Hour 2: The Railroad of Death

The Burma-Siam Railway and the brutal conditions of Japanese POW work camps. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is a Jesse Kelly show. It is the Jesse
Kelly Show. Another hour of the Jesse Kelly Show on
a Tuesday. And I'm warning you now we're done with
politics for a for a bit. I don't know how
long it's gonna take me. This is not gonna be
a multi part series. So however long it takes me,

(00:32):
it might be a half hour. I doubt that might
be an hour, hopefully, maybe more. We're gonna go talk
about a very important part of history that may apply
to you and your family, something people don't know about,
a lot of people don't know about. We will get
back to politics when that's done, and we'll make fun
of dirty communists in Hollywood and this idiot woman police

(00:55):
chief in Cincinnati, and get to other emails. But we
get emails all the time on this show, and funny
one's great, one's bad ones, insulting ones, it doesn't matter, right,
But we have had a lot. We have had a
lot of ones that touch us in one way or another,

(01:16):
and this is one of those ones. In fact, Chris,
if you don't mind, I should have told you this beforehand.
Email this guy and let him know we did it.
When we're done with it. I have the email right here.
I'm gonna give it to you. Okay, So we got
this email a while back, and well I'll read it
for you. This was in August. Dear Jesse, I would

(01:39):
like to respectfully request that you consider doing a history
segment on the bridge over the River Quai. My grandfather
served in the British Army as part of the artillery
and was later captured by the Japanese. He spent over
three years as a prisoner of war, repeatedly forced to

(02:00):
rebuild the bridge after Allied bombings. The stories he shared
were both horrific and tragic, yet they also reflected extraordinary
resilience and courage in the face of unimaginable hardship. Sadly,
about ten years ago, he took his own life following

(02:21):
the sudden loss of his son, my father, as the
combined weight of grief and his wartime memories became too
much to bear. I know your focus is primarily on
American history, but if you could share even a brief
mention of this chapter in history, it would mean a
great deal to me in my family and says I

(02:45):
can say his name, I don't want to read his
whole name. But his name is Brandon. So Brandon, if
you are listening now, we are about to tell this tale.
It doesn't just apply to Britain. This is a British story,
an Australian story, a Dutch story, an American story, an
Asian story. But this is a very very ugly part

(03:08):
of history that a lot of people don't know. How
ugly is this part of history. I watched an interview
as I was just doing some research and cobbling together
some things so I could tell you this little tale.

(03:28):
I watched an interview with a very very very old man,
had to be pushing a hundred, so old, you know,
you could tell he was just hunched over or just
very old, very old. And he said the worst nightmare
he ever had about this time period was ten days ago.

(03:55):
I don't know when it was filmed, but it wasn't
that long ago. Ten days ago, he's got to be
pushing one hundred, wakes up drenched in sweat, night terror.
How traumatic does something have to be for you to
go through it when you're twenty and wake up with

(04:18):
a horrible nightmare eighty years later? How horrible? How traumatic
does something have to be so let's talk about that something.
This is the story of the railway of death, the
Death railway, the Burma Siam railway. And this is a

(04:39):
World War two tale about resilience, Japanese captivity, barbarism. It's
a tough tale, all right. Now, let's clarify a couple
of things right off the bat Burma where is that that?
Does thing exists anymore? Siam? Where is that? It doesn't

(05:01):
exist anymore? The modern day country of Thailand that was
known as Siam back in the day. All right, Siam.
So when I say Siam, we're talking Thailand. In fact,
just for ease of knowing this, of remembering this, I'm
probably just gonna refer to what as Thailand, so I
don't confuse people. What is Burma, Myanmar, Myanmar depending on

(05:25):
how you pronounce it. It's a country right next to Thailand. Now,
I want to give you in case you're driving not
looking at a map. You're welcome to look at a map.
It'll help you as always, But if you're driving, don't
worry about it. I want to give you an idea
of where these places are on the planet, because it's
going to matter a lot for our story. In fact,
we have to do a lot of background here. You

(05:48):
know where Vietnam is, you can at least identify roughly. Oh,
that's Southeast Asia. Okay. So you have in this big peninsula.
There's a big peninsula where Vietnam is on the total
east side of it. There is Cambodia in this place.
There is Laos in this place. There's Thailand in this place.

(06:10):
There's me and Maar in this place. This is where
it's all taking place. Now, what is happening? Okay. The
Japanese Empire, the Japanese Empire leading up to WW two,
We've talked about it many times. I'm not going to
go into all of the background. They were now a
modern country. They had modernized. They were extremely militaristic, a

(06:35):
country that really prioritized and valued its military history, all
that Samurai Bushido code stuff. Really cool history, to be
honest with you. But they became a country run by
its military. That's a dangerous place to be. Dudes, love
the idea of that, at least briefly. This is a

(06:55):
very guy centric thing. The country run by the military
kind of sounds cool because we respect the military. Oh sweet,
it'll be tough, it'll be disciplined. They'll have shiny boots.
But you really don't ever want your country run by
the military because people generally ever heard the saying, if

(07:16):
the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks
like a nail. You ever heard that saying. It's a
great saying. It's very true. Whatever you've got in your
tool belt, whatever your thing is, you are going to
look at everything as an opportunity to use your thing
to solve it. If you're a great talker, you're extremely charismatic.

(07:38):
No matter what the situation is in business, maybe you're
trying to chat up a dime at the local park,
trying to take her out on a date, You're going
to use your charm, your words to try to win
her over. If you're in a bar and things start
to get hairy, you probably crack a joke by somebody
a beer. It's what you have in your tool belt.

(07:59):
You become a country run by the military, everything is
going to simply have a military solution. Hey, where Japan.
We have a pretty tough population, pretty tough military. What
we don't have is stuff. We don't have resources. We

(08:20):
need some You know who has a lot Mainland Asia, China, Thailand,
mean Mar, India. They're going to play a big role
in this, or at least the reason behind it. They
have all kinds of stuff. And it's weird when you
study any point in history, it's funny to me, at least,

(08:44):
I've always found it funny how often things come back
to the same place. You know, this is one of
these things that's ancient. This area is just rich in stuff,
spices and rubber and oil and all the things people love,
things people need for various reasons. There's always going to

(09:05):
be a war. There always going to be a conflict there.
Japan starts to expand, they invade China. You already know
most of this. They invade China, they start working their
way through Asia. That's Vietnam, that's Thailand, that's Mianmar heading
to India. They're taking Singapore. They want the stuff. Now,

(09:28):
that works for a while. The problem with Japan, the
problem Japan was going to run into, and they knew
they were going to run into it is supplying troops
with the things they need. The old saying we've repeated
a thousand times on the show. It's a saying from
a marine. Amateurs study tactics professionals study logistics is so true.

(09:56):
It doesn't matter how great your army is. You can
have the shiniest, most brand new rifles even today, drones
and tanks and planes and everything's good. You could have
the best trained troop. They're all Navy seals. You know
what it means if they can't eat and don't have
any bullets, nothing, it means nothing. They're gonna starve to death.

(10:18):
The planes will never get off the ground. It means nothing.
You must supply your troops. That is a difficult thing.
When we're talking about islands, the Pacific Ocean, the Navy
comes into play. Japan needed a solution. We'll talk about
that in a moment. Before we talk about that solution,
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(10:44):
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(11:28):
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We'll be back. The Jesse Kelly Show, I Like It
returns next. It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a

(11:49):
Fantastic Tuesday. Remember you can email us Jesse at Jesse
Kellyshow dot com. If you missed any part of the show,
you can download at Iheartspotify iTunes. And we are doing
history right now on It's the Railway of Death, the
Burma Siam railway. And I need to clarify something before
I continue. Jewish producer Chris asked me during the break

(12:11):
the bridge over the river, quhy was that something that
was real? Was just the name of a movie? Okay,
so the movie, it's a very famous movie. The movie
came from a book. The book was a work of
fiction that had all kinds of reality in it, all right,
So they the author of the book took real stories

(12:35):
of the men who live through this cobbled together a
airfingers quote fictional novel, and then they made a fictional
movie over it. But there was a ridger river quhy
and there was a bridge over it. I'm just telling
you now the real tale of what happened and what gosh,

(12:58):
so many thousands of people died during Right now, back
to what we were discussing, Japan needs the resources. Japan
invades China. Japan starts storming through Asia and taking things away,
not just from America. Remember they took the Philippines from us.
They're taking things away from the British and this is

(13:21):
happening at a speed the Allied countries were simply not
prepared for. We had a military presence in the Philippines.
It was not enough. The Japanese simply stormed in faster,
more fierce than we were ready for. They took the Philippines.
They took a lot of prisoners. We'll come back to that.

(13:41):
The same thing is happening in these other Asian places,
many of them are controlled by the British Empire, namely Singapore. Well,
Singapore is a big one. Remember Britain at this point
in time controls India as well. Now, Singapore was thought
to be the jewel of the British Empire, and it

(14:03):
was thought to be untakable, it's fortified. Surely that turned
out to be a complete joke. I have read many
things from Brits who were there, British soldiers who were there,
and to a man, they talk about how lame their
training was, how lame their equipment was. It just sounds

(14:23):
to me listening to these guys they were a very
complacent British Empire, not at all ready for an aggressive,
well trained, fierce Japanese force. Now, before we go any
further in this, I need to talk about the Japanese
force itself and their mentality. You already are aware, cause

(14:45):
we've talked about it many times. They saw themselves as
samurai warriors. That is how they saw themselves. Their officers
carried samurai swords, They had contests on how many heads
you could chop off of living prisoners with your samurai sword.

(15:05):
They saw themselves as samurai. So that was part of
their culture, military culture. Now let's discuss their military training itself.
I have read and watched testimony from Japanese soldiers at
this time. They were part of the Japanese military, and
they talked about wanting to kill themselves during their boot camp.

(15:31):
That's how brutal. It was. Brutal in a variety of ways.
One of the ways you read about this consistently over
and over and over again. With the Japanese military at
this time, they loved to hit, hitting, slapping, punching, kicking.

(15:55):
It's just what they did. And I know that that's
something that occurred in militaries around the planet, occasionally here,
occasionally there. This is a daily occurrence at this point
in time in the Japanese military. If you have people
above you, they will slap you. They will hit you.

(16:18):
It's not just screaming at you and go do some pushups.
They'll kick you. They will hurt you physically. And it's
not limited by higher ups. If you are above anyone
else in ranks, in rank in the military, you will slap, kick,
and punch the people underneath you. It was it was

(16:40):
considered to be an important part of their military training.
You get slapped, you get kicked, you get punched, and
you in turn will slap, kick, and punch the people
underneath you. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I
am trying to drive home the point. Physically physically abuse,
using people you have power over was part of their culture.

(17:06):
It was woven into every part of their culture. They
believed in hitting, kicking, slapping, punching. It is what they did.
In fact, it's part of what sparked such a vicious
gorilla movement in the Philippines. The Japanese took the Philippines
from US, and there was all kinds of amazing Filipino resistance.
The Filipinos have something deep against getting slapped. No one

(17:30):
mics get slapped, but for them, it was like a
mortal offense, and the Japanese were always slapping them. The
second you slapped somebody, well now he's going to join
the resistance and he's gonna shoot you next chance he gets.
That's kind of how it was. So that is part
of it. There's another part of it, the idea of surrendering,

(17:51):
of becoming a prisoner, and talk about that in a moment.
Before we talk about that. As we're talking about Asia,
let's talk about bamboo. You ever heard of bamboo sheets?
You know why Cozy Earth is getting so big and
so famous so fast. It's all this bamboo that they use.

(18:14):
The sheets, they're like silky soft, but They're all so stretchy,
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they're wonderful for it. I sleep hot. I can sleep
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(18:37):
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That's cozyearth dot com code Jesse. And if you get
a post purchase survey, let them know you heard about

(18:58):
Cozy Earth from Jesse Kelly. Because home isn't just where
you live, it's how you feel. Let's go home with
Cozy Earth. Back to the story next Truth Attitude, Jesse Kelly.
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a Fantastic Tuesday,

(19:20):
stepping away from politics for a few to do a
little history on the death railway. Back to what we
were discussing. This is post w W two that were
discussed in the conduct of the Japanese military right now,
and I was talking about their training, how they hit
each other, slap each other, kick each other all the time.
This is what they believe in. There's another part of it,

(19:41):
though they believed it was part of their culture. Drill
a couple big parts of it. First, they believed that
a true warrior is never taken prisoner. Ever, mothers instructed
their sons to kill themselves before for being taken prisoner. Now,

(20:02):
how culturally ingrained was this, because remember we talk about
it all the time. Nothing is more powerful than culture
in a society. It's way more powerful than laws. What
was the culture? So much of Japan is rural. Like
most places, rural is the majority, right, small little villages.

(20:23):
That's so much of Japan. Let's say ab and I
were Japanese in nineteen forty, and let's say our oldest son, James,
goes off to war for the Japanese military and he
gets captured alive. He is captured alive by the Allies.

(20:44):
You would think that would be a relief for aub
and I to find out he is alive. Well, praise God,
he was not killed. Praise God, he's alive. Let's hope
he returns to us one day safely. Nope, In fact,
we would be in physical danger in the village where

(21:06):
we live. This is a small village where everyone requires,
everyone leans on each other. You're buying this and that.
I could very well tonight in my Japanese village, leaving
my work, I could very well be jumped by the
men in the village and beaten to death or severely
maimed because my son disgraced the family by being captured alive.

(21:30):
That happened to people in Japan. That was the culture.
That's how against being captured alive was. Now that Now
combine that with the slapping, the kicking, the punching with
the final thing here, and that's the feelings of racial superiority.

(21:53):
I know that your dirtball history professor taught you that
white people are the only ones who've ever been racist
in history. They're the only ones who've ever oppressed anyone
else on the color of their skin. But sadly, your
history professor was a dirtball America hating communist who doesn't
know anything about history at all. All peoples in history,

(22:18):
from time to time have felt their racially superior to
other peoples. This happens all the time. I know, I
know well the Nazis the Japanese were just as racist
as the Nazis. They not only felt they were superior
to all other Asian people, they felt they were superior

(22:42):
to all white people. And by the way, the white
people at this point in time, felt that they were
far superior to the Japanese. Referred to them as gooks
and monkeys and all kinds. This was the world, this
was it's how all peoples are, how all peoples operated.
The Japanese felt that people below them, the Chinese especially,

(23:03):
were rats, dogs. They referred to them as these things.
And like I said, they really felt they were racially
superior to the Caucasian mainly Caucasian powers. They were fighting Britain, Australia, America,
the Dutch, these people. All right, now that's the background
on the culture. They start storming through Asia, like I said, Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, India.

(23:32):
The Japanese are beating us up and they're taking away things.
They're taking Singapore, they're taking these things. At the same
time this is happening, something bad is happening to Japan.
Their naval superiority they had at the very beginning of
the war is starting to go away. The allies, not

(23:55):
just US, but a lot of it is us the
Allies are building up, the navies building up their expertise,
and the Japanese Navy, which was good but limited because
they couldn't replace the ships. The Japanese Navy was starting
to get pounded at sea. They were losing ground. Well,

(24:16):
I already said, look at the map Japan's and island.
You have all these troops in Thailand. You have these
troops in India. How are you getting them bombs and bullets?
How are you getting them medicine? Clothes, food? I don't
care how Samurai they are. They have to eat, they
have to have something to shoot, they have to have

(24:38):
you see what I mean, You have to supply them. Well,
this is where they borrowed something an idea from the British.
The British had had an idea that they rightly dismissed,
which the credit to them for dismissing it. But they
had had an idea before. And the idea was, what

(25:00):
if we build a railroad? What if we build a railroad?
It's essentially three hundred miles or four hundred kilometers. I
don't know what exactly the conversion. I know they kept
saying four hundred kilometers. I didn't look it up. I'm
an American, I don't deal in kilometers. But it was
a four hundred kilometer railroad running essentially from Thailand, connecting

(25:22):
Thailand and Myanmar. A railroad, a railroad that cuts directly
through some of the thickest, most hostile jungle on planet Earth.
Every disease, every poisonous snake, lions and tigers and bears,

(25:44):
oh my spiders, the size of your hand inhospitable doesn't
describe this portion. In fact, to this day, much of
what we're discussing here is still not inhabited. There are
villages here, in villages there, but even with the modern
technology we have today, even with modern modern medicine that

(26:08):
we have today, so much of this stuff is just
back to be in jungle. No one wants to live there.
I mean, like I said, there are villages, there are
people around, but not a lot. Britain looks at the
project and this is what they came up with. They said,
if we try to build this railroad, this is before
World War two, if we try to build this railroad,

(26:30):
it's going to take us five years. We think it's
going to take us five years. They did kind of
a cost benefit analysis thing and this is a very
They were a very modern, very sharp empire back in
the day, and they said, the juice is not worth
the squeeze. Too many people are going to die here.
We can't. It's just it's not drop it, just drop

(26:51):
the whole thing. So they dropped it. Japan, facing trouble
on the high Seas, steps up and says, you know what,
I like this British plan. But here's the problem. This
is already nineteen forty two. The war is already just
beginning to break against Japan. Japan doesn't have five years.

(27:19):
They can't have a five year plan. It's not just
that they need this railroad built. They need this railroad
built now. They need it completed, and they need it
completed quickly. Now here's why it gets so ugly. Combine
everything I already told you about the brutality of the

(27:41):
Japanese military and their culture and all that, the racial
superiority stuff, all that. Combine that with the fact they're
sitting on tens of thousands, honestly over one hundred thousand
Allied prisoners of war. These people are in their possession.

(28:04):
Japan looks at them as lesser lower Already they think
they're scummy because they got captured. So Japan says, well,
if we got to do it, and we got to
do it fast, we've got an army of slaves we
can use. We'll continue in a moment. Jesse Kelly Becksian.

(28:30):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a wonderful, wonderful Tuesday.
You can email the show Jesse at Jesse kellyshow dot com.
In case you're wondering if I'm going to wrap up
this history story in ten minutes, The answer to that
question is most definitely no. She's stretching on a little bit.
I don't know how deep it'll go in the next hour.

(28:50):
We'll get back to politics at some point. But we're
telling the story of the Allied POW's building the Railway
of Death in WW two across some of the worst,
most inhospitable jungle on the planet. So that was the setup,
that was the why, that was the idea. Japan needs
a railroad. Japan needs a long railroad. They need it

(29:14):
built through the jungle where there is currently nothing. They
need it hacked through the jungle, and they don't have
five years. They need it fast because their troops are
going to start starving to death, very very quickly. Now
let me explain, Let me explain what how you may
have found yourself if you were a brit if you

(29:37):
were in Ausy, if you were an American, if you
were the Dutch. This is how you may have found
yourself working in hell. Let's say let's say you were
in the navy, maybe the British Navy, maybe the American Navy.
Same story applies to both. I've heard plenty boom torpedo

(30:01):
slams into your the side of your ship at night.
Things are on fire, things are smoky. You are below
deck and the ship is in such bad shape. The
ship has lost power. You can't see, you are choking
on the smoke. You have to find a way to

(30:24):
get up on top of the ship so you can
get out, because the ship is now disabled and the
Japanese Navy they're shelling it so they can send it
to the bottom of the ocean. You manage, by the
grace of God, to get clear to the top of
the ship. You get out, You jump into the water.

(30:47):
You start to swim, lord willing. You find something that floats,
maybe a life jacket. You remember you are alone, You
are at night. It's at night. You're alone in the ocean.
God knows how many of your friends are now dead,
and you're watching the flashes as the Japanese military is
sending your ship to the bottom of the ocean. But wait,

(31:10):
I bet you thought it couldn't get worse. Oh, it
most definitely can. After the noise of the ship shelling
dies down, you begin to hear screams, the screams of men,
followed by gunfire. What's going on? The Japanese are now
in smaller boats cruising around where the ship went down,

(31:33):
machine gunning the survivors in the water to ensure there
aren't any And you hear a Japanese boat approaching you.
By the way, this is some guy's true story. Otto Schwartz,
I think is his name. The Japanese boat begins to
approach you. You think you're about to die. You lay

(31:53):
your head to the side and play dead as they
pull up beside you, chattering in Japanese, pooing you with
the stick to see if you're worth the bullets it
will take to machine gun you. By the grace of God,
Well maybe they decide not to. They decide you're already dead,
and they motor off to machine gun more of your friends.

(32:16):
You start swimming. You are exhausted, you are frightened, you're thirsty,
you're hungry, and you eventually find your way onto the shore.
But you see, the Japanese are taking all these territories.
Because you've swam to the shore doesn't mean you're out
of the woods. You have jumped right out of the

(32:36):
frying pan and right into the fire. The Japanese are
already on the beach with some of your friends. They
decided not to machine gun, and they immediately hold you
at gunpoint and start beating on you for fun. Then
then they decide, well, we have a railroad to build.

(32:56):
We've got another slave here, let's get him to where
we need him to go. Where are they going to
send you? First? They're going to send you to something
known to history now as a hell ship? A hell ship?
What was a hell ship? Japan did not use their
finest ships, as you can imagine. They took the oldest,

(33:19):
old oldious, the oldest, rustiest, crappiest ships they could find
that had big steel holds in them, and they would
take allied prisoners and drop them down into the bottom.
Keep in mind it's one hundred and ten degrees outside.
When they dropped you into the bottom half, the men
have dysentery. There's hardly any water they lower down, and

(33:43):
there are no bathroom facilities to speak of. There's not
enough room to sit down. The stories you will read,
if you ever choose to do so, about the hell ships,
it boggles the mind. Men would regularly lose their minds.
Your mind would just simply shatter. This happened all the time.

(34:06):
Occasionally they'll open up the hatch and act like they're
going to allow you up, and occasionally they would allow
one or two up. Sometimes it was just a tease, though,
or sometimes they would They would find pleasure and throwing
garbage down on you, peeing on you down below. It's
awful on your hell ship. You eventually get to your

(34:29):
next spot, You get out, You breathe free air. You
think to yourself, I'm finally home free. Granted, you're sick
as a dog, dehydrated beyond belief and drained. Your drained,
and so were your friends. But the Japanese are not
going to waste fuel or anything like that. Getting you
where you need to go. Not quite yet, start marching.

(34:52):
You're sick, you're dehydrated. You and your friends, yes this
is If this sounds like the Baton death March, that
wasn't the only time this happen. You and everyone you know.
You're being marched to a prison camp. It's not five
miles away, it's one hundred miles away, and it's one
hundred and five degrees outside. When your friends fall to

(35:15):
the wayside and can't get up, the Japanese will bayonet them,
shoot them, cut their heads off. The Japanese. If they're
driving by in trucks and you happen to stumble in
front of the truck, they'll simply drive over you and laugh.
They'll walk by you and slap you in the face
as hard as they can. Maybe they'll hit you in

(35:36):
the back with your butt stock. They're one of their
favorite things to do. Was They cut off three to
four foot bamboo sticks and hit you every chance they could.
You are struggling to survive. Eventually you find your way
to a prison camp, but it's big, and it's just
there to get you ready to go to the next place.

(35:59):
You see. They're trying to get you into the jungle.
We'll continue there in just a moment, now let's talk
about something great. Abasing are dogs. It says so much
about us as a country that we love our dogs
the way we do because they're just such sweet, loyal creatures,

(36:20):
aren't they. They just are make your day better. So
they deserve rough greens. Your dog deserves to have, not
just a longer life, a healthier life. You know, our
dogs they get lethargic, start scratching all the time, digestive
systems a mess. This is because they don't have any nutrition.

(36:44):
They get dog food that has nothing in it. It's
empty calories. It's like you eating fast food every meal.
You'd have health problems. Start sprinkling rough greens on your
dog's food, packed with all the nutrients your dog needs.
It's the number one dog supplement in America for a reason.
Rofgreens dot com promo code Jesse gets you a free

(37:09):
Jumpstart trial bag, or you can call two one four
Roughdog promo code Jesse. I'll try to finish this next
t