The Hard Part

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Multiple people in my family clean my father, are veterans.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
And the troops that have been to war and now
they're back and think and be grateful for their service.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Sacrifice, love for their country, just unselfishness, all that they
do for us.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
There are some people in this country who take extraordinary
steps to provide for the freedom and security. We forget
that those people exist.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
We know them as the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines,
and Coast Guard. They call themselves soldiers, seals, rangers, airmen, sailors,
devil dogs, and so much more. We call them fathers, brothers,
sons and husbands, mothers, daughters, sisters and wives. We call

(00:49):
them friend and neighbor. These veterans answered the call. Now
we answer Theirs are the best our country has to offer,
and we love them. Today, we honor them and we
starve them. David Malsby is your host, and he welcomes

(01:15):
you to this community of veterans, as together we are
building the road to hope.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
And indeed we are glad to have you along on
this Sunday afternoon. Those of you listening through the nine
to five oh on the AM, I'll thank you so
much for joining us. Those of you listening to the
Magic podcast. Thank you. Wherever you listen to podcasts, just
look for Road to Hope Radio. There we are and
as with everything that we do at the PTSD Foundation America,

(01:43):
absolutely free of charge, no cost to you. We truly
appreciate it. When you hit that little subscribe button, it'll
automatically download each and every week when the new episode
is posted, and it's a great way for you to
not only stay up with some of the great stories
and things that are happening in the lives veterans around
our program, but also events coming up ways that you

(02:05):
can be involved. Going to share a couple of those
in the course of the show to David. Great thanks
to those who follow us share our story. You never
know who may come into contact with us through you
sharing our story a little bit and can be a
part of absolutely saving or changing a life dramatically, not

(02:26):
just the life of that veteran, but for everybody that
is impacted by that veteran's life. So thank you so
very much for sharing our story. Big thanks to our
show sponsors allows this opportunity to spend a little time
with you each and every week. Great friends, Billy and
Connie Stagner ac ri I ac ri I, Cory Diamond
and Design two eight one two seven fifty five.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
I got.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
I got news that on one of our board members
is getting married today actually this Sunday, and Uh he
made a quick trip down to friends with so are
awesome friends and supporters Billy and Connie Stagner, and UH
picked up the engagement ring and pretty excited about supporting

(03:15):
those who support our causes, supporting those who share our
values at Corey acu Ri at Corey Diamond and Design,
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don't oopsteam dot com two eight one eight two two
zero five six one. When you're gonna let somebody into
your house to do some things that need to be
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(03:36):
that you can trust, oops steam dot com. And when
you're ready to buy that that little piece of Texas
that you want to build your dream home on, you
want to make sure it's not just the dream home,
but the dream location. Republic Grand Ranch dot Com and
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(03:57):
veterans law enforcement that bought property out there. Whether you're
ready to break ground tomorrow or whether it's going to
be seven eight years down the road before you're ready
to build by the piece of property while you have
the chance. Republic Grand Ranch dot Com mentioned just quickly,
there's a couple of major events coming up here in
the Houston area that are opportunities for you to support

(04:23):
what goes on with the PTSD Foundation in America. Again,
we are serving veterans from every branch, every era of war.
When they come into Camp Hope, they're coming from all
across the country that are living with us six to
nine months, sometimes up to two years, going through our program.
And it's all at zero cost to them. Well, it
is at a cost, it's just not a cost to them.

(04:45):
This is where the community decides. Our veterans, their families
have paid high enough price, They sacrificed enough. It's our turns,
the community to turn around and make sure our veterans
are supplied everything they need as they return home carrying
the t rama of war. So here's just a fun opportunity.
Some people like these things, some don't. If you don't,

(05:06):
that's fine, you don't have to jump up and down
yell to everybody you don't. But coming up next month,
actually just a couple of weeks away now, October the eleventh.
The Grateful American's charity organization propped itself up about eight
nine years ago now specifically to raise money in support

(05:29):
of the programs that we run at the PTSD Foundation
of America October eleventh Ballroom and Byue Place the annual
gala that they are hosting. It's going to be a
great night. If you like the gala scene, this is it.
This is your chance. This is the only one that
we're part of in the course of the year that's
dedicated to the PTSD Foundation of America. October eleventh. If

(05:51):
you follow us on social media for the radio show,
it's Road to Hope Radio. Just look for Road Hope
Radio on Facebook for the foundation both on Let's See
the X and the YouTube and Facebook. All those are
PTSD USA, just as with our website PTSDUSA dot org.
So again PTSD USA, all the informations there. Hey, if

(06:16):
you can't attend, don't want to attend, there's still other
ways you can be involved in the raffle items, the
sile on auction line. There's a way to do that online.
There's a way just to simply make a donation through
the event, but I'd love to see if some of
our friends there. It's a lot of fun and you know,
full disclosure, Galea is not really my favorite thing. But

(06:38):
what I do like about this one one is they're
supporting our veterans at Camp Hope. But also it's just
a great, great group of people. And I think of
all the things that happen through the years through the
foundation and the mission, you just meet some of the
greatest people you could ever hope to meet. And it's
veterans coming through the program. It's family, but it's also

(06:59):
the community that find a way to support each other,
find a way to make sure our programs thrive. So
when our veterans need to be able to pick up
the phone and make the call, we've got someone there
to answer. We've got a bed available if that's what's needed.
We've got support groups available if that's needed. We have

(07:20):
period of peermentoring if that's needed. We have clinical counseling
if that's needed. The only way we're able to do
it is events like this. So this may be something
you don't like the golf, you don't like, crawfish, you
don't like you know all the other things. The five
k's all that fine. This is your chance Houston Gala

(07:42):
October eleven, and it's a lot of fun. Again. You
can find all the information on our social media ptsd
USA or Road to Hope Radio. All right, we can
take a quick break, be right back with more of
Road Hope Radio. Glad to have you back. Welcome Road

(08:11):
Off Radio with David Malsby. Here. We got a couple
of combat that's in the room wherever with us. Justin
glad to see you back. Some am I familiar face
on the show. I want to reintroduce yourself to the world. Yeah,
my name is Justin.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
I served in the Marine Corps back in ninety eight
to two, served in Kosovo, and I got to Camp
Hope four years ago and graduated.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
I've worked there ever since.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
And we are glad you have, grateful to have you
on our team. And then all you want to introduce
yourself to the world.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
How you guys doing this morning? My name is Ali
and Joe.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
I served in the Marine Corps from December nineteen ninety
eight all the way to December twenty.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Ten, and you deployed a lot of places. Yes, sir,
hit that hit that stamp book on the on the passport.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Absolutely absolutely I was.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
I was blessed enough to deploy Iraq in two thousand
and three and also again in two thousand and eight,
in two thousand and nine. Prior to that, I was
also I did two West bacs over and when I
was attached to first Marines, which i've ended, which I
was blessed again uh to go to a lot of

(09:29):
countries UH into Africa, Jibuti Africa. My ship was also
one of the main ships that responded to the bombing
of the uns As coal in two thousand I believe,
and also my second deployment, we were able to we were
attacked by terrorist attack. We had a terrorist attack that
happened in Fallaka Island off the coast of Kuwait. And

(09:53):
after that I was invasion which I was part of
r C T one, which was which was led by
General Madis And again, like I said, I put it
again Iraq in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Just in Kosovo. Obviously there's some folks might be hearing
this that aren't really familiar with what happened in KOs
of O. It's crazy to me because I look back even
like you know, nine to eleven and just being so
impactful to everyone and everything. But now we are far

(10:33):
enough separated from it. We have military members who weren't
alife for that, and so it's all you know, a
history book or a video or a documentary and there's
something for that. Same way with Kosovo. I've heard the

(10:55):
name that I wasn't really sure if that was a
particular kind of fuz. Yeah, it's uh.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
And it's funny too because back then, no one I
hadn't heard of Kosovo. I think most people have heard
of Monica Lewinsky and a certain cigar that that dominated
the media at the time. But yeah, it was Serbian Albania.
We're breaking up, uh and formed this new country of Kosovo.

(11:22):
And there was a leader there, Serbian leader Slabanon Melosovich,
and he did not like certain ethnic groups, so they
went through and eliminated them, the whole villages, just brutal,
brutal stuff, and the world stepped in the UN NATO

(11:43):
and Uh, I got my unit got a chance to
go in there and kind of we were the fist
or the hammer to certain areas that were getting a
little bit rowdy with some of the NATO troops, so
they called in the Marines to hey.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Campa down. Yeah, Tampa down a little bit and polite
way of saying it.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, And some of the things you see, I mean,
you got nineteen year old, twenty year old kids, and
I've heard terms like genocide, but when you see it
with your own eyes, it's just like, you can't imagine
that a human being would want to do that to
another human being just because of their ethnic background. And

(12:28):
it's eye opening. When you see that part of the
world or you see evil, you can actually identify it
and it's life changing.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
I was only there for a short time.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
I think we're there for about twenty eight days, and
that time that would have been about two thousand, two
thousand and one. And Ali mentioned it that I was
on ship when the USS coal got bombed. I was
on a navy vessel. In that time of the world world,
there was embassy bombings happening in Africa, the USS coal

(13:08):
got bombed, and I think.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
The attack in Flock Island as well.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
I mean, there was there was something happening there, and uh,
you know, Marines, we were going this way, we're going
that way, and we're on you know the tip of
the sphear. We're in a marine expeditionary unit in the
Mediterranean and we were literally parked off the coast of Africa,
coast of oh Like. We were ready to respond wherever man. Uh.

(13:35):
And then when we got home, you two thousand and one,
I was getting ready to get out after four years.
But we we knew there's something ruin. There was something
going on, and uh, I think we heard terms of
al Qaeda. You start to hear these little things. You
get briefed on certain things, and uh, as a marine,

(13:56):
you're America's nine to one one for us, You're you're
expttionary units. You're ready to it, to deploy wherever. And
it was just a matter of where was it Haiti?
Was it going to be here?

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Was it going to be there? Yeah? That was gosh.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
And there's guys right now. I mean I was in
the Marines when that went down. There are guys that
are serving getting out coming to Camp Hope that may
not have been born yet. It kind of makes me
feel like an old fart.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Uh. You know, it's interesting, as you mentioned that, so
many different types of trauma, so many different events I
guess associated with combat and with war and was as
you mentioned, things like the genocide and all that. Through
the years, I've talked to so many particularly a lot

(14:51):
of korm and a lot of medics, and it was
it was for them getting everybody's stories, their own story
a little different from the next persons, but a lot
of similarities too. For them, it wasn't so much, you know,
they wouldn't describe themselves as having been blown up or
some of those types of things, but the human atrocity

(15:14):
one human being could do to another. I remember anytime
I hear that, I kind of harkened back to one
of the very first support groups that we ran. Oddly enough,
I was running away like the civilian in the room.
But there was a guy that came into that group

(15:36):
for three months, every single week, never said a word,
just the blank stare, never said a word. Finally, over
a couple of years he'd speak a little bit here
and there, and enough over time he kind of pieced
together a little bit that this guy, part of his
job in Vietnam was picking up the remains, and you

(16:00):
could just it completely shut his brain down because he
could not hold a normal conversation. There was no way
the guy could ever hold a job. He was just
so detached from reality. And you go, no, wonder once
you kind of peace a little bit here, and they're like,

(16:20):
if that's your job? And then you know, trauma doesn't
do nice things to bodies. It's ugly. And I not
have been to war, but I've seen enough trauma from
I murdered victims, suicide victims, automobile accidents, all all that stuff.
It's ugly. Everything about it's ugly. So you mentioned some

(16:42):
of the things you see, some of the things you
and here's you can be in Kosovo, it can be
an eighty, it can be at Vietnam. It'd certainly be
in Afghanistan or Iraq or a million other places. It
all eventually ends up looking pretty much the same, doesn't it.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
Absolutely the destigation of a human body is really that's
something that you don't forget and to see other people actually.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
Do it in a way of like so inhuman it
changes a lot.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
I remember because I was on the ground when Fa
Loock Island happened, and I actually was about one hundred
yards away from people that actually did the drive by,
but they didn't execute until we left.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Hang on every just a second, we're gonna have to
run to a news break here real quickly. It's a
hard break, so not much I can do about it,
but I'm gonna pick back up on that in a minute.
A reminder eight seven seven seven one seven seventy eight
seventy three. A combat trauma crisis line answered by a
combat vet twenty four hours a day, three hundred and
sixty five days a year. Eight seven seven seven one

(17:51):
seven seventy eight seventy three. Take a quick news break.
We'll be right back with more of a road to
hope right here, and were walking back. I got a

(18:13):
couple of Marines in the studio with us. Everybody feel
safe for threatened, whichever way you wanted to click at it.
I always feel like the safest guy in town. Like
I feel pretty safe about where we're at. Okay, you
were talking about being on the ground when when that
attack took place.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
Absolutely just just the thing is, when you see just
human remains everywhere, it's pretty vivid. But when you start
seeing women and kids involved, and that's when you start
questioning everything. For me, I start questioning God in those
moments for letting stuff like that happen. But that's not

(18:54):
the case, but those moments though, like it's it's you
question everything, you know. I remember there was a city
we went to, Flock Island. I'm sorry, uh uh, Battle
of Nasarea. It was an Iraq.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
There was bodies everywhere, bodies on the road. Uh.

Speaker 5 (19:17):
I'll tell you what, man, that's a day I'll never
forget my life. And I remember doing after all that.
We had a sandstorm that happened that night, and I
truly believed that God was speaking to us that day.
It was so bad that MVG's wouldn't work, you know.

(19:41):
But I'm just glad I'm back at home. I'm just
glad to be back at.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Home, justin I don't know. I guess there's a there's
a possibility for literally anything, but it would probably concern
me more if one human being could see that kind
of destruction and it not affect them.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
And like Ali was saying that, when people celebrate that
or enjoy that and then go do it again, it's
just it's, you know, and that's part of where the
trauma comes from, is from that moral injury of seeing that.
And there are times where we have to protect our

(20:32):
brothers and protect the innocent and and you question yourself.
Am I am I as bad as that other person?
And we have to rely on our faith. And you know,
we literally signed up for the Marines to protect.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
I know I did.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I signed up to protect and that's what I'm doing.
I'm protecting that guy to my left and right. So
you have that moral injury. And then Ali was kind
of talking about it the images for me, the unseen triggers.
You could be having a great day and then just
a waft.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
A smell of something.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Can put you right back, and and that that that
was the thing that I was ignoring for myself and
not admitting that I had triggers and not even knowing
what happened. I would be in a different mental state
hours later and just upset and not even knew what happened.

(21:34):
And then it's kind of like, oh wait a minute,
you know, there was this raccoon in the event or something,
and that could really trigger something. So it took a
shoot for me. It took a couple of decades to
actually come to realization that I needed some help. I
needed to address things, these things. But I think the

(21:57):
human body that we're the most beautiful creatures, you know,
and God gave us one of the greatest gifts, and
that is free will. And to see someone use that
free will to harm others, it's it's a it's horrible
to see that. Yeah, I honestly I can't fathom it,

(22:19):
even though we've seen some evil, but there is evil
in the world, you know.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
And a lot of guys struggle with that.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
There's a lot of guys committing suicide because of you know,
things that have happened out there. I know a bunch
of guys and it's just it's just kind of hard
to know exactly why they did it, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
But yeah, I have some theories that aren't super popular, probably,
And when it comes to suicide, I'm just a firm believer.
Even if someone writes out, for instance, a suicide note
and leaves it, I don't think you can trust it
for a second. The human mind and the human DNA
is to fight for life. So for an individual get

(23:05):
to the place where they are contemplating, planning out executing suicide,
there has to be so much mental health damage done.
But you cannot trust what the individual is saying even
in that moment. It's just like if a heart's not functioning, right.

(23:25):
You know you're not going to go run a marathon, right, Like, well,
what's causing the person to do this? We had a
guy on the show probably about a month or so ago. Now,
he's a Navy guy, and he was talking about he
was tying the noose and when his wife wife found him.
Whatever the mode, whatever the plan for some for the
human mind to get to that place, there has to

(23:47):
be so much mental health damage. All you can really
do as a friend, an observer, whatever it may happen
to be, is try to stop it in the moment
so that you can start to address what that mental
health issue is and get it to a healthier place,
because that is not a healthy mind that makes the decision.

(24:09):
That's what I'm going to do. I'm just a firm
believer in that. I don't know that anyone agrees with me,
or a lot of people. I don't really know. It's
just my opinion. I've just been around a lot of it,
and you try to figure it out, and that's where
I think you can. You can drive yourself to a
position of insanity. And this is true about whatever trying

(24:29):
to understand or make sense or logic out of that
which is not logical. You drive yourself completely insane trying
to do that. Some things just aren't going to make sense,
and I think suicide is one. I think that's one
of the evil things about suicide. Everyone associated and maybe

(24:50):
all you do is you've heard the person's name, or
you went to high school together forty years ago, you
never had a conversation, then you haven't had a conversation since.
Still you hear it, and there's just this sense of guilt.
Maybe I should have said it something, Maybe maybe I
should have known, maybe I should have been aware, because
you just feel that when it comes to suicide. But

(25:12):
you both mentioned God in your conversations. I want to
come back to that. You mentioned you ask yourself the question,
if there is a God, how in the world right? Well,
how do you not ask that question?

Speaker 4 (25:29):
Is my deal?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
And I think one of the great things that happens
at our foundation. And look, folks, all of us experienced trauma.
So these principles are going to be true. Whether it's
combat related or not. We've all experienced some trauma. So
these truths are going to be very applicable to whatever
your trauma is in your life. Because you mentioned some
of the things that can trigger like I had a

(25:52):
memory come up the other day out of completely nowhere
and obviously not combat related, but just back to a
traum and like, where did the world did that come from? Right?
And you have to know that that can happen. How
do you ground yourself and all that kind of stuff,
and that stuff's going on. But one of the great
things that we are able to do at the Foundation

(26:13):
is let's do ask the question where was God when
all this nonsense was going on? And if there is
a God, you know, why does any intercede? And that
goes back to the whole free will thing. That's a
lot of debate in religious circles. That's not for this show,

(26:33):
but it's just it's true. We're not robots on a string.
So how did you begin to We only got a
couple of minutes here, but how did you begin to
work your way through that question? And not be afraid
to ask it? But let's put it out there and
let's walk through it.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
To be honest, my walk actually became stronger when I
got to Camp Hope because I try to avoid it
for a long long time. I was I was actually
I grew up Muslim it's not until I went to
Iraq that I finally made that decision like this is
not you know, I'm not you know, drowning on any

(27:13):
Muslims or anything like that. But for me, the vision
that I had, you know, what Muslim was supposed to
be like when I got to the Middle East, I
felt like I was lied to in a lot of ways.
And for the longest, I just didn't even want to
be part of, you know, in any kind of religious background.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
I just wanted to walk my walk.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
But I'm so glad today because the way things are
working at Camp Hope is just you can't explain it,
you feel it. All my problems have been not all
my problems, Like most of my problems that I've had
in my head gets solved just for me just speaking
it out to my fellow brothers.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And I just think that's so unique to me.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
And I've never felt this good about talking about religion,
to be honest with you, and I had to get
comfortable with it, and and I got comfortable with out.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
For sure, I'm not sure that it is unique to you.
I think a lot of us, like we can think things,
but when we actually start verbalizing them and we hear
it it like, oh, that didn't sound the way I
thought it was kind of sound. I think a lot

(28:35):
of us, I know I have like that sounded better
before I said it. All right, ptsdusa dot org is
the website again, ptsd USA on the X machine, Facebook
YouTube ptsd usa. And for the radio show, wherever you
find your podcast, look for Road to Hope Radio on Facebook.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Road to Hope Radio.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
All right, we were right back with more Road to
Hope and we're welcome back. Glad to have you along
a couple of Marines in the show with us here today.
All you mentioned Muslim before joining up in the Marine corpses.

(29:23):
What else? Describe your life? Where are you from?

Speaker 4 (29:25):
I'm actually from Senegal. I was born in Afria, Senegal, Africa.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Okay, when'd you come to the States.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
I moved to the States when I was eleven years
old with my father, probably that I was living with
my grandmother and my you know, my biological mother. But yeah,
I got here in ninety one when I was eleven
years old. Joined the Marines when I was nineteen.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
What why did you Why do you think you made
that choice? Because coming from another country, coming in and
at eleven years old. There's a lot starting to happen
when you're eleven years old, and now you're gonna be
thrust into an completely different everything.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
Right, Well, to be honest, I've stually been on my
own since I was sixteen years old, and I noticed that.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
That wasn't great.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
You know, I was in from the school of academia.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Not the best, right.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah, So when I spoke with the Marine recruiters, where
were you here in Houston, Texas? Yes, sir, actually I
got recruited right here in Shops Down Mall formerly known
Shops Down Mall.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah I am. It was a great experience. I love
the Marine Corps.

Speaker 5 (30:30):
That's when I finally found out that I was good
at something. And now, speaking of nine to eleven, I
actually graduated sniper school two days after September eleventh, So
September eleventh holds a buried special part from my heart.
But yeah, I didn't think I was gonna be a Marine.
I didn't even know what marines were, to be honest
with you, I knew Army, Air Force, and Navy, but

(30:52):
ifter seeing those guys in their uniforms, I wanted to
want to like those guys.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
The uniform. I've heard that so many times.

Speaker 4 (30:59):
Got them. Yeah, and they promised me infantry. You know,
there you go. I think I can get you in.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah kidding. So how long have you been at Camp
Hope right now? When did you get here last? Actually
it's my second stint Hope. I was here initially in
twenty nineteen. How'd you first hear about us?

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Through?

Speaker 5 (31:24):
Actually, one of my buddies had committed suicide. We were
at his funeral and we're all hurting, and one of
the guys that was at the funeral, Are Corman, happened
to get some information on Camp Hope. He actually graduated
from Camp Hope. And I remember seeing the guy afterwards.
The guy that I saw at the funeral and the

(31:45):
guy that I seen after graduation with two different human beings.
And at that time, I was going through you know, divorce,
I was going through all kinds of you know, chaotic
stuff going on in my life.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
I was my alcoholic disease and whatnot.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Watching him become the person that he was afterward, something
just told me I wanted I pretty much told myself
I want what he has without directly telling him that.
So he was able to give me the information for
Camp Hope. I submitted my information right after BAT and
during that time I was actually going through a divorce,

(32:20):
ugly ugly divorce. I was residing in Hawaii at the time,
and so I made that commitments soon as.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
I saw and what brought you back? What drove you
to come back the second time?

Speaker 5 (32:36):
It would have actually taken me longer to come back,
to be honest, I had. I had a good series
of success as I was out. I was actually volunteering,
you know, for the Foundation for a while, helping out
in San Antonio, and started getting bad again with my family.
I tried doing a school thing and my children We're

(33:00):
in a really, really bad situation and I could not
win that court battle because I've given my ex wife
and the court systems so much ammunition.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
That that was not going to get my kids back.

Speaker 5 (33:13):
So I started reboarding back to self medicating again, thinking,
you know that I can handle it by pushing God
to the side, like hey God, I got this, And
God reminded me really quick.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
You know.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
It gotten so bad that I didn't want to be
around anybody else. I started like isolating again, sending in
the hotel, just kept staring at my you know my
glock twenty two, you know, not taking showers and just
in the dark, dark places and Lord behold, you know,

(33:50):
God's grace. Another friend of mine who went through the
program actually convinced me to come back.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
And at that.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
Point it was either that or you know, to be honest,
which it was checking out m.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
Hm, because I had nothing. I did have my family
that I didn't have.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
I wasn't you know, I did have a relationship with
my father, nobody. I was pretty much alone again, and
I had to give it a try. I just didn't
want to give up.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Just going to switch over to you for this particular
question without volting too much. Your pre show Allie had
mentioned it's a rough week work in the program as
someone who's gone through that completed it, and now you know,
on the other side, really at the table, bringing guy helping,

(34:39):
bring guys in, helping them, and you know what's going
to happen while they're with us. So there's some certain
things you know are going to happen. You never know
exactly when what the pace is going to be, but
there are certain things you know are going to happen
during the course of someone's time with us. But when
you see someone in that mode, like maybe they're working
on their third step four or whatever. Maybe it's something

(35:03):
at home, maybe it's you know, some crisis, but you
see them in those moments and you can just kind
of see it on your face. When you look back
on that years later, now you have to see it
a little differently than when you were going through it yourself.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I call it the two months slump. You know,
do you think everything's going well, everything's starting to change,
and then you have to get real and you have
to get in there and you got to face some demons.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
And I see it.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I see guys. It's usually when they get quiet, and
you know, after their counseling sessions, you'll see them and
they're quiet. They might be isolating, sitting off to the side.
It's it's something that you have to have gone through
to understand. And what we do, you know, we'll tap

(35:58):
the guy in the shoulder, Hey, bro, how you doing?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Man?

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Remember why you started, you know, and we have to laugh.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
We have to remember why we're there, lean on each
other in good times and the bad, and uh yeah,
it's it's gonna get it's gonna hurt, it's it's like
breaking a bone. You know, if you let it heal
on its own, it's gonna heal on its own, but
you're gonna be limping. In order to actually heal that bone,

(36:28):
you gotta rebreak it. We've let those bones heal over decades.
Now it's time to rebreak it. And that's gonna be.
It's gonna be. It's gonna be twice as hurtful. It's
gonna it's gonna be painful, but you're gonna have to
repair it surgically. It's gonna take time. And that's what
we're got. What we've got to remind each other. Hey man,
it's gonna hurt, but it's gonna be better.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And time is up. But just real fast, what what
are you hoping to walk out of this program with?

Speaker 5 (37:00):
And you're completed here, But I'm hoping for just better
understanding of myself because with these therapy sessions, I'm getting
a lot of understanding of myself because in the past,
I mean, I had all these triggers, but I didn't know,
you know, exactly what was going on internally. And now

(37:20):
I'm getting a solution on you know, how to use
proper communication with my loved ones like Justin was just
saying it's painful. Yeah, indeed, I'm kind of going through
that right now. But but I know for a fact
at the end of the road, it's going to be
so much better.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, keep doing the work. It'll get there, and I
know in the moment there are seasons while here at
camp it's really rough. Keep doing the work, and Justin,
thanks for what you're doing. Keep keep encouraging these guys
the way you do as only as you can't. Forever
grateful mentioned earlier. Gala coming up Houston October eleventh. Also

(37:57):
October twenty is the Brayden Bayley Memorial. I think it's
the twentieth anniversary, our twentieth annual, I should say, golf
tournament on Monday, October twenty. I will have links to
both of those on our Facebook pages. Look for Road
to Hope Radio find links to both of those events.

(38:18):
That both of those are a lot of fun, completely different. Obviously,
one's gonna dress up and do the gala. One's gonna
go out and play golf and have a lot of fun,
meet a lot of great people. Either way, So big,
big thank you to everyone who supports what we're able
to do. These stories you hear each and every week
only possible because our community steps up and make sure
our programs exist and that they thrive. So thank you

(38:40):
so much. Justin again, thanks for what you do, Ali,
Thanks for doing the Work program. Look forward to hearing
some really, really good things coming out as you move forward. Again,
thanks for listening. Where have you listen to podcasts? Road
to Hope Radio? Have great week. Everybody can be