August 20, 2024 • 64 mins
A cross-posted conversation from Nico Wolf’s podcast Living Liminal, where Nico and Melissa chat about the intersection between ritual textile play, creative practice, and our Spirit work.
They speak to the magic of hands, lost contexts of craft, and the necessity of the revival of recognizing the ways the Unseen world can inform the the gift of creative vision.
They bring in threads from their upcoming collaboration Distaff Ways: A Threefold Alchemical Healing, Seership Training & Ritual Fiber Arts Exploration w/ the Wisdom of the Spinners & Weavers
This collaborative offering starts online at the end of August and culminates with a 6 day in person artist in residency in Santa Fe, NM. This work is open to all levels of experience and genders.
Learn more about Distaff Ways here: https://www.schoolofliminalarts.com/distaff-ways
and Nico Wolf
Book a 1:1 Creative Revival Session with Melissa
Stay Connected —
- Follow Melissa’s Instagram for hot art memes
- Join Melissa’s weeklyish newsletter for creative musings and studio news
Big thanks to Ben Coleman for composing our theme music, and Gavin Bernard for vocals
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:46):
Hey gang, welcome back to the show. What's going on?
So happy to be here with you in the radio portal.
So last episode with the dazzling being Stephanie Zolotel,
I did this funny thing where I included the grounding meditation visualization
(01:13):
situation that I usually do
for my guests just to like get us in the mood to talk into a microphone.
But I happened to include it in the episode and I got a lot of feedback from
the people that they were into that.
And I didn't know. I wasn't sure if it was going to be corny or if it'd be a hit.
So I want to offer a little like tiny, tiny tidbit version of that.
(01:41):
Just like keep trying it out and see what happens. But as a way to like attention jockey,
like DJ your attention as you're listening to this and as we're like getting
into the vibe and the mood together. other.
So whatever you're doing, I love to listen to podcasts and wash dishes.
(02:02):
Maybe you're washing dishes. Maybe you are doing your laundry. Maybe you are driving.
But whatever you are doing, as you're listening to these exact words that are
piping into your ear holes this very second,
I invite you to also simultaneously put your attention on what your hands are doing.
(02:27):
Right so what is the actual choreography what is the actual like gesturing,
what's the shape your hands are making in space.
And if just the very act of like slowing your attention down to like then put
(02:52):
your awareness on your body immediately makes your brain so annoyed and you're
like, oh, can you just freaking get on with the episode?
We're just going to do it for like 20 more seconds. You can definitely skip ahead,
or you can just be a little bit
slowed down with me in the singular act of sensing your hands in space.
(03:21):
And you can notice what they are touching.
What is the texture? what is
the sensation of
whatever surface they're
up against what is the
(03:42):
kind of muscular efforting that is happening or not happening like are some
parts of the hands really active and gripping loosening running, squeezing,
reaching for something.
(04:12):
And in this last little moment here, just
the tiniest of invitations to sprinkle Sprinkle a little bit of reverence and
dare I say gratitude out of your mind,
(04:32):
out of your heart, down the arms towards the hands.
You're just like pouring your attention of like, hey, thanks, hands.
You're pretty great.
(04:54):
And it's almost like this sort of waterfall fountain of appreciation pouring
out of the heart space, out of the mind, cascading down the arms into the hands,
no matter what they're doing.
They can still be moving, they could be still.
(05:18):
Just to give us the like teeny tiniest what this has maybe been like a minute and a half,
of space in the day to actually see acknowledge and thank the hands for all
they are able to do for us all day long.
(05:44):
Hmm okay thanks
gang thanks for going on the little hand dance journey
with me so i'm i'm
particularly thrilled to allow the
hands to really guide the episode today because Because so much of this conversation
(06:05):
is really like grounded by or like situated in the alchemical powers of the hands.
And like an extension of this idea, I talk about a lot of like creative practice.
(06:26):
Moving our hands creatively and in an inspired way is such a gateway for a lot
of healing, a lot of healing, my God, a lot of healing, right?
And so this notion that like our minds can only get us so far and that, yes,
(06:47):
we love to get into the body, but specifically when we like think about the
power of our hands to help massage and like move really dense inner emotional
material out of our beings and into something generative,
into something that exists outside of us,
(07:09):
whether that's an art practice, whether that's a beautiful meal,
a nourishing meal that you've cooked, even if that's literally just like doing
the chores, that there's a way that we can use the hands as kind of this portal
and gateway to like send...
Dense inner material out of us and
also potentially as ways to like receive information like
(07:32):
these little 10 digit antennas right
so today this episode that I'm bringing
to you this conversation with Nico we've heard we've heard of the lore and the
legend that is Nico she's been on this podcast before just a mere couple episodes
ago but so this is a dual conversation that she has put out both on her podcast,
(07:57):
Living Liminal, and shows up here as well, where we get to discuss and dig into
the content of an upcoming retreat and workshop that we have called DeStaff
Ways. You'll hear more about that later.
But for now, I just want to give some context to, yeah,
(08:19):
the world that we're really sifting through, which is all about the alchemical
magic of working with cloth, working with thread,
working with the legends and mythology of the ancestral spinners and weavers,
both in our direct bloodline and lineage and also in a bigger like pan-religious
(08:45):
context of these archetypal goddesses who work with cloth and thread.
Okay, it's cute. It's magical. We go all over the place. Let's get into it.
I have just been thinking so much about this word wobble. I can't stop thinking
there's just like a neon cursive illuminated glow around the word wobble as like.
(09:16):
You know, there's the sort of knee-jerk reaction to like, oh, no, I'm feeling wobbly.
Like the ground is, I'm like Bambi on the ice.
And to like actually like really slow down to sense the actual sensation of wobble.
(09:39):
I was thinking about like the fool and the banana peel.
Like what dance yeah or
like the banana peel out of control losing footing and
just it's like wow what if we could just reframe the
banana peel moment as like dancing uh-huh
or skating into some other timeline or
(10:00):
possibility and yeah it it takes
you off that like personal trajectory of like
ambition and personal drive and like
leaves you with this kind of broader landscape
of where you fit in
the web of things right because it's usually
the universe that comes to kind of knock you off your footing knock you into
(10:22):
wobble mode yeah and therefore it's this kind of like kind invitation kinder
invitation than we often think it is oh yeah you've been writing recently about
that like what if the universe is just like yeah just loves you so much.
And can you give into that kind of vulnerability of the universe kind of moving
(10:42):
you off your thought of planned out trajectory and into this other landscape? Yeah.
To hear you say knocks you off of the like ambition and personal, like striving mode.
I'm like, I'm immediately like, oh my God, I had to kind of like.
This like inner stomach lurch it's
(11:05):
like we're so allergic to the like well if i'm not being ambitious then what
am i doing what's what's the point if i'm not striving towards these goals and
um like big dreams big visions big achievements that are legible then
my God, am I just like, otherwise I'm just going to fall into the abyss of mediocrity
(11:31):
and a fate worse than death.
Yeah. I wonder about that. Where ambition comes from,
is that from the part of us that's more
like ego and wants a story to identify with and
kind of have these you know gold stars of look what
I did in my life kind of moments as opposed
(11:53):
to I've been thinking a lot about that like the
difference between devotion and ambition and so
like if devotion comes from a
different place maybe from the soul and the soul that's
like in the interconnected universe then it's
not just for you but it's for the broader beauty
of all the things right yo oh
(12:15):
that's such a beautiful distinction yeah
and seems like it could offer some clarity because I
do there is this um
something that comes up in um like the the one on one sessions I've been doing
lately about creative practice is like it just we immediately get into the grief
(12:35):
territory when we talk about like yeah I feel this I feel this this vision this
creative vision inside of me and it wants to be birthed.
I'm just pregnant and ripe and just pushing towards desire, but there's these
things in the way that sort of like, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, like get it all tense and contorted.
(12:57):
It's like, wow, we're just sort of immediately in the grief zone there.
And I find that there can be
both in myself and I can witness it in others that
there's this like conflating this
inner conflation of like
the yes the
(13:19):
like you have been made pregnant by the universe with desire and and like dreams
that have this devotional quality but then like when do those get kind of like
it's like all i can do is sort of move my body in these like constricted ways.
When does that get twisted and wrangled into the ego thing that you're talking about of like,
(13:46):
this has to be legible. This has to, this has to like, this better be good.
If I'm going to try to let this thing out, this better, this can't be a waste of time.
This can't be, um, yeah. Why even bother if it's, if I can't see the end in
sight and can verify that the end is going to be good. Right.
(14:10):
Yeah. And I wonder again, if that's kind of like the.
The story of like belonging in the world of the ego and do i kind of fit in
with this do i have value with this like all those are very much like ego questions
in the context of what our egos are.
It's almost like you know i keep thinking about these
(14:32):
fabric things right so it's like the fabric of humanity
very much kind of held together
by these ego promises or these like
you know conceptual linear let's
this is this is the structure we're working with right and
when you're an artist it's like asking you
to get connected into like a very different
(14:55):
fabric of reality and then with
those like creative impulses those are
actually disruptors and inherently have
the quality of non-belonging to
the current structures that are right
so it's like this crazy it's like
(15:16):
to be an artist and to give in to the
devotional act of the beauty that
wants to come through and is connected to the all that is there is
like an inherent moment of leaving behind
something and that's fucking scary it's
it's the going out into the desert of the unknown and
you know living in the
(15:38):
edge land outside of society in a way so of
course and of course that's sad of course that's grief because the ways we've
been connected are yeah are in in those like Like the ego belonging linear mind
post-capitalist weirdness that we're all trying to like.
(15:59):
Yeah, still hold on to somehow.
A freaking men up and down all the way. Hell yes. Take me to church.
Yeah. We're like, it's the insane risk, the insane boldness to like depart consensus reality. Yeah.
(16:22):
And that everything about the ways that dominant culture has like acculturated us. Mm-hmm.
Has has said that that is nothing
but certain death like leaving consensus reality is
nothing but certain death yeah and it's
i just feel like we're at this moment of finding our own context right like
(16:48):
we you know even i was telling you how i saw the nokekoi tribe last night from
brazil the amazonian rainforest people and it just you know they came out in full beautiful rainbow
beaded, like chest pieces and these insane, like beautiful tuk-tuk feather headdresses
and their faces were all painted.
(17:10):
And, you know, I mean, just like full expression of artistic color and form
and all of this like wild, yeah, this wildness that came from spirit.
It was spirit informed, right?
And yet like in their culture, that's like,
oh yeah, some people get get to wear the feathers because spirit
(17:30):
touches them in that way and these are the
colors that we all see when we're
taking the medicines and you know there's just like a context for their spiritual
practice and then an aesthetic form that they all can kind of like get behind
and express themselves in and where we are in this like you know modern whitewashed.
(17:57):
Western culture um non-indigenous culture
i should just say in general it's like we're separated
out from all of those threads of context and that movement of that creative
expression coming from the land coming from the stories of the people coming
from direct revelation from spirit and being held and honored because you're
(18:21):
part of the people who gets it you And so here we are kind of like these,
yeah, it's almost like our new culture is like the culture of the cracks,
the culture of the like, like the Bayo Komolafe calls it like the refugee or
like the orphans of like,
(18:41):
you know, like we're finding these new expressions that don't really have context yet.
And we're finding them as we go.
Yeah. Yeah. And what a time to find safety, to reimagine safety.
(19:03):
We have to completely obliterate the ways that we've learned what will create nervous system safety.
And mostly those have just been coping strategies and defense mechanisms to
approximate a sense of safety. But like.
Even that feels like such a creative project. Okay, like, let's clean the slate. Yeah.
(19:26):
How we, like, learned what safety was and learned how to, like,
grasp towards some sad, like, generic dollar bin version of safety.
It wasn't even really safety.
Like, people pleasing gives you that hit of safety. Right. Like,
bargain basement safety, right?
Totally. so like we get to
(19:48):
that even that feels like such a creative practice of
like yeah okay how do i that's going to be different from how nico like like
follows the scent in the dark of what will actually bring nervous system support
and nervous system unwinding and unfurling yeah so be like.
(20:09):
Great i am safe enough by like
slurping on my own internal resources and my
own internal visions for what safety could
be so that now i can like
don my version of the feathers given to
me by spirit to be my
full freak ass self yeah and it's
(20:32):
like simply not a problem it's simply not
a problem because it's unconditional right
or my safety is not based on the conditions
of the environment around me right and
yet it is still this like human thing
to need shelter and food and clothing and
(20:53):
when you're in a capitalist system you
know it's like there's there's still this like i
don't know i feel like my my dad's generation still really
believes in like the government's going to take care of us and oh
for sure 100 you know that way is over yeah that way is so over i mean you know
(21:14):
like when we were in europe we really did feel like oh yeah actually we could
still survive because the baguettes are subsidized and you know health healthcare getting a, my.
We took our daughter to the dentist. It was like 35 euros.
Like, you know, it's just, you can still subsidized. I'm living for that. I know. Right.
(21:37):
You know, like there are still governments in the world that like know how to
actually take care of the basic needs of their people.
But I just, yeah, I don't, I don't want to get too political,
but it's, it's definitely like, yeah, how do you, how do you know you're still
going to eat and have a roof over your head and be part of a,
of society and, and just survive, you know, like those like basic things.
(22:02):
Things and gosh i don't know if i need to go into
this tangent too but just like even just knowing how to
like grow my own food that was such a big part of
nervous system safety for me of yeah and just kind of going back to these simpler
ways of life that are still inherent to a lot of the indigenous communities
(22:23):
of this world you know it's you don't need much you need You need people,
you need food, you need shelter.
And then there's all of the support from the unseen world.
And that's the part that I think in this culture is like there's an opportunity
there, like connecting to the unseen and just feeling that support.
(22:47):
I mean at this point i used to be in my like
content and even with like you know socially in
the different circles that i would run run in i just
felt like i had to really sanitize like
my god talk and like my like spirit
talk yeah right to like not
be too freaking unpalatable with like
(23:11):
getting all god on them yeah yeah and or like even just the like it's it's like
amuses me so much like chuckling to myself of like you know the ways that we're
like oh you know like the universe because it's like that's somehow.
(23:33):
Let me be more specific because it's actually not about words or language but
it's like the impulse to be like, let me say the more safe and cuddly,
approachable way of talking about the unseen world that doesn't trigger people.
It doesn't get people up in there like, oh God, here we go.
(23:54):
Some Jesus talk or whatever.
Plenty of us have been harmed by the cult of religion and in this culture in the West.
So I understand it, but I guess all of that is to say of like,
I am like, I increasingly in the last few years, I'm just like,
I feel myself coming out of like closet after closet after closet of spiritual practice.
(24:18):
Totally. Right. Of like,
you know in times of yeah this
is I'll just leave it at that of like oh like I don't want to be like I don't
want to come off as too like like LA white girl like woo town USA uh-huh I don't
want to like be too churchy and I don't want to be like all those feelings yeah yeah back away,
(24:44):
and just being able to be like very real with the fact that I'm like yes my
days are fully My days are fully led by spirit.
My days are fully led by my like rogue band of guides.
And I have not always felt permission to be so like spirit forward. Mm hmm.
(25:06):
Yeah. But I feel like more and more I'm like, oh, yeah, it's going to get increasingly
difficult out here. Yeah.
Or unless we're just like really centering our our unseen support.
Yeah. Yeah. And playing, playing on that playground.
Ground i'm just
(25:28):
getting this like the revolution will not be televised because it's happening
in the unseen world like it's like wow yeah yeah yeah you know you're not gonna
see it you're literally not gonna see it yeah the rebellion is like in that
exact thing in some ways right ooh.
(25:50):
Okay bumper sticker okay bumper sticker the rebellion is in the unseen yeah
the rebellion the revolution will not be televised because it's in your fucking aura.
That's right yeah i had such a
strong sense of that after leaving that gathering last night
i like walked out and i i you know wanted to like verbally pray and like give
(26:14):
thanks to the land and this like incredible moon that had like this rainbow
kind of circle around it and the stars were out it was just like incredible
and all I could feel was that like I became the prayer,
like it didn't even have to take any form or like have any word to it but it
was there was something in just like connecting those threads back into that type of,
(26:42):
yeah that that level of just
knowing in the body in the spirit that you are
connected and yeah i actually it
was funny when we were walking away to go get in our car
bring the kids home to bed i could feel these like threads in my back actually
like all along my spine and yo wow i I just got linked into just some other
(27:06):
under layer of interconnectedness and just like those things.
Like there's like a visceral repair that happens when you connect in, in those ways. Yeah.
Which brings. Yeah.
Go. No, no, go, go, go.
Oh, I just, wow. Like the, the invisible threads.
(27:31):
Yeah. Of like, space.
Of the actual like density of air and space that there is like,
the image that's coming to mind is this okra that i tried to eat last night
that was past its prime it was like very woody and fibrous uh-huh and like that in the unseen,
(27:59):
like like can we imagine can we put on our like five-year-old imagination brain
and like experience space just walking around reality as like as dense and fibrous,
that we're just like fully not paying attention to because we haven't yet like
(28:22):
maybe downloaded that aspect that that part of our sensing technology you know
but it's like it's It's coming online.
Yeah. There are these like fibers and it's like high speed internet, baby.
Just in the fibrous space.
Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
(28:43):
Yeah. I mean, I'm so, I really want to, I keep meaning it's on my list of things
to do is to study string theory and like quantum physics and how like everything comes down to that.
Like these energy threads that everything is made of and um.
(29:03):
Yeah. I mean, you can, you can tune into that, which is like part of our work that we do, right?
With the Distaff Ways. And you were talking to me about this like dance practice
that you were really feeling that.
And I don't know, do you want to share a little bit about that or?
Yeah yeah yeah it's actually making me think of something that happened this
morning when i was out on this playground the playground is connected to like
(29:27):
a open community soccer field,
and my body was just like take your shoes off walk on
that grass but you're the earth right now right
now um and so i did and i
remembered i'm gonna tell this little anecdote
from this morning and connected to the fibrous stringy
dance practice um but i
was recently reading um sophie strands um the flowering wand yeah she's awesome
(29:56):
she's amazing she's so brilliant um and there's this part about like i'm not
gonna get the math right but there's this part about like Like the actual,
like how many miles deep the like mycelial network goes per like square inch of earth.
(30:17):
Wow. Uh-huh. And that she like did the math to be like every footfall,
like the average size of a foot, every footfall on the earth actually like immediately
puts you in contact with X number of miles of mycelial threads,
(30:39):
mycelial information, which is like eons old. Uh-huh. Wow.
And so you're like, like, I'm just still trying to like wrap my mind around
like how much ancestral information is in my DNA and is in my blood and in my tissues, right?
How old that spiraling information is.
(31:01):
And then she goes in and is like, you could just step on the ground.
And every footfall is like instant, like touching archive.
Archive yeah this like tome of intelligence oh yeah the nervous system of the earth in a way,
(31:22):
Unreal. The like library of Congress on like psychedelic.
Yeah. So I was thinking about,
I was remembering that this morning and I was like just playing with this idea
of like slowly walking in the grass and being like somewhere on this field is
(31:44):
like the next piece of information I need to know about this,
like a particular topic in my personal life.
And it was like the phrase that came to mind was like um pokemon like you gotta catch them all,
there's like there's like this pokemon or this
(32:04):
like easter egg out in the field somewhere and
my feet are like these heat seeking like intuitive listening for where that
that one One planting of thy soul of the foot will kind of unleash and osmosis activate,
(32:24):
like bring that piece of information up into me through the like spongy soles
of my feet. I love you. Oh, my God.
Amazing. Yes. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I'm with you. I'm with you. Yep.
Unseen technologies. Here we go.
Um so yeah that that happens morning
(32:45):
um just an average morning for just a regular degular day of the week.
But i feel like you know
my movement practice is not
far from that sort of same um
like framework teamwork that is
(33:09):
like when i'm you
know have my like solo movement practice which is
i guess in layman's terms would just be like i set a
timer for like 20 ish minutes and i agree to not stop moving my body and i'm
just moving intuitively right but there will be sometimes like sometimes Sometimes
(33:31):
I'm really dialed into the sensory experience of like my body moving,
like my bones and muscles doing their thing.
But then sometimes it's like I'm so much more sensorily dialed in to the feeling of space.
And I can like feel these like currents almost. Almost. Mm-hmm.
(34:02):
It's like we almost need a different word than feel because it's so subtle right it's so um,
like i i don't actually feel like i've got some secret like,
claire it's not a it's not like a body claire necessarily maybe it is i don't
know i guess i'm just trying to like de-pedestalize this like freaky practice
(34:26):
because i think it is it's accessible it's accessible yeah but but mostly just
because i've slowed down enough,
times to listen to it yeah that it's like i can just feel myself kind of swimming
and weaving with my hands wrists fingers arms like weaving these cords or weaving in and out of,
(34:50):
these strands of the density of space and yeah that's it that's just that.
Yeah yeah i i mean i think that that's like for some reason it's bringing me
to like a tai chi practice or a qigong practice like one of the things that
(35:14):
my dear friend jay marola when she She has us gather.
She has us sometimes just like work with the energy, the space between the hands.
And there's something that if you've been in practice and you've like deepened
in that way, you can really start to not just feel the kind of ball of energy,
(35:34):
but there is this like the teasing apart of energy,
like the like, yeah, the fine threads that those
balls of energy are made of if you've ever yeah if you've ever had that practice
of just feeling what comes through the hands and I mean I remember that's it's
(35:54):
just such a innate practice which is also why I love like the the distaff work and the fibers work um.
I mean, I remember being a young kid and my mom going through health stuff and
placing my hands. She actually had like an eye surgery.
And I remember like placing my hands over her eyes and first just feeling like
(36:18):
energy coming through like this warmth and like just sending love through the
palms. And it was, you know, just this simple thing.
And then suddenly, like after being there for a while, I could feel these almost
like electric impulses on the tips of my fingers.
And my hands just started moving in this way where I could feel like the threads
of those energies articulating on each tip of my finger.
(36:42):
And I could actually feel that I was helping to kind of weave back the energetic
countenance of her eyes in that moment.
And yeah, and I just think that there's
like this thing that that's definitely there and
can happen and it's like a very like pan-cultural knowing
thing like lay the laying of the hands like it's such a accessible and like
(37:07):
known thing in all kind of mystical traditions and even in like even patriot
right like even in the church they do the laying of the hands thing they do
they do indeed yeah and so there's something that's you know i mean.
Like it's so i don't know i'm just like staring at my hands right now and just
being like yeah There's so much that can be created and worked with and pulled
(37:32):
from the threads of void and into form through the hands.
That's why I feel like healing work and artwork and just creative process,
there's that commonality of things coming through the hands is such an important
(37:52):
and beautiful field of study to get into.
To right like we have these like huge like this huge sensorium of our bodies
but like how much delicate and like known information comes in and out of the hands yeah um.
Wow. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
(38:15):
And even just like yoga mudras, like how each, I mean, yeah,
so like in astrology, each finger has its own associated planet.
Like in Eastern medicine, each tip of the finger has like a associated organ system.
System um in like yoga there
(38:36):
are all these like different ways that you can hold your fingers
together that create a different energetic kind of
circuit in the body right so i
mean there's definitely something to that that's just human
and available to us and then
when you bring the awareness to the threads and
then like further that with the fiber
(38:59):
arts work where you're just like bringing the knowledge
of the hands that what wants to come through the hands like into form
in that way i'd love to hear you talk about your process
with the fiber arts and like where you feel like your hands and your connection
to spirit yeah like what's what's what are the pathways there for you oh what
(39:22):
a delightful question yeah it has me thinking of two things One.
The thing that I was thinking about hearing
you speak just a moment ago is a dance mentor of mine who was recently saying
this super simple but kind of jaw-dropping idea of we are led through our days by our hands.
(39:53):
All day long like the dance of our day
is is is led by our
hands our hands reaching for something opening something grabbing
something pushing up off a ledge
to you know or like off off a surface to stand up
opening doors opening doors it's
like all all of our actions are really like our hands are kind of the like aquarium
(40:17):
like front of the ship yeah like know the way before we do they get to the thing
before the rest of our body does or before our head does wow like object brain does.
And the other thing I'm thinking about is this workshop I recently led earlier
(40:39):
this week called Scrap the Plan that's really about embracing the unknown,
embracing mystery and uncertainty through creative practice and through ritual
fiber work and textile work.
And we did this kind of opening meditation where I,
(40:59):
it was so simple and it was like very off the cuff where the image came to mind
to like drop the thinking mind down into the heart and to sense this like kind of effusive,
erupting, kind of percolating energy.
And it fountains out, out of the heart, down the arms and sort of puddles and
(41:20):
pools in the palms of the hands.
Mm-hmm and then we just rested our attention and our hands.
Or you know a cup just a couple of simple breaths and gave a little reverence
gave a little honoring to our hands and then everybody was like holy shit my
(41:43):
hands yeah my freaking hands.
I never think about my hands.
And that one sort of simple exercise became this refrain that we all kept coming
back to throughout the couple hour workshop. Wow.
(42:06):
That like the invitation is, is when your logic brain kind of sputters or stalls
out or doesn't know what's next and kind of goes into like control panic. Uh-huh.
The hands always know what to do next.
Oh, I love that. It sounds so rich and beautiful. Yeah.
(42:31):
Yeah. And so how does that play out? Like for people who are doing the work
with you, if they're having a brain sputter moment, what does it look like to
let the hands be led or lead?
Yeah one thing is like um that
it reminds me of like watching a polaroid develop
(42:53):
where we actually have to
like turn on the sense
or sensory capacity of the hands the like tactile animal intelligence in the
hands but it like takes a minute like the polaroid has the Polaroid of sensation
has to take a couple minutes to develop because mostly the information is there all the time.
(43:19):
The access to insane amounts of sensory information in the hands is staggering,
but the brain has to sort of siphon it off or dial way down so that we can just
do the kind of rote mechanics of our day.
(43:39):
Um so we we have like in in
practice we'll have like these different like touch different
kinds of touch exercises that on
the surface i mean it's so it's so simple even our dear listeners right now
can doing can do it like your hands are probably touching something i love to
(44:00):
wash dishes while i listen to podcasts and so you can like slog your way through
doing the damn dish pile.
Or you can like.
Just start to like polaroid development
slow down style like slowly gather
(44:20):
more and more sensory information touch
information about like the particular cascade of
the water the particular slipperiness of the
soap you are using the particular like
gunk build-up grainy texture
of the lasagna i don't know
(44:41):
right and we
don't do it this is you're giving just a perfect example
of why we don't do that mostly yeah yeah
yeah we have so many stories associated with
the tasks that our hands are up
to oh yeah most of the time we're like lasagna
gunk freaking get out
(45:02):
of my life oh my god gross that we
miss the like the granular the
practice of like getting more
literate getting more sensitive to what
these bad boys yeah what these bad boys really can do it's like a really sophisticated
(45:26):
piece of technology and we're like whatever putting gloves on them yeah wow
the world is so icky I just latex gloves.
Touch any of this the world is too much yeah yeah wow ah like just like,
(45:48):
I don't know just like the level of spaciousness in
that hearing you talk about that just gives me this this
deep breath of yeah fresh air
of wow just the whole world that's
made in the pile of dirty dishes and the
opportunity to feel god and lasagna
gunk and also
(46:12):
wow you heard it here first god lives in the lasagna
gunk what are you doing throw away
your yellow rubber dish gloves people right didn't
you know um i'm just
i mean but i'm also thinking of like maybe a
little bit more flesh like in my my experience
(46:33):
like i can feel the pleasure more in gardening in you know last weekend we harvested
our carrots and just like the loosening of the soil and the pulling up of this
like beautiful root and like the brushing off and just that that visceral experience of um.
Hand connected to soil and food as part of, you know, just the,
(46:58):
the whole living ecosystem.
And, and then also the other thing this
brings up for me is the trance state that we can get into when doing repetitive
motions with the hands and how like so much of that in modernity has been like
taken over by the scrolling of the finger on the iPhone or the typing of the keys or,
(47:21):
you know, There are these repetitive motion things that our hands are still being asked to do,
but where is the stitch work? Where is the beading?
Where is the sorting of the seed from the pods to then plant the corn?
Whatever it is. there's the beans i should say um
there's there's like this it's like
it's like where is the importance of our
(47:44):
hands work in like the fuller context of our survival our connection to god
like all of those things like there it just feels almost like we've gotten to
a place of of disconnection from that as opposed to you know like when i was again with the,
nokekoi people, I mean, they're like that beadwork, the like hand loomed beads,
(48:08):
that takes a long, long time.
And like, what are you thinking about when you're doing that?
You know, what are you open to like that?
Yeah, the necessity of trance state and like having the hands be busy doing
repetitive motion as like a way to connect with the divine.
(48:31):
Hell yes. I love that you're saying like, what does that open you to?
That it's almost like you keep the hands busy in this way that I would argue,
or at least I would say that it feels very much about,
very much inside of my own practice that like sewing is a devotional act.
(48:52):
Sewing is like, and what I feel devoted to
in the sewing practice and sewing
project like can shift and change but
it's like so often it's
like it's in devotion to to inspiration
like capital i inspiration that feels like for me just like the manna like the
(49:14):
reason for living is to like my god have the opportunity to like stick your
straw in that sauce of like i'm inspired by something and And I can like,
just like flow on that current.
Like what an unspeakably sexy, delicious gift.
(49:37):
And it like, when I'm in the hand sewing stitch practice, I'm like,
thank God I get to feel this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. Because, man, the days that I feel bereft of inspiration or like
long periods of time when I just am like, I just got nothing.
(49:58):
The field is so fallow. I mean, even that is not a great example because a fallow
field is very important.
Yeah, it's important. And it's very it's still an active.
There's some active processes happening in the field.
Okay, gang, I am briefly interrupting this episode to let you know that the
doors are closing to the Distaff Ways Retreat this Friday.
(50:22):
So if you are listening to this conversation and you're like,
wow, yes, okay, inspiration is flowing,
cauldrons are getting stirred, yes, please, more, more, more,
I invite you to pop into the show notes and take a look at the details for the Distaff Ways workshop.
Y'all, it's just going to be such a beautiful synthesis of like flow state creative
(50:48):
practice and like deep alchemical spirit work, right?
So if you already have a creative practice, if you already are acculturated
to working with your hands and finding that it really is this gateway to the mystery,
the what else-ness, the big unseen realm, And you're like, I love that. That is my happy place.
(51:13):
Then you're really going to find your people inside this part workshop and part
retreat, in-person retreat later this year.
We'd love to have you. There are scholarships available. There are payment plans and...
Really, I just think it's going to be such a spectacular place to find more people like yourself.
(51:36):
So if that feels appealing, please
check it out. And yeah, hope to see you there. Okay, back to the show.
Yeah, I'm just thinking about, you know, the people of yesteryear sitting on their spinning wheel.
And just like even just that sound you
(51:58):
know i'm obsessed with the sound of the spinning wheel right
and it's
you know there's the shot the shaman's drum there's
the you know the techno music that
you trance out to whatever that like repetitive sound is also
like part of our wiring of our
(52:19):
psyche to get our minds into that kind of theta
state where we are open to the dream where we are open to
the inspiration and to the divine and you know
the sewing machine itself also has that oh yeah
just that the sounds alone
and then and then the busying of the hands and so yeah so being able to like
(52:41):
slow down enough to work with all of those tools in a way that we recognize
that process that's happening and just like put full intention behind being
open to what, what comes through in those moments.
That's, yeah. It makes me think about what you were talking about earlier with
like, we, you know, we could say scrolling on Instagram, for example,
(53:05):
scrolling on TikTok, it has that same kind of repetitiveness, right?
But there's like, it's so slit.
Swiping up on your phone as a repetitive gesture, there's
actually no friction there's no
like there's no lasagna chunks there's
no hopefully not you know
(53:27):
it I will say that it does occasionally dawn
on me to like as I'm in scroll the particular trance of scroll mode like to
just like feel the shape of my phone feel the texture of my case phone case
that like it is that is a trippy little um switch that can happen,
(53:51):
doesn't mean I have to like throw the phone down and get out of scroll mode
but it's just like a uh-huh I still got hands here they are still got hands
yeah there's there's an action happening but it makes me think about how like
you know in contrast of what we're describing of like.
Textile work the um the particular
(54:13):
trance brought on by ritual fiber
work they're like there's so much grain there's so much texture there's so much
like kind of gritty friction and play with tension yeah and play with tension
it's just like a playground of like,
(54:37):
that's a touch playground yeah and
even like the act of the piercing of the needle through fabric is such a i mean
just that alone is a whole world uh-huh and then accidentally piercing your
freaking fingers yeah like oh my god i'm alive okay
(54:58):
you forgot yeah yeah yeah oh yeah there's so much so um i feel like we might
wrap soon yeah and i'm just feeling like.
If you were to talk about kind of the the spirit of this death ways and And
(55:23):
why that feels like right medicine for right now and what you would hope to
kind of bring through in that container when we gather.
What would that be? Yeah, I'm so excited for Distock Ways.
I'm so excited for a container where I get to both co-create with you,
(55:48):
but co-create with the people who feel called to show up to this kind of work of tapping into,
it's like putting on the goggles, the night vision goggles to see what is in
the dark, to see the unseen, but the night vision goggles are your hands. Yeah.
(56:10):
Right. Yeah. You're like, like, literally, it's like the feeling of like,
I don't actually ever do this, really.
But the sort of cartoon image of like, feeling around in the dark for the light
switch for the lamp, and you're like, touch, touch, touch, touch,
touching the wall, touching the thing and the thing.
And I'm so just like, I'm like preemptively agog.
(56:39):
I'm preemptively like mouth wide open about the kind of learning and unknowing
that will happen in that space of.
You know, like you and I, we can just like, we love these topics.
We could just like jazz and, you know, like carry on and get all like excited together.
(57:00):
But like to ask people to come and sit in circle together, sit in ceremony together
and be in these alchemical practices where we trust.
We take off the thinking brain, take off the logic brain that we've been given
by the patriarchy, by capitalism, by all the blah, blah, blahs.
(57:22):
We can set that down over here and we can start to move in these uncertain ways,
like hands out in front of us, feeling through the currents of the new emergent world.
Right micro macro we're like feeling through the project the like the the fiber
(57:47):
arts the textile project in front of us but the macro is like we're feeling
our way into what this new.
Emergent like post collapse of the old world yeah and i just can't think of
a better way to spend one's time is how I personally feel about it.
(58:10):
I can't wait to be up in that space because I'm like, we need new approaches
and we need to be able to, we need different strategies for reading,
the blueprint of the technologies that we already have in our bodies, in our hands,
(58:33):
and our unseen capacities.
And I just like that. It's just so exquisite to be up in the teachings of cloth,
the teachings of the weavings and the teachings of thread and the needle.
I just like, I'm so humbled by what they teach me in my practice all the time.
(59:02):
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. What about you?
What words come to you in this moment?
Yeah, just the tears in the fabric of realities and how...
We can be led by the knowing of our hands to mend those divides,
(59:26):
to find new ways, new pathways,
and do it through making beauty, right?
And it's like, the other thing that I'm really excited about this work is that,
you know, I've been leading retreats for over a decade now,
and it's like they kind of happen in a
(59:47):
bubble sometimes right so we get together and we
do all of our inner work and our
transformational personal work and um
are connected with spirit and with each other and
have these cathartic moments but then we like go back to our desk jobs or whatever
taking care of the kids like all of the kind of like life outside of the retreat
(01:00:08):
and i keep I keep thinking about how art is this really beautiful touchstone
and kind of seed for the rest of culture.
And so through our research, through our experiential understanding of what
it is to shift the very fabric of reality through body and spirit,
(01:00:31):
that we are then creating these kinds of sigils or like forms,
these magical forms that then we can take to the gallery that we're all going
to be showing our creative projects at and hope that it extends,
(01:00:53):
it ripples out from beyond our small cohort that's been working together.
And then that feeds the community and then they become part of that prayer that
then moves out into their life and whoever they touch and come into contact with.
And so it feels like the art piece of it is also really exciting to me to like
create actual form from the unseen as, as informed from the unseen and how that, yeah,
(01:01:18):
just that piece alone to me is just like everything. Yeah.
Yeah. And to also just like, yeah.
And also just to like know that we have this inherent ability to move healing
and beauty through the hands.
And so like a big part of it too, is teaching people like these healing practices
that are really so natural to when we just like drop in and listen and get out
(01:01:43):
of the way of like what wants to flow through and how it flows through yeah so.
Um yeah and and the the best part
is working with you because i i just feel like i don't
know i've been wanting to for such a long time and i just feel like we're um
we're just going to make cool worlds together as we always do when we chat and
(01:02:07):
um to to bring people into that space and to just like i can just see us sitting
in the corner having our minds blown every time somebody says
something cool or like does something amazing and just
like being so thrilled by holding
the container of all the genius that's going to flow through the
people who show up so yeah yeah I really feel like a very powerful magnet happening
(01:02:32):
with this work that like the people that feel tapped to be like wait what oh
okay like seership training and with sewing
and weaving. Okay.
Like the people who are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me like,
let me take a whiff of this. Yeah.
(01:02:53):
I'm like, I can't, I can't wait to meet. I just, I'm like, that's,
that's, this is so much. Yeah.
There's so much excitement and so much magnetism for me around the kind of like, yeah.
But with the synergy of that. Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes. Cool. well so um
i think we'll pop off for now but thank you so much for this time and this chat
(01:03:18):
and all the beautiful explorations and thank you all for listening um and yeah
well hopefully we'll see you soon amazing love you so big love you too.
Music.
Music.
(00:46):
Hey gang, welcome back to the show. What's going on?
So happy to be here with you in the radio portal.
So last episode with the dazzling being Stephanie Zolotel,
I did this funny thing where I included the grounding meditation visualization
(01:13):
situation that I usually do
for my guests just to like get us in the mood to talk into a microphone.
But I happened to include it in the episode and I got a lot of feedback from
the people that they were into that.
And I didn't know. I wasn't sure if it was going to be corny or if it'd be a hit.
So I want to offer a little like tiny, tiny tidbit version of that.
(01:41):
Just like keep trying it out and see what happens. But as a way to like attention jockey,
like DJ your attention as you're listening to this and as we're like getting
into the vibe and the mood together. other.
So whatever you're doing, I love to listen to podcasts and wash dishes.
(02:02):
Maybe you're washing dishes. Maybe you are doing your laundry. Maybe you are driving.
But whatever you are doing, as you're listening to these exact words that are
piping into your ear holes this very second,
I invite you to also simultaneously put your attention on what your hands are doing.
(02:27):
Right so what is the actual choreography what is the actual like gesturing,
what's the shape your hands are making in space.
And if just the very act of like slowing your attention down to like then put
(02:52):
your awareness on your body immediately makes your brain so annoyed and you're
like, oh, can you just freaking get on with the episode?
We're just going to do it for like 20 more seconds. You can definitely skip ahead,
or you can just be a little bit
slowed down with me in the singular act of sensing your hands in space.
(03:21):
And you can notice what they are touching.
What is the texture? what is
the sensation of
whatever surface they're
up against what is the
(03:42):
kind of muscular efforting that is happening or not happening like are some
parts of the hands really active and gripping loosening running, squeezing,
reaching for something.
(04:12):
And in this last little moment here, just
the tiniest of invitations to sprinkle Sprinkle a little bit of reverence and
dare I say gratitude out of your mind,
(04:32):
out of your heart, down the arms towards the hands.
You're just like pouring your attention of like, hey, thanks, hands.
You're pretty great.
(04:54):
And it's almost like this sort of waterfall fountain of appreciation pouring
out of the heart space, out of the mind, cascading down the arms into the hands,
no matter what they're doing.
They can still be moving, they could be still.
(05:18):
Just to give us the like teeny tiniest what this has maybe been like a minute and a half,
of space in the day to actually see acknowledge and thank the hands for all
they are able to do for us all day long.
(05:44):
Hmm okay thanks
gang thanks for going on the little hand dance journey
with me so i'm i'm
particularly thrilled to allow the
hands to really guide the episode today because Because so much of this conversation
(06:05):
is really like grounded by or like situated in the alchemical powers of the hands.
And like an extension of this idea, I talk about a lot of like creative practice.
(06:26):
Moving our hands creatively and in an inspired way is such a gateway for a lot
of healing, a lot of healing, my God, a lot of healing, right?
And so this notion that like our minds can only get us so far and that, yes,
(06:47):
we love to get into the body, but specifically when we like think about the
power of our hands to help massage and like move really dense inner emotional
material out of our beings and into something generative,
into something that exists outside of us,
(07:09):
whether that's an art practice, whether that's a beautiful meal,
a nourishing meal that you've cooked, even if that's literally just like doing
the chores, that there's a way that we can use the hands as kind of this portal
and gateway to like send...
Dense inner material out of us and
also potentially as ways to like receive information like
(07:32):
these little 10 digit antennas right
so today this episode that I'm bringing
to you this conversation with Nico we've heard we've heard of the lore and the
legend that is Nico she's been on this podcast before just a mere couple episodes
ago but so this is a dual conversation that she has put out both on her podcast,
(07:57):
Living Liminal, and shows up here as well, where we get to discuss and dig into
the content of an upcoming retreat and workshop that we have called DeStaff
Ways. You'll hear more about that later.
But for now, I just want to give some context to, yeah,
(08:19):
the world that we're really sifting through, which is all about the alchemical
magic of working with cloth, working with thread,
working with the legends and mythology of the ancestral spinners and weavers,
both in our direct bloodline and lineage and also in a bigger like pan-religious
(08:45):
context of these archetypal goddesses who work with cloth and thread.
Okay, it's cute. It's magical. We go all over the place. Let's get into it.
I have just been thinking so much about this word wobble. I can't stop thinking
there's just like a neon cursive illuminated glow around the word wobble as like.
(09:16):
You know, there's the sort of knee-jerk reaction to like, oh, no, I'm feeling wobbly.
Like the ground is, I'm like Bambi on the ice.
And to like actually like really slow down to sense the actual sensation of wobble.
(09:39):
I was thinking about like the fool and the banana peel.
Like what dance yeah or
like the banana peel out of control losing footing and
just it's like wow what if we could just reframe the
banana peel moment as like dancing uh-huh
or skating into some other timeline or
(10:00):
possibility and yeah it it takes
you off that like personal trajectory of like
ambition and personal drive and like
leaves you with this kind of broader landscape
of where you fit in
the web of things right because it's usually
the universe that comes to kind of knock you off your footing knock you into
(10:22):
wobble mode yeah and therefore it's this kind of like kind invitation kinder
invitation than we often think it is oh yeah you've been writing recently about
that like what if the universe is just like yeah just loves you so much.
And can you give into that kind of vulnerability of the universe kind of moving
(10:42):
you off your thought of planned out trajectory and into this other landscape? Yeah.
To hear you say knocks you off of the like ambition and personal, like striving mode.
I'm like, I'm immediately like, oh my God, I had to kind of like.
This like inner stomach lurch it's
(11:05):
like we're so allergic to the like well if i'm not being ambitious then what
am i doing what's what's the point if i'm not striving towards these goals and
um like big dreams big visions big achievements that are legible then
my God, am I just like, otherwise I'm just going to fall into the abyss of mediocrity
(11:31):
and a fate worse than death.
Yeah. I wonder about that. Where ambition comes from,
is that from the part of us that's more
like ego and wants a story to identify with and
kind of have these you know gold stars of look what
I did in my life kind of moments as opposed
(11:53):
to I've been thinking a lot about that like the
difference between devotion and ambition and so
like if devotion comes from a
different place maybe from the soul and the soul that's
like in the interconnected universe then it's
not just for you but it's for the broader beauty
of all the things right yo oh
(12:15):
that's such a beautiful distinction yeah
and seems like it could offer some clarity because I
do there is this um
something that comes up in um like the the one on one sessions I've been doing
lately about creative practice is like it just we immediately get into the grief
(12:35):
territory when we talk about like yeah I feel this I feel this this vision this
creative vision inside of me and it wants to be birthed.
I'm just pregnant and ripe and just pushing towards desire, but there's these
things in the way that sort of like, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, like get it all tense and contorted.
(12:57):
It's like, wow, we're just sort of immediately in the grief zone there.
And I find that there can be
both in myself and I can witness it in others that
there's this like conflating this
inner conflation of like
the yes the
(13:19):
like you have been made pregnant by the universe with desire and and like dreams
that have this devotional quality but then like when do those get kind of like
it's like all i can do is sort of move my body in these like constricted ways.
When does that get twisted and wrangled into the ego thing that you're talking about of like,
(13:46):
this has to be legible. This has to, this has to like, this better be good.
If I'm going to try to let this thing out, this better, this can't be a waste of time.
This can't be, um, yeah. Why even bother if it's, if I can't see the end in
sight and can verify that the end is going to be good. Right.
(14:10):
Yeah. And I wonder again, if that's kind of like the.
The story of like belonging in the world of the ego and do i kind of fit in
with this do i have value with this like all those are very much like ego questions
in the context of what our egos are.
It's almost like you know i keep thinking about these
(14:32):
fabric things right so it's like the fabric of humanity
very much kind of held together
by these ego promises or these like
you know conceptual linear let's
this is this is the structure we're working with right and
when you're an artist it's like asking you
to get connected into like a very different
(14:55):
fabric of reality and then with
those like creative impulses those are
actually disruptors and inherently have
the quality of non-belonging to
the current structures that are right
so it's like this crazy it's like
(15:16):
to be an artist and to give in to the
devotional act of the beauty that
wants to come through and is connected to the all that is there is
like an inherent moment of leaving behind
something and that's fucking scary it's
it's the going out into the desert of the unknown and
you know living in the
(15:38):
edge land outside of society in a way so of
course and of course that's sad of course that's grief because the ways we've
been connected are yeah are in in those like Like the ego belonging linear mind
post-capitalist weirdness that we're all trying to like.
(15:59):
Yeah, still hold on to somehow.
A freaking men up and down all the way. Hell yes. Take me to church.
Yeah. We're like, it's the insane risk, the insane boldness to like depart consensus reality. Yeah.
(16:22):
And that everything about the ways that dominant culture has like acculturated us. Mm-hmm.
Has has said that that is nothing
but certain death like leaving consensus reality is
nothing but certain death yeah and it's
i just feel like we're at this moment of finding our own context right like
(16:48):
we you know even i was telling you how i saw the nokekoi tribe last night from
brazil the amazonian rainforest people and it just you know they came out in full beautiful rainbow
beaded, like chest pieces and these insane, like beautiful tuk-tuk feather headdresses
and their faces were all painted.
(17:10):
And, you know, I mean, just like full expression of artistic color and form
and all of this like wild, yeah, this wildness that came from spirit.
It was spirit informed, right?
And yet like in their culture, that's like,
oh yeah, some people get get to wear the feathers because spirit
(17:30):
touches them in that way and these are the
colors that we all see when we're
taking the medicines and you know there's just like a context for their spiritual
practice and then an aesthetic form that they all can kind of like get behind
and express themselves in and where we are in this like you know modern whitewashed.
(17:57):
Western culture um non-indigenous culture
i should just say in general it's like we're separated
out from all of those threads of context and that movement of that creative
expression coming from the land coming from the stories of the people coming
from direct revelation from spirit and being held and honored because you're
(18:21):
part of the people who gets it you And so here we are kind of like these,
yeah, it's almost like our new culture is like the culture of the cracks,
the culture of the like, like the Bayo Komolafe calls it like the refugee or
like the orphans of like,
(18:41):
you know, like we're finding these new expressions that don't really have context yet.
And we're finding them as we go.
Yeah. Yeah. And what a time to find safety, to reimagine safety.
(19:03):
We have to completely obliterate the ways that we've learned what will create nervous system safety.
And mostly those have just been coping strategies and defense mechanisms to
approximate a sense of safety. But like.
Even that feels like such a creative project. Okay, like, let's clean the slate. Yeah.
(19:26):
How we, like, learned what safety was and learned how to, like,
grasp towards some sad, like, generic dollar bin version of safety.
It wasn't even really safety.
Like, people pleasing gives you that hit of safety. Right. Like,
bargain basement safety, right?
Totally. so like we get to
(19:48):
that even that feels like such a creative practice of
like yeah okay how do i that's going to be different from how nico like like
follows the scent in the dark of what will actually bring nervous system support
and nervous system unwinding and unfurling yeah so be like.
(20:09):
Great i am safe enough by like
slurping on my own internal resources and my
own internal visions for what safety could
be so that now i can like
don my version of the feathers given to
me by spirit to be my
full freak ass self yeah and it's
(20:32):
like simply not a problem it's simply not
a problem because it's unconditional right
or my safety is not based on the conditions
of the environment around me right and
yet it is still this like human thing
to need shelter and food and clothing and
(20:53):
when you're in a capitalist system you
know it's like there's there's still this like i
don't know i feel like my my dad's generation still really
believes in like the government's going to take care of us and oh
for sure 100 you know that way is over yeah that way is so over i mean you know
(21:14):
like when we were in europe we really did feel like oh yeah actually we could
still survive because the baguettes are subsidized and you know health healthcare getting a, my.
We took our daughter to the dentist. It was like 35 euros.
Like, you know, it's just, you can still subsidized. I'm living for that. I know. Right.
(21:37):
You know, like there are still governments in the world that like know how to
actually take care of the basic needs of their people.
But I just, yeah, I don't, I don't want to get too political,
but it's, it's definitely like, yeah, how do you, how do you know you're still
going to eat and have a roof over your head and be part of a,
of society and, and just survive, you know, like those like basic things.
(22:02):
Things and gosh i don't know if i need to go into
this tangent too but just like even just knowing how to
like grow my own food that was such a big part of
nervous system safety for me of yeah and just kind of going back to these simpler
ways of life that are still inherent to a lot of the indigenous communities
(22:23):
of this world you know it's you don't need much you need You need people,
you need food, you need shelter.
And then there's all of the support from the unseen world.
And that's the part that I think in this culture is like there's an opportunity
there, like connecting to the unseen and just feeling that support.
(22:47):
I mean at this point i used to be in my like
content and even with like you know socially in
the different circles that i would run run in i just
felt like i had to really sanitize like
my god talk and like my like spirit
talk yeah right to like not
be too freaking unpalatable with like
(23:11):
getting all god on them yeah yeah and or like even just the like it's it's like
amuses me so much like chuckling to myself of like you know the ways that we're
like oh you know like the universe because it's like that's somehow.
(23:33):
Let me be more specific because it's actually not about words or language but
it's like the impulse to be like, let me say the more safe and cuddly,
approachable way of talking about the unseen world that doesn't trigger people.
It doesn't get people up in there like, oh God, here we go.
(23:54):
Some Jesus talk or whatever.
Plenty of us have been harmed by the cult of religion and in this culture in the West.
So I understand it, but I guess all of that is to say of like,
I am like, I increasingly in the last few years, I'm just like,
I feel myself coming out of like closet after closet after closet of spiritual practice.
(24:18):
Totally. Right. Of like,
you know in times of yeah this
is I'll just leave it at that of like oh like I don't want to be like I don't
want to come off as too like like LA white girl like woo town USA uh-huh I don't
want to like be too churchy and I don't want to be like all those feelings yeah yeah back away,
(24:44):
and just being able to be like very real with the fact that I'm like yes my
days are fully My days are fully led by spirit.
My days are fully led by my like rogue band of guides.
And I have not always felt permission to be so like spirit forward. Mm hmm.
(25:06):
Yeah. But I feel like more and more I'm like, oh, yeah, it's going to get increasingly
difficult out here. Yeah.
Or unless we're just like really centering our our unseen support.
Yeah. Yeah. And playing, playing on that playground.
Ground i'm just
(25:28):
getting this like the revolution will not be televised because it's happening
in the unseen world like it's like wow yeah yeah yeah you know you're not gonna
see it you're literally not gonna see it yeah the rebellion is like in that
exact thing in some ways right ooh.
(25:50):
Okay bumper sticker okay bumper sticker the rebellion is in the unseen yeah
the rebellion the revolution will not be televised because it's in your fucking aura.
That's right yeah i had such a
strong sense of that after leaving that gathering last night
i like walked out and i i you know wanted to like verbally pray and like give
(26:14):
thanks to the land and this like incredible moon that had like this rainbow
kind of circle around it and the stars were out it was just like incredible
and all I could feel was that like I became the prayer,
like it didn't even have to take any form or like have any word to it but it
was there was something in just like connecting those threads back into that type of,
(26:42):
yeah that that level of just
knowing in the body in the spirit that you are
connected and yeah i actually it
was funny when we were walking away to go get in our car
bring the kids home to bed i could feel these like threads in my back actually
like all along my spine and yo wow i I just got linked into just some other
(27:06):
under layer of interconnectedness and just like those things.
Like there's like a visceral repair that happens when you connect in, in those ways. Yeah.
Which brings. Yeah.
Go. No, no, go, go, go.
Oh, I just, wow. Like the, the invisible threads.
(27:31):
Yeah. Of like, space.
Of the actual like density of air and space that there is like,
the image that's coming to mind is this okra that i tried to eat last night
that was past its prime it was like very woody and fibrous uh-huh and like that in the unseen,
(27:59):
like like can we imagine can we put on our like five-year-old imagination brain
and like experience space just walking around reality as like as dense and fibrous,
that we're just like fully not paying attention to because we haven't yet like
(28:22):
maybe downloaded that aspect that that part of our sensing technology you know
but it's like it's It's coming online.
Yeah. There are these like fibers and it's like high speed internet, baby.
Just in the fibrous space.
Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
(28:43):
Yeah. I mean, I'm so, I really want to, I keep meaning it's on my list of things
to do is to study string theory and like quantum physics and how like everything comes down to that.
Like these energy threads that everything is made of and um.
(29:03):
Yeah. I mean, you can, you can tune into that, which is like part of our work that we do, right?
With the Distaff Ways. And you were talking to me about this like dance practice
that you were really feeling that.
And I don't know, do you want to share a little bit about that or?
Yeah yeah yeah it's actually making me think of something that happened this
morning when i was out on this playground the playground is connected to like
(29:27):
a open community soccer field,
and my body was just like take your shoes off walk on
that grass but you're the earth right now right
now um and so i did and i
remembered i'm gonna tell this little anecdote
from this morning and connected to the fibrous stringy
dance practice um but i
was recently reading um sophie strands um the flowering wand yeah she's awesome
(29:56):
she's amazing she's so brilliant um and there's this part about like i'm not
gonna get the math right but there's this part about like Like the actual,
like how many miles deep the like mycelial network goes per like square inch of earth.
(30:17):
Wow. Uh-huh. And that she like did the math to be like every footfall,
like the average size of a foot, every footfall on the earth actually like immediately
puts you in contact with X number of miles of mycelial threads,
(30:39):
mycelial information, which is like eons old. Uh-huh. Wow.
And so you're like, like, I'm just still trying to like wrap my mind around
like how much ancestral information is in my DNA and is in my blood and in my tissues, right?
How old that spiraling information is.
(31:01):
And then she goes in and is like, you could just step on the ground.
And every footfall is like instant, like touching archive.
Archive yeah this like tome of intelligence oh yeah the nervous system of the earth in a way,
(31:22):
Unreal. The like library of Congress on like psychedelic.
Yeah. So I was thinking about,
I was remembering that this morning and I was like just playing with this idea
of like slowly walking in the grass and being like somewhere on this field is
(31:44):
like the next piece of information I need to know about this,
like a particular topic in my personal life.
And it was like the phrase that came to mind was like um pokemon like you gotta catch them all,
there's like there's like this pokemon or this
(32:04):
like easter egg out in the field somewhere and
my feet are like these heat seeking like intuitive listening for where that
that one One planting of thy soul of the foot will kind of unleash and osmosis activate,
(32:24):
like bring that piece of information up into me through the like spongy soles
of my feet. I love you. Oh, my God.
Amazing. Yes. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I'm with you. I'm with you. Yep.
Unseen technologies. Here we go.
Um so yeah that that happens morning
(32:45):
um just an average morning for just a regular degular day of the week.
But i feel like you know
my movement practice is not
far from that sort of same um
like framework teamwork that is
(33:09):
like when i'm you
know have my like solo movement practice which is
i guess in layman's terms would just be like i set a
timer for like 20 ish minutes and i agree to not stop moving my body and i'm
just moving intuitively right but there will be sometimes like sometimes Sometimes
(33:31):
I'm really dialed into the sensory experience of like my body moving,
like my bones and muscles doing their thing.
But then sometimes it's like I'm so much more sensorily dialed in to the feeling of space.
And I can like feel these like currents almost. Almost. Mm-hmm.
(34:02):
It's like we almost need a different word than feel because it's so subtle right it's so um,
like i i don't actually feel like i've got some secret like,
claire it's not a it's not like a body claire necessarily maybe it is i don't
know i guess i'm just trying to like de-pedestalize this like freaky practice
(34:26):
because i think it is it's accessible it's accessible yeah but but mostly just
because i've slowed down enough,
times to listen to it yeah that it's like i can just feel myself kind of swimming
and weaving with my hands wrists fingers arms like weaving these cords or weaving in and out of,
(34:50):
these strands of the density of space and yeah that's it that's just that.
Yeah yeah i i mean i think that that's like for some reason it's bringing me
to like a tai chi practice or a qigong practice like one of the things that
(35:14):
my dear friend jay marola when she She has us gather.
She has us sometimes just like work with the energy, the space between the hands.
And there's something that if you've been in practice and you've like deepened
in that way, you can really start to not just feel the kind of ball of energy,
(35:34):
but there is this like the teasing apart of energy,
like the like, yeah, the fine threads that those
balls of energy are made of if you've ever yeah if you've ever had that practice
of just feeling what comes through the hands and I mean I remember that's it's
(35:54):
just such a innate practice which is also why I love like the the distaff work and the fibers work um.
I mean, I remember being a young kid and my mom going through health stuff and
placing my hands. She actually had like an eye surgery.
And I remember like placing my hands over her eyes and first just feeling like
(36:18):
energy coming through like this warmth and like just sending love through the
palms. And it was, you know, just this simple thing.
And then suddenly, like after being there for a while, I could feel these almost
like electric impulses on the tips of my fingers.
And my hands just started moving in this way where I could feel like the threads
of those energies articulating on each tip of my finger.
(36:42):
And I could actually feel that I was helping to kind of weave back the energetic
countenance of her eyes in that moment.
And yeah, and I just think that there's
like this thing that that's definitely there and
can happen and it's like a very like pan-cultural knowing
thing like lay the laying of the hands like it's such a accessible and like
(37:07):
known thing in all kind of mystical traditions and even in like even patriot
right like even in the church they do the laying of the hands thing they do
they do indeed yeah and so there's something that's you know i mean.
Like it's so i don't know i'm just like staring at my hands right now and just
being like yeah There's so much that can be created and worked with and pulled
(37:32):
from the threads of void and into form through the hands.
That's why I feel like healing work and artwork and just creative process,
there's that commonality of things coming through the hands is such an important
(37:52):
and beautiful field of study to get into.
To right like we have these like huge like this huge sensorium of our bodies
but like how much delicate and like known information comes in and out of the hands yeah um.
Wow. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
(38:15):
And even just like yoga mudras, like how each, I mean, yeah,
so like in astrology, each finger has its own associated planet.
Like in Eastern medicine, each tip of the finger has like a associated organ system.
System um in like yoga there
(38:36):
are all these like different ways that you can hold your fingers
together that create a different energetic kind of
circuit in the body right so i
mean there's definitely something to that that's just human
and available to us and then
when you bring the awareness to the threads and
then like further that with the fiber
(38:59):
arts work where you're just like bringing the knowledge
of the hands that what wants to come through the hands like into form
in that way i'd love to hear you talk about your process
with the fiber arts and like where you feel like your hands and your connection
to spirit yeah like what's what's what are the pathways there for you oh what
(39:22):
a delightful question yeah it has me thinking of two things One.
The thing that I was thinking about hearing
you speak just a moment ago is a dance mentor of mine who was recently saying
this super simple but kind of jaw-dropping idea of we are led through our days by our hands.
(39:53):
All day long like the dance of our day
is is is led by our
hands our hands reaching for something opening something grabbing
something pushing up off a ledge
to you know or like off off a surface to stand up
opening doors opening doors it's
like all all of our actions are really like our hands are kind of the like aquarium
(40:17):
like front of the ship yeah like know the way before we do they get to the thing
before the rest of our body does or before our head does wow like object brain does.
And the other thing I'm thinking about is this workshop I recently led earlier
(40:39):
this week called Scrap the Plan that's really about embracing the unknown,
embracing mystery and uncertainty through creative practice and through ritual
fiber work and textile work.
And we did this kind of opening meditation where I,
(40:59):
it was so simple and it was like very off the cuff where the image came to mind
to like drop the thinking mind down into the heart and to sense this like kind of effusive,
erupting, kind of percolating energy.
And it fountains out, out of the heart, down the arms and sort of puddles and
(41:20):
pools in the palms of the hands.
Mm-hmm and then we just rested our attention and our hands.
Or you know a cup just a couple of simple breaths and gave a little reverence
gave a little honoring to our hands and then everybody was like holy shit my
(41:43):
hands yeah my freaking hands.
I never think about my hands.
And that one sort of simple exercise became this refrain that we all kept coming
back to throughout the couple hour workshop. Wow.
(42:06):
That like the invitation is, is when your logic brain kind of sputters or stalls
out or doesn't know what's next and kind of goes into like control panic. Uh-huh.
The hands always know what to do next.
Oh, I love that. It sounds so rich and beautiful. Yeah.
(42:31):
Yeah. And so how does that play out? Like for people who are doing the work
with you, if they're having a brain sputter moment, what does it look like to
let the hands be led or lead?
Yeah one thing is like um that
it reminds me of like watching a polaroid develop
(42:53):
where we actually have to
like turn on the sense
or sensory capacity of the hands the like tactile animal intelligence in the
hands but it like takes a minute like the polaroid has the Polaroid of sensation
has to take a couple minutes to develop because mostly the information is there all the time.
(43:19):
The access to insane amounts of sensory information in the hands is staggering,
but the brain has to sort of siphon it off or dial way down so that we can just
do the kind of rote mechanics of our day.
(43:39):
Um so we we have like in in
practice we'll have like these different like touch different
kinds of touch exercises that on
the surface i mean it's so it's so simple even our dear listeners right now
can doing can do it like your hands are probably touching something i love to
(44:00):
wash dishes while i listen to podcasts and so you can like slog your way through
doing the damn dish pile.
Or you can like.
Just start to like polaroid development
slow down style like slowly gather
(44:20):
more and more sensory information touch
information about like the particular cascade of
the water the particular slipperiness of the
soap you are using the particular like
gunk build-up grainy texture
of the lasagna i don't know
(44:41):
right and we
don't do it this is you're giving just a perfect example
of why we don't do that mostly yeah yeah
yeah we have so many stories associated with
the tasks that our hands are up
to oh yeah most of the time we're like lasagna
gunk freaking get out
(45:02):
of my life oh my god gross that we
miss the like the granular the
practice of like getting more
literate getting more sensitive to what
these bad boys yeah what these bad boys really can do it's like a really sophisticated
(45:26):
piece of technology and we're like whatever putting gloves on them yeah wow
the world is so icky I just latex gloves.
Touch any of this the world is too much yeah yeah wow ah like just like,
(45:48):
I don't know just like the level of spaciousness in
that hearing you talk about that just gives me this this
deep breath of yeah fresh air
of wow just the whole world that's
made in the pile of dirty dishes and the
opportunity to feel god and lasagna
gunk and also
(46:12):
wow you heard it here first god lives in the lasagna
gunk what are you doing throw away
your yellow rubber dish gloves people right didn't
you know um i'm just
i mean but i'm also thinking of like maybe a
little bit more flesh like in my my experience
(46:33):
like i can feel the pleasure more in gardening in you know last weekend we harvested
our carrots and just like the loosening of the soil and the pulling up of this
like beautiful root and like the brushing off and just that that visceral experience of um.
Hand connected to soil and food as part of, you know, just the,
(46:58):
the whole living ecosystem.
And, and then also the other thing this
brings up for me is the trance state that we can get into when doing repetitive
motions with the hands and how like so much of that in modernity has been like
taken over by the scrolling of the finger on the iPhone or the typing of the keys or,
(47:21):
you know, There are these repetitive motion things that our hands are still being asked to do,
but where is the stitch work? Where is the beading?
Where is the sorting of the seed from the pods to then plant the corn?
Whatever it is. there's the beans i should say um
there's there's like this it's like
it's like where is the importance of our
(47:44):
hands work in like the fuller context of our survival our connection to god
like all of those things like there it just feels almost like we've gotten to
a place of of disconnection from that as opposed to you know like when i was again with the,
nokekoi people, I mean, they're like that beadwork, the like hand loomed beads,
(48:08):
that takes a long, long time.
And like, what are you thinking about when you're doing that?
You know, what are you open to like that?
Yeah, the necessity of trance state and like having the hands be busy doing
repetitive motion as like a way to connect with the divine.
(48:31):
Hell yes. I love that you're saying like, what does that open you to?
That it's almost like you keep the hands busy in this way that I would argue,
or at least I would say that it feels very much about,
very much inside of my own practice that like sewing is a devotional act.
(48:52):
Sewing is like, and what I feel devoted to
in the sewing practice and sewing
project like can shift and change but
it's like so often it's
like it's in devotion to to inspiration
like capital i inspiration that feels like for me just like the manna like the
(49:14):
reason for living is to like my god have the opportunity to like stick your
straw in that sauce of like i'm inspired by something and And I can like,
just like flow on that current.
Like what an unspeakably sexy, delicious gift.
(49:37):
And it like, when I'm in the hand sewing stitch practice, I'm like,
thank God I get to feel this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. Because, man, the days that I feel bereft of inspiration or like
long periods of time when I just am like, I just got nothing.
(49:58):
The field is so fallow. I mean, even that is not a great example because a fallow
field is very important.
Yeah, it's important. And it's very it's still an active.
There's some active processes happening in the field.
Okay, gang, I am briefly interrupting this episode to let you know that the
doors are closing to the Distaff Ways Retreat this Friday.
(50:22):
So if you are listening to this conversation and you're like,
wow, yes, okay, inspiration is flowing,
cauldrons are getting stirred, yes, please, more, more, more,
I invite you to pop into the show notes and take a look at the details for the Distaff Ways workshop.
Y'all, it's just going to be such a beautiful synthesis of like flow state creative
(50:48):
practice and like deep alchemical spirit work, right?
So if you already have a creative practice, if you already are acculturated
to working with your hands and finding that it really is this gateway to the mystery,
the what else-ness, the big unseen realm, And you're like, I love that. That is my happy place.
(51:13):
Then you're really going to find your people inside this part workshop and part
retreat, in-person retreat later this year.
We'd love to have you. There are scholarships available. There are payment plans and...
Really, I just think it's going to be such a spectacular place to find more people like yourself.
(51:36):
So if that feels appealing, please
check it out. And yeah, hope to see you there. Okay, back to the show.
Yeah, I'm just thinking about, you know, the people of yesteryear sitting on their spinning wheel.
And just like even just that sound you
(51:58):
know i'm obsessed with the sound of the spinning wheel right
and it's
you know there's the shot the shaman's drum there's
the you know the techno music that
you trance out to whatever that like repetitive sound is also
like part of our wiring of our
(52:19):
psyche to get our minds into that kind of theta
state where we are open to the dream where we are open to
the inspiration and to the divine and you know
the sewing machine itself also has that oh yeah
just that the sounds alone
and then and then the busying of the hands and so yeah so being able to like
(52:41):
slow down enough to work with all of those tools in a way that we recognize
that process that's happening and just like put full intention behind being
open to what, what comes through in those moments.
That's, yeah. It makes me think about what you were talking about earlier with
like, we, you know, we could say scrolling on Instagram, for example,
(53:05):
scrolling on TikTok, it has that same kind of repetitiveness, right?
But there's like, it's so slit.
Swiping up on your phone as a repetitive gesture, there's
actually no friction there's no
like there's no lasagna chunks there's
no hopefully not you know
(53:27):
it I will say that it does occasionally dawn
on me to like as I'm in scroll the particular trance of scroll mode like to
just like feel the shape of my phone feel the texture of my case phone case
that like it is that is a trippy little um switch that can happen,
(53:51):
doesn't mean I have to like throw the phone down and get out of scroll mode
but it's just like a uh-huh I still got hands here they are still got hands
yeah there's there's an action happening but it makes me think about how like
you know in contrast of what we're describing of like.
Textile work the um the particular
(54:13):
trance brought on by ritual fiber
work they're like there's so much grain there's so much texture there's so much
like kind of gritty friction and play with tension yeah and play with tension
it's just like a playground of like,
(54:37):
that's a touch playground yeah and
even like the act of the piercing of the needle through fabric is such a i mean
just that alone is a whole world uh-huh and then accidentally piercing your
freaking fingers yeah like oh my god i'm alive okay
(54:58):
you forgot yeah yeah yeah oh yeah there's so much so um i feel like we might
wrap soon yeah and i'm just feeling like.
If you were to talk about kind of the the spirit of this death ways and And
(55:23):
why that feels like right medicine for right now and what you would hope to
kind of bring through in that container when we gather.
What would that be? Yeah, I'm so excited for Distock Ways.
I'm so excited for a container where I get to both co-create with you,
(55:48):
but co-create with the people who feel called to show up to this kind of work of tapping into,
it's like putting on the goggles, the night vision goggles to see what is in
the dark, to see the unseen, but the night vision goggles are your hands. Yeah.
(56:10):
Right. Yeah. You're like, like, literally, it's like the feeling of like,
I don't actually ever do this, really.
But the sort of cartoon image of like, feeling around in the dark for the light
switch for the lamp, and you're like, touch, touch, touch, touch,
touching the wall, touching the thing and the thing.
And I'm so just like, I'm like preemptively agog.
(56:39):
I'm preemptively like mouth wide open about the kind of learning and unknowing
that will happen in that space of.
You know, like you and I, we can just like, we love these topics.
We could just like jazz and, you know, like carry on and get all like excited together.
(57:00):
But like to ask people to come and sit in circle together, sit in ceremony together
and be in these alchemical practices where we trust.
We take off the thinking brain, take off the logic brain that we've been given
by the patriarchy, by capitalism, by all the blah, blah, blahs.
(57:22):
We can set that down over here and we can start to move in these uncertain ways,
like hands out in front of us, feeling through the currents of the new emergent world.
Right micro macro we're like feeling through the project the like the the fiber
(57:47):
arts the textile project in front of us but the macro is like we're feeling
our way into what this new.
Emergent like post collapse of the old world yeah and i just can't think of
a better way to spend one's time is how I personally feel about it.
(58:10):
I can't wait to be up in that space because I'm like, we need new approaches
and we need to be able to, we need different strategies for reading,
the blueprint of the technologies that we already have in our bodies, in our hands,
(58:33):
and our unseen capacities.
And I just like that. It's just so exquisite to be up in the teachings of cloth,
the teachings of the weavings and the teachings of thread and the needle.
I just like, I'm so humbled by what they teach me in my practice all the time.
(59:02):
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. What about you?
What words come to you in this moment?
Yeah, just the tears in the fabric of realities and how...
We can be led by the knowing of our hands to mend those divides,
(59:26):
to find new ways, new pathways,
and do it through making beauty, right?
And it's like, the other thing that I'm really excited about this work is that,
you know, I've been leading retreats for over a decade now,
and it's like they kind of happen in a
(59:47):
bubble sometimes right so we get together and we
do all of our inner work and our
transformational personal work and um
are connected with spirit and with each other and
have these cathartic moments but then we like go back to our desk jobs or whatever
taking care of the kids like all of the kind of like life outside of the retreat
(01:00:08):
and i keep I keep thinking about how art is this really beautiful touchstone
and kind of seed for the rest of culture.
And so through our research, through our experiential understanding of what
it is to shift the very fabric of reality through body and spirit,
(01:00:31):
that we are then creating these kinds of sigils or like forms,
these magical forms that then we can take to the gallery that we're all going
to be showing our creative projects at and hope that it extends,
(01:00:53):
it ripples out from beyond our small cohort that's been working together.
And then that feeds the community and then they become part of that prayer that
then moves out into their life and whoever they touch and come into contact with.
And so it feels like the art piece of it is also really exciting to me to like
create actual form from the unseen as, as informed from the unseen and how that, yeah,
(01:01:18):
just that piece alone to me is just like everything. Yeah.
Yeah. And to also just like, yeah.
And also just to like know that we have this inherent ability to move healing
and beauty through the hands.
And so like a big part of it too, is teaching people like these healing practices
that are really so natural to when we just like drop in and listen and get out
(01:01:43):
of the way of like what wants to flow through and how it flows through yeah so.
Um yeah and and the the best part
is working with you because i i just feel like i don't
know i've been wanting to for such a long time and i just feel like we're um
we're just going to make cool worlds together as we always do when we chat and
(01:02:07):
um to to bring people into that space and to just like i can just see us sitting
in the corner having our minds blown every time somebody says
something cool or like does something amazing and just
like being so thrilled by holding
the container of all the genius that's going to flow through the
people who show up so yeah yeah I really feel like a very powerful magnet happening
(01:02:32):
with this work that like the people that feel tapped to be like wait what oh
okay like seership training and with sewing
and weaving. Okay.
Like the people who are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me like,
let me take a whiff of this. Yeah.
(01:02:53):
I'm like, I can't, I can't wait to meet. I just, I'm like, that's,
that's, this is so much. Yeah.
There's so much excitement and so much magnetism for me around the kind of like, yeah.
But with the synergy of that. Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes. Cool. well so um
i think we'll pop off for now but thank you so much for this time and this chat
(01:03:18):
and all the beautiful explorations and thank you all for listening um and yeah
well hopefully we'll see you soon amazing love you so big love you too.
Music.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!