Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Multiple people in my family clean my father are veterans.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Troops that have been to war and now they're.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Back and think and be grateful for their service.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Sacrifice, love for their country, just unselfishness, all that.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
They do for us. There are some people in this
country who take extraordinary steps to provide for the freedom
and security.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We forget that those people exist.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We know them as the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines,
and Coast Guard. They call themselves soldiers, seals, rangers, airmen, sailors,
devil dogs, and so much more. We call them fathers, brothers,
sons and husbands, mothers, daughters, sisters and wives. We call
(00:49):
them friend and neighbor. These veterans answered the call. Now
we answer theirs, and.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
They are the best our country has to offer, and
we love them.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Today, we honor them and we serve them. David Malsby
is your host, and he welcomes you to this community
of veterans. As together we are building the road to hope.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And indeed we are glad to have you along. On
a Sunday afternoon, you're in Houston, Texas, wherever you are
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(01:44):
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(02:09):
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all right, got a couple of combat I don't know
what are you. Guys look like rebel rousers to me.
(03:38):
I'm not sure what we got in here today.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I got a couple of guys with us.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Want to reintroduce yourself to the world or our our
our resident Vietnam Vet that we love to compliment on
his constant great attitude and smile.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It's getting deep, yeah, real quick. We're just starting off early.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
My name is Philip Pickering and I served in Vietnam
in nineteen sixty eight, nineteen sixty nine. I'm the old
guy on campus and we have a lot of fun
with that because they kid me about serving with George
Washington and the Continental Army, And you know, I told
him I served with Custard because I was in the
first CALF and I was on sick call today.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That he made his final ride.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
So good choice, good day to call him sick worked
out well for you, Yes, sir, all right, Zachary, want
to introded yourself to the world.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yes, sir, Zachary Iron's US Army deployed Iraq from April
eight to July oh nine.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So we'll get into a little bit of your story.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
But I think something that I I guess probably we'll
always talk about this anytime Phillips on the show. One
of the things I love about what we do, particularly
at Campo but also in our s, but particularly at
Camp Hope, it's not just the post nine to eleven
(05:06):
global War on terrorism. Guys got a Vietnam VET sitting
next to you and getting to see that interaction between
guys who served in different parts of the world, different
time periods, different everything.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
When you were in Vietnam, you were not calling home
or skyping home at night.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
No, we were lucky if most of the time the
US Army was good about getting US mail. And unless
you knew somebody in communications sections that could, you know,
splice you through all the way to the States, you
did not get phone calls. We didn't have skype back then.
(05:51):
We were like, oh, if you could have told us
back then what they've got now, we'd have probably said
something very impolite.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, I don't know what your experience was, but I've
heard so many guys talk about, you know, then they
call home, talk to their wife, And I don't know
if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm
sure a little bit of mix.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah. I think when I was deployed, you know, I
was mostly doing instant messaging, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But still in communication.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, call and call home every once in a while.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, different eras. I mean, it's just so many things,
some of the most basic practical stuff like that, like
the ability to communicate, and it's just such a different
time period. And then there's been a lot of discussion
about the whole reintegration issue with the post nine to
eleven guys and talk about and I've heard a lot
(06:48):
of different stories about guys coming home from Vietnam. You
talk about getting on a plane with nobody you knew. Yeah, sure,
which is different from some who I heard, you know,
get on a boat and they're on a boat for
however long coming home?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
We basically, when I went over to Vietnam, we got
on an airplane with a couple of one hundred other
guys we knew. Every once in a while you might
stumble on somebody that you knew. That basically, I knew
absolutely nobody on that airplane, And when we got to Vietnam,
(07:21):
everybody went their different directions. And then the same thing
coming home. You got on an airplane with a bunch
of guys that were ready to come home. I knew
absolutely none of them.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, completely different from so many of the stories of
Iraq and Afghanistan deployments. All right, we're going to take
a quick break here for just a moment, and when
we come back, we'll dive into Zachary's story a little bit.
Eight seven seven seven one seven seventy eight seventy three.
That's our Combat Trauma Crisis Line. Eight seven seven seven
one seven, seventy eight, seventy three.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
But right back.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Again.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Wherever you listen to podcasts, look for Road to Hope Radio.
Thank you for subscribing and sharing. Reminder you can follow
all things PTSD Foundation of America through our social media PTSDs.
Just think post Traumatic Stress Disorder PTSD USA PTSD USA.
That is on the Facebook, It's on the X machine,
(08:39):
and on YouTube, Instagram it's PTSD Foundation of America. But
PTSD USA is our website, Facebook, X and YouTube. Great
way to follow along, see what's going on the day
to day around Camp Hope and throughout our outreach programs
across the country. A lot of things coming over the
coming year, a lot of things that we have planned
(09:01):
hoping to get done to expand our outreach and ability
to serve those in our community. And appreciate you sharing
and following along and if you like more information, whether
it's on Camp Hope or are support groups that we
run for our combat veterans, support group for family and friends.
(09:22):
All of it is free. All of it is available
through the website PTSDUSA dot org.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
We are Let's see now we are so let's see.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Sixteen years into our mission, almost seventeen years into the
mission of the peer to peer faith based Christ centered
peer to peer program. So we're almost sixteen years into that,
and we are well, we are sixteen years at almost seventeen.
We are thirteen plus years now going on at Camp Hope,
(10:00):
which is the interim housing facility that hosts our program.
We call Camp Hope a very extensive program designed to
be six to nine months in leak in length. We
bring veterans in from all across the country, again, veterans
from every era of war.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So if you would like.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Information on any of those things, again, everything we do
at zero cost to the veteran or to the family.
Everything we do is free. All that information available with
the website PTSDUSA dot org. All right, Zachary, So to
cater that's a little north of Dallas, Yes, sir fort Worth, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
All right? So what was your claim to fame in
high school? Who are you?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I was? I wasn't kind of a nerdy kid, you know,
more to myself back then, you know, I clearly remember
when you know, the towers were struck and that's what
brought on the urge or whatever to you know, decide
(11:07):
to stand up, you know, and join the fight.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Where were you?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I was going to a Christian school in Burluston, Texas.
I was in seventh grade when it happened. So and
ever since then, I had the loved to, you know,
go in, go into the military.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
In your family serve before you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
My parents know, they did not. My grandfather was in,
he only did a few years. And then my uncle
he's done three combat deployments to Afghanistan, and some other
(11:57):
family members. Okay, so when you when did you go
see a recruiter? I started seeing a recruiter in my
senior year of high school. I was I went through
the delayed entry program. Did you talk to your parents
about I did? I did? They were like, hey, if
(12:19):
that's what you want to do, you know, we'll sign
off on it.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Okay, So you were in seventh grade when the towers fell.
Twelfth grade when you're talking to uh so two thousand
and six.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Ish, two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I graduated from high school in two thousand and six.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Okay, all right, so your parents were supportive, correct, why'd
you decide on the army?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I initially wanted to fly, but you know, just won
the Air Force. But my recruiter. I decided to go
army is back up. But you know, I'm still kind
of young at that time, so feasible mind, you know,
can mold so and that's what he did. He convinced
(13:07):
me to go army.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Okay, so what was your job?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I was Air Defense Artillery Patriot missile Systems.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So I'm nerdy, yeah, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
I mean, uh, yeah, I'm sure it's like everybody else.
You got your job, and then there's what you do.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah right, definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, you may have a job. Here's what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah. Spent more time as a janitor than like cleaning
up the motor pool and cleaning the equipment than we
did working on the equipment.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, all right, So join the army, sir? How long
was it for you deployed?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Got to my first duty station January of seven and
then that following year.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Okay, so you're still relatively young at that point twenty one.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I was nineteen when I deployed.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Oh man, my math must be off, yes, sir, okay,
nineteen years old?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Very cool? Uh And where'd you go again?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Iraq?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Al right? Whereabouts?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Uh? Camp Buca southern Iraq, probably jumping a home V
drive thirty minutes south and hit Kuwait border. So we
were pretty much away from the all the action, you know,
but did detainee operations working in a prison.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
We've had a few guys come through that had some
sort of role and responsibility in the detainee operations. Some
of them held they were medics for the very high,
very high value targets that we had in captivity over there. Yeah,
(14:58):
a lot of moral I don't know your whole story,
but I know, for instance, just talking about the detainees thing,
there was a lot of moral injury that came out
of all that for our guys. And you know, one
medic in particular talks about his job was basically keep
people alive until the Iraqi people ended up killing them
(15:20):
after the trials, and that was just for them. It
was a bit of a moral dilemma. It took them
a little while to work through after coming home. What
was it when you first started noticing issues PTS that
eventually was diagnosed with PTSD. What was going on for you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I'd have to say, you know, definitely depression and isolation.
At the time, I had a my primary, you know,
instead of transferring me over to medical, he just gave
me some medication. And it just while you were still
(15:59):
in our No, this was after after Okay, so how long?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
After a while? Like several years.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I did. I did go to the VA, but I
just I didn't see anything really wrong. I mean, I
was just working too much after I got out of
the military.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
What'd you do? What kind of work you do?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I actually worked for a company completely based out of Florida,
but they were I don't know if they still are now,
but contractors for direct TV.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Okay, so you mentioned he gave you medicines. Was that
private doctor or was that at the VA or VA
VA doctors? Okay, all right, so the typical here's a diagnosis,
and here's the pills I want you to take.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, gotcha? All right?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Do they do anything else? Did they offer any kind
of counseling or anything? Support groups? Really just counseling. Counseling
wasn't that great.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It was just more like, Hey, how's the medication? And
I'm like, I don't know, honestly, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
The typical four or five questions, Yeah, how are you sleeping?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
You know, all the typical things.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And then they start changing your medication or changing the
amount of medication.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I didn't I didn't really see that. I saw like
they would keep me on the medication and then say
all right, i'll see you in a in a month
and kick me out the.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Door, right yeah, which is yeah, which is I'm confirmed.
I'm convinced that's why we've lost so many guys. You
start putting on these chemical brain altering medications and we'll
see in a month, and we're we can somehow expect
that to go well. I just I don't get it anyway.
Remember eight seven seven seven one seven seventy eight seventy
(17:53):
three are combat Trauma Crisis Line. A combat veteran will
answer the phone twenty four to seven eight seven seven
seven seven seventy eight seventy three were right back, Philip,
(18:21):
did you want to fly to As a matter of fact,
that's why I joined the Army.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
I was thinking it was yes. I joined under the
Warrant Officer for Flight Candidate program and it takes like
three months to get security clearances. You go through a
very extensive physical you know that kind of thing. And
(18:46):
I was accepted and they shipped me to basic training
at Fort Poke commonly called Fort Puke, but yeah, we'll
be polite for basic training. And some of the drill
sergeants we had had already come back from Vietnam and
they were like, well, ye know, the chopper pilot's over there,
(19:07):
this and that. And I found out what the average
life expectancy was for a chopper pilot in the first calve,
and I was like, well, you know something, I'm young
and stupid, but I'm not that stupid, So I changed
my mos.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
They were.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
I mean, from all I know is from documentaries and movies, right,
so I don't know, but just you know what you
see and hear like they were pretty soft targets.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
They were the and i'll throw out a plug here
for the first in the ninth Cave unit were losing
an average of one helicopter a day for a very
long stretch from about sixty five, five, six, seven eight
(20:01):
right into there. They were losing an average of one
chopper a day. And usually when you lose a chopper,
I'm sorry, but the crew very seldom gets out of it. Yeah,
so I was like, okay, I think I'll do something different.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
In the army, stay on the ground. Yeah. So they
trained me as a truck driver.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
They shipped me to Vietnam, and I drove a truck
one time and the rest of the time it was like,
whatever the army wants you to do is what you do.
And I did everything but drive a truck. And I
was like, I was a happy camper back to You
have a job, but this is what you're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah, whatever works, whatever works, Yeah, get the job done.
All right, So you're back for a while before you
try to get any kind of help, right, correct, go
to the VA. There's some pills, see a doctor once
a month. Basically us know how your sleep patterns are,
(21:02):
how your anger. I'm sure it was part of the conversation.
And uh from there what.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Happened, Uh kept the same thing, you know, dealing with
the same uh doctors and everything. By then I had
gotten married, and I just that's when it even got worse.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
They changed up medication, put me on two meds, and
I mean I was just even worse, like suicidal every day,
depressed every day. So and it ended.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Up so you get decided how far into this you go. Okay,
but when I hear guys say I'm suicidal, I was
kind of what do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
What? What was your mindset? What were you thinking? What?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
What do you think brought you to that place where
you were contemplating that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I just felt like I was, you know, like I
was a failure, Like I wasn't you know, I'm trying
to think like committing or helping society, you know, like
putting in work back into society, you know, trying to
(22:28):
better myself or anything, and I just I just felt
like nothing was getting done. It eventually got to the
point where my mother intervened and took me to a
different hospital, you know, civilian and got me connected with them,
(22:52):
and the doctor turned around and put me on medication
that I'm on today been taken for years now.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Or was it that prompted her to kind of step in?
What was she seeing?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
She wasn't really around, so she wasn't like seeing it
every day, you know, but she has heard She was
hearing it from my wife at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So okay, Philip, I see you nod in your head
over there.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
I understand you reach a point where it's like, what's
the point You've struggled, you know, to try to make
life and sometimes it just reaches the point where you're like, well,
I'm I've tried, I'm feel like a failure, you know
(23:52):
that kind of thing. And what kept me from actually
even attempting suicide was the fact that, well.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Who's going to find me? What am I leaving behind?
Speaker 5 (24:05):
And like I said, I'd been listening to Michael Berry
on the radio about Camp Hope and everything, and the
wife was like, well, you need some help. I'm like, no,
I'm fine. The magic word for the majority of the veterans.
I'm fine, frustrated, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. And when she
(24:27):
finally stepped in, kind of like what happened to you
when the wife stepped in and said you need help?
It was about two weeks later I was at Camp Hope.
You just reach a point that says I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So clearly, if you're thinking through the aftermath, it was
on your mind, oh yeah about doing this. Yeah, it's
just one of the things that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It grieves me, and then I just have to Okay,
I can't sit around and grieve, try to turn it
into fuel. But it's just that, you know, for you
more than fifty years fifty two, that's just that's hard.
For me to fathom that you deal with something and
(25:28):
I'm sure you know, not every day for fifty two years,
but there was there was a struggle going on to
some degree during that whole time.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Oh yeah, for you.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Let's see eight seven, eight, eight or nine, so fifteen
fifteen years before you got to Camp Hope, and I
just think about those years in between, and it's all
the there's the trauma of war, I mean, good grievy,
gravy a kid when you go to Vietnam and then
(25:59):
you're running around on out there and that nonsense. Then
the nonsense when you came home and how our country
was not treating our veterans, and all the trauma and
all those years afterwards. Because I know it has to
be difficult when you when you get to that point
(26:20):
where you, like you mentioned you were, who's going to
find me? Who's going to clean up the mess? Whatever
your thought patterns were that were leading you to the
suicidal uh ideal idea idealization, if I can say that word,
all that struggle when you feel that and yes, your
(26:41):
your wife, your mom, whoever, you know, you really do
need to get some help. In the standard answer, I'm fine,
but after that conversation is over and you go back
into your closet whatever you're hiding secret places, there's got
(27:01):
to be guilt, maybe shame depress you. I think we've
used the word depression over here. That's certainly turning downward.
That's not turning upward, right, So it's getting worse, it's
not getting better. So your wife finally steps in, your
(27:23):
mom steps in with you to a private doctor. And
you said that was a few years ago. Yes, okay,
So did something else happened that brought you to Camp.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Hope or uh? Well, I mean I started to again
isolated again, and then uh I started getting angry, Like
I was getting angry at little things, and I was
(27:51):
trying to control situations, you know. Uh So then my
mother has a non pro off it that uh still does,
and she met up with a couple of other veterans
that I think they're starting their own, and she was like, hey,
(28:11):
do y'all know anything that would help us or help him,
you know, with his anger and everything. And that's when
they brought up Camp Hope. And so we sat down
looked over the website, you know, and I was like,
you know what, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Okay, So we're going to take one more break and
when we come back, we'll kind of pick up there
a little bit. But I know sometimes that's that can
be the most difficult call you ever make, because no
one wants to admit they need help. Ever, right, nobody
ever wants to I don't need help. And once you
see it's a lengthy program. It's not quick, it's not easy.
(28:52):
It's not a patch on the back and or a
pablem and we all feel better.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Uh, it's hard work and it's lengthy work.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
So I know that phone call can be really, really
the bravest thing maybe you ever do. We're gonna take
a quick break for the ride back with more of
Road Hope Radio. All Right, we've got Philip in the
(29:25):
studio with US Vietnam VET and a staff member at
Camp Hope, Zachary IRAQ VET. Both guys serve the United
States Army. Both guys struggle after coming home PTSD. All
that comes along with that, Philip, you were mentioned, Philip,
(29:47):
Zachary're mentioning some guys tell you about Camp Hope. Go
straight to the website PTSD USA dot org. You start
looking at it and seeing it and you decided to
make the decision this is what I need to do.
What was it that you were seeing or hearing and
talking to whoever that made just say this is this
(30:11):
is what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Uh, I I don't know, Like I just you know,
I figured, you know, open up and just give it
a shot, you know, uh, come down and trust the process.
So we came down and did a little sight visit,
(30:35):
you know, see what the place is about, because you know, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Sometimes yes, right exactly like pictures can full yes they can't.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
But yeah, no, I definitely did it, you know, came down,
looked around, showed around. So I was like, you know what,
screw it, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
So you're roughly three months in, which means you've come
a little ways, but you got a little ways to go.
Uh what's.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Are you noticing any different anything, seeing any difference in
mindset when you wake up in the morning, your attitude
during the day, your sleep patterns. Are you seeing anything
that's different?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I am. I'm sleeping a lot better now.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Oh, Philip Man, you missed it last week. The guy
we had on like before he came to camp.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Hope. This is his story.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
It's not my story because when he said us to
wait a minute, it's like I was getting like two
two and a half hours sleep at night and he's
been at Camp Hope for however long, six seven weeks,
I don't remember what it was, and he's like sleeping
eight and nine hours and.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I want some of that. Yeah, where do you get that?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
My goodness? Supposed to sleep is improving?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes, definitely, sleep patterns improving. Not trying to control situations anymore,
definitely more like vibrant, cheerful.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
So that's one of the things people will ask. So
how do you kind of gauge how guys are doing
in the program? And for me it's a little different.
For the guys that were mentoring, there's they're in it
every day. I kind of see guys here and there.
For me, it's when I start to see a smile
(32:39):
come on somebody's face. And sometimes it's a couple of
months before you start to see any semblance of a
smile or laughter or I can breathe them again. It's
it's a first sign for me when I watch the
guys just and you know, especially the guys that have
(33:04):
been heavy into self medication, seeing some life come back
into their face and you know they're eating again and
all those kinds of things. But the smile is kind
of when I know, Okay, they're starting to figure something out,
they're starting to open their mind up to what they're
trying to be taught in the program. So we talked
(33:25):
about the struggle of you know, picking up the phone
and making that call. I would assume, having gone it
alone for fifty two years, that must have been a
really really heavy phone call.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It was.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
I got married in nineteen seventy one. Pretty soon after
I got out, I turned twenty and twenty one in Vietnam.
I managed to just really total out of marriage after
seventeen years. And then Janet and I got married, coming
(34:12):
up thirty seven years. Yes about that, Yes, congratulations, she's
managed to put up with me.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
She gets an extra crown in Heaven for sure.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Yeah, she's more than earned her spot.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Pretty much. I did self isolation.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I drove a tractor trailer rig across country and you
didn't have to deal with that many people. You dealt
with dispatchers, you dealt with chippers and receivers, and that
was pretty much yet. And so I did a great
job of semi isolating and it was pretty easy just
(34:55):
to keep it stuffed. Well, when COVID hit and I
lost my last job, it was like, all of a sudden,
I'm having to live with myself and that's when the
domino started to fall.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Yeah, it's always interesting to me just how things work out.
And I'm you know, full disclosure if anybody knows anything
about me, h pasture by trade. I don't believe in
coincidence and I'm believing luck. I don't believe just circumstance.
I think there's a there's a god who created all
this and uh, just to watch like you mentioned. Okay,
(35:32):
so I'm going to drive a truck, so I have
mitigated greatly the number of people I have to interact with.
And now what do you do all day every day?
Don't drive a truck anymore. No, I just now you're interacting.
That's that's what you're that's what you do.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
I I came to the program, and it took a
while for me to accept the fact that hey, here's
this old guy me with all these young guys. And
it took them a while to convince me that it
was okay to be the old guy. Of the group,
and the more I went through the program and other
(36:17):
staff members were watching and kind of keeping an eye
on things, it was like, I had so many people
say you need to come to work here, and I
was like, well, after a while, it was like, you know,
maybe I've got something to offer them and camp hope
(36:37):
in their infinite wisdom of decision making. And I'll leave
it at thatt that they finally said okay, and I
went to become a mentor, and I understand there's things
that these guys went through that I didn't. They understand
there's things that you know, I went through they didn't.
(37:01):
But somewhere along the lines, I've had the majority of
them say, you know, we're glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Ellie.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
A minute ago you said they they finally convinced you
to be the old guy and be okay with that
and talk about what was going on. When you say
they were doing you talk about other guys in the program,
other guys in the program and a few other staff members. Sure,
but that's the beauty. That's just the peer to peer.
(37:31):
Oh yeah, that's just that's one of the main reasons
why it works.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
Yes, if it weren't for the period of peer I
don't think this program would really work that well, because
first of all, you have to accept the fact that.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Hey, I've got a problem. I am not unique.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Everybody at Camp Hope has a problem and they're wanting
to deal with it or the majority of the mare.
And as soon as you start sharing your story, like, hey,
I went through some of the same stuff I wasn't
with this unit, but you know, you and I and
I over the years are run into guys that I
actually was on the same firebase with. Wow, and it's like,
(38:16):
you know, we never knew sure, So Yeah, to be
able to talk to somebody that has been through at
least something similar helps to kind of open the floodgates. Yeah,
and say, yeah, I've got a problem and the fastest
hour of my week is already done.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Thank you, Philip, You're welcome. Thank you, Zachary, thank you.
Keep doing the work. Yes, sir, keep doing what you're doing.
There's some good days in front of you, but you're
gonna have to fight for him.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Good thing has got some fellows to your left and
to right fighting along with you.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Well, thanks for what you do. Thank you for joining
us each and every week. For Road Hope Radio. Wherever
you listen to podcasts, get that subscribe button. Road to
Hope Radio look forward to being with you again next
week for more of Road to Hope Radio
Multiple people in my family clean my father are veterans.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Troops that have been to war and now they're.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Back and think and be grateful for their service.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Sacrifice, love for their country, just unselfishness, all that.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
They do for us. There are some people in this
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Speaker 3 (00:59):
They are the best our country has to offer, and
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Speaker 1 (01:05):
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all right, got a couple of combat I don't know
what are you. Guys look like rebel rousers to me.
(03:38):
I'm not sure what we got in here today.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
I got a couple of guys with us.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Want to reintroduce yourself to the world or our our
our resident Vietnam Vet that we love to compliment on
his constant great attitude and smile.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It's getting deep, yeah, real quick. We're just starting off early.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
My name is Philip Pickering and I served in Vietnam
in nineteen sixty eight, nineteen sixty nine. I'm the old
guy on campus and we have a lot of fun
with that because they kid me about serving with George
Washington and the Continental Army, And you know, I told
him I served with Custard because I was in the
first CALF and I was on sick call today.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That he made his final ride.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
So good choice, good day to call him sick worked
out well for you, Yes, sir, all right, Zachary, want
to introded yourself to the world.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yes, sir, Zachary Iron's US Army deployed Iraq from April
eight to July oh nine.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So we'll get into a little bit of your story.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
But I think something that I I guess probably we'll
always talk about this anytime Phillips on the show. One
of the things I love about what we do, particularly
at Campo but also in our s, but particularly at
Camp Hope, it's not just the post nine to eleven
(05:06):
global War on terrorism. Guys got a Vietnam VET sitting
next to you and getting to see that interaction between
guys who served in different parts of the world, different
time periods, different everything.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
When you were in Vietnam, you were not calling home
or skyping home at night.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
No, we were lucky if most of the time the
US Army was good about getting US mail. And unless
you knew somebody in communications sections that could, you know,
splice you through all the way to the States, you
did not get phone calls. We didn't have skype back then.
(05:51):
We were like, oh, if you could have told us
back then what they've got now, we'd have probably said
something very impolite.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, I don't know what your experience was, but I've
heard so many guys talk about, you know, then they
call home, talk to their wife, And I don't know
if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm
sure a little bit of mix.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah. I think when I was deployed, you know, I
was mostly doing instant messaging, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But still in communication.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, call and call home every once in a while.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Yeah, different eras. I mean, it's just so many things,
some of the most basic practical stuff like that, like
the ability to communicate, and it's just such a different
time period. And then there's been a lot of discussion
about the whole reintegration issue with the post nine to
eleven guys and talk about and I've heard a lot
(06:48):
of different stories about guys coming home from Vietnam. You
talk about getting on a plane with nobody you knew. Yeah, sure,
which is different from some who I heard, you know,
get on a boat and they're on a boat for
however long coming home?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
We basically, when I went over to Vietnam, we got
on an airplane with a couple of one hundred other
guys we knew. Every once in a while you might
stumble on somebody that you knew. That basically, I knew
absolutely nobody on that airplane, And when we got to Vietnam,
(07:21):
everybody went their different directions. And then the same thing
coming home. You got on an airplane with a bunch
of guys that were ready to come home. I knew
absolutely none of them.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, completely different from so many of the stories of
Iraq and Afghanistan deployments. All right, we're going to take
a quick break here for just a moment, and when
we come back, we'll dive into Zachary's story a little bit.
Eight seven seven seven one seven seventy eight seventy three.
That's our Combat Trauma Crisis Line. Eight seven seven seven
one seven, seventy eight, seventy three.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
But right back.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Again.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Wherever you listen to podcasts, look for Road to Hope Radio.
Thank you for subscribing and sharing. Reminder you can follow
all things PTSD Foundation of America through our social media PTSDs.
Just think post Traumatic Stress Disorder PTSD USA PTSD USA.
That is on the Facebook, It's on the X machine,
(08:39):
and on YouTube, Instagram it's PTSD Foundation of America. But
PTSD USA is our website, Facebook, X and YouTube. Great
way to follow along, see what's going on the day
to day around Camp Hope and throughout our outreach programs
across the country. A lot of things coming over the
coming year, a lot of things that we have planned
(09:01):
hoping to get done to expand our outreach and ability
to serve those in our community. And appreciate you sharing
and following along and if you like more information, whether
it's on Camp Hope or are support groups that we
run for our combat veterans, support group for family and friends.
(09:22):
All of it is free. All of it is available
through the website PTSDUSA dot org.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
We are Let's see now we are so let's see.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Sixteen years into our mission, almost seventeen years into the
mission of the peer to peer faith based Christ centered
peer to peer program. So we're almost sixteen years into that,
and we are well, we are sixteen years at almost seventeen.
We are thirteen plus years now going on at Camp Hope,
(10:00):
which is the interim housing facility that hosts our program.
We call Camp Hope a very extensive program designed to
be six to nine months in leak in length. We
bring veterans in from all across the country, again, veterans
from every era of war.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
So if you would like.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Information on any of those things, again, everything we do
at zero cost to the veteran or to the family.
Everything we do is free. All that information available with
the website PTSDUSA dot org. All right, Zachary, So to
cater that's a little north of Dallas, Yes, sir fort Worth, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
All right? So what was your claim to fame in
high school? Who are you?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I was? I wasn't kind of a nerdy kid, you know,
more to myself back then, you know, I clearly remember
when you know, the towers were struck and that's what
brought on the urge or whatever to you know, decide
(11:07):
to stand up, you know, and join the fight.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Where were you?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I was going to a Christian school in Burluston, Texas.
I was in seventh grade when it happened. So and
ever since then, I had the loved to, you know,
go in, go into the military.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
In your family serve before you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
My parents know, they did not. My grandfather was in,
he only did a few years. And then my uncle
he's done three combat deployments to Afghanistan, and some other
(11:57):
family members. Okay, so when you when did you go
see a recruiter? I started seeing a recruiter in my
senior year of high school. I was I went through
the delayed entry program. Did you talk to your parents
about I did? I did? They were like, hey, if
(12:19):
that's what you want to do, you know, we'll sign
off on it.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Okay, So you were in seventh grade when the towers fell.
Twelfth grade when you're talking to uh so two thousand
and six.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Ish, two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I graduated from high school in two thousand and six.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Okay, all right, so your parents were supportive, correct, why'd
you decide on the army?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I initially wanted to fly, but you know, just won
the Air Force. But my recruiter. I decided to go
army is back up. But you know, I'm still kind
of young at that time, so feasible mind, you know,
can mold so and that's what he did. He convinced
(13:07):
me to go army.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Okay, so what was your job?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I was Air Defense Artillery Patriot missile Systems.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So I'm nerdy, yeah, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
I mean, uh, yeah, I'm sure it's like everybody else.
You got your job, and then there's what you do.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah right, definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, you may have a job. Here's what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah. Spent more time as a janitor than like cleaning
up the motor pool and cleaning the equipment than we
did working on the equipment.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah, all right, So join the army, sir? How long
was it for you deployed?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Got to my first duty station January of seven and
then that following year.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Okay, so you're still relatively young at that point twenty one.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I was nineteen when I deployed.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Oh man, my math must be off, yes, sir, okay,
nineteen years old?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Very cool? Uh And where'd you go again?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Iraq?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Al right? Whereabouts?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Uh? Camp Buca southern Iraq, probably jumping a home V
drive thirty minutes south and hit Kuwait border. So we
were pretty much away from the all the action, you know,
but did detainee operations working in a prison.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
We've had a few guys come through that had some
sort of role and responsibility in the detainee operations. Some
of them held they were medics for the very high,
very high value targets that we had in captivity over there. Yeah,
(14:58):
a lot of moral I don't know your whole story,
but I know, for instance, just talking about the detainees thing,
there was a lot of moral injury that came out
of all that for our guys. And you know, one
medic in particular talks about his job was basically keep
people alive until the Iraqi people ended up killing them
(15:20):
after the trials, and that was just for them. It
was a bit of a moral dilemma. It took them
a little while to work through after coming home. What
was it when you first started noticing issues PTS that
eventually was diagnosed with PTSD. What was going on for you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I'd have to say, you know, definitely depression and isolation.
At the time, I had a my primary, you know,
instead of transferring me over to medical, he just gave
me some medication. And it just while you were still
(15:59):
in our No, this was after after Okay, so how long?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
After a while? Like several years.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I did. I did go to the VA, but I
just I didn't see anything really wrong. I mean, I
was just working too much after I got out of
the military.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
What'd you do? What kind of work you do?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I actually worked for a company completely based out of Florida,
but they were I don't know if they still are now,
but contractors for direct TV.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Okay, so you mentioned he gave you medicines. Was that
private doctor or was that at the VA or VA
VA doctors? Okay, all right, so the typical here's a diagnosis,
and here's the pills I want you to take.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, gotcha? All right?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Do they do anything else? Did they offer any kind
of counseling or anything? Support groups? Really just counseling. Counseling
wasn't that great.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It was just more like, Hey, how's the medication? And
I'm like, I don't know, honestly, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
The typical four or five questions, Yeah, how are you sleeping?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
You know, all the typical things.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And then they start changing your medication or changing the
amount of medication.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I didn't I didn't really see that. I saw like
they would keep me on the medication and then say
all right, i'll see you in a in a month
and kick me out the.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Door, right yeah, which is yeah, which is I'm confirmed.
I'm convinced that's why we've lost so many guys. You
start putting on these chemical brain altering medications and we'll
see in a month, and we're we can somehow expect
that to go well. I just I don't get it anyway.
Remember eight seven seven seven one seven seventy eight seventy
(17:53):
three are combat Trauma Crisis Line. A combat veteran will
answer the phone twenty four to seven eight seven seven
seven seven seventy eight seventy three were right back, Philip,
(18:21):
did you want to fly to As a matter of fact,
that's why I joined the Army.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
I was thinking it was yes. I joined under the
Warrant Officer for Flight Candidate program and it takes like
three months to get security clearances. You go through a
very extensive physical you know that kind of thing. And
(18:46):
I was accepted and they shipped me to basic training
at Fort Poke commonly called Fort Puke, but yeah, we'll
be polite for basic training. And some of the drill
sergeants we had had already come back from Vietnam and
they were like, well, ye know, the chopper pilot's over there,
(19:07):
this and that. And I found out what the average
life expectancy was for a chopper pilot in the first calve,
and I was like, well, you know something, I'm young
and stupid, but I'm not that stupid, So I changed
my mos.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
They were.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
I mean, from all I know is from documentaries and movies, right,
so I don't know, but just you know what you
see and hear like they were pretty soft targets.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
They were the and i'll throw out a plug here
for the first in the ninth Cave unit were losing
an average of one helicopter a day for a very
long stretch from about sixty five, five, six, seven eight
(20:01):
right into there. They were losing an average of one
chopper a day. And usually when you lose a chopper,
I'm sorry, but the crew very seldom gets out of it. Yeah,
so I was like, okay, I think I'll do something different.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
In the army, stay on the ground. Yeah. So they
trained me as a truck driver.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
They shipped me to Vietnam, and I drove a truck
one time and the rest of the time it was like,
whatever the army wants you to do is what you do.
And I did everything but drive a truck. And I
was like, I was a happy camper back to You
have a job, but this is what you're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah, whatever works, whatever works, Yeah, get the job done.
All right, So you're back for a while before you
try to get any kind of help, right, correct, go
to the VA. There's some pills, see a doctor once
a month. Basically us know how your sleep patterns are,
(21:02):
how your anger. I'm sure it was part of the conversation.
And uh from there what.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Happened, Uh kept the same thing, you know, dealing with
the same uh doctors and everything. By then I had
gotten married, and I just that's when it even got worse.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
They changed up medication, put me on two meds, and
I mean I was just even worse, like suicidal every day,
depressed every day. So and it ended.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Up so you get decided how far into this you go. Okay,
but when I hear guys say I'm suicidal, I was
kind of what do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (21:55):
What? What was your mindset? What were you thinking? What?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
What do you think brought you to that place where
you were contemplating that.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I just felt like I was, you know, like I
was a failure, Like I wasn't you know, I'm trying
to think like committing or helping society, you know, like
putting in work back into society, you know, trying to
(22:28):
better myself or anything, and I just I just felt
like nothing was getting done. It eventually got to the
point where my mother intervened and took me to a
different hospital, you know, civilian and got me connected with them,
(22:52):
and the doctor turned around and put me on medication
that I'm on today been taken for years now.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Or was it that prompted her to kind of step in?
What was she seeing?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
She wasn't really around, so she wasn't like seeing it
every day, you know, but she has heard She was
hearing it from my wife at the time.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So okay, Philip, I see you nod in your head
over there.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
I understand you reach a point where it's like, what's
the point You've struggled, you know, to try to make
life and sometimes it just reaches the point where you're like, well,
I'm I've tried, I'm feel like a failure, you know
(23:52):
that kind of thing. And what kept me from actually
even attempting suicide was the fact that, well.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Who's going to find me? What am I leaving behind?
Speaker 5 (24:05):
And like I said, I'd been listening to Michael Berry
on the radio about Camp Hope and everything, and the
wife was like, well, you need some help. I'm like, no,
I'm fine. The magic word for the majority of the veterans.
I'm fine, frustrated, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. And when she
(24:27):
finally stepped in, kind of like what happened to you
when the wife stepped in and said you need help?
It was about two weeks later I was at Camp Hope.
You just reach a point that says I'm tired.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So clearly, if you're thinking through the aftermath, it was
on your mind, oh yeah about doing this. Yeah, it's
just one of the things that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It grieves me, and then I just have to Okay,
I can't sit around and grieve, try to turn it
into fuel. But it's just that, you know, for you
more than fifty years fifty two, that's just that's hard.
For me to fathom that you deal with something and
(25:28):
I'm sure you know, not every day for fifty two years,
but there was there was a struggle going on to
some degree during that whole time.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Oh yeah, for you.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Let's see eight seven, eight, eight or nine, so fifteen
fifteen years before you got to Camp Hope, and I
just think about those years in between, and it's all
the there's the trauma of war, I mean, good grievy,
gravy a kid when you go to Vietnam and then
(25:59):
you're running around on out there and that nonsense. Then
the nonsense when you came home and how our country
was not treating our veterans, and all the trauma and
all those years afterwards. Because I know it has to
be difficult when you when you get to that point
(26:20):
where you, like you mentioned you were, who's going to
find me? Who's going to clean up the mess? Whatever
your thought patterns were that were leading you to the
suicidal uh ideal idea idealization, if I can say that word,
all that struggle when you feel that and yes, your
(26:41):
your wife, your mom, whoever, you know, you really do
need to get some help. In the standard answer, I'm fine,
but after that conversation is over and you go back
into your closet whatever you're hiding secret places, there's got
(27:01):
to be guilt, maybe shame depress you. I think we've
used the word depression over here. That's certainly turning downward.
That's not turning upward, right, So it's getting worse, it's
not getting better. So your wife finally steps in, your
(27:23):
mom steps in with you to a private doctor. And
you said that was a few years ago. Yes, okay,
So did something else happened that brought you to Camp.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Hope or uh? Well, I mean I started to again
isolated again, and then uh I started getting angry, Like
I was getting angry at little things, and I was
(27:51):
trying to control situations, you know. Uh So then my
mother has a non pro off it that uh still does,
and she met up with a couple of other veterans
that I think they're starting their own, and she was like, hey,
(28:11):
do y'all know anything that would help us or help him,
you know, with his anger and everything. And that's when
they brought up Camp Hope. And so we sat down
looked over the website, you know, and I was like,
you know what, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Okay, So we're going to take one more break and
when we come back, we'll kind of pick up there
a little bit. But I know sometimes that's that can
be the most difficult call you ever make, because no
one wants to admit they need help. Ever, right, nobody
ever wants to I don't need help. And once you
see it's a lengthy program. It's not quick, it's not easy.
(28:52):
It's not a patch on the back and or a
pablem and we all feel better.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Uh, it's hard work and it's lengthy work.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
So I know that phone call can be really, really
the bravest thing maybe you ever do. We're gonna take
a quick break for the ride back with more of
Road Hope Radio. All Right, we've got Philip in the
(29:25):
studio with US Vietnam VET and a staff member at
Camp Hope, Zachary IRAQ VET. Both guys serve the United
States Army. Both guys struggle after coming home PTSD. All
that comes along with that, Philip, you were mentioned, Philip,
(29:47):
Zachary're mentioning some guys tell you about Camp Hope. Go
straight to the website PTSD USA dot org. You start
looking at it and seeing it and you decided to
make the decision this is what I need to do.
What was it that you were seeing or hearing and
talking to whoever that made just say this is this
(30:11):
is what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Uh, I I don't know, Like I just you know,
I figured, you know, open up and just give it
a shot, you know, uh, come down and trust the process.
So we came down and did a little sight visit,
(30:35):
you know, see what the place is about, because you know, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Sometimes yes, right exactly like pictures can full yes they can't.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
But yeah, no, I definitely did it, you know, came down,
looked around, showed around. So I was like, you know what,
screw it, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
So you're roughly three months in, which means you've come
a little ways, but you got a little ways to go.
Uh what's.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Are you noticing any different anything, seeing any difference in
mindset when you wake up in the morning, your attitude
during the day, your sleep patterns. Are you seeing anything
that's different?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I am. I'm sleeping a lot better now.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Oh, Philip Man, you missed it last week. The guy
we had on like before he came to camp.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Hope. This is his story.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
It's not my story because when he said us to
wait a minute, it's like I was getting like two
two and a half hours sleep at night and he's
been at Camp Hope for however long, six seven weeks,
I don't remember what it was, and he's like sleeping
eight and nine hours and.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I want some of that. Yeah, where do you get that?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
My goodness? Supposed to sleep is improving?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes, definitely, sleep patterns improving. Not trying to control situations anymore,
definitely more like vibrant, cheerful.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
So that's one of the things people will ask. So
how do you kind of gauge how guys are doing
in the program? And for me it's a little different.
For the guys that were mentoring, there's they're in it
every day. I kind of see guys here and there.
For me, it's when I start to see a smile
(32:39):
come on somebody's face. And sometimes it's a couple of
months before you start to see any semblance of a
smile or laughter or I can breathe them again. It's
it's a first sign for me when I watch the
guys just and you know, especially the guys that have
(33:04):
been heavy into self medication, seeing some life come back
into their face and you know they're eating again and
all those kinds of things. But the smile is kind
of when I know, Okay, they're starting to figure something out,
they're starting to open their mind up to what they're
trying to be taught in the program. So we talked
(33:25):
about the struggle of you know, picking up the phone
and making that call. I would assume, having gone it
alone for fifty two years, that must have been a
really really heavy phone call.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It was.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
I got married in nineteen seventy one. Pretty soon after
I got out, I turned twenty and twenty one in Vietnam.
I managed to just really total out of marriage after
seventeen years. And then Janet and I got married, coming
(34:12):
up thirty seven years. Yes about that, Yes, congratulations, she's
managed to put up with me.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
She gets an extra crown in Heaven for sure.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Yeah, she's more than earned her spot.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Pretty much. I did self isolation.
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I drove a tractor trailer rig across country and you
didn't have to deal with that many people. You dealt
with dispatchers, you dealt with chippers and receivers, and that
was pretty much yet. And so I did a great
job of semi isolating and it was pretty easy just
(34:55):
to keep it stuffed. Well, when COVID hit and I
lost my last job, it was like, all of a sudden,
I'm having to live with myself and that's when the
domino started to fall.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Yeah, it's always interesting to me just how things work out.
And I'm you know, full disclosure if anybody knows anything
about me, h pasture by trade. I don't believe in
coincidence and I'm believing luck. I don't believe just circumstance.
I think there's a there's a god who created all
this and uh, just to watch like you mentioned. Okay,
(35:32):
so I'm going to drive a truck, so I have
mitigated greatly the number of people I have to interact with.
And now what do you do all day every day?
Don't drive a truck anymore. No, I just now you're interacting.
That's that's what you're that's what you do.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
I I came to the program, and it took a
while for me to accept the fact that hey, here's
this old guy me with all these young guys. And
it took them a while to convince me that it
was okay to be the old guy. Of the group,
and the more I went through the program and other
(36:17):
staff members were watching and kind of keeping an eye
on things, it was like, I had so many people
say you need to come to work here, and I
was like, well, after a while, it was like, you know,
maybe I've got something to offer them and camp hope
(36:37):
in their infinite wisdom of decision making. And I'll leave
it at thatt that they finally said okay, and I
went to become a mentor, and I understand there's things
that these guys went through that I didn't. They understand
there's things that you know, I went through they didn't.
(37:01):
But somewhere along the lines, I've had the majority of
them say, you know, we're glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Ellie.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
A minute ago you said they they finally convinced you
to be the old guy and be okay with that
and talk about what was going on. When you say
they were doing you talk about other guys in the program,
other guys in the program and a few other staff members. Sure,
but that's the beauty. That's just the peer to peer.
(37:31):
Oh yeah, that's just that's one of the main reasons
why it works.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
Yes, if it weren't for the period of peer I
don't think this program would really work that well, because
first of all, you have to accept the fact that.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Hey, I've got a problem. I am not unique.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Everybody at Camp Hope has a problem and they're wanting
to deal with it or the majority of the mare.
And as soon as you start sharing your story, like, hey,
I went through some of the same stuff I wasn't
with this unit, but you know, you and I and
I over the years are run into guys that I
actually was on the same firebase with. Wow, and it's like,
(38:16):
you know, we never knew sure, So Yeah, to be
able to talk to somebody that has been through at
least something similar helps to kind of open the floodgates. Yeah,
and say, yeah, I've got a problem and the fastest
hour of my week is already done.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Thank you, Philip, You're welcome. Thank you, Zachary, thank you.
Keep doing the work. Yes, sir, keep doing what you're doing.
There's some good days in front of you, but you're
gonna have to fight for him.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Good thing has got some fellows to your left and
to right fighting along with you.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Well, thanks for what you do. Thank you for joining
us each and every week. For Road Hope Radio. Wherever
you listen to podcasts, get that subscribe button. Road to
Hope Radio look forward to being with you again next
week for more of Road to Hope Radio
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