Episode 2: A conversation with Andrew Radnedge about workplace adjustments

In this episode, we talk to Andrew Radnedge from the Department of Communities and Justice about how he implements workplace adjustments as a manager.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
I'm Leon Coningham from the SBS Inclusion Program.
I'm here with Andrew Radnedge from the Department of Communities and Justice.
We're here to talk about workplace adjustments.
We were talking earlier around workplace adjustments and it became obvious that the first place to start with workplace adjustments is even before you hire someone.

(00:23):
So I was hoping you might talk us through the process of attracting people who might have a disability to your organisation.
So through the application process obviously starts at the advertisement and I guess it's not that we're trying to attract people with a disability.
It's about being inclusive,
you know,
from the very first advertisement.

(00:44):
So ensuring that,
you know,
if you do need a workplace adjustment through that interview process that it's in the advert and people who need that adjustment,
know where to go to reach out to the hiring manager,
let them know that they've got a cognitive disability or a mobility disability.
And through that process that hiring manager can make the necessary adjustments so that applicant has the same chance as any,

(01:11):
any,
any person who's going for that role.
And so what might some of these adjustments look like in the interview process,
for example,
so an adjustment could be potentially having more time to do one of the tasks,
whether it's a time based part of the progress,
so a cognitive test or if there's a written assessment,
if someone says,

(01:32):
look,
I can't write.
So then looking at other sort of assessment methods which might be just a verbal presentation or it could be something more digitally focused.
Some people might say,
how do you keep the interview process fair for all?
Then if you're giving some adjustments to some interviewees,
how do you respond to that?

(01:53):
I think it's about,
you know,
everybody putting their best foot forward.
Um,
irrespective of,
I guess what people might think is fair and unfair.
Look,
I think it's through that process,
you want to get the best out of people who are applying for the role and if,
if an adjustment hasn't been made and they can't,

(02:15):
you know,
efficiently complete an assessment task.
And um as a panel,
you know,
we agree that that capability wasn't met,
then,
you know,
that's unfair and that person doesn't have the same opportunity to succeed in that role because ultimately the way the public service application process works like it's,

(02:39):
it's based on focus capabilities and it's pretty black and white in terms of being met and unmet.
There's no,
there's no scale like 1 2 3 4 5.
So it's important that someone has that same opportunity to compete,
I guess,
fairly and evenly.
So the Department of Communities and Justice has a network for helping hiring managers to hire people with disability and make adjustments.

(03:04):
Can you talk to that a little bit,
please?
Yes.
So I think DCJ established the Disability Employment Network,
possibly maybe 7 or 8 years ago.
And it's grown into a really powerful network and inclusive network.
And,
um,
it's not just focused on people with a disability in the organisation,

(03:25):
it's really inclusive for anyone to be part of it.
Because I guess as a hiring manager or even a line manager or,
you know,
being in a team with someone with a disability,
it's important to understand what those disabilities are,
how we can adjust.
Our workplaces are just the way we deliver content or deliver messages,

(03:47):
whether it's simply an email or it's a presentation at a team meeting.
I guess it's just ensuring that you're aware of what these adjustments are throughout your day and adjusting it to meet those people's needs.
So you had a particular employee with disability came into your team introduced via the network and you were required to make some adjustments.

(04:11):
Can you describe concretely what some of those adjustments were?
Yeah.
So when Josh came into DCJ,
I think Vision Australia and another vendor which I can't remember the name obviously came into the workplace and that was our first experience actually meeting Josh.
So then obviously that adjustment process was looking at the ground,

(04:33):
the building that we worked in,
looking at the desk location,
looking at lighting and then looking at the actual hardware that Josh might need to effectively work.
And that adjustment included,
you know,
having arms that could move left and right up and down,
a specific monitor that would come forward,

(04:55):
had the right resolution,
things like that.
And then also adjustments around light.
So,
you know,
with Josh and his visual impairment,
it's important that the light is at a specific,
you know,
brightness level,
that adjustment was purely removing one of the halogen light bulbs that existed above Josh's desk.

(05:19):
So once it was removed,
that light was perfect,
Josh could work effectively in that location.
So there's a case here where the adjustments that were made for a number of members of the team actually were beneficial for a much larger range of people in the offices so that those offices are now far more inclusive for everyone.

(05:42):
And that could be people with disabilities,
whether you know or not they have a disability or not or whether they just don't like standing up,
for example,
or sitting down.
Yeah,
that's right.
And even like how people enter the office,
like obviously 6PSQ (Parramatta Square office building) has been set up
so people with mobility issues,
whether they have a walking stick or

(06:02):
they're in a wheelchair can access these buildings and work effectively and I guess,
you know,
people might have mobility issues or they might even have,
you know,
physical disabilities and might require to have a desk that they can stand up at all day.
So simple things like those adjustments have been made.

(06:26):
At what stage do managers need to consider accessibility when they are either designing communications for their own teams or designing communications for external parties or even products.
I think it has to start at day one.
If you're developing a word document,
you know,
you need to ensure that the document is structured.

(06:46):
It's written in plain English.
If it's using images,
you know,
that it has the alt text and
things like that.
And,
you know,
if you're managing websites and products that like
it has to start at,
at the very start.
And so if you had any tips for other managers around either hiring people with a disability or making their content more accessible,

(07:11):
what would your tips be?
Look,
my tip is to probably enjoy the process because it's a,
it's a learning experience.
And I guess,
you know,
lots of hiring managers might not have the sort of background to accessibility that I have.
So I think that I am lucky in that regard and some hiring managers might not know anything about workplace adjustments.

(07:36):
But if you sort of embrace the process,
learn a bit about it,
then I think it means that you can start to apply it throughout your working day.
And I think if you're doing that, you're being inclusive to
you know,
people within DCJ but also in the broader community.
Um,
you know,
because it's,
it's only more recently that disability has been

(07:58):
um
I guess so widely discussed and even,
you know,
Dylan Alcott being our Australian of the Year who's been a massive advocate for disability.
But look,
I really feel now that people with a disability have a,
have a voice and it's important to listen and then adjust the way we interact on a

(08:18):
on a personal basis
with those people.
So I think as a hiring manager,
yeah,
look,
enjoy the process,
learn what you can, apply it to your
role in any way you can.
And um,
I think if people do that individually,
then I think the collective sort of effort will
you know
create a workplace and inclusive sort of culture that we can all live in.

(08:45):
Thank you very much.
We've been speaking to Andrew from the Department of Communities and Justice about workplace adjustments.
Thank you.
Thanks Leon.
I appreciate it.
Ok,
so we've heard when workplace adjustments go well,
but if you feel like you're not getting the adjustments that you need,
what are your options?
I have Sally Dews from Anti-discrimination NSW

(09:08):
here to discuss what some of your options are. So I'm a conciliation officer at
Anti-discrimination New South Wales.
So I investigate complaints of discrimination and help parties try and resolve complaints.
So we don't take sides,
but we sit down with both parties, often together, and help them discuss the complaint and resolve it.

(09:31):
So if you've requested an adjustment in the workplace because you have a disability and your employer is not responsive to that request,
it may be that you have a complaint of disability discrimination under the Anti Discrimination Act.
If you want to talk to someone about that,
you can call our enquiries line on 1800 670 812.

(09:55):
And the next step after advice,
if someone does want to make a complaint?
Then on our website antidiscrimination.nsw.gov.au
you have the ability to lodge a complaint with us. I'd just like to thank Andrew and Sally for their time on the podcast today.