June 25, 2023 • 34 mins
In this episode, Amy Hermon joins us to discuss her podcast School Librarians United and how she thinks so much good can be done for librarians, kids and the world when we decide to "press record."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hi,
everyone and welcome to another Voices of literacy interview for Ru 5 15.
This week,
I am so excited to welcome Amy Herman who is a high school librarian in the greater Metro Detroit area.
Amy has been a librarian for gosh,
(00:32):
over 14 years,
she spent 14 years as an elementary school librarian.
She's worked in a total of 10 different libraries across two districts.
Previously,
she was a high school social studies teacher and now,
as I said,
is a high school librarian.
But for the purposes of this course,
we're really going to be talking to Amy in the context of the podcast,
(00:55):
the Uber successful podcast that she hosts and runs as an army of one called School United,
which is a podcast that's dedicated to the n nuts and bolts of like the everyday work of running a library.
I can't wait for you to meet Amy.
I'm so excited to have her here today.
(01:16):
Hey,
Amy.
Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation.
I'm so glad you're here.
Well,
thank you so much for the invitation.
I love the opportunity to talk with students everywhere.
I know a lot of my students already listen to school librarians United or School Libraries United and are fans of your work.
And so what I wanted to do today is chat a little bit about how you got started in this work.
(01:42):
I understand that you created your podcast to fill a gap.
Is that correct?
Oh,
absolutely.
I am.
I think I sort of had reached a place in my career where I was,
I had an,
I needed an outlet.
Something that was missing from my day to day was that high that comes with connecting with other professionals.
(02:06):
And I realized very,
very quickly that when I started presenting to educators,
that was something that was a high point for me professionally.
And then when I realized I really had so very few opportunities to do that in my,
in my school year,
I would present at my local is affiliate.
I would,
I would present at my local state conference.
(02:28):
But the reality was that having just those two little bright spots on my radar wasn't enough.
And that,
that absolutely uh reinvigorated me when I got to connect with other school librarians.
And when I went through my entire day and didn't meet another school librarian.
Presently,
I work in a district.
I am the only school librarian.
(02:48):
When I wanted to connect with other school librarians.
I had to go to my state conference to do that.
Um And so that means that I had two opportunities this school year one in November and then one in March to actually sit in a room with other school librarians.
And that's just,
that's not sustainable for me as a professional.
I love,
(03:09):
love,
love,
connecting with school librarians.
And,
and now I get to do this every week I created a very um sort of artificial environment in which we could sit for me and my guests.
We usually pour ourselves a glass of wine.
We have an adult beverage,
but we're sitting here in our,
in our uh you know,
post work,
uh you know,
comfy clothes and having a conversation typically after dinner.
(03:32):
And we're reflecting on our practice,
we're talking about the things that we struggle with and how we've overcome some of those struggles.
And it's really a conversation that can only truly happen with a school librarian and,
and knowing that that audience is going to benefit from the fact that we pressed record.
So let me ask you this,
I was aware that you were a school librarian in the greater Detroit area,
(03:54):
but I didn't know you were the only librarian for your district.
So do you serve multiple schools or do you just happen to be at the one school that has a librarian?
I just happened to be at the one school with a librarian.
And,
you know,
I,
I moved here two years ago into this district.
I had previously worked in a district with other school librarians.
But what they had done was move us around when the classes were going to be in the library so that I was on a fixed schedule.
(04:23):
I taught in nine schools in seven years,
four at a time.
That's a slow death.
Um,
yeah,
I was,
that,
that's a slow death.
And so while it is fantastic to be able to have that kind of impact on many buildings,
building that relationship that is so vital to with not only your students,
(04:43):
but also with your teachers,
that was what was lacking.
And when I was,
I had an opportunity to move to a district where I was going to be in one building,
day in and day out.
Those,
those relationships,
we hit the ground running on day one the day,
the school year hadn't even started.
I was already building relationships with my,
with my teachers because I knew the next day and the next day and the next day,
(05:05):
we were going to be working together and we're really tight and we've all sort of rallied together to support one another and I had that continuity of service and I'm not saying you can't do an effective job.
No,
my watch is talking to us.
Um you know,
but the reality is is that if you want to build a program with some continuity,
(05:27):
being able to,
to be in one building at a time is ideal.
But for many years,
I worked in multiple buildings and I,
I did the best I could under those given circumstances.
And I think one of those things that librarians are incredibly adept at doing is taking a look at what strengths we have and what opportunities we have and recognizing that we're going to thrive despite whatever sort of constraints we have,
(05:54):
whether it is a financial constraint,
it's an administrative constraint if you're working in a space that,
that doesn't give you nearly the flexibility you deserve.
But we're going to thrive in any sort of situation because that's what we've been trained to do.
You bring up such a good point about how isolating sometimes this profession can be even if you're not the only school library in your district nine times out of 10,
(06:18):
probably even the,
the statistics are higher.
You're the only one in your building.
And so you're the only person who sort understands what it is that you really do.
And I have to,
I,
I love the way you framed your podcast then as being bucket filling,
not only for your listeners,
but bucket filling for you too,
because I have to imagine you have learned a ton through all the conversations that you've had.
(06:41):
Oh,
absolutely.
And I think what we gain is that perspective,
we,
we realize we're not alone.
I think it's so hard when we go through our day and we don't engage with other people who do what we do.
More importantly,
we engage with people who don't understand what our job entails.
And it is entirely up to us to sort of create that,
(07:03):
that reality.
When people don't,
they,
they come at us with expectations of that are very stereotypical,
they come at us and expect us to be,
uh,
they don't know what,
what we are.
I,
I had a student the other day.
Go.
So what is it?
You do,
Mrs Herman?
And,
you know,
and that,
that to me means I need to do a better job of creating that,
(07:27):
that understanding for,
for the people I work with,
for the students I work with and,
and the wonderful thing is we have such a wonderful opportunity in front of us to define what others will,
will know we do and,
and to create that understanding of what school librarians do and how we support our buildings and our school communities writ large,
(07:48):
great because everyone who walks through those doors into your library,
whether they're your principal,
a teacher,
a parent or a kid,
they're a potential library supporter,
they're a future or current voter.
And in 2023 we need the folks to understand what libraries do uh more than ever.
So I'm gonna switch just here just a little bit because I'm curious,
(08:10):
do you remember who your first podcast guest was?
You know,
I did something rather informal.
I sort of sort of dipped my toe into interviewing.
So season one was a one just really by myself,
the technology for me was the hurdle content was not the hurdle,
it was the technology.
(08:31):
So I sort of tested waters of my interviewing skills by bringing my handheld microphone.
And I went to conferences and I went to situations where I could just pass a microphone back and forth and it was really fun and I,
I sort of felt like,
OK,
now,
now we got to make this happen.
And so we,
(08:52):
you know,
we learned how to,
to,
you know,
have those remote conversations before the pandemic.
And that really was sort of foundation that was important.
So my first interviews were really sort of done on the fly at conferences with other school librarians,
just passing the microphone back and forth.
And I really sort of realized this is something I want to do.
(09:13):
I wanted to do sort of a long form interview much like N Pr Terry Gross Cher.
I wanted that deep dive because I wanted to be able,
I wanted to have those conversations at the time.
I was having them in the,
in my driveway with myself and that's dumb because I'm not getting that,
that feedback.
And uh so I,
I really craved that,
(09:34):
that long form interview.
And,
and so I was very fortunate I had gone to 16 19 with my little silly business cards and I just sort of threw myself at anybody who had,
who was at one of those library and get togethers,
those library playgrounds.
And I said,
would you be,
would you be on my show?
Would you be on my show?
And at this point,
I had never done a long form interview.
(09:56):
And so I was really grateful because when I met people there like Joy and Boudreaux,
like Amanda Jones,
you know,
these are people who said,
yeah,
I'll be on your show and I'm like,
really?
Ok.
So I went home,
it was like,
ok,
well,
now we're going to figure this out.
And again,
this is all pre pandemic.
(10:17):
So having that,
I,
I was using Skype,
I think,
which was really sort of pre pre the precursor sort of to zoom.
And so we had sort of quite a few episodes under,
under my belt,
at least that when the pandemic hit and everything shut down,
I had this very selfish realization that I was gonna keep on going and now we're gonna bump it up.
(10:43):
We're gonna be doing multiple episodes a month and,
and it really was sort of,
this podcasting became a conference that was 24 7 because we were now going to be home.
We weren't gonna be,
you know,
working physically in our spaces,
but we still needed to support each other more than ever.
And I knew a bunch of people who were sitting on presentations that were now not gonna happen because a lal A 2020 which is where I was supposed to present was now canceled.
(11:13):
So I started reaching out to those librarians and I started reaching out to other librarians whose conferences like the conferences were going to be canceled like SD 20 which was supposed to happen in Anaheim.
I,
I reached out to a couple of librarians there and I got some episodes right there and that was really validating because when you realize we were robbed of the opportunity to meet face,
to face the podcasting,
(11:34):
replaced that in so much that we could have that,
that conversation and then put those resources in the show notes so that listeners could take what they needed and do that deep dive on their own if they wanted to and news flash,
if they didn't catch it on Monday,
they could catch it on Tuesday or on Wednesday or on Thursday,
right?
And I,
I love what you're saying there about there being,
(11:56):
you know,
opportunities in every challenge.
I mean,
obviously,
we all wish the pandemic hadn't happened to many people lost their lives.
We all wish that had never happened.
But I think there is a lesson there about looking for the opportunities within the challenge because even though we were now facing this thing that none of us had ever done before,
if we look deep enough,
we can find some opportunities to make the best of that situation.
(12:18):
I think librarians are particularly adept at that,
but also I'm like,
delighted,
I'm so fascinated by the way you built scaffolding for yourself,
like deciding you wanted to do this.
But starting with just your mic and pe you know,
handing the mic over to people in conferences.
I love that because I think for a lot of my students,
(12:38):
there's a little bit of um I don't know,
feeling afraid or intimidated by the technology wanting to do something like this,
whether it's a podcast or it's a video series or whatever for their school community,
for their public library,
et cetera.
Technology can feel intimidating.
The who would ever want to talk to me?
(13:00):
Kind of an intimidation of feeling as though you're not good enough,
that sort of imposter syndrome of feeling like you don't have,
uh,
what anybody else would want in terms of a product.
Um,
can you talk just a little bit about how you have gotten over that or if you have,
or do you still suffer from that?
Do you still worry when you?
(13:20):
Well,
I,
you know,
I,
I do think that there are certain things that make it,
um,
sort of,
you know,
make raise the bar a little bit and,
um,
that's when we have more than one guest.
Uh,
you know,
scheduling can be really challenging because we're all adults with lives and we're trying to make this work.
You and I are already working with a time difference,
(13:41):
doing interviews with New Zealand and Australia does,
does get challenging.
We really have to do those on the weekends.
So,
um you know,
first and foremost,
the podcasting for me has to fit my life.
And I was able to do this because at the time,
I was not raising small Children,
I,
my Children were,
(14:02):
were,
were becoming,
my Children were young adults.
And II,
I also was sort of navigating the stressors of having a great deal of my life out of control.
I couldn't control my job.
My Children were growing up and my mother was dying and we live with her.
And so I found that the podcast was something that I was ready to invest in because it gave me that sense of,
(14:28):
of control.
And,
and I think that's something that's really fun.
A lot of content creators discover that when you create something that nobody else can take away from you,
you're like that kind of ownership really does give us a certain amount of confidence to tackle bigger and bigger sort of,
you know,
things our horizon.
(14:48):
But when it comes to,
to the podcast,
you know,
it always,
there's always gonna be something that,
you know,
whether it's technology and it's,
you know,
the guests.
But I think at the end of the day,
what,
what truly motivates me is the fact that there are people who will benefit from a conversation you and I are having because you press record and when you press record that gives listeners your listening community,
(15:12):
the the benefit of being able to take advantage of conversation when it's convenient for them.
And,
and I recognize that that's something that's incredibly valuable.
You already have a platform.
You're an edu,
you know,
as,
as a,
as a national speaker,
as a,
as a published author,
you already have a platform.
One of the fun things I've been able to do is shine the spotlight on the everyday librarian,
(15:35):
the librarian who day in and day out,
I'm gonna go do my job and there may be some aspect of what I do,
which is absolutely a home run with my,
with my teachers,
with my students.
And the wonderful thing is that if you provide us the opportunity to share that resource,
if you provide us that,
that opportunity to do that,
(15:55):
share that conversation with listeners,
then you know,
and you know,
it's not a zero sum game.
If,
if you and I share this conversation with your listeners,
it doesn't in any way diminish what I,
what I achieve on a daily basis.
You,
you,
you don't lose anything by sharing your,
with your students.
And you know,
a rising tide lifts all boats.
(16:16):
We're in a profession that truly benefits every time one of us gets the spotlight.
China,
you know,
to have that spotlight.
And I,
I think about the people I've interviewed around the world who have generously given of their resources and their time and their energy because then,
you know,
you got a librarian who is perhaps in Florida listening to that conversation and taking something from it.
(16:41):
I've talked to librarians in Australia who have listened to episodes of interviews I've done with school librarians in,
in Florida and they have used,
they have incorporated what they've learned from those conversations in their practice in Australia.
Uh,
you know,
it,
it's really sort of an opportunity for school librarians to be,
you know,
take that center stage and,
and I love it.
(17:02):
II I couldn't agree more.
Yeah,
I could not agree more.
I've been doing this for 200 years approximately and way back when I first started,
you know,
I mean,
I'll never forget.
I,
I was very fortunate this was before Twitter,
before any of that,
you know,
kind of stuff.
Um But to be connected with uh a few mentors who have continued to influence me over the years,
(17:26):
of course,
Doctor Joyce Valenza,
who may be listening to this.
Um But also Gwyneth Jones who told me years and years ago,
you know,
share shamelessly and that for me has been one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received because I feel like exactly what you're saying,
(17:48):
you lose nothing by sharing if anything you gain so much,
especially in a profession like ours,
which can be isolating and it's frankly under attack in 2023 you say a rising tide lifts all boats.
Absolutely.
And I would add that without others there to help us,
we get lost at sea.
(18:08):
It's much easier to capsize a boat on its own without,
you know,
your community there.
So in 2023 I feel like your work is more necessary than ever.
Not just to educate the public,
but also to help those who are in the trenches right now feel like they're not alone.
Well,
(18:28):
and something,
you know,
talking about building that PLN because,
you know,
most of the time we are very much alone and yet I'm not because as I have interviewed more and more school librarians around the country and around the world,
they become part of my virtual pl then and,
and I become,
you know,
we're just,
we just become friends who text and so we just become friends who text and,
(18:52):
and even more so sometimes I'm like,
you know,
can we just call when I'm on my way home?
You know,
I'm gonna be driving home between four and five.
Can we just talk?
And,
and it is funny because you,
you podcasting creates that sense of intimacy that,
that conversation and,
and most of the time my guest,
I mean,
you and I have never met but,
but collegially,
(19:13):
I don't know if that's a word,
but the fact is that that's ok.
We say it and make it and we make it real.
But,
but honestly,
there is it when you recognize how much we bring to this conversation that we share in common in terms of having that shared experience.
You and I have the benefit of being able to know right off the bat.
(19:35):
We have a great deal in common.
So most of my guests,
it's the first and only time we've ever shared a conversation and it usually isn't the last because we usually continue.
There are follow ups and people who like to come back on the show again and again.
But truly,
you know,
we have so much that we can share with one another that if we have a struggle,
it is the best thing we can do is reach out to another school librarian.
(19:58):
And something I tell my listeners is,
you know,
follow the people who are on our show and 99% of the time,
I've never had a guest who wasn't like,
listen,
if one of your guests wants to reach out to me because they're doing this,
I'm happy to talk with them.
I'm happy to share with them.
There are no pay walls.
And in fact,
I've been very upfront about my decision to take on corporate sponsorship because,
(20:19):
you know,
five years going and I'm gonna be starting season six this summer.
And the fact is,
it's amazing.
I've never charged uh a listener to tune in because I've had the benefit of corporate sponsorship and fine with corporate sponsorship because it means that the people who need the information the most are the ones who are going to have it freely accessible.
(20:41):
It is truly a library in so much that there is no barrier to untra so that anybody,
you know,
your,
your phone comes with a factory installed app on it to listen to podcasts.
You might as well take advantage of that.
There's most podcasts I listen to.
There's no fee whatsoever and there's nothing behind any sort of payroll.
And the reason we do that is because the people who should benefit from this are oftentimes,
(21:05):
people who,
you know,
for whom their districts are not going to send them to a conference,
there is no conference money.
If you want to go,
you can pay out of pocket.
And that is certainly a bar.
Nobody should have to,
to have to,
to overcome.
And,
you know,
I listened to librarians who are like,
yeah,
I have to write a grant if I want to go to a conference.
And I'm like,
you know,
that's terrible.
And,
(21:26):
and for some districts,
it's like,
if you want,
if you want PD that actually speaks to the school librarians in your district,
I've had districts who have permitted those,
those school librarians to listen to podcasts and reflect on them and,
and create that,
that sort of point from which they can do some of their own PD that's relevant because all too often,
you know,
we are goes back to this idea that my podcast logo is the square peg in a round hole because we're always having to modify what we learn and have it fit into our space.
(21:56):
But as school librarians,
all of our spaces are unique,
the challenges we face are unique and yet there's a great deal that I can learn from another school librarian if we have that common,
you know,
foundation of,
we're all,
we all come to this as a school librarian.
All of a sudden the advice that I'm getting from halfway around the world or across the country is incredibly relevant and it can be easily modified to support the the challenges I have in my space.
(22:21):
I love that.
I love that.
Now,
I would be remiss if I didn't spend at least a couple of minutes of the few that we have left um asking to just talk a little bit about the tech because this course really is about technology in libraries and how we can leverage that technology to make the world better because I believe that's the librarian's job at its heart.
Um And so I'm curious if you can just kind of walk us through,
(22:44):
like what is your operation look like?
What tools do you use,
et cetera?
Because I know my students will be interested in that.
So I,
I am I'm happy to share,
I actually have a resource I can share with you called Becoming a podcaster.
And I and I will make sure to give you that link before we go and and truth be told,
(23:05):
I've never actually presented that topic.
I created it and then the conference was canceled.
And so,
but I continue to add to it and then I,
I share it out with anybody who wants it because we're either looking to create recorded podcast tests for,
you know,
ourselves as professionals or working with our students to do some sort of,
(23:27):
you know,
program in our,
in our classrooms.
The reality is is that technology is there's always going to be a technology hurdle because technology is always evolving.
And,
and what was in place five years ago,
what was in place when I graduated from,
from library school is drastically going to change.
And I've sort of had to evolve.
But I'm found at the basis the foundation we do our research like any school librarian whenever we're tackling a project.
(23:55):
And so I took podcasting on in the same way that I took on every project I do and that is we do our homework.
We are,
we do our due diligence by doing that research.
And when it comes to technology,
I'm not going to be,
I'm not ashamed to admit that I am youtube trained,
I am youtube trained in so much because when it comes to choosing a platform,
I'm going to use,
share out you as a media,
(24:17):
as a media host.
Uh When it comes to what microphone I use,
when it comes to my setup,
when it comes to what kind of uh recording platform that you and I use.
Uh,
I'm going to rely on the,
uh,
you know,
sort of all those people who share it on youtube.
I become youtube trained and when I learn new and innovative ways to do something different,
(24:39):
I'm going to go back to youtube.
I'm going to do some of my homework.
I have trust in this source because I have the,
the liberty to,
to listen to a variety of different people's opinions.
Uh,
and so like all librarians,
I go at this being informed youtube is going to be a fantastic resource to do some of those investigations when it comes to Ed Tech because Ed Tech is,
(25:04):
and I'll be honest,
Ed Tech podcasts were the ones I was listening to first because when I was a,
you know,
this would have been six years ago,
you know,
this would have been six or seven years ago.
I started listening to podcasts and the first thing I said,
well,
where's the podcast that'll help me do my job.
And I looked around and I saw that there are a plethora of,
(25:24):
uh,
sort of,
um,
teaching podcasts,
teaching traditional teaching in the,
in the classroom podcast,
which helped when you,
depending on the grade level we support.
And as you,
as your students know,
if you are,
we are all K 12 certified and,
and you may think you're gonna land that job in,
in the in the position that you are most,
you know,
like I said,
(25:45):
you know,
I taught high school for 10 years.
Of course,
the library I'm gonna land is gonna be a high school 14 years later in an elementary school.
No,
that is not the case,
but it does.
There's no,
no experience is ever wasted.
But,
but like everything we,
we undertake,
we're gonna do our research.
I'll be happy to share with you some of the resources I've collected.
(26:06):
I'll put it in the show now.
And the reality is,
is that this,
you know,
with the technology always changing you,
I don't think we should ever be paralyzed by the fact that it isn't perfect when we start.
So my podcast when it started in,
in August of 2018 was,
it was just me myself and I,
it was just me and I didn't care if anybody listened to it.
(26:30):
It made me happy.
And that was the best advice that I'd ever been given was,
would you still do this if nobody listened?
And,
and the reality is my answer is yes,
because I'm doing this for me and if somebody else listens,
that's great.
And,
and you know,
that has to be a conversation that you have with yourself when you become a content creator.
(26:51):
And,
and obviously,
it's a different story altogether if you're doing this with your students.
But for me,
ultimately,
it became that I couldn't let the technology you don't want to let perfection be the enemy of the good.
So,
um it's a Tracy Chan's just a phrase,
a brave before.
Perfect.
And um I know that other people have expressed a similar sentiment,
(27:13):
but this idea that you can't possibly have it,
you know,
this isn't fully formed,
like anything you do,
like anything you've done,
it isn't fully hatched when,
when you,
when you conceive of it and it's not going to be,
but you sort of grow and evolve and,
and it,
that's really been something that sort of fun.
And I,
I don't mean to be sort of trivial,
but this idea that when you create something at some point,
(27:36):
it takes on a life of its own.
It does.
And if you're doing,
if you're,
if you're doing it,
well,
it takes it,
it sort of takes on many of the,
of the needs and,
and reflects the podcast reflects a lot of what has happened to us over the last couple of years and the,
and the listenership and who has been tuning in?
Because oftentimes what they say is,
could you do an episode on this?
(27:57):
Could you do an episode on this?
And when you start to take those on as the next,
the next thing on your challenge that you want to do?
Oh,
I want to do that episode.
I want to do this episode.
You know,
we're gonna do chat GP T next month and I gotta tell you,
I was not ready to take it on in January because everything was real new.
But I think once I sort of worked out,
(28:19):
we found a guest who's gonna come on the show and,
and I'm,
I'm ready to take that on.
It's a big topic.
But I also wanted to feel good about where I was and where my guest was and have something that I think our,
our listeners are going to benefit from.
It's amazing,
you know,
you,
I'm nodding,
people aren't gonna be able to see me just nodding out when you say that that's been pretty much the case as we've been talking.
(28:40):
Um But it really resonates with me,
your experience of feeling like,
uh there's a,
there's a lot of Ed Tech podcasts out there,
there's a lot of classroom specific and even like discipline specific podcasts out there.
And certainly you mentioned chat GP T,
I mean,
(29:00):
I feel like I've been a guest on 20 podcasts since January on that topic and all of them are Ed Tech,
you know,
and I,
I'm always just trying to crowbar the library into these Ed Tech experiences.
Like,
you know,
you ask me,
I'm gonna talk about it from a library perspective,
you know.
Um So I'm so delighted that your podcasts exist that you are out there curating these voices for not just my students,
(29:28):
but for librarians and library folk uh around the world so that we can talk about how our work.
Uh not only affects students but a lot of my own students are public librarians so affects our community in ways that are positive.
And it,
it gives me a lot,
I don't know,
it's bucket feeling for me to just know that you're out there doing this work.
(29:50):
So,
on behalf of me and other old fogies out there,
thank you.
Um The other thing I just want to and,
and I want to highlight you talking about the youtube trained because you know,
who else is youtube trained?
Our students are the young people we serve,
whether it is in a school or it is in a public library.
Uh Our young people are gaining their skills from youtube as well.
(30:12):
I think that's completely legit and not only does that help us grow our abilities and skill sets,
but it also helps us speak their language when it comes to building those relationships and um helping our kids use the skills that they have for school related functions which don't often feel like they are uh that they mesh together.
(30:33):
So before we go,
I always end these interviews with one question which is if you wouldn't mind uh sharing what you're reading right now or something that you've just finished reading,
it doesn't have to be a work of fiction,
be anything.
So,
but I love my students to hear what other folks what their reading lives look like.
Sure.
Well,
and I'll tell you what,
as somebody who has a commute of 30 minutes,
(30:55):
I am a huge fan of audio books and I,
I will consume AAA diet of,
of audio books on the daily.
And it is not unusual to get about two hours of listening between when I'm emptying the dishwasher and I'm making dinner and I'm walking my dog and,
(31:19):
you know,
it is there.
I,
I have,
I,
I'm as bad as I'm as bad as the kids.
I've got my,
my airpods in and I'm listening.
So I,
as a high school librarian,
I am not new to,
to Mary Roach but,
but Mary Roach who does Mary Roach continues to just,
(31:39):
and I'm such a nonfiction reader,
uh,
from,
from my core,
I was a nonfiction reader as a in my,
in my youth and,
oh,
yes.
Yes.
So,
absolutely.
So I,
we're looking at our book shelves.
So,
so friends,
I,
I did listen to Steph and,
um,
I know that's,
I think that's her first book and I loved it.
(32:00):
And II,
I went,
I made sure to buy everything that,
that she has and by the way she responds to you,
if you put her on,
if you,
if you add her on Twitter,
I mean,
I got a response in five minutes.
It was like,
I gotta tell you,
Library Twitter is alive and well friends.
It truly is.
I really,
Twitter is a cesspool but Library Twitter is a very fantastic place to connect with professionals.
Another uh author who also,
(32:21):
who also returned to a,
you know,
AAA that I put out almost is um the lesbian guide to Catholic School,
which is huge.
This is um Sonora Reyes.
Sonora Reyes,
the lesbians guide to Catholic School loved every bit of it.
I had so much fun.
(32:41):
So it was really sort of fun.
And those,
and again,
very,
very um high school,
high school reads because,
you know,
I was in elementary for 14 years,
which meant I was reading a lot of sort of upper elementary,
middle grade books and,
and it's not to say that I'm playing catch up.
But I,
I am like being very dutiful in trying to read a great deal of what I want to purchase and what I have purchased.
(33:06):
So my TB TB L to be listened,
to be listening to audio books,
I just walk,
you know,
and again,
this goes back to this idea of building that PLN because so many of the people who influence my purchasing,
you know,
are people on library Twitter who have put out their reading recommendations.
And I,
again,
(33:27):
I put,
put so much,
so much confidence and faith in my profession to make sure that when I'm building my collection I'm doing so,
not just on my,
my gut instinct about how well I know my school community,
but also from the,
the,
the expert advice of school librarians who have been at this longer than I have,
(33:48):
especially in supporting the different grade levels.
Maybe that I'm new to,
we have to be ready to teach at any grade level and,
and be good at it and be convincing.
And that's why,
you know,
I've learned to rely so heavily on the people I interview and the people who,
who I follow on social media.
Thank you,
Amy.
I so appreciate your time today.
I'm looking forward to sharing a number of resources about where you can follow Amy,
(34:12):
how you can listen to her podcast and then also uh the document she's going to share regarding how to get started with podcasting if you're interested.
Uh I'll see you all or hear you all next week for another voices of literacy conversation.
Until then.
Thanks so much,
Amy.
I look forward to seeing you on Twitter.
Thanks so much.
I appreciate it.
Hi,
everyone and welcome to another Voices of literacy interview for Ru 5 15.
This week,
I am so excited to welcome Amy Herman who is a high school librarian in the greater Metro Detroit area.
Amy has been a librarian for gosh,
(00:32):
over 14 years,
she spent 14 years as an elementary school librarian.
She's worked in a total of 10 different libraries across two districts.
Previously,
she was a high school social studies teacher and now,
as I said,
is a high school librarian.
But for the purposes of this course,
we're really going to be talking to Amy in the context of the podcast,
(00:55):
the Uber successful podcast that she hosts and runs as an army of one called School United,
which is a podcast that's dedicated to the n nuts and bolts of like the everyday work of running a library.
I can't wait for you to meet Amy.
I'm so excited to have her here today.
(01:16):
Hey,
Amy.
Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation.
I'm so glad you're here.
Well,
thank you so much for the invitation.
I love the opportunity to talk with students everywhere.
I know a lot of my students already listen to school librarians United or School Libraries United and are fans of your work.
And so what I wanted to do today is chat a little bit about how you got started in this work.
(01:42):
I understand that you created your podcast to fill a gap.
Is that correct?
Oh,
absolutely.
I am.
I think I sort of had reached a place in my career where I was,
I had an,
I needed an outlet.
Something that was missing from my day to day was that high that comes with connecting with other professionals.
(02:06):
And I realized very,
very quickly that when I started presenting to educators,
that was something that was a high point for me professionally.
And then when I realized I really had so very few opportunities to do that in my,
in my school year,
I would present at my local is affiliate.
I would,
I would present at my local state conference.
(02:28):
But the reality was that having just those two little bright spots on my radar wasn't enough.
And that,
that absolutely uh reinvigorated me when I got to connect with other school librarians.
And when I went through my entire day and didn't meet another school librarian.
Presently,
I work in a district.
I am the only school librarian.
(02:48):
When I wanted to connect with other school librarians.
I had to go to my state conference to do that.
Um And so that means that I had two opportunities this school year one in November and then one in March to actually sit in a room with other school librarians.
And that's just,
that's not sustainable for me as a professional.
I love,
(03:09):
love,
love,
connecting with school librarians.
And,
and now I get to do this every week I created a very um sort of artificial environment in which we could sit for me and my guests.
We usually pour ourselves a glass of wine.
We have an adult beverage,
but we're sitting here in our,
in our uh you know,
post work,
uh you know,
comfy clothes and having a conversation typically after dinner.
(03:32):
And we're reflecting on our practice,
we're talking about the things that we struggle with and how we've overcome some of those struggles.
And it's really a conversation that can only truly happen with a school librarian and,
and knowing that that audience is going to benefit from the fact that we pressed record.
So let me ask you this,
I was aware that you were a school librarian in the greater Detroit area,
(03:54):
but I didn't know you were the only librarian for your district.
So do you serve multiple schools or do you just happen to be at the one school that has a librarian?
I just happened to be at the one school with a librarian.
And,
you know,
I,
I moved here two years ago into this district.
I had previously worked in a district with other school librarians.
But what they had done was move us around when the classes were going to be in the library so that I was on a fixed schedule.
(04:23):
I taught in nine schools in seven years,
four at a time.
That's a slow death.
Um,
yeah,
I was,
that,
that's a slow death.
And so while it is fantastic to be able to have that kind of impact on many buildings,
building that relationship that is so vital to with not only your students,
(04:43):
but also with your teachers,
that was what was lacking.
And when I was,
I had an opportunity to move to a district where I was going to be in one building,
day in and day out.
Those,
those relationships,
we hit the ground running on day one the day,
the school year hadn't even started.
I was already building relationships with my,
with my teachers because I knew the next day and the next day and the next day,
(05:05):
we were going to be working together and we're really tight and we've all sort of rallied together to support one another and I had that continuity of service and I'm not saying you can't do an effective job.
No,
my watch is talking to us.
Um you know,
but the reality is is that if you want to build a program with some continuity,
(05:27):
being able to,
to be in one building at a time is ideal.
But for many years,
I worked in multiple buildings and I,
I did the best I could under those given circumstances.
And I think one of those things that librarians are incredibly adept at doing is taking a look at what strengths we have and what opportunities we have and recognizing that we're going to thrive despite whatever sort of constraints we have,
(05:54):
whether it is a financial constraint,
it's an administrative constraint if you're working in a space that,
that doesn't give you nearly the flexibility you deserve.
But we're going to thrive in any sort of situation because that's what we've been trained to do.
You bring up such a good point about how isolating sometimes this profession can be even if you're not the only school library in your district nine times out of 10,
(06:18):
probably even the,
the statistics are higher.
You're the only one in your building.
And so you're the only person who sort understands what it is that you really do.
And I have to,
I,
I love the way you framed your podcast then as being bucket filling,
not only for your listeners,
but bucket filling for you too,
because I have to imagine you have learned a ton through all the conversations that you've had.
(06:41):
Oh,
absolutely.
And I think what we gain is that perspective,
we,
we realize we're not alone.
I think it's so hard when we go through our day and we don't engage with other people who do what we do.
More importantly,
we engage with people who don't understand what our job entails.
And it is entirely up to us to sort of create that,
(07:03):
that reality.
When people don't,
they,
they come at us with expectations of that are very stereotypical,
they come at us and expect us to be,
uh,
they don't know what,
what we are.
I,
I had a student the other day.
Go.
So what is it?
You do,
Mrs Herman?
And,
you know,
and that,
that to me means I need to do a better job of creating that,
(07:27):
that understanding for,
for the people I work with,
for the students I work with and,
and the wonderful thing is we have such a wonderful opportunity in front of us to define what others will,
will know we do and,
and to create that understanding of what school librarians do and how we support our buildings and our school communities writ large,
(07:48):
great because everyone who walks through those doors into your library,
whether they're your principal,
a teacher,
a parent or a kid,
they're a potential library supporter,
they're a future or current voter.
And in 2023 we need the folks to understand what libraries do uh more than ever.
So I'm gonna switch just here just a little bit because I'm curious,
(08:10):
do you remember who your first podcast guest was?
You know,
I did something rather informal.
I sort of sort of dipped my toe into interviewing.
So season one was a one just really by myself,
the technology for me was the hurdle content was not the hurdle,
it was the technology.
(08:31):
So I sort of tested waters of my interviewing skills by bringing my handheld microphone.
And I went to conferences and I went to situations where I could just pass a microphone back and forth and it was really fun and I,
I sort of felt like,
OK,
now,
now we got to make this happen.
And so we,
(08:52):
you know,
we learned how to,
to,
you know,
have those remote conversations before the pandemic.
And that really was sort of foundation that was important.
So my first interviews were really sort of done on the fly at conferences with other school librarians,
just passing the microphone back and forth.
And I really sort of realized this is something I want to do.
(09:13):
I wanted to do sort of a long form interview much like N Pr Terry Gross Cher.
I wanted that deep dive because I wanted to be able,
I wanted to have those conversations at the time.
I was having them in the,
in my driveway with myself and that's dumb because I'm not getting that,
that feedback.
And uh so I,
I really craved that,
(09:34):
that long form interview.
And,
and so I was very fortunate I had gone to 16 19 with my little silly business cards and I just sort of threw myself at anybody who had,
who was at one of those library and get togethers,
those library playgrounds.
And I said,
would you be,
would you be on my show?
Would you be on my show?
And at this point,
I had never done a long form interview.
(09:56):
And so I was really grateful because when I met people there like Joy and Boudreaux,
like Amanda Jones,
you know,
these are people who said,
yeah,
I'll be on your show and I'm like,
really?
Ok.
So I went home,
it was like,
ok,
well,
now we're going to figure this out.
And again,
this is all pre pandemic.
(10:17):
So having that,
I,
I was using Skype,
I think,
which was really sort of pre pre the precursor sort of to zoom.
And so we had sort of quite a few episodes under,
under my belt,
at least that when the pandemic hit and everything shut down,
I had this very selfish realization that I was gonna keep on going and now we're gonna bump it up.
(10:43):
We're gonna be doing multiple episodes a month and,
and it really was sort of,
this podcasting became a conference that was 24 7 because we were now going to be home.
We weren't gonna be,
you know,
working physically in our spaces,
but we still needed to support each other more than ever.
And I knew a bunch of people who were sitting on presentations that were now not gonna happen because a lal A 2020 which is where I was supposed to present was now canceled.
(11:13):
So I started reaching out to those librarians and I started reaching out to other librarians whose conferences like the conferences were going to be canceled like SD 20 which was supposed to happen in Anaheim.
I,
I reached out to a couple of librarians there and I got some episodes right there and that was really validating because when you realize we were robbed of the opportunity to meet face,
to face the podcasting,
(11:34):
replaced that in so much that we could have that,
that conversation and then put those resources in the show notes so that listeners could take what they needed and do that deep dive on their own if they wanted to and news flash,
if they didn't catch it on Monday,
they could catch it on Tuesday or on Wednesday or on Thursday,
right?
And I,
I love what you're saying there about there being,
(11:56):
you know,
opportunities in every challenge.
I mean,
obviously,
we all wish the pandemic hadn't happened to many people lost their lives.
We all wish that had never happened.
But I think there is a lesson there about looking for the opportunities within the challenge because even though we were now facing this thing that none of us had ever done before,
if we look deep enough,
we can find some opportunities to make the best of that situation.
(12:18):
I think librarians are particularly adept at that,
but also I'm like,
delighted,
I'm so fascinated by the way you built scaffolding for yourself,
like deciding you wanted to do this.
But starting with just your mic and pe you know,
handing the mic over to people in conferences.
I love that because I think for a lot of my students,
(12:38):
there's a little bit of um I don't know,
feeling afraid or intimidated by the technology wanting to do something like this,
whether it's a podcast or it's a video series or whatever for their school community,
for their public library,
et cetera.
Technology can feel intimidating.
The who would ever want to talk to me?
(13:00):
Kind of an intimidation of feeling as though you're not good enough,
that sort of imposter syndrome of feeling like you don't have,
uh,
what anybody else would want in terms of a product.
Um,
can you talk just a little bit about how you have gotten over that or if you have,
or do you still suffer from that?
Do you still worry when you?
(13:20):
Well,
I,
you know,
I,
I do think that there are certain things that make it,
um,
sort of,
you know,
make raise the bar a little bit and,
um,
that's when we have more than one guest.
Uh,
you know,
scheduling can be really challenging because we're all adults with lives and we're trying to make this work.
You and I are already working with a time difference,
(13:41):
doing interviews with New Zealand and Australia does,
does get challenging.
We really have to do those on the weekends.
So,
um you know,
first and foremost,
the podcasting for me has to fit my life.
And I was able to do this because at the time,
I was not raising small Children,
I,
my Children were,
(14:02):
were,
were becoming,
my Children were young adults.
And II,
I also was sort of navigating the stressors of having a great deal of my life out of control.
I couldn't control my job.
My Children were growing up and my mother was dying and we live with her.
And so I found that the podcast was something that I was ready to invest in because it gave me that sense of,
(14:28):
of control.
And,
and I think that's something that's really fun.
A lot of content creators discover that when you create something that nobody else can take away from you,
you're like that kind of ownership really does give us a certain amount of confidence to tackle bigger and bigger sort of,
you know,
things our horizon.
(14:48):
But when it comes to,
to the podcast,
you know,
it always,
there's always gonna be something that,
you know,
whether it's technology and it's,
you know,
the guests.
But I think at the end of the day,
what,
what truly motivates me is the fact that there are people who will benefit from a conversation you and I are having because you press record and when you press record that gives listeners your listening community,
(15:12):
the the benefit of being able to take advantage of conversation when it's convenient for them.
And,
and I recognize that that's something that's incredibly valuable.
You already have a platform.
You're an edu,
you know,
as,
as a,
as a national speaker,
as a,
as a published author,
you already have a platform.
One of the fun things I've been able to do is shine the spotlight on the everyday librarian,
(15:35):
the librarian who day in and day out,
I'm gonna go do my job and there may be some aspect of what I do,
which is absolutely a home run with my,
with my teachers,
with my students.
And the wonderful thing is that if you provide us the opportunity to share that resource,
if you provide us that,
that opportunity to do that,
(15:55):
share that conversation with listeners,
then you know,
and you know,
it's not a zero sum game.
If,
if you and I share this conversation with your listeners,
it doesn't in any way diminish what I,
what I achieve on a daily basis.
You,
you,
you don't lose anything by sharing your,
with your students.
And you know,
a rising tide lifts all boats.
(16:16):
We're in a profession that truly benefits every time one of us gets the spotlight.
China,
you know,
to have that spotlight.
And I,
I think about the people I've interviewed around the world who have generously given of their resources and their time and their energy because then,
you know,
you got a librarian who is perhaps in Florida listening to that conversation and taking something from it.
(16:41):
I've talked to librarians in Australia who have listened to episodes of interviews I've done with school librarians in,
in Florida and they have used,
they have incorporated what they've learned from those conversations in their practice in Australia.
Uh,
you know,
it,
it's really sort of an opportunity for school librarians to be,
you know,
take that center stage and,
and I love it.
(17:02):
II I couldn't agree more.
Yeah,
I could not agree more.
I've been doing this for 200 years approximately and way back when I first started,
you know,
I mean,
I'll never forget.
I,
I was very fortunate this was before Twitter,
before any of that,
you know,
kind of stuff.
Um But to be connected with uh a few mentors who have continued to influence me over the years,
(17:26):
of course,
Doctor Joyce Valenza,
who may be listening to this.
Um But also Gwyneth Jones who told me years and years ago,
you know,
share shamelessly and that for me has been one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received because I feel like exactly what you're saying,
(17:48):
you lose nothing by sharing if anything you gain so much,
especially in a profession like ours,
which can be isolating and it's frankly under attack in 2023 you say a rising tide lifts all boats.
Absolutely.
And I would add that without others there to help us,
we get lost at sea.
(18:08):
It's much easier to capsize a boat on its own without,
you know,
your community there.
So in 2023 I feel like your work is more necessary than ever.
Not just to educate the public,
but also to help those who are in the trenches right now feel like they're not alone.
Well,
(18:28):
and something,
you know,
talking about building that PLN because,
you know,
most of the time we are very much alone and yet I'm not because as I have interviewed more and more school librarians around the country and around the world,
they become part of my virtual pl then and,
and I become,
you know,
we're just,
we just become friends who text and so we just become friends who text and,
(18:52):
and even more so sometimes I'm like,
you know,
can we just call when I'm on my way home?
You know,
I'm gonna be driving home between four and five.
Can we just talk?
And,
and it is funny because you,
you podcasting creates that sense of intimacy that,
that conversation and,
and most of the time my guest,
I mean,
you and I have never met but,
but collegially,
(19:13):
I don't know if that's a word,
but the fact is that that's ok.
We say it and make it and we make it real.
But,
but honestly,
there is it when you recognize how much we bring to this conversation that we share in common in terms of having that shared experience.
You and I have the benefit of being able to know right off the bat.
(19:35):
We have a great deal in common.
So most of my guests,
it's the first and only time we've ever shared a conversation and it usually isn't the last because we usually continue.
There are follow ups and people who like to come back on the show again and again.
But truly,
you know,
we have so much that we can share with one another that if we have a struggle,
it is the best thing we can do is reach out to another school librarian.
(19:58):
And something I tell my listeners is,
you know,
follow the people who are on our show and 99% of the time,
I've never had a guest who wasn't like,
listen,
if one of your guests wants to reach out to me because they're doing this,
I'm happy to talk with them.
I'm happy to share with them.
There are no pay walls.
And in fact,
I've been very upfront about my decision to take on corporate sponsorship because,
(20:19):
you know,
five years going and I'm gonna be starting season six this summer.
And the fact is,
it's amazing.
I've never charged uh a listener to tune in because I've had the benefit of corporate sponsorship and fine with corporate sponsorship because it means that the people who need the information the most are the ones who are going to have it freely accessible.
(20:41):
It is truly a library in so much that there is no barrier to untra so that anybody,
you know,
your,
your phone comes with a factory installed app on it to listen to podcasts.
You might as well take advantage of that.
There's most podcasts I listen to.
There's no fee whatsoever and there's nothing behind any sort of payroll.
And the reason we do that is because the people who should benefit from this are oftentimes,
(21:05):
people who,
you know,
for whom their districts are not going to send them to a conference,
there is no conference money.
If you want to go,
you can pay out of pocket.
And that is certainly a bar.
Nobody should have to,
to have to,
to overcome.
And,
you know,
I listened to librarians who are like,
yeah,
I have to write a grant if I want to go to a conference.
And I'm like,
you know,
that's terrible.
And,
(21:26):
and for some districts,
it's like,
if you want,
if you want PD that actually speaks to the school librarians in your district,
I've had districts who have permitted those,
those school librarians to listen to podcasts and reflect on them and,
and create that,
that sort of point from which they can do some of their own PD that's relevant because all too often,
you know,
we are goes back to this idea that my podcast logo is the square peg in a round hole because we're always having to modify what we learn and have it fit into our space.
(21:56):
But as school librarians,
all of our spaces are unique,
the challenges we face are unique and yet there's a great deal that I can learn from another school librarian if we have that common,
you know,
foundation of,
we're all,
we all come to this as a school librarian.
All of a sudden the advice that I'm getting from halfway around the world or across the country is incredibly relevant and it can be easily modified to support the the challenges I have in my space.
(22:21):
I love that.
I love that.
Now,
I would be remiss if I didn't spend at least a couple of minutes of the few that we have left um asking to just talk a little bit about the tech because this course really is about technology in libraries and how we can leverage that technology to make the world better because I believe that's the librarian's job at its heart.
Um And so I'm curious if you can just kind of walk us through,
(22:44):
like what is your operation look like?
What tools do you use,
et cetera?
Because I know my students will be interested in that.
So I,
I am I'm happy to share,
I actually have a resource I can share with you called Becoming a podcaster.
And I and I will make sure to give you that link before we go and and truth be told,
(23:05):
I've never actually presented that topic.
I created it and then the conference was canceled.
And so,
but I continue to add to it and then I,
I share it out with anybody who wants it because we're either looking to create recorded podcast tests for,
you know,
ourselves as professionals or working with our students to do some sort of,
(23:27):
you know,
program in our,
in our classrooms.
The reality is is that technology is there's always going to be a technology hurdle because technology is always evolving.
And,
and what was in place five years ago,
what was in place when I graduated from,
from library school is drastically going to change.
And I've sort of had to evolve.
But I'm found at the basis the foundation we do our research like any school librarian whenever we're tackling a project.
(23:55):
And so I took podcasting on in the same way that I took on every project I do and that is we do our homework.
We are,
we do our due diligence by doing that research.
And when it comes to technology,
I'm not going to be,
I'm not ashamed to admit that I am youtube trained,
I am youtube trained in so much because when it comes to choosing a platform,
I'm going to use,
share out you as a media,
(24:17):
as a media host.
Uh When it comes to what microphone I use,
when it comes to my setup,
when it comes to what kind of uh recording platform that you and I use.
Uh,
I'm going to rely on the,
uh,
you know,
sort of all those people who share it on youtube.
I become youtube trained and when I learn new and innovative ways to do something different,
(24:39):
I'm going to go back to youtube.
I'm going to do some of my homework.
I have trust in this source because I have the,
the liberty to,
to listen to a variety of different people's opinions.
Uh,
and so like all librarians,
I go at this being informed youtube is going to be a fantastic resource to do some of those investigations when it comes to Ed Tech because Ed Tech is,
(25:04):
and I'll be honest,
Ed Tech podcasts were the ones I was listening to first because when I was a,
you know,
this would have been six years ago,
you know,
this would have been six or seven years ago.
I started listening to podcasts and the first thing I said,
well,
where's the podcast that'll help me do my job.
And I looked around and I saw that there are a plethora of,
(25:24):
uh,
sort of,
um,
teaching podcasts,
teaching traditional teaching in the,
in the classroom podcast,
which helped when you,
depending on the grade level we support.
And as you,
as your students know,
if you are,
we are all K 12 certified and,
and you may think you're gonna land that job in,
in the in the position that you are most,
you know,
like I said,
(25:45):
you know,
I taught high school for 10 years.
Of course,
the library I'm gonna land is gonna be a high school 14 years later in an elementary school.
No,
that is not the case,
but it does.
There's no,
no experience is ever wasted.
But,
but like everything we,
we undertake,
we're gonna do our research.
I'll be happy to share with you some of the resources I've collected.
(26:06):
I'll put it in the show now.
And the reality is,
is that this,
you know,
with the technology always changing you,
I don't think we should ever be paralyzed by the fact that it isn't perfect when we start.
So my podcast when it started in,
in August of 2018 was,
it was just me myself and I,
it was just me and I didn't care if anybody listened to it.
(26:30):
It made me happy.
And that was the best advice that I'd ever been given was,
would you still do this if nobody listened?
And,
and the reality is my answer is yes,
because I'm doing this for me and if somebody else listens,
that's great.
And,
and you know,
that has to be a conversation that you have with yourself when you become a content creator.
(26:51):
And,
and obviously,
it's a different story altogether if you're doing this with your students.
But for me,
ultimately,
it became that I couldn't let the technology you don't want to let perfection be the enemy of the good.
So,
um it's a Tracy Chan's just a phrase,
a brave before.
Perfect.
And um I know that other people have expressed a similar sentiment,
(27:13):
but this idea that you can't possibly have it,
you know,
this isn't fully formed,
like anything you do,
like anything you've done,
it isn't fully hatched when,
when you,
when you conceive of it and it's not going to be,
but you sort of grow and evolve and,
and it,
that's really been something that sort of fun.
And I,
I don't mean to be sort of trivial,
but this idea that when you create something at some point,
(27:36):
it takes on a life of its own.
It does.
And if you're doing,
if you're,
if you're doing it,
well,
it takes it,
it sort of takes on many of the,
of the needs and,
and reflects the podcast reflects a lot of what has happened to us over the last couple of years and the,
and the listenership and who has been tuning in?
Because oftentimes what they say is,
could you do an episode on this?
(27:57):
Could you do an episode on this?
And when you start to take those on as the next,
the next thing on your challenge that you want to do?
Oh,
I want to do that episode.
I want to do this episode.
You know,
we're gonna do chat GP T next month and I gotta tell you,
I was not ready to take it on in January because everything was real new.
But I think once I sort of worked out,
(28:19):
we found a guest who's gonna come on the show and,
and I'm,
I'm ready to take that on.
It's a big topic.
But I also wanted to feel good about where I was and where my guest was and have something that I think our,
our listeners are going to benefit from.
It's amazing,
you know,
you,
I'm nodding,
people aren't gonna be able to see me just nodding out when you say that that's been pretty much the case as we've been talking.
(28:40):
Um But it really resonates with me,
your experience of feeling like,
uh there's a,
there's a lot of Ed Tech podcasts out there,
there's a lot of classroom specific and even like discipline specific podcasts out there.
And certainly you mentioned chat GP T,
I mean,
(29:00):
I feel like I've been a guest on 20 podcasts since January on that topic and all of them are Ed Tech,
you know,
and I,
I'm always just trying to crowbar the library into these Ed Tech experiences.
Like,
you know,
you ask me,
I'm gonna talk about it from a library perspective,
you know.
Um So I'm so delighted that your podcasts exist that you are out there curating these voices for not just my students,
(29:28):
but for librarians and library folk uh around the world so that we can talk about how our work.
Uh not only affects students but a lot of my own students are public librarians so affects our community in ways that are positive.
And it,
it gives me a lot,
I don't know,
it's bucket feeling for me to just know that you're out there doing this work.
(29:50):
So,
on behalf of me and other old fogies out there,
thank you.
Um The other thing I just want to and,
and I want to highlight you talking about the youtube trained because you know,
who else is youtube trained?
Our students are the young people we serve,
whether it is in a school or it is in a public library.
Uh Our young people are gaining their skills from youtube as well.
(30:12):
I think that's completely legit and not only does that help us grow our abilities and skill sets,
but it also helps us speak their language when it comes to building those relationships and um helping our kids use the skills that they have for school related functions which don't often feel like they are uh that they mesh together.
(30:33):
So before we go,
I always end these interviews with one question which is if you wouldn't mind uh sharing what you're reading right now or something that you've just finished reading,
it doesn't have to be a work of fiction,
be anything.
So,
but I love my students to hear what other folks what their reading lives look like.
Sure.
Well,
and I'll tell you what,
as somebody who has a commute of 30 minutes,
(30:55):
I am a huge fan of audio books and I,
I will consume AAA diet of,
of audio books on the daily.
And it is not unusual to get about two hours of listening between when I'm emptying the dishwasher and I'm making dinner and I'm walking my dog and,
(31:19):
you know,
it is there.
I,
I have,
I,
I'm as bad as I'm as bad as the kids.
I've got my,
my airpods in and I'm listening.
So I,
as a high school librarian,
I am not new to,
to Mary Roach but,
but Mary Roach who does Mary Roach continues to just,
(31:39):
and I'm such a nonfiction reader,
uh,
from,
from my core,
I was a nonfiction reader as a in my,
in my youth and,
oh,
yes.
Yes.
So,
absolutely.
So I,
we're looking at our book shelves.
So,
so friends,
I,
I did listen to Steph and,
um,
I know that's,
I think that's her first book and I loved it.
(32:00):
And II,
I went,
I made sure to buy everything that,
that she has and by the way she responds to you,
if you put her on,
if you,
if you add her on Twitter,
I mean,
I got a response in five minutes.
It was like,
I gotta tell you,
Library Twitter is alive and well friends.
It truly is.
I really,
Twitter is a cesspool but Library Twitter is a very fantastic place to connect with professionals.
Another uh author who also,
(32:21):
who also returned to a,
you know,
AAA that I put out almost is um the lesbian guide to Catholic School,
which is huge.
This is um Sonora Reyes.
Sonora Reyes,
the lesbians guide to Catholic School loved every bit of it.
I had so much fun.
(32:41):
So it was really sort of fun.
And those,
and again,
very,
very um high school,
high school reads because,
you know,
I was in elementary for 14 years,
which meant I was reading a lot of sort of upper elementary,
middle grade books and,
and it's not to say that I'm playing catch up.
But I,
I am like being very dutiful in trying to read a great deal of what I want to purchase and what I have purchased.
(33:06):
So my TB TB L to be listened,
to be listening to audio books,
I just walk,
you know,
and again,
this goes back to this idea of building that PLN because so many of the people who influence my purchasing,
you know,
are people on library Twitter who have put out their reading recommendations.
And I,
again,
(33:27):
I put,
put so much,
so much confidence and faith in my profession to make sure that when I'm building my collection I'm doing so,
not just on my,
my gut instinct about how well I know my school community,
but also from the,
the,
the expert advice of school librarians who have been at this longer than I have,
(33:48):
especially in supporting the different grade levels.
Maybe that I'm new to,
we have to be ready to teach at any grade level and,
and be good at it and be convincing.
And that's why,
you know,
I've learned to rely so heavily on the people I interview and the people who,
who I follow on social media.
Thank you,
Amy.
I so appreciate your time today.
I'm looking forward to sharing a number of resources about where you can follow Amy,
(34:12):
how you can listen to her podcast and then also uh the document she's going to share regarding how to get started with podcasting if you're interested.
Uh I'll see you all or hear you all next week for another voices of literacy conversation.
Until then.
Thanks so much,
Amy.
I look forward to seeing you on Twitter.
Thanks so much.
I appreciate it.
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