September 30, 2025 • 54 mins
Joe Walsh is a former Congressman and Presidential Candidate. Joe airs out his grievances with the Republican Party and explains his journey that led him to becoming a member of the Democrat Party.
Joe is concerned about America and the direction that Trump is leading people. Joe joined the Democrat party to teach them how to fight politicly, and balance things out with his conservative outlook that crosses the aisle of the Hard Left and Hard Right.
Joe wants everyone to live in an America that is based on common sense and offers opportunity, and to do this, Joe may very well run for President of The United States of America one more time.
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Joe is concerned about America and the direction that Trump is leading people. Joe joined the Democrat party to teach them how to fight politicly, and balance things out with his conservative outlook that crosses the aisle of the Hard Left and Hard Right.
Joe wants everyone to live in an America that is based on common sense and offers opportunity, and to do this, Joe may very well run for President of The United States of America one more time.
Support:
https://buymeacoffee.com/worldablaze
Email: worldablaze@fontesmedia.com
Web: https://www.worldablazepodcast.com/
X: https://x.com/fontesablaze
Threads:https://www.threads.net/@worldablazewithgeorgefontes
FB: https://www.facebook.com/worldablazewithgeorgefontes
Please like, follow, and share the show!!!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome world to Believes listeners, and I have a special guest,
Joe Walsh, former congressman. As you've said, from Tea Party
to Democrat Party, I'm glad you're here, by the way,
because I think you're the person to talk to given
the state of America right now and what's been happening,
and given your experience. I've heard you plenty of times.
(00:27):
I've heard your own podcast, you know, talking about renewing
our social contract. I've heard you as a guest on
other people's podcasts. I've heard you on Piers Morgan, and
I got to say that on your own show, you're
extremely fiery, but you're also very respectful when you're a
guest on other people's shows, which says a lot about
your maturity, by the way, as a person, and being
able to talk about things that even you don't agree with,
(00:49):
which is awesome. So Joe, let me start here, and
I know you're probably tired of saying this, but let's
get a little background real quick, because you've explained it
many times, but my audience may not have heard it.
Why why did you go to the Democrat side? What
was your journey that led you there? And with that
being said, given your experience and why you went to
the Democrat Party, also give me a little bit of
(01:12):
insight and how you're seeing America today.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, and George, by the way, great to be with you,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Look, I could be wrong, I could be an idiot.
I could be way off base. I think my former
political party is an authoritarian embracing cult. I believe it's
a real fucking threat to this country we all love.
So when Trump won last November, and I've been an
(01:44):
independent for five years, I left the Republican Party after
my crazy Republican primary challenge to Trump. But after Trump
won in November last November, I realized that I got
to try to do more to defeat my former political party.
I may not be a Democrat on most of the
(02:06):
policy issues, but the Democratic Party needs to get their
fucking act together. And so I thought if I could
jump in and be part of the party and help
them get their act together, like I didn't want to.
I spend a lot of my time going on CNN
and MSNBC and yelling about Trump, and I write about Trump.
I don't want to fucking do the next four years
doing that I don't want to be a commentator. I
(02:28):
want to be in the political fight. We've got two parties.
That party right there, my new party is the only
thing that can beat my former party. So I thought
if I could get in and help that party become
a bigger tent because I'm no hardcore progressive as you know,
and help that party learn how to fucking fight and
(02:48):
maybe help others like me become Democrats now, then we
could better help defeat Trump and what my former party is.
That's that's principally why I did it. Otherwise I just
would have stayed a homeless independent.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I think you represent a lot of people, even people
as that consider themselves still conservative, don't necessarily feel fully
aligned with the Republican Party. I myself, I am kind
of shifting that way, and I'm a conservative by the way,
but at the same time, I'm not sure where we're going.
Can I ask you this, Have you seen the Republican
(03:27):
Party in general on this path before Trump? Or did
it all start with Trump as president in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No, it's a great question, George, and I've said repeatedly,
you know what I think about Trump?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard start this.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
The countries at each other's throats were dangerously divided. Our
fucking politics sucks. Our political system is broken. I was
saying that when I was in Congress twelve years ago,
way before Trump. So Trump's a response to that. I mean,
if you think about it, only a really broken political
(04:04):
system could elect somebody as horrible as that. So, I mean,
he's made everything worse, and he's made us more divisive.
He's increasing the divide and the hate and all of that.
But no, he's the He's the ugly product of a
broken political system. When I was part of the Tea
Party many moons ago, I could see that that that maga,
(04:30):
what you know, the Tea Party became maga and that's
when I got off the train. But I could see
those threads there. And when the Tea Party, when we
didn't deliver, then people, those folks got pissed off and
they turned to Trump and he tapped into that anger.
But yeah, I could see it brewing for a while.
(04:50):
I wish I'd done more to address it early.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I think I think you're right about Trump, Like when
he came on the scene, I believe it was already
headed that way. And what made him popular is he
was kind of saying what people were thinking. But you know,
here we are now and people are starting to question
his solutions. I like some of the stuff he's done.
I'm not on board with everything, though, I mean, you know,
I do think so's It's like he represents a certain
(05:17):
part of America right now on how they feel. But
even people who voted him in are starting to say, Okay,
where's this train going? Like what is happening? Can I
ask you this, Joe, from your experience, what do you
think was broken? Like I want, can you define that?
Or is it too complex to really put your thumb
on it?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, No, George, that's a good question, man, And understand
like I don't know anybody. Maybe you do. I don't
know anybody who's taken the same road I took. Like
I come from the Tea Party and now I'm a Democrat.
I come from the MAGA base. You know, most of
(05:57):
the never Trumpers who you and I know, they were ryaning,
they were moderate, squishy Republicans to begin with. I used
to fight those guys. I'm like the only never Trumper
who literally comes from the Maga bass. So I understood
why my voters, my supporters, my audience embraced that guy
(06:20):
because he was an outsider and he promised disruption. Fuck
I wanted disruption when I went to DC as part
of the Tea Party wave, I was a disruptor. I
think both political parties suck. I've been saying this for
a long time. I wish we had three parties, four parties,
five parties. I think the way we vote is fucked up.
(06:42):
Jerry Mandering sucks. We've got elites, elites in the media,
and elites in the political establishment who've forgotten about regular people.
All of that that Trump tapped into was this shit
I was talking about before Trump, and so if I
saw the need for Trump, I voted for Trump in
twenty sixteen. I didn't pay enough attention to him. I
(07:05):
really didn't. I didn't take him seriously. But I voted
for him because my people voted for him, and I
knew why they voted for him, because they wanted somebody
to blow it up, tear it down, drain the swamp.
All of that, our politics was no longer meeting the
needs of regular folk. Now, disruption, George, I think is good.
(07:28):
You probably think it's good. I think you know, business
needs disruptions, politics needs disruption regularly. So I'm a disruptor.
But there are good disruptors and bad disruptors. It turns
out Trump's an evil disruptor. Like I get, I know
why people support him, but you got a guy who
(07:49):
lies every fucking time he opens his mouth, and I
could go on and on and on, so eventually he's
just a bad disruptor, but they clung to him.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Do you disagree with everything that Trump has done?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Though?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I'm not trying to make that a loaded questions, but
just you know.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Now, you know what, George, that's a great that's a
great question that nobody's asked me in really. Yeah. People
would ask me that question like up until the twenty
twenty election, and then they'd stop. Yeah, and I'm trying
to think I haven't thought about that in a while. Yeah,
obviously that's a really good question when you look at
(08:33):
policy shit he's done. And I don't know where you
are politically. I'm generally kind of a free market libertarian,
keep the government out of my life kind of guy. Right,
That's what I am, which is why I was always
a Republican, because I always believe the Republicans generally stood
for a more limited government.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
At least that was why, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
The Democrats obviously didn't. They liked the bigger government. Would argue,
now what this Republican party has become. It's a big
government party on the right. So now we've got a
big government party on the left and a big government
party on the right. But they're sure there's shit Trump's
done that I would support. I'm off the charts pro Israel.
(09:17):
I don't think Trump really gives a fuck about Israel,
but he's he's acting more pro Israel. Support that. Anytime
I can cut anybody's taxes, I support cutting taxes. Trump
got rid of a bunch of regulations in his first term,
all about that onerous government ranks. So there is some
stuff clearly for someone like me, though it ain't about policy, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So I'm gonna steer this away from Trump here in
a minute, because I don't want to make him the
focal point. I mean, everybody talks about her every day.
But let me ask you this. I'm agreeing with you
a lot on what you said in terms of some
of the stuff, right, I think everybody can say that
he made sense. Some areas. There's some things that made
a lot of sense, but where I think he's failing personally.
And I you know, when I first started, a lot
(10:06):
of ever really just pegging me for Promaga all the time. Now, yes,
I voted for Trump also, but I also have a
right to question where things are going, because you know,
at some point you got to call it in right
his foreign policy, I don't know what you think, but
in my mind, I don't think he knows what he's
doing anymore. I mean he has okay, he hasn't taken
(10:28):
a hard stand on anything. He flip flops all the time.
And I know we don't want any wars, but at
the same time, we're not We're not taking a position
of strength militarily, even if it is just a threat.
And so he says one thing, people just waited out
because they know he's not going to do anything, and
they just go back to whatever the hell they want
to do. What do you think the future is for
America geopolitically right now? Given his policy? Do you think
(10:53):
he will probably turn it around as time goes on,
or does he just not give a fuck anymore because
he knows this is his last term.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, George, I will say that unlike you and I
and I don't know you and you don't know me.
But I'm going to guess George that you like, you've
got a philosophical core, you know, kind of like the
shit you believe in. I do, most of us do.
Trump doesn't. I mean, let's just be real. Trump's just
a vehicle. Trump doesn't care about anything but Trump. He's
(11:21):
one hundred percent transactional. So so he George. He could
have run in twenty sixteen as a Democrat, as a
populis disruptive democrat. There's no philosophical core to him. I'm
foreign policy. I've always been kind of the opposite of
a Neocon. I don't want American troops everywhere. I don't
(11:43):
want to be nation building and fighting wars. Trump like
has given lip service to that over the years. Again,
I don't think he believes in it because, as you said,
he's all over the map. There's no consistency. Look, you
want to get us out of NATO and you don't
give a fuck about Europe, then forget about Ukraine. I
(12:05):
mean again, I don't want American troops on the ground,
but Russia putin invade Ukraine. We're part of NATO, damn it.
We should do whatever we can to help Ukraine defend itself.
I tend to believe that Trump really likes Putin and
that's why he's doing what he's doing there. But no,
there's no core that drives him. The one stupid policy
(12:27):
he seems to have always believed in is tariffs. Again,
I think he's an idiot. I don't think he understands
but that he's gonna stick stubbornly with his tariffs probably forever.
Everything else though, he's just given lip service. And the
(12:48):
people around him are very much and I know a
lot of the people around him, they're very much hardcore nationalists,
Like they want to build a fucking wall around America
and keep people out. They want America to be a
Christian country again, and so he Trump doesn't care about
(13:08):
any of that, but he's letting them dictate a lot.
I don't George last thing. I'll say, like, I'm a
free market, free trade Republican from way back when. Maybe
the Republican Party was never that, but I don't think
that Republican Party's ever coming back. I think it's the
Maga Party. I'm older than you for the rest of
(13:31):
my life.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So let's define that difference real quickly between a fenced
off America versus one that is not necessarily open border
but allows for actual immigration of people who are qualified
to be immigrants into the United States. Yeah, do you
want to define that a bit?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah. And by the way, George, I love this issue
and this issue. If there's like one issue, especially last
time in twenty four that really got them elected, it
would be the issue of immigration. Because Democrats have utterly
fucked up the issue of immigration. So and I guess
one of the ways to kind of crystallize it is,
(14:17):
I'm a defend the fucking border. Nobody can come in
this country illegally. Defend the fucking border. But damn it
make it easier for people to come here legally. It
shouldn't cost so much money, it shouldn't take so much time.
I'm George, I'm one of these guys who I want
(14:39):
to open my arms up to legal immigration, Like I
want America to be that shining city on the hill
where white, black, or brown, fucking a you want to
come to America for freedom and opportunity, We welcome you, Muslim, jew, Christian,
I don't care what you are. You want freedom, come on.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, But I think any rational here legally, yeah, any
rational person would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Stop you would, George. Today's Republican Party wants to limit
legal immigration as well. They and it animates a lot
of what Trump's doing, like get rid of these people
on student visas, to port all these people who are
here claiming asylum. Americans will do these jobs. Today's Republican
(15:25):
Party is anti illegal and legal immigration. I think.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You, let's hope you're wrong. I mean, my perspective is
I am like you. I agree in legal immigration. I
agreely do need to make it easier. I have friends
who've gone through the process that took them years, like
just just the hoops that guy jumped through. And I
also believe though America felt this way, and maybe it
(15:53):
was just messaging a narrative that made America feel this way,
as in, you know, we got too many people here
taking our jobs, too many people taking our sources, et cetera.
And so that's I think that's what got us here.
But I don't know if anyone, like if they really
took a step back and thought about it. I'm not
sure if that's really what they believe at their core,
because at some point all of us has an immigrant
relative from somewhere like my dad's half Portuguese. His family
(16:15):
came here, you know, from overseas. Most people I know have,
So I hope you will just put that way.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
No, George, and again, no wronger right here. You could
be close to the right. It's just my read of
today's party is the animating legislation, Tom Cotton and others
putting forward legislation to put real hard limits on legal
immigration until all of America is employed and shit like that.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Which is not really that's blooney. Yeah, that's not really right.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And here's the other thing I'd say, George, like, I
can't I understand that Democrats suck on this issue, and
so Trump then comes in and now he's doing this ugly,
cruel American shit when it comes to deporting people, right,
deporting day labors and grandmothers. What pisses me off is
(17:09):
politicians and the big business community created this broken immigration system.
They're the ones who created this, I mean, incentivized people
to come here. Fuck them. We created this broken system
and people come here taking advantage of the broken system
for a better life. And we're going to deport them
like politicians haven't had the guts to really address this
(17:31):
issue for years.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, you're right, we did create our own We did
actually create this situation.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and it's not fair to penalize.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
No, it isn't. So let's let's move on to America
right now. Okay, you said it. We're at each other's throats.
We're fighting for no reason, Like we're looking at our
neighbors and starting to question question whether or not we
should like be friends or enemies. And I'm really concerned
with all the rhetoric about trying to push us towards
(18:00):
a civil war. You see the memes, you see all
the bullshit out there, which I think we're going to
hopefully be smart enough to never get there. But the
idea of you looking at your neighbor and wondering whether
or not you should shoo him the head because he's on
the other side, it's just a bunch of bullshit in that.
But that's the messaging being pushed, Like how do we
get past that in your mind? Because the idea of
having discussions like you and I are having. Okay, and
(18:22):
I'll be up front, we may not agree on everything,
But I'm not going to be disrespectful. I'm going to
hear you out because I want to know where you
come from, and then maybe I'll walk away with it's
going well. You know, Joe said some stuff that I
need to think about. That's what we need to be doing.
But how do we get past you know, filtering through
the narratives, the messaging, the social media, all the bullshit
that's that's keeping people trapped into this like bubble of
thought process to where we need to be enemies and
(18:44):
be so hard right and left because I mean, fuck Joe,
we live in the gray most of the time. Let's
just be honest. It's not always black and white. So
what in your mind can we do to move past this?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And George, that will be the most important thing you'll
ask me in our kindnversation, because you know what I
think about Trump and what I think about I don't
care who the president is. If most Americans stay on
this road where we hate the person we disagree with,
then democracy this thing's done.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Period.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I actually think we're at a point where we as
a people have to decide, as Marjorie Taylor Green said
a few weeks ago, do we want to stay together
or do you want to have a nice, peaceful divorce.
I George twelve years ago, would hold town halls when
I was in Congress, and I would say, then before Trump,
(19:38):
I don't know. Our founders gave us a great thing.
But you know what, our founders also thought, every few generations,
you may have to shed some blood if you want
to keep this thing together. So I don't know if
this thing can stay together. What's it going to take? Marriage, counseling,
one last time, therapy, one fucking last time? Uh uh.
(20:01):
And I got a great perspective because I used to
be a dick. I used to be the proverbial political
asshole seven or eight years ago. Well, you and I
might have agreed on a lot, but if you and
I disagreed, I'd have been an absolute jerk in a
conversation like this. I went to DC to go to war.
Anybody who disagreed with me get out of my fucking way.
(20:21):
I woke up, I saw the light, and I realized
that wasn't helping. So now I'm trying to help heal
the divide. But it comes to do what you and
I are doing here. Most most Americans don't do this,
you said it. We all live in our bubbles. We
talk to people who think like us until we can
get to a point where you and I disagree, but
I don't want you dead or I don't want you
(20:43):
destroyed exactly, then we're done. And right now we're at
that point. Our politics incentivizes us to be there. Media
and social media drive us there, but ultimately it's on us, George,
to turn it around.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You know, it's ridiculous, Joe's if you think about this
as human beings, just just our our experiences, how we're
how we live, brought up, our environment, everything is always
going to have an influence on us and how we
see things. We're always gonna have differences, but they shouldn't
be to the point where we have to pick a
side like so hard right hard left. Like to me,
(21:19):
that's just ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense to me,
because now it's like the people are now calling, you know,
up on the rooftops, shouting down at the crowd, saying no,
you have to pick aside. It's either us or them,
and we're back to this us or them mentality, which
is which is bullshit. Now I'm going to ask you
this And if you don't want to talk about it, fine,
because you've made a lot of comments about what happened
(21:41):
regarding Charlie Kirk. I don't want to go too deep
in the actual act. We all saw it. But what
I want to what I want to get into is
what I was surprised by. I thought that act, as
horrendous as it was, what I brought America together, but
it just really divided us more. What are your thoughts
on that, Joe? Why why did we separate and become
(22:02):
more I mean more nasty and more like enemies than
actual brothers and sisters and just saying, damn, that was wrong.
I don't know how we got here. We need to
get our shit together. What do you think of the
situation after that event?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So I one hundred percent blame Trump and the right
for this? Okay, by fire and then let me say,
and then fire back at me. Sure I knew Charlie kirkwell,
he was like a political son to me. We were
tied at the hip for years. Then we went our
separate ways when Trump came along. But just horrible, horrible,
(22:42):
But think about that. For just to sec George, this
major maga influencer is assassinated in cold blood because of
what he believed. It was a political act of violence. Yes,
president of the United States would have gone on TV
(23:06):
that night and looked at the fucking TV camera and said, country, chill,
a timeout for everybody. Political violence is wrong, whether it's
coming from the left or the right, stand down. We
gotta quit hating on each other. We gotta come together.
Bob a bye, unified, bring us together, George. Any president,
(23:32):
George W Bush, Obobba, you name it, Reagan, Jimmy Carter
would have done that. Trump goes in front of the
camera and he picks aside. He went in front of
the camera that night on TV and he attacked the left.
By the way, before we knew anything about the shooter.
But he he didn't. He he came out and he
(23:54):
did what he always does. I'm the president, he said,
of this half of the country again, he's a despicable
human being. The second thing, George is and maybe you
disagree with me here, I most of my former friends
(24:14):
and colleagues on the right, I believe they want a
religious holy war. And the minute Charlie was assassinated, they
right away said they did it. They did it. War
on the left, War on the left, time for a
holy war? Were good? They're evil right away. They went
down that road instead of some twenty two year old
(24:36):
guy did this. And I think I've had enough conversations
with them over the years. They want this good versus
evil kind of battle the right does.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I don't disagree with you on how Trump addressed the
situation at all. You know, as a president, that was
the opportunity to keep people together and keep the country
on track. Uh as far as everything else you said,
I'm not saying you're wrong either. You know, everything's a
matter of perspective. I think a lot of people felt
and automatically blamed the shooter for being ultra left, far
(25:12):
left whatever, because up to that point we've we were
already being separated and told to hate each other, and
so when that happened, automatically, it's my team versus your team. Hey,
you took a shot at us, you killed our guy.
It's you, you're, you're, you're to blame. What reality is
(25:32):
and I'm probably wrong. What I see is we both
fed this fire on both sides, and it only because
became a tip for tat type of game that everyone's playing.
Everybody wants to win points. It's like a stay in
power and control, which is bullshit. And the big problem
there is, like you said earlier, is literally the two
party system we have, like we don't have enough representation
and people are forced to be checked into a certain box.
(25:55):
They're being they're being forced to take a side and
position based on the only two damn option they have,
which is creating the situation we're in. So unfortunately, sure,
some of the things they said about the shooter came
out to be true, but correctly what you said is
they should have just identified it as Hey, this guy,
(26:15):
some identified male, twenty two year old whatever, committed this
heinous act. We shouldn't have read into anything until we
had all the details. So, yeah, you know there was
bias there, and yes, they kind of led the crowd
to believe what they wanted to believe regards of whatever
happened later. But we also got to all admit that
we both both sides, is what I'm saying. We both
got us to this point. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, no, I look, this is a both sides problem. Now,
the data is really clear on this. Over the course
of the last thirty years, political violence in this country
by every group that's ever studied, it is mostly a
right wing problem. The data is overwhelming this year. We're
(26:59):
in twenty twenty five by most data. Most is the
first year and thirty years where left wing violence exceeds
right wing violence. But like when Charlie was assassinated, there
were idiots on the left who celebrated it. Yeah, but
(27:20):
but I was surprised. George Damn near every Democrat said
the right thing. And I found then the people on
the right using his assassination as a call for war
against the left. I found that to be WAI scarier
(27:44):
than a bunch of nuts celebrating it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I don't know if it was a call for war,
But what I will say is this, I didn't appreciate
Charlie's memorial being turned into a ten hour rally, which
is what it really was. I mean, they didn't celebrate
him as much as you would think. It was really
a Christian concert, a Christian sermon, and then it turned
(28:08):
into a WWE event. And I've said this with other
people who are conservative because and even other people who
are conservative or Republicans agree with me, because you know,
I look at Erica, his wife, and I'm thinking, I
don't believe this is what she wanted. I think she
was pressured into that event the way it came out personally,
I don't know her, but the way it looks from
(28:30):
the outside, you know, from the outside looking in, it
was very strange that they would take this as an
opportunity to turn it into a rally when it really
should have just been a celebration and a remembrance.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Agreed a spot on George. And again you may disagree
with me, I agree with what you just said, but
I think the reason for that was this has been
a real catalyst in the rights Christian nationalist movement. Explain
that for him, because this has really let them on fire,
and they used this horrible act to advance kind of
(29:04):
their cause. That I mean, look at the reaction to
the the initial reaction right out of the gate to
the the guy who drove the chuck into that Mormon
church in Michigan started firing us right away. The right said,
another attack on Christianity. Turns out the guy's probably a
Trump supporter who had a thing he was pissed in,
like Mormonism. But but again it's it's reflexively this is
(29:29):
a war against Christianity. We got to stop that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I don't know if the guy was a Trump supporter
in terms of the attack on the Mormon Church, but uh,
what what what I what I can say is you're right.
You know, we do jump to conclusions way too quickly, and.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
We all do it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, we really right.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
When there's a mass shooting, half the country praise, it's
a Muslim, half the country praying praise. It's a white supremacist,
damn near everybody does it.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah. I don't disagree with you, so as far as
as far as that goes, though, it's like, explain to
me more of what this is about. Everybody's saying it's
all about Christian nationalism. I mean, we've heard this before,
but it's really been ramping up. Is there truth? Is
there really teeth behind this? Or I mean, what's your
(30:16):
thoughts on that? Like why is this being called Christian nationalism?
Because I don't know if it really represents everybody? And again,
sometimes people just get on the bandwagon because they believe
that's where their group is going, right, Yeah, So can
you help me define or understand that more because I'm
trying to understand why everybody is labeling this all as
Christian nationalism.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's the belief that instead of a secular country like
what we have now, where religion in this state are
separate and you're free to exercise your religion and be whatever,
there's a movement called Christian nationalism that wants America to
(31:00):
be officially designated a Christian nation, not indifferent than many
of the Islamists nations that are out there in the
Middle East. It's anathma to what America is right most
any reasonable person could and should say that. I would
argue that this is a really powerful animating force within MAGA,
(31:24):
and I would argue that MAGA is the major animating
force in the Republican Party. The vast majority of the
Christian evangelical movement is either Christian nationalist or adjacent. I'm
Christian born and raised Roman Catholic. I don't want America
to be a fucking Christian nation, Muslim nation anything. I
(31:47):
want it to be a free nation. But Charlie Kirk
was a Christian nationalist. Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House,
has publicly spoken to this. Whereas when I was in Congress,
a number of my Republican colleagues would privately talk about this,
never dare say it publicly. They've gained in strength and
(32:12):
encourage over the years, so now they openly talk about it.
They want to go back to when America was mostly
a white Christian nation. Blah blah blah. To me, it's scary.
It's because it's antithetical to what America should be. But
I think it's a really powerful force in today's Republican Party. JD.
Vance subscribes to this.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Well, the reason I ask you that is because in
my conversations with people that I know and other guests,
most people were even conservative don't see it that way
or don't believe that for example. And I'm not saying
it's not there. That's why I asked you to define it,
because I personally I don't see it. But maybe I'm
just blind, maybe or I'm not looking for it. I
(32:55):
have no idea. And when it came to Charlie, I'll
be honest. I respected him. I watched someone his videos
and his debates, but I wasn't like a diehard. I
watched everything he did. So maybe I'm a bit out
of out of the loop in terms of where all
of this started. And why it's now a Christian nationalist movement.
I've always heard it, I believe me. I've always heard
it was there, but it's like it's ramping up right,
(33:17):
and the rhetoric is there. But the people I know,
the people I talk to you do not subscribe to
this needing to be a mostly white Christian nation. I
know that people think that we need to return to
family values, and some of those principles are most of
them are based on Christian values. So that I've heard,
and we also got to we also got to look
(33:38):
at the fact that people are feeling marginalized. Like the
other way now, a lot of white people are feeling
that way because they feel that they're being attacked. They're
they're the ones who are told that they should be
guilty about existing for being white. I'm just throwing the
other argument out there, Jo and I'm not saying that's
what I believe, but I'm just this is way people
are feeling, and this is what I've been told.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
George. I think I'm pure numbers wise, You're right.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
In all the data I've looked at, Christian nationalists are
maybe twenty to twenty five percent of the Republican Party vote.
It's the bulk of the evangelical vote. The evangelical vote
is the heart of the base, but it's not the
entire evangelical vote. I think they're gaining in strength, and
(34:30):
I think it's something to really be concerned about. You know,
I said earlier that I was Tea Party. I'm still
Tea Party. Tea Party became MAGA. I left. What's the difference? Like,
I'm Tea Party because I believe in freedom, and yeah,
I don't like the left and and I don't like
the Left using government to kind of give us their
(34:52):
version of America. But my answer to that is just
limit government, downsize government. MAGA is all about using government
to give us their America. So MAGA is a very
pro government, expansive government kind of thing because they've got
their view on what America should be. And look like
(35:15):
I oppose both of those visions. Keep government out of
my life, agreed.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So let we're I know I don't have you for
a lot longer here, So I want to touch on
this since since you've come over to the Democrat Party,
and I know that you guys have differences between you
and the Democrat party in terms of your core beliefs.
I've heard some of your other interviews and I can
see where there's there's not I wouldn't say tension, but
they could say, well, I don't quite agree with you,
(35:42):
but they want to hear you out at least, which
is good. You're getting them to talk as well, regardless
of however you want to characterize yourself or labor yourself
in terms of party. They're open to listening to you
because you came from the other side. You got a
lot of experience. I mean, hell, we can't not deny
who you are. So how's that going in terms of
(36:02):
acceptance in terms of when you have to have those
tough conversations about your core principle beliefs and what they believe.
Can you give us a little background insight into what
you were experiencing with that, George.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
It hadn't been easy. It's been about three and a
half months. I can generally say that the Democratic grass
roots has embraced me, and they've generally said, Joe, you
were that crazy Tea party guy. Disagree with you on
guns and Israel whatever, but man, this is all about
(36:36):
defending democracy. We're all in this together. The Democratic Party
establishment has been much more standoffish, like, look, I think
the party is struggling to figure out what to do
because and maybe again, maybe you disagree with me. I
think Donald Trump's one of the worst human beings that
(36:56):
ever lived, but the Democrats lost to him. So if
that doesn't tell you that Democrats have real fucking issues.
So they're trying to figure out. George and my conversations
with them, do we go further harder left and energize
the left, or do we follow Joe Walsh and let's
have a big tent party and give me some people
(37:17):
in the middle, moderate and conservative Dems. They don't know
which way to go, so they're feeling me out. Like
a lot of people be switched parties to run for office.
People ass me all the time, are you gonna run?
My answer is I'd love to run again, but I
didn't become a Democrat to run like I don't think
(37:37):
I could win a Democratic primary right now. I'm not
lefty enough right So it's been a real mixed bag.
No regrets though.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What you said earlier though about them trying to figure
it out and maybe lean harder left, I mean, how
much further they want to go, and that's what lost
them their position in the first place. That's what got
them here.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
You know what they say, George, You know what they
say because that's generally I agree with you. That's my thought.
What do you mean further left? And the answer they
give me is Joe fucking a. Look what the Republican
Party did. They went with Trump and they went as
far right as you can go, and they're winning.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I mean, Trump's an exception though.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, Trump's not really a real Republican though he really
I never claimed to be. He was an opportunitist, I believe,
you know, and he was able to step in where
people like you said, we're looking for a disruptor and
looking for change. I think what you're trying to do,
from what I'm hearing and what i've heard you speak of,
by the way, on other shows, is I think you're
(38:40):
just trying to help the Democrats become a common sense party.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's what I'm hearing. And let's be honest. You know
a lot of people from my like I'm a gen xer,
right on the tail end, I guess, but a lot
of people from my generation, we were more liberal back
in the day, and they became a totally different party,
and everybody else I know that's of my generation is
pretty much shifted conservative. But even now we're like, we're conservative,
(39:06):
but I mean, we're not necessarily on board with where
it's going right now, at least the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Oh my god, George, you're so fucking spot on. Like
I wrote an article three years ago calling for a
new political party and I called it the common sense, tolerant,
get shit done party. Like picking issue, any issue, a transgenderism, Okay,
(39:33):
my party on transgenderism, what should it be? My god,
I be free identify however you want to identify. Baby,
it's your life, your call, your decision. We shouldn't discriminate
against you, gay, straight, transgender. When it comes to transgender
men in women's sports, time out, competition's got to be fair,
(39:54):
right when it comes to transgender men in women's bathrooms,
respect the privacy rights of both sides, but generally embrace
transgender Americans. Live your life, and let's not discriminate against you.
To me, that's that's the common sense platform for transgender Americans.
And I could go down issue by issue. Neither party
(40:16):
is there by the way.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I think I'm not going to get too deep in
the transgender thing. But you know, everyone I know, at
least that I know, agrees with that, like, we don't care.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't care you.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
You know. The only thing that we've ever said, me
and people I know, I say we, but I'm just
specifically my people is we don't believe it should be
force taught or exposed to children that are like first grade. Second,
I think you got to let the mind develop first.
They're not in a position yet to make those type
of decisions. You don't. You know, they're very malleable, They're
(40:49):
very their minds are easily shaped right and influenced. Look,
if you're going through high school whatever, you kind of
already know where you're going to go in life and
what you are when you become an adult. Nobody I
do not care. Do what you gotta do. I just
I just don't agree with it being pushed on children
who don't even know themselves what toilet.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Agreed with, agreed that that would be part of the
common sense agenda on transgenderism. And again, I seed a
lot to parental rights. If if if I were a
parent and I had a first grader, a little first
grade boy. You thought he was a girl. I mean,
I think I know how i'd feel as a dad,
(41:28):
But it's up to that mom and dad to handle
their first grade boy how they want, you know, whatever.
But I certainly don't want schools and other people forcing
shit down there.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
That's a good point. We did get away from letting
parents be parents. Yeah, And I don't even know when
that started how, I don't, at least I don't remember anyway. Uh,
what do you what do you think about the states lately?
And California has been bad on this by the ways
where I live, trying to step in and get between
(41:57):
the family unit, the the parents and the child, and
now the school speak for the parent, and then the
state steps in and starts to say no, no, no, no, no,
you can't do it that way because the state supersedes
your right to parent your child. I know I might
be sounding a stream, but I'm just trying.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
To no, no, George, I'm with you, brother. That's this
is where I've always been right there with you. And
this has always typically been the province of the left
interfering with parental rights. I'm a big school choice person.
I think a parent should decide whether their kid goes
to school, and the taxpayer money should follow it. But
(42:34):
what's what But what's also what's weird now is we've
got the MAGA right trying to do the same thing.
Uh super seded that that that you can't parents can't
turn their kids into transgenders in first, second or third grade.
(42:55):
Stay out of it, no matter what the issue is,
stay out of it. The schools out of it. I
don't hear people except in the middle arguing that position
like MAGA thinks of transgenderism. A bunch of the biggest
MAGA media voices believe that it should be eliminated from
(43:19):
the public square. There should be it shouldn't exist, or
it's a mental illness. I don't think that's where most
Americans are.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Well, here's the thing about this transgenderism. It's always been
a minority of people who literally, deep inside, felt they
were another sex. Right. What is appalling, though, I'm going
to say it is we've never seen it lately like
now as it used to be, to where all of
a sudden, it's almost seems like it's just a thing
(43:50):
to do. It's like a trend, and people are making
these decisions and then regretting them later. But I'm not
taken away from the person who truly knows inside who
they really are. By the way, I am very cautious
about how it has been turned into almost a weapon
to divide people, unfortunately, because how can we sit here
(44:12):
and not acknowledge the upward trend of more and more
people deciding all of a sudden they're trans versus It
used to be like, I don't know, less than three
percent of people that would actually say, yeah, no, you
can identify.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
You're right. And George, I guess what this speaks to
is Trump is an overreaction on almost any issue to
how the left overreacted on every issue. So the left
took this issue and tended to shove it in our faces.
Accept it, and it was everywhere and anybody can be it.
(44:50):
Accept it, accept it. And Middle America a lot of
us kind of recoiled against that. What do you mean?
What do you mean? We got thirty different genders, what
are you talking about? Shut something down our throat, and
a lot of that then helped elect Trump, who now
is taking it in the other extreme.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
On almost any exactly, and it's it's it dangerous I'm
not saying. I'm not saying transit dangerous. What I'm saying
is the idea of pushing a narrative the way they
are as dangerous because that could be applied to anything, right,
and how they're trying to shove it down everyone's throats,
and it's it's like, it's maybe I'm not a conspiracy guy,
but it's really starting to look very planned.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It's like George, it's like the issue of immigration, right,
So Democrats ignored the issue, welcomed people in illegally, opened
up the borders, didn't do didn't defend the borders. So
long comes Trump and says, I'm gonna I'm gonna defend
the border by bother eating cats and dogs and all
the rest. So now look at what Trump's doing. He's
(45:51):
taken it to an ugly, Unamerican dark place where he's
deporting people without due process who are not criminals. And
most of America is in neither one of those places.
Most of America says, if you're a fucking violent criminal
and you're in this country illegally, get that hell out.
If you're a day laborer who's been in this country
for twenty years, excuse me. That's different. This is you're
(46:15):
part of a broken system. If you were brought here
as a kid, Okay, there's got to be a solution
intented instead of deporting you to another country without any
due process. So now we're living the other extreme on immigration.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So what we're seeing are both overcorrections and overreactions. Bingo, yeah,
ins of in terms of immigration, I'm going to just
touch on the agricultural worker. Right. The unfortunate situation I've
seen in most cases is they I don't agree they
should be targeting, but the loophole of scenes that's being
(46:47):
used is they are generally part of the H two
A visa program. Okay, when these raids happen and they
do catch these people, don't I don't think it's right
what they're doing. They should give them an opportunity. But
most of the people they have caught are people that
were not part of that system. And it's not their fault.
It's the employer who certain invented the H two A
(47:09):
system because they didn't want to pay the fees or
the wage or whatever it was, so that they can
basically get the worker for substandard wages. They didn't have
to house them they didn't have to drive them back
and forth to the farms. I think the farmers, not
farm America, not all farmers. By the way, I'm just saying,
let's just say employers. Let me change it. I think
the employers who are circumventing this program are the ones
(47:31):
that need to be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
So, George Bingo, you and I are on the same page.
So instead of these folks, deport the employers who are
circumventing our immigration system, and deport the politicians who created
this fucked up immigration system.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
It sounds like you and I agree that people who
have been here, and I know there's going to be
people who have a hard stand and say, while they
broke the laws, screw them, send them back. I think
it's easy to determine a good person versus a bad
per in this case, if they don't have a record,
they've been here, they've been contributing, they have a family,
it's very easy to investigate and say, well, look, you
broke the law, you got one on us. Here's what's
(48:09):
going to happen. You're going to have this opportunity, You're
going to have this much time to get it right,
and then you give them the deadline them give them
a chance.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, because a big part of the problem. And again
I'm a small government guy, but this takes government resources.
You come to this country claiming asylum, that's a legal process, yes,
but my fucking god, it takes way too long to
adjudicate that process. You come here claiming asylum, your case
(48:38):
should be adjudicated within weeks. Now it's years. So that's
got a change because and Trump did this, Every president
does this. These people are giving a little slip of paper,
your court data is in nine months, come back, and
they're off in the interior of the country, many never
to be heard from again.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Right, that is the problem. And I think part of
the solution I was I was offering and giving them
the opportunity would be bypassing that absorbive amount of time
to get anything done, Like we should fast track this,
give them that opportunity. Their deadline definitely shouldn't be nine
months down the road, because again, you're giving the person
(49:19):
either the opportunity to do something wrong or you're just
leaving them in limbo. And then you're building a case
on them based on something that you said they can do.
Go whitch is stupid.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
And then and then yeah, so then Ice is actually
grabbing people in courthouses as they show up.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
For I don't agree with that at Yeah, all that listen.
I agree. I agree with keeping our border safe. I
agree in enforcing policies and laws that are in place.
But if someone is going out of the way to
actually go to court to go through a hearing, amen,
like they're already going through the process at the point
they're already saying, oh, I'm asked, Sure, okay, I'm showing up.
We'd go do what I have to do and do
(49:58):
it the right way. I don't believe that's where you
start snatching people. Man, you should be doing that before
it even gets there.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Bingo.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Anyway, that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I agree George totally.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I'm gonna start wrapping up because I know you have
like a heart out.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Look, I gotta do my least favorite thing, George. I
gotta go on TV and yell about Trump. I hate.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Oh well, look, I wish the Democrat Party look uh,
and I'm gonna need it. I hope they learn from you.
I just I just look. All I'm hearing from you
is you want common sense. You're advocating for a common
sense party. But you definitely don't like Trump because he
has steered the Republican Party away from where it used
to be. So I absolutely understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Let me correct you just slightly. Okay, you're right, I've
I've evolved, and I want common sense centrist solutions.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I oppose Trump and then his party because it is
his party, because I literally believe he's an American. Like
here's where I am, George. He lost an election and
refused to accept the result. As far as I'm concerned,
(51:14):
he should have been shipped to Siberia. Once we've look,
I've run for office and I've won and lost. Man,
the will of the people. The people speak every two
years and every four years, and you work your ass
off to try to win, but win or lose, you
accept what the people said. Donald Trump's the only person
in American history presidential candidate who refused to do that.
(51:36):
Now you may disagree with me. Then he committed crimes
trying to overthrow an American election. I think this guy
is an utter traitor to this country. Like defending democracy,
I believe it's like teetering. That's way more important than
any issue to me. That you and I are talking
about right now.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I think there's a lot more nuanced in those situations
that it's gonna take a lot more time for you
and I to go through. My intent is not to
have an argument with you. My intent is to hear
you out man, and because I think that's important really,
rather than just having a back and forth argument. So
as far as Trump goes, it doesn't what happens, I
(52:17):
will say this, I agree. Look except the results. If
you have grievances proven in court, that's what should have happened.
That's not what happened. As far as JA six goes,
I have my opinions, but we can talk about that
another day. For now, I'm gonna say this, I think
you should run. Why not Joe Walsh for twenty twenty eight?
You make sense regardless if you're with the Democrat Party
(52:39):
or not. You're I think you're coming from a perspective
that really does represent more of how people feel right now.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So I'm not gonna bullshit. Yeah, I'm thinking about it.
I could never run as run as a Republican because
I could never win a Republican primary, obviously. I I
I've thought about it. As a Democrat. I don't know
that the Democratic Party is going to move in my direction.
(53:07):
I'd love this. If I had a gazillion dollars, I'd
run as a well funded independent because I think you're
right that most Americans are where I am you and
I are.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I think so. Well, Look, put your hat in the
ring anyway, because worst case, regardless, I think you'll get
people thinking, and I think you would be that disrupt
that people.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
Need agree totally agree.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
All right, sir, I'm gonna let you go because it
is that time for you. Love to have you back,
and please let's stay in touch and appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Do me a favorite. All you do is asked.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I'll come back, no worries. I appreciate it. Thank you, Joe, Thank.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
George cot Field. Detention Devils behind redemption unstans one do
(54:01):
do do Do Do
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Do
Welcome world to Believes listeners, and I have a special guest,
Joe Walsh, former congressman. As you've said, from Tea Party
to Democrat Party, I'm glad you're here, by the way,
because I think you're the person to talk to given
the state of America right now and what's been happening,
and given your experience. I've heard you plenty of times.
(00:27):
I've heard your own podcast, you know, talking about renewing
our social contract. I've heard you as a guest on
other people's podcasts. I've heard you on Piers Morgan, and
I got to say that on your own show, you're
extremely fiery, but you're also very respectful when you're a
guest on other people's shows, which says a lot about
your maturity, by the way, as a person, and being
able to talk about things that even you don't agree with,
(00:49):
which is awesome. So Joe, let me start here, and
I know you're probably tired of saying this, but let's
get a little background real quick, because you've explained it
many times, but my audience may not have heard it.
Why why did you go to the Democrat side? What
was your journey that led you there? And with that
being said, given your experience and why you went to
the Democrat Party, also give me a little bit of
(01:12):
insight and how you're seeing America today.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, and George, by the way, great to be with you,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Look, I could be wrong, I could be an idiot.
I could be way off base. I think my former
political party is an authoritarian embracing cult. I believe it's
a real fucking threat to this country we all love.
So when Trump won last November, and I've been an
(01:44):
independent for five years, I left the Republican Party after
my crazy Republican primary challenge to Trump. But after Trump
won in November last November, I realized that I got
to try to do more to defeat my former political party.
I may not be a Democrat on most of the
(02:06):
policy issues, but the Democratic Party needs to get their
fucking act together. And so I thought if I could
jump in and be part of the party and help
them get their act together, like I didn't want to.
I spend a lot of my time going on CNN
and MSNBC and yelling about Trump, and I write about Trump.
I don't want to fucking do the next four years
doing that I don't want to be a commentator. I
(02:28):
want to be in the political fight. We've got two parties.
That party right there, my new party is the only
thing that can beat my former party. So I thought
if I could get in and help that party become
a bigger tent because I'm no hardcore progressive as you know,
and help that party learn how to fucking fight and
(02:48):
maybe help others like me become Democrats now, then we
could better help defeat Trump and what my former party is.
That's that's principally why I did it. Otherwise I just
would have stayed a homeless independent.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I think you represent a lot of people, even people
as that consider themselves still conservative, don't necessarily feel fully
aligned with the Republican Party. I myself, I am kind
of shifting that way, and I'm a conservative by the way,
but at the same time, I'm not sure where we're going.
Can I ask you this, Have you seen the Republican
(03:27):
Party in general on this path before Trump? Or did
it all start with Trump as president in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No, it's a great question, George, and I've said repeatedly,
you know what I think about Trump?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard start this.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
The countries at each other's throats were dangerously divided. Our
fucking politics sucks. Our political system is broken. I was
saying that when I was in Congress twelve years ago,
way before Trump. So Trump's a response to that. I mean,
if you think about it, only a really broken political
(04:04):
system could elect somebody as horrible as that. So, I mean,
he's made everything worse, and he's made us more divisive.
He's increasing the divide and the hate and all of that.
But no, he's the He's the ugly product of a
broken political system. When I was part of the Tea
Party many moons ago, I could see that that that maga,
(04:30):
what you know, the Tea Party became maga and that's
when I got off the train. But I could see
those threads there. And when the Tea Party, when we
didn't deliver, then people, those folks got pissed off and
they turned to Trump and he tapped into that anger.
But yeah, I could see it brewing for a while.
(04:50):
I wish I'd done more to address it early.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I think I think you're right about Trump, Like when
he came on the scene, I believe it was already
headed that way. And what made him popular is he
was kind of saying what people were thinking. But you know,
here we are now and people are starting to question
his solutions. I like some of the stuff he's done.
I'm not on board with everything, though, I mean, you know,
I do think so's It's like he represents a certain
(05:17):
part of America right now on how they feel. But
even people who voted him in are starting to say, Okay,
where's this train going? Like what is happening? Can I
ask you this, Joe, from your experience, what do you
think was broken? Like I want, can you define that?
Or is it too complex to really put your thumb
on it?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, No, George, that's a good question, man, And understand
like I don't know anybody. Maybe you do. I don't
know anybody who's taken the same road I took. Like
I come from the Tea Party and now I'm a Democrat.
I come from the MAGA base. You know, most of
(05:57):
the never Trumpers who you and I know, they were ryaning,
they were moderate, squishy Republicans to begin with. I used
to fight those guys. I'm like the only never Trumper
who literally comes from the Maga bass. So I understood
why my voters, my supporters, my audience embraced that guy
(06:20):
because he was an outsider and he promised disruption. Fuck
I wanted disruption when I went to DC as part
of the Tea Party wave, I was a disruptor. I
think both political parties suck. I've been saying this for
a long time. I wish we had three parties, four parties,
five parties. I think the way we vote is fucked up.
(06:42):
Jerry Mandering sucks. We've got elites, elites in the media,
and elites in the political establishment who've forgotten about regular people.
All of that that Trump tapped into was this shit
I was talking about before Trump, and so if I
saw the need for Trump, I voted for Trump in
twenty sixteen. I didn't pay enough attention to him. I
(07:05):
really didn't. I didn't take him seriously. But I voted
for him because my people voted for him, and I
knew why they voted for him, because they wanted somebody
to blow it up, tear it down, drain the swamp.
All of that, our politics was no longer meeting the
needs of regular folk. Now, disruption, George, I think is good.
(07:28):
You probably think it's good. I think you know, business
needs disruptions, politics needs disruption regularly. So I'm a disruptor.
But there are good disruptors and bad disruptors. It turns
out Trump's an evil disruptor. Like I get, I know
why people support him, but you got a guy who
(07:49):
lies every fucking time he opens his mouth, and I
could go on and on and on, so eventually he's
just a bad disruptor, but they clung to him.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Do you disagree with everything that Trump has done?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Though?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I'm not trying to make that a loaded questions, but
just you know.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Now, you know what, George, that's a great that's a
great question that nobody's asked me in really. Yeah. People
would ask me that question like up until the twenty
twenty election, and then they'd stop. Yeah, and I'm trying
to think I haven't thought about that in a while. Yeah,
obviously that's a really good question when you look at
(08:33):
policy shit he's done. And I don't know where you
are politically. I'm generally kind of a free market libertarian,
keep the government out of my life kind of guy. Right,
That's what I am, which is why I was always
a Republican, because I always believe the Republicans generally stood
for a more limited government.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
At least that was why, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
The Democrats obviously didn't. They liked the bigger government. Would argue,
now what this Republican party has become. It's a big
government party on the right. So now we've got a
big government party on the left and a big government
party on the right. But they're sure there's shit Trump's
done that I would support. I'm off the charts pro Israel.
(09:17):
I don't think Trump really gives a fuck about Israel,
but he's he's acting more pro Israel. Support that. Anytime
I can cut anybody's taxes, I support cutting taxes. Trump
got rid of a bunch of regulations in his first term,
all about that onerous government ranks. So there is some
stuff clearly for someone like me, though it ain't about policy, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So I'm gonna steer this away from Trump here in
a minute, because I don't want to make him the
focal point. I mean, everybody talks about her every day.
But let me ask you this. I'm agreeing with you
a lot on what you said in terms of some
of the stuff, right, I think everybody can say that
he made sense. Some areas. There's some things that made
a lot of sense, but where I think he's failing personally.
And I you know, when I first started, a lot
(10:06):
of ever really just pegging me for Promaga all the time. Now, yes,
I voted for Trump also, but I also have a
right to question where things are going, because you know,
at some point you got to call it in right
his foreign policy, I don't know what you think, but
in my mind, I don't think he knows what he's
doing anymore. I mean he has okay, he hasn't taken
(10:28):
a hard stand on anything. He flip flops all the time.
And I know we don't want any wars, but at
the same time, we're not We're not taking a position
of strength militarily, even if it is just a threat.
And so he says one thing, people just waited out
because they know he's not going to do anything, and
they just go back to whatever the hell they want
to do. What do you think the future is for
America geopolitically right now? Given his policy? Do you think
(10:53):
he will probably turn it around as time goes on,
or does he just not give a fuck anymore because
he knows this is his last term.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, George, I will say that unlike you and I
and I don't know you and you don't know me.
But I'm going to guess George that you like, you've
got a philosophical core, you know, kind of like the
shit you believe in. I do, most of us do.
Trump doesn't. I mean, let's just be real. Trump's just
a vehicle. Trump doesn't care about anything but Trump. He's
(11:21):
one hundred percent transactional. So so he George. He could
have run in twenty sixteen as a Democrat, as a
populis disruptive democrat. There's no philosophical core to him. I'm
foreign policy. I've always been kind of the opposite of
a Neocon. I don't want American troops everywhere. I don't
(11:43):
want to be nation building and fighting wars. Trump like
has given lip service to that over the years. Again,
I don't think he believes in it because, as you said,
he's all over the map. There's no consistency. Look, you
want to get us out of NATO and you don't
give a fuck about Europe, then forget about Ukraine. I
(12:05):
mean again, I don't want American troops on the ground,
but Russia putin invade Ukraine. We're part of NATO, damn it.
We should do whatever we can to help Ukraine defend itself.
I tend to believe that Trump really likes Putin and
that's why he's doing what he's doing there. But no,
there's no core that drives him. The one stupid policy
(12:27):
he seems to have always believed in is tariffs. Again,
I think he's an idiot. I don't think he understands
but that he's gonna stick stubbornly with his tariffs probably forever.
Everything else though, he's just given lip service. And the
(12:48):
people around him are very much and I know a
lot of the people around him, they're very much hardcore nationalists,
Like they want to build a fucking wall around America
and keep people out. They want America to be a
Christian country again, and so he Trump doesn't care about
(13:08):
any of that, but he's letting them dictate a lot.
I don't George last thing. I'll say, like, I'm a
free market, free trade Republican from way back when. Maybe
the Republican Party was never that, but I don't think
that Republican Party's ever coming back. I think it's the
Maga Party. I'm older than you for the rest of
(13:31):
my life.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So let's define that difference real quickly between a fenced
off America versus one that is not necessarily open border
but allows for actual immigration of people who are qualified
to be immigrants into the United States. Yeah, do you
want to define that a bit?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah. And by the way, George, I love this issue
and this issue. If there's like one issue, especially last
time in twenty four that really got them elected, it
would be the issue of immigration. Because Democrats have utterly
fucked up the issue of immigration. So and I guess
one of the ways to kind of crystallize it is,
(14:17):
I'm a defend the fucking border. Nobody can come in
this country illegally. Defend the fucking border. But damn it
make it easier for people to come here legally. It
shouldn't cost so much money, it shouldn't take so much time.
I'm George, I'm one of these guys who I want
(14:39):
to open my arms up to legal immigration, Like I
want America to be that shining city on the hill
where white, black, or brown, fucking a you want to
come to America for freedom and opportunity, We welcome you, Muslim, jew, Christian,
I don't care what you are. You want freedom, come on.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, But I think any rational here legally, yeah, any
rational person would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Stop you would, George. Today's Republican Party wants to limit
legal immigration as well. They and it animates a lot
of what Trump's doing, like get rid of these people
on student visas, to port all these people who are
here claiming asylum. Americans will do these jobs. Today's Republican
(15:25):
Party is anti illegal and legal immigration. I think.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You, let's hope you're wrong. I mean, my perspective is
I am like you. I agree in legal immigration. I
agreely do need to make it easier. I have friends
who've gone through the process that took them years, like
just just the hoops that guy jumped through. And I
also believe though America felt this way, and maybe it
(15:53):
was just messaging a narrative that made America feel this way,
as in, you know, we got too many people here
taking our jobs, too many people taking our sources, et cetera.
And so that's I think that's what got us here.
But I don't know if anyone, like if they really
took a step back and thought about it. I'm not
sure if that's really what they believe at their core,
because at some point all of us has an immigrant
relative from somewhere like my dad's half Portuguese. His family
(16:15):
came here, you know, from overseas. Most people I know have,
So I hope you will just put that way.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
No, George, and again, no wronger right here. You could
be close to the right. It's just my read of
today's party is the animating legislation, Tom Cotton and others
putting forward legislation to put real hard limits on legal
immigration until all of America is employed and shit like that.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Which is not really that's blooney. Yeah, that's not really right.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And here's the other thing I'd say, George, like, I
can't I understand that Democrats suck on this issue, and
so Trump then comes in and now he's doing this ugly,
cruel American shit when it comes to deporting people, right,
deporting day labors and grandmothers. What pisses me off is
(17:09):
politicians and the big business community created this broken immigration system.
They're the ones who created this, I mean, incentivized people
to come here. Fuck them. We created this broken system
and people come here taking advantage of the broken system
for a better life. And we're going to deport them
like politicians haven't had the guts to really address this
(17:31):
issue for years.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, you're right, we did create our own We did
actually create this situation.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, and it's not fair to penalize.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
No, it isn't. So let's let's move on to America
right now. Okay, you said it. We're at each other's throats.
We're fighting for no reason, Like we're looking at our
neighbors and starting to question question whether or not we
should like be friends or enemies. And I'm really concerned
with all the rhetoric about trying to push us towards
(18:00):
a civil war. You see the memes, you see all
the bullshit out there, which I think we're going to
hopefully be smart enough to never get there. But the
idea of you looking at your neighbor and wondering whether
or not you should shoo him the head because he's on
the other side, it's just a bunch of bullshit in that.
But that's the messaging being pushed, Like how do we
get past that in your mind? Because the idea of
having discussions like you and I are having. Okay, and
(18:22):
I'll be up front, we may not agree on everything,
But I'm not going to be disrespectful. I'm going to
hear you out because I want to know where you
come from, and then maybe I'll walk away with it's
going well. You know, Joe said some stuff that I
need to think about. That's what we need to be doing.
But how do we get past you know, filtering through
the narratives, the messaging, the social media, all the bullshit
that's that's keeping people trapped into this like bubble of
thought process to where we need to be enemies and
(18:44):
be so hard right and left because I mean, fuck Joe,
we live in the gray most of the time. Let's
just be honest. It's not always black and white. So
what in your mind can we do to move past this?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And George, that will be the most important thing you'll
ask me in our kindnversation, because you know what I
think about Trump and what I think about I don't
care who the president is. If most Americans stay on
this road where we hate the person we disagree with,
then democracy this thing's done.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Period.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I actually think we're at a point where we as
a people have to decide, as Marjorie Taylor Green said
a few weeks ago, do we want to stay together
or do you want to have a nice, peaceful divorce.
I George twelve years ago, would hold town halls when
I was in Congress, and I would say, then before Trump,
(19:38):
I don't know. Our founders gave us a great thing.
But you know what, our founders also thought, every few generations,
you may have to shed some blood if you want
to keep this thing together. So I don't know if
this thing can stay together. What's it going to take? Marriage, counseling,
one last time, therapy, one fucking last time? Uh uh.
(20:01):
And I got a great perspective because I used to
be a dick. I used to be the proverbial political
asshole seven or eight years ago. Well, you and I
might have agreed on a lot, but if you and
I disagreed, I'd have been an absolute jerk in a
conversation like this. I went to DC to go to war.
Anybody who disagreed with me get out of my fucking way.
(20:21):
I woke up, I saw the light, and I realized
that wasn't helping. So now I'm trying to help heal
the divide. But it comes to do what you and
I are doing here. Most most Americans don't do this,
you said it. We all live in our bubbles. We
talk to people who think like us until we can
get to a point where you and I disagree, but
I don't want you dead or I don't want you
(20:43):
destroyed exactly, then we're done. And right now we're at
that point. Our politics incentivizes us to be there. Media
and social media drive us there, but ultimately it's on us, George,
to turn it around.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
You know, it's ridiculous, Joe's if you think about this
as human beings, just just our our experiences, how we're
how we live, brought up, our environment, everything is always
going to have an influence on us and how we
see things. We're always gonna have differences, but they shouldn't
be to the point where we have to pick a
side like so hard right hard left. Like to me,
(21:19):
that's just ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense to me,
because now it's like the people are now calling, you know,
up on the rooftops, shouting down at the crowd, saying no,
you have to pick aside. It's either us or them,
and we're back to this us or them mentality, which
is which is bullshit. Now I'm going to ask you
this And if you don't want to talk about it, fine,
because you've made a lot of comments about what happened
(21:41):
regarding Charlie Kirk. I don't want to go too deep
in the actual act. We all saw it. But what
I want to what I want to get into is
what I was surprised by. I thought that act, as
horrendous as it was, what I brought America together, but
it just really divided us more. What are your thoughts
on that, Joe? Why why did we separate and become
(22:02):
more I mean more nasty and more like enemies than
actual brothers and sisters and just saying, damn, that was wrong.
I don't know how we got here. We need to
get our shit together. What do you think of the
situation after that event?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So I one hundred percent blame Trump and the right
for this? Okay, by fire and then let me say,
and then fire back at me. Sure I knew Charlie kirkwell,
he was like a political son to me. We were
tied at the hip for years. Then we went our
separate ways when Trump came along. But just horrible, horrible,
(22:42):
But think about that. For just to sec George, this
major maga influencer is assassinated in cold blood because of
what he believed. It was a political act of violence. Yes,
president of the United States would have gone on TV
(23:06):
that night and looked at the fucking TV camera and said, country, chill,
a timeout for everybody. Political violence is wrong, whether it's
coming from the left or the right, stand down. We
gotta quit hating on each other. We gotta come together.
Bob a bye, unified, bring us together, George. Any president,
(23:32):
George W Bush, Obobba, you name it, Reagan, Jimmy Carter
would have done that. Trump goes in front of the
camera and he picks aside. He went in front of
the camera that night on TV and he attacked the left.
By the way, before we knew anything about the shooter.
But he he didn't. He he came out and he
(23:54):
did what he always does. I'm the president, he said,
of this half of the country again, he's a despicable
human being. The second thing, George is and maybe you
disagree with me here, I most of my former friends
(24:14):
and colleagues on the right, I believe they want a
religious holy war. And the minute Charlie was assassinated, they
right away said they did it. They did it. War
on the left, War on the left, time for a
holy war? Were good? They're evil right away. They went
down that road instead of some twenty two year old
(24:36):
guy did this. And I think I've had enough conversations
with them over the years. They want this good versus
evil kind of battle the right does.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I don't disagree with you on how Trump addressed the
situation at all. You know, as a president, that was
the opportunity to keep people together and keep the country
on track. Uh as far as everything else you said,
I'm not saying you're wrong either. You know, everything's a
matter of perspective. I think a lot of people felt
and automatically blamed the shooter for being ultra left, far
(25:12):
left whatever, because up to that point we've we were
already being separated and told to hate each other, and
so when that happened, automatically, it's my team versus your team. Hey,
you took a shot at us, you killed our guy.
It's you, you're, you're, you're to blame. What reality is
(25:32):
and I'm probably wrong. What I see is we both
fed this fire on both sides, and it only because
became a tip for tat type of game that everyone's playing.
Everybody wants to win points. It's like a stay in
power and control, which is bullshit. And the big problem
there is, like you said earlier, is literally the two
party system we have, like we don't have enough representation
and people are forced to be checked into a certain box.
(25:55):
They're being they're being forced to take a side and
position based on the only two damn option they have,
which is creating the situation we're in. So unfortunately, sure,
some of the things they said about the shooter came
out to be true, but correctly what you said is
they should have just identified it as Hey, this guy,
(26:15):
some identified male, twenty two year old whatever, committed this
heinous act. We shouldn't have read into anything until we
had all the details. So, yeah, you know there was
bias there, and yes, they kind of led the crowd
to believe what they wanted to believe regards of whatever
happened later. But we also got to all admit that
we both both sides, is what I'm saying. We both
got us to this point. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, no, I look, this is a both sides problem. Now,
the data is really clear on this. Over the course
of the last thirty years, political violence in this country
by every group that's ever studied, it is mostly a
right wing problem. The data is overwhelming this year. We're
(26:59):
in twenty twenty five by most data. Most is the
first year and thirty years where left wing violence exceeds
right wing violence. But like when Charlie was assassinated, there
were idiots on the left who celebrated it. Yeah, but
(27:20):
but I was surprised. George Damn near every Democrat said
the right thing. And I found then the people on
the right using his assassination as a call for war
against the left. I found that to be WAI scarier
(27:44):
than a bunch of nuts celebrating it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I don't know if it was a call for war,
But what I will say is this, I didn't appreciate
Charlie's memorial being turned into a ten hour rally, which
is what it really was. I mean, they didn't celebrate
him as much as you would think. It was really
a Christian concert, a Christian sermon, and then it turned
(28:08):
into a WWE event. And I've said this with other
people who are conservative because and even other people who
are conservative or Republicans agree with me, because you know,
I look at Erica, his wife, and I'm thinking, I
don't believe this is what she wanted. I think she
was pressured into that event the way it came out personally,
I don't know her, but the way it looks from
(28:30):
the outside, you know, from the outside looking in, it
was very strange that they would take this as an
opportunity to turn it into a rally when it really
should have just been a celebration and a remembrance.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Agreed a spot on George. And again you may disagree
with me, I agree with what you just said, but
I think the reason for that was this has been
a real catalyst in the rights Christian nationalist movement. Explain
that for him, because this has really let them on fire,
and they used this horrible act to advance kind of
(29:04):
their cause. That I mean, look at the reaction to
the the initial reaction right out of the gate to
the the guy who drove the chuck into that Mormon
church in Michigan started firing us right away. The right said,
another attack on Christianity. Turns out the guy's probably a
Trump supporter who had a thing he was pissed in,
like Mormonism. But but again it's it's reflexively this is
(29:29):
a war against Christianity. We got to stop that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I don't know if the guy was a Trump supporter
in terms of the attack on the Mormon Church, but uh,
what what what I what I can say is you're right.
You know, we do jump to conclusions way too quickly, and.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
We all do it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, we really right.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
When there's a mass shooting, half the country praise, it's
a Muslim, half the country praying praise. It's a white supremacist,
damn near everybody does it.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah. I don't disagree with you, so as far as
as far as that goes, though, it's like, explain to
me more of what this is about. Everybody's saying it's
all about Christian nationalism. I mean, we've heard this before,
but it's really been ramping up. Is there truth? Is
there really teeth behind this? Or I mean, what's your
(30:16):
thoughts on that? Like why is this being called Christian nationalism?
Because I don't know if it really represents everybody? And again,
sometimes people just get on the bandwagon because they believe
that's where their group is going, right, Yeah, So can
you help me define or understand that more because I'm
trying to understand why everybody is labeling this all as
Christian nationalism.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It's the belief that instead of a secular country like
what we have now, where religion in this state are
separate and you're free to exercise your religion and be whatever,
there's a movement called Christian nationalism that wants America to
(31:00):
be officially designated a Christian nation, not indifferent than many
of the Islamists nations that are out there in the
Middle East. It's anathma to what America is right most
any reasonable person could and should say that. I would
argue that this is a really powerful animating force within MAGA,
(31:24):
and I would argue that MAGA is the major animating
force in the Republican Party. The vast majority of the
Christian evangelical movement is either Christian nationalist or adjacent. I'm
Christian born and raised Roman Catholic. I don't want America
to be a fucking Christian nation, Muslim nation anything. I
(31:47):
want it to be a free nation. But Charlie Kirk
was a Christian nationalist. Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House,
has publicly spoken to this. Whereas when I was in Congress,
a number of my Republican colleagues would privately talk about this,
never dare say it publicly. They've gained in strength and
(32:12):
encourage over the years, so now they openly talk about it.
They want to go back to when America was mostly
a white Christian nation. Blah blah blah. To me, it's scary.
It's because it's antithetical to what America should be. But
I think it's a really powerful force in today's Republican Party. JD.
Vance subscribes to this.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Well, the reason I ask you that is because in
my conversations with people that I know and other guests,
most people were even conservative don't see it that way
or don't believe that for example. And I'm not saying
it's not there. That's why I asked you to define it,
because I personally I don't see it. But maybe I'm
just blind, maybe or I'm not looking for it. I
(32:55):
have no idea. And when it came to Charlie, I'll
be honest. I respected him. I watched someone his videos
and his debates, but I wasn't like a diehard. I
watched everything he did. So maybe I'm a bit out
of out of the loop in terms of where all
of this started. And why it's now a Christian nationalist movement.
I've always heard it, I believe me. I've always heard
it was there, but it's like it's ramping up right,
(33:17):
and the rhetoric is there. But the people I know,
the people I talk to you do not subscribe to
this needing to be a mostly white Christian nation. I
know that people think that we need to return to
family values, and some of those principles are most of
them are based on Christian values. So that I've heard,
and we also got to we also got to look
(33:38):
at the fact that people are feeling marginalized. Like the
other way now, a lot of white people are feeling
that way because they feel that they're being attacked. They're
they're the ones who are told that they should be
guilty about existing for being white. I'm just throwing the
other argument out there, Jo and I'm not saying that's
what I believe, but I'm just this is way people
are feeling, and this is what I've been told.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
George. I think I'm pure numbers wise, You're right.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
In all the data I've looked at, Christian nationalists are
maybe twenty to twenty five percent of the Republican Party vote.
It's the bulk of the evangelical vote. The evangelical vote
is the heart of the base, but it's not the
entire evangelical vote. I think they're gaining in strength, and
(34:30):
I think it's something to really be concerned about. You know,
I said earlier that I was Tea Party. I'm still
Tea Party. Tea Party became MAGA. I left. What's the difference? Like,
I'm Tea Party because I believe in freedom, and yeah,
I don't like the left and and I don't like
the Left using government to kind of give us their
(34:52):
version of America. But my answer to that is just
limit government, downsize government. MAGA is all about using government
to give us their America. So MAGA is a very
pro government, expansive government kind of thing because they've got
their view on what America should be. And look like
(35:15):
I oppose both of those visions. Keep government out of
my life, agreed.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So let we're I know I don't have you for
a lot longer here, So I want to touch on
this since since you've come over to the Democrat Party,
and I know that you guys have differences between you
and the Democrat party in terms of your core beliefs.
I've heard some of your other interviews and I can
see where there's there's not I wouldn't say tension, but
they could say, well, I don't quite agree with you,
(35:42):
but they want to hear you out at least, which
is good. You're getting them to talk as well, regardless
of however you want to characterize yourself or labor yourself
in terms of party. They're open to listening to you
because you came from the other side. You got a
lot of experience. I mean, hell, we can't not deny
who you are. So how's that going in terms of
(36:02):
acceptance in terms of when you have to have those
tough conversations about your core principle beliefs and what they believe.
Can you give us a little background insight into what
you were experiencing with that, George.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
It hadn't been easy. It's been about three and a
half months. I can generally say that the Democratic grass
roots has embraced me, and they've generally said, Joe, you
were that crazy Tea party guy. Disagree with you on
guns and Israel whatever, but man, this is all about
(36:36):
defending democracy. We're all in this together. The Democratic Party
establishment has been much more standoffish, like, look, I think
the party is struggling to figure out what to do
because and maybe again, maybe you disagree with me. I
think Donald Trump's one of the worst human beings that
(36:56):
ever lived, but the Democrats lost to him. So if
that doesn't tell you that Democrats have real fucking issues.
So they're trying to figure out. George and my conversations
with them, do we go further harder left and energize
the left, or do we follow Joe Walsh and let's
have a big tent party and give me some people
(37:17):
in the middle, moderate and conservative Dems. They don't know
which way to go, so they're feeling me out. Like
a lot of people be switched parties to run for office.
People ass me all the time, are you gonna run?
My answer is I'd love to run again, but I
didn't become a Democrat to run like I don't think
(37:37):
I could win a Democratic primary right now. I'm not
lefty enough right So it's been a real mixed bag.
No regrets though.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What you said earlier though about them trying to figure
it out and maybe lean harder left, I mean, how
much further they want to go, and that's what lost
them their position in the first place. That's what got
them here.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
You know what they say, George, You know what they
say because that's generally I agree with you. That's my thought.
What do you mean further left? And the answer they
give me is Joe fucking a. Look what the Republican
Party did. They went with Trump and they went as
far right as you can go, and they're winning.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I mean, Trump's an exception though.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, Trump's not really a real Republican though he really
I never claimed to be. He was an opportunitist, I believe,
you know, and he was able to step in where
people like you said, we're looking for a disruptor and
looking for change. I think what you're trying to do,
from what I'm hearing and what i've heard you speak of,
by the way, on other shows, is I think you're
(38:40):
just trying to help the Democrats become a common sense party.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's what I'm hearing. And let's be honest. You know
a lot of people from my like I'm a gen xer,
right on the tail end, I guess, but a lot
of people from my generation, we were more liberal back
in the day, and they became a totally different party,
and everybody else I know that's of my generation is
pretty much shifted conservative. But even now we're like, we're conservative,
(39:06):
but I mean, we're not necessarily on board with where
it's going right now, at least the Republican Party.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Oh my god, George, you're so fucking spot on. Like
I wrote an article three years ago calling for a
new political party and I called it the common sense, tolerant,
get shit done party. Like picking issue, any issue, a transgenderism, Okay,
(39:33):
my party on transgenderism, what should it be? My god,
I be free identify however you want to identify. Baby,
it's your life, your call, your decision. We shouldn't discriminate
against you, gay, straight, transgender. When it comes to transgender
men in women's sports, time out, competition's got to be fair,
(39:54):
right when it comes to transgender men in women's bathrooms,
respect the privacy rights of both sides, but generally embrace
transgender Americans. Live your life, and let's not discriminate against you.
To me, that's that's the common sense platform for transgender Americans.
And I could go down issue by issue. Neither party
(40:16):
is there by the way.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I think I'm not going to get too deep in
the transgender thing. But you know, everyone I know, at
least that I know, agrees with that, like, we don't care.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't care you.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
You know. The only thing that we've ever said, me
and people I know, I say we, but I'm just
specifically my people is we don't believe it should be
force taught or exposed to children that are like first grade. Second,
I think you got to let the mind develop first.
They're not in a position yet to make those type
of decisions. You don't. You know, they're very malleable, They're
(40:49):
very their minds are easily shaped right and influenced. Look,
if you're going through high school whatever, you kind of
already know where you're going to go in life and
what you are when you become an adult. Nobody I
do not care. Do what you gotta do. I just
I just don't agree with it being pushed on children
who don't even know themselves what toilet.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Agreed with, agreed that that would be part of the
common sense agenda on transgenderism. And again, I seed a
lot to parental rights. If if if I were a
parent and I had a first grader, a little first
grade boy. You thought he was a girl. I mean,
I think I know how i'd feel as a dad,
(41:28):
But it's up to that mom and dad to handle
their first grade boy how they want, you know, whatever.
But I certainly don't want schools and other people forcing
shit down there.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
That's a good point. We did get away from letting
parents be parents. Yeah, And I don't even know when
that started how, I don't, at least I don't remember anyway. Uh,
what do you what do you think about the states lately?
And California has been bad on this by the ways
where I live, trying to step in and get between
(41:57):
the family unit, the the parents and the child, and
now the school speak for the parent, and then the
state steps in and starts to say no, no, no, no, no,
you can't do it that way because the state supersedes
your right to parent your child. I know I might
be sounding a stream, but I'm just trying.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
To no, no, George, I'm with you, brother. That's this
is where I've always been right there with you. And
this has always typically been the province of the left
interfering with parental rights. I'm a big school choice person.
I think a parent should decide whether their kid goes
to school, and the taxpayer money should follow it. But
(42:34):
what's what But what's also what's weird now is we've
got the MAGA right trying to do the same thing.
Uh super seded that that that you can't parents can't
turn their kids into transgenders in first, second or third grade.
(42:55):
Stay out of it, no matter what the issue is,
stay out of it. The schools out of it. I
don't hear people except in the middle arguing that position
like MAGA thinks of transgenderism. A bunch of the biggest
MAGA media voices believe that it should be eliminated from
(43:19):
the public square. There should be it shouldn't exist, or
it's a mental illness. I don't think that's where most
Americans are.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Well, here's the thing about this transgenderism. It's always been
a minority of people who literally, deep inside, felt they
were another sex. Right. What is appalling, though, I'm going
to say it is we've never seen it lately like
now as it used to be, to where all of
a sudden, it's almost seems like it's just a thing
(43:50):
to do. It's like a trend, and people are making
these decisions and then regretting them later. But I'm not
taken away from the person who truly knows inside who
they really are. By the way, I am very cautious
about how it has been turned into almost a weapon
to divide people, unfortunately, because how can we sit here
(44:12):
and not acknowledge the upward trend of more and more
people deciding all of a sudden they're trans versus It
used to be like, I don't know, less than three
percent of people that would actually say, yeah, no, you
can identify.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
You're right. And George, I guess what this speaks to
is Trump is an overreaction on almost any issue to
how the left overreacted on every issue. So the left
took this issue and tended to shove it in our faces.
Accept it, and it was everywhere and anybody can be it.
(44:50):
Accept it, accept it. And Middle America a lot of
us kind of recoiled against that. What do you mean?
What do you mean? We got thirty different genders, what
are you talking about? Shut something down our throat, and
a lot of that then helped elect Trump, who now
is taking it in the other extreme.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
On almost any exactly, and it's it's it dangerous I'm
not saying. I'm not saying transit dangerous. What I'm saying
is the idea of pushing a narrative the way they
are as dangerous because that could be applied to anything, right,
and how they're trying to shove it down everyone's throats,
and it's it's like, it's maybe I'm not a conspiracy guy,
but it's really starting to look very planned.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It's like George, it's like the issue of immigration, right,
So Democrats ignored the issue, welcomed people in illegally, opened
up the borders, didn't do didn't defend the borders. So
long comes Trump and says, I'm gonna I'm gonna defend
the border by bother eating cats and dogs and all
the rest. So now look at what Trump's doing. He's
(45:51):
taken it to an ugly, Unamerican dark place where he's
deporting people without due process who are not criminals. And
most of America is in neither one of those places.
Most of America says, if you're a fucking violent criminal
and you're in this country illegally, get that hell out.
If you're a day laborer who's been in this country
for twenty years, excuse me. That's different. This is you're
(46:15):
part of a broken system. If you were brought here
as a kid, Okay, there's got to be a solution
intented instead of deporting you to another country without any
due process. So now we're living the other extreme on immigration.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
So what we're seeing are both overcorrections and overreactions. Bingo, yeah,
ins of in terms of immigration, I'm going to just
touch on the agricultural worker. Right. The unfortunate situation I've
seen in most cases is they I don't agree they
should be targeting, but the loophole of scenes that's being
(46:47):
used is they are generally part of the H two
A visa program. Okay, when these raids happen and they
do catch these people, don't I don't think it's right
what they're doing. They should give them an opportunity. But
most of the people they have caught are people that
were not part of that system. And it's not their fault.
It's the employer who certain invented the H two A
(47:09):
system because they didn't want to pay the fees or
the wage or whatever it was, so that they can
basically get the worker for substandard wages. They didn't have
to house them they didn't have to drive them back
and forth to the farms. I think the farmers, not
farm America, not all farmers. By the way, I'm just saying,
let's just say employers. Let me change it. I think
the employers who are circumventing this program are the ones
(47:31):
that need to be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
So, George Bingo, you and I are on the same page.
So instead of these folks, deport the employers who are
circumventing our immigration system, and deport the politicians who created
this fucked up immigration system.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
It sounds like you and I agree that people who
have been here, and I know there's going to be
people who have a hard stand and say, while they
broke the laws, screw them, send them back. I think
it's easy to determine a good person versus a bad
per in this case, if they don't have a record,
they've been here, they've been contributing, they have a family,
it's very easy to investigate and say, well, look, you
broke the law, you got one on us. Here's what's
(48:09):
going to happen. You're going to have this opportunity, You're
going to have this much time to get it right,
and then you give them the deadline them give them
a chance.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, because a big part of the problem. And again
I'm a small government guy, but this takes government resources.
You come to this country claiming asylum, that's a legal process, yes,
but my fucking god, it takes way too long to
adjudicate that process. You come here claiming asylum, your case
(48:38):
should be adjudicated within weeks. Now it's years. So that's
got a change because and Trump did this, Every president
does this. These people are giving a little slip of paper,
your court data is in nine months, come back, and
they're off in the interior of the country, many never
to be heard from again.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Right, that is the problem. And I think part of
the solution I was I was offering and giving them
the opportunity would be bypassing that absorbive amount of time
to get anything done, Like we should fast track this,
give them that opportunity. Their deadline definitely shouldn't be nine
months down the road, because again, you're giving the person
(49:19):
either the opportunity to do something wrong or you're just
leaving them in limbo. And then you're building a case
on them based on something that you said they can do.
Go whitch is stupid.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
And then and then yeah, so then Ice is actually
grabbing people in courthouses as they show up.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
For I don't agree with that at Yeah, all that listen.
I agree. I agree with keeping our border safe. I
agree in enforcing policies and laws that are in place.
But if someone is going out of the way to
actually go to court to go through a hearing, amen,
like they're already going through the process at the point
they're already saying, oh, I'm asked, Sure, okay, I'm showing up.
We'd go do what I have to do and do
(49:58):
it the right way. I don't believe that's where you
start snatching people. Man, you should be doing that before
it even gets there.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Bingo.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Anyway, that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I agree George totally.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I'm gonna start wrapping up because I know you have
like a heart out.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Look, I gotta do my least favorite thing, George. I
gotta go on TV and yell about Trump. I hate.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Oh well, look, I wish the Democrat Party look uh,
and I'm gonna need it. I hope they learn from you.
I just I just look. All I'm hearing from you
is you want common sense. You're advocating for a common
sense party. But you definitely don't like Trump because he
has steered the Republican Party away from where it used
to be. So I absolutely understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Let me correct you just slightly. Okay, you're right, I've
I've evolved, and I want common sense centrist solutions.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I oppose Trump and then his party because it is
his party, because I literally believe he's an American. Like
here's where I am, George. He lost an election and
refused to accept the result. As far as I'm concerned,
(51:14):
he should have been shipped to Siberia. Once we've look,
I've run for office and I've won and lost. Man,
the will of the people. The people speak every two
years and every four years, and you work your ass
off to try to win, but win or lose, you
accept what the people said. Donald Trump's the only person
in American history presidential candidate who refused to do that.
(51:36):
Now you may disagree with me. Then he committed crimes
trying to overthrow an American election. I think this guy
is an utter traitor to this country. Like defending democracy,
I believe it's like teetering. That's way more important than
any issue to me. That you and I are talking
about right now.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I think there's a lot more nuanced in those situations
that it's gonna take a lot more time for you
and I to go through. My intent is not to
have an argument with you. My intent is to hear
you out man, and because I think that's important really,
rather than just having a back and forth argument. So
as far as Trump goes, it doesn't what happens, I
(52:17):
will say this, I agree. Look except the results. If
you have grievances proven in court, that's what should have happened.
That's not what happened. As far as JA six goes,
I have my opinions, but we can talk about that
another day. For now, I'm gonna say this, I think
you should run. Why not Joe Walsh for twenty twenty eight?
You make sense regardless if you're with the Democrat Party
(52:39):
or not. You're I think you're coming from a perspective
that really does represent more of how people feel right now.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So I'm not gonna bullshit. Yeah, I'm thinking about it.
I could never run as run as a Republican because
I could never win a Republican primary, obviously. I I
I've thought about it. As a Democrat. I don't know
that the Democratic Party is going to move in my direction.
(53:07):
I'd love this. If I had a gazillion dollars, I'd
run as a well funded independent because I think you're
right that most Americans are where I am you and
I are.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I think so. Well, Look, put your hat in the
ring anyway, because worst case, regardless, I think you'll get
people thinking, and I think you would be that disrupt
that people.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
Need agree totally agree.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
All right, sir, I'm gonna let you go because it
is that time for you. Love to have you back,
and please let's stay in touch and appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Do me a favorite. All you do is asked.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
I'll come back, no worries. I appreciate it. Thank you, Joe, Thank.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
George cot Field. Detention Devils behind redemption unstans one do
(54:01):
do do Do Do
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Do
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