July 22, 2022 • 18 mins
VHB Hosts Dave Mulholland and Steve Anderson are joined by Kathleen Kewley, Director of Global Business Development for AEC at ESRI, for the first in a two-part conversation about digital twins and connected data environments. Find out how communities are using digital twins to simulate virtual, data-informed representations of their neighborhoods and infrastructure to enhance decision-making, innovation, and resilience.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
(Dave Mulholland)This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief
Technology Officer, and I’m one of your hosts for ViewpointsPodcast
—Episode Three- Digital Twins and the Connected Data Environment.
I’m joined by co-hostSteve Anderson, VHB Vice President of Technology Services,
for a conversation with Kathleen Kewley,the Director of Global Business Development for AEC at ESRI.
(00:47):
Kathleen, thanks so much for joining Steve and I today.
Kathleen, for our Viewpointslisteners who don’t know ESRI, tell us more
about your role at ESRIand what you are doing in the digital twin space:
(Kathleen Kewley)Thanks Dave.
Yeah, so I am the director for AEC,
part of the ESRI Global Business Development Team.
So, I lead a team who sets the strategy
(01:09):
and go to market uh for AEC uh for us as a sector.
And uh my teams working a lot with our customers
to help support their business requirements and so on.
So um, uh I joined ESRI three years ago.
So in the world of Azeri, I'm actually a newbiebecause everybody's
(01:30):
been there for a long time and it's been so much fun.
I'm super excited.
My other hat that I wear isI hope to lead our digital twin strategy.
And I think why I was invited here today.
And yeah, I'm based in Vancouver, so I'm just up north
of the border.
(Dave Mulholland)Well, thank you so much for joining us, Kathleen.
(01:52):
Yeah.
Steve, can you actually for the audience, actually,describe your role at VPI
and then maybe also give some examplesof what the HP is doing in the space as well?
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
So I'm the director of Technology Enablement at VHB,
so I wear two different hats as well, like Kathleen.
One of those is to work with our plannersand scientists and engineers
(02:13):
that understand different technologiesthat are available to them and help them come up with programs
and training programs to help themuse that technology on the projects that they work on.
And the second side is our external technical technologyservices practice,
and that's where we actually can help a community
or another clientwho's thinking about implementing a digital twin
(02:35):
and actually take them through the processthat they should go through.
So taking a thought wise processto actually plan for and implement the digital twin.
(Dave Mulholland)So I wanted to start
out with a question about what is a digital twin?
A generic definition,and it means different things to different folks.
So Kathleen, maybe starting with youfrom your perspective of what a what is a digital twin?
(02:58):
What is it, two Essery.
And then, Steve, same question to you.
What does a digital twin mean to VHB?
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah. So thanks, Dave.
So a digital twin is really that virtual representation
of an asset or an object
or a city could be anything.
Right, that
(03:18):
allows us to visualize
and then simulate or automate actions
and really has that bi directional connection.
And from our perspective,
the digital twin is really about bringing together
both the built and the natural environments
or worlds, as we would say, bringing together the natural world.
(03:42):
We think that is a critical piece of any digital twin
and that's really what we promote as part of our viewand our vision for digital twins.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think similar to what Kathleen saying,
I think, you know, from our perspective,a digital twin is a virtual representation of the world
(04:03):
and one of the important aspects of isit has to accurately reflect all those physical features.
So it's not just a 10tha model, it's actually an accurate representation of the world.
Things like the location, the shape, the materialsthat the different objects within it are made out of it.
But one of the other important pointsis that there's data flowing
within a digital twin, and it's the data that really gives it thethe more of the intelligence
(04:28):
to actually make the decisions that you're going to use it forthat are there.
And, you know, the last part about itis it's really important that you can think about a digital twin
as something that could be programed to help you make decisions.
So it could be set up so that if a certain condition is met,
it sends an alert for you to draw your attention to it.
You could tie in things like AI and machine learningwhere it could say, well, if this condition actually exists,
(04:53):
just don't tell me about it, actually fix the problemand take an action and have that done automatically.
(Dave Mulholland)Digital Twins, they've been around for a while in terms of the advance analytics and where they are. So
is it new? Why?
Why is this a new concept to folks today?
Because it seems like it's actually,you know, getting out in the market today.
And we're hearing more about what a digital twin is.
(05:14):
But there's a lot of history behind these digital twins.
I think a lot of it started with the gaming engines way backwhen and have been evolving.
But, you know, why is this new today for folksin terms of the industry and why such a momentum?
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think one of the reasons is there there are so many different technologies
that are being used inside of a digital twinthat they've all kind of converged at this point
(05:34):
and matured enough where you couldthey actually can all come together and actually
make a digital twin work where some of these other oneswere a lot less mature in the past.
So they actually couldn't make, you know,be functionally operational to actually make a twin work.
(Kathleen Kewley)Especially as we get into that simulation and the A.I.
(05:55):
and those types of capabilities.
I think that and there's still so much more we can do.
But to your point, Steve,the technology is at a point where it's much easier
or there's a way we can actually execute on these now.
(Dave Mulholland)Kathleen, you used the term simulation.
And I know the advanced analytics under the digital twincan replicate through similar simulations once.
(06:18):
What's the difference between a digital twin, a 3D modeland maybe simulation?
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah.
So I think it's interestingwhen you think about going back to that definition
of the digital twinbecause to some people they would say a visual model
could be a digital twin, but then others would
say, well, no, it has to have that back and forth.
(06:39):
Connection where you're starting to actually simulate
and be able to model those things that may happen,
maybe predictive analytics or or things that
you're trying to understand for future planning,
mitigating risk and those things.
So I, I think that when we look at the maturity levelsof a digital twin,
(07:04):
you know, there's more of the basic sort of 3D visualizationvision
moving all the way through to simulation automation, et cetera.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
Kathleen,I think that, you know, you mentioned this before the location,
but to me that's like one of the biggest differencesbetween a simulation and a digital twin.
A simulation could just be anywhere, doesn't,you know, any space.
(07:28):
You know, a lot of the industrial simulations
that are done are just not really in the real world.
But for a digital twin,you've got to add that locational component.
So you could see all those pieces come together.
And I think that's one of the things that really differentiates
a simulation between a digital twin and a simulation.
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah, great point, right?
Having that context is so critical.
(07:49):
(Dave Mulholland)I feel very fortunate to actually present at the the partner
conference out there and Palm Springs with advisory.
It was a great opportunity for VHB to be
sitting on the panel and in the panel discussionthat I was sitting on, which was on digital technology,
you know, we had a conversation about misconceptions and mythsand in the Digital Twins,
one of the things that became really apparent to me
(08:12):
in the digital twin world is that really not one environment,
not one platform can actually handle everythingthat everybody's trying to do.
So what are some of those big, high levelmisconceptions that you guys are hearing in the industry?
Maybe some of the myths of what a digital twin isand what it isn't.
(Kathleen Kewley)What we hear a lot is that a digital twin has to be 3-D.
(08:34):
And I think that from our perspective,
I've been looking at how digital twinshave been used in the past.
To your point, you know, digital twin doesn't
I don't thinkand I think we would say it does not have to be 3-D.
Right?
It doesn't have to have this whole fancy visualization.
I think it's really the outcomes that matter.
(08:55):
And if you're able to have that, whether it be,
you know, a network model or somethingthat's in 2D that's connected to other systems, too,
that allows for decisionmaking and allows you to start using it to
to address the business outcomes that you want to achieve.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I agree, Kathleen.
(09:15):
I think that that conceptthat a lot of people think it has to be a 3D model
or it is just a model of the world
that I and I think, you know, the misconception, too, isif you don't have the data
that's actually flowing through that model,whether it's 2D or 3D, then you can't make decisions with things.
So it's you know, that's one of the big differentiators to me
(09:35):
is that it actually has that data flowing now flowing through it.
(Dave Mulholland)One of the unique opportunities, you know, that you're seeing with the digital twins
and the digital technology,Steven, is combining what you and Kathleen are saying.
Right.
It does not have to be a three dimensionalit can be two dimensional.
And the unique opportunity
that the digital twin creates is these use cases solving
(09:57):
extremely complex analytical challenges
that our clients are seeing using that data, Steve,that you're referring to.
Right.
And to me, that's the opportunitywhat, you know, the AC space actually brings to bear.
Right?
They have the opportunity to leverage this very complex system
to actually solvesome really analytical, high level technical details.
(10:17):
The question is, how do you guys see the easy spaceactually using a digital twin today?
(Steve Anderson)I think
the the most common digital twins that I'm seeing are really
have been focused more on the utility spacethat seems to be where it's started.
So the water system, sewer systems, smart grids
and energy systems that are there.
(10:38):
But I actually think, you know,as they're getting more advanced now,
they're becoming more of a holistic world of,you know, look at the world or the community that you're in.
So, you know, being able to look at whether you could changezoning and see if what the traffic impacts are.
Utility impacts,educational impacts are so really something that covers
the entire area or an entire region.
(11:01):
(Dave Mulholland)How big do you see digital twins going today?
Tomorrow, you know, because how big is the ecosystem goingto get it that you're actually pulling into these digital twins?
Are we going to actually be modeling an entire state one dayor are we going to be modeling just a campus?
(Kathleen Kewley)I think we could.
Right.
And this ties into the future vision around the metaverse,I think, where, you know,
(11:24):
things start to get even more connected.
But I think one of the things
that would have to happen is, you know,
who owns the twin, who maintains the twin?
I think. Right.
Once you create a twin, there has to be a process in place
to help maintain it and to make sure that it's current.
(11:45):
It's up to date and there's ownership.
And then how do we collaborate?
I think that's one of the things that Digital Twins offer us
and is so great is this collaboration platform for,
you know, communicating across different stakeholders.
But it would take people coming together to be able to share that
(12:06):
and to really work together in a in a format
and a standard that would allow for all of these worlds
to be connected or twins to be connected.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
You know, I don't think they'll ever be you know,there will be one twin that is the one and only twin that exists.
It's going to be a whole bunch of puzzle piecesthat are actually coming together
that are used for different thingsin different granularity to solve the problems.
(12:30):
(Kathleen Kewley)You have the great work that you guys do, right?
That is going to be able to help customers
and agencies be able to recognize the value of thisand to help them
connect and build these these systems of systems.
As you said, Steve.
(Dave Mulholland)The terminology I liked on this was puzzle pieces.
(12:52):
Digital twins are very complicated. Yeah.
And we talked about, you know, starting small, going big.
Some agencies tried to go,you know, extremely big, extremely wide.
How does a company or a municipalityget started with the digital twin?
(Steve Anderson)I think that, you know, looking at trying to develop
a comprehensive digital twin all at once is just a daunting task.
(13:15):
And I think if you take that approach,you have to do everything everywhere all at once.
You're never actually going to get started.
But I think if you understand the prioritiesthat are most important to you or your community or,
you know, the entity that's trying to create thisand you establish those priorities,
it'll let you prioritize what you need to doand where you should get started on that
(13:36):
and then build on it or over time, rather than thinking about,I can't even get started unless I do the whole thing all at once.
(Kathleen Kewley)I think that,
you know, coming from the technology
provider side, you know, we often hear
customers or companies that say, you know,
I want to build a digital twin of this facility.
(13:56):
Right. But we haven't really defined the why.
And I think that understandingwhy you need a digital twin or what
what what the outcomes of the twin are are so critical.
And sometimes that's an important step that gets missed.
(Dave Mulholland)So, Kathleen, I mean, you talked about being a provider.
And Steve, I mean, this this is an opportunity for the listeners
(14:18):
to really understandwhat ESRI is doing in the digital twin space.
Now, what do companies like VHB and as replacing
the space your vendor on this in terms of providing the platform?
And Steve, I guess you're on the consulting side.
How do we work together to really evolvewhat a digital twin is for clients?
(Kathleen Kewley)For us you know, we we build this great technology
(14:40):
and from an ESRI perspective, we've
our customers have been creating digital twins for a long time.
Right?
Whether that be land information model or, you know,
a land twin
you know, connecting in around GIS, so, connecting GIS and BIM.
(15:02):
Right. Building information modeling.
Planning twins.
You mentioned planning so, you know,we have all these different application,
but it really takes working with you, our partners,
and VHB, to go out and you guys make it practical, right?
You are the ones who I think are doing the heavy lifting and
(15:22):
and taking our technology and really making sure that you know,
their use cases and the business valueand the real world applications come to life.
We're passionateabout the fact that location is important and it's critical.
And we need to be thinking
from a digital twin perspective in context, right?
(15:44):
We need to have that context and to be bringing both
the built and the natural world together.
(Steve Anderson)And I agree.
I think when when when we think about it, it's not any one
platform, any one piece of softwarewe have to kind of know all of those different pieces
and how those different toolscan be used to bring the comprehensive picture together.
(16:04):
So, you know, ESRI's GIS technologyfor providing the locational context,
you know, BIM technology that could be usedfor doing the buildings in the interiors of the buildings,
civil 3D technology that helps us understand the infrastructure
and how those pieces come together and then model based design
so you can actually look into the future and actually go, OK,this is what we're proposing to do.
(16:26):
How does that actually fit in as a piece of that puzzlethat comes together?
So that's what we have to do is actually understandall the different types of technologies
and puzzle pieces and help help clients, customersactually bring them all together, tell the whole story.
(Dave Mulholland)So, Steve, with that story, what are the benefits
of using a digital twin to plan and design.
(16:48):
(Steve Anderson)So to me, I think you're really able to take that comprehensive
look at the whole picture of what is going to be affectedwhen you do this in a design project.
So you might be proposing, you know, a new roadway or changing
zoning in a community,and you want to understand what that impact is.
And it isn't just that parcel of land that you're affecting,but it's that whole ecosystem
(17:12):
that's getting affected across the whole communityby making this change does it change water and sewer needs?
Does it change educational needs?
Does it change power needs?
You know, recycling needs, things like that.
So it actually lets you take a much broaderlook at what the effect of a project is going to be.
(Dave Mulholland)Kathleen, it's been great
speaking with you today about digital twinsand connected data environments.
(17:35):
Our conversation with ESRI is not over.
We'll be talking moreabout how digital twin technologies are elevating
sustainability and equity in our communities across the US
in a future Viewpoints episode with Steve and Kathleen.
Stay tuned and I hope you'll join us.
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
(Dave Mulholland)This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief
Technology Officer, and I’m one of your hosts for ViewpointsPodcast
—Episode Three- Digital Twins and the Connected Data Environment.
I’m joined by co-hostSteve Anderson, VHB Vice President of Technology Services,
for a conversation with Kathleen Kewley,the Director of Global Business Development for AEC at ESRI.
(00:47):
Kathleen, thanks so much for joining Steve and I today.
Kathleen, for our Viewpointslisteners who don’t know ESRI, tell us more
about your role at ESRIand what you are doing in the digital twin space:
(Kathleen Kewley)Thanks Dave.
Yeah, so I am the director for AEC,
part of the ESRI Global Business Development Team.
So, I lead a team who sets the strategy
(01:09):
and go to market uh for AEC uh for us as a sector.
And uh my teams working a lot with our customers
to help support their business requirements and so on.
So um, uh I joined ESRI three years ago.
So in the world of Azeri, I'm actually a newbiebecause everybody's
(01:30):
been there for a long time and it's been so much fun.
I'm super excited.
My other hat that I wear isI hope to lead our digital twin strategy.
And I think why I was invited here today.
And yeah, I'm based in Vancouver, so I'm just up north
of the border.
(Dave Mulholland)Well, thank you so much for joining us, Kathleen.
(01:52):
Yeah.
Steve, can you actually for the audience, actually,describe your role at VPI
and then maybe also give some examplesof what the HP is doing in the space as well?
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
So I'm the director of Technology Enablement at VHB,
so I wear two different hats as well, like Kathleen.
One of those is to work with our plannersand scientists and engineers
(02:13):
that understand different technologiesthat are available to them and help them come up with programs
and training programs to help themuse that technology on the projects that they work on.
And the second side is our external technical technologyservices practice,
and that's where we actually can help a community
or another clientwho's thinking about implementing a digital twin
(02:35):
and actually take them through the processthat they should go through.
So taking a thought wise processto actually plan for and implement the digital twin.
(Dave Mulholland)So I wanted to start
out with a question about what is a digital twin?
A generic definition,and it means different things to different folks.
So Kathleen, maybe starting with youfrom your perspective of what a what is a digital twin?
(02:58):
What is it, two Essery.
And then, Steve, same question to you.
What does a digital twin mean to VHB?
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah. So thanks, Dave.
So a digital twin is really that virtual representation
of an asset or an object
or a city could be anything.
Right, that
(03:18):
allows us to visualize
and then simulate or automate actions
and really has that bi directional connection.
And from our perspective,
the digital twin is really about bringing together
both the built and the natural environments
or worlds, as we would say, bringing together the natural world.
(03:42):
We think that is a critical piece of any digital twin
and that's really what we promote as part of our viewand our vision for digital twins.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think similar to what Kathleen saying,
I think, you know, from our perspective,a digital twin is a virtual representation of the world
(04:03):
and one of the important aspects of isit has to accurately reflect all those physical features.
So it's not just a 10tha model, it's actually an accurate representation of the world.
Things like the location, the shape, the materialsthat the different objects within it are made out of it.
But one of the other important pointsis that there's data flowing
within a digital twin, and it's the data that really gives it thethe more of the intelligence
(04:28):
to actually make the decisions that you're going to use it forthat are there.
And, you know, the last part about itis it's really important that you can think about a digital twin
as something that could be programed to help you make decisions.
So it could be set up so that if a certain condition is met,
it sends an alert for you to draw your attention to it.
You could tie in things like AI and machine learningwhere it could say, well, if this condition actually exists,
(04:53):
just don't tell me about it, actually fix the problemand take an action and have that done automatically.
(Dave Mulholland)Digital Twins, they've been around for a while in terms of the advance analytics and where they are. So
is it new? Why?
Why is this a new concept to folks today?
Because it seems like it's actually,you know, getting out in the market today.
And we're hearing more about what a digital twin is.
(05:14):
But there's a lot of history behind these digital twins.
I think a lot of it started with the gaming engines way backwhen and have been evolving.
But, you know, why is this new today for folksin terms of the industry and why such a momentum?
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think one of the reasons is there there are so many different technologies
that are being used inside of a digital twinthat they've all kind of converged at this point
(05:34):
and matured enough where you couldthey actually can all come together and actually
make a digital twin work where some of these other oneswere a lot less mature in the past.
So they actually couldn't make, you know,be functionally operational to actually make a twin work.
(Kathleen Kewley)Especially as we get into that simulation and the A.I.
(05:55):
and those types of capabilities.
I think that and there's still so much more we can do.
But to your point, Steve,the technology is at a point where it's much easier
or there's a way we can actually execute on these now.
(Dave Mulholland)Kathleen, you used the term simulation.
And I know the advanced analytics under the digital twincan replicate through similar simulations once.
(06:18):
What's the difference between a digital twin, a 3D modeland maybe simulation?
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah.
So I think it's interestingwhen you think about going back to that definition
of the digital twinbecause to some people they would say a visual model
could be a digital twin, but then others would
say, well, no, it has to have that back and forth.
(06:39):
Connection where you're starting to actually simulate
and be able to model those things that may happen,
maybe predictive analytics or or things that
you're trying to understand for future planning,
mitigating risk and those things.
So I, I think that when we look at the maturity levelsof a digital twin,
(07:04):
you know, there's more of the basic sort of 3D visualizationvision
moving all the way through to simulation automation, et cetera.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
Kathleen,I think that, you know, you mentioned this before the location,
but to me that's like one of the biggest differencesbetween a simulation and a digital twin.
A simulation could just be anywhere, doesn't,you know, any space.
(07:28):
You know, a lot of the industrial simulations
that are done are just not really in the real world.
But for a digital twin,you've got to add that locational component.
So you could see all those pieces come together.
And I think that's one of the things that really differentiates
a simulation between a digital twin and a simulation.
(Kathleen Kewley)Yeah, great point, right?
Having that context is so critical.
(07:49):
(Dave Mulholland)I feel very fortunate to actually present at the the partner
conference out there and Palm Springs with advisory.
It was a great opportunity for VHB to be
sitting on the panel and in the panel discussionthat I was sitting on, which was on digital technology,
you know, we had a conversation about misconceptions and mythsand in the Digital Twins,
one of the things that became really apparent to me
(08:12):
in the digital twin world is that really not one environment,
not one platform can actually handle everythingthat everybody's trying to do.
So what are some of those big, high levelmisconceptions that you guys are hearing in the industry?
Maybe some of the myths of what a digital twin isand what it isn't.
(Kathleen Kewley)What we hear a lot is that a digital twin has to be 3-D.
(08:34):
And I think that from our perspective,
I've been looking at how digital twinshave been used in the past.
To your point, you know, digital twin doesn't
I don't thinkand I think we would say it does not have to be 3-D.
Right?
It doesn't have to have this whole fancy visualization.
I think it's really the outcomes that matter.
(08:55):
And if you're able to have that, whether it be,
you know, a network model or somethingthat's in 2D that's connected to other systems, too,
that allows for decisionmaking and allows you to start using it to
to address the business outcomes that you want to achieve.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I agree, Kathleen.
(09:15):
I think that that conceptthat a lot of people think it has to be a 3D model
or it is just a model of the world
that I and I think, you know, the misconception, too, isif you don't have the data
that's actually flowing through that model,whether it's 2D or 3D, then you can't make decisions with things.
So it's you know, that's one of the big differentiators to me
(09:35):
is that it actually has that data flowing now flowing through it.
(Dave Mulholland)One of the unique opportunities, you know, that you're seeing with the digital twins
and the digital technology,Steven, is combining what you and Kathleen are saying.
Right.
It does not have to be a three dimensionalit can be two dimensional.
And the unique opportunity
that the digital twin creates is these use cases solving
(09:57):
extremely complex analytical challenges
that our clients are seeing using that data, Steve,that you're referring to.
Right.
And to me, that's the opportunitywhat, you know, the AC space actually brings to bear.
Right?
They have the opportunity to leverage this very complex system
to actually solvesome really analytical, high level technical details.
(10:17):
The question is, how do you guys see the easy spaceactually using a digital twin today?
(Steve Anderson)I think
the the most common digital twins that I'm seeing are really
have been focused more on the utility spacethat seems to be where it's started.
So the water system, sewer systems, smart grids
and energy systems that are there.
(10:38):
But I actually think, you know,as they're getting more advanced now,
they're becoming more of a holistic world of,you know, look at the world or the community that you're in.
So, you know, being able to look at whether you could changezoning and see if what the traffic impacts are.
Utility impacts,educational impacts are so really something that covers
the entire area or an entire region.
(11:01):
(Dave Mulholland)How big do you see digital twins going today?
Tomorrow, you know, because how big is the ecosystem goingto get it that you're actually pulling into these digital twins?
Are we going to actually be modeling an entire state one dayor are we going to be modeling just a campus?
(Kathleen Kewley)I think we could.
Right.
And this ties into the future vision around the metaverse,I think, where, you know,
(11:24):
things start to get even more connected.
But I think one of the things
that would have to happen is, you know,
who owns the twin, who maintains the twin?
I think. Right.
Once you create a twin, there has to be a process in place
to help maintain it and to make sure that it's current.
(11:45):
It's up to date and there's ownership.
And then how do we collaborate?
I think that's one of the things that Digital Twins offer us
and is so great is this collaboration platform for,
you know, communicating across different stakeholders.
But it would take people coming together to be able to share that
(12:06):
and to really work together in a in a format
and a standard that would allow for all of these worlds
to be connected or twins to be connected.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah.
You know, I don't think they'll ever be you know,there will be one twin that is the one and only twin that exists.
It's going to be a whole bunch of puzzle piecesthat are actually coming together
that are used for different thingsin different granularity to solve the problems.
(12:30):
(Kathleen Kewley)You have the great work that you guys do, right?
That is going to be able to help customers
and agencies be able to recognize the value of thisand to help them
connect and build these these systems of systems.
As you said, Steve.
(Dave Mulholland)The terminology I liked on this was puzzle pieces.
(12:52):
Digital twins are very complicated. Yeah.
And we talked about, you know, starting small, going big.
Some agencies tried to go,you know, extremely big, extremely wide.
How does a company or a municipalityget started with the digital twin?
(Steve Anderson)I think that, you know, looking at trying to develop
a comprehensive digital twin all at once is just a daunting task.
(13:15):
And I think if you take that approach,you have to do everything everywhere all at once.
You're never actually going to get started.
But I think if you understand the prioritiesthat are most important to you or your community or,
you know, the entity that's trying to create thisand you establish those priorities,
it'll let you prioritize what you need to doand where you should get started on that
(13:36):
and then build on it or over time, rather than thinking about,I can't even get started unless I do the whole thing all at once.
(Kathleen Kewley)I think that,
you know, coming from the technology
provider side, you know, we often hear
customers or companies that say, you know,
I want to build a digital twin of this facility.
(13:56):
Right. But we haven't really defined the why.
And I think that understandingwhy you need a digital twin or what
what what the outcomes of the twin are are so critical.
And sometimes that's an important step that gets missed.
(Dave Mulholland)So, Kathleen, I mean, you talked about being a provider.
And Steve, I mean, this this is an opportunity for the listeners
(14:18):
to really understandwhat ESRI is doing in the digital twin space.
Now, what do companies like VHB and as replacing
the space your vendor on this in terms of providing the platform?
And Steve, I guess you're on the consulting side.
How do we work together to really evolvewhat a digital twin is for clients?
(Kathleen Kewley)For us you know, we we build this great technology
(14:40):
and from an ESRI perspective, we've
our customers have been creating digital twins for a long time.
Right?
Whether that be land information model or, you know,
a land twin
you know, connecting in around GIS, so, connecting GIS and BIM.
(15:02):
Right. Building information modeling.
Planning twins.
You mentioned planning so, you know,we have all these different application,
but it really takes working with you, our partners,
and VHB, to go out and you guys make it practical, right?
You are the ones who I think are doing the heavy lifting and
(15:22):
and taking our technology and really making sure that you know,
their use cases and the business valueand the real world applications come to life.
We're passionateabout the fact that location is important and it's critical.
And we need to be thinking
from a digital twin perspective in context, right?
(15:44):
We need to have that context and to be bringing both
the built and the natural world together.
(Steve Anderson)And I agree.
I think when when when we think about it, it's not any one
platform, any one piece of softwarewe have to kind of know all of those different pieces
and how those different toolscan be used to bring the comprehensive picture together.
(16:04):
So, you know, ESRI's GIS technologyfor providing the locational context,
you know, BIM technology that could be usedfor doing the buildings in the interiors of the buildings,
civil 3D technology that helps us understand the infrastructure
and how those pieces come together and then model based design
so you can actually look into the future and actually go, OK,this is what we're proposing to do.
(16:26):
How does that actually fit in as a piece of that puzzlethat comes together?
So that's what we have to do is actually understandall the different types of technologies
and puzzle pieces and help help clients, customersactually bring them all together, tell the whole story.
(Dave Mulholland)So, Steve, with that story, what are the benefits
of using a digital twin to plan and design.
(16:48):
(Steve Anderson)So to me, I think you're really able to take that comprehensive
look at the whole picture of what is going to be affectedwhen you do this in a design project.
So you might be proposing, you know, a new roadway or changing
zoning in a community,and you want to understand what that impact is.
And it isn't just that parcel of land that you're affecting,but it's that whole ecosystem
(17:12):
that's getting affected across the whole communityby making this change does it change water and sewer needs?
Does it change educational needs?
Does it change power needs?
You know, recycling needs, things like that.
So it actually lets you take a much broaderlook at what the effect of a project is going to be.
(Dave Mulholland)Kathleen, it's been great
speaking with you today about digital twinsand connected data environments.
(17:35):
Our conversation with ESRI is not over.
We'll be talking moreabout how digital twin technologies are elevating
sustainability and equity in our communities across the US
in a future Viewpoints episode with Steve and Kathleen.
Stay tuned and I hope you'll join us.
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