Learn All About Audiobook Production and Narration

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Audio books are a huge,
huge industry and it's well worth figuring out how to get your books produced into audio books because it's a whole different arm of the publishing business.
And it's an opportunity for you as an author to expand and reach new readers or listeners.

(00:20):
Today.
My guest is Mary Castillo,
who is a writer.
I first met her years ago back in,
I think 2008.
And now she has parlayed her career as a writer into an audio narration career.
She has so many interesting things to say.
She's learned so much about audio narration and she is sharing it with us here today.

(00:46):
Hello.
Hello,
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the writer spark podcast where business creativity and the craft of writing converge.
Welcome.
15 years ago,
I was an avid reader but not a writer.
I didn't know anything about the actual craft and I knew next to nothing about the publishing industry,

(01:07):
but I had dreamed to become a published author and I set out to learn everything I could.
Now,
I'm a number one Amazon and national bestselling author of more than 35 novels I've published traditionally,
and I recently plunged into the world of indie publishing and I teach people like you how to grow in their craft and find success in this ever changing industry.

(01:29):
I'm an ordinary person,
a wife,
a mom,
a daughter,
a teacher living in a small North Carolina town through writer Spark.
I am doing what I love more than anything in the world which is teaching and helping others on their writing journeys.
I'm here as your partner,
as you navigate your own writing journey.
I'm here to help you understand the essential elements of the writing craft to build your confidence and to help you find the success you desire.

(01:56):
Welcome to the Rider Spark Podcast,
Mary.
Thank you so much for being here on the Writer Spark podcast.
I really love to start with the origin story and how the authors that I chat with got started in writing and,
and,
you know,
kind of your path to publication.
So why don't we just dive right in with that?

(02:19):
Well,
um I think my writing career began with my mom and my grandmother who were avid readers.
They were the kind who'd sit me in their lap and we'd read.
And um I remember very distinctly when I started to think about careers,
I think I must have been 12 or 13.
My grandmother said,

(02:39):
you know,
the best job in the world has to be an author because you can just,
she said it was you don't have to get dressed for work.
You can just,
um,
write amazing books and dress however you want.
And I thought that sounds really nice.
I like that idea.
Um,
but,
uh,
my,
my,

(02:59):
my,
I began,
began writing in earnest in 1994.
I was a history major.
I almost flunked out of college because I had this grand idea of becoming,
of going to med school and that was just a very bad idea.
And uh at the 11th hour uh did not get have to drop out of college but um be started writing uh short stories.

(03:24):
Um and,
you know,
took kind of a when you start putting yourself out there going to writers conferences and,
and in my case,
I happen to be very fortunate that a Harlequin editor sat next to me and that was around the time that Chick lit was the big,
you know,
the big trending uh genre.

(03:45):
And I mean,
I thought I was writing romantic comedies and,
you know,
she's like,
no,
that's a chick lit novel.
And um she ended up not being my editor,
but it started to kind of help me to get narrow,
narrow down my focus and uh through a long and very uh boring story.

(04:06):
I pitch kind of sort of pitched my book to a panel of editors from Harper Collins um at RW A um at an RW A conference in New York and one of the editors said that I please send it to me and she edited three of my books and,

(04:26):
um,
that was starting in 2005.
So I published my first book in that year and I also had my first child.
So that was a long time ago.
And then,
um,
I also,
uh,
decided I wanted to just be a little strange and write like a gothic mystery with a haunted house and goes back in time to the 19 twenties.

(04:49):
And that kind of started my independent writing uh career.
Uh And that novel lost in the light was really the novel that I had always wanted to write.
Like I said,
I,
I loved history and I loved the paranormal.
And,
um that was a,
that was combining those two lifelong interests.

(05:10):
And I started hearing some,
you know,
talk about this whole audio book thing.
And that was back in 2015,
um hearing authors who were getting their books published using this mysterious platform called AC X.
And um I decided,
well,
you know,
in high school,

(05:31):
I,
I was a,
I,
I,
uh I took drama classes and maybe I should narrate it myself.
And it was a weekly podcast every chapter I'd post a week and the image just took forever.
But it was a great training to learn the technical aspects to um see if this was something that I really enjoyed doing,

(05:54):
which I did.
And then,
um after I published that audio book,
it again,
it was originally a podcast and I put all the chapters together,
published it um as a full audio book,
other authors began coming to me and saying,
would you narrate my audio book and then my audio book career uh took off.

(06:16):
And so,
um I think I'm,
I'm,
I was doing the math.
I'm like,
how many have I done now?
And I think I'm working on my 17th titles.
So,
uh and I have uh titles um booked into next year.
So you just never know.
So it,
it has um writing has,

(06:38):
you know,
taken a pause.
Um But I love uh what I get to do and to,
to take someone's written work and be entrusted with producing it into an audio book is um pretty special.
Yeah,
that is quite an amazing story.
That's a great segue into our topic today,
which is audio book production and marketing.

(07:00):
And,
you know,
you,
you kind of gave us that intro of how you got into it,
which is great.
Um Which book was the first one that you did yourself that you narrated yourself.
It was called Rise Reprieve.
And it is the first book um in a series that it's,

(07:21):
it's a part of the Montana Sky World and the author Luella Nelson.
Um back when they had Kendall Worlds,
this was a while ago,
uh authors would allow um other authors to take their world and create their own stories.
And so Deborah Holland um had her Montana Sky series and uh Luella's series,

(07:46):
which is the Harper Ranch series.
It's about,
um,
four sisters,
uh,
who have uh immigrated to Montana and their,
uh and that was the first book in the series.
And I have to be honest because I had to record that like three or four times because I was still learning.
And,

(08:07):
um,
and so I was,
I,
I'm,
I'm probably,
I'm,
I'm proud of all the audio books that I've done.
But that one in particular uh because it was the first time taking someone else's work and um and,
and bringing it to life.
Yeah.
So,
so do you have any acting experience that kind of led you into this or was it more just,

(08:30):
you know,
I have this book?
I know this is a thing.
I'm gonna try it myself for my own book and it,
and it went from there.
But I,
you know,
I,
I would think that some sort of theatrical or acting experience would be really beneficial in the audio book,
narration field.
Oh,
yeah.
Um Where,
what I came from was a very minimal acting experience.

(08:53):
I took classes.
Um But once I was in front of an audience,
I'd be like,
hey,
you know,
like I feel foolish,
what am I doing?
Um And uh but I always,
uh I think writers and actors are really,
we're,
we're pretty much not the same but we are the different sides of the same coin.

(09:14):
The writer is,
um we,
we,
we,
we are in,
in our little space off stage off camera.
Um And we're bringing these worlds and,
and bringing these characters to life,
whereas the actor is on stage on camera and externalize,
bringing that story to life um in front of other people.

(09:36):
So I feel that they,
that,
that in many ways,
they're,
they're very similar and um especially there,
there was a time when I was doing some entertainment journalism and interviewed some TV actors and as I got to know them,
many of them were writers and um some published some,
not some,
you know,
they,
they did some writing on the shows that they were acting on,

(09:58):
but they all had that same storytelling gene.
It just was expressed in a different way.
So,
uh yeah,
so I had some very minimal drama training and um and just a love of story and so doing my own work,
of course,
I knew those characters very well because I'd spent years with them.
So,

(10:19):
uh then just when you're in,
uh I'm in my uh I'm,
we're recording this from my um my little studio when you're in a small space by yourself,
you,
I can feel like I can be,
I can act out,
I can do different voices,
different characters.
I don't know,
I could do that on stage or if I could do it in front of a camera.

(10:42):
You know,
I,
I,
I'm fine doing it from my studio.
I'm not even sure I could do it from a studio.
You know,
I,
my family,
they all,
you know,
go into funny voices and all of this stuff when we're on the dinner table and everybody's together.
And I'm like,
no,
no.
And even my,
my husband is such a great storyteller and he was the one to tell stories to the kids.
Not me,

(11:03):
even though I'm the writer,
but my writing process is much more internalized and I'm,
you know,
it comes to me as I write and then there's the revision process.
I can't just come up with these stories on the fly like he can.
So,
I don't know.
But,
but maybe,
maybe I could get used to it if I had my own little cubby,
my little closet to record in.

(11:24):
Well,
I think it was Charles Dickens.
I'm pretty sure it was Charles Dickens who kept a mirror on his desk so that he could,
he,
he would look,
he'd make the face that the character,
the cowl or the smile or the gesture and he would use a mirror so that he could then describe it in his writing.
So,

(11:44):
uh,
yeah,
I think,
you know,
every,
um,
there are some authors who,
I mean,
certainly in nonfiction and audio books,
you hear a lot of non-fiction,
um,
authors who narrate their own books for obvious reasons.
Um,
and a few brave souls who will take on their fiction work.
Um,
but yeah,
I think because they're secretly,
they're,
they're,
we're hams and we need some attention.

(12:08):
So,
you know,
we just go for it.
I love it when celebrities or authors narrate their own work.
You know,
I listen to a lot of memoirs and I love audio books and I listen to a lot of memoirs and I love it when it's narrated by the person who wrote it.
But I am actually really awed by the people who can do that yourself included because I have,

(12:32):
you know,
read scenes on camera or recorded for whatever XY or Z and I flub up constantly.
I mean,
I find it very,
very difficult to read aloud,
especially when you know,
there's a recording happening or people are listening or it's live on Facebook or whatever.

(12:53):
I find it challenging.
So kudos to you for being able to do it seamlessly.
Thank you.
Yeah.
No,
there's a lot of,
there's a lot of flubbing and then sometimes other words that have to then get cut out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's part of the process.
But yes.
Um that's what editors are for.

(13:13):
God bless them.
Yeah.
So you have this idea that you could create the audio book for your own work.
Which book was that your very first one that you did the podcast episodes for or chapters?
Yeah.
It was lost in the light and that.
Yeah.
Lost in the light was my first.
And um uh then I did the short story in between.

(13:40):
Uh I originally was going to write it as a series and for other reasons,
I've,
I have not completed that series,
but I wrote Lost In the Light.
And then I word its follow up Girl In The Mist,
which was like a novella.
And that had more of a romantic storyline when that quickly taught me that co you know,
sweet romance and cozy mysteries might be more my jam because just describing a kiss,

(14:04):
much less anything sexier.
I'm like a 12 year old girl laughing hysterically,
you know,
like,
yeah.
No,
I don't think this is for me.
I'm obviously not as mature as I had hoped.
I was.
Yeah,
that's so funny.
I've,
yeah,
I cringe writing those kind of scenes.
In fact,
I had two romantic suspense books that I wrote quite a long time ago and I love them still.

(14:27):
They're based on Mexican legends.
One is Silent obsession.
One is Silent Echoes.
One is about um kind of centered around and the other is,
and I love these books.
But initially they were solidly romantic suspense when they were published and then I got the rights back and Indie published them and I took all that stuff out.
I'm like,

(14:47):
no,
no,
no,
I don't want that stuff in there.
No,
no,
no,
because I was just like my,
I was watching my um first,
my very first book,
which I think is probably when we first met was living the Vida Lola and I wrote that book in great part.

(15:07):
So my daughter could have a character to kind of relate to when she got older.
She was little at the time.
My husband is a first generation Mexican American Lola and her family very much based on his family.
And,
you know,
she's,
my daughter's 23 now and still she's like,
no mom,
I can't,
I can't read it because there's sex in there.

(15:28):
Like,
there's not actually to talk about it and,
you know,
there's,
there's some tension but they,
you know,
that's as far as it goes.
But she's like,
no mom can't read it.
I can't read it because you wrote it.
Yeah.
That's why I haven't,
uh,
recorded,
um,
Hot Tamada or in between men because,
yeah,
I just couldn't get through it.
Um,

(15:48):
and,
and I have actually thought about,
uh,
when that time comes getting the rights back and perhaps,
uh,
revising them.
Um,
but yeah,
I would,
uh,
uh,
I,
I would not want,
yeah,
it would be weird if my son read my books and,
oh,
no,
I know.
Yeah,

(16:09):
I hear,
um,
actors saying they don't watch their own movies,
their kids don't watch their movies,
you know?
But I think that,
you know,
their,
their friends would and their other,
you know,
their,
their friends,
their children's friends,
I think it would get out there and,
you know,
you know what was happening,
even if you don't watch it yourself or your kids don't watch it yourself.
And I think it's the same with books.

(16:30):
I'm like,
no,
I think that's why so many erotica and authors and things like that have pen names,
right?
Because they want to remain hidden a little bit,
protect it a little bit.
Um OK,
so about audio books,
I have some questions,
some of which we've already talked about.
But um so first of all,

(16:53):
you're very entrepreneurial to just launch into narrating your own audio book and from there parlaying that into another career that you hadn't ever even planned on.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
No,
I had no plan.
It was something I thought,
oh,
this will be fun and it obviously,

(17:13):
it still is my goodness.
So you said you have put writing a little bit on the back burner and you have other things that you do as well.
So how do you miss writing?
How are you thinking about juggling writing and audio books and everything else that you do kind of moving forward?
Do you think you'll find a balance or do you think you're gonna kind of step away from writing more permanently because this is taking off?

(17:38):
Well,
I uh you know,
uh when we make plans,
God laughs.
Right.
So,
uh I'm actually looking at becoming an empty nester within the next uh year and,
um,
and so really,
uh,
not that I blame my child,
but,
yeah,
just being present for him and in juggling a day a day job,

(18:02):
this is not yet a full time endeavor.
And,
um,
yes,
I do have plans to go back into writing.
I actually have a cozy mystery series that I've been that still lives in my head.
And so I know when stories,
when they,
they,
it's like they're biting their time,
the characters,
they'll go,
yes,
we're still here waiting for you.

(18:22):
And that's how that,
that series feels.
I actually have a handwritten draft of the first,
um,
book in that series.
And so,
and,
and really,
it is just a matter of,
um,
you know,
I used to be a,
a rise and grind kind of person and with,
uh,
you know,

(18:43):
I,
I've learned to enjoy life and not punish myself and,
and,
and,
um,
and so,
yeah,
my days of writing until three or four in the morning and then getting up and going to work are,
no,
I,
I don't need to do that to myself anymore.
I,
I want to enjoy my life and enjoy the writing because then feeling like you are enslaved to your writing,

(19:05):
that's a terrible place to be.
And I've been there and I don't want to go back there.
So when that time,
uh opens up in,
in my schedule and then it will happen.
And,
and if that ST if those stories need to be written then,
but they probably will keep me up till four in the morning until I start writing them.
So I'm staying open and I'm enjoying,

(19:27):
um,
I'm enjoying doing audio.
It's,
it's,
uh,
it's a different kind of storytelling and,
uh,
yes,
I have to resist the urge sometimes to rewrite the work I was going to ask.
I mean,
like I would have done that a little differently.
But,
ok.
Yeah.
Uh,
yeah,
you do.
And,

(19:47):
and,
uh,
actually I was just last night,
I was in a workshop with Dave Feno and he had this great quote that we don't bring words to life.
We bring characters to life.
And yes,
of course,
I'm reading an audio book so I have to stay true to the words,
but it's really the characters and it's,
and when I'm reading a particularly a fiction book,

(20:08):
even sometimes nonfiction,
if I hear the author's voice in my head or the character's voice in my head,
that,
that's the,
that's the inspiration of the different voices that I have to do,
whether they're accented or aged or whoever.
It's ultimately the essence of the character that I feel is where I'm bringing that to life.

(20:30):
Do you,
what kind of background do you get from the authors that you work for?
That?
You narrate their books?
That's one question and then kind of backing that up.
Are you on any of the audiobook platforms?
You know,
for hire.
Is that how you contract or is it kind of word of mouth at this point still?

(20:50):
Well,
yeah,
I was auditioning uh for a while there,
particularly during the pandemic.
Um I was auditioning through AC X and now I'm in the very enviable position that uh authors are coming to me with their work.
And,
um,
and so yes,
in some cases,
uh depending on the author and the amount of world building they've done,

(21:13):
like,
when they have series Bible,
I always ask for,
you know,
do you have a series Bible?
And some look at me like,
no,
I don't and others are like,
well,
kind of.
Um And so that's where I,
you know,
one,
an audio book narrator has to read the book.
And um and you don't want to,
I don't know if interpretation is the right word.

(21:35):
But um to,
you know,
like I said,
it's just more than reading the words,
it's understanding,
you know,
who these characters are,
their relationships to each other.
It's a lot like writing.
Um But I'm not,
I'm not the one who has,
who has to look at the blank page.
I get a full written page.
It's great.
And um and yeah,

(21:56):
so just having that ear,
um and that,
that has taken time uh having uh now developed the ear for,
um I,
I find that I'm doing less and less editing at the back end because I'm catching those moments when I'm,
like,
oh,
ok.
No,
I can't.
I have to,
I have to read what's on the page.

(22:17):
Yeah,
that's,
that's interesting because,
you know,
this podcast is relatively new and I was,
you know,
it's grown into something sort of in,
not quite,
in the same way that your audiobook narration has,
but it's growing into something that's taking a lot more time and I'm really enjoying it and I didn't plan on it necessarily.

(22:38):
But I tell you,
the editing process takes a while,
you know,
to cut and spice things together and make sure that it's sounding the way that it needs to sound.
And uh you know,
it takes time sometimes hours and hours.
So for a whole book,
I can imagine that's really daunting.

(22:59):
Yeah.
Actually,
I just did uh my first title for Penguin Random House uh in which I had a director.
And so in a workshops,
I'll have,
you know,
obviously the,
the person who's leading the workshop will be doing the directing or will be giving you notes as you're reading.
So it was a different experience in that.
Um You know,
I would,

(23:19):
I,
I'd be in the flow and he'd be like,
wait a minute,
wait a minute,
go back,
you know,
and,
and,
and make,
make those corrections uh that or I missed or,
you know,
sometimes I would catch myself and then have to go back.
Um But yeah,
you,
I,
I typically handle all my post production and,
um,
you know,
as I grow,
uh I'll having to be,

(23:39):
we'll have,
we'll have to drop that out so that I can keep up with the work and,
and,
um,
yeah,
and,
and do what,
what,
what real people really want is,
uh,
is for me to tell their stories.
Yeah,
because right now when you're starting anything,
I am in the same boat where I'm doing all of it.
Right.
I'm doing the pre-production,

(23:59):
the actual recordings,
the post production,
all of the uploading all of the seo,
all of that stuff and,
you know,
it all takes so much time and,
and something has to give and,
you know,
eventually I'd love to get to the point too where I have a team or other people,
you know,
that are helping with all of that other stuff so that I can do the fun stuff that I want to do that led me to this.

(24:20):
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,
I'm OK.
So here I'm gonna turn around,
I was gonna ask you a question.
What prompted you to inspired you to start a podcast?
Oh,
well,
um,
I was a teacher,
public school teacher teaching middle school in some high school and then I started writing,

(24:44):
you know,
and,
and kind of went back and forth between not teaching and writing full time and then we know we need some extra money.
So I'm gonna go back to teaching and so I kind of did that on and off for about 15 years and got to the point where I didn't need to teach anymore.
And I,
you know,
we moved from,
uh,
Texas to North Carolina.
And so that was a really good time to stop.

(25:05):
And so I've just been writing full time,
which is great,
but as,
you know,
writing is not a very lucrative career.
Number one and number two,
I'm a,
just a teacher and,
you know,
down to my core.
And so even after I start,
stopped teaching public school,
I taught adults,
I worked at um Southern Methodist University,

(25:26):
for example,
with their continuing ed program.
And I've done a variety of programs like that.
And then I've taught online and I do workshops and presentations for some of the writing organizations and then being a teacher.
I,
and,
and I'm just a person that is always thinking,
ok,
what else,
what else,
what else?

(25:46):
And I don't know why I do that.
It's just my personality,
I guess because I could just write.
Um but I thought I wanted to create courses just another way to teach.
And then the pandemic hit.
And I thought,
ok,
well,
now is a good time to do it.
And so I created Writer Spark Academy,
which has online courses.

(26:08):
So there's a basic novel writing course.
There's a cozy mystery writing course,
there's a memoir writing course.
And then there's so many courses I'm always learning.
I'm curious and interested in honing my craft.
And as a teacher,
I know how important it is to have structure to my learning.
I created the ready set,
right course as a way to share a ton of what I have learned over the past 15 years with you.

(26:32):
It's a comprehensive course that teaches you how to create your protagonist,
antagonist and your supporting characters.
It has lessons on conflict,
story structure and the hero's journey as well as what I call the essential elements of writing,
setting point of view,
dialogue,
mood,
and tone,
and voice.
Plus,
there are lessons on scene,
scene and sequel and motivation reaction unit.

(26:55):
It took me a long time to truly internalize all of this.
And my courses are a way to help you jump the line.
They will guide you through the writing process so you can take the bull by the horns,
so to speak and write with real confidence.
You can find out more about the writer spark courses and ready set,
right at writers spark academy dot com forward slash courses.

(27:16):
I'll see you in the classroom from there.
The podcast was sort of the next step because I,
I initially,
I thought it will be sort of a marketing tool or a mechanism to gain exposure for writer spark.
But then it's also just blossomed into this um this great interesting experience that I get to talk to so many people.

(27:42):
And then I have so many articles that I've written that I've started doing craft podcasts too where it's just talking about a particular subject.
And so that's part of it.
And then the other part is,
you know,
the sort of paying it forward idea.
I mean,
it took me so long to learn all of the things that I now know.
And I wish that I had access to all of the information that is in my head back then.

(28:10):
And so in a way it's just the podcast and the website and all of the articles and all of that as well as the courses is a way to sort of pay it forward to help people get that knowledge without having to spend 10 years gathering at all.
You know,
just a way to,
to give to people who were in our place,
you know,
as we were 10 or 15 years ago.

(28:34):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No,
that's,
that is great.
I love that.
Sorry,
I,
I digressed,
I took,
I took us down another path.
Well,
I appreciate the question.
Um Yeah,
I mean,
it's,
it's,
it's been fun and I think that we both have that entrepreneurial spirit of just diving in and trying something because it sounds fun or interesting or we're intrigued by it and then,

(28:59):
you know,
you just never know where something like that is gonna lead you next.
All right,
let's get back to audio books.
Um So,
first of all,
do you have a list on your website where people can find all of the different things that you've narrated.
Yes.
Yes.
I have samples on my website and um and links.

(29:20):
One of the things I learned really early on in my writing career,
I remember when Amazon developed affiliate links and um my web designer at the time,
she says we're gonna change everything over so that all your Amazon links will,
you know,
presumably earn you a small,
an additional royalty.
And I thought,
oh,
that sounds like fun.
And um so,
you know,

(29:41):
I do the,
those are the,
the ways that I help uh market the,
the audio books.
Um You know,
I try not to step on toes,
but,
you know,
it's certainly a benefit to the narrator to uh promote the book as much as possible.
And um and,
and I think narrators because they're actors,

(30:01):
a lot of them,
they are a,
they're a little bit more in your face about it like on Instagram and book talk,
you know,
in tiktok,
um in terms of helping to lift the audio book and that ultimately helps the author.
And I think that when an author can find someone like that um that is very useful in marketing the book.

(30:22):
So,
yes,
my website has the links,
the samples.
Um I actually need to update it with photos of uh I,
I got a new mic,
so I'm very excited.
I grew up technologically and took a big step forward.
So I have a fancy mic now and um and,
and so yeah,
so it continues to grow uh with the different projects that I take on.

(30:46):
So that's,
I think that's awesome.
I can't wait to look and see it all of the different things you narrated.
So I didn't even know this um about you before we started this conversation.
What,
what um role does the narrator's voice and your tone and all of that?
How does that play into the overall audio experience for the reader?

(31:08):
And what have you kind of learned about that or what could you tell authors who are looking to create audio books or hire a narrator or whatever,
what you know,
what should they look for and how do they evaluate how tone and voice and all of that factors in?
Well,
you know,
they,
I,
I think it's,

(31:28):
it's kind of an instinctive process now.
Strangely,
I have not been the author who looked for a narrator for my books.
And so I think like,
well,
who would I,
you know,
if I decided I wanted to produce my earlier work?
That's a little more steamy.
Um Who would I look for?
So now I'm thinking,
who would I look for?
Uh who would I li what would I listen for?

(31:49):
And um and so i it,
it's that I think when an author is listening to samples.
Um Well,
actually let me back up.
So if an author is thinking about producing or,
or,
or,
or having their work be turned into an audio book and they're not,
um,
in a situation where like Tanor or Penguin Audio,

(32:13):
uh Random House would option the rights for their audio book.
Um If they're gonna do the Diy version,
uh I would first recommend that they start listening to other audio books in their genre to just get an idea.
Do they want um,
someone who has a uh really versatile voice?

(32:34):
Do they want to do a multicast or a duet or a duo that's particularly popular in romance where you have a male and a female narrator?
Um So,
you know,
I suggest that,
that they start there,
start listening to audio books in their genre,
get a feel for,
do they,
what,
what kind of voice resonates with them?

(32:54):
Is it a deep um voice like mine?
Is it a more youthful,
high pitched voice um that you might hear like in,
in a Y A or for a slightly younger character?
Uh And you know,
do they want someone who's more of a,
a performer and,
or someone who's just more of a narrator where the voice is lulling you in and the voice is not necessarily like a character in of itself.

(33:21):
So it's,
it's instinctive.
I think what,
what it is that you prefer as an author,
what would make you feel good about that audio book?
And then,
um so when you then decide.
OK,
I'm gonna do this,
uh going to AC X which is the platform that drives um audible.

(33:42):
And um there are,
there are just lists and lists and lists of narrators.
Um And there is also Authors Republic and there's independent um houses like Pink Flamingo,
uh which does a lot of um they,
they,
their specialty is the steamy romance and,
and they,

(34:02):
uh they,
they produce,
uh they're very busy and they have an amazing roster of um narrators.
So,
uh what's amazing?
I mean,
especially when I look back back in 2016,
when I started narrating my own book of just how many options we have.
Um So it can get a little overwhelming,

(34:23):
but I just say,
start first listening,
get a sense of what's out there.
And um and then listening to podcasts like yours,
not like me,
but um not saying that they should all listen to me because I may not be the right person for them,
but to get educated,
see who's out there.
Another area to search for potential narrators is on social media,

(34:44):
on tiktok and Instagram,
there are many narrators who are hamming it up on their reels.
And so when you use a hashtag search like audio books,
audio book narrator,
voiceover,
that's a great way to find um you know,
diff who,
who some of the people who are out there I use find a way for my audio books that I've had narrated for my indie stuff.

(35:08):
And,
yeah,
finding that perfect voice.
It can be a challenge.
You know,
I don't know how AC X is.
I haven't used that but with,
find a way they give you,
I think it's five,
you know,
you,
you fill out the form and kind of give your parameters and what you're kind of looking for and then they give you five they think might fit the bill and you can listen to their very short um kind of auditions and,

(35:36):
you know,
request a longer audition,
you know,
of your particular book if you are interested in one of them.
And it took me about three rounds to find somebody that kind of fit the bill for my um book Magic series that takes place on the Outer Banks in North Carolina.
So I wanted one character in particular to have a bit of a North Carolina accent,

(35:57):
but not too much of a North Carolina accent and not too slow and not too fast.
And to find that right tone,
I mean,
it was definitely a process to get to that person that I really wanted.
And then also it's not a cheap thing to do either.
I mean,
it's kind of expensive.
So you have to,
you know,
be,
look at their costs and kind of fix factor it in all together and see how that's gonna work.

(36:22):
But it was,
it was a challenge.
We finally did find someone.
I finally found someone,
which was great and I'm really happy with how they turned out.
But,
you know,
it was a challenge,
right?
And,
uh you know,
I sometimes,
you know,
just hanging out with other writers,
we get into informal conversations about audio books and,
uh and so candidly,

(36:42):
you know,
I will just ask,
you know,
is there demand,
are you,
are people asking for audio books?
Do you have the um the following?
Because like you said,
it's a,
it's an investment.
And um and so,
you know,
not for example,
you know,
like with uh with uh you could do this on find a way and on other platforms like AC X or authors or public where you can do royalty share,

(37:07):
but that locks you in for about seven years.
And um and then they have like the royalty share,
the,
the plus where there's like a hybrid and um and then there's the added um responsibility of marketing the audio book.
It's uh it,
it's a different animal than your ebook and your print book.

(37:27):
So it's um ii I,
even though it may not be in my best interest to say this to other authors but to uh to do your homework and,
and see,
is there a demand for my,
you know,
I,
I am my,
my sales healthy.
Are people writing and asking for it uh for the audio book version.
Um Those are things to keep in mind and um And so I,

(37:52):
I per ok,
from personal experience because I narrated my own book.
I didn't finish it.
You know,
I didn't continue the series that I had started.
And so in hindsight,
you know,
maybe would not have done,
I mean,
who knows?
Would have,
should have,
could have,
I won't say that I should not have done it because it's led me down a new and exciting path.

(38:12):
But you may want to see if your series has legs and sometimes that takes five or six books.
And,
um,
and,
and you know that,
you know,
they kind of generate demand for,
uh,
you know,
as your series continues.
So it is,
it's,
it's not something that you just take lightly.
Um,
it is a big investment and,
and uh of not just money but also your time and your energy.

(38:35):
It really is because like marketing your print or your ebooks,
you have to find your target audience.
You have to figure out how you're gonna market,
how are you going to reach them?
You have to create a budget and a plan and not just throw things at the wall and see what sticks,
but,
you know,
actually have a plan on how you're going to find some success with this.

(38:57):
And it's,
it's difficult and that's one more thing to add to the author,
you know,
to your task list,
task list as an author,
uh that takes you away from actually writing,
right?
Which is what we want to be doing.
So,
it's,
it's difficult to find the balance.
And quite frankly,
I've had a really difficult time marketing my audio books because it's just one more thing.

(39:24):
I don't really have the time.
I also don't have the budget to hire somebody.
I don't have the big publisher behind my indie books.
So it is all up to me and it,
it is quite a challenge and so they're not gonna do anything extraordinary until I do something extraordinary to help them along the way.
You know,
I mean,
it's,
it's a balancing game.

(39:46):
Yeah.
Yeah,
absolutely.
And um you know,
and again,
having a narrator who is gonna,
you know,
help you in,
in,
in um marketing the book sometimes that's,
that,
that's something that I,
I'm seeing more and more of narrators are now going to writers conferences and um particularly those who are participating in royalty share deals.

(40:08):
They're a little bit more aggressive and participatory in the marketing because it's in their vested interest.
Um So it,
uh yeah,
I mean,
you know,
that you,
you,
of course,
you never know till you try but because it is a uh a heavy lift and also to your pocketbook,
I,
I recommend that it is something that you take,

(40:30):
uh that,
that you do your homework and make sure that this is something that,
that you can take on.
Yeah,
because audio books are huge.
I mean,
it's a huge industry and just growing from everything that I've read.
So,
I mean,
it,
it is something that we want to embrace and become involved in.
But again,
it's just figuring out how to make it work with your own personal career.

(40:55):
Mhm.
Yeah.
And,
and I have found,
um,
again,
just from my own personal experience as the author having produced,
uh,
my audio book going wide is,
um,
is definitely something that you want to seriously consider.
And,
um,
because,
uh I did mine through,
find a way and uh I'll never forget that one month where I suddenly saw like this is quite a while ago where I had a $400 check.

(41:24):
And I thought,
wow,
where did this come from?
It was library borrows which I was like,
what?
And um,
yeah,
I mean,
I,
I thought there must be a mistake.
This must be,
you know,
$40.
No,
it was from library borrows of the audio book.
So I,
um I do recommend that,

(41:45):
you know,
again,
distribution,
again,
another thing you got to think about,
would you,
uh,
would you benefit from going wide?
And I did.
But then I also came from being a traditionally published author who,
you know,
my readership,
thank goodness,
um,
followed my indie um uh books too.
So,

(42:05):
so,
but it,
with AC X,
so that's the equivalent of Kindle unlimited.
Then you're locked into Amazon.
Is that how that works?
You can opt in to AC X to be exclusive,
which are usually,
which are almost always your royalty share books or you can go wide.
And so your royalty rate percentage is a little bit less.

(42:28):
Um I know that some folks um have experimented where they're exclusive to AC X for,
I wanna say,
is it six or nine months?
I can't remember.
And um and then when that period ends,
they then decide to go wide.
And um so,
so you do have a little bit of flexibility there.

(42:49):
But yes,
if you do,
if you're exclusive with AC X,
then you are um you're,
you're locked in with audible and with itunes.
So you're not like just trapped,
you know,
you do have um you know itunes and,
and,
and the itunes uh bookstore can uh is one of the other than I,

(43:09):
I believe it's like second or third to audible in terms of book sales.
But um you know,
now there's Chirp and there is Libro FM Cobo.
So there are other ways to distribute your audio book with,
find a way you can choose.
They have,
gosh,
I don't even know 30 or more places that you can opt into distribution for.

(43:35):
And I didn't know that about AC X.
I don't know.
I just assumed that it meant you were exclusive with Amazon.
So it's,
I'm glad to hear interested in looking into that now because you can be wide,
you can have all of these other distribution channels then with AC X.
Good to know.
How do you um or do you get involved at all with sort of tracking the performance of your audio books that you've worked on and the success of those books?

(44:04):
Is there any way to,
I don't know,
to,
to sort of track the performance as a narrator?
Yes,
I do.
Spy on my audio books.
Um Yeah,
especially my royalty share books for obvious reasons.
Um And then also using uh my Amazon affiliate link,
I can track how well they're doing on audible.

(44:26):
I mean,
you know,
it's,
I mean,
it's a glimpse because I don't have access.
I,
when I'm in my AC X platform,
I don't see uh sales data unless it's a royalty share book.
Um And uh so,
so that,
that can be helpful.
Um I started experimenting doing um ads on a book bub and because book bub is the Driver for Chirp,

(44:51):
which is Chirp is a,
it's basically book bub for audio books.
Um And so you can either do a,
a sale of your audio book just as you would with Bookb.
And um and then they send these emails out to subscribers who subscribe to very specific uh genres.
And um there's also you can do a paid ad which they then fall at the end of that,

(45:17):
of the emails that they send out.
And um it's a bit like the Amazon ads where,
you know,
you're not guaranteed that you're gonna be in every single newsletter that goes out for,
you know,
women's fiction,
whatever category your book falls your ad falls into.
Um,
but that has been interesting because I've been experimenting with that with my royalty,

(45:41):
share books and seeing how well they do.
Uh,
because I,
I can track with on the book book platform and then also with my Amazon affiliate link and just see like,
hm,
how are we doing?
And I uh it was interesting to see um that uh uh it took a while,

(46:01):
like it kind of,
it was kind of like,
come on,
Betsy,
let's get going.
And then all of a sudden once it hit about 20,000 impressions,
I could then see the buying.
So it took a while but then I started to see that people were buying the audio books and that was,
that was very exciting because it benefits me and the author.

(46:22):
Yeah,
I bet.
Do,
do you hope to leave the day job and start doing this full time at some point?
Is that kind of in your plan?
That would be great.
Although I have to admit having a regular paycheck is really nice.
And um I uh I had apr in a marketing firm,
uh you know,
small business for many,

(46:42):
many,
many,
many years and it was mainly so that I could be flexible with my son's school schedule.
And um and so I end,
yeah,
being a small business is it,
it's the,
the hustle is never ending.
So,
for the time being,
I don't mind giving up my time for,
I do work,
I get paid for it.

(47:03):
It's great.
And,
uh,
I,
I don't have to,
uh,
hustle to get new clients and new projects.
It's,
the work just keeps coming.
Yeah.
So,
yes,
in time in time perhaps.
Well,
you know,
um,
because,
uh,
uh,
with audio books,
I will say this,
that being profitable,
it's a little bit more profitable than being an author.

(47:25):
Um Now that I've done both and um and there are other areas that I can grow into.
I'd love to do audio description,
which is um how do I describe it?
It's narration for people with low vision so that they can experience a movie or a TV show,
even live theater.
Um That is something that I would,

(47:46):
I'm very interested in because I have family who are being impacted by low vision.
And um you know,
the TV is kind of a blur to them.
So they listen to um the actors or the uh one of them.
She loves cooking shows.
So,
you know,
she's listening to the voice of the,
you know,

(48:07):
food Network person.
So that's something that it speaks to my con,
you know,
to,
to my uh to my,
I,
I'd love to give back and,
and do something like that.
That's interesting.
You,
I've um been really going hard into Pinterest lately and they have an alternative text section for every pin that you post and somehow it has an,

(48:31):
an audio um component because it's for people so that,
that can be read to them about that particular pin.
So it,
it's built into that platform,
which I thought was interesting.
I didn't,
I never even thought about that as a,
you know,
kind of an offshoot of that career path.
Yeah,
I mean,
you can,
uh,
if you have a Netflix subscription,

(48:52):
um there is a way to do it with Amazon Prime.
Not all,
not all movies and TV shows have audio description.
Uh but it is interesting because as I was,
um,
um I actually,
I turned it on for my Netflix um for a Netflix show that I was watching and,
um I found myself almost treating it like an audio book because then I would get up or I would be knitting.

(49:16):
I knit a lot when I watch TV.
And I could look away from the screen and if they would say,
and so,
and so walks into the room and she's away,
sometimes they'll describe what the character looks like,
what they're wearing,
what their emotional state is.
And,
um,
it's kind of like a golf voice,
you know,
like with golf tournaments where they're really quiet and they're very intense and,

(49:38):
you know,
she walks in and she's very agitated and then you hear the dialogue and,
you know,
Ok.
I see what's going on.
I,
I can tell what is going on.
Um,
so it's,
it's kind of a neat,
uh,
feature because it is meant for people who are,
are,
uh,
have little vision but now,
you know,
sighted people are using it for the,

(49:58):
you know,
so they can cook dinner and,
you know,
keep up with episodes of Bridgeton or,
you know,
whatever it is they're watching.
Right.
I mean,
it's sort of like subtitles too.
It used to drive me absolutely bananas to have the subtitles on.
But my daughter really wanted them on and not for any particular reason,
she just liked having them and then my parents always have them on because of,

(50:19):
uh,
hearing issues.
And before long I was like,
I need to have the subtitles on and I find myself reading rather than just listening.
I have to make myself stop reading.
So,
just listening.
But it's interesting because you can become really,
um,
invested in that option.
Oh,

(50:39):
yeah.
Even if you don't need it.
What's really strange is that I love subtitles when I love British mysteries.
So sometimes I'm like,
what did they say?
And I turn on the subtitles.
I'm like,
oh,
ok.
Now I know what they're saying.
Oh,
my gosh.
Yes.
For anything Scottish or Irish or,
you know,
British.
Yes,
too.
Um,
and then we watch Korean shows and there's,

(51:01):
you know,
a Finnish Mystery and Icelandic shows,
you know,
so,
obviously you want them for those because you need to understand.
But with the English that you're thinking is that even English,
I have no idea what they just said.
I need the subtitles for that reason too and it's a great thing to be able to have so fun.

(51:23):
Um OK,
so one of the things I heard you say that is a takeaway is that it's not necessarily for everyone,
you know,
especially if you're an indie author,
you really need to think about your financial and your time investment,
the marketing investment and whether you want to,
to go into turning your books into audio books,

(51:45):
because if you do,
you want it to be successful,
right?
And that means you're gonna have to invest some time.
So you have to really kind of self evaluate if you have the finances and the time and the energy and the marketing savvy to put into that.
What other kind of um advice or things do you think that authors should think about when they're deciding?

(52:07):
Especially indie authors?
Because,
you know,
traditional publishers,
they're already invested,
you know,
and if you,
if they option the audio rights or they sell the audio rights,
that's out of your hands.
But as an indie author,
you have to make a decision.
So what else should we be thinking about?
Yeah,
I mean,
the,
the lift um and it spans from production to um to marketing,

(52:33):
you know,
to excuse me,
to distribution,
publishing,
it,
um marketing.
So it is taking on basically another book,
another product.
And um and so just,
you know,
being aware of,
um is there a demand?
I think that's the biggest thing.
Is there a demand for your book to be an audio um among the many,

(52:57):
you know,
I try to try to keep up on all the different,
you know,
uh sales statistics and what is growing and what's not.
Um,
right now,
sci-fi and mystery are growing are,
are,
um,
kind of the top audio books in terms of sales and they don't break that down if that's mystery or,
um,
more than likely it is,

(53:18):
you know,
the traditionally published,
um,
titles that,
you know,
they get some,
you know,
paid placement,
um,
you know,
on the front of the audible of your app.
Uh,
if that's how you're listening,
uh,
romance is growing.
Fiction is,
I think they counted something like more than 60% of the market,
but nonfiction is growing.

(53:38):
Um,
so,
yeah,
just,
you know,
having an understanding if you write something that maybe it's,
if,
if,
you know,
if,
if it's just gonna be harder to get to your readers,
um,
you might want to think about waiting.
Um,
because you also have the option of,
uh,
pitching it to,

(53:59):
uh,
an audio book house,
uh,
where they would then take the option and then it's out of your hands.
Um,
but then you don't get to have uh well,
actually some authors do,
I was actually talking to an author who um she did get to listen to the narrators.
And uh she said,
like,
you know,
it's kind of like when you get your book cover from your publisher,

(54:21):
you just kind of have to agree that that's what you want,
you know,
but you still have no actual input,
right?
You have to see your cover.
But all you can say is yay.
Yeah,
if you're a,
you know,
a big time author,
you probably have more sway as you do in other things.
Um But for those who are midlist or,
or debut authors,

(54:41):
you're really going along for the ride.
And um and then also they said that the creative,
how do I say this in a way that is polite,
you know,
as an author,
can you give up that creative control to a narrator?
Um Because II I,
there,
there is one book in particular where um uh the author would send me samples and I want you to pause or breathe here,

(55:09):
you know,
and I'm thinking,
why wouldn't I breathe there?
Uh But,
you know,
she uh ultimately she did her own audio book.
Um But yeah,
it was,
I'm like,
I,
I don't think you need to do this book.
This is in your voice and,
and you're hearing yourself as you're listening to,
you know what I've recorded.

(55:29):
So,
um it's only happened once and that was a few years ago and,
um,
and I really like that book too but it just,
it happens as,
you know,
she liked the sound of my voice but she wanted it,
she wanted me to be hurt.
That was probably a headache that you seriously avoided.
Right.

(55:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'd be honest,
like,
yeah,
I'd probably be that author too,
you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
um,
what program do you use to edit?
And if you were going to give any tips for somebody who wanted to try what you did and narrate their own book,

(56:10):
what,
what would you say to them?
And what um thoughts do you have about that?
Well,
talk about an investment.
Um Because,
ok,
so this is more of a do,
as I say,
not as I did.
Um you know,
I got an inexpensive mic,
I was recording in an untreated space.
Uh It's amazing anybody listened to my audio,

(56:32):
my first audio book.
Um I mean,
you mean acoustically untreated,
like being in a regular,
I had a little box that I had filled with um audio foam and it just wasn't enough.
Um But I thought it sounded great.
Um And uh and,
and thank God other people did too.
So uh yeah,
so I was in an untreated space and um with a very inexpensive mic and I still to this day use a,

(57:00):
a desktop application called audacity.
It is free.
And um so it is a low cost way.
It's,
uh,
it's how I record and edit,
uh,
my audio books.
And then as I,
as I went along a little more sophisticated,
um,
uh,
you know,
upgraded the mic,
um,
that little guy,
I mean,

(57:20):
he died a sad,
painful death.
But,
um,
but yeah,
so,
but,
you know,
I was,
yeah,
I mean,
I,
I still have it,
I mean,
I still have that mic and I still have that box out of just pure sentiment.
Um We traveled some hard roads together.
Uh So I recommend using a,
he has your recording software and editing software.

(57:44):
Um I also use because I,
I love technology.
So,
you know,
I,
I'm not saying you have to do this,
but I wanted them to sound amazing,
you know,
professional quality.
And um I use a,
a software called Rx Studio Rx Seven.
And so it,
um we,

(58:05):
we don't,
we,
we don't always hear it in conversation,
but now I do.
And um is that our mouths are very clicky because our mouths are wet and they need to be wet.
Otherwise you can't make sound in an audio book when you have the person's voice in your head and you're hearing that,

(58:25):
that kind of smacking sound.
Um that software that I just mentioned Rx seven can,
can remove those things,
it can lessen breaths so that someone's not going,
you know,
in your ears um that it can take occasionally take the rumbling trash truck that goes by your house or the guy who's jack hammering in the backyard to build his pool.

(58:47):
Um It can help,
uh,
you know,
clean up those,
uh the,
the atmosphere of your uh recording space.
And so those are the two,
those are my three tools is the mic and actually,
no,
I have four,
I have an audio book studio,
um,
that I,
I ordered this studio when I was doing,

(59:10):
I think it was my eighth audio book.
And,
um,
it was a big accomplishment.
And,
and so a couple of guys showed up at the house and this,
the,
the walls were just panels and they built it in my office.
And,
um,
I went from a box to recording in a playhouse which did not work and then recording on,

(59:30):
in the staircase in the closet under my staircase.
I felt like Harry Potter to now having a real studio.
Yeah.
And,
um,
and so now I have a,
uh,
much less challenging environment to record and this is actually a window.
Is it a,
oh,
to your office?
Ok.
So it's a little,

(59:51):
um,
like a telephone box kind of a thing?
Yeah,
it's four by four studio.
I don't know how tall it is.
It's pretty tall,
but I'm a short person.
So that doesn't bother me.
But,
uh,
yeah,
it's a little tight in here.
So,
um,
you know,
my husband who's 61,
he's like,
oh,
No,
no,
it's small.
It's hot.
No.

(01:00:12):
But I,
uh,
but I like being in here and I like,
you know,
just me and the characters and the,
the,
the scenarios that are going on and whatever chapter I'm reading.
Um,
it's like,
it's,
for me it's like playing,
it's like when I used to play Barbies,
you know,
they had ongoing dramas and,
um,
you know,

(01:00:33):
affairs and all kinds of things going on.
Yeah.
So for somebody like me,
if I wanted to try this on one of my novellas,
but I obviously don't have a recording studio and I don't even have a box.
I do have a microphone.
What,
what would I,
what would you,
you know,
what do I do?

(01:00:53):
How,
how do I start?
Yeah.
I mean,
a lot of,
um,
like,
uh uh I actually know people who do professional voiceover in a closet with towels and they've got like their little towel,
you know,
for it in their closet and they can record uh,
clean audio.
Um,
I don't know how they do it.

(01:01:14):
I don't think they have small chi actually.
No,
they don't have small Children.
So,
uh and they don't live under an airport,
I'm assuming.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had a,
when I used to record in the closet under the staircase,
uh we had a pug,
he was still with us and um he would sneak in there.
And so I remember one time I was,

(01:01:35):
I mean,
I'm just jamming.
I'm going through chapters and then,
um,
I realize he's under my chair and pugs snore and I thought,
oh,
no.
So,
when I replayed it you can,
you know,
I,
I kept those recordings.
He's no longer with us and you can hear him snoring away through four chapters of that book and I had to go back and do it again.

(01:01:58):
Yeah.
But,
yeah,
if you,
if I in,
um,
you know,
and also,
I mean to record your own book,
um Yeah,
you know,
a,
a small insulated space is,
is the best bet.
So,
you know,
you may have to kind of jerry rig your laptop and your mic and you know,
your clothes or whatever,
you know,
your little chair,

(01:02:18):
however you uh are reading,
I also recommend that you read on an electronic device.
Um,
don't turn pages because you have to edit those out and that's a lot of uh so using a touchscreen is,
is really helpful and also what you wear,
if you wear long sleeves.

(01:02:39):
Um,
anything that is,
uh that's uh like workout material every time you move,
you're gonna hear it in the um,
in the booth and I still do it because I sometimes move,
you know,
and,
and you'll hear me uh brush against,
you know,
the wall or something,
um,
or I creek in my chair.

(01:03:00):
Uh but that's,
um,
that's just me being a perfectionist and um,
but if you are if it's the,
if you're narrating a novella and you want to do,
um it,
it could be a great marketing tool,
you know,
it could be something as a,
as a uh that you can give to your newsletter subscribers,

(01:03:21):
um something that you can showcase um on social media.
So,
you know,
it,
I think,
you know,
and,
and if you're just,
yeah,
I did this myself and I had so much fun playing with my characters.
I most readers are gonna be like,
that's so cool,
you know,
it's good for her.
But when they have to use their audible credit for a full audio book,

(01:03:42):
they're going to be a little more like,
hold on,
what,
what,
what's going on here,
you know.
Yeah,
they'll have a little bit higher expectations than if it's a marketing freebie.
But that's a great point.
Actually,
we have on my fellow narrators are like,
Mary,
shut up,
don't tell them to do their own audio books.
You know,

(01:04:04):
we have a pug too and a chug chihuahua pug mix and another that's um she's adorable.
She's just a big old,
super mixed breed.
But I swear to God they're Clickety clack constantly.
And then whenever I'm doing so,
I'm shocked they're not actually barking.
They haven't barked at anything because I often have to like,

(01:04:25):
mute myself if somebody else is talking and there's dogs barking and then,
yeah,
being our little pug,
he is a massive snore.
So I can totally relate to that.
Oh,
yeah.
Gosh.
I know.
And they,
and they know they know when you're writing.
Oh,
they know.
Oh,
it's time to start a fight.
Let's do it,

(01:04:45):
you know?
Or,
and when they're quiet then,
you know,
they're really up to big,
some big trouble.
So,
yeah,
just like the kids.
Yeah.
This has been so interesting.
I really,
um,
I've learned a lot and I feel really,
you know,
curious to even learn more and to keep going with my indie books and to,

(01:05:07):
you know,
kind of reinvest in marketing them because as I mentioned,
they've kind of fallen by the wayside because I have a limited number of hours in the day.
But I know it is a huge market.
There are so many audio book listeners out there myself included.
So it's,
you know,
it's really something that you could tap into and find a lot of success in as an author to invest in getting your books narrated by someone like yourself.

(01:05:35):
Well,
I,
um you know,
like I said,
I love it and um and a lot of the audio book who I meet in like,
you know,
my workshops,
they um audiobook narrators are just,
you know,
they love stories and they love books.
And so,
you know,
no one normal would choose to be in a tiny hot booth,

(01:05:57):
you know,
hours and hours of reading out loud.
I mean,
no normal person would choose to do that.
So,
you know,
they,
they,
they,
if they've been in it for a while,
they,
they love it and they want to do more of it.
And,
um,
and they want to,
many of them,
they want to help their authors sell audio books.
So if you find that special person who has the voice that you're looking for and is willing to,

(01:06:24):
um,
like,
for example,
I,
I am always asking my uh right now I'm doing a series the Haunted Tea Room mysteries.
And um and so I'm always asking Karen,
Karen Sue Walker is the author.
So I'm always asking Karen,
I'm like,
Karen,
is it OK?
If I publish this video that I made on can and she's,
you know,
she's very gracious,
you know.
Yeah,
you dummy,
please do you know it'll only benefit the two of us.

(01:06:48):
Um And uh and,
and so I love it and I'm like,
but I don't want to like,
you know,
step on toes and make people think that I wrote it because I didn't,
it's yours.
And,
and so yeah,
she's like,
uh yeah,
just please put it up,
you put it,
promote it.
And um and so I like doing those and,
and um yeah,
I mean,
for people who have canvas,

(01:07:08):
you can make videos where you can uh overlay sound on your book cover.
I mean,
there's a lot of little fun ways um you can get very creative if that's something that appeals to you and,
and um you can really have fun with it.
Yeah,
to block out your audiobook hours during the week.
So you make time for that.

(01:07:28):
I will put all of this in the show notes,
including the software um programs that you mentioned.
But where can people find you and find these little videos that you put up?
And are you on Instagram?
I assume are you on Pinterest?
Are you and,
and your website?
Of course,
I'll put up in the show notes as well.
Sure.
My webs,

(01:07:49):
my voiceover site is my author site,
but I use Mary Castillo vo dot com and then um on in,
I'm,
I'm mostly active on Instagram and Facebook and tiktok.
Um So that's where a lot of my videos uh live.
That that's where I'm most active and you,

(01:08:10):
are you taking clients?
Yeah.
Yeah,
I just um yeah,
like I said,
I just did my first book for Penguin Random House and um and another author just approached me to uh do some books for her publishing company.
So I'm moving and grooving.

(01:08:30):
I'm enjoying it.
It's,
it's a lot of fun and uh and uh if it becomes a full time thing,
that would be amazing.
And if it doesn't,
I have the luxury that um I will soon be an empty nester,
right?
And I'm not gonna be like,
you know,
dropping and picking up uh after school or before school.

(01:08:50):
That's kind of a strange new territory for me.
Yeah,
we were empty nesting and now my youngest is back for a gap year for a little while anyway.
So,
just because it happens,
doesn't mean it's forever right then you're like,
hm.
So,
uh,
are you thinking of studying abroad?

(01:09:11):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well,
thank you so much for being here,
Mary.
This was really,
really interesting and so nice to actually see you face to face and have some conversation.
I really enjoyed it.
Well,
thank you and I learned a lot.
Good.
Thank you so much for listening and spending your time with me today.
Everyone.

(01:09:31):
I'm Melissa Bourbon and this is the Writer Spark podcast.
Take a moment to visit our website at www dot writers spark academy dot com.
Check out our courses,
our resources and all the content there and I will see you next time until then.
Happy writing.

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