August 9, 2023 • 58 mins
Episode 31
Whether you call it writer's block or simply getting stuck, the feeling of not being able to keep writing is very real. Certain strategies and tactics can help you get past the wall that sometimes appears and interferes with your forward progress.
Today I'm in conversation with author Anne Louise Bannon, author of the Operation Quickline, the Old Los Angeles series and the brand new Running from Boston techno-thriller. Anne offers several strategies to help work past that sense of writer's block to keep you moving forward with your writing.
Thanks for tuning in to The WriterSpark Podcast!
A QUICK LOOK AT BOOKS and COURSES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
- Ready, Set, WRITE! (How to write a novel course) (https://writersparkwritingacademy.teachable.com/p/30-day-intensive-in-fiction-writing)
- Anne Louise Bannon's Books on Amazon (https://amzn.to/3Y2r4kZ)
-
Scrivener(https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview)
-
Aeon Timeline (https://timeline.app/)
Get updates on business, creativity, and the craft of writing by following this podcast and subscribe to the WriterSpark newsletter (https://writersparkacademy.com/newslettersignup/)
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Resources
- WriterSpark Website: http://writersparkacademy.com
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- Visit Anne’s Website: https://annelouisebannon.com/
- Grab WriterSpark Swag! https://www.teepublic.com/stores/writerspark/share
- Learn more about the host, Melissa Bourbon: http://melissabourbon.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It depends on,
I think what your perspective is and why you're writing.
And,
you know,
there are people out there with that rapid release formula that are just pumping them out.
And then there are the people that have one or two good books in them for the entire career.
And I feel like you and I it sounds like are at the very same or similar place somewhere in the middle of that where we're writing meaty things that fit within genre fiction,
(00:25):
you know,
but,
but there is some depth to them.
There is,
there are character arcs,
there is,
you know,
a strong themes and important themes that we're tackling what entertains people entertains people and that's what we're doing.
Hello.
Hello,
I'm Melissa Bourbon.
And this is the writer spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
(00:50):
Welcome.
15 years ago,
I was an avid reader but not a writer.
I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,
but I had dream to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
Now,
I'm a number one,
Amazon and national bestselling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.
(01:23):
I'm an ordinary person,
a wife,
a mom,
a daughter,
a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through writer Spark.
I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
I'm here as your partner,
as you navigate your own writing journey.
I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.
(01:50):
Welcome to the Rider Spark podcast.
I am so glad to have my guest with me today,
Anne Louise Bannon.
Welcome to the Writer Spark podcast.
Yeah.
Hey,
well,
thank you for having me,
Melissa.
I'm just thrilled to death to be talking to you and it's,
(02:13):
it,
it's always fun to do podcasts and this one looks sounds like it's gonna be a blast so well.
Good.
So our,
our main focus is really geared towards aspiring writers,
new writers and writers who want to,
you know,
revisit craft topics or home their craft or just get remotivated.
So that's um kind of what we're gonna talk about.
We have our topic all lined up about releasing your creativity and how to write when you maybe don't feel like it.
(02:40):
But before we get to that,
let's hear a little bit about your origin story.
How did you get started with writing?
And you are very prolific.
You have several different series and you have a book that just came out too.
So take it away.
I'm really excited about running away to Boston because it's really different for me.
But as far as how I got started,
(03:02):
well,
imagine a moody 15 year old kid who would rather spend all her time daydreaming and hanging out with the people in her head than maybe even real people.
And you've got me and my mom,
God bless her.
She's,
she really,
really wanted me to,
uh,
(03:22):
you know,
not just dream,
she wanted me to be out there.
So I figured,
well,
how do I get away with daydreaming?
I'll write it down.
The next thing I knew I had written my first novel,
which by the way sucked.
It was terrible of novels do.
Right.
Right.
It was the,
(03:42):
no,
it was actually a novelization of,
um,
a fairy tale Cinderella as a matter of fact.
And it sucked.
It just was terrible.
But it got me writing and I didn't write again until much later.
But as the years went by,
I just started writing more and while I was in grad school for my theater degree,
(04:08):
I just,
I started the Operation Quick Line Siren and had to keep that going and,
and,
and it just,
it came out.
So for a very long time,
I was one of those writers that I had to be feeling it.
You know,
I had to be in the mood.
And fortunately for me,
I frequently was,
I had a really bad first marriage which helped but not necessarily recommend it as a,
(04:36):
as a method.
No,
I,
I don't recommend this as a way to get yourself writing.
But it,
and it,
it is kind of funny because I have since upgraded,
shall we say husband 2.3?
He uh uh I,
I got started writing again after a lot of time working in nonfiction as a journalist and he says you're writing again and you're writing all the time.
(04:59):
Should I be worried?
And I said no,
honey,
because I had also done some of the other things I do to get myself writing.
But it was,
and it was a blessing because my,
my husband now he is such a good support to me.
He really is wonderful and gives me a lot.
My ex gave me a lot of room to write to God bless him.
But uh wasn't worth it.
(05:23):
Well,
good for you for finding the great guy that you have now.
Yeah,
I,
I am blessed anyway.
So yes,
I have just put out uh running away to Boston.
It's a tech thriller which is really different for me because I tend to be uh I'm more of a cozy in a historic,
(05:44):
uh,
you know,
or a traditional historical uh mystery writer.
Uh My,
my main flagship series is the old Los Angeles series,
which is set in Los Angeles in the 18 seventies.
Um So it's very unusual for me to be doing something thrilling.
And I'm kind of like,
oh God,
please let it be thrilling.
I think it's thrilling.
(06:05):
It's,
I'm more,
I do more of that sort of thing.
And so to be doing something a little less who done it,
I is very,
very different.
Did it require a lot of research into the tech part?
Because that's so different.
I mean,
you re research into historical but to research sort of into that other side of things.
(06:27):
I mean,
yeah,
I did have to look things up quite a bit.
Um But at the same time I am all right,
compared to most writers,
I'm a total geek.
I'm a told gear compared to most writing people.
I know.
Uh unfortunate.
Uh Fortunately for me,
I also have a lot of friends who,
(06:47):
well,
I'm very close to JP L jet propulsion lamps where NASA has a lot of contracts.
Uh I'm not far from California Institute of Technology at Caltech where Einstein hung out,
you know.
Um I have friends who are put me to shame.
Let's put it this way.
(07:07):
I can't write code.
I've got friends who write it from the ground up,
you know,
and and these guys are really great.
And so I had a couple of my friends,
uh uh three of them,
uh look it over after I was done and they,
they really came up with some great suggestions and one even got a boo boo.
I,
a couple of them caught a couple boo boos.
(07:27):
I made that had nothing to do with tech when they just caught the,
the,
the flat thing.
They were just terrific.
So,
it's,
it was a lot of fun writing because it was,
uh,
a different,
you know,
uh,
it was a very different sort of thing for me to do.
So I had a,
I,
I have to admit it really helped and we were talking about,
uh,
you know,
(07:48):
unleashing your creativity doing something that I don't normally do really helped to believe it or not.
Yeah,
I,
I believe it and I think that,
you know,
it,
you can do something really well and that can be what you do and you can do it forever or you can do something really well,
(08:09):
but it gets kind of stale and you need to keep pushing or doing something different to excite yourself,
I think.
And that follows into your words,
into the story itself.
And I'm kind of right there with you.
I've kind of moved from those cozy mysteries into more women's fiction with mystery elements and even going more so and with that in my next series.
(08:34):
So it's very invigorating and it's very exciting to,
to do that and to branch out into something new.
And then it's also fun because when you come back to what you've been doing,
you,
you've got a new perspective on it.
Um,
you know,
the Operation Quick Line series,
which is set in the 19 eighties when I originally wrote it,
I hate calling it a historical but it's,
(08:59):
uh,
the,
that it,
I loved it set in that partly because one of the characters,
well,
he gets around a lot and you couldn't have a character do that these days because of AIDS and all.
But,
um,
I'm having to write some new ones because of the way the story,
the story eventually evolved,
(09:19):
especially during the rewrite process because I have rewritten them,
believe me.
And it's,
it's kind of fun to put that aside.
And what I'm working on right now is book three of my time travel trilogy,
which is science fiction and historical also because they go back in time.
But I also have to create future time and that's been a lot of fun.
(09:44):
So it's,
it's,
I mean,
I don't read one type of book.
Why would I write one type of book that's,
you know,
I'm,
I'm eclectic as hell and I'm not gonna pretend I'm a,
so that's me.
Yeah,
same,
same for me.
Uh,
and I'm,
yeah,
I want to write the types of things that I want to read and that's what I write and that happens to be sort of all over the place after my own heart.
(10:11):
So,
I guess in my own project.
So that's good.
Yeah.
Well,
I get so many people who come out and say,
oh,
well,
you've got to focus,
honey.
I am the A DH D poster child.
I haven't focused in 60 odd years.
What makes you think?
I'm gonna suddenly come out and start focusing now for God's sake,
(10:31):
it's not happening that,
um,
ok,
well,
let us launch into our topic which is releasing your creativity,
unleashing your creativity,
especially when you're stuck and,
and writing and continuing to write even when you are stuck.
(10:51):
So,
yeah.
Have there been times in your career when you have gotten stuck,
first of all?
Oh,
yeah.
I mean,
there was a period,
uh,
about two or three years before I left my ex and then,
um,
thank you,
(11:12):
uh,
for almost,
0 15,
almost 20 years.
Uh,
where I was not doing much fiction.
Now I was writing.
Um,
I had gone into,
uh,
I was doing more journalism though.
I had started working at the L A Times.
Uh,
not as a journalist actually as a desk assistant.
(11:34):
But,
uh,
I was writing and they went,
wait a minute,
she can write.
Oh,
God,
yes,
we want her.
And so I did go to journalism school after,
right after I left my ex,
I went to journalism school and,
um,
got my degree there.
So I was writing,
I wasn't working.
I was freelancing a lot for a lot of reasons because this was unfortunately,
(11:57):
right at the time,
newspapers started declining,
going under and that was not a good talk about bad timing on my part.
But,
uh,
but I was doing a lot of freelancing and I'm sorry,
you write when you don't feel like it,
you write because frankly you don't open up a newspaper and see blank space.
(12:18):
And I learned that very,
very early on.
You don't get paid for not writing also.
Right.
Yeah,
there's that,
you know,
that,
that paycheck is really incentivizing.
But that is also when I started when everything else collapsed that way,
which was,
oh,
golly,
uh,
2014,
(12:39):
20 right around 2014,
2016 when everything started really seriously.
I,
I mean,
in 2007,
I lost three major clients in one in,
in a matter of months.
It was really bad and it wasn't because they fired me.
It was because the publications went on.
So that was really tough.
And,
and I mean,
I was a consulting editor for one.
(13:00):
I was like,
I can make a woman get this out.
No,
you can't.
So it came in.
Um,
so,
but I got that into my psyche that you write even when you don't feel like it,
which is a good thing.
Um,
and uh the only other thing that was a big help was the pandemic because I hit,
(13:21):
I hid in my writing and a lot of people say I can't write and,
and I know that and I understand that and I respect that.
I don't want to make anybody feel bad because I'm prolific and they're not,
I think that's,
you know,
the,
the,
the two,
you know,
it's just,
I have a hard time explaining that I'm pro prolific because for a long time when I was first coming up and again,
(13:41):
in the late eighties,
early nineties,
I was attending a lot of writers conferences and you'd get these snobs.
Well,
they're cranking them out 100 cages,
you know,
or you're some,
some uh uh agent said,
well,
I don't want to know about all the 5 20 different novels you wrote.
Uh,
you,
(14:01):
you,
you,
these anal retentive people have written and I'm going,
honey,
if they've got 25 novels,
retentive is not the right word.
But there was this idea that if the more you write,
obviously the worse the writer you are,
right.
It's,
it's that elitism,
(14:22):
right of it being this,
you know,
great American novel versus the genre of fiction that just isn't worth as much.
You're not what entertains people,
entertains people and that's what we're doing.
That's what I'm doing.
I mean,
I don't want,
I don't mind,
but I would love to make my readers think,
but they're not gonna come to my books thinking about it.
(14:45):
Because how do I say this?
You're gonna catch more flies with that kind of honey than you are with.
Well,
you know,
the Great American novel now,
I,
I'm sorry,
I,
I wouldn't read the Great American novel.
Why would I write it?
Yeah,
there's only so much room in the marketplace for that too.
You know,
and again,
(15:05):
it depends on,
I think what your perspective is and why you're writing.
And,
you know,
there are people out there with that rapid re you know,
there are people out there with that rapid release formula that are just pumping them out.
And then there are the people that have one or two good books in them for the entire career.
And I feel like you and i it sounds like are at the very same or similar place somewhere in the middle of that where we're writing meaty things that fit within genre fiction,
(15:33):
you know,
but,
but there is some depth to them.
There is,
there are character arcs,
there is,
you know,
a strong themes and important themes that we're tackling in a way that then you can't,
I think the thing,
the other part of it too is you can't just say,
you know,
like I said,
how do I say this?
These are themes you can probably get more uh uh consciousness um raised in something that's palatable.
(16:04):
I mean,
I,
you know,
Pamela Samuels Young African American writer does a lot of rip from the headline stuff.
But she has done more to raise consciousness of human trafficking and a lot of other things because she's writing these funds for her novels.
And yet at the same time she's basing them on some very real problems out there,
(16:28):
she's writing them from an African American perspective.
And I,
as a white person can now say,
oh,
wait,
I didn't understand that about some African Americans,
believe me,
do not generalize.
I have got my butt kicked for that one because,
you know,
we're all different.
They're all different.
Oh,
hello,
sweetheart.
(16:49):
I'm sorry,
I'm so ad a DH d everybody listening,
my dog just jump on my lap with a baby.
Oh,
you did that?
Really?
Baby?
Sorry for that interruption.
She's about a year and a half.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I've got my cats are outside or else the be,
(17:12):
uh,
Benzie would probably be making an appearance wandering by with a tail in the air.
Yeah.
Well,
this is better than the bar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or,
or,
uh,
if my dog's outside we,
we'll get the song of the Humpback Whale.
(17:33):
He's part bass.
So he's got that hound thing going on and it's like,
anyway,
we're getting off topic.
But,
yeah.
So to your point though.
II,
I do a similar thing,
you know,
I have one book in particular that she brought up human trafficking and I have,
(17:56):
uh,
the fifth book Drop Dead Lola in my,
actually,
maybe it's the fourth but Lola wants,
I have both of my Lola Cruz books that tackles that very topic.
A human trafficking sort of ring that's happening uh,
in this club in the Sacramento area.
And,
you know,
it's a very light kind of series,
(18:19):
very sassy,
little bit sexy,
kind of really fun caper.
I,
but it is possible to weave in meaty subjects and important topics even in a lighter type of book.
And,
you know,
I,
I think that that allows,
you know,
as we've used this word already twice.
It's palatable.
(18:39):
It allows these things to be palatable for people and to read them without becoming depressed.
Number one or to read them and learn something in unexpected.
That's what I hope I do.
I mean,
people,
you know,
it's like with the old Los Angeles series just for fun,
just for grins and giggles.
When do you think L A was founded?
(19:03):
Oh my gosh.
So I was born and raised in California.
My three oldest kids live in the L A area.
I'm in North Carolina now.
Um or I don't know,
L A was founded in 17 81 89.
I think the Spanish missions and everything there.
I mean,
you know,
in fact,
we were founded by a group of the loss,
(19:25):
the guys that came from mission San Gabriel.
Uh up nine miles to uh where L A is now.
There are things I know about las history but no people don't realize that L A has such a vivid history and that a lot of it is,
you know,
when death of an came out a year ago,
(19:46):
uh it was really fun.
One of the fun things I did with this,
I discovered it in because I read the newspapers when it's happening,
there was a measles epidemic in the uh Pueblo at the time I set this story and we're still having anti-vaxxers with the whole pandemic thing.
(20:09):
And there's literally a line in death of mine when an adult dies of the measles.
And yeah,
it was pretty damn deadly.
Uh You know,
there was a wonderful thing was,
oh,
all the kids are out of school because of this measles epidemic.
Thankfully,
few have died.
You know.
That's uh yeah.
(20:31):
OK.
But you know,
thank they were thankful,
not that many kids had died.
But yeah,
the kids were dying,
especially the real little ones.
And if the adults got it,
of course.
Well,
as my father has said so many times throughout my life,
if we don't learn from history,
we're doomed to repeat it,
you know,
(20:51):
and that's so difficult.
Yeah.
And there was little literally and I put this in quite consciously where one of the other characters Regina says,
I wish there was some way we could,
something we could do to prevent this.
And they did have vaccines for smallpox by that by that point.
So I was able to do that in a way at a time when,
(21:14):
you know,
this was still an issue.
So I,
I'm,
I'm glad that's what I can do.
And it's,
um,
it's,
it's just,
it's a lot of fun.
But like I was saying earlier though,
the,
the,
the one point I was trying to make is I don't want people to feel bad because I'm prolific.
I do have friends who are like,
oh my God,
you write so much.
I just,
I know,
I,
you know,
and I was talking to another gal one time.
(21:36):
She says,
I just can't stand it when people are bitching that they are going on about how they got 1000 2000 words in one day.
And I'm lucky if I get 100.
I says,
yeah,
I've had those days.
We all have also had 1000 to 2000 word days.
But it's,
I don't want anybody to feel bad.
You are who you are.
If you're,
(21:57):
you know,
you,
if you're gonna be a,
you know,
if your nature is to be perfectionistic and to struggle over every word.
Well,
that's what you're gonna do as long as you're writing it.
And as long as it's getting out there,
eventually I've got a one friend,
I'd really like to slap her.
I would like to slap.
Not because she's a bad person,
but because she spends so much time agonizing over every word.
(22:20):
She doesn't get anything out and she's already a damn good writer.
I like,
seriously.
Come on,
honey.
But,
yeah,
well,
we've talked about this very topic several times,
you know,
in passing and,
and more intentionally,
but the bottom line is there is not one right way to do it and everybody's process is their own process and you just have to embrace that.
(22:45):
Sure.
Try different things and see what works and maybe something new will resonate,
but it's still your process and that's what you have to be true to because,
you know,
nobody can tell you how to do it.
You can't do it in somebody else's way.
No,
you really can't.
And that's,
you know,
uh you'd asked me for some tips and that is definitely one of them.
(23:07):
Know your personal style.
Know how you work.
How are,
what do you,
what time of day are you most creative?
I work really well,
first thing in the morning and mid to late afternoon and on.
But I don't always get a chance to work then because,
you know,
life happens this morning.
I lost my wallet,
you know,
(23:28):
ok,
I'm always learning.
I'm curious and interested in honing my craft and as a teacher,
I know how important it is to have structure to my learning.
I created the ready set,
right course,
as a way to share a ton of what I have learned over the past 15 years with you.
It's a comprehensive course that teaches you how to create your protagonist,
(23:49):
antagonist and your supporting characters.
It has lessons on conflict story structure and the hero's journey.
As well as what I call the essential elements of writing,
setting point of view,
dialogue,
mood,
and tone and voice.
Plus,
there are lessons on scene,
scene and sequel and motivation reaction unit.
It took me a long time to truly internalize all of this.
(24:12):
And my courses are a way to help you jump the line.
They will guide you through the writing process so you can take the bull by the horns,
so to speak and write with real confidence.
You can find out more about the writer spark courses and ready set,
right at writers spark academy dot com forward courses.
I'll see you in the classroom.
(24:34):
So,
Ann let's talk about some of your strategies for releasing creativity when you do get stuck because we all do get stuck.
So what,
what is your,
what are some of your strategies or tips for us to kind of tackle that and get past it?
(24:54):
My,
my first three tips really well,
first four really have nothing to do with writing specifically,
but they are critical to writing.
And my first one is always going to be walk,
get up,
move your butt.
(25:15):
It's good for your heart.
It's good for the back side and it is so good for your brain.
They've done the studies on it.
There's something about walking specifically,
excuse me,
there's something about walking specifically.
That just fires up the creativity.
(25:35):
It,
it's,
it,
it,
you know,
and if you can do it in nature so much,
the better if you can't.
I love urban hiking.
I wanna to get someplace when I'm gonna do that much work.
Thank you.
But,
but,
you know,
3 to 5 miles.
Oh,
yeah,
I'm out there and there's a place up behind,
(25:57):
um,
uh,
jet propulsion laboratories where I live and there's a trail up there and it's gorgeous and it's quiet and it's beautiful and it's a good solid hike.
I love that walk.
Um,
so there's that,
um,
another thing for reading that you can do and I really like doing is take breaks with other,
(26:20):
other creative stuff.
Don't just write naturally creative outlet.
I still,
because I'm crazy.
That maybe is what drew you to my,
uh,
Harlow Cassidy magical dressmaking.
My did,
I had fun with it now.
(26:41):
You sow too,
don't you?
Or I do,
I don't do it regularly anymore.
But I do.
So I did so a lot and I do so now occasionally,
but I'm trying to get back into it.
I have this beautiful fabric that I want to make a jacket with.
So,
you know,
for me it's,
I found this fabric,
well,
my mom gave me this fabric and I've got the pattern and so now it's just making the time to do it.
(27:04):
But I'm so with you.
You know,
there were many,
many years when I was raising kids and working,
teaching and trying to write,
you know,
and eventually I was able to not teach anymore.
My kids have grown and they're out of the house.
But during those years,
I let so many of my creative pastimes go in the process.
(27:29):
And now I'm really trying to recapture some of those thinking.
What did I used to do that,
that fed me,
you know,
that fed my creative soul.
I do art journaling now and I'm dabbling in watercolor painting and things like that.
And as a way to kind of tap into a different side of my creativity and let me not think about writing very explicitly,
(27:51):
you know,
but it's still feeding that creative side of myself,
which I love.
So I can also,
I think it also complements it and,
and pushes it and again,
like you're sewing,
fed Harlow.
Um,
my sewing feeds Lisa Witcher.
She's a stitcher.
And so she's always sewing stuff and SID is always making fun of her.
(28:15):
But at the same time,
no,
she does a good job and as she calls it her therapy.
And so she's at the point where she is,
she's also been sewing a lot longer and is a much better sewer than I am.
So I,
I,
you know,
I,
I'm not that good at stitching,
but I do like doing it.
Um,
I like,
well,
let's put it this way.
I like having some,
if that makes sense.
(28:36):
But,
you know,
the,
the creative process of,
one of the things I'm getting into now is zero waste patterns where they're laid out so that you don't have scraps or very,
very,
very few.
And I'm,
I'm,
I've got my first project cut out.
I can't wait to stitch it together to see what happens.
That's cool.
I use pattern uh pieces and kind of the remnants of patterns and things like that in my art journaling because it's like tissue paper.
(29:03):
And so it's great to create layers and things like that with.
Uh I also use uh tracing paper for my patterns from that I get from the art supply.
So,
you know,
there,
there are lots of overlaps.
It's just I cannot draw to save my life and it drives me nuts.
So I just don't,
I,
I whatever works for you.
(29:23):
Great.
Not different styles.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So,
uh but the other thing that I do too and in addition to regular journaling and I do have a very personal journaling process is a series of questions I ask myself mostly geared towards uh personal growth.
But part of that is a gratitude journal.
(29:45):
That sounds a little silly.
But,
and it's not just reminding ourselves that we should be thankful for the roof over our heads and our three kids.
And,
well,
my one kid and my cat,
it's looking at the little things in our lives that work that are good I got 100 words out yesterday.
(30:07):
I got,
uh,
some outlining gun.
Oh,
my God.
That's great.
That's major.
Uh,
I've got a fountain pen.
I really,
like,
I had so much fun playing with the new color ink.
Uh,
yeah,
really minor things.
Sometimes I,
and there are times when I'm,
I'm grateful for the things that really piss me off,
(30:28):
you know,
because sometimes I need to be grateful for those,
you know,
for the jerk review that,
you know,
really hurt my feelings and stuff like that because it does remind me that I'm alive that I have something to be reviewed,
all these things.
So a gratitude journal I think is just absolutely critical.
I love that idea because we often,
(30:50):
and especially people in a creative field like we are who are out there in the public eye getting reviews,
you know,
and we have to figure out how to internalize them or how to let those things go.
We,
we often focus on the negative things and so zeroing in on the little wins can help sort of uh create balance with.
(31:12):
It really does create a lot of balance.
The running gag in the household that my husband came up with is insecure writer is redundant.
Yeah.
You know,
it,
it,
it,
you're,
you're by nature,
uh both uh supremely confident and completely freaked,
freaked out and,
you know,
(31:32):
it,
it is really,
I am confident that I'm a terrific writer and yet.
At the same time,
I'm terrified.
Nobody's gonna see that.
So,
yeah,
that's a real concern,
you know.
So not that I am supremely talented and there are plenty of people who like my writing don't get me wrong,
but it's just that,
that those weird warped attitudes that we get about ourselves.
(31:56):
So,
a gratitude journal,
the little win as you put it and it is just so critical um following your heart because there are times when that inspiration is absolutely,
play it out for God's sakes.
Um Do you mean when you say that,
(32:17):
do you mean write what's in your heart,
follow what you're passionate about rather than writing to a trend,
that kind of thing?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And there's no reason,
I mean,
if you're,
what's following your heart,
what,
what's in your heart happens to be following a trend.
Well,
I got news for you,
the trends played out by the time it comes up.
So it's really why bother um it can come back.
(32:43):
I mean,
everything is,
uh everything old is new again at some point,
but it's,
you gotta write what's true to who you are as a writer,
you know,
um I can always tell when my writing is going badly.
It's because I'm trying to force it if you know,
I will,
I don't look for themes to put into books or the few times I have,
(33:06):
it has not worked well.
Sometimes it comes up like with the measles that came up out of circumstances.
I was able to play with the frustrations doctors feel because my character also,
in addition to being a winemaker,
she's also a doctor.
But the frustrations doctors feel by not being,
when not able to fix something and you know,
(33:28):
and then at least she's a doctor in a time when people pretty much dropping like flies.
It's a miracle we freaking survived as a species given all the crap out there the way people were treating it.
Um uh So it was,
but following your heart and,
(33:49):
and in,
in,
in doing that,
on the other hand,
you can't let yourself off either.
You've got to set that dedicated time,
put your butt down in the chair and sit and start banging those keys.
Now is every word you gonna write gold.
No,
you gotta allow yourself time to make mistakes because you're going to and that's fine.
(34:13):
You can always fix it later.
The I I get a little careful about that because sometimes I forget to fix it later.
That's,
that's such a good thing.
But I think you have to be ok with writing things that may not end up in the book because you need to get that down to know something about your character or to discover something about the plot,
(34:35):
that discovery writing process I think is real for all of us,
whether you're a plotter or a pan and,
and you have to understand that every single word that you write doesn't have to end up in the book,
but it still informs your process and it informs what you're writing.
And since I tend to write up here before I ever sit down banging keys,
that's one of the reasons walking for me specifically is so absolutely critical.
(34:59):
That's when I'm thinking about what I'm going to write next.
And in fact,
when my husband was teasing me,
I'd gone back to my fiction was really starting to crank.
Um,
and that's why he was so worried.
Is all of a sudden.
Are you hiding from me?
No,
I'm not hiding from you.
I'm walking for walks and I was going for walks and was doing a lot of walking and sure enough everything just started flowing.
(35:24):
You know,
if you're a pan and you're really stuck,
try writing an outline,
do the opposite of what you do.
Yeah,
I push yourself outside of your comfort zone.
Right.
Oh,
yeah.
And it's amazing how well that triggers things I had.
Um,
let's see.
In fact,
the,
the,
the,
my current work in progress,
(35:46):
which is the book three in this time Travel Travel trilogy.
I had the hardest time getting and I knew where I wanted to go with it.
I,
you know,
but I couldn't get an outline down to save my life.
So I started painting it and I tend to be,
start at the beginning right through to the end.
I don't skip around.
II,
I just can't do that.
(36:06):
Other people can please go do that.
That's great all the time.
I can't do that.
It just,
it makes me cuckoo except this time I started at the end and I've got several bits going throughout this story.
I've never done that before,
but it got me up and going.
I think the point of that is to again,
(36:28):
go with your process,
whatever it is and your process might be evolving and that could be specific,
particular story and project that you're working on.
But maybe not,
maybe you've unleashed something in yourself that's going to change your process.
For me.
It was getting scrivner and that somehow unclicked something in my mind or unleashed something in the mind and let me write out of order because I could see it visually.
(36:52):
I can drag the scenes around.
And it was very for me before that I was like,
you're writing chronologically,
yeah,
I'm a very chronological writer in that,
you know,
but that usually works for me and I'm fine with that.
It's just,
and especially uh one of the things I have a on timeline,
it was developed for writers as outlining software,
(37:13):
but it's kind of a calendar.
It's very calendar based,
which is how I've always written,
which is great because I don't like referring to last week and it was two weeks ago in the novel.
Uh but it was raining today.
And you know,
when,
when did that happen?
All right.
(37:33):
But uh so it was very useful that way.
It's been a Godsend with the Operation Quick Line series because there's a lot of kids in that series and since this is happening over a series of years,
the kids grow up.
So I need to know how old is Jamie in 1986?
Oh,
she's nine.
Ok.
Fine.
You know,
so I can keep track of that.
And that,
(37:53):
that's where I'm keeping most of my Bibles by the way,
because it's just so much more convenient.
Um And then Scribner is uh on the other hand,
I'm using Scribner for outlining for all the time in the world,
the,
the,
the current work in progress because like you said,
I can put those little synapses,
(38:13):
have them show up on my little binder and know,
OK.
That's gonna be the next scene.
That's gonna be the next scene.
That's gonna be the next scene.
This is where I'm going with it.
Um But you can do narrative view that way with a on timeline.
It's just,
I'm in Scrivner now.
I can do see it a little more easily.
So I may change that.
I may do that with my next novel.
(38:34):
I may not,
I don't know,
I don't really care.
It's just the,
the thing is,
is mixing things up sometimes is really what's the healthy part if that makes sense and figuring out what works for you.
One thing,
you know,
necessity being the mother of,
of invention.
You know,
I needed a place to figure out how to keep track of everything in the series.
(38:57):
I've gotten two series,
the rights back to two different series recently had to reread them and reintroduce all of these characters in this world to myself.
And I needed a place to do that.
So I created an entire book,
not,
you know,
like a resource book,
character Bible so that I could do that.
So it's figuring out really what works for you.
(39:18):
And I like having something physical versus flipping over in on the computer.
You know,
I like the process of being able to write and refer back to that.
So I have that visual too.
It's called my ipad open on my desk.
Um It's um you know,
I drop something else.
(39:39):
But uh yeah,
I have my ipad and,
and I use that all the time.
Um It's my second screen.
I also have a double wide uh monitor.
So if I really need to do side by side,
I can't,
I,
I'm a geek and it,
well,
it's really funny too because this is actually my second ipad,
my kid who does it at her alma mater.
(40:01):
Uh she's an adult now,
but uh got it for me for Christmas and it has a little co you know,
the old uh composition book cover.
Oh,
nice.
Yeah.
So I have my but,
you know,
it's,
it's,
I can't function without my ipad and that's the second one.
I've got the one that,
the portable that I have.
(40:22):
So,
it's,
it's ok.
Yeah,
I have four gas to your toys.
Yeah.
Um,
I'm a geek.
Ok.
But,
uh,
yeah,
so it's this whole idea of,
um,
you know,
make sure you do take the time to,
like,
(40:42):
pound those keys,
even if it's not coming out very good.
At least you're pounding them and,
you know,
the,
the,
but the,
the creativity part of it is just knowing who you are,
I think a lot of times too and knowing what does work for you and being willing to change that up.
Right.
When I was teaching middle school,
I taught English language arts and,
(41:04):
you know,
I would have them journal and write just to get their creative minds going.
You know,
even though we didn't really teach much creative writing because of the standards and whatnot.
But,
um,
you know,
one of my things that I would say to them all the time to my students is if you can't think of anything to write,
write the last word that you wrote over and over and over until something comes to mind.
(41:27):
And inevitably it does because they're like,
I don't know what to write.
Well,
write this word over and over and,
you know,
they do it and lo and behold before long they've transitioned into something,
you know,
part of it is just sitting down and doing it,
committing to doing it.
You know,
and if you have a standard set of questions to ask yourself,
(41:48):
that's what my journaling process is.
I,
and I don't always follow it but,
you know,
things like what are my lingering annoyances this week?
Uh,
losing my wallet.
What am I grateful for?
Uh,
that,
those are two of the questions.
Uh,
today,
I'll feel really good if I fill in the blank.
(42:10):
Um You know,
I,
and because I'm a Catholic and,
and do practice that way,
I'm,
I'm always thinking of,
you know,
where have I sinned?
Not in a really negative sense but OK,
what did I screw up today?
What can I do better?
And then what did I do?
Well,
because again,
in secure writer.
(42:32):
Yeah.
Yeah,
because again,
you've got to change your perspective,
change the lens that you're looking through and make it positive versus negative,
right?
And at the same time,
you can't pretend that the negative doesn't exist because,
you know,
when that happened,
you create a whole new set of problems for yourself.
And I don't,
(42:52):
you know,
I screwed up.
I shouldn't have cursed so and so out.
Ok?
Why were you cursing this person out?
Well,
let's not go into this particular petty bureaucrat,
but sometimes you do need to vent and I think that,
you know,
another,
maybe not one of your tips,
but another thing that I think writers need is somebody that understands what they're going through in this business or in this writing process.
(43:20):
And so,
you know,
if I get a bad review,
I have a friend that I talk to and,
and I'm grumbling like,
oh my God,
I can't believe,
you know,
this and then she does the same thing and sometimes that's enough just to get it out and having said that and then you can move on rather than that.
A lot of people don't know,
(43:40):
there was a mid-level,
a county planner that I was working with,
uh,
for a job.
I have.
This guy was,
he lied to me relentlessly.
He was just such a friggin jerk.
He may have ended up in a story.
I've done that,
(44:01):
you know,
um,
a friend of mine,
uh,
somebody and she's a really good writer to it and she says this horrible idiot didn't,
not only got the wrong book,
didn't tell me and wrote a shitty review.
And,
uh,
she was so mad and this person is going to end up in a book.
(44:23):
I says,
yeah,
it's on my desk.
If you were in my novel,
you'd be dead by now.
I have a shirt with a Mary Higgins Clark quote.
That's quite similar to that.
If I meet somebody I,
that's mean to me or something like that,
I'll just put them in a book.
(44:44):
We have an outlet and,
you know,
you've got so many choices with people like that.
I mean,
there's a,
in these Helen halls which is Book six and the Quick line series,
the department head is what I call an irritant.
Good guy.
In other words,
well,
he could be the bad guy,
so I,
I don't want to blow anything but he,
(45:06):
the idea behind the irritant,
good guy or the irritant is as Lisa puts it.
Yes,
I was suspecting him of this particular murder.
But I could,
you know,
it,
you know,
as often as you would like to think that the jerk is the bad guy more often than not,
(45:26):
they're not guilty of anything worse than being a jerk.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And this guy's a real jerk and it was fun to play with.
And so I have the irritant character who's not necessarily the bad guy,
but,
ok,
sometimes he is,
sometimes he isn't and,
you know,
I've had bad guys.
I've got a book.
(45:47):
Oh,
God.
There,
there's one day thing where the nicest guy in the book is actually the bad guy.
So,
yeah,
that's,
that's great because they're unsuspecting.
Right.
Right.
You know,
and yet,
oh,
my God.
And there's a reason this person's still nice even with though the bad guy,
but I can't tell why because that would give it away and we don't want to do that.
(46:10):
Yeah.
Well,
in our genre,
hiding in plain sight is,
you know,
kind of a big part of it because we have to play fair with the reader too.
Yeah.
Yeah,
you do.
And I like playing fair with the reader.
I,
I,
you know,
I,
I try not to pull things out of my,
you know what?
But,
yeah.
Did you play with the coincidence occasionally?
Why not?
(46:32):
Exactly,
why not?
We,
we have that power,
right?
If you do it right.
I mean,
uh,
just because you're paranoid,
which is Book Nine in Operation Quick Line that came out earlier this spring.
Oh,
no,
actually came out last December.
Excuse me.
Um,
it,
the first line of the book,
it happened as a result of a coincidence,
(46:55):
so bizarre and so unreal that it could only have happened in real life.
And it was a coincidence that I set up in the series with book one.
Hm.
So,
yeah.
So it's,
and it comes out in book nine that there,
yeah,
there's a real bizarre coincidence going on here.
(47:16):
I love when that happens when you plant something and then suddenly,
oh,
my gosh.
I remember and then,
you know,
as a reader,
I go back to the beginning or to that other book and remind myself,
did I really see that?
Did I not,
you know?
Oh,
my gosh.
Wow.
So impressed.
So it's,
it's kind of fun.
We've,
we've been having a lot of fun with it,
you know,
and,
and I think that,
and,
you know,
maybe that's the ultimate tip.
(47:38):
Have fun.
Learn how to have fun.
I mean,
you know,
the,
and by the way,
it was apparently not Dorothy Parker who said I love,
I hate writing.
I love having written it with someone else.
Um,
but nonetheless,
this idea,
I love writing the pro I am in my element when I'm actually writing and if the writing is going well,
I'm in a great mood.
(47:59):
It's not going so good.
My husband knows the house is cleaner.
Yeah.
Or you're gone for,
you know,
two hours on a hike.
I'm gonna go stalk at my computer now.
Right,
dear.
Yeah.
No,
but I agree.
I think that's a great way to end our chat.
(48:20):
And that's with the idea that we start,
most of us probably started writing because we are passionate about it because we have fun with it.
And if you lose that,
the idea that it's fun and,
and wanting to get back to your project,
your characters,
your world,
then there's something probably going wrong.
(48:40):
It's like a teacher who suddenly doesn't like kids anymore.
And I've taught with quite a few people like that.
I'm like,
why are you a teacher?
But you're not having fun writing.
Why are you a writer?
You know.
So,
yeah,
I think that,
that we need to have fun.
We do need to have fun and,
and,
uh,
writing has saved my butt during the pandemic and the shutdown.
Um,
(49:01):
I know everybody else was saying,
oh,
it's so hard to write.
And I certainly respect and understand that I don't want anybody feeling bad on that score,
but it saved my butt.
My poor husband heard so much about Sid and Lisa.
He was sick of them.
Still is.
But I,
I basically rewrote a good two thirds of that series during that time because I just couldn't stop.
(49:27):
But I needed some place to hide some place where life wasn't so bad.
And yeah,
I also got to deal with another plague because of Sid's extra chronic extracurricular activities.
He's uh,
yeah,
he's a,
he's a bit of a hound dog.
And,
well,
the fun thing is Lisa is the exact opposite.
She is religious.
(49:48):
Not in a bad way but very,
very nice.
She's not judgmental at all.
And that's,
they call each other on it too.
Yeah.
So here's this profligate randier than a British royal guy in this lovely,
let's face.
It.
Sex belongs in marriage.
I'd rather keep it that way.
(50:09):
And they both find a way to bend to each other,
which is,
I think even more fun.
But that takes several books down the road.
But,
but also because this is the 19 eighties and in 80 he doesn't give up sleeping around till 85.
Mhm.
Well,
guess what was happening in 84 85?
That was,
(50:30):
I mean,
79 was when the AIDS crisis started,
but 84 85 was when it was starting to get into the public consciousness and the straight population.
So that's,
uh,
you know,
and I have a friend who's gay who remembers those years very well and has given me some interesting perspective on it.
(50:52):
So,
anyway,
but that's neither here nor there.
We've gone off everywhere else.
All right.
So remind us about your book that just released.
OK.
Running away to Boston.
Uh First off,
it does not take place in Boston.
It is a code between,
uh,
a mother and her daughter.
Uh,
it's mostly from the perspective of Janny Miller.
(51:14):
She finds people and the reason she finds people is when she was a little girl,
her mother disappeared in a tornado.
Uh There was an abusive father and in the process of going in her ex-boyfriend FBI agent Brent Nicholson sends Janny off to find,
(51:34):
uh Tanya Coleman who,
uh,
has disappeared after a terrible shooting at a food truck.
And,
uh in the process of trying to find Tanya,
uh,
Janny,
uh,
gets hooked into this ragtag group of computer hackers that are trying to bring down this evil corporation and she finds her mom and,
(52:03):
ok.
Yeah.
And it's,
it's interesting because it's not,
uh,
all that.
It's a happy reunion and then not so happy.
And so it's,
it's Jenny's got a lot of shit to deal with and,
and it's full of naughty words.
Most of my other characters don't swear.
Hm.
Some characters need to,
they just need to.
It's,
(52:24):
it's part of them.
Well,
Sid,
you know,
the,
the fun thing about Sid too is he,
he swears like a,
uh,
a,
he's got a potty mouth and a half and Lisa doesn't.
So,
she's always correcting,
you know,
his language and he's all sometimes commenting on it and a couple of times when you get to hear his voice,
it's like,
wow.
But,
(52:44):
uh,
in my case,
uh but yeah,
and Jenny,
this is a more contemporary story obviously.
And so,
yeah,
Janny is out there like a Stevedore.
So it's uh you know,
if you,
if you've been reading Baddy Wilcox,
the Los Angeles series,
this is set in the 19th century with Victorian woman.
(53:05):
No,
she does not swear.
Right.
Right.
Wasn't even mentioned,
she kind of dances around the whole sex thing.
It's just as,
as they did.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
As they did.
So,
you know,
this is a bit of a departure for me.
So,
so Right though,
(53:25):
because it is so different and so kind of freeing.
Oh yeah.
And,
and I really had to think about what makes a thriller,
a thriller and really kind of spread things out which you know,
my end.
I I wrap things up very quickly.
That's the one thing my husband will nail me on every time is you wrapped it up too quickly.
You gotta get this up,
(53:45):
you gotta get that.
Yeah,
because it's just,
I'm at that point on the story.
I wanna finish this but I really had to think about,
ok,
what happens now,
how can I make it more difficult?
How can I ratchet it up?
How can I ratchet it up?
How can I ratchet it up?
And so we did and,
and I,
(54:06):
I think I did.
It was,
it was fun and I,
it was funny because the ending actually harks back to the,
uh,
prologue,
which is really very interesting.
Um,
the prologue starts with the,
the mother.
I look forward to reading that.
Congratulations on its release.
It was so much fun and,
(54:27):
uh,
to,
to write and to do and then,
you know,
go back to my usual stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,
I thank you so much for being here and taking your time and for sharing with all of us such great tips on how to kind of keep that creativity going and strategies.
I,
what I like most is that you gave actual concrete strategies,
(54:49):
you know,
things we can actually do,
you know,
getting up and going out and letting our brains process and no,
thank you.
And it,
you know,
I mean,
like I said,
there,
there are things I do because of who I am as a person that not,
you're not gonna be able to do or somebody else isn't going to be able to do because that's just who I am and I,
it doesn't make me a better writer or a better person.
(55:11):
It just makes me who I am so,
but there are things you can do to,
to mix it up to,
to get out,
get your butt out and walk and think about things because that's,
and I appreciate your,
I,
I appreciate your,
your,
your gratitude.
I,
I love talking to authors and you know,
this whole podcast and writer Spark Academy and everything that I do.
(55:34):
It,
it's really so much about paying it forward because I didn't feel like I had the resources that we have now.
And if it,
if,
if what I'm offering and our conversations can help new writers,
aspiring writers or,
you know,
anybody,
wherever you are on your journey,
kind of jump ahead.
Skip the line a little bit,
you know,
get information that will help them without the challenges that I faced,
(56:00):
you know,
just not having access and resources,
then that's what it's all about.
So I love having these types of conversations and I appreciate you taking the time.
Thank you so much.
Well,
I appreciate you having me because I love talking about this stuff too.
And look,
we all have a story to tell,
you know,
and every voice is important and I firmly firmly believe that and there's an audience for every voice.
(56:22):
So uh not everybody can tell their story,
but we can and anything that helps us do that I want to help people with because it's just,
you're right.
I started writing in the late eighties.
There was no internet.
Right.
I had to,
I had to wait until,
(56:43):
you know,
if I wanted to find something out.
I had to wait till the,
the library opened.
Damn it.
I had,
I did have one friend Britannica's.
Yeah.
I have one friend who was fortunately up,
up at 2 a.m. in the morning when I happened to be up writing.
So I did,
was able to make a couple quick phone calls,
but now it's like,
(57:03):
ok,
Wikipedia just need fast fact,
you know,
and those things are so,
oh,
my gosh,
doesn't it make you a,
just in awe of all of the writers that came before that were typing on typewriters that didn't have the luxury of delete,
delete,
delete,
you know,
and would not now be a writer if it weren't for word processing.
(57:27):
I,
I tried typing my first,
I hand wrote my first novel,
tried typing it and never got anywhere.
So it's a different world.
It's a very different world and I,
I appreciate those people who can do the hand write it in first draft and then,
uh,
yeah,
I really appreciate those people who have that gift.
(57:49):
Uh,
I can't do it.
It's just,
yeah,
same,
same.
I can't read my writing when I start writing because my handwriting can't keep up with my brain.
Well,
you know,
I,
I have my journalism shorthand,
which is,
you know,
because you can't,
people talk faster,
you can write and I can type faster than I can handwrite.
Same.
Well,
then,
thank goodness for the computer.
(58:10):
That's all.
Yeah.
All right.
Well,
thank you again for being here.
I really,
really appreciate it and I know our listeners will really enjoy listening to this.
Ok,
great.
Well,
hey,
thank you so very,
very much and I'm,
I'm looking forward to,
to passing it on.
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
Everyone.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
(58:34):
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot writers spark academy dot com.
Check out our courses,
our resources and all the content there and I will see you next time until then happy writing.
It depends on,
I think what your perspective is and why you're writing.
And,
you know,
there are people out there with that rapid release formula that are just pumping them out.
And then there are the people that have one or two good books in them for the entire career.
And I feel like you and I it sounds like are at the very same or similar place somewhere in the middle of that where we're writing meaty things that fit within genre fiction,
(00:25):
you know,
but,
but there is some depth to them.
There is,
there are character arcs,
there is,
you know,
a strong themes and important themes that we're tackling what entertains people entertains people and that's what we're doing.
Hello.
Hello,
I'm Melissa Bourbon.
And this is the writer spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
(00:50):
Welcome.
15 years ago,
I was an avid reader but not a writer.
I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,
but I had dream to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
Now,
I'm a number one,
Amazon and national bestselling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.
(01:23):
I'm an ordinary person,
a wife,
a mom,
a daughter,
a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through writer Spark.
I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
I'm here as your partner,
as you navigate your own writing journey.
I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.
(01:50):
Welcome to the Rider Spark podcast.
I am so glad to have my guest with me today,
Anne Louise Bannon.
Welcome to the Writer Spark podcast.
Yeah.
Hey,
well,
thank you for having me,
Melissa.
I'm just thrilled to death to be talking to you and it's,
(02:13):
it,
it's always fun to do podcasts and this one looks sounds like it's gonna be a blast so well.
Good.
So our,
our main focus is really geared towards aspiring writers,
new writers and writers who want to,
you know,
revisit craft topics or home their craft or just get remotivated.
So that's um kind of what we're gonna talk about.
We have our topic all lined up about releasing your creativity and how to write when you maybe don't feel like it.
(02:40):
But before we get to that,
let's hear a little bit about your origin story.
How did you get started with writing?
And you are very prolific.
You have several different series and you have a book that just came out too.
So take it away.
I'm really excited about running away to Boston because it's really different for me.
But as far as how I got started,
(03:02):
well,
imagine a moody 15 year old kid who would rather spend all her time daydreaming and hanging out with the people in her head than maybe even real people.
And you've got me and my mom,
God bless her.
She's,
she really,
really wanted me to,
uh,
(03:22):
you know,
not just dream,
she wanted me to be out there.
So I figured,
well,
how do I get away with daydreaming?
I'll write it down.
The next thing I knew I had written my first novel,
which by the way sucked.
It was terrible of novels do.
Right.
Right.
It was the,
(03:42):
no,
it was actually a novelization of,
um,
a fairy tale Cinderella as a matter of fact.
And it sucked.
It just was terrible.
But it got me writing and I didn't write again until much later.
But as the years went by,
I just started writing more and while I was in grad school for my theater degree,
(04:08):
I just,
I started the Operation Quick Line Siren and had to keep that going and,
and,
and it just,
it came out.
So for a very long time,
I was one of those writers that I had to be feeling it.
You know,
I had to be in the mood.
And fortunately for me,
I frequently was,
I had a really bad first marriage which helped but not necessarily recommend it as a,
(04:36):
as a method.
No,
I,
I don't recommend this as a way to get yourself writing.
But it,
and it,
it is kind of funny because I have since upgraded,
shall we say husband 2.3?
He uh uh I,
I got started writing again after a lot of time working in nonfiction as a journalist and he says you're writing again and you're writing all the time.
(04:59):
Should I be worried?
And I said no,
honey,
because I had also done some of the other things I do to get myself writing.
But it was,
and it was a blessing because my,
my husband now he is such a good support to me.
He really is wonderful and gives me a lot.
My ex gave me a lot of room to write to God bless him.
But uh wasn't worth it.
(05:23):
Well,
good for you for finding the great guy that you have now.
Yeah,
I,
I am blessed anyway.
So yes,
I have just put out uh running away to Boston.
It's a tech thriller which is really different for me because I tend to be uh I'm more of a cozy in a historic,
(05:44):
uh,
you know,
or a traditional historical uh mystery writer.
Uh My,
my main flagship series is the old Los Angeles series,
which is set in Los Angeles in the 18 seventies.
Um So it's very unusual for me to be doing something thrilling.
And I'm kind of like,
oh God,
please let it be thrilling.
I think it's thrilling.
(06:05):
It's,
I'm more,
I do more of that sort of thing.
And so to be doing something a little less who done it,
I is very,
very different.
Did it require a lot of research into the tech part?
Because that's so different.
I mean,
you re research into historical but to research sort of into that other side of things.
(06:27):
I mean,
yeah,
I did have to look things up quite a bit.
Um But at the same time I am all right,
compared to most writers,
I'm a total geek.
I'm a told gear compared to most writing people.
I know.
Uh unfortunate.
Uh Fortunately for me,
I also have a lot of friends who,
(06:47):
well,
I'm very close to JP L jet propulsion lamps where NASA has a lot of contracts.
Uh I'm not far from California Institute of Technology at Caltech where Einstein hung out,
you know.
Um I have friends who are put me to shame.
Let's put it this way.
(07:07):
I can't write code.
I've got friends who write it from the ground up,
you know,
and and these guys are really great.
And so I had a couple of my friends,
uh uh three of them,
uh look it over after I was done and they,
they really came up with some great suggestions and one even got a boo boo.
I,
a couple of them caught a couple boo boos.
(07:27):
I made that had nothing to do with tech when they just caught the,
the,
the flat thing.
They were just terrific.
So,
it's,
it was a lot of fun writing because it was,
uh,
a different,
you know,
uh,
it was a very different sort of thing for me to do.
So I had a,
I,
I have to admit it really helped and we were talking about,
uh,
you know,
(07:48):
unleashing your creativity doing something that I don't normally do really helped to believe it or not.
Yeah,
I,
I believe it and I think that,
you know,
it,
you can do something really well and that can be what you do and you can do it forever or you can do something really well,
(08:09):
but it gets kind of stale and you need to keep pushing or doing something different to excite yourself,
I think.
And that follows into your words,
into the story itself.
And I'm kind of right there with you.
I've kind of moved from those cozy mysteries into more women's fiction with mystery elements and even going more so and with that in my next series.
(08:34):
So it's very invigorating and it's very exciting to,
to do that and to branch out into something new.
And then it's also fun because when you come back to what you've been doing,
you,
you've got a new perspective on it.
Um,
you know,
the Operation Quick Line series,
which is set in the 19 eighties when I originally wrote it,
I hate calling it a historical but it's,
(08:59):
uh,
the,
that it,
I loved it set in that partly because one of the characters,
well,
he gets around a lot and you couldn't have a character do that these days because of AIDS and all.
But,
um,
I'm having to write some new ones because of the way the story,
the story eventually evolved,
(09:19):
especially during the rewrite process because I have rewritten them,
believe me.
And it's,
it's kind of fun to put that aside.
And what I'm working on right now is book three of my time travel trilogy,
which is science fiction and historical also because they go back in time.
But I also have to create future time and that's been a lot of fun.
(09:44):
So it's,
it's,
I mean,
I don't read one type of book.
Why would I write one type of book that's,
you know,
I'm,
I'm eclectic as hell and I'm not gonna pretend I'm a,
so that's me.
Yeah,
same,
same for me.
Uh,
and I'm,
yeah,
I want to write the types of things that I want to read and that's what I write and that happens to be sort of all over the place after my own heart.
(10:11):
So,
I guess in my own project.
So that's good.
Yeah.
Well,
I get so many people who come out and say,
oh,
well,
you've got to focus,
honey.
I am the A DH D poster child.
I haven't focused in 60 odd years.
What makes you think?
I'm gonna suddenly come out and start focusing now for God's sake,
(10:31):
it's not happening that,
um,
ok,
well,
let us launch into our topic which is releasing your creativity,
unleashing your creativity,
especially when you're stuck and,
and writing and continuing to write even when you are stuck.
(10:51):
So,
yeah.
Have there been times in your career when you have gotten stuck,
first of all?
Oh,
yeah.
I mean,
there was a period,
uh,
about two or three years before I left my ex and then,
um,
thank you,
(11:12):
uh,
for almost,
0 15,
almost 20 years.
Uh,
where I was not doing much fiction.
Now I was writing.
Um,
I had gone into,
uh,
I was doing more journalism though.
I had started working at the L A Times.
Uh,
not as a journalist actually as a desk assistant.
(11:34):
But,
uh,
I was writing and they went,
wait a minute,
she can write.
Oh,
God,
yes,
we want her.
And so I did go to journalism school after,
right after I left my ex,
I went to journalism school and,
um,
got my degree there.
So I was writing,
I wasn't working.
I was freelancing a lot for a lot of reasons because this was unfortunately,
(11:57):
right at the time,
newspapers started declining,
going under and that was not a good talk about bad timing on my part.
But,
uh,
but I was doing a lot of freelancing and I'm sorry,
you write when you don't feel like it,
you write because frankly you don't open up a newspaper and see blank space.
(12:18):
And I learned that very,
very early on.
You don't get paid for not writing also.
Right.
Yeah,
there's that,
you know,
that,
that paycheck is really incentivizing.
But that is also when I started when everything else collapsed that way,
which was,
oh,
golly,
uh,
2014,
(12:39):
20 right around 2014,
2016 when everything started really seriously.
I,
I mean,
in 2007,
I lost three major clients in one in,
in a matter of months.
It was really bad and it wasn't because they fired me.
It was because the publications went on.
So that was really tough.
And,
and I mean,
I was a consulting editor for one.
(13:00):
I was like,
I can make a woman get this out.
No,
you can't.
So it came in.
Um,
so,
but I got that into my psyche that you write even when you don't feel like it,
which is a good thing.
Um,
and uh the only other thing that was a big help was the pandemic because I hit,
(13:21):
I hid in my writing and a lot of people say I can't write and,
and I know that and I understand that and I respect that.
I don't want to make anybody feel bad because I'm prolific and they're not,
I think that's,
you know,
the,
the,
the two,
you know,
it's just,
I have a hard time explaining that I'm pro prolific because for a long time when I was first coming up and again,
(13:41):
in the late eighties,
early nineties,
I was attending a lot of writers conferences and you'd get these snobs.
Well,
they're cranking them out 100 cages,
you know,
or you're some,
some uh uh agent said,
well,
I don't want to know about all the 5 20 different novels you wrote.
Uh,
you,
(14:01):
you,
you,
these anal retentive people have written and I'm going,
honey,
if they've got 25 novels,
retentive is not the right word.
But there was this idea that if the more you write,
obviously the worse the writer you are,
right.
It's,
it's that elitism,
(14:22):
right of it being this,
you know,
great American novel versus the genre of fiction that just isn't worth as much.
You're not what entertains people,
entertains people and that's what we're doing.
That's what I'm doing.
I mean,
I don't want,
I don't mind,
but I would love to make my readers think,
but they're not gonna come to my books thinking about it.
(14:45):
Because how do I say this?
You're gonna catch more flies with that kind of honey than you are with.
Well,
you know,
the Great American novel now,
I,
I'm sorry,
I,
I wouldn't read the Great American novel.
Why would I write it?
Yeah,
there's only so much room in the marketplace for that too.
You know,
and again,
(15:05):
it depends on,
I think what your perspective is and why you're writing.
And,
you know,
there are people out there with that rapid re you know,
there are people out there with that rapid release formula that are just pumping them out.
And then there are the people that have one or two good books in them for the entire career.
And I feel like you and i it sounds like are at the very same or similar place somewhere in the middle of that where we're writing meaty things that fit within genre fiction,
(15:33):
you know,
but,
but there is some depth to them.
There is,
there are character arcs,
there is,
you know,
a strong themes and important themes that we're tackling in a way that then you can't,
I think the thing,
the other part of it too is you can't just say,
you know,
like I said,
how do I say this?
These are themes you can probably get more uh uh consciousness um raised in something that's palatable.
(16:04):
I mean,
I,
you know,
Pamela Samuels Young African American writer does a lot of rip from the headline stuff.
But she has done more to raise consciousness of human trafficking and a lot of other things because she's writing these funds for her novels.
And yet at the same time she's basing them on some very real problems out there,
(16:28):
she's writing them from an African American perspective.
And I,
as a white person can now say,
oh,
wait,
I didn't understand that about some African Americans,
believe me,
do not generalize.
I have got my butt kicked for that one because,
you know,
we're all different.
They're all different.
Oh,
hello,
sweetheart.
(16:49):
I'm sorry,
I'm so ad a DH d everybody listening,
my dog just jump on my lap with a baby.
Oh,
you did that?
Really?
Baby?
Sorry for that interruption.
She's about a year and a half.
Yeah.
Yeah,
I've got my cats are outside or else the be,
(17:12):
uh,
Benzie would probably be making an appearance wandering by with a tail in the air.
Yeah.
Well,
this is better than the bar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or,
or,
uh,
if my dog's outside we,
we'll get the song of the Humpback Whale.
(17:33):
He's part bass.
So he's got that hound thing going on and it's like,
anyway,
we're getting off topic.
But,
yeah.
So to your point though.
II,
I do a similar thing,
you know,
I have one book in particular that she brought up human trafficking and I have,
(17:56):
uh,
the fifth book Drop Dead Lola in my,
actually,
maybe it's the fourth but Lola wants,
I have both of my Lola Cruz books that tackles that very topic.
A human trafficking sort of ring that's happening uh,
in this club in the Sacramento area.
And,
you know,
it's a very light kind of series,
(18:19):
very sassy,
little bit sexy,
kind of really fun caper.
I,
but it is possible to weave in meaty subjects and important topics even in a lighter type of book.
And,
you know,
I,
I think that that allows,
you know,
as we've used this word already twice.
It's palatable.
(18:39):
It allows these things to be palatable for people and to read them without becoming depressed.
Number one or to read them and learn something in unexpected.
That's what I hope I do.
I mean,
people,
you know,
it's like with the old Los Angeles series just for fun,
just for grins and giggles.
When do you think L A was founded?
(19:03):
Oh my gosh.
So I was born and raised in California.
My three oldest kids live in the L A area.
I'm in North Carolina now.
Um or I don't know,
L A was founded in 17 81 89.
I think the Spanish missions and everything there.
I mean,
you know,
in fact,
we were founded by a group of the loss,
(19:25):
the guys that came from mission San Gabriel.
Uh up nine miles to uh where L A is now.
There are things I know about las history but no people don't realize that L A has such a vivid history and that a lot of it is,
you know,
when death of an came out a year ago,
(19:46):
uh it was really fun.
One of the fun things I did with this,
I discovered it in because I read the newspapers when it's happening,
there was a measles epidemic in the uh Pueblo at the time I set this story and we're still having anti-vaxxers with the whole pandemic thing.
(20:09):
And there's literally a line in death of mine when an adult dies of the measles.
And yeah,
it was pretty damn deadly.
Uh You know,
there was a wonderful thing was,
oh,
all the kids are out of school because of this measles epidemic.
Thankfully,
few have died.
You know.
That's uh yeah.
(20:31):
OK.
But you know,
thank they were thankful,
not that many kids had died.
But yeah,
the kids were dying,
especially the real little ones.
And if the adults got it,
of course.
Well,
as my father has said so many times throughout my life,
if we don't learn from history,
we're doomed to repeat it,
you know,
(20:51):
and that's so difficult.
Yeah.
And there was little literally and I put this in quite consciously where one of the other characters Regina says,
I wish there was some way we could,
something we could do to prevent this.
And they did have vaccines for smallpox by that by that point.
So I was able to do that in a way at a time when,
(21:14):
you know,
this was still an issue.
So I,
I'm,
I'm glad that's what I can do.
And it's,
um,
it's,
it's just,
it's a lot of fun.
But like I was saying earlier though,
the,
the,
the one point I was trying to make is I don't want people to feel bad because I'm prolific.
I do have friends who are like,
oh my God,
you write so much.
I just,
I know,
I,
you know,
and I was talking to another gal one time.
(21:36):
She says,
I just can't stand it when people are bitching that they are going on about how they got 1000 2000 words in one day.
And I'm lucky if I get 100.
I says,
yeah,
I've had those days.
We all have also had 1000 to 2000 word days.
But it's,
I don't want anybody to feel bad.
You are who you are.
If you're,
(21:57):
you know,
you,
if you're gonna be a,
you know,
if your nature is to be perfectionistic and to struggle over every word.
Well,
that's what you're gonna do as long as you're writing it.
And as long as it's getting out there,
eventually I've got a one friend,
I'd really like to slap her.
I would like to slap.
Not because she's a bad person,
but because she spends so much time agonizing over every word.
(22:20):
She doesn't get anything out and she's already a damn good writer.
I like,
seriously.
Come on,
honey.
But,
yeah,
well,
we've talked about this very topic several times,
you know,
in passing and,
and more intentionally,
but the bottom line is there is not one right way to do it and everybody's process is their own process and you just have to embrace that.
(22:45):
Sure.
Try different things and see what works and maybe something new will resonate,
but it's still your process and that's what you have to be true to because,
you know,
nobody can tell you how to do it.
You can't do it in somebody else's way.
No,
you really can't.
And that's,
you know,
uh you'd asked me for some tips and that is definitely one of them.
(23:07):
Know your personal style.
Know how you work.
How are,
what do you,
what time of day are you most creative?
I work really well,
first thing in the morning and mid to late afternoon and on.
But I don't always get a chance to work then because,
you know,
life happens this morning.
I lost my wallet,
you know,
(23:28):
ok,
I'm always learning.
I'm curious and interested in honing my craft and as a teacher,
I know how important it is to have structure to my learning.
I created the ready set,
right course,
as a way to share a ton of what I have learned over the past 15 years with you.
It's a comprehensive course that teaches you how to create your protagonist,
(23:49):
antagonist and your supporting characters.
It has lessons on conflict story structure and the hero's journey.
As well as what I call the essential elements of writing,
setting point of view,
dialogue,
mood,
and tone and voice.
Plus,
there are lessons on scene,
scene and sequel and motivation reaction unit.
It took me a long time to truly internalize all of this.
(24:12):
And my courses are a way to help you jump the line.
They will guide you through the writing process so you can take the bull by the horns,
so to speak and write with real confidence.
You can find out more about the writer spark courses and ready set,
right at writers spark academy dot com forward courses.
I'll see you in the classroom.
(24:34):
So,
Ann let's talk about some of your strategies for releasing creativity when you do get stuck because we all do get stuck.
So what,
what is your,
what are some of your strategies or tips for us to kind of tackle that and get past it?
(24:54):
My,
my first three tips really well,
first four really have nothing to do with writing specifically,
but they are critical to writing.
And my first one is always going to be walk,
get up,
move your butt.
(25:15):
It's good for your heart.
It's good for the back side and it is so good for your brain.
They've done the studies on it.
There's something about walking specifically,
excuse me,
there's something about walking specifically.
That just fires up the creativity.
(25:35):
It,
it's,
it,
it,
you know,
and if you can do it in nature so much,
the better if you can't.
I love urban hiking.
I wanna to get someplace when I'm gonna do that much work.
Thank you.
But,
but,
you know,
3 to 5 miles.
Oh,
yeah,
I'm out there and there's a place up behind,
(25:57):
um,
uh,
jet propulsion laboratories where I live and there's a trail up there and it's gorgeous and it's quiet and it's beautiful and it's a good solid hike.
I love that walk.
Um,
so there's that,
um,
another thing for reading that you can do and I really like doing is take breaks with other,
(26:20):
other creative stuff.
Don't just write naturally creative outlet.
I still,
because I'm crazy.
That maybe is what drew you to my,
uh,
Harlow Cassidy magical dressmaking.
My did,
I had fun with it now.
(26:41):
You sow too,
don't you?
Or I do,
I don't do it regularly anymore.
But I do.
So I did so a lot and I do so now occasionally,
but I'm trying to get back into it.
I have this beautiful fabric that I want to make a jacket with.
So,
you know,
for me it's,
I found this fabric,
well,
my mom gave me this fabric and I've got the pattern and so now it's just making the time to do it.
(27:04):
But I'm so with you.
You know,
there were many,
many years when I was raising kids and working,
teaching and trying to write,
you know,
and eventually I was able to not teach anymore.
My kids have grown and they're out of the house.
But during those years,
I let so many of my creative pastimes go in the process.
(27:29):
And now I'm really trying to recapture some of those thinking.
What did I used to do that,
that fed me,
you know,
that fed my creative soul.
I do art journaling now and I'm dabbling in watercolor painting and things like that.
And as a way to kind of tap into a different side of my creativity and let me not think about writing very explicitly,
(27:51):
you know,
but it's still feeding that creative side of myself,
which I love.
So I can also,
I think it also complements it and,
and pushes it and again,
like you're sewing,
fed Harlow.
Um,
my sewing feeds Lisa Witcher.
She's a stitcher.
And so she's always sewing stuff and SID is always making fun of her.
(28:15):
But at the same time,
no,
she does a good job and as she calls it her therapy.
And so she's at the point where she is,
she's also been sewing a lot longer and is a much better sewer than I am.
So I,
I,
you know,
I,
I'm not that good at stitching,
but I do like doing it.
Um,
I like,
well,
let's put it this way.
I like having some,
if that makes sense.
(28:36):
But,
you know,
the,
the creative process of,
one of the things I'm getting into now is zero waste patterns where they're laid out so that you don't have scraps or very,
very,
very few.
And I'm,
I'm,
I've got my first project cut out.
I can't wait to stitch it together to see what happens.
That's cool.
I use pattern uh pieces and kind of the remnants of patterns and things like that in my art journaling because it's like tissue paper.
(29:03):
And so it's great to create layers and things like that with.
Uh I also use uh tracing paper for my patterns from that I get from the art supply.
So,
you know,
there,
there are lots of overlaps.
It's just I cannot draw to save my life and it drives me nuts.
So I just don't,
I,
I whatever works for you.
(29:23):
Great.
Not different styles.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So,
uh but the other thing that I do too and in addition to regular journaling and I do have a very personal journaling process is a series of questions I ask myself mostly geared towards uh personal growth.
But part of that is a gratitude journal.
(29:45):
That sounds a little silly.
But,
and it's not just reminding ourselves that we should be thankful for the roof over our heads and our three kids.
And,
well,
my one kid and my cat,
it's looking at the little things in our lives that work that are good I got 100 words out yesterday.
(30:07):
I got,
uh,
some outlining gun.
Oh,
my God.
That's great.
That's major.
Uh,
I've got a fountain pen.
I really,
like,
I had so much fun playing with the new color ink.
Uh,
yeah,
really minor things.
Sometimes I,
and there are times when I'm,
I'm grateful for the things that really piss me off,
(30:28):
you know,
because sometimes I need to be grateful for those,
you know,
for the jerk review that,
you know,
really hurt my feelings and stuff like that because it does remind me that I'm alive that I have something to be reviewed,
all these things.
So a gratitude journal I think is just absolutely critical.
I love that idea because we often,
(30:50):
and especially people in a creative field like we are who are out there in the public eye getting reviews,
you know,
and we have to figure out how to internalize them or how to let those things go.
We,
we often focus on the negative things and so zeroing in on the little wins can help sort of uh create balance with.
(31:12):
It really does create a lot of balance.
The running gag in the household that my husband came up with is insecure writer is redundant.
Yeah.
You know,
it,
it,
it,
you're,
you're by nature,
uh both uh supremely confident and completely freaked,
freaked out and,
you know,
(31:32):
it,
it is really,
I am confident that I'm a terrific writer and yet.
At the same time,
I'm terrified.
Nobody's gonna see that.
So,
yeah,
that's a real concern,
you know.
So not that I am supremely talented and there are plenty of people who like my writing don't get me wrong,
but it's just that,
that those weird warped attitudes that we get about ourselves.
(31:56):
So,
a gratitude journal,
the little win as you put it and it is just so critical um following your heart because there are times when that inspiration is absolutely,
play it out for God's sakes.
Um Do you mean when you say that,
(32:17):
do you mean write what's in your heart,
follow what you're passionate about rather than writing to a trend,
that kind of thing?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And there's no reason,
I mean,
if you're,
what's following your heart,
what,
what's in your heart happens to be following a trend.
Well,
I got news for you,
the trends played out by the time it comes up.
So it's really why bother um it can come back.
(32:43):
I mean,
everything is,
uh everything old is new again at some point,
but it's,
you gotta write what's true to who you are as a writer,
you know,
um I can always tell when my writing is going badly.
It's because I'm trying to force it if you know,
I will,
I don't look for themes to put into books or the few times I have,
(33:06):
it has not worked well.
Sometimes it comes up like with the measles that came up out of circumstances.
I was able to play with the frustrations doctors feel because my character also,
in addition to being a winemaker,
she's also a doctor.
But the frustrations doctors feel by not being,
when not able to fix something and you know,
(33:28):
and then at least she's a doctor in a time when people pretty much dropping like flies.
It's a miracle we freaking survived as a species given all the crap out there the way people were treating it.
Um uh So it was,
but following your heart and,
(33:49):
and in,
in,
in doing that,
on the other hand,
you can't let yourself off either.
You've got to set that dedicated time,
put your butt down in the chair and sit and start banging those keys.
Now is every word you gonna write gold.
No,
you gotta allow yourself time to make mistakes because you're going to and that's fine.
(34:13):
You can always fix it later.
The I I get a little careful about that because sometimes I forget to fix it later.
That's,
that's such a good thing.
But I think you have to be ok with writing things that may not end up in the book because you need to get that down to know something about your character or to discover something about the plot,
(34:35):
that discovery writing process I think is real for all of us,
whether you're a plotter or a pan and,
and you have to understand that every single word that you write doesn't have to end up in the book,
but it still informs your process and it informs what you're writing.
And since I tend to write up here before I ever sit down banging keys,
that's one of the reasons walking for me specifically is so absolutely critical.
(34:59):
That's when I'm thinking about what I'm going to write next.
And in fact,
when my husband was teasing me,
I'd gone back to my fiction was really starting to crank.
Um,
and that's why he was so worried.
Is all of a sudden.
Are you hiding from me?
No,
I'm not hiding from you.
I'm walking for walks and I was going for walks and was doing a lot of walking and sure enough everything just started flowing.
(35:24):
You know,
if you're a pan and you're really stuck,
try writing an outline,
do the opposite of what you do.
Yeah,
I push yourself outside of your comfort zone.
Right.
Oh,
yeah.
And it's amazing how well that triggers things I had.
Um,
let's see.
In fact,
the,
the,
the,
my current work in progress,
(35:46):
which is the book three in this time Travel Travel trilogy.
I had the hardest time getting and I knew where I wanted to go with it.
I,
you know,
but I couldn't get an outline down to save my life.
So I started painting it and I tend to be,
start at the beginning right through to the end.
I don't skip around.
II,
I just can't do that.
(36:06):
Other people can please go do that.
That's great all the time.
I can't do that.
It just,
it makes me cuckoo except this time I started at the end and I've got several bits going throughout this story.
I've never done that before,
but it got me up and going.
I think the point of that is to again,
(36:28):
go with your process,
whatever it is and your process might be evolving and that could be specific,
particular story and project that you're working on.
But maybe not,
maybe you've unleashed something in yourself that's going to change your process.
For me.
It was getting scrivner and that somehow unclicked something in my mind or unleashed something in the mind and let me write out of order because I could see it visually.
(36:52):
I can drag the scenes around.
And it was very for me before that I was like,
you're writing chronologically,
yeah,
I'm a very chronological writer in that,
you know,
but that usually works for me and I'm fine with that.
It's just,
and especially uh one of the things I have a on timeline,
it was developed for writers as outlining software,
(37:13):
but it's kind of a calendar.
It's very calendar based,
which is how I've always written,
which is great because I don't like referring to last week and it was two weeks ago in the novel.
Uh but it was raining today.
And you know,
when,
when did that happen?
All right.
(37:33):
But uh so it was very useful that way.
It's been a Godsend with the Operation Quick Line series because there's a lot of kids in that series and since this is happening over a series of years,
the kids grow up.
So I need to know how old is Jamie in 1986?
Oh,
she's nine.
Ok.
Fine.
You know,
so I can keep track of that.
And that,
(37:53):
that's where I'm keeping most of my Bibles by the way,
because it's just so much more convenient.
Um And then Scribner is uh on the other hand,
I'm using Scribner for outlining for all the time in the world,
the,
the,
the current work in progress because like you said,
I can put those little synapses,
(38:13):
have them show up on my little binder and know,
OK.
That's gonna be the next scene.
That's gonna be the next scene.
That's gonna be the next scene.
This is where I'm going with it.
Um But you can do narrative view that way with a on timeline.
It's just,
I'm in Scrivner now.
I can do see it a little more easily.
So I may change that.
I may do that with my next novel.
(38:34):
I may not,
I don't know,
I don't really care.
It's just the,
the thing is,
is mixing things up sometimes is really what's the healthy part if that makes sense and figuring out what works for you.
One thing,
you know,
necessity being the mother of,
of invention.
You know,
I needed a place to figure out how to keep track of everything in the series.
(38:57):
I've gotten two series,
the rights back to two different series recently had to reread them and reintroduce all of these characters in this world to myself.
And I needed a place to do that.
So I created an entire book,
not,
you know,
like a resource book,
character Bible so that I could do that.
So it's figuring out really what works for you.
(39:18):
And I like having something physical versus flipping over in on the computer.
You know,
I like the process of being able to write and refer back to that.
So I have that visual too.
It's called my ipad open on my desk.
Um It's um you know,
I drop something else.
(39:39):
But uh yeah,
I have my ipad and,
and I use that all the time.
Um It's my second screen.
I also have a double wide uh monitor.
So if I really need to do side by side,
I can't,
I,
I'm a geek and it,
well,
it's really funny too because this is actually my second ipad,
my kid who does it at her alma mater.
(40:01):
Uh she's an adult now,
but uh got it for me for Christmas and it has a little co you know,
the old uh composition book cover.
Oh,
nice.
Yeah.
So I have my but,
you know,
it's,
it's,
I can't function without my ipad and that's the second one.
I've got the one that,
the portable that I have.
(40:22):
So,
it's,
it's ok.
Yeah,
I have four gas to your toys.
Yeah.
Um,
I'm a geek.
Ok.
But,
uh,
yeah,
so it's this whole idea of,
um,
you know,
make sure you do take the time to,
like,
(40:42):
pound those keys,
even if it's not coming out very good.
At least you're pounding them and,
you know,
the,
the,
but the,
the creativity part of it is just knowing who you are,
I think a lot of times too and knowing what does work for you and being willing to change that up.
Right.
When I was teaching middle school,
I taught English language arts and,
(41:04):
you know,
I would have them journal and write just to get their creative minds going.
You know,
even though we didn't really teach much creative writing because of the standards and whatnot.
But,
um,
you know,
one of my things that I would say to them all the time to my students is if you can't think of anything to write,
write the last word that you wrote over and over and over until something comes to mind.
(41:27):
And inevitably it does because they're like,
I don't know what to write.
Well,
write this word over and over and,
you know,
they do it and lo and behold before long they've transitioned into something,
you know,
part of it is just sitting down and doing it,
committing to doing it.
You know,
and if you have a standard set of questions to ask yourself,
(41:48):
that's what my journaling process is.
I,
and I don't always follow it but,
you know,
things like what are my lingering annoyances this week?
Uh,
losing my wallet.
What am I grateful for?
Uh,
that,
those are two of the questions.
Uh,
today,
I'll feel really good if I fill in the blank.
(42:10):
Um You know,
I,
and because I'm a Catholic and,
and do practice that way,
I'm,
I'm always thinking of,
you know,
where have I sinned?
Not in a really negative sense but OK,
what did I screw up today?
What can I do better?
And then what did I do?
Well,
because again,
in secure writer.
(42:32):
Yeah.
Yeah,
because again,
you've got to change your perspective,
change the lens that you're looking through and make it positive versus negative,
right?
And at the same time,
you can't pretend that the negative doesn't exist because,
you know,
when that happened,
you create a whole new set of problems for yourself.
And I don't,
(42:52):
you know,
I screwed up.
I shouldn't have cursed so and so out.
Ok?
Why were you cursing this person out?
Well,
let's not go into this particular petty bureaucrat,
but sometimes you do need to vent and I think that,
you know,
another,
maybe not one of your tips,
but another thing that I think writers need is somebody that understands what they're going through in this business or in this writing process.
(43:20):
And so,
you know,
if I get a bad review,
I have a friend that I talk to and,
and I'm grumbling like,
oh my God,
I can't believe,
you know,
this and then she does the same thing and sometimes that's enough just to get it out and having said that and then you can move on rather than that.
A lot of people don't know,
(43:40):
there was a mid-level,
a county planner that I was working with,
uh,
for a job.
I have.
This guy was,
he lied to me relentlessly.
He was just such a friggin jerk.
He may have ended up in a story.
I've done that,
(44:01):
you know,
um,
a friend of mine,
uh,
somebody and she's a really good writer to it and she says this horrible idiot didn't,
not only got the wrong book,
didn't tell me and wrote a shitty review.
And,
uh,
she was so mad and this person is going to end up in a book.
(44:23):
I says,
yeah,
it's on my desk.
If you were in my novel,
you'd be dead by now.
I have a shirt with a Mary Higgins Clark quote.
That's quite similar to that.
If I meet somebody I,
that's mean to me or something like that,
I'll just put them in a book.
(44:44):
We have an outlet and,
you know,
you've got so many choices with people like that.
I mean,
there's a,
in these Helen halls which is Book six and the Quick line series,
the department head is what I call an irritant.
Good guy.
In other words,
well,
he could be the bad guy,
so I,
I don't want to blow anything but he,
(45:06):
the idea behind the irritant,
good guy or the irritant is as Lisa puts it.
Yes,
I was suspecting him of this particular murder.
But I could,
you know,
it,
you know,
as often as you would like to think that the jerk is the bad guy more often than not,
(45:26):
they're not guilty of anything worse than being a jerk.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And this guy's a real jerk and it was fun to play with.
And so I have the irritant character who's not necessarily the bad guy,
but,
ok,
sometimes he is,
sometimes he isn't and,
you know,
I've had bad guys.
I've got a book.
(45:47):
Oh,
God.
There,
there's one day thing where the nicest guy in the book is actually the bad guy.
So,
yeah,
that's,
that's great because they're unsuspecting.
Right.
Right.
You know,
and yet,
oh,
my God.
And there's a reason this person's still nice even with though the bad guy,
but I can't tell why because that would give it away and we don't want to do that.
(46:10):
Yeah.
Well,
in our genre,
hiding in plain sight is,
you know,
kind of a big part of it because we have to play fair with the reader too.
Yeah.
Yeah,
you do.
And I like playing fair with the reader.
I,
I,
you know,
I,
I try not to pull things out of my,
you know what?
But,
yeah.
Did you play with the coincidence occasionally?
Why not?
(46:32):
Exactly,
why not?
We,
we have that power,
right?
If you do it right.
I mean,
uh,
just because you're paranoid,
which is Book Nine in Operation Quick Line that came out earlier this spring.
Oh,
no,
actually came out last December.
Excuse me.
Um,
it,
the first line of the book,
it happened as a result of a coincidence,
(46:55):
so bizarre and so unreal that it could only have happened in real life.
And it was a coincidence that I set up in the series with book one.
Hm.
So,
yeah.
So it's,
and it comes out in book nine that there,
yeah,
there's a real bizarre coincidence going on here.
(47:16):
I love when that happens when you plant something and then suddenly,
oh,
my gosh.
I remember and then,
you know,
as a reader,
I go back to the beginning or to that other book and remind myself,
did I really see that?
Did I not,
you know?
Oh,
my gosh.
Wow.
So impressed.
So it's,
it's kind of fun.
We've,
we've been having a lot of fun with it,
you know,
and,
and I think that,
and,
you know,
maybe that's the ultimate tip.
(47:38):
Have fun.
Learn how to have fun.
I mean,
you know,
the,
and by the way,
it was apparently not Dorothy Parker who said I love,
I hate writing.
I love having written it with someone else.
Um,
but nonetheless,
this idea,
I love writing the pro I am in my element when I'm actually writing and if the writing is going well,
I'm in a great mood.
(47:59):
It's not going so good.
My husband knows the house is cleaner.
Yeah.
Or you're gone for,
you know,
two hours on a hike.
I'm gonna go stalk at my computer now.
Right,
dear.
Yeah.
No,
but I agree.
I think that's a great way to end our chat.
(48:20):
And that's with the idea that we start,
most of us probably started writing because we are passionate about it because we have fun with it.
And if you lose that,
the idea that it's fun and,
and wanting to get back to your project,
your characters,
your world,
then there's something probably going wrong.
(48:40):
It's like a teacher who suddenly doesn't like kids anymore.
And I've taught with quite a few people like that.
I'm like,
why are you a teacher?
But you're not having fun writing.
Why are you a writer?
You know.
So,
yeah,
I think that,
that we need to have fun.
We do need to have fun and,
and,
uh,
writing has saved my butt during the pandemic and the shutdown.
Um,
(49:01):
I know everybody else was saying,
oh,
it's so hard to write.
And I certainly respect and understand that I don't want anybody feeling bad on that score,
but it saved my butt.
My poor husband heard so much about Sid and Lisa.
He was sick of them.
Still is.
But I,
I basically rewrote a good two thirds of that series during that time because I just couldn't stop.
(49:27):
But I needed some place to hide some place where life wasn't so bad.
And yeah,
I also got to deal with another plague because of Sid's extra chronic extracurricular activities.
He's uh,
yeah,
he's a,
he's a bit of a hound dog.
And,
well,
the fun thing is Lisa is the exact opposite.
She is religious.
(49:48):
Not in a bad way but very,
very nice.
She's not judgmental at all.
And that's,
they call each other on it too.
Yeah.
So here's this profligate randier than a British royal guy in this lovely,
let's face.
It.
Sex belongs in marriage.
I'd rather keep it that way.
(50:09):
And they both find a way to bend to each other,
which is,
I think even more fun.
But that takes several books down the road.
But,
but also because this is the 19 eighties and in 80 he doesn't give up sleeping around till 85.
Mhm.
Well,
guess what was happening in 84 85?
That was,
(50:30):
I mean,
79 was when the AIDS crisis started,
but 84 85 was when it was starting to get into the public consciousness and the straight population.
So that's,
uh,
you know,
and I have a friend who's gay who remembers those years very well and has given me some interesting perspective on it.
(50:52):
So,
anyway,
but that's neither here nor there.
We've gone off everywhere else.
All right.
So remind us about your book that just released.
OK.
Running away to Boston.
Uh First off,
it does not take place in Boston.
It is a code between,
uh,
a mother and her daughter.
Uh,
it's mostly from the perspective of Janny Miller.
(51:14):
She finds people and the reason she finds people is when she was a little girl,
her mother disappeared in a tornado.
Uh There was an abusive father and in the process of going in her ex-boyfriend FBI agent Brent Nicholson sends Janny off to find,
(51:34):
uh Tanya Coleman who,
uh,
has disappeared after a terrible shooting at a food truck.
And,
uh in the process of trying to find Tanya,
uh,
Janny,
uh,
gets hooked into this ragtag group of computer hackers that are trying to bring down this evil corporation and she finds her mom and,
(52:03):
ok.
Yeah.
And it's,
it's interesting because it's not,
uh,
all that.
It's a happy reunion and then not so happy.
And so it's,
it's Jenny's got a lot of shit to deal with and,
and it's full of naughty words.
Most of my other characters don't swear.
Hm.
Some characters need to,
they just need to.
It's,
(52:24):
it's part of them.
Well,
Sid,
you know,
the,
the fun thing about Sid too is he,
he swears like a,
uh,
a,
he's got a potty mouth and a half and Lisa doesn't.
So,
she's always correcting,
you know,
his language and he's all sometimes commenting on it and a couple of times when you get to hear his voice,
it's like,
wow.
But,
(52:44):
uh,
in my case,
uh but yeah,
and Jenny,
this is a more contemporary story obviously.
And so,
yeah,
Janny is out there like a Stevedore.
So it's uh you know,
if you,
if you've been reading Baddy Wilcox,
the Los Angeles series,
this is set in the 19th century with Victorian woman.
(53:05):
No,
she does not swear.
Right.
Right.
Wasn't even mentioned,
she kind of dances around the whole sex thing.
It's just as,
as they did.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
As they did.
So,
you know,
this is a bit of a departure for me.
So,
so Right though,
(53:25):
because it is so different and so kind of freeing.
Oh yeah.
And,
and I really had to think about what makes a thriller,
a thriller and really kind of spread things out which you know,
my end.
I I wrap things up very quickly.
That's the one thing my husband will nail me on every time is you wrapped it up too quickly.
You gotta get this up,
(53:45):
you gotta get that.
Yeah,
because it's just,
I'm at that point on the story.
I wanna finish this but I really had to think about,
ok,
what happens now,
how can I make it more difficult?
How can I ratchet it up?
How can I ratchet it up?
How can I ratchet it up?
And so we did and,
and I,
(54:06):
I think I did.
It was,
it was fun and I,
it was funny because the ending actually harks back to the,
uh,
prologue,
which is really very interesting.
Um,
the prologue starts with the,
the mother.
I look forward to reading that.
Congratulations on its release.
It was so much fun and,
(54:27):
uh,
to,
to write and to do and then,
you know,
go back to my usual stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,
I thank you so much for being here and taking your time and for sharing with all of us such great tips on how to kind of keep that creativity going and strategies.
I,
what I like most is that you gave actual concrete strategies,
(54:49):
you know,
things we can actually do,
you know,
getting up and going out and letting our brains process and no,
thank you.
And it,
you know,
I mean,
like I said,
there,
there are things I do because of who I am as a person that not,
you're not gonna be able to do or somebody else isn't going to be able to do because that's just who I am and I,
it doesn't make me a better writer or a better person.
(55:11):
It just makes me who I am so,
but there are things you can do to,
to mix it up to,
to get out,
get your butt out and walk and think about things because that's,
and I appreciate your,
I,
I appreciate your,
your,
your gratitude.
I,
I love talking to authors and you know,
this whole podcast and writer Spark Academy and everything that I do.
(55:34):
It,
it's really so much about paying it forward because I didn't feel like I had the resources that we have now.
And if it,
if,
if what I'm offering and our conversations can help new writers,
aspiring writers or,
you know,
anybody,
wherever you are on your journey,
kind of jump ahead.
Skip the line a little bit,
you know,
get information that will help them without the challenges that I faced,
(56:00):
you know,
just not having access and resources,
then that's what it's all about.
So I love having these types of conversations and I appreciate you taking the time.
Thank you so much.
Well,
I appreciate you having me because I love talking about this stuff too.
And look,
we all have a story to tell,
you know,
and every voice is important and I firmly firmly believe that and there's an audience for every voice.
(56:22):
So uh not everybody can tell their story,
but we can and anything that helps us do that I want to help people with because it's just,
you're right.
I started writing in the late eighties.
There was no internet.
Right.
I had to,
I had to wait until,
(56:43):
you know,
if I wanted to find something out.
I had to wait till the,
the library opened.
Damn it.
I had,
I did have one friend Britannica's.
Yeah.
I have one friend who was fortunately up,
up at 2 a.m. in the morning when I happened to be up writing.
So I did,
was able to make a couple quick phone calls,
but now it's like,
(57:03):
ok,
Wikipedia just need fast fact,
you know,
and those things are so,
oh,
my gosh,
doesn't it make you a,
just in awe of all of the writers that came before that were typing on typewriters that didn't have the luxury of delete,
delete,
delete,
you know,
and would not now be a writer if it weren't for word processing.
(57:27):
I,
I tried typing my first,
I hand wrote my first novel,
tried typing it and never got anywhere.
So it's a different world.
It's a very different world and I,
I appreciate those people who can do the hand write it in first draft and then,
uh,
yeah,
I really appreciate those people who have that gift.
(57:49):
Uh,
I can't do it.
It's just,
yeah,
same,
same.
I can't read my writing when I start writing because my handwriting can't keep up with my brain.
Well,
you know,
I,
I have my journalism shorthand,
which is,
you know,
because you can't,
people talk faster,
you can write and I can type faster than I can handwrite.
Same.
Well,
then,
thank goodness for the computer.
(58:10):
That's all.
Yeah.
All right.
Well,
thank you again for being here.
I really,
really appreciate it and I know our listeners will really enjoy listening to this.
Ok,
great.
Well,
hey,
thank you so very,
very much and I'm,
I'm looking forward to,
to passing it on.
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
Everyone.
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
(58:34):
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot writers spark academy dot com.
Check out our courses,
our resources and all the content there and I will see you next time until then happy writing.
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