Royce D'Orazio - Content Creation, Media, and Scandals - World Ablaze with George Fontes

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, we're going hoys, got it going after your
technical difficulties, so we're fine.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
This is the thing.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is the thing for me. I don't I don't
do the typical interview question answer thing. I like to
I like to do a little background and eventually, in
our conversation your background comes out in terms of your
experiences and whatnot. So yeah, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's the way we do it.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
The one thing I got to ask, though, is I'm
not going to pronounce your last name because I'm gonna
not do any justice. So if you could possibly do
that for me, I'm horrible, I really am.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I
appreciate that here well, and you can butcher it however
you'd like. But my full name is Royce Durazzio. That's
just the cleanest, easiest way to say it.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
You just way to do it, all right, Royce, Well,
thanks for being here. Now going through, I'm gonna be
honest with you. I've been listening to a lot of
your podcasts lately and it's not bad, no, but it
seems like we have a little bit of a similarities
in terms of what we have done. Possibly in some backgrounds,
and then I was looking through your blog and I

(01:09):
see that you do. You know, you write a little
bit on some politics, but you're also just about, hey,
what's happening, current events, et cetera. And I did hear
one podcast that you did where you were talking about
streaming and content creation. So I mean, there's a lot
of ways we can go here, because I think all
of those things are good topics to have, especially since
everybody is trying to get into the podcast base. Everyone

(01:30):
wants to be a content creator, et cetera, and I
think they have a lot as a big false sense
of what it takes to do this. You know, and
your son's been doing this longer than me, so I'm
sure you have a lot more stories. But I know
you were doing the TikTok thing for quite a bit.
Don't know if you still do. That's something I never
got into. But you know, let's start with where you
came from with your content creation and why. I mean, honestly,

(01:51):
you can tell me why.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
You know, as you asked that, I think it goes
further back than I realize, because I had an internet
radio show before podcasting was a term, and we were
in a guesthouse in Beverly Hills and we had four
phone lines trunked like real phone lines trunked into each

(02:14):
other and we would go live on RANT Radio and
we did this underground show for like two years every Sunday.
Podcasting came out and I didn't understand it at first.
Turns out it just means recorded, so it goes that
far back. The TikTok thing is a whole other ride.
I fell into that during the pandemic, and that was

(02:34):
based in a lot of irl stuff, but mostly Disney parks.
And now I'm trying to break that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Okay, Well, what attracted you to do in the underground radio?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've always loved radio. I grew up listening to Stern.
I'm from the Philly suburbs and I just love talk.
You know, I've got a face for radio, the gift
of gaps. What's a good combination, And I think that
especially in a day's world. And one of the reasons
I'm loving substack so much is it's like perfect for

(03:04):
audio and people are always looking and I love radio
because it just forces you to listen. So I've just
always loved radio. And one of the things that Stern
did for me growing up was I felt like I
was sitting in a room with contemporaries hanging out, and
that added value, especially when you get to a point

(03:25):
when you're growing up where you feel like you're all alone, right,
So to have those familiar voices that would maybe inform
me a little bit, make me laugh, there's value to that,
you know.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I've always been more on the audio side personally
as well. There's something about hearing a conversation without the
distraction of visuals. But with this big push lately with
all the podcast aggregators, hosts, everybody wants to go to viato.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
They think it's the thing.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
But you know, when I look at what's going on
as statistics like, I still have more downloads, more and
more interaction on my audio side than I do on
the video side. Regardless, it's just two different worlds, two
different ways of consuming it, two different people that want
to want to go ahead and consume it a certain way. Really, so,
I like audio. It allows you to focus and really
hit the conversation. Now, with that being said, let's talk

(04:13):
about your podcasts, because there's a few episodes I don't
even know if we can talk about this. But one
thing that drew my interest. I don't know how far
you want to go because you're geting at vague about it. Anyway,
it was kind of a shorter one is when you
were talking about James Gunn a little bit. I really
wasn't sure the whole story on that. Yeah, you know,
given the nature of my podcast, by the way, it's
it's pretty much current advanced politics geopolitics.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Now, I'm not sure how political.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
We're going to get, but this is something that really
caught my attention given the Superman movie. And there's a
few things that you said in terms of like, you know,
maybe he stepped on people to get where he got,
and you know, you didn't say exactly like that. I
am that's just kind of how I heard it. But
the reality is, can can you get more background on
that situation and what you know and kind of what

(04:54):
you heard secondhand? Because I wanted to get more detail
on that. If you're okay talking about.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
It, I'm happy to talk about it, and I love
that's what you chose. Uh So let me start with this.
I grew up with some guys that wound up becoming
close to and working with James. So what I have
to say comes through those accounts, not through you know,
reading things online. It's not even secondhand. I guess technically

(05:20):
it's secondhand, but it's really it's firsthand. Right. So at
the time that well, let me let me start with
James as a as a person and as a writer.
I personally, and this is just a personal opinion that
he's a horrible writer. And if you want proof, go
back to those Scooby Doo movies where he made scrappy
do the villain? I mean, who does that? Right? Like?
Who does that? Just so that's bizarre. So, but the

(05:44):
first Guardians of the Galaxy was developed by a woman
named Nicole Pearlman. I think it was about a decade
in development. So he plucked it and she got some
benefits off of it. I don't know if it was
a producer credit or what. But he took everything with
it and and he from what I heard through the
people that I know, is that he kicked and screamed.

(06:05):
He had a web series at the time, uh with
with a raccoon puppet, I believe, and he got that
going enough that he was able to say, I know
how to do this. I know how to do this,
and he's so, but what I what? I what I
know that's more important and we're relevant to where you're
going with this, is they went to those parties. I

(06:28):
saw the photos from those the parties that my quote
unquote former Well now they're former friends, so I can
say that former friends went to where the uh priest
and uh child party. I don't remember exactly what they
called it, but it was either you you dressed up
as a child or you dressed up as an abus

(06:49):
or a priest. That was the premise, right, their premise,
not mine. So it was I don't know if they
called it priest and pedophiles, and you could go, well,
that doesn't even make sense, but like, who really needs
to waste that much time thinking about logic, right? And
the kind of people they hang out with. Some of
them are self proclaimed there's a band that they hang
out with. So it was this type of group of people,
and there's a lot of familiar names that you would

(07:10):
know that we're at these parties that I was told
was at these parties. But moreover, when the whole thing
broke with Disney, I had already seen those photos on
the person's cell phone, who went to the party. The
article that you may be referring to that I wrote
about with the individual in it is somebody that I
grew up with, and when I went to source the

(07:31):
photos for my sub stack, I didn't realize that he
would be in the in the picture, and it jarred me.
And this is somebody, I mean, I grew up with
someone who correct to the extent that I have IMDb
credits with them. Okay, yeah, I'm sure that was a shock.
The photo was a shock. I knew he was there,
and I knew he was part of it, and I'm

(07:53):
privy to a lot more than what I just said.
But that's that's me laying the tracks for you, and
so take it where you'd like. Well, you know, it's it's.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Really really really getting down to I'm sure you can
only say so much without getting in trouble, right, James
gunn Is, He's he's a fairly powerful figure, I guess.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
In terms of with somebody for the truth, can you.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, here's you want to know what I believe. I
really don't give a damn who they are. If they
did it, in my opinion, fuck him, I don't really care.
I don't care how powerful they think. They are not
gonna affect me personally, honestly, they're just not. They don't
control my income. So you know, as far as as
far as you're concerned, you mean, be as open as
you want to be. But the reality is I personally

(08:37):
didn't know about these parties that if he's involved in,
and the tie to Disney, like, I didn't understand everything
that was going on. I just I just know that
all of a sudden he just started coming up. Not
sure why. I know that the movies he's been involved
with where yeah, they're kind of like okay, but yet
everybody's praising this guy. And so when I heard your
podcast you're talking about this, you know, these allegations or

(08:58):
whatever was going on with these parties kitty parties or
pedophile parties if we want to call it that, I
really really just caught my attention. I really was like, WHOA,
what the hell's going on with this? And it really
really raised the question because it sounds like you know
a lot of people in that world right just from
growing up with people, you have associations, and it's really
like the stories that we always hear about this, I mean,

(09:20):
are they really true? Is there a lot of that
going on in Hollywood in general?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yes, really, there's a lot of that goes on in
the world period. And not that I'm trying to flip
it into a plug, but I literally just wrote an
article that was really more of an info dump. It
wasn't even really an article. It's literally an info dump.
But when you stop and you look at that level
of power and those people, it transcends party politics, it

(09:45):
transcends religion and any other ideology, and at that point
it becomes about nothing other than more power and more money.
So that's why you'll never see the Epstein files, you know,
because everybody is involved at that level.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Well yeah, and that we can absolutely assume. And then
since you brought that up, you know, also the other
tie that everyone can see if you're actually just connecting
the dots, even at a third grade level. Did he
how was that not related?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
You know who?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Everyone saw it? And then suddenly he gets off, you know,
slap on the wrist. Really and as far as the
Epstein files go, it's very evident that look, if there
was nothing that was going on there, why was Jill
saying Maxwell arrested?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Why for what being a pimp only Well, I don't
know how you. I mean, I think it's indisputable there
was something going on, right.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, so she was arrested for being a pimp. There's
no list, but somehow they had to hold her. Now
she's trying to negotiate, saying she's going to release names
in the list. If Epstein wasn't who he was and
didn't have the connections he did, why would he kill
or not kill himself? However you want to coin that one.
So there was a lot going on here that everyone's
trying to hide and cover up. Obviously, to me, what

(11:01):
I thought in the beginning, because I was looking at
it from the geopolitical point of view, was they didn't
want to release the list because I think personally, I
don't know for sure, this is all conjecture, but I
think that there was ties to world leaders that would
really up to end everybody's world, and at the moment,
they couldn't just release all these names because it would
just be a shift form.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
So I think that's what.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Was really going on in the beginning, But now I'm
not really sure what's going on. So they have evidence,
then they don't have evidence, Then they do have evidence.
I mean, they had about two decade investigation into everything
was doing, but somehow they don't have anything at all now,
like it all just disappeared.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, so I think what it really And it's interesting
to talk about the idea that, oh, it'll bring down
power structures and industries and all these things. But I
think more importantly, it's just because Epstein is out of
the picture doesn't mean that the leverage that he had,

(12:01):
much like Diddy, doesn't hold value. So I think it's
more about we don't want to release these things because
we give away all the leverage we have on all
these people. Why would we do that?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
That could be that could be the case. And while
we may have leverage, it also sets the precedent so
far that it's okay to get away with doing those
heinous things. Though, I mean, if there's never gonna be
accountability and they just keep getting away with it, so
what does that say to the rest of the world.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
But I think that's the that's the raw truth. I
think that And look, I mean Superman, so just let's
bring this all up. And because it does so, Superman
just opens up right, Superman is being produced. First of all,
it's wild to me that he's directing the movie and
the CEO at the same time. That should be considered
a conflict of interest in Anythingeah, I heard you talk

(12:51):
about that. Okay. So then on top of that, you
have the whole politicization of the Superman movie. You have
the James gun pedophilia accusations over the years and all
of that michigas to use some Yiddish, and then you
have the Trump of it all and the EPs. I mean,
it's all so murky, and then you have people arguing

(13:12):
like in ways that are just completely hypocritical because they
can't see it for what it is. We live in
a world where people at this level are not held
accountable for their actions period. Has nothing to do with party.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, well, and that's true, But when did I mean,
will we ever be able to hold anyone accountable in
your in your opinion? And do you think it is
ever gonna happen or is it just because they are
in a powerful position that's just going to constantly be
able to get away with the lifestyle they live.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, I think Trump is like the velociraptor in the
first Drassic Park, testing the weaknesses. So what Trump has
done in as they like to call it, one point
zero and now is continue to test the weaknesses in
the system, which only opens it up for somebody who's smarter, sharper,

(14:03):
and more able to do more damage. You know. That's
I think the problem is that we're headed in that
wrong direction. That's kind of one of the reasons that
I think we need to start having more open conversation
from the middle and really get back to like, I'm
not here to persuade, and I don't mean literally with you,
but like, I'm not here in the conversations I have

(14:23):
with my audience or anybody or even you to persuade.
I'm actually here to pick up something that I might
not have thought of. And I think people need to
get out of their silos. I see a lot of
the same faces talking to the same people. It's like
to make another James Gun reference, and I'll let the
nerds pick this up on their own. But it's like
the Toxic Avengers. When I see you know, the same

(14:46):
six people you know circulating on the same podcast, I'm like,
you guys are just yelling at the same audience. You're
not producing any new conversation because that's too much work.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
That that's that's another conversation, and that's something I agree
with me with you on.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Now, Okay, we'll get to that.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
As far as far as the James Gun thing, I mean, Epstein,
it is what it is. We know it's out there.
It's unfortunate what's happening. But as far as James Gun
is concerned, I don't even know how many I mean,
how deep does this go with him? How long has
this been going on with all these allegations, because I
literally don't know. I never paid attention to the guy,
to be quite honest, and I'm so engrossed with so

(15:27):
many other things that I do on the podcast that
I really if you only take so much in right,
it's a crazy world right now, there's so much happening.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
How deep does that go that you know of? So
the whole thing that happened with Disney in a nutshell
was they started unearthing old tweets. This guy comes from
the Troma world, so he's always sort of been the
alternate guy, right, So he's always considered himself to be
sort of a you know, I don't know what you

(15:55):
want to use. A provocateur is the word he would use.
I don't quite think. I don't think he's that witty.
I think he wishes he was a provocateur. But he
would say these outlandish things over the years on Twitter.
He had relationships I cannot remember the name of the
band where they're self proclaimed pedophiles. They just go after
They would talk about going after young underage girls. Right,

(16:16):
So he surrounded himself with these type types of people. Well,
all I can tell you is that at the time
that this happened, at the time that he was being fired. Okay,
at the time he was working for Disney prior to
being fired, he was having these parties because I know
people that went there. And my one former friend came

(16:41):
up to me and goes, look at what I wore,
and he shows me his selfie where he dressed up
like a child with a propeller hat on at the party.
And I looked at him like, what is what is
wrong with you? Like what part of you thinks this
is something that I this is not entertaining. And then again,
if you are suggesting you're a provocateur, there's no audience here.

(17:03):
This is behind closed doors. So what I can verify,
or what I can say verifiably is that those parties
happened during that time. One of the people I know
worked one of the people I knowed. I'm deciding if
i want to say what I want to say, because

(17:24):
somebody who's really sharp can put all the dots together.
But one of the two people I'm talking about spent
a long time getting close to James because it benefited
their career, and it has to the extent that you'll
find James has producer credits on all of their projects.

(17:44):
So it's kind of one of those things where it's like,
and that's the industry, right. I mean, I don't want
to totally derail it, but I could tell you other
stories of other situations, public stuff that you would know
about where I've worked with people who openly talked about
these things as if they were okay. And these are
people who on paper should be speaking out against these things,

(18:09):
but they turned a blind eye because of their career.
And I'm talking about people that work with Cosby by
the way, So it just it's sort of like one
of these things where again and no, there's no party
lines anymore. I could tell you that I'm a Democrat,
I could tell you I'm a Republican, it doesn't really matter.
I'm making a ton of money. I'm turning a blind
eye to your transgressions. Right, that's Hollywood. That's that's really everything.

(18:30):
I shouldn't it's not fair to just pick on Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
No, no, no no, but it's we're talking about Hollywood since
we well I brought up the James Gunn thing. Yeah,
so that's why we're discussing it. But you know it
gets me, is I don't I don't have that mindset,
like why what is attractive about a child? Like what
is it about that type of person or people like
that that they need to abuse and destroy children?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Like why? I mean, I don't even want to have
that conversation because then you're asking me to get inside
that mindset. And I can only tell you because I
know you listened to that particular episode that I've seen
throughout my life a lot of this stuff firsthand, and
I think it always comes back to the same thing.
People like to see what they can get away with.

(19:16):
I know it goes deeper, but generally speaking, when it
comes to power and abuse, people like to see what
they can get away with. Can I say anything on
this podcast? Yeah? So I worked with a woman who
at the time was over at NBC. Now, she said

(19:42):
to us at lunch one day before this Bill Cosby
stuff ever broke when Hannibalbarris broke it. She because she
was a producer on The Cosby Show as a young woman,
she said, very flippantly over lunch, as if it was
about running an errand Bill Cosby used to force the
pas to give him blowjobs, as if she said, Bill

(20:02):
Cosby used to force the pas to pick up his
dry cleaning. You know, it's just like what you do
just part of your day. Now that woman has an oscar.
She's I don't want to make this issue that it's
not but on paper, you know, Democrat, Democrat supporter. And

(20:26):
I know these things firsthand because I worked on campaigns
by happenstance that she was on. And it's just the
small world that way, uh, and went on to produce
other people and you know, beyond Cosby and so so
saw it for what it was back then, right, went
on to trade off of other plights and get an oscar.

(20:50):
I'm trying to be a little vague there. And you
know again you go, you look at this person, you go, well,
I think that I thought you were like a liberal,
and I thought you were like, these are the issues
and and this is like you know me too, and
all these things, but not when it not when it
comes to self interest, right, But you have to ask
yourself if you were in that situation, what would you

(21:10):
really do? I'm not really sure.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
I mean, that's that's the thing I've I've brought up
and other other conversations is like, for example, if we're
talking about someone who's corrupt, right, we we think, we
think we want our politicians and everybody that all of
our heroes are infallible. Someone waves a hundred million dollars
in your face. How infalliable? Fallible you're gonna be? You're
gonna turn it down? Are you really gonna say no?

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Are you to say no if someone gives you a
hundred million?

Speaker 2 (21:38):
But can we bring that back? Can we bring that
back to the Epstein thing for a minute. Yep, And
let's just trade that money, uh formula there for power formula.
You're you're any of these people, your cash Betel, your
Dan Bongino. Right, And you're brought into an admin right,
and you get a look behind the curtain and you

(21:59):
realize that you know you were manipulated to the extent
that you know, Trump knew he was never going to
release these Epstein files. Right, But now you're in a
position of power and you're and you're being given the
ultimate option. Do you give up your power or do
you are you silence in exchange to keep it? Or
do you choose to speak up and then become ostracized

(22:19):
and become the enemy. And you can already see that
Trump is taking the if you're not with me, you're
against me approach by immediately turning anybody that doesn't agree
with him, meaning his supporters, into the enemy to nullify
this story. So it's just one of those things where
you're like, you're you're trapped. Like I mean, imagine those

(22:40):
guys coming in there and thinking that they were going
to shed light on something and now that they're like, oh,
we were stuck. I mean, it's like the ultimate chess move, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I mean, you're you're as stuck as you want to be.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I mean, if you.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
This is just really the moral argument, right, the argument
the morality of the situation and the reality. And to me,
it's you're going to have to make that choice. I mean,
you don't want to destroy yourself, but at the same time,
truth has to be told to make sure that we
can you know, decapitate this power structure. And that's where
that's really you know, what it comes down to. I mean, sure,

(23:17):
do you want to be beholding held hostage by by
some you know, greasy asshole who's who's literally just you know,
has no moral compass whatsoever. It's taking advantage of the
people in the system. I mean, I don't think most
people would now. I think where people do not want
to step out and where they don't want to bring down,

(23:37):
you know, the kingdom, so to speak, is when their
family is threatened. I think most people on the personal
level can care less, but they don't want to sacrifice
their family or the loved ones. And if that's just
being held over the heads, and that's where the issue is.
I believe someone like Dan Bongino, I mean, if you
want to talk about that, everyone has their opinion on
this whole thing that's going on with this MAGA movement

(23:57):
and all these individuals and you know, self reclining influencers
and whatnot. But you know, he gave up millions of
dollars as a podcaster and wants to go ahead and
now become you know, part of the FBI deputy director
used to be a secret service agent. Great, he wanted
to uncover things, so did Cash Mattel. The whole reason
these guys, or at least Cash was even you know,

(24:17):
GANI supporters, because he was supposed to expose bring things down.
Then we can also have the conversation as to why
the hell was Pambondi even put into the position she was.
You know, as far as I was concerned, I didn't
really see much of what she did anything in Florida.
Sure she talked tough, but I mean.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
But maybe maybe she was put there to make sure
that the files never get released. Maybe that's why those
binders came out. And then they realized that we thought
we could pull a fast one that didn't work, kick
the can that didn't work.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Here we are, yeah, exactly, And that was that was
just that was it was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, it wasn't beyond hilarious.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
That was the stupidest thing I've ever seen here to
give you that.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Would you take a picture with a binder celebrating that
you that you've got pedophile documents? Like even if you were.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
It's not even just about that, whereas it's to me,
it's it's it's you're the White House.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
You're the White House.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
You're supposed to be held to a higher standard, and
you're gonna use influencers and give them this access that
you won't give anybody else. Right, Well, that's say about
your administration.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
But that's why Dan Bongino got the job, right, because
the whole idea is that these people, this goes back
to what you were saying about like family and doing
things for the right reason. The problem is these folks
are there for fame and power, and now a guy
like Bongino is in the ultimate situation. And by the way,
I was just kind of laughing more at the influencers

(25:38):
holding the binders celebrating pedophilia. Even though they're anti pedophilia,
they're still holding those binders and celebrating it. Oh yeah,
I get it, I get it. But but but so,
But Bongino isn't like the ultimate like lose lose, win
win scenario because he's got he gets to choose power
or go back to his audience. But neither one of
those are predicated on doing what's right. No, it's all

(26:01):
about self interest, and I.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Don't know him personally, so I mean we can only
assume what he's thinking. But just from how he has
carried himself and what he's done in media, I think
he would have loved to have stayed on his podcast,
you know. I think sometimes it's better to be on
the outside. Once you're on the inside, you don't like
what you see.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
I can't necessarily say I can put any blame on
him because he's not really in charge. He's he's debut director.
I mean, at this point, he's towing the line. He's
trying to be careful what he says in light of
representing the FBI and also being you know, one of
the prime picks by President Trump, right, he had Trump
support himself. So I get where he's coming from. So
I can't fault him. But the problem is is we're

(26:41):
seeing an FBI that is really a repeat of what
everybody else said was wrong about the previous administration's FBI.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
What's the damn difference at this point, There's never going
to be a difference. That's that's why they call it
the deep state. Well exactly, so, Litsten, here, here's what happens.
You know, we just we mentioned Stern earlier. Yeah, and
I always used Stern as the analogy. Okay, Stern railed
on iMOS his entire early career, Okay, and then Stern
became Imus. Because it's inevitable no matter what your genre is, Okay,

(27:14):
when you hit success, it's inevitable that you become the
very thing you were railing against. So Bongino will probably
leave at some point because he's better off being on
the outside making money yelling at a boogeyman. And maybe
maybe the boogeyman will become Trump, or maybe he'll find
a new boogeyman. But once you're on the inside, now
you're accountable for the things you were railing against. And

(27:36):
then there's that reality check like, oh, we don't get
to make these decisions, they're made at a higher level. Oh,
we're never going to release any of this stuff because
it's going to ruin all the power structures in the world.
And welcome to the club. But you're indoctrinated now, and
you're like, well, I don't want to be in this
club anymore.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Well, yeah, I'm unfortunately the guy who says let it
all fucking burn. I don't really care I mean I
think the world needs a reset.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Now, as as far as you know Bonginos just as
the example, I don't want to get stuck on just him.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
But no, but it's a very good example because it's
a guy. It is like why did he get the job?
It absolutely is a good example.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
But this really brings brings the old saying home, you know,
like you don't know what you don't know?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Right?

Speaker 1 (28:19):
And the thing about power, it does corrupt, Like let's
let's let's take me you it doesn't even matter. You know,
let's say one day we we don't know, what if
we became a Joe Rogan one day? Right, what if
that even happened. Could you imagine the pressures and and
and everything that would be waved in front of you,
you know, to tempt you to try to mold and
shape you. I mean, once you get to a certain level,

(28:41):
you don't want to let go of that. And I
understand that.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
But you know, as far as Bongina goes, I think
he has enough. I think he has enough strength and
enough of a moral backbone that I don't think he
wants to.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Be where he's at.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
I I think that he thought that he was getting
into one situation where he was going to be able
to make a difference, and now he's doing the Oh shit,
what did I do?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
What did I do?

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Not that I was ever to be honest, you know,
I was never a diehard fan. I respected who he
was and what he did. Didn't agree with everything he said,
but at least he had he stood for something. You know,
he definitely wanted to expose, wanted to make sure that,
you know, whatever was wrong was righted, and that's what
he said. I mean, whether you're like you know, whether

(29:29):
you're into being a Republican Democrat, mag to me, that
doesn't matter. For the most part, a lot of his
messaging was really about trying to right the wrongs. And
now he's on the other side of it, and he's
looking like a jackass. You know, not his fault. He
didn't know what he was walking into.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
So well, that's that's exactly what I think it is.
And I think, you know, now he's in a he's
caught in a catch twenty two because he's really damn
no matter what he does, but his choices are power
and money. I mean, he's gonna be fine either way,
right and as long as he doesn't totally bite the hand,

(30:06):
which is why if he does leave and go back
to podcasting, that's going to be a tough nut to crack,
because what are you gonna do. You're gonna start railing
against Trump in the deep state. No, he won't do that.
I mean he's but then what do you do? That's
like there's a larger question there. If you want to
go a little bit wider with this.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Well, we can go wider, but at some point he's
going to have to try to save face, just as
anybody would.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
How does he do that? If you're in him right now?
How do you play this?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
There's well, the only way to play it is to
kind of go against your own laurels. To be quite honest,
you would have to drum up the story that look,
I got inside, it's so dirty, I can't clean it up.
And you know, no matter what I did, I was
under threat, I was under durest. I couldn't act out,

(30:55):
and here I am. And while you're on the other side,
there's no way that you would be able to say, Look,
everything was Trump's fault. The Trump administration is filthy. He's
not going to say that he is the setting president. Now,
he's not going to lose his connections and his access,
but he can spin it if he wanted to, just
like most everybody could spin this, and anybody who's really
savvy and media can spin this story and come out

(31:17):
the other side not necessarily clean, but maybe you won't
look so bad. And let's just not let's not go
ahead and dismiss the fact that people have short memories.
There's so much has gone on in the world that
people forgot in three days. You know, I have his
conversation with people all the time when we're talking about
presidents and deportations and things like that. I'm like, wow, great,
did you know that Bill Clinton deported twelve million?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Did you know that Obama.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Took seven hundred and fifty billion dollars away from Medicaid
and raise taxes by one trillion? They go, No, this
was your era. You worked in the administration at that time.
You don't remember this, you know. So it's it's it's
the news cycle, right. There's the trick is this and
you you probably know this way better than I. The
trick is to overwhelm the public. You want to keep

(31:59):
the new cycle spinning as fast as you can with
enough flashy headlines that you can drum up to guide
and misdirect people. It doesn't matter what happens. You know,
if you're able to move quick enough in media and
you've moved the new cycle fast enough, people forget. Because
our attention spans today are so short that nobody really

(32:20):
is going to clamp down on it like a bulldog
and not let go of it. They're eventually just going like, well,
hold on, what did Elon Musk just say? You know
what happened? What a putin do? Their attention span is
so short that I know. For fact, politicians and people
that have the power, as you say, and the money,
they know this.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
They know this. That's why there's always.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
The adage that, oh, they're rich and they're powerful, they're
just going to get away with it because they know
they will. If you could delay it long enough, if
you could belay and delay the investigations, the prosecutions, et cetera,
you're going to get away with it. People lose interests,
and people are going to forget about it. And that's
just a fact. It's just the reality of the world
we live in. So it's unfortunate, but it's true.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
It's really true. That's that's the Steve Bannon strategy, flood
the zone with shit. I mean, that is why he
you know, Trump says I'm going to deport Rosie O'Donnell
because he's trying to distract from the Epstein conversation. Yeah,
you know, but you'll see it through now here. Here's
the thing, because you brought up a lot there that
that I and I'm going to try to comment on

(33:20):
all of it at once here. But you know, he's
a show biz guy, for better or worse, and he
fancies himself a show biz guy. So I could see
a Bongino exit being like, listen, I know you're gonna
have to go out there and you're gonna have to
say what you need to say for your audience to
save face. And I know you're gonna have to rail
against me. But like we're good, you know what I mean, Like,

(33:43):
I know that Trump knows that the game is played
that way. I actually think not to derail this, but
I think Trump and newsomer type I think so too. Well,
they're they're pretty much family, you know that, right? Well?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
How many how often do you do you always see
them at But you know when you can see footage
of them at partis and whatnot. They're not They're not
sitting there stabbing each other in the back. They're shaking
hands or smiling, they're cracking jokes. They all know each other.
I'm sure there's there's there's definitely animosity between some absolutely,
but they're all part of the same team.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Realistically, they're all part of the same team. They're all politicians.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
They're all playing everybody for as you said, power and money,
and it's all about manipulation, you know, it's misdirection, slight
of hand, it's all that's exactly what we're dealing with.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
It's like it's like when we're the discussion came up about, uh,
what Elon Musk wants to do, and I know you
had an opinion on this with this whole third party thing.
Great idea, it's not gonna happen and it's not gonna work.
But we do need more diversity in our choices, we
absolutely do. But there's just too much money and as
you said, power within the two parties that it's never

(34:50):
gonna come to light. It's just not gonna happen. As
rich as Elon Musk is, he's not as rich as
every single donor combined in the two parties. He's not
gonna he's not gonna to break the surface. It's just
not gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Well, I don't think a third party is enough to
break the surface anymore. No, it really won't.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
They've tried with a tea party they I mean, remember,
Ross Perot was probably the only one back in the
day with enough money to get enough attention. And he
you know, he bumped it. He did, he did well,
but still it just was not enough. And it's not
saying that he was the perfect candidate to be a president,
but it was a good example of what could be done.
But in today's times, with the amount of bombardment of

(35:29):
information and social media that everybody wakes up to and
you just can't get away from it, good luck fighting that.
You're just not going to be able to keep up
with everybody else is going to just becoming at you
from all these other angles. So I don't think the
third party is going to work out. It's a great idea,
does it need to happen? Sure we have the Libertarian Party,
good luck with that too. They can't even decide whether
or not they even want to be a political party.
They have so much infighting because they can't agree on

(35:51):
what they want to do, and they can't even agree
on who's going to lead the damn Libertarian Party.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
It's just a shit show. Our choices and the independent
parties come a workaround for anybody that needs to circumvent
the rules. So you know, Andrew Cuomo is going to
use it right now. But either party will use the
independent ticket to play.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
People will they will? I think the independent ticket is
is really coming down to the fact that people are
just over it, but they they don't seem to.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Know where to turn. Running Is Cuomo running is? Excuse me,
I'm sorry, Cuomo running is an independent? That that just
further proves how broken the Democrat Party is, absolutely because
here's no room for a real independent if you're basically
trying to flip the script and make and make the
nominee of the Democrat Party the independent candidate, that's what

(36:42):
he's trying to do.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
No, completely under I completely understand. I get what he's doing,
and he is sending a clear message. You know, look,
if we want to talk about parties, great, let's let's
talk about parties. They both suck honestly, they both got
their issues. The Democrat Party is probably the most broken
at this point because there isn't a clear leader. There

(37:03):
really is not, sadly, I mean, years ago, a lot
of people, including like me, would we were Democrat, voted Democrat,
you know, but there were a different party back then
in the day. They've morphed into something else that nobody recognizes,
and they do not seem to be able to get
a pulse on what the people are really wanting and

(37:25):
what is actually needed. It's they're too busy putting themselves first.
Now that can also be argued Trump's doing the same
damn thing. Sure, but he won on the message of
putting America first. That's what everybody wanted. We can argue
whether or not, and he's coming through in US promises.
I'm sure we could. But the Democrat Party right now

(37:46):
does not have a leader. Who's next? Who's the rising star?
AOC police not going to happen, Crockett.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
No Buddha jet like. Who is going to step up
and actually be the leader of that party? I hope
it's somebody whose name we do not know at the moment.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I agree it would be great to suddenly like if
there was some dark horse that just all of a
sudden popped up and was able to move the needle
and you're like, oh wow, okay, this is what I've
been looking for.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
This makes sense.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
But it's not even just about that anyone could tell
the story and get the votes. It's really about are
you going to actually do what you say? Or once
you're in there, are you going to let like you said,
the deep state takeover and you just become that damn
puppet on a string.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Well, they're never going to get the chance. That's the
real issue because somebody, because if somebody did rise up,
if this mythical creature rose up, okay, that they would
be squashed by the establishment. That's the problem is that
the Democrat Party is run like a high school click

(38:52):
and everything comes from the DNC and is dictated outward
and until that could be I mean, look at what
happened with Dave. I don't even like the guy, but
look at what happened with David Hogg.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, he was supposed to be the face of the DNC.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
He was supposed to be the the that's very I mean, listen,
I'm sure him, I'm sure him and Dan Bongino could
have a really good conversation over a beer. Oh, I'm
sure about getting too close to the sun. I'm very sure.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
You know, I'm gonna Okay, let's do this because I
want to move into different directions. But before we do,
let me ask your opinion on Trump. What's your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (39:37):
I think Trump Trump is oddly one of the most
consistent politicians we have ever had. And if you go
back and you look at that interview he did in
his thirties, and I never remember who the woman was
the interviewed him. I always forget her name. I want
to say it was Ronna Barrett. But he he is

(39:59):
somebody that every but he loved because he said really
shocking stuff. And at the same time, people on all
sides were asking him his entire life to consider running
for office. It wasn't until he chose to come down
the escalator and play the playbook that I guess he

(40:19):
inevitably was always going to play a La roy Cone
that he started, you know, pissing people off. But I
think Trump is is not a product of our culture.
I think that like we we just caught up. Like
I think we just caught up. I mean he's consistent.

(40:39):
I don't think we bred him. I think that he's
always been there. He's been in rap songs, he's he's
been in movies. Yeah, he's he's iconic. And it was
only until he got into politics and showed people how
he would actually do things, despite what he said all along,

(41:00):
despite all the wild things he would say on The
Stern Show, And then people are like, well, wait a second,
we don't actually think if this is the way you're
going to lead, that you should be a leader. Like
it's buyer's remorse. It's buyer's remorse.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Ye, good way to put it. Yeah, he's he's he's
not presidential. That's that's the thing about him. He's not
hilarious absolutely. I mean I like that he has no filter,
but at the same time gets him into trouble for sure,
And who the hell talks to world leaders the way
he does?

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Right, By the way, hilarious doesn't mean I like him.
I can objectively say somebody's hilarious, right, but people, we can't.
We live in a world where that's that will be
taken as an endorsement. Well, yeah, that's true. You don't
have to like him. It's fine.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I mean, we all don't have to agree on on
candidates and who we back or whatever it is. I mean, look,
there's a lot of people who voted for him that
are now now looking at the fact that you know,
there's a lot of promises that he made that he's
not coming through. A lot of things he did were fine,
a lot of things were great, But there's always the
real argument here has always been we never had a
perfect president. The problem with this guy, you know, even

(42:09):
though he's human like all of them, is he has
no damn filter. He's I mean, who the hell Arizon
Grievance is out on social media? You're the fucking president.
You're the president man a drug addict.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
You know what I'm saying. It's like, what are you doing? Yeah?
I know, it's well that's what I'm saying. It's hilarious,
but it's also scary at the same time, right, Like
I can laugh at it, but then also be like
this is this is absolutely terrible. We're all gonna die, right,
but how do you not laugh? You know? I mean,
what else was someone I gonna do? Cry? Well? What
is the reaction? The reaction? Look, I think there's a

(42:43):
lot of things that Trump has done that. If the
messenger was different, he would have been applauded. Because he's Trump.
It's it's bad branding, right, you know, maybe it's not
because he won so but at least to the opposition, right,
I mean, there's there's a lot of people that just won't,
that will openly not give this man credit for anything

(43:04):
because they despise him. I don't despise him at that level.
I used to watch The Apprentice at nauseum because I
thought he was hugely entertaining. But I didn't even if
I thought he could have been a good president, this
version of him is not capable of being a good president.
He's got moments where he's effective, right, but he is
surrounded by some really dangerous people. I don't and it cares. No,

(43:28):
he doesn't care because it's all about again self interest. Yeah,
it's self interesting. Honestly, this is last term, Like he
doesn't care. What comes next is what comes next is
far more dangerous and more concerning. Peter feel backed JD.
Vance presidency has the ability to do far more damage
to this country than anything Trump's capable of doing because

(43:50):
his brain can't move fast enough.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
The thing with Vance's I can see what you're saying
and why it would be dangerous to the degree that
you're speaking or where you're coming from, because Vance is
a polished person who knows how to present himself and
knows how to speak while he's eloqu when he's educated,
he's everything. And Trump is educated too. But Trump just

(44:14):
doesn't care. You know, He's always been rich and famous,
he's always been powerful, so in his mind, this was
just another notch on his belt.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Honestly, you can tell he said in that interview in
his thirties that he would only because she asked him again,
can I never get her name right? But she asked him,
would you run? And he said, I would only ever
run if I was broke because people would elect me
because they'd feel sorry for him. He is so honest
in this interview in his thirties. Yeah, I mean, it's
a version of him that we don't see. And I

(44:44):
watched this thing from like from end to end with
my jaw on the ground because it was just so
fascinating to hear how open he was. But Trump is
a guy that is just smart enough to get away
with a lot of things, and just smart enough to
keep the house of cards going and a lot of
that he learned from other people. Yeah, do you think

(45:05):
he's done anything good? Oh? Yeah, yeah. I mean even
when he's doing bad, I think he's doing good because
I think that you need the bad to breed the good.
So I think that if Trump is showing the worst
signs the were sides of what this country has to offer,
that maybe it'll breed better leadership and maybe this is

(45:27):
rock bottom and we can actually get somewhere productive. But
I don't think the Democrats have anything to offer towards
that solution. No, they don't. We need we need a
guy like you. What we need is a guy like you.
Did you? Who is this girl who she just lost
but she was running with a discord and a TikTok,
you know what I'm talking about. No, I wish I
could remember her name right now. Our last name was Fox.

(45:50):
I really don't recall. Well, the primary was yesterday. The
primary was yesterday, And I apologize for not remembering her
name her first name.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Literally, been doing nothing but interviews and podcasts, so like,
I'm kind of disconnected, even though you know I should
know that, since it's the nature of my what I do.
But yeah, I literally have been disconnected. I've just been
having podcasts after podcasts after guests since and I'm finding
that I'm learning stuff from people I'm talking to in
real time. I'm like, what, I don't know that I should, So, yeah,

(46:22):
I apologize, I don't.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I really only got dialed into her in the last
three days to be fair, right, So, but she she
didn't win, but her campaign she was. She's an influencer,
and she wound up using discord. Interesting, and I think
that's that's really that the next generation. So I think
that when you talk about rebooting and overhauling, it'll be

(46:45):
a whole bunch of people that are doing direct to
consumer politics that doesn't involve money, that just involves online organizing.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I mean, could you just imagine if they got rid
of all of the lobbyists and influence.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
You don't have to it, you just circumvent it. Why
do we keep asking people for money? All right? Just
five more dollars, George, just listen, help me out, just
five more dollars. We didn't make our goal, and we're
still not going to make our goal. And I'm going
to ask you again tomorrow, just five more dollars. I'm like,
how much more money do you frigging people need. You're
running on the fact that people are barely getting by,

(47:21):
so stop asking for money. So the way we take
money out of politics is to just not allow money
to rule our politics. Start electing people using social media
it's free. Well yeah, but that's that's not the people's choice. Really,
that's up to the politician to do that. So there's
but she's a disruptor, and she's she's a proof of

(47:42):
what's to come because somebody will do it louder and
harder than her, and maybe it will be her next time.
But when it's that disruptive, they won't be able to
stop it.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, but it's it's also a big reason, like it's
not new though, right, that's that's a big part of
why Trump got elected. He did take advantage of social media.
You know, he also had the money, but he was
a different extremely popular and social media.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Yeah, but that's but but look, I mean Trump, you
know they say he wasn't a politician. Trump was a politician, right,
He's a businessman. He was. He's a big time donor.
He may have been on the outside, but he was
he was in that world. We're talking about young folks
from the outside that aren't in it for money or
power or book deals that are like, hey, I got

(48:26):
a job, let me just come do you know, pass
some legislation, get some stuff through, help the people, and
go home and go back to work. But that's the
way it should be.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, But I mean that's the whole I mean, you're
talking about a unicorn man, and honestly, you know, everybody
has that intent. There's okay, not everybody, but a lot
of people do have that intent. Most people who want
to get into politics want to change and help. They're
not necessarily getting into it because they know unless they
come up from a long line, you know, within a
family that was already involved in politics. But most people
from the outside, they don't know what they're getting into.

(48:58):
I think the corruption just it just comes with a job,
and it's almost like you got to pick and choose
your battles and your poisons. I think most people start
wanting to make a change, but once you get in there,
it's I mean, it's it's a cess pullman, you know,
trying to ward all that stuff off, all all the
all the influence, all the all the money, all how

(49:18):
are everything that comes with it. It's hard to stay
the course.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
No, I get it, but that doesn't mean it can't
be done. And I mean, you know, if you just
look at innovation as a whole, it's never easy. But
so one of the guys I interviewed when I first
started my podcast was a guy former mayor by the
name of Keith Ramos in New Jersey, small town. He
got involved in the politics because he got involved with

(49:41):
politics because he went up to the current mayor at
the time after a meeting, after a public meeting, and
ask him some questions about how money was being allocated.
And the mayor turned to him and goes, you don't
ask me these kind of questions. I'm the king of
this town. And he's like, did you really just say
that to me? And he ran and he beat this

(50:05):
guy and he was able. And I can't represent what
he did eloquently enough to even try right now, but
he made a difference in his town. And I said
to him, what's next, you know, like, because you would
think now you move on right, you go a little
bit higher up the ladder, but it comes back to
just your point, and it's a lot of work. And

(50:27):
I don't you know, doesn't know if his family is
ready for it. And you know, once you dip your
toe into the bigger pool, you open yourself up to
all sorts of exposure and it's a big decision. But
this is a guy I was, a working class guy
from the outside, didn't like what a politician said to
his face and took the reins so it could be done. Oh,

(50:48):
I know. Could.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I'm not trying to be too negative about it.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I'm not saying this for your benefit. I know you
know these things. I'm saying people listening because it's the
people listening that are going to run.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
It's quite okay to have an opinion, and it's also
okay to be disenchanted about the whole situation as far
as I feel, because it's we all want better, we
all want change. I don't disagree with what you said.
Absolutely you're correct. If there's a possibility, fine, but there's

(51:19):
nothing new under the sun. I mean, like you said,
the lady that was using discord whatever. Look, it's all
that is is the delivery. It's just the way you're communicating.
But outside of that, you still have to present yourself
as someone that the people want. You got to make
people believe that you really, truly, in fact, do you
want to make the change, and you're gonna do it
on behalf of the people. And so now it comes

(51:39):
down to the reality, who's the better salesperson? Regardless of
what's in your heart, it's whoever the better sales person is.
The fact of the matter is politics is really nothing
more than a high school popularity contest. There are so
many inept people without qualifications that are voted into positions
just because oh.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I know that name.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
They look on their Oh yeah, I've heard that commercial.
You don't even know anything about the guy.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
But so you're absolutely right. But that brings it right
back to our earlier conversation about television, because TV turned
it into a popularity contest. Yes, it did. In the
era of radio, you would be able to listen to
the message, not be staring at the messenger, right, But
there's still influence in radio as well, of course, but

(52:23):
it was a huge shift to be able to now suddenly,
you know, optics literally factored in.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Are you talking about government syops?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
No, I'm just talking about the fact that as soon
as you have television and with you no I know,
but as soon as you have television the conversation just
because oh, look at him.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
No, you're right, It's it's easier to manipulate with when
you have the visual component. You can always imagine what
the person is. You know, you could drum up. It's
like reading a book, right, if you read a book,
Like movies and books are the same thing, really just
one's the visual component. But when you read the book,
you have a whole different idea of character, You have
an entire different idea of what this world is as
person lives in. And then when you see the movie,

(53:04):
that's why you're disappointed. You're like, this is not what
I read. This isn't what I drumed up in my
mind that I was getting behind, or what I loved.
And so that visual component is needed to manipulate people absolutely,
But with audio you can't. If it was just an
audio side, it's easy for the candidate to also hide
behind as well. It's it's harder to make the connection.

(53:27):
It's some people are sad enough to tell when someone's lying.
Like you just look at and you're like, this guy's yeah,
this guy's full of shit, right, you could tell at
the gate, but you know you're not wrong.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah, the visual component. It's Look, it's a big part
of marketing. It's what it is. Everything.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Everything we're talking about in campaign is just marketing and sales.
It doesn't matter what your stance is. It's how you
can sell it.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
If you know how to talk and you're eloquent, that's
what people are going to eat up. You know, it's
in the Bomb administration is a big bondministration is a
big example of that. Everybody thinks he was the best ever.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
No, he wasn't.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
He was an amazing speaker. He knew how to talk,
he knew how to present, so when he spoke, you
had to pay attention and everything he said because of
his timing, his you know, everything that he did and
how he spoke, people just ate it up. But not
everything he did was great. And I'm not here to
bash him. I'm just using him as an example of
somebody that can be a very polished, presentable person if

(54:24):
you keep your tone the way you need to keep it,
if you have a certain tone, if you have enough
pause that allows people to sit there and think. I mean, look,
it's an old trick. If I'm talking to you and
I just paused for three seconds something. I'm just going
to shake my head. That's an old sales trick. I was,
you know, I had a sales rep firm. I know
how to do all this crap. And eventually you're just
going to say the first thing on your mind.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
And you're either going to agree with me or not.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
But more than likely you're going to start agree with
me because you don't want to have that awkward moment.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah. No, And the thing with Obama, I mean you're
talking about that, that's not just Obama. I mean, look,
Obama's first term, I think he, you know, came out strong.
I think his second term was all lame duck. Obama
had great speech writers and he was a strong orator.
So you know, when that guy can get up there

(55:12):
and play the teleprompter like he's Hendricks, then yeah, it's
gonna work. Now people will some people will say Trump
is not a good messenger, but you could argue he's
a very effective messenger for all the wrong reasons. So
it just depends. I mean, part of it has to
come with the tone of the country, right. I think

(55:33):
that again we caught up to somebody like Trump or
enough people did where they're like, Okay, well we identify
with that as real talk. We'll take it. We don't
want to be spoken down to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
I think I think what it was is, I think
a lot of people felt he was saying what they
always wanted to say themselves, and he always has yeah,
And they saw someone who wasn't ones that mincing words,
wasn't holding back, like oh shit, now that's my guy.
And that was the appeal. I really was the appeal.
And yes he is a politician, but look, we're not

(56:05):
going to fix this, Royce, We're not. I like having
this conversations. I like having you know, I like having
other people's perspective and what they think of the situation.
I don't I don't know where we're going with this.
I don't know what's next. I mean, honestly, I wish
a president who was elected can just throw away the

(56:26):
party politics. I'm tired of everything being so politicized. I
want the president to actually look out for America and
look out for the people. It doesn't matter whether or
not the Republican Party is getting points to the Democratic
parties get point. I think at that point, when you
become president, you should be neutral. You should be centered, right,
That's what you should be because you've got to work
with both sides to get anything done. I don't know

(56:48):
when that's going to change, but man, we need that
so badly.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Really, I agree. I don't know how we get back
to it. And again, maybe maybe this is rock bottom
and there's nowhere to go but up. If it's not
rock bottom, then we have unfortunately a long way to go. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
So let's talk about media, because you kind of alluded
to that earlier when you're talking about podcasters and basically
everybody having this this circle of friends, right, I see
the same guys all over the place. They're all stroking
each other's egos and patting each other on the back.
And you know, I could drop names because like you
got like the Dave Smith with the Tucker Carlson's and
the Rogans, and then you know, now you have Daryl Cooper,

(57:28):
the martyr made guy. It's like, no matter what happens
with Peers Morgan, no matter what anybody says, it seems
like this whole team just jumps to their aid and goes, yeah,
you're the you're the man. And you also got Dave
Smith thinking he wins every damn argument, there is a
debate regards of what he says or what his takes are.
So I you know, the the problem I see with

(57:48):
that is, you know, it's a blatant to me, and
I don't know if everybody does intentional. But for example,
let's let's just talk about you don't have to, but
I will. Let's just talk about like Daryl Cooper, for example.
I think he's an intelligent guy. He denies he's an historian,
but then he says he is one. If someone calls
him a historian, all of a sudden he has one.
If he gets called on his shit, then all a
sudden he's not. He makes comments right, all of a sudden.

(58:10):
Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, you know, he was Okay,
he was just misunderstood. I don't understand what it is
about this revisionist history bullshit that we're going through right now.
And the reality is we could all look back one
hundred years, fifty years even and always say, you know,
we should have done it this way.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
They were wrong.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
There's a big difference of living through the time period
versus scrutinizing what has been done before you were born.
So what are your thoughts on this? To me, it
just seems like this big circle of friends are just
patting each other on the bat. They're pushing each other's narratives,
and it's like they're ganging up to keep control of media.
Because podcasting is media. Podcasting is a big business, and

(58:53):
as many people who want to think that it isn't.
I hate to break it to you, but it's an industry.
What's your thoughts on what happening lately with this movement
with these podcasters who just seem to be doing nothing
but making sure that they're the first and only voice heard,
and anybody who has an objection is suddenly a deranged
idiot that doesn't have their facts straight.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Well, the first thing I think of is like an
Ian Carroll, Okay, yeah, because when you talk about the
Holocaust and Hitler and all of these I shouldn't say all,
but a lot of these folks they they practice a
how can I say this, They practice a faux intellectual curiosity. Okay,

(59:40):
So it becomes okay to ask questions in their mind,
all right, and in the in the guise of well,
we don't know this and we don't know that, and
it becomes this fake intellectual curiosity, but it's very, very dangerous,
and they love to do that when it comes to
the Holocaust and anti Semitism. Okay, I think from the

(01:00:06):
independent content creator journalist perspective, I don't think there's much
of a thing as an independent content creator. If you
go look at most of these folks, the big ones,
not all a lot of them. They trace back to
night coo okay, they trace back to Chernin, Peter Chernan's

(01:00:28):
Churning Group, which is backed by Katari money, the Qia Okay,
Chernin has investment. The Churning Group has investments in Spotify,
which obviously has a deal with Brogan. They're invested in Nightco,
which manages Chi Senate and Hassan I believe, and the
Costco guys. So when you see all these independent creators,

(01:00:51):
whether we're talking politics or we're just talking creators, they're
generally being funded and managed by only a handful of people.
They have the illusion of independent. Go down that rabbit
hole of Nightco. I think it was his name, Red Rusher,
Go down that rabbit hole of Nightco and Churning Group,
and you see how much of that money is all

(01:01:12):
that those independent companies funnel back to that money.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I think you think it's just being controlled by just
a small handful of people, like, here's the personality we
can get behind this guy, and now once they got
him to a certain level, they're just controlling the narrative.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
No, I don't think it's that thought out. I think
it's more like, no, I really don't. I think it's
more like, this is business and we don't really give
a ship what people are saying on either side as
long as they're keeping things murky and people arguing, right, okay,
because at the top, none of this exists. They're all
all these politicians on both sides of the aisle are

(01:01:49):
doing blow and shots on K Street together. Okay, to
go back to Gavin Newsom, Gavin Newsom's ex wife was
dating Donald Junior Trump Junior. Yeah, okay, it's all everybody's.
Everybody's hanging out. Okay. So at a certain level, they're
all they're all in there in their one percent club,

(01:02:10):
all right, and we're stuck playing this this game of
party politics or identity politics, or whatever you want to
call it. And I and I just think that we
were blinded by that because at the end of the day. Uh,
it's it's are there people out there trying to do
an independent thing? Yes, I don't think that the controlled

(01:02:33):
independent media is necessarily being handed a narrative. But I
think when the people at the top are making money
off of whatever they're saying, they don't give a shit
what they're saying because ultimately they get the final word
because they control the purse strings. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
But these guys are also extremely disingenuous. Oh yeah, because
Sean Ryan, for example, I remember watching one of his
appearances on Talker for example, the whole time, I'm not
in it for the money. I hate the money. I'll
never do it at the And on the other hand, oh,
I'm building this multimillion dollar studio.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Well, which is it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
You want to do it or you don't want to
do You're in it for the money or not. If
you didn't care, why are you putting so much investment
of your time and money into this thing? Like it
doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, there's a lot of people like that come to
mind that you're just in this for money, you know,
because if you all got together and actually wanted to
affect something, you could, but you don't want to erode
your revenue. I mean, there are some people out there.
I like that. There's some that I can think of,
and I really I don't want to get in the
pointing fingers because some of these people I kind of

(01:03:44):
have dealt with in the past, so I don't feel
like blowing that up yet yet. But there's some organizations
out there that went from anti Trump to fundraising off
of that too. Now we're a media company and we're
no longer a pack and you're like, oh, so this

(01:04:04):
whole thing was just a scheme to launch a media enterprise,
and now all you did was fundraise to build prop
up your quote unquote independent media outlet, you know, and
now you're out there continuing that grift. Yeah, well the
grift is real. Listen, I've been accused of grifting. I'm
a live streamer from TikTok. That's all I've been accused

(01:04:26):
of is grifting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It's okay, it's it's and it's not for me to
get you to talk badly about anyone in particular. But
you know, I don't have a problem calling out people.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I never have.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
I can care less because the reality is somebody has
to and there's people out there they say stuff about
me too, like who cares? You know, at some point
you've got to be able to stand for truth if
you can, or the truth we know anyway, because again,
you know, it's like like I said, everything that we
know in our assessments, in our opinions are only as
good as the information we get period. You know, And

(01:04:58):
I've always said, we're you know, right today, wrong tomorrow
always happens.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
You're never going to be in Yeah, you're never going
to be information. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
So but when I when I when I see what
you just mentioned, the Grift for example, when I see
someone like and I'll just keep drumming it because I
can care less about what this guy thinks. But let's
say like a Dave Smith. And it's not because I
hate him, I don't. I actually I respected his intelligence.
I thought he was great when he first came out,
But now you can clearly see it's like he's just

(01:05:27):
kind of just going with what works.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
It's it's always the same argument, the same thing. We
don't have to stay on him. I just use him
as an example. No, but but and I don't really
know much about him.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
I know the name. But let me ask you this. No,
I'm just using him as an example. Yeah, but let
me ask you from the from the perspective of grifting. Yeah,
isn't it really all about perceived value? And I can
argue both sides of this, But isn't it really about
like how how many people pay for Netflix and do
nothing but scroll the menu and never why you look
at forty things like I think I'll watch nothing, I'll

(01:05:58):
just go to bed. So is that a grift? I mean,
if you pay it and never use it, is it
a grift? So I think that if people are grabbing
their information from a Joe Walsh okay, and he's becoming
their news source, then is it so wrong that they

(01:06:18):
choose to subscribe to him and help bankroll him. I
think the problem I have is that there's such an
oversaturation of this stuff that people just get further siloed. Well, So.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
I say, what a grift is my opinion and the
way I see it and understand it is when someone
is literally disingenuous. Okay, there's someone who doesn't necessarily believe
in all the bullshit that they're spewing, but they said something,
they presented something that got them the attention. Now they
know what works, and now they just keep spitting out

(01:06:55):
and spewing the same old crap over and over because
they know that that formula is going to get them
the eyeballs. Those are grifters in the in the most
literal sense. Yes, so that that's my take on it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
I don't care that someone iurological guy. I mean the
Internet trolls, they consider what we're doing right now grift.
Oh yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, I understand,
but I don't. I don't have I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
I don't care that someone makes money. I mean, why
should you not be able to earn a living doing
what you like. I'm not against that whatsoever. I was
what I meant by a grift is exactly what I said,
or just just now in how I defined it is.
It's like, look, dude, you know you don't really believe
in what you're saying because just three years ago, just

(01:07:41):
three years ago, and I don't even say names were
just hypothetically you said Trump was was an asshole. Now
you're licking his boots. That's a grifter, because now licking
Trump's boots is what gets him paid. Okay, I get
you gotta pay bills, but the reasons you're doing it,
I'm sorry. You are being disingenuous. You are grifting, and
that's what a grifter is, and so that's what I'm

(01:08:01):
talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
I'm not talking you consider JD. Vance a grifter? You
know what. I think he is. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I definitely think he's biden his time. I think he
is probably to be honest, if I had to say, yeah,
I think he is kind of a grifter. He is
someone who jumped on the ticket. I think he's using
Trump to get where he needs to go. But I
don't know if he believes in everything that Trump does whatsoever.
I really don't think I think Vance is the cleanup guy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Because you were like describing all that, and I'm like,
you are painting the picture of JD. Vance. That's that's
what That's what I see. That's just what I see.
I I agree with you. He's intelligent. He is. He is,
He's very intelligent. But I don't believe he's bought in.
I just don't. I I think that it's the same
thing with Marco Rubio. You know, I can see that definitely,

(01:08:55):
these guys are in it for their career advancement. Unlike
a guy like Pete Hegseth, who is in it? Because
how do I turn down this opportunity? Of course I'm
gonna take it. And then he gets it, he goes,
this is a lot of work. I think I'll have
a drink, right, you know, did you see the video
of him with the drone delivering up the document? Like

(01:09:19):
what are we doing? It's fun even your videos, like
you said, you have to laugh, yeah, but like it what?
First of all, there's nothing impressive about a drone carrying
a payload of one sheet of paper. No, like like
what it should have been is a document like like
like like gorilla taped to a concrete block. Okay, and

(01:09:42):
the drone flies in a concrete block and he takes
the paper off the block. But there's nothing impressive about
a drone flying in a piece of paper. That doesn't
say masculinity. That's his small penis. That's like that makes
me think of Andrew Tait. When I think of small penis,
I think of Andrew Tate. Get me started on that guy.
I'm trying to because you can't stand him. Listen. I

(01:10:04):
wish you remember pay per view in the nineties. I
would love to get in the ring with that guy.
I don't care if I lose. I just want to
punch him in the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Face, right, you know he brought him up. Let's talk
about Tate like. I'm gonna let you start it because
you obviously have a lot to say.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
I just think he's got a small penis and I look,
the only reason I can say this is because he's
he's jumping around in that little bikini all the time.
I'm not asking to see these photos, he's putting them
out there. I'm like you, there's nothing about you that
says man. You are like an AI generated version of masculinity.
I can agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
I think I think the guy is just a h
He's just a scammer. Literally, well, he's a grifter. I mean,
come on, is his his online university?

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Have you ever looked at that crap? Only to the
extent that I know would exists? But no, I haven't
like signed up if that's what you're asking. Oh no, no,
I wasn't asking. I'm not sure where you go. No,
but look, have these stupid courses on how you can
make money? I got a webcam, girls and all that shit.
The paper route you're doing it wrong, you know, shit

(01:11:07):
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
I know I'm being facetious, but just saying it's like,
it's that bad and people buy into this crap and
they said, I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Would have you wouldn't do the web girl the webcam business.
You got like eight girls to do webcams, and you
sit around and driving a nice car and sitting in
a bikini drinking whatever he's drinking. I got life.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Well, yeah, it's imagine being then insecure that that's what
you have to do. It's it's the problem is that
he is presenting that as the life that a man
should have. I mean, that's your thing, great, that's you whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
No, I know you were, but I know there's always
that one out there who's like, oh wow, he's really
into me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I think it's just so ridiculous that that these young,
younger men are buying into this, Like if he is
the beacon of manhood, we're in trouble. I'm sorry. There's
nothing masculine as you said about him. He is absolutely drifting.
He's he's just really manipulating and molding young people's minds
to believe that if you act like me, you treat
women badly and you make bad investments that you're you're

(01:12:09):
gonna be a great person, You're gonna be successful individual.
Everything he's doing is just look, it's a house of cards.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Man. He know it's weak. He's a weak person. He
is weak, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
And and and sure, when he gets mad enough, all
of a sudden, it's like, oh, you know, let's get
in the ring. Like, bro, listen, that ship sailed. Sure,
that's that's when his lisp starts flying.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah. Yeah, And I can only make fun of that
because I had a lisp as a kid. So don't
come for me because I overcame it. He didn't. And
then he gets really upset and he's like, dolls'll get
in the bring, would you okay, I'll beat you up.
British comes out. Yeah, like you know what he looks like.
He looks like like if Bam Bam from the Flintstone

(01:12:49):
grew up, but like never saw a therapist, you know
what I mean? Because he's like he's like bam bam
like and I can't get that out of my head. Yeah,
give him, give him like a giant drum stickers to
the chicken wing and uh and put them in one
of those Cocta things and it looks chromagnom so so
we were Box Adventure from Turbographics. Remember Box Adventures? Yes,

(01:13:13):
I remember that ship. You're going back? Hey? What what?
What is?

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
What are your thoughts that I have thoughts? We probably
were very much on the same page with this guy. Uh,
what were your thoughts about these podcasts, these conservative podcasts
that got behind this guy and platform him and gave
him the ability to do this podcast too? Like why
why is Patrick pick David having someone like him? You
know that that made no sense to me? Like there

(01:13:38):
there were there were, there was everybody. Yeah, Cannas owns
behind him, like she's gone off the deband anyway. But
I'm just saying that what what what was behind that
in your mind?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Like why? I mean, did they need the money that bad?

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
They need the eyeballs that bad that they would lower
their standards enough to platform this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
It's all self interested again. And Cannas Owen's husband is
like best friends with Andrew Tape, so so there's there's
real connections there, and I think sometimes you just do
it to save phase, you know, And it's all about clout, right,
It's all about clout, which is why people play the circles.
You know, you're talking a lot about folks on the

(01:14:16):
the conservative leaning side, and I can think of a
lot of people on the left leaning side of things
that do the same things. I mean, like Lev Parness
and Michael Cohen, Like how many times do these guys
need to go live on a podcast and talk to
the same twelve people? Like how much more does Michael
Cohen have to offer this world? Or is he just

(01:14:37):
there to get his five bucks a month. I don't know,
I don't know. You know, a great point, it really is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
It seems like the ability for since we're talking about
podcasting now, the ability for anybody who has the hope
in the dream to build.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Something as.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
An independent podcaster. It seems like the window of opportunity
of the doors just being close to you. Because in
the beginning was the wild West, like anybody could just
get in there. Anybody can get in there and become,
you know, some a bit of a success in terms
of a following right right in the beginning, there wasn't
as many options. But now we're looking at what was

(01:15:15):
it they said last report, over five million podcasts out there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
It doesn't mean all of them are active, but Still
you got a huge saturation of choices, and who's going
to be presented to you when you open your app?
You know they and these apps are like okay, like Apple, Spotify. Look,
I've done enough in business to understand how it works.
I've been in sales. I understand how this works.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
They deny that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
No, no, no, we don't take money. There's no such thing.
These people all play the game bullshit. You guys are
all lying. They all got big pockets behind them. The
only reason that every time you open Apple, for example,
and you see let's say, hot Save America is because
there's enough money to keep them on the front page,
just not because of their damn downloads.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Look, there was a time I was in the top
one hundred in politics on Apple and most people probably
even know who I am. You didn't see me on
every Apple splash page right when you open it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
No you didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
So it's a bunch of lies and manipulation and bullshit.
And it's unfortunate that you have voices out there like
I personally, Royce, I don't know what you do, but
I don't even listen to a lot of big guys anymore.
Unless there's like a certain interview I want to hear.
I support a lot of independence. I really do, because
there's a lot of good quality independent podcasters out there
who are going to do the work. They're going to
do the deep dive. They have other jobs and in

(01:16:30):
their spare time, they are really putting their all into this,
and I respect those people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
I'm one of those people period, You know, I am.
This isn't This isn't where I make my money. You know,
I make my money elsewhere. But I love doing this
and I felt that I had a voice, so I said, hey,
let me go ahead and do what I can. And
on some episodes, man, I sound like an encyclopedia because
I will dig that deep.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I get highper focused.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
So I think that, you know, the window of opportunity, unfortunately,
is getting narrower, and it's very sad to see that
this has become an industry. I have a person I
know that has been podcasting for a very long time,
and you knows some people that are in the industry
that are pretty well known people, and he still wants
to hold on to the fact. He looks at it
as you know, it's just like bands, you know, it's

(01:17:15):
just like being in a band and all of this.
You know, it's not an industry. It's punk rock.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Now. I'm sorry, it's not anymore. And that's unfortunately. I
wish it wasn't. That was not the truth, but it is.
It really is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
So how does because you've been doing this for a
long time, how does someone become successful? And that could
be many things. It doesn't necessarily mean rich, But how
would you be able to be able to get your
voice heard and also be able to do this for
a living to where you know, maybe you make enough
to keep it going?

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
For example, how to set that I could tell I
mean I had for the post pandemic, I made a
living live streaming on TikTok, and you could look at
the metrics on TikTok and my success on TikTok and
think that it was really, really imporant pgressive. But as
soon as you took it out of that ecosystem, it
didn't scale, it didn't carry over into other platforms. I

(01:18:08):
have decided to break it in pursuit of growing further,
much along the same thought process of what you're asking,
because it comes down to if you're really gonna do this,
and if you've done it long enough that you're now
in it, And I'm like, oh, okay, well I didn't

(01:18:29):
expect to still be here and now I'm here, So
now what's next. I can't do this forever. So that's
the evolution, right, And if you're going to stick with
it the most. Look, I've gotten to the point where
I'm like, I just you're gonna get all of me. Okay,
there was a time when you wouldn't. You're gonna get
all of me. And if I lose followers, so be it.

(01:18:50):
But I'm hoping that I have five hundred really really
passionate people that are interested about anything that I have
going on, that they can help lift up anything that
I have going on. And I think that that's the
long term proposition. You know, I have six hundred and
fifty thousand followers on TikTok, but if I go live,

(01:19:11):
there might only be two hundred people watching any given home.
It's all bullshit, right. So then I go over to
my sub stack and my core people are there, and
those are the people that are on my Twitch and
my youth They're everywhere. So I think that part of
it has to be as weird as this sounds. It
has to be not focusing on the money that's short term.

(01:19:33):
You have to go long term and build something that
provides value for people. When I'm not live, people want
me to go live. I mean, I used to provide
a very specific type of stream. But now the people
that I have gotten rid of and the people that
I have kind of whittled it down to, don't just
watch me sit here and do like what I'll call

(01:19:55):
office hours where I'm like, guys, I just got to
go through notes and clean off my desk, but I
haven't been live today. And and if I went to
the parks where I used to stream, and I pay
and I played the game, I can make hundreds of dollars.
But I got to work the leaderboards and work the
gifting and do the whole thing. So that's short term money,

(01:20:16):
which is nice, yes, But I'm now, folks correct, So
now it's more valuable to be like, guys, I didn't
make it to the park today, but let me show
you what I've been working on, you know, So now
they're on the ride with you, and it's it's it's
it's a lot more work to do it that way,
and a lot of people said, just stick to doing

(01:20:36):
the dumb ship. Just stick to do and I'm like,
I don't want to spend the rest of my life
doing that. So to answer your question is how do
you how do you make a day like you? It's
not about getting tons of you right, It's about speaking
to the people that are listening. It's not it's it's
it's having it. Not speaking down to them, it's speaking
to them, speaking with them. So I think I think

(01:20:58):
that if you can find a way to sustain that,
then maybe you break through. I got to tell you
sometimes when you were describing this at the top of
the show about like you know, hitting that benchmark and
then having all that, and I'm like, it doesn't even
sound appealing at this age, like I've had I've had
a slice of it on TikTok, Like it's not appealing,

(01:21:19):
Like I'm not I'm not doing what I'm doing these
days reviews. I'm doing it to keep that core audience
going on these new endeavors. I could give a ship.
I mean, I get if somebody comes in a gains
me hard, I'm like, just don't don't fucking watch me,
Like I don't, I don't care. But but but you know,

(01:21:39):
like when, why weren't you in the park the other day?

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
I was, Oh I missed it? Well, who why the
fuck are you asking me? Right? Like, like if you
come into my life, I go, where were you? I
was working? Why the fuck were you working? Why weren't
you watching my live? Asshole? Like it's it sounds pretty
ridiculous when you flip the scrap. I hope I answered
your question. I know it just ranted a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Well no, no, no, no, no, that's all. It's all
valid information. I mean, is your experiences right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
I I want to make it clear, like I believe
anybody in.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
This space, for example, to me, be who you are.
Don't put on a front nothing. I hate nothing more
than watching somebody who's a character. Okay, now, unless you're
specifically putting it out there that it's entertainment, fair enough,
I know what I'm getting into. But you know, if
you're in the news, commentary, space, politics, anything like that,

(01:22:32):
which is really hot right now, don't don't don't be
something you're not. Just don't be something you're not. I
can't stand fake. That's that's what that's how you're.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Going to break through. But you still need to play into. Unfortunately,
you still have to play into the clickbait world if
you really want to. I understand I don't like doing it,
and I'm on your side. I agree with you. I'm
I'm against it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
But you know, everything I was saying earlier really had
to do with you know, I I see people get
so bent out of shape in his heart and when
they're like they're inspired and they're like, I'm going to
do this too, and then they get into it and
they feel, like you said, they've got to reach a
certain threshold.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
I need ten thousand downloads, I need twenty thousand. I
need one hundred thousand, and it's like, give a shit.
You know, I like doing this more than I like
doing my own podcast. Yeah, you want to know why,
because when this is over, I'm gonna go smoke a
bowl and not have to edit shit. I'm not gonna
have to edit shit, right, you know what I mean?
And I can curse over here. I don't have to
care about here losing a follower. This is your fucking problem.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Yeah, well, everybody, Look, everybody, this is the my damn
show there. You know, I got a filthy mouth, so
it doesn't even matter.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
But my audios will hear this and be like, oh man,
why does he act this way on his podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
Yeah, and you've got to listen more. I like I
like having the conversations though words. I like having the
opportunity to have someone open up and just let go.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
I really do. I think there's more value in that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
I think you learn from somebody a lot more instead
of trying to play the persona and try to stay
within the guardbe. I mean, if you can't speak your mind,
then we're not having real conversation. We're just not You
should be able to express yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
But then it does to means you're doing it for
the wrong reasons, and that goes back to the whole
grifter thing, because you're if you're there. So when I started,
not to bring it back to what I was doing
on TikTok, but when I started doing what I was doing,
I was front of trend. A lot of people started
doing it because they saw what I was doing and
I was doing it with success. I originally started doing

(01:24:26):
it for my own mental health escape, and I think
because I was just having fun and being me that
people latched onto it. But I maintained an air of professionalism.
What has happened over the years is there's nothing left
to do. So now I just satirize it and let
it rip all day and just look for the punchline,
you know what I mean. Because it's an oversaturated market,

(01:24:48):
so there's nothing left because now everybody's doing it for
the clout, and and I'm like, man, I've been doing
this so damn long. I've seen it all, I've done
it all. There's nothing left to do but to completely flip.
So with that being said, where where is the grift?

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
As you said, like, where where would it be that
you would be grifting?

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
How am I a grifter? No? You're saying, no, no, no, no,
that's the question. That's I don't care. Okay, I listen.
Reddit would tell you I'm a grifter because of the
gifting on TikTok. But I would tell you a lot
of those people on Reddit are just jealous that I
get to make money going with Disney World. Oh I
thought I thought you were.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
You're alluding to maybe because for example, you can act
one way on a show like mine, but then on yours,
you you have to be a different person.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
No, if people don't understand persona that's them. Gotcha? What what?

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
What I used to do in the early days about
being professional was I didn't express my opinions as much
as you know I didn't. I didn't I didn't say
what I was thinking. Now I say whatever I want.
I choose my words carefully right, so that if people
are only half listening, they're not going to know what
I'm saying. But to those that have, you know, anything

(01:25:57):
above an eighth grade reading level, I can get was
saying things in a family friendly manner and rip somebody
to shit, right. So so, but it was a natural
evolution of like showing all of myself. It's not that
I wasn't being authentic in the beginning. I was still
being me, but I I took the gloves off because

(01:26:18):
there was nothing left to do and it became an
oversaturated market. So again, how do you differentiate yourself? How
do you you know it goes back to the idea
of the purple elephant, if you're familiar with that marketing term.
So how do you differentiate yourself in a world of
podcasting now? When everything on YouTube is a face like this,
like yours, right, I'm I call to me. You know

(01:26:41):
what this is like you're an audio guy. This is
like phase two of podcasting, because podcasting had a boom.
This is the phase two boom of podcasting. This is
like when mini disc came back the second time. So
that's what this is, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Yeah, yeah, well I I understand what you're getting at.
In my perspective, I'm I am what you see man,
You know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
I don't. I don't believe in being that different person.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
The only thing this does for me when I get
on the mic and I got the earbuds or whatever
the hell it is, I get focused.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
It's just like me having a drink right loosens me
up a bit, and now I can have a conversation
without inhibition because now I'm just focusing on you. I
know that I hit the record button and I got
to get here to this space where I can listen
hopefully say something that has any value.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
But and sometimes I'm playing mental.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Judo with people, you know, But I am who I am,
you know, And you're right, there's a lot of guys
that may look like me, but really, you know, for me,
like I'm a working person, you know, I work with
my hands. I work in the trades. I do a
vent production.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
You know, I'm in it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Sometimes I get here and this is what I look
like because I ain't got time to polish up and
put a suit.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Can I wear one? Absolutely? I love it?

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
But right now, hey, I'm more concerned about having a
good conversation and making sure that people can hear what
we're talking about. So will will this change someday?

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
Possibly? Who knows? But for the amendment, I just I
didn't take it. But I'm just talking about But I'm
saying the world we're living in, it's microphone phase chair square. Well, No,
there's guys like this, this is come on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
There's there's the ex military guy with the hat and
the tight shirt, and you know that there's a lot
of that going around right now. And they think it's
because it's cool and it's this whole manisphere thing. It's like,
you know, it's it's just a stick.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
It really is. It's all it is. But when you're
what we're doing right here, and I will tell you
because when I'm listening to you and then when I'm
responding to you, I'm in the zone right now, like
I'm in a I'm gonna. I'm in a a dialed
in thing right now where I am. I am focused
on listening to what you're saying. I'm trying to build
my thoughts and to the to the point that I

(01:28:58):
start going like from my heart, and when I'm done,
I'm like, Man, I hope that made sense because that
really just came from the soul, you know, because I'm
in the zone.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Yeah, but you got you got to put it out there, man,
you know, that's the whole that's the beauty of these
type of conversations. You have to let it go and
you have to get it out there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
But you can't do that if you're trying to hold
up a fake front. It's impossible, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
And that's that's the issue that I'm having right now
with the podcasting world, and it's become such a big
thing and it's so influential that it's leading people in
the wrong direction. I believe there's a lot of intentional
misinformation or you know, like you said earlier, there's like
a handful of companies or whatever that control most of

(01:29:43):
the narrative because of the money behind it, and that
individual when they started may not have wanted to be
that person, but now they're too deep. It's like, you know,
going back to what we're talking about earlier, do you
want to get rid of the money or the power?
You're kind of stuck in this situation. It's like, well
what do I do to I go back to poverty,
go back to you know, washing dish?

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Like how do I have my cake and eat it too?
Is that possible? Not to bring it back to Bongino,
But I mean, he really is the perfect example. I
mean I almost empathize with the guy, you know what
I mean, in a weird way. I mean, first of all,
was he was secret service for Obama? Yes? Okay, so
like let's not even politicize the man for a half
a second. Let's just talk about him as a podcaster, right,

(01:30:22):
Like you you had a really good thing going, why
would you leave it? Because you would be a fool
to not take that opportunity, Like if you and I
were given that opportunity, you'd be a fool not to
take it because it's once in a lifetime. But then
you get there and you find out the grass isn't
always green, and that's truth.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
There's there's nothing much truth in what you said because
you only have one life, and how many opportunities do
you ever really get?

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
You know, would you rather live with the doubt? Would
you rather live with the doubt or did you really
regret it? Though I will yes, you would.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Everybody regrets the decision to not pursue, and many of
us may not even pursue something because of the fear.
And there's also the imposter syndrome. Maybe we don't believe
like we belong in that position, or or that we
need we should be the person in that in that
position taking advantage of the opportunity. So a lot, a lot,
a lot of what holds people back. I believe it's

(01:31:16):
both fear and imposter syndrome. If it's not fear, it's
imposter syndrome. There's very few people that can be confident
enough to walk out there into any situation and go,
you know what, no matter what, I'm going to be
me and I'm taking this.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
I'm taking this. Not many people do.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
And it's it's and it's not it's not to put
anybody down who feels the way that I just describe,
because there's times we all feel that way. There's times
we all feel that way. I've had job offers where
I'm like, you know what, the money's good, but this
isn't me. The sain't my wheelhouse, you know, just like
I'm not going to be that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:31:47):
I just knew it right, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
So again it wasn't I wasn't trying to talk down
to anybody who may feel like, oh I don't ever
fit in. I'm not going to take that step. There's
a lot of fear. I've always had the entrepreneurial spirit.
I've never been afraid to take a chance. I've risked money,
I've risked all that you have to and I'm I'm
not some multi millionaire by the way, but I think
I did pretty well for myself considering. And the reality is,

(01:32:10):
you're gonna hear a hundred no's. You only need one
yes man, you really do the basic principles of sales.
I've always I've always taken personally, like even with my
sales teams when I used to have the company, is like,
I don't care, you're gonna hear on a hundred knows.
You've got to keep knocking those doors you've got. If
you're not trying, you're not progressing. And if you're always doubting,
You're not even gonna try. You're gonna live until you've
cold called. I mean until you have cold called in life. Then,

(01:32:33):
because once you've gotten through the rejection of a cold
call and then also had the success of a cold call,
that you could take nose all day long.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
Sure, Kirby vacuums cut co all that. I mean, it's
just like it's it's you know, look so and again
I don't want to harp on the Bongino thing, but
my last point to that is that the fear, the
fear of of regret by not taking that job. Okay,

(01:33:04):
I don't think now if I was in that position
and decided to leave, that I would regret taking the job.
I may go, oh, I'm leaving now, this isn't what
I thought. But I think the deeper regret is not knowing.
So you take that leap and you take that opportunity.
But to bring it back to the point of failure
is most people they shut down after a failure and

(01:33:27):
they don't realize that that failure is necessary. So then
the failure becomes the thing that is the roadblock. When
failure is actually a necessity. Failures is a litmus test
for success.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
Well, they don't ever want to feel that embarrassment again,
so they avoid conflict, they avoid struggle.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
But failure is not doing it, not failing at trying.
Failing at not trying is success in its own even
if it look most businesses, as you well know, were
berthed out of a completely different thing. Before Lego was Lego,
they were making wooden toys. Nintendo was a card company.
So you know, you you you fail at one thing,
it's it's it's the it's the not doing that is

(01:34:08):
the failure. Yeah, And I hope people listening hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
I completely agree, And that's that's what I was getting at.
That just probably didn't communicate it, No.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
You did, you did. I just I love harping on
that because I think that we live in a fear
based culture, whether it's executive level decision making or or
whether it's just even the fear of of offending. Like
you're not going to say anything in this conversation to
offend me, right, you know what I mean? And I'm
get I'm reading from you that it's probably the same

(01:34:37):
for you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I'm good man, you know, I just look, I just
had I don't know if you heard of him, Derek Gilliard.
He served under the first Trump administration. He was part
of HHS twenty five years and he wrote this book.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
I think it was uh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
I just had him yesterday too, longest four years of
his life, as he calls it, his perspective of working
in the Trumpet administration as a black man. And we
had this long conversation and we we broke through barriers.
We talked about race, we talked about racial stereotypes. He
asked me straight up, he is a white guy. Let
me ask you why there's so many white people that

(01:35:17):
shoot up schools and whatnot. And I'm like, happy to
happy to address that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
You know, you can't. You can't be afraid to have
those discussions. You really can't.

Speaker 1 (01:35:27):
I have a file on that one, right, But you
can't be afraid to have these discussions. You know, if
you're afraid of being offended, you're not going to progress
and learn.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
You're just not. I think it's boring to have a
conversation where all we're doing is agreeing. Why do I
want to have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
I mean, look, I've had many many conversations where I
don't agree with everything everyone says. But at least you know,
if you're intelligent enough of a person, I should walk
away understanding your perspective. And I should walk away with
an understanding that I know why you think the way
you It doesn't mean you're stupid. I just understand why
you think the way you do. I can now say, okay,

(01:36:06):
the way you lived, what you went through, Now I
get it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
I didn't understand it before, and that's that's important to me.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
It really is. And I like learning.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
I mean, one of the things I enjoy about having
this conversations Royce, is I always walk away learning something.
I'm always hungry for knowledge. I'm always diving deep and
going down these rabbit holes. But I like coming away
from conversations where I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
Like, damn, I didn't look at it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
Or you might tell me something like you know earlier,
when you were just talking about the lady that ran
that discord, Now I now I got to go look
at who.

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
This person was, like things like that. But I do
like learning.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
I like coming away with knowing that this conversation was
worth it because there was value in it, because we
both walked away with some insight that we didn't have before,
and that's what I like about this. And so even
on on what I do Royce like, I listened to
quite a bit of your podcast recently, knowing that you
were going to be coming on, so I wanted to
hear more where you're coming from. But even with me,

(01:37:02):
a lot of when I first started, a lot of
people had this thing where it's like, oh, he's the
Maga guy, He's the Trump Trumpster guy. And my guests
were never really like the conservative trumpters guys. I've had
most people that were on the liberal or democratic side.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
I just talked to a psychologists who was a hardcore liberal.
He wanted to start a fight with me verbally in
a nice way. I didn't let it get that way,
and then we both ended up coming to understand that
we agree on more than we disagree. Because when you
take politics out of it and you just talk about
things that human beings need to deal with, you find
out that, damn, we're all pretty freaking similar.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
We really are. Well, most people want the same things right.
They want mentally, they want to be viable, financially viable,
they want health, they want to leave this place in
a better condition. For their children and their children's children.
It's just how they choose to get there. Yeah, voices made, Yeah,
who but who I mean, show me somebody who doesn't
want those things. Everybody generally has the same desires. It's

(01:38:04):
how you get there. I have to tell you this
really quick because you're talking about all these all these
different folks and I so I'm doing the substack thing now,
you know. Like I said, I broke TikTok and I'm
building up substack and we've hit the Substack leaderboard thirty
five and Rising News whatever eighty three. Cool. It's not

(01:38:25):
based off of gifting and money. It's based off of
engagement and followers and all that. So it's nice. It's
a different proposition and I like it, and I'm trying
to get people on, but I don't want the same
five names, some of whom we've mentioned. So I find
this kid on the leaderboard okay, because I was like, oh,
this is the best place to go go with contemporaries.

(01:38:46):
They'll see that you're up there doing your thing and
young journalists. Okay, black kid. And I only say that
because it's like, like, I couldn't be more of an
ally buddy but okay, fine, so he's supposed to come
on the podcast. I send him the link like an
hour two hours before the show, and he goes, Royce,
I can no longer do your show. The way you

(01:39:08):
have characterized Trump's victories in your recent articles is absolutely abhorrent.
And I am a journalist, but I am also a
human being, and I wrote back, Trump's victories don't necessarily
correlate to victories for all American people, and he blocked me,

(01:39:29):
and I'm like, this is wild, Like this is a
very true statement you made. Though it's true, it's true
what I said or what he said, what you said.
I just I'm like, dude, I'm trying to have a
conversation with you. First of all, you're not a journalist.
None of us are. Okay, even the people who call
themselves a journalist on TV are not journalists. The commentators journalists,
they're talking heads. Man, probably are so, but this kid's

(01:39:52):
not a journalist. Number one and number two. Trump has
had a string of victories politically speaking, how how are
you if you can't admit that you could talk about
the negative effects of these victories, but politically he's had victories. Yeah,
if you can't admit that you're not objective, right.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
I mean, you're not necessarily saying you need to like
this guy because of these victories. They may not be
the victories you want, but he did have them. I
wanted to hear what was of concern to this guy,
and that made me. I'm like, you know what, this
is the problem. You can't talk to and I'm an independent.
You can't talk to anybody on the left. They don't

(01:40:31):
it's their way or no way.

Speaker 2 (01:40:33):
I've been fortunate enough to have some though, and I
don't I don't know what it is. I tend.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
I tend to like in this conversation, you know where
we have a lot of back and forth, but there's
a lot of times where I let them talk. I
want them to reveal who they are so I can
understan where they're coming from before I form an opinion,
because you know, I could be very reaction, but it
could just go down the wrong road. I might be
creating a bad situation for me and my guests if

(01:41:02):
I just if he says, you know, listen, he says,
you know, fuck the Republicans this in this and you
guys are war hawks whatever. I don't even care about that,
but just saying then I could be re reactioning to like, hey,
screw you this whatever that gets us nowhere. Let me
let me let this person talk, let me let them
get it out, because the more you talk, the more

(01:41:22):
we're going to come to a place where we can
actually start having the conversation. And then now we're going
to find out that we both hate politics.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
You know, there's nothing you said in this conversation that
I have disagreed with, And there's nothing you've said in
this conversation that makes me think you're maga or conservative.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
Well that's the stereotype. But I'm just saying fair enough.
I appreciate I try to stay centrist.

Speaker 2 (01:41:50):
I try to. There's times that I do.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
I mean, I'll be honest, I do lean more right,
But I don't think either side is one hundred percent right.
They both have their problems. They're both fricking crazy. Let's
just be honest. Man, You get into the extreme sides
of both of them, is like, wow, where what world
do you guys live in?

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
Well that's the horseshoe.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Yes, yes, funny that was just brought up recently with
someone else else talking about talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
That so you know, I don't know where all this
is going.

Speaker 1 (01:42:21):
I just know that what I see out there is
is a lot of frustrated individuals, including myself, because we
all want change, but it just doesn't seem that, you know,
as you said, or in the deep state, they don't
want to give up their position, they don't want to
give up what they're doing, and we're just always going
to be arguing over stuff out of our control. You know,
there's people who get so obsessed about it that they

(01:42:43):
get sick from it, just from the stress. You know,
they can't even get through their day without going on
X or you know, Blue Sky or whatever app they
choose to be on and just spewing whatever opinion they have.
And it's like, man, a perfect example of that for me.
By the way, I'm not gonna name names, but where
I live, and you know, I have frequently in the

(01:43:06):
Bay Area many times, especially for business. I went to
school out there in San Jose for some time. And
the reality is it's a whole different world. It's a
whole different world, and it got to the point where
it's so far left that if you say anything that
is outside of the group, think you're a Trumpster. It

(01:43:27):
got so bad that one day a friend of mine
saw me wearing a hat that just had an American
flag and they called me trumpy. I'm like, what does
the American flag have to do with Trump? It represents
the United States of America, you know, the country in
which you reside, the country on which you are a citizen,
the country in which you are benefiting from its protections
and a sovereignty. What does that have to do with Trump?

(01:43:50):
And that's where we have gotten And that's what I'm
concerned with, is that there's too many people living on
the surface of the headline.

Speaker 2 (01:43:59):
They don't want to deeper.

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
They just believe whatever it is that their favorite morning
show is telling them and taking it for face value.
And it never It really wasn't that bad before people
were They used to think for themselves. And I don't
know if they're just so busy that they don't want
to take the time to do so anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
I don't think it's that they're busy. I think that
you know, there used to be a term second screen. Okay,
I haven't heard it see second screen? So yeah, second
screen was a term. You know, Oh, you're watching TV.
Have your iPad out that's your second screen. Oh okay,
got it? Okay, so second screen viewing and all this.
We are long past second screen. People have the news

(01:44:36):
on with music playing in the background, and they're scrolling
Twitter on their iPhone. So I think a lot of
it has to do with hyper consumption and the spread
of information too fast. So when you take social media
and you pair it with you know, a Steve Bannon
strategy like flooding the zone with shit right, it makes

(01:44:59):
it very very hard card to you know, the headline,
to your point, always gets the most noise. It makes
it very very hard to fact check anything because people
are already onto the next headline, and the fact check
never gets the level of engagement sure notice as the headline.
So it's oversaturation, gotcha. I mean that's just my opinion,

(01:45:20):
But I mean, you scroll, you scroll, you scroll, jump
to the next I disagree with you, because that's a tactic.

Speaker 1 (01:45:25):
It's a real tactic that is used oversaturating. Look, how
are you going to keep people in control?

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
You overwhelm them. You overwhelm to the point.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
That they don't know how to make heads details what's
going on. You keep them moving, you keep their attention
moving you guide them just like a horse of blinders.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
That's exactly what they're doing. And it's the same thing
in war.

Speaker 1 (01:45:46):
How do you your enemy, you know, through misinformation, disinformation
and getting the people to believe the narrative so that
they rise up and they oppose the ruling class. That's
what we're seeing in America right now. And I don't
know where it's gonna go. Look, I don't even want
to say that I'm enjoying the ride, because sure, we

(01:46:09):
get eyeballs from talking about this stuff, but I am
more concerned with the the sentiment of how people feel
in view things these days, and that it seems like
we've we've just lost the ability to reason, that the
ability to think logically has just I mean, it's just

(01:46:31):
gone out the window.

Speaker 2 (01:46:32):
Unfortunately. Everything everything's emotional. I feel like America is just
a big ball of zombies, you know, just fire. Yeah,
and you got the perfect background, I mean you really
And I didn't say that because of that. It's just
the way I have always felt. It's a dumpster fire,
and you know it's not. And and party politics has

(01:46:52):
just been turned into a sport, so people wave their pennant,
but they don't think logically about what they're and that's
why you have this whole Epstein fisser to bring it
back to that, because uh, you know, look, the Republicans
have become the big tent party and everybody has their
wedge issue, and now what you have is a whole
bunch of people that feel betrayed. Okay, but what's going

(01:47:15):
to come out of this? They're going to go vote
Democrat next time, or they're going to stay home. No,
it's not like it's going to birth any movement. It's
just it's the same old It's this that's why they
call it political theater. It's the same old game.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
It's exactly Yeah, it's exactly fear you're you're substack what
you mentioned a little bit, But so you got into
your substack because you kind of want to just change
the direction you were going.

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
What about what about that substack attracted you to it?
Was it?

Speaker 1 (01:47:43):
Was it the community involvement in general or was there
something else, some other vibe about it that you really
were into?

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
It was it was literally the mechanics. So I have,
as I told you, I've been doing TikTok lives over
the years, and my TikTok handle is this theme. I'm
not even looking to plug it, so I'm not going to.
But it's it's Disney theme, okay, so I don't. I don't.
You can put it in the metadata, so I don't.

(01:48:09):
Even in the early days, I didn't even want to
break that, right. I wouldn't even if I was doing
like a live radio show, I'd go do it on
my Instagram, you know, and I would take callers and
a virtual phone bank. So I was always trying to
do these things, but I was trying to do them
wherever I could. I did a word press blog and

(01:48:30):
was trying to get that going. I built up the
discord and was trying to make that. I thought that
would be more message board than it really was. So
when I discovered that Substack was my blog and I
had a newsletter, a monthly newsletter, was became a pain
in the ass. Somebody said, hey, we'll do a newsletter.
We'll help you, and then here I am every month
trying to stream do a newsletter. It was too much.

(01:48:53):
So Substack became obviously my podcast is everywhere, but Substack
became a podcast, hosts a newsletter, a blog, and it
took care of the discord, being able to have a
chat thread and all these things. So it just became
a one stop shop for everything. So it was literally
the mechanics that makes a lot of sense. I never

(01:49:15):
got into it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
And honestly, you know, it's like you said earlier, you
can get very overwhelmed doing this, Like you have to
pay attention to all this different medium and you got
to see on top of it, and I just barely
keep up.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
With what I'm doing now. Same so when you're telling
me your story, I'm like, I don't even know how
you're able to keep up with all of it. Oh,
I'm pretty the whole kids series. At the same time,
I'm relaunching my YouTube and next year or at the
end year. It's crazy, man, I just readid you by YouTube?

Speaker 1 (01:49:40):
I destroyed it and just started relaunching it and focusing
on video for the specific for that side of it.
So yeah, definitely, I mean video editing. I never thought
would be a video editing guy. I was always a
sound engineer, right, and then I got into video because
doing events also, and everybody wanted a live stream. And
now I'm doing imag for concerts and we're doing all

(01:50:01):
this stuff. And it's just a natural progression. Now, Henry,
I'm spending hours and in front of the damn software
just doing his waves.

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
Man, you gotta streamline your workflow. Oh, I'll believe me.
It's streamline. Maybe I'm just too picky. I don't know.
You might be, but but but I only say that
from experience, because no understood. The last four months, five
months have been I feel like I've I've had a
master class in assistive AI, and I have figured out

(01:50:29):
how to use AI not to do the work, but
to make it easier so I don't have to do
the heavy lifting, so I can do like twenty. I
think I heard somebody said, like, oh, like ten eighty
ten or whatever. Everybody's got a bullshit phrase, But basically
I can have a eighty twenty at whatever it was, like,
ten eighty ten, whatever. I don't know. It might not
even even added to one hundred. They might have gone

(01:50:50):
over budget quite frankly. But it's just one of those
things where you're like, oh, there's a way that I
can do all Like when we do when you come
on my podcast, we'll use software called Riverside. Yeah, I'm familiar, Yeah,
and I love it because by the time we're done,
I've got my transcripts, I've got my clips, I've got
everything I need. Now I might not use it all,

(01:51:13):
but I've got options at my fingertips. And i haven't
even I haven't even finished talking. So that's the kind
of stuff that then buys me time to go. You
know what, it's time to relaunch my YouTube because now
I have the bandwidth.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
You know, technology is advancing in a way that yes
or our benefits.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
My issue is is every time I've tried to use
I was an early adopter of Riverside, and I can
never get it to work consistently and correctly. Where I
got so frustrated I just stopped using it. Interesting and
I know they got better. I've tried it recently, No,
I couldn't say recently. A few months back I had
a guess where I was going to try to use it,

(01:51:52):
and same frustrations.

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
I just had to go back.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
I think I just want too much control, you know.
I like to go back and multi track the audio.
I want to have more control of the audio. I
want the individual feeds, like.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
Maybe it's just me. I mean, it's just me. Yeah,
But there's I mean, look not to push AI, but
I mean AI can take stems out of an MP three. Yeahs.
So you get to this point where I'm like, and
it's for people love to resist this stuff. I love
to be on the as close to the front of
these things as possible. I always find myself finding the
next thing when when whatever I'm doing starts to hit

(01:52:25):
mass adoption, I'm onto the next. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:27):
I believe in using it as well, Royce. I just
I guess I'm control freak.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:31):
When it comes to my shorts, I absolutely use AI.
I mean, I use a program that just doesn't I'm
not sitting there. I'm not sitting there and doing I'm
letting it do it for me. I'm going back and
I might make an edit here or there, but other
than that, I'm letting the software do it for me.
I don't have time to do all that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
I get it, man, I mean, I look, it took
me so long to learn how to edit video on
my cell phone, like to jump from Premiere to but
this is years ago, to jump from Premiere to my
cell phone, and at a certain point it became so
clunky to try to take stuff off my phone and
put it in premiere. I was like, stop being stubborn,
and now I can edit. I can edit on two

(01:53:07):
cell phones simultaneously. Yeah. Yeah, that's a bad day if
I'm doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:53:13):
I tried to do a self phon thing. I got
the I got the big you know thumb thing. I
I can't do it. I got I gotta I gotta
get in front of my in front of my PC
or whatever it is, and you know, have everything laid
out in front. I guess I'm just too old school.
I don't know how old are you? Forty seven? All right,
I just turned forty four, so we're we're the same ballpark.
But I look, most of my my contemporaries don't touch

(01:53:36):
the stuff. They're everybody's.

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
It's still very very young, it's very very new, and
I find it to be very exciting as a creator
because it's giving me time to focus on more important things. Yeah,
I mean, time management is the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:53:51):
Your time is valuable, so agreed, you know, and maybe
I should look into more of that stuff. And that's
also a good lesson for anybody who's getting into the
space that you know, hey, take advantage of the technology
out there. We'll give you more time.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Don't let it do all the work, but let it
do some of the heavy lifting so you don't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
I got to look into the substack thing. I've always
I've always heard. I've just never dove into it, and
it's mostly a time thing for me. But yeah, you know,
I've been going through some of your stuff and it's
pretty good. I mean, you're very active, and uh, it's
really cool what you're doing, man, it really is. It's
almost like you're, like you said earlier, from what I
can tell, you're just reinventing yourself to it to a degree,
Do you feel that way?

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
I think, you know, reinvention Maybe not so much. I
think I'm peeling back some layers that I buried. I
I was involved in a lot of this political stuff
early on. I don't know if you if you saw
the art, like if you know anything about the Trump
call and all that, No, I heard you talk about it.
I wasn't really sure about what that was. Well so

(01:54:49):
so so I'll answer your question and then I can
give you the quick summation on that. But sure, it's
not that it's a reinvention. But I feel like I'm
going back to the things that I used to do
and getting to show all of my myself. So I've
gotten rid of the people that just wanted me to
take them to Disney every day. Oh and I call
that like a Disney daycare. And now I've got the

(01:55:10):
people that, yeah, we really love it when you take
us there, but we also want to hear about your
other thoughts. So I've been able to kind of pull
back in some stuff. So I would say it's more like,
maybe I'm just being semantical now and it's just my
own desire to control the narrative. But I feel like
I'm shedding skin. If anything. I don't think it's a reinvention,

(01:55:32):
because that would imply that I'm doing something I've never done,
or it's new territory, and it's not new territory, you know.
So and I can tell you the Trump story if
you want to hear it real quick. Sure. So I
let's see, I'm running an arcade business in Los Angeles,
and somewhere along the line, I start branching out into

(01:55:56):
doing content because content has always been a part of
the thing. And I'm producing a podcast for Stuttering John
from The Stern Show. Tonight's show former announcer, and he says, Oh,
We're gonna have Casey Armstrong on the show today, and
Casey Armstrong was a guy from The Stern Show back
in the day. And Casey turns down at the last minute.

(01:56:19):
I'm too busy and John didn't have anything to do,
and I go, you know what you should do is
you should call the White House because Trump had just
gotten into office. I guarantee you can get through because
a few weeks earlier, I was just po driving around
and I got through to the White House and Hope
Hicks called me back and I was like, oh shit,
I think I'll hang up now, and so he goes,

(01:56:43):
oh okay. He goes, well, I used to party with Trump.
I used to go on the helicopter with him to
AC So he picks up the phone and this is
on his podcast, this is first term, and he goes, Hi,
John Melendez. Click, they hang up, calls again. He goes,
John Melendez, I used to hang out with Donald click,

(01:57:04):
and I go, you gotta go my cousin Vinnie. You
ever see my cousin Vinnie, not Melendez? Say Menendez, you know,
not Jerry Callo, Jerry Gallo. I don't realize as I'm
saying this, that corrupt senator from New Jersey, Bob Menendez,
a Democrat, has ties to the Kushners and the Trumps.
I just said it for the joke. Okay, Hi, White House,

(01:57:30):
because mind you were calling the main switchboard, White House. Hi,
this is a calling from Senator Bob Menendez's office. Oh
hold on one second, please, right. So then, and John
is doing like the worst fucking British accent you've ever heard,
and he says his name is like it was like

(01:57:50):
his name was like uh like it was like an
amalgamation of like Bond names. It was like Sean, like
I don't even remember what it was. It was like
Sean Moore or something like that. And he goes, uh, yeah,
my name is Sean Moore and my parents were big
Bond fans, and like this is all getting through, and
the woman's like, well, listen, we just have one question.

(01:58:12):
If you're calling from Senator Bob Menendez's office, why do
you have an eight one to eight area code from California?
And he goes, oh, well on holiday in like the
worst accent, and they're like, oh, that makes sense. So
the next thing you know, they're like, we'll call you back.
We wrap up the podcast and we're like, fuck, that
was close. We're done. And I get a call that

(01:58:32):
night and he goes, I just got off the phone
with Donald Trump. I go, what? He goes. Jared Kushner
called me I was on a date with some girl.
I go, I gotta go. They were at a restaurant.
He goes, I gotta go outside. The President's calling. I go,
you must you had to have gotten laid right, because
like that's the ultimate Like I don't think he did,
which is a whole other commentary on him. But so

(01:58:54):
I get this voicemail like this this this MP three
texted to me because his buddy recorded the call a
third party. I spend two days trying to get this
out into the media. I finally Politico picked it up,
and it was a whirlwind, but it was I basic.
I produced that call on Air Force one, so so

(01:59:17):
so so reinvention, not so much dipping my toe back
in the water. Maybe that's that's I like that story.
It's a fun story, man. I try to tell it
as quick as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
That is well, Royce, I don't hold you up anymore
because you're in a you're in a completely different time zone,
but not man, joining this. I I like this conversation
and I'm looking forward to joining you on your podcast
down the road here. So with that being said, Man,
if you don't mind, I want to wrap this up,
get on with my evening over here, and uh again,

(01:59:50):
appreciate your time.

Speaker 2 (01:59:51):
I really do. Thank you for coming on. I really do,
and thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
I hope everything you do moving forward is just a success.
And I know that doesn't always mean for all of us.

Speaker 2 (02:00:00):
It's just.

Speaker 1 (02:00:02):
Keep at it, man. I mean, you've been doing this
a while and I like what you're doing. It's great,
it really is. I like your attitude. Man, you always
coming at it with a little bit of humor, and
it's like you're just very engaging. And it was a great,
great conversation, great experience, man, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:00:16):
Thank you for having me on. I look forward to
having you on my show. And honestly, I don't do
a lot of this, but it's it's really nice to
have these kind of conversations and to hear how other
people are thinking and to be reminded that at the
end of the day, we all want the same stuff,
absolutely for and be honest.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
Down the road, I'll probably have you on again if
you're open.

Speaker 2 (02:00:33):
So any time, man, I really enjoyed this, I really did.
And I don't know how long we've done here. I
have no concept of time right now. I don't know.
Let me look down. I think we're about yeah, just
over two hours. Okay, I found about two hours. But
it no, no, it's not a bad thing. No no, no,
it's not. Thank you, thank you. I'm gonna go ahead

(02:00:55):
and grab this up, sir, take your content of your field. Attention, devils,
high high temption, high stairs on my get do do

(02:01:16):
do do do do do do do do do

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Royce D'Orazio - Content Creation, Media, and Scandals

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