October 15, 2023 • 47 mins
Episode 36
Join me for a captivating podcast interview with Eryk Pruitt, the author of Something Bad Wrong, a gripping novel inspired by an unsolved true crime case from the 1970s in North Carolina. We talked about the fusion of fact and fiction in this great interview. Get ready for an insightful and intriguing conversation! 📖🕵️♂️
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A QUICK LOOK AT BOOKS and RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
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Books and Other Resources Mentioned in this episode:
- The Long Dance Podcast: https://longdance.libsyn.com/
- Yonder Bar: https://yonderbarnc.com/
- Something Bad Wrong: https://amzn.to/46wZKP3
- Dirtbags: https://amzn.to/3ZWAcbA
- Blood Red Summer: https://amzn.to/403zqtC
- Dark Yonder 1: https://amzn.to/3PZEgTQ
- Dark Yonder 2: https://amzn.to/3ZWAxLo
- Dark Yonder 3: https://amzn.to/46S7riO
- Bare-Naked Lola: https://amzn.to/3PVh6yc
- Crust No One: https://amzn.to/48Rc7XV
- Flour in the Attic: https://amzn.to/3M13EaK
- Visit Eryk Pruitt's Website: http://www.erykpruitt.com/
- Visit Melissa Bourbon's Website: http://www.melissabourbon.com
- Visit WriterSpark Academy: http://www.writersparkacademy.com
- Learn about WriterSpark Course: https://writersparkwritingacademy.teachable.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What happens when an unsolved double murder that took place back in the seventies takes hold of your psyche and doesn't let go.
Well,
if you're Eric Pruitt,
author of Something Bad Wrong and also investigator and producer of the podcast,
The Long Dance,
you create a podcast and you write a novel.
(00:23):
That is what we're talking about today.
My guest is Eric Pruitt.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the writer Spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
Welcome.
15 years ago,
I was an avid reader but not a writer.
(00:43):
I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,
but I had dream to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
Now,
I'm a number one Amazon and national best selling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.
(01:10):
I'm an ordinary person,
a wife,
a mom,
a daughter,
a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through Writers Spark.
I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
I'm here as your partner,
as you navigate your own writing journey.
I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft,
(01:33):
to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.
Welcome to the Writer Spark Podcast.
I'm here with Eric Pruitt today.
Author of Something Bad Wrong,
which is a book greatly influenced by the True crime podcast that he was part of investigating called The Long Dance,
(01:56):
which we're going to talk about and I'll read a little bit about later.
But first,
welcome to the Writer Park podcast.
Eric.
Thank you so much for being here.
Oh,
man.
Thank you,
Melissa.
Thank you very much for having me,
man.
This,
this is great.
It's great to see you again.
Yeah.
Well,
we live in the same town and Eric owns a social club slash club slash bar in town,
which is awesome.
(02:16):
So we live in a really literary town which I love.
Yeah,
dude,
Hillsboro is great.
It,
you can't,
you can't throw a rock at your door and not hit a writer.
Exactly.
That's what brought us here.
You know,
we looked in the entire area and once our real estate agent,
you know,
heard what I did and kind of what kind of place we wanted.
She's like I know where we got to go Hillsboro,
(02:38):
especially if you like throwing rocks at writers.
Yeah,
exactly.
Well,
let's jump in.
I want to start first by asking you to tell us a little bit about your origin story.
Meaning how did you get started writing?
I know that something bad wrong is not the first fiction book that you've written.
So,
um,
kind of tell us where you are in your path and how you got started in fiction.
(03:02):
Oh,
man,
I've been,
I mean,
I've been writing my whole life.
Um just never really had anywhere to put it,
you know,
and you remember,
like back in the eighties and nineties where they had that big old writers guide where it listed all the magazines and you had to put the story in an envelope and mail it out like with stamp like our parents did and like you wait for uh a rejection to come if it don't come,
(03:24):
you know,
just after years of that,
I just figured it wasn't for me.
Um And so just didn't do it,
went off to school,
et cetera.
And then,
uh I actually wrote a script one time.
Uh I did a lot of screenwriting again.
Nothing ever got made,
but I wrote a script and some guys at a bar,
I was at where filmmakers looking for a script and then once that got made,
(03:48):
I just couldn't stop,
you know,
if you watch your,
you know,
watch your own thing,
get made and started writing stories again and then books and then the podcast.
And Hurrah,
here we are now,
how is writing a screenplay different from writing fiction?
And are you still writing screenplays?
I,
I do sometimes I don't do it as much.
(04:08):
There was,
uh,
I think,
you know,
over the last 10 years it's gone up and down.
I found a little niche market writing scripts for actors and actresses that wanted to do a web series or something.
So I had a lot of work done in Atlanta and it was fun.
The biggest difference between writing scripts and um and fiction is I don't have to write all that internal stuff.
(04:31):
You know,
it's just all straight dialogue,
which is a lot of fun.
So sometimes when I'm stuck writing a book,
I'll write the scene out as a script so I can get all the action and dialogue down and then try to read,
conceive it as something that will be interesting on a,
on a page.
So just a side note,
totally unrelated to our topic here.
But do you as a screenwriter or scriptwriter,
(04:54):
input what you think the character should be feeling here or is that totally up to the director?
I try to leave as much up to the director as possible because directors are just as,
uh uh if not more of narcissists and control freaks than actors are.
So you want them to feel,
(05:15):
no,
you want them to,
like,
take the work and make it their own.
So,
if they,
you know,
it's not often it's not that it's not uncommon for them to reach out to me and ask me for clarification or for motivation or something.
But you try to leave as much to happen in their head as possible because once they start seeing it and once they start making it their own,
(05:37):
they're more likely to use it.
That was interesting.
I just had did a recording for a podcast the other day with Marjorie mccowan who had her first book released recently.
Um,
and she was a costume designer in Hollywood for 30 years.
So,
got to hear all about,
yeah,
that life and just the life of movie making and she talked a bit about directors and that bit of narcissism.
(06:01):
So it's interesting.
Yeah,
it takes a special,
it takes a special breed of narcissist to direct.
I've directed three things by the way.
Well,
it's,
yeah,
it's an interesting life.
Ok.
Let's jump into our topic which is kind of loosely,
um,
ripped from the headlines topics and how that impacts your plot.
(06:25):
I myself use a lot of rip from the headlines topics for my plots that I,
you know,
meld together or,
you know,
take a nugget from and then evolve into something.
Um,
but,
you know,
definitely I've used the Carry Stayner murder of the Yosemite murders back in the nineties uh he killed a mother and two girls and he hid out at a nudist resort actually nearby where we lived at the time in California.
(06:52):
And that's where he was captured.
And,
you know,
25 years later,
that became a plot in one of my first series.
So,
you know,
it's funny how things,
yeah.
Circle around and Dorothea Puente also in Sacramento that the um landlady killer who killed people for their social security checks and whatnot.
(07:12):
Anyway.
Um,
so you along with a couple of other people did an investigative true crime podcast called The Long Dance.
And I'm just gonna read about that first and then we can talk about um,
how that,
what that process was like,
how that impacted your character Jess in something bad wrong,
who is a true crime podcaster as well.
(07:33):
And then just kind of go from there.
So the Long Dance,
which you can find anywhere correct.
I listen to it on Apple on February 12th,
1971 in Durham,
North Carolina,
a 20 year old nursing student and her 19 year old boyfriend left a Valentine's dance to park down a secluded lover's lane.
They never returned.
Two weeks later,
(07:53):
their bodies were found deep within the Carolina pines.
They had been strangled,
tortured and murdered.
Their murders have never been solved.
The Long Dance is the story of the lives touched by the murders of Patricia Mann and Jesse mcbain,
produced by crime fiction author Eric Pruitt,
investigative reporter Drew Aime and sound engineer Piper Kessler.
(08:14):
It uses recorded interviews to tell the tragic tale of North Carolina's most baffling murder your case.
The eight part true crime podcast with perfect for fans of serial and S town,
both of which I listened to as well and I absolutely agree.
It's a fascinating story.
Y'all did a great job and thank you so much and telling it.
So.
Yeah,
tell me about how that came about.
(08:35):
I had never,
I,
I'm fairly new,
you know,
five years in North Carolina.
Um,
so I hadn't heard of it,
but how did you come upon this true crime?
Well,
I,
uh,
I lived like,
where I lived was right in the middle of where they had been kidnapped in 1971 abducted and then where they were found,
like where they were found.
(08:56):
If you're familiar with the area here,
like,
if you have ever gone swimming in the quarry,
you know,
you'll be passing by where,
uh,
they were,
their bodies were found.
And if you've ever been over to like Crosdale golf course,
that's,
you know,
what's now the golf course used to be where all the kids would go and make out.
So that was,
I lived at the time right between those two spots and the,
(09:19):
um,
an investigative journalist named Drew Adamec came to town and he,
his wife,
uh,
moved around a lot.
I forget what it was.
She did for a living.
But she moved around a lot and everywhere he moved he would try to get involved in like the lo,
you know,
he was a journalist,
he get involved in like the local journalism.
So he,
he had just read an article that I had written for the Indie,
(09:39):
a free paper out here and came to meet me at my bar to ask if I wanted to team up with him on a long form piece.
And his assignment was,
we'll go home,
we will each look up three stories.
And then a week later we meet for coffee and we pitch each other the three stories and we'd see which one was best.
(10:01):
And so when I came home and started kind of looking around like local stories that,
uh you know,
would,
you know,
would pique my curiosity.
I found that one and then I just couldn't find any other one.
So I it was better than that.
So I basically came to him with that one and kind of told him I was like,
I don't know what your three stories are,
but this one is the one right here.
(10:21):
This one,
the thing that was most intriguing about it besides like what she said that these uh these two people left the Valentine's dance and were went missing for two weeks until their bodies were found.
Was that basically,
that was all there was about it.
You know,
50 years,
nearly 50 years had passed.
There was no further information about it at all.
(10:43):
Uh,
they,
there was no suspects listed.
There was no,
you know,
just every once in a while the cops would,
would offer a reward and that was,
that was it.
So,
I figured anything that we found out or anything that we said about it would be more than had ever really been said about it,
which made it kind of easy.
I had no idea that we were gonna spend the next 2.5 years on what turned out to be like a borderline obsession for me.
(11:09):
Um It was the first thing I thought about every night when I went to bed.
It was the first thing I thought about every morning when I woke up.
I missed a lot of dinners because I'd start looking at something and my wife would be in the other room cooking and then three hours later,
you know,
I come out and my plate's cold or whatever.
I just got absolutely obsessed.
And,
um,
and so when you were,
(11:32):
I'm just gonna kind of jump back and forth.
I think when you were creating Jess as your protagonist for this new series,
did you infuse her with a lot of those same traits that obsession,
you know,
did you try and make her different from how you process that True Crime podcast?
And what,
what was,
how did your experience with that influence?
(11:54):
How you wrote her and the investigation that she undergoes.
One thing I wanted to have Jess go through that was similar to my experience was that like,
how deep you get into it and you don't pay attention to,
like,
basically how naive you are,
you know,
like just get in the story is so important that there's like even a moment where they are almost in danger.
(12:21):
Uh There's a couple of moments where they walk like into straight up danger.
Uh,
that happened a couple of times,
but you're like,
so focused on getting the story that you don't realize until you know,
you're driving away that,
oh my God,
we were close.
Um,
we are close to really being in some trouble there.
I felt that definitely listening to the podcast thinking that,
(12:42):
wow,
you just barge in and that guy could be a murderer,
you know.
Oh,
yeah.
There,
there,
there is a moment in the story where that,
um,
where they go to interview someone and there is a cage that really happened in real life.
We drew and I,
yeah,
we went to coffee and we were talking about how we couldn't meet.
(13:02):
Uh,
we couldn't get this one guy to answer the phone.
We couldn't get him to talk to us.
And we said,
uh,
well,
let's just go drive down here.
It's in Greensboro.
So let's just go drive and meet him and we go and talk to him.
He's very hostile.
And he's very angry that we're bringing up this old event and then finally agrees to let us inside.
And when we go inside his house,
he's behind us.
(13:23):
The first thing I see when I walk into his living room was that there was no furniture anywhere,
there was plastic on the ground and there was a 6 ft tall cage in the middle of the room.
And the next thing I hear is the door locking behind me.
And right then like my stomach went,
my heart went down into my stomach and I was like,
(13:44):
we didn't tell anybody where we were going.
Um How long am I gonna be in that cage with Drew?
You know,
before my wife or the detective we were working with puts it together where we are if they do it all and it turned out to be nothing.
Uh We never really found out what was up by the cage.
He had a lot of cats.
So I think that's like where he put his cats.
(14:05):
Um But,
uh,
but yeah,
never really found out what was,
that's not your typical,
you know,
cat owner behavior though.
Big 6 ft tall cage.
There was nothing typical about this man.
Um There was nothing typical whatsoever and when we told the detective that we went and talked to him,
he was like that guy's character,
isn't he?
I was like,
dude,
say the least.
(14:26):
Yeah,
that's frightening.
And I can,
I can I get a visceral reaction to that thinking,
oh my God.
I can't even imagine you put yourself in that position.
We did also interview the number one suspect.
Um,
he was a doctor in Durham for 50 years and the police couldn't really get him to talk.
(14:48):
The media never really got him to talk.
And then,
uh,
we went and had an interview with him and,
uh,
I had five listening devices and a hidden camera on me.
And we use the,
we use the,
um we used the audio for that in the podcast as well.
Is that legal to do here in North Carolina?
(15:08):
We are a one party state.
Ok,
because I believe in Texas,
you're not,
I think you have to have two party consent,
right?
Yeah.
Some states,
you know,
like,
uh some of the states around DC because they don't want you,
you know,
because all the politicians there.
But yeah,
this one here,
uh it was OK.
Interesting.
(15:29):
Uh All right.
So let me read the blurb about something bad wrong.
I love that title also,
which came as I recall,
one of the characters in the podcast said that and that's where it was pulled from.
Right.
Yes.
That's exactly right.
It was a nurse that we interviewed and I remember her line was when she was talking about how,
(15:50):
when they didn't show up,
uh when the couple didn't show up the next day,
that's what she said.
That's when I knew that something was wrong,
that something had gone wrong,
something bad wrong.
And that just rang in my ears.
Yeah.
All right.
So about something bad wrong to catch the killer who eluded her detective grandfather 50 years ago,
(16:10):
a true crime podcaster must contend with outdated evidence,
ulterior motives and the dark family secrets that got in the way.
True crime podcaster.
Jess Keillor has returned to Dayton County,
North Carolina to pick up where her grandfather left off.
Sheriff's deputy Big Jim Ballard.
Her grandfather was a respected detective until it all came crashing down during a 1972 murder investigation for Jim solving the murders of two teens should have been the highlight of his already storied career.
(16:38):
Instead,
he battled his own mind unsure where his hunches ended and the truth began working from her grandfather's disjointed notes.
Jess is sure that she can finally put the cold case and her family's shame to rest enlisting the help of disgraced reporter Dan Decker.
Jess soon discovers ugly truths about the first investigation which was shaped by corruption egos and a family secret that may be the key to the crime told in the dual timeline that covers both investigations.
(17:05):
Something bad wrong explores human folly hubris and has sometimes to solve a crime.
You have to find out who's covering it up.
That sounds like a party.
I know that's,
it's so compelling.
So at what point did you make the decision to take everything that had become part of the Long dance and turn it into this book or use it,
(17:28):
not turn it into this book,
but use it to,
you know,
influence the plot of this book,
I guess.
Well,
it took 2.5 years to do that podcast and a lot of that was periods of time where we were waiting for access to something because the law enforcement would not talk to us for six months.
They said they don't,
uh,
they said it was an active,
(17:49):
it was may not be an active investigation,
but it wasn't closed and they don't talk to journalists about open investigations.
And so they had shut us down.
So we spent like six months getting our own information,
everything we could.
And then we went back to them and said,
this is what we have,
this is who I think did it.
This is why.
And it turned out we had more information or we had some information that they didn't have.
(18:13):
And so the detective realized that by working with us,
uh,
you know,
we,
we have resources that they didn't have,
which was basically time,
you know,
they're working on current crimes if they worked with us,
you know,
they could still have control of the investigation.
So,
but that was six months where we thought we may not have anything,
you know.
So,
(18:34):
uh,
or there was like when we were trying to approach the suspect,
you know,
without the suspect's voice,
it was going to be very difficult to do anything.
So there were so many periods where it was like this may not happen and,
but the story was so compelling and there were so many gaps in the story that my brain just naturally fills in the gaps with fiction.
(18:54):
And I spent a lot of time with the investigator.
Uh,
Captain Tim Horn became Major Tim Horn of the Orange County Sheriff's office.
And we would go like on long drives to different,
um,
suspects or different uh leads,
follow different leads.
And we would always say things like,
you know,
it was often him saying this would make a great movie,
(19:17):
this would make a great book,
you know,
who would believe this.
If this was actually in a movie,
people would think we're making this up.
Um And even the uh victims,
a relative,
uh who also,
you know,
refused this access in the beginning,
but eventually gave us access and her name is Carolyn.
(19:37):
And by the way,
the book is dedicated to Tim and Carolyn because for so many times,
we were like,
can you imagine if this was a movie?
Can you imagine if this was a book?
And so we had said that forever and unfortunately,
real life,
unlike fiction,
you don't always get and ending,
you know,
or even,
you know,
not to mention the ending you want,
but you sometimes don't even get an ending.
(19:58):
There is no such thing as closure.
There's not a thing where it's just going,
you know,
there's no,
there's not a perfect ending.
And so it was kind of a gift I was giving to them.
Uh I remember when I got my advanced reader copies,
I asked them to dinner and I didn't tell him I had been working on this book and so I knew they were either going to be happy or they were going to be angry.
(20:22):
Uh So I took them to dinner and at the end of dinner,
you know,
once again,
the conversation always goes to,
oh man,
where do you think he is now talking about the suspect?
What?
You know,
I wish we could have done this.
I just wish I wish this would have happened.
And so then I told them I was like,
hey,
you know,
speaking of,
you know,
we've always said that we wanted some kind of ending.
We didn't get the ending we want.
(20:43):
I'm hoping that this does something I gave him the copies of the book.
So we're dedicated to them and they were not angry.
They were,
I remember Carolyn read it over a weekend and I was getting texts all weekend long about actually,
I just read chapter four and blah,
blah,
blah.
You know,
I just read chapter seven.
I can't believe you,
you know.
Uh So that was cool.
Tim,
the investigator read it much more slowly.
(21:06):
And uh he was very specific in his notes as well.
So it was,
it was a great experience.
Yeah,
I can imagine.
And,
and I can imagine the,
even though it's not really closure,
which I know is such a cliche word,
but that's something you didn't get with the actual investigation.
I mean,
(21:26):
the case is still unsolved technically.
Right.
It is.
Yeah.
So to,
to be able to have closure and bring to justice the person you feel 99% sure did.
It has got to be somewhat gratifying for you who spent so much time investigating,
but also for them who were so closely connected,
(21:48):
you know,
the aunt,
but then also the major,
you know,
the time that he spent and having the boxes in the corner and everything,
I mean,
just never letting it go.
Oh yeah,
he,
you know,
I could call him right now,
which I,
I probably will do when we're done.
Uh because I had spoken to him in a minute,
but I could call him right now,
no matter what we talk about that will end up coming up,
(22:10):
you know,
and it's all,
it's,
and,
you know,
I think it was recently in the news that,
you know,
Orange County just solved another cold case,
you know.
Uh uh I think yesterday they announced that they had solved the identity of a missing of a dead woman that they found in 1990.
They finally put her together.
And,
uh,
Tim Horn had done the same thing with a young boy that he found,
(22:34):
you know,
they found that his remains in 1998 and right before he left in 2019,
he solved that case.
So he had,
he,
he,
he had three big cases and two of them he put away and he always talks about this one is the one that,
you know,
still bugs him.
Yeah.
Uh,
I mean,
the lack of communication between the different counties and law enforcement agencies and SB I and all of that to me,
(23:01):
that was just,
I mean,
you know,
that these things happen,
right?
But when it's so close to home and,
you know,
you're so invested in it,
it's just so disturbing and disheartening that they couldn't get their act together to work together.
It is,
it is,
uh,
it's different now,
even while I was riding around with Tim,
(23:22):
it was,
you know,
and we,
and we,
and I'm studying on this situation where these departments would not speak with each other and these jurisdictions were always battling while I'm on these rides with him.
He would get texts from a Durham homicide detective asking for some information and they'd just be texting back and forth.
But,
you know,
like 50 years ago,
they didn't have text,
(23:42):
uh,
they didn't even really one story I heard that was,
uh,
amazing to me.
But like in the seventies in Chapel Hill,
they had what was called Coke bottle dispatch where you were required while you were on patrol as a Chapel Hill police officer to drive past the station.
(24:02):
And if the window of the station was propped open with a coke bottle,
that meant they needed you to check in so they could send you somewhere.
They didn't have radios,
they weren't radioing people out.
You had to drive by,
see if the coke bottle was propped up on the window sill and they call it coke bottle dispatch.
So if you're ever talking to an old Chapel Hill cop mention the mention the coke bottle dispatch and watch them,
(24:23):
watch,
watch your faces light up.
That's crazy.
Those are the things that you put the details you put in a book and people are going,
what that can't possibly think you're lying,
you're lying.
Yeah,
that's wild.
This episode of the writer's Spark podcast is brought to you by writer Spark Academy and the Ready set write class.
(24:46):
The course is self paced and chock full of everything.
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(25:10):
conflict mapping to story,
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setting point of view,
dialogue,
tone,
mood,
and voice.
This course,
has it all enroll now and get ready to feel confident and prepared to write the novel that you've been planning the obstacles that you faced in investigating the murders of uh Jesse mcbain and Patricia Mann.
(25:44):
Did,
did you have Jess face the same obstacles,
you know,
did you create other obstacles for her that you didn't face?
How much of your experience really ended up being her experience?
Well,
I didn't have to put up with a pervy handsy canceled news anchorman like I just did.
(26:04):
Uh,
uh Dan Decker was one of my favorite characters.
I had written,
uh,
a lot of him got taken out,
uh,
you know,
in the,
you know,
throughout the editing processes because he was just,
he was too much.
Uh And so,
well,
I didn't have to put up with that,
but sometimes there is the frustration that you'll go through.
Like when you,
you know,
everything is everything just takes so much time.
(26:26):
It took forever to get the cops to open up to us.
It took forever to get the,
the,
the,
the family to,
to,
to trust us.
Uh We couldn't get any nurses to talk to us until,
you know,
they,
they were given the green light from the family.
And then once they did,
you couldn't get them to stop you know,
uh,
they were,
they were really,
they were,
uh,
they really wanted it solved but they were tired of,
(26:48):
you know,
every once in a while some news reporter would come around on an anniversary or something and start digging it up and,
and bothering them.
So they didn't want that to happen.
Um,
you know,
so that was,
that was the hardest part,
was all the waiting and getting people to open up and trust you.
And then once things started falling,
at some point,
(27:09):
it feels like they're falling too fast.
How is the,
the plotting pro I mean,
I,
I imagine the plotting process for the True Crime podcast was somewhat similar,
but maybe even more difficult than plotting a novel because you have all of this different information that you're trying to piece together as the investigator,
right?
And in,
(27:29):
in the novel,
I guess you had the information based on the podcast.
But,
you know,
when you're crafting a novel,
you get to make stuff up and make it fit,
you know.
So how,
what is that plotting process like for all of the information that you and drew gathered during this 2.5 year period?
That um that's some of the work.
(27:49):
I am most proud of the,
where I'm most proud of the work because it was,
it was a lot and you have to figure out how to take this information.
And like I said,
it's,
it's too much information in some areas and in some areas it's not enough.
And so how can I take this information and deliver it to you in a way that's interesting and informative and true.
(28:13):
You know,
and I'm talking about the podcast and so I have some photos or some videos of like what my office looked like and there would be,
you know,
all up around the wall,
there would be things stacked up and taped and then on the couch and then on the floor and there were sometimes where I'd have to close my doors to no cat or my wife doesn't come in and mess anything up because these things were in an order and it looked like absolute chaos.
(28:39):
But I could turn around and tell you exactly where one scrap of paper is where I had written something that's important and I had to take all of that and put it into,
uh,
you know,
a less than 60 minute,
uh,
you know,
bite size pieces.
Um,
so of everything I've ever written in my entire life,
(29:00):
you know,
if someone had read everything and said this is my favorite where someone says this is my,
my favorite thing I have ever written in my entire life is episode two of the Long Dance because that was so much information you had so many investigations that I had to give you this,
I had to catch you up on to everything in 60 minutes and it was hard.
(29:26):
It was extremely difficult,
but it was one of those things where you feel like you're working and the work is,
and then when it's done you were like,
you know,
it's not coal mining,
but still,
I was like,
wow.
And I,
every once in a while I'll go back and look at the notes,
you know,
when I'm having trouble organizing something and just try to get back into the spirit where I was that I was in,
(29:46):
when I was doing episode two.
As far as the book goes,
you know,
it,
the hardest part was taking things out because I was trying,
you know,
I was trying to put everything my,
all my experiences in there and,
you know,
my agent,
my editors,
everyone was like,
you know,
it's too much,
it's too much.
You need to slim this down a little and I think we still rolled in like 400 something pages,
(30:09):
but it was longer.
It was longer.
Yeah.
Well,
I mean,
that's quite a story to tell.
So,
did you have the same note system up on your walls and everything while you were writing the book or was it so much internalized by that point that your,
your,
um,
you know,
your story arc and your notes were much more confined?
(30:29):
No,
I have a,
I think it's no,
it's in the other room.
I had a box that just papers would just end up going into,
um,
I did,
I did,
I did a lot of work,
but a majority of it,
by that point had been internalized,
like all that information has just been like burned into my brain that it was all,
(30:49):
it was pretty easy to keep straight,
uh yellow notepads,
you know,
I had like three or four of these yellow notepads with all the information and I can call it back up,
but it was nowhere near as detailed because,
you know,
with the podcast,
we were,
we were dealing strictly with truth,
you know,
and I want to make sure that everything is,
is true and,
(31:10):
you know,
I don't want to get sued for saying the wrong thing,
right?
Were you worried about that in terms of taking things from real life and putting it into your fiction book?
Were you worried that somebody would recognize themselves and you know,
that there are reliability issues or anything like that?
No,
because it was,
it is like 100% fiction.
(31:31):
So,
you know,
there,
there may be like in real life a moment that is mirrored.
Um But none of the people the people were,
were really,
you know,
because I think that even disappointed the um you know,
the Investigator Tim Horn because he was like,
which character am I?
And I'm like,
well,
you know,
(31:52):
make a character uh based on you,
but there were characters that said things that he has said to me.
So,
um so Yeah,
they're all fiction and I am almost saying that as a disclaimer.
Yeah.
I know.
I took,
uh,
we had a terrible experience one time when we were living somewhere in an undisclosed state and I,
(32:15):
I tell you I killed off this person in a book.
I changed her name but I actually,
it's an anagram for her name and it was very gratifying,
you know,
to be able to get justice in fiction that we couldn't get in real life.
And actually I had another kind of recently and it's going into a current book.
Yeah.
So that is,
(32:35):
you have to,
it's a fine line,
right?
You,
you're creating these composite characters that can't mirror somebody directly.
And I think,
you know,
they,
they take on a personality,
a life of their own in fiction anyway,
you know,
they can't be completely somebody from real life but,
you know,
definitely bits and pieces and that can be really gratifying.
Have you ever heard the,
(32:56):
and I forget the author that did this,
but a quick Google search will do it.
But do you,
have you ever figured,
have you ever heard the way that they say to get out of getting sued for basing a fiction character?
You know,
if it's a man,
give him a small genitalia,
it's called the small penis defense.
(33:17):
And if you give the character small genitalia and he wants to take you to court,
that's the question they say.
So this character is based on you.
That must mean you have and right then no one will take you to court.
So,
like,
that's,
that's,
uh,
I forget the author.
But if you Google it,
it will come,
it will come up.
But that,
that's his rule.
That's funny.
(33:37):
Yeah.
Not something that comes up in the cozy mysteries and lighthearted Happy Murders that I write.
But yet,
so,
um,
tell me about your first book and that's very different from this book based on the podcast,
correct?
Um,
are you talking the first one?
Like dirt bags?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
(33:58):
Um,
yeah,
that one's about a guy who isn't good at anything and decides to be,
uh,
it's a dark comedy.
He decides he's going to be a killer,
uh,
a serial killer because he's not good at anything else.
And,
uh,
he is hired by a man who wants to kill his ex-wife to have his ex wife killed quietly.
(34:20):
But our dumb main character can't do anything quietly.
So,
and then hilarity ensues.
It's a family story takes place in Texas,
right?
Uh,
there's part of it in Texas,
part of it in Texas.
Uh,
uh,
and,
uh,
yeah,
that one was,
that one is the first one that was,
uh,
there was a lot of fun.
I,
(34:40):
but purely fictional was that not based on any particular person that you knew that or had read about that wanted to be a serial killer.
I will plead the fifth.
Um,
no,
it's,
uh,
yeah,
it's,
it's fiction,
it's fiction and it's just,
it's just,
it's just a dark comedy.
I is my favorite book that I've written because it's just so lean and mean,
(35:02):
I was reading a lot of Jim Thompson at the time,
so I wanted to write my own Jim Thompson book.
And,
uh,
so,
yeah,
it's a little lean me,
I don't think I could turn anything in and under 70,000 words ever again.
But so it was a,
that's a fun one.
So uh Blood Red Summer comes out in May.
Can you tell us anything about the plot of that?
And is it also based on a true crime?
(35:22):
It is we'll be following Jess Keillor once again.
Uh She uh is now moved on to a documentary series.
Uh So like uh so it'll be like film.
Uh So she's working with a small film crew to solve a crime.
And uh the,
it's based on some experiences I had briefly working with a film crew on the Long Dance.
(35:49):
Uh I got out of that situation as quickly as possible in Lake Caster,
the same community that,
that uh where something bad wrong takes place.
There was a both a grizzly murder uh of three bootleggers and there were also a series of and there was also a sniper targeting the black community in Lake Caster and both crimes after 50 years have been uh not 50 40 years take place,
(36:18):
those take place in the eighties as opposed to the seventies,
those are unsolved and just starts uh to,
to investigate it this true crime documentary series.
And so that's based on some,
some crime,
unsolved crime that you happened to pawn.
Yeah,
in Durham,
uh there were some bootleggers murdered in 1976 and not a lot of people know this,
(36:44):
but there actually was a sniper and uh that was targeting people in the Black Party Durham,
uh the same year and uh they did arrest a man for the crime,
but no one really believes he did it.
(37:04):
And so it's the more and more you look into that story,
the more interesting it is.
But you can't get,
you know,
it's very hard to get information on it.
So,
so,
so you and Drew,
you're not going to tackle this in a podcast yourself.
No,
I actually start,
(37:24):
you know,
I was looking for a season two of the Long Dance and I began investigating the Bootlegger murders.
Um I did speak with a detective,
uh who would not want me to name him.
I did speak with a detective and he warned me about staying away from this story and I told him that's not the way to get me to,
(37:50):
to leave things alone.
Now,
you're making it more interesting.
And he pointed out that,
you know,
this would not be an 80 year old doctor that we are pursuing this time around.
This is an organization,
the,
the the people responsible for it is an organization that's very much still alive and around in Durham and the area and that they would be,
(38:14):
they would not be happy that I would be looking into this.
And at the time that didn't really put me off of it either.
So I continued to look.
But one thing he had told me is he is like at some point when you're asking all these people questions,
you're going to be talking to a person that is going to be talking to a lot of people and you're not going to be able to put that toothpaste back into the tube.
(38:36):
And uh I kept going and one day I had an incident on the highway going up 70 you know,
it's like 11 lane both ways and I'm going up 70 I had two cars behind me.
One was just a beat up old pickup truck and the other was a beat up four door and the four door came around,
(38:56):
got up in front of me and then they kind of boxed me in.
And in that moment,
I was like,
uh,
oh,
you know,
I think this is,
this is,
this is how this is how it happens.
And yeah,
it turned out to be nothing.
But right then,
uh you know,
I had a talk with my wife and I was just like,
you know,
I just laid all the steaks out on the table and I was like,
(39:17):
you know,
this organization is still around,
uh,
you know,
I,
I try to be cagey but like,
it's,
let's just say it's an organization that likes to ride motorcycles,
an organization of a motorcycle enthusiast.
Uh,
they're still around,
they have,
you know,
a history of violence and they don't play by it,
you know,
gentleman's rules and,
(39:38):
uh,
you know,
I didn't make a lot of money off the long dance.
You know,
I think people like to hear that but it's,
you know,
that there's a,
there's a truth to that,
like how much there actually is to be made.
So I talked to my agent and it would just be like,
you know,
if I'm going to get myself in trouble,
you know,
what am I getting myself in trouble for?
And,
uh,
you know,
after the discussion with the wife and everything,
(39:59):
we just made the decision,
we're like,
you know,
what,
maybe we should leave that alone and it's a heartbreaker,
uh,
because I had a lot of information on it.
But,
uh,
it is.
So that's when you just kind of change the things and take a compelling story and make a fiction,
it's a lot safer.
Yeah,
definitely.
(40:20):
As a writer,
how do you like that process versus having sort of the story laid out that you can pull bits and pieces from and mold into your own but you,
you know,
you have sort of a,
a purpose in mind because you're wanting to bring justice to this versus not necessarily having all of that information.
Well,
I mean,
ideally I would like to be able to communicate everything as it happened,
(40:41):
you know.
Uh,
but,
you know,
at the end of the day and it's something that somebody reminded me because there were some things that,
like when we were,
you know,
editing something bad wrong,
there were some things I didn't want taken out because it reflected my experiences as an investigator.
But uh but in the end,
you know,
in the end,
our job,
(41:02):
when you're writing fiction is to entertain,
you know,
our job is to entertain people.
And so,
you know,
that's,
that's it.
You never let that.
I have a sign right up here on my uh bulletin board.
It says,
never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Um Firmly believe that,
you know,
if I'm sitting at the bar or if I'm writing a book,
(41:23):
never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
That's a good motto.
Um All right.
So if you were to give tips,
you know,
the writers Bike podcast is greatly geared towards aspiring writers,
new writers,
people who want to,
you know,
reignite that spark that sometimes fades if you were to give some tips to the listeners about,
(41:44):
you know,
how to approach taking something from real life and turning it into a fictionalized story.
What,
what would you say?
Well,
like if you're looking at the story,
there's a moment in there that makes you want to know more.
You know,
I could,
you know,
so many people will come up and try to tell you a story and you just had no curiosity.
(42:07):
You don't really care if you ever hear the end of this or anymore and you wish they'd stop talking,
you know,
like,
but then there are people that can tell a story in a way that like you'll be asking and then what happened and then what happened?
Well,
what about this?
And that's what you want to capture.
You know,
you could say,
you know,
two young people left the Valentine's dance and this is the last time anybody saw him until two weeks later,
(42:31):
their bodies turned up,
you know,
you say that simple sentence and someone will ask more and they'll ask more and then they want to know more until you know,
onion just gets,
you know,
unraveled.
Um So that's what I would suggest is you take a look at the story,
find the places that make you want to know more and present it in that way so that people are constantly curious and the only way they can satisfy their curiosity is to keep reading and keep listening to you tell this story.
(43:01):
Yeah,
that's interesting.
I I have a um I think if I'm not interested in my plot,
nobody else is gonna be interested.
And that's when I know that there's something wrong.
But one time I was at the airport and my,
I got a call from my editor saying the plot of the book that I was just about to start writing was a tiny bit similar and that it had a reality TV show concept um to another book by the same publisher that was going to come out before mine was scheduled to come out.
(43:29):
The plots were totally different.
The only similarity was this reality TV show.
So she's like we want to push that to your next book and have something else for this book,
you know,
can you do that?
And I was thinking,
OK,
I mean,
yes,
I can do that obviously.
But inside I'm thinking,
oh man,
I don't have another plot.
I was super excited about this one.
I'm looking at the TV,
in the airport and it's just,
(43:50):
you know,
silent,
but there's clothes captioning on and it's about a news.
It's a story about a funeral home director that was being investigated for uh selling body parts on the black market essentially.
And I was just captivated by that.
I thought,
oh my God,
that could be my story right there.
(44:11):
How can I turn that into a story in a cozy mystery happy murder book?
You know,
uh it ended up being quite a bit darker than a lot of my other books,
but it was too good to pass up because like you said,
it just made me have all of these questions.
What are the regulations?
How could somebody possibly do that?
How would that even happen?
And it's those questions that made me keep going and pursuing and investigating and ultimately writing that book which is flower in the attic.
(44:39):
Um And,
and I love it.
I'm really proud of it like you are because I,
I feel like I took something,
I enlightened people.
It's more than just a book,
you know,
with the story.
I feel like I tackled something a little bit bigger.
Oh,
yeah.
Abso,
absolutely.
I,
I,
I think that is the most important thing you anyone can ever give you is their attention and you know,
(45:03):
it would be criminal to waste it.
Yeah.
Well,
Eric,
it's been great talking to you.
I love Long Dance.
It was such a great podcast.
Um Something bad wrong.
I just love that title and I think the book is captivating and especially because I have also listened to the podcast.
So everybody listening out there,
(45:23):
the links for the book,
but also the podcast are in the show notes.
And I highly encourage you to go listen to that podcast because it's really,
really interesting.
The Long Dance with Eric Pruitt.
Tell us real briefly.
What is next for you?
Blood Red Summer.
Yes,
that comes out in May.
Uh I have been asked by the publisher to talk to them about a book three to wrap things up for Jess Keilar.
(45:51):
I am mulling that over.
Um But in the meantime,
I've got another little thing,
I'm,
I'm uh working on at the moment.
Uh If you find yourself in Hillsboro,
of course,
October 26th,
we're doing an Noire at the bar which is eight readers coming out to perform the work.
So please stop in and speaking of we have a uh crime fiction literary journal that we published through Yonder called Dark Yonder.
(46:17):
It's published uh by Thalia Press uh with Katie Munger and myself as the co editors and our fourth issue,
we just put it to bed so it should be out like the beginning of November.
Ok,
great.
And the links for all of that will be in the show notes as well as well as information about Yonder,
which is a really fun place to be Noir at the Bar is a great event.
(46:40):
I love it.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you so very much.
Well,
thank you again for being here,
Eric,
really appreciate it such a fascinating conversation and,
and again,
I just love what you did with both the podcast and the book.
Thank you very much,
man.
I am super,
super stoked that you asked me.
Yeah.
Well,
I appreciate you saying.
Yes.
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
(47:03):
Everyone.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot writers spark academy dot com.
Check out our courses,
our resources and all the content there and I will see you next time until then.
(47:24):
Happy writing.
What happens when an unsolved double murder that took place back in the seventies takes hold of your psyche and doesn't let go.
Well,
if you're Eric Pruitt,
author of Something Bad Wrong and also investigator and producer of the podcast,
The Long Dance,
you create a podcast and you write a novel.
(00:23):
That is what we're talking about today.
My guest is Eric Pruitt.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the writer Spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
Welcome.
15 years ago,
I was an avid reader but not a writer.
(00:43):
I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,
but I had dream to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
Now,
I'm a number one Amazon and national best selling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.
(01:10):
I'm an ordinary person,
a wife,
a mom,
a daughter,
a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through Writers Spark.
I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
I'm here as your partner,
as you navigate your own writing journey.
I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft,
(01:33):
to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.
Welcome to the Writer Spark Podcast.
I'm here with Eric Pruitt today.
Author of Something Bad Wrong,
which is a book greatly influenced by the True crime podcast that he was part of investigating called The Long Dance,
(01:56):
which we're going to talk about and I'll read a little bit about later.
But first,
welcome to the Writer Park podcast.
Eric.
Thank you so much for being here.
Oh,
man.
Thank you,
Melissa.
Thank you very much for having me,
man.
This,
this is great.
It's great to see you again.
Yeah.
Well,
we live in the same town and Eric owns a social club slash club slash bar in town,
which is awesome.
(02:16):
So we live in a really literary town which I love.
Yeah,
dude,
Hillsboro is great.
It,
you can't,
you can't throw a rock at your door and not hit a writer.
Exactly.
That's what brought us here.
You know,
we looked in the entire area and once our real estate agent,
you know,
heard what I did and kind of what kind of place we wanted.
She's like I know where we got to go Hillsboro,
(02:38):
especially if you like throwing rocks at writers.
Yeah,
exactly.
Well,
let's jump in.
I want to start first by asking you to tell us a little bit about your origin story.
Meaning how did you get started writing?
I know that something bad wrong is not the first fiction book that you've written.
So,
um,
kind of tell us where you are in your path and how you got started in fiction.
(03:02):
Oh,
man,
I've been,
I mean,
I've been writing my whole life.
Um just never really had anywhere to put it,
you know,
and you remember,
like back in the eighties and nineties where they had that big old writers guide where it listed all the magazines and you had to put the story in an envelope and mail it out like with stamp like our parents did and like you wait for uh a rejection to come if it don't come,
(03:24):
you know,
just after years of that,
I just figured it wasn't for me.
Um And so just didn't do it,
went off to school,
et cetera.
And then,
uh I actually wrote a script one time.
Uh I did a lot of screenwriting again.
Nothing ever got made,
but I wrote a script and some guys at a bar,
I was at where filmmakers looking for a script and then once that got made,
(03:48):
I just couldn't stop,
you know,
if you watch your,
you know,
watch your own thing,
get made and started writing stories again and then books and then the podcast.
And Hurrah,
here we are now,
how is writing a screenplay different from writing fiction?
And are you still writing screenplays?
I,
I do sometimes I don't do it as much.
(04:08):
There was,
uh,
I think,
you know,
over the last 10 years it's gone up and down.
I found a little niche market writing scripts for actors and actresses that wanted to do a web series or something.
So I had a lot of work done in Atlanta and it was fun.
The biggest difference between writing scripts and um and fiction is I don't have to write all that internal stuff.
(04:31):
You know,
it's just all straight dialogue,
which is a lot of fun.
So sometimes when I'm stuck writing a book,
I'll write the scene out as a script so I can get all the action and dialogue down and then try to read,
conceive it as something that will be interesting on a,
on a page.
So just a side note,
totally unrelated to our topic here.
But do you as a screenwriter or scriptwriter,
(04:54):
input what you think the character should be feeling here or is that totally up to the director?
I try to leave as much up to the director as possible because directors are just as,
uh uh if not more of narcissists and control freaks than actors are.
So you want them to feel,
(05:15):
no,
you want them to,
like,
take the work and make it their own.
So,
if they,
you know,
it's not often it's not that it's not uncommon for them to reach out to me and ask me for clarification or for motivation or something.
But you try to leave as much to happen in their head as possible because once they start seeing it and once they start making it their own,
(05:37):
they're more likely to use it.
That was interesting.
I just had did a recording for a podcast the other day with Marjorie mccowan who had her first book released recently.
Um,
and she was a costume designer in Hollywood for 30 years.
So,
got to hear all about,
yeah,
that life and just the life of movie making and she talked a bit about directors and that bit of narcissism.
(06:01):
So it's interesting.
Yeah,
it takes a special,
it takes a special breed of narcissist to direct.
I've directed three things by the way.
Well,
it's,
yeah,
it's an interesting life.
Ok.
Let's jump into our topic which is kind of loosely,
um,
ripped from the headlines topics and how that impacts your plot.
(06:25):
I myself use a lot of rip from the headlines topics for my plots that I,
you know,
meld together or,
you know,
take a nugget from and then evolve into something.
Um,
but,
you know,
definitely I've used the Carry Stayner murder of the Yosemite murders back in the nineties uh he killed a mother and two girls and he hid out at a nudist resort actually nearby where we lived at the time in California.
(06:52):
And that's where he was captured.
And,
you know,
25 years later,
that became a plot in one of my first series.
So,
you know,
it's funny how things,
yeah.
Circle around and Dorothea Puente also in Sacramento that the um landlady killer who killed people for their social security checks and whatnot.
(07:12):
Anyway.
Um,
so you along with a couple of other people did an investigative true crime podcast called The Long Dance.
And I'm just gonna read about that first and then we can talk about um,
how that,
what that process was like,
how that impacted your character Jess in something bad wrong,
who is a true crime podcaster as well.
(07:33):
And then just kind of go from there.
So the Long Dance,
which you can find anywhere correct.
I listen to it on Apple on February 12th,
1971 in Durham,
North Carolina,
a 20 year old nursing student and her 19 year old boyfriend left a Valentine's dance to park down a secluded lover's lane.
They never returned.
Two weeks later,
(07:53):
their bodies were found deep within the Carolina pines.
They had been strangled,
tortured and murdered.
Their murders have never been solved.
The Long Dance is the story of the lives touched by the murders of Patricia Mann and Jesse mcbain,
produced by crime fiction author Eric Pruitt,
investigative reporter Drew Aime and sound engineer Piper Kessler.
(08:14):
It uses recorded interviews to tell the tragic tale of North Carolina's most baffling murder your case.
The eight part true crime podcast with perfect for fans of serial and S town,
both of which I listened to as well and I absolutely agree.
It's a fascinating story.
Y'all did a great job and thank you so much and telling it.
So.
Yeah,
tell me about how that came about.
(08:35):
I had never,
I,
I'm fairly new,
you know,
five years in North Carolina.
Um,
so I hadn't heard of it,
but how did you come upon this true crime?
Well,
I,
uh,
I lived like,
where I lived was right in the middle of where they had been kidnapped in 1971 abducted and then where they were found,
like where they were found.
(08:56):
If you're familiar with the area here,
like,
if you have ever gone swimming in the quarry,
you know,
you'll be passing by where,
uh,
they were,
their bodies were found.
And if you've ever been over to like Crosdale golf course,
that's,
you know,
what's now the golf course used to be where all the kids would go and make out.
So that was,
I lived at the time right between those two spots and the,
(09:19):
um,
an investigative journalist named Drew Adamec came to town and he,
his wife,
uh,
moved around a lot.
I forget what it was.
She did for a living.
But she moved around a lot and everywhere he moved he would try to get involved in like the lo,
you know,
he was a journalist,
he get involved in like the local journalism.
So he,
he had just read an article that I had written for the Indie,
(09:39):
a free paper out here and came to meet me at my bar to ask if I wanted to team up with him on a long form piece.
And his assignment was,
we'll go home,
we will each look up three stories.
And then a week later we meet for coffee and we pitch each other the three stories and we'd see which one was best.
(10:01):
And so when I came home and started kind of looking around like local stories that,
uh you know,
would,
you know,
would pique my curiosity.
I found that one and then I just couldn't find any other one.
So I it was better than that.
So I basically came to him with that one and kind of told him I was like,
I don't know what your three stories are,
but this one is the one right here.
(10:21):
This one,
the thing that was most intriguing about it besides like what she said that these uh these two people left the Valentine's dance and were went missing for two weeks until their bodies were found.
Was that basically,
that was all there was about it.
You know,
50 years,
nearly 50 years had passed.
There was no further information about it at all.
(10:43):
Uh,
they,
there was no suspects listed.
There was no,
you know,
just every once in a while the cops would,
would offer a reward and that was,
that was it.
So,
I figured anything that we found out or anything that we said about it would be more than had ever really been said about it,
which made it kind of easy.
I had no idea that we were gonna spend the next 2.5 years on what turned out to be like a borderline obsession for me.
(11:09):
Um It was the first thing I thought about every night when I went to bed.
It was the first thing I thought about every morning when I woke up.
I missed a lot of dinners because I'd start looking at something and my wife would be in the other room cooking and then three hours later,
you know,
I come out and my plate's cold or whatever.
I just got absolutely obsessed.
And,
um,
and so when you were,
(11:32):
I'm just gonna kind of jump back and forth.
I think when you were creating Jess as your protagonist for this new series,
did you infuse her with a lot of those same traits that obsession,
you know,
did you try and make her different from how you process that True Crime podcast?
And what,
what was,
how did your experience with that influence?
(11:54):
How you wrote her and the investigation that she undergoes.
One thing I wanted to have Jess go through that was similar to my experience was that like,
how deep you get into it and you don't pay attention to,
like,
basically how naive you are,
you know,
like just get in the story is so important that there's like even a moment where they are almost in danger.
(12:21):
Uh There's a couple of moments where they walk like into straight up danger.
Uh,
that happened a couple of times,
but you're like,
so focused on getting the story that you don't realize until you know,
you're driving away that,
oh my God,
we were close.
Um,
we are close to really being in some trouble there.
I felt that definitely listening to the podcast thinking that,
(12:42):
wow,
you just barge in and that guy could be a murderer,
you know.
Oh,
yeah.
There,
there,
there is a moment in the story where that,
um,
where they go to interview someone and there is a cage that really happened in real life.
We drew and I,
yeah,
we went to coffee and we were talking about how we couldn't meet.
(13:02):
Uh,
we couldn't get this one guy to answer the phone.
We couldn't get him to talk to us.
And we said,
uh,
well,
let's just go drive down here.
It's in Greensboro.
So let's just go drive and meet him and we go and talk to him.
He's very hostile.
And he's very angry that we're bringing up this old event and then finally agrees to let us inside.
And when we go inside his house,
he's behind us.
(13:23):
The first thing I see when I walk into his living room was that there was no furniture anywhere,
there was plastic on the ground and there was a 6 ft tall cage in the middle of the room.
And the next thing I hear is the door locking behind me.
And right then like my stomach went,
my heart went down into my stomach and I was like,
(13:44):
we didn't tell anybody where we were going.
Um How long am I gonna be in that cage with Drew?
You know,
before my wife or the detective we were working with puts it together where we are if they do it all and it turned out to be nothing.
Uh We never really found out what was up by the cage.
He had a lot of cats.
So I think that's like where he put his cats.
(14:05):
Um But,
uh,
but yeah,
never really found out what was,
that's not your typical,
you know,
cat owner behavior though.
Big 6 ft tall cage.
There was nothing typical about this man.
Um There was nothing typical whatsoever and when we told the detective that we went and talked to him,
he was like that guy's character,
isn't he?
I was like,
dude,
say the least.
(14:26):
Yeah,
that's frightening.
And I can,
I can I get a visceral reaction to that thinking,
oh my God.
I can't even imagine you put yourself in that position.
We did also interview the number one suspect.
Um,
he was a doctor in Durham for 50 years and the police couldn't really get him to talk.
(14:48):
The media never really got him to talk.
And then,
uh,
we went and had an interview with him and,
uh,
I had five listening devices and a hidden camera on me.
And we use the,
we use the,
um we used the audio for that in the podcast as well.
Is that legal to do here in North Carolina?
(15:08):
We are a one party state.
Ok,
because I believe in Texas,
you're not,
I think you have to have two party consent,
right?
Yeah.
Some states,
you know,
like,
uh some of the states around DC because they don't want you,
you know,
because all the politicians there.
But yeah,
this one here,
uh it was OK.
Interesting.
(15:29):
Uh All right.
So let me read the blurb about something bad wrong.
I love that title also,
which came as I recall,
one of the characters in the podcast said that and that's where it was pulled from.
Right.
Yes.
That's exactly right.
It was a nurse that we interviewed and I remember her line was when she was talking about how,
(15:50):
when they didn't show up,
uh when the couple didn't show up the next day,
that's what she said.
That's when I knew that something was wrong,
that something had gone wrong,
something bad wrong.
And that just rang in my ears.
Yeah.
All right.
So about something bad wrong to catch the killer who eluded her detective grandfather 50 years ago,
(16:10):
a true crime podcaster must contend with outdated evidence,
ulterior motives and the dark family secrets that got in the way.
True crime podcaster.
Jess Keillor has returned to Dayton County,
North Carolina to pick up where her grandfather left off.
Sheriff's deputy Big Jim Ballard.
Her grandfather was a respected detective until it all came crashing down during a 1972 murder investigation for Jim solving the murders of two teens should have been the highlight of his already storied career.
(16:38):
Instead,
he battled his own mind unsure where his hunches ended and the truth began working from her grandfather's disjointed notes.
Jess is sure that she can finally put the cold case and her family's shame to rest enlisting the help of disgraced reporter Dan Decker.
Jess soon discovers ugly truths about the first investigation which was shaped by corruption egos and a family secret that may be the key to the crime told in the dual timeline that covers both investigations.
(17:05):
Something bad wrong explores human folly hubris and has sometimes to solve a crime.
You have to find out who's covering it up.
That sounds like a party.
I know that's,
it's so compelling.
So at what point did you make the decision to take everything that had become part of the Long dance and turn it into this book or use it,
(17:28):
not turn it into this book,
but use it to,
you know,
influence the plot of this book,
I guess.
Well,
it took 2.5 years to do that podcast and a lot of that was periods of time where we were waiting for access to something because the law enforcement would not talk to us for six months.
They said they don't,
uh,
they said it was an active,
(17:49):
it was may not be an active investigation,
but it wasn't closed and they don't talk to journalists about open investigations.
And so they had shut us down.
So we spent like six months getting our own information,
everything we could.
And then we went back to them and said,
this is what we have,
this is who I think did it.
This is why.
And it turned out we had more information or we had some information that they didn't have.
(18:13):
And so the detective realized that by working with us,
uh,
you know,
we,
we have resources that they didn't have,
which was basically time,
you know,
they're working on current crimes if they worked with us,
you know,
they could still have control of the investigation.
So,
but that was six months where we thought we may not have anything,
you know.
So,
(18:34):
uh,
or there was like when we were trying to approach the suspect,
you know,
without the suspect's voice,
it was going to be very difficult to do anything.
So there were so many periods where it was like this may not happen and,
but the story was so compelling and there were so many gaps in the story that my brain just naturally fills in the gaps with fiction.
(18:54):
And I spent a lot of time with the investigator.
Uh,
Captain Tim Horn became Major Tim Horn of the Orange County Sheriff's office.
And we would go like on long drives to different,
um,
suspects or different uh leads,
follow different leads.
And we would always say things like,
you know,
it was often him saying this would make a great movie,
(19:17):
this would make a great book,
you know,
who would believe this.
If this was actually in a movie,
people would think we're making this up.
Um And even the uh victims,
a relative,
uh who also,
you know,
refused this access in the beginning,
but eventually gave us access and her name is Carolyn.
(19:37):
And by the way,
the book is dedicated to Tim and Carolyn because for so many times,
we were like,
can you imagine if this was a movie?
Can you imagine if this was a book?
And so we had said that forever and unfortunately,
real life,
unlike fiction,
you don't always get and ending,
you know,
or even,
you know,
not to mention the ending you want,
but you sometimes don't even get an ending.
(19:58):
There is no such thing as closure.
There's not a thing where it's just going,
you know,
there's no,
there's not a perfect ending.
And so it was kind of a gift I was giving to them.
Uh I remember when I got my advanced reader copies,
I asked them to dinner and I didn't tell him I had been working on this book and so I knew they were either going to be happy or they were going to be angry.
(20:22):
Uh So I took them to dinner and at the end of dinner,
you know,
once again,
the conversation always goes to,
oh man,
where do you think he is now talking about the suspect?
What?
You know,
I wish we could have done this.
I just wish I wish this would have happened.
And so then I told them I was like,
hey,
you know,
speaking of,
you know,
we've always said that we wanted some kind of ending.
We didn't get the ending we want.
(20:43):
I'm hoping that this does something I gave him the copies of the book.
So we're dedicated to them and they were not angry.
They were,
I remember Carolyn read it over a weekend and I was getting texts all weekend long about actually,
I just read chapter four and blah,
blah,
blah.
You know,
I just read chapter seven.
I can't believe you,
you know.
Uh So that was cool.
Tim,
the investigator read it much more slowly.
(21:06):
And uh he was very specific in his notes as well.
So it was,
it was a great experience.
Yeah,
I can imagine.
And,
and I can imagine the,
even though it's not really closure,
which I know is such a cliche word,
but that's something you didn't get with the actual investigation.
I mean,
(21:26):
the case is still unsolved technically.
Right.
It is.
Yeah.
So to,
to be able to have closure and bring to justice the person you feel 99% sure did.
It has got to be somewhat gratifying for you who spent so much time investigating,
but also for them who were so closely connected,
(21:48):
you know,
the aunt,
but then also the major,
you know,
the time that he spent and having the boxes in the corner and everything,
I mean,
just never letting it go.
Oh yeah,
he,
you know,
I could call him right now,
which I,
I probably will do when we're done.
Uh because I had spoken to him in a minute,
but I could call him right now,
no matter what we talk about that will end up coming up,
(22:10):
you know,
and it's all,
it's,
and,
you know,
I think it was recently in the news that,
you know,
Orange County just solved another cold case,
you know.
Uh uh I think yesterday they announced that they had solved the identity of a missing of a dead woman that they found in 1990.
They finally put her together.
And,
uh,
Tim Horn had done the same thing with a young boy that he found,
(22:34):
you know,
they found that his remains in 1998 and right before he left in 2019,
he solved that case.
So he had,
he,
he,
he had three big cases and two of them he put away and he always talks about this one is the one that,
you know,
still bugs him.
Yeah.
Uh,
I mean,
the lack of communication between the different counties and law enforcement agencies and SB I and all of that to me,
(23:01):
that was just,
I mean,
you know,
that these things happen,
right?
But when it's so close to home and,
you know,
you're so invested in it,
it's just so disturbing and disheartening that they couldn't get their act together to work together.
It is,
it is,
uh,
it's different now,
even while I was riding around with Tim,
(23:22):
it was,
you know,
and we,
and we,
and I'm studying on this situation where these departments would not speak with each other and these jurisdictions were always battling while I'm on these rides with him.
He would get texts from a Durham homicide detective asking for some information and they'd just be texting back and forth.
But,
you know,
like 50 years ago,
they didn't have text,
(23:42):
uh,
they didn't even really one story I heard that was,
uh,
amazing to me.
But like in the seventies in Chapel Hill,
they had what was called Coke bottle dispatch where you were required while you were on patrol as a Chapel Hill police officer to drive past the station.
(24:02):
And if the window of the station was propped open with a coke bottle,
that meant they needed you to check in so they could send you somewhere.
They didn't have radios,
they weren't radioing people out.
You had to drive by,
see if the coke bottle was propped up on the window sill and they call it coke bottle dispatch.
So if you're ever talking to an old Chapel Hill cop mention the mention the coke bottle dispatch and watch them,
(24:23):
watch,
watch your faces light up.
That's crazy.
Those are the things that you put the details you put in a book and people are going,
what that can't possibly think you're lying,
you're lying.
Yeah,
that's wild.
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has it all enroll now and get ready to feel confident and prepared to write the novel that you've been planning the obstacles that you faced in investigating the murders of uh Jesse mcbain and Patricia Mann.
(25:44):
Did,
did you have Jess face the same obstacles,
you know,
did you create other obstacles for her that you didn't face?
How much of your experience really ended up being her experience?
Well,
I didn't have to put up with a pervy handsy canceled news anchorman like I just did.
(26:04):
Uh,
uh Dan Decker was one of my favorite characters.
I had written,
uh,
a lot of him got taken out,
uh,
you know,
in the,
you know,
throughout the editing processes because he was just,
he was too much.
Uh And so,
well,
I didn't have to put up with that,
but sometimes there is the frustration that you'll go through.
Like when you,
you know,
everything is everything just takes so much time.
(26:26):
It took forever to get the cops to open up to us.
It took forever to get the,
the,
the,
the family to,
to,
to trust us.
Uh We couldn't get any nurses to talk to us until,
you know,
they,
they were given the green light from the family.
And then once they did,
you couldn't get them to stop you know,
uh,
they were,
they were really,
they were,
uh,
they really wanted it solved but they were tired of,
(26:48):
you know,
every once in a while some news reporter would come around on an anniversary or something and start digging it up and,
and bothering them.
So they didn't want that to happen.
Um,
you know,
so that was,
that was the hardest part,
was all the waiting and getting people to open up and trust you.
And then once things started falling,
at some point,
(27:09):
it feels like they're falling too fast.
How is the,
the plotting pro I mean,
I,
I imagine the plotting process for the True Crime podcast was somewhat similar,
but maybe even more difficult than plotting a novel because you have all of this different information that you're trying to piece together as the investigator,
right?
And in,
(27:29):
in the novel,
I guess you had the information based on the podcast.
But,
you know,
when you're crafting a novel,
you get to make stuff up and make it fit,
you know.
So how,
what is that plotting process like for all of the information that you and drew gathered during this 2.5 year period?
That um that's some of the work.
(27:49):
I am most proud of the,
where I'm most proud of the work because it was,
it was a lot and you have to figure out how to take this information.
And like I said,
it's,
it's too much information in some areas and in some areas it's not enough.
And so how can I take this information and deliver it to you in a way that's interesting and informative and true.
(28:13):
You know,
and I'm talking about the podcast and so I have some photos or some videos of like what my office looked like and there would be,
you know,
all up around the wall,
there would be things stacked up and taped and then on the couch and then on the floor and there were sometimes where I'd have to close my doors to no cat or my wife doesn't come in and mess anything up because these things were in an order and it looked like absolute chaos.
(28:39):
But I could turn around and tell you exactly where one scrap of paper is where I had written something that's important and I had to take all of that and put it into,
uh,
you know,
a less than 60 minute,
uh,
you know,
bite size pieces.
Um,
so of everything I've ever written in my entire life,
(29:00):
you know,
if someone had read everything and said this is my favorite where someone says this is my,
my favorite thing I have ever written in my entire life is episode two of the Long Dance because that was so much information you had so many investigations that I had to give you this,
I had to catch you up on to everything in 60 minutes and it was hard.
(29:26):
It was extremely difficult,
but it was one of those things where you feel like you're working and the work is,
and then when it's done you were like,
you know,
it's not coal mining,
but still,
I was like,
wow.
And I,
every once in a while I'll go back and look at the notes,
you know,
when I'm having trouble organizing something and just try to get back into the spirit where I was that I was in,
(29:46):
when I was doing episode two.
As far as the book goes,
you know,
it,
the hardest part was taking things out because I was trying,
you know,
I was trying to put everything my,
all my experiences in there and,
you know,
my agent,
my editors,
everyone was like,
you know,
it's too much,
it's too much.
You need to slim this down a little and I think we still rolled in like 400 something pages,
(30:09):
but it was longer.
It was longer.
Yeah.
Well,
I mean,
that's quite a story to tell.
So,
did you have the same note system up on your walls and everything while you were writing the book or was it so much internalized by that point that your,
your,
um,
you know,
your story arc and your notes were much more confined?
(30:29):
No,
I have a,
I think it's no,
it's in the other room.
I had a box that just papers would just end up going into,
um,
I did,
I did,
I did a lot of work,
but a majority of it,
by that point had been internalized,
like all that information has just been like burned into my brain that it was all,
(30:49):
it was pretty easy to keep straight,
uh yellow notepads,
you know,
I had like three or four of these yellow notepads with all the information and I can call it back up,
but it was nowhere near as detailed because,
you know,
with the podcast,
we were,
we were dealing strictly with truth,
you know,
and I want to make sure that everything is,
is true and,
(31:10):
you know,
I don't want to get sued for saying the wrong thing,
right?
Were you worried about that in terms of taking things from real life and putting it into your fiction book?
Were you worried that somebody would recognize themselves and you know,
that there are reliability issues or anything like that?
No,
because it was,
it is like 100% fiction.
(31:31):
So,
you know,
there,
there may be like in real life a moment that is mirrored.
Um But none of the people the people were,
were really,
you know,
because I think that even disappointed the um you know,
the Investigator Tim Horn because he was like,
which character am I?
And I'm like,
well,
you know,
(31:52):
make a character uh based on you,
but there were characters that said things that he has said to me.
So,
um so Yeah,
they're all fiction and I am almost saying that as a disclaimer.
Yeah.
I know.
I took,
uh,
we had a terrible experience one time when we were living somewhere in an undisclosed state and I,
(32:15):
I tell you I killed off this person in a book.
I changed her name but I actually,
it's an anagram for her name and it was very gratifying,
you know,
to be able to get justice in fiction that we couldn't get in real life.
And actually I had another kind of recently and it's going into a current book.
Yeah.
So that is,
(32:35):
you have to,
it's a fine line,
right?
You,
you're creating these composite characters that can't mirror somebody directly.
And I think,
you know,
they,
they take on a personality,
a life of their own in fiction anyway,
you know,
they can't be completely somebody from real life but,
you know,
definitely bits and pieces and that can be really gratifying.
Have you ever heard the,
(32:56):
and I forget the author that did this,
but a quick Google search will do it.
But do you,
have you ever figured,
have you ever heard the way that they say to get out of getting sued for basing a fiction character?
You know,
if it's a man,
give him a small genitalia,
it's called the small penis defense.
(33:17):
And if you give the character small genitalia and he wants to take you to court,
that's the question they say.
So this character is based on you.
That must mean you have and right then no one will take you to court.
So,
like,
that's,
that's,
uh,
I forget the author.
But if you Google it,
it will come,
it will come up.
But that,
that's his rule.
That's funny.
(33:37):
Yeah.
Not something that comes up in the cozy mysteries and lighthearted Happy Murders that I write.
But yet,
so,
um,
tell me about your first book and that's very different from this book based on the podcast,
correct?
Um,
are you talking the first one?
Like dirt bags?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
(33:58):
Um,
yeah,
that one's about a guy who isn't good at anything and decides to be,
uh,
it's a dark comedy.
He decides he's going to be a killer,
uh,
a serial killer because he's not good at anything else.
And,
uh,
he is hired by a man who wants to kill his ex-wife to have his ex wife killed quietly.
(34:20):
But our dumb main character can't do anything quietly.
So,
and then hilarity ensues.
It's a family story takes place in Texas,
right?
Uh,
there's part of it in Texas,
part of it in Texas.
Uh,
uh,
and,
uh,
yeah,
that one was,
that one is the first one that was,
uh,
there was a lot of fun.
I,
(34:40):
but purely fictional was that not based on any particular person that you knew that or had read about that wanted to be a serial killer.
I will plead the fifth.
Um,
no,
it's,
uh,
yeah,
it's,
it's fiction,
it's fiction and it's just,
it's just,
it's just a dark comedy.
I is my favorite book that I've written because it's just so lean and mean,
(35:02):
I was reading a lot of Jim Thompson at the time,
so I wanted to write my own Jim Thompson book.
And,
uh,
so,
yeah,
it's a little lean me,
I don't think I could turn anything in and under 70,000 words ever again.
But so it was a,
that's a fun one.
So uh Blood Red Summer comes out in May.
Can you tell us anything about the plot of that?
And is it also based on a true crime?
(35:22):
It is we'll be following Jess Keillor once again.
Uh She uh is now moved on to a documentary series.
Uh So like uh so it'll be like film.
Uh So she's working with a small film crew to solve a crime.
And uh the,
it's based on some experiences I had briefly working with a film crew on the Long Dance.
(35:49):
Uh I got out of that situation as quickly as possible in Lake Caster,
the same community that,
that uh where something bad wrong takes place.
There was a both a grizzly murder uh of three bootleggers and there were also a series of and there was also a sniper targeting the black community in Lake Caster and both crimes after 50 years have been uh not 50 40 years take place,
(36:18):
those take place in the eighties as opposed to the seventies,
those are unsolved and just starts uh to,
to investigate it this true crime documentary series.
And so that's based on some,
some crime,
unsolved crime that you happened to pawn.
Yeah,
in Durham,
uh there were some bootleggers murdered in 1976 and not a lot of people know this,
(36:44):
but there actually was a sniper and uh that was targeting people in the Black Party Durham,
uh the same year and uh they did arrest a man for the crime,
but no one really believes he did it.
(37:04):
And so it's the more and more you look into that story,
the more interesting it is.
But you can't get,
you know,
it's very hard to get information on it.
So,
so,
so you and Drew,
you're not going to tackle this in a podcast yourself.
No,
I actually start,
(37:24):
you know,
I was looking for a season two of the Long Dance and I began investigating the Bootlegger murders.
Um I did speak with a detective,
uh who would not want me to name him.
I did speak with a detective and he warned me about staying away from this story and I told him that's not the way to get me to,
(37:50):
to leave things alone.
Now,
you're making it more interesting.
And he pointed out that,
you know,
this would not be an 80 year old doctor that we are pursuing this time around.
This is an organization,
the,
the the people responsible for it is an organization that's very much still alive and around in Durham and the area and that they would be,
(38:14):
they would not be happy that I would be looking into this.
And at the time that didn't really put me off of it either.
So I continued to look.
But one thing he had told me is he is like at some point when you're asking all these people questions,
you're going to be talking to a person that is going to be talking to a lot of people and you're not going to be able to put that toothpaste back into the tube.
(38:36):
And uh I kept going and one day I had an incident on the highway going up 70 you know,
it's like 11 lane both ways and I'm going up 70 I had two cars behind me.
One was just a beat up old pickup truck and the other was a beat up four door and the four door came around,
(38:56):
got up in front of me and then they kind of boxed me in.
And in that moment,
I was like,
uh,
oh,
you know,
I think this is,
this is,
this is how this is how it happens.
And yeah,
it turned out to be nothing.
But right then,
uh you know,
I had a talk with my wife and I was just like,
you know,
I just laid all the steaks out on the table and I was like,
(39:17):
you know,
this organization is still around,
uh,
you know,
I,
I try to be cagey but like,
it's,
let's just say it's an organization that likes to ride motorcycles,
an organization of a motorcycle enthusiast.
Uh,
they're still around,
they have,
you know,
a history of violence and they don't play by it,
you know,
gentleman's rules and,
(39:38):
uh,
you know,
I didn't make a lot of money off the long dance.
You know,
I think people like to hear that but it's,
you know,
that there's a,
there's a truth to that,
like how much there actually is to be made.
So I talked to my agent and it would just be like,
you know,
if I'm going to get myself in trouble,
you know,
what am I getting myself in trouble for?
And,
uh,
you know,
after the discussion with the wife and everything,
(39:59):
we just made the decision,
we're like,
you know,
what,
maybe we should leave that alone and it's a heartbreaker,
uh,
because I had a lot of information on it.
But,
uh,
it is.
So that's when you just kind of change the things and take a compelling story and make a fiction,
it's a lot safer.
Yeah,
definitely.
(40:20):
As a writer,
how do you like that process versus having sort of the story laid out that you can pull bits and pieces from and mold into your own but you,
you know,
you have sort of a,
a purpose in mind because you're wanting to bring justice to this versus not necessarily having all of that information.
Well,
I mean,
ideally I would like to be able to communicate everything as it happened,
(40:41):
you know.
Uh,
but,
you know,
at the end of the day and it's something that somebody reminded me because there were some things that,
like when we were,
you know,
editing something bad wrong,
there were some things I didn't want taken out because it reflected my experiences as an investigator.
But uh but in the end,
you know,
in the end,
our job,
(41:02):
when you're writing fiction is to entertain,
you know,
our job is to entertain people.
And so,
you know,
that's,
that's it.
You never let that.
I have a sign right up here on my uh bulletin board.
It says,
never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Um Firmly believe that,
you know,
if I'm sitting at the bar or if I'm writing a book,
(41:23):
never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
That's a good motto.
Um All right.
So if you were to give tips,
you know,
the writers Bike podcast is greatly geared towards aspiring writers,
new writers,
people who want to,
you know,
reignite that spark that sometimes fades if you were to give some tips to the listeners about,
(41:44):
you know,
how to approach taking something from real life and turning it into a fictionalized story.
What,
what would you say?
Well,
like if you're looking at the story,
there's a moment in there that makes you want to know more.
You know,
I could,
you know,
so many people will come up and try to tell you a story and you just had no curiosity.
(42:07):
You don't really care if you ever hear the end of this or anymore and you wish they'd stop talking,
you know,
like,
but then there are people that can tell a story in a way that like you'll be asking and then what happened and then what happened?
Well,
what about this?
And that's what you want to capture.
You know,
you could say,
you know,
two young people left the Valentine's dance and this is the last time anybody saw him until two weeks later,
(42:31):
their bodies turned up,
you know,
you say that simple sentence and someone will ask more and they'll ask more and then they want to know more until you know,
onion just gets,
you know,
unraveled.
Um So that's what I would suggest is you take a look at the story,
find the places that make you want to know more and present it in that way so that people are constantly curious and the only way they can satisfy their curiosity is to keep reading and keep listening to you tell this story.
(43:01):
Yeah,
that's interesting.
I I have a um I think if I'm not interested in my plot,
nobody else is gonna be interested.
And that's when I know that there's something wrong.
But one time I was at the airport and my,
I got a call from my editor saying the plot of the book that I was just about to start writing was a tiny bit similar and that it had a reality TV show concept um to another book by the same publisher that was going to come out before mine was scheduled to come out.
(43:29):
The plots were totally different.
The only similarity was this reality TV show.
So she's like we want to push that to your next book and have something else for this book,
you know,
can you do that?
And I was thinking,
OK,
I mean,
yes,
I can do that obviously.
But inside I'm thinking,
oh man,
I don't have another plot.
I was super excited about this one.
I'm looking at the TV,
in the airport and it's just,
(43:50):
you know,
silent,
but there's clothes captioning on and it's about a news.
It's a story about a funeral home director that was being investigated for uh selling body parts on the black market essentially.
And I was just captivated by that.
I thought,
oh my God,
that could be my story right there.
(44:11):
How can I turn that into a story in a cozy mystery happy murder book?
You know,
uh it ended up being quite a bit darker than a lot of my other books,
but it was too good to pass up because like you said,
it just made me have all of these questions.
What are the regulations?
How could somebody possibly do that?
How would that even happen?
And it's those questions that made me keep going and pursuing and investigating and ultimately writing that book which is flower in the attic.
(44:39):
Um And,
and I love it.
I'm really proud of it like you are because I,
I feel like I took something,
I enlightened people.
It's more than just a book,
you know,
with the story.
I feel like I tackled something a little bit bigger.
Oh,
yeah.
Abso,
absolutely.
I,
I,
I think that is the most important thing you anyone can ever give you is their attention and you know,
(45:03):
it would be criminal to waste it.
Yeah.
Well,
Eric,
it's been great talking to you.
I love Long Dance.
It was such a great podcast.
Um Something bad wrong.
I just love that title and I think the book is captivating and especially because I have also listened to the podcast.
So everybody listening out there,
(45:23):
the links for the book,
but also the podcast are in the show notes.
And I highly encourage you to go listen to that podcast because it's really,
really interesting.
The Long Dance with Eric Pruitt.
Tell us real briefly.
What is next for you?
Blood Red Summer.
Yes,
that comes out in May.
Uh I have been asked by the publisher to talk to them about a book three to wrap things up for Jess Keilar.
(45:51):
I am mulling that over.
Um But in the meantime,
I've got another little thing,
I'm,
I'm uh working on at the moment.
Uh If you find yourself in Hillsboro,
of course,
October 26th,
we're doing an Noire at the bar which is eight readers coming out to perform the work.
So please stop in and speaking of we have a uh crime fiction literary journal that we published through Yonder called Dark Yonder.
(46:17):
It's published uh by Thalia Press uh with Katie Munger and myself as the co editors and our fourth issue,
we just put it to bed so it should be out like the beginning of November.
Ok,
great.
And the links for all of that will be in the show notes as well as well as information about Yonder,
which is a really fun place to be Noir at the Bar is a great event.
(46:40):
I love it.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you so very much.
Well,
thank you again for being here,
Eric,
really appreciate it such a fascinating conversation and,
and again,
I just love what you did with both the podcast and the book.
Thank you very much,
man.
I am super,
super stoked that you asked me.
Yeah.
Well,
I appreciate you saying.
Yes.
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
(47:03):
Everyone.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot writers spark academy dot com.
Check out our courses,
our resources and all the content there and I will see you next time until then.
(47:24):
Happy writing.
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