah.Because I'm going to hold on to that one real quick.
When the Abwehr tells Chapman to return toGermany, the British government goes, you have
her blessing. Godspeed. Do the thing. Yeah. And sohe goes spend some time in Oslo, Norway, and that's
(51:00):
where he meets Dagmar. And he ends up taking themoney that the Germans give him and he buys a yacht.
He learns how to sail it. Okay. Yeah. And at onepoint he offers his services to kill Adolf Hitler
by exploding a bomb when they attend a rallybecause he's chatting with Von Groening. And
(51:22):
Groening offers to take him to a rally and Groeninghas no love lost for Hitler. Right. And so, you
know, Chapman's like, well, basically I couldkill him. Well, I could take him to a rally if you
want to allow the bomb at him kind of deal. Now, withall of that going on, when Eddie Chapman told
(51:45):
Ronnie Reed, one of his handlers in England aboutit, it was Ronnie Reed who was like, ooh, I would not
do that because you're going to die. You're goingto die no matter what, even if you're successful or
not. Chapman responds, ah, but what a way out. LikeChapman is just like, do it for the lore. Do it for
(52:06):
the lore. All of it. Every bit of it. Now WinstonChurchill is told about the zigzag case. And Duff
Cooper, who is the leading member of the BritishIntelligence establishment, he said he had
discussed the case of zigzag at some length withthe prime minister who showed considerable
(52:28):
interest because this is Winston Churchill, wholoves Ungernemaly Warfare. Yes, he does. And we
couldn't love him more for it. Right. Now 1944,Grauman or von Groening, same same, the same
person, tells Chapman that he's going back toEngland for another intelligence mission. Now
the ad war still doesn't know that he's a doubleagent. And it's under this next assignment that
(52:52):
he's going to learn about Britain's latestefforts to attack the German U-boats. Because the
German U-boats are going down so hard and so fast,the Germans are afraid they've got some special
radar, maybe in planes, maybe like there'ssomething happening. And I'm like, we need you to
go through and figure it out because we're losingtoo many. Now, he's also told to report on the
(53:14):
effectiveness of the V-1 buzz bombs or the doodlebugs that are just wiping out London. And what is
happening is when he gets back to London, and hetells the MI5 what's happening, what his mission
is, they realize that they could give false dropcoordinates about what attack to start leading
(53:36):
them further away from the center of town. Okay. Soby continuing to say, oh, well, this blew up, they
keep moving these bombs further and further intothe countryside. Okay. Which really just shows
how effective this man was. Yeah. And howbrilliant like British intelligence is in the
(53:59):
first place. Like truth. Truth. Yeah. So Chapmanmakes it back to England June 29th, 1944. He's
dropped by a German plane over England near thetown of Cambridge and he ends up making his way back
to local police. And Chapman told his handlersabout his new mission and like, hey, look, I've got
(54:23):
to get all this information about doodle bugs.Let's work together. But now he's super
irritable, very tense. He wants to go back intoParis. He wants to do undercover operations and
MI5 vetoes it. And they decide, you know,Chapman's basically more trouble than he's
worth. We should just end it all completely. Justcut ties. It's been fun. It's been real, but it
(54:48):
hasn't been real fun. And in November of 44, he'sinformed that his services are no longer needed.
And he's left with 6,000 pounds in cash from theBritish. And 1,000 pounds that remained from the
money given to him by the Abwehr. Grownman failedto hear from Chapman after several long months of
waiting, believing that his prize agent had beenkilled or captured. Unfortunate on their part
(55:13):
because he's probably just laying on the beachsomewhere. I mean, you say that. After the war
ends, he returns to his career in crime. He'sreally good at it. He dabbled in black market
activities. I didn't sell luxury cheese.Probably. He's running protection rackets in
(55:36):
London. And he joins up with some of his old palsfrom before who kind of landed him a jail in the
first place. Now, remember Betty Farmer, thewoman he left at the hotel when he was arrested?
Yeah, I was going to ask about her. He joins back upwith her. They have a daughter named Suzanne.
She's born in October of 54. And he illegallytransports gold across the Mediterranean and
(56:00):
buys a share of a ship called the Flamingo, which isused for a whole host of illegal activities. And in
the 60s, the family moved to South Africa. Ofcourse they do. Now, of course they do. In 1966,
Eddie writes a memoir called The Real EddieChapman Story. And he's got to leave a ton of info
(56:21):
out because telling everybody what reallyhappened would be violating the Official Secrets
Act. And this is heavily impressed upon him.That's why Major Carriola has never said
anything. Truth. So when the book comes out, it'skind of a flop because it doesn't have enough
(56:44):
detail to make it sensational and bombastic. So itjust kind of like, really, this sounds like a
half-hearted lie. But his story is made into amovie called Triple Cross starring Christopher
Plummer. And Agent Zigzag dies in December of 1997at the age of 83. But his files are declassified in
(57:09):
2001. There's 1,500 pages of reports. I want toread them all. Well, and it's partly because of
that declassification that Ben McIntyre was ableto go through, find them and write this book. And in
one of the interviews, he said that because thesereports were written by government for
(57:29):
government under the assumption nobody would seethis, they are so truthful. That's so fun. Yep. So
fun. But that is the story of Eddie Chapman, akaAgent Zigzag. Thank you for that. I loved every
(57:50):
second of that. And I'm still trying to figure outwhat side he was actually on. I have a feeling he,
and this is something that like the book reallygrapples with. Basically, what Ben McIntyre is
under the assumption of is that Eddie Chapman wasprimarily on the British side, but he was on Eddie
Chapman's side. Yeah. That's kind of the vibe thatI've been getting. Like, I'm on whatever side's
(58:14):
going to pay me. Right. Because I'm FreddieChapman. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I want to know what
happened to the first girlfriend and Dagmar andeverybody else that he... Dagmar never, like
Eddie Chapman promises to go back to for Dagmar. Henever does. And so she ends up never having a very
(58:37):
solid relationship after that with anybody else.Gotcha. Fair. Fair. Okay. As for Frida and the
baby, they end up getting... Like, I think Fridamarries somebody else after the war. If I'm not
mistaken, I'm going from memory now. And thegovernment continues to give Frida a monthly
check for like years. That's awesome. Which thatis... I love that. I love it. But yeah, but at least
(59:04):
he went back to Betty, but apparently was fiercelyunfaithful throughout the entirety of their
marriage. Shocking. I know. But I've seen that onecoming, I think. At his daughter's wedding, he
invites fun grooming. Like, they are friends.Like, to the point where like, please come to my
(59:25):
daughter's wedding. Yeah. What a whack job. Thatis hilarious. And this wasn't his daughter got
married in the 60s. She was born in 54. So probablythe 70s. Maybe, yeah. I mean, I didn't write down
(59:46):
when the wedding was. Either way, that's nuts.That's so funny. Gross. I know. I know. Thank you
for that. Yeah. R over to Spy. Surprise, surprise.I'm shocked. I'm shook even. Well, if Gabbers are
flasted. If you need your Gabbers flastedoccasionally, or you want to have, you know, the
(01:00:12):
shock, wipe and astound you, you should write,review, subscribe. Join us next week. Send this to
somebody who also loves World War II spies, even ifthey don't. And cheese. And on that note, goodbye.
Bye.
Hi, and welcome to the Unhinged History Podcast.The podcast were two compulsive, absolute
unhinged maniacs without knives. Join forces andtell each other history stories we've only
recently learned. I'm host one. I'm Teresa andthat's... I'm Angie. I have a string cheese and I'm
(00:32):
host two. Yeah, could you wait, Edly, until afteryour intro before you inject cheese into your
mouth? I can't. It's part of the show. I'm glad thisis an audio podcast and you've introduced eating.
Ha ha! Aren't you so excited? I can't wait for thisnext rash of reviews because they will be a rash.
(00:54):
Well... Yeah. Good news is good news...or what isthat? Good...any publicity is good publicity?
Sure, it is now. It is now. I believe I went firstlast week when we covered the Great Madison Butter
Fire of 1991. Yeah, you did. I just checked. No, I'mgoing to go back to doing some needlework and
(01:21):
listening to you regale me with whatever it is youchoose to tell me. I'm just asking ahead of time. Do
you need a palette cleanser? Good question. No, Idon't actually. This time I am pretty stinking
good. Okay, well, I'm... I am so excited to tell youmy story. Okay. I'm going to come out the gate with a
(01:52):
quote from Scotland Yard and then I will tell you mysources. I know that we're on different centuries
because of the conversation we had in textyesterday, but I do have Scotland Yard in mind as
well. That is awesome. I'm so excited. Are youready for my quote? Good. Never mind. Okay. On
(02:15):
Monday, this is the quote from Scotland Yard. OnMonday, the 21st of October, we received a report
of the theft of a large quantity of cheese from amanufacturer based in Southwark. Inquiries are
ongoing into the circumstances. This is a recentquote. From 24. Oh, from 2024. My sources. Okay.
(02:39):
63-year-old man arrested in UK, cheese heist, NPRby Rachel Trisman and Juliana Kim. This is
November of 2024. And just for the headline, thegreat cheese robbery. Man arrested after 24 times
(02:59):
of cheese, totaling $390,000 that's stolen inLondon by Gabriella Rudy from October 24.
Question. Interrupting cow question. Go. Did youchoose this story because you're like, I, what
great cheese events occurred? So this has been onmy list probably since April when I heard about the
(03:28):
cheese heist and was laughing so hard last weekwhen you were talking about the cheese fire.
Because you realized that I could have easilyjumped in and taken the cheese heist from you.
Easily. And I was like, I got, I got to go. But then Ilaughed even harder when I realized we were
discussing how there's not enough greatsanymore. So I am giving you the great cheese
(03:54):
robbery. However, it is not G-R-E-A-T. It isG-R-A-T-E because again, we have a sense of humor
and so is the press. He great cheese robbery of 24.My other, my other sources are the Neil's Yard
Heist when luxury cheese is being targeted bycriminals. That is from the BBC. It is also from
(04:18):
November of 24. And an Al Jazeera article by DwayneOxford October 24. The great cheese heist who
stole $390,000 of cheese. All right. There is alsoa really delightful article in here from the Dairy
Heard by Taylor Leach, which was just out in Augustof this year. And apparently the Dairy Heard is
(04:42):
like the foremost authority on dairy informationcoming out of the UK. Okay. So you heard it here. I
was like, okay, I didn't, I didn't know. I didn'tknow those things. Okay. So this is the 2024 UK
theft of tens of tons of Premier cheese, whichhappened to be a very wonderfully sophisticated
(05:07):
scam. So basically here's the story sometimebetween June and July of 2024, a dairy farmer
called Patrick Holden. He gets an email from apurchaser for this French supermarket chain. And
this guy wants to buy 22 tons of his half or cheese.This happens to be the cheese that Holden
(05:29):
specializes in. Like this is his jam, right? Thisis a ward winning cloth bound artisan cheese that
comes sealed in a layer of lard that has been agedfor 18 months. This cheese is so special that it
comes with like its own, like its own serialnumber. A quick Google search basically
(05:50):
describes the tags that are attached to thesecheeses as quote, cheese tags for our artisanal
wheels, our Artisanal identifiers. Yeah.Artisanal wheels are crucial identifiers acting
like ID cards that track the production like datebatch facility for cheese makers. They are often
(06:11):
used using food safe casein labels that stick tothe rind and then or their printed paper or plastic
tags with all the batch number info on them. That'slike just attached to the wheel of cheese. Browne
Percival, who is a buyer at Neal's Dairy who I'llmention again in just a few minutes says this
(06:31):
cheese is quote, one of the most special cheesesbeing made in the UK. And I just think that it's
hilarious that there's like a conversation aboutthis. Now for Holden, the cheese man, this is a big
deal. This is the biggest order he has everreceived. To the point that Holden remembers
(06:53):
thinking, you know, because this ordersupposedly comes from France, his thought is
quote, finally people on the continent areappreciating what we do. And I would just like to
take a second to acknowledge the fact that theEnglish still call the mainland the continent.
Now, but see, that makes sense to me. You know what Imean? It does. I just never really thought about it
(07:13):
before like you hear about it in like doubt and abbylike we should take it to the continent. But like, I
didn't realize we're still saying that this feelsweird to me because this would be like the French
calling me and saying, Hey, that bubble wine thatyou make, we want to import a bad of it. Like, but you
want my stuff in the land of your stuff? Yeah. Okay.And I think that's kind of how Holden's feeling
(07:38):
about it. But he's also like, wow, they're reallyrecognizing what our specialties are here.
That's great. Now, an order this big is madethrough Neil's dairy yard or Neil's yard dairy,
which is quote, an upmarket cheese seller andwholesaler. Now, Neil's yard collects these
specialty cheeses throughout the summer sincethe orders placed. And I should say that it wasn't
(08:03):
just the half for cheese. It was several specialtycheeses. There's Westcomb cheddar, pitchfork
cheddar, and of course, then the half for it. Now,all of these, you just said that like, of course, of
course, all of these, they are special. As Imentioned before, they come from small batch
enterprise like the Holden family. And besideshim, there are two other dairy farmers that this
(08:28):
prize will call as being sourced from. So it's ahuge order. And it's all three of the dairy farmers
that are being sourced from. This is like thebiggest order they've ever had and also the most
crippling order they could have because in orderto fulfill this order, they're taking out their
(08:50):
entire stock because of how long it takes to createto produce this cheese. Right? So like it's a
thing. So according to the BBC, the first batch ofhalf for it arrived at its London base in
September. It takes up one square meter on a palletbut represents two years of effort and had the
wholesale value of 35,000 pounds or $46,000 incheese. In total, the amount of cheese that's
(09:20):
requested is between 20 and 22 tons, which equalsout to be about 24 U.S. tons. I didn't realize that
tons were a difference but they are. Yeah, I mean,we're American. We've got to do everything.
Right. Of course we do. So in total, that's roughlybetween that cheese, that tonnage of cheese is
going to be about 300,000 pounds, which is like$395,000. So it's a lot of cheese money. By October
(09:51):
14th, they've collected all the cheese and it'sready to leave Neil's Dairy Yard. It's all packed
up. It's taken by courier to a depot and then gone.Nothing. It's vanished and they don't know where
it went. Not a clue. You would be shocked to learnthat there is no real order and by October 21st,
(10:12):
payment has unsurprisingly not showed up becauseof course it won't. Okay, but they... Okay, small
problem. Go. Typically, you get an order, you sayhalf down, half at fulfillment. You would think
(10:32):
that because I thought that too. And in one of thesources, I don't quote it, but in one of the
sources, they talk about how in the cheese world,there is a lot of trust and faith put in each other.
So I feel like they were never... The thought ofeven ever being duped was never in their mind
because the supplier that this individual calledfrom is one of the most renowned in Europe. So why
(10:58):
wouldn't they be trusted? So I don't think a halfdown, half on delivery thing ever even went
through their mind. However, I'm sure it does now.Right? So the buyer that made the request for all
the cheese that plays such a large order is ofcourse a fake, a fraud, a phony, right? All of the
(11:19):
things. A scam artist, a con artist. I'm trying toget all the words. You left a couple. I'm sure
there's more, right? A rake, if you will. Now,since the payment hasn't arrived, Neil's yard has
to report the theft of 10s of Cheddar. Or morespecifically, this is around 950 wheels of cheese
(11:44):
to Scotland Yard. So they are reporting away. Letme, for some context, according to the BBC, this
amount of cheese is roughly the weight of fourfull-sized elephants. This is proof Americans
will measure anything. And the BBC knows it. Sothey're like, yep, we got to tell them what it is in
elephants. I respect the BBC more and more. Me too.I was like, yes, thank you for that. We needed to
(12:10):
know exactly how many elephants of cheese this is.So on October 22, Neil's Dairy Yard comes out and
makes a statement to the public noting that theywere, quote, a victim of a sophisticated fraud. So
the statement goes on. That's just trust. Sorry,sorry. Carry on. The statement goes on to say, the
(12:32):
high monetary value of these cheeses likely madethem a particular target for the thieves. The
company is now taking steps to ensure both itsfinancial stability and the continued
development of the British Artisan and Cheesesector. Now, Neil's Yards then post the following
comments to their Instagram feed because theyhave one. Of course they do. The quote says, Neil's
(12:55):
Yard Dairy has been a victim of a theft resulting inthe loss of over 22 tons or 24 tons if you're an
American of clothed on cheddar. Over 950 wheels ofhalf-eared Westcomb and Pitchfork Cheddar were
delivered before the fraud was discovered.Despite the significant financial blow, we have
honored our commitment to the small-scalesuppliers and paid all three Artisan
(13:16):
cheesemakers in full. How nice of them. One ofthese other cheesemaker victims by the name of
Taun Calver says, quote, it's ridiculous. Of allthe things that steal in the world, 22 tons of
cheese. And then he goes on to say, what it doesshow, which I'm amazed about, is the value people
(13:40):
put on these amazing Artisan foods. Like he'sshocked that someone would want their cheese. I'm
shocked somebody has enough room for one ton ofcheese, either Imperial or American or whatever.
However we qualify it. Right. Let alone 24 tons.Like that's a huge that's bananas. By the end of
(14:03):
October, the news has gone world. Excuse me. Thenews has gone worldwide and is sensational. It's
nicknamed the great cheese robbery. And this, ofcourse, does not sit well with anybody,
especially the foodies and celebrity chef JamieOliver goes with Instagram to share thoughts
(14:24):
about it saying quote, there has been a greatcheese robbery. Some of the best cheddar cheese in
the world has been stolen. And then he hops on eggs,formerly known as Twitter, to say, if anyone hears
anything about posh cheese going for cheap, forcheap, it's probably some wrong. Who's going to
(14:47):
report the cheese? Snitches. Snitches willreport the cheese. Well, you know, you're
absolutely right. They will. So obviously aninvestigation is underway. And it's pretty clear
that these scammers have posed as an agent of thisrespective French distributor. Like I said,
(15:10):
they're renowned in your in the Europe cheesetrade. And the idea of organizing this major like
cheese moving event would be exactly the thingthat this French distributor would have been
doing. So it wouldn't have caught anybody offguard. So of course, nobody initially questions
when the order comes in. These scammers literallyfool everyone right out the gate at every level,
(15:33):
like at every level. But in the late, like late inOctober, the week of like the 28th to the 31st,
there's an arrest. It's a 63 year old man and he'sarrested on suspicion of fraud and false
representation, as well as handling stolengoods. The man is taken to a South London police
station and questioned and then released on bail.He's got said underneath his fingers and a bulk of
(15:59):
shredded serial numbers in a shoe. It's got to bewhat it looks like, right? Um, I lost my spot. Now,
excuse me, more arrests are made as we enter intothe new year, which is now 2025. One was a 37 year old
man on suspicion of conspiracy to defraud andhandling stolen goods. And since then, at least
(16:23):
five more men have been arrested with one that wasinterviewed under caution. So I don't know that
that's an arrest more as it is just we brought you infor questioning is what I'm assuming that means.
Now, in the meantime, all of them have beenreleased while detectives from the Metropolitan
Police Specialist Crime Command continue withtheir investigation and inquiries. And all I can
(16:45):
imagine is a group of detectives sitting next toanother group of detectives, one has to deal with
stolen cheese and one dealing with like high vicecrimes. And they're doing the same job and that
just makes me laugh so hard. Neal's yard dairy isstill working with the police to help with
identifying any of the pervs and also to recoverthe stolen cheese, which could have made its way to
(17:10):
Russia or the Middle East via the gray market.Yeah, that's the thing. I knew there was a black
one. Yeah, it's like it's marginally black likewe're almost the margin is a butter marginally. I
know I was being. My ill attempt to humor. Your illattempt to humor. I'm here for it. So earlier I
(17:34):
mentioned the cheese tags which had been removed.And so Neal's yard dairy has put out a request to
other distributors and those in the market toreport any sightings of the cloth bound shutter
wheels weighing either 10 cakes or 24 cakes, whichis respectively 20 few pounds or 53 pounds. That
(17:55):
said, if you see cheese without a tag, it could havebeen sold on the black or gray market and it's
illegal. Now, so the, that's fun. Didn't havetags. I thought they were sold with tags. It was,
but the tags were removed and I don't know at whatpoint in the investigation, like I don't know if
they discovered that they were removed in thedepot or at some other point, but they know that the
(18:17):
tags are missing from these specific wheels ofcheese. And so keep your keep an eye out for half her
cheese missing its tag. This, this sounds likethere's a literal chop shop. But she's been
laundered. It's been chopped into smaller bits.It's in your lunchable now. Yeah. So, as a fun
(18:42):
aside, the BBC says food related crimes, whichincludes smuggling counterfeiting and out and
out best cost the global food industry between 30and 50 billion a year or in great British pounds 23
to 38 billion. According to the World TradeOrganization, and these range from hijackings of
(19:03):
freight lorries delivering food to warehouses tothe best of 24 live lobsters from a storage pen in
Scotland. But a number of these food crimes havealso targeted the grade the cheese industry and in
particularly luxury cheese, which is notsomething I thought I would ever say. Considering
(19:24):
last week I talked about government cheese,luxury cheese feels like the opposite into that
pendulum. Yeah, you're, you know what? You'reabsolutely right. You're absolutely right. And
so, so that's my story of the great cheese robberyat 24. It is still ongoing investigation is still
happening. So I don't know who's who's behind itall. But before you ask, there have in fact been
(19:48):
other great cheese heists one in 2026 and at leastone more in 1990. And in 2026, you said, is he 2016?
Did I say 26? I've rubbed off on you. I'mprojecting. I am projecting for next year.
There's going to be a great cheese. Scott Lanyard,if there's a cheese heist in 2026, you heard it here
(20:08):
first. Angie is the ringleader. I really lovecheese. So, yeah, I don't know that any of them have
been named great as in G. R. A. T. But that's thestory of the great cheese robbery of 24. And it was
inspired by you and my cheese loving son. I'm herefor that. I really am. And now I'm going to put down
(20:33):
the shoe I'm embroidering and I will pull up mynotes. Love this for me. Okay. So my story comes
from a Tik Tok recommendation because my favoriteones do. This is from a Tik Tok user named Katie H. 31
38. And I'm going to be telling you the story ofagent zigzag. Okay, go. Excellent. My sources.
(21:02):
I'm familiar with the name. Okay, good. Agentzigzag the book by bang mac and tire warfare
history network secret agent man. The story ofEddie Chapman by Peter Cross and a couple of
podcasts. The BBC book club, Ben Mac and tire wasinterviewed. It's titled agent zigzag and then
true life spy stories from career criminal toagent zigzag. Right. Now let's go. Eddie Chapman.
(21:28):
This is the dude we're going to be working with. Hegoes by several aliases. I didn't put them in
there. Some of his like one of his aliases is like atEdwards, which I'm like, okay, could with fake and
fake or something. Johnson, you know, like, butEddie Chapman, he's the eldest of three kids. He's
born November 16th, 1914 in a small Englishvillage of Bruno Bruno field. That's probably not
(21:54):
even how you say it, but anyhow, his father runs alocal pub. It's called the clipper ship. The,
okay. Establishment doesn't do very well becausedaddy dearest tends to get high on his own supply.
Unfortunately. Yeah. So he's a bit of an alcoholicand he is said to drink more than work. As most
(22:22):
alcoholics do. Problematic. Now at 17, Eddie doesthis thing where he lies about his age, forges
paperwork, joins the army. Good for him. He enlistin the second battalion of the cold stream guards
after spending about nine months in uniform. Thecollar got a little itchy and he's granted leave
(22:45):
and he makes a beeline to love or to London and hestarts hooking up with all the chicks. He can get
his hands on. Okay. He's not that small or itchy,but it has a job. It, you know, he found the uniform
chasers and he showed them how it worked. Evenworse, he decides that he's just not going to go
(23:06):
back. He's just going to go completely AWOL. Okay.And he's eventually arrested. He spends two
months in a stockade and then when he's released,he's dishonorably discharged and he returned to
Soho and began his new career as a petty criminal.Yes. He spent two months in the stockade? Yes.
(23:31):
Like, I'm assuming like Brigg. Yeah, that makessense. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. He goes
through a series of odd jobs working as a barman.He's an extra in motion pictures. He's a dancer.
And I'm assuming that meant like dancer. A scalenightclub where he would go and like be paid by the
(23:55):
establishment to dance with young ladies to makethem stay to buy more drinks. That's my
assumption. Okay. A wrestler, basicallyanything that gives him access to booze and women.
His two great loves in this life. That'll work. Hespends most of his free time at this bar called
Smokey Joe's and he's meeting tons of the who's whoof the underworld. Okay. He gravitates quickly to
(24:23):
this, this new arena. It's during the 1930s. Hereally catapults into his second career. I love
the way you say that. Like, it's like, it's likesaying he's just going to go do that next great
thing. Yeah. And I know, but by the tone of yourvoice, that's, that's not what you mean. No, no.
(24:47):
He's breaking into homes and stealing everythinghe can get his hands on. The luxury cheese. The
luxury cheese that are just left up on the entrytable by the front door, including like, he's also
forging checks. Okay. Now, for his crimes whencaught, he's given like these little slap on the
(25:11):
resentences. And like, he serves like a two monthterm for stealing a check and then for fraud. As
soon as he's out of jail, he's rearrested fortrespassing and locked up for another three
months. So our man loved three hots in a cot. When itworks, you know, right? When it works, the book
(25:31):
refers to him as an honest villain. The best kind.Yep. Like truly, but like, okay, so they talk about
how gregarious and really charismatic he is, likethe kind of guy who could shake your hand, smile and
pick your pocket with his other hand. Yep. Okay.Now during the same period, he joins this ruthless
(25:55):
bunch of criminals called the jelly gang. Theyfound terrifying. Don't they? Now, when I first
heard this, I thought that is the dumbest gangname, but they were using a thing called Jellick
Knight, which is an explosive. Oh, so okay, it'sjust a plate. That makes sense. Yep. So their M.O.
(26:15):
is using high explosives to break into safe. I lovethis. Now he, Eddie Chapman refers to himself as a
master safe cracker, but I'm going to go out on alimb and I'm going to say if you're using
explosives, you don't necessarily need adelicate hand. Yep. Mastering that is not, it's
(26:37):
not the same as being able to like pick the lock witha bobby pin. Yeah, the fine motor skill needs. Like
your dexterity levels are much different. Yeah.So the leader of the jelly gang is this dude named
Jimmy Hunt. Chapman later will use Jimmy's namewhen he's trying to fool Germans during the war. So
(26:57):
put a pin in that. A pin in it. The jelly gangproceeds to rob various upscale stores all
throughout London. They steal from a furriernamed Isabelle's where they steal a number of minx
and caves valued at 200 pounds. And this is in the30s. Next they go to a pawnbroker where the gang
blew up four safes. They steal 15,000 pounds.Okay. Which I didn't think a pawnbroker would have
(27:24):
that much when I'm honest. Now, I mean, it sort ofmakes sense. They have to be able to pay you for the
thing that you're paunting them. Fair. Fair. Nowhe loves his work so much. He's so proud of
everything that he does that he clips thenewspaper articles about himself and the
(27:44):
robberies and he files them into a scrapbook.Dude, my dad did that. Hold up. Your dad was a petty
criminal. Yes. Sign bar. Carry on. This is theAngie story now. Okay. So what I, I don't know what
kind of trouble he would get into, but he was verywell like this. The young man, him like pre kids,
(28:09):
him like early teens, young adult, him. Yeah.Would get into so much trouble with the local like
police and Sheriff's department that they knewhim by name. And often from what I'm told, it was
like by association, like he would be arrestedbecause he was in the wrong place at the right time
with the wrong group of guys, but he may not havecommitted that day's crime. But like on more than
(28:35):
one occasion, like I remember my grandma tellingme one time, he was probably 17 or 18. The officer
showed up at his door said, Mrs. Brewer, I'm sosorry, I'm going to have to rest your son. Could you
get him to come out? And she says, yes, sir. My dadcomes out willingly. They handcuff him. He gets in
the car. No problem. Two hours later, the sameofficer arrives back at my grandma's house and
(28:57):
says, dear Mrs. Brewer, I'm so sorry. I need to restyour son again. Because my dad hopped the car. Ran
around for a couple hours and then came home andtook a map and went back the second time. Like my dad
was the real life Luke and Boduk. Like, okay. I andso every time he got in trouble in those early
(29:19):
years, he would clip the newspaper article thatwent with it and kept it like his. Like scrapbooked
style kept it. I mean, honestly, you need to redoyour family album and integrate those articles
into it. Honestly, I need to get my yes, yes, it'shis rebel yearbook. You're absolutely right.
(29:46):
100%. I will have to try to find him because thearticles are hilarious. Like in one that I can
remember off the top of my head, some friends of hislike three friends of his were involved in like a
petty. House theft and my dad like showed up whenthe theft was over and had like really no idea that
(30:07):
that had happened. But because he was with themwhen they heard the police coming, they told him to
run. So he ran and was arrested like three hourslater hiding under a bush somewhere. And every
single time it was like, dude, I wasn't even there.I mean, but I kind of was, but I really wasn't. Yeah,
every time, like just by proxy, I'm in trouble, butI guess maybe I should be your sign to get new
(30:31):
friends. Yeah, yeah, I would be. Okay, so back toEddie Chapman, Agent Zig Zig. Sorry. No, no, no. I
didn't know there were others like that.Delightful detour, happy to have got on it. So
Eddie Chapman, his scrapbook, all of that. It's sopervasive that Scotland Yard has an entire group
(30:52):
dedicated to the jelly gang. I love that. Now,before like, this was when I was doing my own notes
before, you know, you went on. Yeah, I knew you weregoing to have a delightful tangent about this. I
sit down in my notes, imagine dating a guy and goingto his home and finding his scrapbook of crimes.
It's like, oh, look, he crafts. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh,my mom kept it. That's the only reason I know it
(31:18):
exists because I found it once. Oh, okay. So this isall delicious and I love this all. We're going to go
to 1939. Eddie Chapman is doing his Nairdwellspree and the police are hot on a trail. Now members
of the jelly gang fled towards Scotland and this iswhere their luck runs out. They're trying to rob
(31:39):
the headquarters of the Edinburgh CooperativeSociety. And this is where Chapman and four others
are caught by policemen who heard the noise andinvestigated before they go to trial. The form
escaped and fled to the wilds of Jersey in theChannel Islands. OK, now Chapman's got this huge
amount of money on him. And he is now the subject ofthis huge manhunt across the marshes of Jersey
(32:02):
before being captured by the police while he'sstaying in the hotel. They'll applause. Now he and
his four friends went. But before they went, hegrabbed his side piece named Betty and they're
hanging out in the Jersey Island and they'reliving large. Like right because he's got all
kinds of cash. He's got all this cash. He sends thisletter back home to his girlfriend saying, hey,
(32:27):
honey, managing something and the policeintercept. They're like, wait a minute, wait a
minute, you're in Jersey. We'll hold on a second.We can go find you. They go to Jersey, right? Now the
side piece is this woman named Betty Farmer. Bettysees like they're in this hotel or they're in this
(32:48):
restaurant at the hotel. They're having a greattime. It's Betty, Eddie Chapman, a couple of their
members of Jelly Gang. They see the members of theplainclothes police come in and Eddie Chapman
goes, those look like the fuzz. So he leans over,kisses Betty, excuses himself to the bathroom,
climbs out the bathroom window and she gets pickedup by the police and then he's later busted. But
(33:13):
okay, please tell me she slapped him when she sawhim again. She comes back. Oh, good. Back, put a pin
in that story. Okay. Now this event gettingcaptured by the government, by the police in
Jersey. This is his life, his fuzz, the five. Now,June 1940, he's safely in jail. The German war
(33:38):
machine rolls all the way through Europe, right?France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg,
they're all under Hitler's dominion. Now, theLüwaffa, they begin to prepare for the invasion of
Great Britain and the outlying areas. Thisincludes the Channel Islands. You see where I'm
coming. Now, things happen. The Germans invade.They take over the Channel Islands. Now we've got a
(34:00):
British citizen locked up in jail, now underGerman control. My money's on him. I mean, your
money should be on him. He's fearing for hislong-term safety because he's got him and some
friends that he's made. He writes a letter to theGerman authorities in the Channel Islands and
he's like, look, look, I mean, I've been in herelong enough to be teaching myself French. Like you
(34:23):
need me and I can be a great spy for the third right.Have you seen this jawline? I mean, honestly, I'll
show you his jawline. It's this man. If your friendsaid, I met this man on hinge and showed you the
picture, you would be like, okay, kind of cute, butthe man is going to be a smarmy psychopath. So it's
(34:46):
the exact vibe I've been getting the whole timehere. Yeah. Okay. Now, so Chapman writes this
letter being like, hey, let me spy for you. Have youseen this? You've seen this? Now, he later goes on
to say, if I could work a bluff with the Germans, Icould probably be sent over to Britain, perhaps
(35:06):
with phony talk even then, but I don't pretendthere was no other modus in the plan as I began to
turn it over to my mind. They did not occur to meeither in the moment or in the mood. So he's like,
look, I'm just, I was trying to get back home. A conartist is a con artist. Right. Now he makes friends
with this dude in prison named Fairness, right?And both him and Fairness are like, Hey, yeah,
(35:29):
we're in this, we're in this. We're like, in adouble team to spy bit, it'll be like spy versus
spy, whatever it is, anyhow, they think they'regoing to do this. Now they end up, they were, they
had been arrested on these bogus charges ofcutting telephone lines on Channel Island, which
is just weird. They're put on a plane for Paris or atrain for Paris and they have no idea what's going
(35:50):
to happen, right? They're taken to this prisoncalled Fort De Romonville and it's on the
outskirts of the city and Chapman getsinterrogated by the prison staff about his
various criminal activities because there's adossier in the jail. All right, this guy, he's
back. Now, one of the men interrogating him is thisman named Dr. Stefan Grauman, who also goes by the
(36:15):
name Von Groening. Now at the time, Chapman andGrauman, they become close friends, despite
being on very different sides of the war. Okay.Okay. Like for whatever reason, these two vibe.
Now, it's during these sessions that Graumanmakes Eddie an offer. He can't refuse. He's like,
look, I'll get you your freedom and you'd likecash. You like money? I got lots of money. I'm going
(36:41):
to send you back to the prison. I don't even knowwhat to do with the money. I got, yeah. Like we've
got real money. We've got fake money. We've gotfake money that looks like real money. I, I will get
into that. Now, I'm so excited. He's like, we'regoing to, we'll send you back to Britain. We're
going to train you with, you know, all the stuffGerman intelligence can. And we're going to send
(37:03):
you on some planned ice mission or clandestinemissions. And Chapman, he's like, look, I see a
chance to get out of jail. This sounds like a greatdeal for me. I could act as a spot, not going to
necessarily actually do it, but pretend. So he'slike, I'm going to take this offer once in a
lifetime to do it for the lore. Good for him. Now,he's like, oh, man, man, Fairmas. Oh, no, no, we're
(37:25):
going to keep him here. So you act right. Yep. Okay.I mean, so Fairmas eventually gets into a cross
concentration camp. He survives the war. I'lljust float that out there. Um, and then Chapman's
taking to a new training facility in Nantes,France. And he is living the high life because the
(37:46):
Germans want to make this man loyal unto them. Sochampagne, multi-course meals. Um, he's also
trained in the fine art of espionage, wirelesscontraption or operations, hand-to-hand combat
and secret Inc. Oh, okay. Okay. Now he's trainingunder three months under the direction of
(38:08):
Lieutenant Walter Prittoria. Now he's got acouple of the names. I'm just kidding. But Chapman
basically becomes like adapted all of thesethings and he's ready for the next step in the, in
the German war. Now at one point when, in the book,when he's learning parachute jumping, he lands on
(38:28):
his face. As you do, jacks up his teeth, ends uphaving to have like, I think $6,000 in 1930s money
poured into his face. Cool. Like multiple goldteeth and people are like, we're going to throw
this in for a Brit. Like we've already spent toomuch. Take him out back and shoot him. Like we don't
(38:51):
need this. We can get other ones. Yeah. Um, so he's,he's making enemies just because the amount of
money that the right guy's spending on them, butthose teeth come in handy because unbeknownst to
everybody, uh, the German signals are beingintercepted by Bletchley Park and they hear about
this person who goes by the code named Fritschianor little Fritz who has gotten gold teeth, who's
(39:16):
gotten all this stuff done, who's going to beinfiltrating Britain. And so there's like, okay,
okay. Now Chapman never knows about BletchleyPark and everything that they've learned about
him, but put a pen in that. I'm so far building one ofthose crime boards because you should be with like
all of the strings going everywhere else. Yeah.Now, as I've kind of mentioned the unbeknownst to
(39:40):
the Abwehr and Eddie Chapman, the British know allabout his plans to enter England. They don't quite
know his actual identity, but they know his codenames. They know where he, where he's going to go.
They have an idea of his missions and they're ableto decipher the encryption that are coming
through. Now. Using their 20 committee or thedouble cross organization, the British are able
(40:04):
to turn German spies who operate against theirformer masters under the penalty of death. Most of
these spies cooperated with Britain to save theirown lives. Surprise, surprise. You know, they're
going to do what they need to do to save theirheight. So this chap, Chapman jumps out of a plane,
buries his parachute, gathers his belongings andlike basically races to the first farmhouse he can
(40:25):
get his hands on scares the hell out of this farmerand couple who most likely don't believe that he is
indeed a downed R.E .F. pilot. Right. Okay. Now heturns himself over to local police who call secret
intelligence service. And this is where Chapmantells him story about being recruited by the
Abwehr. And he's like, but, but I could turn coatwork for you guys instead. I'm actually bored with
(40:51):
them. Like they only give me champagne and take meto all the brothels when I'm bored. Yeah. I mean, I
want a good English lady. Now he is sent to a secretinstallation dubbed camp zero to zero. And this is
(41:12):
where all the German Asians are kept. Now it's notnear as luxurious as where he had been announced.
The official name of this location is the Lachmerehouse. It's a large rambling home in Hamcommon in
West London. And it's here that Eddie would betaught the intricacies of British tradecraft.
Okay. So they're like retraining him in theirstage, right? Now he tells his interrogators that
(41:39):
his primary mission given him by the Abwehr is todestroy the Daveland aircraft works. And this is
the aircraft works that's making the mosquitoairplane. Okay. I was going to ask, okay, got it.
Yeah. Now the mosquitoes made of wood. It makes itvery light, very fast, extremely maneuverable,
and it pits Hitler off. Most things do. Right. Andhe's told to blow up the facility. And so the
(42:07):
British, they could help from magician namedJasper Mescaline. I'm sorry, did you say
magician? I did. Okay. Just checking. Yes. Okay.And this magician goes into help that Chapman
pretend that he blew up the mosquito factory.Mescaline came from a family known for magical
(42:29):
talent. Now during the war that he basically does aghost army move. He helped ghost army move. Yep. He
helped the British fool the Germans by hiding theSuez Canal. I'm sorry, that wasn't your story? I
got distracted. Okay. Okay. Carry on. Time on.I'll shut up. I put a pen in that because that could
(42:57):
be the next one. Sound good? And then Mescalineworked closely with various components of the
British military, including the Air Ministry'scamouflage section. The military's can't. Nope.
The Air Ministry's camouflage section. And so Ithink you have to say it like that. I had to really
(43:20):
rock into it. Now they create a set, a false set ofexplosions that when the German reconnaissance
aircraft flies over, it actually looks like it.Like they're painting tarps to put over
everything. They're doing small explosions likethey're ghost armying it. It's really what
they're doing. Okay. So just to recap, so I know I'mfollowing the right way. He is hired by the Germans
(43:44):
to destroy this compound where they're makingthese mosquito gliders. Yep. And he makes the back
of Britain turncoats and now Britain's ghostarmying to make it look like he's done his job.
Correct. Okay. Now, Chapman does this part. Hesends a message to the Abwehr using the
(44:06):
prearranged code that had gone well. He writesFFFFF, Walter blown in two places. And when
Grownman hears the good news, he sends acongratulatory message to his favorite spy to
completely fool the Germans. The Britisharranged for false news items about the
destruction of the factory published in theLondon Daily Express. Yes. Now, the paper reaches
(44:31):
Grownman via Lisbon and he reads with interest ofhow well his master spy has done. You're not ready
for the next sentence. Oh, should I sit on my hands?Would you? For his exceptional work, the German
government awarded Eddie Chapman the iron cross.Damn it! I just... He is the only British man to
(44:59):
receive the honor. Of course. His Chapmansupervisors and teachers at Camp Zero Two Zero are
some of the most important members of the BritishSecret Service. Each one of these humans needs
their own episode. We have Colonel Robin TenaiStevenson. He's known for the monocles. Tenai
(45:21):
singular because of the monocle that he wears,reportedly even in bed. Perfect. Captain Ronnie
Reed, who is an expert in wireless radios. AndRonnie Reed in the book is described as so benignly
average looking that you could lose him in a crowd.He was like a quintessential spy because he was so
(45:43):
not noteworthy. Okay, sometimes that's souseful. But that's not how you want somebody to
describe you. No, but I could see how it'd beuseful. Right. There's one British officer who
wants nothing to do with Chapman and he comes intothe story at the end, but I couldn't find a logical
way to believe men. So here we go. And his name is Dr.Michael... Or Major Michael Wright. He's, I
(46:08):
guess, technically like Chapman's handler, butthey hate each other so intensely and instantly.
Sometimes you just vibe with somebody andsometimes you don't. Right. Like Wright hates the
fact that Chapman gets bored and says, I need you totake me to brothels because I'm tired and bored and
(46:29):
lonely. And Wright is like, but my upstandingpuritanical heart says no. I am the son of Oliver
Cromwell. We don't have Christmas. That'sbasically what's happening here. Right. So they
both like really just don't jive. Now, Wright...It could be funny that by the end of the story,
they're like best mates. No, they're not. Okay.Wright writes to a man named Thomas Robertson who
(46:58):
baby sat Chapman through his ladder seat inEngland, quote, the zigzag case needs to be closed
down at the earliest possible moment. Oh, I shouldhave mentioned. Chapman is nicknamed zigzag or
agent zigzag because he was so good at crossingthat he could just cross back at the other moment.
Right. Yeah. Now, when Chapman... I've mentionedthis maybe once or twice. Chapman loved the
(47:25):
ladies. Love the ladies. No, I forgot that you saidthat. When he was... When he went to Jersey in the
first place, he was dating this woman and heknocked her up. You'd been living with her and he
knocked her up and then he gets put in jail and allthat kind of stuff. Well, she ends up having a baby
and he... In Guernsey? What was that? No, not inJersey. Is this a woman from Guernsey? Oh, no. This
(47:48):
is the one in London or in the... Gotcha. On themainland. Now, when he goes over to Norway with the
Germans, he falls in love with this Norwegianwoman who ends up being a part of the Norwegian
resistance named Dagmar Lollum. And... Okay. Heends up just falling head over heels in love with
(48:17):
this woman. He later confides to Dagmar that he's aBritish agent and she ends up keeping this to
herself. And they would do this thing where he knewhe wanted to give the British information about
all these military installations. So he wouldtake his young hot girlfriend, have her pose in
front of these military installations, takepictures of her and then send those pictures.
(48:39):
Right. Because nobody's going to question youtaking a picture of a pretty girl. Dun, dun, dun.
Yeah. Now, the girl back home that he got knockedup, her name's Frida. They have a baby named Diane
that he ends up not meeting until she's like three.When he goes back to Britain, he ends up saying, I
(48:59):
need to find Frida and Diane. I need to see mydaughter for the first time in my life. She's
already a toddler, the satin, the other. This isabsolutely insane. Okay. Because I should say
first, he sees Frida and Diane when he's in Britainand he goes to the training. He's like, I'm a double
agent. I need to find my baby and my baby's mama.He's living in a house with members of like the
(49:27):
police force with MI5 coming to check on himregularly and his baby mama and baby. Okay. They
are paying for his upkeep. Of course they are. WhenGermany says we need you to come back here, he tells
MI5, I need you to take care of Frida and the baby andgive them monthly stipends so they can live. And
(49:48):
MI5 says that. So he goes back to Germany, does moretraining there, is sent to Norway, is partying
over there, sleeping with this nice hot woman,sending pictures back to MI5. Then he's going to
get put on a mission back into Britain. So he tellsthe Abwehr, I've been taking care of Dagmar. I need
(50:12):
you to guys to put her up and give her a monthlystipend. So he's got like, oh my God, okay, carry
on. This man has a host in different area codes andmakes various governments pay for them. I love
this for him. Good for him. I mean, it is just like,what? Now, remind me to circle back on Betty
(50:35):
Farmer, the woman he abandoned the hotel. Yeah.Because I'm going to hold on to that one real quick.
When the Abwehr tells Chapman to return toGermany, the British government goes, you have
her blessing. Godspeed. Do the thing. Yeah. And sohe goes spend some time in Oslo, Norway, and that's
(51:00):
where he meets Dagmar. And he ends up taking themoney that the Germans give him and he buys a yacht.
He learns how to sail it. Okay. Yeah. And at onepoint he offers his services to kill Adolf Hitler
by exploding a bomb when they attend a rallybecause he's chatting with Von Groening. And
(51:22):
Groening offers to take him to a rally and Groeninghas no love lost for Hitler. Right. And so, you
know, Chapman's like, well, basically I couldkill him. Well, I could take him to a rally if you
want to allow the bomb at him kind of deal. Now, withall of that going on, when Eddie Chapman told
(51:45):
Ronnie Reed, one of his handlers in England aboutit, it was Ronnie Reed who was like, ooh, I would not
do that because you're going to die. You're goingto die no matter what, even if you're successful or
not. Chapman responds, ah, but what a way out. LikeChapman is just like, do it for the lore. Do it for
(52:06):
the lore. All of it. Every bit of it. Now WinstonChurchill is told about the zigzag case. And Duff
Cooper, who is the leading member of the BritishIntelligence establishment, he said he had
discussed the case of zigzag at some length withthe prime minister who showed considerable
(52:28):
interest because this is Winston Churchill, wholoves Ungernemaly Warfare. Yes, he does. And we
couldn't love him more for it. Right. Now 1944,Grauman or von Groening, same same, the same
person, tells Chapman that he's going back toEngland for another intelligence mission. Now
the ad war still doesn't know that he's a doubleagent. And it's under this next assignment that
(52:52):
he's going to learn about Britain's latestefforts to attack the German U-boats. Because the
German U-boats are going down so hard and so fast,the Germans are afraid they've got some special
radar, maybe in planes, maybe like there'ssomething happening. And I'm like, we need you to
go through and figure it out because we're losingtoo many. Now, he's also told to report on the
(53:14):
effectiveness of the V-1 buzz bombs or the doodlebugs that are just wiping out London. And what is
happening is when he gets back to London, and hetells the MI5 what's happening, what his mission
is, they realize that they could give false dropcoordinates about what attack to start leading
(53:36):
them further away from the center of town. Okay. Soby continuing to say, oh, well, this blew up, they
keep moving these bombs further and further intothe countryside. Okay. Which really just shows
how effective this man was. Yeah. And howbrilliant like British intelligence is in the
(53:59):
first place. Like truth. Truth. Yeah. So Chapmanmakes it back to England June 29th, 1944. He's
dropped by a German plane over England near thetown of Cambridge and he ends up making his way back
to local police. And Chapman told his handlersabout his new mission and like, hey, look, I've got
(54:23):
to get all this information about doodle bugs.Let's work together. But now he's super
irritable, very tense. He wants to go back intoParis. He wants to do undercover operations and
MI5 vetoes it. And they decide, you know,Chapman's basically more trouble than he's
worth. We should just end it all completely. Justcut ties. It's been fun. It's been real, but it
(54:48):
hasn't been real fun. And in November of 44, he'sinformed that his services are no longer needed.
And he's left with 6,000 pounds in cash from theBritish. And 1,000 pounds that remained from the
money given to him by the Abwehr. Grownman failedto hear from Chapman after several long months of
waiting, believing that his prize agent had beenkilled or captured. Unfortunate on their part
(55:13):
because he's probably just laying on the beachsomewhere. I mean, you say that. After the war
ends, he returns to his career in crime. He'sreally good at it. He dabbled in black market
activities. I didn't sell luxury cheese.Probably. He's running protection rackets in
(55:36):
London. And he joins up with some of his old palsfrom before who kind of landed him a jail in the
first place. Now, remember Betty Farmer, thewoman he left at the hotel when he was arrested?
Yeah, I was going to ask about her. He joins back upwith her. They have a daughter named Suzanne.
She's born in October of 54. And he illegallytransports gold across the Mediterranean and
(56:00):
buys a share of a ship called the Flamingo, which isused for a whole host of illegal activities. And in
the 60s, the family moved to South Africa. Ofcourse they do. Now, of course they do. In 1966,
Eddie writes a memoir called The Real EddieChapman Story. And he's got to leave a ton of info
(56:21):
out because telling everybody what reallyhappened would be violating the Official Secrets
Act. And this is heavily impressed upon him.That's why Major Carriola has never said
anything. Truth. So when the book comes out, it'skind of a flop because it doesn't have enough
(56:44):
detail to make it sensational and bombastic. So itjust kind of like, really, this sounds like a
half-hearted lie. But his story is made into amovie called Triple Cross starring Christopher
Plummer. And Agent Zigzag dies in December of 1997at the age of 83. But his files are declassified in
(57:09):
2001. There's 1,500 pages of reports. I want toread them all. Well, and it's partly because of
that declassification that Ben McIntyre was ableto go through, find them and write this book. And in
one of the interviews, he said that because thesereports were written by government for
(57:29):
government under the assumption nobody would seethis, they are so truthful. That's so fun. Yep. So
fun. But that is the story of Eddie Chapman, akaAgent Zigzag. Thank you for that. I loved every
(57:50):
second of that. And I'm still trying to figure outwhat side he was actually on. I have a feeling he,
and this is something that like the book reallygrapples with. Basically, what Ben McIntyre is
under the assumption of is that Eddie Chapman wasprimarily on the British side, but he was on Eddie
Chapman's side. Yeah. That's kind of the vibe thatI've been getting. Like, I'm on whatever side's
(58:14):
going to pay me. Right. Because I'm FreddieChapman. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I want to know what
happened to the first girlfriend and Dagmar andeverybody else that he... Dagmar never, like
Eddie Chapman promises to go back to for Dagmar. Henever does. And so she ends up never having a very
(58:37):
solid relationship after that with anybody else.Gotcha. Fair. Fair. Okay. As for Frida and the
baby, they end up getting... Like, I think Fridamarries somebody else after the war. If I'm not
mistaken, I'm going from memory now. And thegovernment continues to give Frida a monthly
check for like years. That's awesome. Which thatis... I love that. I love it. But yeah, but at least
(59:04):
he went back to Betty, but apparently was fiercelyunfaithful throughout the entirety of their
marriage. Shocking. I know. But I've seen that onecoming, I think. At his daughter's wedding, he
invites fun grooming. Like, they are friends.Like, to the point where like, please come to my
(59:25):
daughter's wedding. Yeah. What a whack job. Thatis hilarious. And this wasn't his daughter got
married in the 60s. She was born in 54. So probablythe 70s. Maybe, yeah. I mean, I didn't write down
(59:46):
when the wedding was. Either way, that's nuts.That's so funny. Gross. I know. I know. Thank you
for that. Yeah. R over to Spy. Surprise, surprise.I'm shocked. I'm shook even. Well, if Gabbers are
flasted. If you need your Gabbers flastedoccasionally, or you want to have, you know, the
(01:00:12):
shock, wipe and astound you, you should write,review, subscribe. Join us next week. Send this to
somebody who also loves World War II spies, even ifthey don't. And cheese. And on that note, goodbye.
Bye.
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