June 17, 2025 • 46 mins
It’s definitely no secret — there’s a general labour shortage in Canada that’s going to last until about 2030. It’s affecting just about every sector. Perhaps none more than the health care sector.
There’s a labour crisis in the sector that’s affecting — among other things in hospitals, wait times in emergency rooms; and often whether some smaller communities even have an open ER or hospital at all.
So what’s to be done about the staffing crisis in pretty much every hospital in every province? And how do people who have a disability, and disability-inclusive hiring, fit into this?
There’s a new initiative in Ontario aimed at solving the hiring, training and retention crisis in the health care sector. In Ontario, at least. It’s aptly named Inspire, Hire, Train, Retain. Or, IHTR for short. It’s a disability-inclusive hiring “training in the box” solution.
It’s a collaborative initiative led by Holland Bloorview Kids Rehabilitation Hospital in Toronto.
Our two guests for this episode are deeply and intrinsically involved in spearheading the development of IHTR. Catch this dynamic, engaging conversation with:
- Laura Bowman, Project Manager, Research and Evaluation at Holland Bloorview
- Lori Riding, Manager of Disability and Absences Management at Halton Healthcare in Oakville, ON
SHOW NOTES
- Episode 34 transcript (PDF)
- Learn more about the IHTR project
- Check out the IHTR resources: English version | French version
- Get in touch with Laura Bowman about IHTR: lbowman@hollandbloorview.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dean Askin (00:00):
Announcer, This is You Can't Spell Inclusion
(00:04):
Without a D, the podcast thatexplores the power of inclusion
in business, in employment, ineducation and in our
communities, and why disabilityis an important part of the
diversity, equity, inclusion andaccessibility. Conversation with
your hosts, Amy Widdows and DeanAskin.
(00:28):
Hello there, and welcome to theshow. This is episode 34 of You
Can't Spell Inclusion Without aD. Whether you're listening
while you drive or while youride the train or fly to
wherever you're headed while youwork, or while you're walking
the dog, or maybe you're settledin your favorite chair with a
cup of tea right now. Thanks forjoining us for part two in our
(00:48):
sector series. This episode,we're taking a look at Canada's
healthcare sector through adisability employment and
disability inclusive hiringlens. If you haven't tuned into
part one yet, be sure to dothat. A great conversation about
the belong initiative toincrease inclusion in the
tourism and hospitality sectorin this country. That's episode
(01:09):
33 Hi there. I'm Dean Askin andwell, it's definitely no secret.
There's a general labor shortagein Canada that's going to last
until about 2030 it's affectingjust about every sector, and
perhaps none more than thehealth care sector. There is a
labor crisis in the sector, onethat's affecting, among other
(01:29):
things, in hospitals, wait timesin emergency rooms and often
whether some smaller communitieseven have an open ER or hospital
at all.
Amy Widdows (01:39):
That's right, Dean at its 2022 Health Human
Resources symposium, HealthCanada summed it up this way,
and I'm quoting here, the HealthHuman Resource crisis is one of
the greatest challenges facingCanada's Health Care System
today, including a dwindlingsupply of health care workers,
low retention and workplaceconditions that place undue
(02:00):
pressure on workers. Hello. I'mAmy widdows here with you at the
other mic. By the way, if you'relistening to this from part of
the world, other than Canada,and you've never heard of Health
Canada, it's the federalgovernment department that
administers national healthpolicy and nationwide standards
of medical service in thiscountry.
Dean Askin (02:19):
That's right, but delivering health care services
and hiring, training andretaining health care workers?
Well, that all falls under thejurisdiction of each individual
province and territory. Sowhat's to be done about the
staffing crisis in pretty muchevery hospital in every
province, and how do people whohave a disability and disability
inclusive hiring fit into this?Well, keep listening, because
(02:42):
the answers to these questionsare the focus of this episode.
Amy Widdows (02:46):
The two questions go hand in hand, because while
there's a shortage of workers inhealth care, there's also a high
unemployment rate among peoplewho have a disability, there's a
new initiative in Ontario aimedat solving the hiring, training
and retention crisis in thehealthcare sector, at least here
in Ontario, it's aptly namedinspire, hire, train, retain, or
(03:07):
ihtr.
Dean Askin (03:09):
It's a collaborative initiative led by Holland
Bloorview Kids RehabilitationHospital in Toronto, and our two
guests have been deeply andintrinsically involved in
spearheading the development ofihtr. Laura Bowman is Project
Manager Research and Evaluationat Holland Bloorview.
Amy Widdows (03:28):
Also here is Lori riding. She's the Manager of
Disability and AbsenceManagement, Management at Halton
Healthcare in Oakville, Ontario.Now, full disclosure here, ODEN
was also involved in thedevelopment of ihtr. I was one
of the people on the ProjectSteering Committee. Now that
we've cleared that up, LauraBowman and Lori riding welcome
(03:49):
to you can't spell inclusionwithout a D. Thank you for
coming on the show to tell theworld about ihtr.
Laura Bowman (03:55):
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Amy Widdows (03:58):
Okay, let's jumpright in I'd like to know
from both of you, actually, whyis this initiative so important?
Lori Riding (04:07):
Oh my gosh. I think this initiative is so important,
especially these days. You know,I think that this, this
initiative, it addresses bothstaffing shortages, but also
disability employment gaps, andwe're seeing a lot of that these
days. And you know, we're reallylooking to promote equity,
(04:27):
diversity and inclusion in thehealthcare setting. Of course, I
think you know, disabilityinclusiveness is something that
is looked at in all sorts ofindustries, or should be looked
at in all sorts of industries,but this specific program was
aimed in the for the healthcaresetting. And we do know that the
healthcare sector isexperiencing some shortages now.
(04:48):
And, you know, I think thisprogram really aims to look at
the gap, so looking at, youknow, the looking at the
opportunity to hire those folks,those individuals. Individuals
who have disabilities into theworkplace and looking at
different ways of doing that.
Laura Bowman (05:05):
Thanks, Lorie I couldn't agree more. I think
it's so important because wehave this, this double edged
problem, where we have thehealthcare sector, which is in a
human resource crisis right now.We really need individuals in
these roles, domesticindividuals filling these roles,
and we also have a whole pool ofour population of skilled job
(05:27):
seekers looking for work,employees looking for stability,
being individuals withdisabilities who are being
underemployed and unemployedsimply because of their
disability. So we want to makesure that in the healthcare
sector, our organizations andour entire sector understands
how to attract, hire,accommodate and retain talented
(05:51):
individuals with disabilities,with the knowledge and the
confidence on what that lookslike and what that really
requires. It seems like a scarytask when we hear things like
accommodation, people think, ah,you know, expensive bottom line,
or especially in healthcareliability, we're a life or death
industry. But really this is atalented workforce, a ready and
(06:15):
available and eager workforce,and people who are deserving of
jobs and can fill the roles thatwe have.
Amy Widdows (06:23):
Thanks Laura and it was ODEN's ultimate pleasure to
participate in that project.Thank you. Moving on to the next
question. Figures fromStatistics Canada show that
health and social services arewhere the majority of people who
have a disability are mostlikely to be employed. It's
(06:46):
something like 15.1% part of thegoal with ihtr is to increase
employment opportunities forpeople who have a disability,
aside from the shortage ofdoctors, nurses and PSWs, where
do hospitals have the biggestneed for staff that can be
filled by accessing thedisability talent pool. Does it
sort of run across departmentsand vary from hospital to
(07:07):
hospital?
Lori Riding (07:09):
I guess I'll jump in first, if that's okay. Laura,
yeah, I think that it reallymuch varies by hospital and
hospital size and region and thecurrent workforce gaps. Right? I
really do think there'sopportunities in many, many
different areas, includingclerical it, data entry,
environmental services, foodservices, transport, portering,
(07:32):
all sorts of different things.And these are roles that are
essential and that offermeaningful employment
opportunities to individuals.
Laura Bowman (07:40):
You know, I don't know Who here remembers COVID.
Do we remember that littlebright spot in our history, that
little old thing, that smallthing, we learned what an
essential service really is. Welearned that without our
materials management, ourenvironmental services, our food
services, without clerical,without it and without our
(08:03):
healthcare, direct workers, ourclinicians, we are really in
trouble. And so we know thatevery element that keeps a
healthcare organization runningis essential, and we see need
for these roles, particularly inareas of high turnover. So you
know, sometimes in materialsmanagement, sometimes in
(08:26):
administrative jobs, but we'reseeing especially tasks that
have a lot of repetition, a lotof, you know, a lot of a lot of
repetition, a lot of things thatwe don't see moving a lot. We
see high turnover and and theseare roles that can be filled by
(08:46):
individuals who thrive in thatworkplace. But also knowing that
getting rid of someone or nothiring someone because of
something that could beaccommodated is a loss for the
organization.
Dean Askin (08:58):
I want to I want to jump in here, because you've got
all these roles basically acrossthe board that need to be
filled, and, you know, inhealthcare and in other
industries, I mean, but thereare still a lot of businesses
out there that they've neverhired someone who has a
disability, and it's oftenbecause they're just not aware
of the talent pool and they andthey don't know How to access
(09:20):
it. So when you started this indeveloping ihtr and working with
the other hospitals, is it thesame way within healthcare?
Where do they know how to, youknow, access the talent pool?
Do, or do some of them know, andothers not? What do you think?
Laura,
Laura Bowman (09:40):
Yes, and no. So I think yes, many organizations,
healthcare organizations inparticular, haven't
intentionally hired someone witha disability. But given the
statistics, chances are thatteams have hired someone with a
disability and possibly notrealized. That found ways to
(10:01):
either accommodate them in waysthat they don't even realize are
accommodations, or theindividual has learned how to
accommodate themselves. And wealso know that many
organizations and industries,healthcare, included, have
robust return to work plans toretain talent following an
industry so we do you have thatprecedent of organizations,
(10:22):
especially in healthcare, reallyinvesting in that inclusion on
the end of someone who isalready an employee, already a
staff member, and this return towork model, which we seem to
think is separate fromdisability inclusion or
accommodation, really isn'tthere there they're two sides of
(10:43):
the same coin. And what thistraining does is it allows
people, really people, leadersin healthcare, to be more aware
of their practices and increasetheir potential talent pool,
both through hiring andretention, so that they can
value that diverse perspectiveand the diverse experiences that
(11:06):
individuals with disabilitiescan bring to their workforce. So
concepts like accommodation canbe really amorphous to
healthcare people, leaders, tohealthcare organizations, and it
can be scary to employers andmanagers, but the truth is, is
that we already make them allthe time. We already have
precedent and policy that canbenefit not only individuals
(11:29):
returning to work, not onlyindividuals who are seeking
hiring or job seeking right nowwith a disability, but can
really help everyone do theirbest work to fulfill the role as
needed.
Dean Askin (11:42):
So they're doing they're they're doing it, but
they haven't had that aha momentof realization that, oh, we are
being inclusive. Lorie Butbefore I get to that next
question about, you know, thetraining in a box, what's your
take on this? You know, arehospitals like afraid or
unaware, or is it? Do you findthe same thing, as Laura said,
(12:05):
that some are doing it, somearen't, or they're doing it, but
they just aren't realizingthey're doing it?
Lori Riding (12:10):
Can I tack on to that, Laura, I think that and
and you know, from from ourchats over the last year, but
accommodation is somethingthat's very near and dear to my
heart. And, you know, I reallydo think that there's a lack of
awareness from from the, youknow, from leadership, in an
uncertainty about how toaccommodate. And what does that
(12:30):
mean? How much is it going tocost me? Is this, you know, a
one time thing, or is thissomething that I have to do
repeatedly over and over andover again? And they, I think
they really do have a fear ofgetting it wrong. What do I do?
I'll actually want to turn thetables a wee little bit and ask
Dean, you know, from your sideof just from your your own, you
know, your own thoughts. Youknow, what is the cost of an
(12:54):
accommodation? What do you thinkis that hundreds dollars, 100,
$500 $1,000 what do you think itlooks like?
Dean Askin (13:01):
Well, it's kind of a loaded question, because I
maintain our database ofstatistics and and that's the
average, the average, theaverage cost is us, like $500
and I think it's like 56% ofaccommodations cost absolutely
nothing.
Lori Riding (13:16):
You got it exactly. So maybe, on average, maybe $500
but that could be like a onetime cost, right? That could be
a device, that could be somesort of ergonomic chair or table
or equipment or software, orsometimes it's not even the
purchasing of a piece ofequipment, that's the
accommodation. Andaccommodations can come in all
(13:37):
different shapes, shapes andsizes, right? And they could
include things like shiftscheduling or changing your
start time, all sorts ofdifferent things. So I just
wanted to point that out. Ithink that's something super
duper important. And yeah, Ithink that we're on our way.
Dean Askin (13:54):
Thank you. All right, so let me ask that
question. I mean, thereobviously, I guess there were a
lot of different routes youcould have taken in developing
training materials. So why thetraining in a box approach?
Laura Bowman (14:08):
With ihtr, we took the training in a box approach
for a couple of reasons, so wewanted to make sure that we were
creating something that could beinternally delivered, so an
organization would haveeverything that they needed to
make it work in their owncontext, and that would lead to
(14:29):
their ownership on their part,so that way, they have an
understanding of how the ongoingdelivery of this specific
training And this specificmaterial fits in with their own
broader hiring practices,training, occupational health
and safety, their deiinitiatives, they could
highlight and background thingsthat work or didn't work for
(14:52):
them. They could choose examplesthat fit or did not fit their
organization. And we actuallyspecifically. Used a human
centered design approach tobuild this training in a box,
because if teams already knewwhat they wanted out of a
training like this, they wouldhave made it already. We
(15:12):
wouldn't have had to go in anddo this. But we use this process
to understand both the objectiveand the empathy based outcomes
that people wanted. So peoplewant training. They want their
staff to be more disabilityinclusive in their hiring and
their attention in theirperformance management. But we
(15:33):
also wanted to know what theempathetic outcome would be. And
it turns out that people want tofeel not only confident and
knowledgeable in delivering thiskind of information. They want
to feel proud of theirorganization and their team. And
this is coming straight from Ithink it was 16 healthcare
(15:53):
organizations contributed tomaking these early stages and
these early empathetic outcomes.So it's not just training and
information. They want to feelownership and pride in what they
do. And given that we had a, Imean, a one year grant, we all
know cash is king, but the grantwas one year long, so we wanted
(16:14):
to make sure that it could livebeyond that one year, and us
delivering it over and overagain wouldn't work. It's not
sustainable. So we wanted tomake sure that organizations
could deliver it on their own,and the benefit of that was that
once organizations startedtaking ownership. So we built it
with nine healthcareorganizations, and each of the
nine organizations piloted itwithin their own walls, with
(16:38):
their own staff, and did itdifferently and took different
pieces and moving forward alsotook different pieces forward to
keep and to blend in with otherorganizational development and
learning that they had. So wehave this beautiful roster of
materials, this full trainingthat organizations can take as
they like. They can bring in thepieces that are most relevant,
(17:01):
foreground, background, blendthem to what's already working.
And that's why this training ina box gives them everything they
might need so that they can fitit into their own organization
and what they think they need.
Amy Widdows (17:14):
I think that answers the next question as
well. Thanks, Laura. So that wasmy question, was, tell us a bit
more about the resources, aboutwhat is in the training box.
Laurie anything to add to, towhat Laura's told us,
Laura Bowman (17:32):
Well, it's, I will say it's quite inclusive. So,
you know, we have a very robusttraining program, but it
includes, you know, not only aPowerPoint presentation, but
(17:53):
that PowerPoint presentationcomes with full scripting. It
comes with points, Speakerpoints, for whoever is
delivering it. So that's,that's, you know, sort of the
(18:13):
main thing. But we've alsoprovided both facilitator
guides, implementation guides.We also have a resource handout
or package that we providewithin the training as well. So
(18:34):
it really is full and inclusive.And as Laura mentioned, right
you can, you can deliver this,this program as sort of a one,
And I'll add in thateverything's, I feel like it's a
one stop shop, or you can breakit up into the different
sales pitch, you know, act now.And you also get a blender. But
(18:55):
we have everything available inFrench and English. We have, not
modules. There's four differentmodules within the program, and
only additional videos that youcan make and additional
scenarios that you can swap inor out, but in the next week,
you can really customize it towhatever your scenario, or your
few weeks, we're going to havethe full training video recorded
situation, or your employer,right your organization,
in English and French so peoplecan train themselves before
(19:16):
delivering to their ownorganizations. And we also link
depending on, you know, leaderstime or your audience's time.
out to all the amazing resourcesthat already exist that we
pulled into this training sofrom reputable organizations
So, yeah, I think that it's,it's a full, full, full
across Ontario and Canada,people can visit those, those
original pieces of information,if they'd like to build upon
training. And in, you know, in one,
those. Yeah,
Lori Riding (19:38):
I wanted to add Laura as well. They also, we
also have videos from livedexperiences, so from
individuals, you know, withdisabilities, who provided their
their opinions and their livedexperiences. So that's really
great, great insight. We alsohave some, some videos from from
hospital leaders as well, as youknow, to demonstrate examples
(19:59):
of. Could be done. So those aresome really great resources as
well,
Dean Askin (20:05):
Well, speaking of getting down to reality. So the
reality is that, you know, youhad this group of nine hospitals
that were all working on thistogether from all over Ontario,
and three employmentorganizations and 70 people or
more working for a year tocreate all these resources and
make this ihtr reality. So Imean, when you've got that many
(20:28):
people and organizations workingtogether, what were some of the
biggest challenges that you had?I mean, how hard was it to reach
that consensus and finally getit to the stage where everybody
says, Yeah, we nailed it.Whoever wants to jump in,
Laura Bowman (20:44):
take a try. So I think people, I think
scheduling, coordinating andreally taking the time to create
those shared definitions, toreally lay bare all of the
assumptions that everyone wascoming in with, and make sure
that when we say disabilityinclusive employment, we all
(21:07):
mean the same thing when we saydisability, we all mean the same
thing when we say, you know,accommodation. We all have that
shared understanding. And whenwe talked about goals, we all
knew what we were, what we werereally working towards. So I
think not only coordinating andscheduling individuals, but
(21:27):
really making sure we had thoseshared definitions that said the
spirit among all of the youknow, staggering numbers, the 70
people we had, the 70 cooks wehad in our little kitchen
really, really was an electricenergy. It was everyone wanting
(21:48):
to move this forward, no onespecifically knowing how, but
everyone there to contributewhat they could and really
trying to understand what mightwork, what has worked for for
some individuals, what couldwork for others, and what
questions we needed to answer.So really, the the challenges
being scheduling, not want, notdesire, definitely not, not
(22:12):
enthusiasm.
Amy Widdows (22:15):
Lori, if you could describe, if you could just
describe, the year that it tookto develop ihtr, how would you
describe it that year? You
Lori Riding (22:26):
know, it went very, very quickly. As Laura
mentioned, we had so many, somany people joining this
initiative, and everyone came tothe table with positive
attitudes, willing tocontribute. You know, giving
their ideas, thinking aboutthings in different ways, and it
was absolutely amazing to seethe collaboration and the energy
(22:48):
from those participating in thisprogram. I will say it was, you
know, it did take some time. Itdid take some commitment in
terms of finding those dates andtimes for everyone to meet, but
we managed to do it and it, Ithink it really reinforced the
importance of the partnershipbetween the healthcare and the
(23:09):
community. So it was absolutelywonderful,
Amy Widdows (23:12):
right? And I guess that takes us then to a question
for Laura, what has the feedbackbeen? So far, the
Laura Bowman (23:20):
feedback has been very positive, and I think not
surprised, but a little bitsurprised at the way that it's
delivered. So we do start outwith the business case for what
disability inclusion in theworkforce can look like. And I
(23:41):
think that's a really strongcase that especially in
healthcare, we're used to nothearing we're used to hearing
individuals with disabilities asthe client, as the person
receiving care, and to talkabout them as part of the care
team. It's not always whatpeople expect. So really hearing
that that perspective shift fromwho we serve to who we're
(24:07):
looking to include in our teamis a big one in healthcare in
particular. So I think that hasbeen really meaningful,
especially requiring peopleattending the training to
consider this social model ofdisability, as opposed to their
typical biomedical service modelof someone with a disability. So
(24:27):
that's been a really positiveearly feedback. I think
engagement with employmentservice providers directly for
healthcare has been reallymeaningful. We've seen in
communities, a lot of naturalconnections and questions, a lot
of understanding that there areservices available that just
(24:47):
because you're a healthcareorganization and you're very
important, you're still likelyone of the largest hires in a
community, and you're availablein most communities because
healthcare, you know, you're notgoing anywhere without
healthcare. Sure, so reallyconnecting people to their local
employment service providers tobetter understand what resources
are already available in theircommunity to help them on this
(25:09):
journey, so that they don't haveto do it alone. A lot of I find
dei initiatives, healthcareorganizations and large
organizations like ours, tend tofeel that we need to build
something up from nothing, thatwe need to include people in a
way and figure it out fromsquare one, but we have
established things in ourcommunity, so I think that's
(25:31):
been really meaningful. We'vebeen able to people have been
able to integrate this work intotheir existing dei or other
organizational development andlearning, you know, inclusive
hiring pathways, so maybe nottaking the whole training, but
taking pieces or information orjust some of the resources that
we provide. And people reallyenjoyed the practical examples.
(25:55):
One thing that we meaningfullybuilt in was practical case
examples so that organizationscould have their people leaders
from either within teams oracross teams, have meaningful
discussions, not necessarilywith a correct answer. You know,
when we're talking about hiringor onboarding or performance
(26:15):
management, it's not always aclean conversation. It's going
to look different at everyorganization. So providing a
structure and a space for peopleleaders to meaningfully talk
about these experiences, torelate back and say, Oh,
remember two years ago in thatteam, when we had this issue,
reflect on what it means forthem, what it meant for their
(26:38):
team, and what they see as thepotential for moving forward in
light of this new information.So we've gotten a lot of really
positive feedback in terms ofreflection, in terms of
integration into what they'redoing, in terms of considering
how to move forward withdisability inclusion, and then
just about the training itself,that it's really, really
(27:01):
detailed organizations likethat, we provide not only a
slide deck, but all of thespeakers, notes in full form and
point form, that we haverecorded videos embedded, that
we have handouts available, justeverything is right at your
fingertips.
Lori Riding (27:19):
I think if I can add to that too, I think that
some of the feedback that we'vepersonally received here at
Halton from having delivered thetraining internally was that,
you know, it's a great resource.And those individuals who took
the training that, you know,they come from recruitment, they
come from first line orfrontline managers, and they
(27:42):
even were surprised with some ofthis information. They they
really did pay attention. Wereengaged in it, found it
interesting. And best of all, asLaura mentioned, you know, we're
not reinventing the wheel. Thereare resources that exist out
there. It's just maybe weweren't aware of them, or, you
know, had questions or wereunsure of things, didn't know
(28:04):
where to start, or how do weintegrate this into our existing
policies and procedures? Right?So I think that the feedback has
been, has been fantastic. Isthere some more work to do?
Absolutely, but I think this isa great starting point, and can
only go forward
Dean Askin (28:22):
So you've got all this really good feedback. I
mean, what would you like to seehappen? I mean, do you look at
this training in a box assomething that's already made,
template that could be adaptedor adopted, rather, by other
healthcare systems in otherprovinces? Or have you been
talking to anybody about that.Are you getting inquiries about
(28:42):
it? Laurie,
Lori Riding (28:44):
Oh, absolutely. I think we've said it a couple
times during this, this talk,but it's fully scalable. It's
fully customizable. You canadjust it however you need to.
You can deliver it however youneed to. I think the intention
with this, with this initiative,is really to provide education,
(29:04):
to provide, you know, healthcareleaders, but also, you know,
other front care frontlinemanagers, but also really give
them the opportunity to askquestions and become involved
and have those discussions. Andcan it be, you know, scalable
outside of outside or, sorry,across Canada. Absolutely. This
(29:26):
is not Ontario specific by anymeans. But I think it's a really
good building block for anyhealthcare organization, or, to
be honest, for any any industryreally right in terms of
improving their theirdisability, hiring and inclusion
strategies.
Dean Askin (29:45):
Laura, what about you?
Laura Bowman (29:46):
Yeah, I, I think it can be adopted by any, any
organization across the country,and I also think it can be
adopted across sectors. We, weprovided. Examples that are
specific to healthcare and somethat are specific to Ontario,
but the information and contextreally is meant to be adaptable
(30:09):
from square one. So to add inexamples from different
industries, that's somethingthat we're hopeful people can
do, and we're hopeful, might bea future step for us as well, to
help contribute to that, to makesure that the information lives
on and lives broader that this,this population that is so ready
(30:32):
to enter the workforce, and aworkforce that's so in need of
workers, individuals with theirlived experience, creativity,
problem solving and justknowledge, need to come
together. And for me, you know,I do, I see this resources as a
starting point. I'm really drawnto this concept from the zero
(30:55):
waste food movement, which is,we don't need a handful of
people doing this perfectly. Weneed millions of people doing it
imperfectly. So we wantorganizations, healthcare or
otherwise, to try to makemistakes, to learn and grow and
build an identity of inclusiveemployment in a way that works
(31:18):
for them, for their staff, theircommunity, their you know,
strategic mission, their vision,however it is, so we gave a
template, we gave someresources. And now it's time for
organizations, healthcare ornot, to to take this where they
want to go, to add it to theirroster of how they bring this
(31:41):
kind of ethos forward. And Ithink healthcare or not, it's a
usable resource, and it linksyou to other really important
and seminal resources in Canadaand Ontario. I
Dean Askin (31:54):
I want you to look into your crystal ball for a
minute here. I mean, Laurie, youkind of mentioned a few minutes
ago about a few of the thingsthat have happened right away as
a result of this, but down theroad, a year, two years, five
years, 10 years, what impact doyou think ihtr could make on the
healthcare, Human Resourcescrisis, or what impact do you
(32:15):
hope it's going to have?
Lori Riding (32:17):
Yeah, I guess I look at it as we want to try to
bridge the gap. You know, we wespoke about where the health,
healthcare, healthcare shortagesare today. And we also know that
there's many, many individualsout there with disabilities,
invisible or not, who want towork, and we need to find a way
(32:37):
to bridge that gap. And we thinkthat this, this initiative,
provides that education,provides that training, gives a
lens to disability, inclusivehiring, to employers and and
ways to do that, right? So Ithink, I think in the long run,
it's, it's going to, you know,offer a great long term
(32:58):
strategy. It's not a quick fix.This is not a one stop shop,
absolutely. Is it going to taketime? Yes, absolutely, well, but
I like Laura's analogy of manypeople and doing things, perhaps
imperfectly, rather than oneperson, but it's, it's going to
take a while, but it's a greatstart, and it's the it's the
(33:19):
right thing to do. It's what weshould be doing.
Dean Askin (33:22):
Laura, you're nodding there. What's your
vision or hope?
Laura Bowman (33:25):
And I'll agree with Lori. I hope this work in
identifying a skilled domesticworkforce is helpful for
healthcare and sets an examplefor other industries that we
bring in individuals who areskilled, who are ready and who
are unemployed or underemployedfor reasons that are really, you
(33:45):
know, discriminatory. But I alsowant to point out the importance
of representation in theworkforce, so bringing
individuals with disabilitiesinto the workforce where they
can be visible, where they canadvocate. When job seekers with
disabilities see employees withdisabilities thriving, it gives
(34:07):
them a way to imagine themselvesin a valued and meaningful role,
so that not only benefits theemployee, but future job seekers
who are motivated and trulybelieve that they can make that
impact, making them moredesirable and retainable
employees. Moving forward, youare making an impression on a
(34:28):
workforce, on a future,sustainable workforce, who
understand how they can be mostvaluable in your organization
and in your sector. And theother thing for me is the
collaborative process, thishuman centered design process
that we undertook together. Sothis process of using human
(34:48):
centered design withinhealthcare to understand what's
really going on, what the trueconcerns were, the ugly
concerns, the reallycontextually bound. Concerns
through that, we were able tobegin to ground ourselves with
one foot in acknowledgement, oneside in acknowledgement, and one
(35:09):
side in possibility. So I'mhoping we can take this forward
with acknowledging where ourindustries are right now and
considering what might bedifferent, what might we be able
to change if we took stepstowards more disability
inclusive workforces using thisresource, using whatever is at hand.
Amy Widdows (35:32):
Thank you. So this next question is for both of
you, you both held a differentparts of this project over the
past year. What's been the mostrewarding thing about being part
of the ihtr project?
Laura Bowman (35:46):
For me, it's seeing teams build confidence.
So I tend to get my back upabout disability inclusive
hiring. You know, why aren't youdoing it? You should be doing
it. Everyone should just know.And it's good to remember that
our sectors are full of goodpeople doing the best they can.
So by sharing our knowledge andour tools to promote confidence,
(36:09):
we see the small learnings, thesmall wins. I love hearing about
just a small change that worked,or even a team having a really
hard discussion that went well,or even went just all right. But
they had it. They had theconversation. They I really
just, I love learning aboutteams that connected to local
(36:31):
employment service providers,sometimes for the first time,
especially within healthcare,where we're we're used to these
really big innovations, thesereally big dollars spent on
creating and translating andlearning, seeing that a free
resource can really change thiskind of practice, and then it
(36:53):
doesn't cost a thing. I thinkit, I think it says everything.
I think when we look at when welook at learning, when we look
at sharing knowledge, when welook at the power of
collaboration, that's that'sbeen so meaningful. Absolutely,
Lori Riding (37:06):
Laura and I think it's a little bit of a paradigm
shift, right? It's, can'tcontinue doing the same things
the same way we've been doingthem for however long, and
expect a different result,right? We've all heard that, but
I think inclusion is notcomplicated. It's just, it just
needs intention. It needs theright tools. It needs the right
(37:27):
the right partners and listeningright. I've always said it, I
people want to work. People withdisabilities want to work. They
want to contribute. They wantto, you know, go in society,
help society. They want to earnan income, all of these things.
And I think the IHT ihtr programreally makes you know this
(37:49):
tangible hiring, hiringinclusively really does
strengthen healthcare. Itstrengthens it for everyone. So
Amy Widdows (37:58):
Lori, what's, what's the most important
message that you would wantanyone listening to this
conversation right now to takeaway from it?
Lori Riding (38:07):
Anyone listening to this conversation, I would say,
is we need to try. We need tomove forward and disability
inclusive hiring is the rightthing to do. We need to take a
look, a good, hard look at ourpractices and our policies and
see where we can improve on youknow what we're currently doing
(38:27):
right? We know that there's agap in in our healthcare sector,
and we know there's people whowant to work and who need to
work and who can work, who aretalented individuals who can
bring so so much to the employerand to to the industry, and, as
Laura mentioned, otherindustries as well, but in
healthcare, absolutely, there's,there's so many different
(38:49):
things. And I'm looking forwardto seeing this grow and
implemented. As you know,especially, I'll start with
Halton healthcare, right? I'mlooking forward to seeing how
our program develops, and seehow it flourishes with time and
growth.
Amy Widdows (39:06):
Laura, anything to add to
Laura Bowman (39:07):
that. I mean, if you're listening to this
wonderful podcast, I'm not goingto waste your time convincing
you about the importance ofdisability inclusive employment.
But I think for me, there aretwo things that I want people to
take away. So small change ischange. Not everything has to be
(39:28):
a full scale dei overhaul. Sodon't let fear of an
overwhelming change stop youfrom from approaching change at
all. Stop you from making onechoice that would be a movement
towards disability inclusivehiring, or disability inclusive
employment in general. And thesecond is to find your
(39:48):
champions. Work together, worksmarter, not harder. You know,
we work with champions withinour sector to see what they
needed. And it turns out that alot of the information. In a lot
of the examples that peoplewanted were already available,
either within our network or inavailable resources. So we, you
(40:09):
know, for the ihtr team and forHolland Bloorview, with our
example, our internal littletest space, we were able to
package it in a way that wasmeaningful for healthcare, that
was meaningful for Ontariohealthcare. Specifically, we
didn't have to reinvent theconcept of employment from
(40:30):
square one. So really, just findyour champions. Take small
steps. Changes. Change
Dean Askin (40:35):
Great insights, great and great insights in your
first podcast interview, LauraSol, it comes back to me to ask
my trademark last question. Imean, we've had a great
conversation, and we've coveredso many different aspects of
ihtr. Is there anything wehaven't talked about that you
think is important to mentionbefore we wrap it up?
Laura Bowman (40:56):
I think the most important thing is the website,
which is Holland,ploreview.ca/ihtr, all of the
resources are available forfree. My emails on the website,
if you have any questions orjust want to reach out and Lori anything,
Lori Riding (41:15):
I think the biggest thing is, I just would like to
say, you know, thank you to allof our amazing partners who who
made this program possible.Everyone works so hard, and
it's, I'm so proud of theproject. I think, I think it's
absolutely incredible. And youknow, again, it's just the
beginning, but we do hope thatit sparks even more inclusive
hiring conversations andactions. So thank
Laura Bowman (41:38):
you, and thanks to you, Dean and Amy,
Amy Widdows (41:40):
Okay, well, Laura and Lori, thanks again for
coming on the show to let us letthe world know about inspire,
hire, train and retain becausethe World Health Organization
projects that there'll be ashortage of 15 million
healthcare workers globally, by2030 and the United Nations has
noted that unemployment rate ofpeople who have a disability is
(42:04):
around twice that for peoplewithout disabilities. And
Dean Askin (42:07):
You know what? That's pretty much in line with
what Statistics Canada says forthis country. I think the stat
can said in their 2022 Canadiansurvey on disability that the
overall unemployment rate forCanadians aged 16 to 24 who have
a disability, it's like 13.3%compared to 7.1% for people
(42:27):
without disabilities, and it'ssomething like 5.7% versus 3.1%
for the 25 to 54 age bracket,
Amy Widdows (42:34):
Exactly Dean. That's why I can't help
thinking, wouldn't it be greatif this disability inclusive,
hiring, training in a box modelwas eventually adopted by not
only every hospital in Ontario,but by hospitals in other
provinces, here in Canada, andby hospitals in other countries
too. And of course, I'm sayingall that with the reminder again
(42:55):
that I was one of the people onthe ihtr steering committee. It
was an exciting, groundbreakinginitiative to be involved in.
Dean Askin (43:02):
Definitely an exciting initiative. Amy, of
course, I'm saying that from theperspective of coming from a
journalism background andthinking, Oh, this is a good
story. We have to do an episodeabout ihtr, and we can make it
part of a series on disabilityinclusion initiatives in a
couple of major sectors inCanada. So thanks from me, Laura
and Laurie, for jumping at thechance to come on the show and
(43:25):
talk about ihtr. Been a great conversation.
Amy Widdows (43:28):
We know that episodes of the show get
downloaded all over the world,so who knows, maybe, just maybe,
one or some of those people whodownload this episode will turn
out to be a hospital of humanresources, and you'll find
emails in your inboxes askingfor more information about ihtr.
We will have links to theinformation about the ihtr
project and the trainingresources in the show notes for
(43:51):
this episode.
Laura Bowman (43:52):
Thanks, Amy, thanks Dean.
Dean Askin (43:54):
Thanks so much. Well, you know, I happen to be
an idealist champion personalitytype, so I'd like to think the
conversation we've just hadabout ihtr is going to make an
impact somewhere and inspireother conversations about how
more disability, inclusivehiring and hospital networks can
help alleviate not only thehealthcare, Human Resources
(44:15):
crisis, but lower thoseunemployment rates I mentioned a
couple of minutes ago.
Amy Widdows (44:19):
Well, ihtr is a start anyway, and well, we're at
the end. That's it for thisepisode. Of you can't spell
inclusion without a dean. Hopeyou'll join us for the next one.
In episode 35 we'll have afeature interview with Canadian
actor Sean toge, who has livedexperience with disability.
That's
Dean Askin (44:37):
right, he's the star, creator, writer and
producer of you are my hero.That's a comedy series on CBC,
Gem about a 20 something youngman who has cerebral palsy who
is navigating his way in anaccessible world.
Amy Widdows (44:52):
Sean has a sharp wit and sense of humor and some
deep insights about disabilityinclusion. So be sure to join us
for that conversation comingJuly 22, I'm Amy widdows
Dean Askin (45:02):
And I'm Dean Askin. Thanks again for listening
wherever, whenever and onwhatever podcast app you're
listening from, join us eachepisode as we have insightful
(45:25):
conversations like this one withLaura Bowman and Laurie riding
about championing disabilityinclusion in healthcare with the
ihtr initiative and exploredisability inclusion in business
(45:52):
and in our communities from allthe angles you can't spell
inclusion without a D, asproduced in Toronto, Canada by
the Ontario DisabilityEmployment Network. Our podcast
(46:17):
production team, executiveproducer and co host Amy
widdows, our producer is SueDefoe, associate producer and co
host, Dean Askin. Audio editingand production is by Dean Askin.
(46:43):
Our podcast theme is lastsummer, by ixin. If you have
feedback or comments about anepisode, email us at
info@odanetwork.com that's infoat o d, e, n, e, t, w, O, R,
(47:07):
k.com, join us each episode forinsights from expert guests as
we explore the power ofinclusion, the business benefits
of inclusive hiring andfostering an inclusive culture,
(47:33):
and why disability is animportant part of the diversity,
equity, inclusion andaccessibility conversation. Tune
into you can't spell inclusionwithout a dean podbean or
(47:57):
wherever you Find your favorite podcasts.
Announcer, This is You Can't Spell Inclusion
(00:04):
Without a D, the podcast thatexplores the power of inclusion
in business, in employment, ineducation and in our
communities, and why disabilityis an important part of the
diversity, equity, inclusion andaccessibility. Conversation with
your hosts, Amy Widdows and DeanAskin.
(00:28):
Hello there, and welcome to theshow. This is episode 34 of You
Can't Spell Inclusion Without aD. Whether you're listening
while you drive or while youride the train or fly to
wherever you're headed while youwork, or while you're walking
the dog, or maybe you're settledin your favorite chair with a
cup of tea right now. Thanks forjoining us for part two in our
(00:48):
sector series. This episode,we're taking a look at Canada's
healthcare sector through adisability employment and
disability inclusive hiringlens. If you haven't tuned into
part one yet, be sure to dothat. A great conversation about
the belong initiative toincrease inclusion in the
tourism and hospitality sectorin this country. That's episode
(01:09):
33 Hi there. I'm Dean Askin andwell, it's definitely no secret.
There's a general labor shortagein Canada that's going to last
until about 2030 it's affectingjust about every sector, and
perhaps none more than thehealth care sector. There is a
labor crisis in the sector, onethat's affecting, among other
(01:29):
things, in hospitals, wait timesin emergency rooms and often
whether some smaller communitieseven have an open ER or hospital
at all.
Amy Widdows (01:39):
That's right, Dean at its 2022 Health Human
Resources symposium, HealthCanada summed it up this way,
and I'm quoting here, the HealthHuman Resource crisis is one of
the greatest challenges facingCanada's Health Care System
today, including a dwindlingsupply of health care workers,
low retention and workplaceconditions that place undue
(02:00):
pressure on workers. Hello. I'mAmy widdows here with you at the
other mic. By the way, if you'relistening to this from part of
the world, other than Canada,and you've never heard of Health
Canada, it's the federalgovernment department that
administers national healthpolicy and nationwide standards
of medical service in thiscountry.
Dean Askin (02:19):
That's right, but delivering health care services
and hiring, training andretaining health care workers?
Well, that all falls under thejurisdiction of each individual
province and territory. Sowhat's to be done about the
staffing crisis in pretty muchevery hospital in every
province, and how do people whohave a disability and disability
inclusive hiring fit into this?Well, keep listening, because
(02:42):
the answers to these questionsare the focus of this episode.
Amy Widdows (02:46):
The two questions go hand in hand, because while
there's a shortage of workers inhealth care, there's also a high
unemployment rate among peoplewho have a disability, there's a
new initiative in Ontario aimedat solving the hiring, training
and retention crisis in thehealthcare sector, at least here
in Ontario, it's aptly namedinspire, hire, train, retain, or
(03:07):
ihtr.
Dean Askin (03:09):
It's a collaborative initiative led by Holland
Bloorview Kids RehabilitationHospital in Toronto, and our two
guests have been deeply andintrinsically involved in
spearheading the development ofihtr. Laura Bowman is Project
Manager Research and Evaluationat Holland Bloorview.
Amy Widdows (03:28):
Also here is Lori riding. She's the Manager of
Disability and AbsenceManagement, Management at Halton
Healthcare in Oakville, Ontario.Now, full disclosure here, ODEN
was also involved in thedevelopment of ihtr. I was one
of the people on the ProjectSteering Committee. Now that
we've cleared that up, LauraBowman and Lori riding welcome
(03:49):
to you can't spell inclusionwithout a D. Thank you for
coming on the show to tell theworld about ihtr.
Laura Bowman (03:55):
Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Amy Widdows (03:58):
Okay, let's jumpright in I'd like to know
from both of you, actually, whyis this initiative so important?
Lori Riding (04:07):
Oh my gosh. I think this initiative is so important,
especially these days. You know,I think that this, this
initiative, it addresses bothstaffing shortages, but also
disability employment gaps, andwe're seeing a lot of that these
days. And you know, we're reallylooking to promote equity,
(04:27):
diversity and inclusion in thehealthcare setting. Of course, I
think you know, disabilityinclusiveness is something that
is looked at in all sorts ofindustries, or should be looked
at in all sorts of industries,but this specific program was
aimed in the for the healthcaresetting. And we do know that the
healthcare sector isexperiencing some shortages now.
(04:48):
And, you know, I think thisprogram really aims to look at
the gap, so looking at, youknow, the looking at the
opportunity to hire those folks,those individuals. Individuals
who have disabilities into theworkplace and looking at
different ways of doing that.
Laura Bowman (05:05):
Thanks, Lorie I couldn't agree more. I think
it's so important because wehave this, this double edged
problem, where we have thehealthcare sector, which is in a
human resource crisis right now.We really need individuals in
these roles, domesticindividuals filling these roles,
and we also have a whole pool ofour population of skilled job
(05:27):
seekers looking for work,employees looking for stability,
being individuals withdisabilities who are being
underemployed and unemployedsimply because of their
disability. So we want to makesure that in the healthcare
sector, our organizations andour entire sector understands
how to attract, hire,accommodate and retain talented
(05:51):
individuals with disabilities,with the knowledge and the
confidence on what that lookslike and what that really
requires. It seems like a scarytask when we hear things like
accommodation, people think, ah,you know, expensive bottom line,
or especially in healthcareliability, we're a life or death
industry. But really this is atalented workforce, a ready and
(06:15):
available and eager workforce,and people who are deserving of
jobs and can fill the roles thatwe have.
Amy Widdows (06:23):
Thanks Laura and it was ODEN's ultimate pleasure to
participate in that project.Thank you. Moving on to the next
question. Figures fromStatistics Canada show that
health and social services arewhere the majority of people who
have a disability are mostlikely to be employed. It's
(06:46):
something like 15.1% part of thegoal with ihtr is to increase
employment opportunities forpeople who have a disability,
aside from the shortage ofdoctors, nurses and PSWs, where
do hospitals have the biggestneed for staff that can be
filled by accessing thedisability talent pool. Does it
sort of run across departmentsand vary from hospital to
(07:07):
hospital?
Lori Riding (07:09):
I guess I'll jump in first, if that's okay. Laura,
yeah, I think that it reallymuch varies by hospital and
hospital size and region and thecurrent workforce gaps. Right? I
really do think there'sopportunities in many, many
different areas, includingclerical it, data entry,
environmental services, foodservices, transport, portering,
(07:32):
all sorts of different things.And these are roles that are
essential and that offermeaningful employment
opportunities to individuals.
Laura Bowman (07:40):
You know, I don't know Who here remembers COVID.
Do we remember that littlebright spot in our history, that
little old thing, that smallthing, we learned what an
essential service really is. Welearned that without our
materials management, ourenvironmental services, our food
services, without clerical,without it and without our
(08:03):
healthcare, direct workers, ourclinicians, we are really in
trouble. And so we know thatevery element that keeps a
healthcare organization runningis essential, and we see need
for these roles, particularly inareas of high turnover. So you
know, sometimes in materialsmanagement, sometimes in
(08:26):
administrative jobs, but we'reseeing especially tasks that
have a lot of repetition, a lotof, you know, a lot of a lot of
repetition, a lot of things thatwe don't see moving a lot. We
see high turnover and and theseare roles that can be filled by
(08:46):
individuals who thrive in thatworkplace. But also knowing that
getting rid of someone or nothiring someone because of
something that could beaccommodated is a loss for the
organization.
Dean Askin (08:58):
I want to I want to jump in here, because you've got
all these roles basically acrossthe board that need to be
filled, and, you know, inhealthcare and in other
industries, I mean, but thereare still a lot of businesses
out there that they've neverhired someone who has a
disability, and it's oftenbecause they're just not aware
of the talent pool and they andthey don't know How to access
(09:20):
it. So when you started this indeveloping ihtr and working with
the other hospitals, is it thesame way within healthcare?
Where do they know how to, youknow, access the talent pool?
Do, or do some of them know, andothers not? What do you think?
Laura,
Laura Bowman (09:40):
Yes, and no. So I think yes, many organizations,
healthcare organizations inparticular, haven't
intentionally hired someone witha disability. But given the
statistics, chances are thatteams have hired someone with a
disability and possibly notrealized. That found ways to
(10:01):
either accommodate them in waysthat they don't even realize are
accommodations, or theindividual has learned how to
accommodate themselves. And wealso know that many
organizations and industries,healthcare, included, have
robust return to work plans toretain talent following an
industry so we do you have thatprecedent of organizations,
(10:22):
especially in healthcare, reallyinvesting in that inclusion on
the end of someone who isalready an employee, already a
staff member, and this return towork model, which we seem to
think is separate fromdisability inclusion or
accommodation, really isn'tthere there they're two sides of
(10:43):
the same coin. And what thistraining does is it allows
people, really people, leadersin healthcare, to be more aware
of their practices and increasetheir potential talent pool,
both through hiring andretention, so that they can
value that diverse perspectiveand the diverse experiences that
(11:06):
individuals with disabilitiescan bring to their workforce. So
concepts like accommodation canbe really amorphous to
healthcare people, leaders, tohealthcare organizations, and it
can be scary to employers andmanagers, but the truth is, is
that we already make them allthe time. We already have
precedent and policy that canbenefit not only individuals
(11:29):
returning to work, not onlyindividuals who are seeking
hiring or job seeking right nowwith a disability, but can
really help everyone do theirbest work to fulfill the role as
needed.
Dean Askin (11:42):
So they're doing they're they're doing it, but
they haven't had that aha momentof realization that, oh, we are
being inclusive. Lorie Butbefore I get to that next
question about, you know, thetraining in a box, what's your
take on this? You know, arehospitals like afraid or
unaware, or is it? Do you findthe same thing, as Laura said,
(12:05):
that some are doing it, somearen't, or they're doing it, but
they just aren't realizingthey're doing it?
Lori Riding (12:10):
Can I tack on to that, Laura, I think that and
and you know, from from ourchats over the last year, but
accommodation is somethingthat's very near and dear to my
heart. And, you know, I reallydo think that there's a lack of
awareness from from the, youknow, from leadership, in an
uncertainty about how toaccommodate. And what does that
(12:30):
mean? How much is it going tocost me? Is this, you know, a
one time thing, or is thissomething that I have to do
repeatedly over and over andover again? And they, I think
they really do have a fear ofgetting it wrong. What do I do?
I'll actually want to turn thetables a wee little bit and ask
Dean, you know, from your sideof just from your your own, you
know, your own thoughts. Youknow, what is the cost of an
(12:54):
accommodation? What do you thinkis that hundreds dollars, 100,
$500 $1,000 what do you think itlooks like?
Dean Askin (13:01):
Well, it's kind of a loaded question, because I
maintain our database ofstatistics and and that's the
average, the average, theaverage cost is us, like $500
and I think it's like 56% ofaccommodations cost absolutely
nothing.
Lori Riding (13:16):
You got it exactly. So maybe, on average, maybe $500
but that could be like a onetime cost, right? That could be
a device, that could be somesort of ergonomic chair or table
or equipment or software, orsometimes it's not even the
purchasing of a piece ofequipment, that's the
accommodation. Andaccommodations can come in all
(13:37):
different shapes, shapes andsizes, right? And they could
include things like shiftscheduling or changing your
start time, all sorts ofdifferent things. So I just
wanted to point that out. Ithink that's something super
duper important. And yeah, Ithink that we're on our way.
Dean Askin (13:54):
Thank you. All right, so let me ask that
question. I mean, thereobviously, I guess there were a
lot of different routes youcould have taken in developing
training materials. So why thetraining in a box approach?
Laura Bowman (14:08):
With ihtr, we took the training in a box approach
for a couple of reasons, so wewanted to make sure that we were
creating something that could beinternally delivered, so an
organization would haveeverything that they needed to
make it work in their owncontext, and that would lead to
(14:29):
their ownership on their part,so that way, they have an
understanding of how the ongoingdelivery of this specific
training And this specificmaterial fits in with their own
broader hiring practices,training, occupational health
and safety, their deiinitiatives, they could
highlight and background thingsthat work or didn't work for
(14:52):
them. They could choose examplesthat fit or did not fit their
organization. And we actuallyspecifically. Used a human
centered design approach tobuild this training in a box,
because if teams already knewwhat they wanted out of a
training like this, they wouldhave made it already. We
(15:12):
wouldn't have had to go in anddo this. But we use this process
to understand both the objectiveand the empathy based outcomes
that people wanted. So peoplewant training. They want their
staff to be more disabilityinclusive in their hiring and
their attention in theirperformance management. But we
(15:33):
also wanted to know what theempathetic outcome would be. And
it turns out that people want tofeel not only confident and
knowledgeable in delivering thiskind of information. They want
to feel proud of theirorganization and their team. And
this is coming straight from Ithink it was 16 healthcare
(15:53):
organizations contributed tomaking these early stages and
these early empathetic outcomes.So it's not just training and
information. They want to feelownership and pride in what they
do. And given that we had a, Imean, a one year grant, we all
know cash is king, but the grantwas one year long, so we wanted
(16:14):
to make sure that it could livebeyond that one year, and us
delivering it over and overagain wouldn't work. It's not
sustainable. So we wanted tomake sure that organizations
could deliver it on their own,and the benefit of that was that
once organizations startedtaking ownership. So we built it
with nine healthcareorganizations, and each of the
nine organizations piloted itwithin their own walls, with
(16:38):
their own staff, and did itdifferently and took different
pieces and moving forward alsotook different pieces forward to
keep and to blend in with otherorganizational development and
learning that they had. So wehave this beautiful roster of
materials, this full trainingthat organizations can take as
they like. They can bring in thepieces that are most relevant,
(17:01):
foreground, background, blendthem to what's already working.
And that's why this training ina box gives them everything they
might need so that they can fitit into their own organization
and what they think they need.
Amy Widdows (17:14):
I think that answers the next question as
well. Thanks, Laura. So that wasmy question, was, tell us a bit
more about the resources, aboutwhat is in the training box.
Laurie anything to add to, towhat Laura's told us,
Laura Bowman (17:32):
Well, it's, I will say it's quite inclusive. So,
you know, we have a very robusttraining program, but it
includes, you know, not only aPowerPoint presentation, but
(17:53):
that PowerPoint presentationcomes with full scripting. It
comes with points, Speakerpoints, for whoever is
delivering it. So that's,that's, you know, sort of the
(18:13):
main thing. But we've alsoprovided both facilitator
guides, implementation guides.We also have a resource handout
or package that we providewithin the training as well. So
(18:34):
it really is full and inclusive.And as Laura mentioned, right
you can, you can deliver this,this program as sort of a one,
And I'll add in thateverything's, I feel like it's a
one stop shop, or you can breakit up into the different
sales pitch, you know, act now.And you also get a blender. But
(18:55):
we have everything available inFrench and English. We have, not
modules. There's four differentmodules within the program, and
only additional videos that youcan make and additional
scenarios that you can swap inor out, but in the next week,
you can really customize it towhatever your scenario, or your
few weeks, we're going to havethe full training video recorded
situation, or your employer,right your organization,
in English and French so peoplecan train themselves before
(19:16):
delivering to their ownorganizations. And we also link
depending on, you know, leaderstime or your audience's time.
out to all the amazing resourcesthat already exist that we
pulled into this training sofrom reputable organizations
So, yeah, I think that it's,it's a full, full, full
across Ontario and Canada,people can visit those, those
original pieces of information,if they'd like to build upon
training. And in, you know, in one,
those. Yeah,
Lori Riding (19:38):
I wanted to add Laura as well. They also, we
also have videos from livedexperiences, so from
individuals, you know, withdisabilities, who provided their
their opinions and their livedexperiences. So that's really
great, great insight. We alsohave some, some videos from from
hospital leaders as well, as youknow, to demonstrate examples
(19:59):
of. Could be done. So those aresome really great resources as
well,
Dean Askin (20:05):
Well, speaking of getting down to reality. So the
reality is that, you know, youhad this group of nine hospitals
that were all working on thistogether from all over Ontario,
and three employmentorganizations and 70 people or
more working for a year tocreate all these resources and
make this ihtr reality. So Imean, when you've got that many
(20:28):
people and organizations workingtogether, what were some of the
biggest challenges that you had?I mean, how hard was it to reach
that consensus and finally getit to the stage where everybody
says, Yeah, we nailed it.Whoever wants to jump in,
Laura Bowman (20:44):
take a try. So I think people, I think
scheduling, coordinating andreally taking the time to create
those shared definitions, toreally lay bare all of the
assumptions that everyone wascoming in with, and make sure
that when we say disabilityinclusive employment, we all
(21:07):
mean the same thing when we saydisability, we all mean the same
thing when we say, you know,accommodation. We all have that
shared understanding. And whenwe talked about goals, we all
knew what we were, what we werereally working towards. So I
think not only coordinating andscheduling individuals, but
(21:27):
really making sure we had thoseshared definitions that said the
spirit among all of the youknow, staggering numbers, the 70
people we had, the 70 cooks wehad in our little kitchen
really, really was an electricenergy. It was everyone wanting
(21:48):
to move this forward, no onespecifically knowing how, but
everyone there to contributewhat they could and really
trying to understand what mightwork, what has worked for for
some individuals, what couldwork for others, and what
questions we needed to answer.So really, the the challenges
being scheduling, not want, notdesire, definitely not, not
(22:12):
enthusiasm.
Amy Widdows (22:15):
Lori, if you could describe, if you could just
describe, the year that it tookto develop ihtr, how would you
describe it that year? You
Lori Riding (22:26):
know, it went very, very quickly. As Laura
mentioned, we had so many, somany people joining this
initiative, and everyone came tothe table with positive
attitudes, willing tocontribute. You know, giving
their ideas, thinking aboutthings in different ways, and it
was absolutely amazing to seethe collaboration and the energy
(22:48):
from those participating in thisprogram. I will say it was, you
know, it did take some time. Itdid take some commitment in
terms of finding those dates andtimes for everyone to meet, but
we managed to do it and it, Ithink it really reinforced the
importance of the partnershipbetween the healthcare and the
(23:09):
community. So it was absolutelywonderful,
Amy Widdows (23:12):
right? And I guess that takes us then to a question
for Laura, what has the feedbackbeen? So far, the
Laura Bowman (23:20):
feedback has been very positive, and I think not
surprised, but a little bitsurprised at the way that it's
delivered. So we do start outwith the business case for what
disability inclusion in theworkforce can look like. And I
(23:41):
think that's a really strongcase that especially in
healthcare, we're used to nothearing we're used to hearing
individuals with disabilities asthe client, as the person
receiving care, and to talkabout them as part of the care
team. It's not always whatpeople expect. So really hearing
that that perspective shift fromwho we serve to who we're
(24:07):
looking to include in our teamis a big one in healthcare in
particular. So I think that hasbeen really meaningful,
especially requiring peopleattending the training to
consider this social model ofdisability, as opposed to their
typical biomedical service modelof someone with a disability. So
(24:27):
that's been a really positiveearly feedback. I think
engagement with employmentservice providers directly for
healthcare has been reallymeaningful. We've seen in
communities, a lot of naturalconnections and questions, a lot
of understanding that there areservices available that just
(24:47):
because you're a healthcareorganization and you're very
important, you're still likelyone of the largest hires in a
community, and you're availablein most communities because
healthcare, you know, you're notgoing anywhere without
healthcare. Sure, so reallyconnecting people to their local
employment service providers tobetter understand what resources
are already available in theircommunity to help them on this
(25:09):
journey, so that they don't haveto do it alone. A lot of I find
dei initiatives, healthcareorganizations and large
organizations like ours, tend tofeel that we need to build
something up from nothing, thatwe need to include people in a
way and figure it out fromsquare one, but we have
established things in ourcommunity, so I think that's
(25:31):
been really meaningful. We'vebeen able to people have been
able to integrate this work intotheir existing dei or other
organizational development andlearning, you know, inclusive
hiring pathways, so maybe nottaking the whole training, but
taking pieces or information orjust some of the resources that
we provide. And people reallyenjoyed the practical examples.
(25:55):
One thing that we meaningfullybuilt in was practical case
examples so that organizationscould have their people leaders
from either within teams oracross teams, have meaningful
discussions, not necessarilywith a correct answer. You know,
when we're talking about hiringor onboarding or performance
(26:15):
management, it's not always aclean conversation. It's going
to look different at everyorganization. So providing a
structure and a space for peopleleaders to meaningfully talk
about these experiences, torelate back and say, Oh,
remember two years ago in thatteam, when we had this issue,
reflect on what it means forthem, what it meant for their
(26:38):
team, and what they see as thepotential for moving forward in
light of this new information.So we've gotten a lot of really
positive feedback in terms ofreflection, in terms of
integration into what they'redoing, in terms of considering
how to move forward withdisability inclusion, and then
just about the training itself,that it's really, really
(27:01):
detailed organizations likethat, we provide not only a
slide deck, but all of thespeakers, notes in full form and
point form, that we haverecorded videos embedded, that
we have handouts available, justeverything is right at your
fingertips.
Lori Riding (27:19):
I think if I can add to that too, I think that
some of the feedback that we'vepersonally received here at
Halton from having delivered thetraining internally was that,
you know, it's a great resource.And those individuals who took
the training that, you know,they come from recruitment, they
come from first line orfrontline managers, and they
(27:42):
even were surprised with some ofthis information. They they
really did pay attention. Wereengaged in it, found it
interesting. And best of all, asLaura mentioned, you know, we're
not reinventing the wheel. Thereare resources that exist out
there. It's just maybe weweren't aware of them, or, you
know, had questions or wereunsure of things, didn't know
(28:04):
where to start, or how do weintegrate this into our existing
policies and procedures? Right?So I think that the feedback has
been, has been fantastic. Isthere some more work to do?
Absolutely, but I think this isa great starting point, and can
only go forward
Dean Askin (28:22):
So you've got all this really good feedback. I
mean, what would you like to seehappen? I mean, do you look at
this training in a box assomething that's already made,
template that could be adaptedor adopted, rather, by other
healthcare systems in otherprovinces? Or have you been
talking to anybody about that.Are you getting inquiries about
(28:42):
it? Laurie,
Lori Riding (28:44):
Oh, absolutely. I think we've said it a couple
times during this, this talk,but it's fully scalable. It's
fully customizable. You canadjust it however you need to.
You can deliver it however youneed to. I think the intention
with this, with this initiative,is really to provide education,
(29:04):
to provide, you know, healthcareleaders, but also, you know,
other front care frontlinemanagers, but also really give
them the opportunity to askquestions and become involved
and have those discussions. Andcan it be, you know, scalable
outside of outside or, sorry,across Canada. Absolutely. This
(29:26):
is not Ontario specific by anymeans. But I think it's a really
good building block for anyhealthcare organization, or, to
be honest, for any any industryreally right in terms of
improving their theirdisability, hiring and inclusion
strategies.
Dean Askin (29:45):
Laura, what about you?
Laura Bowman (29:46):
Yeah, I, I think it can be adopted by any, any
organization across the country,and I also think it can be
adopted across sectors. We, weprovided. Examples that are
specific to healthcare and somethat are specific to Ontario,
but the information and contextreally is meant to be adaptable
(30:09):
from square one. So to add inexamples from different
industries, that's somethingthat we're hopeful people can
do, and we're hopeful, might bea future step for us as well, to
help contribute to that, to makesure that the information lives
on and lives broader that this,this population that is so ready
(30:32):
to enter the workforce, and aworkforce that's so in need of
workers, individuals with theirlived experience, creativity,
problem solving and justknowledge, need to come
together. And for me, you know,I do, I see this resources as a
starting point. I'm really drawnto this concept from the zero
(30:55):
waste food movement, which is,we don't need a handful of
people doing this perfectly. Weneed millions of people doing it
imperfectly. So we wantorganizations, healthcare or
otherwise, to try to makemistakes, to learn and grow and
build an identity of inclusiveemployment in a way that works
(31:18):
for them, for their staff, theircommunity, their you know,
strategic mission, their vision,however it is, so we gave a
template, we gave someresources. And now it's time for
organizations, healthcare ornot, to to take this where they
want to go, to add it to theirroster of how they bring this
(31:41):
kind of ethos forward. And Ithink healthcare or not, it's a
usable resource, and it linksyou to other really important
and seminal resources in Canadaand Ontario. I
Dean Askin (31:54):
I want you to look into your crystal ball for a
minute here. I mean, Laurie, youkind of mentioned a few minutes
ago about a few of the thingsthat have happened right away as
a result of this, but down theroad, a year, two years, five
years, 10 years, what impact doyou think ihtr could make on the
healthcare, Human Resourcescrisis, or what impact do you
(32:15):
hope it's going to have?
Lori Riding (32:17):
Yeah, I guess I look at it as we want to try to
bridge the gap. You know, we wespoke about where the health,
healthcare, healthcare shortagesare today. And we also know that
there's many, many individualsout there with disabilities,
invisible or not, who want towork, and we need to find a way
(32:37):
to bridge that gap. And we thinkthat this, this initiative,
provides that education,provides that training, gives a
lens to disability, inclusivehiring, to employers and and
ways to do that, right? So Ithink, I think in the long run,
it's, it's going to, you know,offer a great long term
(32:58):
strategy. It's not a quick fix.This is not a one stop shop,
absolutely. Is it going to taketime? Yes, absolutely, well, but
I like Laura's analogy of manypeople and doing things, perhaps
imperfectly, rather than oneperson, but it's, it's going to
take a while, but it's a greatstart, and it's the it's the
(33:19):
right thing to do. It's what weshould be doing.
Dean Askin (33:22):
Laura, you're nodding there. What's your
vision or hope?
Laura Bowman (33:25):
And I'll agree with Lori. I hope this work in
identifying a skilled domesticworkforce is helpful for
healthcare and sets an examplefor other industries that we
bring in individuals who areskilled, who are ready and who
are unemployed or underemployedfor reasons that are really, you
(33:45):
know, discriminatory. But I alsowant to point out the importance
of representation in theworkforce, so bringing
individuals with disabilitiesinto the workforce where they
can be visible, where they canadvocate. When job seekers with
disabilities see employees withdisabilities thriving, it gives
(34:07):
them a way to imagine themselvesin a valued and meaningful role,
so that not only benefits theemployee, but future job seekers
who are motivated and trulybelieve that they can make that
impact, making them moredesirable and retainable
employees. Moving forward, youare making an impression on a
(34:28):
workforce, on a future,sustainable workforce, who
understand how they can be mostvaluable in your organization
and in your sector. And theother thing for me is the
collaborative process, thishuman centered design process
that we undertook together. Sothis process of using human
(34:48):
centered design withinhealthcare to understand what's
really going on, what the trueconcerns were, the ugly
concerns, the reallycontextually bound. Concerns
through that, we were able tobegin to ground ourselves with
one foot in acknowledgement, oneside in acknowledgement, and one
(35:09):
side in possibility. So I'mhoping we can take this forward
with acknowledging where ourindustries are right now and
considering what might bedifferent, what might we be able
to change if we took stepstowards more disability
inclusive workforces using thisresource, using whatever is at hand.
Amy Widdows (35:32):
Thank you. So this next question is for both of
you, you both held a differentparts of this project over the
past year. What's been the mostrewarding thing about being part
of the ihtr project?
Laura Bowman (35:46):
For me, it's seeing teams build confidence.
So I tend to get my back upabout disability inclusive
hiring. You know, why aren't youdoing it? You should be doing
it. Everyone should just know.And it's good to remember that
our sectors are full of goodpeople doing the best they can.
So by sharing our knowledge andour tools to promote confidence,
(36:09):
we see the small learnings, thesmall wins. I love hearing about
just a small change that worked,or even a team having a really
hard discussion that went well,or even went just all right. But
they had it. They had theconversation. They I really
just, I love learning aboutteams that connected to local
(36:31):
employment service providers,sometimes for the first time,
especially within healthcare,where we're we're used to these
really big innovations, thesereally big dollars spent on
creating and translating andlearning, seeing that a free
resource can really change thiskind of practice, and then it
(36:53):
doesn't cost a thing. I thinkit, I think it says everything.
I think when we look at when welook at learning, when we look
at sharing knowledge, when welook at the power of
collaboration, that's that'sbeen so meaningful. Absolutely,
Lori Riding (37:06):
Laura and I think it's a little bit of a paradigm
shift, right? It's, can'tcontinue doing the same things
the same way we've been doingthem for however long, and
expect a different result,right? We've all heard that, but
I think inclusion is notcomplicated. It's just, it just
needs intention. It needs theright tools. It needs the right
(37:27):
the right partners and listeningright. I've always said it, I
people want to work. People withdisabilities want to work. They
want to contribute. They wantto, you know, go in society,
help society. They want to earnan income, all of these things.
And I think the IHT ihtr programreally makes you know this
(37:49):
tangible hiring, hiringinclusively really does
strengthen healthcare. Itstrengthens it for everyone. So
Amy Widdows (37:58):
Lori, what's, what's the most important
message that you would wantanyone listening to this
conversation right now to takeaway from it?
Lori Riding (38:07):
Anyone listening to this conversation, I would say,
is we need to try. We need tomove forward and disability
inclusive hiring is the rightthing to do. We need to take a
look, a good, hard look at ourpractices and our policies and
see where we can improve on youknow what we're currently doing
(38:27):
right? We know that there's agap in in our healthcare sector,
and we know there's people whowant to work and who need to
work and who can work, who aretalented individuals who can
bring so so much to the employerand to to the industry, and, as
Laura mentioned, otherindustries as well, but in
healthcare, absolutely, there's,there's so many different
(38:49):
things. And I'm looking forwardto seeing this grow and
implemented. As you know,especially, I'll start with
Halton healthcare, right? I'mlooking forward to seeing how
our program develops, and seehow it flourishes with time and
growth.
Amy Widdows (39:06):
Laura, anything to add to
Laura Bowman (39:07):
that. I mean, if you're listening to this
wonderful podcast, I'm not goingto waste your time convincing
you about the importance ofdisability inclusive employment.
But I think for me, there aretwo things that I want people to
take away. So small change ischange. Not everything has to be
(39:28):
a full scale dei overhaul. Sodon't let fear of an
overwhelming change stop youfrom from approaching change at
all. Stop you from making onechoice that would be a movement
towards disability inclusivehiring, or disability inclusive
employment in general. And thesecond is to find your
(39:48):
champions. Work together, worksmarter, not harder. You know,
we work with champions withinour sector to see what they
needed. And it turns out that alot of the information. In a lot
of the examples that peoplewanted were already available,
either within our network or inavailable resources. So we, you
(40:09):
know, for the ihtr team and forHolland Bloorview, with our
example, our internal littletest space, we were able to
package it in a way that wasmeaningful for healthcare, that
was meaningful for Ontariohealthcare. Specifically, we
didn't have to reinvent theconcept of employment from
(40:30):
square one. So really, just findyour champions. Take small
steps. Changes. Change
Dean Askin (40:35):
Great insights, great and great insights in your
first podcast interview, LauraSol, it comes back to me to ask
my trademark last question. Imean, we've had a great
conversation, and we've coveredso many different aspects of
ihtr. Is there anything wehaven't talked about that you
think is important to mentionbefore we wrap it up?
Laura Bowman (40:56):
I think the most important thing is the website,
which is Holland,ploreview.ca/ihtr, all of the
resources are available forfree. My emails on the website,
if you have any questions orjust want to reach out and Lori anything,
Lori Riding (41:15):
I think the biggest thing is, I just would like to
say, you know, thank you to allof our amazing partners who who
made this program possible.Everyone works so hard, and
it's, I'm so proud of theproject. I think, I think it's
absolutely incredible. And youknow, again, it's just the
beginning, but we do hope thatit sparks even more inclusive
hiring conversations andactions. So thank
Laura Bowman (41:38):
you, and thanks to you, Dean and Amy,
Amy Widdows (41:40):
Okay, well, Laura and Lori, thanks again for
coming on the show to let us letthe world know about inspire,
hire, train and retain becausethe World Health Organization
projects that there'll be ashortage of 15 million
healthcare workers globally, by2030 and the United Nations has
noted that unemployment rate ofpeople who have a disability is
(42:04):
around twice that for peoplewithout disabilities. And
Dean Askin (42:07):
You know what? That's pretty much in line with
what Statistics Canada says forthis country. I think the stat
can said in their 2022 Canadiansurvey on disability that the
overall unemployment rate forCanadians aged 16 to 24 who have
a disability, it's like 13.3%compared to 7.1% for people
(42:27):
without disabilities, and it'ssomething like 5.7% versus 3.1%
for the 25 to 54 age bracket,
Amy Widdows (42:34):
Exactly Dean. That's why I can't help
thinking, wouldn't it be greatif this disability inclusive,
hiring, training in a box modelwas eventually adopted by not
only every hospital in Ontario,but by hospitals in other
provinces, here in Canada, andby hospitals in other countries
too. And of course, I'm sayingall that with the reminder again
(42:55):
that I was one of the people onthe ihtr steering committee. It
was an exciting, groundbreakinginitiative to be involved in.
Dean Askin (43:02):
Definitely an exciting initiative. Amy, of
course, I'm saying that from theperspective of coming from a
journalism background andthinking, Oh, this is a good
story. We have to do an episodeabout ihtr, and we can make it
part of a series on disabilityinclusion initiatives in a
couple of major sectors inCanada. So thanks from me, Laura
and Laurie, for jumping at thechance to come on the show and
(43:25):
talk about ihtr. Been a great conversation.
Amy Widdows (43:28):
We know that episodes of the show get
downloaded all over the world,so who knows, maybe, just maybe,
one or some of those people whodownload this episode will turn
out to be a hospital of humanresources, and you'll find
emails in your inboxes askingfor more information about ihtr.
We will have links to theinformation about the ihtr
project and the trainingresources in the show notes for
(43:51):
this episode.
Laura Bowman (43:52):
Thanks, Amy, thanks Dean.
Dean Askin (43:54):
Thanks so much. Well, you know, I happen to be
an idealist champion personalitytype, so I'd like to think the
conversation we've just hadabout ihtr is going to make an
impact somewhere and inspireother conversations about how
more disability, inclusivehiring and hospital networks can
help alleviate not only thehealthcare, Human Resources
(44:15):
crisis, but lower thoseunemployment rates I mentioned a
couple of minutes ago.
Amy Widdows (44:19):
Well, ihtr is a start anyway, and well, we're at
the end. That's it for thisepisode. Of you can't spell
inclusion without a dean. Hopeyou'll join us for the next one.
In episode 35 we'll have afeature interview with Canadian
actor Sean toge, who has livedexperience with disability.
That's
Dean Askin (44:37):
right, he's the star, creator, writer and
producer of you are my hero.That's a comedy series on CBC,
Gem about a 20 something youngman who has cerebral palsy who
is navigating his way in anaccessible world.
Amy Widdows (44:52):
Sean has a sharp wit and sense of humor and some
deep insights about disabilityinclusion. So be sure to join us
for that conversation comingJuly 22, I'm Amy widdows
Dean Askin (45:02):
And I'm Dean Askin. Thanks again for listening
wherever, whenever and onwhatever podcast app you're
listening from, join us eachepisode as we have insightful
(45:25):
conversations like this one withLaura Bowman and Laurie riding
about championing disabilityinclusion in healthcare with the
ihtr initiative and exploredisability inclusion in business
(45:52):
and in our communities from allthe angles you can't spell
inclusion without a D, asproduced in Toronto, Canada by
the Ontario DisabilityEmployment Network. Our podcast
(46:17):
production team, executiveproducer and co host Amy
widdows, our producer is SueDefoe, associate producer and co
host, Dean Askin. Audio editingand production is by Dean Askin.
(46:43):
Our podcast theme is lastsummer, by ixin. If you have
feedback or comments about anepisode, email us at
info@odanetwork.com that's infoat o d, e, n, e, t, w, O, R,
(47:07):
k.com, join us each episode forinsights from expert guests as
we explore the power ofinclusion, the business benefits
of inclusive hiring andfostering an inclusive culture,
(47:33):
and why disability is animportant part of the diversity,
equity, inclusion andaccessibility conversation. Tune
into you can't spell inclusionwithout a dean podbean or
(47:57):
wherever you Find your favorite podcasts.
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