Ep. 33: The Belong Initiative in the Canadian Tourism Industry

In 2024, tourism was the fifth-largest industry in the world by revenue, and the largest industry globally by employment.

Here in Canada, tourism contributes $102 billion to the economy, and generates over 745,000 jobs in communities across the country.

A tourism industry report noted, more often than not, it’s in the front-line jobs where people who have a disability tend to be hired the most. And it’s often those front-line jobs where the biggest barriers to employment are.

The Beyond Barriers: Insights into Tourism Workplace Disability Inclusion found there’s a bit of a disconnect.

On the one hand, tourism employers have adopted inclusive hiring practices.

But there’s a lack of formal diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility (DEIA) training programs. And a lack of formal DEIA policies. There’s also a lack of professional development opportunities for employees who have a disability.

But the industry is working to change all this, with the “Belong” initiative.

Our two guests give us their perspectives on “Belong”…the current state of tourism sector workplace disability inclusion…and what “Belong” means for the future of the sector.

• Jasmine Qi — Director of Workforce Inclusion at Tourism HR Canada
• Moe Alameddine — The restaturateur who started Canada’s first dining-in-the-dark experience, in 2006, and has since employed over 100 people who have a visual impairment. He’s passionate about disability-inclusive employment in the tourism and hospitality sector.

SHOW NOTES

• Episode 33 transcript (PDF)
• Learn more about the “Belong” initiative
• Learn about the Breaking Down Barriers: Insights into Tourism Workplace Disability Inclusion report
• Learn about Dark Fork and the dining-in-the-dark experience
• Get in touch with Moe Alameddine for mentoring on making your tourism business more disability inclusive
• Get in touch with Jasmine Qi about the Belong initiative

Episode Transcript

Dean Askin (00:02):
This is You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D, the
podcast that explores the powerof inclusion in business, in
employment, in education and inour communities, and why
disability is an important partof the diversity, equity,
inclusion and accessibilityconversation with your hosts,
Amy Widdows and Dean Askin.

(00:28):
Well, hello there. Whateveryou're doing right now while you
listen in, thanks for joiningus. This is episode 33 of You
Can't Spell Inclusion Without aD. PartOne in another two part
series, we're looking atdisability inclusion initiatives
in a couple of key sectors inCanada.
You know, whether you're anarmchair tourist or travel the

(00:48):
country or world to yourfavorite destinations, I've got
a question for you. Any idea howbig the tourism industry is?
Okay now, if you're listening tothis right now and you happen to
work in the travel and tourismsector. Maybe you do already
know the answer to thatquestion, Hi there. I'm Dean
Askin and Well, the answer is,in a word, huge. The World

(01:11):
Travel and Tourism Council says,In 2025 Travel and Tourism is
expected to contribute us $11.7trillion to the global economy.
That's 10.3% of global GrossDomestic Product, or GDP. And
that's up from us $10.9 trillionand 10% of global GDP in 2024

Amy Widdows (01:35):
Wow. That is huge. Dean, hello. I'm Amy widdows
here at the other mic, and Deanthe WTTC says by 2035
one out of every eight jobs willbe in the tourism sector. Around
460 million people employed intravel and tourism worldwide. In
2024
tourism was the fifth largestindustry in the world by revenue

(01:59):
and the largest industryglobally by employment. Here in
Canada, tourism contributes $102billion to our economy and
generates over 745,000
jobs in communities across thecountry. A tourism industry
report noted, more often thannot, it's in the front line jobs
where people who have them, whohave a disability, tend to be

(02:20):
hired the most, and it's oftenthose frontline jobs where the
biggest barriers to employmentare, and only 28% of respondents
to the sector survey who have adisability said they've been
offered a promotion tomanagement.

Dean Askin (02:32):
Amy, the report's titled beyond barriers, insights
into tourism, workplacedisability inclusion, and it
found there's a bit of adisconnect. On the one hand,
tourism employers have adoptedinclusive hiring practices, but
on the other side, there's alack of formal diversity,
equity, inclusion andaccessibility training programs,
a lack of formal Deia policiesin place, and a lack of

(02:56):
professional developmentopportunities for employees who
have a disability.

Amy Widdows (03:01):
But the industry is working to change things. The
belong Initiative is a threeyear federally funded project
aimed at increasing disabilityawareness and inclusion in
Canada's tourism and hospitalitysector. Here to share the
perspectives and insights on thecurrent state of things in the
sector and what the belonginitiative means for the future
are Jasmine Qi and MoeAlameddine.

Dean Askin (03:24):
Jasmine is the Director of Workforce inclusion
at tourism HR Canada. It's thenational HR organization that
works with sector businesses toattract train and retain talent
in the Canadian tourismindustry.

Amy Widdows (03:38):
Moe Alameddine is here with the perspective of an
employer in the tourism andhospitality sector. He started
Canada's first dining in thedark experience way back in 2006
and he's since employed over 100people who have a visual
impairment.

Dean Askin (03:53):
Now, if you happen to be a Montrealer tuning in
right now, you've probably heardof Au Noir.

Amy Widdows (04:00):
And Dark Fork if you're listening in the Ottawa
area, Jasmine and Mo Welcome toyou. Can't spell inclusion
without a D. Thanks for comingon the show to give us your
perspectives on disabilityinclusion in the country's
tourism and hospitality sector.

Moe Alameddine (04:15):
Thank you for having us here.

Jasmine Qi (04:17):
Yeah, very excited to this opportunity to talk
about this.

Amy Widdows (04:22):
Well, we appreciate you being here, and I'd like to
jump in with the first questionfor either of you, or both of
you, how would you describe thecurrent state of disability
inclusion in the tourism sector?Let's start with you. Jasmine.

Jasmine Qi (04:38):
Okay, yeah. So based on my observation, as you also
see from the data shared throughthe report, actually tourism
sector has exceeding theCanadian economy when speaking
of integrating people withdisabilities in the workforce.
And then also, we find that for.

(05:00):
Almost 4 million of people withdisabilities are part of the
labor force, and also 30, around350,000
workers with disabilities arecurrently employed within the
tourism sector. And then once, Ikind of, like after I led the

(05:20):
project, we also observed agreat increase of the awareness
from the sector who is willingto
embark on the accessibilityjourney and to workplace
inclusion. But sometimes thereare still some challenges the
employers are facing. Forexample, when biggest challenges

(05:41):
they are facing is the lack ofawareness and also where to find
the support and resources theyneed to better support this
group of people. As you know,not over 90% of tourism
businesses are small or evenmicro sizes of business, so we
are not talking about businesseswith a full suite of HR

(06:06):
department or even differentdepartments. We are talking
about a business has only one ortwo person or even have less
than 10 employees for them.There they are. There are still
like challenges, eitherfinancially or
policy perspective, to have themto embark their journey.

Amy Widdows (06:29):
Thank you, Jasmine for your insights. What about
you, Moe?

Moe Alameddine (06:33):
I like to
add on what Jasmine justmentioned like, it's very
important.
You know, we're facing lot ofobstacles, like sometimes, just
to give you a little tinyexample, I had a restaurant that
hired deaf people back over 10years ago, and I didn't know

(06:54):
that it was required by law toput emergency light in each
washroom.
So just in case of any so this,to put that little light cost,
1000s of dollars, just for theemployer, like, just to make it
more, like, accessible andinclusive. It's very challenging
for the employers. You know, wehave like, to make sure it's

(07:16):
safe, it's accessible, it's theyknow their space mobility, to
come from home, to go. So it'sall the big picture is, is not
as simple as people think, youknow, but at the same time, it's
not complicated, because I'vedone it, so anyone can do it. I
know I built a lot of experiencein this since 18 years I've been

(07:38):
in this line of business, so, soI have a lot of techniques. I
came with a lot of what the timeyou create your own little
techniques here and there tomake it happen. You know, so.
But yes, there is lack ofinformation from the government,
where to get support, where toget like, you will be in the
circle, like, let's, let's seeme. I invested a lot of money

(08:00):
downtown Ottawa. Now I justneeded a little bit of push,
because I'm coming with a withan idea for my patio to hire
deaf servers, and hiring deafservers on the patio and having
blind servers inside therestaurant. This will be maybe
one of a kind in the world, youknow, to have a deaf and blind
working together in the sameestablishment, sharing the same

(08:25):
kitchen, same bar area, samecommon area. So, so it's very
challenging, you know, like Iremember 10 years ago to get the
sign interpreter, you know,would cost like $40 $35 now what
they will cost like, 70, $80minimum charge two, three hours.
You know, transportation, thisis, this is costly for the

(08:48):
employers. I know, maybe for onetime, it's not costly. But if
you need to train someone, spendtime, you know, like, training
is not free, so, so you have topay the employee, you know, to
come and train, and they'relike, minimum three hours, even
if you they come only for anhour or an hour and a half. So,
so all these little things hereand there adds up for the

(09:09):
employers to get there. Youknow, it's sometimes it's a big
load for the employer.

Amy Widdows (09:15):
Thanks for that, Mo, and I'm gonna jump back to
Jasmine just for a second.Jasmine, what do you think are
the are some parts of thetourism sector more inclusive
than others, or does there needto be more disability inclusion
generally across the sector?

Jasmine Qi (09:33):
I think one thing, what we have observed based on
the labor market information andalso the Canadian disability
surveys, we integrate the dataour research department, and we
find like the highest employmentrate of people with disabilities
actually exist in the recreationand entertainment industry, but

(09:54):
it's already above 74%
and then yet the lowestemployment.
Rate of people with disabilitiesare existing in accommodation
industry, which a wage but whichis also above 63%
so it's hard to

(10:14):
that's only for from theworkforce perspective. So it's
hard to find the data from theenvironment accessibility.
Perspective or the businesspractice perspective, but I
think
as mo also shared, the sectorneeds more information and

(10:35):
awareness about the importanceof accessibility and inclusion,
not only for their ownemployees, but also for their
businesses. So that's why we tryto
provide the informationresources support, and if we
don't have that, we would liketo connect these our sector and

(10:57):
businesses to
the 1000s of service providerswho have been serving the
community for a while to supportpeople with disabilities to
empowerment. So we would like tomake the connection. So as long
as employers has the goodintention, they will know where
to find the support they have.

Dean Askin (11:19):
I want to jump in here for a minute. We said in
the intro that we're going tofind out about the belong
initiative. I went on thewebsite when I was doing my
research for this episode.There's a lot of components to
this. So Jasmine, tell us alittle bit about about the
belong initiative and all thatit involves.

Jasmine Qi (11:38):
Okay, great. So we are very, very lucky to have
this project being funded byESDC employment social and
development of Canada throughtheir Opportunities Fund, and
our project is focused on theemployer's dream. Our ultimate
goal is try to

(11:58):
build
inclusive, diverse, equitableand leading workplaces for
Canadian tourism sector in orderto hire and retain more people
with disabilities. And as younotice that the project is a
very comprehensive umbrellaproject, the report you refer to

(12:19):
is one component of the project,we had collaborated with our
service service providerorganizations such as ccrw and
Canadian

Moe Alameddine (12:33):
CNIB, Canadian National Institute,

Jasmine Qi (12:38):
yeah, Institute of the Blind, we collaborate with
their research team as well toconduct the research, including
the surveys, folks, groupinterviews, analysis of tourism
occupations, to come up with asupport, support of research,
research report. And then wehave also completed a

(12:59):
development of an E Learningcourse. So this is eight module
e learning, navigating onaccessible tourism journey. And
this e learning is developed tofocus on three level of jobs in
the sector, front line, staff,middle managers, supervisors and
senior leaders. And from as yousee, from each positions.

(13:21):
Perspective learners can get theinformation from their
workplaces. Employee to supportpeople with disabilities, for
example, frontline workers canlearn how to support their
coworkers, how to become an allyfor their coworkers and to
accommodate their needs. So wedon't want there is any

(13:42):
misconception of, oh, if youtreat someone
like give you offer someaccommodation to my colleagues.
That's not fair with me. So thatwe don't want that kind of like
a drama concept to exist. Andthen we also the middle manager.
Level of E learning is reallyfocused on supervisory

(14:05):
practices, management in a team,human resource practices, and
also the senior leader. Theme oflearnings is focused on
how to increase integrateaccessibility strategy, either
business strategy in theiroperation, how to develop a KPI
to evaluate this accessibilityin their workplace and beyond

(14:30):
the E learning. We also workclosely with our regional
tourism human resourceorganizations and industry
associations to deliver inperson workshops across Canada.
And then we have multiple typeof events, as I shared, we
connect with local serviceproviders to tourism business

(14:52):
operators so they couldunderstand what's going on in
there, how they could reach outto support what resource.
Is available for them to taketake the benefit from the local
organizations. For example, wejust complete event on April 22
in Niagara fall, where we haveover 100

(15:14):
Ontario tourism operatorsassociations to meet with five
service providers in Ontario.Actually, Odin is one of the
representative on the panel withme as well. And then we also
have the opportunity to organizeone day learning on conference
where we invite keys, note keyskeynote speakers. We invite

(15:37):
business owners, people withdisability themselves, service
providers and panelists throughpanel discussion, workshop
facilitation, to increaseemployers awareness about hiring
people with disabilities and howto integrate with them and how
to provide a properaccommodation. And another

(16:00):
initiative I want to highlightis tourism, workplace
accessibility clinic. I think Mois currently connecting with our
leading consultants in theclinic services. So the concept
is, as we understand, most ofthe tourism businesses are
small, macro size, and they arelack of the HR practices,

(16:21):
certain organization, they evendon't have HR department. So
these clinic services, wepartner with Canadian Center on
rehabilitation work, ccrw andalso McLeod silver business HR
practices. So we have leading HRexperts who have both HR

(16:42):
expertise and working in thetourism sector, as well as
supporting people withdisabilities in their employment
to work together supportbusinesses who have any needs
related to accessibility. Sothis needs can as large as
creating an Accessibility Plan.So for example, we do work with

(17:06):
Air Canada location, and thenthey reach out to us to develop
accessibility strategy for them.And then we also help business
owners like Mo who would like torecruit people with disabilities
for certain positions, and ourservices through the clinic will
connect

(17:27):
employers based on their needsthrough consultancy services.
And we are also currentlyworking on accessibility
accreditation program. We wantto accredit tourism operators
who have built these inclusiveand accessible workplaces for
their employees to be creditedso the public will understand

(17:51):
how these businesses have madethe efforts to support
accessibility and inclusion intheir community, and also to
demonstrate to visitors ortourists, these are the safe
place for you to visit, to enjoyyour experiences. So these are
some of the highlights of thebelong initiative, and it's a

(18:12):
three year project until July2026 definitely.

Dean Askin (18:16):
We are also looking for ways to see how we could
sustain this, as we like to sayon this show you really, this
initiative really is covering itfrom all the angles. You know? I
want to get a sense from each ofyou about why the belong
initiative is so important, kindof like on two levels, on a
broader, general level, andmaybe more you know, why is it

(18:38):
important to each of you on amore personal level.
Mo, would you like to jump in?

Moe Alameddine (18:43):
No, that's okay. Let Jasmine finish first. This
is okay.

Jasmine Qi (18:48):
Okay. So I think I shared with couple colleagues or
people I talk with why it's veryimportant for me. I'd like to
share from the personal levelfirst. I'm a visible minority,
immigrant woman, and English isnot my first language. Before
working to tourism insuranceCanada, I work in local Ottawa,

(19:11):
immigrant serving agency andthen to support newcomers to
find jobs. So as an employmentcounselor at that time, I did
witness challenges, successesfor newcomers when they enter
into Canadian labor market andwhat they need to sacrifice and
what they would like to achieve.In the past, we always educate

(19:35):
or coached newcomers to how youcould adapt to the Canadian
labor market, how you couldadapt to the local cultural
environment. But what we havemissing, or what we have missed,
is the barriers existing in theenvironment, the barriers
existing in the system, if weconstantly coach individuals to

(19:58):
adapt to a bear.
Environment that won't sustainand people won't become their
bring their true, authenticselves. So I really want to, so
that's why I'm I, I have abackground of law. That's why
justice is always very importantto me. And then I'm thinking

(20:19):
about, Oh, what should I do?What could that? Could I do to
have a bigger impact, to makemore rather than educate
individuals to change, to changehow we could change a little bit
about the environment. So thatreally motivate me to work for a
sector. So I think this changecan be brought into a bigger

(20:42):
level, to change the environmentthe system, rather than change
individuals. And then I appliedto job in tourism, in charge
Canada. And very appreciate theopportunity. And for me, like
the belong project is reallyabout
I could share my husband duringthe pandemic or right before the

(21:05):
pandemic has experienced,experienced severe depression
and anxiety, and then I was ascaregiver. I really observed the
challenges he experienced, andalso as a caregiver I
experienced. So it was not asmooth journey, and also all of

(21:26):
the anxiety, like the triggersof the anxiety and depression,
comes from the workplace. Sowhen he started feel the needs
of accommodation, and even whenhe he went to see the doctor.
The doctor recommend he couldhave some accommodation. He

(21:47):
shared the needs ofaccommodation to the employer,
and after two weeks, theemployer laid him off. I really
don't want something happen tohim, to happen in anyone like
him in the workplace, so I thinkthis is great drive for me to
once I heard of this opportunityfund opening the application,

(22:09):
and then I
kind of discussed with myleadership team to write up the
proposal, and definitely withSome of the research under to
try to ensure when we thinkabout people with disabilities,
not only about people withphysical disabilities, and
especially mental health, isvery important. And then how we

(22:32):
could ensure a business
can take a proactive approach or

Unknown (22:40):
think about this before anything happened, rather than
the sought after approach. Sothat's why, that's my connection
with the project, and it'sreally resonate with my own
value, or personal value,professional value. And the
bottom of heart,

Jasmine Qi (22:58):
that's a, that's a that's a deep personal stake.

Dean Askin (23:01):
You've taken a personal, you know, I can hear
the passion in your voice aboutwhy this is important, yeah. And
you've taken, basically, like,taken the personal approach so
that, you know, the similarkinds of things don't continue
to happen on a broader societallevel.
Yeah. Thank you for that. Mo,what about you? Why is the why

(23:21):
is the belong initiativeimportant and being involved in
it?

Moe Alameddine (23:24):
I was originally in a fast food business a while
ago, like long time ago, until Isaw
similar idea in Switzerland. Iwas in Switzerland, in Zurich,
and I saw, like, hiring blindpeople. I said, I'm going to
bring that idea to Montreal anddo it. That was back in 2006

(23:45):
18 years ago.
And when I started, it was lotof challenges, as Jasmine
mentioned, like, you know,adaptation challenges. But I was
lucky that the Quebec governmentright away stepped in and they
said, would support you whateveryou like, I was like, I didn't
know what to do. Like, I didn'thave any experience any one of
them. My family was blind.Everyone always asked me, like,

(24:09):
any of your family members areblind? No, none of them, you
know, so. But that doesn't meanI don't want to work with
disability, you know, like, andwe have to focus on something
that I noticed from myexperience, working with deaf
people is completely differentthan working with blind people,
deaf people, they have their ownculture. We call it deaf

(24:32):
culture. Deaf language, Deaf youknow, like, like, when you when
you work with them, you learnlike,
what I'm trying to do is tobreak all these barriers, to put
people to bridge peopletogether. We don't want to see
only people with disabilitiessitting and answering phone
calls, which I'm not trying tounderestimate the job of

(24:52):
receptionist or anything. It'sjust we want to see them more
like integrating in the societylike.
I mean, everybody should beinvolved in this, not only the
government, even the people therestaurant owners. Like, do you
know, I'll give you something tolike, you know, a Braille menu.
Just a Braille menu. To make aBraille menu cost two, $3 maybe

(25:16):
some people don't know thatinformation. How many
restaurants you go and they havea Braille menu. I would say 123,
not more, you know. So likesmall things to put people,
like, make, break barriers hereand there, you know. Like, I
don't want, like, my, let's saydeaf friend. I don't want to

(25:37):
order for him food. I want himto to to order his own food, you
know, so that we want to putpeople together, that's very
important to me. 1/3 of ourrestaurant now employed the
blind people. So let's say wehave 2223
employees, and total at darkfork, we have 1/3 of them are

(25:59):
blind or visually impaired.We're adding to that another
maybe six or seven deaf persons.So, so which will increase the
disability ratio? Which wouldnow the percentage will be,
let's say, 45%
with disability, and 55 no nondisability. So which is very

(26:20):
good, and an establishment likeus to maintain that these
numbers, you know, like, if Isee other places only higher 10%
and commit to that, then we willbe in a very better situation.
There's a lot of turnover ofemployees in the restaurant
business. But with disability,once you train them, it's an

(26:40):
investment for you. It's like,there's there for you. They're
with you all the time, like,until, I mean, they retire or
something, or they have a betterjob, which I always encourage
them to, always take courses andand with the time, as I
mentioned, we created our owntechniques, like, I trained them
like, and after a while, one ofthem will train the other. So,

(27:02):
which will be helpful a lot, youknow, once they have lot of
experience, you know, like, theycan train each other. Because if
you get, like, two deaf people,they can talk faster than me
having a translator. And I mean,interpreter or so, once you
train them, you invest in them.Then it will roll and it will
grow and it will Yeah, so that's

Amy Widdows (27:23):
well, I love your approach, Mo, and I feel like
you are a leader in thisindustry, that's for sure. And I
want to just jump in with onequick question for you, Mo,
before we move to Jasmine. Butwhy this initiative now? In 2025
why hasn't it happened before?Do you think

Moe Alameddine (27:41):
for me, it happened before. For me, it
happened before. Like, I've doneit for 18 years, you know, like,
I remember very good in 2012
when we opened the Vancouverlocation, the president of the
CNIB, John Rafferty, at thetime, he came to Vancouver's
open, like he was there with me,you know, like I was on, like

(28:04):
they're all over Canada the sea,and they were very supportive to
me, like, by
providing always, like
candidates to come apply forjobs. And, yeah, but yeah now to
have the blind and the deaf atthis time, because I found that
I would open a patio, and whynot having something different,

(28:28):
you know, like so I thoughtabout, you know, what? The Deaf
never worked here in Ottawa, insuch like a nice, beautiful
patio or a restaurant, orthey've done it in Toronto.
We've done it in Vancouver, butno one did that initiative here
like in Ottawa, this project,and I'm sure it will succeed.

(28:50):
You know, I'm always positive,and I look at the always the
plus, you know, the positivityof of it. It's gonna be
sustainable. Every year, thepatio will be for deaf people.
It's gonna be a landmark in thecity. It's gonna be so and we're
gonna hire more and more andmore. So that's how we're gonna
do it, hopefully, yes.

Amy Widdows (29:12):
And for the listeners out there, CNIB is an
employment service provider likeJasmine mentioned earlier.
Organization is national and anddoes provide employers and job
seekers both support throughoutthat journey of disability
inclusion employment. So to you,Jasmine, why this initiative now

(29:35):
in 2025
and why hasn't it happenedbefore?

Jasmine Qi (29:39):
So do you refer the initiative as the belong the
belong project?

Amy Widdows (29:43):
Yes.

Jasmine Qi (29:43):
So I think in our sectors, the supporting of
integrating people withdisabilities to employment, to
tourism, employment has happenedin the past, but maybe, as Mo
said, is just not in a biggerscale or in a more pro.
Minute scale. So employers mayhave already started their work

(30:04):
by themselves, and then so once,as you know, nonprofit sector,
we always depends on the fundingand the funding from government
levels. So when once we find outthe opportunity through the
Opportunities Fund, and I alsoknow that the employer stream is
a new stream just added in 2022

(30:27):
and we submitted the projectproposal, and it was funded
starting from August 2023
so we have been and this year isa very easy, interesting year
for us, because, as you know,most of the elements we do need
to start from to starting fromthe development phase, like the

(30:49):
research or the work underunderground work needs to happen
before anything can be launched.So the first half a year, the
our organization, the team. Wework closely with external
consultants, contractors todevelop the accountants, the
tools, and now this year, we areable to launch multiple

(31:12):
initiatives so can directlybenefit the employers.

Dean Askin (31:18):
So I want to talk a bit, a bit about, you know,
maybe some of the things you,you, you've mentioned, sort of
lead to that disconnect, thosedisconnects that the beyond
barriers, you know, reportrevealed, I mean, it showed that
on the one hand, 64 I mean, it'spretty good number. I mean, 64%
of tourism players, they haveadopted inclusive hiring

(31:38):
practices, but then less than35% of sector employers, you
know, I've got those formal Deiapolicies and programs in place
and and the training programs,and then, you know, there's less
than 40% support forprofessional development,
professional development ofemployees who have a disability.
Meaning, so why do you thinkthose disconnects are happening.

(32:01):
Jasmine,

Jasmine Qi (32:02):
so I think there are multiple levels of aspects for
this question, like thedisconnection happening. First
of all, as I shared majorityover 90% of our sectors,
employers are small size andthis and even macro size. So
they are not have, they may nothave a formal policy structure.

(32:26):
So that's why, when we kind oflike a survey, them, even there
may not be have, there may notbe a formal policy. But that
doesn't mean there there is nota practice. So to put they may
already have the daily practicesof this inclusive hiring or
workplace environment. If youtalk with most of our service,

(32:50):
service, like businesses, theyrarely focus on fostering the
family oriented workenvironment. But not all of them
put, all of these practices intoa structured policy. So that is
why, if they have the hiringintentions or the practices,
they may not have a formalpolicy per se. And also in the

(33:14):
tourism sector, there are also
because of the flight andorganization structure or
smaller size of businesses, thecareer progression opportunities
may not exist in certainorganizations, in certain
businesses. For example, somesmall businesses, they only have
two levels business owner orstaff, so that definitely, in

(33:37):
this type of environment, ishard to have the career mobility
if anyone aims to climb theladder. So, so that's why one
thing we'd like to encourage jobseekers or service providers to
think about the career mobilityis not only about the vertical
mobility of the career ladder isalso about the horizontal or the

(33:59):
kind of like expanding theexperiences they have, the
knowledge they have, even thoughthey may not be able to promote
in this particular organizationor business, if the job seekers
or employees have the skillsknowledge experiences they can,
it will be easier for them Tofind jobs anywhere else to align

(34:22):
with the skills experiences theyhave gained at that time, and
also certain I think anotherbarriers are in certain
occupations. If we talk aboutthe career mobility for people
with disabilities, is certainoccupations, there are
occupational barriers. Forexample, certain occupation may

(34:42):
require longer working hours ornot the schedule may not be able
to be as flexible as they wish.So in this case, also, as mo
shared in the food batteryservices sector, the work speed.
Super fast, and then thedemanding from the customers

(35:04):
sometimes is also quite quiteheavy. And adding this
occupation, the barrier existingin the occupation itself, so
this may have certaindisadvantages or barriers
presented to people withdisabilities and as well as the
training opportunities may notavailable in every single

(35:27):
businesses, especially forsmaller practice business
operators, they may not havethey don't have HR department,
they don't have the trainingavailable. So that's why we
that's all of the barriers whenwe develop the project, we think
about that. So we try to makesure that we could provide the
services to the support to thesector. Ensure small businesses

(35:51):
can access to these services andto these trainings, to these
toolkits or clinic services, aslong as they have the good
intention want to make the workbetter.

Dean Askin (36:03):
Mo, what do you think as an employer, is it just
the nature of, you know, the waya smaller employer operates that
they don't have the samestructure as, you know, say,
like a multinational corporationwith, you know, several offices
across the country?

Moe Alameddine (36:16):
Yes, of course, when it's a big company and they
have an HR department and like
procedures and booklets andwhatever and training and
everything is structured is mucheasier, you know, than a small
company, the big companies, theyare not making enough effort to

(36:37):
hire people with disability. Youknow, I'm seeing it like this,
just, I have to be honest, Idon't lie, you know, like,
when you go to a big namerestaurant, you know, you can
see two hostesses. How about ifone of them is deaf? There is
nothing wrong with that, youknow, like, it's very easy
nowadays, all reservations aredone on iPads and on it's not

(37:00):
even though, I mean, there issomething called a little
booklet. You can just write yourname and then they can check it.
You can simplify. It's notcomplicated too much, you know.
But if there is no how we seeit, no, they should be having a
will, you know, to be they needto do the initiative. They need
to do the will to to hirepeople, you know, like,

(37:23):
like, if I've done it, anyonecan do it.

Amy Widdows (37:25):
Thank you for that. Mo,
I have two questions, so I'llstart with jasmine, and then
I'll move on to a question forMo, but Jasmine, more often than
not, people who have adisability are hired in those
frontline jobs in the tourismsector, but this is a sector
with the most barriers toemployment, and only 28% of the
people who have a disability whoresponded to the Beyond barriers

(37:48):
report survey said that they'vebeen offered promotion to a
managerial or supervisory role.Why do you think this is
happening?

Jasmine Qi (37:57):
Yeah, I think this is a great question, and we we
that's also what we really tryto achieve through the belong
project, to increase employersawareness about people with
disabilities, skillscompetencies to be promoted in a
higher position. Like to supportpeople with disability in their
career mobility. But as I sharedpreviously, there are some

(38:20):
barriers existing in theoccupation itself, in the
environment, and maybe also somediscrimination or attitudinal
barrier. So as you see, if theemployer is a very small size,
there is no other opportunitiesto promote them, either business
owner or staff, since thebusiness ownership is now that

(38:42):
too easy to change, that is whythey may not have the career.
They may not have the promotionopportunity existing. So that is
one thing and another thing as
as most yard, most of thetourism jobs are really needs to
work, not from home, most of thejobs and then so this ready from

(39:03):
the job itself, limits theopportunities as well. But what
we have been done through thebelong project is try to
understand what are some of thebarriers existing in the
occupation itself, and how wecould encourage employers to
customize the job, customize thejob opportunities, or that tasks

(39:23):
responsibilities to ensurepeople have the have the
opportunity to earn theexperiences when they grow up
from the ladder. And also, Ithink, another, another
barriers,
it can be, maybe maybe fromboth. For example, most of the
managerial jobs requires peoplehave

(39:48):
experiences or have long, longor working schedules. And some
and as we all know, disabilityis a comprehensive, uh.
Level or a matter is not onlyone size of disability or one
level with disability, one type.So there is, there is no one

(40:08):
size fits all solution. And thenfor certain type of types of
disabilities, they may not beable to work for long hours,
long working hours, or for for aday, or they may need more,
like, flexible workingschedules. And also, some of
them, the policy, for example,like, like the disability

(40:32):
benefits prevent people workinglonger period of times, because
what I understand is, if youwant to receive the benefits
from the government, you do needto work in a limited time or
period. So you couldn't workabove certain hours, otherwise
your benefit will be calledback. That this is another

(40:54):
barrier for people withdisabilities to working longer
period of time or even a fulltime position and then move up
to the ladder. And also anotherthing is attitudinal barrier is
existing, not only for peoplewith disabilities, but for
visible minorities or people ofcolor or all of these

(41:17):
underrepresented groups. So likethey there are still that type
of concept. They think peoplefrom these underrepresented,
under represented groups are notcapable, are not competent. And
then I think the things we aretrying to do is we want to

(41:39):
advocate for an equalopportunity. So this opportunity
rarely, regardless of theperson's race, genders,
abilities, they all deserve anequal opportunity to grow to be
promoted. One thing I shared atmy LinkedIn articles like even

(42:00):
though I'm either, as I sharedas a visible minority, immigrant
woman, English is not my firstlanguage, even though sometimes
I may not, I may not understandthe jokes, or I don't play golf,
I don't talk about the hockey.But that doesn't mean I'm not
capable. Doesn't mean I'm Icouldn't I couldn't complete the

(42:22):
work. So when, when our leaders,think about who you are going to
promote, you already need tomake the intentional efforts.
You are not promoting people whotalk you, who talks the loudest,
or always discuss hockey withyou, always have the small talks
with you. So as long as you havea standard, you ensure all

(42:44):
individuals have the opportunityto compete. I think that's what
we really try to do.

Amy Widdows (42:51):
Thank you for that, Jasmine.
Back to you for a second. Mo,you started Canada's first
dining in the dark restaurantdining experience way back in
2006
in Montreal, and since you'veemployed over 100 people who
have a visual impairment atrestaurants in Toronto,
Vancouver and most recently,Ottawa, the dark fork.ca

(43:16):
website describes you as avisionary. Do you think of
yourself as a visionary, and whywas it important to you to start
these restaurants andintentionally be a disability
inclusive employer?

Moe Alameddine (43:29):
When I saw the first idea, it came to me like
2006
I saw it in Switzerland, and Isaid, Wow, what's this? You
know, we should do that. Weshould why we don't have that in
Canada, why we don't have thatand, and I used to live like in
Montreal at the time, you know?
And I said, Okay, I'm gonna doit. And I, you know, everyone is

(43:50):
telling me you're crazy and youyou're losing your money, you're
gambling with your money, yourlook now like where, I mean,
most of the people who told methat they closed and I'm still
surviving. You know what I mean?Like at the end of the day
again, it's not
easy. It was very difficult tobuild this project like but now

(44:16):
it's easy now for me, becauseit's repetitive, with better
improvement in each location wedo and, yeah, but I mean, there
is no like, just like, I needthese people to be involved in
the restaurant business. Youknow, as Jasmine mentioned that

(44:37):
minority should be involvedlike, or either disability or
any other like, they should bemore involved in the community.
Like, it's very sad when I heardthe first time, 10 years ago, I
heard I never knew aboutsomething called Deaf culture,
to be honest with you, I wasvery sad. I said, why? You know?

(44:57):
Like, why is they have their ownculture?
Are there, like, I don't want tochange the world myself. It's
just like I said, Let's makework together, put them
together. Let's see what's thechallenges we can play around
it, I mean, and we succeeded.

Dean Askin (45:13):
I want to, I want to jump on this for a minute. And
you know,
Mo, what's your as an employer?And Jasmine, I'll get your
perspective as well. But Mo, asan employer, what's your best
advice to other employers in thesector? Is it just now jump in
and do it like you have.

Moe Alameddine (45:32):
You know, first of all, you have to believe and
and like on what you're doing.So my advice people, they should
have initiative. They shouldcome with it. When I started
back 18 years ago, peopletelling me you're crazy. You're
gambling with your money, youknow, I mean, but I had always
in mind, no, I'm gonna do it andI'm gonna succeed. Somebody need

(45:55):
to keep bugging them like youhave to hire, you have to hire,
you know, like you need to hire,they need to be more back than
more involved with it. You know,like big hotel names, big we
need to see more people withdisability working.

Dean Askin (46:10):
Jasmine. Is there, you know, most very passionate
about his advice for employersthere. I mean,
is there anything you think youknow that that you would say
that would be your best adviceto other employers in the
sector,

Jasmine Qi (46:27):
I think it will be very easy, just do it. Don't be,
don't, don't be afraid of makingmistakes. We are not perfect. As
long as you have a good will,just do it and we have the
support to help you do itbetter.

Dean Askin (46:43):
Yeah, you've both sort of and, well, you've sort
of really touched on, you'vereally touched on this, and
you've sort of, you know, you'veyou've come back and shared that
the same thought several times.And I think maybe that's your
most important message when yousay, there needs, their need.
There just needs to be moreemployers doing this. There
needs to be more support. Sowhat's the most important

(47:06):
message you want people to takeaway from this conversation,
especially if you know ifthey're running a business or
working in the tourism sector?

Moe Alameddine (47:17):
So you see William Shakespeare, I have a
big quote in my restaurant thatsays, There is no darkness but
ignorance. So, so employers needto work more like they don't
have to be ignorant for suchthing. You know, they have to
make an initiatives so, so, soif we don't put our hands

(47:38):
together and blend thingstogether. It's not gonna happen,
you know, no matter what youmight find money and for the
government, for employers, butif the employers are not doing
like I did the search, I did mypart, and I found my way, you
know, like I found Jasmine, youknow, she's opened the door for
me. You need to start with theinitiative. Employers need to

(47:59):
start doing that first step, youknow, knock the door, you know.
How can I do this? And trust me,if you have the will, you can do
it, you know, if you have, youknow, like you need just to
start making the initiative, tosay, I need to hire one, a
person with disability, in mycafeteria, let's say, or in my,

(48:20):
I don't know Hotel.

Dean Askin (48:21):
Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Passion.
Jasmine, what's your what's themost? What's What would you say?
The most important message totake away from this conversation
is,

Jasmine Qi (48:33):
I want to share about as we all know, disability
is can be temporary, can bepermanent, can be episodic, and
not all of the disabilities arepeople born with that. So think
about ourselves, or think aboutsomething we loved we never
know, or if a disabilitysituation will happen to

(48:57):
ourselves or not in the future,right? No one could guarantee
that. That's why, when you dothe work, you are doing good
work for yourself and for yourfamily, for the for your
friends, for someone you love,and I really love most
statement about to give them achance, they will prove that you
are not you make

(49:19):
the good choice. Yeah, and also,don't forget to reach out to me
for the employers and tourismsector. So if you are doing if
you don't know how to start andour project belong, can help you
start the way you want.

Amy Widdows (49:33):
I would just like to follow up with that Jasmine
and ask you what's been thefeedback so far about the belong
initiative,

Jasmine Qi (49:43):
so we definitely receive lots of great feedback,
very positive. So either throughthe events, we offer to connect
local service providers totourism operators, or from the
report we shared on our website,um.
Everyone, all the events wereorganized as a one day
conference, and we, I think mostof the attendees of the

(50:08):
activities really mentioned thatthe activity they participate
increase their awareness ofdisability, inclusion and
accessibility in the workplace,right?

Amy Widdows (50:19):
So this is a three year project.

Jasmine Qi (50:22):
Yeah,

Amy Widdows (50:23):
what do you anticipate or hope will be the
result of it? And what needs tohappen for there to be a new
state of lasting businesses asusual, on disability, inclusion
in the tourism sector, a newstate of normal at the end of
belong and it not being a oneand done?

Jasmine Qi (50:41):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's very important. Also
changing people's perception isa journey. Is not a one time off
thing. And I always share withmy colleagues, the work we are
doing is not the easy work. Weare working on changing people's
perception, and that's normallythe hardest part to do. So

(51:02):
that's why we we are the
ultimate goal in the end of thethree and the end of this three
year, we aim to increase tourismemployers. Awareness of hiring
people with these disabilitiesis an important action, and then
making sure their workplaces isaccessible and inclusive.

(51:24):
I think that's the first stepincrease employers awareness
about disability inclusion inthe workplace, and then
hopefully, through the work,especially the accessibility
clinic services, or some of theworkshop Training Connection we
made, we hope employers couldactually hire at least one
people with disabilities andretain them in the next 12

(51:47):
months after they participate inthe project. And definitely, we
are always looking foropportunities to continue this
project, and then especiallycontinue the support we could
provide to the sector andemployers.

Dean Askin (52:04):
Amy, I don't know about you, but the passion and
the voices of our two guestshere has just been, you know,
bursting out of my headphonesthrough this whole through this
whole conversation, you've bothmade so many great points. I
mean, before we wrap things uphere at the end of the talk, you
know, have we covered all thethings you think are important
to talk about? Is there anythingwe haven't talked about that you

(52:26):
think is important to mentionbefore we wrap it up?

Jasmine Qi (52:29):
I think we definitely covered a lot, and
then I think most of them arealso very important to be
covered. I didn't think anythingwe are like us.

Amy Widdows (52:40):
Well, thank you, Jasmine and Joe, thanks again
for coming on the show andsharing your insights about the
belong Initiative and the stateof things. You're going to have
to come back on the show a bitdown the road and at the end of
the belong initiative and fillus in on how the tourism sector
has evolved with disabilityinclusion as a result of belong.

Dean Askin (53:00):
You know, we always try to ask really great,
insightful questions on thisshow. And you know, Amy, you
know, what I was always taughtwas, you know, if you ask that
last question and your guestsays, No, I think we have
covered everything. That meanswe've done our job as
interviewers really well andasked some great questions and
covered everything. So it's beena great conversation. So thank
you for me as well Jasmine Mo, Imean, here's hoping the belong

(53:22):
initiative leads to solving thesector's labor challenges
through even more disabilityinclusive hiring. I mean, who
knows, maybe we'll see that 64%of tourism employers that have
adopted inclusive hiringpractices get up to 75 or 80% I
mean, wouldn't that be great?You know, it'd be nice to see
that happen over the nextdecade. Because I think tourism
HR, Canada did a report a fewyears ago I came across about

(53:45):
the future of the industry thatsaid there could be a shortfall
like 93,000 year round jobsgoing unfulfilled by 2035 and we
all know that kind of inhibitsindustry growth for sure. And
you know, I have to say I didn'treally realize just how big the
tourism sector is, not only inthis country, but globally,

(54:06):
until I was doing my researchfor this episode,

Amy Widdows (54:10):
yes, it puts a whole new perspective on
visiting landmarks like NiagaraFalls or watching Life in the
18th century reenactors atfortress Louis Bird, Nashville,
hit historic site on Cape,Breton Island, Nova Scotia,
doesn't it? You know, it doesn'tmean, and I have to say, you
know, history is my thing. Andyou know, I think Louisbourg is

(54:30):
fantastic, and watching thosereenactors is always incredible.
And, you know, and

Dean Askin (54:37):
the thought of, you know, that whole new perspective
gave me a flashback towel byalmost breakfast summer
industry.
I think it was back like duringmy last year of high school. I
know I thought I'd apply for ajob at Centreville, for people
who aren't familiar. That wasthe amusement park on Toronto
center island. And, you know, Igot over there, and I took the

(54:58):
boat over and I went to thegroup.
Interview is the first group inthis I thought, no, that wasn't
for me. I just didn't like thevibe. So, you know, I think I
ended up working for a plumbingcompany as a summer student, you
know, bashing and smashing inthe concrete floor of a church
basement where they were fixingthe piping.

Amy Widdows (55:18):
I think Centerville would have been a way more fun
summer for you, Dean. And thatbrings us to the end of another
smashing episode of You can'tspell inclusion without a D. I'm

(55:39):
Amy widows. Thanks for tuningin. Hope you'll join us again
next month for part two of oursector series. We'll be finding

Dean Askin (55:49):
Yes, it certainly is. That's going to be another
great conversation with a coupleof really dynamic guests talking
out about the entire sorry.We'll be finding out about
about ihtr. I'm Dean Askin.Thanks again for listening
wherever, whenever and onwhatever podcast app you're
inspire, hire, train and retaininitiative to increase
listening from, join us eachepisode as we have insightful
conversations like this one withJasmine Z and Mo allamed Dean
disability inclusive hiring inthe healthcare sector here in

(56:11):
about the belong Initiative andthe state of disability
inclusion in Canada's tourismindustry, and explore disability
the province of Ontario, Canada,that's coming June 17.
inclusion in Business and in ourcommunities from all the angles.
You can't spell inclusionwithout a D, as produced in
Toronto, Canada by the OntarioDisability Employment Network.

(56:31):
Our podcast production team,executive producer and co host
Amy widdows, our producer is Suedefault associate producer and
co host Dean Askin. Audioediting and production is by
Dean Askin. Our podcast theme islast summer by ixin. If you have
feedback or comments about anepisode, email us at info at oda
network.com that's info at o d,e, n, e, t, w, O, R, k.com, join

(56:56):
us each episode for insightsfrom expert guests as we explore
the power of inclusion, thebusiness benefits of inclusive
hiring and fostering aninclusive culture, and why
disability is an important partof the diversity, equity,
inclusion and accessibilityconversation tune into. You
can't spell inclusion without adean podbean or wherever you
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