What's up y'all! In this empowering episode that will give you all the feels, I'm sitting down with certified leadership coach Jennifer Brown to explore the transformative concept that you are not your thoughts. Jen shares her personal journey into coaching, the pivotal mindset shifts that helped her break free from limiting beliefs, and the tools she uses to help clients take control of their mental narratives and thrive in their businesses.
Whether you're battling negative self-talk, struggling with imposter syndrome, or just curious about what a life coach actually does—this conversation is packed with relatable insights and practical advice.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
-
The difference between your thoughts and your identity
-
How to recognize and interrupt negative thought loops
-
Jennifer’s favorite tools for self-awareness and emotional regulation
-
The power of curiosity in mindset work
-
Why observing your thoughts (without judgment) is the first step toward change
- How to integrate your faith into "self-help"
Resources Mentioned:
- Email Jen: jen@journeyofgracecoaching.com
- Connect with Jen on LinkedIn
- Follow Wrestling With Life
- Need help launching a podcast?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
EmLed (00:24):
All right everyone.
Welcome back to theWrestling With Life podcast.
I am your host, em led on the mic, andI am so excited to welcome my friend
Jennifer Brown, to the mic today.
Welcome, Jen.
Thank you
Jennifer Brown (00:37):
so much, Emily.
I'm so excited to be here.
I just really feel.
That we were put in thisplace together for a reason.
So thank you for, for having you here.
Absolutely.
And I love your podcast.
Oh,
EmLed (00:49):
thank you so much.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think the Lord divinelyorchestrated us meeting and I am
pumped for our conversation today.
When we chatted on the phone gettingconnected for this podcast, I think
we both felt really quickly that wealign in, in many ways, in in our
faith and our current season of life,
Jennifer Brown (01:07):
honestly.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And I have goosebumps now rememberingthat conversation because I brought
up my word of the year, which ledus to find that we share a church.
Yeah, go to the same church.
Exactly.
And just being called forward inour faith is such a beautiful thing.
It is,
EmLed (01:27):
it is.
And I'm so excited to share youwith my audience because you are on
a very exciting journey right now.
So Jen, you have been a foreignservice officer with the Department
of State for over 20 years.
Providing leadership coaching andalso personal and professional
development to clients.
And these are people whoare typically having like a
(01:47):
midlife crisis, is that right?
Some I, I wouldn't say crisis.
Okay.
But we
Jennifer Brown (01:51):
find ourselves in stages of transition
personally and professionally.
Mm-hmm.
And so wherever leaders are at home, atwork, how do we rise to the next level?
What do we do when we feel stuck?
Yeah.
And burned out and stressed out.
And.
Finding ourselves when we startto question who am I and what
am I supposed to be doing?
(02:11):
Oh,
EmLed (02:12):
so good.
So what led you to this line of work?
Like, I'm assuming there'ssome really cool backstory.
'cause no one just becomes alife coach overnight, you know?
No,
Jennifer Brown (02:21):
no.
And actually, so my journey started23 years, 24 years ago when I
took the foreign service examto join the Department of State.
I became a foreign service officer.
Spent about half of my career overseas.
I became a leader of some incredibleteams, and at one point I found myself
in that burned out leader state.
(02:43):
The demands were incredibly high.
We had some personnel challenges.
I felt I was not adequate.
Sure.
You know, to do the job.
Sure.
And a wonderful boss of minerecommended I get a leadership coach.
Wow.
Was that a game changer for me?
So I did my work internally.
(03:03):
I learned, uh, how to better delegate.
I learned how to betterempower my teams and cultivate
what's really important to me.
Heart-centered connections.
Mm. And when I started doing that,I really saw the ripple effect.
We went from this.
Kinda low morale, low production team toa really impressive, high functioning,
(03:26):
uh, family, really in the workplace.
And when I saw that, I knewcoaching was important to me.
And then fast forward a few yearslater, I went through some of
my own personal challenges Sure.
As we all do.
Sure.
And I got a life coach.
And if I didn't know beforethat really hammered it in.
So I knew coaching was.
(03:48):
Something I wanted to do becauseI love helping to guide people
on their journeys, right?
Wherever they find themselves.
We don't have to be alone.
And it was at that moment, uh,the Department of State, um, and.
Was encouraging some, uh, coachingopportunities and I took the leap
of faith and started on that path.
(04:08):
I became an internal leadershipcoach for the Department of State,
working with colleagues, leadingteams, and I also started my
company Journey of Grace Coaching.
Yes.
And was working with.
Clients privately.
And uh, just Friday, I officiallyretired from the Department of State
(04:29):
to take the leap of faith even further.
Wow.
Uh, in my private life and leadershipcoaching, this is Congratulations.
Thank you.
I'm so excited for you.
I am too.
It is scary, of course, because I'mpivoting Uhhuh, about half of my life
has been with the Department of State.
Right.
And so this is a big step forward.
It was one I really prayed about.
(04:51):
I asked for a sign.
I got a sign, and I knewit was the right time.
Do I have all the answers figured out?
No way.
And what I know is this is my purpose.
Mm. And so I'm super excited.
I am, I'm moving forward with my business.
I love this community here.
Me too.
It's just so amazing.
(05:11):
There's so much support and I'mjust looking forward to what
God has in store next for me.
Oh,
EmLed (05:16):
I'm excited too.
I'm excited to see where he takesyou, but I just first wanna commend
you on having the strength to step infaith because I don't know about you.
I've gotten many signs beforeand still haven't stepped.
I think the fact that youtook, a first step at one sign
Jennifer Brown (05:33):
Well, I will say I don't always.
Okay.
I was, this was a really hard one, soback in January, actually, it's funny
you say that there was something Iwas praying about and maybe somewhat
in line with this career change.
It wasn't the exact questionI was asking before.
Okay.
I think I had a few signs come my way.
I didn't listen.
I was at the gym and I wentto lift a barbell up and I
(05:56):
hit my head on the equipment.
Oh no.
And I thought, okay, God'sreally giving me a sign now.
Like he's hammering meover the head on this.
Right.
Okay.
Maybe that's a stretch, but in, I reallythink like it all worked for a reason.
And so when we don't listen andwe don't trust our intuition
and trust our faith sometimes.
(06:17):
You know, it comes backto bite us a little bit.
Absolutely.
EmLed (06:20):
Absolutely.
So what was your, that wasn'tyour one sign, I'm assuming.
No, that was not my one sign.
What was your sign thatprompted you to make the leap?
Jennifer Brown (06:28):
Uh, so it's funny, I was chatting with one of my best friends and
she said, ask for a bird, a, a cardinal.
And I happened to be on a, uh, workrelated call, and it wasn't a bird.
But someone had in theirbackground a butterfly.
And in my company logo, I have abutterfly in the middle of a compass.
(06:51):
Oh, cool.
For transition.
For, for evolution.
Right,
right.
And I thought that's the sign I needed.
I just knew there was something in thatmoment when I saw it, it was like the
clarity, the curtain was pulled back.
EmLed (07:03):
Wow.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So that was all you neededto be like, okay, God, let's
Jennifer Brown (07:07):
go.
It.
It really was, and I think sometimeswhen we sit with ourselves, we
get the answers if we listen.
EmLed (07:17):
Yeah.
Yep.
I have heard lately.
So many different people and so manydifferent resources kind of saying the
same message, which is like all of ushave moments where we get mad at God and
we're like, God, why aren't you speaking?
Why aren't you moving?
Like God, why?
Why, why?
And we get so angry at him, butwhat are we doing to actually
prepare ourselves to hear him?
(07:37):
Yeah.
Are we quieting our souls?
Are we turning off our phones,our TVs, all the endless
noise and inputs of the world?
Like when do we stop to actuallyslow and listen for his voice?
And yeah, that really alignswith what you just said.
Jennifer Brown (07:51):
Yeah, I'm not above.
Having my phone on and not being in tune,but I know that I don't feel my best Sure.
When I'm not taking that time.
Yeah.
I do try in the morning, um, as part of myroutine to have that quiet devotion time.
Yeah.
I have a few, um, devotions that willcome in, so that's really all I'll
look at on my phone is to read thoseand sit and then just kind of close
(08:16):
my eyes and sit with my hands open.
Like, let me just hear from you.
Mm. And, and be in touch.
Mm. But when I don't do that right,it's just easy to go, go, go and think
that I'm moving in the right direction.
I. Absolutely.
But not always.
Absolutely.
EmLed (08:32):
No, for sure.
I'm curious to know, how many peoplewould you say you've worked with on an
individual coaching basis at this point?
Jennifer Brown (08:40):
Um, well, that's a good question.
In terms of numbers, uh, formy certification, I had to have
over a hundred hours of coaching.
Okay.
Um, so I'm at the, the associatecertified coaching level through the
International Coaching Federation.
Okay.
Uh, and so I'd say roughlyaround 20 different clients.
Uh, give or take, uh, to hit thatlevel and that number's still growing.
EmLed (09:02):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
What would you say is the commonlink between these people?
Like are they all about middle aged?
Are they parents?
Like what season of life are they in?
Jennifer Brown (09:11):
They really range.
They range.
I have worked with leaders whowere very new in their career.
Okay.
Uh, looking for confidence,stepping into a new role.
Sure.
I have worked with a. Senior leaders whowere also stepping into a new leadership
role and had some questions aboutbuilding a new, as they stepped into
that new role, building that new team.
(09:32):
Sure.
Uh, I have worked with folks who werelike, I don't know how to manage up and
I have this rough boss and what do I do?
Sure.
Um.
I have worked with people whowere really questioning, is
this the right career for me?
And, uh, my kids are aboutto graduate high school.
What do I do now?
Yeah.
And where am I in my spiritual journey,I should say, on the spiritual side.
(09:56):
I let clients bring thatforward as they want to.
I. As they feel comfortable.
Sure, I'm solid in my faith, uh, butI leave that door open for people.
I love that as they come forward.
EmLed (10:06):
Yeah, I love that.
So what would you say of all thedifferent clients that you've worked
with, is there a similar link orreoccurring theme that you see come up?
Like what's the basic human recurringtheme you see in these sessions?
Jennifer Brown (10:22):
People want to move forward in a way to grow.
They want Definitely.
Yeah.
They're, they're seeking that inner peace.
Sure.
I. And it doesn't mean that they haveto change any circumstances around them.
They are looking for the growth inside.
Yeah.
How do I manage where I am?
How do I find joy?
(10:42):
Mm-hmm.
Where I am?
Mm. Sometimes that might mean a careerchange or a life change, but it doesn't.
Have to, because honestly, ifwe just move from job to job or
home to home or relationship torelationship, we don't get to the root.
EmLed (10:58):
Mm mm
Jennifer Brown (10:59):
And the root is internal.
EmLed (11:00):
Mm. I love that you said that.
I think many of us want to make anexternal change in our reality because
that's the type of change that youcan see and feel and others can see.
But.
I agree with you, at least in my ownexperience, a lot of the change that I
wanted to see couldn't happen unless Ireally dug deep and did the inner work
(11:21):
and sat with God and worked through it.
Jennifer Brown (11:24):
Yes, and I love that.
And I mentioned to you prior, um,that your season two episode five
podcasts truly resonated with mebecause it is that perspective.
When I first got into coaching.
Probably over a decade ago, I waslistening to the Life Coaching School with
Brooke Castillo, and her model was always,you have a neutral circumstance, and
(11:48):
from that circumstance, that situation,you then have a thought, and the thought
creates the feelings that create theactions that give us the results.
And I love that becauseit's so simple and so true.
Mm. And so when I think about perspective,I like to actually look at what is the
result that I really want from where I am.
(12:10):
Sure.
Here's my circumstance andwhat's the result that I want.
So if I want that result, then whatactions do I need to really take?
And what feelings do I have to haveto motivate me to do those actions?
Right?
And then what thoughts do I need to have?
To have those feelings.
So I get to choose actually when I slowdown and I'm in tune with God and myself.
(12:34):
Mm. And my surroundings.
I get to choose whatthoughts I want to have.
Mm. Wherever I am.
EmLed (12:39):
Okay.
So I've read many books thatalign with what you're saying.
Um, do you know Jenny Allen?
Do you know that name?
Yeah.
Yeah.
She has a great book called Get Out of Your Head.
Yeah.
That talks exactly aboutwhat you're explaining.
I guess for me, I really struggleto take my thoughts captive, and
that's something that the Lordcommands us to do in the Bible.
(12:59):
Take every thought captive.
What advice do you have whenmaybe you're in a thought spiral?
Mm-hmm.
Or you have a recurring thought that you.
Probably is really a limiting belief thatkeeps coming up and is deeply rooted.
What does that look like?
Could you give like tangible steps
Jennifer Brown (13:16):
or, yes.
Woo.
I, I will start to geek out here.
Yes, please.
Geek out.
I love the mindset work.
Me too.
And I, I love mindfulness
(14:24):
and I'm actually in acertification program right now
called Positive Intelligence.
EmLed (14:30):
Okay.
Jennifer Brown (14:30):
And Zad Shain created this.
Uh, framework because we all havethese, what he calls saboteur voices,
these limiting beliefs, Uhhuh.
And so these saboteurs will showup to tell us we're, you know, we
didn't do well here, so it will beatus up, or we need to please others,
or we need to be perfectionists, orwe need to be hypervigilant in our
(14:55):
surroundings, et cetera, et cetera.
And these voices, these thoughts.
Actually came to be about the timewhen we were five because they took
our inherent strengths of really beingwonderful people, and they started abusing
these strengths that exist in all of us.
(15:16):
And so these thoughts became our go-toin our brain, our operating system.
And so when we start, the stepone is catch that thought.
Catch it, catch it.
Call it out.
Call it out.
And say.
That thought is there.
It's not.
I did something, it'sthe thought is there.
(15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And then from there I encourage,or I try, do a mindfulness.
What, in this program he callsmental fitness a, a PQ rep.
And it's really.
Breathing.
Um, one of the things I love todo is actually take two fingertips
together, like close my eyes and rubtwo fingertips so intently, like I
(15:59):
really feel the ridges in my fingers.
Okay.
And then like, just rub my fingertips downmy palm and take a few minutes because
that tactile sense gets me outta my head.
Okay.
So it's bringing youto the present moment?
It's bringing me to the present moment.
Yeah.
And from there.
I now get to question whatthought is that thought true?
(16:25):
What's really true?
How do I want to bring empathyor curiosity into play?
I. As I think about this thoughtand what I'm going to choose to do.
EmLed (16:36):
Yes.
So curiosity rather
Jennifer Brown (16:38):
than judgment.
Rather than judgment.
Judgment is a saboteur voice for sure.
Okay.
It's the number onesaboteur that we all have.
The judge.
And where does that come from?
The judgment.
Basically from when we werechildren, we developed these
survival skills, if you will.
Yes.
These voices came to be becausewe had strengths, and they started
(16:59):
using these strengths as a way togive us survival, whether it was
physical, emotional, whatever.
Even if we had the bestof childhoods, right?
If we learned at a young age thatour parents rewarded good grades or
involvement in softball or whatever.
Activity.
Right.
All of a sudden we've learned, oh,I get praise when, so if I continue
(17:24):
to do this, people will love me.
Mm. Yep.
And on the flip side, right, if wewere lacking that, then we're I and
I have this saboteur voice, so Iknow the please are all too well.
Oh yeah, it is.
If I do this, then they willlike me, they will accept me.
one of the others is the stickler.
If I'm a perfectionist fordetails, everything's perfect.
(17:47):
Mm-hmm.
I will get promoted.
I will do well.
EmLed (17:51):
Yeah.
Jen, you're describing me.
You're describing me.
I know it so well.
No, everything you're saying,like, I'm kind of geeking out
because I love this stuff too.
I, I love psychology and everythingyou're saying about our childhood
experiences forming us, lines up with.
What I've been studying and learningover the years, but it's different.
Hearing a real life coach sittingnext to me saying the same stuff,
(18:13):
like it's hitting different.
It's pretty cool.
Jennifer Brown (18:15):
It is really cool.
And I get to, for anyone who'sinterested, you could do actually
a free saboteur assessment ifyou go to Positive Intelligence.
I think it's slash uh, saboteur.
Okay.
Um, but if you Google it, you'll find it.
And I, I actually do freediscovery calls to kind of war.
Uh, work through like your top saboteurand understand the real impacts these
(18:36):
saboteurs can have on our performance,our relationships, our own wellness.
Yeah.
Like when we start to carrythis stress in our bodies.
And I know as someone who has had likechronic stress in my shoulders, right?
Like that's where I carry my stress.
Sure.
So the, the key is how can we catchthat voice and make an intentional shift
(18:58):
Yeah.
In our brain.
Yeah.
And.
Then create that space to havethe new thoughts, feelings,
and options and results.
So well said, Jen.
EmLed (19:09):
I'm curious to know, because from my understanding of psychology,
um, validation, like belongingis actually a core human need.
But what I find in a lot of whatyou're saying and other things
I've studied is there's a, a linewith it where it's like you can't.
Place your value, your worth, youridentity in external validation, but
(19:33):
you also need it to be a healthy human.
So in your opinion, what's the line?
What does that look like?
Jennifer Brown (19:39):
I think it depends for each person.
Okay.
I, as someone, you know, I. Idon't fit your target client or
audience age demographics here.
Obviously it is something I havestruggled with my entire life.
Yeah.
It is getting to that root of self-love.
Knowing your self-worth.
Yeah.
Creating boundaries to protect that.
(20:01):
Mm. And as we grow.
The people who've been in our tribemay not like the new person we become.
Mm.
So sometimes we have to step back and evaluate.
Who's around me now?
Yeah.
Do I have the right people around me?
Yeah.
Or do I need to gently close some doors?
(20:22):
And what serves me, what's healthy for me?
So the opposite of that pleaseris what is right for me.
And when I'm in touch with my true self,I still have that empathetic heart.
Yeah.
So still serving people around me, but in a way that is not.
Seeking something in return.
Sure,
EmLed (20:42):
yeah.
What can you give me?
Jennifer Brown (20:43):
Yeah,
EmLed (20:44):
everything you're saying about boundaries and protecting your
energy, like I was very much in thatself-help world for a long time.
And now coming back to my faith thelast few months, I'm finding it hard
to integrate the two because like theChristian philosophy and Having a heart
posture of humility and putting otherpeople above yourself, sometimes that
(21:06):
feels contradictory to have boundariesprotect your peace, and I think okay, How
do I operate from a place where I'm not?
Loving others, so I get love in return.
How do I actually tap into selflesslove in the way that Jesus loved others?
Yeah.
Have you struggled with that at all?
Absolutely.
Have you?
Jennifer Brown (21:26):
Absolutely.
I had another great boss in theState Department who coached me at
one point and reminded me I haveto put my own oxygen mask on first.
Hmm.
If I am not operating from a full bucket,I really don't have the love to give.
Hmm.
it is creating that space for me toreflect, discern, be intentional about
(21:51):
where I am giving and sometimes Right.
That's easier said than done.
Sure.
We may have things on our plate whereeverything needs to be done and, and
we've said yes to too many things,but we need to get real with ourselves
and know when do I need to say no?
Yeah.
Saying no is a way of saying yes to something else.
(22:11):
Mm. So not everythingis the right fit for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so that discernment isreally, really important.
I, at one point, felt thatI needed to volunteer a lot.
I. I just wanted to be immersedin the community and it, because I
think sometimes when we're hurting,right, giving is that way to fill us.
(22:33):
For sure.
And at the same time, when you overextend,you then are burned out and have the
potential to become re resent resentful.
Yep.
Yep.
Which defeats the whole intent.
Yep.
Yep.
So when I think about what Idescribed earlier in that model,
I know the result that I want.
Yeah.
And the feeling I want to have is not resentment.
Yeah.
(22:53):
So when I reverse engineer that result to the action,
to the feeling, then I need to reallybe in tune with that thought and
feeling that I need to to create.
So it comes
EmLed (23:04):
back to awareness and checking
Jennifer Brown (23:05):
in with yourself.
Totally.
Awareness.
EmLed (23:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is so mucheasier said than Bengen.
I find it so difficult, especially,and I know you can relate to this now,
starting your own business, but theto-do list piles up so quick and you
can just fly by the seat of your pants.
Like I'll get to 2:00 PM and I'mlike, I haven't even eaten today.
Right?
And I feel like crap.
I'm so locked in with what I'm doing andI'm like, how did I get to this point?
(23:29):
Yeah, but it's exactly what you're saying.
I don't stop to check in with myselfand actually take an audit of where
is my head, where is my heart?
Have I talked to God today?
You know?
Right.
I just go, go, go, go, go.
And don't
Jennifer Brown (23:39):
stop.
I am so in that, and it's so funnybecause I know better, right?
Yeah.
But there's like an excitementand there's that to-do list.
Yes.
And.
And it's a habit that I'vehad for the last 23 years.
Hard to break.
So it is really hard to break.
Yeah.
At the same time, right?
When we even take a minute anddo breathing or do some exercise
(24:04):
to get out of our heads a minute.
Yeah.
And then have a minute where wethink about, okay, where am I?
What's the Pareto principle?
Where's the 20% wereally need to focus on?
Mm. And the 80%, the good enough iskind of, okay, so how are we setting
our to-do list in the morning?
How are we being intentionalwith the actions to actually
(24:26):
move our purpose forward?
Sure.
I am working with a business coach,and I will tell you she has this model.
It's the golden hour.
I don't spend an hour, honestly,but even a good 30 minutes of being
intentional to lay out my day.
Okay.
And then thinking, where do I need to be in person?
How am I giving myself time around?
(24:47):
That space and not go, go, go.
Yeah.
So that I show up fully.
I think you've talked about it before.
Being present in the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is so important.
So important.
And if we schedule ourselves back to back,we're not, we're, we're rushing through
the to-do list instead of the heart.
EmLed (25:03):
Absolutely.
And I find when I have crammedmy schedule back to back, it's
because I'm avoiding something.
Yes.
Yeah.
That is so
Jennifer Brown (25:10):
true.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
EmLed (25:12):
So yeah, let's get into it.
Last week.
Let's unpack that.
Let's unpack
Jennifer Brown (25:16):
it for sure.
So last week, one of thesaboteur voices is restless.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I was really struggling withthis last week because I felt the
transition from my career Sure.
Uh, from the Department of Stateinto the coaching and so much on
the coaching plate that I need todo, and I'm feeling overwhelmed.
Yes.
And so as someone who likes topride herself on being a good
(25:39):
multitasker, I'm like, oh, let medo a little this, a little of that.
Because fear of not knowingwhat I was really doing Yep.
On my business was showing up Uhhuh.
So I wanted to avoid that fear and letme skirt over here where I think I know
a little bit more about what I'm doing.
EmLed (25:57):
Yep.
That is so relatable.
Jennifer Brown (25:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
EmLed (26:00):
I think that comes back to our need for control.
Jennifer Brown (26:03):
Yes.
EmLed (26:03):
And I am a classic doer, Jen.
Me too.
Classic doer.
Yeah.
If I am sitting around doingnothing, that is terrifying to me.
Versus even if I was doing somethingwhere I obviously don't know what I'm
doing, but at least I attempted itand I feel like I'm doing something.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Jennifer Brown (26:22):
Yes.
so when I did the first part ofmy coaching certification, I went
through the Cove Training Instituteand their model is really twofold.
Being and doing.
Mm. So for me being is also a form ofdoing, because I have to work at that.
I have to create thatspace where I sit and be.
(26:42):
Yeah.
I sometimes like to avoidmy feelings a little bit.
Same.
Same.
And when I do, I feel successful.
And who wants to sit in being sador frustrated or resentful, right?
Or whatever, angry.
And yet when we don'tprocess the feelings.
The output is actuallynot our authentic self.
EmLed (27:04):
I believe that.
And it eventually will come up.
It will, but it will comeout in a very ugly way.
It totally speaking from experience.
Jennifer Brown (27:11):
Oh, it will.
When we repress the feelings, right?
Yeah.
Then we have these like outburstsor we lose relationships, when
we're not in tune with God, right?
And so as hard as it is like taking, andI might like get a little teary eyed.
I'm in the middle ofthis myself right now.
So like taking that time andsitting with all the fields.
(27:33):
Mm
EmLed (27:34):
mm. I'm right there with you.
Yeah.
You're not alone in that at all.
Yeah.
Because transitioning into being abusiness owner and the fear of failure,
the fear of even success, becausesometimes even succeeding means it
requires more of us and we have tostep up and you have to dedicate
more energy and get more focused,and you can't coast like these are
(27:55):
very real fears, but you're right.
It can feel overwhelming.
And so it's almost easier to like put thatemotion in a box and not think about it.
Yeah.
Jennifer Brown (28:05):
Yeah.
It, it really is.
And when you mention fear of success forsomeone who's a little restless, right?
There's that like, okay, now whatI, I hit this milestone now what?
Let me just kick Moving on.
Moving on.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's not beingpresent in the moment.
That's not celebrating,
no.
The milestone we've reached.
Yeah.
And slowing down to live in that just a little bit.
EmLed (28:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What does it look like to celebratethose little moments as they
Jennifer Brown (28:32):
come?
So it depends for each person.
I am a person who loves nature, so forme, when I, I live in Carolina Beach and
when I get to go down to the beach and thesun's out and I can just look out, I feel.
God right there with meand it just fills my soul.
Mm. So that's a quiet celebration for me.
(28:53):
Yeah.
On the flip side, sometimes after acoaching call with a client where there's
been like this breakthrough, and youand I get to see that aha shift on their
face, I admit I will like get up and kindof jump up and down because I'm so like.
I excited.
Excited.
I love that.
Excited for my client.
Yeah.
With clients when they're in that moment.
I love that.
And so it, it depends, right?
(29:15):
Uh, it could be playing music loudly.
Yeah.
You know, so whatever it might be,giving yourself a hug if you need
that little extra celebration.
That's cute.
EmLed (29:23):
I love that because I think, I know I don't stop to celebrate my wins.
I have a very self-criticalin your voice that.
It is constantly reminding methat I could be doing more or
I could be doing it better.
Um, I now, in my business,I have about three clients.
And that's three more thanI started with, right?
But in my head I'm like, you'renot where you need to be.
(29:46):
So that doesn't feel good enough.
So something that I did last weekwhen I actually won more business
from an existing client, I satwith that and I just talked to God
and I was like, God, thank you.
And like even taking that slow moment toacknowledge that and also being grateful
for what I already had to, not even thenew business, but the existing business.
(30:08):
I find that.
Gratitude is, is incrediblygrounding and humbling.
And I also have to remindmyself that everything that
I have is not actually mine.
And it's a gift.
Jennifer Brown (30:19):
Right.
That's right.
And I
EmLed (30:20):
forget that constantly.
Jennifer Brown (30:21):
I, I love that because leaning into gratitude, um,
and Brene Brown just comes to mind.
I love Brene Brown.
I know, right?
I love her.
I love her.
And that, you know, we areperfectly imperfect for a reason.
Mm. And when we can tap intogratitude, wow, we have so much.
It's that abundance mindset that it'sthree more clients than you had, and they
(30:46):
are real people where you can add value.
Exactly.
And I come from diplomacy.
So from a diplomatic background,I translate this into my faith.
I want to be God's ambassador.
EmLed (30:58):
Ooh, I
Jennifer Brown (30:58):
love that.
I want to shine the light.
With whomever I am working.
Mm. So one person.
10 people, a hundred people,I want to be fully present.
Yep.
To give them everything I can.
EmLed (31:14):
Mm. That's so good.
And also too, it's not a numbers game.
It's not, and it's, I mean, it's hardnot to get caught up in the numbers.
Yeah.
When that is how our world is right now.
Everything has a numerical value.
Yeah.
And I talk on my podcast all the time.
Social media makes it so difficult.
Yes.
Not to do that.
Yes.
Um.
Even with my podcast, you know,like I have to get real with
(31:36):
myself sometimes when I sit andI'm like, you are not Mel Robbins.
Oh, you, you just started,you know, this is the crazy
Jennifer Brown (31:43):
thing.
I had the thought on theway over here you are.
Oh, stop.
You are, you are the Mel Robbins.
For your audience.
Mm. And I feel that.
Well, thank you.
And so I'm going to challenge you.
Lean into your future self.
who are you as that?
Mel Robbins.
So from that place, then give yourselfa pat on the back because your future
(32:08):
self is telling you, you've got this.
You're
EmLed (32:09):
already there.
Stop.
Seriously.
Thank you.
You're right.
I, um, I think that.
We disqualify ourselves reallyquickly when we see someone
else being where we want to be.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But no, you're right.
And it's so funny because I give thatsame advice to other people, right?
I just can't take
Jennifer Brown (32:27):
it.
I'm in the same place.
I am in the same place.
Then I have to always remind myself, thisis not a competition, and I truly am so
delighted and thrilled and happy for mycolleagues when I see them succeeding.
Mm. Okay.
So that initial thing of, um, it's not me,well that's not a place I want to be sure,
because the right things are coming tome at the right time, and I believe that.
(32:50):
Yeah.
And.
What happens when I feel happy forother people is like, I don't know.
The karma starts to work.
Mm. Right.
It's not that I'm being happy ina fake way, but it, I think that's
just how the universe works.
Sure.
And so I am much happier for them.
And I get to learn fromthem and see what worked.
(33:11):
And you know what?
We're stronger in numbers.
Mm. So when we have that community,we help to lift each other up.
Right.
EmLed (33:17):
No, that's so good.
And I think there's a lot ofphilosophy that talks about
like our interconnectednessas well and our oneness.
And you're so right.
Like when we stop focusing so much onour individual selves and how we relate.
To the rest of humanity, but rathersee ourselves as all interwoven and
all helping each other, all workingtowards the one common goal of, of love.
(33:38):
Yes.
I think that that opens our heartsand also the doors for success for us.
Right.
Jennifer Brown (33:44):
They really do start to open.
Yeah,
they do.
When we slow down and we startto look at what's around us.
Yeah.
I think the possibilities are justendless and I'm always reminded
that control thing, I may have a mapthat I think I'm supposed to be on.
Yeah.
No way.
Like when I slow down and I lookaround, it's so much better than I
(34:06):
could ever have imagined for myself.
EmLed (34:08):
Mm mm That's so good.
That just shows God workingin your life, you know?
Totally.
I love that.
I think when we allow God tosurprise and delight us, I.
And not put expectation Yes.
On the outcome.
Yes.
That is where we find the most peace.
I actually really wannaask you about expectation.
Yeah.
I've been having so many conversationswith people in my life recently
(34:29):
realizing how much my expectationon them and my expectation of myself
sets me up for disappointment.
Yeah.
What has been your experience withboth yourself and your clients and.
Noticing how expectationnegatively impacts Lives.
Jennifer Brown (34:47):
Yeah.
Well I think you nailed it.
Expectation is disappointment.
Yeah.
And it's really hard.
Um, so.
It's easier for me to talkabout my clients than myself.
Got you.
Uh, so for my clients, I don'thave expectations for them.
Mm. I'm holding their agenda.
Whatever is important for them.
And so if they say they want to, youknow, change their career or, you know,
(35:14):
move to another state or do somethingdifferent in their leadership role.
Okay.
Then my job is to guide them, empowerthem as we talk through this, and really
start to peel back the layers about why
Yeah,
the why, what's important here,
right.
And what is it that you really want?
I don't have judgmenton whatever they say.
(35:35):
This is their story.
Sure.
You know?
Yeah.
So from that place, the key is reallygetting them to be creative and
seeing a much larger possibility.
eliminating that self-judgment space Yeah.
And uh, expectation, right?
Yeah.
To me, expectation equals the word should.
(35:58):
Mm. Yeah.
Yep.
Which is a form of judging ourselves.
Yeah.
And when I flip the script and talk about myself personally,
that word shows up a lot for me.
I got you.
And so it's work that I do all thetime Catch it, be aware of it and say,
no, actually I don't have to do that.
Right.
I don't have to feel this.
(36:19):
Right.
This isn't mine to carry.
Right.
So the work internally is harder, Ithink, than holding space for my clients.
Yeah.
Uh, and so I believe we'realways a work in progress.
I won't have all the answerson this side of life.
Amen.
And so it is, how do Icontinue to grow in that space?
(36:40):
Expectation can really hurtus in our relationships.
Yeah, absolutely.
EmLed (36:45):
A lot of what I keep hearing you say is just being more loving
and being softer on ourselves.
Jennifer Brown (36:50):
Yes.
EmLed (36:51):
Um, I've heard you say celebrate the small wins.
Yeah.
I've heard you say catchthe negative self talk.
Yeah.
Maybe give yourself a hug.
Yeah.
Um, sit and just give yourself spaceto feel, what are some other ways
that we can be softer with ourselves?
Jennifer Brown (37:07):
I love that.
Oh, that's a great question.
Um, I want to mention one thingas you were summing that up.
Grace is big for me.
It's in my company name.
Yeah.
Um, I do believe that as a Christian, I dobelieve I have received grace, even when
it's hard for me to give myself grace.
Mm. So being softer means recognizing whenwe can't do it alone and finding faith.
(37:35):
Our people around us, our, our tribe,our community who can help lift us.
A coach, right.
Who can be there to support.
Yeah, because being softer doesn'tmean I. Being stronger by yourself.
EmLed (37:49):
Mm. I'm so glad you said that.
'cause that's where my mind goes to.
Yeah.
How can I be more unbreakable alone?
Right.
Jennifer Brown (37:56):
Yeah.
Right.
I, I, you know, I always felt I neededto be the strong, independent woman.
Same.
I'm the oldest of five kids.
I'm the only girl.
Mm. I
was like, I'm doing this.
Yeah.
You know, and it has servedme to a certain extent and
not always in the best way.
Mm.
So, recognizing when to ask for help.
And then actually allow it.
(38:16):
Yeah, I'm still working
EmLed (38:18):
on that.
Yeah.
Same.
Same.
You are me, Jen.
You are me.
Jennifer Brown (38:24):
So for everyone listening, right?
Like this is an ongoingevolution that we Yeah.
That we work through.
But the thing is I love thatyou are wrestling with life
and these questions right now.
Yeah.
Because honestly, I wasn't fullywrestling with these questions.
At a younger age, probably around40, you know when the term midlife
(38:44):
crisis normally starts to hit.
Sure.
And I wish I had been thinkingabout some of these earlier in life,
some of these bigger questions.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Yeah.
EmLed (38:52):
Yeah.
I notice in ourgeneration, I think with I.
The introduction of socialmedia and the internet.
We have access to so much information.
And I think because of that, alot of us have grown up quicker.
Yeah.
And we've also been confronted withour inadequacy and our struggle and
we've had the, the knowledge andthe resources to start working on
(39:13):
it earlier than your generation did.
Yeah.
And I noticed for a lot of people who listen to my podcast, friends of Mine,
just people kind of in a similar season.
A lot of them are reallygrappling with these questions.
Yeah.
Wondering what is thepoint of all of this?
How do I live a life that I'm proud of?
How do, why do I feel like this?
I don't wanna feel like this.
And I think really what it comes downto is making a conscious decision.
(39:38):
I. To To wrestle.
Yes.
To be in the match.
To not just let life happen to you.
You, that's right.
And to have some skin in the game.
Jennifer Brown (39:46):
Have the skin in the game.
Go through the mud.
One of my key phrases is, howam I putting pain to purpose?
Mm. So it doesn't mean Ihave to go save the world.
How am I living?
My purpose in a way that can bring me joy.
Yeah.
And joy does not need to be something big.
Right.
We think about mindfulness as like,oh, let me go meditate and do yoga, and
(40:07):
those are wonderful, don't get me wrong.
Sure, sure.
And we can be in a microsecondin a different place where
we can choose joy, right.
Where we are.
Yeah.
And
so the, I think the goal is how do we find
that more often during the day?
EmLed (40:23):
Hmm.
I love that I could probably sit hereand pick your brain for three more hours,
but I wanted to wrap up by leaving youwith one question for everyone listening.
What is the biggest piece of adviceyou would give to someone who is
young in their career and justgetting started and figuring it out?
Like if you could go backto 20 or 30-year-old Jen.
(40:43):
Yeah.
What would you tell her?
Jennifer Brown (40:45):
Oh, that is so great.
I think there are a couplepoints I would make.
One is take the time to reflectand spend that time with
yourself to get the clarity.
Um, when we mindlessly go through themotions, we're not living intentionally.
And then before we knowit, life is grinding us up.
(41:05):
Yep.
So do the work of taking some time to be with yourself.
Yeah.
You know, another thing I would, another point, so I'll have three.
So the second one is.
Everybody talks about work life balance.
I don't believe that exists.
Mm. I do believe that we are ona pendulum and we get to choose
(41:27):
how we swing the pendulum.
Sure.
So knowing when we need to bemore work, when we need to be more
personal, faith, whatever community,wherever your pendulum needs to go.
Sure.
When I look back, I perhaps spenta little too much on the work side.
I got you.
So it goes back to thatfirst point of reflecting.
(41:50):
Yeah.
Two is taking a bit of controlof the pendulum when you can.
Right.
I mean, sometimes, you know,it has to be on work, but
taking control of the pendulum.
And the third is really connectionsthrough faith, through your tribe.
Don't go it alone.
EmLed (42:08):
Mm.
Jennifer Brown (42:09):
You don't need to do it alone because you're not alone.
EmLed (42:11):
No, you're not.
No.
No one is alone.
Jennifer Brown (42:13):
No.
EmLed (42:13):
So many people that I meet, first of all, that advice was all amazing.
So many people that I meet thoughreally feel alone in their struggles.
Yeah.
And there's this questionof what's wrong with me?
Like, I must be the onlyone going through this.
Yeah.
And to anyone in that space, like you justsaid, I echo everything you just said.
You are not alone.
(42:34):
No.
And.
It's not on you to figureit all out by yourself.
And there's for one so many resourcesthese days that can help you.
There's life coaches even talkingthrough with your parents.
Maybe some, some things thatyou struggled with as a kid can
Jennifer Brown (42:48):
be really healing.
It is so true.
And, and for fullvulnerability and transparency.
At one point I had my pastor, I hada therapist, I had a life coach.
I
love that.
And I had my parents and friends.
Yeah, right.
Like I was in.
A rock bottom place.
Yeah.
And thankfully I didn'ttry to do it alone.
Mm. So there was nothing wrong with me.
(43:11):
I wasn't broken.
But from that place, Ifound my breakthrough.
Mm. So I think societycan make us feel ashamed.
And that shame, Brene Brown isnot where we're supposed to be.
EmLed (43:24):
It's not, and that's not where God wants us either.
That's what the enemy wants.
He wants us in.
And when we, when
Jennifer Brown (43:29):
we uncover that and put light on it,
that's where the real magic is.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
EmLed (43:35):
Well, Jen, thank you so much for joining me today.
You're so well spoken, you're soknowledgeable, and I would love
for you to just plug how theaudience can get in touch with you.
Jennifer Brown (43:44):
Aw, thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, what a delight to be with you.
It was fun for anyone interested.
I am at Journey of grace coaching.com.
I am here to walk with you.
If you are looking for that extrasupport, we don't have to do this alone.
I'm also on social media.
EmLed (44:00):
Yes.
I will plug your LinkedInin the show notes for you.
Thank you.
Thank
Jennifer Brown (44:03):
you.
I'm just so thrilled to be here with you.
EmLed (44:05):
Yeah.
I'm so glad that you came and youalso have a really good podcast voice,
so if you ever wanna start your ownpodcast, I would definitely listen.
Oh, that feels like a challenge.
I think you could do it.
I think you could do it.
And I think what I love about yourenergy and your voice is like.
Just the grace that you havefor both yourself and others.
It really is evident in the waythat you speak and it's something
(44:27):
that I'm challenging myself todo is just to be less critical
and judgmental and be softer.
So thank you so much for coming andsharing your knowledge and being yourself.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Brown (44:38):
It is such really an honor to be here with you.
EmLed (44:41):
Thanks, Jen.
All right.
Bye guys.
I never know how to end it.
Bye guys.
I love it.
Okay, bye.
All right everyone.
Welcome back to theWrestling With Life podcast.
I am your host, em led on the mic, andI am so excited to welcome my friend
Jennifer Brown, to the mic today.
Welcome, Jen.
Thank you
Jennifer Brown (00:37):
so much, Emily.
I'm so excited to be here.
I just really feel.
That we were put in thisplace together for a reason.
So thank you for, for having you here.
Absolutely.
And I love your podcast.
Oh,
EmLed (00:49):
thank you so much.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think the Lord divinelyorchestrated us meeting and I am
pumped for our conversation today.
When we chatted on the phone gettingconnected for this podcast, I think
we both felt really quickly that wealign in, in many ways, in in our
faith and our current season of life,
Jennifer Brown (01:07):
honestly.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And I have goosebumps now rememberingthat conversation because I brought
up my word of the year, which ledus to find that we share a church.
Yeah, go to the same church.
Exactly.
And just being called forward inour faith is such a beautiful thing.
It is,
EmLed (01:27):
it is.
And I'm so excited to share youwith my audience because you are on
a very exciting journey right now.
So Jen, you have been a foreignservice officer with the Department
of State for over 20 years.
Providing leadership coaching andalso personal and professional
development to clients.
And these are people whoare typically having like a
(01:47):
midlife crisis, is that right?
Some I, I wouldn't say crisis.
Okay.
But we
Jennifer Brown (01:51):
find ourselves in stages of transition
personally and professionally.
Mm-hmm.
And so wherever leaders are at home, atwork, how do we rise to the next level?
What do we do when we feel stuck?
Yeah.
And burned out and stressed out.
And.
Finding ourselves when we startto question who am I and what
am I supposed to be doing?
(02:11):
Oh,
EmLed (02:12):
so good.
So what led you to this line of work?
Like, I'm assuming there'ssome really cool backstory.
'cause no one just becomes alife coach overnight, you know?
No,
Jennifer Brown (02:21):
no.
And actually, so my journey started23 years, 24 years ago when I
took the foreign service examto join the Department of State.
I became a foreign service officer.
Spent about half of my career overseas.
I became a leader of some incredibleteams, and at one point I found myself
in that burned out leader state.
(02:43):
The demands were incredibly high.
We had some personnel challenges.
I felt I was not adequate.
Sure.
You know, to do the job.
Sure.
And a wonderful boss of minerecommended I get a leadership coach.
Wow.
Was that a game changer for me?
So I did my work internally.
(03:03):
I learned, uh, how to better delegate.
I learned how to betterempower my teams and cultivate
what's really important to me.
Heart-centered connections.
Mm. And when I started doing that,I really saw the ripple effect.
We went from this.
Kinda low morale, low production team toa really impressive, high functioning,
(03:26):
uh, family, really in the workplace.
And when I saw that, I knewcoaching was important to me.
And then fast forward a few yearslater, I went through some of
my own personal challenges Sure.
As we all do.
Sure.
And I got a life coach.
And if I didn't know beforethat really hammered it in.
So I knew coaching was.
(03:48):
Something I wanted to do becauseI love helping to guide people
on their journeys, right?
Wherever they find themselves.
We don't have to be alone.
And it was at that moment, uh,the Department of State, um, and.
Was encouraging some, uh, coachingopportunities and I took the leap
of faith and started on that path.
(04:08):
I became an internal leadershipcoach for the Department of State,
working with colleagues, leadingteams, and I also started my
company Journey of Grace Coaching.
Yes.
And was working with.
Clients privately.
And uh, just Friday, I officiallyretired from the Department of State
(04:29):
to take the leap of faith even further.
Wow.
Uh, in my private life and leadershipcoaching, this is Congratulations.
Thank you.
I'm so excited for you.
I am too.
It is scary, of course, because I'mpivoting Uhhuh, about half of my life
has been with the Department of State.
Right.
And so this is a big step forward.
It was one I really prayed about.
(04:51):
I asked for a sign.
I got a sign, and I knewit was the right time.
Do I have all the answers figured out?
No way.
And what I know is this is my purpose.
Mm. And so I'm super excited.
I am, I'm moving forward with my business.
I love this community here.
Me too.
It's just so amazing.
(05:11):
There's so much support and I'mjust looking forward to what
God has in store next for me.
Oh,
EmLed (05:16):
I'm excited too.
I'm excited to see where he takesyou, but I just first wanna commend
you on having the strength to step infaith because I don't know about you.
I've gotten many signs beforeand still haven't stepped.
I think the fact that youtook, a first step at one sign
Jennifer Brown (05:33):
Well, I will say I don't always.
Okay.
I was, this was a really hard one, soback in January, actually, it's funny
you say that there was something Iwas praying about and maybe somewhat
in line with this career change.
It wasn't the exact questionI was asking before.
Okay.
I think I had a few signs come my way.
I didn't listen.
I was at the gym and I wentto lift a barbell up and I
(05:56):
hit my head on the equipment.
Oh no.
And I thought, okay, God'sreally giving me a sign now.
Like he's hammering meover the head on this.
Right.
Okay.
Maybe that's a stretch, but in, I reallythink like it all worked for a reason.
And so when we don't listen andwe don't trust our intuition
and trust our faith sometimes.
(06:17):
You know, it comes backto bite us a little bit.
Absolutely.
EmLed (06:20):
Absolutely.
So what was your, that wasn'tyour one sign, I'm assuming.
No, that was not my one sign.
What was your sign thatprompted you to make the leap?
Jennifer Brown (06:28):
Uh, so it's funny, I was chatting with one of my best friends and
she said, ask for a bird, a, a cardinal.
And I happened to be on a, uh, workrelated call, and it wasn't a bird.
But someone had in theirbackground a butterfly.
And in my company logo, I have abutterfly in the middle of a compass.
(06:51):
Oh, cool.
For transition.
For, for evolution.
Right,
right.
And I thought that's the sign I needed.
I just knew there was something in thatmoment when I saw it, it was like the
clarity, the curtain was pulled back.
EmLed (07:03):
Wow.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So that was all you neededto be like, okay, God, let's
Jennifer Brown (07:07):
go.
It.
It really was, and I think sometimeswhen we sit with ourselves, we
get the answers if we listen.
EmLed (07:17):
Yeah.
Yep.
I have heard lately.
So many different people and so manydifferent resources kind of saying the
same message, which is like all of ushave moments where we get mad at God and
we're like, God, why aren't you speaking?
Why aren't you moving?
Like God, why?
Why, why?
And we get so angry at him, butwhat are we doing to actually
prepare ourselves to hear him?
(07:37):
Yeah.
Are we quieting our souls?
Are we turning off our phones,our TVs, all the endless
noise and inputs of the world?
Like when do we stop to actuallyslow and listen for his voice?
And yeah, that really alignswith what you just said.
Jennifer Brown (07:51):
Yeah, I'm not above.
Having my phone on and not being in tune,but I know that I don't feel my best Sure.
When I'm not taking that time.
Yeah.
I do try in the morning, um, as part of myroutine to have that quiet devotion time.
Yeah.
I have a few, um, devotions that willcome in, so that's really all I'll
look at on my phone is to read thoseand sit and then just kind of close
(08:16):
my eyes and sit with my hands open.
Like, let me just hear from you.
Mm. And, and be in touch.
Mm. But when I don't do that right,it's just easy to go, go, go and think
that I'm moving in the right direction.
I. Absolutely.
But not always.
Absolutely.
EmLed (08:32):
No, for sure.
I'm curious to know, how many peoplewould you say you've worked with on an
individual coaching basis at this point?
Jennifer Brown (08:40):
Um, well, that's a good question.
In terms of numbers, uh, formy certification, I had to have
over a hundred hours of coaching.
Okay.
Um, so I'm at the, the associatecertified coaching level through the
International Coaching Federation.
Okay.
Uh, and so I'd say roughlyaround 20 different clients.
Uh, give or take, uh, to hit thatlevel and that number's still growing.
EmLed (09:02):
Okay.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
What would you say is the commonlink between these people?
Like are they all about middle aged?
Are they parents?
Like what season of life are they in?
Jennifer Brown (09:11):
They really range.
They range.
I have worked with leaders whowere very new in their career.
Okay.
Uh, looking for confidence,stepping into a new role.
Sure.
I have worked with a. Senior leaders whowere also stepping into a new leadership
role and had some questions aboutbuilding a new, as they stepped into
that new role, building that new team.
(09:32):
Sure.
Uh, I have worked with folks who werelike, I don't know how to manage up and
I have this rough boss and what do I do?
Sure.
Um.
I have worked with people whowere really questioning, is
this the right career for me?
And, uh, my kids are aboutto graduate high school.
What do I do now?
Yeah.
And where am I in my spiritual journey,I should say, on the spiritual side.
(09:56):
I let clients bring thatforward as they want to.
I. As they feel comfortable.
Sure, I'm solid in my faith, uh, butI leave that door open for people.
I love that as they come forward.
EmLed (10:06):
Yeah, I love that.
So what would you say of all thedifferent clients that you've worked
with, is there a similar link orreoccurring theme that you see come up?
Like what's the basic human recurringtheme you see in these sessions?
Jennifer Brown (10:22):
People want to move forward in a way to grow.
They want Definitely.
Yeah.
They're, they're seeking that inner peace.
Sure.
I. And it doesn't mean that they haveto change any circumstances around them.
They are looking for the growth inside.
Yeah.
How do I manage where I am?
How do I find joy?
(10:42):
Mm-hmm.
Where I am?
Mm. Sometimes that might mean a careerchange or a life change, but it doesn't.
Have to, because honestly, ifwe just move from job to job or
home to home or relationship torelationship, we don't get to the root.
EmLed (10:58):
Mm mm
Jennifer Brown (10:59):
And the root is internal.
EmLed (11:00):
Mm. I love that you said that.
I think many of us want to make anexternal change in our reality because
that's the type of change that youcan see and feel and others can see.
But.
I agree with you, at least in my ownexperience, a lot of the change that I
wanted to see couldn't happen unless Ireally dug deep and did the inner work
(11:21):
and sat with God and worked through it.
Jennifer Brown (11:24):
Yes, and I love that.
And I mentioned to you prior, um,that your season two episode five
podcasts truly resonated with mebecause it is that perspective.
When I first got into coaching.
Probably over a decade ago, I waslistening to the Life Coaching School with
Brooke Castillo, and her model was always,you have a neutral circumstance, and
(11:48):
from that circumstance, that situation,you then have a thought, and the thought
creates the feelings that create theactions that give us the results.
And I love that becauseit's so simple and so true.
Mm. And so when I think about perspective,I like to actually look at what is the
result that I really want from where I am.
(12:10):
Sure.
Here's my circumstance andwhat's the result that I want.
So if I want that result, then whatactions do I need to really take?
And what feelings do I have to haveto motivate me to do those actions?
Right?
And then what thoughts do I need to have?
To have those feelings.
So I get to choose actually when I slowdown and I'm in tune with God and myself.
(12:34):
Mm. And my surroundings.
I get to choose whatthoughts I want to have.
Mm. Wherever I am.
EmLed (12:39):
Okay.
So I've read many books thatalign with what you're saying.
Um, do you know Jenny Allen?
Do you know that name?
Yeah.
Yeah.
She has a great book called Get Out of Your Head.
Yeah.
That talks exactly aboutwhat you're explaining.
I guess for me, I really struggleto take my thoughts captive, and
that's something that the Lordcommands us to do in the Bible.
(12:59):
Take every thought captive.
What advice do you have whenmaybe you're in a thought spiral?
Mm-hmm.
Or you have a recurring thought that you.
Probably is really a limiting belief thatkeeps coming up and is deeply rooted.
What does that look like?
Could you give like tangible steps
Jennifer Brown (13:16):
or, yes.
Woo.
I, I will start to geek out here.
Yes, please.
Geek out.
I love the mindset work.
Me too.
And I, I love mindfulness
(14:24):
and I'm actually in acertification program right now
called Positive Intelligence.
EmLed (14:30):
Okay.
Jennifer Brown (14:30):
And Zad Shain created this.
Uh, framework because we all havethese, what he calls saboteur voices,
these limiting beliefs, Uhhuh.
And so these saboteurs will showup to tell us we're, you know, we
didn't do well here, so it will beatus up, or we need to please others,
or we need to be perfectionists, orwe need to be hypervigilant in our
(14:55):
surroundings, et cetera, et cetera.
And these voices, these thoughts.
Actually came to be about the timewhen we were five because they took
our inherent strengths of really beingwonderful people, and they started abusing
these strengths that exist in all of us.
(15:16):
And so these thoughts became our go-toin our brain, our operating system.
And so when we start, the stepone is catch that thought.
Catch it, catch it.
Call it out.
Call it out.
And say.
That thought is there.
It's not.
I did something, it'sthe thought is there.
(15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And then from there I encourage,or I try, do a mindfulness.
What, in this program he callsmental fitness a, a PQ rep.
And it's really.
Breathing.
Um, one of the things I love todo is actually take two fingertips
together, like close my eyes and rubtwo fingertips so intently, like I
(15:59):
really feel the ridges in my fingers.
Okay.
And then like, just rub my fingertips downmy palm and take a few minutes because
that tactile sense gets me outta my head.
Okay.
So it's bringing youto the present moment?
It's bringing me to the present moment.
Yeah.
And from there.
I now get to question whatthought is that thought true?
(16:25):
What's really true?
How do I want to bring empathyor curiosity into play?
I. As I think about this thoughtand what I'm going to choose to do.
EmLed (16:36):
Yes.
So curiosity rather
Jennifer Brown (16:38):
than judgment.
Rather than judgment.
Judgment is a saboteur voice for sure.
Okay.
It's the number onesaboteur that we all have.
The judge.
And where does that come from?
The judgment.
Basically from when we werechildren, we developed these
survival skills, if you will.
Yes.
These voices came to be becausewe had strengths, and they started
(16:59):
using these strengths as a way togive us survival, whether it was
physical, emotional, whatever.
Even if we had the bestof childhoods, right?
If we learned at a young age thatour parents rewarded good grades or
involvement in softball or whatever.
Activity.
Right.
All of a sudden we've learned, oh,I get praise when, so if I continue
(17:24):
to do this, people will love me.
Mm. Yep.
And on the flip side, right, if wewere lacking that, then we're I and
I have this saboteur voice, so Iknow the please are all too well.
Oh yeah, it is.
If I do this, then they willlike me, they will accept me.
one of the others is the stickler.
If I'm a perfectionist fordetails, everything's perfect.
(17:47):
Mm-hmm.
I will get promoted.
I will do well.
EmLed (17:51):
Yeah.
Jen, you're describing me.
You're describing me.
I know it so well.
No, everything you're saying,like, I'm kind of geeking out
because I love this stuff too.
I, I love psychology and everythingyou're saying about our childhood
experiences forming us, lines up with.
What I've been studying and learningover the years, but it's different.
Hearing a real life coach sittingnext to me saying the same stuff,
(18:13):
like it's hitting different.
It's pretty cool.
Jennifer Brown (18:15):
It is really cool.
And I get to, for anyone who'sinterested, you could do actually
a free saboteur assessment ifyou go to Positive Intelligence.
I think it's slash uh, saboteur.
Okay.
Um, but if you Google it, you'll find it.
And I, I actually do freediscovery calls to kind of war.
Uh, work through like your top saboteurand understand the real impacts these
(18:36):
saboteurs can have on our performance,our relationships, our own wellness.
Yeah.
Like when we start to carrythis stress in our bodies.
And I know as someone who has had likechronic stress in my shoulders, right?
Like that's where I carry my stress.
Sure.
So the, the key is how can we catchthat voice and make an intentional shift
(18:58):
Yeah.
In our brain.
Yeah.
And.
Then create that space to havethe new thoughts, feelings,
and options and results.
So well said, Jen.
EmLed (19:09):
I'm curious to know, because from my understanding of psychology,
um, validation, like belongingis actually a core human need.
But what I find in a lot of whatyou're saying and other things
I've studied is there's a, a linewith it where it's like you can't.
Place your value, your worth, youridentity in external validation, but
(19:33):
you also need it to be a healthy human.
So in your opinion, what's the line?
What does that look like?
Jennifer Brown (19:39):
I think it depends for each person.
Okay.
I, as someone, you know, I. Idon't fit your target client or
audience age demographics here.
Obviously it is something I havestruggled with my entire life.
Yeah.
It is getting to that root of self-love.
Knowing your self-worth.
Yeah.
Creating boundaries to protect that.
(20:01):
Mm. And as we grow.
The people who've been in our tribemay not like the new person we become.
Mm.
So sometimes we have to step back and evaluate.
Who's around me now?
Yeah.
Do I have the right people around me?
Yeah.
Or do I need to gently close some doors?
(20:22):
And what serves me, what's healthy for me?
So the opposite of that pleaseris what is right for me.
And when I'm in touch with my true self,I still have that empathetic heart.
Yeah.
So still serving people around me, but in a way that is not.
Seeking something in return.
Sure,
EmLed (20:42):
yeah.
What can you give me?
Jennifer Brown (20:43):
Yeah,
EmLed (20:44):
everything you're saying about boundaries and protecting your
energy, like I was very much in thatself-help world for a long time.
And now coming back to my faith thelast few months, I'm finding it hard
to integrate the two because like theChristian philosophy and Having a heart
posture of humility and putting otherpeople above yourself, sometimes that
(21:06):
feels contradictory to have boundariesprotect your peace, and I think okay, How
do I operate from a place where I'm not?
Loving others, so I get love in return.
How do I actually tap into selflesslove in the way that Jesus loved others?
Yeah.
Have you struggled with that at all?
Absolutely.
Have you?
Jennifer Brown (21:26):
Absolutely.
I had another great boss in theState Department who coached me at
one point and reminded me I haveto put my own oxygen mask on first.
Hmm.
If I am not operating from a full bucket,I really don't have the love to give.
Hmm.
it is creating that space for me toreflect, discern, be intentional about
(21:51):
where I am giving and sometimes Right.
That's easier said than done.
Sure.
We may have things on our plate whereeverything needs to be done and, and
we've said yes to too many things,but we need to get real with ourselves
and know when do I need to say no?
Yeah.
Saying no is a way of saying yes to something else.
(22:11):
Mm. So not everythingis the right fit for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so that discernment isreally, really important.
I, at one point, felt thatI needed to volunteer a lot.
I. I just wanted to be immersedin the community and it, because I
think sometimes when we're hurting,right, giving is that way to fill us.
(22:33):
For sure.
And at the same time, when you overextend,you then are burned out and have the
potential to become re resent resentful.
Yep.
Yep.
Which defeats the whole intent.
Yep.
Yep.
So when I think about what Idescribed earlier in that model,
I know the result that I want.
Yeah.
And the feeling I want to have is not resentment.
Yeah.
(22:53):
So when I reverse engineer that result to the action,
to the feeling, then I need to reallybe in tune with that thought and
feeling that I need to to create.
So it comes
EmLed (23:04):
back to awareness and checking
Jennifer Brown (23:05):
in with yourself.
Totally.
Awareness.
EmLed (23:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is so mucheasier said than Bengen.
I find it so difficult, especially,and I know you can relate to this now,
starting your own business, but theto-do list piles up so quick and you
can just fly by the seat of your pants.
Like I'll get to 2:00 PM and I'mlike, I haven't even eaten today.
Right?
And I feel like crap.
I'm so locked in with what I'm doing andI'm like, how did I get to this point?
(23:29):
Yeah, but it's exactly what you're saying.
I don't stop to check in with myselfand actually take an audit of where
is my head, where is my heart?
Have I talked to God today?
You know?
Right.
I just go, go, go, go, go.
And don't
Jennifer Brown (23:39):
stop.
I am so in that, and it's so funnybecause I know better, right?
Yeah.
But there's like an excitementand there's that to-do list.
Yes.
And.
And it's a habit that I'vehad for the last 23 years.
Hard to break.
So it is really hard to break.
Yeah.
At the same time, right?
When we even take a minute anddo breathing or do some exercise
(24:04):
to get out of our heads a minute.
Yeah.
And then have a minute where wethink about, okay, where am I?
What's the Pareto principle?
Where's the 20% wereally need to focus on?
Mm. And the 80%, the good enough iskind of, okay, so how are we setting
our to-do list in the morning?
How are we being intentionalwith the actions to actually
(24:26):
move our purpose forward?
Sure.
I am working with a business coach,and I will tell you she has this model.
It's the golden hour.
I don't spend an hour, honestly,but even a good 30 minutes of being
intentional to lay out my day.
Okay.
And then thinking, where do I need to be in person?
How am I giving myself time around?
(24:47):
That space and not go, go, go.
Yeah.
So that I show up fully.
I think you've talked about it before.
Being present in the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is so important.
So important.
And if we schedule ourselves back to back,we're not, we're, we're rushing through
the to-do list instead of the heart.
EmLed (25:03):
Absolutely.
And I find when I have crammedmy schedule back to back, it's
because I'm avoiding something.
Yes.
Yeah.
That is so
Jennifer Brown (25:10):
true.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
EmLed (25:12):
So yeah, let's get into it.
Last week.
Let's unpack that.
Let's unpack
Jennifer Brown (25:16):
it for sure.
So last week, one of thesaboteur voices is restless.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
I was really struggling withthis last week because I felt the
transition from my career Sure.
Uh, from the Department of Stateinto the coaching and so much on
the coaching plate that I need todo, and I'm feeling overwhelmed.
Yes.
And so as someone who likes topride herself on being a good
(25:39):
multitasker, I'm like, oh, let medo a little this, a little of that.
Because fear of not knowingwhat I was really doing Yep.
On my business was showing up Uhhuh.
So I wanted to avoid that fear and letme skirt over here where I think I know
a little bit more about what I'm doing.
EmLed (25:57):
Yep.
That is so relatable.
Jennifer Brown (25:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
EmLed (26:00):
I think that comes back to our need for control.
Jennifer Brown (26:03):
Yes.
EmLed (26:03):
And I am a classic doer, Jen.
Me too.
Classic doer.
Yeah.
If I am sitting around doingnothing, that is terrifying to me.
Versus even if I was doing somethingwhere I obviously don't know what I'm
doing, but at least I attempted itand I feel like I'm doing something.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Jennifer Brown (26:22):
Yes.
so when I did the first part ofmy coaching certification, I went
through the Cove Training Instituteand their model is really twofold.
Being and doing.
Mm. So for me being is also a form ofdoing, because I have to work at that.
I have to create thatspace where I sit and be.
(26:42):
Yeah.
I sometimes like to avoidmy feelings a little bit.
Same.
Same.
And when I do, I feel successful.
And who wants to sit in being sador frustrated or resentful, right?
Or whatever, angry.
And yet when we don'tprocess the feelings.
The output is actuallynot our authentic self.
EmLed (27:04):
I believe that.
And it eventually will come up.
It will, but it will comeout in a very ugly way.
It totally speaking from experience.
Jennifer Brown (27:11):
Oh, it will.
When we repress the feelings, right?
Yeah.
Then we have these like outburstsor we lose relationships, when
we're not in tune with God, right?
And so as hard as it is like taking, andI might like get a little teary eyed.
I'm in the middle ofthis myself right now.
So like taking that time andsitting with all the fields.
(27:33):
Mm
EmLed (27:34):
mm. I'm right there with you.
Yeah.
You're not alone in that at all.
Yeah.
Because transitioning into being abusiness owner and the fear of failure,
the fear of even success, becausesometimes even succeeding means it
requires more of us and we have tostep up and you have to dedicate
more energy and get more focused,and you can't coast like these are
(27:55):
very real fears, but you're right.
It can feel overwhelming.
And so it's almost easier to like put thatemotion in a box and not think about it.
Yeah.
Jennifer Brown (28:05):
Yeah.
It, it really is.
And when you mention fear of success forsomeone who's a little restless, right?
There's that like, okay, now whatI, I hit this milestone now what?
Let me just kick Moving on.
Moving on.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's not beingpresent in the moment.
That's not celebrating,
no.
The milestone we've reached.
Yeah.
And slowing down to live in that just a little bit.
EmLed (28:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What does it look like to celebratethose little moments as they
Jennifer Brown (28:32):
come?
So it depends for each person.
I am a person who loves nature, so forme, when I, I live in Carolina Beach and
when I get to go down to the beach and thesun's out and I can just look out, I feel.
God right there with meand it just fills my soul.
Mm. So that's a quiet celebration for me.
(28:53):
Yeah.
On the flip side, sometimes after acoaching call with a client where there's
been like this breakthrough, and youand I get to see that aha shift on their
face, I admit I will like get up and kindof jump up and down because I'm so like.
I excited.
Excited.
I love that.
Excited for my client.
Yeah.
With clients when they're in that moment.
I love that.
And so it, it depends, right?
(29:15):
Uh, it could be playing music loudly.
Yeah.
You know, so whatever it might be,giving yourself a hug if you need
that little extra celebration.
That's cute.
EmLed (29:23):
I love that because I think, I know I don't stop to celebrate my wins.
I have a very self-criticalin your voice that.
It is constantly reminding methat I could be doing more or
I could be doing it better.
Um, I now, in my business,I have about three clients.
And that's three more thanI started with, right?
But in my head I'm like, you'renot where you need to be.
(29:46):
So that doesn't feel good enough.
So something that I did last weekwhen I actually won more business
from an existing client, I satwith that and I just talked to God
and I was like, God, thank you.
And like even taking that slow moment toacknowledge that and also being grateful
for what I already had to, not even thenew business, but the existing business.
(30:08):
I find that.
Gratitude is, is incrediblygrounding and humbling.
And I also have to remindmyself that everything that
I have is not actually mine.
And it's a gift.
Jennifer Brown (30:19):
Right.
That's right.
And I
EmLed (30:20):
forget that constantly.
Jennifer Brown (30:21):
I, I love that because leaning into gratitude, um,
and Brene Brown just comes to mind.
I love Brene Brown.
I know, right?
I love her.
I love her.
And that, you know, we areperfectly imperfect for a reason.
Mm. And when we can tap intogratitude, wow, we have so much.
It's that abundance mindset that it'sthree more clients than you had, and they
(30:46):
are real people where you can add value.
Exactly.
And I come from diplomacy.
So from a diplomatic background,I translate this into my faith.
I want to be God's ambassador.
EmLed (30:58):
Ooh, I
Jennifer Brown (30:58):
love that.
I want to shine the light.
With whomever I am working.
Mm. So one person.
10 people, a hundred people,I want to be fully present.
Yep.
To give them everything I can.
EmLed (31:14):
Mm. That's so good.
And also too, it's not a numbers game.
It's not, and it's, I mean, it's hardnot to get caught up in the numbers.
Yeah.
When that is how our world is right now.
Everything has a numerical value.
Yeah.
And I talk on my podcast all the time.
Social media makes it so difficult.
Yes.
Not to do that.
Yes.
Um.
Even with my podcast, you know,like I have to get real with
(31:36):
myself sometimes when I sit andI'm like, you are not Mel Robbins.
Oh, you, you just started,you know, this is the crazy
Jennifer Brown (31:43):
thing.
I had the thought on theway over here you are.
Oh, stop.
You are, you are the Mel Robbins.
For your audience.
Mm. And I feel that.
Well, thank you.
And so I'm going to challenge you.
Lean into your future self.
who are you as that?
Mel Robbins.
So from that place, then give yourselfa pat on the back because your future
(32:08):
self is telling you, you've got this.
You're
EmLed (32:09):
already there.
Stop.
Seriously.
Thank you.
You're right.
I, um, I think that.
We disqualify ourselves reallyquickly when we see someone
else being where we want to be.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But no, you're right.
And it's so funny because I give thatsame advice to other people, right?
I just can't take
Jennifer Brown (32:27):
it.
I'm in the same place.
I am in the same place.
Then I have to always remind myself, thisis not a competition, and I truly am so
delighted and thrilled and happy for mycolleagues when I see them succeeding.
Mm. Okay.
So that initial thing of, um, it's not me,well that's not a place I want to be sure,
because the right things are coming tome at the right time, and I believe that.
(32:50):
Yeah.
And.
What happens when I feel happy forother people is like, I don't know.
The karma starts to work.
Mm. Right.
It's not that I'm being happy ina fake way, but it, I think that's
just how the universe works.
Sure.
And so I am much happier for them.
And I get to learn fromthem and see what worked.
(33:11):
And you know what?
We're stronger in numbers.
Mm. So when we have that community,we help to lift each other up.
Right.
EmLed (33:17):
No, that's so good.
And I think there's a lot ofphilosophy that talks about
like our interconnectednessas well and our oneness.
And you're so right.
Like when we stop focusing so much onour individual selves and how we relate.
To the rest of humanity, but rathersee ourselves as all interwoven and
all helping each other, all workingtowards the one common goal of, of love.
(33:38):
Yes.
I think that that opens our heartsand also the doors for success for us.
Right.
Jennifer Brown (33:44):
They really do start to open.
Yeah,
they do.
When we slow down and we startto look at what's around us.
Yeah.
I think the possibilities are justendless and I'm always reminded
that control thing, I may have a mapthat I think I'm supposed to be on.
Yeah.
No way.
Like when I slow down and I lookaround, it's so much better than I
(34:06):
could ever have imagined for myself.
EmLed (34:08):
Mm mm That's so good.
That just shows God workingin your life, you know?
Totally.
I love that.
I think when we allow God tosurprise and delight us, I.
And not put expectation Yes.
On the outcome.
Yes.
That is where we find the most peace.
I actually really wannaask you about expectation.
Yeah.
I've been having so many conversationswith people in my life recently
(34:29):
realizing how much my expectationon them and my expectation of myself
sets me up for disappointment.
Yeah.
What has been your experience withboth yourself and your clients and.
Noticing how expectationnegatively impacts Lives.
Jennifer Brown (34:47):
Yeah.
Well I think you nailed it.
Expectation is disappointment.
Yeah.
And it's really hard.
Um, so.
It's easier for me to talkabout my clients than myself.
Got you.
Uh, so for my clients, I don'thave expectations for them.
Mm. I'm holding their agenda.
Whatever is important for them.
And so if they say they want to, youknow, change their career or, you know,
(35:14):
move to another state or do somethingdifferent in their leadership role.
Okay.
Then my job is to guide them, empowerthem as we talk through this, and really
start to peel back the layers about why
Yeah,
the why, what's important here,
right.
And what is it that you really want?
I don't have judgmenton whatever they say.
(35:35):
This is their story.
Sure.
You know?
Yeah.
So from that place, the key is reallygetting them to be creative and
seeing a much larger possibility.
eliminating that self-judgment space Yeah.
And uh, expectation, right?
Yeah.
To me, expectation equals the word should.
(35:58):
Mm. Yeah.
Yep.
Which is a form of judging ourselves.
Yeah.
And when I flip the script and talk about myself personally,
that word shows up a lot for me.
I got you.
And so it's work that I do all thetime Catch it, be aware of it and say,
no, actually I don't have to do that.
Right.
I don't have to feel this.
(36:19):
Right.
This isn't mine to carry.
Right.
So the work internally is harder, Ithink, than holding space for my clients.
Yeah.
Uh, and so I believe we'realways a work in progress.
I won't have all the answerson this side of life.
Amen.
And so it is, how do Icontinue to grow in that space?
(36:40):
Expectation can really hurtus in our relationships.
Yeah, absolutely.
EmLed (36:45):
A lot of what I keep hearing you say is just being more loving
and being softer on ourselves.
Jennifer Brown (36:50):
Yes.
EmLed (36:51):
Um, I've heard you say celebrate the small wins.
Yeah.
I've heard you say catchthe negative self talk.
Yeah.
Maybe give yourself a hug.
Yeah.
Um, sit and just give yourself spaceto feel, what are some other ways
that we can be softer with ourselves?
Jennifer Brown (37:07):
I love that.
Oh, that's a great question.
Um, I want to mention one thingas you were summing that up.
Grace is big for me.
It's in my company name.
Yeah.
Um, I do believe that as a Christian, I dobelieve I have received grace, even when
it's hard for me to give myself grace.
Mm. So being softer means recognizing whenwe can't do it alone and finding faith.
(37:35):
Our people around us, our, our tribe,our community who can help lift us.
A coach, right.
Who can be there to support.
Yeah, because being softer doesn'tmean I. Being stronger by yourself.
EmLed (37:49):
Mm. I'm so glad you said that.
'cause that's where my mind goes to.
Yeah.
How can I be more unbreakable alone?
Right.
Jennifer Brown (37:56):
Yeah.
Right.
I, I, you know, I always felt I neededto be the strong, independent woman.
Same.
I'm the oldest of five kids.
I'm the only girl.
Mm. I
was like, I'm doing this.
Yeah.
You know, and it has servedme to a certain extent and
not always in the best way.
Mm.
So, recognizing when to ask for help.
And then actually allow it.
(38:16):
Yeah, I'm still working
EmLed (38:18):
on that.
Yeah.
Same.
Same.
You are me, Jen.
You are me.
Jennifer Brown (38:24):
So for everyone listening, right?
Like this is an ongoingevolution that we Yeah.
That we work through.
But the thing is I love thatyou are wrestling with life
and these questions right now.
Yeah.
Because honestly, I wasn't fullywrestling with these questions.
At a younger age, probably around40, you know when the term midlife
(38:44):
crisis normally starts to hit.
Sure.
And I wish I had been thinkingabout some of these earlier in life,
some of these bigger questions.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Yeah.
EmLed (38:52):
Yeah.
I notice in ourgeneration, I think with I.
The introduction of socialmedia and the internet.
We have access to so much information.
And I think because of that, alot of us have grown up quicker.
Yeah.
And we've also been confronted withour inadequacy and our struggle and
we've had the, the knowledge andthe resources to start working on
(39:13):
it earlier than your generation did.
Yeah.
And I noticed for a lot of people who listen to my podcast, friends of Mine,
just people kind of in a similar season.
A lot of them are reallygrappling with these questions.
Yeah.
Wondering what is thepoint of all of this?
How do I live a life that I'm proud of?
How do, why do I feel like this?
I don't wanna feel like this.
And I think really what it comes downto is making a conscious decision.
(39:38):
I. To To wrestle.
Yes.
To be in the match.
To not just let life happen to you.
You, that's right.
And to have some skin in the game.
Jennifer Brown (39:46):
Have the skin in the game.
Go through the mud.
One of my key phrases is, howam I putting pain to purpose?
Mm. So it doesn't mean Ihave to go save the world.
How am I living?
My purpose in a way that can bring me joy.
Yeah.
And joy does not need to be something big.
Right.
We think about mindfulness as like,oh, let me go meditate and do yoga, and
(40:07):
those are wonderful, don't get me wrong.
Sure, sure.
And we can be in a microsecondin a different place where
we can choose joy, right.
Where we are.
Yeah.
And
so the, I think the goal is how do we find
that more often during the day?
EmLed (40:23):
Hmm.
I love that I could probably sit hereand pick your brain for three more hours,
but I wanted to wrap up by leaving youwith one question for everyone listening.
What is the biggest piece of adviceyou would give to someone who is
young in their career and justgetting started and figuring it out?
Like if you could go backto 20 or 30-year-old Jen.
(40:43):
Yeah.
What would you tell her?
Jennifer Brown (40:45):
Oh, that is so great.
I think there are a couplepoints I would make.
One is take the time to reflectand spend that time with
yourself to get the clarity.
Um, when we mindlessly go through themotions, we're not living intentionally.
And then before we knowit, life is grinding us up.
(41:05):
Yep.
So do the work of taking some time to be with yourself.
Yeah.
You know, another thing I would, another point, so I'll have three.
So the second one is.
Everybody talks about work life balance.
I don't believe that exists.
Mm. I do believe that we are ona pendulum and we get to choose
(41:27):
how we swing the pendulum.
Sure.
So knowing when we need to bemore work, when we need to be more
personal, faith, whatever community,wherever your pendulum needs to go.
Sure.
When I look back, I perhaps spenta little too much on the work side.
I got you.
So it goes back to thatfirst point of reflecting.
(41:50):
Yeah.
Two is taking a bit of controlof the pendulum when you can.
Right.
I mean, sometimes, you know,it has to be on work, but
taking control of the pendulum.
And the third is really connectionsthrough faith, through your tribe.
Don't go it alone.
EmLed (42:08):
Mm.
Jennifer Brown (42:09):
You don't need to do it alone because you're not alone.
EmLed (42:11):
No, you're not.
No.
No one is alone.
Jennifer Brown (42:13):
No.
EmLed (42:13):
So many people that I meet, first of all, that advice was all amazing.
So many people that I meet thoughreally feel alone in their struggles.
Yeah.
And there's this questionof what's wrong with me?
Like, I must be the onlyone going through this.
Yeah.
And to anyone in that space, like you justsaid, I echo everything you just said.
You are not alone.
(42:34):
No.
And.
It's not on you to figureit all out by yourself.
And there's for one so many resourcesthese days that can help you.
There's life coaches even talkingthrough with your parents.
Maybe some, some things thatyou struggled with as a kid can
Jennifer Brown (42:48):
be really healing.
It is so true.
And, and for fullvulnerability and transparency.
At one point I had my pastor, I hada therapist, I had a life coach.
I
love that.
And I had my parents and friends.
Yeah, right.
Like I was in.
A rock bottom place.
Yeah.
And thankfully I didn'ttry to do it alone.
Mm. So there was nothing wrong with me.
(43:11):
I wasn't broken.
But from that place, Ifound my breakthrough.
Mm. So I think societycan make us feel ashamed.
And that shame, Brene Brown isnot where we're supposed to be.
EmLed (43:24):
It's not, and that's not where God wants us either.
That's what the enemy wants.
He wants us in.
And when we, when
Jennifer Brown (43:29):
we uncover that and put light on it,
that's where the real magic is.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
EmLed (43:35):
Well, Jen, thank you so much for joining me today.
You're so well spoken, you're soknowledgeable, and I would love
for you to just plug how theaudience can get in touch with you.
Jennifer Brown (43:44):
Aw, thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, what a delight to be with you.
It was fun for anyone interested.
I am at Journey of grace coaching.com.
I am here to walk with you.
If you are looking for that extrasupport, we don't have to do this alone.
I'm also on social media.
EmLed (44:00):
Yes.
I will plug your LinkedInin the show notes for you.
Thank you.
Thank
Jennifer Brown (44:03):
you.
I'm just so thrilled to be here with you.
EmLed (44:05):
Yeah.
I'm so glad that you came and youalso have a really good podcast voice,
so if you ever wanna start your ownpodcast, I would definitely listen.
Oh, that feels like a challenge.
I think you could do it.
I think you could do it.
And I think what I love about yourenergy and your voice is like.
Just the grace that you havefor both yourself and others.
It really is evident in the waythat you speak and it's something
(44:27):
that I'm challenging myself todo is just to be less critical
and judgmental and be softer.
So thank you so much for coming andsharing your knowledge and being yourself.
Thank you so much.
Jennifer Brown (44:38):
It is such really an honor to be here with you.
EmLed (44:41):
Thanks, Jen.
All right.
Bye guys.
I never know how to end it.
Bye guys.
I love it.
Okay, bye.
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