April 15, 2025 • 35 mins
Tune in to hear Wilmington local author, podcaster, and business owner, Justin Gates, share his personal journey of entrepreneurship: the highs, the lows, and the moments when trusting God made all the difference.
Whether you're a business owner, aspiring entrepreneur, or someone navigating the intersection of faith and career, this episode offers honest insights, real talk about risk-taking, and a reminder that purpose and profit can go hand in hand.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
We are all wrestling with something.
Whether you're wrestling with yourself image, your faith in God, or your
entire life's purpose, I'm here to tellyou that number one, you are not alone.
And number two, to encourage youto find both beauty and purpose
in the midst of your struggle.
My name is Em Led and this isThe Wrestling With Life Podcast.
(00:24):
Alright everyone, welcomeback to Wrestling With Life.
I am your host.
M led and I'm so excited to be joinedtoday by a special guest, Justin Gates.
Thanks so much for joining me, Justin.
You're welcome.
So we are kicking off a brand newseries and we're gonna be talking about
entrepreneurs who are bold, who takerisks and who've decided to trust God
(00:46):
in their career, which sometimes, youknow, talking about faith and business
can be a little dicey, but I reallyhave a lot of respect to people who.
Are comfortable talking about boththings and how they go hand in hand.
So we're gonna talk about that today.
Awesome.
Just a little bit ofbackground on you, Justin.
So you're a Navy veteran, you'rea small business owner with
over 10 years of experience.
(01:07):
Mm-hmm.
You've authored five books andyou run two podcasts called The
Business Builder and Rogue Disciple.
You are a personal trainer, a.Self-defense instructor, a behavioral
health specialist, dude, you doa lot and it sounds like all of
it kind of comes back to helpingpeople, inspiring people towards
growth, resilience, um, you name it.
(01:29):
I have a lot of respect forwhat you're doing and thank you.
You know, we have a lot ofshared goals and values, so I'm
really excited about this today.
I'd love to just turn it over to youfirst to talk about, you know, I know
you were in the Navy, you starteda small business, all this, this
different gigs that you have going on.
Anything that you kindof wanna share to just.
Lay the groundwork for whoeveryone's talking to today.
(01:52):
Um, well first one of thethings that wasn't on the
list was I'm a father, right?
So that's my first, that's myfirst job is being, being a dad.
I have an 11-year-old son, and mydaughter is your age, so I love that.
So, being a dad first is the first job.
I was in the reserve, right?
But I did do some traveling.
So you think maybe youthink, oh, you're on a boat.
(02:12):
I was never on a boat.
I was a, what they call a cb,CB's a construction battalion.
What can CBS do is they kind ofare the backside of the Marines.
Marines are the, the front force.
They go out and do all the fightingand cbs do all the building up,
the stuff that the Marines need.
So that's what we did.
Okay.
And so I didn't, I didn't have to wearthe blues and the hat and all that stuff.
I was, uh, never, I neverstepped foot on a boat.
(02:33):
I was driving heavy machinery,learning how to operate.
Um.
Bulldozers, front end loaders track,uh, you know, two ton track devices.
Racing two and a half ton dump trucksaround the base in Italy was fun.
Uh, so that's, that's a lot of what I did.
And as a reservist, you know, we went,went to, uh, camp Lejeune and did some
(02:56):
stuff there, but that was like kindof the basis of my military career.
Okay.
So, yeah, don't think that I wasa fleet sailor 'cause I wasn't.
Um, a little different.
Then I've always been involved inmartial arts ever since I was a kid and
grew up watching, you know, Bruce Leeand Kung Fu movies and like, you know,
I was born in 72, so I grew up in theeighties or came of age in the eighties
(03:18):
where like the eighties action figure,actually hero movies were like the thing
that was the biggest influence on me.
That, and like Saturday morning cartoons.
Mm-hmm.
So.
You know, Schwarzenegger Stallone,those cats, Chuck Norris.
That was the stuff I grew up watching.
So it never occurred to me that Icould have a job doing that one day.
Yeah.
And then when it did occur to me, Iwas willing, I was like approaching
(03:41):
40, I was into my late thirties.
I was like, wait a second,this is something I can do.
Yeah.
Well, I'll do it.
Because the opportunities on the backsideof that were, I was like, well, I get to
go to this kind of training and that kindof training and I wanna do all that stuff.
It really wasn't about necessarilybeing a instructor per se.
I just wanted a lot of theopportunities that came with it.
Sure.
Even though I love to teach, right.
(04:01):
That I did wanna do it, but itwasn't only for the one thing.
It was for a lot of thesedifferent reasons and.
I've met some amazing, interesting people.
I've traveled all overthe place to learn stuff.
I have been beaten up moretimes than I could count, right?
As part of the, the learning process.
(04:23):
Of course the learning curve.
But everybody, everybody gets that.
But yeah, so as starting that down herewas, was in essence, it was a, like a
leap of faith, but I had a choice to make.
I was at a job where I'd beenfor 14 years and I could.
Leave everything I knew, leaveall the security that I had,
everything that was establishedand it was in a different city.
Come down here, start basicallyfrom scratch and, and do this.
(04:45):
Mm. And at that time I was 40,40, 41, something like that.
Mm-hmm.
So it was, if I didn't do it then.
I knew that if I'd stayed inthe same spot for another year,
yeah, that I would hate myself.
I would hate my life, and thenI would just be a miserable
bastard for everybody around me.
(05:06):
And so I was like, well,win, lose, or draw.
I'm gonna have to just do this.
And this is before that I, beforeI ever had any belief in any other
higher power than, than myself.
Okay?
So I made that leap of faithjust on what I, what I believe.
I could do in myself, like, yeah.
I'm believing in myself.
Yeah.
Wow.
I still, I still think that's a, abetter thing to do is to, you know, to,
(05:28):
to ga to, uh, not necessarily gambleon yourself, but believe in yourself.
Right.
Always take that shot.
Mm. Right?
Because again, I'm 52, you're27, you're not even 30 yet.
Right?
So, you know, I'm lookingat you like yours.
Yours a young, you'rea young woman, right?
So, but you're young.
And, and you're doing a similarthing, like you were, you
(05:49):
rolled the dice on yourself.
There's no.
I think the earlier do that, the better.
Yeah.
Right.
Because agree, you have a muchlonger lead time, or not lead time,
but you're, the length of time thatyou can learn from that experience
is, is much greater than waiting.
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
But again, like, you know, Colonel Sandersdidn't start till lose in his fifties.
Elon Musk didn't start tillhe was like in his forties.
(06:10):
You know, a lot of, there's alot of people who were like super
successful entrepr entrepreneurs.
They didn't start until they're, youknow, late in their forties, whatever.
Right.
But it's because they had amaturity level that they didn't
have when they were younger.
Right.
But it.
If you have that maturity level whenyou're younger and you can kind of
see if you can see the matrix as itwere, like, go ahead and take the shot
because you'll learn from the loss.
Even if you don't win, actually you learnmore from your losses than than you.
(06:32):
You learn more when you lose.
Absolutely.
So you're just trying to condenseall that down and then, well then
I did have an interaction with God.
That's what actually launched a podcast.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
So the, this one, theBusiness Boulder or other one?
Well, no, the Rogue Disciplewas the initial idea.
(06:52):
Okay.
Uh, I had a friend, and I've knownhim for, oh, I don't know, since I
got here in Wilmington about, I don'tknow, 2, 3, 4 years ago he said, he
says, man, we should do a podcast.
And I was like, yeah, I don'tknow, but there's so much
going on to start whatever.
Mm. So the idea for a podcast wasactually floated to me by my friend.
Years ago, and I just was like,I wrote it off, wrote it off.
(07:13):
I didn't have time.
Like scattered Brainin, had toomuch stuff going on, couldn't focus.
Mm. My life wasn't in a place whereI could do it, but for whatever
reason, and it happens to everybodydifferently, but there comes a point
for a believer where you just havemany experience with God, where it's
undeniable that God's hand is at work.
(07:35):
And I have been, I'venot believed in anything.
Pretty much my whole life.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
So, so did you have like oneexperience like that where you
were like, it was three in a row.
Okay.
And so it was like after that I said,okay, God has revealed himself to me.
And I said, all right, I get it.
Now it's time for me to start seeking you.
(07:56):
Wow.
So that messed with me for a long time.
It still does because, you know, as a,you know, I, I, I used to say I was an
atheist, and that's an easy thing tosay when you don't believe in anything.
But it's kind of like an atheist says,we don't believe that God is there.
Mm. Right.
Yeah.
Um.
I went further thanmost atheists would go.
(08:16):
I was like, I don't believe in anythingexcept what I can do with these two hands.
So I don't, I don't believe you'regonna show up today until you show up.
Mm. You can say anything true.
Right.
So I didn't believe anything thatanybody said unless, unless I actually
saw materialize concrete evidence.
Yeah.
You know, I didn't believe thatI was gonna wake up the next
morning until, unless I woke up.
Wow.
(08:36):
So it's a, it's a differentway to think about stuff.
Because just going, well,I don't believe in God.
That's, that's, anybody can say that,but having no concept of it at all.
Mm-hmm.
Is if you've been, if you've grown up ina faith, if it's one thing, if you came
from, if you have a similar story to whereI'm at, it was like, yeah, dude, I didn't
believe in nothing until, until somethinghappens and it's just irrefutable proof.
(08:59):
Yes.
So the podcast was that.
It was, I didn't know what I was gonna do.
Was I gonna have a life change?
I was going from one thing, I wasgonna transition to something else.
This thing was, it took a lot of time.
It was a lot of effort.
It was a big pain in the butt,but it was a big monetary payoff.
All that was gonna go away, and I wasgonna have time and freedom, but I didn't.
(09:20):
I was like, wow, what amI gonna do to make money?
Mm. What am I gonna do?
How am I gonna fill that time?
What am I gonna do?
And then a voice comes into myhead and says, start a podcast.
Now.
I didn't think about that.
The thought had already beenthere, but it wasn't me.
It came from somewhere else.
So I say, God justthumped it into my head.
Mm. As soon as that thought went throughmy ears, three minutes later, I mean,
I already knew what I was gonna do.
(09:40):
I was like, I, I'm gonna start a podcast.
I'm gonna talk about how.
People came to the faith, youknow, what it means to 'em, how
they interacted with it, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna be structured this way.
I'm gonna ask these ques, Ialready, three minutes later, I knew
everything about what I was gonna do.
The next thought after that was,uh, that I had was, I don't know
how to monetize a faith podcast.
Mm-hmm.
(10:00):
So.
That's hence the Business BuilderPodcast, because that's an easy one to do.
Yeah.
Who doesn't wanna sit around andtalk about their business, why they
do what they do for their customers?
Yeah.
You know, I mean, you'rein digital marketing.
It's all about messaging.
It's all about get.
What do you do for your customers?
How do you solve their problem?
And then you gotta push it outon the right channels to get
in front of the right eyeballs.
(10:21):
Mm, right.
Well, I'm not doing all that.
The only thing I'm doing is sitting downand saying, Hey, let's talk about this.
Right.
You do X, Y, Z. Tell us about that.
Right, exactly.
And then I chop it up and give it to you.
I'm like, I can make moneyfor that, because that's just
basically outsource content.
Oh, very cool.
That's all I'm doing.
I was wondering how yourbusiness model works.
That's it.
So that's really cool's.
I take the long form podcast, I chopit up 'cause I'm gonna edit anyway.
(10:41):
Yeah.
And then I turn it over to you for yyou know, social media is a one, but
there's like 10 other ways to use it.
That's what my problem is, is people arelike, well what I do with this, like, what
would you do with it if, if it was yours?
Yeah.
Well I wanted to actually segueback to something that you said
that I find, you know, really.
(11:01):
Kind of thematic at, at least, especiallyfor people who are in my age group.
So if you look at like late Gen Z,early millennial, like people who are
kind of just starting out in theircareer, even into their mid thirties.
I think the tone of our world, andespecially the tone of business, is that
it is on you and it's in your hands to besuccessful and to make something happen.
(11:25):
Right?
There's not really, um, talk abouttrusting in God for your success.
There's not really talk about, youknow, in those gaps in the times
when you're not making money.
Lean on the Lord, youknow, seek him first.
It's all on you to figure it out.
It sounds like that's kind of what youbelieved before you found the Lord.
Is that true?
To a degree, yeah.
But you know, we're, we're almost 30 yearsapart, so the, the world that you guys got
(11:50):
born into kind of sucked because, well,it does it when, when you were born, it.
It does a lot to determine whatyour trajectory is gonna look like.
Yeah.
So, um, a lot of people your age, I getit, it you, you got born into a time
where a lot of stuff was going down.
My parents are baby boomers, right.
So everything in the UnitedStates was on the way up.
(12:10):
Every single asset class was going upand up and up and up and up and it,
it, especially real estate, real estatejust kept improving over time until
these till 2008 when that bubble hit.
Right.
So.
You guys are born into it wherestuff is just all like this.
Yeah.
And so it was hard to figureout where do you fit in.
Yeah.
And the culture too at thetime is totally different.
(12:31):
So when you were in yourteens, it's totally different
from when I was in my teens.
Stuff made sense back then.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And it, when you guys are coming around,it's like everything's nebulous, so it
was hard to pin down certain things.
So there's a certain apathy that.
Younger people have that.
You know, boomers didn'thave, and I'm a Gen Xer.
(12:52):
We were born in the middle of everything.
We don't care.
Right.
I dunno if you've everseen the movie Fight Club.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
Well we didn't have a great depression.
We didn't have a great war.
Right.
We didn't have anything to define us.
Our, our, our great War is a spiritualwar in our great Depression is our lives.
That's the way everybody felt.
Mm. And so that movie just hit homewhat people my age were thinking.
'cause we're like.
(13:12):
What, what have we got to show for?
They call it Gen X because wewere the first generation since
the Industrial Revolution to getthe same age as our parents with
having less, less opportunity, lessmoney, everything's more expensive.
And you guys came aroundkind of like that, where.
After the, the explosion of digital media.
You guys are born in an era where a screenwas something that you've had since birth.
(13:34):
Mm-hmm.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
So bringing it back towards faith.
If you don't have faith in any kindof higher power and it's all on you.
Right.
So you can, there's a lot of pressurethere because the, the pressure to
succeed because you sink or swim, Ithink it's a good and a bad thing.
Mm-hmm.
It's a good thing becauseyou'll learn how to swim.
(13:55):
Right.
Or you'll just drown.
Yeah.
However, the hierarchical structureof companies is different now, right?
There's no loyalty anymore, right?
There's no employee loyalty.
There's no company loyalty.
Mm-hmm.
You know, back in theday, they had pensions.
You could work for 'em for 40years, and that was your thing.
That was their prevailingadvice when I was young.
Get outta school.
Either go to college or get a job.
(14:16):
You stay at that job for 30 yearsuntil you retire and everything's cool.
Right?
That dream was dead by the time I was 15.
It didn't exist, right?
What existed for, for the generationbefore me didn't exist for my generation.
And so for us, what existed for us atthe time doesn't exist for you guys.
So there is this huge pushto be, to be doing something.
(14:36):
There's an overemphasis on, I think,um, what I call the hustle culture.
I. It's like, get out there and this,everybody wants to be, everybody wants to
be doing something, this, that, whatever.
It's like if you can't bringsomething valuable to the marketplace,
then you're not gonna make it.
How do you know if it's valuable or not?
Are you getting hired?
You know, you have to throw somethingout to the market to see if it's,
even if, if what you're offering issomething that people need, if it's
(14:57):
not, you're not gonna make money.
Right?
So I guess they wouldcall that market research.
But if you don't solve a problemthat people, enough people are having
that you can sustain yourself, right?
You're gonna have to switchand do something else.
See what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So we already kind of knew thatgoing in, but we had these old
institutions that we could rely on.
Have you ever been laughing with yourbest friend or your business partner
(15:19):
and turned to each other and said, weshould totally start our own podcast?
But then you never actually triedbecause there were just too many
moving pieces and things to learn,and it all felt super overwhelming.
Well, hey, you're talking to somebodywho has been there and done that.
Not only could I get you started withthe right equipment and tools, but I can
also walk you through every step of thebehind the scenes work that nobody sees.
(15:43):
Like writing episode show notes andediting your recordings, creating
cover art in a jingle, attractingguests, and even marketing your show
for a limited time, I am offeringone-on-one podcast production services
at a very affordable hourly ratewith no contracts or startup fees.
If you are finally ready to make yourpodcast dream a reality, let's have a
(16:05):
conversation and we can see if workingtogether is a good fit for both of us.
Go to www.ledbettermarketing.comfor more information.
You younger people are coming out ofit and almost everybody wants to try
to be some kind of an entrepreneur.
Nobody wants to work for the man, right?
Uhhuh, I tell people, and this is some.
Some of the advice that I heardon a podcast years ago, the guy
(16:28):
said, look, all these people thinkthey're gonna be entrepreneurs.
Like not everybody's an entrepreneur.
Mm. It's okay to be an employee.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Especially if you don't,it's a lot less stress.
You don't have to wear all the hats.
You only have to fileone tax return, you know?
Yeah.
And you only got, you know, as longas you play within the rules, it
you, it's, some people are meantto be employees, and that's okay.
(16:49):
Yeah.
Don't put your nine to five if you don'thave, you know, don't quit your day job.
If you're not already making money,if that side hustle starts replacing
your income, then you can quit.
Yes.
But you don't just quit beforehand.
You gotta do something to earn moneybecause you still have to work.
You gotta eat.
Yes.
You got bills to pay.
Especially if you've got kids.
Mm-hmm.
If you've got kids, how areyou gonna feed your kids?
If you're like, well, I'm gonna,I'm gonna quit my job and I'm
(17:12):
gonna, you know, do an Etsy shop.
It's like, really?
What?
Have you made anything?
Well, no, but I gotthis really great idea.
It's like, that's wonderful.
Have you sold anything?
Yeah.
Right.
You haven't even made anything.
You have zero customersand no sales, like.
How are you going to eat?
Right.
Right.
You know, we need to be practical.
We need to ease into it.
I'm glad you said that.
(17:32):
'cause this actually segues really wellinto the next thing I wanna talk about.
So, on my Instagram, I'llput out polls a lot of times.
Mm-hmm.
And I'll ask people who are inmy specific podcast demographic,
Hey, please answer this.
Let me know your thoughts on these things.
I'm gonna throw like fourdifferent stats at you.
Okay.
And this is all about career stuff.
And I was asking about a hundredpeople that responded to this.
(17:55):
So 60% of respondents said that they caremore about having a work-life balance than
making money or doing purposeful work.
So work-life balance seems to be themost important thing to most people.
45% say.
If their success was guaranteed,they would start their own
business or work for themselves.
(18:16):
34% say that they fear career rejection.
So that would prevent them fromtaking a risk in their career.
And that could be like applyingor interviewing for a job, not
getting it, starting a businessand failing, things like that.
And lastly, I. 91% say that stayinghumble is key to career success.
(18:36):
So that was a lot.
But what I'm getting out of this is thata lot of people want work life balance.
So maybe those are gonna be moreof like the nine to fives, I think.
Because when you're anentrepreneur, it takes a long
time, I think, to achieve that.
But I also thought it was interesting,45% said that if their success was
guaranteed, they would work forthemselves or start their own business.
(18:58):
So I think as we can see from this, I.
Taking that risk, starting your ownbusiness, that's a huge risk that a lot
of people are simply not willing to take.
So if there are people out there whoare thinking, I don't know if that's me.
I don't know if I can do this.
They have a lot of fear of failure.
They have a lot of those thoughts goingin their head of, you know, is it just
easier to stay with my nine to five?
(19:20):
What would you say to those people?
Like where should they start?
What questions should theyask themselves to figure out?
The direction they should take.
Well, the first thing I'd say to'em is, welcome to everybody else.
Right?
Um, you're not alone.
Everybody feels that.
So, but everything's a risk.
Everything's a calculated risk.
Right?
You're gonna, you're, what's therisk if you don't Mm. That's good.
(19:41):
Right?
That's good.
I mean, you're, you're at where you're at.
You're already un unhappy or unsatisfied.
What's the risk if you don't Yeah.
You know, it's, it's notan either or question.
You can, you can start a, uh,something on the side, you know,
have your nine to five, like yournine to five is what you do for now.
(20:03):
Your six to 10 is what you'redoing 30 years from now.
You know, so one, get out of the mindset.
That has to be an either or.
Right?
And then also, you know, thiswhole work life balance thing is,
there's no such thing, I don'tthink, I don't think there's a
such thing as a work life balance.
If you're grinding on something,you're working, you have to put all
your, a lot of energy into that.
(20:24):
Your family life is gonna suffer, right?
Mm-hmm.
If you spend, if you overspendtoo much time on your family, you
don't work enough in the businessthat's gonna suffer, right?
So there's.
I don't think there's a balance that canbe achieved as perfect harmonious balance.
It's going to be like this.
It's always gonna be in flux.
Unless you get to a point where, andeven if you're hitting seven and eight
(20:45):
figures, you don't think that as a CEO orA CFO or or a team member in that kind of
organization that it's still like this.
Find me one of those pe.
Find me the person who says Yes.
I have figured out thekey to work-life balance.
I haven't seen him anywhere yet.
Mm. I don't know if anybody said that.
So just put that outta your mind.
There's a risk and then there's sacrifice.
(21:06):
Right.
To take a risk to do X, y, or Z, youhave to sacrifice something else.
When I came down here, I lefteverything that was stable and
everybody thought I was, well, Alot of people thought I was crazy.
Mm. Right.
Why are you leaving a stable job site?
'cause, 'cause I wannaput a bullet in my head.
That's why.
So what's the risk?
If I stay, I'll go.
I'll either go slowly crazyor I'll go crazy fast.
(21:27):
So.
For me that was a easy trade off to make.
But it just goes to prove that onlythose 45%, they're the ones who
are like, oh yeah, I'll do this.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So it's 55% are like, nah,nah, I'm fine where I'm at.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Because they're like doingthe unbalancing of the scales
for them is too uncomfortable.
Right.
Which is fine, then that's fine.
(21:48):
Like, not everybody is built for thisand, and you shouldn't like go to where
you have the best outcome, where yourtime and energy and effort is rewarded.
Best, right?
Whether that's, whether that's as anemployee or whether that's as a, you know,
a consultant or, you know, entrepreneur,owner, operator, whatever that looks like.
(22:11):
Find that and then just, you know, doubledown on that groove because there's no,
there's no benefit for you going intosomewhere where you don't fit and then
trying to force it to stay there, right?
Because you'll just run yourmental health and your sanity
into the ground a hundred percent.
Right?
I love that.
So.
Those of us who are likeentrepreneurial or we just have
(22:32):
to have something going on.
As a friend of mine, he told me this.
He goes, he said, dude,you're that person who can't.
He's like, you have to explore that.
He's like, you just have that creativeside that you cannot keep it down, right?
You have to go explore.
He goes, A lot of peoplearen't gonna do that.
He's like, but you, no matterwhat, you're gonna have to.
Like, explore it, you know?
And I was like, yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.
(22:52):
Not that I, and not that I wanna spinall the plates, I don't, I don't like
spinning a whole bunch of plates.
I really wanna focus on the onething, but necessity dictates that
I have to spin plates right now.
Mm-hmm.
It's not, not the most enjoyable thingto do, so I'm not romanticizing it.
A lot of the stuff is a pain in thebutt, which I would gladly outsource.
When?
When I can.
Right.
It's coming 'cause, right.
'cause I don't wanna have todo all this plate spinning.
(23:14):
Absolutely.
I've been doing it for a long time.
It is.
It's not all that enjoyable.
So there's a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
Mm-hmm.
I'd rather be productive than busy.
Well, it's also like what areyou willing to suffer for?
Like that's what passion is.
What do you care about the most?
That you're willing to put the timein and you know, not enjoy every
second of it because you believethat one day it will be worth it.
(23:34):
You know, yeah.
Sacrifice, right?
Yeah.
You, you're sacrificing something for now.
I mean, that's what, that'swhat the whole half of that is.
I mean, the Old Testament'sall about sacrifice.
Mm. You know?
Mm. Boy, Jesus himself sacrifice.
Yeah.
Right.
So to your point.
You gotta get clear onwhat it is you want.
Well, something I think that reallyholds people back is fear and and
(23:55):
doubt, and just believing thatnegative self-talk in their head.
So I'm curious to hear in your journeyon your way to being an entrepreneur and
starting all these adventures by yourself,what kind of limiting beliefs or fear
came up and how did you work through thatand what role did faith play in that?
Well, faith didn't play a roleuntil about two years ago, so almost
(24:17):
every single decision that you'retalking about I made before that.
It wasn't really the fearof if I could do it or not.
It was, it was it.
Stuff came afterwards, like I gotinto something and then it was
like, whoa, this is a lot more thanwhat I thought it was gonna be.
Mm. And so.
It was the fear, it was more so a lack ofknowledge and understanding of just how
big the, uh, the endeavor was and how muchenergy I was gonna have to put behind it.
(24:42):
You know?
It was definitely,there's a fear of failure.
A fear of not making enoughmoney just like that.
Everybody at some point,me included, will have, I.
The imposter syndrome will creep in,but it's usually in your down, you
know, close to hitting rock bottom.
Yeah.
And that's when you'relike, what am I even doing?
Am I doing this right?
Does anybody even care?
Right.
Am I doing anything good?
Right.
You know, and those have come around.
And really what got me out ofthose were a couple of key good
(25:05):
friends, some really good books.
There's like, just like my friend said.
You know, there is a voice in me thatwill, it's kinda like my internal David
Goggins, you know, I'll get to a bottomwhere I'll start doubting everything.
And, and it's happened a couple of times.
It doesn't happen a lot, but it's, itdefinitely has happened a few times.
Mm-hmm.
And that voice willsay, what are you doing?
(25:27):
Like, well, I'm here.
It's like.
Yeah, we'll do something, you know,well, I don't know what to do.
I don't know.
Just go do something.
So it's like there's this, thisinternal voice, for me anyway,
that's like get off your, get offyour butt and go do something.
One thing that I read somewhereis that action kills fear.
So if you find yourself there, take.
Gigantic action.
(25:48):
And if you don't know what that is,then you should have a plan, right?
Write everything out.
Write out all your dreams, all your goals,this, that, whatever is, get a huge piece
of paper or get, you know, a notebook,whatever, and write everything down.
Then just start attacking something,because if you don't, you'll stay stuck.
(26:09):
And if you're, if you're notmoving forward, you might
as well be going backwards.
There is no such thing as staying still.
If you're staying still,you're going backwards.
So you're either going forward oryou're going backwards as it is now.
There's no, you cannot, you can't rest.
You can't sit still.
You can't stay still.
You have to be doing something.
And if your, if your job or your.
(26:29):
Your business doesn't facilitate that,then it needs to be something else, right?
Yeah.
Everybody will have thatfear, first of all, for sure.
Right?
So if you're watchingthis, you're gonna have it.
Everybody has it.
If you read any of the books of thepeople that you like or your, or
their podcasts or personalities,whatever, they're all gonna talk about
it and they all say the same thing.
You have the fear comesfirst, action comes second.
(26:50):
Mm-hmm.
So you just gotta beat fear with action.
I love that.
That's a sweet advice.
And, and on, on the part of action.
Doesn't even matter if you take thewrong action because you'll, you'll
get feedback on that and then correct.
So, but the worst thingto do is inaction, right?
You can take a good action, youcan take a bad action, but the
absolute worst thing is inaction.
Mm, absolutely.
(27:12):
Self-doubt is inevitable, but lettingit stop you is a choice, right?
It's a choice.
Yeah.
And we gotta be careful with thatbecause it could become a mindset.
So, um, I think it was Vince Lombardithat said, you know, habits are
what separate winners and losers.
So it's not, it's not whatyou do, it's your habits that
dictate what happens to you.
So if you're in the habit of justtaking action all the time, you
(27:35):
probably will get there less frequently.
And when you do get there,you won't stay there as long.
Mm. And you just stop taking action.
Somebody's gonna have to comealong and kick you out of that.
I love it.
Well, I just have one last questionfor you and then we'll close out.
If you had to say one thing to someonewho's about my age, they're feeling
overworked, they're feeling discouragedabout their career, they're scared
(27:58):
to take risks, they just kind of feelparalyzed, and they don't know what to do.
What's the biggest thing that youwould tell them to encourage them?
Serve something better thanyourself, bigger than yourself.
Service, go serve someone orsomething bigger than yourself.
That's good because again, I get it right.
I know a lot of people your age.
I've talked to a lot of 'em.
You know, there is a prevailingmindset of why do any of this?
(28:22):
Yeah, why get involved?
Why do, because you, you can see, it'slike, well, if I go, I don't wanna work
for, you know, some corporation who'slike, I'm just helping them make money.
They don't care about me.
I get all that.
Right?
Right.
But what else are you gonna do?
You know, at some point you're gonna,you're going to work for somebody
else until you work for yourself.
Yes.
(28:42):
Right.
Move or get stuck.
Stay or get stuck.
You know, I mean, take action or be stuck.
Well, I don't know what to do.
It's like ask, you know, that's a problem.
Yeah.
There are, there are pe goto people that you trust.
Somebody might know you better thanyou think you know yourself and can
say, you know, what, you know with yourtalents and with your, you know, your
mindset, your talents, your passions.
(29:03):
You might wanna do something likethis and it might be a good fit.
But definitely go servesomebody better than yourself.
Go volunteer somewhere.
Right?
It doesn't have to be a church,doesn't have to be, uh, religious.
Go volunteer somewhere.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I knew a friend of mine that wouldgo into old folks homes and he would
take balloons and do, like, he wouldjust go in there and blow up balloons.
I. And go and give 'em to the oldladies as they're playing cards.
(29:24):
Aw.
You know, I love that.
And they did too.
They were like, oh, that's so, you know.
So he comes in there, he justmakes their day, you know?
Yeah.
That's awesome.
He would go in and like take hardcandies and whatnot, you know, and
just hang out and just talk to 'em.
Yeah.
And he just came in.
They didn't know he was coming.
He just shows up and just makes their day.
Well, what do you think?
Like that ripple effect, right?
That you just made a whole group of oldladies stay playing pinochle, you know,
(29:48):
what does that do for you on the inside?
Yeah.
And then if, if that's the kindof example that you have and
then your children see that, youknow, what does that do for them?
Yeah, so I. If you get, if you get stuckand you're thinking that way, it's 'cause
you're only thinking about yourself.
'cause think about otherpeople percent, right?
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
So you're focused on other people.
And I also think not only does that justhelp you get to where you wanna go, but
(30:10):
it also I think takes you out of your ownmind, takes the focus off of you and your
problems and your perceived inadequacies.
And then you're feeling more motivatedto continue to give back, to find ways
to make a difference in the world.
And then you don't have thatpessimistic view as much of like.
Oh, why do I have to do this?
Why do I have to to work?
You know, you, you kind of shiftinto this mindset of gratitude.
(30:31):
Mm-hmm.
And you realize how much, howgood you really do have it.
Honestly, it's all about perspective.
Right?
Perspective For sure.
All day.
And it can be, you know, Iget it can be hard to change.
Mm-hmm.
But.
But it is a choice, right?
It's a choice.
Yeah.
You get to have a choice.
I can do that.
You know?
I can choose to be here.
I can choose to be here.
I'm cynical by nature.
I look at the bad side of thingsbefore the good, and I'm impatient.
(30:54):
It's like it's a trifecta cocktail.
That is, it's the, those are the negativepersonality traits that I have, which
I worked and continue to work on.
'cause I don't want to expressthose only all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Because it just makes me somebodythat's unpleasant to be around.
But.
My early thought, probably when Iwas in my twenties, something would
(31:15):
come up and I would immediately, Iwould go, I would have a list of all
the reasons why it wasn't gonna work.
Mm. Like, why not?
Can't happen.
Da da.
And it was just like a, you know,a printoff sheet in my head.
And like, what a, what aawful way to look at stuff.
Yeah.
When presented with something.
Right.
What's all the good stuff, you know?
I mean, I still do that, but now I run itthrough the positive filter first before
(31:38):
I run it through the negative filter.
Oh, that's good.
But it's a better way,it's much more enjoyable.
'cause otherwise you'relooking at everything in the
and with the glasses of No.
Or, or why not?
Or it can't be, you know?
Yeah.
Instead of going, well, this could work.
You know?
Could it not work?
Sure.
But it could work.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
Well, how do we know?
I don't know.
We're gonna try it.
Yeah, we're gonna try it and see.
(31:59):
Maybe it'll work out.
Maybe it's like, do you cook?
Are you asking me?
Yeah, you cook.
Listen, I can follow a recipe,but I am by no means a good cook.
But see, say that you said, you said thekeywords, I can follow a recipe, right?
So when you follow a recipe,it hasn't got a chance.
It's gonna turn out great.
That's right.
It does sometimes and it mightnot turn out good at all.
Right?
It doesn't.
Other times.
(32:19):
Yeah.
So, but that's the thing.
I've been cooking foursince I was seven, so.
Wow.
And I worked in, I worked inrestaurants for a long time too, so.
Mm-hmm.
So I know how to cook, but sometimes,you know, I'll cook something that
I've cooked, you know, a thousandtimes before and it just sucks.
Yeah.
It's like, this does not taste like,I want it to taste like, oh yes.
(32:40):
And I'm not gonna waste it, so I'mgonna eat it anyway, but, but I'm
like, I know I can do better than that.
Mm. It just didn't turnout right that time.
I don't know why, you know?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Whatever.
But I know I can do it.
But you still, it still have,you gotta take the shot, right?
I mean, nothing happensunless you take action.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Because otherwise that, the trap that Iwould fall into is analysis paralysis.
(33:00):
Mm. And so you'll sit there and go,I don't, I forget who wrote the book.
There's a book out therecalled Ready, fire, aim, right?
Mm-hmm.
Just do something first soyou could course correct.
Look a boat or a plane.
When they take off,they have a destination.
Right.
And they, it's never a straight line.
There's always coursecorrections on the way.
Right.
But you can't give or make it anywhereunless you're, unless you start moving.
(33:21):
Mm. So get moving.
So good.
I love it.
Well, Justin, where can people find you?
How can they connect with you?
Road Disciple or BusinessBuilder podcast on YouTube.
Mm. Uh, look up eitherone of those on Instagram.
You can get me there.
And if you're in Wilmington.
You could come to thegym if you wanna train.
Yes, absolutely.
I'll link all of those, uh, inthe show notes for you guys.
(33:42):
Justin, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
I really appreciate, appreciate it.
Yeah, appreciate it.
I love it.
Thank you for listening to theirWrestling with Life podcast.
If this episode sparked something inyour brain or made you think of someone
specific, please share with them.
Let someone else know that they arenot alone in their struggles today.
And please rate the podcast onwhatever platform you're listening on.
(34:04):
If you're a Spotify listener, you canleave a comment on this episode with your
thoughts on what we covered, and I wannahear about what God is doing in your life.
So tell me, and if you're hungry for evenmore inspirational content just like this,
you can give me a follow on Instagram.
At Emco LED 11, I am always postingpolls to get a gauge on what
(34:24):
everyone is struggling with without.
There sharing everyday little lifemoments and encouraging all of us
to find both beauty and purpose inthe midst of our daily struggles.
So come join in on the good vibesand real quick before you go, this
is just a little quick reminderon what this podcast is not.
Okay.
A wrestling with Life podcast andany content posted on my channels is
(34:48):
presented solely for informationaland educational purposes.
The use of this information is at yourown risk and should not be substituted
for the advice of a therapist,pastor, or any qualified professional.
If you are struggling with yourmental health, please consider seeking
professional help or contacting the9 8 8 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
(35:10):
Please don't try to getthrough this by yourself, okay?
You are not alone.
We are all wrestling with something.
Whether you're wrestling with yourself image, your faith in God, or your
entire life's purpose, I'm here to tellyou that number one, you are not alone.
And number two, to encourage youto find both beauty and purpose
in the midst of your struggle.
My name is Em Led and this isThe Wrestling With Life Podcast.
(00:24):
Alright everyone, welcomeback to Wrestling With Life.
I am your host.
M led and I'm so excited to be joinedtoday by a special guest, Justin Gates.
Thanks so much for joining me, Justin.
You're welcome.
So we are kicking off a brand newseries and we're gonna be talking about
entrepreneurs who are bold, who takerisks and who've decided to trust God
(00:46):
in their career, which sometimes, youknow, talking about faith and business
can be a little dicey, but I reallyhave a lot of respect to people who.
Are comfortable talking about boththings and how they go hand in hand.
So we're gonna talk about that today.
Awesome.
Just a little bit ofbackground on you, Justin.
So you're a Navy veteran, you'rea small business owner with
over 10 years of experience.
(01:07):
Mm-hmm.
You've authored five books andyou run two podcasts called The
Business Builder and Rogue Disciple.
You are a personal trainer, a.Self-defense instructor, a behavioral
health specialist, dude, you doa lot and it sounds like all of
it kind of comes back to helpingpeople, inspiring people towards
growth, resilience, um, you name it.
(01:29):
I have a lot of respect forwhat you're doing and thank you.
You know, we have a lot ofshared goals and values, so I'm
really excited about this today.
I'd love to just turn it over to youfirst to talk about, you know, I know
you were in the Navy, you starteda small business, all this, this
different gigs that you have going on.
Anything that you kindof wanna share to just.
Lay the groundwork for whoeveryone's talking to today.
(01:52):
Um, well first one of thethings that wasn't on the
list was I'm a father, right?
So that's my first, that's myfirst job is being, being a dad.
I have an 11-year-old son, and mydaughter is your age, so I love that.
So, being a dad first is the first job.
I was in the reserve, right?
But I did do some traveling.
So you think maybe youthink, oh, you're on a boat.
(02:12):
I was never on a boat.
I was a, what they call a cb,CB's a construction battalion.
What can CBS do is they kind ofare the backside of the Marines.
Marines are the, the front force.
They go out and do all the fightingand cbs do all the building up,
the stuff that the Marines need.
So that's what we did.
Okay.
And so I didn't, I didn't have to wearthe blues and the hat and all that stuff.
I was, uh, never, I neverstepped foot on a boat.
(02:33):
I was driving heavy machinery,learning how to operate.
Um.
Bulldozers, front end loaders track,uh, you know, two ton track devices.
Racing two and a half ton dump trucksaround the base in Italy was fun.
Uh, so that's, that's a lot of what I did.
And as a reservist, you know, we went,went to, uh, camp Lejeune and did some
(02:56):
stuff there, but that was like kindof the basis of my military career.
Okay.
So, yeah, don't think that I wasa fleet sailor 'cause I wasn't.
Um, a little different.
Then I've always been involved inmartial arts ever since I was a kid and
grew up watching, you know, Bruce Leeand Kung Fu movies and like, you know,
I was born in 72, so I grew up in theeighties or came of age in the eighties
(03:18):
where like the eighties action figure,actually hero movies were like the thing
that was the biggest influence on me.
That, and like Saturday morning cartoons.
Mm-hmm.
So.
You know, Schwarzenegger Stallone,those cats, Chuck Norris.
That was the stuff I grew up watching.
So it never occurred to me that Icould have a job doing that one day.
Yeah.
And then when it did occur to me, Iwas willing, I was like approaching
(03:41):
40, I was into my late thirties.
I was like, wait a second,this is something I can do.
Yeah.
Well, I'll do it.
Because the opportunities on the backsideof that were, I was like, well, I get to
go to this kind of training and that kindof training and I wanna do all that stuff.
It really wasn't about necessarilybeing a instructor per se.
I just wanted a lot of theopportunities that came with it.
Sure.
Even though I love to teach, right.
(04:01):
That I did wanna do it, but itwasn't only for the one thing.
It was for a lot of thesedifferent reasons and.
I've met some amazing, interesting people.
I've traveled all overthe place to learn stuff.
I have been beaten up moretimes than I could count, right?
As part of the, the learning process.
(04:23):
Of course the learning curve.
But everybody, everybody gets that.
But yeah, so as starting that down herewas, was in essence, it was a, like a
leap of faith, but I had a choice to make.
I was at a job where I'd beenfor 14 years and I could.
Leave everything I knew, leaveall the security that I had,
everything that was establishedand it was in a different city.
Come down here, start basicallyfrom scratch and, and do this.
(04:45):
Mm. And at that time I was 40,40, 41, something like that.
Mm-hmm.
So it was, if I didn't do it then.
I knew that if I'd stayed inthe same spot for another year,
yeah, that I would hate myself.
I would hate my life, and thenI would just be a miserable
bastard for everybody around me.
(05:06):
And so I was like, well,win, lose, or draw.
I'm gonna have to just do this.
And this is before that I, beforeI ever had any belief in any other
higher power than, than myself.
Okay?
So I made that leap of faithjust on what I, what I believe.
I could do in myself, like, yeah.
I'm believing in myself.
Yeah.
Wow.
I still, I still think that's a, abetter thing to do is to, you know, to,
(05:28):
to ga to, uh, not necessarily gambleon yourself, but believe in yourself.
Right.
Always take that shot.
Mm. Right?
Because again, I'm 52, you're27, you're not even 30 yet.
Right?
So, you know, I'm lookingat you like yours.
Yours a young, you'rea young woman, right?
So, but you're young.
And, and you're doing a similarthing, like you were, you
(05:49):
rolled the dice on yourself.
There's no.
I think the earlier do that, the better.
Yeah.
Right.
Because agree, you have a muchlonger lead time, or not lead time,
but you're, the length of time thatyou can learn from that experience
is, is much greater than waiting.
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
But again, like, you know, Colonel Sandersdidn't start till lose in his fifties.
Elon Musk didn't start tillhe was like in his forties.
(06:10):
You know, a lot of, there's alot of people who were like super
successful entrepr entrepreneurs.
They didn't start until they're, youknow, late in their forties, whatever.
Right.
But it's because they had amaturity level that they didn't
have when they were younger.
Right.
But it.
If you have that maturity level whenyou're younger and you can kind of
see if you can see the matrix as itwere, like, go ahead and take the shot
because you'll learn from the loss.
Even if you don't win, actually you learnmore from your losses than than you.
(06:32):
You learn more when you lose.
Absolutely.
So you're just trying to condenseall that down and then, well then
I did have an interaction with God.
That's what actually launched a podcast.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
So the, this one, theBusiness Boulder or other one?
Well, no, the Rogue Disciplewas the initial idea.
(06:52):
Okay.
Uh, I had a friend, and I've knownhim for, oh, I don't know, since I
got here in Wilmington about, I don'tknow, 2, 3, 4 years ago he said, he
says, man, we should do a podcast.
And I was like, yeah, I don'tknow, but there's so much
going on to start whatever.
Mm. So the idea for a podcast wasactually floated to me by my friend.
Years ago, and I just was like,I wrote it off, wrote it off.
(07:13):
I didn't have time.
Like scattered Brainin, had toomuch stuff going on, couldn't focus.
Mm. My life wasn't in a place whereI could do it, but for whatever
reason, and it happens to everybodydifferently, but there comes a point
for a believer where you just havemany experience with God, where it's
undeniable that God's hand is at work.
(07:35):
And I have been, I'venot believed in anything.
Pretty much my whole life.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
So, so did you have like oneexperience like that where you
were like, it was three in a row.
Okay.
And so it was like after that I said,okay, God has revealed himself to me.
And I said, all right, I get it.
Now it's time for me to start seeking you.
(07:56):
Wow.
So that messed with me for a long time.
It still does because, you know, as a,you know, I, I, I used to say I was an
atheist, and that's an easy thing tosay when you don't believe in anything.
But it's kind of like an atheist says,we don't believe that God is there.
Mm. Right.
Yeah.
Um.
I went further thanmost atheists would go.
(08:16):
I was like, I don't believe in anythingexcept what I can do with these two hands.
So I don't, I don't believe you'regonna show up today until you show up.
Mm. You can say anything true.
Right.
So I didn't believe anything thatanybody said unless, unless I actually
saw materialize concrete evidence.
Yeah.
You know, I didn't believe thatI was gonna wake up the next
morning until, unless I woke up.
Wow.
(08:36):
So it's a, it's a differentway to think about stuff.
Because just going, well,I don't believe in God.
That's, that's, anybody can say that,but having no concept of it at all.
Mm-hmm.
Is if you've been, if you've grown up ina faith, if it's one thing, if you came
from, if you have a similar story to whereI'm at, it was like, yeah, dude, I didn't
believe in nothing until, until somethinghappens and it's just irrefutable proof.
(08:59):
Yes.
So the podcast was that.
It was, I didn't know what I was gonna do.
Was I gonna have a life change?
I was going from one thing, I wasgonna transition to something else.
This thing was, it took a lot of time.
It was a lot of effort.
It was a big pain in the butt,but it was a big monetary payoff.
All that was gonna go away, and I wasgonna have time and freedom, but I didn't.
(09:20):
I was like, wow, what amI gonna do to make money?
Mm. What am I gonna do?
How am I gonna fill that time?
What am I gonna do?
And then a voice comes into myhead and says, start a podcast.
Now.
I didn't think about that.
The thought had already beenthere, but it wasn't me.
It came from somewhere else.
So I say, God justthumped it into my head.
Mm. As soon as that thought went throughmy ears, three minutes later, I mean,
I already knew what I was gonna do.
(09:40):
I was like, I, I'm gonna start a podcast.
I'm gonna talk about how.
People came to the faith, youknow, what it means to 'em, how
they interacted with it, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
It's gonna be structured this way.
I'm gonna ask these ques, Ialready, three minutes later, I knew
everything about what I was gonna do.
The next thought after that was,uh, that I had was, I don't know
how to monetize a faith podcast.
Mm-hmm.
(10:00):
So.
That's hence the Business BuilderPodcast, because that's an easy one to do.
Yeah.
Who doesn't wanna sit around andtalk about their business, why they
do what they do for their customers?
Yeah.
You know, I mean, you'rein digital marketing.
It's all about messaging.
It's all about get.
What do you do for your customers?
How do you solve their problem?
And then you gotta push it outon the right channels to get
in front of the right eyeballs.
(10:21):
Mm, right.
Well, I'm not doing all that.
The only thing I'm doing is sitting downand saying, Hey, let's talk about this.
Right.
You do X, Y, Z. Tell us about that.
Right, exactly.
And then I chop it up and give it to you.
I'm like, I can make moneyfor that, because that's just
basically outsource content.
Oh, very cool.
That's all I'm doing.
I was wondering how yourbusiness model works.
That's it.
So that's really cool's.
I take the long form podcast, I chopit up 'cause I'm gonna edit anyway.
(10:41):
Yeah.
And then I turn it over to you for yyou know, social media is a one, but
there's like 10 other ways to use it.
That's what my problem is, is people arelike, well what I do with this, like, what
would you do with it if, if it was yours?
Yeah.
Well I wanted to actually segueback to something that you said
that I find, you know, really.
(11:01):
Kind of thematic at, at least, especiallyfor people who are in my age group.
So if you look at like late Gen Z,early millennial, like people who are
kind of just starting out in theircareer, even into their mid thirties.
I think the tone of our world, andespecially the tone of business, is that
it is on you and it's in your hands to besuccessful and to make something happen.
(11:25):
Right?
There's not really, um, talk abouttrusting in God for your success.
There's not really talk about, youknow, in those gaps in the times
when you're not making money.
Lean on the Lord, youknow, seek him first.
It's all on you to figure it out.
It sounds like that's kind of what youbelieved before you found the Lord.
Is that true?
To a degree, yeah.
But you know, we're, we're almost 30 yearsapart, so the, the world that you guys got
(11:50):
born into kind of sucked because, well,it does it when, when you were born, it.
It does a lot to determine whatyour trajectory is gonna look like.
Yeah.
So, um, a lot of people your age, I getit, it you, you got born into a time
where a lot of stuff was going down.
My parents are baby boomers, right.
So everything in the UnitedStates was on the way up.
(12:10):
Every single asset class was going upand up and up and up and up and it,
it, especially real estate, real estatejust kept improving over time until
these till 2008 when that bubble hit.
Right.
So.
You guys are born into it wherestuff is just all like this.
Yeah.
And so it was hard to figureout where do you fit in.
Yeah.
And the culture too at thetime is totally different.
(12:31):
So when you were in yourteens, it's totally different
from when I was in my teens.
Stuff made sense back then.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And it, when you guys are coming around,it's like everything's nebulous, so it
was hard to pin down certain things.
So there's a certain apathy that.
Younger people have that.
You know, boomers didn'thave, and I'm a Gen Xer.
(12:52):
We were born in the middle of everything.
We don't care.
Right.
I dunno if you've everseen the movie Fight Club.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
Well we didn't have a great depression.
We didn't have a great war.
Right.
We didn't have anything to define us.
Our, our, our great War is a spiritualwar in our great Depression is our lives.
That's the way everybody felt.
Mm. And so that movie just hit homewhat people my age were thinking.
'cause we're like.
(13:12):
What, what have we got to show for?
They call it Gen X because wewere the first generation since
the Industrial Revolution to getthe same age as our parents with
having less, less opportunity, lessmoney, everything's more expensive.
And you guys came aroundkind of like that, where.
After the, the explosion of digital media.
You guys are born in an era where a screenwas something that you've had since birth.
(13:34):
Mm-hmm.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
So bringing it back towards faith.
If you don't have faith in any kindof higher power and it's all on you.
Right.
So you can, there's a lot of pressurethere because the, the pressure to
succeed because you sink or swim, Ithink it's a good and a bad thing.
Mm-hmm.
It's a good thing becauseyou'll learn how to swim.
(13:55):
Right.
Or you'll just drown.
Yeah.
However, the hierarchical structureof companies is different now, right?
There's no loyalty anymore, right?
There's no employee loyalty.
There's no company loyalty.
Mm-hmm.
You know, back in theday, they had pensions.
You could work for 'em for 40years, and that was your thing.
That was their prevailingadvice when I was young.
Get outta school.
Either go to college or get a job.
(14:16):
You stay at that job for 30 yearsuntil you retire and everything's cool.
Right?
That dream was dead by the time I was 15.
It didn't exist, right?
What existed for, for the generationbefore me didn't exist for my generation.
And so for us, what existed for us atthe time doesn't exist for you guys.
So there is this huge pushto be, to be doing something.
(14:36):
There's an overemphasis on, I think,um, what I call the hustle culture.
I. It's like, get out there and this,everybody wants to be, everybody wants to
be doing something, this, that, whatever.
It's like if you can't bringsomething valuable to the marketplace,
then you're not gonna make it.
How do you know if it's valuable or not?
Are you getting hired?
You know, you have to throw somethingout to the market to see if it's,
even if, if what you're offering issomething that people need, if it's
(14:57):
not, you're not gonna make money.
Right?
So I guess they wouldcall that market research.
But if you don't solve a problemthat people, enough people are having
that you can sustain yourself, right?
You're gonna have to switchand do something else.
See what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So we already kind of knew thatgoing in, but we had these old
institutions that we could rely on.
Have you ever been laughing with yourbest friend or your business partner
(15:19):
and turned to each other and said, weshould totally start our own podcast?
But then you never actually triedbecause there were just too many
moving pieces and things to learn,and it all felt super overwhelming.
Well, hey, you're talking to somebodywho has been there and done that.
Not only could I get you started withthe right equipment and tools, but I can
also walk you through every step of thebehind the scenes work that nobody sees.
(15:43):
Like writing episode show notes andediting your recordings, creating
cover art in a jingle, attractingguests, and even marketing your show
for a limited time, I am offeringone-on-one podcast production services
at a very affordable hourly ratewith no contracts or startup fees.
If you are finally ready to make yourpodcast dream a reality, let's have a
(16:05):
conversation and we can see if workingtogether is a good fit for both of us.
Go to www.ledbettermarketing.comfor more information.
You younger people are coming out ofit and almost everybody wants to try
to be some kind of an entrepreneur.
Nobody wants to work for the man, right?
Uhhuh, I tell people, and this is some.
Some of the advice that I heardon a podcast years ago, the guy
(16:28):
said, look, all these people thinkthey're gonna be entrepreneurs.
Like not everybody's an entrepreneur.
Mm. It's okay to be an employee.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Especially if you don't,it's a lot less stress.
You don't have to wear all the hats.
You only have to fileone tax return, you know?
Yeah.
And you only got, you know, as longas you play within the rules, it
you, it's, some people are meantto be employees, and that's okay.
(16:49):
Yeah.
Don't put your nine to five if you don'thave, you know, don't quit your day job.
If you're not already making money,if that side hustle starts replacing
your income, then you can quit.
Yes.
But you don't just quit beforehand.
You gotta do something to earn moneybecause you still have to work.
You gotta eat.
Yes.
You got bills to pay.
Especially if you've got kids.
Mm-hmm.
If you've got kids, how areyou gonna feed your kids?
If you're like, well, I'm gonna,I'm gonna quit my job and I'm
(17:12):
gonna, you know, do an Etsy shop.
It's like, really?
What?
Have you made anything?
Well, no, but I gotthis really great idea.
It's like, that's wonderful.
Have you sold anything?
Yeah.
Right.
You haven't even made anything.
You have zero customersand no sales, like.
How are you going to eat?
Right.
Right.
You know, we need to be practical.
We need to ease into it.
I'm glad you said that.
(17:32):
'cause this actually segues really wellinto the next thing I wanna talk about.
So, on my Instagram, I'llput out polls a lot of times.
Mm-hmm.
And I'll ask people who are inmy specific podcast demographic,
Hey, please answer this.
Let me know your thoughts on these things.
I'm gonna throw like fourdifferent stats at you.
Okay.
And this is all about career stuff.
And I was asking about a hundredpeople that responded to this.
(17:55):
So 60% of respondents said that they caremore about having a work-life balance than
making money or doing purposeful work.
So work-life balance seems to be themost important thing to most people.
45% say.
If their success was guaranteed,they would start their own
business or work for themselves.
(18:16):
34% say that they fear career rejection.
So that would prevent them fromtaking a risk in their career.
And that could be like applyingor interviewing for a job, not
getting it, starting a businessand failing, things like that.
And lastly, I. 91% say that stayinghumble is key to career success.
(18:36):
So that was a lot.
But what I'm getting out of this is thata lot of people want work life balance.
So maybe those are gonna be moreof like the nine to fives, I think.
Because when you're anentrepreneur, it takes a long
time, I think, to achieve that.
But I also thought it was interesting,45% said that if their success was
guaranteed, they would work forthemselves or start their own business.
(18:58):
So I think as we can see from this, I.
Taking that risk, starting your ownbusiness, that's a huge risk that a lot
of people are simply not willing to take.
So if there are people out there whoare thinking, I don't know if that's me.
I don't know if I can do this.
They have a lot of fear of failure.
They have a lot of those thoughts goingin their head of, you know, is it just
easier to stay with my nine to five?
(19:20):
What would you say to those people?
Like where should they start?
What questions should theyask themselves to figure out?
The direction they should take.
Well, the first thing I'd say to'em is, welcome to everybody else.
Right?
Um, you're not alone.
Everybody feels that.
So, but everything's a risk.
Everything's a calculated risk.
Right?
You're gonna, you're, what's therisk if you don't Mm. That's good.
(19:41):
Right?
That's good.
I mean, you're, you're at where you're at.
You're already un unhappy or unsatisfied.
What's the risk if you don't Yeah.
You know, it's, it's notan either or question.
You can, you can start a, uh,something on the side, you know,
have your nine to five, like yournine to five is what you do for now.
(20:03):
Your six to 10 is what you'redoing 30 years from now.
You know, so one, get out of the mindset.
That has to be an either or.
Right?
And then also, you know, thiswhole work life balance thing is,
there's no such thing, I don'tthink, I don't think there's a
such thing as a work life balance.
If you're grinding on something,you're working, you have to put all
your, a lot of energy into that.
(20:24):
Your family life is gonna suffer, right?
Mm-hmm.
If you spend, if you overspendtoo much time on your family, you
don't work enough in the businessthat's gonna suffer, right?
So there's.
I don't think there's a balance that canbe achieved as perfect harmonious balance.
It's going to be like this.
It's always gonna be in flux.
Unless you get to a point where, andeven if you're hitting seven and eight
(20:45):
figures, you don't think that as a CEO orA CFO or or a team member in that kind of
organization that it's still like this.
Find me one of those pe.
Find me the person who says Yes.
I have figured out thekey to work-life balance.
I haven't seen him anywhere yet.
Mm. I don't know if anybody said that.
So just put that outta your mind.
There's a risk and then there's sacrifice.
(21:06):
Right.
To take a risk to do X, y, or Z, youhave to sacrifice something else.
When I came down here, I lefteverything that was stable and
everybody thought I was, well, Alot of people thought I was crazy.
Mm. Right.
Why are you leaving a stable job site?
'cause, 'cause I wannaput a bullet in my head.
That's why.
So what's the risk?
If I stay, I'll go.
I'll either go slowly crazyor I'll go crazy fast.
(21:27):
So.
For me that was a easy trade off to make.
But it just goes to prove that onlythose 45%, they're the ones who
are like, oh yeah, I'll do this.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So it's 55% are like, nah,nah, I'm fine where I'm at.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Because they're like doingthe unbalancing of the scales
for them is too uncomfortable.
Right.
Which is fine, then that's fine.
(21:48):
Like, not everybody is built for thisand, and you shouldn't like go to where
you have the best outcome, where yourtime and energy and effort is rewarded.
Best, right?
Whether that's, whether that's as anemployee or whether that's as a, you know,
a consultant or, you know, entrepreneur,owner, operator, whatever that looks like.
(22:11):
Find that and then just, you know, doubledown on that groove because there's no,
there's no benefit for you going intosomewhere where you don't fit and then
trying to force it to stay there, right?
Because you'll just run yourmental health and your sanity
into the ground a hundred percent.
Right?
I love that.
So.
Those of us who are likeentrepreneurial or we just have
(22:32):
to have something going on.
As a friend of mine, he told me this.
He goes, he said, dude,you're that person who can't.
He's like, you have to explore that.
He's like, you just have that creativeside that you cannot keep it down, right?
You have to go explore.
He goes, A lot of peoplearen't gonna do that.
He's like, but you, no matterwhat, you're gonna have to.
Like, explore it, you know?
And I was like, yeah, I guess so.
Yeah.
(22:52):
Not that I, and not that I wanna spinall the plates, I don't, I don't like
spinning a whole bunch of plates.
I really wanna focus on the onething, but necessity dictates that
I have to spin plates right now.
Mm-hmm.
It's not, not the most enjoyable thingto do, so I'm not romanticizing it.
A lot of the stuff is a pain in thebutt, which I would gladly outsource.
When?
When I can.
Right.
It's coming 'cause, right.
'cause I don't wanna have todo all this plate spinning.
(23:14):
Absolutely.
I've been doing it for a long time.
It is.
It's not all that enjoyable.
So there's a difference betweenbeing busy and being productive.
Mm-hmm.
I'd rather be productive than busy.
Well, it's also like what areyou willing to suffer for?
Like that's what passion is.
What do you care about the most?
That you're willing to put the timein and you know, not enjoy every
second of it because you believethat one day it will be worth it.
(23:34):
You know, yeah.
Sacrifice, right?
Yeah.
You, you're sacrificing something for now.
I mean, that's what, that'swhat the whole half of that is.
I mean, the Old Testament'sall about sacrifice.
Mm. You know?
Mm. Boy, Jesus himself sacrifice.
Yeah.
Right.
So to your point.
You gotta get clear onwhat it is you want.
Well, something I think that reallyholds people back is fear and and
(23:55):
doubt, and just believing thatnegative self-talk in their head.
So I'm curious to hear in your journeyon your way to being an entrepreneur and
starting all these adventures by yourself,what kind of limiting beliefs or fear
came up and how did you work through thatand what role did faith play in that?
Well, faith didn't play a roleuntil about two years ago, so almost
(24:17):
every single decision that you'retalking about I made before that.
It wasn't really the fearof if I could do it or not.
It was, it was it.
Stuff came afterwards, like I gotinto something and then it was
like, whoa, this is a lot more thanwhat I thought it was gonna be.
Mm. And so.
It was the fear, it was more so a lack ofknowledge and understanding of just how
big the, uh, the endeavor was and how muchenergy I was gonna have to put behind it.
(24:42):
You know?
It was definitely,there's a fear of failure.
A fear of not making enoughmoney just like that.
Everybody at some point,me included, will have, I.
The imposter syndrome will creep in,but it's usually in your down, you
know, close to hitting rock bottom.
Yeah.
And that's when you'relike, what am I even doing?
Am I doing this right?
Does anybody even care?
Right.
Am I doing anything good?
Right.
You know, and those have come around.
And really what got me out ofthose were a couple of key good
(25:05):
friends, some really good books.
There's like, just like my friend said.
You know, there is a voice in me thatwill, it's kinda like my internal David
Goggins, you know, I'll get to a bottomwhere I'll start doubting everything.
And, and it's happened a couple of times.
It doesn't happen a lot, but it's, itdefinitely has happened a few times.
Mm-hmm.
And that voice willsay, what are you doing?
(25:27):
Like, well, I'm here.
It's like.
Yeah, we'll do something, you know,well, I don't know what to do.
I don't know.
Just go do something.
So it's like there's this, thisinternal voice, for me anyway,
that's like get off your, get offyour butt and go do something.
One thing that I read somewhereis that action kills fear.
So if you find yourself there, take.
Gigantic action.
(25:48):
And if you don't know what that is,then you should have a plan, right?
Write everything out.
Write out all your dreams, all your goals,this, that, whatever is, get a huge piece
of paper or get, you know, a notebook,whatever, and write everything down.
Then just start attacking something,because if you don't, you'll stay stuck.
(26:09):
And if you're, if you're notmoving forward, you might
as well be going backwards.
There is no such thing as staying still.
If you're staying still,you're going backwards.
So you're either going forward oryou're going backwards as it is now.
There's no, you cannot, you can't rest.
You can't sit still.
You can't stay still.
You have to be doing something.
And if your, if your job or your.
(26:29):
Your business doesn't facilitate that,then it needs to be something else, right?
Yeah.
Everybody will have thatfear, first of all, for sure.
Right?
So if you're watchingthis, you're gonna have it.
Everybody has it.
If you read any of the books of thepeople that you like or your, or
their podcasts or personalities,whatever, they're all gonna talk about
it and they all say the same thing.
You have the fear comesfirst, action comes second.
(26:50):
Mm-hmm.
So you just gotta beat fear with action.
I love that.
That's a sweet advice.
And, and on, on the part of action.
Doesn't even matter if you take thewrong action because you'll, you'll
get feedback on that and then correct.
So, but the worst thingto do is inaction, right?
You can take a good action, youcan take a bad action, but the
absolute worst thing is inaction.
Mm, absolutely.
(27:12):
Self-doubt is inevitable, but lettingit stop you is a choice, right?
It's a choice.
Yeah.
And we gotta be careful with thatbecause it could become a mindset.
So, um, I think it was Vince Lombardithat said, you know, habits are
what separate winners and losers.
So it's not, it's not whatyou do, it's your habits that
dictate what happens to you.
So if you're in the habit of justtaking action all the time, you
(27:35):
probably will get there less frequently.
And when you do get there,you won't stay there as long.
Mm. And you just stop taking action.
Somebody's gonna have to comealong and kick you out of that.
I love it.
Well, I just have one last questionfor you and then we'll close out.
If you had to say one thing to someonewho's about my age, they're feeling
overworked, they're feeling discouragedabout their career, they're scared
(27:58):
to take risks, they just kind of feelparalyzed, and they don't know what to do.
What's the biggest thing that youwould tell them to encourage them?
Serve something better thanyourself, bigger than yourself.
Service, go serve someone orsomething bigger than yourself.
That's good because again, I get it right.
I know a lot of people your age.
I've talked to a lot of 'em.
You know, there is a prevailingmindset of why do any of this?
(28:22):
Yeah, why get involved?
Why do, because you, you can see, it'slike, well, if I go, I don't wanna work
for, you know, some corporation who'slike, I'm just helping them make money.
They don't care about me.
I get all that.
Right?
Right.
But what else are you gonna do?
You know, at some point you're gonna,you're going to work for somebody
else until you work for yourself.
Yes.
(28:42):
Right.
Move or get stuck.
Stay or get stuck.
You know, I mean, take action or be stuck.
Well, I don't know what to do.
It's like ask, you know, that's a problem.
Yeah.
There are, there are pe goto people that you trust.
Somebody might know you better thanyou think you know yourself and can
say, you know, what, you know with yourtalents and with your, you know, your
mindset, your talents, your passions.
(29:03):
You might wanna do something likethis and it might be a good fit.
But definitely go servesomebody better than yourself.
Go volunteer somewhere.
Right?
It doesn't have to be a church,doesn't have to be, uh, religious.
Go volunteer somewhere.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I knew a friend of mine that wouldgo into old folks homes and he would
take balloons and do, like, he wouldjust go in there and blow up balloons.
I. And go and give 'em to the oldladies as they're playing cards.
(29:24):
Aw.
You know, I love that.
And they did too.
They were like, oh, that's so, you know.
So he comes in there, he justmakes their day, you know?
Yeah.
That's awesome.
He would go in and like take hardcandies and whatnot, you know, and
just hang out and just talk to 'em.
Yeah.
And he just came in.
They didn't know he was coming.
He just shows up and just makes their day.
Well, what do you think?
Like that ripple effect, right?
That you just made a whole group of oldladies stay playing pinochle, you know,
(29:48):
what does that do for you on the inside?
Yeah.
And then if, if that's the kindof example that you have and
then your children see that, youknow, what does that do for them?
Yeah, so I. If you get, if you get stuckand you're thinking that way, it's 'cause
you're only thinking about yourself.
'cause think about otherpeople percent, right?
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
So you're focused on other people.
And I also think not only does that justhelp you get to where you wanna go, but
(30:10):
it also I think takes you out of your ownmind, takes the focus off of you and your
problems and your perceived inadequacies.
And then you're feeling more motivatedto continue to give back, to find ways
to make a difference in the world.
And then you don't have thatpessimistic view as much of like.
Oh, why do I have to do this?
Why do I have to to work?
You know, you, you kind of shiftinto this mindset of gratitude.
(30:31):
Mm-hmm.
And you realize how much, howgood you really do have it.
Honestly, it's all about perspective.
Right?
Perspective For sure.
All day.
And it can be, you know, Iget it can be hard to change.
Mm-hmm.
But.
But it is a choice, right?
It's a choice.
Yeah.
You get to have a choice.
I can do that.
You know?
I can choose to be here.
I can choose to be here.
I'm cynical by nature.
I look at the bad side of thingsbefore the good, and I'm impatient.
(30:54):
It's like it's a trifecta cocktail.
That is, it's the, those are the negativepersonality traits that I have, which
I worked and continue to work on.
'cause I don't want to expressthose only all the time.
Mm-hmm.
Because it just makes me somebodythat's unpleasant to be around.
But.
My early thought, probably when Iwas in my twenties, something would
(31:15):
come up and I would immediately, Iwould go, I would have a list of all
the reasons why it wasn't gonna work.
Mm. Like, why not?
Can't happen.
Da da.
And it was just like a, you know,a printoff sheet in my head.
And like, what a, what aawful way to look at stuff.
Yeah.
When presented with something.
Right.
What's all the good stuff, you know?
I mean, I still do that, but now I run itthrough the positive filter first before
(31:38):
I run it through the negative filter.
Oh, that's good.
But it's a better way,it's much more enjoyable.
'cause otherwise you'relooking at everything in the
and with the glasses of No.
Or, or why not?
Or it can't be, you know?
Yeah.
Instead of going, well, this could work.
You know?
Could it not work?
Sure.
But it could work.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
Well, how do we know?
I don't know.
We're gonna try it.
Yeah, we're gonna try it and see.
(31:59):
Maybe it'll work out.
Maybe it's like, do you cook?
Are you asking me?
Yeah, you cook.
Listen, I can follow a recipe,but I am by no means a good cook.
But see, say that you said, you said thekeywords, I can follow a recipe, right?
So when you follow a recipe,it hasn't got a chance.
It's gonna turn out great.
That's right.
It does sometimes and it mightnot turn out good at all.
Right?
It doesn't.
Other times.
(32:19):
Yeah.
So, but that's the thing.
I've been cooking foursince I was seven, so.
Wow.
And I worked in, I worked inrestaurants for a long time too, so.
Mm-hmm.
So I know how to cook, but sometimes,you know, I'll cook something that
I've cooked, you know, a thousandtimes before and it just sucks.
Yeah.
It's like, this does not taste like,I want it to taste like, oh yes.
(32:40):
And I'm not gonna waste it, so I'mgonna eat it anyway, but, but I'm
like, I know I can do better than that.
Mm. It just didn't turnout right that time.
I don't know why, you know?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Whatever.
But I know I can do it.
But you still, it still have,you gotta take the shot, right?
I mean, nothing happensunless you take action.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Because otherwise that, the trap that Iwould fall into is analysis paralysis.
(33:00):
Mm. And so you'll sit there and go,I don't, I forget who wrote the book.
There's a book out therecalled Ready, fire, aim, right?
Mm-hmm.
Just do something first soyou could course correct.
Look a boat or a plane.
When they take off,they have a destination.
Right.
And they, it's never a straight line.
There's always coursecorrections on the way.
Right.
But you can't give or make it anywhereunless you're, unless you start moving.
(33:21):
Mm. So get moving.
So good.
I love it.
Well, Justin, where can people find you?
How can they connect with you?
Road Disciple or BusinessBuilder podcast on YouTube.
Mm. Uh, look up eitherone of those on Instagram.
You can get me there.
And if you're in Wilmington.
You could come to thegym if you wanna train.
Yes, absolutely.
I'll link all of those, uh, inthe show notes for you guys.
(33:42):
Justin, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
I really appreciate, appreciate it.
Yeah, appreciate it.
I love it.
Thank you for listening to theirWrestling with Life podcast.
If this episode sparked something inyour brain or made you think of someone
specific, please share with them.
Let someone else know that they arenot alone in their struggles today.
And please rate the podcast onwhatever platform you're listening on.
(34:04):
If you're a Spotify listener, you canleave a comment on this episode with your
thoughts on what we covered, and I wannahear about what God is doing in your life.
So tell me, and if you're hungry for evenmore inspirational content just like this,
you can give me a follow on Instagram.
At Emco LED 11, I am always postingpolls to get a gauge on what
(34:24):
everyone is struggling with without.
There sharing everyday little lifemoments and encouraging all of us
to find both beauty and purpose inthe midst of our daily struggles.
So come join in on the good vibesand real quick before you go, this
is just a little quick reminderon what this podcast is not.
Okay.
A wrestling with Life podcast andany content posted on my channels is
(34:48):
presented solely for informationaland educational purposes.
The use of this information is at yourown risk and should not be substituted
for the advice of a therapist,pastor, or any qualified professional.
If you are struggling with yourmental health, please consider seeking
professional help or contacting the9 8 8 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
(35:10):
Please don't try to getthrough this by yourself, okay?
You are not alone.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.