June 27, 2024 • 15 mins
Transform your client conversations and close deals like a true maestro with insights from the master of dialogue himself, Jake Stahl. In a riveting exchange, Jake unfolds the intricacies of his Adaptive Conversational Blueprint, spotlighting the power of active listening and genuine engagement. Venture with us as we examine the move beyond the mundane 'how are you?' to a realm of strategic, researched discussions that break the ice and lay the foundation for enduring relationships. Entrepreneurs and sales aficionados, prepare for a masterclass on refining your sales approach and fostering connections that transcend the typical transaction.
In this episode, we dissect the anatomy of an effective sales strategy, emphasizing the delicate balance of understanding before pitching. Discover how to employ statements that unearth a client's core needs and mirror those needs back to them, establishing a rapport that elevates trust to new heights. We also shine a light on the common blunders that can derail a sale, advocating for a conversational cadence that sidesteps the pitfalls of premature product promotion. Join us as we navigate the art of conversation with finesse, equipping you with the tools to not only secure a sale but to transform prospects into long-term partners.
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Website: www.jakestahlconsulting.com
LinkedIn: jakestahl
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Virtual Antics podcast, where we
help entrepreneurs streamlinetheir business to six figures
and beyond.
These short, sweet and infopacked episodes will inspire,
educate and leave you feelingmotivated to take one more step
forward in your business.
So put down your never-endingto-do list, because in this
podcast, we are interviewing thebest of the best in the
entrepreneurial world as theyspill their secrets to success.
(00:23):
This podcast is sponsored byNandora, the all-in-one software
for entrepreneurs to grow theirbusiness, with unlimited
landing pages, automations,emails and text campaigns, and
so much more.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Now let's get into it.
Hey y'all, welcome back to theVirtual Antics podcast.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman,so excited to have Jake Stahl
(00:44):
with us today.
He is a conversational maestroand a fractional chief learning
officer who spent over 30 yearsacross six countries crafting a
transformative approach calledthe Adaptive Conversational
Blueprint.
Welcome, jake.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Good morning Natalie.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm so excited you're here, so I love this idea and I
love that you call yourself aconversational maestro, so can
you tell us some more about whatyou do and how you got started
with this?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, sure.
So I was raised in the class ofpeople, or the age of people,
where kids were to be seen andnot heard.
So I was fortunate enough tosit in on a lot of meetings with
my dad, who was a prominentbusinessman, and just listen.
As you know, when we're youngwe don't appreciate it near as
much as we do when we're older.
(01:32):
So I think there were a lot oflessons that sunk in.
So I went into a career in sales.
I sold for four differentcompanies and at one point
somebody asked me if I'd beinterested in training someone
and that kind of was like the.
That was the moment.
That was the moment where Ithought, wow, this is it, this
is what I'm supposed to do.
So it started a long careerwhere I was able to travel and
(01:59):
learn from people.
I think that was the biggestthing, natalie was I just I
listened to people and learnedfrom them to figure out what
needed to be done with everybodyat a baseline.
Yeah, you know everybody'sdifferent, but there's a
baseline, I think, whereeverybody needs to have certain
conversational dynamics 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We actually had a recent episode with a Darlene
per day and she was talkingabout sales and how a lot most
of it is actually listening tothe person you're talking to.
I think entrepreneurs getwrapped around so much about you
know, like about the sales andabout making money, and they
don't really take the time toactually listen to the person
(02:41):
they're talking to, because theycould say that they're getting
on a sales call for one reason,but really they need six other
things.
Exactly right, yeah, so what doyou notice?
Like, what are some things thatyou recommend to people that
are either getting started insales or maybe they're just
trying to sell their own companyor service?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, don't start with the words how are you?
You know, natalie, we are soconditioned with certain
responses that they almostbecome non-conversation.
I'll give you a great example.
My wife and I were Christmasshopping this last season and we
walked by a gentleman in a shopand he and I locked eyes and I
just said hey.
And he said fine, thanks, howare you?
(03:20):
And that conversation nevertook place, and yet in our brain
it did so.
One of the first pieces ofadvice I would give is to start
to establish trust withsomething that's not going to
trigger certain conditioning,and a way to do that would be to
research your customer and whenyou get on with them, say you
(03:42):
know what, I couldn't wait tocall you, I'm so glad you picked
up.
And here's why it trips that itsteps over that trigger that
that other person has to justrespond in a certain way.
And when we come in with acertain sales approach, we
trigger a certain set ofresponse defensive matrices that
(04:04):
go off in the other person'shead, and we want to try and
avoid those if we can and startto build trust from word one.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, and I even notice a lot of times people get
on a discovery call with me andthey're like OK, I'm ready for
your spiel, I'm ready for yourspeech.
And I never have one.
And my discovery calls areliterally just a conversation to
figure out who you are, whatyou do and how I can help.
And they assume that I'm goingto go all of a sudden and I call
(04:32):
it hard sales where you goafter them and you're like this
is everything about my business,but it's just really, really
interesting that everyone kindof thinks that.
So do you think there's adifference between I always hear
the terms hard sales and softsales, right?
So what's the difference, andtell me a little bit more about
(04:54):
that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Sure.
So let's take a step back firstand just say that sales in
itself has its own stigma.
So when we say let's say we'restarting a business or we get to
be a salesperson, a lot ofpeople say I have a hard time
selling because I don't want tohard sell someone, and I think
the word sell almost has hardattached to it right away.
(05:16):
A hard sell is when you reallypush, despite what the customer
needs, despite what they'relooking for and despite whether
I can actually help them or not.
I jam the product down theirthroat.
And this is a product often ofwho I work for or what I need.
So if I'm desperate, if Ireally need a sale or my boss is
(05:36):
saying you better make a sale,I probably will push more
towards the hard sale.
A soft sell is when you'recoming in and you're building
trust and you're actuallylistening and there's a back and
forth between you and thecustomer and the sale isn't an
obvious part of the conversation.
And a great example, natalie,is if you and I get on a
(05:58):
conversation, we start to buildtrust and we get to the point
where you actually say you know,jake, what is it you want to
talk about?
That's when you're buildinginto a soft sale.
Or it may be multiple attemptsat the sale with none of them
really having what we would calla hard close or definite call
to action.
I personally feel, as a personthat's been training for a while
(06:21):
, I personally feel every salewould be better off as a soft
sale, but I know my opinionisn't always highly regarded by
people with certain KPIs theyhave to make.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, I know, as a business owner, I always done
soft sales and that's how I'vealways.
You know that's how my businesswas able to hit six figures in
three months was because I softsailed and I built relationships
.
Because if you're coming in andyou're not a business with a
well established brand, I feellike hard sales aren't going to
work because you don't have thattrust already established.
(06:54):
They're just learning about you, Unless it's a referral, of
course, but even a referral youwant to soft sales because
you're trying to nurture therelationships.
So soft sales and my closingrates like 97%, which is insane.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, congratulations , that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Thank you and that, of course, it took a while to
get there.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well, of course, yeah .
Well, you have to find who youare and you have to get that
voice that works.
So good for you,congratulations.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Thank you.
Yeah, and that's only because Ido soft sales too, and how I
get my leads so we talked aboutthat with Darlene.
Today was like a lot of thingsgo into your closing right and
one of those is how you'regetting your leads.
Are you getting them like juststraight from ads or are they
already working to you as awhole thing?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So what are?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
the questions we should ask in our sales call.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well, there's a couple of things we need to ask,
and the funny thing is it'srarely about whether they need
our product.
We should ask things like howoften do you do this?
How often do you need this typeof product?
What pain spot does this fillfor you?
Have you looked at otherproducts that are similar and
(08:03):
what did you find?
I don't like to say discoveryquestions.
I think they're more designedto elicit information.
And the funny thing is, natalie, we don't even need to ask
questions, we can just makestatements along the way.
An example is let's say, I'mselling health benefits.
You know, when we get on thephone, it's like so how often do
(08:26):
you do this?
I do this once a year and Ireally hate doing it.
So you're doing this once ayear?
That must be painful.
Yeah, it really is painful.
So you probably go through alot of decision makers.
You know it doesn't have to bequestions, and that's part of
what I consider an even softersell, where you're repeating
back key bits of information,getting them to give you more
(08:50):
than you may have gotten had youactually asked the question,
and, at the same time, you'rebuilding trust because they're
doing most of the talking.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's a really , really good point.
I think.
Even like when I'm hiring thepeople that are repeating what
I'm saying back to me to showthat they understand, like I pay
attention, I'm like, oh, that'sgood.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Cause.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That means attention, they're gonna remember Like
it's kind of like that memorything too, and it helps some
people's memory and I'm likeokay, so you're actually taking
the time to make sure youremember what I'm saying and
that you're caring and you'repaying attention to as I'm
talking, because you know it'sreally easy to space out during
a conversation.
I've done it during podcastcalls.
So it's really important thatwe are, you know, really focused
(09:35):
and I think repeating thestatements or the feelings, the
motions, can be really powerful.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That was awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Now, what are some mistakes that you see people in
sales make a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think one of the biggest ones is selling your
product too soon.
You know, we tend to get into aconversation and we really
really want to tell people whatwe know and that's great and
you're a salesperson and youshould have that desire.
But we have to understandreceptivity on the other side is
gonna be directly proportionalto how much time you allowed to
(10:10):
build trust first.
So here's a great example.
Natalie, if you and I just meetand I say to you, let's say
something off key maybe it's.
You know, I don't like yourbackdrop or whatever.
I love your backdrop.
I'm just using this as anexample.
You may not be as receptive tothat.
But if you and I built arelationship and let's say at
(10:34):
the end of the call, I'm likeNatalie, that backdrop is kind
of wild.
It's never considered changingthat.
You're gonna take it muchdifferently.
So how much you listen to me isgoing to be directly
proportional to how much Ilisten to you already and how
much trust we've built.
When I do my reach outs, Idon't talk about me for the
(10:54):
first two or three reach outsand the wild thing is eventually
somebody comes back and goes.
You know I've done a ton oftalking and giving you a bunch
of information.
I know nothing about you.
Well, their ability to receivemy information, that is probably
at peak, and that's when I canstart to talk about what I have
to say.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, and I've noticed that a lot of times.
I will get you know people on adiscovery call with me and they
say you know, I went with youbecause you actually asked me
what my business was.
You know, especially the worldof resistance, like that's super
popular that virtual systemwon't even ask you what your
business is, who your targetmarket is, like all things you
(11:35):
need to know to make your joblike successful, to actually
provide.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And it also shows you know you're actually trying to
get to know them.
They're not just a number,they're not just money.
To you, Exactly, yeah.
So that's crazy.
I think that people don't evenask the simple questions.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Well and I think there's a part two to that,
natalie is that when you ask thequestions, one of the things
I've espoused for years is youneed to have a cadence in your
conversation.
So cadence, in my opinion, faroutweighs the content, because
until you and I have the backand forth and I've shown you I'm
going to listen and you'veshown me you're going to listen,
(12:15):
what I have to say just isn'tas important.
You're going to establish thatback and forth, Then content
becomes important.
But the salesperson who leadswith content, you're just,
you're starting an uphill battleand it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, and I think too , you could actually be like
almost like battling againstyourself, because if you're
selling right up front, youdon't know what they actually
need.
You could be giving them thewrong service or products.
I've even had people that havecome to me where my services
were not going to be a fit, butI was able to refer them and
then I had refer affiliatepayout, so it was another stream
(12:56):
of income.
But I wouldn't have known thatthey were not right fit unless I
had a really deep andmeaningful conversation with
them about what they're reallystruggling with and what they're
absolutely, and if I just sellthem and they bought my thing.
It would have been disastrous.
That's the quickest way to getone star review.
I feel like yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I agree, and you know you referring them to somebody
is really that goes so far inestablishing trust and it
actually makes people want tocall you back again.
I think a lot of salespeopleare under the illusion that if I
steer you away from my product,I've lost you as a customer.
And they've done psychologicaltests on this and found that it
(13:37):
actually makes people want tocome back to you more than if
you had actually sold them.
So it's amazing, but it's verycounterintuitive.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, actually put them through a funnel so they
don't leave if they are not afit for my services or my
products.
I actually put them through myaffiliate program because then
they're able to then refer it tomaybe someone that would be a
good fit after establishing thattrust.
So I'm a funnel and automationsgirl, so that's definitely like
(14:07):
.
I love that stuff.
That is awesome.
Yeah and so a lot of people arescared of sales.
So what would you say tosomeone that is afraid to
actually, you know, get on acall and sell their product or
service?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Sure.
So let's talk a little bitabout the term sales, which we
addressed a little bit earlier.
I think sales is tied to theuse car guy or gal, the people
who do magazines on the phone orwho are selling extended
warranties.
But the reality is we've beenselling for a long time and my
favorite example is think aboutthe cave drawings that we've
(14:44):
discovered over the years.
Those are sales.
You're selling people on youradventure.
You're telling a story that youhope someone's going to listen
to or look at to understand yourmessage.
It goes through hieroglyphics.
There's a million differentexamples of communicating to
extend a message, to convincesomeone that you had a good time
(15:07):
or you had a great adventure orsomething should be purchased.
So when we frame sales likethat, we do it all the time.
Another version of sales is.
One of my favorite examples isa lion never has to tell you
it's a lion.
The gazelle knows, thezookeeper knows, everybody knows
you're a lion.
So, people who are afraid ofsales, my two biggest piece of
(15:28):
advice are don't think of it assales, think of it as
storytelling.
And second is delve into yourpassion.
Just talk about it and let yourpassion come out and you're
going to generate the otherperson's interest.
Sales is when you try to makethat close at the end and we
talked about the hard versussoft close.
(15:49):
But I think people tend to loseperspective in the fact that by
being passionate about a topic,you're already selling.
So when you get the fact out ofyour head that you don't need
to call it sales, all of asudden it becomes a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I love that.
That's super powerful and it'sdefinitely it's kind of like
anything in life.
Some things are really scary,maybe out of our comfort zone,
but if we keep putting the workand the effort in, eventually
it's going to become like secondmajor to us.
It's just something you have towork towards.
Not everything's going to comeeasy Absolutely Amazing.
(16:23):
Well, can you tell us moreabout where we can find you and
your services?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sure, you can find me on LinkedIn, obviously under
Jake Stahl on LinkedIn.
You can also find me at mywebsite, jakestahlconsultingcom.
I do corporate consulting.
I have a lot of individualclients that I help them through
their sales or entrepreneurialjourney.
So it's.
I also do fractional chieflearning officers, so I will
(16:48):
step in and do the head oftraining and development for a
company, get them started andthen walk away so people can
reach out to me any of thosespots.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Awesome.
Make sure I put that in theshow notes as well.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Thank you so much, Jake, for coming on the show.
We'll talk to you guys nexttime on the Virtual Index
Podcast.
Welcome to the Virtual Antics podcast, where we
help entrepreneurs streamlinetheir business to six figures
and beyond.
These short, sweet and infopacked episodes will inspire,
educate and leave you feelingmotivated to take one more step
forward in your business.
So put down your never-endingto-do list, because in this
podcast, we are interviewing thebest of the best in the
entrepreneurial world as theyspill their secrets to success.
(00:23):
This podcast is sponsored byNandora, the all-in-one software
for entrepreneurs to grow theirbusiness, with unlimited
landing pages, automations,emails and text campaigns, and
so much more.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman.
Now let's get into it.
Hey y'all, welcome back to theVirtual Antics podcast.
I'm your host, natalie Guzman,so excited to have Jake Stahl
(00:44):
with us today.
He is a conversational maestroand a fractional chief learning
officer who spent over 30 yearsacross six countries crafting a
transformative approach calledthe Adaptive Conversational
Blueprint.
Welcome, jake.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Good morning Natalie.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm so excited you're here, so I love this idea and I
love that you call yourself aconversational maestro, so can
you tell us some more about whatyou do and how you got started
with this?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, sure.
So I was raised in the class ofpeople, or the age of people,
where kids were to be seen andnot heard.
So I was fortunate enough tosit in on a lot of meetings with
my dad, who was a prominentbusinessman, and just listen.
As you know, when we're youngwe don't appreciate it near as
much as we do when we're older.
(01:32):
So I think there were a lot oflessons that sunk in.
So I went into a career in sales.
I sold for four differentcompanies and at one point
somebody asked me if I'd beinterested in training someone
and that kind of was like the.
That was the moment.
That was the moment where Ithought, wow, this is it, this
is what I'm supposed to do.
So it started a long careerwhere I was able to travel and
(01:59):
learn from people.
I think that was the biggestthing, natalie was I just I
listened to people and learnedfrom them to figure out what
needed to be done with everybodyat a baseline.
Yeah, you know everybody'sdifferent, but there's a
baseline, I think, whereeverybody needs to have certain
conversational dynamics 100%.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We actually had a recent episode with a Darlene
per day and she was talkingabout sales and how a lot most
of it is actually listening tothe person you're talking to.
I think entrepreneurs getwrapped around so much about you
know, like about the sales andabout making money, and they
don't really take the time toactually listen to the person
(02:41):
they're talking to, because theycould say that they're getting
on a sales call for one reason,but really they need six other
things.
Exactly right, yeah, so what doyou notice?
Like, what are some things thatyou recommend to people that
are either getting started insales or maybe they're just
trying to sell their own companyor service?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, don't start with the words how are you?
You know, natalie, we are soconditioned with certain
responses that they almostbecome non-conversation.
I'll give you a great example.
My wife and I were Christmasshopping this last season and we
walked by a gentleman in a shopand he and I locked eyes and I
just said hey.
And he said fine, thanks, howare you?
(03:20):
And that conversation nevertook place, and yet in our brain
it did so.
One of the first pieces ofadvice I would give is to start
to establish trust withsomething that's not going to
trigger certain conditioning,and a way to do that would be to
research your customer and whenyou get on with them, say you
(03:42):
know what, I couldn't wait tocall you, I'm so glad you picked
up.
And here's why it trips that itsteps over that trigger that
that other person has to justrespond in a certain way.
And when we come in with acertain sales approach, we
trigger a certain set ofresponse defensive matrices that
(04:04):
go off in the other person'shead, and we want to try and
avoid those if we can and startto build trust from word one.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, and I even notice a lot of times people get
on a discovery call with me andthey're like OK, I'm ready for
your spiel, I'm ready for yourspeech.
And I never have one.
And my discovery calls areliterally just a conversation to
figure out who you are, whatyou do and how I can help.
And they assume that I'm goingto go all of a sudden and I call
(04:32):
it hard sales where you goafter them and you're like this
is everything about my business,but it's just really, really
interesting that everyone kindof thinks that.
So do you think there's adifference between I always hear
the terms hard sales and softsales, right?
So what's the difference, andtell me a little bit more about
(04:54):
that.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Sure.
So let's take a step back firstand just say that sales in
itself has its own stigma.
So when we say let's say we'restarting a business or we get to
be a salesperson, a lot ofpeople say I have a hard time
selling because I don't want tohard sell someone, and I think
the word sell almost has hardattached to it right away.
(05:16):
A hard sell is when you reallypush, despite what the customer
needs, despite what they'relooking for and despite whether
I can actually help them or not.
I jam the product down theirthroat.
And this is a product often ofwho I work for or what I need.
So if I'm desperate, if Ireally need a sale or my boss is
(05:36):
saying you better make a sale,I probably will push more
towards the hard sale.
A soft sell is when you'recoming in and you're building
trust and you're actuallylistening and there's a back and
forth between you and thecustomer and the sale isn't an
obvious part of the conversation.
And a great example, natalie,is if you and I get on a
(05:58):
conversation, we start to buildtrust and we get to the point
where you actually say you know,jake, what is it you want to
talk about?
That's when you're buildinginto a soft sale.
Or it may be multiple attemptsat the sale with none of them
really having what we would calla hard close or definite call
to action.
I personally feel, as a personthat's been training for a while
(06:21):
, I personally feel every salewould be better off as a soft
sale, but I know my opinionisn't always highly regarded by
people with certain KPIs theyhave to make.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, I know, as a business owner, I always done
soft sales and that's how I'vealways.
You know that's how my businesswas able to hit six figures in
three months was because I softsailed and I built relationships
.
Because if you're coming in andyou're not a business with a
well established brand, I feellike hard sales aren't going to
work because you don't have thattrust already established.
(06:54):
They're just learning about you, Unless it's a referral, of
course, but even a referral youwant to soft sales because
you're trying to nurture therelationships.
So soft sales and my closingrates like 97%, which is insane.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, congratulations , that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Thank you and that, of course, it took a while to
get there.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Well, of course, yeah .
Well, you have to find who youare and you have to get that
voice that works.
So good for you,congratulations.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Thank you.
Yeah, and that's only because Ido soft sales too, and how I
get my leads so we talked aboutthat with Darlene.
Today was like a lot of thingsgo into your closing right and
one of those is how you'regetting your leads.
Are you getting them like juststraight from ads or are they
already working to you as awhole thing?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So what are?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
the questions we should ask in our sales call.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well, there's a couple of things we need to ask,
and the funny thing is it'srarely about whether they need
our product.
We should ask things like howoften do you do this?
How often do you need this typeof product?
What pain spot does this fillfor you?
Have you looked at otherproducts that are similar and
(08:03):
what did you find?
I don't like to say discoveryquestions.
I think they're more designedto elicit information.
And the funny thing is, natalie, we don't even need to ask
questions, we can just makestatements along the way.
An example is let's say, I'mselling health benefits.
You know, when we get on thephone, it's like so how often do
(08:26):
you do this?
I do this once a year and Ireally hate doing it.
So you're doing this once ayear?
That must be painful.
Yeah, it really is painful.
So you probably go through alot of decision makers.
You know it doesn't have to bequestions, and that's part of
what I consider an even softersell, where you're repeating
back key bits of information,getting them to give you more
(08:50):
than you may have gotten had youactually asked the question,
and, at the same time, you'rebuilding trust because they're
doing most of the talking.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's a really , really good point.
I think.
Even like when I'm hiring thepeople that are repeating what
I'm saying back to me to showthat they understand, like I pay
attention, I'm like, oh, that'sgood.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Cause.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That means attention, they're gonna remember Like
it's kind of like that memorything too, and it helps some
people's memory and I'm likeokay, so you're actually taking
the time to make sure youremember what I'm saying and
that you're caring and you'repaying attention to as I'm
talking, because you know it'sreally easy to space out during
a conversation.
I've done it during podcastcalls.
So it's really important thatwe are, you know, really focused
(09:35):
and I think repeating thestatements or the feelings, the
motions, can be really powerful.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That was awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Now, what are some mistakes that you see people in
sales make a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think one of the biggest ones is selling your
product too soon.
You know, we tend to get into aconversation and we really
really want to tell people whatwe know and that's great and
you're a salesperson and youshould have that desire.
But we have to understandreceptivity on the other side is
gonna be directly proportionalto how much time you allowed to
(10:10):
build trust first.
So here's a great example.
Natalie, if you and I just meetand I say to you, let's say
something off key maybe it's.
You know, I don't like yourbackdrop or whatever.
I love your backdrop.
I'm just using this as anexample.
You may not be as receptive tothat.
But if you and I built arelationship and let's say at
(10:34):
the end of the call, I'm likeNatalie, that backdrop is kind
of wild.
It's never considered changingthat.
You're gonna take it muchdifferently.
So how much you listen to me isgoing to be directly
proportional to how much Ilisten to you already and how
much trust we've built.
When I do my reach outs, Idon't talk about me for the
(10:54):
first two or three reach outsand the wild thing is eventually
somebody comes back and goes.
You know I've done a ton oftalking and giving you a bunch
of information.
I know nothing about you.
Well, their ability to receivemy information, that is probably
at peak, and that's when I canstart to talk about what I have
to say.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, and I've noticed that a lot of times.
I will get you know people on adiscovery call with me and they
say you know, I went with youbecause you actually asked me
what my business was.
You know, especially the worldof resistance, like that's super
popular that virtual systemwon't even ask you what your
business is, who your targetmarket is, like all things you
(11:35):
need to know to make your joblike successful, to actually
provide.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And it also shows you know you're actually trying to
get to know them.
They're not just a number,they're not just money.
To you, Exactly, yeah.
So that's crazy.
I think that people don't evenask the simple questions.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Well and I think there's a part two to that,
natalie is that when you ask thequestions, one of the things
I've espoused for years is youneed to have a cadence in your
conversation.
So cadence, in my opinion, faroutweighs the content, because
until you and I have the backand forth and I've shown you I'm
going to listen and you'veshown me you're going to listen,
(12:15):
what I have to say just isn'tas important.
You're going to establish thatback and forth, Then content
becomes important.
But the salesperson who leadswith content, you're just,
you're starting an uphill battleand it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, and I think too , you could actually be like
almost like battling againstyourself, because if you're
selling right up front, youdon't know what they actually
need.
You could be giving them thewrong service or products.
I've even had people that havecome to me where my services
were not going to be a fit, butI was able to refer them and
then I had refer affiliatepayout, so it was another stream
(12:56):
of income.
But I wouldn't have known thatthey were not right fit unless I
had a really deep andmeaningful conversation with
them about what they're reallystruggling with and what they're
absolutely, and if I just sellthem and they bought my thing.
It would have been disastrous.
That's the quickest way to getone star review.
I feel like yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I agree, and you know you referring them to somebody
is really that goes so far inestablishing trust and it
actually makes people want tocall you back again.
I think a lot of salespeopleare under the illusion that if I
steer you away from my product,I've lost you as a customer.
And they've done psychologicaltests on this and found that it
(13:37):
actually makes people want tocome back to you more than if
you had actually sold them.
So it's amazing, but it's verycounterintuitive.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, actually put them through a funnel so they
don't leave if they are not afit for my services or my
products.
I actually put them through myaffiliate program because then
they're able to then refer it tomaybe someone that would be a
good fit after establishing thattrust.
So I'm a funnel and automationsgirl, so that's definitely like
(14:07):
.
I love that stuff.
That is awesome.
Yeah and so a lot of people arescared of sales.
So what would you say tosomeone that is afraid to
actually, you know, get on acall and sell their product or
service?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Sure.
So let's talk a little bitabout the term sales, which we
addressed a little bit earlier.
I think sales is tied to theuse car guy or gal, the people
who do magazines on the phone orwho are selling extended
warranties.
But the reality is we've beenselling for a long time and my
favorite example is think aboutthe cave drawings that we've
(14:44):
discovered over the years.
Those are sales.
You're selling people on youradventure.
You're telling a story that youhope someone's going to listen
to or look at to understand yourmessage.
It goes through hieroglyphics.
There's a million differentexamples of communicating to
extend a message, to convincesomeone that you had a good time
(15:07):
or you had a great adventure orsomething should be purchased.
So when we frame sales likethat, we do it all the time.
Another version of sales is.
One of my favorite examples isa lion never has to tell you
it's a lion.
The gazelle knows, thezookeeper knows, everybody knows
you're a lion.
So, people who are afraid ofsales, my two biggest piece of
(15:28):
advice are don't think of it assales, think of it as
storytelling.
And second is delve into yourpassion.
Just talk about it and let yourpassion come out and you're
going to generate the otherperson's interest.
Sales is when you try to makethat close at the end and we
talked about the hard versussoft close.
(15:49):
But I think people tend to loseperspective in the fact that by
being passionate about a topic,you're already selling.
So when you get the fact out ofyour head that you don't need
to call it sales, all of asudden it becomes a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I love that.
That's super powerful and it'sdefinitely it's kind of like
anything in life.
Some things are really scary,maybe out of our comfort zone,
but if we keep putting the workand the effort in, eventually
it's going to become like secondmajor to us.
It's just something you have towork towards.
Not everything's going to comeeasy Absolutely Amazing.
(16:23):
Well, can you tell us moreabout where we can find you and
your services?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sure, you can find me on LinkedIn, obviously under
Jake Stahl on LinkedIn.
You can also find me at mywebsite, jakestahlconsultingcom.
I do corporate consulting.
I have a lot of individualclients that I help them through
their sales or entrepreneurialjourney.
So it's.
I also do fractional chieflearning officers, so I will
(16:48):
step in and do the head oftraining and development for a
company, get them started andthen walk away so people can
reach out to me any of thosespots.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Awesome.
Make sure I put that in theshow notes as well.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Thank you so much, Jake, for coming on the show.
We'll talk to you guys nexttime on the Virtual Index
Podcast.
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