December 10, 2025 • 37 mins
The rebellion before the war
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is a Jesse Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show. Another hour of the
Jesse Kelly Show on a magnificent Wednesday. So you know
what's about to come up this hour. I'll get to
that here in a few I should let you know
in hour three there's some hopeful signs on the horizon
about all this advancement in technology AI. I'll tell you
(00:38):
about something hopeful something terrible about the GOP. We'll again
talk at least briefly about influencer campaigns. It looks like
we've got some impeachments coming down the pike. Emails, all that,
so much more coming up in the third hour of
The Jesse Kelly Show. But it's our two and as promised,
(00:59):
we are now going to pick up where we left
off last night and continue our history, a history not
many people know about the Rhodesian Bush War. If you
missed a lot of the background, and so much of
it was background, It was tribal stuff. And if you
miss that, I don't have time to recap it for you.
(01:20):
Now we must move on in the story. iHeart Spotify iTunes.
You can go download the podcast. It's all free. There's
no charge for any of this. Our two of last night,
we gave a lot of the background, your thirty second
to one minute background.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Is this.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
A man named Cecil Rhodes grabbed a bunch of miners,
other people, yes, women and children, walked into a tribal land,
a tribal land that had stuff he wanted. They started
to mine there. There were two historically there were more,
but two main rival tribes there who hated each other
(02:00):
and slaid each other, slaughtered each other, raped each other,
and burned each other alive for a very long time.
At some point they did it in front of the Europeans.
There was a big uprising. The Europeans were mortified by
such savagery, and they stepped up and they said, okay,
this place is kind of ours. Now this is done.
You all, you people, you tribes, you tribesmen, you go
(02:25):
over there. You other tribesmen, you go over there. Now.
This is what colonization looked like a lot of the time.
We're about to lay it out for the British Empire.
Remember when your history professor in college was whining and
crying about colonialism. That's actually kind of a ridiculous term
(02:47):
because there are so many different ways to quote colonize
a country. And let's be honest, right now. Colonization is
simply a more peaceful form of conquest. That's what it is.
So let's just call it all conquest, shall we. There
(03:08):
is a spectrum, isn't there? We could go with the old. Well,
the easiest one would be Genghis Khan form of conquest. Hey,
I really like your lands. I think I shall take
my gigantic army in there and i will slaughter every man,
woman and child. I'll even send a rearguard back to
(03:28):
your city to ensure I killed all the pets, and
then I'll move in. That is obviously an extreme end
of that spectrum, but that's how conquest has been done.
Then there are other types. The French. The French would
be more likely to kind of not really move in,
(03:49):
but trade with you, right, They'll provide security, they'll trade
with you. The Spanish. The Spanish were about as hands
off with so much of their conquest as you can be.
And I know about the Spanish conquest of Mexico and whatnot,
but the Spanish and all their colonization or conquests, they
really just kind of wanted the gold. Hey, just give
me some gold. You have any gold, I'll take some gold.
(04:11):
The British, in my opinion, did it smarter than anyone else,
because here's what the British always believed about conquering colonizing
any place. The British believed that you should move in.
They believe that possession was nine tenths of the law.
And you can't ever really grab control of a place
(04:32):
just by sending emissaries from Afar and picking up a
shipment of gold along the coast. No, you needed your
people physically building homes and schools and roads. You need
your people moving in and setting up shop. But wait,
there's more. I don't want to make it sound all
bad if you're against conquest. They also believed in integrating
(04:59):
the local population as you moved in. The Brits did
not want to slaughter everybody. They actually didn't want to
send everyone away as refugees. And we're talking about this
spot in Africa Africa here, but Britain did this in
many other places. They wanted to find a way where, Yes,
(05:20):
they took over. I'm not making them sound completely magnanimous here.
They wanted to take over, but they also wanted to Hey,
all these tribes and things like that. Look will help
you out too. How About how about some clothes, how
about a job? How about access to medicine, how about
how let's let's help let us help you too. You
(05:41):
are gonna work for us, like you're gonna work under us.
Let's be honest, but we're gonna help each other.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Here.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Your life will be better. And I don't want to
act as if they did this just out of the
kindness of their hearts. Of course there'd be some of that,
but really, for the Brits, and this is why I
think it was so brilliant, it just made more sense.
We want to take the place, we want to take
it over. Slaughtering everybody generally doesn't work. It's hard to do,
(06:10):
it's hard to maintain. As we've talked about before in
the show, you can't really kill your way out of
a problem. Usually that's difficult. But if you can somehow
make the people you're conquering make their day to day
lives better, then you have to deal with a lot
less rebellion, a lot fewer problems. They might even go
(06:31):
along with it, and in fact, Rhodesia eventually, we're not
quite there yet, Rhodesia kind of gets to that place
for a while. But right now we are post this
little tribal war. The English are mortified. The Europeans in
Zimbabwe are mortified, and they say, Okay, enough is enough.
Now it's ours. But what does it's ours mean? Well,
(06:54):
let's talk about what it was before the Europeans got there.
As you know, tribal lands. But what does that mean lands? Well,
a tribe, at least these tribes, the way they worked,
they would find some remote area, well it's all remote,
there's no civilization. They'd find an area that had things
they needed. And what does every tribe need? Every tribe
(07:16):
needs some way to eat. Maybe you're a hunting tribe,
maybe you do agriculture. Every tribe needs water. Let's find
a river, let's find something. Tribes are going to find
locations that work for them and that's where they're going
to build their village, their huts. That's how it's going
to work. And in many ways, the tribes were extremely isolated.
(07:40):
The villages were isolated from each other. These were people
who didn't build roads, they didn't have the wheel. You
as a young boy, I mentioned the two tribes yesterday.
I'll mention them again, the Shona and the Indobelly. And
by the way, the Indebelly go buy several names. I'm
just calling them into Belly, the Shona in the end
(08:02):
of Beelly. If you were a young boy, you were
born in this village, this indobelly village, there is a
reasonable chance you never left. Yeah, you would go out
and you would go hunt, or maybe you would go
to war or something like that. But you certainly didn't
bounce around the country. We modern day people, certainly modern
(08:22):
day Americans. Anyone, anyone living in a first world country
listening to me right now, you've been on a road trip,
How haven't you? Maybe you still live in your hometown,
but you know what a place one hundred miles from
you looks like, don't you? Of course you're almost probably
scoffing and laughing. Of course everyone does. Maybe you've even
(08:43):
been on a plane. That way of thinking is totally
foreign to these people who live in this area. What's
one of the very first things the Europeans start to do. Roads,
They start to build roads, they start to build train tracks.
Why well, they're moving goods and services and people to
(09:06):
and fro and now they're connecting villages that had previously
never been connected before. The African people in some time,
in some ways they're moving to and fro in ways
they've never moved before. And in some ways they're getting
(09:27):
run out of an area. If the English, if the
europe let's stop calling them English, because there were people
from all over the European world. If the Europeans wanted
that area, remember they decided they were in charge now
they said you need to leave. Well, they were also
integrating the local population, as I mentioned, they tried to
(09:50):
do that. They really believed in doing that. Let's find
a way to weave these people into our society. And
remember there weren't very many Europeans at the time, not
very many at all. They were way out numbered by
the tribesmen. So crime, for instance, you don't have this
(10:10):
large European police force. What do you do for cops?
Every area needs cops. Well, that can create problems if
you don't understand the area you're taking over. We'll get
to those problems in a moment. There's about to be
a rebellion, a first one. I should say before we
get to rebellion time, I want you to rebel against pain.
(10:33):
I want you to find. I want you to think
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(10:59):
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Speaker 1 (11:34):
More. Next Jesse Kelly Vaccian.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a fantastic, Fantastic Wednesday,
a hump Day, doing part two of our history of
the Rhodesian bush War. Remember you can email us your love,
your hate, your death threats. Jesse at Jesse Kellyshow dot Com.
The Europeans are starting to take over. They're starting to
build roads, they're starting to build trains, They're starting to
(12:03):
connect African villages that have never been connected before. They're
starting to run Africans out of certain places. Now, this
is where, this is why I keep bringing up the
two tribes, because these two tribes, the fact that there
are two tribes who hate each other, is always going
to come into play in this entire story, right up
(12:25):
to the horrible brutal ending of it. Not to give
the whole thing away. Remember before these guys even got here,
the Shona had been conquered by the end of Belly.
They were slaves under the end of Belly. Those kinds
of hard feelings don't go away easily. And the Europeans
(12:46):
just got there, they just arrived five minutes ago. It's
hard to understand everything about the culture you're conquering. It's
hard to understand old tribal rivalries and bad blood. It's
hard to understand the religious significance, different significance of different things,
(13:07):
for instance, And this is going to come into play
for virtually all these tribes. You know, what was really
a currency for them, almost a sacred level of currency,
a status symbol cattle. How many cattle do how many
cows do you have? You have a lot of cattle.
Oh you've only got three. Oh that sucks, Chris, I've
got five. Must suck to be so low class. I
(13:28):
mean you're laughing, But that's how that's how it worked.
If you were a king, part of that status would
be look at all of our cattle. Well, what are
cattle to the Europeans at this point in time? Just
what they're beef? It's beef or its milk. It's no
big deal. You raise them, you kill them, whatever. It's
just one of those things they didn't quite get. They
also needed a police force, and they're trying to integrate
(13:51):
the local tribes. But let me ask you something. Do
you ever have any bad blood in your family? Every
family hasn't, maybe even in your town a rival town arrival,
family arrival, this arrival that. I want you to imagine
this when it comes to Zimbabwe that we're talking about
(14:13):
right now. Let's say your people, your people had historically
kept the Shona as slaves and slavery. Remember was not
touchy feely, not at all ugly things for women children.
Let's just say, maybe your mother had been a slave
(14:37):
of the endobelly. You're now twenty five years old. Your
mother raised you with those stories of what the Indibelly
did to them. The Europeans knock on the door of
your hut and they're handing you a policeman's uniform because
(14:58):
now you you are going to help police some of
the indobelly areas and you have the power of law
enforcement behind your badge. You don't have some oath you
take or even believe in. You're a tribesman who's historically
been at war, and that tribe has historically abused your family,
(15:22):
and now you're about to get a weapon and two
or three of your cop buddies and you're about to
walk into their area. Do you think there would be
any temptation to abuse that kind of power. This happened often.
(15:42):
The Europeans were having and will always have such a
difficult time keeping the tribes separate from each other, understanding
the depth of hatred they have for each other. There
was African police au African on African police abuse all
(16:03):
over the place. Combine that with this. I already talked
about historically how these tribes work. They lived in their
little villages. Now they're being moved onto what are essentially reservations.
They're getting moved away from their historic homelands. They're not
thrilled about it. Now, let's add one more element to it.
(16:24):
And this is a long complicated affair. For the sake
of not having this be a ten episode thing, I'm
fast forwarding through some things. There gets to be a
plague with the cows. What do the Europeans do when
there's a cow plague? They do what any civilized society
would do, and they start to kill the cows. I
(16:47):
just got done explaining cows are sacred to these people,
a status symbol to these people. As a European, you
may have everyone's best interests at heart. When you send
a few guys onto somebody's land and shoot twenty of
his cows in the head, he is almost undoubtedly going
(17:09):
to interpret that act differently than you do. It's bad.
Rebellion breaks out. Rebellion breaks out. In fact, you should know,
I won't tell you the name of it, because it's
another detail. I'm already drowning you in details. But they
(17:31):
consider the Rhodesian Bush War to be the second version
of this rebellion. That's what they call it. This is
the first of these rebellions. The tribes rise up, they rebel.
They are not as technologically advanced they do, however, have
the numbers. It's slaughter, it's destruction. They're doing things like
(17:53):
one miner. He had worked with ten Africans on a
mind for a long time. He then found himself with
them crawling into the mind trying to beat him to
death one night. There are some stories I'll tell you
in a moment. Before we get to some of these stories,
let me get to this. Let me talk to you
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(18:18):
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keep your phone, keep your number, or get a new
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Speaker 1 (19:19):
Be back the Jesse Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a wonderful Wednesday,
talking about the land down under Africa tonight as we go.
Quit what, Chris, I'm not a geologist, all right, I
don't know everything. All right. Back to our history of
the Rhodesian Bush War. The Europeans had set up the trains,
they'd set up the villages. The tribes were hating each other.
(19:46):
The tribes were not liking this European rule, and they
broke out in rebellion. Now, this is nothing like the
rebellion that will happen during the Rhodesian Bush War. This
is completely disorganized. There aren't a the central leaders. And
remember the two tribes hate each other as much as
they hate the Europeans. So what does this rebellion look like?
(20:09):
It sounds horrifying, but it's essentially small areas where panic
gets inflamed, anger gets inflamed, and it's oftentimes led by
local religious leaders, local tribal religious leaders, you know, all
these weird tribal false religions. Local religious leaders would get
(20:33):
their local area to rise up against the white invaders,
the European invaders. I told you briefly about that story
of the miner. Well you know how most of that
story went. He walked out of his house to find
ten Africans who he had worked with on the mine,
not slaves or something like that, you know, working with
(20:53):
them every day lunch wages. That there were co workers
with war clubs. This animal manages to wrestle one of
the war clubs from him. They start beating him. He
starts swinging back and beating them. He makes his way
all the way into the mind shaft where he rolls
down into the mind shaft. And then he has more
(21:15):
miners in the mind shaft who he's worked with, who
he thinks will come to his aid, and they start
beating him too. He starts fighting them off. He's fighting
his way through the mines. These things happen. In another incident,
two guys are sitting there, there are women and children
hidden behind them, and the tribesmen have surrounded the mine
(21:40):
and they are essentially getting ready to kill everyone in it.
The two dudes make a break for it. What are
they making a break for. They're going for the telegraph
line so they can telegraph for help so the women
and children won't die. They book it, one of them,
actually both of them end up making it the entire
(22:00):
way to the telegraph hut. One holds the door closed
from the angry tribesmen behind him, while the other gets
on the telegraph machine and telegraphs the message out. Eventually,
the door is kicked down and both men die with
African spears sticking out from all over their bodies. This
(22:22):
is taking place all across Zimbabwe at this time, but
as I said, it is not unified. It is poorly led.
And eventually the Europeans raise for themselves, or that they
should say, they get back their army. It's a long
story I won't go into. Most of their fighting men
had gone to fight somewhere else and they'd been captured.
(22:44):
They get their fighting men, and their fighting men are
organized and they are well led, and they start to
put this rebellion down. They put it down to such effect.
The rebels are now starving. The rebels are hiding in
k and the Europeans are dynamiting rebels out of caves,
(23:05):
dynamiting the entrance, starving them. And there's an or horrible, horrible,
ugly affair. Cecil Rhodes, the guy who started all this,
he brings all the tribal leaders together finally after a
very vicious little war, and he negotiates a peace because
the tribes are starving. They're starving, they're done. Only now,
(23:31):
this is the problem with rebellion. When you lose one.
If you lose one, you are always going to end
up worse off than you were before. If you're going
to rebel, you better win. The whole history of the
world proves this to be the case. It's almost weird
(23:51):
when you look back and you wonder why so many
people rebelled. We're going to rebel against Babylon. Oh no,
we're all skinned alive. It just doesn't it doesn't work.
Now they have no more control. And now after the
negotiated peace, now Britain is no longer doing that. Well,
(24:12):
it's not really our thing, it's kind of a private
enterprise thing. Nope, Now this is the nineteen twenties. Now
Britain says no, no, no, no, no, it's our country now. Now.
They even gave it a name, South Rhodesia. By the way,
in case you're wondering, Yes, that name comes from the
(24:34):
name Cecil Roads. And no he didn't name it. In fact,
he didn't even like the name, which is weird. I've
always wanted a country named after me. That is not
what he preferred at all, but Rhodesia. Only at this
point in time it's named South Rhodesia. Let's fast forward
just a little bit. They are locking in their control
(24:55):
of the area. They're building whole cities now, they're trying
to modernize this country as possible in a long comes
World War two. This part is going to be important
for our story as we move along. I already told
you the kind of people last night, the kind of
Europeans who came here. These were not convicts who just
(25:16):
got out. These were not idiot's welfare recipients. In many ways,
it was the cream of the crop for Europeans and
their children. They were tough as nails as well, not
these effeminate, you know, pinky out people. Tough as nails
and they also had, because there were so few of
them and a country that was so big, with so
(25:37):
many bigger tribes, mandatory military service for all the males
if you were a male in Rhodesia, by the way,
and females females were the females didn't have man mandatory
military service. Let me clarify, but the females were tough.
The males were tough. We're not talking about sipping tea.
These were farmers and miners and people who worked hard.
(25:59):
And even the ones who were more wealthy, you hunted
all the time, the elements, sleeping out under the elements.
They were already a people familiar with the outdoors, familiar
with firearms. And then when you add in mandatory military service,
there may not have been many of them. At about
the height of Rhodesia's army's power, there was only about
(26:20):
twenty thousand. That's a tiny army. They were all tough
as nails, tough as freaking nails, because look, you grew
up in Africa shooting lions, that's what you did. They
were a tough people. World War two comes along and
Britain calls, hey, Rhodesia, we need some guys now I
(26:43):
need to pause here, and I'm going to have to
make this disclaimer many times as we continue to tell
this tale. It can be easy to think about this
story as white versus black. I'm sure you've done it
in your mind several times, because the Europeans were white
and the tribesmen were black. And in some ways that
(27:04):
may be accurate. But when I said they were trying
to integrate the Africans, they were trying to integrate the Africans.
That Rhodesian army I just mentioned, at the height of
its power, like half of it was black. They're elite troops,
like half of them were black. The Rhodesians didn't see
(27:24):
this as a white versus black thing at all. The
loser Kamis worldwide, it's very similar to the Commis we
have today. That's how they sold it worldwide. Look at
these Nazis oppressing the black people. That is not how
it was. They were working in many ways hand in hand.
(27:46):
That's exactly right, Chris. They used good old fashioned race
communism to sell this locally and internationally. When things kicked off,
the Rhodesian military was not just white Europeans. The Africans
were getting training, getting everything again, integrating them in Britain
fighting World War II needed men, They said, Rhodesia, can
(28:07):
you help Rhodesia full of a bunch of tough people,
said absolutely, tell us where you need us. So many
Rhodesian men, black and white, stepped up to fight. The
Brits got concerned that there would be no men to
go back to Rhodesia if they all died, so they
spread the units out all across the everywhere Britain was fighting.
(28:29):
They wouldn't let the Rhodesians go all to one area
because they'd worry about it. Hey send fifty here, sent
one hundred there, and they went and fought like lions
for Britain and World War two. Their service is incredible.
But something else, I mean, World War two was awful,
but the result of it was actually wonderful in some
(28:49):
ways for what is now Rhodesia. I'll explain in a moment.
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More on this next.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Jesse Kelly returns.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Next it is the Jesse Kelly Show on a magnificent Monday.
I swear if you're suffering, we'll be back to politics
in ten minutes. But we're doing part two of the
Rhodesian bush War.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We just finished the rebellion. The Europeans put down the rebellion.
Britton essentially decided, okay, that's enough of all this playing games.
Now it's a country. Now, it's our country. In fact,
we're slapping a name on it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's called South Rhodesia. And well, the way it works is,
of course, World War two breaks out. The Rhodesians, as
I mentioned, black and white military men went off and
fought valiantly for the Brits. That will end up mattering
later on. But something else happens, And this is the
(30:47):
ugly part of life, the ironic, I guess I should
should say part of life. In a lot of ways.
War can be good for economies. Certainly, if you are
a country that produces stuff, war can be very good
for you. Why are the Europeans in Rhodesia to begin with?
(31:09):
It's rich with resources, The land is wonderful for agriculture.
There are things to mine there. And guess which empire
needs stuff right about now? Well the Allies, well all
of them, but the Allies need it. The economy starts booming, booming,
(31:32):
there are huge checks coming into Rhodesia because the Allies
needs stuff. Well, this is Africa, we already mentioned. It's
a rough place. It's been a rough place, just has
not become a modern continent. Ever, what do you think
(31:53):
happens when the Rhodesian economy starts booming? The word goes out,
The word goes out to all the other countries around
there who may be struggling. There's always a famine, always
a war, always a plague, and more Africans start pouring
into Rhodesia looking for work, looking for an opportunity, and
(32:17):
they find them. But as usually happens, the war doesn't
last forever. And after the war is over, Let's say
let's say it's the year nineteen forty one in your Rhodesia,
just for the sake of argument, and your economy starts booming.
(32:37):
Everyone knows it, Everyone in Africa knows it. And so
let's just say you get a million, two million Africans
from other countries coming in to take advantage of the
opportunity to feed their families, clothed themselves, you know, all
those things. But then nineteen forty five rolls around in
bip war over. Well, there's still a market obviously, crops
(33:00):
and chrome and the other things they mind, but not
near the market it once was. Well, now all those
people have already come in, Now they've already brought jobs in.
Now there's not as much economic opportunity to go around,
yet the people are still there. This creates a situation
(33:24):
that from the outside looking in looks terrible. The situation
being this, you have these extremely wealthy, modern looking mostly white,
although there were plenty of black people. There are extremely modern,
wealthy looking towns that would have looked like any town
(33:44):
in America, any city in Europe popping up. Only on
the outskirts there are extremely run down, poor, all black
shanty towns that start popping up. The reason this is
so disastrous is post World War Two there was a
(34:07):
thing that was happening globally. It wasn't just to Britain.
After World War Two, countries that had empires overseas started
to give them up. Sometimes they fought hard for them.
You know that. This was the French in Vietnam. They
eventually lost that, but they fought hard trying to keep it.
(34:29):
Some countries just flat out walked away from it. But
no matter what, there is a macro movement happening on
planet Earth post World War two. And that movement was, hey,
you super powerful empires with a colony here and a
colony there. In Britain's in India, and the French are
(34:51):
in Vietnam, and everyone's in Africa. It said, hey, you
know what, no more, no more, It's time to walk
away from your overseas empire. And I'm going to put
this in quotes because I don't necessarily believe in this,
but the quote decolonization movement has begun. Now, well, how
(35:15):
do you think Rhodesia looks to the rest of the
world when everyone else is giving up their overseas territories
and now you look at this insanely wealthy, prosperous African country.
These other African countries, for the most part, they're sucking
it up. They're doing terribly well. Rhodesia. Certainly the Rhodesians
(35:39):
are the Europeans in Rhodesia. Rhodesia they're thriving. And the
African peoples in Rhodesia they're on reservations, just like our
Indian reservations. They're on reservations where the Europeans put them,
or they're in shanty towns. And there's another part of
it that just looked bad. And this is actually how
(36:01):
we're going to open our show tomorrow. So let me
ask a question. Who should get to vote in any society?
Who deserves a say in the government of any society.
I think you would probably agree with me that shouldn't
(36:26):
be everybody right, you don't want twelve year olds to vote.
Of course, if there's some serial killer getting ready to
be executed tomorrow, do you want his vote canceled out?
He's canceling out your vote for president tomorrow? No, okay?
So will at least agree on that it shouldn't be everybody, okay?
So that means there should be limits? What limits? How
(36:53):
do you form a nation, a good country, if that's
what you want to be, a good prospers country, a
country considered to be free, while also putting limits on
who has a say in the government. In Rhodesia, the
Africans did not have a say in the government. No
(37:18):
say none, And that's about to be a problem. We'll
have to continue that tomorrow. Before we do that, let's
do some more politics, shall we. Let's talk about some
AI impeachments, influence operations, emails more Next
This is a Jesse Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show. Another hour of the
Jesse Kelly Show on a magnificent Wednesday. So you know
what's about to come up this hour. I'll get to
that here in a few I should let you know
in hour three there's some hopeful signs on the horizon
about all this advancement in technology AI. I'll tell you
(00:38):
about something hopeful something terrible about the GOP. We'll again
talk at least briefly about influencer campaigns. It looks like
we've got some impeachments coming down the pike. Emails, all that,
so much more coming up in the third hour of
The Jesse Kelly Show. But it's our two and as promised,
(00:59):
we are now going to pick up where we left
off last night and continue our history, a history not
many people know about the Rhodesian Bush War. If you
missed a lot of the background, and so much of
it was background, It was tribal stuff. And if you
miss that, I don't have time to recap it for you.
(01:20):
Now we must move on in the story. iHeart Spotify iTunes.
You can go download the podcast. It's all free. There's
no charge for any of this. Our two of last night,
we gave a lot of the background, your thirty second
to one minute background.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Is this.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
A man named Cecil Rhodes grabbed a bunch of miners,
other people, yes, women and children, walked into a tribal land,
a tribal land that had stuff he wanted. They started
to mine there. There were two historically there were more,
but two main rival tribes there who hated each other
(02:00):
and slaid each other, slaughtered each other, raped each other,
and burned each other alive for a very long time.
At some point they did it in front of the Europeans.
There was a big uprising. The Europeans were mortified by
such savagery, and they stepped up and they said, okay,
this place is kind of ours. Now this is done.
You all, you people, you tribes, you tribesmen, you go
(02:25):
over there. You other tribesmen, you go over there. Now.
This is what colonization looked like a lot of the time.
We're about to lay it out for the British Empire.
Remember when your history professor in college was whining and
crying about colonialism. That's actually kind of a ridiculous term
(02:47):
because there are so many different ways to quote colonize
a country. And let's be honest, right now. Colonization is
simply a more peaceful form of conquest. That's what it is.
So let's just call it all conquest, shall we. There
(03:08):
is a spectrum, isn't there? We could go with the old. Well,
the easiest one would be Genghis Khan form of conquest. Hey,
I really like your lands. I think I shall take
my gigantic army in there and i will slaughter every man,
woman and child. I'll even send a rearguard back to
(03:28):
your city to ensure I killed all the pets, and
then I'll move in. That is obviously an extreme end
of that spectrum, but that's how conquest has been done.
Then there are other types. The French. The French would
be more likely to kind of not really move in,
(03:49):
but trade with you, right, They'll provide security, they'll trade
with you. The Spanish. The Spanish were about as hands
off with so much of their conquest as you can be.
And I know about the Spanish conquest of Mexico and whatnot,
but the Spanish and all their colonization or conquests, they
really just kind of wanted the gold. Hey, just give
me some gold. You have any gold, I'll take some gold.
(04:11):
The British, in my opinion, did it smarter than anyone else,
because here's what the British always believed about conquering colonizing
any place. The British believed that you should move in.
They believe that possession was nine tenths of the law.
And you can't ever really grab control of a place
(04:32):
just by sending emissaries from Afar and picking up a
shipment of gold along the coast. No, you needed your
people physically building homes and schools and roads. You need
your people moving in and setting up shop. But wait,
there's more. I don't want to make it sound all
bad if you're against conquest. They also believed in integrating
(04:59):
the local population as you moved in. The Brits did
not want to slaughter everybody. They actually didn't want to
send everyone away as refugees. And we're talking about this
spot in Africa Africa here, but Britain did this in
many other places. They wanted to find a way where, Yes,
(05:20):
they took over. I'm not making them sound completely magnanimous here.
They wanted to take over, but they also wanted to Hey,
all these tribes and things like that. Look will help
you out too. How About how about some clothes, how
about a job? How about access to medicine, how about
how let's let's help let us help you too. You
(05:41):
are gonna work for us, like you're gonna work under us.
Let's be honest, but we're gonna help each other.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Here.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Your life will be better. And I don't want to
act as if they did this just out of the
kindness of their hearts. Of course there'd be some of that,
but really, for the Brits, and this is why I
think it was so brilliant, it just made more sense.
We want to take the place, we want to take
it over. Slaughtering everybody generally doesn't work. It's hard to do,
(06:10):
it's hard to maintain. As we've talked about before in
the show, you can't really kill your way out of
a problem. Usually that's difficult. But if you can somehow
make the people you're conquering make their day to day
lives better, then you have to deal with a lot
less rebellion, a lot fewer problems. They might even go
(06:31):
along with it, and in fact, Rhodesia eventually, we're not
quite there yet, Rhodesia kind of gets to that place
for a while. But right now we are post this
little tribal war. The English are mortified. The Europeans in
Zimbabwe are mortified, and they say, Okay, enough is enough.
Now it's ours. But what does it's ours mean? Well,
(06:54):
let's talk about what it was before the Europeans got there.
As you know, tribal lands. But what does that mean lands? Well,
a tribe, at least these tribes, the way they worked,
they would find some remote area, well it's all remote,
there's no civilization. They'd find an area that had things
they needed. And what does every tribe need? Every tribe
(07:16):
needs some way to eat. Maybe you're a hunting tribe,
maybe you do agriculture. Every tribe needs water. Let's find
a river, let's find something. Tribes are going to find
locations that work for them and that's where they're going
to build their village, their huts. That's how it's going
to work. And in many ways, the tribes were extremely isolated.
(07:40):
The villages were isolated from each other. These were people
who didn't build roads, they didn't have the wheel. You
as a young boy, I mentioned the two tribes yesterday.
I'll mention them again, the Shona and the Indobelly. And
by the way, the Indebelly go buy several names. I'm
just calling them into Belly, the Shona in the end
(08:02):
of Beelly. If you were a young boy, you were
born in this village, this indobelly village, there is a
reasonable chance you never left. Yeah, you would go out
and you would go hunt, or maybe you would go
to war or something like that. But you certainly didn't
bounce around the country. We modern day people, certainly modern
(08:22):
day Americans. Anyone, anyone living in a first world country
listening to me right now, you've been on a road trip,
How haven't you? Maybe you still live in your hometown,
but you know what a place one hundred miles from
you looks like, don't you? Of course you're almost probably
scoffing and laughing. Of course everyone does. Maybe you've even
(08:43):
been on a plane. That way of thinking is totally
foreign to these people who live in this area. What's
one of the very first things the Europeans start to do. Roads,
They start to build roads, they start to build train tracks.
Why well, they're moving goods and services and people to
(09:06):
and fro and now they're connecting villages that had previously
never been connected before. The African people in some time,
in some ways they're moving to and fro in ways
they've never moved before. And in some ways they're getting
(09:27):
run out of an area. If the English, if the
europe let's stop calling them English, because there were people
from all over the European world. If the Europeans wanted
that area, remember they decided they were in charge now
they said you need to leave. Well, they were also
integrating the local population, as I mentioned, they tried to
(09:50):
do that. They really believed in doing that. Let's find
a way to weave these people into our society. And
remember there weren't very many Europeans at the time, not
very many at all. They were way out numbered by
the tribesmen. So crime, for instance, you don't have this
(10:10):
large European police force. What do you do for cops?
Every area needs cops. Well, that can create problems if
you don't understand the area you're taking over. We'll get
to those problems in a moment. There's about to be
a rebellion, a first one. I should say before we
get to rebellion time, I want you to rebel against pain.
(10:33):
I want you to find. I want you to think
right now, you probably already think of it, thinking of it.
What is the thing on your body that hurts every day?
Maybe it's a head, Maybe your head hurts. Maybe it's
your neck, stiff neck, you turn and talk to someone,
you look like Batman. Your elbow old football injury, and
your finger. It hurts because it's inflamed. It's inflamed and
(10:59):
it needs help. Your body's already trying to fight the inflammation.
But it still hurts because your body doesn't have what
it needs, relief factors. What it needs. No more masking
it for a couple hours. Stop reaching for a pill
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(11:22):
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Speaker 1 (11:34):
More. Next Jesse Kelly Vaccian.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a fantastic, Fantastic Wednesday,
a hump Day, doing part two of our history of
the Rhodesian bush War. Remember you can email us your love,
your hate, your death threats. Jesse at Jesse Kellyshow dot Com.
The Europeans are starting to take over. They're starting to
build roads, they're starting to build trains, They're starting to
(12:03):
connect African villages that have never been connected before. They're
starting to run Africans out of certain places. Now, this
is where, this is why I keep bringing up the
two tribes, because these two tribes, the fact that there
are two tribes who hate each other, is always going
to come into play in this entire story, right up
(12:25):
to the horrible brutal ending of it. Not to give
the whole thing away. Remember before these guys even got here,
the Shona had been conquered by the end of Belly.
They were slaves under the end of Belly. Those kinds
of hard feelings don't go away easily. And the Europeans
(12:46):
just got there, they just arrived five minutes ago. It's
hard to understand everything about the culture you're conquering. It's
hard to understand old tribal rivalries and bad blood. It's
hard to understand the religious significance, different significance of different things,
(13:07):
for instance, And this is going to come into play
for virtually all these tribes. You know, what was really
a currency for them, almost a sacred level of currency,
a status symbol cattle. How many cattle do how many
cows do you have? You have a lot of cattle.
Oh you've only got three. Oh that sucks, Chris, I've
got five. Must suck to be so low class. I
(13:28):
mean you're laughing, But that's how that's how it worked.
If you were a king, part of that status would
be look at all of our cattle. Well, what are
cattle to the Europeans at this point in time? Just
what they're beef? It's beef or its milk. It's no
big deal. You raise them, you kill them, whatever. It's
just one of those things they didn't quite get. They
also needed a police force, and they're trying to integrate
(13:51):
the local tribes. But let me ask you something. Do
you ever have any bad blood in your family? Every
family hasn't, maybe even in your town a rival town arrival,
family arrival, this arrival that. I want you to imagine
this when it comes to Zimbabwe that we're talking about
(14:13):
right now. Let's say your people, your people had historically
kept the Shona as slaves and slavery. Remember was not
touchy feely, not at all ugly things for women children.
Let's just say, maybe your mother had been a slave
(14:37):
of the endobelly. You're now twenty five years old. Your
mother raised you with those stories of what the Indibelly
did to them. The Europeans knock on the door of
your hut and they're handing you a policeman's uniform because
(14:58):
now you you are going to help police some of
the indobelly areas and you have the power of law
enforcement behind your badge. You don't have some oath you
take or even believe in. You're a tribesman who's historically
been at war, and that tribe has historically abused your family,
(15:22):
and now you're about to get a weapon and two
or three of your cop buddies and you're about to
walk into their area. Do you think there would be
any temptation to abuse that kind of power. This happened often.
(15:42):
The Europeans were having and will always have such a
difficult time keeping the tribes separate from each other, understanding
the depth of hatred they have for each other. There
was African police au African on African police abuse all
(16:03):
over the place. Combine that with this. I already talked
about historically how these tribes work. They lived in their
little villages. Now they're being moved onto what are essentially reservations.
They're getting moved away from their historic homelands. They're not
thrilled about it. Now, let's add one more element to it.
(16:24):
And this is a long complicated affair. For the sake
of not having this be a ten episode thing, I'm
fast forwarding through some things. There gets to be a
plague with the cows. What do the Europeans do when
there's a cow plague? They do what any civilized society
would do, and they start to kill the cows. I
(16:47):
just got done explaining cows are sacred to these people,
a status symbol to these people. As a European, you
may have everyone's best interests at heart. When you send
a few guys onto somebody's land and shoot twenty of
his cows in the head, he is almost undoubtedly going
(17:09):
to interpret that act differently than you do. It's bad.
Rebellion breaks out. Rebellion breaks out. In fact, you should know,
I won't tell you the name of it, because it's
another detail. I'm already drowning you in details. But they
(17:31):
consider the Rhodesian Bush War to be the second version
of this rebellion. That's what they call it. This is
the first of these rebellions. The tribes rise up, they rebel.
They are not as technologically advanced they do, however, have
the numbers. It's slaughter, it's destruction. They're doing things like
(17:53):
one miner. He had worked with ten Africans on a
mind for a long time. He then found himself with
them crawling into the mind trying to beat him to
death one night. There are some stories I'll tell you
in a moment. Before we get to some of these stories,
let me get to this. Let me talk to you
about changing your cell phone service. And you know why
(18:18):
I'm gonna read you this. This is a direct quote
from Pure Talk. Because of your generosity through their Roundup
for Charity program, they've been able to donate over half
a million dollars to America's Warrior Partnership, who stands on
the front lines of preventing veterans suicide. Your patronage has
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(18:42):
in America flags to your fellow veterans. So from everyone
in the Pure Talk family, thank you for your trust
and God bless America. I read that verbatim. That's what
Pure Talk wanted me to tell you. Has At and
T ever told you that T Mobile save some money,
(19:03):
keep your phone, keep your number, or get a new
When they have those two switch to the company that
does stuff like that. Dial pound two five zero and
say Jesse Kelly Pound two five zero, Say Jesse Kelly, We'll.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Be back the Jesse Kelly Show.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It is the Jesse Kelly Show on a wonderful Wednesday,
talking about the land down under Africa tonight as we go.
Quit what, Chris, I'm not a geologist, all right, I
don't know everything. All right. Back to our history of
the Rhodesian Bush War. The Europeans had set up the trains,
they'd set up the villages. The tribes were hating each other.
(19:46):
The tribes were not liking this European rule, and they
broke out in rebellion. Now, this is nothing like the
rebellion that will happen during the Rhodesian Bush War. This
is completely disorganized. There aren't a the central leaders. And
remember the two tribes hate each other as much as
they hate the Europeans. So what does this rebellion look like?
(20:09):
It sounds horrifying, but it's essentially small areas where panic
gets inflamed, anger gets inflamed, and it's oftentimes led by
local religious leaders, local tribal religious leaders, you know, all
these weird tribal false religions. Local religious leaders would get
(20:33):
their local area to rise up against the white invaders,
the European invaders. I told you briefly about that story
of the miner. Well you know how most of that
story went. He walked out of his house to find
ten Africans who he had worked with on the mine,
not slaves or something like that, you know, working with
(20:53):
them every day lunch wages. That there were co workers
with war clubs. This animal manages to wrestle one of
the war clubs from him. They start beating him. He
starts swinging back and beating them. He makes his way
all the way into the mind shaft where he rolls
down into the mind shaft. And then he has more
(21:15):
miners in the mind shaft who he's worked with, who
he thinks will come to his aid, and they start
beating him too. He starts fighting them off. He's fighting
his way through the mines. These things happen. In another incident,
two guys are sitting there, there are women and children
hidden behind them, and the tribesmen have surrounded the mine
(21:40):
and they are essentially getting ready to kill everyone in it.
The two dudes make a break for it. What are
they making a break for. They're going for the telegraph
line so they can telegraph for help so the women
and children won't die. They book it, one of them,
actually both of them end up making it the entire
(22:00):
way to the telegraph hut. One holds the door closed
from the angry tribesmen behind him, while the other gets
on the telegraph machine and telegraphs the message out. Eventually,
the door is kicked down and both men die with
African spears sticking out from all over their bodies. This
(22:22):
is taking place all across Zimbabwe at this time, but
as I said, it is not unified. It is poorly led.
And eventually the Europeans raise for themselves, or that they
should say, they get back their army. It's a long
story I won't go into. Most of their fighting men
had gone to fight somewhere else and they'd been captured.
(22:44):
They get their fighting men, and their fighting men are
organized and they are well led, and they start to
put this rebellion down. They put it down to such effect.
The rebels are now starving. The rebels are hiding in
k and the Europeans are dynamiting rebels out of caves,
(23:05):
dynamiting the entrance, starving them. And there's an or horrible, horrible,
ugly affair. Cecil Rhodes, the guy who started all this,
he brings all the tribal leaders together finally after a
very vicious little war, and he negotiates a peace because
the tribes are starving. They're starving, they're done. Only now,
(23:31):
this is the problem with rebellion. When you lose one.
If you lose one, you are always going to end
up worse off than you were before. If you're going
to rebel, you better win. The whole history of the
world proves this to be the case. It's almost weird
(23:51):
when you look back and you wonder why so many
people rebelled. We're going to rebel against Babylon. Oh no,
we're all skinned alive. It just doesn't it doesn't work.
Now they have no more control. And now after the
negotiated peace, now Britain is no longer doing that. Well,
(24:12):
it's not really our thing, it's kind of a private
enterprise thing. Nope, Now this is the nineteen twenties. Now
Britain says no, no, no, no, no, it's our country now. Now.
They even gave it a name, South Rhodesia. By the way,
in case you're wondering, Yes, that name comes from the
(24:34):
name Cecil Roads. And no he didn't name it. In fact,
he didn't even like the name, which is weird. I've
always wanted a country named after me. That is not
what he preferred at all, but Rhodesia. Only at this
point in time it's named South Rhodesia. Let's fast forward
just a little bit. They are locking in their control
(24:55):
of the area. They're building whole cities now, they're trying
to modernize this country as possible in a long comes
World War two. This part is going to be important
for our story as we move along. I already told
you the kind of people last night, the kind of
Europeans who came here. These were not convicts who just
(25:16):
got out. These were not idiot's welfare recipients. In many ways,
it was the cream of the crop for Europeans and
their children. They were tough as nails as well, not
these effeminate, you know, pinky out people. Tough as nails
and they also had, because there were so few of
them and a country that was so big, with so
(25:37):
many bigger tribes, mandatory military service for all the males
if you were a male in Rhodesia, by the way,
and females females were the females didn't have man mandatory
military service. Let me clarify, but the females were tough.
The males were tough. We're not talking about sipping tea.
These were farmers and miners and people who worked hard.
(25:59):
And even the ones who were more wealthy, you hunted
all the time, the elements, sleeping out under the elements.
They were already a people familiar with the outdoors, familiar
with firearms. And then when you add in mandatory military service,
there may not have been many of them. At about
the height of Rhodesia's army's power, there was only about
(26:20):
twenty thousand. That's a tiny army. They were all tough
as nails, tough as freaking nails, because look, you grew
up in Africa shooting lions, that's what you did. They
were a tough people. World War two comes along and
Britain calls, hey, Rhodesia, we need some guys now I
(26:43):
need to pause here, and I'm going to have to
make this disclaimer many times as we continue to tell
this tale. It can be easy to think about this
story as white versus black. I'm sure you've done it
in your mind several times, because the Europeans were white
and the tribesmen were black. And in some ways that
(27:04):
may be accurate. But when I said they were trying
to integrate the Africans, they were trying to integrate the Africans.
That Rhodesian army I just mentioned, at the height of
its power, like half of it was black. They're elite troops,
like half of them were black. The Rhodesians didn't see
(27:24):
this as a white versus black thing at all. The
loser Kamis worldwide, it's very similar to the Commis we
have today. That's how they sold it worldwide. Look at
these Nazis oppressing the black people. That is not how
it was. They were working in many ways hand in hand.
(27:46):
That's exactly right, Chris. They used good old fashioned race
communism to sell this locally and internationally. When things kicked off,
the Rhodesian military was not just white Europeans. The Africans
were getting training, getting everything again, integrating them in Britain
fighting World War II needed men, They said, Rhodesia, can
(28:07):
you help Rhodesia full of a bunch of tough people,
said absolutely, tell us where you need us. So many
Rhodesian men, black and white, stepped up to fight. The
Brits got concerned that there would be no men to
go back to Rhodesia if they all died, so they
spread the units out all across the everywhere Britain was fighting.
(28:29):
They wouldn't let the Rhodesians go all to one area
because they'd worry about it. Hey send fifty here, sent
one hundred there, and they went and fought like lions
for Britain and World War two. Their service is incredible.
But something else, I mean, World War two was awful,
but the result of it was actually wonderful in some
(28:49):
ways for what is now Rhodesia. I'll explain in a moment.
Before I get to that, let's talk about finding someone
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(29:11):
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(29:34):
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(29:55):
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Jesse Kelly returns.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Next it is the Jesse Kelly Show on a magnificent Monday.
I swear if you're suffering, we'll be back to politics
in ten minutes. But we're doing part two of the
Rhodesian bush War.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
We just finished the rebellion. The Europeans put down the rebellion.
Britton essentially decided, okay, that's enough of all this playing games.
Now it's a country. Now, it's our country. In fact,
we're slapping a name on it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's called South Rhodesia. And well, the way it works is,
of course, World War two breaks out. The Rhodesians, as
I mentioned, black and white military men went off and
fought valiantly for the Brits. That will end up mattering
later on. But something else happens, And this is the
(30:47):
ugly part of life, the ironic, I guess I should
should say part of life. In a lot of ways.
War can be good for economies. Certainly, if you are
a country that produces stuff, war can be very good
for you. Why are the Europeans in Rhodesia to begin with?
(31:09):
It's rich with resources, The land is wonderful for agriculture.
There are things to mine there. And guess which empire
needs stuff right about now? Well the Allies, well all
of them, but the Allies need it. The economy starts booming, booming,
(31:32):
there are huge checks coming into Rhodesia because the Allies
needs stuff. Well, this is Africa, we already mentioned. It's
a rough place. It's been a rough place, just has
not become a modern continent. Ever, what do you think
(31:53):
happens when the Rhodesian economy starts booming? The word goes out,
The word goes out to all the other countries around
there who may be struggling. There's always a famine, always
a war, always a plague, and more Africans start pouring
into Rhodesia looking for work, looking for an opportunity, and
(32:17):
they find them. But as usually happens, the war doesn't
last forever. And after the war is over, Let's say
let's say it's the year nineteen forty one in your Rhodesia,
just for the sake of argument, and your economy starts booming.
(32:37):
Everyone knows it, Everyone in Africa knows it. And so
let's just say you get a million, two million Africans
from other countries coming in to take advantage of the
opportunity to feed their families, clothed themselves, you know, all
those things. But then nineteen forty five rolls around in
bip war over. Well, there's still a market obviously, crops
(33:00):
and chrome and the other things they mind, but not
near the market it once was. Well, now all those
people have already come in, Now they've already brought jobs in.
Now there's not as much economic opportunity to go around,
yet the people are still there. This creates a situation
(33:24):
that from the outside looking in looks terrible. The situation
being this, you have these extremely wealthy, modern looking mostly white,
although there were plenty of black people. There are extremely modern,
wealthy looking towns that would have looked like any town
(33:44):
in America, any city in Europe popping up. Only on
the outskirts there are extremely run down, poor, all black
shanty towns that start popping up. The reason this is
so disastrous is post World War Two there was a
(34:07):
thing that was happening globally. It wasn't just to Britain.
After World War Two, countries that had empires overseas started
to give them up. Sometimes they fought hard for them.
You know that. This was the French in Vietnam. They
eventually lost that, but they fought hard trying to keep it.
(34:29):
Some countries just flat out walked away from it. But
no matter what, there is a macro movement happening on
planet Earth post World War two. And that movement was, hey,
you super powerful empires with a colony here and a
colony there. In Britain's in India, and the French are
(34:51):
in Vietnam, and everyone's in Africa. It said, hey, you
know what, no more, no more, It's time to walk
away from your overseas empire. And I'm going to put
this in quotes because I don't necessarily believe in this,
but the quote decolonization movement has begun. Now, well, how
(35:15):
do you think Rhodesia looks to the rest of the
world when everyone else is giving up their overseas territories
and now you look at this insanely wealthy, prosperous African country.
These other African countries, for the most part, they're sucking
it up. They're doing terribly well. Rhodesia. Certainly the Rhodesians
(35:39):
are the Europeans in Rhodesia. Rhodesia they're thriving. And the
African peoples in Rhodesia they're on reservations, just like our
Indian reservations. They're on reservations where the Europeans put them,
or they're in shanty towns. And there's another part of
it that just looked bad. And this is actually how
(36:01):
we're going to open our show tomorrow. So let me
ask a question. Who should get to vote in any society?
Who deserves a say in the government of any society.
I think you would probably agree with me that shouldn't
(36:26):
be everybody right, you don't want twelve year olds to vote.
Of course, if there's some serial killer getting ready to
be executed tomorrow, do you want his vote canceled out?
He's canceling out your vote for president tomorrow? No, okay?
So will at least agree on that it shouldn't be everybody, okay?
So that means there should be limits? What limits? How
(36:53):
do you form a nation, a good country, if that's
what you want to be, a good prospers country, a
country considered to be free, while also putting limits on
who has a say in the government. In Rhodesia, the
Africans did not have a say in the government. No
(37:18):
say none, And that's about to be a problem. We'll
have to continue that tomorrow. Before we do that, let's
do some more politics, shall we. Let's talk about some
AI impeachments, influence operations, emails more Next
Host
Jesse Kelly
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