August 20, 2024 • 16 mins
Discover the mesmerizing world of Japanese spirits with our special guest, Christopher Pellegrini, a leading authority who has spent over two decades immersing himself in Tokyo's vibrant spirit culture. Journey with us as Christopher shares his captivating story of stumbling upon Shochu and Awamori, Japan's indigenous spirits, and how he became enchanted by their unique qualities. You'll gain a profound understanding of the single pot distillation process and the incredible range of flavors derived from ingredients like sweet potatoes and barley. Christopher also sheds light on why these spirits are rarely exported compared to other well-known beverages, offering invaluable tips for American enthusiasts eager to explore Shochu right here at home.
In this episode, we tackle the cultural hurdles of introducing Japanese spirits to the American market. Christopher discusses the critical role of adaptability and how local experts, especially bartenders, can act as cultural ambassadors, bridging the gap between Eastern and Western drinking traditions. He highlights the innovative strategies employed by Honkaku Spirits and Takamine Whiskey to navigate and overcome these market challenges. Learn where you can find and purchase these unique spirits and get inspired by Christopher's insights on creatively promoting Shochu and Awamori. This episode promises a rich blend of cultural exploration and the nuanced artistry of Japanese spirits.
Connect with Christopher:
Website: https://honkakuspirits.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pellegrinichristopher/
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ChrisPellegrini
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/christopherpellegrini/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherpellegrini/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie Guzman (00:00):
Welcome to the Virtual Antics Podcast, where we
help entrepreneurs streamlinetheir business to six figures
and beyond.
These short, sweet andinfo-packed episodes will
inspire, educate and leave youfeeling motivated to take one
more step forward in yourbusiness.
So put down your never-endingto-do list, because in this
podcast, we are interviewing thebest of the best in the
entrepreneurial world as theyspill their secrets to success.
(00:23):
This podcast is sponsored byNadora, the all-in-one software
for entrepreneurs to grow theirbusiness, with unlimited landing
pages, automations, emails andtext campaigns, and so much more
.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Now let's get into it.
Hey y'all, welcome to VirtualAntics, the podcast where we
dive into the fascinating worldof business automation, virtual
(00:44):
assistants and entrepreneurialjourneys.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Today we have a very specialguest, christopher Pellegrini.
He is a snachu and a warmingexpert, author and podcast host
who launched Honkaku Spirits tobring Japanese spirits to
American customers.
Join us as we explore hisjourney and insights into
(01:06):
Japanese spirits.
Welcome, hey, Christopher.
How are you doing today?
Christopher Pellegrini (01:10):
Good, good morning.
It's actually nighttime overhere.
I'm in Tokyo, japan, right now.
Natalie Guzman (01:14):
Oh, I was wondering that when I asked how
your weekend was.
I know sometimes days are alloff with being in different
countries.
Christopher Pellegrini (01:21):
Oh, it's actually morning here too, now
I lied.
Natalie Guzman (01:26):
It's 123am on.
Oh well, look at that Right,right at the cuffs of morning.
I love it.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou, and how'd you end up in?
You said it was Tokyo.
Christopher Pellegrini (01:34):
That's right.
Natalie Guzman (01:35):
How'd you get there?
Christopher Pellegrini (01:36):
I followed a girl.
It was many, many, many moons,but I was working in Korea.
Boy meets girl.
Girl has a deep appreciationand fascination for Japan, and
so boy followed her there, andwe've been here for 22 years now
.
Natalie Guzman (01:53):
Oh, that is amazing.
I love that.
I love when we meet up withother people that kind of lead
us to our passions and whatwe're doing.
So how'd you get into Japanesespirit?
Christopher Pellegrini (02:02):
Well, I've been in the alcohol
beverage alcohol world since Iwas a teenager, believe it or
not.
I was a closet home breweruntil I wasn't anymore because
my parents found out, nearlykilled me.
And then I became an apprenticebrewer at a local microbrewery
in Vermont, where I grew up and,just as crazy life dictates, I
(02:27):
soon became the youngestcommercial brewer in the United
States.
When our number one brewer isback and our number two brewer
left the state to join thecircus, I'm not making that up.
And then I became a 17-year-oldbrewer who was too young to
legally drink what he was making, but I was making beer as my
job, and so fast forward.
I end up in Japan.
You know how I got here and Iran headlong into a bunch of
(02:52):
drinks that most people havenever really heard of even to
this day Shochu S-H-O-C-H-U andits slightly older cousin,
awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, and theseare Japan's indigenous spirits.
Awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, andthese are Japan's indigenous
spirits.
They very quickly struck me asthe craft beer of spirit and I
was head over heels for them,and I fell down a very, very
(03:15):
winding rabbit hole that I'mstill tumbling down, and today I
am an ambassador for thespirits classes.
I've written a book about them.
I have two businesses relatedto them that I manage
simultaneously.
They're both in different timezones.
It's a lot of fun, and now thisis 100%.
(03:36):
What I do day in and day out ispromote these drinks.
Natalie Guzman (03:39):
That's awesome.
What would you say is thebiggest difference between the
Japanese spirits and the oneshere in America?
Awesome.
Christopher Pellegrini (03:45):
What would you say is like the
biggest difference between theJapanese spirits and the ones
here in America?
Well, these traditional spiritsanyway, because of course,
japan does have its own whiskeystyle, which would be much more
similar to what folks in theStates are used to.
But these traditional spiritsare nothing like anything we've
seen before.
They are single pot distilled,so they taste like what they're
made from.
They're very rarely cask aged.
(04:05):
They're almost always aged ineither clay pots or inert tanks
like enamel line tanks, and soit's really hard to explain what
they taste like.
The most popular style in Japanis sweet potato shochu, and it
tastes like sweet potatoes, butthere's five dozen varietals of
sweet potatoes used to make it,so it tastes like the rainbow.
(04:25):
Every one tastes different, andthe second most popular by
sales is barley shochu, butthere's all different ways to
make it, so it's this incrediblydiverse, massive part of
Japanese gustatory culture thatis hiding in plain sight.
There's actually more shochuand awamori consumed every year
in Japan than sake, whicheverybody's heard of.
(04:47):
But nobody's heard of shochubecause and this is going to
blow some minds right here thereis, at least as recently as
2022, there was a little bitmore shochu made in Japan than
tequila in Mexico.
This is a massive industry andwhile 68% of 2022 production
tequila agave spirits leftMexico, much of it going to the
(05:10):
States, less than one-tenth of1% of these indigenous spirits
ever left Japan in the same year.
So this is just Japan's bestkept secret and I can explain it
to you all day long, but youreally just have to.
Natalie Guzman (05:22):
Oh, 100%.
So where could someone like inAmerica try this?
Christopher Pellegrini (05:25):
Major cities it's getting a lot.
You go into good cocktail bars,you'll almost always find at
least one drink that has shochuas part of the build, and let's
not confuse this with anotherspirit that sounds very similar
Soju S-O-J-U from Korea.
They should never be conflated.
They are not the same thing.
They shouldn't even be in thesame sentence or paragraph.
(05:48):
They're so different.
They both are made in verydifferent ways, serve very
different purposes, and it's theJapanese shochu that is more
frequently ending up incocktails and usually good
cocktail programs around thecountry.
So if you're in a big city, ifyou're in Chicago, if you're in
New York or Miami, or if you'rein San Francisco, la, houston,
(06:12):
you've got a good shot.
Atlanta, just go to a goodcocktail bar and ask about it
and they probably have it.
Then, if you're going to, ifyou go online, it's a lot easier
to find.
So if you want bottles shippedto you, that's absolutely an
option.
It's a big world, though.
There are 53 approvedingredients used to make this
drink.
There's so much diversity.
Part of the challenge ofgetting into it is figuring out
(06:34):
what your style is.
Are you a rice shochu drinker,or are you a sweet potato shochu
drinker or a chestnut shochudrinker.
You got to figure that outfirst, then you got to figure
out how you want to drink.
Natalie Guzman (06:45):
I love that.
Yeah, if you don't like it thefirst time you try it, just try
a different variation of it.
I love it.
You know I've been.
My husband is Puerto Rican.
I like to say I'm 150% whiteand so I've been trying to cook
Hispanic foods and so I made,like my own, sofrito, which is
like a herb of mixes, and then Imade, you know, like fried
(07:06):
chicken, but Puerto Rican style,and it's just so different.
You know, like they infuse thechicken in a pot with all the
seasonings and everything andthen they'll fry it or then
they'll cook it.
However, they're going to cookit and it's just so cool to see
the different cooking processes,Because in America we don't
like singe our meat and then putit onto a grill or then fry it
(07:26):
or whatnot.
We'll marinate it, but that'scompletely different, and so I
love seeing the differences andprocesses of creating this.
So what are the different?
Is it the liquor?
Is it brewed?
Differently, it is actually.
Christopher Pellegrini (07:41):
Yep, it's very, very different and,
as somebody who used to makebeer, when I first was able to
wedge my way into a distilleryover here, my mind was blown.
I mean, I worked making, youknow, cooking the grains that
made the mash, then they wentinto the lauder ton and they
went into the lauter tun, thenthey went into the kettle.
There's a very importantpronounced hot side to brewing
(08:02):
beer and, of course, makingwhiskey, because whiskey is
essentially distilled beer InJapan with these indigenous
spirits.
They don't use malted grains,it's not allowed.
They use an indigenous and thisis incredibly mold M-O-L-D that
is called koji, k-o-j-i, andkoji is the magic behind most
(08:24):
fermentation in Japan.
Now you think of soy sauce andmiso and sake and mirin and all
of these really savory aspectsof Japanese food culture.
Those are all made with thismold koji, and all shochu and
awamori must also be made withthis mold koji, and all shochu
and awamori must also be madewith this mold koji.
Koji is amazing because it'svery efficient.
(08:44):
It breaks starches into sugarsvery, very cleanly and very, as
I said, I'm going to use theword efficient again and also
adds the U word umami, so youget this extra savory punch to
everything that it's involved in.
There's no hot side to theprocess of making these drinks.
I mean, you do use steam tosteam the grains and some of the
(09:05):
starch sources, but there's noboil, there's no water time,
there's none of this stuff.
So when I first walked into adistillery and I was like, how
do you the starch conversiondoes that?
(09:26):
That doesn't happen.
And and of course this was backin 2003, when I spoke that much
Japanese now, maybe not eventhat much, and it was I couldn't
simply explain or understandthe explanations I was being
given about.
You know, I was saying I'mconfused, I don't see how this
works.
It is so entirely different asto be.
Well, it's just the beauty ofthe world as it is.
Everybody's got their own wayof doing things.
Natalie Guzman (09:41):
I know it's so cool and I absolutely love that,
but I noticed that a lot ofpeople they like to stay in
their comfort zone, right, theydon't like to really necessarily
learn new things or new ways.
So you, one of the things thatyou're trying to do is introduce
Japanese.
Christopher Pellegrini (09:58):
So what do you think has been your
biggest hurdle with that?
The biggest hurdle, in thebeginning anyway, was my
stubborn desire to stay true tothe traditions of how these
drinks are enjoyed in Japan, andthat didn't compute in a lot of
places.
If you go to really maturemarkets where there's just a lot
of innovation, a lot ofturnover, everybody's trying to
do the new thing, like New York,then you can find an audience
(10:20):
for the traditional serve, butthen you go to markets that are
a few years behind.
It takes a while for thatinnovation to sort of circulate
their way and for them toiterate on that and do their own
thing.
When you get there, it's astillborn conversation, honestly
.
You don't get anywhere with it.
(10:40):
They're kind of like, well, whywould you do that?
So we, over a period of years,had to figure out.
We knew this was going to bethe case.
You have to meet people wherethey are, and so it was a lot
more focus not on the offpremise, which is the trade term
for liquor stores, and more ofthe on premise, where the
(11:01):
gatekeepers are, and thegatekeepers are bartenders, and
bartenders are the ones whodecide what to use and what to
feature and how to how tofeature those, those drinks,
those, um, the things that theyput in their cocktails and how
they represent them on the menu.
And if you don't go throughthem, you have nothing.
So that was one of the bigchallenges early on was getting
(11:23):
over me, getting over myself asa category expert, feeling like
I had to be very, very faithfulto the traditions.
But I, over time, realized itdoesn't work that way.
Natalie Guzman (11:34):
Yeah, it's really hard for it to get people
to change because a lot ofpeople are scared of change, and
so that's what I've noticedwith a lot of businesses like
yours that people they alwayscome to this hurdle because
they're trying to convincesomeone.
This is really cool, like youshould try it, and everyone's
like that's different, you knowand I feel like especially
America.
I feel like we're very big on,like we are great with
(11:56):
creativity, but I feel likechanging our ways of how we've
done things, how our parentshave done things.
It's why so many traditions arestill here today.
Christopher Pellegrini (12:03):
No kidding, yeah, truth, this is a
little shochu kettle fromKagoshima Prefecture.
In one way.
Traditionally they would drinksweet potato shochus.
They, kagoshima Prefecture.
In one way.
Traditionally they would drinksweet potato shochu.
They'd put it in here, put thisover a flame, heat it up and
then pour it into little cupscommunally, which is adorable
(12:23):
and fun and great conversation.
But you try and bring thataspect of culture to somewhere
that's not ready for it andthey'll let you know real quick.
They'll be like yeah, I don'tthink that's going to work here.
Yeah, well, all right, you'reprobably.
You're not incorrect.
I think it will someday incertain places, but it's not
going to work straight out ofthe box.
Natalie Guzman (12:40):
Yeah, I feel like places that are more so.
If it was like more themed tothe traditional, you know, like
Japanese culture, I feel likethat would totally fit Like
cause you're trying to immerseyourself into the culture.
But then, but if you're goingto like a bar or some you know
someplace to get a drink andit's in America and you know our
seating is different, our vibesare different, like everything
(13:00):
is different, and then you bringsomething from a different
country.
I can see it not fitting, but,like you said, you go through
the bartenders and thebartenders are kind of educators
.
I know that's how I learned alot of the drinks that I like
are from bartenders, because I'dbe like I want something like
this, but not too sweet, andthen they would create this
amazing thing.
So I love that you guys wentthrough bartenders because
(13:21):
they're the educators, and Ithink that's one of the cool
things about businesses is, likewhen you're starting a business
or you're even growing yourbusiness is to look for the
people that are already in themarket and utilize them.
Because that was really smart.
Like you were like bartenders,everyone giving out these drinks
.
It's if we don't get throughthem, it's not going anywhere,
and so that was really, reallysmart.
(13:41):
I absolutely love that.
Christopher Pellegrini (13:43):
Yeah, I mean I can't take any credit for
that.
That was just sort of naturallythe way it was going to happen.
So I guess the only thing I cantake credit for is me not being
too stubborn.
Natalie Guzman (13:51):
Yeah or not letting it stop you.
You got a hurdle and you didn'tjust say, oh well, I give up,
I'm just going to focus.
You know, like I'm in Japan,I'm just going to focus on Japan
.
You know, you found a way foryour hurdle, so I give you
credit there, chris.
Christopher Pellegrini (14:05):
Thank you.
Natalie Guzman (14:06):
Awesome.
Well, where can we find moreabout you and your business?
Christopher Pellegrini (14:10):
So the business is online at Honkaku
Spirits H-O-N-K-A-K-U.
Honkaku means authentic,genuine in Japanese,
HonkakuSpiritscom, and you canactually order some of our
products through the web shopthere, depending on which state
you're in.
You know how America is aboutshipping things across state
lines very territorial, andeverybody wants their tax
(14:31):
revenue and nobody seems torealize that, hey, if they're
buying from us, they might thenand we buy from them.
That's still the same, isn't itStill the tax revenue?
Natalie Guzman (14:38):
is coming in.
I'm formerly from Taxachusetts,as I like to call it, so we're
beginning to get fireworks there.
Christopher Pellegrini (14:43):
That's a tough spirits market.
Nobody wants to do businessthere.
I hope you're listening,taxachusetts.
It's nobody wants to dobusiness there because of how
onerous your rules are.
Nobody cares, I'm sure.
So anybody with any powerprobably does not care, because
they're getting paid.
So that's a good portal ifyou're in one of those states
(15:05):
that can receive spiritship.
And then we have a new websitecalled Takamine Whiskey
A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just likethe guitar brand.
It's not a guitar brand, it's awhiskey brand Takamine Whiskey
A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just likethe guitar brand.
It's not a guitar brand, it's awhiskey brand TakamineWhiskey,
with an E dot com.
And that will lead you toplaces where you can buy our
flagship whiskey as well, alsomade with koji.
So it's a little different froman American style whiskey.
(15:26):
There's no malt harmed in theproduction of Takamine whiskey.
It's a cordified grain and it'sbeautiful.
It has the best story andspirits maybe second.
But those are a couple ofplaces to find out more about
the company.
If you want to track me down andharass me, then you would go to
Christopher Pellegrini onInstagram.
I also use a little knownnetwork these days called
(15:48):
Spoutable S-P-O-U-T-I-B-L-E, ifyou're looking for something
that doesn't have any harassmenton it.
So you wouldn't be able toharass me on that one.
You would actually have to becivil, and I guess that's it.
I'm on Facebook too, but notall the time.
I do have a personal websitecalled christopherpellegrinicom
where I publish a blog If youaren't into like paper books,
(16:13):
like this one that I publishedthe Shochu Handbook that you can
get on Amazon, just read myblog, where I go through the
nitty gritty of the basic ofShochu and Awamori.
How are they unique, how arethey different from other things
that people know?
How are they made?
So I guess that's me in adigital nutshell.
Natalie Guzman (16:30):
Awesome.
I'll make sure I put all thosein the show as well, but thank
you so much for coming on theshow.
It's been a pleasure and I lovelearning new things, especially
about a different culture thanmine, so that was awesome.
Thank you so much for educatingus.
Christopher Pellegrini (16:43):
Thank you, Natalie.
Natalie Guzman (16:43):
All right, and we'll talk to you guys next time
on the Virtual Antics Podcast.
Welcome to the Virtual Antics Podcast, where we
help entrepreneurs streamlinetheir business to six figures
and beyond.
These short, sweet andinfo-packed episodes will
inspire, educate and leave youfeeling motivated to take one
more step forward in yourbusiness.
So put down your never-endingto-do list, because in this
podcast, we are interviewing thebest of the best in the
entrepreneurial world as theyspill their secrets to success.
(00:23):
This podcast is sponsored byNadora, the all-in-one software
for entrepreneurs to grow theirbusiness, with unlimited landing
pages, automations, emails andtext campaigns, and so much more
.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Now let's get into it.
Hey y'all, welcome to VirtualAntics, the podcast where we
dive into the fascinating worldof business automation, virtual
(00:44):
assistants and entrepreneurialjourneys.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Today we have a very specialguest, christopher Pellegrini.
He is a snachu and a warmingexpert, author and podcast host
who launched Honkaku Spirits tobring Japanese spirits to
American customers.
Join us as we explore hisjourney and insights into
(01:06):
Japanese spirits.
Welcome, hey, Christopher.
How are you doing today?
Christopher Pellegrini (01:10):
Good, good morning.
It's actually nighttime overhere.
I'm in Tokyo, japan, right now.
Natalie Guzman (01:14):
Oh, I was wondering that when I asked how
your weekend was.
I know sometimes days are alloff with being in different
countries.
Christopher Pellegrini (01:21):
Oh, it's actually morning here too, now
I lied.
Natalie Guzman (01:26):
It's 123am on.
Oh well, look at that Right,right at the cuffs of morning.
I love it.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou, and how'd you end up in?
You said it was Tokyo.
Christopher Pellegrini (01:34):
That's right.
Natalie Guzman (01:35):
How'd you get there?
Christopher Pellegrini (01:36):
I followed a girl.
It was many, many, many moons,but I was working in Korea.
Boy meets girl.
Girl has a deep appreciationand fascination for Japan, and
so boy followed her there, andwe've been here for 22 years now
.
Natalie Guzman (01:53):
Oh, that is amazing.
I love that.
I love when we meet up withother people that kind of lead
us to our passions and whatwe're doing.
So how'd you get into Japanesespirit?
Christopher Pellegrini (02:02):
Well, I've been in the alcohol
beverage alcohol world since Iwas a teenager, believe it or
not.
I was a closet home breweruntil I wasn't anymore because
my parents found out, nearlykilled me.
And then I became an apprenticebrewer at a local microbrewery
in Vermont, where I grew up and,just as crazy life dictates, I
(02:27):
soon became the youngestcommercial brewer in the United
States.
When our number one brewer isback and our number two brewer
left the state to join thecircus, I'm not making that up.
And then I became a 17-year-oldbrewer who was too young to
legally drink what he was making, but I was making beer as my
job, and so fast forward.
I end up in Japan.
You know how I got here and Iran headlong into a bunch of
(02:52):
drinks that most people havenever really heard of even to
this day Shochu S-H-O-C-H-U andits slightly older cousin,
awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, and theseare Japan's indigenous spirits.
Awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, andthese are Japan's indigenous
spirits.
They very quickly struck me asthe craft beer of spirit and I
was head over heels for them,and I fell down a very, very
(03:15):
winding rabbit hole that I'mstill tumbling down, and today I
am an ambassador for thespirits classes.
I've written a book about them.
I have two businesses relatedto them that I manage
simultaneously.
They're both in different timezones.
It's a lot of fun, and now thisis 100%.
(03:36):
What I do day in and day out ispromote these drinks.
Natalie Guzman (03:39):
That's awesome.
What would you say is thebiggest difference between the
Japanese spirits and the oneshere in America?
Awesome.
Christopher Pellegrini (03:45):
What would you say is like the
biggest difference between theJapanese spirits and the ones
here in America?
Well, these traditional spiritsanyway, because of course,
japan does have its own whiskeystyle, which would be much more
similar to what folks in theStates are used to.
But these traditional spiritsare nothing like anything we've
seen before.
They are single pot distilled,so they taste like what they're
made from.
They're very rarely cask aged.
(04:05):
They're almost always aged ineither clay pots or inert tanks
like enamel line tanks, and soit's really hard to explain what
they taste like.
The most popular style in Japanis sweet potato shochu, and it
tastes like sweet potatoes, butthere's five dozen varietals of
sweet potatoes used to make it,so it tastes like the rainbow.
(04:25):
Every one tastes different, andthe second most popular by
sales is barley shochu, butthere's all different ways to
make it, so it's this incrediblydiverse, massive part of
Japanese gustatory culture thatis hiding in plain sight.
There's actually more shochuand awamori consumed every year
in Japan than sake, whicheverybody's heard of.
(04:47):
But nobody's heard of shochubecause and this is going to
blow some minds right here thereis, at least as recently as
2022, there was a little bitmore shochu made in Japan than
tequila in Mexico.
This is a massive industry andwhile 68% of 2022 production
tequila agave spirits leftMexico, much of it going to the
(05:10):
States, less than one-tenth of1% of these indigenous spirits
ever left Japan in the same year.
So this is just Japan's bestkept secret and I can explain it
to you all day long, but youreally just have to.
Natalie Guzman (05:22):
Oh, 100%.
So where could someone like inAmerica try this?
Christopher Pellegrini (05:25):
Major cities it's getting a lot.
You go into good cocktail bars,you'll almost always find at
least one drink that has shochuas part of the build, and let's
not confuse this with anotherspirit that sounds very similar
Soju S-O-J-U from Korea.
They should never be conflated.
They are not the same thing.
They shouldn't even be in thesame sentence or paragraph.
(05:48):
They're so different.
They both are made in verydifferent ways, serve very
different purposes, and it's theJapanese shochu that is more
frequently ending up incocktails and usually good
cocktail programs around thecountry.
So if you're in a big city, ifyou're in Chicago, if you're in
New York or Miami, or if you'rein San Francisco, la, houston,
(06:12):
you've got a good shot.
Atlanta, just go to a goodcocktail bar and ask about it
and they probably have it.
Then, if you're going to, ifyou go online, it's a lot easier
to find.
So if you want bottles shippedto you, that's absolutely an
option.
It's a big world, though.
There are 53 approvedingredients used to make this
drink.
There's so much diversity.
Part of the challenge ofgetting into it is figuring out
(06:34):
what your style is.
Are you a rice shochu drinker,or are you a sweet potato shochu
drinker or a chestnut shochudrinker.
You got to figure that outfirst, then you got to figure
out how you want to drink.
Natalie Guzman (06:45):
I love that.
Yeah, if you don't like it thefirst time you try it, just try
a different variation of it.
I love it.
You know I've been.
My husband is Puerto Rican.
I like to say I'm 150% whiteand so I've been trying to cook
Hispanic foods and so I made,like my own, sofrito, which is
like a herb of mixes, and then Imade, you know, like fried
(07:06):
chicken, but Puerto Rican style,and it's just so different.
You know, like they infuse thechicken in a pot with all the
seasonings and everything andthen they'll fry it or then
they'll cook it.
However, they're going to cookit and it's just so cool to see
the different cooking processes,Because in America we don't
like singe our meat and then putit onto a grill or then fry it
(07:26):
or whatnot.
We'll marinate it, but that'scompletely different, and so I
love seeing the differences andprocesses of creating this.
So what are the different?
Is it the liquor?
Is it brewed?
Differently, it is actually.
Christopher Pellegrini (07:41):
Yep, it's very, very different and,
as somebody who used to makebeer, when I first was able to
wedge my way into a distilleryover here, my mind was blown.
I mean, I worked making, youknow, cooking the grains that
made the mash, then they wentinto the lauder ton and they
went into the lauter tun, thenthey went into the kettle.
There's a very importantpronounced hot side to brewing
(08:02):
beer and, of course, makingwhiskey, because whiskey is
essentially distilled beer InJapan with these indigenous
spirits.
They don't use malted grains,it's not allowed.
They use an indigenous and thisis incredibly mold M-O-L-D that
is called koji, k-o-j-i, andkoji is the magic behind most
(08:24):
fermentation in Japan.
Now you think of soy sauce andmiso and sake and mirin and all
of these really savory aspectsof Japanese food culture.
Those are all made with thismold koji, and all shochu and
awamori must also be made withthis mold koji, and all shochu
and awamori must also be madewith this mold koji.
Koji is amazing because it'svery efficient.
(08:44):
It breaks starches into sugarsvery, very cleanly and very, as
I said, I'm going to use theword efficient again and also
adds the U word umami, so youget this extra savory punch to
everything that it's involved in.
There's no hot side to theprocess of making these drinks.
I mean, you do use steam tosteam the grains and some of the
(09:05):
starch sources, but there's noboil, there's no water time,
there's none of this stuff.
So when I first walked into adistillery and I was like, how
do you the starch conversiondoes that?
(09:26):
That doesn't happen.
And and of course this was backin 2003, when I spoke that much
Japanese now, maybe not eventhat much, and it was I couldn't
simply explain or understandthe explanations I was being
given about.
You know, I was saying I'mconfused, I don't see how this
works.
It is so entirely different asto be.
Well, it's just the beauty ofthe world as it is.
Everybody's got their own wayof doing things.
Natalie Guzman (09:41):
I know it's so cool and I absolutely love that,
but I noticed that a lot ofpeople they like to stay in
their comfort zone, right, theydon't like to really necessarily
learn new things or new ways.
So you, one of the things thatyou're trying to do is introduce
Japanese.
Christopher Pellegrini (09:58):
So what do you think has been your
biggest hurdle with that?
The biggest hurdle, in thebeginning anyway, was my
stubborn desire to stay true tothe traditions of how these
drinks are enjoyed in Japan, andthat didn't compute in a lot of
places.
If you go to really maturemarkets where there's just a lot
of innovation, a lot ofturnover, everybody's trying to
do the new thing, like New York,then you can find an audience
(10:20):
for the traditional serve, butthen you go to markets that are
a few years behind.
It takes a while for thatinnovation to sort of circulate
their way and for them toiterate on that and do their own
thing.
When you get there, it's astillborn conversation, honestly
.
You don't get anywhere with it.
(10:40):
They're kind of like, well, whywould you do that?
So we, over a period of years,had to figure out.
We knew this was going to bethe case.
You have to meet people wherethey are, and so it was a lot
more focus not on the offpremise, which is the trade term
for liquor stores, and more ofthe on premise, where the
(11:01):
gatekeepers are, and thegatekeepers are bartenders, and
bartenders are the ones whodecide what to use and what to
feature and how to how tofeature those, those drinks,
those, um, the things that theyput in their cocktails and how
they represent them on the menu.
And if you don't go throughthem, you have nothing.
So that was one of the bigchallenges early on was getting
(11:23):
over me, getting over myself asa category expert, feeling like
I had to be very, very faithfulto the traditions.
But I, over time, realized itdoesn't work that way.
Natalie Guzman (11:34):
Yeah, it's really hard for it to get people
to change because a lot ofpeople are scared of change, and
so that's what I've noticedwith a lot of businesses like
yours that people they alwayscome to this hurdle because
they're trying to convincesomeone.
This is really cool, like youshould try it, and everyone's
like that's different, you knowand I feel like especially
America.
I feel like we're very big on,like we are great with
(11:56):
creativity, but I feel likechanging our ways of how we've
done things, how our parentshave done things.
It's why so many traditions arestill here today.
Christopher Pellegrini (12:03):
No kidding, yeah, truth, this is a
little shochu kettle fromKagoshima Prefecture.
In one way.
Traditionally they would drinksweet potato shochus.
They, kagoshima Prefecture.
In one way.
Traditionally they would drinksweet potato shochu.
They'd put it in here, put thisover a flame, heat it up and
then pour it into little cupscommunally, which is adorable
(12:23):
and fun and great conversation.
But you try and bring thataspect of culture to somewhere
that's not ready for it andthey'll let you know real quick.
They'll be like yeah, I don'tthink that's going to work here.
Yeah, well, all right, you'reprobably.
You're not incorrect.
I think it will someday incertain places, but it's not
going to work straight out ofthe box.
Natalie Guzman (12:40):
Yeah, I feel like places that are more so.
If it was like more themed tothe traditional, you know, like
Japanese culture, I feel likethat would totally fit Like
cause you're trying to immerseyourself into the culture.
But then, but if you're goingto like a bar or some you know
someplace to get a drink andit's in America and you know our
seating is different, our vibesare different, like everything
(13:00):
is different, and then you bringsomething from a different
country.
I can see it not fitting, but,like you said, you go through
the bartenders and thebartenders are kind of educators
.
I know that's how I learned alot of the drinks that I like
are from bartenders, because I'dbe like I want something like
this, but not too sweet, andthen they would create this
amazing thing.
So I love that you guys wentthrough bartenders because
(13:21):
they're the educators, and Ithink that's one of the cool
things about businesses is, likewhen you're starting a business
or you're even growing yourbusiness is to look for the
people that are already in themarket and utilize them.
Because that was really smart.
Like you were like bartenders,everyone giving out these drinks
.
It's if we don't get throughthem, it's not going anywhere,
and so that was really, reallysmart.
(13:41):
I absolutely love that.
Christopher Pellegrini (13:43):
Yeah, I mean I can't take any credit for
that.
That was just sort of naturallythe way it was going to happen.
So I guess the only thing I cantake credit for is me not being
too stubborn.
Natalie Guzman (13:51):
Yeah or not letting it stop you.
You got a hurdle and you didn'tjust say, oh well, I give up,
I'm just going to focus.
You know, like I'm in Japan,I'm just going to focus on Japan
.
You know, you found a way foryour hurdle, so I give you
credit there, chris.
Christopher Pellegrini (14:05):
Thank you.
Natalie Guzman (14:06):
Awesome.
Well, where can we find moreabout you and your business?
Christopher Pellegrini (14:10):
So the business is online at Honkaku
Spirits H-O-N-K-A-K-U.
Honkaku means authentic,genuine in Japanese,
HonkakuSpiritscom, and you canactually order some of our
products through the web shopthere, depending on which state
you're in.
You know how America is aboutshipping things across state
lines very territorial, andeverybody wants their tax
(14:31):
revenue and nobody seems torealize that, hey, if they're
buying from us, they might thenand we buy from them.
That's still the same, isn't itStill the tax revenue?
Natalie Guzman (14:38):
is coming in.
I'm formerly from Taxachusetts,as I like to call it, so we're
beginning to get fireworks there.
Christopher Pellegrini (14:43):
That's a tough spirits market.
Nobody wants to do businessthere.
I hope you're listening,taxachusetts.
It's nobody wants to dobusiness there because of how
onerous your rules are.
Nobody cares, I'm sure.
So anybody with any powerprobably does not care, because
they're getting paid.
So that's a good portal ifyou're in one of those states
(15:05):
that can receive spiritship.
And then we have a new websitecalled Takamine Whiskey
A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just likethe guitar brand.
It's not a guitar brand, it's awhiskey brand Takamine Whiskey
A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just likethe guitar brand.
It's not a guitar brand, it's awhiskey brand TakamineWhiskey,
with an E dot com.
And that will lead you toplaces where you can buy our
flagship whiskey as well, alsomade with koji.
So it's a little different froman American style whiskey.
(15:26):
There's no malt harmed in theproduction of Takamine whiskey.
It's a cordified grain and it'sbeautiful.
It has the best story andspirits maybe second.
But those are a couple ofplaces to find out more about
the company.
If you want to track me down andharass me, then you would go to
Christopher Pellegrini onInstagram.
I also use a little knownnetwork these days called
(15:48):
Spoutable S-P-O-U-T-I-B-L-E, ifyou're looking for something
that doesn't have any harassmenton it.
So you wouldn't be able toharass me on that one.
You would actually have to becivil, and I guess that's it.
I'm on Facebook too, but notall the time.
I do have a personal websitecalled christopherpellegrinicom
where I publish a blog If youaren't into like paper books,
(16:13):
like this one that I publishedthe Shochu Handbook that you can
get on Amazon, just read myblog, where I go through the
nitty gritty of the basic ofShochu and Awamori.
How are they unique, how arethey different from other things
that people know?
How are they made?
So I guess that's me in adigital nutshell.
Natalie Guzman (16:30):
Awesome.
I'll make sure I put all thosein the show as well, but thank
you so much for coming on theshow.
It's been a pleasure and I lovelearning new things, especially
about a different culture thanmine, so that was awesome.
Thank you so much for educatingus.
Christopher Pellegrini (16:43):
Thank you, Natalie.
Natalie Guzman (16:43):
All right, and we'll talk to you guys next time
on the Virtual Antics Podcast.
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